The Pen Addict 63/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	63
Title:	Electric Shock Treatment
Release Date:	July 16th, 2013
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 63
Audio File:	Audio Episode 63
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 63
Length:	4242 min <br />0.7 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: Hello and welcome to episode 63 of The Pen Addict podcast, a weekly show where we discuss pens, paper, and the analogue tools that you love so dearly. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined today by a man that, if he was a crowdfunded project, would be supported by millions and millions of people. It's Mr. Brad Dowdy.

Brad Dowdy: I break all kinds of Kickstarter records, right?

Myke Hurley: Every single one there has ever been.

Brad Dowdy: Cool. Beat Double Fine, and who else is, and beat the pebble, beat everybody. So yeah, I've got that going for me, which is nice.

Brad Dowdy: So how are you today, sir?

Brad Dowdy: Frazzled.

Brad Dowdy: I say that knowing that, but I didn't mean to lead you into the state that you're in. So yeah, we should talk about some pens and some things like that to kind of get you off the ledge, right?

Myke Hurley: Yes, that would be a great idea.

Kickstarter Projects

Brad Dowdy: All right, so we saw an article come up this weekend on TechCrunch on Sunday by John Biggs. And our good friend, Anna Reinert, from the Well-Appointed Desk, had a really nice quote in it. And it was from, the article was about why pens are popular on Kickstarter and what it means for crowdfunders. And John is, John's always been kind of a pen fan. I worked with him a couple times when I was at JetPen. So he kind of, he at least has an idea of what he's talking about, unlike, you know, someone that's just picking up the topic for the first time and trying to extrapolate, you know, pens and Kickstarter and what all that means. And so he at least has a basis of an idea to write an article like this. And I thought, I mean, it wasn't anything, you know, new or novel in the article. He was just basically trying to figure out why pens do so well on Kickstarter. And, I mean, his basic point is, well, you know, the fans are rabid. It's not going to cost you too much. And you're not going to get crushed if something happens, you know, to the project because you're not, generally not spending a lot of money up front, right? There's not a lot of, there's not a huge risk on the consumer's part to take part in some of these Kickstarter projects for pens. And, you know, the reason why they're so popular, which is what Anna's quotes were about, is, you know, how people like myself and you and really just anyone in any office, any setting, any home working setting, you know, uses the pens that they use on a daily basis that they've, you know, gotten from Staples or Walmart or whatever. And they're not using the regular old Bic ballpoint. And they found a good pen they like, like a Pilot G2 or a Pilot V5 or something like that. And they want to, I guess, customize it isn't the right word, but they want to make it more special to them. And that's why these pen projects have been so cool, I think. They make these, take these pens that we all like and use on a daily basis and give them, give us something nice to put around that pen refill that we like so much and something different and something special. And, you know, I think that's been the majority of the success for all these Kickstarter projects. And, you know, I think John's right in the article saying that, you know, you're most likely not going to get burnt on a pen project. Although there's been some that have not been funded. There haven't been too many that have just completely gone up in flames. There's been some notorious projects that have been hugely, hugely delayed and things like that. But nothing that's just really where the guy's vanished or, you know, someone's run off with the money. There might be one or two notes, nothing I've been involved in. What do you think about the Kickstarter and the whole pen thing and why you buy, you know, why are you interested in backing some of this stuff on Kickstarter, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Well, I guess there is some pretty interesting stuff that comes out of the Kickstarter world, you know. I mean, you look at the Retract, which is up to like $85,000 now, which is amazing. But, you know, you get some really cool ideas that come out of people wanting to create pens through the Kickstarter route.

Myke Hurley: But then there are pitfalls, like I'm still waiting on that pen that I mentioned a couple of weeks ago. I know there are people that are getting them now, but I don't seem to be having much luck. Mine still hasn't arrived. I have no idea why. Yeah, there's some delays. Yeah, it seems that way. It seems that way. But a lot of it is because, you know, they're trying to make the best product that they can, which I can sympathize with, I think. You know, I'm happy to receive it late if it means I'm going to get something excellent rather than them rushing it and me getting something poor. But I think it's just because people have ideas, but they're not a huge company. And then because they're not a huge company, they don't have anybody to answer to. So they can create something that they really want to make and they can charge whatever price they want for it. And if people are willing to buy it, it will get made. And I think it's kind of cool. I like it.

Brad Dowdy: Right. And I think one of the things that Keras and pins like the Retract and Render K have done, I think they've got the price point figured out, I think. You know, just like the starting pin under $50. That's a good price point. You know, it's going to be hard for a lot of people. Well, I won't speak for a lot of people. I'll speak for me. But to back a pin that's, you know, around $100 from a manufacturer or someone I haven't, you know, seen their work before or, you know, at least have a pretty safe feeling about. But, you know, for $40 or $50, I'm willing to take that chance. Whereas, you know, for the other projects, you know, if you've seen some like been around $100 or so, that's a little more. That's a bigger pain point if something goes wrong, you know, for me and I imagine for a lot of people. So I appreciate the fact that you can go on Kickstarter. You can find a machine pin made by, you know, a group of guys in a machine shop by hand and, you know, pretty much handling all the parts themselves. And you can get that for under $50. I mean, that's pretty good. I mean, that's a pretty good deal. And I think that's why these pins like the Retract and the Render K and, you know, all the other ones that have done so well, the Premiere pin and the TI pin and things like that. So, yeah, it scratches that itch that we have. And, you know, we're willing to, you know, guys like us and people that listen to the podcast, we're willing to own more than one pin too. So we're filling the coffers there at Kickstarter for sure with these pin projects. So I think it's pretty cool. And, you know, it was nice to see this article on TechCrunch and I got a link in it. And so I was happy about that. And Ana did a great job on her quotes. So she was excited about that. She had reached out to me when John was reaching out to her. She's like, what do I do? Should I talk to him? And I'm like, yeah, go for it. So it was cool. It was cool. Good to see. And speaking of Kickstarter, before that article came about, my friend on Twitter, Wu Sang from Australia, sent me a link to another Kickstarter project that I hadn't seen. And I'm going to butcher this name because it's a German name and we'll have to get our German pronunciation guru to record this and send it to us. But it's the Lernstift. Is that where we're going with? Lernstift.

Myke Hurley: I would say Lernstift.

Lernstift Pen

Brad Dowdy: Lernstift. So it's Lernstift, the first pin that vibrates when you make a mistake.

Myke Hurley: How does it?

Brad Dowdy: So I've read through this. This is a really, really long and in-depth project page. It's pretty ambitious. It's basically, you know, it's got a little CPU board in there in the pen. And the pen is, and the, it runs like a, I don't know, like a Linux software module that can learn your handwriting. And I guess eventually tell you when you're making mistakes, either, I don't know, in penmanship style and or in spelling. It's pretty extreme.

Brad Dowdy: I kind of don't know what to make of this. I'm kind of scared by it. This is the, now this, on the other hand, this is a project that, like we were just talking about John Biggs' article where most of these pins are straightforward and safe. This looks pretty risky. This is kind of a high risk type of situation.

Brad Dowdy: Number one, it's very expensive. I think the base model is 99 pounds. So what are we talking, like $150? That's in the ballpark, I think. They're also looking to get 120,000 pounds for their goal. And they're only at 18 right now with 23 days to go. So it's got a long way to go. I think they may not get there.

Myke Hurley: I don't think they'll make that.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I don't really see what this is meant to do, though.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, it's supposed to be a trainer for kids, essentially, to where if they make a mistake, it will vibrate and let them know that they've made a mistake. Someone will have to tell them, you know, I guess it's a two-person deal. Someone, if the kid's writing and it makes a mistake and he doesn't know what the mistake is, that doesn't really help him unless someone can point that out to him. So someone would have to be sitting there with the child to, you know, as the child studies and writes, which I guess it's pretty normal. I mean, I sit with my kids while they do their homework. But I don't know. I don't want to say I don't get it. I get it. But I don't understand why someone necessarily would want this. It seems...

Myke Hurley: I'm not convinced it works.

Ungenius Project

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I'm trying to find the word for that. But yeah, I guess that's as simple as this. I'm not convinced that it would be... The accuracy would be there to get enough out of it to justify the price. So...

Myke Hurley: I mean, I'm not saying that they're liars.

Myke Hurley: I just... This kind of thing seems unbelievable. Mm-hmm. Like, it just seems like it's... I just can't believe how something like this could exist. Right. So, on that basis, I'm not willing to put £100 down.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Myke Hurley: To receive something that may not work. This is something that I would want to see work in the flesh, personally. For an extent. For a period of time. Or have a review or an account from someone I trust. Mm-hmm. And know to tell me that this works. Because this seems like it's too good to be true.

Brad Dowdy: Right. This seems... Yeah. And they're really aggressive right out the gate. It seems like there's a lot of work to do. This seems like this would be a project that would take, you know, 12 months to wrap up. Because they're doing, you know... Doing phone apps.

Brad Dowdy: You know... Applications for school. Opening it up to developers. It's super aggressive. They're thinking big. There's no doubt about that. But it's... I'd be pretty scared to back a project like this. Just because it does seem unbelievable. I would have to see this product up front. Now, they compare it a little bit to the Livescribe. Which I'm not that familiar with. But that was a kind of a... It was a handwriting recognition pen, I guess. If you use the proper Livescribe paper or the pad that it came with. You know, you could get your handwriting read digitally. But it wasn't correcting errors. And this pen is saying it's going to correct your errors.

Brad Dowdy: Based on the... Whatever algorithms are built on this board.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I don't know, like... I mean, and again... I'm sure that they've done some research and could disprove this. But I don't know if that's how you learn. Yeah. Like... It's like an electric shock treatment. That's true. That's what it reminds me of. Like, I know it's just a vibration. But it's like this cognitive behavioral therapy stuff. I mean, I guess that's what they're kind of basing this on, right? Right. You familiar with CBT? No. I believe it. I'm going to check that I'm getting this right. Cognitive behavioral therapy is... And I think that the... If I'm getting this right...

Myke Hurley: I'm reading Wikipedia right now.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. This is Ungenius. This is the next episode of Ungenius.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. This is probably not even cognitive behavioral therapy, but... If that's what I'm thinking of, people can tell me whatever it is that I'm thinking of. Where you like... And there's a friend scene where I think Phoebe shows a picture of Rachel to Ross and then slaps him in the side of the head. Yeah. That's kind of what I'm thinking of.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It's just the mouse opening the door to get the cheese and getting shocked. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. No. It's kind of an odd thing. But I wouldn't even have pointed this out, but I thought it was pretty interesting to at least discuss. Because it's kind of mind-boggling at how it works and that it would be successful on Kickstarter just because they're asking for a pretty large commitment.

Brad Dowdy: I don't know. We'll see. I'll keep tracking it. I haven't watched the videos yet. I've read through the project page, which is really large. So, I mean, you need a while to read through everything. And I still wasn't convinced. So, I'm going to watch the videos and see if I've changed my mind. But, yeah. I just wanted to point this one out because it seemed pretty interesting. And I'd love to get some feedback if anyone else has some experience in this area. So, let us know for sure. Now on to fun things like spending my money. So, I spent some money this weekend, Myke.

Myke Hurley: Excellent.

Pen Wish List

Brad Dowdy: And it was a random thing. You know, it was part of kind of keeping that pin wish list, you know, to always have things in the back of your head. And I'm not a big eBay guy. You know, I bought, you know, the whole time we were talking about field notes on eBay. I think I bought one thing, you know, in months. But I do have some searches for different pins that I like and just kind of see, get some ideas, you know, for what prices go for and things like that. And every now and then you run into something that really, really is up your alley. And that happened to me this weekend just randomly looking on eBay. I've always wanted one of the pins at the top of my wish list when I went to the Atlanta Pin Show was a sailor. And that actually gave us, I think, maybe our best show title ever, which was episode 49 of The Pin Addict. A sailor is at the top of my wish list. That's one of my personal favorites. But I've used my friend Thomas' sailors and I love the nibs on them. The gold nibs are, you know, they're super, super smooth, very fine, very precise. And I stumbled on one on eBay. It was a clear Sapporo demonstrator with an extra fine nib. And that's everything that I want in a pin. I like the demonstrators. I like the 14 karat gold nib. And I like the extra fine nib. And I ended up paying $91, which I felt was not quite a steal, but pretty much a steal. You know, just on the regular U.S. sites, it goes for about $150, $160 in that range. On the Japanese sites, it goes for about $120 plus shipping. So I got it for $91 plus like another $250 in shipping. And would you believe I won the auction on Sunday and the pin is in my hand right now.

Brad Dowdy: Wow. I was not expecting to have it on this show, but I wanted to talk about it because I know that I've talked about what's the number one pin on my wish list. And actually, the number one pin is the Sailor Pro Gear, which is the big boy compared to the one that I bought. But I couldn't pass this up. Like I've talked before when I bought my Pilot Custom Heritage, if I can get a Japanese pin with a 14 karat gold nib for $100, I'm buying that 100% of the time. And that's what happened here. So I was happy to get it. And I will have a more full report on it. But in the 10 minutes I spent with it before this podcast, it's living up to the hype of what my expectations were of it. It's really great looking. It's this clear demonstrator. We'll have a link to it in the show notes. The nib is very, very smooth. It's very, very fine. And I learned from Thomas, actually, right before the show, the nib on Sailor is marked H-EF. I didn't notice that when I was testing out other Sailor pins. I thought they just said EF on the side. But the H is for hard, just like a lot of pins have an SEF or a SF for soft. I haven't seen any that were specifically flagged hard. And that's something I like that I found out that I like in pins. I like a nail hard nib. So I think this pin is going to be a big, big part of my daily rotation. I'm liking it a lot so far in the few minutes that I have it. It's living up to the expectations that I have. I got it for a great price, which I'm certainly not going to complain about that. And yeah, hopefully we'll see it reviewed on pinatic.com before too, too long. But man, I've got a long list of fountain pins that I need to get reviewed, don't I? You certainly do. I'm getting way behind on that. That takes some time for me to write up those reviews and put those together because I want to give more than just superficial type of information. The fountain pins more so than just a gel ink pen. I need to spend more time with them, get a really good feel for them and how they work on different papers and different inks and things like that to write up. But I mean, I owe reviews and people get on me all the time. The Lamy 2000 review, I've owed that for like a year.

Brad Dowdy: I owe a follow up on The Vanishing Point. I haven't reviewed the Pelican that I got. I have lots of reviews that I need to do. So they will be coming soon. I'm going to work on that. But I try to post at least two reviews a week. And even just doing one fountain pin review takes so much time for me that I tend to put those off a little more than the other ones that I can handle a little bit more. But they will be coming soon. Especially the Lamy 2000. I'm not going to do. That's going to be the next kind of big fountain pen review. I do. But I haven't really started it yet. But I get more questions about that pen than anything. And plus, I want to do that because it's going to.

Brad Dowdy: It might be the number one slot. But we'll see. We'll see. It's a good pen. And I get asked about it all the time. The Vanishing Point and the Lamy 2000. Those seem to be a really good step up for a lot of people. So they're always looking for information about those. So I want to be able to provide it and provide a link to it eventually like I did the Vanishing Point. Because that's still one of the most popular posts on the blog. The Vanishing Point. And I'm sure the Lamy 2000 will if I will ever get off my behind and do it. So why don't you get off your behind and do something for us this episode, Myke. And let's talk about our fine sponsor.

Myke Hurley: I'm pretty sure we can do that. That always sounds like a good idea to me, Brad. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one platform that makes it easy to create your own website. For a free trial and 10% off, go to squarespace.com and use the code TallyHo. Squarespace, they're constantly updating their platform with new features, new designs, and fantastic support. They have beautiful designs for you to start with and tons of style options for you to adjust so you can really make your own space online. Squarespace takes care of hosting, SEO, and even makes sure that your site looks fantastic on any device. It's incredibly easy to use, but if you need any help, they have amazing support. A fantastic award-winning support team that works 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And while you're over at squarespace.com, make sure you check out their new homepage too. It's got some fantastic videos that are really beautiful and show you how Squarespace fits absolutely everyone differently. There's some great examples there. Make sure you cycle through and get some ideas on how to create a beautiful website.

Myke Hurley: As I mentioned earlier, you can go to squarespace.com to find out more, but you can also sign up for a free trial there. No credit card required. And if you decide to purchase, Squarespace starts at just $8 a month and includes a free domain name if you sign up for one year. And don't forget that you will get 10% off and you will help support the Pan Addict Podcast by using the offer code TallyHo. So go check out Squarespace, everything that you need to make an amazing website.

Brad Dowdy: All right. TallyHo. Thank you, Squarespace.

Myke Hurley: Thank you very much, Squarespace.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Goodness, excuse me. You're all right over there. I had that whole read to get that out.

Myke Hurley: The whole time.

Brad Dowdy: I waited to drop it on you right when we're ready to start talking about something else. Sorry, that just came out of nowhere.

Myke Hurley: You are totally unforgiven.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. One of the recurring themes that I tend to latch onto on this podcast and on the blog, sometimes more frequently on the podcast, I think, is the state of the Pen retail industry. And when I say that, I mean the physical stores, you know, the brick and mortar, you know, going to Staples, Office Max, you know, whatever your local office supply retailer is. And even, you know, the Walmarts and Targets and other, you know, general stores of the world. And I talk about how there's, you know, lack of innovation in those spaces. You know, what are some of the things that they do wrong? In my opinion, what are some of the things that could be done better? And I noticed I found an article on a stock analysis website. This was about a month ago I found this article. So my, and it was actually in the Inklink's post I do on Saturday. So some of you may have seen it. And I do apologize because this article is actually behind a, I guess it's behind a registration wall. I don't know if it's behind a paywall or not, but you don't have to go and register it just to read it. There's a, there's enough just on the front page of it just to kind of, in the snippet of it, to just kind of get the gist of it. But the title of the article is Staples talking about the company. This is coming, just remember, this is coming from a stock analyst type of perception. So the title is called Staples, doomed by Amazon or by young people. And I thought that was a pretty, they did a good job on the title because it drug me in. And let me read just a little bit of it and kind of give you an idea of where the author is coming on what's the challenges Staples has and, you know, what they're up against. So it says, a coworker, easily 20 years my junior, stopped by my desk the other day to borrow my stapler, which was sitting next to a tape dispenser amid piles of paper. And it occurred to me, the other desk in the office, all with young people sitting behind them, don't look like this.

Brad Dowdy: And he's just, you know, referring to himself. He's kind of the old school guy, but all the, you know, the young people don't have these kind of things handy like a stapler or like, you know, myself would. And he relates some of the pricing between Staples saying that the Uniball gel grip pins, they're $17.99 per dozen at Staples, but $13.99 on Amazon and even $10.99 on Newegg.com. So Staples has a severe pricing vulnerability, he says. What it offers is breadth of merchandise. If, say, you're the office manager and don't want to Google every item you're ordering in some 1,500 stores in the U.S. for convenience sake, for office managers. The changing nature of work suggests that demand for traditional office supplies may wane. The younger people I work with just don't buy paper tablets, copier paper, binder clips, yellow post-it notes, yellow highlighters, and all the other paper-related items that fill the aisles at Staples stores.

Brad Dowdy: So...

Myke Hurley: I disagree with this.

Brad Dowdy: Say that again?

Myke Hurley: I disagree.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so you...

Office Environments

Brad Dowdy: I guess we've never talked about this specifically, but I'm thinking you work in a larger office environment than I do. I work in an office environment, but it's smaller. I'm wagering that you work around more people with more of these type of office supplies and things like that. What did you want to say about that?

Myke Hurley: Well, I think my first issue with this, I mean, I haven't read the whole article, but his opening point of this is that somebody has come to borrow his stapler, therefore meaning that person still needs a stapler. And he's saying that he has a tape dispenser, etc. But that's maybe because he's worked here at this place for longer, or has at least been working for longer, so he's aware of the types of things that he may need. Like, I have a stapler. I use my stapler once every few months. Right. But just because I know that I need it. Does that make sense? Yes.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, no, because I'm the same way. Agreed.

Myke Hurley: And I also have Sellotape, as we call it. Brand, it's the brand name. I have it in my desk, but I can't remember the last time that I used it, because I've used it in the past. I just find that the premise of the fact that somebody came to borrow his stapler, which would have made him think, this person hasn't got a stapler, doesn't necessarily suggest to me that young people don't need staplers, because what he's proving is a young person does need a stapler. Right. And I just, well, yes, there is a change in industry these days, which does mean that things like, I don't know, highlighters and paper are maybe used less in some industries, but in my industry, they're used every day, because I work in an industry which is very paper heavy. I just think there are shifts that change these things, but I find that his premise for which he's written this article seems to be a little bit flawed to me.

Myke Hurley: And I feel that, I don't think it's young people either. Like, is he saying that every single person of his age in his office, and maybe you can speak to this as well, Brad, is adequately, to our standards, stationary supplied?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I would think the younger people are actually more adequately supplied than probably the older people who don't care, who are so ingrained and just used to grabbing the big ballpoint out of the office supply cabinet, and, you know, the Ampad, Legalpad, or Stenopad, and not giving any consideration about the tools that they use, where the younger people, I would think, in my opinion, would care about that stuff more, even though they're not going to be the ones buying the bulk quantity. And that's actually my hang-up about the article, is the Staples business model of the bulk purchase. I do think that's going away.

Myke Hurley: Well, I think it's the change in all of these sorts of business models, with the issue being, is it's moving to online. Like, if you look at Blockbuster, we have HMV in the UK, which is a massive music retailer that's gone bust, like, twice. The video game industry. What it is, is it's taking retail, and the retail is being, like, cannibalized and eaten alive by the online sales channels, because it's cheaper. So, this isn't saying that, oh, the pen industry is doomed. Right. It's more that the old guard is going away.

Brad Dowdy: Right. And that's what I think. And, you know, I mean, they're probably not willing to do it, but, you know, I think there's changes that could be made in these types of retailers that I would love to see. You know, I, of course, would love to see more niche sections in these retailers instead of just the mass. You know, I always complain about, you go in, you know, you go into Staples today, and you go into Staples six months from now, and it's the exact same picture. I mean, you take a photograph, and it's the same products on there all the time. There's never anything new. You know, it's the same four packs, eight packs, 12 packs of pens. And, you know, that, you know, people aren't, if you're not an office supply manager, which is what this article is saying, you know, that seems to be the biggest customer that's buying in bulk. Well, if you're not that person, you don't want to buy all this, these quantities. You want to test out some smaller stuff or one or two pens at a time instead of six or eight. And, you know, I think people would spend more, you know, if they had a little bit of different setup. And one of the ideas I had was, you know, it hit me when I was opening a package from Jetpens one day, and I don't even remember the name of the marker, the marker I bought. But it's not the only one. I get a lot of the pens I get that are Japanese come packaged individually, but like in a single package, like with a hanger spot that would go on to like a pegboard in a store. So why can't there be a section in Staples that's just loaded up with individual pens, you know, on a pegboard that are individually packaged for people to test out and for, you know, to buy individually? I would argue that I would buy more in pens if I could buy six individual varied pens than a pack of six pens. You know, they can charge me more for that individual pen. Instead of charging me, you know, $10 for six, a six pack of pens, they could charge me, you know, $14 for six individual pens. And I'd be more, I would be more than happy to pay that because I would get more variety. But it seems like in the US, I put, I posted this out on Twitter and got some good responses. I said, would this, would individual pen packaging like this work on US retailer store shelves? And we'll have a link in the show notes to the picture that I shared and asked the question about. It's basically just, you know, a single pen in a single hanging package, but it was a zebra pen. Do you think, Myke, that would work in a retail situation, a big box retailer situation like a Staples or just some huge store?

Pen Packaging

Myke Hurley: I think, I think a more interesting question for me, moving away from how they're packaged, but just sold individually for a decent price. I think that, I think that there could potentially be some benefit and some merit in that. I mean, I think if you were to say to me, you know, if you gave me the keys to Staples and said, fix this problem the way that you think, what I would do is I would start selling, I would shrink the stores down significantly. Right. I would start selling more products like this. So, you know, obviously some import stuff would be nice, but probably not even necessarily import stuff, but just some cool product that are maybe more individual and selling things by color and stuff like that. So, you know, you'd have a bunch of single black pens, blue pens, green pens, you know, by a bunch of different type. And then I would beef up their online bulk order process and bring the cost down by making the bulk order all online and make, you know, and then like sort of discounts along that route. But if it was possible, you know, I mean, jet pens managed to do it, you know, cold pens managed to do it, to sell import materials for a cheap price. So I'm sure that a company like Staples could arrange with Japanese retailers to do something like this if they were willing to do it. Um, because I really do think that the average person is more willing to try out fun little things if they look appealing.

Myke Hurley: Mm hmm. Um, and if they see a bunch of really cool looking pens of loads of bright colors that they might be willing to give one a go.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I think there's no doubt. And that's exactly what I would like to see. I don't understand why a company like Pilot doesn't take a very inexpensive pen that is a very good quality pen like the Uniball Sino RT or the RT1, which is the new model, which is even better. It already comes in, you know, 10 or 12 colors.

Ink Sets

Brad Dowdy: They generally offer, you know, a three pack of black, a three pack of blue, and then maybe a three pack of one black, one blue, one red. And that is, that's if you're lucky. I mean, normally it's just a three pack of black. I mean, you have to be lucky to get those other two things. Um, they're generally impossible to find. I don't see why there's not an individual purple or an individual green or an individual orange that, you know, if they're selling this three pack for $5, they could sell the individual pens for $2, $2.50. It's a higher margin. I mean, I know the packaging would cost, there's some packaging costs individually in there, and there's some shelf space considerations. I don't think they're that great to where, um, it would be a deterrent. And I just, there's just so much more they could do to make the in-store experience better for consumers that aren't office managers. And like you say, these people that are, if they're selling to office managers, these are the people that need to be buying online and they're buying online anyway. They're ordering from, you know, their online catalogs. They're not going to the stores and picking up, you know, getting a shopping cart and dumping, you know, 10 dozen pens in their shopping cart. And I mean, I guess maybe a few people here and there, but these people are ordering online, like you say. So in the stores, they obviously need to be shrunk down. Um, they can keep the, the same pens they already have, but I don't see why there's not a dedicated space to even the most basic pens like the RT and having, you know, these individual colors for people to try. I don't, I guess I don't understand why that can't happen. That's, that's what I've never been able to understand. Um, you know, I'm not a business person, you know, I don't run any of these companies, but you know, that's, that's the kind of things that get me, would get me into the store more where I'm, I'm to the point now where I don't need to go to Staples, right? None of us do. People that listen to the pen addict, I mean, they go, you know, randomly here and there, but they're not, we're all not running off to Staples and talking about the, all the new cool stuff we got at Staples, right?

Brad Dowdy: I think once in a blue moon, you'll get some new pen, you know, like, like the Acroball finally hit the shelves this year, which we knew was coming. That was a good, you know, good thing. But man, it's the, the, the turnover or the churn of new products on the U.S. and I guess worldwide office supply store shelves is just tragic. And it, it burns me up to no end that, you know, other people aren't getting in, getting to have all the fun that we are just because they don't know when they could go try some, you would think it would be easy for them to try something and get them hooked on, you know, a new kind of pen or a new color or things like that. I don't know. This is something I've never understood from the get go and which that's why I started the blog because I couldn't find the pens that I wanted here in the U.S. and not a lot has changed. There's been a few changes, getting the pilot G-Tech C on the shelf and things like that, but it's been minimal at best. And it seems like a secondary thought for all these companies, which, you know, I guess doesn't surprise me. I mean, they're in the, they're in the business to make money and we're in the business to find fun niche items that we like. So I guess never the, never the two shall meet, but I sure would like to see some middle ground.

Myke Hurley: I mean, we can just keep enjoying it. I mean, there's a kind of a part of me where I'm like, hmm, it would be cool if these places did this stuff, but I then wouldn't want my little retailers to go out of business. You know?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. No, I agree with that too. And, you know, and I don't, I don't think it would really affect them at all because these, the people that would be buying it wouldn't be buying at these retailers anyway.

Myke Hurley: And it then might open even more people up to looking for these sorts of things.

Brad Dowdy: That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I mean, there's just so many people that don't know and don't have this stuff available to them. And they're missing out. They're missing out on the fun. They're missing this podcast, Myke.

Myke Hurley: And that's a travesty.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, man. What is their problem? What are they thinking?

Myke Hurley: I don't know, but we should deal with it. And that's what we're doing one week at a time.

Brad Dowdy: One week at a time. One pen at a time. One listener at a time. And we're going to get the good pens and paper in your hands and hopefully give you a more enjoyable writing experience. That's what we do. But I didn't rant too bad today. But it's something I've been thinking about for a while, just kind of doing this individual packaging type of thing. I actually had some people that thought that it probably wouldn't work in their situations. And I can understand that, too. There was some good conversation on both sides of the discussion. It was a good discussion that we had on Twitter. And we'll have all the links in the show notes. And yeah, I think that's a wrap, mate, if we want to talk about where we can find us and find these great show notes that I keep referring to. And credit to you. I tweeted out last week. I don't know if you saw it or not, but props to you for putting together such a comprehensive show note listing.

Myke Hurley: That's what I'm here to do, my friend.

Brad Dowdy: After our episode last week with Ana, I had to go look up something that we talked about. And I went and looked and it's like, Myke had all these links in that we talked about as we were going. I was like, wow, that was impressive. So I gave you some Twitter props last week. So good job by you.

Myke Hurley: That's another one of the good things when we've got a guest is I can concentrate on just listening and getting the links together. Yeah, I was impressed. You did it. We do have something new, though, this week, Brad. What? Which people can find over on the show notes page. It's a 5x5.tv slash penaddict slash 63. And that's new artwork.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, yeah, that's right. Gosh, I almost forgot about that.

Podcast Design

Myke Hurley: So our fantastic designer at 5x5, Jory Raphael, who is at Sensible World on Twitter, if you want to thank him for the awesome work, has adapted the great work that Aaron did, Aaron Maggie, with the penaddict logo. And he's made it 5x5-ified. So 5x5, we have an overarching style for how the artwork looks. And Jory's done a great job. So you can see it at 5x5.tv slash penaddict. Hopefully, your podcast app of choice has updated it. Unfortunately, some are really bad with image caching. So, for example, Instacast has not updated it for me. It's a shame. And there kind of isn't really anything you can do. Some, if you sort of resubscribe to the show, so if you delete the show and resubscribe, it will show up. But some, it can be a bit dodgy. It's a bit dodgy. But you can go and marvel at the 5x5.tv slash penaddict page to see the great new art.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, it came out fantastic. I'm really happy with it.

Myke Hurley: It's one of the ones where the more I look at it, the more I love it.

Brad Dowdy: That's exactly right. I thought the same thing.

Myke Hurley: So there you go. You can go find that. And if you want to catch up with Brad online, he is over at penaddict.com and is at dowdy, D-O-W-D-Y on Twitter. No, that's on app.net. And he is dowdyism, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M on Twitter. I am imike, I-M-Y-K-E. Thanks for all of the feedback and the tips and just the general love that you send over to us. It really does make recording this show even more fun to know how much you guys are involved and enjoy it. And we love to get that sort of stuff. So thanks for doing that as always. And Brad, we'll be back next week, will we not?

Brad Dowdy: We will be back next week.

Myke Hurley: Brilliant. So thanks again for listening. Thank you, Mr. Dowdy, for joining me.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Thank you, Mr. Hurley, for allowing me to join you.

Myke Hurley: And thanks to all of you for joining us while we were joining each other. So until next time, bye-bye. Bye.