The Pen Addict 124/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	124
Title:	I Do Speak Fluent German
Release Date:	October 13th, 2014
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	Ryder Carroll
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 124
Audio File:	Audio Episode 124
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 124
Length:	5353 min <br />0.883 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: Hello and welcome back to episode number 124 of The Pen Addict podcast on RelayFM. This episode of The Pen Addict is brought to you by our friends at Squarespace, where a better web starts with your website, Pen Chalet, who has fantastic deals on fantastic pens, and Dash, who are a super cool website that lets you create real-time content. My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined, as I always am, by Mr. Brad Dowdy.

Brad Dowdy: How's it going, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Very well, sir. How are you?

Bullet Journal

Brad Dowdy: Good, good. I'm beyond excited about our special guest we have online today. Please welcome Mr. Ryder Carroll from The Bullet Journal. What everyone knows is The Bullet Journal. How's it going, Ryder?

Ryder Carroll: Hi, it's going well. Thanks for having me on.

Brad Dowdy: You know, that may not be, you know, what you're known for best in real life, but what us and our audience definitely knows you for The Bullet Journal. So we're excited to have you back on and talk about the Kickstarter project and everything you've got going on. So we appreciate you joining us. Absolutely. Glad to be here. So we've got a couple quick bits of follow-up real quick, and then we're going to get right into all things Bullet Journal. So Myke had some big news this week. Do you want to share that with us here, Myke? I know you've really covered this in other areas, but I just wanted to mention it to our audience as well.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I think we have audience members of this show that only listen to this show, which kind of makes sense to me, really. So in case you are interested, I quit my job, my full-time job, a few days ago last week. And the reason that this is important is because I am going to be focusing all of my time on developing Real AFM now. So I'm very, very excited. And it's been a fantastic week full of lots of well-wishing from people and stuff like that. And yeah, I'm super excited. And when Brad says covered it extensively, episode nine of Analog, which is just released very recently, is all about that. So that's what we talk about completely. I think that you may enjoy that show, even if you've never listened before. I think you should. I think it's going to be a nice jumping-off point. And there's a link in our show notes at relay.fm slash penaddict slash 124. It's to Analog episode nine. My shoes are a bit dusty. It's an episode that I'm really, really proud of. So if you have never listened to the show, I think you should start there. And I think that you'll get a lot out of it, even if you've never heard before.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So you're going to be a professional podcaster now, right?

Myke Hurley: Apparently.

Brad Dowdy: So, Ryder, my question to you is, when are you going to quit and become a professional bullet journal guy?

Ryder Carroll: Not for the foreseeable future.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And we'll cover that more because I'm definitely curious about that. So, yeah, I didn't want to put you on the spot there.

Myke Hurley: It sneaks up on you, you know.

Brad Dowdy: It does. You know. Things happen.

Myke Hurley: Well, okay then, Dowdy.

Myke Hurley: If you, you know, you're going to throw this question around to people, when are you going to quit and be a professional pen addict?

Brad Dowdy: I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. Hopefully 2015 is going to be a big year. So we'll see.

Myke Hurley: Oh, interesting.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, yeah. Turnabout is fair play. Thank you.

Brad Dowdy: All right. So, you did a good job trolling me last week about some new pens that you got, and apparently you have something else coming.

Custom Pens

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So, you may remember from a little while ago, a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned it a few times, that I was talking about a custom pen that I was having made. Yeah, yeah. It's arrived. Oh, nice. I haven't got it here in my hands yet, but it's in the UK. So, I will have it tomorrow to talk about next week. So, this is basically just a tease to say I have something hopefully very, very special to talk about next week.

Brad Dowdy: I kind of do remember this conversation a little bit from a while back. So, yeah, that'll be good.

Myke Hurley: Well, you know about it because the raw materials you also own. Yeah. But I have mentioned it on the show that we purchased these raw materials. Yes. I'll talk a little bit about the crazy process and what has brought me to own a one of a kind. And this is a new thing for me. This is a one of a kind custom made pen is what I will be having next week. So, I'm very, very excited to talk about it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I'm excited to hear about it because mine is just beginning the process.

Myke Hurley: So, just to go back a step to the fact that I'll be sort of working at home or working on my own stuff now. I'm not sure if I'll use my notebooks as much or at least pen and paper in general. I need to try and find new things to use them for.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I think you will.

Myke Hurley: The majority of my note taking is work-based notes.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I'd say mine is too. But I think you will definitely find a way and I think it'll be pretty well integrated into your new lifestyle and workspace.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I guess I'll have to just make it that way because I love this stuff so much. It'll just be building up. Maybe I won't need to buy as many field notes as I do because I probably won't use my color subscription ones enough that I then have to buy more.

Brad Dowdy: Well, that is true because you go through this pretty quick. I do.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, but I also buy more than I go through. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And you're probably going to need a dedicated bullet journal to manage your schedule.

Myke Hurley: Well, we'll talk about that actually.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, okay. Okay.

Myke Hurley: So, we do have a few sponsors today. So, I want to just start off before we start talking to Ryder. I want to thank our first sponsor for this week's episode. So, this is a new sponsor to Real AFM and it is Dash they are bringing this week's episode of The Pen Addict to you. So, let me tell you about Dash. Dash is a super cool website that lets you quickly, in real time, create custom dashboards. These dashboards allow you to get a fantastic visual overview of important data for your website, business or even your life. So, what Dash allows you to do is pull in data from a variety of different sources around the web. There are dozens of pre-built widgets for services like AppFigures, Google Analytics, GitHub, Twitter, Chartbeat, Pingdom. There's so many more. So, you know, you can think about if you have a website and you want to see statistics come in and maybe you have a social media account that you want to see statistics come in from that or you're an app developer or a web developer and you want to get that sort of stuff all in one place so you can kind of visualize it and see it in just one tab and one screen. This is what Dash can do for you. If you also want to get a bit geeky, you can create your own widgets to display your own data in Dash. They have an API that allows you to share data from Dropbox and you can create your own custom widgets too with tables and charts and stuff like that. I found it even just a really good way because obviously I have my own Twitter account and I have the Relay account. So, just to see things like Twitter mentions for those accounts and some saved searches that I have, like to see people maybe searching RelayFM links and stuff like that, I can see all of those in just one chart and then I can even have a little box which shows me the active visitors on the website via Google Analytics. Once you kind of dig in and start playing around, you can see some fantastic ways that you can use it. There's also a bunch of like, there's like an entire category, like an area where you can go to their website and you can click on their explore tab and you can see what the community is creating. So, basically all public dashboards that are created in Dash, you can see from them and you can integrate them into your own stuff. You can get some ideas from them. It's really cool. Their pricing model is a lot like GitHub, in case you haven't, if you may have seen that or not. But basically it means that everyone gets unlimited public dashboards. So, everybody can sign up for free and have unlimited public dashboards. This is how you share your live data with the community, which is what I just mentioned. But you can upgrade to their pro account for $10 per month and you get unlimited private dashboards too. So, these are just for you to see. So, if it has personal information maybe that you don't want others to see. But Dash is currently running an awesome limited time promotion for listeners of this show. If you sign up for an account right now at thedash.com, that's T-H-E-D-A-S-H.com, you'll also get one private dashboard in addition to your free account's unlimited public dashboards. So, because they're working with us at the moment, you can get that private dashboard as well. You don't need to give any credit card when you sign up and you'll keep that private dashboard forever. So, it's a great way to get in and take a look. And this is definitely something you'll be taking advantage of because it's free. There's absolutely nothing to lose. So, go sign up right now at thedash.com. Thank you so much to the Dash for supporting this show and RelayFM.

Brad Dowdy: Yes, I am all over this. I'm a dashboard information type person. I like kind of a home screen or a home page of just information and then bounce around from there. So, I will be signing up for this tonight without question.

Myke Hurley: It's good as a home page because you can pull in like RSS feeds and stuff. So, like another one is I have on my RelayFM page, I have the RelayFM master feed. So, I can see what's being published to the site. But you could have your own news feeds in there and you could have Twitter feeds and stuff. I like it. I had actually used them previously because I heard them sponsor another podcast that I listened to called ATP like quite a while ago. So, I'm really, really happy that they've come to sponsor these shows.

Pen Blog

Brad Dowdy: Cool. Cool. All right. So, we've got a pen blog of the week I want to mention. And I'm going to ask the chat room to not go to this blog now because you will be lost for hours. And there's only two posts up on it. And that's our friend Thomas Hall's new blog, Penucopia. Y'all know Thomas as my enabler, Myke's enabler. He actually played a role in Myke's pen that's coming next week. And he really pretty much knows everything. And he's a great guy, super nice guy. He's heavy into doing things with fountain pens that most normal people don't do. So, that's what his posts involve. The latest one is tricking out all of his Twisbies with different nibs. So, this is a must-read blog for all you guys and gals. And I appreciate Thomas putting all this information out there.

Brad Dowdy: I've gotten a lot of this information in the hundreds of emails that I've gotten from him over the years.

Brad Dowdy: And so, now it's nice to see all this information come out in blog form. So, it's pretty cool to see Thomas dipping his toes into the blogging world. So, I'm excited to see it.

Brad Dowdy: All right, Mr. Carroll, you ready for us?

Myke Hurley: Sure.

Brad Dowdy: Thank you. Thank you for being patient with us. So, what I would like to do, Ryder, real quick. We had you on back when the Bullet Journal website first launched last year. And we had you on Pen Addict Episode 70. And you did a great job explaining all about the Bullet Journal, how it all works. But just for our new listeners who may not have been listening at the time, who are maybe not familiar with the product right now and what the Bullet Journal actually does, can you give us just a little bit of that background on why you created it and what it tries to accomplish? Sure.

Ryder Carroll: Sure. The Bullet Journal is, I guess, the elevator pitch is that it's an analog life logging and productivity system. It can be used in any book, but it's very pen and paper based. And it consists of many different, very simple to use modular methods that are grouped together by a framework. It uses a lot of conventions that people are already used to, like page numbers and indexes, and just arranges them in a way that they can all work together. You can take in, you can use modules, you can take them out. But basically, the strength of the Bullet Journal is that it's modular and that people can modify it to suit their own needs.

Brad Dowdy: So, one of the things, I think that's probably the biggest difference from when we talked the first time, just talking about, you know, how to use the Bullet Journal, how to set it up. And for anyone playing at home, you can go to bulletjournal.com and find all this information. We'll have all this information at the show notes. What's the link for the show notes, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Relay.fm slash penaddict slash 124.

Brad Dowdy: All right. So, we'll have all this information in there. So, you can, I would advise you to look at the Bullet Journal site, at least maybe while you're listening to this, if you're not familiar with it, just to see how this system works. And can you just kind of lay out the, I don't know if you want to, is it, would you call it the modules, just even just the basic, like, calendar and the day planning? Can you just kind of lay out the very basic, basic framework of what it looks like when you're putting this down in a notebook?

Ryder Carroll: Sure. Sure. So, the first couple pages are your index. As you start filling up your bullet journal, you will be giving each one of your pages a page number and a title. Once you're done with that page, they'll take those page numbers and the titles and put them back into your index. So, theoretically, anything that has a title can be referred to at a later point. So, even if it's a drawing or a calendar or just a shopping list, all those things go into your index. And so, no matter where they are in your book, you can access them again quickly. A couple of the really popular modules and the ones that I introduce are the monthly log, which is essentially the left-hand page has all the days of the month on it. And then the right-hand side has a to-do list that consists of the things you want to get done that month and all the things that you hadn't got done the previous month. A big part of the bullet journal is migration. So, essentially, you create every month, every day, you create these to-do lists. And the things that you don't get done get carried forward into your next month. So, basically, there's a time where you have to reflect and judge whether or not each item is worth your time. If it's not, you cross it off. And if it is, it gets migrated forward.

Brad Dowdy: So, what I enjoyed about the bullet journal system, I used it for a couple months. And I've never been a system guy or a planner guy or any kind of rigid type system.

Brad Dowdy: And I'm not using anything currently right now. But the bullet journal, it was definitely one of the most clear, straightforward, simple, useful systems that I've run across bar none. I mean, if I was really into, you know, I've probably checked out every system despite not using any of them on a regular basis. None of them have stuck with me longer than the bullet journal has. Even though I'm not using it right now, that's pretty high praise for me. I think I actually got a good solid two months in there before I, you know, kind of lost track. But I really love the simplicity of this system. It can be as, you know, simple or as complex as you like it. But it's really built around being simple and straightforward to accomplish these things. So, I went back and listened to Pen Addict number 70 in preparation for this episode. And I mentioned during that show, we were talking about how the bullet journal is really good for any piece of paper, notebook, whatever. You can use it however you want it, whatever format you want it. And I, not this is an exact quote from the thing, but from the podcast. But I said, people use it in their own way, which is why there is no bullet journal journal, right? And your answer was, yep. So, at that time, and you had elaborated like on every answer in there. And then I said, but there's no bullet journal journal. And you just gave the yep, which I didn't think of at the time as anything odd. But now, knowing what I know about what has gone on, did you have a plan back then to make a bullet journal journal all the way back when you had this started?

Ryder Carroll: I mean, I had a lot of ideas. They just weren't ready to talk about, you know, I hadn't really solidified any of those things. As I had mentioned back then, the response to the bullet journal was very unexpected for me. So, I just, I'd rather work on something for a while before I introduce it or, you know, know what I'm talking about. Right.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And I thought that was, everyone, I think when they first saw the bullet journal system, they were like, this is just, this is perfect for, you know, a product, if you will. So, it's that simple and straightforward, but it would be totally useful in a product, a physical product that someone could just, you know, walk into the system kind of pre-built instead of, you know, just, you know, doing all the indexing and page numbering and things like that. So, we're definitely going to talk about that. We're going to talk about how this turned into a Kickstarter, how it turned into a physical product. And that's where I really want to dig in today, Ryder, is with Kickstarter. But first, let us take care of a little more business real quick. Myke, do you want to talk about our friends at Pen Chalet?

Pen Chalet

Myke Hurley: That's a great idea. Everybody who listens to the show knows the Pen Chalet. They sell authentic, amazing roller balls, fountain pens, ballpoints, mechanical pencils, and so much more. They have all of your favorite brands like Pelican, Lamy, Pilot, Namiki, Sailor, and Kaweco. They're an authorized dealer of all of them. They have fantastic discounts twice a month, including closeout specials every two weeks. They have a very fast and reliable service. They're always adding new styles of pens every single month. They've always got fantastic stuff going on. They do all these great accessories that you're going to want to use, like carrying cases, pen holders, refills, fountain pen converters, and so much more. The Pen Chalet have free shipping on orders over $50 in the continental United States, but they also sell internationally with very reasonable shipping rates too. Pen Chalet has low prices on high-quality pens and offers a 100% satisfaction guarantee. We love the Pen Chalet, and I think that you should too if you don't already. So go over to penchalet.com and use the code PENADDICT to save 10% on your order. What you should be doing, and I'm going to talk about the specials that you'll wait for as usual. So you want to go up to the top of the page over at penchalet.com, click the podcast link at the top of the website, enter the password PENADDICT, and you're going to get some special deals that you will not see anywhere else on penchalet.com as well as your 10%. So let me tell you about today's deal, and this is a big deal for long-time listeners of the show. I mean, we know that the guys over at Pen Chalet do a great job of getting this stuff to you, but we have something really special today. So we have a fantastic deal on the Pilot Vanishing Point. Now, the Pen Chalet have listed this at 25% off the regular price, and you'll get your additional 10% if you still use the code PENADDICT at checkout. So you can get your own at $118.13. There's a huge saving right there, down from $175 at retail after you use the coupon code as well as using the special PENADDICT code. When you hit that radio podcast button at the top, you'll be able to get your own for $118. So this is in both the gunmetal and black matte versions. The black matte is what I have, and I like it very much. The look at it is a beautiful piece, and I know that The Vanishing Point continues to be one of Brad's most favorite pens in the world. As well as this, Pen Chalet also have a few items that are not necessarily pens, but are good stuff for the pen person in your life. If not yourself, these are great gifts. They have some good stuff this time, but really, really good discounts. They have a couple of wallets, passport holders, and some interesting executive accessories that you should go and check out, especially with the holidays fast approaching, these could be good gifts for some of those pen nerds in your life. Now, there's one other thing. So we're always doing these great deals with Pen Chalet that are always giving us fantastic deals to give to you guys. But what Ron is always asking us, Ron at Pen Chalet, we spoke about a couple of weeks ago, our good friend Ron, he wants to know what pens you want to see discounted next because they want to make sure they're giving you what you want. So send a tweet to at Pen Chalet, that's P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T, and tell them what pen or brand you want to see discounted next for Pen Addict listeners. And then we're going to get to work on that and get you some of the deals that you definitely want to see, even more than the ones that they're already doing. So don't forget, you can get great deals on Pilot Vanishing Point. Go over to PenChalet.com. Don't forget, Pen Addict is the code that you're going to want. Thank you so much to Pen Chalet for their continued support of this show and RelayFM.

Brad Dowdy: That's awesome. Vanishing Point is one of my favorites. I have the gunmetal. It's easily one of my favorite pens I own. Ryder, are you a fountain pen guy at all?

Ryder Carroll: I don't use them regularly, but I use them for illustration and so forth. Okay. Awesome. Awesome.

Myke Hurley: That seems like an interesting use for a fountain pen. I wouldn't have necessarily assumed that. What type of stuff do you illustrate that a fountain pen is good for?

Ryder Carroll: I used to do a lot of calligraphy. Ah, right. Yeah, illustrative calligraphy. So that was always the go-to kind of tool.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, that makes sense. Before we talk about the Kickstarter, there was something that I wanted to ask you. Oh, Brad, sorry, you've moved it down now. But I'm going to ask you anyway. Because you mentioned a little bit earlier about response, the way that people have responded to the bullet journal system. And I was kind of interested in what are some of the most, up until maybe the point of the Kickstarter, maybe afterwards, what are some of the most interesting uses you've seen for the bullet journal system?

Ryder Carroll: Well, I guess I can't answer it that directly. What I can say is I've been really interested in seeing how people have personalized the bullet journal for their own lives. And they'll give me examples of how it's, you know, made a challenge a lot easier to cope with. But they don't go into details necessarily about how they deployed the bullet journal methods in order to do so. So a lot of people dealing with medical challenges or a lot of organizational challenges or scholastic challenges, like they applied it in realms where I had not necessarily foreseen it going. And sometimes they share the method and sometimes it's really personal and they don't. So that was unexpected.

Brad Dowdy: I think that's kind of a huge part of this Kickstarter as well. I mean, I think it's kind of a two-phase thing. So let's talk about the Kickstarter. Number one, there's a physical product. But number two, you're doing it to build and enable this community that's kind of blown up around the bullet journal. To where people can share their different ways of bullet journaling and, you know, get information from other people. And you want to make it easy for all these people to find it. So why don't you talk about the Kickstarter and number one, you know, how it became a physical product. And then number two, how it's going to help enable the entire community that's bullet journal fans.

Ryder Carroll: Sure. So like for the past year, since I launched the bullet journal, I've been doing a lot of listening and seeing what people have done with the system. And it's really been fascinating to me. But I also feel like I'm one of the only points where all of those different ideas intersect.

Ryder Carroll: There are many different communities. There are many different people. A lot of articles have been written about different variations of the bullet journal. But what I started to see is people asking questions, not necessarily in the right places, for example. Like I'm like, oh, that community over there has been answering that question or been dealing with that challenge. Because a lot of times it's not just checking off a box, but it's slowly developing towards a solution. And the thing that's nice about the bullet journal is that you can tailor these solutions even just a little bit to suit your needs. So the first idea is like, what is the next step of the bullet journal? Like what can I provide to this community that is really helpful? And from what I saw, my idea was just to create a place where people can really match questions to answers. And ideally have the system evolve and become significantly more effective than I could have ever made it on my own. So that was the original idea behind the Kickstarter, just to A, gauge if there was enough interest to see, you know, for something like that to exist, for a place, for a website like that to exist. And then to kind of sweeten the deal, there was a limited edition bullet journal journal, if you will, a bullet journal notebook, a very limited edition. And yeah, it sold out immediately. And I had designed the bullet journal specifically to be used with pretty much any kind of notebook in mind. But having used them for so many years myself, there were always like these small little qualms that I came across. I'm like, gosh, I wish this journal had this or that journal had that. I'm like, why don't we just make a book that has these things, at least for me? And it seems like I wasn't the only one who felt that way. So once I saw how much interest there was in the actual book itself, you know, which was the secondary component, the Kickstarter evolved into actually funding the first production run of a dedicated bullet journal notebook.

Brad Dowdy: So I want to hear you pronounce the name of the product that you use, because I say it all the time. And I actually, you know, we mentioned it as a as a possibility back in Pen Addict number 70. And I know what it is. And our listeners know what it is. But I heard you say it on Myke Vardy's podcast. And it was dreamy how you pronounce it. So I put all the pressure on you. So tell us tell us what tell us what brand you chose to build the bullet journal notebook.

Ryder Carroll: It's Leichturm 1917. Oh, bravo, sir. Bravo. It's a German company.

Myke Hurley: I mean, I feel like I need to put some real work into this now. Yeah. How good? Right in future.

Ryder Carroll: How good was that, Myke? In all fairness, though, I do speak fluent German. So it's a little bit more natural to me.

Brad Dowdy: That that makes a lot of sense, because, you know, I can, you know, I get as far as like a Leichturm and I can't really do much more than that. And then I was listening to you on talk with Myke Vardy and you just you just rip that out of nowhere. And I was like, wait a minute. Yeah. That's not fair. So good. So how did that partnership come about with Leichturm in building out this journal?

Ryder Carroll: Well, actually, I have to give a lot of credit to you guys. I'm always trying out different notebooks. And I had, you know, five different types on my desk. But once you had mentioned it, I went out and looked for them. And I saw they had page numbers and all these different little details, which are really what matter to me. And I started using them and I liked them a lot. And, yeah, I reached out to them to see, you know, if there was any interest in, you know, at least talking. And next thing you know, they like the idea of the Kickstarter. And that's kind of how where we are today. And then once, you know, we both saw the amazing amount of interest in the actual books, it just made sense. Yeah.

Kickstarter Campaign

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So you built out the Kickstarter and you're using this great notebook, which I think is a fantastic choice. I mean, I think it's just dead on perfect and it's such a good quality notebook, such a good brand. But, you know, once I saw the product, the Kickstarter launch, you know, I logged in immediately to the Kickstarter and backed it. And the thing I noticed at the time was it was almost like it was a fixed amount. Like I was looking at this and I was like, the way this is going, this is going to be sold out in like two days and there's no more physical products. And that's kind of how it was in the beginning. I don't know that that was necessarily the plan up front. So tell me, tell us a little bit about how, you know, the launch went, what the plan was, you know, what your expectations were, and then kind of how it changed like pretty quickly.

Ryder Carroll: Well, the expectation was I wanted to see if people wanted this website. That was really important to me. And that's kind of why I put the Kickstarter out there. I mean, this is what I do for a living. And like if I was going to spend a lot of time doing it, I wanted to make sure there was an audience for it, an audience that really was engaged. And that's what Kickstarter is perfect for. And I figure just to sweeten the deal, like why don't we do a limited run so they actually can hold something physical for their sponsorship, if you will. And then very quickly it became evident that the book was significantly more important than I had anticipated.

Myke Hurley: You can't rule out the pen and paper nerds. Like they'll get you, you know.

Ryder Carroll: Yeah. I mean, it was a pleasant surprise. But as soon as those books sold out, and that was like maybe 20 hours after the campaign launched, I mean, the email started flooding in and people were really, really disappointed. And that's really the last thing that I want to have, you know, happen. The whole idea with the bullet journal is that I'm trying to create an environment that provides tools that help people. And it seems that a lot of people felt that this could be that tool. I designed it to be as helpful as possible, and it made sense that like, why is it limited? You know, why is it limited? So I went back to the Lifetone people, and we discussed how we could do this. And so now there is the limited edition, which remains sold out. So that's a one-time deal. And then now this unlimited edition, if you will, which will come out later after the limited edition has been produced and shipped.

Brad Dowdy: Just from the physical goods perspective, what's the difference between the two editions?

Ryder Carroll: The quality is identical. So there was no, that's something that neither of us wanted to scale back on. So it will just be about the detail and the packaging. So essentially, the limited edition has the bullet journal logo embossed on the front cover in a silver foil. And it has three bookmarks, this book. So one of the three bookmarks will be silver. So it will be black, silver, and white.

Ryder Carroll: And then the unlimited edition has a blind embossed logo on the back. So it's much less branded, if you will. And we'll have a black, gray, and white bookmark. The limited edition also has a thank you message on the inside, which will not be there for the unlimited edition. And then the packaging is different.

Brad Dowdy: Gotcha. Now, is there a theory behind the three bookmarks that come in with it?

Ryder Carroll: Yes, there definitely is. One of the big things about that will happen as soon as the Kickstarter is over is that I will be releasing the revised instructions to the bullet journal, which add a couple little things, but mostly clarify things that I had introduced before. It's been a year of people asking me questions. And sometimes a lot of people ask me the same question. So I think there's an opportunity there to tell certain stories better or to make the instructions clearer. But one pattern that I notice a lot is that people usually have a bookmark in their month, in the day, and then in a project. It's something that I do a lot as well because I switch in my book a lot. Sometimes a project will be very long, and it will be at the beginning of the book, and I will be currently logging things much further into the book, and I don't want to keep going back to the index. So the three bookmarks just make your three priorities a lot more accessible at all times. The book will also feature an index that's built in, as well as a future log, those kind of things.

Myke Hurley: The three bookmarks, like the page markers, when I saw those in the grid, I was like, I know I want this book. Because I could just see, like, I know that there are always multiple things that I'm working on. So even just to have it labeling three different projects is just an idea that really works for me. So I've got, like, three different things going on. I've got different pages in the book. I'm accessing them enough that to have them marked out like that just makes sense to me. But I guess, as you say, like, one of the great things about this is the way that you can adapt this to work in your own style. So having that sort of, that tool there is just a real interesting flexibility piece that I quite like.

Ryder Carroll: Yeah, I'm glad that you point that out. That's exactly the point. I just know that one bookmark is always too little for me, no matter how I use the bullet journal and what role it's playing. Because, I mean, for me, the bullet journal plays many different roles at different times in my life. So it's really nice that I can just have that feature always there instead of digging around.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, it's just one of those little touches that you don't notice, you know, your first or fifth time through looking at it. But in practice and having that added into a system like this, it's like, that's perfect. It's like, it's exactly right. And I thought that was just one of those little things that was just so cool and makes this just a really, really good product. So thank you. I'm really glad to hear it.

Ryder Carroll: There's always ideas in my head, but once they're out there.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, I know, right? That's the truth. So I have a few more things I want to cover with you. But we have one more sponsor for today, Michael, if you would like to talk about our friends at Squarespace.

Myke Hurley: Exciting news today, guys. Let me first tell you everything you should already know about Squarespace. They are the all-in-one platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website, portfolio and online store. For a free trial and 10% off, visit squarespace.com and use the offer code INK at checkout. A better web starts with your website. Squarespace are the place to give you your own home on the internet. There's nowhere better than Squarespace for this. They put all the power that you need into your hands and take away the pain points like worrying about hosting, scaling or what to do if you get stuck with something. Squarespace's fantastic, clean, simple and beautiful designs really allow you to craft a home for yourself online. And it's about to get even better with Squarespace 7. Squarespace have applied everything they have learned from powering millions of sites on the web to upgrade their platform and make it even better than before. They have refined their system. They've made their platform even more awesome and easy to use. Squarespace 7 features more stunning templates that all feature responsive web design. They've even partnered with some cool musicians, artists, architects and chefs to develop new templates that cater to these professions. They've also have embraced something they're calling the cover page. This allows you to create single page websites. They're really cool for personal websites. If you have like a braddowdy.com which links out to all of Brad's different projects for example. There's an idea. You could have something like that. Brad, you should have something like that.

Brad Dowdy: It is in the works.

Myke Hurley: They're also really cool for announcement pages too. Maybe you've got a big birthday coming up or an engagement or something. A lot of people use Squarespace for this type of thing so that they're really embracing it now making it even easier and putting all of the power on Squarespace on one page. They've added some more really cool tools to their brand new redesigned site editor like something that I really like called Device View which allows you to very easily see your content and how it looks on all kinds of devices. You can kind of say I want to see how it looks on a phone, on a tablet. But I was playing around with my website MikeHurley.net. I think that's the name of my website. Who knows? Something like that. Yes. MikeHurley.net is actually now using one of the new Squarespace templates and I've played around with it a little bit and I'm super impressed. It's even easier to use than before and I didn't think that was possible because I loved using Squarespace and I've had any problems with it and they've made it even better. This is something that's really interesting. Brad, if you don't notice, I think you might find this quite cool. Squarespace have partnered with Getty Images now to provide you with awesome photography at just $10 an image. You can't get a deal like that anywhere else. This is just another thing that Squarespace have done to make their platform even more cool. As well as things like getting free domain names 24-7 support, the ability to add commerce to every single site. They have their logo tools. They have fantastic apps. Squarespace are the full package. Start a trial right now with no credit card required and you can start building your website today. Go straight to squarespace.com to sign up. When you do decide to sign up for an account with Squarespace, make sure that you use the offer code INK at checkout. That's going to get you 10% off your first purchase and show your support for The Pen Addict. Thank you so much to Squarespace for the support of this show and all of Reel AFM. That's where Squarespace, a better web, starts with your website.

Brad Dowdy: Awesome. I got opted into the beta this weekend for Squarespace 7 and it's going good so far. I'm very happy with it.

Myke Hurley: Indeedy. Yep.

Bullet Journal Video

Brad Dowdy: All right, Ryder, this is going to be the most important question you get asked in this entire podcast. So I noticed on the original bullet journal video, you use the Uniball Sino 207. But on the Kickstarter video, you use the Secura Pigger Micron. Why?

Ryder Carroll: People have been talking about it a lot in the community. So I'm like, I should try this out. You know, I would say I'm also a fan of pen and paper. And if a lot of people keep coming back to the same tools, I definitely want to try it out. Why not? It's a great pen. It is a great pen. Secondly, also, it has really good legibility at that distance. When I was filming, I went through a couple of pens. And if you can't see what I'm writing, then that's a problem. So it was easy to write with. And it had a good, it put ink well onto paper. I forget what the term is for that.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, that's good. It's good on camera. That's good to know. That's another feature of the Secura Pigger Micron. Myke will have to remember that.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: It's good on camera.

Myke Hurley: But is it good on audio podcasts? That's what I need to know. Yeah, it's good. Ryder, let me make a suggestion to you. If you like the Secura Pigger Micron, you should check out the Oto graphic liner. Okay. It's just a great pen. They're not massively similar, but they remind me of each other. And I'm not 100% sure why that is, but I love the way, like if you like the way that the Pigma Micron lays ink down, the graphic liner is incredible.

Ryder Carroll: Yes. Well, yeah. You guys have a history of giving me fantastic advice, so I'm going to pick you up on that.

Myke Hurley: So if we judge this right, in about six months' time, there'll be a bullet journal branded on the Oto graphic liner.

Ryder Carroll: Well, I mean, part of the reason also that I didn't mention that I approached Leichtum is because I really love their product. You know, it was like once I picked it up, I was like, yeah, this is a fantastic notebook.

Bullet Journal Notebooks

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, the quality and care they put into those notebooks is clear, like immediately from when you pick it up and open it up to the first page. It's a fantastic product. That's, yeah, I'm really excited about that part, if you couldn't tell. So I want to dig into this community piece just a little bit more. And just in case it wasn't clear to the listeners, Ryder's background, your background is in web design and development, right? I mean, that's your day job. So what was so impressive about the bullet journal, the original launch, when we all first became enamored with it, was the website you put together. And I remember just raving about how well the website was done and designed and that was all your work. And now that the bullet journal has grown and has this whole community around it, and we're going to put this link in the show notes, there's a whole Google Plus page where everyone is, there's like well over a thousand members, right, that are sharing in all their things, you know, how they're all their bullet journal modifications. What are your plans to integrate that community? If you can talk about that into the future website that's going to come out of this Kickstarter project?

Ryder Carroll: Well, the last thing I want to do is take away from communities that have already popped up around. What I would like to do is provide another option to people for people who may not find those other communities, that kind of thing. And hopefully the communities that are already going strong will want to engage with this other community as well. So for me, the thing that's most important is to provide another valuable tool that might be more easily accessible to those coming into the system for the first time. And for those who are more experienced, hopefully they'll be contributing their knowledge as much as they like. So my goal is to build that tool.

Brad Dowdy: So now, I haven't dug into the community aspect of this much, but are people creating their own, say like, add-ons or inserts or you were referring to modules as different, you know, things you can put on the page or people creating these physical tools? I know a product like the Chronodex, I'm not sure you're familiar with that, started out as a very, as one man's idea and it was very simple and straightforward and people grasp onto it. And I see a lot of similarities in the bullet journal in the community and how people just took that idea and ran with it and built on top of it. Are they, are people coming up with like, you know, all these different add-ons or inserts or different modifications? All the time.

Ryder Carroll: All the time. And that's, that's really where I see like the lifespan of the bullet journal increasing significantly because it keeps evolving with people's needs. You know, they, they, they come up with things that I never would because I don't live that person's life or I don't have that person's experience. They create the tool to match the challenge and people have very different individual kinds of challenges. And that's what I think is so exciting. And I hope that a lot of people can benefit from each other through a platform that allows people to very quickly find these solutions, if you will. But yeah, they're constantly coming up with some really, really clever stuff. That's so cool.

Brad Dowdy: I really liked that, that community aspect of, of how this is really just become so integrated in people's lives. That's, that's awesome. So now as we're sitting here, I'm staring at the Kickstarter page. There's 40 hours to go. We're recording this on a Monday evening, 40 hours to go. You're at $66,757. What, what, what, what does your brain think about the amount that this has reached in 2,386 backers? Tell, when you see those numbers, what, what pops into your head?

Ryder Carroll: I'm just really grateful. I mean, that, that's all I can say. It's, it's, I'm just really grateful. And if I had any doubts about whether or not people found this to be useful for them, they, they were obliterated, certainly within the first eight hours of this Kickstarter campaign. I'm just, I'm just really excited about what it can become and what people are making of it. And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm really committed to try and making the bullet journal the best it possibly can be. And it seems that there is just a really engaged and very clever community surrounding it. So I look forward to, um, you know, building better tools for them as well, seeing how they can grow the bullet journal because it's definitely way beyond just me now.

Myke Hurley: There must be like a great vindication feeling. Like you created this, this thing that was for you and you thought people might like it and you put it out there and then, you know, people take to it and you put it on, on a site like Kickstarter. I mean, I know me and Brad spoke about it a lot when, when he had his stuff up for, for not co it shows that people believe in what you're doing and like, and it means enough to them that they want to, to pay their hard earned money to support it and make it happen.

Ryder Carroll: Yeah. It's, it's almost a little bit surreal to me right now. Um, I'm just really excited and I'm spending all this time right now behind the scenes, trying to make sure that people will get their books as fast as possible. You know, it's very, it's very real now and I have to deliver and I'm, I'm spinning up for that right now.

Future Plans

Brad Dowdy: That's it. That was, you're leading perfectly to my next question. Two days from now, this project's over. What's, what happens next?

Ryder Carroll: Well, um, in terms of the original goal, which was to build the website, uh, I have a lot of questions. Um, there are a lot of different ways that you can use the bullet journal and, um, I want to start taking polls from the people who obviously are very committed so I can start building the right tools. Obviously the, the website won't be everything to everyone, but I want to make it very much from my web development background. I want to make sure that I ship the best features first, you know, the ones that really will make an impact and make it important. And I want to, you know, I have this wonderful opportunity now with people who are obviously engaged to ask them like, what is it that you love? What is the most valuable point to you? And build those pieces first. I think that the website will continue to evolve over the years, certainly. And then after that also just make sure that all the shipping is taken care of, making sure that addresses are, um, ironed out and that everybody gets exactly what they wanted. It's thousands of orders. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Do you have, do you have a, uh, it may be too soon to tell since you're, there's still a lot of questions to be answered, but do you have a rough timeline of when the website, the website, when you're looking to get the website kind of like the first, the first phase of the website up and going for everyone to see the first, the new version?

Ryder Carroll: I don't want to commit to any timeline right now because I haven't asked those questions. So like, especially with web development, some features that might be really important might also push the timeline back. So right now I'm more focused on getting the book into people's hands first, which will definitely happen much quicker than the website. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Cause I guess as well, like when people receive the books, there's already a bullet journal system that exists that people can start to use, I guess. Right.

Ryder Carroll: Yeah. And there are, as I had mentioned before, updates to the bullet journal system itself, but, um, each one of the books ships with a built-in, um, instruction booklet. So you can actually get all the new information like the back is for $5 and plus have the digital download accessible immediately. So even without the book, they can get started on the new version.

Myke Hurley: The booklet's nice. I mean, cause you know, a PDF is great, but a booklet in a book is, you know, yes, that's, you know, that's kind of, it's kind of what it's all about. Right.

Ryder Carroll: And yeah, I, I agree, but I wanted to make sure that, you know, some people really love their books and I really didn't want to take that away from them. So hopefully it's the best of both worlds.

Brad Dowdy: Well, Ryder, I, if you couldn't tell, I'm like giddy for you. I mean, I am so excited about this project and so excited that it's seen just like roaring success and so excited for you and seeing what, you know, what's going to come out of this. And, you know, just talking with you over the past year and watching this grow. So I know that this system's in the right hands and I'm just really, really excited and happy for you that this is going so well.

Ryder Carroll: Thank you kindly.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. So if, if you have not checked out the bullet journal system, head to bulletjournal.com for one, and then we're going to have the link in the show notes to get to the Kickstarter. You've only got 40 hours left from the time we record. So by the time you download this, you need to be, need to be checking the Kickstarter if you want to get in. And I can't recommend it highly enough. Myke and I are backers. We have huge, yeah, Instaback. Instaback.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I got, I got one of the limit. I've got the limited edition ones.

Brad Dowdy: So yeah, me too. Me too.

Myke Hurley: And that proves it.

Ryder Carroll: Wow. You guys really got in early. That's awesome.

Myke Hurley: I can't remember how I found out about it. Either I saw you tweet or what tends to happen, Ryder, is the listeners, listeners of this show, they send these sorts of things to me and Brad as well. So like we see about, we see these things relatively quickly when people pick up on them. And I saw it, I backed before I even watched the video because, you know, I love this, this system and to see you make a physical book and that sort of stuff. I wanted to support you for the work that you do, but I'm so, oh, by the way, I love the video, by the way. Yeah, the video is awesome. Really, really great. And the story that you tell in the video, I won't spoil it, but people should go and watch it. Like a lot of like the background of why the system came to exist, which I don't think I knew much about prior to watching that. So it was, it was, it was nice to see that like kind of why does the bullet journal exist rather than it just being a cool thing that you came up with.

Ryder Carroll: Thanks a lot, guys. That means a lot. Yep. It's funny, but even my parents didn't get the limited edition.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, Myke was right. It was totally our listeners and readers of the blog. I mean, they, they pinged me on Twitter, said, Hey, look, this is up. I was like, you're kidding me. And I went and looked and there was, I don't know, I think there were already a couple hundred limited edition ones gone. So I was like, I couldn't click fast enough. You know, is that counter going to roll down on me? So yeah, it was great. So I appreciate you, Ryder, taking the time to come on and share a little bit about the bullet journal with us. And, you know, hopefully, you know, we will get to talk to you again in the future as this thing continues to grow and becomes ingrained in so many people's lives and helps so many people out. And I just can't thank you enough for taking the time for us. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me on the show. You got it. All right. I think that's all I got, Myke.

Myke Hurley: Awesome. If you want to catch up with us online, there's a few ways you can do that. First off, you want to get the show notes for this week's episode, relay.fm slash penaddict slash 124. If you want to find me on Twitter, I am at imike and Brad is at dowdyism, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M. Brad writes over at penaddict.com and he also sells some fantastic products over at knock.co. I'm going with that now, buddy, by the way.

Brad Dowdy: That works for me.

Myke Hurley: I like it. I love that URL. And once again, thank you to our sponsors this week, the fantastic guys and girls over at Dash, Pench, LA, and Squarespace. Until next time, say goodbye, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Goodbye, Brad.