The Pen Addict 303/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	303
Title:	Live from the Atlanta Pen Show 2018
Release Date:	April 15th, 2018
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	Ana Reinert Lisa Vanness Jim Rouse
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 303
Audio File:	Audio Episode 303
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 303
Length:	6363 min <br />1.05 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Ana Reinert: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 303. Today's show is brought to you by Harry's and Panshele. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr. Brad Dowdy. Hello Myke Hurley and hello Atlanta, Georgia.

Ana Reinert: And of course, a live episode of The Pen Addict would not be complete without the one and only Anna Reinhardt. Hi Anna.

Brad Dowdy: Hello. Hi everybody.

Atlanta Pen Show

Ana Reinert: So we're back in Atlanta for the fourth time. Four years in Atlanta. We're thinking about the fact that next year is five years, which feels like a pretty important thing.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I think we might have to do something a little special for that.

Ana Reinert: Yeah, don't know what yet. Send in your answers on a postcard. Thanks to everyone for helping us get here. All of our Kickstarter backers, of course, we have some of them in our audience today. So thank you to everyone that did that. And I'm sure we have many. Well, I know we have many more missing at home because we couldn't fit everyone in this room. I would like to do that one day, maybe hire out an auditorium somewhere. Seems like a pretty impossible task. But thanks to everyone for joining us. We have something special for people in the room today. Anna, would you like to explain what you have done?

Brad Dowdy: What you have wrought upon us.

Brad Dowdy: Thanks to the technical genius of Alexander Kramer and a long car ride from Arkansas to Kansas City, Bob and I cooked up the idea of turning the whole idea of pen addict bingo into an actual thing. A physical thing. A physical thing. We actually printed bingo cards. So everybody in the audience here has actual paper bingo cards, which are doubling as fans right now because it's kind of hot in here. Yep. But yeah, so Alex made it possible. Alexander made it possible for us to have a hundred plus random bingo cards here in the audience. So hopefully someone will bingo right here.

Ana Reinert: Yes. So like fools, we are allowing for the bingo to be called. Yeah.

Ana Reinert: During the show. So at any point we may have to stop as someone will call bingo. We will just take down the name of that person and then after the show they're going to be given a prize. I am going to call it at one winner so it doesn't continue to happen constantly because the more it happens, the more it will happen because it will just continue to get more filled up. Right. So there will be one winner for a line we're going to do. Right. I guess. Yeah. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: And we have to always ask Daddy Myke for permission to do these things like breaking up his technical audio recording for the podcast.

Ana Reinert: So much anxiety, Brad. Just like so much that you bring upon me, but I love you. Thank you. And we, so yeah, there's going to be a bingo during this episode. Hopefully. We'll see. So we are at the Atlanta Pen Show. So Brad, I wanted to know how has it been for you this year? Has it been busier than usual? About the same? It's Saturday. It's end of Saturday. I feel really tired because I'm a little bit sick. But how have you been feeling?

Myke Hurley: Yeah. We've had two of the best days we've ever had at the Atlanta Pen Show. This crowd has been amazing. Our tables at Nock have been packed and ransacked repeatedly throughout the weekend so far. The first two days, the overall feel of the show. So we've been doing this podcast four years here and I started coming to this show maybe two to three years prior to that. And I think this is the biggest and best ever. And you don't want to say that every year because it feels like you're being phony. But this year it really feels genuine that I've never seen so many like great people and packed hallways and full bars. This is the largest live audience we've ever had too. Yeah. The live audience is fantastic. So just from a general overview, it's got to be one of the biggest and best that they've done from a business perspective. So I'm also here for NotCo, our pen case company. You may have heard of us. Who?

Myke Hurley: You know, the Friday sales were better than any other Friday we've ever had. So and that goes for all shows. So this has been crazy. And just the general feel and vibe of this show have been really outstanding. I've talked to a lot of vendors who are repeating the same thing to me. They are ecstatic with the turnout. We have a lot of new vendors because they hear about this show. And, you know, I don't want to hype man us too much. But I mean, we're a little bit of that reason why this show is growing. And I'm proud of that. Like I take it I take it seriously that everyone comes to the show and has fun. It's a big deal for me that, you know, all of y'all put your faith in listening to us babble on about pens for so many episodes. And it's it's really important to me that everyone has a good time at this show. And I want to see it succeed and make it the best show we can. So thank you.

Ana Reinert: Oh, look at that. A round of applause.

Ana Reinert: Brad Dowdy for mayor of Georgia. Yeah. And what about you? Like as well as just the daytime, the evening activities are always fun at the pen show. If you find that to be any more vibrant or different this year to last year.

Brad Dowdy: It's we've everybody's been having a really good time. I mean, they keep changing the bar restaurant situation. I think they keep making the table smaller.

Ana Reinert: I don't know if they're trying to get out of here.

Brad Dowdy: Like closing the bar down earlier, but it hasn't lessened anybody's enthusiasm for hanging out. And I think everybody has been like everyone who sits in the bar area and in the restaurant area is still very warm and welcoming to new people who are coming and sitting down and sharing. And there's, you know, we keep passing like this time we just sat at the bar and just kept passing pens down. Yes. Last night we actually handed the bartender. Somebody handed her a metropolitan and said, you're going to get better tips if you give this pen to people to sign your to sign the bill. And she's like she said she said, I can't take this pen. And they're like, no, seriously, it's OK. Take the pen. And she and literally like we watched her turn around and give it to somebody to sign a bill. And they're like, oh, excellent. And I think they gave her a bigger tip. And we're like, we told you that was going to work.

Myke Hurley: Shout out to Brittany.

Brad Dowdy: And it was and she was like, oh, this is really cool. And we're like, this works. And I think something very similar happened in D.C. was that they gave the bartender a fountain pen. And he's like, this is awesome. And he kept getting better tips the entire time. And we're like, trust us, this will work.

Ana Reinert: So as well as attending, we do attend as like people coming to buy stuff as well. Usually. Brad, have you made any purchases this year?

Myke Hurley: I have made zero purchases so far this year. But Sunday is usually the day at this show if I do buy anything because I'm so busy Friday and Saturday. Like I barely get around to like run errands if I need to run errands. You know, we squeeze in lunch if we can. Right. So. Barbecue place, cold fire. Yeah. So that was it. So Rip Heirloom Barbecue. Check their Instagram. Wow.

Brad Dowdy: We got in under the wire then.

Myke Hurley: So all you Friday Heirloom Barbecue eaters, you did good. All you Saturday Heirloom Barbecue. Like us. Full worms. You're out of luck. Out of luck. So, yeah. We love you, Heirloom. We love you, Heirloom. And give us a shout out, Connor. When you get back in shape. So, yeah. I mean, it's just been fantastic. Anna, have you bought anything?

Brad Dowdy: I was lucky enough to hit a couple tables in our little small room. But it was literally a case of like woodshed pens was literally two tables over. And I walked over and I'm like, how long have you been here? And he's like, Friday. And he's like, I came in a little late. And I'm like, well, good. I don't feel quite so bad that I didn't realize you were here. And then I just, I walked over and I literally put my well-appointed desk stickers on most of his pens. And I'm like, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine. That's a good climbing method. Yeah. And he was like, that's not really going to work, you know.

Ana Reinert: It's easy to just give money in exchange.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. That's usually a better method. But, yeah. So, I basically kind of just said, okay. All right. I'll take this one. And he held it back for me. But I haven't actually really completed the purchase yet. So, most of my purchases have not actually been completed. But they are. They're on the way. Yes. The negotiation has begun. Yes. Yeah. We'll finish transactions tomorrow.

Ana Reinert: I have not purchased any pens this year. And I'm actually expecting to buy no pens at the show. And there's a couple of reasons. And there's a couple of things happening. So, one, Brad gave me a pen, which we're going to talk about in a minute, which I'm very excited to talk about. But I went to Jonathan Brooks' table. And he sought out of everything at, like, Friday afternoon. So, that didn't go so well. Everything's just gone.

Ana Reinert: Okay. It's a tip for next time. Get this straight away. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: So, our rule at pen shows is generally, like, take a lap first. Get the lay of the land. And Jonathan is the exception to that rule. If you see it, you should buy it right then. Yes.

Ana Reinert: I still want my king of pen. But I'm not getting it yet. And I don't know why. I haven't got a real good reason for this. People are like, oh, it's because of the wedding. It's not because of the wedding. I actually haven't got a real reason. I like Brad's. Brad's is the blue one. What is it called? The sky? Sky. Pro gear sky. They don't make that one anymore. That's all gone. And the next one is the ocean, which is not a demonstrator. And for some reason, I want to demonstrate one. And you can get a clear one. And I kind of want it. But I'm just not going to get it yet. And I don't know what it is. I don't know why. I want it. But I'm not buying it. It's very strange. I guess I'm pretty strange this time. I have actually spent money on a pen that I didn't buy at the pen show, which I can't talk about now. But can talk about next week.

Brad Dowdy: Aha.

Ana Reinert: And I'm only mentioning this because if you are a Canalea fan.

Ana Reinert: Gotcha. We are the worst. You want to tune in next week live to the show at 10 a.m. Eastern. You just do.

Ana Reinert: To avoid disappointment. But no, I haven't bought anything. But you gave me something. So over the last few months, Brad keeps buying me pens. He just keeps buying me pens. In a way that this has kind of never happened before. I don't know what happened. Maybe you pity me this year because I'm going to a wedding. I'm going to a wedding. I don't even know. I'm attending this wedding. But Brad keeps sending me pictures of classic retro 51s that he's been buying. I don't even like you. I don't know why I do this. It's very strange. And there was something that Brad found me. It's called the retro 51 Abondanza. And this is a pen that we couldn't find online. And can you tell the story about how you came across it? Yeah. So I was at the Little Rock Pen Show. And everyone's talking. I was like, why is everyone looking down? I said retro 51. So they were all marking off the bingo card. I was like, I lost everyone's attention. That's why.

Myke Hurley: So I was at the Arkansas Pen Show, which is awesome. And we'll talk to Lisa Vaness about the Arkansas Pen Show later. And I just go to that show to hang out. I don't really work. I help out Lisa. I help out the show. So I get time to shop. And when you actually have time to look around and see what else is out there, sometimes you run across some really neat things. And I've always had my eye on the retro 51 stuff for Myke because I know he likes it so much. Like I like retro 51. He has true issues with retro 51. It's a real genuine love. Yeah. So he absolutely loves them. So I saw this weird box on a table. And I opened it up. And the box has like this retro 51 imprint on it. And I pick up the pen. And the pen has no markings on it for the brand or anything at all. And I'm super confused about what this is. And the person whose table I bought it from was not real sure what it is. But it had the original box. It had the retro 51 sticker. So I did what any true pen addict would do. I DMed. DMed. Well, I bought it because the price was super fair for just taking a shot at something. And then I emailed retro 51 to say, what do I have here? They said, ah. Because this was unfindable on Google. Right. You Google it and it did not show up anywhere. And this has like a real label. Like it was a real product. And it's a real kind of fancy pen.

Myke Hurley: And so in this box, it had two section, two holes cut out of it for nib units. And there was only one nib unit. And when I emailed retro 51, they said, oh, yeah, that was a pen we did a while back. We don't, you know, it didn't do real well at the time. And do you have both nib units? They knew exactly what it was. And I said, no, I only have the rollerball nib unit for it. And they said, well, let me see if I can find you a fountain pen nib unit for it.

Ana Reinert: Because it's interchangeable. So it comes, it's one body, but you can put in a rollerball and it has like the cuff that you would tighten around it. Or it had a space in the box for a fountain pen.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So like a week later, a fountain pen nib from retro 51 for this super strange. Abundanza. Abundanza. That's how I say it.

Ana Reinert: I feel like I should have said it normally once before I said it weirdly. I don't know that there is a normal person. But like we just keep saying it like that because it feels like the only way. So this pen is super weird. The box is really awesome. It's like a wooden box that you open up and then the pen kind of raises out of the box. I absolutely love this. And I love Brad so much for buying it for me because it's, it has become a prized possession now because it's so friggin weird. Like I love it. It's like so strange. Like I don't, I can see why that maybe didn't sell very well because it like it, it is a odd pen. Like what do you do with the other half of it? Right. So like when, when you want to use it as the fountain pen and then you just have like a rollable refill and like a, what would you even call it? I don't really know how to describe it. I mean, it's just a section. It's the front end of the pen. So like, and you just put it somewhere. Like, I don't know where it's supposed to go, but like, I love that it is this really strange pen. It has no branding on it except for on the nib. And the nib is this like beautiful art deco style nib. And yeah, it's really nice. I'm going to take a picture of it and put it in the show notes so people can see what we're talking about. But this is just this super weird pen that has like completely satiated my desire to buy anything. Yeah. For this weekend.

Myke Hurley: And I'll tell you the truth. It cost me 40 bucks. It wasn't like it was some, you know, outrageous outlay. So you can take a chance on a 40 buck pen.

Ana Reinert: I wanted to thank Retro51 for sending you that as part of it as well. Yeah, that was really cool. Because that's awesome.

Myke Hurley: They're the best to us. They treat us really well.

Ana Reinert: Well, I mean, I treat them very well too, I think.

Ana Reinert: Hashtag sponsorship. I just, just, I, there doesn't need to be any money. I just want to be the spokesperson.

Ana Reinert: Like, I feel like I say this and they think I'm joking. Or they just really don't want me to do it. But like, I'll, I'll do it. Like, I'll give them a quote. Be like, Myke Early, official spokesperson of Retro51. No money needs to change hands. All right. All right. I will do this. All right.

Brad Dowdy: Anyway. I'm waiting for your head to go on the little end cap. You know?

Guests

Ana Reinert: Should we take a break? We have some guests today. So we have Jim Rouse of Franklin Christophe and Lisa Van Es of Van Espanse. And we're going to bring up Jim after we take our first break. And today I want to thank Pen Chalet for their support of this show. Of course, of course, Pen Chalet would support the show because they're amazing. They sell authentic, amazing rollerballs, fountain pens, ballpoints, mechanical pencils, and so much more. They have all of your favorite brands. They have fast and reliable and awesome customer service. They're always doing great discounts and specials so you can get amazing prices. But Pen Chalet offer great prices and they guarantee their 100% satisfaction with every purchase. They want to make sure that what you're getting, you're going to love. If there's any problems, they will make it right. They sell internationally with very reasonable shipping rates. And they do free shipping on orders over $50 in the United States. As always, go to penchalet.com, P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T.com. And click the podcast link at the top of the website. And enter the password penaddict for this week's special offer. And to get yourself the code that you need to save 10% on anything at Pen Chalet. Brad, this week's special offer is 15% off the Opus 88 fountain pens, which we were talking about recently.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I just got one in finally. And I'm seriously impressed with those. Have you used those yet, Anna?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I have a Chloro, which I lost on Thursday night, but found Friday afternoon. Yeah. That's great. That's great.

Ana Reinert: This is the first time Pen Chalet had discounted these pens. And they wanted to do something special for the live show. So that's 15% off the Opus 88 fountain pens. And this is before you add the 10% coupon as well. So that's some amazing prices. Our thanks, as always, to Pen Chalet for their support of this show and Relay FM. All right. So, Jim, would you like to come and join us on stage? Give us a round of applause, everybody, for Jim Rouse and Franklin Crystal. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, Jim.

Myke Hurley: Sorry we interrupted your bingo. Yeah.

Jim Rouse: You got a bingo? I'm supposed to mention some things here.

Ana Reinert: Don't listen to these guys. I got $5 a square.

Ana Reinert: So, Jim, thank you so much. Oh, have we got a bingo? We got a bingo? Yeah. If that counts as you getting excited about a sponsor. I'm super excited. All right. We got a bingo. No, we got a bingo. Denise, congratulations. Everyone else, you can keep playing. Woo-hoo!

Myke Hurley: Should we do the prize now? No, we'll do the prize later on. We'll do the prize later on.

Ana Reinert: Y'all are going to like this prize. Congratulations, Denise. We got our bingo. Yay. Everyone, you can keep playing along. But if you win, keep it yourself.

Ana Reinert: That was actually the perfect time to do this, too, because it's not interrupted anything. Denise, thank you so much. It was a skill. So, Jim, thanks so much for joining us. My pleasure. It's a pleasure to have you. For people that are unfamiliar with you or unfamiliar with Franklin Kristoff, can you explain a little bit about you, what you do, and maybe a little bit about Franklin Kristoff? And then we're going to dive into some things in some more detail, just kind of like super high level.

Jim Rouse: I don't work for Franklin Kristoff. Okay. They work for me. I am the nib guy at Franklin Kristoff. So, my main job is to set all the nibs because we want the best nibs going out the door. So, basically what happens is where a lot of companies buy the nibs as complete units and then screw them in. We buy them as individual components. We put them together and we screw them in the pen and make sure they work okay. Now, of course, that doesn't include Myke's nibs, but I also make my own line of nibs for Franklin Kristoff called the SIGs. The SIG stands for Stub Italic Gradient. And those are designed to screw in like any other nibs, but kind of halfway between an italic and a stub.

Ana Reinert: Okay. So, how long have you been doing this? Like not even just for Franklin Kristoff, but like involved in nib work and in the pen industry?

Jim Rouse: Well, let's see. After the arc landed.

Ana Reinert: They needed two pens.

Jim Rouse: I was trying to figure that out because I thought you might ask that. I think it's been 25 years in total.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So, where did you get started? Like how did you get started in this whole pen business?

Jim Rouse: I got started running the Baltimore store and being Bert's partner in Bertram's Inkwell.

Myke Hurley: So, like the original Bertram's Inkwell. The original Bertram's Inkwell. Yeah. That's cool.

Jim Rouse: At least in that store.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah. So, that was like, I guess, 25 years. That was in the 90s. That was in the early 90s. What were you doing before? How did you get involved in fountain pens to begin with?

Shoe Business

Jim Rouse: Well, believe it or not, I worked for a shoe company. And it was called Hess Shoes. And I worked in, I was a district manager. So, I traveled around the Washington area going to these different stores. These were like real high-end fancy shoes, you know, with alligators and all this kind of stuff. Like big buck stuff back then. And I used to go into Bert's store all the time. And I really enjoyed looking at the pens and stuff. And I was kind of into ballpoints back then. There wasn't a stigma against ballpoints back then. So, I would go in and look at them and, you know, play around with them and stuff. And every now and then he'd give me something to try to fix and I'd play around with it. Well, there was this jewelry store upstairs called, I think it was Jay Codwell's. And they had just spent like a million dollars. And I mean, I think that's a reasonable estimate. That's what the manager told me. To redecorate the store. And then three months later, they went out of business. So, here's this store.

Ana Reinert: Maybe they spent a little bit too much money.

Jim Rouse: Well, this was a huge chain. This was a huge chain. And we're looking at the store, you know, because we knew they were going to sell off the fixtures. They've got a vault the size of a bedroom in there. They've got a complete phone system. They've got chandeliers. They had Honduras mahogany cabinets with brass trimmed, you know, bulletproof glass. The whole nine yards. Everything you'd want to open your own store. So, Bert and I decided that we would try to buy the interior of the store at auction. And sell this stuff to make some money, you know, because it's some halfway decent investment, right? So, the manager of the store, this is kind of funny, but the manager of the store, they fired. But then they call the guy up and say, hey, you want to come back for a day and sell off the contents of the store? And he's like, sure.

Ana Reinert: Seems like a great idea.

Jim Rouse: I'd be happy to. So, they tell him to place an ad in the paper. So, like in Wednesday's Washington Post or whatever, there's like this, I don't know, two-line ad, you know, that says, store fixtures for sale. So, you know, I go, his name is Myke. And I go, hey, Myke, you got any bids on that stuff yet? He goes, nope, not yet. I go, well, I'll give you $1,000. So, this goes on all day. You know, I call the guy up or he'd call me up and he'd tell me what the bids are and then I'd place another bid. So, we end up with this store. And we're up there, Bert and I walking around, you know, this is like, this is a great find. You know, all this stuff's ours now. So, then we realized, what are we going to do with it? We got to do something with this stuff. Well, the mall said they wanted the vault. I mean, this huge steel vault. They wanted the vault. Had to take the ceiling out to get it out of the place. So, they agreed that we could store the stuff there until we could move it. Now, the cases kind of fit together like a jigsaw puzzle. So, we realized that we could reconfigure them to any shape we wanted to reconfigure them to. So, I don't remember who suggested it. I think it was Bert. Said, well, you know, I got a lot of extra merchandise. And we could open a store in Baltimore. And we could have a pen store. Well, to be honest with you, I didn't know very much about pens at all. But that sounded like a great opportunity. Because I was tired of being in the shoe business because of that stupid Al Bundy.

Jim Rouse: So, I like that show, actually. Married with Children. So, we opened this store in Baltimore. And, I mean, this was like real Mickey Mouse stuff. I mean, I made paper templates of all the cases, which was an open end, which was a closed end. You know, and then we fit the paper templates together until they formed the horseshoe pattern we wanted here and the circle we wanted here and all that stuff. And that was a fairly successful store. We did well with it. But, fortunately, after, I don't know, five or six years, they told us we had to move because they were tearing the building down. So, we moved like one block up the street to the corner of Baltimore and Light Street. And that's where we stayed almost for 17 years until the store closed. Wow. And what year was that? It closed?

Myke Hurley: God, I don't remember.

Jim Rouse: Oh, yeah. Sometime in the 2000s.

Myke Hurley: So, how does that play into what you're doing now? Like, how did you go from that, you know, the store was open, successful, then, oh, well, it closed. And now you're with Franklin Kristoff and you're super famous.

Jim Rouse: I'm not super famous. We had reps that came in.

Myke Hurley: I've seen the lines, Jim.

Jim Rouse: I think you're pretty famous.

Ana Reinert: Well, thank you.

Jim Rouse: But we had reps that would come into the store, you know. And, of course, you know, once you get into the business, you kind of want to move up in the business. So, I was always asking them if they had any positions open or stuff like that. Well, after Bertram's closed, one of the reps contacted me and said, we've got a position with Hampton Haddon. And Hampton Haddon, at that time, did Schaefer and they did Waterford and some other lines. And they needed a guy for Schaefer. And what they wanted, they wanted a Schaefer salesman. That's really what I was told they wanted.

Ana Reinert: So, just so, at Bertram's, were you a salesman there? Was that what you did?

Jim Rouse: Yeah.

Ana Reinert: Yeah.

Jim Rouse: Yeah. Manager, salesman, you know. I mean, we had three or four people in the store. You know, when you're in that kind of environment, you do everything.

Ana Reinert: You clean the bathroom. You know, you do everything. Like, it's different to kind of what you do now where it's more hands-on. But then you were, like, running the store, selling the stuff. Right, running the store.

Jim Rouse: Luckily, it was a pretty much nine-to-five store and Saturday hours. You know, you didn't work Sunday. So, it wasn't too bad. Mm-hmm. So, I got the job with Hampton Haddon, working with them. And I started to, it kind of devolved or evolved, however you want to look at it. But they didn't, it turned out they didn't want me to go out on the road because they didn't want the expense. Okay. And this was a thing between the two partners. So, I went with, you know, like, taking care of the warehouse, making sure all the stuff got out of time. There were some huge orders that came through there. Because I guess it's no secret anymore. They used to do the Levenger True Writers, too. Mm-hmm. And there'd be hundreds of these things coming in that had to be QC'd and checked. You had to make sure they got done. You know, that there was quality control issues sometimes. You had to make sure those things got corrected and everything. Back up a step. When I was at Bertram's, I realized early on that if somebody brought a broken pen in that I was going to send back to the factory because that was one of the services we offered, I could try to fix it. And if I couldn't fix it, I sent it back to the factory. So, there was an, and if I did fix it, you know, I didn't charge the customer or anything, just give the customer the pen. So, kind of a win-win situation. So, I had a lot of experience at, like, learning how to take apart pelicans and Mont Blancs and how to straighten out nibs and stuff. But really no formal training. So, at Schaefer, there was a lot of printed material on how to do things. And I read through that stuff. I really ate it up. And I got pretty good at fixing the Schaefer's. Now, fixing pens in that kind of environment basically is a part replacement thing. But every now and then you run into somebody loves this nib. We don't have that nib, you know, from an older pen. So, you learn how to straighten it out. And I was pretty successful at it. Sometime toward the end of that run with, I think that was four or five years with Hampton Head. And I had known Scott, Scott Franklin, for 20 years at that time. He says, I want to expand. I need somebody else. Would you move to Raleigh? I said, no, I don't want to move to Raleigh. So, we went back and forth and we worked out this deal where I didn't have to, you know, spend all week in Raleigh, like four days. And I could go back home to see my grandkids and play. So, you know, he opened a new or he had an office. I went to work at that office and the rest is history. Kind of developed the nibs as we went along. You know, back then he was getting nibs from Myke. The people making our pens were in Texas, which was Dan Simons. He was making them out in Texas. And that evolved to an in-house. We moved to a new facility, bigger facility. We bought in-house machines. Dan came in and trained the staff. And, you know, now we're making pens in-house. And I'm doing the nibs in the back, the SIG. The SIG was just a freak accident. It really was. You know, I was making a nib for myself and I ground it wrong. So, then I tried to correct something and I ground that wrong. And then I started writing with it. And I said, hey, you know, this thing works pretty good.

Pen Testing

Myke Hurley: You try this terrible nib.

Jim Rouse: Well, I thought it was terrible because it wasn't what I was trying to do. And it just worked out.

Brad Dowdy: So, how long have you been with Franklin Kristoff now?

Jim Rouse: Almost five years. Almost five years. That's from the time he started to expand from one person up. And now we have like ten people.

Brad Dowdy: Wow.

Ana Reinert: So, especially at pen shows, because you can see the process, Franklin Kristoff has become like an institution. Because it's like the table is typically quite large. And as a customer, you'll come in. You'll take a look at the bodies that are available. You'll try out the nibs from all the testing. And then you'll kind of add an assembly line. You'll pick your pen. You'll pick your nib. And then it will go along. And it will come to you. Now, what is this process? What is the thinking behind this process? Like, why do you do it that way? Is this just at pen shows that this happens? Like, does every nib go through you? Like, what is the thinking behind this process? Why does Franklin Kristoff do that? And why is it so important?

Jim Rouse: When you order something from Franklin Kristoff, you pick out a body you like, or a nib, but mostly a body. You find the body you like. Then you pick from a long list of nibs, which are then, you know, put on that pen for you, you know, tested. Make sure they work okay.

Ana Reinert: Every single individual pen is tested, irrespective of whether it's here or online.

Jim Rouse: Like I mentioned before, that goes on the card. Like I mentioned before.

Jim Rouse: What? Every single pen. You already did it, so I get to do it too. Yeah, I know. Every single pen. Where should I start? We don't buy units. I said this before. We buy individual pieces. So we have to put them together anyway. So we have this process where we clean them. We check with a shim to make sure they're in the proper dimensions. We center them in the feed, make sure they're set properly in the feed. By having that hands-on with it and the microscope we use, we can see if they're centered. Everything is perfect. Put it in and then dry test it. If somebody requests, we're happy to wet test. And the reason we don't wet test everything is because sometimes people will call you up and say, you sent me a used pen. Yeah. You know, so. Which makes sense.

Ana Reinert: Like if every pen arrived with some black ink on it, you'd be like, hang on a second.

Jim Rouse: Yeah, I am delighted to wet test anything for you. It takes a little longer, but it's probably worth it, you know.

Ana Reinert: Yeah, because you know it's working at that point, right?

Jim Rouse: You can see it. If people give us notes like I'm a left-handed overwriter, I'm an on-the-line left-hander, or, you know, I write at a severe angle to the paper, not for them, but for me it's severe. You know, you tune that into the pen. Yep. And I forgot the other part of your question.

Ana Reinert: But it's like, so why, like, obviously this takes a lot of time.

Ana Reinert: Do you think that this time investment on your end is beneficial? Like, do you think that by spending this time, every pen being tuned and tested, saves time on the back end with, like, people sitting in the back that there's problems? Like, what is the reasons that Franklin Kristoff has decided that this is the process that you want to take? Because you could just not do it that way.

Jim Rouse: I think, and I can't speak for Scott, but from my point of view, I think it's because they're getting really a custom product.

Ana Reinert: Sure.

Jim Rouse: They're picking their body. They're picking their color. They're picking their nib. We're actually not just screwing a nib in it. We're really going over the nib. You know, we package it up and we send it out. And yes, we do that for everyone. I think that the process at the show is not different than the website. If you really think about it, you pick a body, you get all, but what is different is you can try all those nibs and see how you like it, you know, and they give you an idea of what you're going to get. And then you get to come over and sit with me and we try to figure out the best we can. You know, does this corner have to come off because it's too sharp when you do loop-de-loops or, you know, straight lines? You know, I had a lady today that was doing circles and now, come on, circles aren't a normal part of writing, but she was bothered by a little roughness with a circle. So we fixed it. We found a way to fix it. And I think the customer is much better served in the end run. That's what it's all about a lot of times is you want to take care of your customers. You want to make them happy. And that's what we really try to do. That's a real driving force at Franklin Kristoff. What will make the customer happy?

Ana Reinert: And I will say, like, from coming to pen shows a bunch and seeing people who own Franklin Kristoff pens, typically they don't own just one. And it feels like that there is a real loyalty built around the brand. And this is probably part of the reason for that, right?

Jim Rouse: I think so. I think people like the different color prototypes. I think a lot of people really like the regular colors, too. And I, you know, people love nibs. I had a lady yesterday that was looking for a nib. And I couldn't find the exact right nib for her. I just wasn't sure which way to go with it. I had to think about it a little bit. And she asked me, well, who could I go with? And I know a lot of these pen companies. You know, you're around 25 years. You're going to learn something. Not much, but you're going to learn something, right? So I've thought about it. You know, I'm not knocking anybody at all. I just could not think of anybody to refer to. I try, you know, pilots and sailors and platinums and all these different pens, Mont Blancs and Viscani. I own them all. And, you know, I have never, I can't think of a time that I've actually bought a pen that I was just 100% satisfied with the nib right away, that I didn't have to tinker around with it a little bit. You know, and I think people tell me they like our nibs and I believe what they're saying. I mean, you guys like our nibs?

Brad Dowdy: Yes.

Jim Rouse: So, you know, I think that's what it's all about. Mm-hmm.

Nib Options

Ana Reinert: So you, Franklin Christoph offers a lot of nibs, right? Like, there are a lot of options.

Jim Rouse: I don't even know how many it is anymore. We got nibs that we don't even offer that we have.

Ana Reinert: Aside from, obviously, the amazing one that you created, what are some of your favorites?

Jim Rouse: Well, let's see. Obviously...

Ana Reinert: I like the Zoom a lot. The music nib, sorry. I like the music nib a lot, a lot. That's my favorite.

Jim Rouse: Well, the music nib is super cool. Yeah, I love that. And it has a lot of things you can do with it. You can write sideways with it and get a thinner line. Of course, you can get the, you know, the thicker, more signed nib with it. 1.1 cursive calligraphy has been a real popular nib lately. And it is a beautiful writing pen. I guess I like Myke's fine italic a lot.

Ana Reinert: That's Myke Masayama, right?

Jim Rouse: Myke Masayama, excuse me. Yeah, I like his fine italic a lot. I kind of like finer nibs myself. At one point, I bought nothing but broads. And I went to write a letter, and I realized I didn't have anything to write the letter with. They were all broads. So, you know, it kind of made me think about it. Now, I guess I'm just into fine italics, fine cigs, extra fines, things like that. They seem to work the best when you're actually writing something.

Ana Reinert: Yeah.

Jim Rouse: That's pretty, I don't know. We play around with an architect's nib. We don't call it that. You know, we haven't really named it. We kind of wanted to call it the Scriblarian, but then we decided maybe the Sandpiper. So we're, I don't think Scott's sold on either of those names. Yeah, Scott's a smart man. Yeah, you should have heard my original name for the cig. But, and he came up with a, Scott came up with a cig thing, you know, and I thought that was pretty clever, the stub italic gradient, you know. I think I wanted to call it a cig lit or something like that, you know. But, what can I say?

Ana Reinert: Well, Jim, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you. I had no idea about your history, and it was fascinating to hear. Like, really, really amazing history. So I guess people should go to Franklin Christophe tables at pen shows. Go find Franklin Christophe online, right? Because then they know your hand's going to be on their pens. They're going to love it. You're going to touch up their nibs, make them perfect. It's the only way to go.

Jim Rouse: Make them the best I can.

Ana Reinert: Thank you so much, Jim. Thank you. A round of applause. Very much.

Ana Reinert: All right. I want to take our second sponsor break for the show and thank Harry's for their support of this show. Harry's is all about a great shave at a fair price, which is why over 3 million people have made the switch to Harry's, and it's why you should join them as well. Harry's founders decided to create this company because they were fed up with overpriced razors, and they wanted to fix it. They knew that a great shave comes down to great blades, made with sharp, durable steel that lasts, and they also cut out the unnecessary costs, allowing them to deliver you the perfect razor at an amazing price. Their high-quality blades are half the price that you'll be paying elsewhere, just $2 a blade. They bought a factory of their own that's been making high-quality products for over 95 years, so they know they're good, and because they know this, they offer a 100% quality guarantee. If you don't love your shave, let Harry's know within 30 days, and they'll give you a full refund. Now, Brad, I know that, I know because we're sharing a room that you love Harry's stuff. We have the best bathroom set up in the hotel, don't we?

Myke Hurley: We do. There's Harry's stuff just everywhere. It's not a joke. You can't trip over it in there. Yeah, so, you know, I bring the dop kit, bring the handle, bring the fresh blade, bring the shave gel, bring the aftershave, so, yeah, we have it going on. And he smells good.

Ana Reinert: I'm sitting right next to him. I don't know why. It's really warm in here.

Myke Hurley: I'm not so sure that's accurate.

Ana Reinert: No, I don't know. If it is, Harry's has taken care of me. Harry's stands behind the quality of their blades. They know that switching razors isn't an easy decision, so they created a trial offer. You can get a $13 value set, which comes with everything that you need for a close, comfortable shave. It includes a weighted, ergonomic razor handle, five precision-engineered blades of a lubricating strip and trimmer blade, rich lathering shave gel, and a travel blade cover. Go to harrys.com slash penaddict right now to redeem your trial offer, and let them know that we sent you. Our thanks to Harry's for their support of this show and RelayFM. All right, so let's welcome Lisa Vaness of Vaness Pans to the Pan Addict Podcast.

Ana Reinert: Lisa, thank you so much for joining us. We're so excited about this. So, I found out before the show today that Vaness Pans is getting ready to celebrate a pretty important anniversary, right? Yep. What is that?

Lisa Vaness: 80 years.

Ana Reinert: 80 years. 80 years. 80 years. So, obviously, that's how long the store has been around. I think the website has been around for 95 years, right? Is that correct?

Brad Dowdy: You invented the internet, right? Yeah.

Ana Reinert: So, I wanted to get into your history a little bit with this. So, when and how and where did you get, and why did you get involved with, not just Vaness, but pens in general? Which came first? Was it Vaness Pans, or did you have a love of pens, which got us back longer? Like, for you, how does that story tell out?

Lisa Vaness: I had a love of pens, but it was pharmaceutical pens. Okay. So, my old job, I was a geriatric social worker, and we used to fight over the best pens. So, I had a pen collection that was sometimes inappropriate pens.

Lisa Vaness: But, so that was my beginning, was pens. And I was really picky about my pens, and I'm left-handed. So,

Ana Reinert: Like all best people.

Pen Store

Lisa Vaness: Yeah. Oh, oh, that's right. I am super outnumbered. He is so outnumbered. Way outnumbered. The odds are probably one out.

Lisa Vaness: I didn't even think about that. It's just like a bonus. So, and I know that's on the bingo card.

Lisa Vaness: So, anyway, I was super particular about my pens, but I met Myke, and I, locally, they were well-known, because it was the pen store. Church. And, so, I didn't know he owned a pen store, but all my friends did. So, apparently, that's why he liked me. I'm like the only person who didn't know he was a pen store. And so, he just had me come try pens one day, and I played with him, and I found some that I liked. I have adored retros from the first time I tried them. Like, I'm a huge retro fan, too. Like, that's, that's just the best. Like,

Ana Reinert: all people with good taste, right?

Lisa Vaness: Was that the first pen that you really liked, that he showed you? Yeah, that's probably the first pen I got. Well, actually, in high school, I graduated in the 80s. Every human that graduated high school got a cross pen. Like, that's what you got. You got the cross pen. Oh, that's the same,

Ana Reinert: like, in England as well. Like, it's just somehow, I got my pink cross pen. It's always crossed, like, every single time.

Lisa Vaness: I beg people every year not to buy cross pen. Please, no.

Ana Reinert: I think that we, we get these questions around graduation time, right? Yeah, always. What pen? Retros and Swifts, man.

Lisa Vaness: If they don't want to do fountain pens, retros. Anyway, so, um, um, when you marry into the family and your mother-in-law retires, you marry into the pen store, or so I was told.

Myke Hurley: Wow. Were you, like, jumped in? That sounds serious.

Lisa Vaness: I was like, uh, well, I mean, she was there in the beginning, but eventually. I had, um, a job where I worked Monday through Thursday. My mother-in-law retired, and on Fridays, the girls that worked at the store, um, would try to get me to reason with the men to get new products. So, um, because they were just getting the same products over and over, and they were super boring. So the girls would always have a list for me, and I'd go in, reason with the guys, you know, they had no choice but to say yes to me. So, um, so anyway, then we started expanding, and then I just, um, um, How long ago did you start in the, into the store? Uh, well, I was going in on Fridays, like, and redecorating, because they decorated terribly. But, I mean, like, how many years? Seven or eight years, probably. Oh, no, probably eight or nine years, maybe even ten. Um, but I didn't go full-time into it until we moved to the location we're in now, which has been six or seven years. Um, I actually negotiated the contract, and my husband said, well, you're full-time now.

Ana Reinert: You should have checked the contract. We've written you in.

Lisa Vaness: Like, I was hard to negotiate with, so my husband and my father-in-law both thought that a female would do better, and they're like, you have psychiatric training, you go. So, so, we got six months of free rent out of it, so I had to go.

Ana Reinert: Yeah, really cool. Nice. Can you negotiate my contract?

Lisa Vaness: I walked away from a van that my husband really wanted because I was like, mm-mm, I'm hardcore, but I'm gonna negotiate.

Myke Hurley: Anna and I have worked for her. She's serious business. You do not cross. She got scared one day. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I saw her in, was it LA? Yeah,

Lisa Vaness: but that's because I was hangry.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, but we saw her, we saw her negotiating with somebody about something, and Casey and I walked away. We're like,

Myke Hurley: she's scary.

Lisa Vaness: Somebody needed to give me a Snickers, and he, he didn't do it.

Myke Hurley: She didn't do it. I was scared. Like, I may be twice your size, but I am not gonna cross you ever.

Brad Dowdy: Do not cross her.

Lisa Vaness: I now feel bad for the people, but at the time.

Brad Dowdy: Here's the deal. Give her what she asks for, and then give her a Snickers.

Lisa Vaness: Anyway, so, it just, I don't know how and when it evolved, except that, thankfully, the employees that worked there were amazing. There were some employees that had been there up to 20 years, and there had just been a gap in female leadership, and so, I just started filling that gap, and then my job ended, and I had a job opportunity where I would have been on call 24 hours a day, and my husband and my daughter were like, no, no, and so they, so I went full time.

Brad Dowdy: And so now you work 24 hours a day. Now I work 24 hours a day.

Lisa Vaness: 24-7. Yeah. I'm communicating in the middle of the night with Australia and South Korea, and yeah, and China.

Online Business

Ana Reinert: You mentioned the store. Yes. I know that the physical store, the physical location, has been an important part of Vaness's history, and I think over the time that I've been familiar with Vaness, it seems like you are getting more and more involved in online as well. That is becoming a more important part of the business, and I kind of wonder, as we sit here now in 2018, like, what is that breakdown like? Like, is the store as important as it ever was to you, the physical store? How has having a stronger online presence changed the way that the business is thought about and managed?

Lisa Vaness: So a couple of things. The physical store is mentally and emotionally important to us, and I can't imagine ever giving it up because there's a certain, there's a certain special something to, just like that's why you guys love the pen shows. You touch that pen, you feel that pen, you get to look at it, you get to find out, okay, oh, we can tune it. You don't get that online, so online is super important because there's only, like, I think there's less than 20 pen stores in the U.S., like real pen stores, and so not everybody gets that opportunity, but it's so important that we survive. But the only way we're going to survive is online. Like, so there's a, it's a catch-22. We have to have that online aspect in today's world, but we, like, I can't imagine not being able to let everybody play with pens or smell the stinkiest ink or, um, we had an open house and everybody smelled the stinkiest ink.

Ana Reinert: Were you hesitant with the online business? Like, was it something that you were resistive of or did you think it would take away from the specialness? I wasn't, but my father-in-law, yes. Yeah, okay.

Lisa Vaness: He kind of knows. My father-in-law used to not believe in it, but now they tell, tell everybody, let Lisa do what she wants.

Ana Reinert: Well, because I'm sure, I'm sure that it's worked out, right? Like, you know.

Lisa Vaness: Um, they were not, but like my, I mean, you have to remember the generation that they're in. You, this is personal. Um, even like when Jim watches you write and Mark, he'll want you to write. It's such a personal thing to them and especially something in their 70s, 80s, 90s. This was your most important instrument in your life and you have to touch, it's so personal to you. He couldn't imagine the idea of buying one without somebody actually trying it out. Like, this is your personal item and it's, you know, when you see these people's names on them when they, you buy a vintage pen, like, that was something special to them and that was their, like, that's how they communicated in every way with everyone. And, you know, um,

Ana Reinert: it's understandable though, right? Like, yeah.

Lisa Vaness: And so they couldn't fathom the idea of somebody choosing a pen without actually touching it and knowing lefty overrider, underrider, side, right? You know, those kind of things. They, it's, it's too personal to them.

Ana Reinert: It is kind of wild. Like, when you think of it in that way, it is wild that pens are sold online. Like,

Lisa Vaness: right.

Ana Reinert: When you think of it that way, it, it's crazy that it exists in that way but I think it is why at the same time shows like this one seem to get more popular all the time. Right? Because I think that, you know, and you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, like the stuff that, that I assume that you sell the most of would be inks and I would expect maybe pens that are on the cheaper side online more, I guess until people know what they want, right? And then when people are more understanding of the things I like and don't like, the brands they don't like and don't like, then they're maybe more willing to spend higher amounts but I would expect that most people are buying the inks and the lower value pens until they get that experience in them, right?

Lisa Vaness: It's hard for me to know, like on that side. We sell high-end pens in that there's some high, like we sell a lot of high-end pens in that we're the only ones that carry some of those and we were their repair location for Conway Stewart's which most people didn't know because they didn't have Conway Stewart's but we were the repair center for them for years. My husband did that and so we had, we have the high-end customer but we also have the low-end customer as well so it's, there's like almost a disconnect, like you can tell that entry level versus the experienced and my experienced customers tend to call and not want to do online, like they will,

Ana Reinert: yeah. Is that because of their,

Lisa Vaness: don't call every day all day?

Ana Reinert: Is that just because they were part of this before the website was such a thing? I don't know,

Lisa Vaness: like some of these are strangers or people that I don't know, you know, but they just are not comfortable buying online and so we still do it.

Ana Reinert: They at least want to speak to a person who can't touch it.

Lisa Vaness: Yes. And I also feel on the, I was talking to another retailer about this, I think that the, in general, not just the pen community, I don't think brick and mortars or retails have done an effective job of communicating our value, like being able to walk into a store and touch things and feel things. I think that there's a, like, maybe they'll make a comeback, I don't know, but I just think there needs to be, we need to do a better job of communicating our value, the value of coming in in person and that personal touch because you're going to have more exchanges no matter whether it's clothes, shoes, you know, unless you do something like what he does, you know, where it's custom tuned because so many people don't want to touch the pens. But anyway, I think there's the beginner side and then there's the advanced side, like, so we do both and we don't really do the middle.

Ink Colors

Lisa Vaness: So, inks we sell. I mean, I counted, so we have 1563 colors.

Lisa Vaness: So everybody knows now.

Ana Reinert: I like that you say I count.

Lisa Vaness: How do you count that? So I had to break it by brand because, so I thought we had like 380 to get tremendous and I was off by 100-ish.

Ana Reinert: So, eventually you have to count that, I think.

Lisa Vaness: So what happens is like he would, he, my husband, when I, when I said, you know, let's expand the inks, he, I didn't realize he was really gonna, like every time Dieter Men's just comes out with a new ink, he's on it and they just, you know, they came out with like 25 new shimmers or whatever, I don't know. It was like, we don't even have room for them and they've been in the store, they know, like it's, we, I don't, I don't even know. I don't know what to say but every time there's a new ink that comes out, everybody expects us to have it. Yeah,

Ana Reinert: because that's kind of, that's our thing. That's one of those like spiraling things because you have been that way so now you have to be that way and then you end up with thousands. I didn't order

Lisa Vaness: a stir like for two months and I was getting email, I get emails every day, when is it coming in, when is it coming in and so I'm like, okay, I just didn't have time.

Lisa Vaness: I just don't have time. So, and they, you know, they come out with a lot of ink so it's just, some of it's just a time factor but now everybody expects us to have all the inks and I get emails and calls and when are you going to get this and can you pursue this because now we have a reputation for going after inks that are harder to find.

Ana Reinert: because I would say like, and it's a lot of work

Lisa Vaness: by the way.

Ana Reinert: You know, I'm, if I'm going to order ink, it can be difficult to have it shipped internationally.

Lisa Vaness: Right.

Ana Reinert: But if I want an ink, I go to your website first because I know it's going to be there.

Lisa Vaness: Right.

Ana Reinert: All right, so it's like, I'll just go to Van Aze first and it's going to be there. Like, I mean, because if it's not there, I can't imagine it being anywhere else. It is a shock if it's not

Lisa Vaness: and I'm going to get 25 emails.

Ana Reinert: Yeah, because it's like, I'm just going to expect it. By the way,

Lisa Vaness: I've sold out a Motorola thanks to you and then now I get, now I'm here, I've probably gotten 25 emails. Thank you, Brad. No problem.

Ana Reinert: My pleasure. The ink and being known for ink, especially when you're looking at pen shows, I'm sure brings its own level of complexity. Yes, it does.

Ana Reinert: I mean, I've spoken to enough vendors now and there's like questions like how do you get here? Like, how do you travel? And, you know, someone like Brad would be like, oh, maybe I'll take some stuff on a plane and blah, blah, blah. But I'm assuming that the only way you can get to pen shows is to drive, right?

Lisa Vaness: Right. Have you seen my license plate?

Ana Reinert: No.

Lisa Vaness: It says ink van.

Ana Reinert: Yeah, it does. That's awesome. It's parked. I'm going to go find it. So, that is a, I'm sure, monumental effort to move that ink and then to always be driving, especially when, you know, like listeners to the show know, there is a season and there is sometimes a pen show every week or two weeks and you seem to be all of them. So, one, why?

Ana Reinert: But like, seriously, like why do you, why do you go to as many pen shows as you do? Do you feel that there is a real, like tangible benefit to one, going to as many as you do and then also bringing the amount of ink stock that you do?

Lisa Vaness: Well, I think half the audience can tell you I didn't bring enough. So, no matter what, I bring enough. But, so I have fun. I enjoy the pen shows and I've made these amazing friends like Anna and Brad and even Jim. like, there's so many more.

Lisa Vaness: Like, they become my friends. I was there when he hurt his ribs.

Lisa Vaness: Like, we, we hang out, we just enjoy ourselves and we just have a great time and so I enjoy, one, I want to make sure everybody's educated and I want to make sure everybody feels welcome because, you know, some of us have been misfits and when I first came to shows, I was a misfit. I didn't quite fit in. Believe it or not, I don't fit in with the traditional pen collector crowd and so. Where's your fishing vest? I know. I actually got one, you know. It doesn't fit. It's too big. Anyway, so, I, I think that for me it became something I really enjoyed and I learned more than I could ever have imagined. Like, I learned so much at each show. I learned how to use my phone correctly. You know, those kind of things. We learned how to

Myke Hurley: find her phone.

Brad Dowdy: I tried to buy her a tile.

Lisa Vaness: So, yeah, so, yes, so, I think that it's really important for me that everybody get educated and so I felt like, let's, my husband and I felt like, let's take the pen store to them and so that's kind of how this went is the pen store is more than just a bunch of vintage fountain pens which is what it kind of was initially. So, we, you know, now there's several of us that do this but, that are more modern but I think we just, it was really important that everybody get the full experience just like you got to come and see us because not everybody comes to Little Rock, Arkansas. I mean, I wish they did but, you know, but anyway, so we just wanted everybody to have that full experience and I want to make sure you walk away knowing how to use that pen, happy with your pen and I want you to have the ink that matches that pen so perfectly that you tell all your friends that we know our color. Anna knows color.

Lisa Vaness: So, you know, that's, that's how it started and hauling it is a nightmare and,

Ana Reinert: but worth it?

Ink Incident

Lisa Vaness: I think it is most times. There's, there's, like when the ink fell in Little Rock of all places we had our first ink-sident. R.I.P. Nike's. No, no, it was, it fell on Brad. It fell on Brad. Did it?

Ana Reinert: Yeah. He doesn't tell me these stories,

Myke Hurley: tell me the story.

Lisa Vaness: It was, it ended up on his shoes. I mean, it was, yeah.

Myke Hurley: And you know what I think about my shoes? I think very highly of my shoes.

Lisa Vaness: I think it stained, you said your sock and your foot?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I had, I had pink toes for at least three days so which,

Lisa Vaness: Anna and I were cleaning it up. It was, so, not his feet. It was one of those shelving units. We were trying to pack it all in the van already loaded and we weren't. Myke, my husband Myke and Brad were. But we did not

Brad Dowdy: wash Brad's feet. It was not. No. We didn't want to see him.

Lisa Vaness: No,

Myke Hurley: we didn't want to see his feet. Don't trust me. We believe you. We just said it's pink. Deatromentious fuchsia is very nice ink.

Myke Hurley: But yeah, we lost a couple of shelves and surprisingly not many bottles except the one that landed on my foot and exploded everywhere.

Lisa Vaness: It was probably like 20 or so bottles. I mean, it was a miracle some of them survived because it was califolio and deatromentious. So it was glass.

Brad Dowdy: It was really just that like one or two bottles broke but everything else just got covered in the fuchsia. So they were just stained on the outside. And when it rained it looked like blood coming down the back of our...

Lisa Vaness: it was... The parking lot looked really brutal.

Myke Hurley: I got a picture of the murder scene that was pretty gruesome.

Lisa Vaness: It was bad.

Myke Hurley: It was bad.

Lisa Vaness: So anyway...

Myke Hurley: It's worth it though in the end. Like it's... You know, moving that ink around is not a pleasurable experience but we've got it down to a science I think.

Lisa Vaness: I think we... The newest method we have a business went out and I went and bought all their fixtures and it was actually... I feel like I'm boring everybody. No, no, no. It was... What are... Tester... You know, the tester paints the little tester paints. So those fixtures y'all see now that are like six high that have the wires I can travel with those already done. And I went and bought all they had. And so that's working better because I can travel with the ink already put together as long as I have a little bit of muscle. And so I can... Like Brad won't be in Chicago so hey guys free bottle of ink for anybody that will come and help us unload.

Ana Reinert: 700 people who can hear them descending upon you in Chicago. I'm here for my free ink. I'll do whatever you need.

Brad Dowdy: We're not talking color verse here people.

Lisa Vaness: So anyway the... Yeah. So yeah we'll need a little motor muscle but I think we have it figured out for the most part. The biggest thing is that even though I kind of am organized it's an organized chaos I think maybe on a stereotype. That's accurate.

Ana Reinert: I have one last thing I wanted to ask you. When we were... When you were talking about your history at the beginning there was a lot of like references to the fact that like it was a man's world when you started. And I want to know if you think that's changed.

Women Attendees

Lisa Vaness: I think it's changed. Was it last night or today I was talking about it that... That... I bet it was 40% women this time. Like... It is so awesome. It's so amazing. I just... It's so exciting to see the changing dynamic. Not just females but age group wise and... Just everything. You know... It's... It brings more energy when you have a variety of people like... I love all my little Black Pen Society man friends but they are for the most part retired and...

Lisa Vaness: There's a very specific perspective. They have a very distinct thought process and I love having the variety and hearing from it. That's why I feel like I learn more at shows than I could ever teach because I love getting the input and learning from other people about their interest and how they handle technology and breathing new life

Brad Dowdy: and perspective into the community coming from different... I don't know.

Lisa Vaness: It's just... It's just so valuable. I... You know... And I second guess myself every second of every day and so... Going to a show you know reminds me okay this is... This is good. This is good.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Before we let her go I just wanted to follow up on the store and people coming to the store and what type of things you offer and testing the inks and testing the pens. Another thing you do is engraving and I've taken advantage of your services before and you actually brought an example of your engraving. Can we show it real quick? Yeah.

Ana Reinert: So I'll do a dramatic description I guess of this for the people listening.

Myke Hurley: So you've seen these... We've all had stuff engraved and like there's these cool retro 51s. Check that one out. Check out the engraving.

Ana Reinert: Something's happening.

Lisa Vaness: So this is a little something

Myke Hurley: that Lisa... Go ahead Markoff.

Lisa Vaness: He cried. Go ahead.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Lisa cooked something up and as Myke mentioned earlier, he's getting married this year.

Myke Hurley: So we... You know, I got... Lisa kept asking me what are Myke's wedding colors? How many times did you ask me? Like six... Like over like a month I didn't answer. So she's like, you know, what can I do for... I want to do this thing for Myke.

Lisa Vaness: Send me the damn invitation.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: It's not on my card. It's not on my card. Oh crap. Yeah. I was super bad about sending that. So she's like, what are the colors? So we sorted it out and I got her the picture of the invitation and what she did to this pin. I thought, you know, I was hoping Myke would like it and when I saw it I was kind of blown away. So I... This is all Lisa's idea. So it has...

Ana Reinert: How do you know Myke and the date of all winning on it?

Myke Hurley: It's her wedding invitation. And the wedding invitation like logo engraved on the pin. So y'all can come check this out after the show. We'll put it in the show notes for y'all to see. So she was... Well, we can't though.

Ana Reinert: It's got the date on it. Ah, yeah. So we'll do that later. We'll have to share it later. So please understand that it's beautiful.

Brad Dowdy: She kept yelling at me asking what your colors were. And I'm like, I'm not entirely sure that Myke would even know. That's not something guys know.

Myke Hurley: Do you remember me asking you about the colors of the... I don't know if that rings a bell. You can go back through our Slack messages.

Brad Dowdy: But yeah, she kept yelling at me and I'm like, I'm not entirely sure guys actually know this information. Like, I don't know.

Ana Reinert: Thank you so much.

Lisa Vaness: You're welcome. That's so kind of you.

Ana Reinert: Thank you so much. Lisa Vaness, thank you so much for joining us. Sure.

Lisa Vaness: Thank you. Thank you.

Lisa Vaness: All right.

Ana Reinert: Thank you. Thank you to Lisa and Jim for joining us. Thank you so much, Anna, for always being here with us. Brad, for being so amazing, as always. Thanks to Stephen with UnGenius for the warm-up. We did a warm-up, which is a big change this year. I've never done that before. It's definitely warm. Because people... It's very warm. If you backed our Kickstarter campaign, thank you so much. Thank you very much. I can't believe that we've done this four years in a row. We're going to be going to Toronto in a few months' time, which we're really, really excited about. Again, thanks to our Kickstarter backers for doing that. Once more, thank you to Harry's and Penchelle for their support of this show. Thanks to our amazing live audience. We really appreciate them all coming out to see us. And until next time, we'll be back again. I can't talk now.

Myke Hurley: I'll help you. Goodbye, Brad. We'll be right back again. !