The Pen Addict 657/transcript

• From Relay, this is The Pen Addict, episode number 657. Today's show is brought to you by Enigma Stationery and Squarespace. My name is Brad Dowdy, and today I'm joined by Rob Knight. How's it going, Rob? Hi, I'm here. It's Sunday night. I'm very excited. Yeah, how does it feel to be on a pen podcast? Well, given that about, what, six weeks ago, I didn't really have any pens or had written anything. So this is really taking a turn quite quickly. Yes, yes. So just a little background for everyone. I've known Rob. How long have we known each other? Just kind of online for two or three years. We, you know, got to meet a person at the Relay 10 event, you know, in London last year. So we've always just kind of talked online. We run in the same circles online. We've always gotten on, like, super well. We like a lot of the same things and talk about a lot of the same stuff. Yeah. So just recently, I had noticed Rob starting to share thoughts on pens. And I'm like, huh, this is new. It was like, you know what, I'm going to have an opportunity here to talk to some different people about pens. And I thought, why not get on, really, a pure beginner? Is that how you would classify yourself, just from a pen perspective? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think it's quite funny because I've explicitly said on my podcast and in multiple places, I don't listen to this podcast because I cannot be trusted to not spend lots and lots of money. That has now changed. I don't know. I am listening.
• But that's completely fair. Some people will say, I do not listen to your podcast because I value my wallet or my bank account. And I'm like, I get it. Like, I totally get it. But somehow we got our hooks into you. So that brings me to kind of the first point I want to bring up before we really get started today. I have some news we're going to bring up and then we're going to talk about, you know, your stationary journey so far. But really, I need to give a shout out to the Ruminate podcast. And so this is a podcast that you and John Voorhees, would John say he's from Mac Stories? Where would John say he's from? John of Mac Stories. John Voorhees of Mac Stories. Of Mac Stories. So I think a lot of listeners we have here will know who John is and know who you are from Ruminate and your other endeavors. And I wanted to talk about something y'all said in episode 202 of the Ruminate podcast where y'all threatened me.
• You and John threatened to come after me personally in the Pen Addict podcast thinking, you know, with your newfound love for stationary that you are now the number one pen podcast in the universe. And I think next time I see you and John in person, I think we're going to have to maybe take it outside and settle this. Yeah, that was, I feel like if I'd known I was going to be here, I'm going to be, you know, directly attacked. That was, it's easy to be smart when you're on your own podcast. And then when you're faced with the consequences, that's a different thing. Yeah, so it's fun that we get to have fun on a podcast, right? Like we all need these things these days and it's just great to hear, you know, John actually being kind of apoplectic about your whole pen thing. Like John's been, I've known John for God, well over a decade. And he's been around some of our pen stuff, like some of the live shows and stuff. And he's like, you know, always cool, but it's never been his thing. So I love listening to you, like talking about, which we're going to, some of the things we're going to talk about later and just going, oh yeah, that's cool, Rob. I think if there's anything that defines Ruminate, it's mine and John's ability to just pick up random hobbies and unusual things. And then we bring them to the show.
• You know, pens is only one of many that has happened over the last sort of eight, nine years. Yeah. But the pen one, as you say, John, it's not his thing. Yeah. And up until a few weeks ago, it wasn't my thing either. Yeah, yeah. So we're going to get into all that. Before we do, as we do here, I need to keep up a little bit with the stationary news because, you know, unlike the, or I guess I should say like the tech world, we have big breaking news and we have controversy in the stationary world, you know, which I think a lot of people would find hilarious. And I do too. So I don't take this stuff too seriously. So I find all the little things hilarious.

Lamy's new ink releases and their significance

• Like Lamy, who we have brought up on the last episode with the new AL Star fountain pen that they brought up, the new colors were coming out. Lamy has decided to release two new inks, Lamy Sepia and Lamy Petrol. And let me explain, Rob, why this is important or important is the wrong word or interesting is probably a better word. Lamy, as a brand, has recently had a habit of re-releasing popular products from the past, except not in the exact same format, but calling them the same thing. So Lamy made this last year, or actually like in 2016, Lamy made an ink called Dark Lilac. Everyone loved Dark Lilac. Beautiful purple. Wonderful thing. It was a limited edition. It sold out and it was gone. All of a sudden last year, Lamy goes, hey, look, Dark Lilac. We're going to introduce this back in the lineup. And everyone's like, yay, Dark Lilac's back. And it's not the same ink.
• So that was last year's controversy. This year, Petrol is the ink that they've redone. Much less of a controversy this year because it wasn't extremely popular the first time. So I don't know what this would relate to any industry that you're in. But I don't know if companies or any tech companies or app companies are recreating something. It's like some certain app existed in one form and they filed it away and then they just brought it back and charged you more. And it's doing something completely different, but it's the same name. So it's a weird thing that Lamy has chosen to do. So I guess my question. Yeah, go ahead. I'm glad you explained that because, you know, you're saying, oh, it's not that big a deal. There's Petrol one. The comments on Instagram would suggest otherwise. These people are angry about Petrol. So last year, the Dark Lilac controversy made it into the New York Times.
• Wow. It was that intense. So in like a bunch of like pen people got interviewed to speak about why there was this uproar. So, yeah, I mean, people, you know, it's just like any hobby, right? People love their thing, right? Whether it's, you know, video games or Pokemon. Like if someone has been like used to and it's lived with like a brand or a product and then they do something weird or something changes or something, you know, like last year, everyone just felt it was like just very untowards of Lamy to kind of make this change with Dark Lilac. Like, you know, people just kind of exploded. But yeah, there's a lot of commentary around the Petrol. This one's not going to, I just, it's just not going to land as big as the Dark Lilac because it wasn't as popular. And the color that Petrol is, is a more common fountain pen ink color anyway. So a lot of people have similar colors. So let me ask you this. Do you use any fountain pens at all?
• I do, actually. I have been, so on your recommendation, I bought a couple of the, what are they called? The Preppy? The Platinum Preppy? Oh, sure. Is that it? Absolutely. So I have the pink, the lilac, and the yellow. Heck yes.

Weekly pen rotation and bullet journaling habits

• And I've been, so what I've been doing to get through my pens, which I know we're going to get through, get to a bit later, but each week I'm just picking a different pen to use in my bullet journal. Yep. So this week I've been using the pink Platinum Preppy, which I've been quite enjoying. The yellow, it's not, the yellow's not very good. That's rough. I'm impressed with the yellow. Yep, fair. And then I also have a Lamy, is it All Star? AL Star? I don't know how to say it. You fit in perfectly here. I think I say it different every time, but I say AL Star for aluminum, and then I'll get yelled at that, like, no, it's All Star. And I'm like, I'll say, fine, it's All Star. So I say All Star now. Sure. So I bought the Fiery edition one. Yes. Just because it's a beautiful color. Yep.
• And I'm waiting to see what special editions they do in the Safari this year before I buy any more. Yep. Because I'm very curious about that, which leads us on to the next bit of sort of news, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. See, y'all may not know this, but Rob is a professional podcaster. How long have you been podcasting? Just, you know, even for fun. Yeah. I mean, nearly 10 years. It'll be 10 years in August this year. So that's a long, old time. Yeah. Long, long time. So yeah, you threw it right into my next topic here. So the All Star is confirmed based on... So I talked with Eric Gamma of Amarillo Stationery last week, and we got leaked pictures of the new All Star colors. And they're beautiful. They're gorgeous. I love them. I'm not the hugest All Star fan per se. I'm a Safari person, like if I'm choosing one of the Lamy's.
• But these are knockouts. And now they're starting to get product listed with the correct colors that we were discussing. So the denim and the aubergine, which, you know, we referenced last week, except it was kind of, you know, an oopsie. Images got released from someone, you know, getting ahead of the release date and making the webpage live. And then the pictures existed, and then it immediately got taken down. But yeah, confirmed. They're great. But I know at least denim is going to be in ballpoint, rollerball, and mechanical pencil. So I've gotten some images of the full lineup of those. I'm not sure if the aubergine is or not. I'd have to go back and double check. But yeah, so you have the fiery All Star. Have you ever used the Safari, which is the plastic barrel version? Or are you just kind of wanting to wait and see, like, what the Safari is like? Or have you actually used one in the past?
• No, I mean, I think to my knowledge, when I bought the Fiery, which was like maybe a week or two ago, maybe two weeks ago, that might be the first time I've ever used a fountain pen in my life. Okay, we're going to talk about this for sure. So, but no, I've not tried a Safari. Okay.
• So, like I say, I mostly went for the Fiery just because I really liked the color. And then I'm sort of holding out to see where the news settles before I order anything else. Yeah, good call. So, we have a whole bit on here that's been running for years, you know, Team Safari versus Team All Star. And I'm just hardcore in the Team Safari camp every year, in and out. And this year, I've already, like, given up the ghost that these All Stars are just going to be too good to beat whatever the Safaris come out. But I will say, the one All Star I own, guess what? It's fiery. Yeah. It's a really good color. So, yeah, that's a good choice. Last little bit of news I wanted to talk about this week is very, very low-key. But this is a brand who has some very interesting products, some products I really enjoy. And then there's some products that I think are, like, not really worth it and very weird. So, but I got sent this a lot. And people were wondering because they know I like Karen Dash. They have a new black edition, which for them is shockingly a bit of an outlier. Usually, a company, like, when they're starting, like, getting into pens, you know, the black pen is a pretty early or a pretty common or just, like, a regular product lineup product. Well, Karen Dash did, like, a whole blacked-out lineup, even on the Ecuador, which is the higher-end ballpoint pen with, like, a metal barrel and used, like, some engravings. And the fountain pen, they did a black metal grip section. So, it's funny trying to wrap my head around this because I have a picture of what Karen Dash is as a brand to me. And I'm a fan of the 849, which is their popular ballpoint pen, and the Fix Pencil, which is a 2-millimeter clutch pencil. So, instead of, like, your traditional mechanical pencils, which we're going to talk about later for you, it's got the wider lead. It's more of, like, a sketching pencil. So, have you ever run across Karen Dash or know anything about the brand or use anything by chance?

Discovery of a new pen and pencil brand

• No. This, when you sent over the show notes, this is the first time I've heard of this brand at all. Yeah. And also, I immediately want this pen and pencil. The pen and pencil set is sweet. So, this is, this, gosh, would they call, yeah, I think they would call themselves a luxury brand, right? So, this may not be your Mont Blanc level, although they would probably think they're there. But, like, this is, this level of pen is not something that Mont Blanc does. So, like, their ballpoints, Karen Dash's ballpoints, the 849 is the standard ballpoint. It's, like, 40 bucks, 45 bucks. That's a lot of money, like, for a ballpoint. Like, for someone who doesn't know, right, that they're, someone that's not into this stuff, they'll look at that and go, wow, that's really expensive. And they're not wrong. So, they have this, like, little premium price point going versus comparable brands. But they've been around for over 100 years. And they have a style and they have a fan base that's pretty rock solid, including myself. I use the, like I said, some of the lower end stuff, the 849s and fixed pencils, which they do have a fixed pencil in this category. So, yeah, like, I'm tempted, like, this is one, you know, as we, we all in the, in the stationary world, like, are favorites. And sometimes we get in that collect them all mentality, which I have definitely been out of for a while. But this, I'm kind of tempted to, like, oh, do I need another fixed pencil? Do I need another 849? Because this is for all the colors and wild stuff that Karen Dash does that I love. This is kind of compelling to me. So, I kind of dig them. Yeah. Well, I did just have a little look at the 849 while you were talking. And they do a fluorescent pink one. So, I might be in trouble here. Yeah. Because I'm going to have to buy it because it's gorgeous. Not only, yeah, I was going to say, not only do they do it, they do it extremely well. Like, which is why I like them so much. So, I even have my own Pen Addict 849 in the shop that's orange, right? Just because I like that pen that much. Yeah. Even though it's kind of an expensive pen for, you know, again, like, if you're buying a Uniball Jetstream, you can get probably a better riding Uniball Jetstream for $3. Or the Karen Dash, you know, 849 for anywhere between, like, 22 to, I don't know, depending on, they do all kinds of limited editions. Like, the black one, I think, is around $45. So, yeah, they're pretty neat. I enjoy them. They're smaller pens. So, we'll get into, like, some of the things you like and dislike later. You know, size of a pen for someone new and figuring this thing out is important, right? You may like smaller pens. You may like larger pens. It just depends. But you know where you can get pens, Rob? You can get them at Enigma Stationery. So, shout out to Enigma Stationery for sponsoring the Pen Addict this week. Enigma Stationery offers unique items made from in-house designs along with top brands and hard-to-find imports.
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• Yeah, when I saw this in the show notes, I got a little bit flustered. I was like, oh, God, somebody's asking me the question.
• I've had to do it once in my lifetime, so it is now your turn. Even though it's not officially from Myke, it doesn't count. So, this is just a practice run. Yeah, I mean, that's fine. Myke's going to listen to this and, you know, we'll see how we do.
• He can grade us later. Yeah, so I had to think about this. And I think I just want to be known for, like, being a maker of fun web things. You know, I have a day job as a developer. You know, that's whatever. That's my day job. But in my spare time, I want to just try and make, like, fun, interesting things that people can use. So, you know, there's various, like, soundboards that I've made and, you know, weird sort of in-jokes from podcasts that, you know, are only funny for about a week. You know, but they sit there. And that's fine. They can sit there forever and people can stumble across them years later and not understand what the joke is. Yeah, like, literally right up my alley. Like, yes, we have our fun little jokes and I would like to make stuff. So, I do need to check out. You have one product that you work on. I don't know if product's the right word, but you can tell me. Echo Feed. That I think is very interesting in our current social media landscape. Can you give us the quick Echo Feed pitch? And, like, you know, I didn't prep Rob for this, but I think it's an interesting concept given, like, where I hang out on the internet these days, which is, like, you know, more annoying by the day. So, finding fun places to hang out. Rob helps you put stuff there. Yeah, so it's, I mean, the tagline I'm using right now is send your posts all over the web. So, it's a cross-poster of sorts, but it's automated. So, this isn't like, this isn't the kind of thing where you go, oh, I'm just going to post this and then send it to a bunch of places. This is, you've got a blog, like the Panadic website. You have an RSS feed, and if you so wanted, you could, you know, you use that RSS feed and you could send those posts to Mastodon, Blue Sky, post it in a Discord.
• There's, like, webhooks. You can, you know, do your own integration type stuff. And it mostly came about from a problem that I had, where I wanted to, there was specific things where, like, when I tag a new album that I like, or a new track that I found or something, that was the initial problem I had. I wanted to make sure that I was posting those in the same format all the time. And I could have done that manually, but I'm, you know, the chances are I'm going to mess that up or I'm going to, you know, get the links wrong and stuff like that. So, this all started as a script that I was just running on a server, and then it turned into what it is now, which is, you know, an actual service that people use. And I'm just looking at the homepage, 212,000 posts have been sent through it, which is kind of amazing. Yeah, that's awesome. So, I'm hoping to add to that number next week. Like, I'm going to get in gear, and I keep, I just hasn't made, matriculated to the top of my task list. But I don't have, like, automated posting from my RSS feed to Pen Addict, which I normally have, you know, sent them to other places in the past. And I'm just kind of not done that, and I've done some things manually, and I'm, like, hit or miss. And, like, it's fun for people, hopefully, to hear this stuff, because, like, this is how, like, cool people making cool stuff is, like, what we like to do. Whether it's stationary, or apps, or, you know, art, or music, or anything like that. And getting to share, like, people solving problems for themselves, and then seeing if other people like it. Like, I just think that's, like, my whole thing, and I love that. So, yeah, definitely check that out. I'll have links in the show notes for everyone to go check out. Anything else you want to shout out real quick before we talk about pens? No, I mean, you've already mentioned Ruminate. Echo feed is, you know, products. I think it's probably the right word. Okay. But that's my main thing that I work on in my spare time. So, yeah, no, we can get into it. How? Why? Like, what happened all of a sudden that you found yourself shopping for pens? Like, did you have any care in the world when you were younger in school about pens or stationary?
• Do you know? No, not really. And it was, this was a footnote in one of my blog posts. But when I was at school, if you had a Parker pen, and it didn't matter which Parker pen it was. It would just, if it was a pen made by Parker, that was, like, the coolest pen you could possibly own. Mm-hmm. I did not own one. Mm-hmm. I still have no idea. I assume they were not cheap, or at least they weren't cheap enough that my parents were willing to buy me one. Because I'm pretty sure I would have asked for one, because everybody else had them. But I've never really, it's never really been something that I've actively done. It's not that I don't love stationary. Like, my wife loves stationary, and we walk around the shop, so we look at notebooks and pens and all these things. But I never bought anything, because I was like, I don't really have a use for these things. You know, as a developer, I'm sat in front of a computer for eight hours a day. So it never really felt like there was a reason for me to buy a notebook or a nice pen or whatever it was. And then when my second daughter was born, which was the end of December, I was sort of having this, at least after the first sort of week or two, when you just don't know what's going on. And I was having this moment where I was like, I'm just forgetting things, like really basic things. Like, you know, I've tried all manner of task managers and different ways to track tasks. And I thought, I need something different. And I'd heard of bullet journaling before, and I thought, okay, let's just go watch whatever the intro video is, you know, on the homepage, and let's see what I think.
• And it seemed like something I could probably do.
• So I went ahead and I just ordered a notebook that I found on Amazon that seemed reasonable. And it sort of went from there. Yeah. So you were basically trying to solve a problem, right? Like, oh, I'm forgetting these things. And I'm guessing, like, there is, you know, a huge crossover between, like, the digital and analog spaces. But there's still, you know, some people have, you know, lean more digital and less analog. Some lean, you know, 50-50 some, you know. Me, I'm probably, I don't know, I'm probably more in the 50-50 camp, to be honest, even though, you know, I write about pens for a living. Like, I have to do a lot of my work digitally.
• But you were doing pretty much no analog and then looking for a way to kind of track or write things down in some kind of meaningful way. Do you know what it was just from the bullet journal? Or was it just simply name recognition and, hey, maybe I can try this out to see would it work? How did you find that in the first place?
• Yeah. I can't recall. I mean, I know you guys have had writer Carol on a couple of times, right? I think.
• You know, so I'm sure that through you guys on this podcast and probably just various other places, I've heard the name. And that was the one that jumped out at me. Like, since then, I have heard of, you know, other systems and things like that. But this is the one that seems to work pretty well for me, or at least it is at the moment. But, yeah, let's go ahead and get into the bullet journal a little bit. So, listening to Ruminate and reading, like, some of your posts, you went, like, the learning route from the jump. You know, trying to figure out what the bullet journal is and how to make it work for you. You know, reading the website, buying the book. What have you found that's worked for you so far? I guess you're probably only a few weeks into, like, doing this, right? So there's still some figuring out going on. But, like, was there something that clicked immediately?
• Yeah. So I think I'm maybe – so I think I started middle of January. So I'm a couple of months in now.

Personal approach to bullet journaling

• And there's definitely – there is a part of the bullet journaling, you know, capital B, capital J, that is not for me. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of self-reflection and writing goals, that kind of thing. That's not really what I'm using it for.
• I'm using – it is purely for me, it is the daily logging. So just writing everything down.
• You know, whatever it is, tasks, things that have happened, that kind of thing. And I think what has worked for me – and I don't remember, I feel like I saw somebody post about this. Maybe it was on Mastodon. But with a digital to-do app, whether it's reminders or whatever, it's far too easy to just keep dumping tasks into it.
• You know, before you know it, you've got 100 tasks for this one project. And you're never really reviewing it. Like, it's just – you've just got all these tasks. And it's like, okay, well, they all need to get done. But one of the parts of, you know, physically actually writing it down on paper is, one, you think about it more. But two, when you're migrating it week to week, which is sort of part of bullet journaling, I can think about, actually, do I really need this? Or can I just, you know, cancel this task? It's just not that important. And I think that is where I'm getting most of the value. Being able to buy pens and notebooks is just a bonus. Because it's like finally an excuse to buy these things that I've wanted to try. And I have a reason to have notebooks around. You know, whether that's for a bullet journal or, you know, oh, I've bought fountain pens. Well, maybe I should practice my handwriting because it's terrible.
• Rob, I hate to say you're one of us. It's like this is turned like really, really quickly. I love it. I love it. Your point that you made, two points actually, which I think are important about one bullet journey and specifically is that I do think there is a lot of value in starting exactly how they suggest to lay everything out. Because it's not overly complicated, right? You have to do a little bit of layout, a little bit of work, you know, putting down dates, kind of segmenting things out.
• But it's nothing like what Myke and I call hashtag Bujo, you know, that you see on Instagram. Like that's a different thing, right? Like all the fancy spreads and the artwork. Oh, yeah. That's cool. That comes later. But like we're talking about like tasks and getting things done and things like that. So the actual core bullet journal method, like you start with that and then, you know, maybe like you have found out maybe not all of it works for you. Like I'm the same as you, like the daily reflection stuff I never got along with. So I've tried like I've tried like by the book bullet journaling a couple of times and figured out, you know, it doesn't work for me overall. And that's good. Like that's part of the process. So you start by the book, if you will, and then you figure out like you're saying what works for you and then go, oh, I've maybe unlocked this missing piece, which I think is the most important piece. And you said it, which is one of my big failings is the review piece.
• I think that's kind of everything, to be honest. I think that's like the most important takeaway or the most useful takeaway, I should say, is daily review or some type of however your review is built in weekly, daily, whatever. If you're not doing that, like I think you're missing like a big benefit of a system like a bullet journal. Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, the, the review quote unquote stage previously was there's too many things in this, in this list. Yeah. I would like, I just switched to do managers or like you just delete it all and start again. And they're like, that's not a review. That's just having a meltdown. Like that's, it's not helpful to anybody.
• Yeah. And that's how, so the way I would do it is I would literally, there would be so much stuff. It's just like your eyes glaze over. And then I would actually forget like the most important thing that was buried in this list. And then I would just end my day or whatever. And then, you know, tomorrow happens. I'm like, oh no, I owed somebody this thing. It's like, whoops. So yeah, like the review is key.
• Do you balance or do you have some type of a divide? Like what's digital, what's analog, right? So, you know, like for me projects, you know, a lot of my projects start on paper, but like sometimes I'll end up having to manage them digitally, right? Like I need to, to collect them all in the same area and have some, you know, dates and reminders attached. Do you have like a pretty solid analog and digital divide?
• Yeah. So, I mean, the, the first thing that I've kept digital is shared reminders with my wife because, you know, I can't, if we have a reminder, whatever that might be, you know, it's something with the kids or the cat or something to do with the house. Like there's no way she's not going to come and review my journal just to see if there's things that she needs to do. So that has to stay digital and that's fine. Cause we only have a handful of things, you know, maybe every couple of days or something, but the project based stuff, I'm, I am struggling a little bit with that. So I have, as we mentioned, Echo Feed is my main sort of big, big project, but I also have my website, which is, you know, it's a beast of its own making. Um, there's a lot of things I want to do with that. And I have little side projects and things like that. I, I haven't quite worked out where I need to be putting those. Like right now, I just have a page in my journal where I'm moving things that are about those specific products when, when they come up. Um, but I, I think I may need to move those back to digital at some point, but I don't want to fall into the same trap that I was trying to solve in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's always a balance. I've like, I think for, I'm gonna say about three years, I'd say just give or take, I've been really locked in with my system. Like I have not changed, like what's digital, what's analog, how things work. Um, and actually I have no desire to change. I haven't found like a real compelling need to do anything differently. But you know, the short version of mine is if I need, like, if I have a date and a time where I owe somebody something, I better get an alarm for that because I'm going to forget it. Right. So like a task or like I used to do this right. Um, for most of mine and I'll just set a reminder this date, this time, you know, otherwise like a lot of stuff is like handwritten for me in a, in a plotter. Don't, don't look up plotter, Rob. Do not go to the plotter website. Luckily for you, they don't ship internationally right now. So you're safe for now. Uh, don't look at that. Don't look at that. Um, but yeah, like the way I lay out, um, you know, my weeks and time blocks and all that stuff. I do that. Most of that stuff on paper. So, um, it's been good. Have you discovered like you have put more onto the page than you thought you might than other than the, just like tasks and stuff has, is this, has this bullet journaling or just stationary in general, like compelled you to like write other things or use other things. We're going to talk about pins and all that stuff in a minute, but just as a general, like capturing concept, has that changed at all for you? Uh, yeah, it has. Um, I mean, a perfect example is this, you know, you, you've invited me on your show, you've sent me the show notes and usually what I would have done is just opened an obsidian note or maybe Apple notes. But instead what I did was sat at the table earlier today and I just wrote out things that I wanted to mention. Um, you know, that, that's obviously just one example, but, um, I have a couple of little notepads now, like little memo pads that I've been using for, um, you know, I might write down a little shopping list that I go out and cause I tend to be running a lot of errands recently, two kids and all that. Um, so yeah, I, I, I'm thinking I might get a notebook to practice my handwriting. Um, so the interesting thing is I cannot write lowercase. Okay. At all. Okay. Um, I worked in a warehouse at about 18 or so for about three years and all I ever wrote down was part numbers. So I completely lost the, I completely lost the ability to write in lowercase. Okay. And it's not really affecting my life right now, but at some point my children are going to come home and have to practice their handwriting. Yep. Um, and I'm not going to be able to help them. Yeah. Uh, so I need to, you know, find that that skill must exist in my brain somewhere. Absolutely. I'm sure I can bring it back. Yes. And it will take you less time than you think, but it will take dedicated practice. Like you can absolutely fix this or bring it back or change it. And this is, this goes for anyone, um, with handwriting, you know, that they want to, to fix or, or, you know, in Rob's case, remember how to, um, to write. Like if you told me to go write like the cursive alphabet right now, I could do it, but not as fast as I could print it. So if I wanted to work on my cursive handwriting or, uh, what do you, what did, what are the Brits called? Joined up?
• Sure. Yeah. We do sometimes call it joined up, which is the worst thing. It is. I think the first time Myke said, I said, do you mean cursive or just like script? Yeah. We got joined up. I'm like, wow. Okay. Um, so yeah, like when I had what, if I have to do it right now, I could do it. But if I decided tomorrow to take like a week and take, you know, 30 minutes a day where I just like did, you know, a page or two of practicing a, then practicing B, that's how I do it. You know, I practice letters at a time. That's my advice to you. Um, practice letters, then practice joining them. Um, you know, not just like copying entire books and paragraphs and sentences and things like that. Um, you start with a single, single letter. Um, you can, you can, I promise you it would not take you that long, but, but it does take dedicated practice and then it, it, it makes a difference. Yeah. And did you notice what happened? Oh, I have to buy a notebook for that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Let's, let's talk about the stuff that you're buying. Cause this is actually what got me to invite you on the show. I was like, what is going on with Rob? There's some stuff going on, but first let me thank our second sponsor of the show this week. And that is our good friends over at Squarespace.
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• All right, Rob, what is the most recent pen or pencil or paper that you bought? What's the most recent stationary item that you bought? The most recent was the, I bought a yellow Jetstream Lite and a Life Noble memo pad. Is that Noble? I can't remember what the, is that the brand? That's it. So Life is the brand. They call their notebooks the Noble. I don't know the exact, like, reasoning why. But, like, Life overall, just the word Life is the brand name. And then Noble, the notebook product. Yeah, so that turned up on a couple of days ago. Oh, that also turned up with a extra fine nib for my All-Star. Because one of the things I've realized quite quickly is I like small nibs and small tips on pens. Yes. Anything over, like, 0.7, and it depends on the pen. Even 0.7 is big for me. I like things really small. Yeah, so we're in kind of that same category. What is your handwriting like? Do you print or is it cursive or just... It's capital letters and it's print. Okay. But is it still reasonably small, though, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's still pretty small. Yeah, so Lamy, I don't know what nib was on your original All-Star, but even their extra fine nib is going to be pretty wide, but you'll be able to work with that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so that turned up and I switched out straight away. Look at you. Like, you're a professional. No one would realize, like, in the beginning, like, you can just literally slide that Lamy nib right off the front end and slide in a replacement. Now, you got to go buy it, right? Like, it's more money, but it is super easy to change. Oh, did I have to chase it down, though? Because I wanted a black one. Oh, true. And I don't know what's going on with black extra fine. Mm-hmm. Every shop in the UK completely sold out.
• Historically, Lamy has had weird nib inventory. Like, it's... God, it's been two or three years. It wasn't even... I don't even know if it was during, like, COVID times when you would expect to have, like, a shortage, but they had a just complete shortage of, I think, just extra fine steel nibs and, like, no one could buy anything. It was really weird. And then it corrects itself and then everything's fine. But, yeah, they'll randomly... That'll randomly happen with Lamy. And now they're under new ownership. So who knows what, like, how the workflows are going for that. But so you ended up finding one, though? I did end up finding one. I think it came from... No, I can't remember where it came from, but I found one. I found somewhere that was selling them, which was good. So you found it easy to swap?
• Yeah. Yeah, really. I mean, it already had a cartridge in it. So I was like, let's go do this over the sink just in case. But, you know, I got a little bit on my finger, but nothing, you know, it's really not that difficult at all. Yeah. And it... So it came with a medium.
• The... I didn't know what I was doing. Like, I had an option to pick whichever nib I wanted when I ordered it. Because I didn't know. I was like, okay, let's just try medium, whatever.
• Medium's way too big. So... Yeah. Now I've got the extra fine. That's way nicer. And I think I'm probably going to use that one this week. Yeah. In the journal. Nice. And are you just using the cartridges that Lamy ships with it?
• For now, I am. But given... You know, I keep seeing some very nice inks. I mean, the petrol. Lamy, I was going to say, it's Lamy petrol. I... So for my fiery, I always use blue inks in it. Because I like to do kind of like the opposing, like complementary opposing inks, right? It's a red pen. And I'll use like a blue ink and vice versa, things like that. So petrol would be a perfect choice, honestly. And sometimes they will do those in cartridges as well. So like, I'm not opposed to just buying a pack of petrol cartridges and using that as well. So we'll see. I don't know what they're going to do with this. Oh my.
• So one question I had, like last year, you actually won a pen from our site sponsor, Enigma Stationery, which that was kind of... That was almost an outlier at the time in just looking at how things have gone for you, right? You weren't really talking about stationery much. You won... Which one was it? It was the Mark 1 Enigma?
• Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So they did a special collab. It was... Gosh, it's like turquoise teal. It's one of my favorites. I have that pen.
• But it's... Was it not sticky, you know, as far as like usage at that time? Like, I'm sure now, like, you're very happy to have that. But like, that was only like six months ago, if that. But I don't know. Were you even writing that much at that point?
• No. So I wasn't... Again, I hadn't started sort of writing anything. But I did get, you know, the Mark 1 and it turned up... You know, it's a beautiful pen. I mean, I'm not breaking any new ground here by saying it's a nice pen. Yeah.
• Although the finish on the Enigma edition is gorgeous, but that's... No, but I did find myself... I was using it a bit more, you know, to write down just on scrap bits of paper. And the notepad that you can see in the photos on the blog post was like a promotional one that I got from somewhere. I can't even remember now. So I was just writing stuff on that. But it wasn't... It wasn't immediate for me. I didn't get that pen and go, right. Okay, this is it. Now I'm going to start... Sure. Start writing. Because I was still looking for that reason to buy notebooks. And then, you know, as we've discussed, the bullet journaling was then that reason. Mm-hmm.
• So this... One question I do have, and I kind of like to cover this for someone who is just getting into this. Can you... How much difference between papers are you able to, like, tell? Like, can you tell the difference between, like, say, maybe your first Amazon notebook or whatever brand it was versus, say, like, the Life Noble notebook? Are you able to, like, discern how, like, certain pens write? And can you tell a difference in that? Or is that not really a thing?
• Oh, yeah. I'm already that person. Okay, okay. So we have some, what I would say, reasonably nice promotional notebooks for my job, my day job. And I have a couple of them here.
• And after using, you know, the notebook that I am using, an actual nice paper, they feel like trash. I mean, they're not, you know, they're fine. They're perfectly serviceable notebooks. And, you know, my wife uses them. She's like, oh, I've run out. Can I have another one, please? She loves them. They're great for her.
• But, yeah, I'm already like, no, this paper's no good. I can't, you know, anything less than 100 GSM I'm not even touching.
• So, yeah. So those have... That's where I've noticed it the most. Yes. And that's one thing I always discuss with people just getting into the hobby, especially fountain pens, that eventually you're going to realize that the paper is the most important part of all of this, right? That you could have, you could pick up your Lamy All-Star with a medium nib and write in two different places and think it's simultaneously the worst pen and the best pen. And it's not the pen. It's the paper, right? So, yeah. Oh, definitely. When the Life memo pad turned up yesterday and I, you know, I grabbed the Lamy and I grabbed a couple of other pens just to try it. And I'm like, oh, this is just nice. Like, this is nice paper. Yeah. It's literally right now, that's the notebook I'm using for this show. It's my main notebook on my desk. I have an A5 kind of soft cover grid Life Noble notebook. This is my go-to notebook. Between that and, like, Midori MD, those are, like, my two, like, one and two interchangeably notebooks. Because they work well, since I use more than just fountain pens, they work well for ballpoints, rollerballs. I'm using a fineliner today. So, I'm using, like, a UniPen, which is just, like, a classic Sakura Pikma Micron fineliner. And, you know, I'm using it on the bottom of a page where I just splashed a bunch of fountain pen ink on there in the same notebook. And it handles it all really, really well. So, good choice on the notebook.

Zebra Mildliners and their appeal

• What's the fascination with Zebra mildliners?
• Do you know, this is, you hinted at having this problem before, but the completionist. Yeah. So, I had found Tesco is a chain of supermarkets in the UK. And they were selling, like, a set of 15 mildliners and 15 of just Zebra's generic gel pens for, like, £10. So, I was like, I'm going to go grab those because I'd seen that the mildliners are nice markers and things like that. So, I grabbed those and I thought, oh, maybe let me grab another pack. And now I've got, you know, 20 of the colours. And I'm like, how many colours are there? And the next thing I know, I'm ordering the other three from various places. And then I found out about this Japan and US difference in one of the sets. So, in the US set of the neutral set, you get copper. But in the Japanese set, you get dusty pink.
• Which, to be honest, when it's next to one of the other pinks, I can't even tell the difference. But I had to buy it anyway. It was very important to me that I had all of them. Purely because I just wanted all of them. So, they're another thing. I pick two of those every week to use in the journal.
• And, you know, I just pick two random ones that I haven't used before. So, I can, like, get use out of all of them.
• Yeah, this is amazing. I'm going to link to your post on this. And you have a chart, the full chart and the differences between the two countries. On the copper, the dusty pink, I'm staring at it right now. It's awesome. And, like, this is everything. I'm over here yelling in my head, one of us, one of us. Like, yeah. I definitely felt it when I was editing. I'm editing the Zebra official chart to add the extra color. Like, what am I doing?
• All right. Now, here comes, this is the hard question. Pick one color. What's your favorite?
• I think.
• Right. I'm looking at them now. I think the Vermillion or Smoke Blue. So, both of those are actually from the same set. Okay.
• But both of those are really nice. Yeah.
• I think if I had to pick one, I'd go for the Vermillion. But, yeah. There's some great colors in there. There really is. There are. They're really good. There's a reason why these are so popular is because they really nail the colors. They're not too bold for what's ostensibly a highlighter, right? These are made to highlight and annotate. And you should be able to write over them or around them. And they've done a really good job with this set as being complimentary and not overwhelming, which is, I think, why they're so popular. Which, I mean, it's in the name, Mildliner. So, like, they know exactly what they're doing. And they did it better than pretty much everyone else, I think. So, it's really good. I think the – I think I've had the gentle color set pass through my hands. Because I remember this mild soda blue. It seems like I liked one of that color or something like that. I can't remember. So, anyway. Yeah, that's nice one. It's good stuff. These Zebra Mildliners are popular for a reason. And it's because they're good. They're really, really good. So, how are you using them? So, you're saying you're using – picking a couple of colors out.
• How does the Mildliner exactly play into, like, the bullet journal or the writing? Are they literal highlights? Are they – are you checking off, marking off? How are you using them, just in general? Yeah. So, I do a bit of both. So, normally what I'm doing is picking a color and then picking one of the sort of three grays and maybe, like, some of the other sort of – like, the cream and the olive is quite light. So, the grays end up being, like, highlights under lines or a highlight, the date, that kind of thing. Like, maybe I'll draw boxes around and I'm just putting shadows underneath that kind of thing. And then I'll use the brighter color for – instead of marking an important task with a star, I would just highlight it. That's generally what I'm doing. I might use it for, you know, just drawing around some little note that I've made that's maybe not in the right place, just so I kind of know where it is. But, yeah, that's pretty much what I'm using, you know, essentially how they expect you to use them, which is highlighting important things. Yeah, exactly. And, like, you said that last little bit, you said, if I have something that's kind of maybe not in the right place, like, I, like, just draw an arrow or, like, highlight it or box it or something and say, you know, oh, this kind of goes over here or don't forget about this. Like, it could just be some random marking that I have that ended up being, oh, like, this is actually pretty important. I should remember this. So, in going through and doing my vast amounts of research for this episode, one product did surprise me that you came up with, and that is the Uniball Kuretoga 0.3 millimeters.

Pencil preferences and the allure of themed designs

• Tell me about your pencil use, why you bought this one, and how is that 0.3 mechanical pencil working for you? Because I have thoughts. So, firstly, I'll tell you that I bought that because it was the Pokemon edition one. Yes, yes. And it has Pikachu on it. So, you know, I also bought, like, a Pikachu Energel Pentel one. As one does. A bunch of stuff. As you do. It was, yeah, 0.3 is maybe a little bit small. I have a 0.5 Pentel, or I can't remember the name of the brand, the name of the type. So, if it's the part of that set of four that you got, is it, or it's those. So, that's the Pentel Sharp. That is one of the greatest mechanical pencils ever made. So, you got that set there. There was a, if they send you the whole set, they did a 50th anniversary for that recently, a few years. Right. But they have the 3, 5, 7, and 9 millimeter pencils there. So, yeah, go ahead.
• Yeah. So, the 5 is definitely the, I mean, you know, as you say, it's a lovely pencil anyway. But 5 is definitely more appropriate for me. But, you know, if you're going to put Pikachu on a pencil, I'm probably going to buy it. Fair enough. You know, it was, I think that was probably one of the first purchases I made. Okay. You know, because I was like, oh, I need a pencil.
• And I sort of asked around, and I bought a couple of other ones as well. But that was the one that sort of jumped out at me because it's, you know, because it's more interesting because it's got Pikachu on it and that kind of thing. Totally. Well, the Kuratoga is a great pencil. So, anything like sub 0.5 millimeter in pencil, it's very different than pens. It's much more fragile even if you have a light hand. And it tends to just be just a more challenging writer. Like if you're doing any kind of writing at all. Like if you're doing detail work, I get like 0.3. They even make a 0.2 pencil. It's just like even for me, it's unusable for writing. And I like to write as small as humanly possible. And it's a pretty tough sell. But it's good to have. And I mean, hey, it's Pikachu. Come on. Yeah, exactly. So, I got to wonder where we're at now. And again, in my vast amounts of research, you were recently talking to John. It's like, yeah, I feel pretty good. Like I don't know that I need anything. But I hear some wavering in your voice throughout this podcast. What might be next? I mean, you've already mentioned the Lamy Safari out there. Like what else? Is there anything else like that has caught your eye in this vast world of stationery that you're just starting to explore? Yeah.
• So, the Safari is definitely jumping out at me.
• I'm going to pick up a Platinum Preppy in an actual color that I can just use. You know, the pink is lovely. But I definitely need like a black or a blue or something. Yeah. You know, so I'll just throw one of those on the next order that I get because they're incredibly cheap. But they're so good. They're legit good. Like those are, that's a pen that even the most experienced fountain pen user will just swear by. It's that good. Mm-hmm. I'm looking at a converter for the Lamy. Yeah. Because I'm thinking, oh, I can get some ink and, you know, try out some different, you know, try out just using actual inks rather than just the cartridges. Which is, what was the green one that you just gave away on the Twisby Eco? Yes. Is that a thing? Yeah. So, Twisby Eco. Yeah. It's in the Lamy Safari category as far as price and feel, like construction. But it is a piston filler, right? So, there's no cartridge. Yeah. No converter. You just have to dip it in the bottle of ink and draw the ink up into it. Yeah. It's a great pen. And, like, I don't want to say I swear by them, but they're really solid. I recommend them. I give them away. They make a lot. There's always, like, that's one, like, if you have a particular color, like, you could just look around and it's like, oh, yes, I love this one because they just make a bunch of them. Yeah. I think, and I've actually done this with other hobbies as well. Like, when I got into comics, I was just buying comics. I liked the look of the covers and I'd find interesting stories. Yep. And that's kind of what I'm doing with pens. I'm like, oh, yeah, you've got something that's bright pink or, like, a purple. Yeah. You know, I really like those colors, whether it's the ink or the pen itself. And, you know, just picking up random stuff. And, you know, I've got some really nice stuff here that I really enjoy. Yeah. And are using it, which is the most important part, right? So, we all want to use our stuff. Like, I can't talk. Like, I'm staring at dozens of pens that I haven't used in weeks. So, you know, but it's great. And it's great to see, you know, someone, like, figuring this out and, you know, just getting started in the hobby. And, you know, hope you're having fun with it. And hope you're finding, like, actual real world benefits from it. You know, I think it's fantastic. And I think it's worth noting, and, you know, I think this happens more than people realize, but, like, the people I've spoken to, either in the live stream chat or in the Relay Discord, like, everyone's just really nice. Like, I've probably asked some really, if you know what you're talking about, some really stupid questions. But people are just nice. People want to help. Yeah. You know, and it's nice to come to a hobby or a new community like that and know that people would just be nice and they're quite happy to answer your questions, whatever that happens to be. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great thing about this hobby. I'm really glad that that's your experience and hopefully, you know, a mostly universal experience for a lot of people who are just starting to figure this thing out. And, like, it's really fun. It's really, like, personally beneficial.
• And it can really put a dent in your wallet if you're not careful. So, no more listening to the podcast after this episode, Rob. You're banned for the next six months.
• Yeah. I think by my count, I'm probably going to spend another 200 pounds based on what we've just spoken about. So... Yeah, you have quite the list. Quite the list. Yeah. All right. Well, write that down in your notebook. Write down that shopping list. That's one of the things I use my notebooks for. But this has been great. Thank you for spending some time with me this week. And I'll have all the links in the show notes to everything we talk about and all the stuff you're working on, all the things you're doing. I want to give a special thanks to our sponsors this week, Enigma Stationery and Squarespace. And until next time, say goodbye, Rob. Goodbye. Goodbye. Thank you.