The Pen Addict 481/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	481
Title:	Fully Precedented
Release Date:	September 29th, 2021
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 481
Audio File:	Audio Episode 481
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 481
Length:	5656 min <br />0.933 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

'Myke: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 481. Today's show is brought to you by the Canalea Pen Company. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad. What's up, buddy? What's up, Brad?

Brad: Um, the big number we've raised for St. Jude. That's what's up, like literally like up through the atmosphere.

'Myke: Like, I want, which number should we go with first? Let's go with the Pen Addict number first, in case people didn't catch it, and then we can talk about the, uh... Okay. The overalls. The big number, yeah.

St Jude Raffle Results

Brad: So, through the raffle for St. Jude that I ran through the Pen Addict blog, and with everyone's support, we collectively as a group raised $40,850.

'Myke: Yeah, buddy!

Brad: Oh man, it's so good. When you look at last year, and last year blew my mind, and we did $11,030.

'Myke: Uh-huh.

Brad: I don't even know how to mentally account for this, like for like what happened. And then, that mental accounting translates into the big number, right? Like, I'm just happy. Like, I'm really, really happy that we were able to do this. I'm happy for everyone who supported us.

'Myke: Yep.

Brad: I'm happy for, in the Pen Addicts case, for all of the makers and friends who donated prizes to help us, like, shine a light on this cause that we all at Relay FM support wholeheartedly. And I'm just thrilled. So, yeah, we wrapped that up last week.

'Myke: Uh-huh.

Brad: We got the final tally. I got all the raffle prize winners picked Monday and emailed everybody. So, now I'll be in the process this week to start shipping out everything. So, everything went really, really smoothly. And that was a big number. I was just amazed putting that together and like tallying it up. And it just kept going. Incredible. It just kept going.

'Myke: It kept going. Yeah, so good. Like, blown away. I was, I'm absolutely, everybody is just blown away by that year over year increase. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, we could report the amount of money that we raised from the Pan Addict community. Like, it really is. There have been a lot, I'd say this year, there have been a lot of big surprises like this. Mm-hmm. And this is just another one. Yeah. I'll tell you real quick why we're doing this. This is the last time we'll talk about it because September is about to end. September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. For the third consecutive year, Real AFM is supporting the life-saving mission of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, which is finding cures and saving children. St. Jude leads the way that the world will understand and treats and defeats childhood cancer and other life-threatening diseases. But this is something they cannot do without the help of people like you. Because of generous donors, families never receive a bill from St. Jude for treatment, travel, or food. Because, look, all a family should have to care about when they're going through such a terrible thing is just keeping their child alive. For context, the average cost to treat just one child of acute lymphoblastic leukemia, the most common form of cancer, is $203,074. To make this possible, about 80% of the funds that are necessary to sustain and grow St. Jude must be raised every year from generous donations. Donors like you. This September, the Real AFM community has come together to raise over $600,000 for the kids of St. Jude. We're currently at $630,000, which, I mean, it's not as simple as this, but that's three children whose entire, you know, with lymphoblastic leukemia, that covers their entire cost.

Brad: Yes, that's an enormous amount, yep.

'Myke: You can be a part of our best year ever simply by making a donation. Go to stjude.org slash relay, and you can make a donation there. So stjude.org slash relay will help support St. Jude. Thank you so much for everybody who's come along on the ride of us this month. It's just, you know, I've had a lot of, like, little personal moments over the last few days. Last night was one when we passed $600,000, and then got to, like, and then I woke up this morning, and we're at $630,000. It's, the money just keeps coming, and I cannot tell you what it means to everyone, so thank you.

Brad: Yep, it's really, really great. And, yeah, thank you for shepherding all of us through this, you and Stephen and everyone at St. Jude for, you know, for getting in and working at this. I love doing this. And making a difference.

'Myke: Love doing it. Can't wait for my life to go back to normal.

'Myke: We talked about that a lot behind the scenes, you and I. It takes up our entire September. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah. It's a lot, but I'm so thankful. You know, it's kind of happy to do the work if this is the result, you know? Exactly. Exactly.

Brad: Exactly. All right, you ready to talk about some pins? I sure am, bud. For the third time, we are now, well, I am now bringing up the Kaweco Premium nibs.

'Myke: Yeah.

Yoseka Pin Review

Brad: Our first time was the press release saying, hey, this is a thing that's coming. The second time was Yoseka Stationery saying, hey, we got them. We're going to do a test. We'll let you know how it goes. And now we can talk about that test. So Ashley at Yoseka Stationery wrote up a fully detailed article that you just need to go read. If you're interested in this at all, which I obviously am. Okay.

Brad: I'm still trying to wrap my head around this, right? Y'all know where I've stood on this. And I'm trying to make the case for these premium nibs at the premium price. So just a couple of notes from Ashley in the review. It's a very long, very thorough, very well done comparison of these products.

'Myke: I kind of couldn't believe, honestly, that there would be this much to say. You know? It was surprising to me.

Brad: Yeah. So the main takeaway, the quote's up in the beginning, and this is a quote from the article, and the rest will be my commentary around this. Clear difference between the standard and premium nibs with the premium nib feeling like a high-quality smooth nib, right? So that's like a subtle kind of thing saying there is a difference. And the difference is it's smoother, and you paid more for that, right? That's how I read it, right? It's like saying, yes, technically, it's better, right? It's better. So the differences between the standard nib and the premium nib is that the nib tipping is bigger on the premium nib. That's the selling point.

'Myke: Mm-hmm.

Brad: But as Ashley found through the review, that was only visually obvious on the bigger nibs. Which makes sense, right? Medium broad and double broad. Well, here, I will get to my point.

'Myke: Okay.

Brad: It's like, so the medium broad and double broads, you see the big tipping be even bigger than it was with the standard. So do you not, you don't see it as much on the extra fine and fine. And I'm wondering why that is a little bit. But I guess the answer is you have to keep those lines the same. Even Ashley's test, even though not visually seeing a difference in the premium nib, tipping-wise on an extra fine nib, the line writes wider on the premium nib extra fine size, despite being visually different. I mean, visually not different, if that makes sense. I kind of went around about there. So you can't see a difference in the extra fines, but the premium nib writes a wider, or writes, excuse me, I got this backwards, writes a finer line. Mm-hmm. They're more consistent, is basically what Ashley gets down to in having an accurate representation of the stamping on the nib. An extra fine writes like an extra fine with the premium nib, where an extra fine standard nib could have some more variance. Like in Ashley's test, she says the extra fine writes more like a medium with the standard nib, where the premium nib always writes like an extra fine. The much more consistent line weight with the premium, a stiffer nib with the premium, a wetter nib with the premium. So there's all these differences, right?

Brad: And I'm still trying to figure out why, right? Like to me, all this, to me, this, what this is like, hey, we tried harder to make on these nibs. We worked more on these nibs, and we're going to charge you for it. And I get it, but my stance is, why aren't you treating the stock nibs the same way?

Brad: And I'm delimiting that, because then they would have to raise the price of them, right? This is Kaweco admitting, ah, we could probably do a little bit better with these stock nibs.

Brad: And, but that would just raise the price, because it does take more time. It costs more to manage the nibs. Like that's a not insignificant amount of time to make a better nib for the stock nib. So it's almost like they're saying there's a, this is how I read it. And y'all please tell me if I'm wrong. To me, I've never thought this is anything, but hey, we're not doing a good enough job at our stock nib. And if you want to yell about that here, we can charge you more for an option to fix that. And that just doesn't sit well with me. Like, am I out of line here? Like, I feel like I could be. What's the price difference? About $30. It's like $12 to $15 standard and $44 for the premium. If they just, if they put out the premium nib, this is what I would have liked to have seen. And this is, this is a pipe dream by me. I know. And this is probably not fair. But if Kaweco is going to come out and say, we're going to give you a premium nib option where you can just buy the nib, make it a non-standard nib. Don't give me extra fine, fine, medium, broad, double broad. Give me a cursive italic. Give me a 0.9 stub. Give me a needle point. Make it more special. And you could charge even more. Then you're talking like a $60 nib unit. But then it's different. And then the improvement and the variety and the quality matches what you're telling me. Right now, I don't think it matches what they're telling me. Right? I don't think this premium nib tells me. It doesn't make me comfortable with their stock offerings.

'Myke: Right. Right. Okay.

Brad: This price point is what Estabrook is doing with the journal or nib. Right? And I forget the name of the second one that they released with JJ Lacks. Right? They're charging a premium for something different. They're not charging a premium for an improved stock option. And that's what I feel like this is.

'Myke: I think I'm not understanding you fully. Okay. I don't think I'm on the same page as you. That's not a surprise. You're saying you're charging more for a stock option, not something different?

Brad: Right. I don't think the reason why this nib exists. Okay. The premium nib, in my opinion, exists because their stock nibs consistently underperform people's expectations.

Brad: Okay? You with me there? This is just my opinion.

'Myke: Okay.

Brad: So, people buy a Kaweco and it's sometimes hit or miss whether their stock Kaweco nib is going to make them happy. Okay. So, how does Kaweco solve that?

'Myke: This isn't solving that.

Brad: They're positioning that it is.

'Myke: But that doesn't make any sense. That's my... Like, how much does a Kaweco sport cost? How much does a Kaweco sport cost? $25. Right. So, a Kaweco sport costs $25. People buy that pen for $25 and they're unhappy with the writing experience. No one's going to solve that by spending one and a half times more the money to buy a different nib.

Brad: We agree.

'Myke: This is... Okay, cool. I'm on... Now we're on the same page. I get you now. Okay. Because it's... I think where I was getting lost is like we've called... Like we're calling it premium and calling it stock. Like I was thinking... Yep. This is not a solve for that problem.

'Myke: I think... Honestly, I think what Kaweco should learn from this is they need to charge a little bit more for their pens and include this nib as the standard nib.

Brad: Yeah. That's not going to happen. No. The way they positioned it now, it's not going to happen. But yes, correct.

'Myke: It seems wild to me personally just with how I buy pens to spend one and a half times the price of a pen and it still be steel.

Brad: Mm-hmm.

'Myke: Right? Like that's... I mean... No disrespect to steel nibs. I much prefer gold nibs. Much, much prefer gold nibs. Yeah. Especially because I am a medium above. Right? I think... Right, right. If you're going medium above, in my opinion, you should always go gold first because the softness, I think, helps with the experience. Just my personal preferences.

Kaweco Premium Nib Discussion

Brad: Right.

'Myke: It seems wild to me to like, no matter what the price level is of the pen, to spend that amount... I mean, honestly, just to spend that amount of 1.5 times on a nib anyway, you want to be walking away with something real special. But I think you're right. What you're getting here is a decent experience, but that's what you should have got at first.

Brad: Yes. We agree. I just didn't do a great job.

'Myke: No, I don't know. I think that that might have been... I think that was on both of us.

Brad: I'm in one of your roundabouts over there, and I'm Big Ben parliamenting it.

'Myke: That's a very interesting sentence that you just came out with.

Brad: So, yeah, I mean, I don't know. It exists. Like, here's the... I'll put a bow on it, finally. All of us Kaweco fans, we're going to buy one of these nibs and find out for ourselves. And I think that's probably it. Like, this is not like a needle move type of situation. This is more of a... This is more of giving Kaweco an option to say, you don't like it? Here, try this. And pay a very premium price for it. And, you know, that's kind of it. I'm still just genuinely confused by the positioning of this product more than, like, the technical aspects of it. So, I'll get one. I'm sure a lot of people will get one. And I just... Like, it's going to be fine. And it's just... It's not a $44 repeated purchase type of thing. I'll buy 10 more Kaweco sports before I buy a second premium nib.

'Myke: What is, like, an expensive Kaweco?

Brad: Like, what's the AL sport? Like, their core, like, premium pin is, like, $75, $80. Like, the ALs and the Steels and the Brasses range from, like, $65 to $95. And then they have a few, like, carbon fiber ones, like $125.

'Myke: And what nib do they come with? The same. The same. Yeah. See, that's where I could maybe argue it, right? If you got yourself an all-brass Kaweco sport because you just love that design, right? And you've spent $100, $150 or whatever.

'Myke: Not the worst thing in the world for me to then spend $40 to get a better writing experience. Because I've done it at that kind of price, like, thing, right? Yeah. Like, spent 50% of the cost to get a better nib. Yeah. But still, I think you should go a little extra maybe and get gold, right? Because they do gold nibs, right? They do sell gold nibs.

Brad: Yeah. They do. They're really expensive. I mean, they're fairly priced. That's just... That's a mega premium. Like, again, I have one of those. And it was... I want to say it was like $125, $140. They make all their own, right? That's the problem here. Well, I mean, their nibs are made by Jovo and Bach.

'Myke: Okay. See, I thought they were making their own.

Brad: Well, it's complicated. We've actually covered this before.

'Myke: Well, really, really, they're like... It's their design, but they're fabricated. It's like... Correct. That's correct. It's like Apple don't produce their own chips.

Brad: That's correct. That's a good way to put it. They design it. They do not fabricate it.

'Myke: But Kaweco will be probably paying more per nib because of this themselves. So, I mean, like, that's probably why it's more expensive in general, because they just don't have economy of scale.

Brad: Yeah.

'Myke: I feel like they're kind of walking themselves into a very awkward corner here.

Brad: Exactly. So, my argument would be at this, at the AL price point and up, you raise the price and include the nib.

'Myke: I agree with you completely. That makes a lot of sense. Because that's a premium product anyway.

Brad: For them, yes. Then we can have a more sensible conversation.

'Myke: You have the entry nib in the entry product, premium nib in the premium product. Easy. Easy.

Brad: But they didn't present it that way. No.

'Myke: It's just very strange to me, personally, for a company to ship steel nibs and then offer an upgraded steel nib. That's not typically the way this stuff goes.

Brad: That's why I'm stuck on this so much.

'Myke: Yeah.

Brad: It doesn't matter. Like, this is just one of those things I get stuck on because no one does this. Brand, it does matter to us. It matters to us, right?

'Myke: This whole show is that it matters to us.

Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, no one does this, to your point. Like, no one ships a steel nib and says, here's your steel upgrade option.

'Myke: It's always gold, right? And then it's like, how much gold? And then what plating do you want on the gold, right? It tends to be the way it will go from steel, right? Right, right. Very strange.

Brad: So, yes, I thoroughly enjoy this.

'Myke: My hope, honestly, Brad, is that this is the start of a slow transition for them. Like, that they're selling it, and then eventually it's going to find its way into the product. That would be nice.

Brad: I would be down with that. That would seem logical to me. I would rather pay $125 for a steel sport with a premium nib than buy, like, a classic sport and an additional nib.

'Myke: Hmm.

Brad: You know, it just makes much more sense.

'Myke: Should we talk about something that makes a bit more sense?

Brad: Oh, yeah, because we're going to lose the plot again right after.

'Myke: Good. It's a good sandwich. This is a scent sandwich. The meat of this scent sandwich is the Canalea Pen Company, who is supporting this week's episode. Canalea Pen Co., they make stunning pens. I'm actually using one today. One of my personal favorites, the Haleakala, which is the yellow, black, and gray one. The front cover pen. Yes, the one. Cover boy. I actually own the one that made its way onto the front cover of Pen World Magazine just out of pure luck, because they said, pick the one you want. This was at the DC Pen Show. And I said, I would like that one. And so, you know, I have good tastes. But I have, I think me and Brad were talking about this before the show today. I think I own six Canalea pens now, because I just can't stop myself from wanting more of them, because they are so special. Also, the company is run by just the best people, Hugh and Carol. They believe that the locations that they emulate in the designs of their pens can help recharge our spirit and connect us with nature. What I know is that their pens, they give me joy. And I think that's kind of it, right? And while the story behind these pens is wonderful, is the execution that sets them apart. Every single Canalea pen is handmade. And because of the way that the acrylics work on the colors, it's done in a process which means that no two pens will ever look alike. That's why one can win, you know, could be on the front cover of a magazine and Myke can get it. And every nib is tuned, hand-tuned by Hugh himself before, they're smooth and tuned, every single nib before it ships out to a customer. So what you get is something truly unique for you. It is very artisanal in that way. I want to remind you about their newest launch, the Manta collection. This includes the Manta Maile Lei fountain pen in the classic profile, the Manta fountain pen in five design profiles, and the Manta ballpoint pen. These feature a charcoal black and luminous green swirling acrylic featuring Canalea's trademark depth and complexity of acrylic design. It's all based on the Manta Ray. And the Manta Maile Lei model features Canalea's Maile Lei anniversary band made of Argentine silver, which is adding something a little bit extra to this very beautiful pen. Canalea pens feature Yowa No. 6 nibs. You can buy steel or upgrade to 18 karat gold nibs direct from Canalea. And they have sizes from extra fine all the way up to 1.1 millimeter stub, not meter. I've done this again. I think I did this last time. Wow. 1.1 meter stub pen. Good job, Canalea. They offer sizes from extra fine to 1.1 millimeter stub. I deleted one M from my ad copy here, and it freaks me out. Not only are these pens handled personally before they leave, they're shipped in a beautiful black walnut keepsake box. I tend to not like and keep pen boxes, because they just take up space. I keep every Canalea one, because they're just these beautiful wooden boxes. You can put things in them. Fantastic. There's one thing more I want to talk about. But the Canalea pen company have made the difficult decision not to attend the Chicago pen show this year. So like they have done for some other weekends in the past couple of months, they will be offering a special promotion on their website during that weekend. So from October 1st to 3rd, customers in the US will get free UPS ground shipping with the purchase of a fountain pen with no code needed. And international customers will get $25 off UPS shipping by using the code ALOHA25OFF at checkout. This is available to all countries that Canalea ship to. So that's ALOHA25OFF for $25 off UPS shipping if you're international. And it's free shipping, free UPS ground shipping for the purchase of a fountain pen for customers in the US. And Hugh and Carol look forward to seeing everybody again next year.

Brad: All right. I have two Canalea things. One is something I've said before, which the feel of the Canalea pen like in my hand is one of the most cool, unique feelings, enjoyable writing experiences. Like I'm sitting at my desk recording this. Like if I spread out my arms and swept everything towards me, I'd probably like, you know, grab like 30 pens here and just like scoot them all towards me. I could pick out the Canalea pen blindly based on how it feels in my hand. It's unique in that aspect. And it's not something that you would think of necessarily. Like if you haven't handled these pens before, if you're just seeing them online, they have this unique feel to them in the way they're polished and finished and the shape of them. Secondly, Myke, I'm going to tell a secret about Hugh. I don't know if you know this, but if you see Hugh in person, he oftentimes, at least I've caught him a couple of times. He uses basically like a shop floor model ballpoint pen for his personal pen. Like when he's at shops and at the shows and has to write something real quick. This is something all of us makers do when you're making a product that you love and you make this great product. Well, you want your customer to have this product, right? You want to make sure your customer has all the things so you don't like kind of, you know, hoard one back for yourself. So he basically has like a reject barrel ballpoint pen that he uses. So Hugh, one of these days, I feel that you can upgrade that pen and get into one of those cool Canalea pens like the Manta.

'Myke: We should let him know that those folks, they make great products.

Brad: Yeah, this guy's pretty good. Pretty good.

'Myke: So go to Canalea Penco today, canaleapenco.com, I should say, to choose your aloha. That's canaleapenco.com. Go and see these wonderful pens for yourself. A thanks to Canalea Penco for their continued support of the show.

Brad: We're going to keep it in Germany for our next segment, Myke. We went with Kaweco first and I have to talk about not one, not two, but three new Lamy products that have crossed my screen at least over the past week. And three very different opinions I have on these three products. Let's start with the easy one first. So the first one is the Lamy Zivo. Okay. This is X-E-V-O. You pull up this picture and you go, oh, that's a Lamy pen, right? You look at it and it looks like a Lamy pen, right? Like if you saw this pen at the store, that's what you're thinking. I would wager if you're, you know, any type of pen fan at all and they're familiar with Lamy's products. So it's a ballpoint pen, you know, standard like black barrel, silver clip. It looks nice. It's got some interesting shaping at the end of the pen on the, where the clip attaches. It's kind of tapered in. Then it has a little bit of a triangular, rounded triangular grip area section. It's really good. Like, can you imagine like this not being a Lamy pen, right, Myke? This, this seems like a Lamy, but I would, I would like to read their ad copy on this or their marketing copy, which I enjoy. And all I have to read is, is three words when they are, they themselves are describing the Lamy Zivo as in unprecedented form. So I feel unprecedented is not what I would consider this pen from Lamy. It is purely a Lamy pen. Like this is not unprecedented.

'Myke: No, it's impossible to believe.

Brad: It's fully precedented.

'Myke: No.

Lamy Zivo Pen

Brad: I don't understand. It's just one of those Lamy things that I giggle at. I was like, are you, I like, this is like every Lamy pen ever, which is great. Like I'm in, like I'm in on the Lamy design style. This is not by no means unprecedented in Lamy's, in Lamy's pen lineup. So I find, I find that funny. Technical perfection. Yeah. The kicker here, Myke, why I actually love this product the most. If you scroll down all the way towards the bottom, I don't know if you notice this. Eight euros. Whoa. This is an entry level pen. That's entry, entry level. For Lamy, yeah, they rarely have anything under 10. So this is like a 10 US dollar pen. That's less expensive than the Tipo ballpoint, which I love. This is, this has a chance to do very, very well. Like I will be anxious to get one of these. Right now it only comes in black and gray. Again, unprecedented colors from Lamy, Myke. Unprecedented. Unprecedented that this just comes in black and gray with silver clip.

'Myke: Well, it's 262 black and 262 light gray in one word. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. It's the unprecedented nature of it.

Brad: I'm all in. I'm all in on the Zivo. I will be getting one of these. I'll probably be getting multiple of these because these would be a great pen to give away. Great pen to give to other people. And I think it's just cool. And if it does well, and this will relate to a future topic that we're going to talk about after this Lamy bit, that I could see some options with this pen. Right. This could be a platform type of product like the Tipo or like the Pico or like the Safari or some of these other pens. I think it's fantastic. Like everything about it looks great, especially the price. If they said the price was like 30 euros, I probably wouldn't have blinked either. You know, 25 euros, whatever. So it seems good. I think they're on the right track here. Next up, Myke, is where they lose the plot for me. And this is where I don't handle what Lamy is doing very well. And this is a product called the Lamy Ideos. Right. I-D-E-O-S.

Brad: I saw a link for this pen. This is like, it's like in the pre-order stage. It's coming next month. I saw this link. And I kind of lost my mind because it takes everything that already exists in the Lamy Studio, the Lamy Ion, the Lamy Scala, and like kind of jams it into one pen. And I hate it. Because they already do it. And they arguably do it better in other products that they already have. This is basically like I'm calling it the Studio Plus. So it's an aluminum barrel, smooth grip, fountain pen with a cap that posts on the end of the barrel instead of sleeves down on the barrel like on the studio. And it just makes absolutely no sense in their product lineup whatsoever. However, it is, I'm not going to say it's like a terrible design, right? Like the design is fine, but it exists. Like this is not a new product that they're trying to pass it off as. You know, like the main feature is the teardrop shape on the cap, Myke. Like that's what they're selling you here. They're selling you a Lamy Studio with a different cap and like the Lamy Aon shaped nib with the rounded shoulders on the nib and the Lamy Scala with the posting of the cap. And I dislike it. Not from a techno perspective, but from like an idea perspective. The IDOs is a bad idea. And I, what are they?

Brad: I'm more particular about this than a lot of people.

'Myke: The IDOs doesn't feel new to me. I feel like I've seen this. That's the point. Yeah. That's my point. Okay. It is, but it feels like, yeah, I just figured I'd seen this. You know what it is? Yeah. It's like this.

Brad: You actually completely got it without you realizing that you got it.

'Myke: I thought, because what I was going to say is, oh, haven't we spoken about this already? But no, this is the point. So it's kind of, yes. And it looks like the CP1 quite a bit. Sure. And also the logo and also the ION and also the 2000.

Brad: Yeah.

'Myke: And the studio. But like not in a good way.

Brad: You got it, Myke. All right. Cool. You really, really, like legitimately, that's what this is. You have, this is a new pin from Lamy. But you've seen it all before.

'Myke: It looks like it's got a bit of a different design element. It's like, seems like triangular shaped, maybe?

Brad: The cap, the teardrop is the shape. So. Right. Distinctive interpretation of Lamy's design principles brings the basic forms of the triangle and circle together to create a surprising yet natural teardrop shape that offers a unique haptic writing experience. So the whole thing is around this teardrop shape, which that's just like, man, don't try so hard.

'Myke: Okay. I get it. Teardrop, not triangle.

Brad: Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Teardrop. So.

Brad: That's a challenging product, Myke. That's a challenging product. Yeah. It's basically just a mashup of a bunch of their other products and teardropified, I guess.

'Myke: Don't know how I feel about that one. That's a thing.

Brad: It's like, if you like this, but want a normal pen, buy the Lamy Studio. The Lamy Studio is one of the most underrated pens on the market. I will stand by that.

Brad: It's just a great pen.

'Myke: I expect most of Lamy's stuff is underrated because the Safari and Ale Star are so good. Yeah. So people don't really pay attention to everything else that they do.

Brad: Yeah. This is just like this weird fountain pen mutation is what this is. It's the Lamy mutation. That's what I feel like this pen is. All right. Last one in this Lamy section, Myke. This one caught me actually more off guard than the Zivo entry-level ballpoint and the weird Ideos is, and this shouldn't have caught me off guard, but the problem is like it just, you know, what if you launch a product and no one knows about it? The Lamy X Neo Lab. So this is the Lamy encode digital slash analog writing experience.

'Myke: Didn't we decide that that meant buy?

Brad: Which? Oh, yeah. Lamy buy. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. I just like saying that. But yes, it doesn't really translate when I say it out loud.

'Myke: People don't say buy anymore, but that is what that means, I think.

Brad: Yeah. Yep. Or it's like a collaboration. So anyway, this is Lamy's digital pen offering. I swear they've done this before. They've done like the Wacom styluses.

'Myke: Yeah, no, that's a totally different thing. Yeah, that's a different thing. So they sell the styluses. I don't think they've ever done a product like this before. Yeah. I don't think they've done this. This is purely Moleskine's like bag. Like they live in this place, you know?

Brad: Right. Right. This is Lamy doing it because they feel like they have to do it.

'Myke: Yes. Well, they should. I actually do agree with this point. I agree. I agree. What I will say, I mean, obviously I've not used it, but from a visual perspective, this might be the best offering because-

Brad: I would 100% try this.

'Myke: Their pen just looks like a regular Safari. Now, most of the time, they don't, right? Like if there's a pen component, the pen-

Brad: It usually looks like the scribble pen.

'Myke: Yeah. It's got something going on, you know? But this pen, I mean, I can't tell from looking at it, but it looks like it holds the same dimensions as a Safari. The only difference is like the way it's shaped makes it look like a fountain pen, right? But it's actually like a- Is it gel pen?

Brad: No, it's a ballpoint. It's a ballpoint refill.

'Myke: Because it's got the camera hidden behind, or the sensor's hidden behind the nib.

Brad: It needs the space for the- Yep. So it needs the space for the sensor underneath your writing tip. So it does require the notebook, right? These things work in conjunction, right? You can't- This isn't the product where you have the pen and then you like scan it with your phone or you do something else. So-

'Myke: I believe Moleskine have gotten away from that. If my memory serves, they make a pen product that doesn't need the special paper to work, I think.

Brad: That's what I thought too. So this one requires- Let me read this one little technical part about the sensor. It says, The optoelectric sensor reads the encode pattern printed on the paper of the Lamy digital paper notebook and recognizes handwriting on the pages. The Neolab encode sensor reads the codes from the blank surface. The processor contained in the pen performs the complex mathematical calculation to locate the pen position on the page. So these two things have to work together to get your output digitally. So if you're looking for an exquisite pen performance, you don't buy these products, right? But if you're looking for a transcription of your handwriting into a digital form, well, then you buy into a full system, which is what this is.

Brad: It's interesting. It's like, I think it's $150 to get into the set. I'd have to look at it. This one actually doesn't list the price on the page.

'Myke: The issue with all of these things, though, is they have a companion app, right? So that's the whole thing. So you're writing this, and then everything you've got going on gets saved in the app. And again, it's like, how good is the app? And I remember the last time I tried it, which was a couple of years ago, the Moskine stuff was all pretty good.

'Myke: They've clearly been working on it. I like that they have this little thing in the Lamy one where you can choose the color that you want it to look like in the digital version by using this little bookmark. I think that's kind of cute, right? It's like bridging the gap. Right. I mean, I said it before. Actually, by scrolling quickly through their website, I think it might just be my dream that Moskine have an option where you don't need their paper, but I think you still need their paper for their smart pen. But their pen, again, I haven't seen it in a long time, also looks really good now. It was good, yeah. Have you seen it recently? Like, it looks just like the Moskine pen, the one that you clip on the inside of the book, the flat one. Right. It looks just like that now. I mean, and it didn't before. I do like this. So I think you still need the whole thing. For me, this stuff's never going to really land until you can actually just use whatever pen you want. But frankly, like, no company's ever going to be able to make this the way that I want it anyway. And also, going to be honest, after all this time, I don't know what the utility of this is. Because phone cameras are so good now. They just have built-in scanning functions. And now, like, if you combine this with the iOS 15 live text thing, there's no reason to use a product like this anymore. Because now you can just put your incredible phone camera over the top of the page, take a picture, and then copy and paste the text out of it. Like, at this point, I think that phones and software is moving so fast that these pen products are just becoming more and more obsolete.

Brad: I agree. Like, I think Lamy's come in on the wrong side of the mountain here. We're on the downslope now. We're going downhill on this. Like, there was a little peak there where, you know, you could get in and get people interested in a product like this. And then, like, the Moleskine, when they launched it, that was probably, like, kind of the peak because they did it the best. But if Moleskine can't make it work and have that stickiness that gets into people's systems, like, using a system like this is cumbersome, right? It's defined in that you have a specific thing you have to use to make it work. But it's cumbersome in actually using it to have the paper and the charger and the pen and the refill and checking the battery and making sure the uploads are good and having an app. And all of these things. And it's just, you know, a few years ago, I was hoping we could get there to where it would be a more universal product. And now I just think we're on a slow burn of the eventually going away.

'Myke: Yeah. I don't know for this world, I don't think. But I will congratulate them on making a product that looks good. It looks good. Yeah. They did it good. If they were going to ever come into this world, now was the right time. If it took them until now to get it basically all to fit inside the guts of a regular safari.

Holiday Season Products

Brad: All right. So Lamy's been busy. I guess all this stuff is getting ready for the holidays, right? The Neolab thing launched, like, it looks like a few weeks ago, maybe in August. And it was completely off my radar.

Brad: So, yeah, I guess they're getting these few products out here for the holiday season. Twizby's up to something, Myke. They're always up to something.

'Myke: And I think you're coming around now on our friend the Twizby swipe.

Brad: I have. I have.

'Myke: This is the spring-loaded pen. The pen of all the springs. Spring-loaded pens.

Brad: Yeah. I was... So the reason why I've come around on it after actually being able to use one for a while is the spring thing isn't a selling point. It's just a good pen, right? Like, it's a good pen independent of the spring. The spring is extra.

'Myke: The spring isn't a selling point. The spring is a necessity, I think, for them to get their design to work for whatever reason. I don't think they sell the spring on this one. Like, the Twizby Go, the spring is the selling point, which is why the pen's clear. On the swipe, the body isn't clear. So I think it's just the way that they've engineered it. They need it. I don't know.

Brad: But Myke, we're in a global pandemic of people dropping pens. We need the spring. It's mandated that we use the spring.

'Myke: When people say we're still in a pandemic, that's actually what they mean? Yes. It's the pen dropping is the real problem in modern society today.

Brad: But no, now that I've got it in hand, I've got the spring in there, I've got the cartridge in there. It doesn't matter. It's just a legitimately good pen, right? And that's what I wanted to see when I got it. Like, spring, you know, just forget about the spring. Like, it's fine. It's in there. It's whatever. You never see it again. Like, you'll see it again, you know, when you refill a cartridge or the converter. It's just a good pen. So after using that, I felt that way. Most of the reviews coming out on it are very, very positive. And like, every time I'm seeing it now, like, I'll comment and refill. Like, when I do my ink links, I do a little bit of commentary with them. And I'm always complimenting just this pen being like, it's a good pen. And I think this is going to be, like, I was mentioning the Lamy Zivo before. This is going to be, like, their next platform pen. And little did I know it was going to be this soon, right? And by platform pen, I mean a pen that they're going to keep in the product lineup and keep iterating on it either in colors or tweak to the design, but keeping the, like, in this case, the swipe as the pen, right? So what they did is we saw it on Instagram from a friend inky.rocks on Instagram. They posted a picture of two China-only colors in a green and an orange barrel. And, like, that's what I was just saying this weekend in refill. My quote on a review, TWSBI swipe review, was, yes, it's good. Good enough that I'm looking for TWSBI to jump on the next color releases or even a tweaked version to sooner rather than later. Well, we got our colors and they're just going to run with it, Myke. Like, this, they found out quickly that this was a good pen. People liked it. And now they have, you know, pushed the go button on it. How much is it?

'Myke: 25-ish. Yeah, so good for 25. Yeah. I think this is maybe one of the first pens in a long time that I think could take a big chunk out of the Safari market.

Brad: More so than the Eco. I agree with you, right?

'Myke: Yes, more than the Eco.

TWSBI Eco Price Increase

Brad: So one interesting thing that they've done over the past couple of years, TWSBI that is, is they've slowly raised the Eco's price. And I think with reason, right? It's gone from like 28 to like 32, maybe, like for the stock models. And now that gives room for the swipe to exist, right? It gives a little breathing room to not have like a $25 pen and a $28 pen and tell people why you should buy one or the other. That price point, the percentage difference is big enough, I think, to have two different unique products. And then the Go, I think as much as TWSBI liked it and much as we liked it, right? It didn't land universally. Like it's a little bit too weird to be like a platform pen. It'll exist as it is for as long as they want to do it. But like the Swipe and the Eco and the 580, they have found something that works. And it's a winner. And then they'll just keep iterating on it. And we're starting to see that now with the Swipe very, very quickly. So I expect by early next year, we'll be able to get our hands on some new colors on this ourselves.

'Myke: Which I think is awesome. I mean, this is, I think this is something I used to mention is one of the things I mentioned is why I think this pen is important for TWSBI. They had to have an option and an entry line, which was not with an ink bottle. Correct. Because it's too intimidating for people. Yep. Because they're just convinced that they're going to spill ink everywhere. We've all been there, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so having an entry level pen that looks good, picked up some of the design language that they need, includes a spring with cartridges. You know, I think it's, I think it's, well, I think they're onto a winner with it. And I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. Like, can they get this into retail? That would be really interesting.

Brad: Yep. If any of their products could, this is the one. Like, they designed the one to do that. Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah. I completely agree.

Brad: All right. Last pen I want to talk about. This one is not new at all, which is kind of why I want to bring it up. But I was late on the Leonardo train. And I'm late on the Mayora train. And those two brands are forever intertwined because they both came from the closure of Delta pen in Italy. So Italian brand Delta, which a lot of people are familiar with, love their pens. Some hated their pens. You know, they were very opinionated pen maker in their designs. They were very large. And, you know, as they were started going downhill, they started having some more QC issues and people were getting angsty about Delta. Then all of a sudden they closed shop. And some people that worked for Delta, you know, went and started their own companies. One being Leonardo, the other being Mayora. So I finally got to my Mayora pen review. And I think the biggest thing to like start with is it's impossible not to compare it with the Leonardo. I didn't want to do that in my review. But since I'd already done the Leonardo, it was hard to not compare it to the Leonardo, at least the Memento Zero, which is the one that I use the most. But it could go for any Leonardo because these two companies have the same DNA built in from Delta. And you can see it in the end results, right? If you put the Mayora and the Leonardo on a table for someone who wasn't familiar with either brand or even fountain pens, they would think they came from the same company, right? They're that similar. But, you know, once you use them, you realize the differences, the design cues that are different, the few subtle size and shape differences. But, you know, they are awfully close, awfully close. The good thing is they're awfully close in performance, too, right? The build quality of the Mayora is good. The fit and finish, the style, the craftsmanship, the overall package and the price point. They're both in that same like right at 200, maybe a little less price point. Everything about these pens is practically identical. And luckily, they perform nearly identically as well. I really enjoyed the Mayora more than I thought. I held off longer on the model I got. It's called the Impronte. And it's a little bit wider bodied pen than the Leonardo. The center of the barrel is wider. The grip section is wider. But there's a feature that makes it work. But then the taper towards the ends is a little bit more extreme, especially the very end of the pen. It tapers more than like a Leonardo does. So it's wide in the center. But they counteract that by having a huge concave grip section, which I didn't think I was going to get along with. But apparently, that really works for my style because the Kusama pen that I have has this like just outrageously deep concave grip section. And this Mayora has the same thing. And I like it. And I didn't think it was going to work for me, but it does. So that's the main difference between the Leonardo and the Mayora pens is that grip section and that width in the center of the barrel. Otherwise, I'd be hard pressed to tell you to buy one or the other. Buy what you like. You know, that was basically the result of the review is, you know what? They're both really good. Whichever one looks better is the one you should get because you'll probably be happy.

'Myke: What's the story with the material?

Brad: The acrylics? Yeah. Mayora? You know what, Myke? I would like to find more information about that. But that's how I ended my review. There's not a ton of information on Mayora. They don't have their own website. They don't have, you know, their own, you know, kind of details and specs that you can go find out. Leonardo makes their own materials, I believe. If I'm not mistaken, I would wager the looks of these Mayora. They do the same. Or they each use the same. Well, this is what I was going to say. They are effectively the same.

'Myke: The same maker of materials. They look like they've come from the same place to me. Not a problem. Just a thing I was noticing.

Brad: The two pictures I have, the Rose Lavonde, I think, is the Leonardo in the picture of the review. And the Posilipo, I believe, is the blue Mayora. And the way that the, what would you call it? The pieces in the acrylic are like the same size and shape. And they have the same spread and like spacing in between them. They look like they're the same material, just different colors, right? Is that what you're getting at?

'Myke: Yeah. The colors are different, but it's like the texture, I guess you'd maybe call it, looks very, very, very similar to me. I mean, but I guess lots of companies make acrylic that looks like this one.

Brad: Yeah.

'Myke: Yeah. Yeah. Because I think it was Delta. Their rods got bought up, right?

Brad: Well, yeah. Delta and Omos sometimes get confused together.

'Myke: Omos is the one I'm thinking of, Brad. Not Delta. Yeah. Yeah.

Brad: I remember that. Delta made the orange kind of like cracked ice looking orange rods that were so particular. Like if you look up Delta pen, everything is going to be this orange material. Like seven out of 10 pictures will be the same identical orange material. And this material, at least aesthetically, not color wise, but just like the texture.

'Myke: Someone makes a pen that looks like this now though, don't they? The Delta? I feel like I've just seen a pen that has this orangey look with the black.

Brad: I know a lot of people bought that material. A lot of people try to mimic that material. It's just a popular look. I mean, Leonardo has an orange center black cap.

'Myke: I think that's what I'm thinking of. It's that Leonardo is what I'm thinking of. Makes sense. So, yeah. It would make that. So, yeah. I want to point two things from your review. So, the grip section, I don't know if I could get along with it. It's very odd looking to me.

Brad: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

'Myke: I don't know. I tend not to like grip sections that try and force me into a holding position in general.

Brad: So, that's fair. And I think Leonardo is the same way. Even though the shape is different, it's a non-standard. What we'd say is a non-standard because they have a taper in the middle, right? Mm-hmm. It's like a notch down angle and then a straight, which I was like, is my fingers just not going to continue off the end of the pin into the nib? But it actually works. It holds your fingers in there somehow.

'Myke: It looks pretty short though as well. The grip section doesn't look... It's not very big.

Brad: Yeah. It's like, it's not overly big, but when you're, like you just said, this defines where you put your fingers. You don't get to move up and down, right? I like that. So, like if you had a straight, you could move up and down. Just like if you go back, you know, and look at that, the Lamy we're looking at a minute ago, the Ideos, like that grip section's twice as long as both of these grip sections, but it's essentially straight, right? It's got a slight taper, but you can grip it low, you can grip it high, and there's no difference. With the Mayora, you're gripping it where Mayora says you're going to grip it.

'Myke: Mm-hmm. You also mentioned in your review that you had to tune your nib a little bit. You had to give it a little...

Brad: Yeah, it was weird. So, it's a stock... These are Yovo nibs, and this is an extra fine, and I don't know that I've ever used like a gold-plated extra fine one, and I don't know if it's the plating that caused this, but when you get an extra fine nib, sometimes you get... And I've had this before, honestly, more on a gold nib than with a steel nib. You get a little, almost like a pickiness, right? When you're writing with something that's closer to like a needle size than like a round pencil tip size, you can feel it almost like grabbing the page a little bit, and it was almost like I had to knock this little bit off to get it to write just smoothly. Like, it wasn't... Like, I could have kept writing with it as it was, but I was happier with it after I ran it over some micro-mesh, and then just got it. Like, yeah, I agree with your perception that you shouldn't have to do that. And I don't think it was any type of deal-breaker type of situation where like, oh, this nib was messed up and I had to work on it. It wasn't at that level. Okay. It was just something that like, I think it was fine, but I wanted it a little bit better.

'Myke: And maybe this is one of those things that like, because you know how you could make it better, you just do? Correct. And maybe if you didn't know, it wouldn't bother you as much?

Brad: I don't know.

'Myke: I don't know.

Brad: And probably you're only going to see it in the finest nib anyway. Like, if you had a medium nib, that's probably not coming up at all, right?

'Myke: Like, once again, proving why fine nibs are a mistake. If you would like to get the show notes for this week's episode, you can go to really.fm slash penaddict slash 481. You can also find information there about donating to St. Jude and our sponsor of this week's episode, Canalea Pen Company. If you want to find Brad online, he is at dowdyism on Twitter, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M, penaddict on Instagram, and Brad streams three times a week. It's Tuesdays and Thursdays, right? Still at 10 a.m. Eastern. Yep. And pretty much not too long after we finish recording our show live every week. So it's kind of probably around 11.30ish. Wednesday, 7.30, 11.45 Eastern. Yep. And on a Wednesday as well. It's at twitch.tv slash penaddict. You can go to spokedesign.com, penaddict.com, and knock.co. That's where you can find all the Brad stuff. I'm iMike, I-M-Y-K-E. And you can buy products that I make over at cortexmerch.com as well. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of The Pen Addict. And we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.