The Pen Addict 482/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	482
Title:	It's a Medium Nib, It's Fine
Release Date:	October 6th, 2021
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 482
Audio File:	Audio Episode 482
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 482
Length:	6161 min <br />1.017 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 482. Today's show is brought to you very kindly by our friends over at Pen Chalet and Harry's. My name is Myke Curley and I am joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad.

Brad: Hey Myke, how are you?

Introduction

Myke: I'm good my friend, how are you?

Brad: I am very good. We have a very interesting main topic today. We actually have a singular main topic, aside from all the other, you know, junk that I put in here and, you know, stuff I don't really, you know, all that kind of stuff. Fun main topic today. I'm excited to get to it. Are you? Yeah, because I worked hard on it. You did! I've never seen so many Myke notes in our show talk before.

Myke: It's happened before, I'm sure. Allegedly. I did more notes than this when I did the theme system episode, I think.

Brad: Yeah, probably. Probably. You know, I do keep an archive of all of the docs. I can just go back and call it. Do you? I did for a time and now I kind of don't do it anymore.

Myke: Well, Google has it. It's all there. It keeps an entire revision history, which I think is a very cool feature.

Brad: I did it for a time to make sure I had the STPAs, like not duplicated or actually, you know, in the doc from doc to doc kind of thing. But now I think I've got it now. After 482 or 481 episodes, I'm pretty good on the system, I think. Right. I think we're good. I trust myself now. So, yeah.

Sponsor Announcement

Brad: Yep. First up, I want to announce to our listeners that once again, good friends of the show, Catherine Palmisano and Michael Harris have put together the Pen Addict Slack survey. And we call it the Slack survey because that's where the idea generated. Right. Catherine and Michael and a bunch of other people in Slack. You know, the questions come up frequently in the Slack. You know, how many pens do you have? How many inks do you have? What's your favorite brand? And they thought, you know, maybe we could put together a survey and kind of collect some of this information. You know, there's no, you know, real ulterior motive other than fun just to kind of see what's out there and what, you know, what's the demographics of this community like. Right. And, you know, how many pens do people really have? And they've done a great job of doing this survey. They've done it twice now. I believe this is the third year. So we'll have the link in the show notes. I would love it if you all would go fill it out. You don't have to be a member of Slack. It's just called that because that's where the idea was formed. And what happens is they will run the survey for a couple of weeks, collect all the data. And then, you know, I don't know, a month from now, whenever they get the time to collect all of the data, they publish a big PDF and presentation. And we all get to check it out. And it's just kind of a fun. We've always enjoyed seeing the results of the survey. You know, my favorite result of the survey is always, like, the age group, even though, like, I'm skewing to the older age group now. I love how many young people are into this stuff now. And seeing these numbers, like, reflects that, even though, you know, it is, you know, our thumb's on the scale a little bit about where we're publishing this. Right. Like, we're doing a survey of pen addicts by pen addicts. Right. It's not like it's necessarily a wider public ranging, you know, fully official auditable survey. But it's fun information. And I think it's really cool. And if you want to know what last year's looked like, I found the show episode where we talked about it, Myke, where we went through the results and have the links to last year's documentation and the video of them sharing the results. So I think it's a cool project. And I love that they put their time and effort into this. And I think it's cool.

Myke: I'm looking forward to it.

Brad: Yeah. So I got a preview of the survey. I went and filled out mine, like, in the test survey. I wonder if I need to fill out it again, like if my information was deleted in the test run. So we'll see. I'll make it fill out again. Change my answers this time. Really mess them up.

Myke: Really, like, throw a spanner in the works.

Brad: I'll say, let's see. What would I change? All bald nibs. Yeah. That's, yeah. What's your favorite nib size? Double B. Yeah. Instead of EF.

Myke: Yeah. I only own green inks. Just all green inks.

Brad: Yep. Yep. So that's the kind of questions you can expect. Like, literally, what is your preferred nib size? Like, that's one of the questions. So, yeah. It's really good. It's really good stuff. So fun stuff to do. Always fun to see the results. And, yeah. So thank you to Catherine and Michael for, again, once again, doing this. It's really, really great.

Myke: You wrote a review of the Jetstream Edge, which is a micro-tip version of the Jetstream in a different body.

Brad: Yeah. So I find this pen particularly interesting for me in particular. Particularly particular about this pen, Myke. It is a premium Jetstream, if you will. That's a good $15. Yeah. It's a $15 pen. Right? So they redid the idea of the Jetstream barrel. And I think that's where we get the Edge name from. I don't know. I mean, I guess it's edgy. I don't know. It's a definitely upscale version of the Jetstream. And the design is just awesome. I just, I completely love this pen, how it looks, how it feels, how it writes. And they came out originally with a .28 Jetstream. And just for reference purposes, when you're talking about ballpoint type inks, those lines in a Jetstream, when you say .28, it's really, the line is finer than that. Right? To where if you had like a rollerball pen that was a .28, the line would be wider. Right? The line would be more like a .4 line where the .28 Jetstream line is like a .18 line. So not a lot of people are going to be into this. Right? It's fine. It could be scratchy for some. I don't find it to be, you know, scratchy at all. But like, I get it. Like, people who aren't used to those sizes should avoid this pen. But the issue with this pen, and I've let Jeff review the first couple that I've had. Jeff Abbott, who writes for The Pen Addict. I've sent my first ones that I got to him to review because I like to get that other perspective of like, when I know for a fact I am going to love this pen personally, I want someone else to do it first. Right? Because like, what value is saying like, this is a Brad pen? And of course, Brad loves it. Right? So I want to get another set of eyeballs on it. I do that with a lot of products. And so Jeff, you know, reviewed it, and he liked it. And he likes that micro size. Like, he doesn't love it like me. But he's like, hey, this is pretty good. The one problem, the one kind of confusion I had with The Edge, and this has been since the beginning, is they chose to make a premium barrel pen and use a multi-pen refill. Now, the problem with that is, if you think about it, multi-pen refills are generally small. Small capacity, narrow diameter to fit, you know, two to three refills in a singular pen barrel. And this is a full-size pen with a full-size barrel and uses the tiny multi-pen refill. And I'm like, I'm paying you $15 for this pen. Can I have a real refill, please? And right now, the answer is no, because that's, one, that's how they built it. But number two, the full-size refills, they don't have in the needle tip design that they use for the Edge or for the multi-pen. So, I don't know why they went through the engineering of designing this pen without engineering, which would be a simpler engineering task to make a full-size 0.28 and 0.38 needle tip refill. Like, they have the technology just embiggen the multi-pen refill and let's go, because it's kind of a letdown when you're spending that much money on a pen to have just kind of a, it's a great performing refill. It's just a sorry size and it kind of confuses me.

Myke: I don't even know why they would start with the multi-pen refill. It just seems like a cop-out, especially when they do have for the point, there is a 0.38, right, in the standard size. Right. So, like, why don't they just use that one and then create a 0.28 as well?

Brad: Well, yeah. Like, I don't know if it was an aesthetic thing, like they wanted the needle on there, but, like, if they've already made the needle really technically smaller in the narrower multi-pen refills, why can't they make it for the standard and replace the conical tip? I don't think anyone would complain if it came out with a conical tip, but, yeah, I think my conclusion was, like, they just backed into it. It's like, hey, we have this. Let's make it around there, and we can go even finer since we already have the 0.28. But there's nothing in this pen that's weird enough to not contain a full-size refill, but you can't modify it to do that because it's built to use the shorter multi-pen refill. They attach differently on the inside. But it's almost like they over-engineered the pen to use a worse refill when they actually could have simplified it and just maybe changed the tip. I don't know. Who are we to say?

Myke: Who are we to say?

Brad: Hmm.

Brad: Who are we to say? I am here to say, Myke, aside from Lamy needing to hire me, Lamy just needs to hire whoever manages their Asian divisions, including Lamy Hong Kong.

Myke: They have, haven't they?

Brad: Well, I mean, they need to bring them into Germany because they're playing by a different set of rules over in the Asian market, which is common, right? Like, we talked about this before. Like, Pelican doesn't necessarily do different branding things, but they have a huge presence in the Asian market. And a lot of the pen brands, like the, what do you call it? Like the high-end pen brands, like your Mont Blancs and your Pelicans, like are beloved in Japan. So they have these whole divisions over there. Well, Lamy Hong Kong put out a Minions set. You're familiar with the Minions, right, Myke?

Myke: Yeah, I am, yeah.

Minions Theme Pen Discussion

Brad: Yeah, not everyone might not be familiar with the Minions, but from Despicable Me. And this is reminiscent of the Pokemon set that they did so well. And they've even gone further off the deep end, to be quite honestly. But in the best, I mean that in the best way possible, right? Like last week, we had to talk about the Ideos, right? Which is your core German Lamy pen. And like the pen is perfectly fine, but it's just like the Jetstream that we just talked about. It's like you did something really cool, but you kind of copped out in the end. And I think that's what the Ideos is. Like on its own, it's a genuinely good pen, but like what does it actually represent in the product lineup that it's placing itself around with the ION and the Studio and all these other pens that it steals design cues from? Well, then you see this from Lamy Hong Kong, and it's just the most, like this is almost less about the pen than it is about, hey, let's make something wild. And I really appreciate that about what Lamy's done. Like it's based around the Yellow Safari, right? But it's got all the accessories. It's got a clip accessory. It's got this wild torpedo pen stand, Myke. Did you get a close-up of that?

Myke: Yeah, I'm also going to put in the show notes, there's a video that Lamy Hong Kong put out, which like more clearly shows what comes in the package. Okay. Like it's that you get all these different clips to put on the clip of the pen itself. There's like a whole package thing that it comes in. As you say, there's a pen stand, which has got like a rocket, which you tuck it into. It's like all of it comes in a little case, which looks like a minion. There's a minion cartridge thing, where like it's like you, it's like a plastic holder. It's like the cartridge case. It's almost just like a cigarette box, like and then you pull the cartridges out. So really interesting overall package.

Brad: Includes even the exterior packaging, like the bag that this all comes in. Yeah. It's like all one completely thought out from A to Z packaging. It's like, here you go. And you just, it's fascinating to me that this is the same company that we, that I sometimes, I sometimes, you know, they get under my skin. And again, it's out of love. Like I love them so much because I see this and I'm like, yes, like this is, this is the way. And I would like some of this to translate differently in the core product offerings. Not a lot. Like I'm not asking for much. I don't think with my, with my, my love and discussion around Lamy. I really don't think I'm asking for much, but man, how great is this? Like this is just crazy good execution on like a product tie-in and, you know, say what you will about that. And like the, the consumerism aspect of it and the, you know, the money grabby aspect of it. I just think to have this as part of your company is cool. And I would like to see a little sign of life out of Germany to, to make me think that they want to, you know, play in this, in this modern world that we all live in as well, instead of giving me, you know, a parts bin, pen like, like they just did. So anyway, I love, I love it. I think it's fantastic.

Myke: I like that you said Lamy.

Brad: I caught myself after I said that. And I was like, I'm like, that's what we'll get emails about, Myke. Lamy. Lamy. Lamy. Lamy. So we won't get emails about other things, but pronunciations.

Myke: That's what people will get on you about.

Myke: All right. Should we take our first break? Yeah. We have a lot to talk about. Yeah. We've got more products to come still. There's a lot going on today.

Brad: Oh, we definitely need to take our first break. I'm on the page.

Myke: Okay. This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Pen Chalet. You know, Pen Chalet. They have the best products, all the stuff that you're looking for from all of your favorite brands. They have all the different pen types. They have all different accessories. They have inks. They have pen holders. They have cases. They have converters, all of the stuff that you're going to want. So you can go tip to toe with Pen Chalet. They've got the whole selection and they do such great deals. They do discounts twice a month, close out specials as well. And they're always adding new styles of pens. So you can always go back to Pen Chalet and find something new to add to your collection. They have very fast, very reliable customer service and shipping. So they have great shipping rates, shipping internationally, and free shipping on orders of over $50 in the US. So go to penchalet.com, P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T.com. Click the podcast link at the top of the website and enter the password penaddict. This is where you get two things, although one thing is a lot of things. One of the things that you get is a 10% discount code that you can use to save on anything at any time over at Pen Chalet. And also you get access to a plethora of deals for Pen Addict listeners, which I think Brad is already excited about.

Break Transition

Brad: Yeah, lots of platinum, platinum action on the page today, which I find interesting that it's a lot of the standard platinum lineup, right? Like the core barrel designs, the standard black and the bourgone and the chartreuse blue and things like that. And different levels of, okay, you have your basic one, your basic black with the gold trim. Like that's a crazy good price on that. And then the platinum 3776, same pin, but with rhodium trim is just more expensive by default. And then that's discounted as well. And then you go all the way up to like having those models, but with a music nib, which is another premium. So different levels of the platinum 3776 all discounted into some really, really good price points. So definitely check that out. And then there's a whole list of other pins, you know, there's Visconti and Cross and Conklin and just a whole slew of other good deals you should check out while you're over there.

Myke: All right, so one last time, go to penshalet.com, P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T.com and use the password penaddict when you go to the podcast link at the top of the website to feast your eyes on these amazing deals. Our thanks to Penshalet for the continued support of this show and RelayFM.

Brad: We got some new stuff to talk about. I mean, the Lamy was new. The Jetstream Edge was sort of new. It was a new review, but we got some new things that are either just launched or launching soon. First up, Myke, Rotring 600 Colors. Remember last year how we fawned over the blue and red and the camo green, I guess is what they called it, and how much we enjoyed them and I thought they were fantastic. They have come back, Myke, and they, next year or late this year, they're going to launch the Rotring 600 Pencil. It looks like pencil only this time. We'll see. I don't have all the details. Rose gold, pearl white, and gold, all with like a metallic type finish. What do you think, number one, about these colors, and number two, about Rotring now coming back the second year in a row with new colors for the classic 600 lineup.

Myke: Big thumbs up on the colors in general.

Brad: Huge, yeah.

Myke: Why not? Right? And the colors they've chosen this time, it's an interesting selection.

Myke: Like, their rose gold doesn't look like rose gold to me. It just looks like rose. It's an awesome pink. Yes, it's pink. It is not rose gold. At least from the images.

Brad: Like, in these pictures, yes.

Myke: I mean, yeah, so, I mean, there's a bunch of pictures from your second stationery where, really, the rose gold is just, is pink. White is an interesting, like, to do like, like metallic pink, gold, and then just white, what looks like a matte white. It's not.

Brad: It's an interesting trio. It's not. I had the same question, and if you go to the close-up shot, you can actually tell that it's metallic, like a pearlescent white.

Myke: Okay.

Brad: Like, you can imagine. I like all three of them.

Myke: I like all three of them. I think they're all good, good options. They're very different to the first set, but it's, you know,

Brad: it's all good. Yeah. I think they're great. Yeah. I agree with everything you said. You know, they're five or six years late on the, the rose gold, white, gold trim trend. Yeah. But they've never done this before, so like, okay, like, I'm fine with that. I would, I would be even more into this if the white was actually matte. That was my number one question. I was like, ooh, is this a matte or a flat white? And it's not. I was so excited. Like, I'm still excited for it, but I think like, I would go for pink now over the white. Just if, if the white was a flat, it would definitely be the white. I like them. I think the gold is going to do exceptionally well. That's a very classic color. And it's a, it's a strong gold. It's like not too yellow. It's almost more of a brownish yellow, which I think is going to play, play, play really, really well with that market. So I had a friend, friend of the show, Evan, who's big on the road rings and went to go look at these and try to order some. They were up on Amazon Japan and he was mentioning there was no ballpoint version. Like last year, we got the ballpoint version. That's what I was alluding to in the beginning. So it might just be pencils. And you know what? I'm okay with that. If I would never think the ballpoints would do as well as the pencils. I happen to like the ballpoint, but you know, so are we going to see this every year now? I hope so. Probably. Next year. So last year, we did the pattern, Brad. Yeah. Two's a pattern. Last year, we did the darker, you know, more classic primary colors. This year, we did some of the metallic, you know, hype colors. And I hope next year we get some like crazy bright, like almost not quite neon-y, but I want to see some real, real bright stuff next year. I want to see some, you know, purples and yellows and lime greens. And if they're going down this path, they need to, let's see something a little bit really, really out of line on the tradition of Rotring. Because this company is no longer, this is not the Rotring your parents used anymore. So let's modernize it and let's go for it.

Myke: So this next link, I have not opened this.

Brad: All right.

Brad: Let me tell you what it is while you open it. This is the Sailor, this is the new Sailor King of Pen in Mandarin yellow. So this looks like the, the main King of Pen for this year. it just came out mostly, I've seen it on European sites right now, I think mostly is where I'm seeing it. So it's your standard 1911 King of Pen. And I just, I, it's not like any type of color of the year, but I just call it the color of the year when they do like the singular King of Pen. This is the mainline release, right? Not, not a regional or anything like that release. This is like the 1911 King of Pen release for the year. And, okay, go.

Brad: And done.

Myke: I don't think it's yellow enough.

Brad: Oh, I think the color is fantastic, but.

Myke: I don't know. I don't know. So I'll tell you why. I mean,

Brad: it's no tangerine.

Myke: Take, if you take a look at the grip section, you can see the, the feed through the grip section.

Brad: So there is a percentage of translucency in the barrel. Which I don't agree with. If they made it solid, like the tangerine that you and I both love and some of the other colors. Yep. It would land better because once you put the converter with a dark ink in the barrel, you're probably going to see that too.

Myke: Mm-hmm.

Brad: But, I mean, you're, you're bearing the lead here though, really, Myke. And, and you know what I want to say.

Myke: What?

Brad: Oh, the price? It's almost $1,000.

Myke: Yes,

Sailor King of Pen Price Discussion

Brad: it's 840 pounds. So, the conversion on the site right now is $972. I'm sorry.

Myke: The, the regular retail price, the RRP, is 931 pounds. Which is,

Brad: there's a reason Sailor's getting less coverage now because it's a less compelling product from a price, from a price point.

Myke: the, the RRP is $1,264. Yeah. I mean, it's probably VAT in that, so take 20% off, but, so over $1,000 is what they

Brad: think this should be. The minus VAT price I, I have converted is $972.30. It's $1,000. Let's just call it for,

Brad: it,

Myke: it, it's, I don't think that these are $1,000 pens. Like, I, the Sailor King of pen is an $800 pen.

Brad: I would, that's even a stretch, like.

Myke: But that's how much we paid for them

Brad: in the past, right? 7, 780. I mean, we've paid in the sixes before, but now we're into like a, this is a problematic area. I, I mean, maybe not for Sailor, maybe they're selling them, but, oh boy, like, it's, it really makes me feel uncomfortable.

Myke: Yeah, no, this is bad. Yeah,

Brad: so, this is, this is, like I said, this is your standard 1911 King of pen, which I think is a great shape. I have the tangerine in, in this color, and I, I love it, but I don't $1,000 love it. Boy, what could you do with $1,000? I, I'll be interested to see. So, Sailor did that big discount a month or two ago to clear out some of their old stock, I, I'm, which they've never done before. To, have a full, clear product line delineation with the, the new pricing. And I wonder if we're going to start to see some discounting on the new pricing if retailers are unable to move these at, at what they're asking for here. So, we'll see, it's something to watch. It's something I'm watching. So, we'll see. Um, it's, it's a lot. You know, I, I like the color. You know, I love the King of pen. I am not in that market anymore. And it was already like outrageously expensive. I just don't need another one at this price. Right? So, I don't need all the King of pens for a thousand dollars a shot. So, there you go.

Brad: Speaking of capitalism, wasn't this entire show.

Brad: I would like to point you to the new spoke icon releases and the new spoke axle releases. We finally got our new color, our barrel colors up. But most exciting for current customers, um, is the addition of our new grips and pin sleeves, if people are so inclined. So, we're happy at spoke to have made kind of a modular fountain pen where you can mix and match some parts. But we didn't have, you know, we're going through a long process, right? Yeah. So, we now can have a barrel with more color choices. So, we've added, um, British racing green. You, you, you're playing right to me there, aren't you? British racing green. Gun metal. Gun metal gray, cobalt blue, and lime are the new barrel colors. And then we added in grips and sleeves, in brass, and in titanium, and in brushed. And, there's different options now for our standard concave grip, which I really like. You can now get that grip with a groove at the bottom to have a better gripping area and less concave. Or, you can get a straight-sided knurled, grip. So, you can buy all of this stuff independently, right? And build, kind of build your own pen. Like, we're setting it up to where you can really customize it. Like, I'm using a British racing green pen with a brass grooved grip and a brass inner sleeve. So, it, like, changes the weight of the pen. It feels fabulous. So, um, people have been asking for these grip updates for a while. Um, some people thought they were a little bit too curved or a little bit too slick. And this is, uh, one of the ways we, we, uh, we changed it up a little bit and let you pick. And they come in a lot of colors, right? You can do different anodizing colors and things like that. So, we're having fun with the spoke stuff and it's looking great.

Myke: Oh, it's looking really great. Uh, I love these new colors and, uh, offering more, more, more parts for the modularity aspect is really cool. Yep. Really.

Brad: And now breaking it out so you can buy those things separately, right? Yeah. We had to start to where we could manage it and see how it goes at first and kind of kit everything up. And now we're, we're going to make it so you can customize, um, some different parts and add on some different parts. Um, at the end basically. So yeah, it's cool. So that just, uh, dropped yesterday. I know everyone was excited about these grips. So I wanted to mention that and they, they, they turned out well, obviously. I mean, heck, I mean, I'm part of the company. Of course, I think they turned out well, but they, they really did.

Myke: Well, you're doing a good job over there.

Brad: All right.

Myke: All right. Let's take a second break and then I'm going to get into talking about, about something that I've been up to. Yep. Sound good. Sounds excellent. All right. This episode is also brought to you by our friends at Harry's. If you're heading back to the office, you know, maybe it's time to start thinking about getting back to that fresh, clean business. Look, Harry's can help. If you don't know Harry's, it's time that you do. Harry's was created to be different from other shaving companies and they craft high quality, long lasting blades, durable weighted handles that make a close, comfortable shave, quick and enjoyable. And because Harry's insists that you shouldn't have to choose between a great shave and a fair price, they just give you both. With refill blades starting as low as $2, it's an easy decision. And new Harry's customers get their starter set, which includes a five blade razor, weighted handle, foaming shave gel with aloe and a travel cover. So a $13 value, you get all of that for just $3. Plus Harry's offers a whole range of amazing face and body care products all delivered right to your door, right to Brad Dowdy's door, right?

Brad: The blades are the best. Like that's the key, right? They give you this awesome shave. I, I mean, here's, here's what happened in my house just yesterday is I'm, I'm in the other room and I just hear Brad. And it was my wife. She was, um, you know, in, in the bathroom preparing, you know, for her day or about to take a shower. And she needed a new blade for her handle. And I stashed them because, you know, they're so good. Like you gotta, you know, you gotta, you gotta treat these blades with the respect, right? You can't just be flinging blades around everywhere. So I had to, I had to get her one out of the stash and then she was, she was very happy about that. But yeah, they're, they're the best. That's why the, the entire Dowdy household is, is all about the Harry's blades.

Myke: You should go find out. For yourself, why these are so great. There's never been a better time to try Harry's. Go to harrys.com slash pen addict, and you can get your starter set for just three bucks. It's 100% satisfaction guaranteed. So you've got nothing to lose. Go to harrys.com slash pen addict right now to get your hands on this special offer. That's H A R R Y S. Dot com slash pen addict. Thanks to Harry's for the support of this show and relay FM.

Brad: Ooh, boy.

Myke: So some time ago, some time ago, I think this was actually back in January. a friend of the show, CY, Tokyo station pens, wrote a great blog post called the anatomy of a stacked nib. I don't know if we spoke about this in January, but we, this is, we spoke about this post, right? Like we went through, spoke about it and linked to it.

Brad: Yeah. Then I think they talked about it, uh, him and Jacob on the Tokyo Inklings podcast. And, you know, basically the, the question came up about our, what are our thoughts on these stacked nibs? You know, would they work for us personally? So, yeah, that's kind of how it got started. Just us thinking about them commenting on their blog post and podcast, and then us thinking about it.

Myke: And I think we were talking about some of the sailor ones.

Brad: Yeah,

Myke: for sure. And so, you know, at that point I was intrigued because I, I've always seen these and I wasn't too sure about them and was like, Oh, you know, one day I think I would like to try one of these things, but I, you know, I don't really know where to start. Um, I think it was back in June actually, maybe.

Brad: Yeah, it was, I know the, the, our discussion wasn't back in January. That's when his, like the original, one of his posts.

Myke: You know what? I just, cause I Googled the pen addict stack nibs as well. I was talking there. And this was an Andrew Kuhn wrote a blog post. That's what it was. The blog post. Yeah. And then we also started the ball rolling. Yes. So all of these things have been spoken about before. Uh, but this was, this was, uh, some months ago. And I was saying that this would probably be something that I reckon I'd be interested in. Cause I do like, like broad nibs. I like stub nibs, that kind of stuff. And I was intrigued about a nib that could write, you know, both sides, different, uh, line widths and stuff, but kind of came down on the fact of like, I'm too nervous to, to just go ahead and buy one of these things, especially when I can't see them, can't try them. So it was like, you know, maybe later on some point in life, uh, I will come back to this. Right. And take a look at it again. Uh, maybe when I can go to a pen shop, then, uh, some days later, uh, CY, the aforementioned CY of Tokyo station pens, uh, ended up reaching out to me and offered to be both my guide and enabler in stack nibs. We went back and forth a bit over DMs, trying to work out a little bit of what I might be interested in. Then CY went ahead and got to work on making a selection of nibs for me to try. So, uh, CY, uh, I have some quotes from CY, just, I wanted to make sure I got all the, the technical parts, right? So, uh, CY said to me, all the nibs are welded using a jewelry welder. Uh, I weld the nibs only at the tines, just like how sailor has always done it. And I do so by cutting away the rest of the nibs. The first step is to shape the two tines to be the correct shape while also making sure that the nib can stack flush to the bottom nib. So that's how they kind of put together. And so CY put together a selection of stacked nibs from scratch that I could try. Ultimately he sent me five, five, five. Well, I mean, I guess it's kind of like 10 nibs total, um, to try out. And so I received this package, which I was pretty nervous about. Yeah. Uh, it came over to me and I, and I, I kind of sat down. I was pretty scared of it, to be honest. I think I had all these nibs and they were, it was in a, uh, I think too small of an envelope really like in my mind, but they were nicely packaged.

Brad: Um, and I was like the, uh, briefcase, like handcuffed to the person who flew them over here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Myke: And it was like one of those things where like, I was excited, but intimidated. Like I put it off for a couple of days to do anything with them. You know, like I kind of looked at them and didn't know what to do. Cause it was, it's a lot of work gone into it and a lot of cost of material. We know we're talking, I believe it was like a selection of platinum. And I don't know if there was sailor nibs. They might have been platinum nibs, uh, but varying like shapes and sizes, you know, all like gold nibs. So that's a lot of expense,

Brad: right? It's a lot of materials expense and a lot of time expense. We're talking, like just the, these nibs, I mean, or, you know, three to $500 per nib, I would say something like that.

Myke: There's something I wanted to check now, which I'm going to look through the DMC. I want to see like when CY started on them and when they were shipped out to me. I think that would be interesting. So I'm going to scroll back. Yeah. DM says probably going to take a little while.

Brad: That's all right. Just so Myke told me this was happening and I said, okay, don't tell me anything else because I want you to talk about this on the show because I'm curious because this really isn't for me. Like I would test them and review them, but I really don't have any space in my library to acquire one of these pens. Cause I, one of these nibs, because I wouldn't use it enough to justify the cost, right? It's not my writing style, but the people who do enjoy these nibs, like Andrew, who wrote the post on the pen, I like that we'll link in here. You know, that's like his style. Like he loves exploring this type of writing, this type of nib, this type of technical work and craftsmanship. And like, it's a very unique thing. And I was glad that Myke kind of leaned into it a little bit because I don't think that I would have done it justice because it's not really like, I know me and my writing style. And it was like, you know, I don't think I would do it justice to talk about it.

Myke: So the process that the conversations began in the beginning of July and they were shipped out at the end of August. So it was the best part of two months for this whole process. Yeah. And there was one nib in here, at least I'm going through it now, which was a triple. Most were doubles, but there was a triple. Okay. And I do think that they were, were platinum nibs. They were all platinum nibs. CY. I just remembered, CY actually asked me whether I would want to try sailor or platinum or I said platinum, which I think he was happy with because I think it was, it was better for him to work on those.

Brad: Yeah. I think he has better access to them. And plus he wanted to know, Hey, what's like, if you did like these, what type of pin is it going to go in? And you kind of had an idea.

Myke: Yeah. And so we went through that together just to make sure that it would, work out. So I had these five nibs and I didn't really know what to do with them. Like what I knew I didn't want to do was put them all in pens. I knew I didn't want to do that because I wasn't confident that I had five pens that they would go in well and work well. And I didn't want to ink them all up. I was worried about like damaging them, honestly. Right. Sure. Sure. Because I had to ultimately put these things into pens. Right. So I was pretty nervous about that. Like I know how to do it. I don't have a ton of practice with it, but I also like, I don't know, like are these more delicate? Like I didn't, I didn't want to mess around with it. Right. Right. So what I ended up doing was I, I took the nibs themselves and I just bit them into an ink and used to hold it. Cause they all came in nib units. Right. So they were all like, you know, they were all with, with nib units and I would just drag them across the page.

Brad: They had like the feed and the collar and the housing was all there. So yeah.

Myke: Yeah. So I just like dragged them across the page and like checked it out. Right. Like how does this feel just from a basic level to like, does this feel like something I might enjoy using? Right. So I did that a little bit as if they were kind of like dip nibs that I was holding in my fingertips. Right. Sure. And I, and I settled on a couple that I, that I really liked. I think there were three in total. And so I put them into pens, properly ink them up and gave them a fair shake and then ended up settling on two that I liked the most. And what I wanted to do was to like really give them a try over a couple of days of usage to see if I would like them or which I would like. I ended up going above them. So I have two. I bought two of them. Nice. I think it just makes more sense for me to say that now so I could talk about the rest of what I did.

Myke: Yeah. And so I had like the three that felt good and I ended up picking two of them after a day or two. Okay. And I, and I picked a couple. So the pens that I decided to put them in, I really wanted to put one in my fancy, my fancy platinum, my 3776 galaxy starlight. this is the one that had the broken nib. And it was always a nib that I was never as pleased with as my other 3776. The nib was really nice, but I believe it was, it may have been fine or medium, but it just didn't feel as good. Like it just wasn't a smooth feeling. It was great, but I preferred my nice LILAS to the galaxy starlight just from a, just a pure performance of nib. Yeah. You know what it was? That was medium because my nice LILAS is a broad and, and I think that it was a medium, but it was like a, uh, like a firm medium. I think that's, is that what the, the platinum have that where it's like,

Brad: not medium fine. They have a soft fine. I don't know if they have a medium. I think they, they might have a medium fine. I don't recall. Right. But anyway,

Myke: it's like a medium nib. I don't, obviously don't have it in front of me now because it's got this stuff and they've been it instead. Um, and so, and then I also went with my canalea Haleakala silhouette, which is the yellow and black and gray. Nice. Uh, because I knew that these would fit both, uh, both platinums and also the, the whole nib unit itself would, would be YOWO compatible. So I kind of decided to just choose between the two of them. Uh, Tony's saying they do not have a medium fine nib. I don't know. It's a medium nib. It's fine, but it's, yeah, as in like, it's okay. Yeah. It's not, it's not as nice for me as the experience I get from my broader one. So nib one. So I've got, uh, I've got images in the show notes. I took some photos with the new macro option on my iPhone. Uh, nib one. I've got, let me, let me, uh, explain to you. This is some information that came, uh, from CY. because basically I, I said to him, like, I'm not going to accurately understand or like accurately describe these nibs. Mm-hmm. So I asked if he would help me with a description of them. Like, I can tell you what they feel like to write with, but I, I didn't, I wanted the like recipe as it were. Yeah. Right.

Brad: Cause I'm looking at the side shot of this nib and I have no idea what's going on. Exactly. It's amazing.

Myke: Right. Yeah. They, they, they are serious, but I don't, I can't really explain to you how they're made. So that's why I asked for help. So this is the first one. This is this one, uh, with the music nib as a base is tentatively called the pyramid of Mount Fuji. This was fun for me. Cause I put it in the silhouette, which is a mountain in Hawaii. Nice. So it had a kind of mountainy vibe. It's made by layering a coarse nib onto a music nib. The stacking method is done by flattening the top of the music nib and flattening the bottom of the coarse nib. The difference in the number of tines creates a maze like stacked tipping, which gives ample area for ink to pool between the tines. The triangular shape gives some variation when writing quickly and is well suited to create the teardrop triangle shape for Chinese or Japanese characters.

Brad: I mean, this has me more interested than I ever thought I would be in getting a big, broad stack nib like this. This is fascinating to me. I mean, I know we got a long way to go in this, but just like, see why. Thank you for giving us like the time to, to put this together and all these descriptions and just to help us learn about this. It's like my head's exploding over here in like a really good way. Like I, I am now like starting to see what's happening here and it's really kind of blowing my mind.

Myke: So you'll see there's a reason that I ended up choosing the two that I've chosen because they have slightly different characteristics. So this nib for me, I don't know if it's intended to, to do this, but for me, it doesn't really work very well flipped over because, you know, like a lot of music, like stacked nibs. They're like made in such a way that you can use them all both sides. Right. I'm not sure if that was an intention of this or maybe it was never intention of CY for this to be done. But what I like about this nib specifically is it lays down the chunkiest of lines. It is amazing. I currently have it inked with Sailor Ink Studio 141, which is a really great yellow. And it, I believe this will be like, if I ever got an ink and I want to show some shading in that ink, it's this one. Yeah. Because it, it lays down a lot of ink, but not in an unmanageable way. Right. Like it really does a very nice job of giving me a controlled thick line. Like it's not like the page isn't soaking wet afterwards. Right. I can still write in a normal notebook with this. You know, it's got much more control to it than even say a stub nib. But at the same time will give me a lot of ink variants. So I think it looks fantastic. People in the discord are asking for an example of what it looks like on a page. I will do that in a little bit. So I'll show you like both, both of them. So I'll put a link to that in the show notes too.

Stack Nib Experience

Brad: So you can see how they look. I think that's important. What you mentioned, right? You just don't want this to be like a flood of ink. You actually want to write with it. Yes, it's going to be larger and wetter than like some of the lines I'm used to, but you also, it's not like you're dipping a paintbrush in a can and just throwing ink on or paint on a page. You know, you want it to be usable and manageable. And it sounds like that's exactly what you got.

Myke: So, and it just, it feels just like, it's so smooth. smooth and it's just like a dream to write with. I think it's amazing. It's really great for me. Like, you know, I like, you know, I quite like a fountain pen that almost feels like a felt tip pen, you know, like it's a permanent marker. You know, it's just like this huge nib. I like that. I think they're fun to have. They become like statements, you know, like I do, you know, like I've said this before, like I try and use a couple of pens a day. And sometimes I use just a pen as like to write a headline with like the title of a page. Sure. And this is like perfect for that. But I also, I've written in my journal in this, like I've done all my daily journaling with this pen. If I did like, it's, as I say, it's very manageable, even in its chunkiness.

Brad: I love it. I love, I love how excited you are about this. Also, I'm using it right now. Yeah. You chose, you chose a great base pen, like both of these base pens, like they, they deserve like these types of nibs, right?

Myke: Yep. Yep. I'm very, very happy with it. I'm now trying to remember how to spell the word silhouette. Oh, yeah. It's like a whole different issue that I'm dealing with.

Brad: Yeah.

Myke: So that was the first one. And so very, very happy with it. It's a beautiful, beautiful pairing. And I love this ink, by the way, this Sailor ink studio ink.

Brad: Yeah, that's cool. Like if you can find a good, like yellow ink, those are not easy. Like I have one kind of go-to, um, that I love. And it's amazing how much you, you don't think that it would work, but it actually turns out to be exceptional.

Myke: Yeah. Like yell. I struggled with yellow, finding a good yellow ink for a while. So I was happy when, uh, I didn't know found this one because she was going through it all. So nib number two is the one that is in my 3776 galaxy starlight, uh, which is a very special pen for me. Uh, I have more of a description here from, uh, straight from CY. The second nib is a standard cross point, which I made by stacking two coarse nibs. I use the hook method here, grinding the top tines into a hook shape and the bottom tines into a block shape. So I think this is made for this flipping around, right? This is how sailor makes their cross points too. And it's much more difficult than the flat method. This gives for a natural variation for Chinese, Japanese, but it's also designed for, to be smooth for Western writing. So I was, one of the reasons that I chose the canalea was because the caps are large. Mm-hmm. Because one of the things that CY had mentioned to me of putting a stacked nib, uh, into a regular pen is that the cap might not fit. And right. He warned me to be careful when I was trying them out, you know, cause I could damage something. Right.

Brad: Sure. And like some caps have inserts in them, like some platinums, you know, have like the, the seal in there too. And, you know.

Myke: So this one actually does have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The little insert in the cap. So I was, I was pretty, but I was pretty nervous to, to try it out, but I wanted to give it a go. Right. Um, and I also, when looking at them physically, this is the smaller of the two nibs, you know, which, which kind of makes sense. Uh, so I figured, okay, this one will probably, probably go pretty well. Uh, and so I think this ended up being the better choice of the way that I've done the two of them anyway, because the music nib makes a much larger line. So it felt right to me to be in a physically larger pen. Yup. Right. So there was just like a, something in my brain that make, made sense of that. Now this nib, this, the, the cross point nib that we've got here, um, you'll see in the writing sample, I've used it on one direction and then the other. So nib two cross point is written in the, standard kind of direction. And I flipped it over and wrote down 3776 galaxy starlight with the nib reversed.

Myke: This nib is the best nib I own by far of anything. This is going to be an expensive episode. Oh, it was for me, my friend. We are two of these things.

Brad: This writing sample, um, really helps. So I, I implore people to check out this writing sample in the, in the show notes, even like the really large one in the canalea that I would never under any circumstances buy for myself. I like how it writes. Like I'm looking at your letters in this and I'm like, that doesn't look like it came from a fountain pen. No. And I mean that in a good way. Yeah.

Myke: That's what I want from it. You know, it's weird and different in that way, but you're right. This one, it kind of does look like it came from a marker pen.

Brad: Right. But nib number two is like, okay, I can see fountain pen in this and I could see, okay, that could be something that I would use with the two different, um, you know, the two different, um, you know, writing styles and angles. So gosh, ah,

Myke: because what, what I love about the, the, the cross point one, which is in the 3776 is both like, uh, sides of this nib, the front and the back in case, you know, I didn't explain this correctly. You have the regular way that you write with a nib, but then with pens that are made to do this, this nibs that are made to do this, this is one of them. You basically turn the nib upside down right on the opposite end of it. And so you end up with a large, uh, side and a fine side, like a broad side and a fine side. Right. So those are amongst the best writers that I have.

Brad: Yeah. So real quick for people who, who are not necessarily totally into the fountain pens, what this does is gives you a, gives the maker enough area on the, on the nib, right? There's a large enough platform to essentially have a double sided nib. So when you turn the pen upside down, there's enough room to have had that part of the nib managed to write in a different way than it does if you were writing with it normally. So, yeah, that's so cool.

Myke: These are really amazing. I'm so happy that I did this. These two pens right now are like my, just my favorite pens to use that I own. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah. That's the ticket. And, uh, see why does amazing work. And this is just, yeah, I'm, Myke, I, I had no interest in this whatsoever. And like this, this is not a bit. And I, I, I think I'm, I probably need to try one for myself.

Myke: I mean, those look great. They look great. I don't know. Can you do like two different fine ones? I don't know.

Brad: Do you want that? I would do there. There's some styles in some of the sailor styles that have a real kind of a turn down. I don't know the names of them. I won't pretend that I know them without looking them up, but there's one where like they, they really kind of hooked down, not like a posting nib, but really more like a, almost more like a beak style. so yeah, I would look at something like that. And then you, that would be like your primary writer. And then you would turn it over and that would be your wide line, right? To where like, you think of it pointing down, holding it in the normal shape, then you flip it upside down. That's going to be your wider, almost like an architectural style with line on the top. So yeah, I can't think of the name, but they're out there. I'm interested.

Myke: I'm interested. These are expensive. Yeah. As you would imagine. The cost is the price of materials. And for CY, it was $200 per welded layer, right? So you're buying two or three gold platinum nibs. And then for each welded layer, you would play, you pay an extra $200 for the time. Cause this is a, which I actually think is worth every penny because yeah, this cannot be easy by any stretch of the imagination to achieve. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah. I have no issue with the cost of what these are. Like it's a very specialty item done by, you know, someone with a specialized skill and, and then just a flat out material cost is expensive. So yeah, these are no joke. So I'm glad you did this. I think it's a really great platform, like nib platform for you in particular. And now I think I might have to think about dabbling myself. I need to, I need to, I need to do some more research on like writing styles, right? Like I'm not going to get it to not again. Like we talk about this. I have too much stuff. We all know this, but you still like your, your, your buying decisions. You can't be spending this kind of money if you're not going to actually use the thing. So, you know, consider, consider your purchases. And that's what I'm going to be thinking about.

Myke: So I tell you like what it's done for me, which maybe this resonates with other people like that. The 37 is 76 galaxy starlight was a special pen to me, but it, it wasn't one of my best writers. Yes. One of my favorite writers, but it was a pen that was very special to me. This has now elevated that pen more like this very well. I mean, I don't want like a recency bias thing to affect it. So I'm not going to say it, but this could be now contender for my total top spot. Number one pen.

Brad: Right. And these are the, these are the types of things we talk about once we get into right. Once we get past the basic, you know, stationary talk, you know, is this a good gel ink pen? Right. The elevation of a product like the jet stream edge for me is a big deal, right? It's taken something that I love, changed it, modified it, and made it even more special, even though that comes at a cost. And even though the costs are wildly different between that pen and something like this nib, that's what these types of things, this is what I think about, you know, as we, as I go through like my day to day stuff, like what changes are being made out there. That's interesting to talk about, you know, what kind of, who is, you know, pushing things forward with like design and feel and elevating the things that we already love. So there, there's a lot of that in this community and that's what I love about it so much. That's what keeps me going.

Myke: Yeah. I'm so pleased I did this and I am so thankful to see why for being so patient with me and the amount of like handholding that had to be done, honestly, like to get me to understand what on earth I was getting myself into, uh, was very, very kind of him. Uh, and also as well, of course, the work is amazing. Yep. Um, uh, honestly, I don't know if this is something CY wants to do.

Brad: Yeah. I'm, I'm like, uh, like, should we tell people to email him or tell them to not email? Well, I mean,

Myke: the thing was like, he didn't, basically, I would just say if you, if you were interested, reach out to him and maybe, uh, maybe he will. I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, he didn't, I did ask him, can I say you did this? And he said, yes, please do. So my assumption is, uh, I reach out and then maybe if he has the time and, and the, the inclination, uh, maybe, maybe he could do that for you too. Yeah. Yeah. Probably not going to get all the handholding that I got though. I mean, to be fair, uh, you might have to go in on your own a little bit.

Brad: You are a special case.

Myke: I sure am.

Brad: Oh man. I am awesome. This, this worked out great. I didn't know where this was going to go and I, I loved every minute of it. So yeah, fantastic.

Myke: Yeah. I really recommend people go and check out the images that are in the show notes, uh, which will be, if you know, your podcast app of choice should have the links in there. If not, you can go to relay.fm slash pen addict slash four, eight two. I recommend I've got images from the front of the nibs and the side of the nibs and the writing sample. I think it really helps for this discussion to, to go pick, take a peek at those as well. I think it would help understand what's, what's going on with those. And there are three more of these things that got passed along to somebody else here in the United Kingdom. I had a forwarding address to send them to.

Brad: So maybe we'll see, maybe we'll see some, uh, further content created around, uh, those nibs. Who knows? I have a guess. I have a guess.

Myke: I was pretty pleased to send them just in the UK because I knew I could send them like, and I sent them like really like to, to be carefully handled kind of thing. I wasn't super excited about like sending them overseas. I was worried. Cause these things are so scared of them.

Brad: Just what I talked about in the beginning is like, man, shipping right now is a mess. Yep. I think shipping's a mess. So yeah, good deal.

Myke: All right. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the pen addict. Uh, I would like to thank, uh, both Harry's and Pen Chalet for the support of this episode. And of course, thank you for listening. Uh, if you want to catch Brad elsewhere, you can go to pen addict on Instagram. Dowdy is on Twitter. He is Brad on micro. Blog and twitch. TV slash pen addict, uh, Tuesdays and Thursdays at 10 a.m. Eastern and Wednesdays, kind of just after we finish our live recording a little bit after we finish. So you can check him out there, uh, on Twitch. You can go to knock.co spoke design.com and check out all those wonderful new colors. Uh, if you're not a fan of me online, I'm I'm Myke. I am Y K E. And you can go to cortex, much.com to buy yourself a theme system journal or a subtle notebook. Go check them out. Uh, we'll be back next time until then say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.