The Pen Addict 656/transcript

• From Relay, this is The Pen Addict, episode number 656. Today's show is brought to you by Pen Chalet and Factor. My name is Brad Dowdy, and today I'm joined by Eric Gama of Amarillo Stationery. How's it going, Eric? Hey, Brad. How's it going? Oh, I'm so excited to have you. Thank you so much for having me. This is going to be fun. It is going to be fun, because I know you well, and I know how fun you are, and I know what kind of stationery you like. And I want to talk about Amarillo Stationery. But like I've told the other guests since Myke is out, we got to keep up with the news a little bit. Right. Right. So we're going to get into your background, and everyone's going to learn a little bit more about Eric and what you're up to, and especially Amarillo Stationery, which is a shop that I love. But first, we got to hit the news. And we had some news drop last week. After last week's podcast, the day after, we had maybe a little bit of a preview of Lamy's upcoming All-Star 2025 limited edition releases. So a lot of times, retailers, maybe we'll ask Eric if you've ever launched anything early and did an oopsie. But, you know, sometimes we can get some pictures off some websites, and we're not going to name names. But we got some pictures. They showed up on Reddit. So I got this thread passed around to me. So before we discuss these new colors, Eric, I have to ask you, number one, are you a Lamy fan? And number two, if so, are you a Safari or Team All-Star or Team Safari? I am a Lamy fan. I do like some of their models. I will say that. Fair. Totally fair. I think the only model I don't like is the, this is going to be painful to some of you, but the 2000 is just not my favorite. Fair.
• But I think as far as All-Star versus standard or regular Safari, I think I like the regular, just like the full, give me the plastic. Yeah. I don't know what it is about, like, give me the stupid plastic pen. Yeah. I appreciate this fancy aluminum barrel, and like you did a nice job, but I don't know. It's just something about that Safari, and I can't explain it, never have been able to. I agree. Totally. And then I showed you pictures of what we're going to call denim and aubergine. So two releases, and I'm going to have links in the show notes for y'all to see what these pens look like. And I got to say, when I saw these, I'm like, oh yes, Lamy did the thing. Yes. They did. They did the thing. I've been clamoring for, and they've started to mix in some, some like two-tone All-Stars and things like that in the past. They did a red and yellow edition. But what these are, so denim is a blue aluminum barrel with, it looks like an orange translucent grip section.
• And aubergine is kind of a, I'm assuming it's supposed to be purple. It's kind of hard to tell in this picture, especially with aluminum and lighting. That's hard to totally tell, but you know, if it's supposed to be aubergine, I'm sure it's some tone of purple with a yellow grip section. What do you think about these pens? I think they're sick. I think they're really good. They knocked it out of the park and immediately that denim reminds me of you. I'm not sure if that's the one. Yeah. Okay. I was like, I don't know if you're preferring the aubergine, but the denim is so you, but they're really good. I love the combination of the translucent and metal. It just, it just looks so good in the color combinations. This is awesome. Yeah. I can't wait to see these in person. They obviously look really, really cool. So the hardware on each of these is black. So you have black clips and black nibs, but importantly, each pen. So the denim with the orange grip section has an orange finial and the aubergine with the yellow grip section has a yellow finial. They actually just like put it together correctly, which is not something I always get to say about Lamy. It's like, Hey, it's not hard to like match this stuff up. You know, you could do like, you know, the red clip to match the red section or something. That'd be okay. Lamy, you're allowed to. Let's be a little adventurous here. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, this is, I have not seen the safaris and I don't know what the limited editions are going to come out. This is always a huge talking point for me every year, right? Like, this is my, one of the handful of little things that I really go in on. And safaris got their work cut out for them. This is the best all-star I've seen in years. I agree. I, I personally am leaning toward the aubergine.
• Just that eggplanty color with the yellow section. It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, we're stationary lovers. Why not both? Right. Why not both? Yeah. You get the, they're both limited editions, right? So yeah, I got to get them both. So this'll be one of those. I don't think I've ever owned, um, an all-star that wasn't a fountain pen. And I don't even really own an all-star except just to like, kind of keep around just for testing, because like we said, I prefer the safari. But I think on this one, if they do like the aluminum, uh, ballpoints and do like the other, like ballpoint rollerball pencil, the ballpoints, like one of my favorite Lamy designs. And so this'll have the aluminum barrel and we'll see if they can mix in the orange into that. That would be sick. I would be, I would be all about that. So yeah, I'm a, I am definitely fanboying over these a lot, a lot. Speaking of which we got to get into another sneak preview that I saw, uh, from coffee monsters co. So, so Helen over at coffee monsters co is, is someone I'm a super fan of. Are you familiar with, with Helen's work at coffee monsters co? Yes. And I actually just this year started seeing more of her content. So I'm, I'm freshly new to her. Yeah. Same. So like, I didn't really know about her until stationary fest last year. And people were telling me even before I went, it's like, Oh, Helen from coffee monsters co is going to be there. You got to go meet her. You got to go see her stuff. And like instant love, like just the aesthetic, the style, then getting to meet the person behind the brand is like, okay, I'm completely bought in.

Collaboration with Esterbrook and Helen's Aesthetic

• So rumor had it a few months ago that Helen was collaborating with Esther brook, uh, not just for a pen, but for like all the things like pen ink accessories, like, you know, washi tape and you know, Helen's aesthetic. Like if you're not familiar again, I'll have a link in the show notes, a lot of journaling type goods. You know, she sells a lot of stickers, planner goods, uh, washi tape. She even has like some custom found penings. She's done with Robert Oster, things like that. So she's collaborating with Esther brook. And I got to see the pen at the California show. Um, and I came home with a couple of, uh, I didn't get to come home with the pen, but I got like the blotter paper and washi tape and stuff like that, that I've been having to like not show on camera. Yeah. Until someone finally spilled the beans. Well, Helen getting ready for like a big anniversary, uh, launch. I think it's the ninth anniversary I think was the plan. So to, so she launched it a month out. So she launched it like on March the 5th or 6th, I forget for an April 5th launch. She's doing a pen with Esther brook. It's a knockout. I like what they did with this. What do you, what do you think about this pen? And then I'll definitely get into it. It's so good. The color is insane. It's, it's something that is really pretty. And then there's a section of, um, uh, well, you probably have those details. I don't know what it is, but it looks like PM, right? It's a Brooks, um, resin and I forget the exact name of it. Uh, it does have its own name, but the resin. So the barrels like, um, creamy, like a milky coffee color. Um, I don't have the specs up in front of it. She listed out what the spec color is, but then, so that's the majority of the barrel, right? Then it's got a cap band and a grip section or that are this swirled Brooks, you know, like a darker mocha caramelly, like very like full coffee themed. It looks like an iced coffee, right? To me. Yes, it does. Like with like cream in it or something like that. And then the, her, um, character, a Modi, which is featured on a lot of her hand-drawn work is the nib engraving on the pen. And yeah, it's just kind of like a perfect combination. This is one of those pens. That. That.
• The challenge was restraint, right? Like it could have been like way over the top, like the materials could have been reversed or something like that to where it's all swirls or all sparkles, but they flipped it completely around. And like, that's something I super, super appreciate about this. You are so right. That could have gone completely the opposite way. And yes, I very much appreciate how they tackled it this time or what it looks like now. So yeah, they really did a great job. Yeah. Because honestly, when you look at Estabrook, when you, if like I was, if I was Estabrook and I came to Eric, I would pretty much tell you, you have free reign, right? Because Estabrook has shown they'll make just like whatever. Yes. Like they could have done. And then to, to like have this choice, I'm not going to say it's pared down because I actually think it's really like dialed in for exactly what it needed, but it's not, you know, it's not like a glitter explosion or, which I love. Like a perfect example is the, the, the bunga box pen that they released. Um, the cracked pink, uh, like cherry blossom looking, holy cow, what a knockout. Yeah. That was really good too. But like, that's like a, like a design challenge. There's a lot of difficulty in getting that right. And there was, but it's equally as hard to do something more simple, but have all these little details in it. And like, I super appreciate that. Yeah. It's well balanced. I think if you think of like a coffee cup, like the entire body is, you know, all that liquid underneath, under that marbly surface. So I think it's perfect. Yeah, it's great. It's great. So this doesn't come out till April 5th and it's a limited edition. I have no idea how many they're going to make. Well, I'll probably talk about it later. If we get some more details, uh, the price was good. It was like, I think it was one 95. Um, I don't know right up in front of me. Totally fair price. You know, Helen's goal with this and talking to her about this, she has a lot of traditional journaling customers who may not be into fountain pens. Right. So it was a goal to have something that's approachable to them, even though it's probably more than they've ever spent on a pen, but at least trying to make the story of the pen, not like overly complex and scare people away from fountain pens are scary type of situation. So, uh, I think it's great. So. Knowing that I see the thought behind it. And then also seeing that she kind of teased the pen a month before it comes out, she's almost giving you that chance. Like, Hey, here's this product. And if you really like it, how about you start maybe saving up for it? You know, at least that's how I'm tackling it because do I need another SD? I don't think so, but this is an SD that I think I need. Yeah. That's I'm exactly right. And she did mention that in one of her comments. I was reading all the, I was like, I want to know, it's really interesting for me to follow someone like Helen that we're in the general, same general, you know, arena, you, me and you, Eric, and then, and Helen, we all love like these things about stationary, but we all kind of go about things in different ways. Everyone's an individual. They have their own likes and tastes. And Helen's built a business on not really fountain pens, although she's used fountain pens for years, right? She's all of her videos or her, a lot of them are with her handwriting with fountain pens. She mentioned in one of the comments about, I am doing exactly what you said, giving people the opportunity who are not used to this to start saving that. Like if you're, if you want to try this, like I'm giving you the opportunity to start saving now. It's like, it's just really, really smart and fun to, fun to see. So yeah, I look forward to that. I actually, I usually don't do like crazy FOMO setting the alarms, getting up at a time. I might have to on this one. I kind of want this. I mean, I don't kind of want this one. I a hundred percent want this one. So we'll figure it out. So. And then if you pair it with like a Gina journaler nib, which I hope is one of the options. It is. So that is the one, that's the one specialty nib. Again, like she thought of everything, right? Yeah. So you have your few standard nibs and if we're going to do an Estherbrook specialty nib, what will it be? Well, this very approachable creative nib, right? In the journaler, which is my favorite SD specialty nib. So like, yeah. To the shock of no one that knows Helen at all, just nailed everything, nailed everything. Agreed. Last one, before we get into all the fun stuff that you're, you're up to, I wasn't going to put this in here, but as I was scrolling through Instagram, you know, and following Uniball and I saw their one P. So their new Uniball one P is the short kind of stubby version of their gel ink pen that has somehow become really popular in this. So they did a release called cider and raspberry. So these are two translucent barrel colors, you know, fairly priced, you know, they're like three, $4. I think they're like a $4 pen. And then I saw heart by Eric Gama over there. I was like, Oh, I'm going to ask, I'm going to ask. Do you, do you like, do you like these, these style of pens and do you use like gel pens generally, like on a daily basis? I use gel pens occasionally. I'm starting to journal more this year and I'm using a different brand of gel pens, but I do have actually in front of me, I have a, I have a Uniball one. Yes. So just the regular one, the regular one. Yes, the regular one. And it just, it's beautiful. It writes perfectly. I love the line it makes. Um, and I actually do have one, a, a small one P in the, like, it's, I forget the exact color way, but it's the orangey, like rusty color that came out maybe last year or so. Yep. Um, it's just so cute and I love the design. So yeah.
• And these two right here look pretty cute too. Yeah. I like the, I mean, all companies need to do is just make something translucent and colorful. And they have me, like I'm hooked. Like you don't have to, your pen could be terrible, but Brad's going to be taking a second look and, and probably buying it. But I, yeah, I was using the one I did not, I'll admit, I did not completely love the regular one when it came out. Um, I couldn't quite, I, as someone who uses a lot of gel ink pens, the standard Signo ink I preferred over the one, the one was a little bit glidier, a little bit darker, like all like features. Right. It was made for a reason. And then they've had a couple other different models. And I was like, well, let me keep trying because I really liked the shape. Right. It's got like a Lamy clip, which is hilarious. Right. Right. Yeah. Raving about Lamy and people will look at this clip and go, Oh, that looks like a Lamy clip, but it's really nice. And then they, it must've done well enough. They just leaned into it and started making all these colors, all these different shapes, um, different style. There's like one that's weighted with like a metal tip towards the front of the barrel. So, uh, yeah, I'm in, I don't love the short ones as much because like I'm fine with one of, like I, in that same series that you bought the orange one, I bought the purple one. So that was in that same group that you bought last year. And it's like, I'm fine with this just for like one pen. Um, but like, I, I like the standard ones, but I'm a hundred percent getting cider and raspberry.
• They're just, they just look so adorable. Like, like you would stubby little pens and like the material, the frosted. Yeah. You got me. Do you ever, I was thinking about these pens in particular. Do you ever just buy a pen just so you can take pictures of it? Like with other stuff, like it's in your layout or your spread. It's like, Oh, let me throw this cute little pen in there. I have done that before. A hundred percent. Yeah. So yeah. Then they've done that.
• All right. Well, we need to get it. That's a, that's enough news. You know, this was a big news week, uh, for, for all the things that we like to talk about here on the pen. A lot of brands that I, uh, enjoy wanting to get your perspective, but now I want to talk about you. But before we do that, we're going to take our first ad break and talk about our good friends over at Penn Chalet.
• So Penn Chalet sells authentic, amazing roller balls, fountain pens, ballpoints, mechanical pencils, and so much more. They have all your favorite brands like Monteverde, Pelican, Lamy, Pilot, Namiki, Sailor, and Kaweco. And are of course, an authorized dealer of all of these brands. They have very fast and reliable customer service. They run special discounts twice a month, including closeout specials every two weeks. They're always adding new styles of pens every single month. As well as all these brands we mentioned earlier, Penn Chalet sells limited edition pens and all the pen accessories you ever need, like pen carrying cases, pen holders, refills, fountain pen converters, and so much more. They have free shipping on orders over $75 in the United States. And they also ship internationally with very reasonable shipping rates. Penn Chalet has low prices on high quality pens and offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee. So go to pennchalet.com slash penaddict to get 10% off anything at Penn Chalet and to see this week's exclusive offers for listeners of the show. So I popped over to the Penn Chalet page. And the first thing I noticed is that Ron has changed the layout. He has updated the layout to match more like the regular pen layout over there at Penn Chalet. If you go into a product page, they're more laid out in the square boxes and things like that. And it's really, really cool. I love seeing all this. You can see more pens per square inch on your screens, Eric, which is what I like. I get to see all the things at once. So they have some really, really cool stuff. They have a mystery box up now, which I haven't seen them do before. It is, gosh, I need to go look at this. Penn Chalet, Penn Stash mystery box.
• Let's see what it gets in there. One fountain pen, whoa, featuring Brooks resin. A leather pen case, a bottle of ink, a journal, care pack, sticker. Wow, value of over $300 for just $124.99. Wow, that's super interesting. So we'll have to check that out. So that's on the Penn Attic page. You can go check that out. There's a bunch of ink samples on there, which I haven't seen Penn Chalet make available on the Penn Attic listeners page before. So if you're into ink, they've been putting a lot of inks out there into the world. Lots of cool samples to check out. And if you like the samples, you can go buy your bottle and go find them over there at PennChalet.com. So thank you to Penn Chalet for this wonderful section of special products this week. You can head over to PennChalet.com slash PennAddict and find all of this good stuff for yourself. So thank you so much to Penn Chalet for sponsoring Relay and the Penn Addict. All right, Eric, let's get into it.

Personal Journey into Stationery

• When did you first fall in love with stationery? I got to know. I got to ask all my friends, like, how did this begin? Like, did this start when you were a kid? Or did this come later in life, like school or later, even later in life, you know, like post-school or, you know, workforce? So when did your love for stationery, when did you realize that was a thing?
• Such a hard question, Brad, I think. Well, you know, when you sent me over a few questions, I started thinking and going back, like, when did it happen? And I can kind of remember, like, in elementary school when my dad bought my brother and myself some metallic gel pens and a notebook with black paper. And that was kind of the first coolest thing we had seen ever. And then sometimes you could write with the gel pen and then erase it. And then instead of it being glittery, it became like a solid color. So it was my first experience with, like, I was like, what is going on here? And then he, like, also back then in elementary school, he would, he bought us rolling backpacks. So, of course, like we had to carry our cool new supplies, right? So there was nothing in there, but like our black little notebook with my metallic gel pens. And then, like, going through, because I don't remember much besides just pencils and paper. In fifth grade, it was when I was in elementary school in the United States because I moved to the U.S. when I, in the middle of fifth grade. So I was, what, 10 or 11 years old. And just seeing loose paper to me was such a weird concept. Really? Yes, it was just, in Mexico, every subject had its separate notebook. And personally, I would never tear out a page. Just that was blasphemy to me.
• Respect your notebooks, respect your paper. So that was the first time when I would see kids just like, you know, they messed up on a page and just toss it up and throw it away. I'm like, what is going on? What's happening?
• And then that was also my introduction to binders. I had never seen a binder before. So that was kind of cool. I was like, what is this accessory?
• And also, I can't remember the way I would carry my utensils. But for some reason, seeing a little plastic box or plastic case with your little pencils and pens, that was the coolest thing to me. Yeah, I love the little boxes and the kind of the Ziplocs that you would clip into your binder, right? You had to have like the three ring binder baggies type of situation with the little zipper that would fail like pretty soon. And you toss your stuff all over the floor. Sure. And, you know, that was a mess. So at some point, I imagine this escalated beyond loose leaf paper binders. I don't know. You never get past the black paper and bright gel pens. Like we don't get past that. That stays with us. That kind of thing stays. But when did you kind of think, oh, like, you know, I found a pen that's a little bit different than I like or I found a notebook, you know, maybe I maybe you just want to journal later in life or something like that. Did you was there like a turning point later in life where you like found something new?
• I think it was definitely now like fast forward a lot of years. It was definitely in college because I enrolled in this interior design program. And with my art classes, they requested a bunch of art supplies and things like that. And in my studio classes, they requested all these crazy utensils that I had never heard of. Like I was like, why do we need a micron pen? And, you know, I didn't even know how to pronounce the things. So I would just go to the store. Yeah. I have like a few of them now. I get it. So Eric and I are talking on video. Eric literally has the Securipig Micron in his hand. I have the Uni pen, which is the same like the fineliner. So, yeah, sorry. Go ahead. No, you're fine. But that was when I realized that there's more to life than pencils and like ballpoints. Right.
• And so they gave us a list of so many pens. And I was like, why do we need a specific pen for just one project for the entire semester? Anyway, I didn't get it. But I got them because it was required. Like we had all these skinny lead pens, like lead holders. All the all the erasers you could find. Wow. Tomboy erasers. So they were they were really good, you know. So that was when I started exploring the world of stationery and art supplies in general. Yeah. I don't think I gosh, I'll have to check now that my kids are getting college age. Like I would doubt we would get like a really intense brand specific, you know, like supply sheet like that. Like microns, all these sizes, lead holders, all these sizes, tomboy erasers, you know, these types and just on and on and on. That's yeah, that I'm just thinking. Yeah. I don't know if that would happen these days. I'll have to if anyone if anyone's in college, college age and doing like design, art, architecture, engineering classes. Let me know if you have like a really like are you at engineering class and they're telling you you got to get like the full set of all the tips of repeatographs like these days. Like I don't know if that happens anymore. That's cool. I kind of hope so because it was kind of discovering that. But then it also got really expensive, like really, really quick. So then you're more careful with your supplies. Right. And then like you don't know what you're getting. So you don't have the information to go somewhere else. I'm like, well, I'm going to get this because I think it's similar. You just don't know. Right. So it is what it is. And you got all the supplies from the list. Yeah. That's why the college bookstores were so popular for us stationary lovers back in the day because they would stock the thing for this list. Yes. And it was just so it's just endless cool stuff. And now it's just like I go to like, you know, my daughter's in college and I'm like looking around. I was like, where's the notebooks? Where's the pens? And it's like, it's not too much. Not too much fun. Not as much fun as I had back in school going to the college bookstore. Sure.

Introduction to Fountain Pens

• When did when did fountain pens happen? Was that a very, very later in life thing? Or did you kind of start to dabble like earlier on? No, that was definitely later in life. That was, I think, just before the pandemic. Honestly. Okay. My friend Jeffrey, I had posted something on Facebook about loving paper, loving notebooks, because who doesn't like a fresh, new, pretty notebook, right? So I had posted like a meme about it. And then my friend Jeffrey reached out asking if I had ever tried a fountain pen. And I was like, no, I don't even think I knew what that was. Honestly, I don't have any recollection of any memories thinking of I need or I would like to try a fountain pen. So he took me to Atlas Stationers like a week or two later. And then I immediately, my first pen was a Platinum Procyon. And it's just like, you know, it looks nice. It feels nice. A hefty pen. I'm sure you've tried it before. It's great. A hefty pen. Surprisingly, it's the Citron yellow. So it's a yellow pen. Although now looking back. We might talk about yellow in this episode.
• I have such a specific taste for the color yellow. If it's not mustard yellow, I don't want it. And so I've discovered that through these like, what, six years ever since. But yeah, that's when fountain pens started. And during the pandemic, you're just, you know, sitting at home like, well, let me dig more into these fountain pens. And so I got involved with Inco Remo writing a letter a month. And at first I was a little bit scared of just using up my fountain pens because I would think that by using it, you're wasting away the tip or the nib. And so I was being very precious with my little fountain pens. I was barely using any ink. Just dipped a little pen a little bit and just used a little bit of ink, you know. But yeah, it was during the pandemic. And then now we're here. I was going to ask you a percentage question. I was going to ask you the yellow percentage question. Oh my gosh. I don't, you know, as much as I love yellow, they're not all yellow. And a percentage, that's a good question. Like I, I like, I'm, you're the yellow guy. I'm the orange guy. I don't have a lot of orange pens. Like, yeah. Yeah. There's not a bad opportunity. Right. And then, you know, you, you probably have a specific orange color that you like. So, you know, everything, anything can be orange, but if it's not the right shade of orange that you like, you're not going to get it. So I have a lot of people usually send me like yellow pens and I'm like, in my head, I'm like, it's not the right yellow. So I'm not going to get it, you know, but there's a few that I'm like, okay, I need to get that. Yeah. So you gave me an interesting idea as you probably watched me sitting here scribble away about the funny things we do when we first discover fountain pens. And kind of like when we didn't grow up, like I didn't grow up with fountain pens. You didn't grow up with fountain pens. I didn't know how to use a fountain pen. Didn't know what all this was. And you mentioned this like, oh, I'm afraid I'm going to wear out the tip. Like my thing was like the ink, when the ink would get on the nib, like on the top of the nib and you could see it. I always thought there was a problem. So I'd wipe it off. And as any fountain pen person knows, like that's like the Sisyphean, like pushing the rock up the hill. Like you're never getting that nib clean, but that wouldn't stop me. I like, I would like get out and like a paper towel and have to detail like around the nib. Oh my God. Oh yeah. It was madness. Like it was, it was frustrating. And then it was, and now I'm like, well, my hands are blue. No big deal. Like it's funny how that changes. Yeah. No, but as a newbie, I get it. I get where you were coming from. Yeah. You, you have a, you know, a semi, I mean, I don't know what pen you started with. That was a safari. That was just, yeah. And if you're starting in the fountain pens, like that's a hefty price. You know, you go from like a ballpoint. No joke. First day to a safari. And you're like, this is kind of expensive. Yeah. So yeah, I get it. Like you take care of the nib and making sure it's clean. I totally, totally get it. Oh man. So yeah. Um, yeah, it's good stuff. So what are you using most of your stuff these days for, you know, uh, writing journaling? Like I kind of know the answer to this because I follow you very much online, but, uh, what do you, what are you using most of your fountain pens for these days?
• Definitely for journaling. Um, I do, I have a plotter of course. Um, and so I do get to use my fountain pens in my plotter every once in a while, uh, for my project management stuff that I do for work. But if I'm using my fountain pens, it's definitely on a dedicated notebook for journaling. Um, just because, you know, sometimes I don't want to use an expensive notebook per se for, for work. And so I just have a random little notepad and I have to use a ballpoint because the paper is just like, if you're seeing feathering all over it, it's just, you know, it throws me off and I just don't want to deal with it. So it's a regular notebook and a ballpoint pen and I'm good to go. Yeah. So I, I didn't, I didn't prep you for this, but I think it's very easy, simple, straightforward question about journaling. So I know you're, you're very prolific journaler. Do you have a, uh, routine or schedule? Like, do you, like, do you, does it bother you if you miss a day type of thing? Like how, how journally are we journaling?
• That's a good question. How generally, you know, I, I do wish I was a little bit more dedicated to it. Because when I first started, uh, with the fountain pen world, that's actually what got me into it was journaling and seeing all these, uh, accounts with beautiful spreads with ephemera and collages. And it's just, it was just the most beautiful thing. So that's kind of how I got away from writing letters on Tomoy River paper to actually journaling in a Franklin Kristoff, uh, notebook or insert. Um, and it was with my fountain pens and I was journaling maybe twice a week, uh, because it would take time to, at first I would just sit, I would tell myself, well, I want to journal tonight. So then I would sit there and prep my page. And then that would take me like 15 to 20 minutes of like just gluing stuff done to deciding what I wanted to do. And by that, by the time I was done, I was like, well, I don't want to journal anymore. So I'll get back tomorrow, you know? So that's why I, it'll, it would only be twice a week or so. Um, but now, um, I have a specific notebook where I'm trying to do more writing. So I have this daily tear, tear away calendar, uh, where, and I use it for my ephemera in my journal. And I write, I try to write every night sometimes because I'm trying to organize myself a little bit better. I have put away my stuff in a little, uh, rickshaw bonsai bag. And so, because I don't see my notebooks on the table, I forget about it. And it's not until I realized like two days later that I haven't journaled, um, that I get back to it. So, yeah, that's good though. Like I, I like, it's, it's a habit, right? But it's not like overly strict. Like I don't ever want anyone to like feel guilty about like missing a day journal. Like it's okay. Like I would really wear on myself. Like when I, I had to stop buying like dated planners and things like that, um, just because it would, it would overwhelm me like the blank page that says a number. And now that's in the past and there's nothing on it and it would just kind of be bothersome. Um, so, but I also like how your style where you include ephemera and things like that. It's a very, very soothing like type of setup to just, you know, let your brain just kind of go, put the things down that you want. Don't be too particular about it. And oh, by the way, it just happens to look gorgeous. You know, whatever. Thanks. Thanks a lot, Eric. I mean, you know what, to, to your point earlier that you just made about, uh, dated, uh, planners, I had bought a five year journal, right. And I barely got through the first year. And then the second year, I just, I stopped after two months. I was like, I just can't, like, if I can't get to it, like seeing all those blank pages, I don't know what happened. I don't, I've slept since then. I just let it go. And now it's just a little prop for my pictures. Yeah. So some, somehow that did work for me and I'll have to sit and think about that. So I'm like, you know, into year three now, um, where that's like a never, like a page a day planner never worked for me or even like, uh, even like a weekly layout type of thing never worked for me. That works for me. It's pretty small. Uh, sometimes I just barely write anything. I'll just write, well, today was a day, you know, something like that. And it's, it's okay. But then like there's days that I skipped too. So I survived. Yeah. I survived. I totally put that in there. It's like, I made it through today. Yes. Yeah. And then a year from now, I'll go, wow. Brad had a rough day last year. Brad had a rough day on March the third last year. Wow. What was going on? You do get to, you do get some, uh, annual reminders.
• All right. Well, I want to get back into the color yellow here and talk about Amario Stationery. Um, but before we do that, let's take our last ad break for this episode and talk about our good friends over at Factor. So this episode of the Penn Act is brought to you by Factor. You might be feeling that it's time to optimize your nutrition. If that's you, Factor has chef made gourmet meals that make eating well, easy. They're dietitian approved and ready to heat and eat in two minutes. So you can fuel right and feel great. No matter what life throws at you. Factor arrives fresh and fully prepared. Perfect for any active, busy lifestyle. And Factor Keto meals can help you meet your weight loss goals. They've conducted a randomized controlled clinical trial with Factor Keto, though it's worth noting that results will vary depending on diet and exercise. With 40 options across eight dietary preferences on the menu each week, it's easy to pick meals tailored to your goals. Choose from preferences like calorie smart, protein plus, or keto. So Factor can help you feel best all day long with wholesome smoothies, breakfast, grab and go snacks, and more add-ons. Reach your goals this year with ingredients you can trust and convenience that can't be beat. And that's what gets it for me is the convenience. Someone who works from home, the ability to have a really good quality, high quality meal quickly made at lunchtime when there's no family around or there's no one I need to cook for, my wife and I aren't cooking dinner in the middle of the day. It's been really, really ideal for my lunch. And then my son comes in and steals them for dinner if my wife's working late. So I go through Factor's quite a bit here at the household. But they're great because they're good and easy. It's really, really hard to beat. So eat smart with Factor. Get started at factormeals.com slash Factor Podcast and use code Factor Podcast to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. That's code Factor Podcast at factormeals.com Factor Podcast to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. Our thanks to Factor for their support of this show and all of Rie. Okay.

Starting Amarillo Stationery

• Okay. So we've kind of gone through the background here. And then it's, oh, I'm going to start a stationary shop. When did this thought process come in? When did you kind of have this thought that said, oh, maybe I'll do, you know, put up a little storefront on the internet and see what people think? For real, right? Like that's, it's a little adventurous to think of that little idea. It definitely started when I was doing the podcast with Jeffrey Tindiria, you know, because through that podcast, we got to meet and interview a few brands from Mexico and some of them, and you've seen what I carry. So there's just some, so there's some awesome stuff there. And I had, during that time, I was like, why isn't there more presence of them in the United States? They clearly ship over here. And there are a few stores that do carry them, like Vanessa. Yeah.
• She's got a few Apuntes notebooks. And that was surprising to see for me. But I also appreciate that, you know? Right. Um, but back to this idea of having met all these people, I started to think, well, maybe my purpose in this stationary world is to be that presence, be that kind of bridge for these brands, for these awesome products to these, uh, to the public, to the United States, you know? So it started as a really tentative idea. I was like, how would this work? Um, and I was thinking, I had just moved into this house. I have a full basement, um, that I could fill up with stationary. I'm not going to, but I could potentially, you know, you know, stock a few items and then just sell out of my home. So it started with that idea. And I, I talked to a few of the vendors, a few of the brands that they were so supportive. They're like, yeah, we'll make, we'll make it work. We'll send you whatever you need. Um, and if, if it doesn't work, then we'll, we can work something out. And so they were really, really helpful, very excited for this idea as well. And in the beginning, I went through a few name changes as well, because I thought I wanted to do something with the word desk. And then I was like, no, I don't like it. And then I knew I loved mustard yellow. So one of the first names that I thought for the shop was Amarillo Mostaza, which is a little translation in Spanish. But I was like, I think this is too much. People are not going to get what my shop is about. So I just took Mostaza off and put stationary. At least now they know it's a stationary, you know? Um, so that's how it started. And slowly, but surely, I think what this year I celebrated three years of business and, um, yeah, it's still honestly, uh, uh, a work in progress. Every, every day is a learning day. Uh, every show I learned something, you know? So yeah, it's something I never saw myself doing, but I'm kind of glad I'm doing it. And I'm even more, um, happy and just appreciative of the reception of my shop and of my purpose here. So that's, that's been really nice to see. And that's what obviously, you know, getting to know you over the years, that's been like the biggest, you know, aside from you're just an awesome human being is that you were trying to tell a story with this brand and put in the work that had to be very challenging to like find, discover, curate, make sure all of the regional based stationary items all under one roof, you know, if you will.
• Um, yeah. What were, what were some of the challenges about getting like, say like your initial like set up with getting the right amount of brands and, you know, telling the right stories and sharing these stories? Like, I, I can't imagine that was, that, that was simple. I mean, we don't get into this because it's easy, but like, like you, I'm sure you loved, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm sure you love doing it. But like, I, I sit here and look, knowing about retail, like I do, this could not have been easy.
• Yeah. It was definitely a huge learning curve. Right. Um, I think I knew, I knew the, the top, like, what is it? Five brands that I wanted to carry. I wanted to have a Puntes notebooks because they're just some of the most beautiful notebooks I have seen. I wanted to, to have the brand blue star crafts because they just do some amazing, amazing work. And at that time, Monarcha stationary had just freshly launched as a brand and with their first incline. So I was like, this is perfect because if I open a shop, like a store, um, well, a shop, uh, then I can carry them as well. And so I reached out to them and then I reached out to a leather brand. And then I had also seen this whole pencil company from Mexico. And I also reached out to them and then like washi tape, uh, and a few other things, but yeah, it, it was also trying to figure out like, what is the correct stock? You know, how much should I, you get it. How much should I carry? You will never answer that question. Satisfactorily. No, no. And you know what? My very first pen show, cause I had, uh, I had opened or launched Amarillo in 2022 of February, February, 2022. And my first pen show was the Chicago pen show in May of that same year. So I was, you know, new, I had ordered, I think so much stationary Brad for that pen show.
• And it was a little ridiculous. Now looking back at it, um, I can show you a picture, but I have, my table is stacked with fountain pen ink. You can barely see me behind the stack of ink. Um, but yeah. And then needless to say, I came back home with a lot of it, right? Because it was just, I had so much. And then I learned, I was like, okay, maybe just take, you know, 20 of each color, not the ridiculous amount that I took. But yeah, that was a huge learning curve. And of course, like setting up the website because I'm doing it all. I'm doing, I'm designing the website. I'm setting up a little, um, shipping website as well. Like what are my fees going to be getting the boxes? You know, I, at first I only had one box and one of the critiques. I had because somebody bought like one thing of washi tape was that I used that box. I'm like, well, this is the box that I have. I can't, you know, I can't just carry all the box sizes, but I get it. And eventually I did get like three or four different boxes. Yeah. But at that time, all I could afford was like one size and it was huge. And this is not your full-time job. Like this is, you know, you're doing this on top of your job. Yeah. So I, I learned from the critiques, of course, like I, every, every comment or every complaint is a learning lesson. Um, so I was gracious for that because otherwise I wouldn't have probably thought about it until like much later and realized that I probably should get a smaller box because I'm making it cumbersome for the post person, you know, um, I'm making it cumbersome for the person receiving it. And for me, cause I'm wasting all this space. So, yeah, I was going to put you on the spot, which is always, it's very unfair for, for no, for me to put retailers on the spot, say, Hey, tell me your favorite brand that you carry. So I'm going to tell you my favorite brand that you carry now. Or that was the biggest, uh, surprise for me. And I had already pulled the page up before you said the name. I love the blue star craft stuff. Like it is really, I love the fabric pen trays. That's like my jam, but like they have the other accessories, like the ink accessories and the pallets and all the little boxes and the wood type accessories. But y'all, I'm telling you like the, the, the fabrics on, uh, on their trays and they have different size trays, the little baby size tray. I couldn't, I was like, I'm never going to use this tray. And then that's like the most used one. Right. Cause the pen will just sit in the big tray and like, that's fine. I can find all kinds of different stuff to put in the, in the tray. So are there, are there any like cool discovery stories like that? Did you ever, did you stumble across anything? It's like, wow, this is new and you know, have to, have to start carrying this or figure out how to start carrying this. Yeah. Well, honestly, in my like discovery of like, of, uh, Mexican brands specifically, uh, I discovered furniture brands that are just insane. I don't think I will, um, I will be close to carrying furniture, but you know, eventually maybe down the road when I open a physical shop and that's kind of a future goal, then I can have the, the physical store be some sort of showroom for those items, you know, and it would be a special kind of order, but yeah, blue star crafts is just knocking it out of the park every time. Like they're one of my favorite brands. And that was one of the ones that I really wanted. And they were very open. They're so easy to work with, but the challenge is that they're always creating something new. So I'm kind of always behind because by the time I place my order and by the time I get it, they're already launching the next thing that I don't have. Right. Right. But no, they, they, they do awesome work. And I, if I could carry one of every item that they have, well, at least 10 of every item I could. And I, there are some items that I have that I, I don't carry in the shop, but I probably should. But one of my favorites is like the, I don't know if you've seen them, but they have a, a lamp that's like this in your nightstand. And it's also a little pen tray. Super cool. I do carry them. I do have two here in stock. And I'm thinking about keeping them. I was going to say.

Growth and Custom Products for Amarillo Stationery

• Yeah. They do awesome work. Yeah. That's, that's really cool. I love looking at that. So, you know, over the past few years, I've definitely watched the brand grow, the Amarillo stationery grow. And you started to branch out, you were starting to make some custom products, like some custom inks. What was kind of the concept where the Pannonia inks, the first ones you decided to, to get custom made. So tell me a little bit about those, because while Pannonia is not necessarily, not a Mexican brand, your concept was to, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but to tell different stories that were important to you that related to the whole idea of Amarillo stationery. Because, so can you tell me about that? Because those are some of my favorite projects you've done. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for that. Well, and, you know, first, before I address that, the, I'm every day, I'm trying to expand a little bit more of Amarillo stationery and what that would be. And I have decided that while it will focus on Latin American stationery, I will also branch out and offer additional things. So for now, I'm even like offering Kakimori stuff. Yeah. And that's from Japan. Absolutely. So, so yeah, slowly, because I think I will, I will get to that point where I need to branch out. But as far as the inks, I knew I wanted to have something exclusive. And at that point, I didn't, I know Monarca was busy with their own stuff. So I reached out to Pannonia because I had seen that Pannonia had done collaborations with, with people in Spain, people in the U S as well. I think the mic is one of them. Yeah. Yeah.
• Independence mic. So I was like, let me reach out and see, see what the deal is about and see, you know, is it doable for me? And it worked out. It worked out for me and I knew I could give it a name. So I started with the pink, what I call Rosa Mexicano, the pink ink. Uh, and so slowly I started with another ink. So the next one was Azul Frida. And I, that was probably, that's probably one of my favorites just because it's kind of a gender bending type of thing. It's a blue ink. I'm going to stop you right there. Can you explain to me why Azul Frida is maybe one of my favorite inks ever? I don't understand. It's so good. I mean, beside the story, but like the story is the, is the bonus. Yeah. But that color, anyone, I'm having a hard time describing it because it's just blue. Right. There's something different about that one. Yeah. I can't explain it. Yeah. There's a little bit of purple in the ink as well. That's maybe also what is adding to the depth of it. Uh, but yeah, it's just so good. And mate did amazing mixing the colors for me. Yeah. That's one of my favorites. Yeah. And then, well, in the third one, what was the third one? The, uh. Amarillo Antiguo, which is a yellow color. Because I had done two inks that were so like Mexico centric, um, I wanted, because I Latin American focused, I wanted to expand a little to beyond Mexico. And so I looked for, I knew I wanted to have a, like a magenta, a blue and a yellow ink for possibly mixing. So I knew I wanted a yellow color. So I just needed to find the inspiration. And then I, I was inspired by Guatemala. They have the, oh, the, the name is escaping me right now, but this famous structure in Guatemala in, in Antigua, Antigua Guatemala. So that's why the color is Amarillo Antigua. Uh, and yeah, they were, as I said, they kind of worked together and I kind of liked how it was like one at a time. And then when they all came together, it was like, oh, makes sense. It does. It does. And if y'all have, I'm going to have plenty of links to, to Eric's shop and, uh, Eric's artwork, but you always do the right, really cool ink sample spreads. Like, like, is that called anything? Like, so you basically kind of like smash the ink in the pages and it makes like a, uh, you know, it mimics each other on the side, on each side of the page, but it just looks so cool. Yeah. So the, the, the main inspiration for that are the Rorschach images, right? But, um, the first person I saw doing it was Angie, our friend Angie in Australia. Yes. She's in Australia. And I saw that she had done a swatch or some type of image doing that same type of thing, but I took it, I borrowed the idea and took it further by applying it to a full spread, um, and then writing over it. And that was just magic to me. And when you do that with a shimmery ink with sheen, it's just, the results are just out of this world. Yeah. So that's now that's my favorite way of swatching and it's just so fun. Plus you're using your notebooks, you're using all of it. Like most of the paper you're using your inks, but my secret is to use a, like, uh, an insulin syringe. Okay. Because that will give you the thinnest amount of like a liquid stream. Okay. Otherwise you're putting down so much ink on the notebook and it's just going to be a mess. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Okay. I like it. I like it. Uh, but no, I just, I love that photography and that aesthetic. And that's like, like I know, oh, that's Eric. That's Eric. Yeah.
• It's so good. It's a fun time. Yeah. So recently you've come up with a full new set of inks and even more, even more than inks. So I can tell like your brain is working overtime, right? As far as like Amarillo goes, no, like you like, okay, it's a lot to start this business, right? And then, you know, you know, hopefully things are, you're going well to like start thinking about, okay, what's the next thing. And it's like, oh, maybe I want to make some inks that we carry. And it's now like, I really want to put my own stamp on it is where I think we're at now is where like, like Eric's Eric's like putting your stuff out there, right? Like we're getting there now. So tell everyone about kind of the latest adventures you've been on with ink and other merch. Yeah. Well, and before I had to do my, well, before I started my inks, I needed a refresh, right? Cause I think you remember my initial branding and I just knew back to how that started. It was kind of rushed in that sense. So I grabbed a friend who helped me with a logo and colors, but I wanted something different. So thankfully I worked with an awesome design studio in Mexico who did my branding and they mocked it up because you probably agree. Yeah. It's some of the best out there, like easy.
• And that's what opened the door to like all these other possibilities, because now I have what I think is like one of the coolest brands, the stationary brands, like the little logo, the little guy, the mascot. And I'm like, well, now I think it's time for, for more. So first I started with rickshaw. Now I have like this cool guy, super fun little guy. And those rickshaw items are so, so fun. And what was next was actually, and I, I think I talked to you about this last time, but like I wanted to have notebooks, but I'm kind of happy. I held off on that because of the whole paper mess that's going on. So I was like, well, there goes that idea. Yeah. So what else can we, can we, can we do? And that's when like, I was like, well, maybe I can have my own brand of inks. And honestly, that's probably been my longest project ever because I don't know if I showed you my ink samples at the last Chicago pen show, but I had samples of my current inks then. So over a year ago. So that idea has been brewing for over a year.

Challenges in Ink Production and Packaging

• And I reached out to a, an ink maker who does the inks for me. Cause I don't, I don't make the actual liquid. I just bottle at home and they were just very, very easy to work with.
• And we went back and forth on the colors of samples and everything. And the biggest challenge of course is sourcing your bottles and like, you know, designing the packaging and like measuring and the labels. And that was probably the most challenging thing out of the whole project. But also the most fun. So yeah, now I have my, my three little inks. I do have like a, just like a love hate relationship with my current labels, just because, you know, between us, you and I, and the listeners, I was kind of rushing that as well. And I had to work with what I had, you know, I, I doodled with the inks and then I went to the library to scan the, the, the doodles, but then the colors didn't come out correctly, but I didn't have Photoshop to edit the colors. So like, it is what it is, or, or I will sit on these inks for like three more months because I had the liquid, I had the bottles, I had everything. I was just waiting on the art. And to be honest, I was very inspired by Birmingham pen companies labels. I wanted to have something as fun as what they're doing with every color has a different, just beautiful image. But I was like, I don't think I can afford that right now. So I'll do it on my own. Yeah. It will be what it will be. And, you know, I, I will forgive myself. And then later on, I will probably do a, a relaunch of the inks with a different label, but I just wanted to get them out there because they were, they were just too good to just be sitting. They really are. They, they really are. And I was sitting here thinking like, number one, this is the, the joys of running a small business. Right. But like, you know, just for you to put out that ink bottle and I'm sure I'm going to leave something off. Right. Like you have, you have the ink, right? You have the liquid. You have to source the bottle. You have to source the box. You have to make sure that they fit together. There's a label on the bottle. There's a color sticker for each color. And then there's, um, artwork for the boxes. And then you have to figure out how to ship them. And this is just for one ink. Right. And then you just, so like, and I'm sure I've left some, one of those pieces out, but like. You forgot the cap. Oh, and the cap. The cap is separate. Yeah. You got it. And you got to make sure, oh, does the cap seal correctly? When I shipped these across, like, like all of this stuff to get one ink out and like, like, why can't you go faster, Eric? Why?
• No, believe me. I was so like just getting frustrated because when I finally had the, the actual liquid, the ink at home, I was like, okay, I'm ready to go. Let me order my, my bottles. And by that time I had already sampled different bottles, different, you know, so I went to order them and they were back ordered. So I'm like, well, here we go. That was in May of last year. And then three months go by and I still haven't heard anything about like when they're going to get new, like stock. And I finally reached out to them. Like, Hey, will you guys let me know? Like, do you anticipate having these again? Or should I just look for something else? They're like, oh no, yeah, they're here. So I somehow they didn't, they didn't tell me, they didn't let me know. So I ordered the bottles and then it was another month of waiting for me to actually do it because everything was here again. And thankfully in December, I had like a whole week off because each color took me four or five hours to fill package label and get ready to, to send out, to ship out. Yeah. So we're going to have a link in the show notes, all the Amarillo vibes stuff. So tell me last thing and then we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll close it out here pretty soon, but I got to know about the Amarillo vibes colors and like the name, the naming, like, because like, this is just some of the coolest names. So what was the, what was the whole concept behind here? And y'all will see this in the, in the show notes. I will have this in the, in the show notes. Y'all need to go check this out. Well, thank you, Brad. Yeah. So I knew I, again, with, with working with this graphic design team in Mexico, I have a whole, uh, manual with my colors, with my branding. So I have my primary color palette, which is the, the mascots colors. And then I have a secondary color palette, which I use randomly on my, uh, Instagram. So I looked at the first color palette, the, at the mascot. I'm like, well, I think I want colors of, of each of those, those colors. I need inks in those colors. So that was the inspiration, basically the, the, the mascot. And then, you know, I still didn't have names for them. I was coming up with the concept and I talked to a few friends. They're like, what if, what if you do a beach? What if you do something? I'm like, no, like that's just not vibing with me. So eventually I started using Amarillo vibes to describe this little mug that I'm showing you that I probably show a lot of my Instagram as well, which is full of stickers. And I was like, these are Amarillo vibes. This is like the vibe of my store. So eventually through that year, just when I figure out, uh, I came out, came up with this Amarillo vibes concept and the concept turned out to be the mascot. And so I just, all of the names relate back to what he's wearing, his little pants, his little shoes, what I call a belt, which is the equator. Cause I didn't want to call the equator. So instead we have teal waistband, right? For the waist and a blue suntan for, for the globe and orange kicks, which I should have, I should have worn my, uh, orange kicks today. I wore them yesterday. I should have done that today. And then we have toasty joggers, which is just brilliant. Like it's just freaking great. They're fun. I mean, you get to make something and then smile about it and have fun doing it. Exactly. That's a lot of it. Right. Like I, that's the way I feel about it. Product creation and design and things like that and getting to have fun. And also, you know, Oh, by the way, we're going to, we would like to sell some of the products too. Right. Let's be clear, be clear. Like where, you know, we'd like to sell some too, but it's just, I just love everything about what you're doing at Amarillo. So what's, uh, what's next? What have you been working on for a year already? That's like another year out, like any, any, any fun stuff. You don't have to spill all the beans, but you know, if I can pry something out of you, I'll take it. Honestly. Yeah. Well, I have had my notebook designs for two years now. Yeah. I'm just waiting for that to settle and just to let's find some common ground here. What are we doing? Well, you know, we can do a whole episode on, on just like on just paper and like building a notebook. Yeah. So that's, that's sitting in the background. I have that ready to go. Um, but I think the next thing I need to work on is just washi tapes just because I already have a second. Like ink line working. I, my samples arrived. Oh, okay. But I just need to test them out and give some feedback and whatever. And I think I also have a concept settled for that. So I look, that'll be more toward the end of the year, probably. Oh, and I have a Christmas ink in mind, but I only have the name. I don't have the color yet.
• That's where I'm at. People want my next ink. I was like, I've got some good names, but I haven't settled on the colors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if anybody has like Christmas ink suggestions, a Latin American stationary shop, let me know because I can give you the name. The name is the least Navidad.
• I think it goes perfectly with what I'm trying to do here. Yes. Which is like fun stuff. Exactly. But I just, I just need an ink color. Like, what would that look like? You know, I don't want to repeat what everybody has done for Christmas or any existing colors. Um, we just don't want to add more. We just want to enhance our stationary. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So I love it. All right. So last thing, uh, show schedule. You, uh, are you doing Chicago again this year? Yes. Yes. So in actually a week and a half, um, I will be doing the Chicago stationary fest. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. That'll be my first show. And then I have the Chicago pen show. I have this in Louis pen show. I have San Francisco for the very first time and then Orlando. So I'll be booked and busy this year. I love it. I love it. So I got to figure out where I'm going to see you out on the road, man. That's not going to Chicago. Not coming to Chicago this year. Um, just cause I have a crazy, crazy busy April leading into that. So I'll, I'll be just like toast. I'll be toasty joggers. Uh, then, um, Orlando is very much in play right now. Probably not San Francisco. Um, but I will be up in your area in August at the, uh, Atlas, uh, sidewalk event. Uh, well, I may see you here then. So you might see me before then. Uh, but you will see me online for sure. And everyone can find you online anywhere you want to shout out besides the shop. And I'll have you on Instagram, all the links in there. Anything else you want to shout out? Um, I have a little YouTube channel that I like to every once in a while post a little video. I mean, they may not be the best quality, but I entertain myself and may entertain a few others. So there's that. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. So I'll have all those links in the show notes. Uh, and that's a wrap for this week's episode. You're the best, Eric. I miss seeing you in person, but it's always wonderful to talk to you. So until next time, say goodbye, Eric. Goodbye, Eric.
• Bye.