The Pen Addict 64/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	64
Title:	Johnny Anypen
Release Date:	July 23rd, 2013
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 64
Audio File:	Audio Episode 64
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 64
Length:	6868 min <br />1.133 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast

Myke Hurley: Hello and welcome to The Pen Addict podcast. This is episode 64. The Pen Addict podcast is part of the 5x5 Network, and it is a weekly show where we discuss pens, paper, and the analogue tools that we love so dearly. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined today by a man who came from the future, back to the present, day to day, to tell us how we are using pens and paper wrong. That is Mr. Brad Dowdy. Good afternoon, spaceman.

Brad Dowdy: Good afternoon, sir. Wow, that's pressure. Telling people how they should use their pens and paper, that's pressure. Although, I do get wrapped up in that sometimes. I've got to be careful with that, don't I?

Myke Hurley: We have an interesting episode today. We know what we're talking about. Well, I know, but I don't think either of us know how this conversation is going to unfold today.

Brad Dowdy: That's exactly right. And I'm actually, two days ago, I didn't know what we were going to talk about. And now, between two days ago and now, I'm like, I couldn't wait for this episode to get started.

Myke Hurley: Yes, I have been very excited for today's episode of the show. More for our second part. Yes. Not to take away from anything in the first part. No. But I am unaware of the first part. So, why don't you jump in for some follow-up?

Big Box Retailers

Brad Dowdy: Yes. So, last week, we talked about the big box retailers and the state of the big box retailers. And, you know, I just had some more comments on that topic. And one of the most excellent emailers I have, a gentleman named Theodore Liu. Theo sends me these epic-length emails that are always fantastic, always well thought out. And he always brings up some good points. And I wanted to – Myke's looking at the set of notes I took from his email. That's about a third of his email. This is about four paragraphs full.

Myke Hurley: Wow.

Brad Dowdy: So, I just – I kind of summarized his email. So, I want to go through this because what he says, I actually agree with 100%. So, I wanted to just read this real quick and say that, you know, make a couple comments. So, this is my summarization from Theo's email that he sent me. He said, back in the day, we used to go to Best Buy. And staring at a bank of TVs, we'd ask the sales rep, which is best. Today, an informed buyer goes online, reads reviews by experts and real customers, price compares, and goes to Best Buy prepared and likely with more knowledge than the sales rep. Pens are no different except in one crucial respect. Not that many people research their pen purchases. It's by and large a purely functional, disposable purchase. I think we're a small segment of the population than we might realize. All this is to say, at the end of the day, the big box stores don't really want our patronage. They won't cater to us because they know at the end of the day, the small percentage of pen-obsessed customers will go out and find and buy what they want. They also know it means we'll eventually stop buying from the big boxes because they can't keep up with our appetite for pens. In fact, why would they carry a pen like the Sino DX when it could turn someone into a pen addict who would eventually, inevitably, find their fix elsewhere? No, they'd rather carry and push their house brand because it has a slightly higher profit margin. It's the same for all enthusiasts. Hardcore runners don't buy sneakers at Dick's or Academy Sports. Foodies don't buy groceries at Walmart and audiophiles don't frequent Best Buy. It's fine by me. I just know I'm not their target. I'd rather patronize Jetpins, the Goulais, the Andersons, etc. anyways.

Myke Hurley: I think that was kind of the conclusion that we came to.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I think I was hanging on to the fact that why don't the big box retailers try? Why don't they at least try? Or why don't the manufacturers, the pilots, Uniball, Zebras and stuff, why don't they try to expand their stock or their SKUs in the stores? And, you know, I'm not expecting them to do everything to get all the great stuff in. But I guess I was just feeling, you know, more people. I guess I just want to share our passion for pins with more people, right? So I want more people to experience these great pins that you and I use and everyone who listens to this podcast use that walks into Staples and there's not a sign of it all. But I think Theo is exactly right. I mean, I thought this was a perfect email. It's really – I agree with this 100%. I mean, it's just – it's pretty much a pipe dream to say that the big rocks retailers are going to change. They just have to have to totally change their strategy. And that's not something I expect at all. It's just, you know, a couple of points I wanted to make and, you know, why I haven't been into Staples in, you know, six or eight or nine months or something like that. So I thought it kind of hit all those – he summarized what I was trying to say very well. He did a good job there. And I think he's right and it's probably never going to change. And, you know, all of us that, you know, are pin addicts, you know, we're going to shop at the places we know we can get all the good stuff and more for us, I guess, right?

Myke Hurley: Bravo, Mr. Lou.

YouTube Video

Brad Dowdy: You did a great job. Now, one – I actually forgot this next topic on last week's episode. It totally blanked on me because it was a follow-up from Anna Reiner from The Well-Appointed Desk when she was on two episodes ago. And we were talking about the TWSBI mini and, you know, how to get ink out of vials into the piston filling mechanism. And I said I used my TWSBI mini with a syringe and she was kind of shocked at that. So she went and took hers, took her TWSBI and, you know, just doing the, you know, the steps that I take to fill mine. She went and did a great, great, great tutorial of filling this.

Myke Hurley: Everyone would have heard something really weird then. I was queuing up a show note link and heard a noise. And it was a YouTube video and a noise happened.

Brad Dowdy: A noise happened. You were getting ahead of it. Yes. That's funny. I didn't hear it. I was too busy jabbering. But Anna did a great job. Did you go look at this – did you get a chance to look at this post?

Myke Hurley: I'm looking at it right now.

Brad Dowdy: This is exactly what I do. And people who always talk about syringe filling and, you know, Anna wasn't even aware of how easy this is to syringe fill. And that's why I use my TWSBI mini for ink tests because I can get the ink in and out with a syringe, get it cleaned up and swapped into a new ink. And, you know, five to ten minutes. So if I'm going to do four ink reviews, I can get those done in an hour or two. That includes cleaning, you know, and going into a new ink. So it's a very simple process. And I wanted to share this because I forgot to last week because she did it right after our episode. And it's so simple. It's really one of the easiest – I mean, TWSBI piston fillers are one of the easiest pins to fill anyway. When you have a bottle of ink, you know, just dip the nib in and use the piston filler mechanism to suck up the ink and wipe it off and you're good to go. Well, when you have ink sample vials like a lot of us do, you know, from the Goulet's or anyone else who sells ink samples, it's hard with a piston filler to suck that ink up in the small sample vial. So the TWSBI just screws apart in the middle. You get your syringe, fill it from the vial, and stick it right there in the pin barrel, the hole in the pin barrel. Fill it up, screw the nib back on, and you're ready to write. I mean, it's really, really easy. It's kind of a no-brainer task. And she did a great job of putting it in pictures and steps. And, you know, it's really easy. And I want to make sure that we mention that because I love the link that she – I love the post that she put together on that because that is what I do all the time. So when people ask, you know, this is a prime example of syringe filling a piston filler pen. So it is wonderful. So did you ever get any syringes, Myke? Did you ever go down to the corner and come up with any syringes?

Myke Hurley: No, but I've had a few people, I think, send me some links, like, to a bunch of stores that you can get syringes from. Cool. I believe – see, this is the worst thing now is I now can't remember where I got the – I think I got link – Goulet. People keep sending me links to Goulet's site. I believe there was somewhere in the UK as well.

Brad Dowdy: There was. I remember someone copied me on that tweet, and I can't remember what it was. But, yeah, I get mine from Goulet pins. And there's – you'll stumble on it on one of the vendors for sure. Yeah. For sure. All right. So now I'm going to click that link that you did, and I'm probably going to make a sound too. Let me see how quick I can pause it. Oh, I got it. Oh, did you hear it?

Myke Hurley: No.

Brad Dowdy: Heard a little burp. Okay. So this next link, somehow in all these episodes of the Pen Addict Podcast, I have never linked, I don't think, to a video of Stephen Brown. If y'all aren't familiar with Stephen Brown, and most of the fountain pen enthusiasts are, he has this YouTube channel. And he is just – he's got 380 videos so far. He does pen reviews, ink reviews, all kinds of fountain pen stuff. And he's also part of the FPGeeks.com website. He does reviews on there. I may have linked to one of his ink reviews in the past. I know on my site I have. But Stephen does a great job. He's very thorough. He's very funny. He does a good job. He's very passionate about pens. He knows everything there is to know. And 380 videos into it, he published one this week called Goat Pens, the Greatest of All Time Fountain Pens. It's a 47-minute video where he goes through his top 20 fountain pens. And it's a really, really cool list. If you listen to this podcast, you're going to know the majority of these pens. And if you listen to this podcast and read the blog and see the rest of the pens that you've never heard of, you will be educated and learned like I was by watching Stephen's video and learning about these great new pens. As he's talking about them, I'm searching them on the internet. You know, some of these ones that I've never heard of.

Fountain Pens

Brad Dowdy: It's a fantastic list. It's got a lot of the ones that we talk about all the time. Just, you know, Platinum Preppy, Kaweco Sport, Lamy Safari, Twisby Diamond 580, you know, the Pilot Vanishing Point, the Lamy 2000. And it's got all the classics in there.

Brad Dowdy: Out of that entire list, his number one pen, it's actually, if you look at the, well, and we'll have all these links in the show notes. You guys know that. But I'm looking at a list of the pens that he went down. He started backwards. And with the number 20 pen first, which was the Platinum Preppy, all the way down to the number one pen. It's a pen I had never heard of or seen. But when I went and looked at it, Myke, it's fascinating. So you need to go look at the Visconti Opera Crystal. And he says it's with a mosquito filler. You have to see this filling system on this pen. I have never seen anything like it before. And it's quite amazing. And now I want it. It's a very expensive pen. And I'll explain while Myke's going to look up the link. But basically, it's a two-compartment ink reservoir in the pen. Okay? So say you're holding the pen. The larger reservoir towards the back end of the pen is basically your bulk filling section. Your large quantity of ink is going in there. And I think it's – I don't know if it's a twist that makes the change. But you hold the pen like in the writing position. You twist the bottom of the pen like where the section and the grip is. And that loads the bottom reservoir to get the ink into the writing position. So the nib and the feed will start getting ink to write. And when you're done, you can reverse the process. You stick the nib up in the air. You twist it. And the ink flows back into the main reservoir. Twist it again. And you seal it off. So the ink's protecting you from leaking.

Brad Dowdy: It's fascinating. So there's two pens? Hmm?

Myke Hurley: Is it two pens? I'm a bit confused. No. Oh, no. There's just two pens in this link that I'm looking at.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah. It's one pen. So like the back end of it is a bulk ink reservoir. And you twist the front of it. And the ink flows down into the writing section.

Myke Hurley: Have you got a good link for this? I found one on Fountain Pen Network. But it's just showing images. And it's not really helping me.

Brad Dowdy: Well, Stephen's video is really the best because he shows the ink moving back and forth.

Myke Hurley: So people should look at that. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Well, he's got an individual link to that specific pen.

Myke Hurley: Oh, really?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I'll put that in the show notes too. It's hard to explain because I've never seen anything before like that. Whoops.

Brad Dowdy: It's, you know, Stephen talked about it being great for airplanes and stuff. Because you just reverse the ink back into the main compartment of the pen. And, whoa, there you go. Yeah, there you go. That's from Stephen's intro. Yeah. And you're protected from it linking. It's, I had never seen this. I don't know how I've never seen this pen. It's really cool. But it's, yeah, it's hard to explain. So go check out the links. Go check out Stephen's videos. But it's basically a sectioned off fountain pen to where you can move the ink between the sections when you're, when the pen's not in use and when the pen's in use. So it's, it was a great idea. It's a very expensive pen. I think it's around $500 or $600. But despite the fact that it does all these weird ink things, I thought it looked really cool, too. So.

Myke Hurley: Very, very, very nice looking.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So anyway, check out Stephen's videos. Make sure you have a lot of time because not only is this a long video, once you watch this, you're going to want to go watch the rest of Stephen's videos. And like I said, there's 380 of them. So subscribe to his YouTube channel. Watch his videos. If you want to learn about fountain pens and just learn some of the terminology, just watch two or three of his videos. And he just, he talks about everything. He's very thorough. And you will learn a lot from watching Stephen's videos. So be sure to check that out. All right, mate. You got any, you got any follow-up you, you need to go through?

Myke Hurley: Nothing.

Brad Dowdy: You don't want to talk about his Bradness that was born yesterday? His Bradness of, Bradness of Penmanshire? We don't need to cover that?

Myke Hurley: Is that what we're calling him? He hasn't got a name yet. Well, the Prince of Cambridge. No, no, no.

Brad Dowdy: He does have a name. They've been emailing me trying to clear the authorization to use that name. So it's in discussion right now.

Myke Hurley: You're just, yeah, all right. What are you asking for? What's your, what's your bounty?

Brad Dowdy: I want, uh, I want a pen that says, welcome, royal baby. That probably already is. Yeah, I want one of those floaty pens with a little baby floaty. So when I turn it upside down, you know, he swims around.

Myke Hurley: I haven't really got anything to say.

Brad Dowdy: Are you going to be able to do the ad read now?

Myke Hurley: Of course, Brad.

Squarespace

Brad Dowdy: I am an absolute professional. All right. Well, I'll let you do that. I'll stop monkeying around because I know the next topic is what we want to get to and spend the meat of the show talking about today. So you're the man. Go for it.

Myke Hurley: This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. The only one platform that makes it easy to create your own website for a free trial and 10% off. Go to squarespace.com and use the offer code Tally Ho. Squarespace is constantly updating their platform with new features, designs, and fantastic support. They have beautiful designs for you to start with and tons of style options for you to adjust so you can create your own space online. Squarespace take care of everything. Hosting, SEO, site optimization. So it's going to look fantastic on any device. They have responsive web design built into their templates so their sites look fantastic no matter what device people are coming to your website from. It's incredibly easy to use, but if you need any help, Squarespace has a great support team that work 24 hours a day, seven days a week. While you go to squarespace.com to sign up for your free trial, you want to check out their new homepage. It's got some really great videos and it shows you all of the different things that you can do with Squarespace. So they have loads of different people from loads of different industries and how they're using Squarespace to create their brands and their identity and their place online. You can try Squarespace for free, as I mentioned earlier. And if you decide to purchase, Squarespace's plan start at $8 a month and they include a domain name if you sign up for a year and make sure you get 10% off and help support this show by using the offer code Tallyho. That's T-A-L-L-Y-H-O. So go check out Squarespace, everything that you need to create an exceptional website. Thank you to Squarespace for their support, The Pen Addict and 5x5. Something extra this week, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, cool.

Myke Hurley: I want listeners to send in to me links to their Squarespace sites. So if you are a listener and you have created a site on Squarespace, send them in to me. Say that you are a listener of The Pen Addict. You have created a site with Squarespace. Please say that you listen to The Pen Addict. And what would be even better if you've used it to create a site where you show off your pens and that sort of stuff. Or like me and Brad have our field notes collection. So maybe you've done that. I will collect some in and in some future episodes, we'll feature some of the websites that our listeners have created.

Brad Dowdy: Man, that's a fantastic idea. How do you want them to send them to you?

Myke Hurley: Any way they please. Twitter or email. So Twitter, imike, I-M-Y-K-E. Or go to mikehurley.net slash contact and you can send me an email there.

Brad Dowdy: Great. It wasn't my idea.

Myke Hurley: I have to say it came from little Ryan over at Squarespace.

Brad Dowdy: That's a great idea. I really like that. I like it too.

Myke Hurley: That's why I think it's fun.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I want to discover more sites and like to see how other people use Squarespace to give me some ideas on how to use it better myself. So that's always a good thing.

Brad Dowdy: All right. So what are we going to talk about today?

Brad Dowdy: I don't know. I think we both know very well. And I think all of our Twitter followers know very well. And I've been getting a million questions about this just in the past week, maybe. It's kind of ramped up. But we are going to talk about the Visionaire, which is a pin that is being kickstarted right now.

Myke Hurley: So this started out from hearing you on app.net, didn't it? Okay.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. That was probably a week ago. I got the first question. And I don't have it pulled up. I don't have that piece pulled up in front of me. But yeah.

Myke Hurley: I found the tweet or the post on app.net. It was from Chase McCoy. This is how I first found out about it. This is three days ago. And he sent us a link to this Kickstarter project for the Visionaire. I went on, watched the video and immediately backed it. Told him I backed it. And then things started to unfold. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And I think he didn't say specifically. I guess he was still in the thinking about it stage.

Myke Hurley: And then he hadn't. He hadn't backed. He said that this was going to be his first pen project. If he did, I backed before even he did.

Brad Dowdy: Right. That's right. He said this is going to be his first one. And then what? Six or seven hours later, I woke up and started checking my feeds. Was that about the timing of it?

Brad Dowdy: It was something like that anyway. I like that. So I woke up. I started poking through it. And I had seen it before. I was fully aware of it. But I didn't really pay it any mind. I didn't give it a second thought. And then I started really looking at it more. Reading all the descriptions. Watching the videos. And checking out all the comments and other things on it. And I had some real concerns about this pen. And I just said generally as much as it basically looked just like a Chinese manufactured pen. That's a dime a dozen type of pen. Did bring anything new to the table. Didn't look new, unique. Didn't look visionary.

Brad Dowdy: And so that was my comment. And I left it at that. And Chase was like, okay, thanks for your input. But, you know, he said I'll probably pass. And you said you backed it. And we just kind of went from there. We kind of left it at that.

Brad Dowdy: And then I started getting more questions about it.

Brad Dowdy: Some questions came up on Twitter asking me about it. So then I really started looking at it. And I have some legitimate concerns about it.

Brad Dowdy: God, what's the best way to jump off on this, Myke?

Pen Design Concerns

Brad Dowdy: Let me tell you what I think. How about that? And just kind of a big picture. What I believe this is. What I believe it isn't. And then we'll just kind of jump off from there. So one thing. Let's get this out the way real quick. There's people that are tossing around the word scam. Around this Kickstarter project. I don't believe for one second this is a scam project. And by scam I mean that, you know, you're going to pledge your money. And the money is going to vanish. And you're not going to get a product. I don't think for a second. I think this is a legitimate pen that's being manufactured.

Brad Dowdy: That said. I think there are so many red flags around the manufacturer of this pen. One. That I don't know that even at $37. Which is the. Well, that pledge level is gone. And we're going to talk about that more too. Right now it's $45 you can get it at. I don't think it's a good value. And the reasons why are very, very long. But let's start with the founder of the project.

Brad Dowdy: Boy, I'm blanking on his name. I think it's Malcolm. Oh, sorry. Morgan. Morgan. Morgan is the guy behind the BHG design. And so what Morgan did was he came up with this whole project around this Visionaire pen. And if nothing else, Morgan is a brilliant marketer.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. That's what I mean. I watched the video and pledged.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I mean, he kills the project page of the Visionaire pen. The video is extraordinarily well done. His writing is very well done. He hits.

Brad Dowdy: He's got the magic as far as the marketing goes. Okay. So I think that's why a lot of people got in on this pen. If you start. If you look at some of the original comments, people are saying, this is my first fountain pen. This is going to be my first fountain pen. I've never used a fountain pen before, but I'm backing this. You know, that's kind of a recurring theme right in the beginning, right? It's people who don't have any fountain pen experience and are looking at this, seeing it's a good deal. And the way he is marketed and compares it to other high-end pens and things like that.

Brad Dowdy: He really, he sells the heck out of this pen on this project page. He does a killer job. If he's not in marketing, he should be. Because that's the best thing about this project page by far. So then this project starts to get some traction. And some people with more fountain pen experience start to get involved. They start backing it. And they're happy with it. And then they start just asking general questions. Where's the pen being manufactured? What's the nib material made from? You know, all kinds of different, like, physical spec-type questions. What's the material of the pen?

Brad Dowdy: Things like that. And Morgan is not doing a good job answering those questions. He is answering around those questions without answering them directly. And that makes that, that's when this thing starts getting sideways a little bit. Where people are really questioning the sourcing of this pen, the design of this pen, how it's coming to be, how it's going to be manufactured. And Morgan, to his demise a little bit in this, as well as the marketing piece of this done, the customer service piece, he is not handling that well as far as answering backers' questions. So I read, there's, what, what are we at now? 383 comments already on this. And I read through them all this weekend in preparation. I knew we were going to talk about this. And it's really gone from, you know, the original comments were, I'm a new fountain pen user, to now, you know, everyone's got lots of questions about, basically, everyone's becoming very skeptical of this project. And I don't have any firsthand knowledge of this pen. I am not a backer of this pen. And what I did yesterday is I did reach out to Morgan, sent him an email through the backer page. There's a contact page. He got back to me, like, within an hour, like, really quick.

Brad Dowdy: He, you know, I said, hey, I wanted to ask him some questions or, you know, call him about this project. He got back to me. He said, yeah, I'd be happy to. We can do this over email or phone. So I sent him my phone number, told him I'm free right now. He could call me. I said, and I can also put together a list of questions that I'll send you an email, kind of, you know, the questions I have around this project. So I sent him that last night. And as of this morning, I hadn't gotten a phone call or haven't gotten any answers back to my questions. You know, it's he didn't have the longest amount of time to answer it. So I don't really fault him for that. You know, I sent it late last night at like around midnight. And as of now, he hasn't replied to my email. About 20 minutes before we started recording, Myke, he sent me a text.

Myke Hurley: Oh.

Brad Dowdy: He said, Brad, watching my kids this afternoon, we'll try to call you later today or tomorrow around five.

Myke Hurley: I think that's a really good person that he, you know.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: He's said that several times before in his other comments. I'm on my family vacation. I'm spending time with my family. That's a recurring theme, though. So it is what it is. I'm assuming I can't do anything, but assume that's true. And to his defense, I didn't send these questions till late last night anyway. So I just replied. I said, sounds good. We're recording the podcast in about 20 minutes. If you have a chance to answer those email questions beforehand, that would be great. If not, I understand.

Myke Hurley: So tell me, what are the concerns here then? Like, why are there concerns?

Brad Dowdy: The concerns are around the manufacturing of the pen, the design of the pen, what he's calling, what he designed, what pieces did he design, where it's being manufactured, and what the, basically, I think anyone with fountain pen experience is looking at this and going, where's the value? And where's the innovation? So do you want to know the questions I emailed him?

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. So reading through everything. And let me go back. Let me talk about the project a little bit more. I need to lay some more groundwork. So you watch the video. The recurring theme on the project page is Morgan Hessein. He is a, he designed, he repeatedly says he designed this pen to fit his needs and things like that. And one of the problems with him repeatedly saying that is then he comes back in the comments section when backers are questioning the design of the pen. He says, I don't have a lot of experience with fountain pens. So that's a big contradiction and a red flag to me. If you design this pen, and then on top of that, you don't have a lot of fountain pen experience. What did you design?

Pen Comparisons

Myke Hurley: So if I can jump in here, because this actually leads in quite nicely to a point that I see, I've seen a bunch of our friends and listeners mentioned today and yesterday. And I haven't, I haven't played my hand about this yet. So lots of people are mentioning that and, oh, in the video, he's using a Bic pen, you know, how can he, how can he be a pen designer? Look at Karas Customs. Dan was not a pen addict.

Brad Dowdy: No, not at all.

Myke Hurley: But designed the Render K, the Retract, the Bolt. Great pens. I don't necessarily think that, let's say that he did design this. Let's say that. I mean, I don't know. Sure. I don't know. But let's say that he did design that. I mean, he's showing renderings. Now, he doesn't need to know a lot about fountain pens. He could have designed the body, right? And then he's sourcing nib parts. Maybe he's tried a few different nibs. I don't think he necessarily, I mean, obviously, it'd be great if he knows. He knows lots about fountain pens, right? Right. But I don't think that he has to. He can just be a product designer. Because Dan is an awesome guy. And the Karas Customs stuff, the Karas Customs stuff is really awesome. But I don't think that, Dan was able to make those pens because he knows how to design great products. And he's learning more and more. And he's becoming, clearly, becoming one of us as time's going on for him. Right. I guess that, you know, I just think that you can be a product designer. And he could maybe be, I don't know. I mean, I'm putting words. I'm giving him help here, really. But he could have had somebody who he knows, who maybe knows a bit about pens and stuff like that that's helped him out. I don't know.

Brad Dowdy: Right. I actually agree with your point 100%. I have no issue with the video showing him using. I think it's a paper mate stick ballpoint to design the pen. I mean, or to, okay, let's temper that. I'm not convinced he designed anything on this pen is my point that I'm eventually going to get to. But he shows him in the video, he's sketching, you know, product designs with a ballpoint pen, you know, just a cheap paper mate. I have zero. I take no issue with that. That's not an issue at all. You know, I would expect anyone who's a designer or anything, you know, to be doing it with a pencil or whatever, just anything they find on any piece of paper they find. I don't take issue with that. At all. Where my questions arise are what did he really, really design on this pen? If you want my, let me just cut to the chase and then we can go from there.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Brad Dowdy: This is my opinion. This is me connecting the dots. This is me making a judgment on something that I don't have, admittedly, don't have the answers to. That I don't have, I don't have the pen in my hands. I haven't had a chance to talk to Morgan yet, although I'm efforting that.

Brad Dowdy: I am of the opinion that this pen is an off-the-shelf barrel, cap, nib, and converter from one of the large Chinese pen manufacturers.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Brad Dowdy: And that there's no unique design in this pen and that to use the word design in this Kickstarter project is inaccurate.

Myke Hurley: So I would like to know why you think this.

Brad Dowdy: So I put a link in the, okay, so before I get to that link, I think this because Morgan cannot answer anything about the design of the pen. He's been asked specifically. It took him days, if not more, to find anything out about the nib of this pen because he marketed it on the page, on the project page, as a German nib. It's a Chinese nib that he finally had to come and put in the fact that it's actually a Chinese nib. One of the readers sent the, one of the backers in the comment section sent an image to one of the nib manufacturers in Germany, Bach, which we've talked about before. They said, not only is this not a German nib, we didn't make it and no other German manufacturer made it.

Brad Dowdy: And so they had to be a clarification. Morgan cannot answer any design aspects of this pen. He has a pretty picture of like a CAD drawing of a barrel. There's no dimension. It's like a, it's like something scanned in there. Like I could scan in a picture into a 3D renderer and show it on my screen. I'm not saying he didn't. That's why I want to ask him these questions. But my opinion, looking at this, it is so generic and so not unique that I don't believe he designed a single thing on this pen. That doesn't mean there's two different things. That doesn't mean at all that this is going to be a bad pen.

Brad Dowdy: What it means is I don't think this is a unique design for a pen. I don't think he came up with a brilliant new idea, designed every bit, every speck of this pen and had someone build it for him. I think he went to a manufacturer, picked out the parts, had them put together and the manufacturer is going to manufacture that pen. And that's what I think is going to happen here. And for $37, you know what? That's fine. It's a fair price. I just think it's misrepresented a little bit. You know, no one's going to get killed for $37. It's going to be a fine. It's most likely going to be a fine pen. Most Chinese pen manufacturers are very solid. They're very good. I put a link in the show notes, and I don't know if you've clicked it yet, Myke, to an eBay item.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I have.

Brad Dowdy: What do you think about that pen? So this link I sent, Myke, is by the Shanghai Hero Pen Company. They're based in China. They're the single most well-known and respected Chinese pen manufacturer. They've been around for 80 years. They sell pens. They sell good quality pens. They're known for good designs, and they're very, very cheap. So I sent Myke a link to a pen. What do you think about this pen?

Myke Hurley: So it's similar.

Myke Hurley: Let me try and understand something, right? So one of the images in his Kickstarter page is a close-up of the nib, and it says Iridium Point Germany on it, right? Right. But he's now said that it's not a German nib. Right. So it's not the nib then that he's showing in the video?

Brad Dowdy: No, it is the nib. What the nib is saying is that the tipping on the very tip of the pen is Iridium tipping.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Brad Dowdy: So, but the nib itself is not a German-manufactured nib at all.

Myke Hurley: I mean, there are similarities, but I wouldn't say, like, I'm not saying that you're saying this, but the way that they look to me, they don't look like they're the same body.

Brad Dowdy: I'm not saying this is an identical match to that pen. So I'm showing Myke a Hero pen. It's called the 369 Silver Matte Chrome Steel Fine Nib Fountain Pen. I'm not at all saying this is the exact same pen. I'm saying, in general, it looks the same. I mean, if you had these two pens on the shelf, they're going to look next to each other. They're going to look different physically, but in general, you know, dimensions look the same, nib looks the same, section looks the same, cap looks the same, clip looks the same. How much is this pen that I just sent you the link for?

Myke Hurley: $399.

Brad Dowdy: $3.99. $3.99. This is from the single largest Chinese pen manufacturer there is. The single most respected Chinese pen manufacturer there is.

Brad Dowdy: Lots of people use a lot of Hero fountain pens. This pen looks... I'm going to say it would be... If you can put these two pens together, I think they're going to be in the 75th percentile match.

Brad Dowdy: Is that fair? Sure.

Brad Dowdy: Just to the eye test.

Myke Hurley: I mean, yeah, sure, but I think that...

Brad Dowdy: So then this pen is $3.99.

Myke Hurley: Yes, it is. I'm really not sure, Brad. I'm really not sure. Because I feel like you could do this to so many pens. Like, I'm not saying that this guy has created this thing from scratch, right? But I feel like there are so many pens that you could put next to that one and be like, it's the same, like, so many Parker pens and, like, Mont Blanc pens and all sorts. And a couple of the things that made me... Right. So I'll tell you, there are two things in this video.

Brad Dowdy: Let me make one point before you go. Okay, go on. The problem is he's saying he designed this pen.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I mean, that's interesting. I don't really know how I feel about that. Because he's not just saying it, he's showing it. Right. He has CAD designs here.

Myke Hurley: So I'm not saying that they're his. I'm just saying he's showing that he has done that. Right. All right, so go ahead. The video, there are three things, actually, that made me buy this. Right towards the start, he's writing on a postcard. And the way that the ink is being distributed and the line that it's drawing looks like the sort of line that I would like. And it looks like the sort of style of nib that I enjoy. Right. It looks smooth. It looks like there's quite a thick ink being laid down. That looks like how I would like a pen to be. Right. Yep. I think the Chrome model is beautiful, whether it's a Chinese knockoff or not.

Brad Dowdy: Let's not use the term knockoff. There's a differentiation. There's Chinese pens and there's knockoff pens. Knockoff pens are bad. Chinese pens are completely fine.

Myke Hurley: I was more just poking fun at you.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. Yeah. Because I get caught up. I try to make a point of saying that because I get caught up using that term interchangeably and that is way unfair. That's an unfair comparison. And I'm the one guilty of that, not you. You're doing that, making fun of me. It's not a knockoff by any means.

Myke Hurley: It's manufactured by a large Chinese organization who manufactures at scale for very cheap. Yes. That's what it actually is. Also, right at the end of the video, he puts the cap on the pen and it looks like there is a nice thunk.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. He actually talks about that, saying that there is a nice feel to it.

Myke Hurley: Those are three things that if Twisby put their name on this and it looked like this, I'll buy it. Mm-hmm. Right? Right. So I really don't know. I do not know because, and I'll tell you why, there is lots of conjecture.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm.

Myke Hurley: Nobody can prove anything.

Brad Dowdy: Nope.

Myke Hurley: There are only so many designs you can make of a pen. Mm-hmm. You know? Right. For a pen to be functional, they kind of do, to a point, look similar. Fountain pens of this ilk. I say you could take it into a Mont Blanc shop and put it in one of the cases and it'd probably look as Mont Blanc because the next one's sitting next to it, right?

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Myke Hurley: And I don't think people would be like, hang on, that's a Chinese pen. Right. It costs $3.99. Like, I don't necessarily think that would happen. I think if you took that one that you sent to me on eBay, it would. But I think this looks nice to me, what he's showing here.

Brad Dowdy: I agree. I think anyone who backs this pen is going to get a nice pen.

Myke Hurley: But you just wonder if it's overpriced.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And I wonder about the sourcing. And I really wonder about the word design being used throughout the project. So what did you... Render... The guys at Keras Customs design a pen. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I wasn't using them.

Brad Dowdy: The guys at Big Eye Design design a pen. The guys at Bolt's Pen design a pen. I don't believe the Visionaire was designed from scratch.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Brad Dowdy: Like, he's representing.

Myke Hurley: Oh, this is such a difficult thing for me.

Brad Dowdy: But I... On the other hand, the flip side of this is, for $37, people are going to get a completely fine pen. There's not going to be anything wrong with this pen when you get it. You're going to like it. You're going to enjoy it. Actually, the writing samples that you were talking about that he did were very impressive. I thought it looked good. I was like, man, that's going to sell me on the pen. It's fine.

Myke Hurley: My $37 could be better put elsewhere. Exactly. But the other $246,590 could be fine. But me, with what I know, could be different. Right. Right. So, I don't know. I don't know what to do. I would like to... I feel like this is going to be around for a couple of weeks that we're going to be talking about this. Because I can cancel. I've got 34 days to cancel.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Right. And I'm not trying to get anyone to cancel. I mean, I think... I just think there's questions around it. One of the biggest things... Another topic... Another point in Morgan's... I don't... I think it was in the main project page, not in the comment section. He discusses how low his margin is. Did you hear that? My text go off?

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Your text is the email send nice.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, that's Morgan.

Myke Hurley: What happened to R2-D2?

Brad Dowdy: I took that off because that was a little bit annoying at work.

Myke Hurley: Oh, he's just text you now?

Brad Dowdy: Oh, Morgan's just texting me while we're recording. Man, this is an epic link test. Text. I don't want to read it out loud without... Because you don't know what it says. Without reading it first. Without reading it first. So, you read it.

Myke Hurley: Maybe I'll vamp for a moment. I'll give people an update. So, I mentioned that I have a Kickstarter pen, like I've mentioned for weeks, called The Ojohto. They contacted me and told me that it's on the way. They have very good Twitter support, actually. Me and Stuart Hasley were talking about it. Because his has arrived and he's very happy, actually, with his. And I said that mine hadn't because they... I mean, to their credit, the reason that they delayed it was because they felt like the silver pen that I had bought, that the anodization, I think, it wasn't up to their standards. So, they shipped it back and got them anodized again, which I'm sure has done at cost. So, I'm really excited. He... Stuart loves his. So, I'm really excited to get mine. So, I hope for next week's episode, I should have that pen that I've been talking about for many, many, many, many weeks now. Months, even. So, that'll be fun. So, I'll be receiving a Kickstarter award there. I'm excited to try it out. So, we'll see.

Brad Dowdy: All right. So, I scanned through this. I'm not going to read it all.

Brad Dowdy: It doesn't say too much. But he's... He's not making this easy on me. Because I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. And I do. I think...

Brad Dowdy: This is me reading between the lines. I think this has gotten out of hand. I think this is gone.

Myke Hurley: A quarter of a million dollars is out of hand. Yeah. That's out of hand. And he only put this up. I think he's freaking out. He put this up for sale.

Myke Hurley: Like... See, he did a 60-day Kickstarter and it's been up for a month. See, the fact that he did a 60-day Kickstarter, because usually people do it for 30 days, probably says that he wasn't confident he was going to hit this. Right. But go on.

Brad Dowdy: So, let me... I'm just going to read a piece of this that goes along with some of what I'm saying.

Myke Hurley: You shouldn't read the whole thing, because he has no idea what's happening right now. No.

Brad Dowdy: And I don't want to... I'm not going to throw him under the bus without talking to him. He probably doesn't even know that this show exists. Yeah. In general, he doesn't say anything in this text that's, you know, ooh, ah, wow, or anything. But he does give some insight on his thought process. And this is the challenge that I'm having with how this pen's represented. He says, when I start thinking about making a pen, I looked at it as what I would like, not on specific technical data, but as look and feel. That's the point I have some hard time explaining to some. To an expert like you, my pen is certainly not of any particular interest, because it does not have such a pedigree or such and such part. You know, even if I were to develop a pen in collaboration with me, being Brad, I'm sure someone would find something to say about it. And he's exactly right. But this again... And he says, so again, I wanted a nice pen that writes well with a certain look and shape and a certain sound when you close it and a certain weight, and that's the way I approach it. Then he goes on, yes, it'll be made in China. And I have zero issue with it being made in China. That's not my argument at all.

Brad Dowdy: All right. So that's all I'm going to read of this text. It goes on and on and on and on. And I'm going to talk to him some more. And we'll probably follow up on this next week and see if I can get some answers to the questions. But that goes back to my theory. I think that plays into my theory that he didn't design this pen from scratch. He didn't come up with the specs and the shapes and the dimensions and the cuts and anything on this pen is my speculation. So that's my issue. And he talks about one of the point I was getting to before my text went off was that he talks about how tight in the on the project page in one of the sections. I'm pretty sure it's on the project page and not in the comments.

Myke Hurley: So that again, you cut out. Did you say the first part?

Brad Dowdy: Sure, sure, sure. He talks about how tight his margins are for this pen.

Myke Hurley: Right.

Brad Dowdy: Pretty openly. I have a hard time believing that until I talk to him. Once I talk to him, maybe my assumptions will change. And I don't want to butcher the guy. I mean, I haven't talked to him yet. I'm trying to.

Myke Hurley: Hey, tell him if you'll come on the show.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I offered for him to come on the show. Believe me, I did. He didn't respond to that particular question. No, I can't imagine he'd want to. He said he would call me on the phone and he would talk about it.

Myke Hurley: He probably would. I mean, if I was him, I wouldn't want to go on a podcast and be outnumbered.

Brad Dowdy: I know. And I think he's getting, I mean, I feel like I'm unfairly raking him over the coals, but I'm really just trying to get some answer to questions that fountain pen people want to know. So this got out of hand, I think, because it started as, you know, it basically started as, as, you know, Johnny Anypen, right? It was just a basic pen that beginners were going to use and love. And again, I'm going to say it, if I say it once, I'm going to say it a thousand times. People who back this project, you're going to get a perfectly fine pen. It's going to be fine. You know, there's no reason to jump out of this project. It's going to be perfectly fine. When, you know, people with more fountain pen experience get into this, they look at it and they see that this is just like any other pen that any other Chinese manufacturer, and how or bear banks, and they make them for $5 or $10. You know, we've never gotten into the list of questions I sent him. Do you want me to go over that real quick?

Myke Hurley: I would like you to do that, yeah.

Fountain Pen Design

Brad Dowdy: All right. So question one, you've talked about designing the Visionaire, but you also talk about not having much fountain pen experience. How much of the actual design is yours and how much is pre-made parts?

Brad Dowdy: Question number two, did you fit your specs into an existing design, or is this 100% original design?

Brad Dowdy: Number three, are any new tools or dyes being made to produce these pens, or will existing tooling be used for manufacturing?

Brad Dowdy: Number four, the full manufacturer of your pen is Chinese. Why should someone buy the Visionaire instead of a Hero pen from the most well-known Chinese pen manufacturer that looks similar and only costs $4? And that's the last thing, the link to the same pen I sent you. And the last question, number five, you mentioned several times that your margins are low for this project, yet you increased the number of early bird backers exponentially, allowing more backers to get the pen at a cheaper rate. What was behind the decision to allow this if the margins are so low? So that was my list of questions.

Myke Hurley: That last question.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm.

Myke Hurley: Well, that's interesting. And I've seen a couple of people mention that. My thinking would be his margin probably was low. Yeah. When he was selling a couple of thousand. Right. And now, and this is how I would do this, if I start to get to the point where I have 4,000 backers, 4,500 backers, my volumes increased so much, that I can offer it for cheaper because it will bring even more people in cutting that margin. Because the cost of all of this stuff, like the cost of, I mean, I've never made a fountain pen, but I understand a little bit about production. I mean, I do production of paper, right? Sometimes quite a bit for my living. Or my day job. I don't know if it's my living.

Myke Hurley: The main cost for us is starting the machines. Right. Every time you start and stop that machine, that's the cost. It's not the paper. It's not, and it's not the ink. It's not the people. It is the physical starting and stopping of that, of the press. That is what costs us the most money. Everything else we can get down. You can't get those prices down. So, if he is able to turn around to his Chinese manufacturer and say, I have 6,000 of these, he's going to make a lot more money. So, he can charge them at $37. Because if he sells them for $37 rather than $45, he might make more money for himself. Right. Because that $10 difference is a chunk of the price when it's $37. Mm-hmm. You know? For basically, it's like a quarter of the price off if you're buying a $45. So, that would be my thinking on that. That sort of stuff you should communicate, I think.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Myke Hurley: But if that is his reasoning, which I think it probably is, then I think that he's made the right decision because he's been able to give that price to many more people. He's been able to give a lower price because of the sheer volume means he can pass the saving along to the customer, which is that old sort of car showroom infomercial.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Myke Hurley: You know? Passing the savings along to the customer, which is probably what he is doing. You know what? I feel like this is, Brad. Mm-hmm. This is a man who has very little experience in everything that he's trying to do here. Right. So, the business, the actual manufacturer of the pen as well. The problem is, he's selling it to 4,500 people when he maybe only intended to sell it to 20% of that if he was lucky.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Myke Hurley: A couple, you know. Right. A thousand. Max. I think that's the problem that he's found himself in.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I think so too. I think it's gotten into the mainstream and that mainstream comes along with it, people who have experience with the product that he's trying to sell.

Myke Hurley: How did this happen?

Brad Dowdy: I have no earthly idea. Zero idea. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I mean, this looks really nice and I thought it was quite cheap. I got in at $37. Mm-hmm. So, I was like, that doesn't, you know, that's not too expensive. $10 shipping as well. Right. So, it's $47 for me. So, it's like 30 pounds. Mm-hmm. So, it's not that much providing this is a good pen. Right. That's like, I don't know, price and a bit for a Lamy? Right. Maybe two Lamy Safaris? Yeah.

TWSBI Pens

Brad Dowdy: It's almost a Twisby.

Myke Hurley: Almost a Twisby, yeah. I haven't bought any more. I'm waiting for the new Twisbys, basically, before I get any more.

Brad Dowdy: That's a hard wait. I know.

Myke Hurley: The VAC 700 looks a little too long for me.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah. I'm past that.

Myke Hurley: Looks a bit too long. And also, I want one of the 580s, but I don't want a clear one. I want a color. Yeah, me too. And they haven't got any colors yet because I've got a clear Mini. Yep. So many people compliment me on the Mini, by the way. That's a great pen. I pick it up and they're like, this is really interesting. I'm like, yeah, it is.

Brad Dowdy: So I'll be interested to see what the people say about this pen.

Myke Hurley: It's been leaking quite a bit this week.

Brad Dowdy: The Twisby?

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I've got it. There isn't a lot of ink left in there. I don't know if that's got anything to do with it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, maybe need to fill it up some more.

Myke Hurley: I had my Twisby in my pocket.

Brad Dowdy: I don't know how the air pressure reacts when there's more air in the body.

Myke Hurley: I think it's harming. Because I have my ink at home pen at work. It's just a pain. I had my Twisby in my pocket and somehow maybe a little bit of ink got onto the barrel because I took my earphone out of my ear where I keep them in the same pocket sometimes. And my earphone was blue, so the inside of my ear was blue. I've just totally got off track now. But what was I saying? I can't even remember what I was saying. I was talking about him.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, you were just talking about the price. Oh, yeah. It's a fair price. I think people are going to get a perfectly fine pen. But now that it's reached this kind of tipping point, people are asking me, what do I think about the pen? And honestly, I've got a lot of questions on it. I'm not.

Myke Hurley: I wondered. I knew that today, doing this show, I was going to go one of two ways.

Myke Hurley: I was either going to cancel it straight away or you weren't going to convince me. At the moment, I'm not convinced. I 100% agree with everything that you're saying. But as much as I love you, you can't prove any of it. And I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. But what I do trust is your judgment and your ability to read people. So if you have a phone conversation with him and you ask him these questions straight out and you're not comfortable with his answers and you tell me them and I agree with you, then I will be canceling my pledge.

Brad Dowdy: No. What I think is going to happen, the more I read his texts and his emails to me, I think it's just gotten out of hand. And it's gotten way bigger than he intended. And now he's having to answer questions he would have never thought he would have had to answer in a million years by putting his pen project on Kickstarter.

Brad Dowdy: And I don't want to unfairly mark him or this project. And that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to ask the questions that I have when I read everything about this project. Again, I'm going to say it. If you're a backer of this project, you should stay a backer of this project. I think you're going to get a perfectly fine and usable pen. I just have questions with how it's presented and some of the claims that Morgan's making, which kind of throws up a red flag and is not something that I want to be a part of. And I hope I'm wrong. I hope this is the greatest pen ever. And when he's done, he's talking about selling these for $80. And maybe everyone will start stocking these pens.

Myke Hurley: I'll tell you what my current thinking is. Unless you or anyone can show me some proof that basically not what I'm buying here is a $4 pen. Because if I see that, I'm not going to pay for this because that's ridiculous, right? If it turns out that what I'm actually buying here is a $4 pen, I mean, and I know that they can charge those margins because they're a big company or whatever. This guy's a one-man shop. But I'm still not going to do that because that's just ridiculous. Right. Because that does feel scammy, right? If he is buying $3 pens off the shelf there or thereabouts, you might be having them laser etched, then I'm not going to pay for that. But there is a part of me now that wants to buy this pen.

Brad Dowdy: I know. I want you to buy this pen.

Myke Hurley: So when it comes in December, because that's what he's estimated delivery time is, I want to see what this is like.

Brad Dowdy: Now, did you look at any of the links to the other Japanese pens I sent? Let me see. Like there, I sent a review of a Jen Howe. So go to that Jen Howe review on Pen Ink Cillin.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Brad Dowdy: Pen Ink Cillin. What a great... I know. And he stopped updating. He's done a great job. Whoa, look at this bad boy.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Japanese Pens

Brad Dowdy: So do you like that pen? That's good looking. That's a good looking pen. $4.

Myke Hurley: Oh, stop doing this.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, I'm sorry. $8. $8.

Myke Hurley: You're just trying to upset me now.

Brad Dowdy: No, I'm just trying to make the point. You're going to get a perfectly fine pen.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, but I'd be happier paying $40 for this.

Brad Dowdy: I know. $8. Where from? Huh?

Myke Hurley: Where can I get this?

Brad Dowdy: Probably X Fountain pens or HisNibs, which is where I sent the bare link that goes to. You'll see a few other pens. But I thought you would like that one on Pen Ink Cillin, the Jen Howe X750. It's a fantastic looking pen. It's killer looking. It's better looking than the Visionaire, I think.

Myke Hurley: Oh, my word. HisNibs. This is a website. Wow. Oh, my God. They've got a little mail truck spinning wheels down the bottom. Yeah. I would be more willing to, no offense to these guys, to put my money in the Kickstarter guy than this website.

Brad Dowdy: I know. But this is just a sample of some of the other pens.

Myke Hurley: It's funny how you say that sort of stuff. Like, I can't trust this. Like, you've probably used them. Actually, I haven't. I haven't. But this website just... He should be selling on Amazon and eBay. Like...

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Well, that's what... I mean, eBay's full of Hero and Jen Howe pens.

Myke Hurley: Oh, I'm sure.

Brad Dowdy: You know. But I'm just saying, look at some of the designs. Look at... There's one called... Gosh, what's this called?

Brad Dowdy: The Jen Howe makes this. It's a Dreadnought. This is a big, wicked-looking pen. And he's selling it for $35. I mean, this is... Whoa, look at that thing.

Myke Hurley: I don't like that, but that's crazy looking.

Brad Dowdy: If you're not a fountain pen user and you saw that, you'd go, ooh, man, look at that pen. Yeah. Right?

Myke Hurley: Yeah. That's like premium.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So that's just the point I'm making. I mean, it's just... I just think this is generic. We'll just leave it at that.

Myke Hurley: Oh, what a topic today. Wow. We're going to get so much feedback on this.

Brad Dowdy: I know. And believe me, the last thing I want to do is eviscerate this guy without talking to him, Morgan. And I'm trying to be fair, but I'm trying to ask the hard questions too. And, you know, I've said it five times already. If you're a backer of this project, you're going to get a perfect... I'm convinced that this... Number one, people are saying this is a scam and he's going to run away with the money. I don't think that at all. I think you're going to get a perfectly fine pen.

Myke Hurley: That's not going to happen. That won't happen.

Brad Dowdy: I think you're going to get a perfectly fine pen. You'll get something. I just think it's way overpriced. I don't think it's... I don't think there's a lot of design work in here personally. But that's something I'll hopefully be able to sort out with Morgan.

Brad Dowdy: And I think it's, you know, it's gotten a little big. I think it's gotten way bigger than he anticipated. So I hope it works out for him. I hope it works out for everyone who's backed it. I hope everyone who gets the pen tells me how great it is and how wrong I am. I'm willing to be wrong in this case. I don't have a... I would be happy to be wrong in this case. I got no problem with that. And please tell me if I am once the pens come in December. But I'm sure we'll be talking about it more since then. And I'll try to talk to Morgan between now and next week.

Myke Hurley: If Morgan is listening...

Myke Hurley: I think I'm in your corner on this at the moment.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, there's a pretty good dividing line, right? Don't you think? Just from our Twitter followers?

Myke Hurley: Well, no. I think everyone is on your side that I've seen.

Brad Dowdy: So there's a few that say, oh, this is beautiful. I'm in. No, but I mean, I said that.

Myke Hurley: I also said that. But I mean, like then it seems that the more people see and they see what you say and links and whatever, then people tend to be going with you. And even though I'm hearing the same stuff, I still kind of feel like... I just feel like he deserves the benefit of the doubt a bit. Because I honestly feel like I can see from this guy's perspective how he could have gotten himself into a position where he is in and amongst a group of people who know more than him about the product that he's creating, which is not a problem in my opinion. He just may have never made a pen before, as I said. Right. Because, you know, we have had... We've spoken to Dan and we've told him pens that he didn't know that we talk about every week. Right. You know?

Brad Dowdy: Sure, sure.

Fisher Space Pen

Myke Hurley: Like he only picked up a Retro 51 a few weeks ago. Right. To me and you, that's like, well, every pen addict has one. You know? And that's just my concern. Because, you know, I just worry that people maybe, or maybe our clan, as it were, are expecting something of this guy.

Brad Dowdy: Right. And we shouldn't. I mean, we shouldn't. But now that people keep asking me about it, I decided to look into it. And, you know...

Myke Hurley: Like, how do you think that our listeners would feel if they found out that currently at the moment I'm using my Fisher Space Pen as much as I'm using my Mini, my Twisby Mini?

Brad Dowdy: That'd be no issue at all. So...

Myke Hurley: But, like, people are, like, freaking out because he's using a BIC. When, to me...

Brad Dowdy: Oh, yeah, that...

Myke Hurley: They have no different, you know...

Brad Dowdy: No, that doesn't faze me.

Myke Hurley: Do you know what I mean? But they have no real different experience, in my opinion. I mean, I'm not writing in space or upside down or underwater. Right, right. But it's just because it's the pen that's attached to my field notes. Sure. And I don't write in my field notes in my fountain pens, really. Just because it's not as good an experience for the paper.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I don't think that's a real talking point in the grand scheme of things. What he was using to sketch with on his piece of paper. If someone was using just a generic number two pencil, it'd be no different.

Myke Hurley: Every conversation that we've been included on at some point mentioned that.

Brad Dowdy: I know. I know. That part doesn't bother me. Good.

Myke Hurley: And, by the way, listeners, I love you all. I'm not, you know... Oh, yeah. I'm playing devil's advocate in all of this. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And, you know, rightfully so. Because, I mean, I'm pretending like I know everything. And it's really just me trying to make some educated guesses and connect the dots on what I'm seeing here. And it's just, you know, it leads to more questions. And Morgan, since the project started, has been very evasive answering very specific questions. So, it's kind of come to a boiling point in the comments section over there. And some of the commenters are actually helping him. Like, okay, you need to say this. And you need to take this out of the thing. And you need to do this. And remove this. And clarify this. And do this. He's like, oh, okay. Okay. I got it. I got it. Okay. I got it. You know? So, it's... I feel a little bit bad for him. I don't want to... Like I said, I don't want to eviscerate the guy. But it's leading to more questions for me as a fountain pen nerd. And believe me, I'm way less experienced than a lot of people. And it's just too many red flags for me to even commit just a little bit of money to it, which it's not very much. So, I just don't think I'll be getting anything special. And that's what I'd be looking for.

Myke Hurley: I hope that this time next week we'll have even more to talk about on this.

Brad Dowdy: I hope so. It's a hot topic. It's crazy. Last week, this wasn't even on the radar for me. And then I got one question. And, you know, I just kind of answered it the best I thought. And just kind of that was done. And then all of a sudden, it just blew up. So, we'll see. Now everyone's talking about it. So, we're talking about it too. Which is fun. I'm glad we do this every week. And we can pick up on these new topics like this.

Myke Hurley: Join in the conversation with me and Brad. Brad. I am imike. I-M-Y-K-E on Twitter and app.net. Brad is dowdy. D-O-W-D-Y on app.net. Dowdy-ism on Twitter. D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M. If you want to get in touch with us by email, best way to do it for me, go to mikecurley.net slash contact. I'm going to get it filled out the form. Brad, you can do the same for him. Penaddict.com slash contact or email him at thepenaddict at gmail.com. And Brad writes over at penaddict.com. But you all knew that already, of course, because you go there every day.

Brad Dowdy: Absolutely.

Myke Hurley: We'll be back next week. Thanks so much for listening. Thank you, Brad, for a great discussion.

Brad Dowdy: Absolutely. Thank you.

Myke Hurley: Thanks to Squarespace. Don't forget, if you have a Squarespace site that you have designed and you've signed up, maybe you've heard about them through us. Hopefully you have. And that was why you signed up. But send us your site and we'll take a look at some and we'll talk about some of them, especially if they're pen related.

Brad Dowdy: Yes.

Myke Hurley: So we'll be back next week. We'll be seeing them. Yes, we'd love to. We'll be back next week. Thanks so much. Bye-bye.

Brad Dowdy: Bye. Bye.