The Pen Addict 466/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	466
Title:	I'm Not Going to Rank My Friends
Release Date:	June 16th, 2021
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 466
Audio File:	Audio Episode 466
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 466
Length:	6969 min <br />1.15 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke: For Real AFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 466, and today's show is brought to you by Pen Chalet and Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi, Brad.

Brad: Hey, Myke Hurley. How are you?

Myke: I'm good. I'm kind of back.

Brad: Kind of? What do you mean kind of?

Myke: Well, I only kind of left, right? I was technically still a part of the last episode.

Brad: You know what, Myke? I thought our ad reads were pretty strong last episode. They were good. That was prime content. We weave them in very appropriately. Props to our editor for knocking out that seamless transition. Thank you, Jim, for doing that. But, I mean, where were you last week? Like, I tried to get a hold of you. Like, I just had to call in a favour.

Ad Reads

Myke: We literally had a conversation. You can try and style it out if you like, but you know I wasn't around. It was WWDC last week, which was Apple's big tech conference. I was expecting a busy week. It was a very busy week. So, Brad, pinch hit for me. Is that what you call it? Pinch hit?

Brad: Yes. No, our guest pinch hit for you. I was here as scheduled and our guest pinch hit for you, which we'll talk about in a moment.

Myke: But didn't you pinch hit for me as host?

Brad: I guess so. Yeah. I guess technically you're correct. Right. So, you know, one Ricky for you. Is that how it works?

Myke: Yeah, that's one Ricky point. Thank you very much. I'll tell the other boys that you gave me one. Okay. It was a great interview with Ben Walsh. I really enjoyed it. It was... What I'll say is I not only found the interview very interesting, I also kind of just enjoyed somebody not from America in the conversation. That was like an extra point for me, you know, with Ben being in Ireland. I don't know. There was just something about that where it was like, well, this is different because it's not like every other voice that I hear. So I was... Right. I really enjoyed that discussion.

Brad: Right. I like to do that when we do the interviews. Like, we don't do interviews a ton on the show and we've talked about why millions of times. But, you know, when I get the chance, I want to do something a little bit different. And, you know, it wasn't like at the forefront of my mind, but like, it's like, oh, cool. Ben's in Ireland too. And like, I rarely talk to anyone from overseas when I'm just taking up the reviews, you know, I mean, excuse me, the interviews. So it was cool to talk with Ben, kind of get his background because like he's pretty, you know, I'm new, you know, to the scene and I've only talked to him for probably over the past year, I guess. So I'm still really just trying to learn, learn what he does. But it feels like a bit of a mad scientist. Yeah, I got that after talking to him. I realized like how just completely in the weeds he is with this. Right. That's what you get out of these interviews. Like no matter like our emails, like that doesn't come out. My digging around the Internet, that doesn't come out. You know, it's the blowing up the microwave in your bedroom. Then it's like, oh, this is what you do. And like, that's normal. That's Tuesday, you know. So, yeah, it was cool. I had a question about WWDC. If I can show my new but new business real quick. I have a question and then a follow up that you may not be expecting, but it's easy. So this may not be the place where like new Apple Pencil features get showed out. But was there anything in iOS 15 that would improve or change any Apple Pencil operations?

Myke: I don't think so. But what are you looking for that you don't have?

Brad: My question was, and it's not really that, it's more of I got to thinking about this and I was like, oh, I want to ask Myke about the Pencil because I didn't hear it come up saying that, you know, there's these other features. But I'm wondering why we don't have stationary companies that have apps that allow you to like test nib sizes. Like why don't Pilot or Pelican or Montegrappa or Sailor have an app for iOS for the iPad where you can go and like play around with their inventory and put different nibs on pens and kind of like fake write with them.

Myke: Well, there's nothing stopping them doing that. Like Apple have all of the tools available to a developer or a company.

Brad: So why don't you why don't you think they do that? Why don't you think they do that? Like Moleskine, I mean, they're not really known for their pens, but they're just they're all in on iOS. Right. So no one else is even as like technical support. And maybe they just don't there's maybe they see it as no benefit. It's really what I'm asking for is a marketing tool. Right. You know, I'm not asking for like a real, you know, like like Moleskine does, like real journals and real calendars and things like that. And what I'm asking for is these companies to make marketing tools for me to play around with. So I don't know. It was just a thought I had. It would be cool to like build your own sailor and play around with this nib and do it like that. So, yeah, I don't know. I was just wondering if like this is a thing that I don't know. I wish I wish it existed. And I don't know, maybe we'll see it one day, but I know probably only like the biggest of the big companies could put out those resources.

Myke: My feeling would be that they wouldn't do it because either A, they think they wouldn't be able to provide you the experience because you can't, you know, you can't simulate what it feels like. Right.

Brad: Yeah. Pelican. I mean, Platinum UEF is not going to work on the back, but you're not going to get the feedback, which is part of it.

Myke: But you could, as you say, like get an idea for what the nib sizes would be like. But I think the other thing is I don't know if it's if a lot of pen companies would consider it in their best interest to show how good a digital experience could be. They wouldn't want to say like, oh, hey, you can get most of this from a digital experience instead. Right.

Brad: Yeah. It was just something I was thinking about. It's like a fun toy, but really, it's probably a waste of money for these companies to do unless they're doing something like more serious. But yeah, I'm with you. It was just a thought I had. It would be fun to play with. But yeah.

Myke: Well, I guess, you know, maybe you have a new project now.

Brad: No, I have enough. I have enough projects. That's a no.

Myke: You can be an app director, you know, someone can make this app.

Brad: I mean, if Lamy, if Lamy hired me, I'm in.

Myke: Back on that train again.

Twitch Goals

Brad: Why? I'm always on that train. Like that train has never left the station yet. Like, like we're just firing the coals in the engine.

Myke: I don't want to have to do another disclaimer at the end of the show.

Brad: Oh my God. Do you remember that?

Myke: That was wild. So this is, we've spoken about it before, but this is one of those things that people who've listened to the show might have forgotten. Or if you're new to the show, you might not know in the first place. Brad used to work at JetPans many, many, many moons ago. Yeah. Like our first year. Of the show, we used to have a disclaimer stating the fact that Brad worked at JetPans. Yeah. And they didn't sponsor the show. I don't even remember what the disclaimer said, but it was central on those lines.

Brad: It was pretty simple, but like I obviously wanted to keep doing the show. That was one of the conditions. And they just said, well, let's do this disclaimer and everyone will be happy. I forgot. I totally forgot about that. What I didn't forget about Myke was I made Twitch Partner last week.

Myke: Yes, you did. Didn't you? Yeah. Can you explain to the audience what this means though? Like why this is important?

Brad: It means I've reached the end game and now I can officially play the game.

Brad: So, I mean, important, like, I don't know that I would ever say important, but it was a cool thing to do because it's kind of the main category of the biggest creators on Twitch. And now I'm not one of those. I'm not saying I am, but you get to this place called Partner. It's basically you get your checkmark to where you've shown that you have streamed enough time, streamed enough hours, streamed enough different days, built a big enough audience, and had all of these metrics to say, hey, there's something cool going on here. We're basically going to give you that verification that this is, like, one of our main, like, this is, I don't know what the terminology.

Myke: I can maybe, I can give people some examples that they might be familiar with from other platforms. So, it's a combination of, like, being verified, which is one part of it because you get a checkmark next to your name. You also receive more money. So, your ad revenue. The ad revenue and the subscription, you get a different split. You actually earn more. I didn't know if you knew that, actually. Correct. I didn't know that. That is very well. I did know that. Cool. And then also, you get access to people at Twitch. Yes. So, you get, like, a partner manager. So, like, there's, like, a mixture between YouTube and Twitter and, like, all those kinds of systems. Yeah. So, you know, and also as well, you are considered, you know, you are in a single-digit percentage of people streaming on Twitch. I probably said this before on the show anyway, and I don't remember the exacts of this, but if you have, like, 50 people that watch you live, you're in, like, the top 5% of Twitch streamers. Oh, really?

Brad: Yeah.

Myke: So, then to get to the numbers that you're at and then to get partnered, it's, like, a fraction of that. So, it is a big deal if you're a Twitch streamer to be a partner. Like, it feels like an important thing. And also, you know, I've been following enough Twitch streams now. Like, I see when someone makes partner, it's, like, a big deal. Which is why, like, when you did your stream, like, I really wanted to be there last week to join for that. Because it is a big deal. It's something to be celebrated. It shows that, you know, your hard work is being recognized. And I'm really proud of you.

Brad: Thank you. Thank you. And I did this on purpose, right? I made it a goal of mine. And it took a couple years. And we've executed it. And now I'm committed to it. And now I've actually fallen in love with it. Like, I don't like it when I miss, like, the streams I have scheduled now. Yeah. Just because it's a fun platform. The viewership has already ramped up since I've made partner. I don't know if I'm moved in the algorithm a little bit differently. But I've noticed, like, I've had some big jumps over the last several months and another, you know, big jump. I mean, for me, that's, you know, 10 or 20 average. But that's, you know, a big number when you're talking about 100 and something.

Myke: Well, but that's how you do this stuff. You chip away at it and grow over time. I mean, I've seen similar. Well, like, now, when I started streaming, I would maybe get, like, 50 or 60 live listeners. And now I can get live viewers. I can get to, like, 200 pretty easy now. Yeah. Yeah. Because as you move through the system, it, like, it continues to show you and recommend. And when you're a partner, you get that more. So people that are going to Twitch to find something to watch, which is a lot of people, it turns out. Yeah. May get recommended your channel as one to watch, especially in the kind of makers and crafting, which I assume is what you.

Brad: Yes. So now my next goal is to uplift all the stationary streamers in there that are really just kind of getting started. There's some that have been doing it for a while. And, like, I just want to make that a bigger community on Twitch. Yeah. We put out a petition to get, like, stationary tags and things like that.

Myke: Which is similar to how keyboards have been growing, too. Like, it's a little industry and there's a few big people in it, but mostly people that are relatively small. But it's growing. And that's a great comparison for Twitch.

Stationery Streamers Growth

Brad: Those two. Yeah. That's a great comparison. So thank you, everyone, who helped me do that. Like, I couldn't do it without y'all showing up and hanging out during the stream. It's a lot of work. It's very, very fun.

Myke: You did a lot of work. Like, because, you know, I see the same stuff that you do, right? So Twitch shows you there are, like, achievements that you have to meet before they'll even consider you. Because they have, like, two systems. One's affiliate, one's partner. Affiliate's pretty automated. Like, you stream enough times, you get enough viewers, you become affiliate. And then you can start making money. But then for partner, you have to hit a bunch of goals. And then Twitch review you to see if they want to make you partner. Which makes sense. Because, you know, if you were saying a lot of bad stuff, they don't want to make you partner, right? Because that's Twitch putting their stamp of approval on you as a creator. And so they can take it away, too, right? Yeah.

Brad: So it took me twice to apply to be approved.

Myke: And I'm not surprised because some people do, like, what you had done. But they just, like, which is, like, they cram it, right? They just do a bunch of streams, fulfill their commitments, and then stop when they get partner. And that's not what Twitch want. They want you streaming a lot, right? So they probably had to see your commitment to that, I guess. But what I'm saying is I see what it takes to do that.

Myke: And I don't want to put all the work in. You have to stream, like, every day for a period of time, pretty much. And I don't have the time for that. So I applaud you for making the time for that because it's a big commitment.

Brad: Yeah. And I'm going to keep going. Like, I feel like we're just getting started.

Myke: Good, man. I love your streams, Brad. They are really good.

Brad: Oh, thanks. We have fun. Like, it's literally this. It's literally me. I don't put on a show. I just be me. And we have fun.

Myke: Should we take our first break?

Brad: I think so. Because I don't know when we're going to take our next one because we have a lot to talk about today.

Myke: All right. Let's talk about our friends over at Pen Chalet. They sell the products you are looking for, whether it's a rollerball or a fountain pen, a ballpoint, a mechanical pencil. Maybe it's a bottle of ink. Maybe you need some converters, a pen holder. What about a carrying case? Doesn't matter what you need. Pen Chalet have got it. They're always adding new styles of pens every single month. And they're also doing tons of discounts, too. You can get closeout specials every two weeks as well. So there's always something new being added to Pen Chalet. And there's always a great deal to be found on Pen Chalet. They have all of your favorite brands. And they give a 100% satisfaction guarantee on their products. They want you to be happy. If you're not, they'll sort it out. Pen Chalet is done internationally. They have great shipping rates. And if you're in the US, you get free shipping on orders of over $50 as well. So go to PenChalet.com. That's P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T.com. Click the podcast link at the top of the website. Enter the password Pen Addict for this week's special offer. And to get the code that you need to save 10% on anything at any time at Pen Chalet. Brad, what's Ron got for us this time?

Pen Chalet Products

Brad: So I have to, I had to look this up. So the very first thing, I'm still on it. It's called the D. Charles Designs Leather Pen Wipe Non-Refillable Pen Care Supplies. And it's a 50% off item on the site. And I'm like, what is this exactly? So I've gone over to the page. And it's basically something right up my alley. I'm like, oh, yeah, I could use this. It's basically a case that holds a chamois or several, you know, like the, you know, that soft kind of leathery material that's used to clean and dry things. And, you know, to get off fingerprints, things like that. It's, and I'm one that's particular about like smudges and smears on my pens. Like I don't necessarily care about the nib. But I do, you know, if I have a pen that I can see my fingerprints on it, I'll get one of my eyeglasses cloths, like a microfiber, which may not be the best thing. But I do, you know, I don't know if I can see my fingerprints on the pen. I noticed that too.

Myke: Those colors and that shape is wild.

Brad: Yeah, so the, the Briolette's one of the, I think one of the original designs or maybe in the second round of designs, it's a smaller Bennu pen. The price is outrageous. If you like the outrageousness of their materials that Bennu uses, that's a really, really good deal to get into one of those pens and to try one out for the first time. So yeah, that looks, that looks awesome. And then they have one of the larger models, the Supreme, but they just have like a singular design on that. But the Briolette has several, several designs at a price that I've, I've never seen the Bennu pens before. And I'm a Bennu pen fan and we're going to have a new one, one of their new models coming out. We're going to have a review on that, on the penannict.com soon. But I am a fan of the Bennu pen. So yeah, definitely check those out.

Myke: All right, you should go and check this out for yourself right now. Go to penchalet.com, click the podcast link at the top of the website and enter the password penaddict to see these wonderful deals and get that 10% code that you need to save anything at any time at Penn Chalet. Our thanks to our friends over at Penn Chalet for their support of this show and RelayFM.

Brad: All right, a couple of news items before we get to our main topic and I'll go ahead and lay it out there. We're going to talk about my Monday update to the top five fountain pens between $100 and $200. That's going to be the bulk of our show today. But I couldn't help but put in a couple of short topics before then. Number one, I had to show you this, Myke. So I don't know how to explain this to our audio listeners. So you're going to have to go to the show notes for this. But the short version, you sound concerned about me adding this, but I had to do it. So there's an Instagram account of a Penn user. The Instagram account is called LikeNateChampion. And if you click on this link, it is the wildest, craziest Penn stand that you've ever seen. And I had no idea what is happening here. And the story goes that LikeNateChampion was talking about just, you know, telling a story about, you know, the dragon sitting on the pile of gold. And someone sketched the dragon sitting on a pile of gold the way he was talking about it. Then the next thing you know, someone 3D printed the dragon sitting on the pile of gold. And there was one, two, three, four pens, I think, sticking out of this thing. So there's this massive 3D printed dragon.

Myke: Where did this come from? I don't even know. It's a dragon on a pile of gold, which has a bunch of pen caps sticking out of it. The dragon is wearing a cowboy hat and has a mustache. And there are two or three places on this sculpture to put pens on.

Brad: Yeah, I think it's a representation of what LikeNateChampion's desk would look like as someone who is a very avid collector of pens. And this was the idea of what his desk must look like. So maybe he is the dragon. He is the dragon. And there's some really fancy pens in this dragon. You know, it's like Mont Blanc's and two Mont Blanc's.

Myke: I can't believe somebody made this.

Brad: Yeah, so this is three. It's huge, right? Like, it's hard to get the scale of it. But these are not small pens that are in there, like the pen in the dragon tail. It just makes me wonder how big this dragon really is. And this was a fun thing to add to the show just because I think it's just a cool community thing that happened, right? Like, no one's going to be able to go buy this, nor should you want to. But it's kind of perfect for the little stories that, like, Nate Champion, you know, was talking about his pens. And this representation that someone had an idea to make this. And the community, you know, someone else drew it. And then someone else made it. And then now there's a dragon sitting on a pile of gold pen stand on someone's desk out there in our community. And I just think it's cool. I think it's really, really neat to see.

Myke: It sure is something, Brad.

Brad: It is something, yes. It really is something. Do not send me a dragon sitting on a pile of gold pen stand. But I think it looks good on you. That's my best answer. What I do want to be sent to me, Myke, is one of these Drillog pens. We've talked about this a couple times.

Myke: These are the really wild-looking dip pens, right?

Brad: But, like, needle-tip dip pens as opposed to the lighter nib.

Myke: With the kind of channels. They're like, because it looks like they kind of put channels into it, which are really intriguing-looking. We spoke about them on the show some time ago. And they posted from their Twitter account and said, In order to deliver Drillog to the world, we are planning to launch a crowdfunding campaign outside of Japan. So we can naturally expect that they will have a Kickstarter campaign coming. I'm guessing. And I am amped for it. Because they posted some images. And they've basically got what looks like a rainbow of these pens. I don't know what you call them pens. But, yeah, I'm into this big time. I really hope that they also do, like, I don't know, like a fancy bottle or something to go along with it. But, yeah, I'm into it, man. I can't wait for this.

Brad: Yeah, it's a highly engineered dip pen. If you haven't heard us or clicked through these links, it's unlike anything you've ever seen. Like, just imagine, like, a very engineered, you know, machined pen or mechanical pencil. But this is made to be something different for dip pen testing. Yeah. And they're very expensive.

Myke: The only thing I'm not sure about with these, right, is looking at the images, is how high up they have to be held.

Brad: Yeah, because the dipped part of the nib is lengthy. It almost looks like the nib section. But that's actually where the ink is being reserved to continue working.

Myke: Yeah, basically where I would typically hold the pen, that's what you dip the ink in.

Brad: Right. And even their handwriting image, you know, the person's holding the pen way back. Yeah. Right. So, it's interesting. Like, this is not a thing for everybody. This is something that I've wanted for a while because this is my level of pen nerdery. But, you know, they're probably going to be like $300 each or something like that. And, you know, I will be first in line just because I want to try this. And it looks like my type of product. But, like, I wouldn't rush into this if you're not really into this kind of thing. It's one of those deals. But, yeah, I hope they – I guess they've gotten some good feedback from, you know, their launch. Really, just earlier this year, they opened their web shop and they shipped to Japan only. And I know a couple of people have gotten, you know, their hands on them in other regions, you know, getting friends to ship them or using, you know, services, things like that. I haven't bothered to do that. It's okay. But now, yeah, I'll be in. So, you can imagine we will be sharing this information when it goes live, you know, on however they decide to do it. I look forward to it.

Myke: Nice. Nice.

Brad: Big topic today, Myke. All right. What have we got?

Top Five Fountain Pens Update

Brad: I updated my top five fountain pens between $100 and $200 this week on the blog. And I wanted to discuss it a little bit further and just go through what I'm thinking about some of the changes I made, some of the issues with this price range in general, some of the regrets I might already be having. Uh-oh. That's how these lists go, right?

Myke: Can we start with why you needed to update this?

Myke: Yes. And why this is maybe a more significant update than you've done previously.

Brad: Yeah. And this will be a recurring theme of our conversation. A lot of pens that were on this list priced themselves out of the top range of the bracket. So there are several pens that were previously in this list that are now above $200.

Brad: You know, the Sailor 1911 being the primary one that is removed from this list. That's how long ago it's been since I've updated this. The 1911 hasn't been under $200 in two or three years. So it's been, this was, we were long overdue and update, right? And some of the other pens on this list in the new list are about to be out of this list too in probably another year or two because they're right on the edge. So that's going to be the overarching theme here of this list. So let me go over, I'm going to.

Myke: Can I ask you a meta question?

Brad: Yes.

Myke: That may be too much for now, but, you know, as time goes on, is it potentially worth looking at actually changing the bracket?

Brad: Yes. Like, I think we need probably a $150 to $250 bracket. Yeah. That gives a better range.

Myke: Because prices change over time. Like markets change, you know. So like $100 to $200 pen 10 years ago would have been very different to now.

Brad: Right. So, I don't know. And I think the bracket below that would be $75 to $150. I don't know exactly though. I haven't thought it out that much because a lot of the $80 pens are going to be pushing up against $100 pens. I don't know. It might just need $100 to $150. I think that's a completely separate category. So, on my new list, there are no pens under $150 on this list.

Myke: I think that honestly, like, at some point answers your question then. Like, having a $75 to $150 and $150 to $250 maybe makes more sense. But that's more than this discussion today. Maybe that's for next time.

Brad: I don't know. I mean, I think it's part of the broader discussion of what's happening in this range in the market. Because I think this is the sweet spot. Right. The $150 to $200 range I think is the sweet spot for, I would say, mostly advanced users. Right. Or your second or third fountain pen type of user. Right. You're getting great materials, great craftsmanship, great nibs, great designs. These are, like, your first step-up pens. Right. Like, you've tested, like, TWSBI Ecos and Pilot Preras and Kavecos and things like that. And you like what you've seen so far in fountain pens. And I think this is probably the range I would send people to next. Now, there's things, you know, obviously between $100 and $150 that are great. Or things, you know, $80 that are great. And I think, though, this is kind of the best value is the wrong word. But this is just such high-quality offerings here that you almost don't have to go any further than this. This could be, like, the pinnacle range before you get into, like, specialty stuff. And I think that's what this $150 to $200 bracket has. So, previously on this list, we had the Platinum 3776, the Pilot Vanishing Point, the Pelican M205, the Sailor 1911 Standard.

Brad: Did I say Pelican M205? Yeah. Platinum 3776, Sailor 1911, Pilot Vanishing Point, Lamy 2000, Pelican M205. The Pelican M205 still prices itself in this range. But I think it's been usurped by some. Its price has gone up slightly. And it's kind of something.

Myke: I think it's less appealing compared to the stuff that you have on the list now. It feels like. I don't think the Pelican thing is a price thing. It's kind of just like. Yes. It's maybe not as exciting as it used to be.

Brad: Right. Because it's super high-quality, right? You will buy that pin and you will love that pin. Yep. 100%. But to me, it's like $100 to $125 pin. That's what I want to spend for an M205. And that's kind of the range. And they're kind of bumping up a little bit. Right. The standard ones are now $140. The limited ones are pushing $200. I just think these are better pins in my opinion. So, on that note, these are recommendations. This is if someone's coming to me and saying, let's talk about pins and I'm looking to spend this much money. And these are the kind of things that I like. What type of pins should I be looking at? This is not necessarily my personal favorite list. It just happens to be, as I wrote in the article on Monday, that a lot of these do happen to be my favorite pins. So, number one, I kept the Platinum 3776.

Brad: I don't know how long it's going to be on this list, Myke. We've seen so many companies raise their prices, Platinum being one of them. Generally on the more limited edition pins, but the 3776 is creeping up. When I bought my first 3776, I couldn't have paid much more than $100 for it. And then when I bought my second 3776 to get a broad nib that I could get an architect nib ground onto it. It was about $140, I think. $140, $150. And then I just recently bought a rhodium trim Chartres Blue with an ultra extra fine nib. That's like $200, right? Then you're kind of ticking over or right in that range. $200. But you can still get the base, 3776 for $175. So, I felt fine keeping it there. It was number one before. It's number one now because I think it's the best writing experience, really. Just about across the board on any price point, any range. It's my favorite nib. It is a nib that, if you don't like fine nibs, you can go up to a medium or a broad and still have a spectacular experience. You know, it's expensive. It took me a while to get to the 3776 all those years ago when I was paying $100 for one because I thought the barrel was a little light, right?

Myke: It is light. It is. Like, I have two, right? And the one that I have that's closest to what we're talking about is the nice lilac, the purple one with the gold trim. And I think, I don't remember the exact price of this, but it may have pushed it out. But this one isn't that different, right, to what we're talking about here, at least the acrylic body. And it is my only criticism of this pen, which is otherwise a just superbly great pen, is the body is, there isn't, the balance to it isn't right. It's too light.

Brad: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Myke: Like, maybe the acrylic's too thin. I don't know what's going on with it. But it feels lighter than other pens that I have. Like, it feels lighter to me than a 1911 does.

Brad: Yeah. Yeah. So you kind of feel, I won't say that they're fragile, right? Like, they're not at all. But they are lighter than comparable pens in this range. And they're way lighter than several of the other pens I'm going to talk about in this new list. You know, not all of them. But, you know, when you're getting into different acrylics, these are just, you know, straight machined plastic. And, you know, it, honestly, years and years ago, I thought it, like, ah, this just doesn't feel great. It feels kind of cheap. But what happened is the nib continued to set itself apart. And then I adjusted to these lighter barrels. And it turns out that's kind of my favorite barrel weight to begin with. You know, that goes into the Nakayas that just feel like air. That's a completely different category. But it's the same type of feel when you're writing with it. And it turns out with my fine nib writing, it's great. So, you know, I still feel that that's the number one recommendation in this list. Now, there's always caveats. Like, we're saying it's a light pen. Not everyone might like that. Well, then you go into what I really think is the area. It's really these next three pens on the list that showcase the change that we've had in the market over the last few years. So, number two, I put the Leonardo Memento Zero slash Fiore. I'm going to continue to say Memento Zero because that's the model.

Myke: Can I ask you a quick question about the 3776 before we continue? Oh, sure, sure, sure. Yes. The standard nib, is it gold? Yes. Yeah, see, that's one of the things that really, like, in this price bracket, I think. Like, makes, sets this pen out. I believed it was, but I wanted to double check. Just because that's so rare. Yes. To get a gold nib pen at this price range. I mean, it's probably one of the reasons the body is light. I wouldn't be surprised if they cheap out on the body a little bit so I can offer you the gold nib at that price.

Brad: Yep, yep. So, it's definitely one of the reasons why it doesn't get dock points for the barrel because of the nib material. Like, the nib is really, really great.

Myke: That the platinum nib is one of, if not the best nib that you can buy in a pen that, you know, in general sale.

Brad: Yep. Agree. Agree completely. So, yes, that's, there's only two gold nibs on this list. There could be more. We'll talk about that at the end. But this next group is a more modern group. So, the Leonardo Memento Zero slash Fiore. Those are just different barrel shapes, right? One's a tapered, a flat tapered top and the other ones are a torpedo shape. But they're generally around the same price. That's just a preference, aesthetic preference. I'm going to refer to the Memento Zero because that's my favorite model. Number three, the Diplomat Arrow, which is a torpedo shape, but a metal, a fluted metal barrel pin. And then the Estabrook Esty, which is more along the lines of the Leonardo Memento Zero, just in like the wild acrylics and the barrel shape, general shape. All of these are steel nib pens. They're generally all Yovo nibs. Leonardo's uses Bach from time to time as well. They all perform exquisitely out of the box. These are more of the pens that a lesser experienced fountain pen user would absolutely fall in love with any of these three pens if they fit their needs. The Diplomat Arrow is different because it's metal and it's slightly heavier. The Leonardo Memento Zero and the Estabrook Esty are colorful and bright. Or you can get, you know, you can still get some all black models on there, but I'm generally talking about the fun colors. They all write perfectly. They're all in the same, like $150 to $180, maybe up to $199 price point, right? The Leonardo Memento Zero, I think when it first came out, was around $140, $150. They're up a little bit, maybe around $160 for the base and then $199 if there's, you know, maybe some material, some hardware changes. The Diplomat Arrow is about $180 for the base model. And you can get it in all kinds of different anodized colors that are just fantastic. And the Estabrook Esty is like $150, $160 range. And it's just a great acrylic material, Yovo nib. It has kind of less hardware styling than the Leonardo. That's why I like, I think the machining and the craftsmanship on the Leonardo is a little bit of a step up from the Esty. That's why I rank them in that order. Right. But they're all spectacular pens. Like, I really kind of group these together, even though they're a little bit different between the three.

Myke: The only one I struggle with, actually, can you guess?

Brad: Oh, the Arrow.

Myke: Yeah, I really don't like the design of the Arrow. Like, I don't just like not like it. I like actively dislike it.

Brad: Really? That's interesting. I didn't know that. I didn't know that about you. I actively like it. And it actively speaks to a lot of people. Right? Like, it is one of those pens. You show it to someone and they pick it up and they feel it or they see it for the first time. And they're like, oh, I get it. It's not for everyone.

Myke: It is absolutely not for everyone. Maybe it's a bit of a love it or hate it kind of pen. I don't know.

Myke: I don't mean to be mean, but like it has no redeeming quality for me.

Brad: That's interesting. You don't have many metal barrel pens in general, right? Is that a recurring thing? Fountain pen wise, is that a recurring theme for you?

Myke: I don't have a lot, but it feels like, honestly, I feel like the reason I don't have a lot is there just in general tends to be fewer.

Myke: I feel like most fountain pens are not metal, but I do have some.

Brad: Yeah. You make a good one. Yeah. It's pretty lightweight, though. It's very different than the Arrow, I would say.

Myke: I tell you, so like, I don't like the ridges in the Arrow. I don't like the end finial on the back. And I don't like the clip.

Brad: I love the end finials and I love the clip. That's interesting. I didn't know we were this far apart on the Arrow. Like, I didn't know you actively dislike the Arrow.

Myke: Yeah, I really don't. The Diplomat is like a pen I walk by at a pen show, you know? Yes. It doesn't do it for me. But I look at it and I understand its place. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I just mean, like, I know that this is the type of pen that some people would really like the look of. I get that. It's just not for me. Right.

Brad: So the way I have this list set up is when I'm having these conversations, we talk about these options. And the Arrow is a very different option than something like the Leonardo Memento Zero. As far as feel and aesthetic goes.

Myke: I need a Leonardo. I can't believe I still don't have one. Considering how much you've rated them the last couple of years. Like, it seems like they just continue to creep up. Like, I wasn't surprised to see that a Leonardo made this list for you.

Brad: Yeah. And, like, it's a completely different pen than the Arrow. And so is the Esty. And I think the Arrow belongs here because I have seen so many people get the Arrow and be blown away by it. Right. And the way it's built and the quality of the writing experience is always excellent. And I think it belongs. Like, I don't even question that it belongs on this list. Put it that way. But that's how these lists go. I mean, people hate the Platinum 3776. It's just going to happen, right? But we're trying to narrow down the focus from someone who's trying to learn about these things. And you've got to remember, you know, not all of these things are applicable to how you write or what your aesthetic is. And things like that, which is why, you know, you don't like the Arrow. And that doesn't mean that you're wrong.

Myke: All right. Let me just say, I'm looking at Colt pens now because they have a big selection of Arrows.

Brad: A big quiver.

Myke: And there are some on here that I do like.

Myke: Like, they have a matte silver one, which is nice. They also have one called Flame, which is like that torched. Right. And you know what? I actually can get on board with those. What I think I don't like is when they break up the collar. I don't know why that bothers me. I got you.

Brad: Yeah. So I just bought the black stripe one. I don't know if that's the name of it, but that's what I'm calling it. I don't have it yet. It's like a pre-order with Penn Chalet. Right. That I bought for my personal use, right? Like I paid, you know, the full price and used our Penn Chalet code, right? That's what I think about the Arrow. Now, that's a more expensive model. That's a premium Arrow. That is not in this category, you know, because it was over $200. But they have a large amount of variety, mostly just in color, in the standard $180 model.

Myke: Here they all are on Penn Chalet, too. I just Googled it, and it took me to Colt Pens first.

Brad: Well, maybe because you're in the UK.

Myke: Yeah, definitely. Colt Pens buy a ton of search ads now.

Brad: Ah.

Brad: What's WH Smith? Yeah. Got to get them corporate SEOs.

Myke: I just Googled Diplomat Penn Chalet, and the first result was Colt Pens. So, yeah. All right. What I'll say is I will retract my statement in saying there are some here that I do like, but when they have just a solid color, I don't like it. I don't know why. Yeah. I like it when they mix it up a bit.

Brad: I don't think you have to retract anything. You don't know any one explanation. Like, this is one of those things that I definitely believe in and definitely needs to be stated more is like, we don't all have to like the same stuff. It's okay. Like, it's going to be okay.

Myke: I tell you, my other big surprise on your list is that the Lamy 2000 still fits in this price bracket.

Brad: That was the hardest part of this list. Not only that, it barely fits in the price bracket. Do you know what the U.S. price is for these, Myke?

Myke: Go on.

Brad: $199.20.

Myke: They're doing it perfect, but I assume. It's on purpose, right? They're doing it on pubs. I think it's worth it. I do. I know it's tricky because there can be issues with this pen. Yeah. But for that price, if you get a good one, and look, you go with a good company, buy from one of our friends like Penchelay. If you get one that's not writing correctly, it can be rectified, right? Right. If you get a Lamy 2000 as it is intended, I actually don't think you can get a better pen in that price bracket.

Brad: I agree. And I have a little personal, you know, problem with the Lamy 2000. I was trying to not let that cloud my view of what it is and what it offers and how, like, just generally amazing the pen is. And I never use mine, right, because I like all of these other pens on the list better. And I almost wanted to put the Pilot Custom 91 or 74 ahead of it because they're both gold nib pilot pens that are great. And they're around 160.

Brad: But you are hard pressed. Like, look, the Lamy 2000 has a piston filler, a gold nib, an exquisite design, cool materials. Somehow it stayed under $200. So it goes on the list until it doesn't. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, it's just that much of a classic value pen. Like, even at that price, what you get, you can't compare it with hardly anything. So it stays on the list. That was how I shook out on breaking down this list.

Myke: It's so special. Like, because what is it made out of, again?

Brad: Macrolon. It's called Macrolon.

Myke: When you hold that pen, it feels very different. It really does. It's a special pen.

Brad: It's one that makes you go, ooh, okay, like, this is different, right? It is different from the four pens above it in that aspect. The other four pens, you pick them up, you go, oh, this is a fountain pen. The Lamy 2000, you pick it up and you go, oh, this is different. Right. right? That's, I think that's the difference there and it stays on the list. It's an awesome pen. I still recommend it. It has gone up, what, $60 in probably the last three, four years.

Brad: You know, it's, it's interesting. Every one of these pens all have an upgrade model to them, right? The Platinum 3776, you can get the same shape and design in these limited colors and additions. Like you were talking about the, the Nisa Lelos that you had. The Leonardo Memento Zero and Fiore, well, they have Memento Zeros with piston fillers that, you know, raise the price and you can get gold nibs on all of these pens. Like the Arrow, the Arrow has different materials, different shapes, different colors that raise the price. The Estabrook Estee, you know, has like the gold rush and the diamond cast stuff and they have the journal or nibs options. The Lamy 2000 is just the Lamy 2000 and that's what it is. I mean, they have their limited editions and they have the stainless steel editions, but you almost never hear about them. The Lamy 2000 is just the Lamy 2000. It's been around for 55 years now because it's the Lamy 2000, right? So, it stays.

Myke: But I still stand by the fact that it is a pen that pen addicts should own. If you don't have one, put it at the top of your holiday list would be my recommend. If you've never, if you've never tried it, obviously if you try it and you don't like it, fine. But the Lamy 2000, I think it's a superb pen.

Lamy 2000 Discussion

Brad: Yes. As little as I use it, I would never not own it.

Myke: Yeah.

Brad: So, it's just, that's where I'm at in my personal library of pens. It's like, I have to have the Lamy 2000 and I bet it's been well over a year since I've used it. All these other pens, well, not the Arrow. So, the Arrow I'm having, basically replacing, I don't know what I did with my original Arrow. I think I maybe sold it or gave it away years ago. And I've bought this new one to replace that because I miss it. And like, I've had like the orange ones pass through my hands and I was like, it's such a good pen. Like, I always, I give, I tend to give them to other people or use them as giveaways because they're just kind of cool that way. The Leonardo Memento Zero I use all the time. The SD I use all the time. The Platinum 3776. I use more than probably all these other pens combined. So, this is a great range. Now, there's a couple, God, there's more than a couple more things I want to talk about.

Myke: Well, then we take our second break. Okay. And we'll come back to this discussion then. Okay. Sounds good. Give you a moment to collect your thoughts. Good. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one platform to build your online presence and run your business. From websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics, Squarespace has got it all and they've got you covered. They combine cutting-edge design and world-class engineering to make it easier than ever to establish your home online and make your ideas a reality. Squarespace has everything that you need to create a really wonderful, super modern, beautiful website. They give you all of the tools just built right into the system. You start with one of their professionally designed templates. You use drag and drop tools to make it your own. And then you can really kind of dig in and customize the look and feel, the colors, the fonts, and everything to make it feel like your own. And just in a couple of clicks, all this can be done. Even the products that you have on sale with the store that you can put on your Squarespace website, just a few clicks and you can get everything set up and changed as you need. Their websites are all optimized for every type of display. They work small and big and everything in between. You get unlimited hosting, top-of-the-line security, and dependable resources to help you succeed. You don't have to patch or upgrade anything. You don't have to do any of this tech support stuff. They do it all for you and also have 24-7 customer support. So if you need help, they're on hand. Squarespace really do have everything you're going to need. You want a domain name? You can get it from them. You want SEO tools? They got it. Email marketing? Yep. Squarespace can help you turn your big idea into a new website. They have beautiful portfolio designs for you to showcase your work. You can publish your next blog post, promote your business, announce an upcoming event, and so much more. It's all there. It's one of the reasons why I love and have used Squarespace for so long. Go to squarespace.com slash penaddict and you can get a free trial today with no credit card required. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code penaddict to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash penaddict. And then when you sign up, use the offer code penaddict and you'll get 10% off your first purchase. And you'll be showing your support for the show. Our thanks to Squarespace for continued support of this show and all of RelayFM.

Brad: So we have a question in the Discord that's going to lead us into the rest of this conversation. It's from Logan. Is the $100 to $200 range a bad entry point now? Like sub $100 for the entry and upgrade to over $200. $100, $200 was never a good entry point, right? I'm never going to start anyone there with like their first fountain pen, maybe even their second fountain pen, right? We're going to spend less than $50 to start. And then we're going to upgrade probably into like the $150 range, $150 and up range. It's kind of how I pictured in my head for someone who emails me and say, hey, I'm generally new to this. I have these likes and preferences. What should I do? Right. We're starting below $50 to begin with. But what we're seeing is a bigger change in the overall market to where it used to be hard to pick out pens in the $50 to $100 price range. And it still kind of is, but we're getting into where that's going to be a popular price range. And then the upper $100s, which is most of this list that I just shared a minute ago, is, and I don't know really what's in the $100 or $150 range, because at that price, you're spending a lot of money. That's a lot of money. And people go, well, if I'm going to spend that much money, I want a gold nib, right? So then that pushes them up over $150. And I think they would almost be happier there. That's where pens like the Pilot Customs $74 and $91 are. And they probably should be on this list. Like I would, you know, it would be a chicken move if I put like five A, B, and C on there. Like, but I don't know. Do they slot in above the Estee or in place of? I don't know. I like,

Myke: I don't know. I think the Estee is a good move because it, I think they are a sponsor of the show,

Brad: right? But it's also, it's also $156, right? It's like, it's the lowest price one on this list.

Myke: It's an affordable way to get a good pen that takes cues from a style of pen design, which is very attractive and Instagrammable. It's very modern. It's a very, very modern pen.

Brad: Not that the 74s and 91s aren't. Those are great workhorse pens. And not that these pens aren't, but it's, it's really hard to differentiate. Like if you're going to argue that the 91 and the 74 belong on this list, you're not going to get much of a pushback from me. Like probably none. I'll just say, yeah, maybe so. Like that, I love those pens. I like these pens better and I would recommend these. Um, I would feel safer recommending these pens that I have in the top five, but like, I'm not going to put up hardly an argument at all because I think those are fantastic pens.

Myke: I think the thing that surprises me about your list this time is the brands represented. It's very different. I feel like Lamy is the only quote unquote big international brand on the list.

Brad: Because Platinum. Maybe put Platinum. Platinum is way smaller than, I mean, it's Japanese big three, but out of the big three, they are fractional compared to Platinum. I feel like Platinum

Myke: hasn't broken out of Japan as much as Sailor and especially as much as Pilot, right? Um, into kind of like international, uh, household brand.

Brad: I will say this Platinum's very, very entry level pens, you know, the, the Preppy and the, the Plaisir and the Procyon, I'm forgetting all the names, um, are exceptional, right? Those are difference, difference makers, but there's nothing in the middle really with Platinum.

Myke: But also as well, as, as fantastic as they are, they still don't get the kind of like the entry level pens. I don't think that they get the kind of placement. There's so many competitors. But anyway, my point was really that I think that was the thing that really surprised me about this list is it doesn't feature a lot of brands that people coming to the pen addict for the first time would recognize, I think.

Brad: Mm-hmm. And that brings me into another topic and why I didn't change the note section on this is 150 to 200 is where a lot of our custom makers that we talk about a lot on this show fall for their entry level pens. And how do I determine whether they should be on the list? You know, I get a lot of emails saying, well, Edda shouldn't be on, should be on the list or Franklin Kristoff should be on the list. And like you literally every pen maker has like a great pen in this price range.

Myke: Yeah. I feel like that there is, and I think we've spoken about this before, an enthusiast

Brad: top five. Yes. Right. So I think that is a completely separate category than the question I'm trying to answer here. Right. I'm trying to make this as approachable as possible. Mm-hmm. And focus on more widely available pens. Yep. And if you like this, oh, let me show you what primary manipulation looks like. You know, or let me show you some other maker that might have a style that you like. You know, let me show you a Franklin Kristoff model 45. You need, you want a pocket pen that's in this price range? We can do that. You know, and you want it to look cool? Yeah, we can do that. You know, so it's, it's, that is harder to weave into this list to where it's a separate list completely. And I don't know that it should ever be a list. And I fight this. People want me to make a list of the, as you call the enthusiast pens. I call them maker's pens. And I, my answer is, I'm not going to rank my friends.

Myke: Fair enough. Fair enough. You are my best friend today. You got to number one.

Brad: Because I know all these people and they're close friends of mine.

Myke: Yeah. I also think that there is a, you could start getting into a conflict of interest kind of area here too. Yeah. Because these are the, maybe the brands that can most easily send you things. Right. Right. Right. It's like, Hey Brad, maybe this should be number one.

Brad: Right. Right. But you know, I also like when you look at, at the list I do have published, like I hopefully have, you know, and established that I will tell it like it is. Like I have basically ripped platinum a new one on this show about their price points for their limited editions, but I will still rank this pen number one because I objectively, I think it is. That doesn't, you know, mean that, you know, platinum is flawless in my mind. Um, you know, and you could just take that down the list completely. But when you're getting into the maker pens, it's, I have different relationships and you know, well then the question is, well, just make an alphabetical list. Well, I don't then have more than five people that I, that should be counted in that list. And then all of a sudden I now have a directory of makers and it's like, what am I trying to accomplish here? Right. I think it's kind of a no win situation for me. To try to rank that. So I try to keep this as a, as your more entry points or your beginning points or your leveling up points, then we can talk on a one-to-one level about, Hey, I want something different. And then that's where we can have the conversation about going to Franklin Kristoff and Edison and Brooks and you name it, everyone out there that I'm forgetting and we'll get yelled at, which is why I don't make the list. So the big picture takeaway I had in all of this is that the price brackets are definitely changing. They are for a fact changing. And that I think that's going to affect how I do this list longterm. I don't know that there is, um, value in having a hundred dollars to $200 price list because I don't think that's the correct representation, um, of what the market is right now. I think it's, the market is really, really awesome from like 150 to $250. You would never ever have to get out of that range for your life. If you wanted to write these, we got to remember these are extremely expensive pens, right? You know, it, relatively speaking, all of these pens are like not necessities. They're extremely expensive. But when you go above this level, you're paying for things that aren't necessarily, you know, the, the performance and the quality in the QQC, you're paying for the extra bling factor in, in different things, uh, after this price range. And then below this price range is where you try to figure out what you like, like, do I like this style of nib or that style of nib or this type of barrel or that type of barrel? So I think this is the best range, but I think the range is really probably 150 to 250. And then I would, I would be hard pressed not to have the, the, the pilot nine 12, like it probably won't be number one, but it, I might have to think about that pretty hard. Big list, big list. It could change tomorrow, but I've been, I mean, I think the community as a whole has been talking about this for the past year or two. There's really like, if you say your budget's $180 that the world's pretty much wide open to you. You can get so many cool pens in that price range and not to spend more and have your new favorite pen. Like I really, I'm a huge, huge fan of this range because of where I personally am with my collection is like, I have more expensive pens. Like I'm, I'm covered there. Like I'm, I'm good. Like I don't really necessarily look at like the ultra expensive pens anymore because I enjoy my Leonardo Memento zero just as much as those. And it was, you know, $140 when I bought it. Right. Like to me, there's, there's, that's how good these pens on this list are in my opinion. Bums me out to say there's nothing in this bracket anymore though. I mean, do you want to go another five or 10 minutes in this show? Because we can. Yeah. We've done it before. Like, like I've had this conversation. I don't know where these price points are going and at what point do, are we going to hit a tipping point to where there's pushback? I don't know how I'm going to see it. And I follow this stuff pretty closely, but when your base sailors like 280, I don't know what we're trying to accomplish here. When I say that, I mean, from like a pen addict perspective, from a me telling you about pens perspective. But if sailor North America is making money, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't understand what we're doing here. What is sailor? Is, is sailor strictly an enthusiast brand now? A sailor strictly a high end brand now? Are they positioning themselves differently?

Brad: Platinum brings me up from kindergarten to graduate school.

Brad: Sailor doesn't do that. Pilot does. I, I, sailor tries, but they failed. They're sailor's low end as has been a failure in the general sense of competition compared to platinum and pilot. No one talks about sailor entry level pens. Sailor starts at 280 to me because they have consistently failed everything below that. But what they offered for 280, not that long ago was half of that. I mean, like six years ago, like you used to could get a pro gear slim or a 1911 for under 150, 160 dollars, sometimes close to a hundred. And I'm trying to figure out, I don't think about it too much because I don't like, I don't, I'm not going to say I don't care, but it's like, I have choices. Right. And I've gotten all my sailors right at what I thought were fair prices at the time. And I'm thrilled with what I have and what they're offering me now is uninteresting relative to price, pin relative to price. Right. It's like, I have this and I paid, you know, some cases 40 and 50% less. So how are they going to acquire the new market? Are they keep, is there, has their market scope really, really shrunk based on how they price their most popular pens? I don't know. These are, I, this is the stuff that rattles around in my head. I don't know. It sucks that they're not on this list anymore. Flat out. I hate it because they're one of my favorite brands. I don't know when I'll buy my

Myke: next sailor. What is their, what are you going to have retail now? Uh, like 280 for the slim is the, but is that how much you pay though? Yes. That's because the MSRP is like three, three 30, three 40.

Brad: And then the MSRP for the, that's difficult for the big one is four 80. So it's like three 90.

Myke: I think two 50 is fine. I think two 80 might be too much.

Brad: So, but if they keep making money, who, who are we to, who are we, you know?

Myke: I just don't know if they are and I never will. Well, that's always the, um, uh, demand, right?

Brad: Right. Right. So right now they still have the demand, I think, but I think there's a few more

Myke: questions. This is how sales work. You, you've, the only way you're going to know if people will pay the price is if you keep up in the price until they stop paying and then you adjust. And I don't have a problem with his practice. This is just how you do it. Right. I, I agree. I just want to be clear.

Brad: I agree 100%. Yeah. If they think they need to raise the price or if they want to, please do, if they need to, they, like whatever they want. They're a business. I have no argument with that. Yeah. But now my, my math is different. Yeah. In my purchasing. But that's one of the things of

Myke: like, you can make an, it's a phrase I use a lot, but you can make it up in volume, right? Like if you put your prices up by 20% and 10% of your customers, won't buy anymore, were you still making more money?

Brad: I think the bigger thing that has me worried is like, you know, thinking about tomorrow, like they did this, what's next? Like, is this price now frozen for five years? No, there might be another increase next year. Like the, I feel like that's the path we're on. That's what has me more worried than like today's price is, is precedent.

Myke: Well, we'll see what this list looks like in a couple of years time.

Brad: That's probably what I'll update it again. Yeah. I'm looking at the rest of these lists now and

Myke: going, Oh my gosh, I still suggest that you should do 75 to 150 and 150 to 250.

Brad: I think it actually might be more broken down than that. The way, like the markets expanded, right? We didn't have Leonardo's and diplomats and Esther Brooks five years ago. Right. So now there's more options. Yeah. So I'm, I'm glad we have these options. I'm glad we have.

Myke: I'm recommending you gerrymander, right? So you can get some pins in the lists. It is more just like, if the market changes, then the, the, the kind of the parameters need to change a little bit.

Brad: Agree. There's been an expansion of offerings in these price ranges that are not currently accounted

Myke: for. Yep. So I don't think it's gerrymandering. All right. I think that's it for today. All right. I knew it was going to be a big discussion. You were like, Oh, I'll be five or 10 minutes. Like no way. Not only is there a lot to talk about, this is like literally your favorite thing to talk about.

Brad: Yeah. And I, like, I always, I, I feel like I don't do it in a clear,

Myke: distinct, direct fashion. This isn't clear. That's why there is no clear to this.

Brad: Right. It's complicated. I always feel, I always feel bad that I've just rambled and just talked in circles when we talk about this stuff. But like, I, it interests me. Like it interests me

Myke: a lot. Clearly. You can find links to the stuff we've spoken about today at relay.fm slash pen addict slash four six six. And they should be in your podcast app of choice. You should catch Brad when he streams, which is basically all the time at twitch.tv slash pen addict. Go there, press follow, and you'll be notified when he goes live next. Uh, you can find Brad on Instagram. He is pen addict. Dowdy is on my Twitter. Go to pen addict.com, knock.co, spoke design.com. Oh, I didn't even mention this. Uh, but you go to cortex brand, no cortex, merge.com, contact brand.com will take to the same place, but we now are doing subscriptions for the theme system journal. Oh, nice. I don't even think I told you about this. You didn't. We always

Brad: talked about that in the, in the early days in growth days of the brand. Yes. It's just

Myke: only made sense. Good. It's very much in a beta process at the moment because, you know, both us and cotton bureau are kind of working this out as we go along a little bit, because this is the first time cotton bureau have offered this, uh, but you can buy one and then you get entered into basically a quarterly shipping schedule and it's a fixed shipping schedule. This is the way that we're dealing with it, right? Because if you bought one and then we just shipped you one every three months or so, that would be fine, but that would be a nightmare for management. So you buy one and it tells you on the page when you'll get your next one. And then you, from then you'll make sure we'll make sure that you have one before the start of every quarter so that, you know, you'll have one before first of October, first of January, that kind of thing. Um, and it says on the website, when you, when you go on the theme system journal page, you kind of get an idea of it. And yeah, we're trying this out and we're going to see how it works. Uh, it's cheaper if you subscribe. So instead of $25, it's $20 per time. And we also include some little extras, stickers and stuff that only subscribers get. So you can check that out cortexmerch.com. Uh, it could be a good option. Uh, might talk about this more in the future. Once I've actually, once we've actually gotten a sense for, uh, how this thing is working, you know? Okay, cool. Uh, so yeah, theme system journal, you can go to theme system.com as well. If you want to learn more about it, brand new website, which I also haven't spoken about on the show, because I'm terrible, I suppose. Maybe it's good. I talk, we talk about it enough on cortex. If you listen there, you'll get, you know what's going on. Um, I'm Myke, I am YKE on Twitter and Instagram, mike.live for Twitch streaming. Thanks so much to Penn Chalet and Squarespace for the support of the show. But most of all, thank you for listening until then. Say goodbye, Brad Dowdy.

Brad: Goodbye, Brad Dowdy.

Myke: Bye.