The Pen Addict 465/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	465
Title:	Skittles Skulls
Release Date:	June 9th, 2021
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy
Guests:	Ben Walsh
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 465
Audio File:	Audio Episode 465
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 465
Length:	5151 min <br />0.85 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Brad: Hello, and welcome to The Pen Addict podcast. I'm your host, Brad Dowdy. This week, without my partner in crime, Myke Hurley. So, I'm out recruiting for new partners in crime, and I think I picked a pretty good one this week. It's a man I've talked to a bunch over the past year, and really not much longer than that, but I've gotten to know him a little bit as he's journeyed into this whole pen-making business that we like to follow so much. So, who do I have with me today?

Ben Walsh: Thanks, Brad. So, it is Ben from Ben Walsh Design, owner of Gravitas Pens. How are you, Ben? You doing good? I'm good, yes. This is my first podcast, so you might tell I'm a little bit nervous.

Brad: No worries. I don't bite. I'll guide you through this very easily. But I am going to put you on the spot with one question right up front. So, from my perspective, from where I'm sitting, are you Gravitas Pens, or are you Ben Walsh Designs, or is there kind of like an umbrella company type thing going on here?

Ben Walsh: It's kind of separated into two at the moment, but I will bring it under everything under Gravitas over the next year. It's kind of a bit too much to have Ben Walsh Design and Gravitas Pens, so all under one umbrella very soon.

Background and Early Influences

Brad: Yeah. So, I actually want to talk about the pre-Gravitas Pens time, which is kind of the Ben Walsh Designs time. Because as I was getting ready for this, I was learning a little bit more that you've actually been making things for a little while now, and not just pens. So, I want to dig into that. But how did the pen thing start with you? How did you get into pens? Did you have a fascination with pens when you were younger? Were you in the stationery realm at all, like when you were a kid? Did you even care what you wrote about with, and then suddenly you decided, well, I should make one?

Ben Walsh: No, actually. Well, yes. Stationery has always been very important to me, simply because of my dad. So, my dad, he is an artist. And since I can remember, he's been doing comic book art. And he had, do you know the Rotaring Isograph Pens?

Brad: Absolutely, yeah.

Ben Walsh: So, he had a bunch of them from when I was very young, these pens that I was never allowed to touch. So, I was always around some really high-end stationery. And I was always being dragged to shops that had the really high-end mechanical pencils and the drawing instruments that I had no clue what they were. But I got to see them from a very young age. My dad actually gave me a clutch pencil when I was four. So, I got to use some higher-end stuff at a very young age. So, I was using, like, Rotaring Pens and Staedtler clutch pencils.

Brad: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. And for those who don't know those Rotaring Isographs, Ben was not allowed to touch them because those tips are very fragile.

Brad: And, like, all the artists, they protect those with their lives, right?

Ben Walsh: Yeah, I did, like, break one at one point.

Brad: I think we all probably all have at some point. So, you were around stuff. And that's kind of like me. Like, I was just around, like, pens and paper and things like that. And then I started figuring out, for me, it was trying to figure out what I wanted to write with. For you, what made you decide to actually go out and make a pen? Like, were you... Do you have a manufacturing background? What was your business like, you know, before starting, like, the Gravitas Pens? You know, what got you involved in pen making in the beginning?

Ben Walsh: So, I have a huge background in manufacturing. I was a cabinet maker and a carpenter before I went into any of this. But it was probably college. No, it definitely was college that pushed me down this avenue. So, I did interior and furniture design. And everybody made wooden furniture. So, for our end-of-year project, we had to make three pieces of furniture. And everybody was making standard chairs and tables out of wood or metal. And I decided to do something different. And I started to explore concrete as a material. And my dad thought I was an idiot. Because why would you use concrete to make a chair? Or why would you use concrete to make a table? And I said, well, why wouldn't you? It's a brilliant material. And he just didn't get it. Around that time, though, my dad got very, very ill. And he's a very stoic man at the best of times. So, we didn't really talk much. I would never get much out of him other than, I think that's a bad idea. Just do something else. So, I decided to show him that concrete can be used in interesting ways. And because he collected stationery, I decided to make a concrete pen. Basically, just to talk to my dad about something. So, I made a concrete pen. It took me a year to figure it out. And when I finally did figure it out, he just thought it was a gimmick. But people liked it. It got a lot of attention. I shared it on LinkedIn. And I got 20,000 reshares. And some of the big companies in the States got in contact and said, can you make us pens? And that's how it started. I was like, wow, okay. And then he realized, okay, there is actually something to this. That's how it started. Wow. Okay. Trying to prove my dad wrong.

Brad: So, I picked up on this later from talking to you. Like, we've talked for a little while. And we're going to talk about how we met later online. But I picked up on this concrete pen manufacturing thing only a short time ago.

Brad: And kind of, you know, like your dad was alluding to, like saying, like, I just don't get it. Like, this is a thing that should not work, right? It should not work. But, you know, I've seen concrete pens that have actually blown my mind because it shouldn't work. And, like, when you got to that process down to actually make it, like, what was that? You said it took a year to kind of, you know, figure it out completely and put it out there. At what point, what were those challenges like? And what was that point where you said, I'm going to share this out there? And that's when you saw that feedback. Like, oh, people got it and understood it. Like, what was that process like trying to get to that inversion you were able to share with everyone?

Ben Walsh: I had a full-time job. I was working as a designer at the time. And I kind of had to just come home in the evenings and hunker down in my bedroom with different chemicals and different materials trying to just make this work. I hadn't a clue what I was doing. I actually made a few massive explosions of concrete in my bedroom. And I was actually banished down to the shed in the winter to do my experiments. But it took me a lot of money, a lot of time. I failed 50 times, more than 50 times. And it just kept going and going because every time I did it, I got a little bit better. Or I was able to make a concrete that was stronger or thinner. And I figured it out in the end. And to this day, I still don't tell people how I do it. Nor should you. Yeah. Yeah. A funny story about that. Because I'm not the first to do it. But there's people that think they own the right to do it. Because they came up with the idea first. But they didn't actually do it first. So I've had people try to sue me.

Brad: Interesting. Interesting. That's something you and I can take up offline. And I have thoughts on that. But yeah, that's interesting. Because I've had, you know, being in my position, I've definitely had concrete pens pass through my hands from small companies and large companies. So yeah, I think that's certainly an interesting topic. So you saw, like, that little bit of feedback come in that, oh, wow, can you make pens? You know, what was the moment that put you past, like, the concrete pens and making them? And, like, were the concrete pens, did you start selling them? Did you make them for those people that were reaching out and that became a thing? And then what was the next step after that?

Concrete Pen Development

Ben Walsh: So when I originally was making the concrete pens, I was using kits. So you can get a kit for a slimline pen. And it just wasn't right for the pens. That's what I was originally using. So I got in contact with the manufacturer of the kits. And I basically said, can you modify these kits for me to make them the way I want them? A little bit longer, a little bit wider here. Can you do that? And they said, yeah, but you've got to buy 2,000 kits at a time. And you need to supply us with the manufacturer's drawings and all the CAD files. And I had the ability to do that. And I did it. And it worked. And then I realized, OK, I know how to make machined pens because it's what I do. I make drawings for spec for companies to make things when it comes to kitchens and furniture. So I could actually do it on a smaller scale with pens. And that's how it began into the machine pens. I was doing pretty good from the concrete pens, but I knew I could do more. And concrete wasn't really where I wanted to. I didn't even know where I was going to go with pens. But I started with concrete. And here I am now with machine pens. And concrete is still a big part of what I do.

Brad: Around what year was the concrete pen when you started manufacturing more of those? What year was that?

Ben Walsh: So it would have been late 2016. And then early 2017 is when I started on the machine pens. So it kind of picked up pretty quickly for me.

Brad: So with the machine pens, were you still going down the mostly kit parts route? Or were you doing like the full machining of pretty much everything, you know, outside of the refill? Maybe a mechanism or two? Or what was the process then?

Ben Walsh: No, it was full machining. So the only thing I was getting was the K5 converters and the nibs. Everything else I was designing and getting manufactured.

Brad: Okay. I didn't go back into my email when you first emailed me and said, Hey, I want to send you some pens. But I think it was just last year, right? Like 2020? Like during the pandemic? Or was it like 2019? I can't recall.

Ben Walsh: It was definitely during the pandemic.

Brad: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like that year. So I just get an email, you know, Ben, hey, I make pens. And can I send you some? And to check out, just get your feedback. And I get, you know, a decent amount of those. And I honestly, I'm not going to lie. I don't always answer them. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I know something was compelling enough about what you said or how you went about it. And I was like, yeah, sure. Send me the pens and check them out. And I got them. And I liked them. And, you know, we started talking over email.

Brad: And, you know, you said you were eventually, like, I think I might have even shared them on stream. Like the prototypes. This was like before you decided to launch them on Kickstarter. So that's where I kind of want to pick it up was like where in this kind of line you've been making things for two or three years on your own, making pens for a few years. And I guess it's going well that you wanted to do something like the Kickstarter or reach out to someone like me and try to see, like, what else you could do? What was the idea behind broadening your pens and then going on to Kickstarter?

Ben Walsh: Well, I kind of figured that the concrete pens was eventually going to run out. There's only so many companies that want concrete pens. And once they get the concrete pens, that's it. There's only so many construction companies and so many cement companies. And I figured I need to get a different revenue stream going just in case this doesn't work out. So that's kind of one of the reasons why I had to, I didn't have to, but it's one of the reasons why I steered towards the machine pens. But doing the Kickstarter, you know, I was a big fan of watching different machinists on Instagram do what they do. So Tactile Turn or Ian Schoen or Nami Su or Ineso, they were the big companies that I watched when I was making my concrete pens. And they all started on Kickstarter and they did pretty good. And they're all doing brilliantly now. So that's why I went down the Kickstarter route.

Brad: And now we get to the reason why I brought you on this show or why I wanted to pick your brain a little bit more. Because unlike them, your Kickstarter failed. Yes. And I wanted to talk about that. And I want to understand from your perspective, because what I've seen since them, since that time, has been nothing short of extraordinary from my perspective. And that's when I realized that this Ben Walsh guy, he's a different cat. And you said something a minute ago, and I wrote it down right here on my piece of paper about your concrete pens in your bedroom. I failed 50 times. You just said that a minute ago. Yep. And the same thing happened with this Kickstarter, except it only failed once. What was your thought process when that did not succeed?

Ben Walsh: I was very confused. Very confused. Because I followed, you follow these rules, how to be successful on Kickstarter. You download all the PDFs and you read all the books and you fail. So I was so confused. What did I do wrong? You know, I contacted all the reviewers. I got their opinions. You know, I thought I made a really good quality product. But I didn't have the formula. I didn't have the formula. Right. And I just couldn't figure it out. I employed a marketing company and I paid a lot of money to market the campaign. I failed. I just couldn't figure it out. We were in a pandemic. You know, people weren't willing to part ways with money so easily. And also, there was other pen companies launching pens on Kickstarter at the same time as me. And you're sharing the market then. And one of the companies. It was probably one of the biggest Kickstarter pen companies launched the pen at the same time I launched the pen. So I, it was terrible timing. In the middle of a pandemic. And then launching a pen at the same time as one of the biggest companies out there.

Brad: Yeah. So all of these things out of your control kind of happened. And I think a lot of people might have just said, okay, well, let me just go back to doing what I do best and doing what I know. And you decided, well, I'm not really going to take no for an answer on this Kickstarter, right? The Kickstarter was a no. No, you can't have this. No, you can't move forward with these. And you said, well, forget that. We're just going to go for it anyway. So what was that decision-making process like to say, well, you know, I thought I did what I was supposed to do. It didn't work. Now what?

Kickstarter Challenges

Ben Walsh: So basically when it happened, when I, I knew I was going to fail, like halfway through the Kickstarter, I knew I was going to fail. And I panicked, you know, I had to get contingency plans in place. What do I do? Because I didn't have a job. Pens were my job. It was my, my, my life. It was how I was meant to survive, I suppose. And so panic station. How do I make this work? I'm after putting 20,000 euro into this. I can't just give up. If it only takes another few thousand euro, can I get this to work? The idea with the Kickstarter was to get the funds to expand the pen business as quickly as possible and bring as many products out as quickly as possible. So I took a loan out. Simple as. I had to take the risk. I took a loan out and I pushed ahead with it. And it was daunting because that was my income to make pens and I wasn't making money. So I had to do it or I, there was no, there was no option to get a job because in the middle of the pandemic, nobody was hiring. So it was go hard or go home. So I doubled down.

Brad: I, this is exactly what I wanted you on. I'm fascinated by this whole conversation. I kind of had a feeling this is where it was going to go, but not really. Like, I don't, I don't want to know too much before I interview someone the first time. Right. And like, I kind of have in my head and I'm like, okay, this is kind of what I want to see here and how it's going. And yeah, I'm, I'm just kind of flummoxed by the whole situation because it's unique in our space. Like, and I wanted to point this out that a lot of times people only see the successes and the initial successes or the big initial boom and yours ended up being kind of backwards. Right. So like the, you know, you were successful, you know, at first with the concrete pens and you went to Kickstarter and that didn't go as intended, but now things, you know, I'll let you speak on whether things are turning around later. But when we get more into like what Gravitas pens is now, but seeing just what you've gone through and decided to push forward within the last year is, is fascinating to me. So let's, um, let's get into where we're at now. But first I want to stop real quick. Me and Myke, we got to pay some bills around here. So we're going to take a little ad break real quick. Myke and I have something cool to tell you about, and I'm going to be right back with Ben.

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Brad: They're very cool. Do you know why I like these so much? Please tell me. Because I already love the SD. Like the shape, what the SD is and what Esther Brook did with making the SD is really great, right? It's a good shape. It's a good size. It's a good feel. It's a great writer. It's all the things I look for in a good pen. And then you have the special edition like the gold rush takes what I already love and makes it even awesomer with these unique materials. They're shiny. They're sparkly. They fit your style. You know, if you're looking for a pen with real character and an awesome writing experience. That's why I love them. Like it takes something I already love and upgrades it. That's what we're all here for. Right, Myke? We want that next pen upgrade.

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Brad: All right. So now we're full on into Gravitas pens. And I'm talking about now, like literally today. But right after Kickstarter, what was the idea? Like the next step is like, okay, I've taken out this loan. I'm, like you said, doubling down. What was the idea for that doubling down? How were you going to go about things?

Ben Walsh: Well, I knew exactly how much things were going to cost. Because what people don't know is I have made three or four different rounds of prototypes. So I had a good idea of costs. So I knew exactly what I needed to get it done. But to do the first round, I wasn't going to be able to make profit. But I was going to be able to get my product out there. For people to see it. And when I launched the pen without Kickstarter and people could actually buy it. I offered the pen to everybody that backed me on the Kickstarter for the discount. That they could have originally gotten on the Kickstarter. So I actually made a loss. And the business decision was to make a loss. To get more people to see my product. And that did happen. People started to see my product. And I kind of built a reputation for a good quality product for the price I was doing it at. And also my customer service. I'm very active with my customers. And I try to respond to everybody. So that's what I did in the beginning. That's what I made sure I had to do. To make sure that people knew who I was. And that I was here to make a difference. Even if I was making a loss.

Brad: Yeah. And that's a tough decision to make after you've just gone through doing the Kickstarter stuff. And like you said, you're taking a loan. You're not making anything. You're not having a job. But what is it about the Gravitas pen that just made you want to pursue this and go through all of this? Instead of just throwing your hands up in the air, what is it about making pens that you wanted to get out there and share with everybody?

Ben Walsh: I get excited every time I make a new pen. The next design is always my next favorite pen. And the chase of getting the next design and something that everybody likes and something that somebody likes, at least one person likes, that's what kind of drives me to do what I do. So you probably wonder, why do I produce so many different things so quickly? That's on my list. Oh, well, we'll get to that then.

Brad: No, don't we now? Don't we now?

Ben Walsh: So my original Phantom pen, I made that for me. That's what I wanted. That's what I like. But not everybody likes that pen. It's too big. It's too heavy. So I have to make pens that other people like. And I might not necessarily find that pen comfortable, but other people will. So I got to make pens for other people. I got to make pens that I know they will like. I do a lot of research. I follow a lot of the trends to see what people like. So I knew what I needed to make. So I did it for the customers. I know that sounds like a bit of a cliche, but I did it to give them a product that I knew that they wanted. And I designed it as best as I could. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah. I can appreciate that philosophy that the first thing you make, you make it because you want it. Like you're not satisfied with something else that you see and you have the ability and the wherewithal to make the thing that you want. But now that it's a business was like, well, I can't just make what Brad wants or what Ben wants all the time because then I'll be back looking for a job again. And we have to work on other things. And what I was going to say earlier, like one of the things I want to talk about and we'll kind of jump ahead and I'll backtrack a little bit is just the proliferation of designs that you've had come out in. And what would you say like the past, let's see, where are we, June? Like in 2021, like this year, like is when I've really seen everything just kind of jump out in front on Gravitas pens. And what would you say, how many models do you think you have out now between fountain pens and ballpoints? I mean, it's well into the double digits, right?

Ben Walsh: Including all the different patterns and colors. Oh, I don't even know. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's quite a few.

Brad: Yeah, if you go look at Gravitas pens and there's just, you know, there's different shapes of fountain pens. And then those fountain pen shapes take on different elements, you know, whether it's materials or whether it's etching and anodization and design. We're going to talk about all that stuff. So how did you decide what was going to be after those first pens, like you followed up on the Kickstarter, you made the first fountain pen. How did you decide what was going to be next and how frequent and how often you were going to start putting those designs out, new designs?

Ben Walsh: Well, I didn't really have a plan on how frequently I would do it, but I knew that I wanted to make a pocket pen.

Brad: Okay.

Ben Walsh: I have a Kaweco sport and I love it. So I wanted to make my version of that. And when I was literally the week I was about to launch it or announce it, somebody else launched a pocket pen. And as a business decision, I decided, no, not now. Because I knew from past experience, if you try to compete with one of the big players, you're not going to win. You're not going to be successful.

Brad: Yet.

Ben Walsh: Yet. So I decided to hold back on that design. But that's where the entry pen came from, from a pocket pen. So to design a pocket pen, you have to design it as a full-size pen first and then cut the end off and make it into a pocket pen. So I had a full-size pen, which became the entry pen. So that's how the entry pen came to be. It was going to be a pocket pen and still is going to be a pocket pen.

Brad: That is one for all the pens and stuff. So we'll have all the links to Ben's stuff and all the designs that he does. And we're going to, like I said, we're going to talk about even more of them. For all the designs that you do, the one specific question I put in our notes that I shared with you beforehand is, how did the entry pen happen? Because it didn't happen first. And it's named the entry pen. And it's designed to be, basic is the wrong word, right? But it is, it's not complex. It's not overwhelming. It's not over-manufactured. But it's highly engineered. It's high quality. It's at a fair price point. It really kind of lives up to the name. Except it wasn't the first pen. So that helps answer the question. So this is normally the first pen. And I don't know why I'm just enamored with this pen. And people have heard me gush about this pen several times. Why do I like this pen so much, Ben? Why? I don't know. You tell me. Yeah, I don't know. I think, honestly, it's something you said earlier, you know, about making pens for you. You generally like the bigger, heavier pens. I generally like the thinner, lighter pens. And that's what you get with the entry, right? So it fits my hand. My writing needs better. It's a lighter weight. It's aluminum-based. Yeah. It's a comfortable grip section. It's just kind of the right size and scale of a pen that I like. And to me, having tried some of your other pens, for being the entry, it's kind of an outlier in the rest of your product lineup.

Entry Pen Controversy

Ben Walsh: Yeah, I've gotten a lot of stick for the name that I've given it, the entry pen. A lot of people are saying that it's kind of a bit more advanced and much higher quality than you should expect to get for your first fountain pen. But I suppose the better way of explain it would be the entry into gravitas pens. So this is what you should expect. If you are going to get a gravitas pen, this is the minimum quality that you should expect to get. I also wanted to make a pen that was accessible for people. If you look at some of the pens that I produce, they're big, they're heavy, and some of them are quite expensive. They're not accessible. So the entry pen is accessible. So it's easy to get to. It's easy to afford. It's easy to use. So I definitely should have chosen a different name in hindsight.

Brad: I don't know. It gives me a story to tell. It gives me something to quiz you on. Now I'm not your regular customer that's going, Ben, what have you done here? I get it. I understand what you're trying to do. And the thing you said about it being the minimum you should expect, like the machining level is pristine. So now we expect all of them to be pristine, and I think they are. So let's talk about some of these other ones. Because before the entry happened, you got a little crazy. You started laser etching a lot of patterns, gothic designs, skulls, anodization, rainbows. Different materials, different finishes. Tell me what happened from our first standard smooth black anodized aluminum to something like the rainbow skulls.

Brad: Okay.

Ben Walsh: Where do I begin? So I originally got my laser to laser etch my concrete pens. I was spending so much money on laser etching. I decided it was more cost effective to buy a laser. So I bought a laser.

Brad: I'm raising my hand in agreement with that statement.

Ben Walsh: So I had this laser, and I knew it could do amazing things. But I just didn't know how to make it do what I wanted it to do. And I contacted companies and asked them, could you show me how to do this? And nobody really knew how to do it. So I kind of had to make a process myself. So I've had this laser for nearly two years now. So I've been experimenting with doing these patterns and textures for two years. And I kind of held off on putting them onto pens because I just hadn't perfected it yet. But for quite some time, Dries from the Pencil Case blog, he was bugging me and telling me that I needed to do patterns on my pens. It would be kick-ass if I did that. And I kind of held off. I was like, oh. But this is something very important. Listen to reviewers. They know what to do in this industry. They know their stuff.

Brad: He's a good one to listen to.

Ben Walsh: Yeah. So if a reviewer says they don't like something about your pen, listen to them. Just listen to them. It's very important. And if they like something about your pen and they think it's going to be really cool if you did it, listen to them and do it. Because they know their stuff. So I did it. So I just kind of did it as a test. And I got a really good reaction. So I said, okay, I'll do a few more. Once again, I got a very good reaction. So that's where the crazy laser etchings came from. Back to the coatings and the crazy PVD stuff. So I decided to do a master's in 3D design kind of around Christmas. And I wanted to focus on coatings for materials. So I started doing a lot of research into different types of coatings for pens. Originally, I was doing the research for antibacterial coatings because I wanted to make a lot of antibacterial products. But I discovered some really cool stuff. And it's not something that isn't known in the industry. But these coatings really interested me. And I wanted to put them on my pens. And the rainbow one, definitely.

Ben Walsh: So it just took... The problem with the rainbow PVD coating in the beginning is it can only be put on titanium or steel. And it makes a very heavy pen. But I wanted that coating on a pen. So that's why I went and did it. But since then, I have now figured a process out of getting that rainbow coating on an aluminium pen. So expect to see the Skittles in aluminium very soon.

Brad: I may have seen that Instagram post today, you know, on the date that we're recording. This was about a week before we send this off into the wild. And I saw that. I was like, oh, now that's cool. That is interesting.

Ben Walsh: Yeah. It's something I was working on since January. And there was a few failures in the experiments. I can't do it on polished surfaces. I have to do it on matte, bead, plastic surfaces. But it worked. And there was no failure. The failure rate for the polish was too high. And there was no failures with the matte finish. So I was very, very happy. I'm excited. I'm excited about that.

Brad: I think you're probably not the only one excited about that. So I want to talk more about making stuff. Let me chat with Myke again real quick for one of our sponsors this week. And, you know, we will get into some of the manufacturing stuff that kind of gets me going.

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Brad: So much so that I treated myself this week, Myke. I just received, I mean, let's face it. Every time I use Harry's, it's like treating myself, right? It's treating myself to the best shaving experience. And I am a believer in their shave cream. And I was running out. So as I do, I order multiple large size shave cream bottles to sit on my counter. And then Myke, I went out on a limb. I bought myself a travel size one just in case. Oh, there's a time coming soon. And I just went ahead and threw that in my travel kit. And, you know, just I'm prepared for the future. I also threw in a coffee mug, Myke. Harry's does awesome stuff for Pride Month. So I treated myself. Father's Day presents, Pride Month celebration. I got a Prouder Than Ever mug. Or excuse me. Yeah. Prouder Than Ever mug from artist Zipeng Zhu, who is the artist that Harry's is working with this month with 100% of the profits donated to the Trevor Project, which is fantastic. So I've been using my Pride razor handle for, I think, three years now. And it's the one I use every time I shave. And if that doesn't tell you anything about the quality of Harry's products, that I've been using the same razor handle for years. And no end in sight. Just got to keep getting those Gothic arch blades and that shave cream. And I'm a happy camper.

Myke: Okay. I love that Gothic arch. Harry's giving their best deal to the Pan Addict listeners. New Harry's customers can get a starter set for just $3. Plus, Harry's is doing a limited time offer for all customers. Starting now through Father's Day, you can take $5 off any shave set at harrys.com slash Pan Addict. There has never been a better time to try Harry's. So go to harrys.com slash Pan Addict to start your own Harry's journey or to save a few bucks on a special gift for a father figure in your life. Thanks to Harry's for their support of this show and Relay FM.

Brad: All right. So what does your manufacturing look like? Like day to day? Like, do you have a shop? Do you work out of the house? Like, what do people need to know about like how you're making stuff? Like, are you getting in there, getting your hands dirty, making these pens? How is all of that working for Gravitas?

Manufacturing Process

Ben Walsh: And so with the, well, with Gravitas, I don't manufacture the pens myself. I do have a workshop, but I can't produce the pens to the quality or as quickly as I'd need to. So I have manufacturers that I use for that. But I do a lot of stuff in-house when it comes to the finishing of pens, the laser etchings. I can machine stuff if I needed to make a custom section. I can do all that. But it's not something that I do a lot of. A lot of my time is, literally a lot of my time is just spent etching pens, polishing pens, assembling pens, packaging pens. Because that takes a ridiculous amount of time.

Brad: It does. It does. I know exactly what you mean by that. It's like, it's a crazy amount of time. Because I can tell like what you said earlier, it's important what goes out into the customer's hand is perfect every time. And I know you and I would both admit to making stuff and we hate it if something gets out that we didn't mean to get out. But it happens sometimes. But like you said, customer service is at the forefront and how you handle those things. And I know that's a big thing for you as well.

Ben Walsh: Yeah. I had one bad review of my pens. So the pen was brilliant, but the nib had too much feedback. And now when I first started, what I would do is I would test right with every single nib. I would never tune the nib because I didn't know how to tune a nib. So I would test it. And if it was scratchy, then I just dumped the nib. I throw it in the dump pile. And a pen got out that had a scratchy nib and a review was done on it. And I was devastated because I just couldn't figure out how that happened. So I straight away, you know, Paul Burberry?

Brad: Yeah. Oh, yes. I very much love Paul. So Paul.

Ben Walsh: Machinist Paul. Yes. Paul's been great. He's actually been one of the guys that has helped me massively behind the scenes with figuring out machining. And needing to know what I need to know. I basically said to Paul, would you teach me how to tune some nibs? So I jumped onto Zoom and did a few lessons with Paul and learned how to adjust the nib and polish things and make sure everything was good to go. And still, the odd nib does get out. That's not perfect. But I'm more confident with that.

Brad: Yeah. So what does the design process look like now? I hesitate to ask you what's coming up next because things come out so fast, you know. And, you know, I've seen you launch just so many things just recently. And like I said, you just had an Instagram post of something that's coming soon.

Brad: And you don't have to spill all the secrets. But are you working on something right now that has you pretty excited about what to come?

Ben Walsh: A few. A few things. So actually, I did clear this with Paul before telling you this. But Paul, you know the safety pen that Paul designed? Yes. So Paul has been having trouble getting that manufactured. But I can get it manufactured. But he designed it in Imperial. And I'm in Metric. And my manufacturer uses Metric. So me and Paul had a little chat. And Paul basically asked if I could make it for him. And we would put it onto the Gravitas brand. I said, hell yeah. So it's a collaboration more than anything else. So I'm going to basically make the safety pen. It's a demonstrator version of the safety pen. Now, that will probably be another six to eight months away, I'd say. But that's coming. And I'm really excited about that. Because that is the most complex pen that I've ever got my hands on.

Brad: Yeah. And we probably just broke your email inbox for you saying that on the show. So sorry about that. In advance.

Ben Walsh: Oh, emails. I don't know. Someone did a video on one of my pens last week. And I got 5,000 emails.

Brad: Wow.

Ben Walsh: It broke me. It literally broke me.

Brad: Well, we won't do that. I promise. So the Gravitas brand as a whole. You have a certain design aesthetic that surprised me when I saw it. When you sent me the Skittles pens. And I was unboxing them on stream. And I had these wonderful, bright, fun tubes. They came in. And I was like, oh, what are these markings on the side of this barrel? Of this packaging? I was like, I don't know anything about that. And then everyone started to explain them. They're like, no, that's the Ogham language. Do I have that pronunciation correct? Why is that on your packaging? Why is that important for you to have represented there? I think it's a pretty neat touch.

Ben Walsh: So the pronunciation is Om. It's not Om. Om. So good. See? Yeah. Wow.

Brad: That is brutal.

Ben Walsh: I'm Irish.

Ben Walsh: And I'm very proud of it. But without putting an Irish flag across my packaging, I decided to do something a bit more subtle and use the ancient Celtic language. I love it. I think it looks beautiful. So I was kind of messing around with ideas. And I just liked it. I just liked it over everything else. And I decided, right, I'm going to go with this. I originally just wanted to stick my arrow logo on my packaging. But no, I decided to go a bit further than that and throw in a few different details. With some of the larger packaging, there's even more on that. And I don't think anybody actually knows what it said. So I had to translate it. But I think I'll probably start doing more of that. Not too much of it. I don't want to annoy people with my strange language.

Brad: Well, it's not like we can run OM through Google Translate and figure out what it says, right?

Ben Walsh: It's quite difficult to translate it. Even for myself, it would take me a couple of minutes to translate something. So even though I'm Irish and I use OM, I don't actually know how to read it. If I'm honest.

Brad: So we talked about the future products and stuff. Do you see yourself, as we're rounding up, getting through these pandemic times, do you see a future where you might try to bring Gravitas to a pen show? Either, you know, I don't know what Ireland has to offer, but I know there's shows in the UK. There's shows in Western Europe. Do you ever, is that something you've ever considered or think about like, you know, a year from now?

Ben Walsh: Oh, yeah. So I really, really wanted to get to Washington this year or San Francisco. I've really tried to figure out if it could be possible to do. So I'm not allowed to travel without a vaccine. And I'm not entitled to get a vaccine until maybe late August at this rate. And that's just too late. But it's definitely something I really want to do. I've been told that it's really important to get to these shows. You know, to put a face to the brand is massively important. And I really want to get out there. I really want to show people who I am and what I do. But yeah, I can't do it yet. And I will more than likely go to a show in Europe sooner rather than later. And if I'm allowed, as soon as I'm allowed to travel, I'll be out of here.

Brad: Gotcha. I think we're all kind of working on that as well as like, you know, we're ready. We've missed being out there. I love, you know, getting to meet people like yourselves at pen shows. That's like one of the best things about it. So I think we've about covered it today. And I'm wondering, is there anything else we need to cover? What else do we need to talk about about Gravitas? We talked about some coming soon stuff that's exciting. Are the concrete pens ever going to make a comeback? Is that a mass market thing? Is there something besides like a fountain pen or even a writing instrument that you're playing around with? Because you strike me as the type that has like a sketchbook full of notes and is just always fidgeting with something.

Ben Walsh: Yeah. So I have a design for a couple of mechanical pencils and a few concrete fountain pens, pocket pens, magnet type pens, piston pens. It's I've got quite a lot in the sketchbook. And I probably have about 50, 60 different ideas running around. That's fantastic. And currently at the moment, that pen that you got, the other pen that you got with the micro texture. So I'm exploring the micro texture a bit more.

Future Product Plans

Brad: I just saw those come up on Instagram. I've been looking for those. That's a really cool kind of a twist mechanism pen.

Ben Walsh: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to be making a few more ballpoint pens. I really would like to break into the EDC market. It's not easy. But that's something that I'm trying to do.

Ben Walsh: That's pretty much it. So the pocket pen, piston pen, safety pen. There's a few. Yeah. And then, oh, actually, yeah. I've got a Cerakote pen as well.

Brad: Nice. I love that finish.

Ben Walsh: I can't really confirm yet if I'm going to have the Ebonite feeds or not, because I have Ebonite on the way, but I'm worried about the quality. So if the quality is good, they're going in my pens. If it's not, they're not going in my pens.

Brad: Such is the life of a maker. Yeah. The amount of experimentation is massive.

Ben Walsh: I'm also working on a number eight nib, a titanium nib, for a bigger version of the entry pen. So I don't know what to call that.

Brad: Oh, yeah. That could be interesting, naming something like that. All right. Well, Ben, you're awesome. I think it's pretty clear that you are awesome. And I think people will find that out today, which is why I wanted to get you on, because I just find your story super interesting. It's a little bit different than what we get to hear sometimes. But I think what we're seeing just as a collective community from you and your designs at Gravitas Pens, I think you're going to be around for a long time and in our space. And I'm super glad to have finally gotten the time to talk to you and you sharing a little bit about your background on this show. So thank you so much for doing that.

Ben Walsh: Thanks, Brad. And I really appreciate you having me on here. This was a wonderful opportunity. Thank you so much.

Brad: Absolutely. So besides Gravitaspens.com, anywhere else people check you out on Instagram. What's your Instagram handle?

Ben Walsh: Ben Walsh Design. I do have a Gravitas Instagram page, but I share all the juicy behind the scenes, how I do things and making on the Ben Walsh Design page. Okay. And the Gravitas page is just for the sake of having it. I kind of like post what I'm doing and the interesting stuff is on Ben Walsh Design.

Brad: Definitely. All right. I love it, Ben. Thank you so much again. And I will talk to you soon.

Ben Walsh: Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you.