The Pen Addict 363/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	363
Title:	Deepbossing
Release Date:	June 12th, 2019
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 363
Audio File:	Audio Episode 363
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 363
Length:	7373 min <br />1.217 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Introduction

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict episode 363, and today's show is brought to you by Squarespace and Harry's. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr. Brad Dowdy. Hi, Brad Dowdy.

Brad Dowdy: Hey, Myke Hurley, where you been?

Myke Hurley: San Jose, California. Where have you been?

Brad Dowdy: Raleigh, North Carolina. Somerville, South Carolina. Hilton Head, South Carolina. And now, back in the comfort of my own home.

Myke Hurley: Wow, you were on the South Carolina tour.

Brad Dowdy: Little road trip, little Carolinas road trip. So, yeah, which we'll talk about all the things that happened during the road trip, but that is why we had to record a little bit early last week, right?

Myke Hurley: Mm-hmm, we sure did.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, our friend Dan Smith hooked us up with two episodes full of awesomeness. And I gotta say, I don't know what feedback you saw, but the stuff I was getting in tweets and emails was spectacular. And we'll talk about that more with some Ask TPA questions, follow-up from Dan's episodes. But I thought they went really, really well. So, thanks to Dan for doing that and spending some time with us and answering a lot of questions that our listeners had about nip grinding.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, you really brought the brains to that episode.

Brad Dowdy: I mean, you're not going to find it here on a week-to-week basis. No. We have to bring that in every time.

Brad Dowdy: Every time. So, how was the Triangle Pen Show? It was great. Like, I like that show. Like, it's a small pen show. I mean, I'm not going to, like, you know, make it something into... It's not. It's always going to be a small show. It's not the biggest show. It's not the busiest show. But it's a really, really good, fun show. I thoroughly enjoy it. And we've talked about a lot of the reasons why. Primarily because I get to bring my kids. They're generally out of school at that time. So, we road trip up to Raleigh. They, air quote, help me out at the show. We'll get into that. There wasn't a lot of that going on. But that's okay because they got to do other things. But the word I used in our show notes is consistent. And that's a weird tag or label to put on a show. But I know what I'm getting out of that show. It's run well. The hotel is nice. The ballroom is spacious. It is the right size. You know, I know where I need to be when I need to be there as far as schedules go. I know what the events are before I get there. I know what time the events are happening. You know, there's pizza for me Thursday night and a dessert party for me Saturday night. I know what time the auction is. I know where I can go see the auction stuff ahead of time. It just works from open to close. It's really, really well run. So, props to Terry Maywater for running that show. I enjoy it. It's fun because, like, it's not just a beehive of activity, right? Right, right. Which I couldn't do that and bring my kids at the same time, right? Because that's a little added responsibility. Even though, you know, they're getting older. They're 10 and 12 now. Liz was 12. Tyler's 10. And they were pretty much able to just, like, run, have the run of the show in a hopefully respectful manner. It seemed to be. And, you know, if I ever needed to go take a break for a second, I would have to round them up somehow to come man the table because they weren't going to hang out behind there at any time without me asking them specifically to. So, it was fun all the way around.

Myke Hurley: The auction, I think, is one of the things that does make the show different. Like, it's always something that you bring up every year. And it seems to be a thing that the Triangle Pen Show has that not a lot of shows have or focus on in the same way.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, other shows will have auctions. Like, you'll get to see one in San Francisco, hopefully. I think they have an auction out there, which I haven't been to. And a few of the other pen shows have auctions. I think Ohio, which is another Terry Mayweather show, you know, and other shows have auctions. But this one, it was, like, my first. Oh, Chicago, I think, has one, too. But this was kind of, like, my first really all-in experience on the auction, like, three years ago. And watching that grow over the years, it's been pretty cool. Like, this thing was packed. Like, it's hard to put in, like, a scale or a scope on it. Because if I say, you know, there were, you know, 50, 60, 70 people there, like, it doesn't seem like a lot. But, like, in a small capacity with, you know, one lot bidding at a time for fountain pens, like, it's very, very busy. And even the show promoter said something to me, like, I don't know if it was, I think it was right before we started. He was like, wow, look at all the people. It's like we had to pull in chairs and do all kinds of things. And I just think it's popular because it's different. Even if you don't go in with the intention of buying anything or bidding on anything, it's an interesting spectacle, right? It's kind of fun. It's a little bit funny. You know, there's not much time for humor and jokes cracking because there's 120 lots they have to auction off. And that takes several hours. So, by the end, people are getting ornery. Probably rightfully so. But it's just kind of this spectacle. Like, if you're going to the pen show for not just a day trip, it's kind of one of those things you want to see. You know, you don't have to participate in it. But it's kind of fun to see. In the past, I've bought a few things at auction. This year, there was a ton of modern stuff. I think that helped, you know, with the auction participation. There were a good quantity. I could probably count off the mix because I have the auction sheet. But there were probably, like, 60-40 vintage to modern. Where in the past, it's probably been, like, 80-20 or 90-10 vintage to modern. You know, and modern, I don't mean, like, brand new pens. I mean, like, you know, in the last 20, 30 years of pens. You know, 80s, 90s, 2000s, things like that. So, stuff more up my alley as opposed to, like, going at it with vintage vendors on vintage pens that I don't know much about. So, it was kind of cool to see. Like, there were two Nakias in there, right? And just really interesting things that we don't normally see. So, it was fun. And, you know, I didn't really buy anything this time. I bought one small lot, which we'll talk about in just a second. But I was actually a little bit surprised at, like, how high of prices these things were going for. Like, there were some real bidding wars going on. And things were, there were not a lot of capital D deals to be had, right? There were some, there's plenty of deals. Like, that's why you go to an auction, right? If you're interested in a pen as a hobbyist, not a retailer or a vendor where you're trying to resell pens, but if you're interested as a hobbyist, you can go and maybe get a little better deal on a pen that you might have been looking for, something like that. That's how I kind of look at it.

Myke Hurley: Do you think people get carried away?

Brad Dowdy: Absolutely. Right. Without question. And I have in the past. And this year, when I looked through the auction list, there was, like, nothing I had to have. And as soon as you have to have something, then you get carried away, right? You're willing to get carried away. But, you know, with the auction, like, I saw, I think out of the 120 lots, I saw one that I knew I was going to bid on. It was a Pelican 101 in, you know, a pen from the last four or five years. That's actually still available at retail. And if I could get it at a good price, I was in. But by that time, like, I was bidding against someone who'd already spent thousands of dollars. I was like, there's no point in me continuing to bid on a pen I could get for the same price outside of the auction.

Myke Hurley: It reminds me of an episode of The Office where they're doing a charity auction. And Dwight thinks all he has to do is guess the prices and he wins them rather than pay for them. It kind of sounds like what this person was doing.

Brad Dowdy: Well, this person was a very, very knowledgeable person. It just didn't make any sense to a lot of us. And anyone in the chat, y'all know exactly who I'm talking about. I mean, it's not some big secret or conspiracy or anything. But he had money to spend and he was doing it. And so I was just like, you know, I get to a point where it's just like there's no point in me leaving the auction with this pen when I could probably walk into the show floor tomorrow and do just as well. Right. So that's how a lot of it was, especially like with the modern pens, the vintage pens. I can't really speak on because I don't know a lot of their values, but it was fun. So I bought one lot. I spent $80 on an older platinum pens, kind of random pens lot. And I need to share this. I haven't shared this outside of like the pen addict member stuff yet. But I need to share this lot online because it was kind of funny because there ended up being a very interesting pen in this collection, a collaboration that Platinum did with the Playboy company, like that Playboy company back in the 70s. And the pen is kind of nice. Like it's kind of well done for what it is. And it's kind of like a funny memento type of thing. Right. It's not like I'm collecting or doing anything with these pens, but it's basically a four pilot pen lot up, excuse me, platinum pen lot. And I paid $80 for like the four pens. And, you know, they're probably worth a total of about $80. So it wasn't like anything, but there was some neat stuff in that lot that I wanted to get. So, yeah, I need to share that pen more because it's kind of interesting. And I think I want to ink it up and I'm going to ink it up and use it and see what it's about. It's got like a 14 carat nib and it's got chains on the barrel, Myke. I'm not sure if you noticed that. I saw that. And a very, very faint bunny logo on there. So you wouldn't know what it really is. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: The chains are weird.

Brad Dowdy: Well, see, at first I didn't think it was chains. I thought it was more, you know, the doorway entries, like where you hang stuff, hang like the beads where you walk through the door to like get into, you know, the room, wherever the, you know, the key parties going on back in the 70s, like that little door kind of thing. It looked like those type of things as opposed to chain chains.

Stationery Purchase Discussion Shift

Myke Hurley: We're going down a road now that it's not necessary to explain what you needed.

Brad Dowdy: I mean, I didn't know if you got the picture. I didn't know if you got the picture of what I was trying to explain.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: So I bought some pins. Right.

Brad Dowdy: Didn't really go into the show thinking I need this or I need that. But I wanted another microarchitect nib, which I've talked about a lot on this show. A dowdy grind. Yeah. That's a different dowdy grind. Oh. Yeah. Sorry. That's a different dowdy grind. That's too many now. I thought I'd keep trying. There's too many. There's too many. And I forgot mine. And I know people wanted to try it out. And luckily enough, I was stationed right next to Mark Backus, who does the micro grind for the nib grinder. And I mean, we were literal table neighbors. Like we were shoulder to shoulder all weekend. So I was like, well, I'm here. Let me just get him to knock me out another nib when he's not busy. But I need a pin to put that in. So right on the other side of Mark, also right next to me, was Franklin Kristoff. And guess what? The last nib I had from him fits in. Well, it fits a Franklin Kristoff. I get one of the Franklin Kristoff Fine Steel Yovo No. 6 nibs. They fit in lots of things. So I went down and picked out a pin from the prototype tray at Franklin Kristoff, which is something I have not done.

Brad Dowdy: Two years, maybe? In at least six weeks.

Brad Dowdy: Probably. So I could be wrong. But I'm thinking like the last time I was in Chicago, I know I bought one. And I wasn't there for two years. I don't know that I've bought one since, but maybe I have. Anyway, so I bought a really neat. You would like this pin. It's a clear demonstrator. Yeah, it's got that blue. Blue finial, blue grip section like Jonathan Brooks material. It looks like a wave crashing type of blue, right? It's like an ocean-y type of blue with white ripples into it. So it's really neat. Really neat looking. Very happy with that pin. And then thinking I didn't want to buy any pins anyway. And I ended up with one. I was good until I got bored on Sunday and started walking around the show. And that's how Nakaya's happened, Myke. Right? No. You walk around the show. No. That is not how that works. But it might be how it worked for you. It is how it works for me.

Pen Show Inventory Knowledge

Brad Dowdy: You know, the more pin shows you go to, the more people you see repeatedly. And the more you know what their inventory is. And the more that they know what you like out of their inventory.

Brad Dowdy: So, yeah. Made a deal. Got another Nakaya. This one's really neat. I think you will like this one to try. Like, this is not one I think you would ever want to own. It's like a really large model pin. You would like it. And I think you would be like, oh, this is really neat. But this would not be a pin that I could see you ever owning. Because it's basic black. But it's a hairline matte finish. Right? It's almost like it's a brushed finish. It's not a shiny lacquer finish.

Myke Hurley: Is it kind of like the Lamy 2000?

Brad Dowdy: In theory, yes. But it actually has more of a texture. And it's flatter in color.

Myke Hurley: But that's maybe the closest thing I can think of. Right. Which has like a kind of a textured barrel that I've used.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Yep. So, you can feel that. But it's even more pronounced on this particular Nakaya. So, this one's called a long cigar. And as you can imagine, it's a longer shaped pin. Just to round it in. And, yeah. It's now home with me. It's actually sitting on the desk here. I've always wanted a finish. Do you remember? And I should have looked this up beforehand. But the time we discussed one of Leigh Reyes' pin, Nakaya pins. And it had the skull on the end of it. And we had like something. We had some death thing. And she made t-shirts for us. It's not that pin. But it's that finish. So, ever since then, I've always wanted something in that finish. Okay. And I was able to get it now. So, it's very cool.

Brad Dowdy: Last thing. Knock had a good show. And we brought our new Coleman case. This time in yellow with a sky blue interior.

Myke Hurley: It's really good. Summertime.

Brad Dowdy: It is summertime. But as it turns out, Myke, it's not the best to photograph for the internet for reasons that, you know, people have discovered. Which we did not realize at the time to make a case in this shape, also in yellow. But we love this case. And it's awesome. And we have a few left if you want to buy it. What is wrong with people? I don't know. Like, okay. So, you know, you've known me for a long time. I have a certain child's mind. I'll readily admit I'm an inner 12-year-old.

Brad Dowdy: This did not even cross my mind. Like, whatsoever.

Myke Hurley: You can find anything if you're looking odd enough.

Brad Dowdy: Like, I'll be honest with people. Like, when we make things, like, okay, we knew this might happen. And I had no concept of this. Especially because, like, the first one we came out with was green. And it didn't really make a difference. But apparently yellow, in this case, is more interesting to a lot of people. So, won't last long, folks. There's a few left. They're up on the site now. So, we always put them. We'll do the show special case. And then we'll, whatever we have left over, we'll bring back, put them up on the site. And we'll blow them out and they're gone. So, it's a really cool case. I'm using this as my marker case right now.

Squarespace Sponsorship

Myke Hurley: All right. That website that we just spoke about, that website, NotCo, that's actually a Squarespace website. And Squarespace, one of the sponsors of today's episode. Because you can make your next move with Squarespace. They will let you easily create the website that you want for your next idea. With the ability to grab a unique domain name to give it the brand that you want. Take advantage of it and customize beautiful awarding and templates to make sure that it shines when people visit it. And so much more. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform that will let you put your next project online. There is nothing to install. There is nothing to patch or upgrade. They take care of all of that stuff so you don't have to. And they give you the ability to add tons of functionality to your site so you can make the type of website you want to make. If you have a restaurant and you want to be able to put in a bunch of information and maps and all that stuff, you can do that. If you just want to create a blog or a portfolio, maybe for your writing or for your photography, you can. But if you want to create an online store where you sell physical products and you want to manage your inventory and all of that stuff, Squarespace have all of the tools to do it. And many, many people, including Brad, do. You can go and check it out yourself right now. They have a free trial. So you can go to squarespace.com slash penaddict and sign up. And you can play around and really to your heart's content just get a feel for what Squarespace is like before you get ready to launch your website to the world. And then you sign up for one of their plans, which start at just $12 a month and include 24-7 customer support as well because they are amazing like that. When you decide to sign up for a plan, use the offer code penaddict and you'll get 10% of your first purchase of a website or domain and be showing your support for this show. That is squarespace.com slash penaddict and the code penaddict to get 10% off your first purchase and show your support for this show and all of RelayFM. Squarespace, make your next move, make your next website.

Brad Dowdy: One quick thing on Squarespace we haven't mentioned in a while. They have a commerce app, which when I travel, that comes in really handy to adjust inventory if I need to. Like if we've miscaltered or got new stuff in, I can just like pull up that app on my phone and go right into like our product inventory and make a change on the fly in about two seconds. It's really cool how they've done that. I like it.

Brad Dowdy: All right. After Raleigh, North Carolina, Myke, I headed south and built some spoke pens for a few days with Brian. And what's so funny?

Myke Hurley: There is just something amusing to me about you making the pens because I feel like sometimes you're surely more of a hindrance than a help.

Brad Dowdy: That's probably Brian would probably agree.

Myke Hurley: Like Brian can't do it all on his own. So like he needs you. He needs help. Like he needs you to help him. But I assume that like you don't know what you're doing. Like you're learning, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: He has to teach me.

Myke Hurley: There must be times where like he puts you on the lathe and he's just like, oh, God, he's going to lose his hand. What do I do if he loses his hand? You know?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. He has band-aids. We've used them. Oh, boy. Let's take this really, really clear. Brian's an engineer. Like literal. Like I could tell you some of the products he designed and you'd know what I'm telling you type of design engineer. He knows how to make stuff.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: That's why you work. Yeah. I know how to make pointy hair.

Myke Hurley: You know how to design things. You can design. You have the brain to come up with products. Like you can do that part. But for taking it from idea to physical product, you need people to help you with. Right? You have Jeff and you have Brian.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Right. So Brian is amazing at that stuff. Like we run across a problem and like he gets that little like computer mind going where like he doesn't talk for like a minute. Then he goes, okay, let's do this. And it works. Right? Like I don't function that way.

Myke Hurley: He seems to make lots of jigs, which is a thing that I learned from Tom and Dan. He makes it. He makes everything. A jig is like a tool to help you use a tool effectively. Right. Exactly. Which is kind of, I mean, just the concept of it is kind of hilarious to me because you need jigs for the jigs, I guess. Yeah. But yeah, I've seen pictures that you share on Instagram or in your newsletter. It seems like that there's lots of jigs going on in the spoke pen workshop.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So this is all foreign to me, right? It's like we're not grabbing, I'm not getting a pen that's been delivered to us and reshipping it out to someone else. Right. There is an assembly process. And like I said, there's a build document for our pens. Like it's intense. So therefore it takes us a while to make the pens.

Myke Hurley: Do you think that the document exists because of you? Would the document in you to be interested in here too if you weren't around? Yeah. Because that's how Brian is. That's good then.

Brad Dowdy: It will be fully documented. That's good. Yeah. Oh no. If I wasn't around, the document would still exist. It just has a lot more colors and pictures now that I'm here. So yeah.

Brad Dowdy: He's, yeah. He has to teach me, like I get a job, right? So like then I just sit down and do the job until I'm done with the job and then I get another job. Like I can't think of what to do next. I don't have the order. Yes. The order of work down. You're a shop assistant. I'm a widget maker. Sure. Like I'm damn good at making widgets. You're a production line. Yeah. That's why I like shipping. I'll never like argue with shipping because like I don't mind shipping. That's my, shipping is making widgets, right? It's, you know, I don't have to like actually physically think about, you know, have we done this part here to this pen and where is this whole status out? But, you know, I can, you know, I can do my widget making pretty well. I mean, I think I'm a decent widget maker, but, you know, I'm not going to invent anything. So, you know, in over the span of like two and a half days, we ended up with over 200 pens. So now I'm starting to ship those out now. So this will be like for all the spoke pen backers who happen to be listening, you know, this will be a slower shipping process. Like we're still like within our timeframes and dates, but it's not like I can take those 200 pens and batch ship those in like two days, right? That's going to take me like a week, probably more than a week to ship that many pens because it's a one-on-one type of fulfillment. Like since we have so many colors and so many styles and so many things that have to be verified, I can only take like one order at a time, sit down with the order, figure out what they do, box it up, pack it up, label it, ship it, go on to the next order. So that's just a process. Whereas if I sell 50 of the not Coleman cases, I can batch print probably 40 of those orders and have that done within an hour, right? It's a different type of process. So, you know, that's where we're at right now. We're starting to ship. We have all these parts in and everything's looking good. We're still, we should get the orange and blue parts we had redone. We're hoping to get them next week and then we'll just keep going. So, you know, we'll be making pens and parts throughout the summer and shipping throughout the summer and we'll get it done. They're looking awesome though. I love this pen. I love, everyone I pack up, I'm like, ooh, this is a nice pen. And I do that all day long. So that's pretty cool.

Myke Hurley: So I'm still waiting, right? Because I'm an Orange Crush person.

Brad Dowdy: You're an Orange Crush, yes. So you'll be, whenever we get those in and ready, we'll circle back to like the top of the list because we're just doing it in backer order.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, backer order based upon availability. Yep. Yep.

Shipping Process

Brad Dowdy: So that's the only way we can kind of do it. So it's manual, right? That's a long process. Yeah. Like every time I have to figure who's next and do they have something that I can ship? If no, go to the next one, right? Like this is why I can't ship like 200 pens in the span of two days. Like it just takes time.

Myke Hurley: Right, because you need to sit and work it out.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. But that's not a complaint. That's just a reality of how the shipping is for this product. And I think it's fine. Like it's just going to be, you know, if I can ship 25 packages or 50 packages in a single day, that's a huge win.

Myke Hurley: So today's episode is an episode very heavily focused on stuff me and you are doing. Yeah. I mean, that's just become like a different trend of the show over time as we've both started making stuff. My making stuff begins now. So we'll talk about that a little bit later on. But there is something that we didn't make that we want to talk about too.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I almost didn't put this in because of that reason. Like you and I think the same way. I was like, I want to talk about this, but it doesn't really fit into the overall show. So I just kind of jammed it in there.

Myke Hurley: But might be a break, right? Might just be a nice kind of break of the content anyway. So that's why I said it.

New Platinum Pen

Brad Dowdy: And it's not a huge conversation and people will want to know about it and our thoughts on it. And that's the new Platinum 3776 Rokka Limited Edition.

Myke Hurley: I mean, that's a great name. R-O-K-K-A, all caps, Rokka.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's a great name, right?

Myke Hurley: I like it. It's easier than some of the other ones that they've had, like Nisli Las or whatever.

Brad Dowdy: Uh, Kampu, hello. No. Shungyo.

Myke Hurley: But Kampu you can remember.

Brad Dowdy: True. Shungyo and Nisli Las and Lavand. See, I can remember them all, but Rokka, that's a good one. But it basically means, what does it mean? Snowflake? I think hexagonal snowflake, is that the word? So, this is a really pretty pen. Like, I'm not going to lie. You look at it and I go, wow, this is pretty. And I have no desire for it. Like, it's not a me pen, but they're going to sell the heck out of this pen, right? That's my opinion of it. It looks good. It's what Platinum does. It's, I'm tired of all the clear pens that they do. They finally gave us a bunch of the, um, of, you know, color variations last year with the red and green and pink and purple over the last two years. But this is like one of their standard kind of clear barrel with a really pronounced snowflake pattern, right? So, what are your thoughts on this? Because you seem to be, I, I'm not saying like it's amazing and I love it and I got to have it, but you seem just in your humming seem to be a little bit more hesitant than I am.

Myke Hurley: Well, I mean, I absolutely adore my 3776. It is a almost perfect pen. Like, you should get one. If you don't have one, find one, get one. And this might be the one for you. It's just not the one for me. It's a little too delicate looking for me. Like, it's too much like fine crystal in its design, you know? And that's just not my aesthetic. I would be super interested in it if, if that body was, was, was, like you, was like hollow. Right?

Brad Dowdy: This is solid. Like honey, like honeycomb? Yes. Like the Pinnider honeycomb?

Myke Hurley: Uh-huh. Like, that's what I thought this pen was when I saw it at first. And that is intriguing to me, right? Because that's just like, I don't have anything like that. But, you know, I don't, I don't have anything like this pen exactly either, but what it's similar to is too similar. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just like, here is another fancy, um, engraving or whatever is like another fancy way that they've, they've kind of cast the pen, which looks super cool, but it's not even my favorite of the 3776s over the last couple of years. I have my favorite. It's the Levent, the purple one with the rose gold. Like that's my favorite one with the lines down it where it wasn't too aggressive. Like the nicely last was, um, right. I found what the one that I love the most, this is super cool. It's just not for me. Like it's all, you know, it's like clear and silver. It's like, all right, whatever. I like that. I have purple and rose gold.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It's funny. Like my favorite is the shungyo. It's the red one, which interesting enough, none of us, neither of us chose the kampu, which I think was probably the most popular out of the whole series. Um, but they, they've done a great job on this series. I, this one's a little bit weird, but maybe necessary, right? In the rotation of pens that they're making. Um, I think it's around the same price as the kampu, like the mid 200s. 250, 275.

Brad Dowdy: Seems high ish, but like, I mean, it's going to sell out like instantly. 2,500 of these there. If you want this pen, you're going to have to get it like when it launches. Um, I don't think it's going to be around forever. It's, it's, it's pretty cool. Um, I just don't see one ending up on my desk, but I wanted to bring it up because.

Myke Hurley: What's the 3776 that you like?

Brad Dowdy: Shungyo. S-H-U-N-G-Y-O. I believe it's red with, um, rhodium plated trim.

Myke Hurley: Yep. I got it. I just want to see that in the show notes.

Brad Dowdy: It's, it's an etched barrel, but less etched than the Nice and Lavon. It's more of a flatter etching.

Myke Hurley: Hmm.

Brad Dowdy: But it's cool. So out of all of these, the Shungyo is the only, I've, all of these have crossed my desk to this point and either I reviewed them or one of the Panatic writers have reviewed them. The only one I've ever kept for me personally is the Shungyo and I've had a chance to use them all. And like, I don't need all of them. Like I picked the one. There may be another one in the future that it becomes number two or replaces the number one. But, um, you know, right now I'm, I'm on the Shungyo. I'm good with that. This does not replace that for me. So I guess that's probably the best way to look at it.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Hit me with it.

New Product Launch

Brad Dowdy: Michael, when you were on your travels, as I was in the past week or two, you also launched a product or at least had a product in hand with a partner that you worked on said project with. Yeah. What did you launch in the past week or actually in the past day or two that might be of interest to Panatic? Yeah. To Panatic listeners. It seems like weeks ago. It seems like years ago because that's about how long we started talking about it. So what did you launch yesterday, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Uh, it's a, it's a notebook called the theme system journal. It is a pre-printed journal, um, it's a system, uh, and it is all contained within a beautiful notebook, which is based on the studio neat tote book. And we'll get to why in a minute, I guess. Yeah, we will. As part of a show that I do called Cortex, um, on Relay FM with CGP Gray, where we talk about how we work. Um, a couple of years ago, Gray introduced an idea called themes, yearly themes. And since then it's become a huge part of our show because it's become a huge part of our working lives. Uh, every year me and Gray and many Cortex listeners set a theme for the year. Like this is what I want to brand my year as because there's a bunch of things that I want to achieve. And it becomes like a North star, like a guiding light for the decisions that you make throughout the year. Um, many people, including me will add in separate themes, maybe a theme for a quarter or a season or a theme for a six months, depending on how kind of things are going. And we also leave it up to kind of to change a move. Um, and then a, what, some time ago I started journaling and I've spoken about that on this show a lot, right?

Brad Dowdy: Like, yeah, for sure. That's what I wanted to talk about. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: How this came from that. Exactly. Like I spoke about it on Cortex and then spoke about it here too, because there was a, like a cross between it all. Um, and basically I created a system in a Hobonichi, uh, Techo where I would ask myself a bunch of different things. So it was like a system of questions every day and it changed over time. Um, right now the version that I ask myself is what was good today? What was bad today? What am I proud of? And what am I looking forward to? That's what I ask myself that every day. Then I have a series of questions that I ask myself that I give myself a score on every day as well. And these are like, basically we call them daily themes now, which is how it's represented in the notebook. Things that you want to achieve every single day and you can give yourself a score for them. Um, and I asked myself like, you know, did I do anything to be creative, to generate revenue for my company? How am I doing? Like, what did I do something to make an effect in my marriage and my health, that kind of thing. And the way that I do it, and I've been doing it for a while now, it's, I used to give myself a score out of five, but ultimately didn't like that because what's a two? I could never really work it out. So now, and it's printed in this journal, which I'll get into a little bit more in a minute. It's a circle of a line through and I either don't color it in, I color half in, or I color it all in. And that's like a much better system, a binary system for me to, to effectively know whether I've done nothing, something, or felt like I've really achieved on those areas every day. This was a system that I was keeping for myself in a notebook that I was kind of jerry rigging into, right? I was putting this into a Hobonichi, which is not made for that. So about a year ago, feels like about a year ago, we came up with the idea of taking my system that Gray also used as a version of this as well, and creating a designed notebook to fit that system. So we worked on a design. We have a design. It's broken down into a bunch of sections. It's three main sections, really. It starts off with, this is where you write your themes and it's outlined. You put your theme, a description of your theme, and one you wanted to achieve. Then there are journal pages, enough for 90 days of journaling, which are broken down into four boxes. So two small boxes, one large box, and one even smaller box. And you can put the date and the page number on there too, and there's enough for 90 days in there. And then at the back, there is that final section of daily questions, right? So there's 10 large boxes where you could write down a question or a thing that you want to be doing every day. Then there are a bunch of scoring boxes, right? Where you could go in and score yourself each day as well. And there's enough there as well for over 90 days worth of scoring. This could also be used for a daily checklist of any kind, right? Like it's really just a habit tracker. Habit tracking has become a thing, right? And this is effectively habit tracking. But we kind of brand it and think of it as daily journal, like daily questions that I ask myself, right? Does that make sense? Am I explaining it well enough? You're explaining it. Okay. I've been very conscious of the fact that I feel like I haven't done a good job explaining. Uh, but that's also part of the point of this book at the moment. Yeah. So this notebook has been made because I believe that we have the beginning of a system, right? That the theme system can be a thing that people can use to help themselves kind of stay on track. But I am not sure yet if the system that I have designed meets the needs for a large amount of people because it's very simple. It's just structured, right? Like we don't preprint questions in here. And I feel like for me, a lot of the journaling systems that exist are way too heavy. And I think that they are heavy because they want to lock you in. Right.

Brad Dowdy: Right. I mean, my, you've heard me say this a thousand times over the years when we talk about planners and, you know, other calendars and agendas. I do not want to be told what to do ever.

Myke Hurley: Exactly. And so what we wanted to do.

Brad Dowdy: And that includes putting a date on the page.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. That means that day. We actually don't print any page numbers or dates or anything. I don't know if that's something we'll change in the future, but right now we don't. And the reason for that is because I don't journal on the weekend. Mm-hmm. So I don't want to waste two pages. Right. Right. So like. Exactly. We have 90 days, but you could use one of our books for six months, depending on how often you journal. And this is part of everything to do with the theme system is what I want to do is give people a structure, a structure that worked for me without locking them down. I still want people to go that extra step to work out what do you want to be writing about every day? What do you want to be recording? We just want to give you the ability to not feel like it's going to go on forever. Right. Like with our system every day, you're only really writing about four things. You choose what they are. Right. And it's, but it should all go, it should all ladder back up to the theme. What I wanted to do was create what I think is a nice product to allow people to do this. Mm-hmm. But we are very aware that this, what we are calling the first edition, it's like named as such in the book. This is effectively a beta product. So we have sold a small amount of these. I'll get to that in a minute too. And we want people's feedback who buy it. So the people that buy it, if they like it, I want to know what they like. If they don't like it, I want to know what they don't like. So we can make it a better product in the future. So there are no instructions in our book because it's not done yet.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I found that very interesting and that was a note. So I listened to you and Gray talk about this yesterday. I don't listen. I'm maybe like a one-third to one-half Cortex listener, right? I don't listen to every episode. But I obviously wanted to listen to this so we could talk about it. And I found it interesting. There's essentially no guidelines. There's no instructions. There's no chart. There's no reference. The books you see like this usually tell you what to do. This page is for this. It will. This is how you manage it. Right. Eventually. We're figuring that out.

Myke Hurley: What I want to do is I want to pre-print in the book like an example page from each of us. Right. So you can see how we use it. Right. But I didn't want to put what I figured would be a lot of time. Like that probably will take longer to design than the actual design to make sure it's coherent and makes sense. I didn't want to do all of that until we're set on the actual system. So this book as it is right now really should only be bought by people that are bought into the idea of yearly themes, which a lot of our audience are. Right. Because then they already know what they want to do in theory. But then they can come to me and be like, all right, so I would like it if there was this in the book instead because that would help me for this. And like I'm using one every day now and I know what I want to change. Right. But I don't know when we're going to make that change. I would like, I mean, ideally this year, by the end of the year to have the new design ready for next year. But manufacturing has been an absolute nightmare. Yeah, let's talk about that. So have I done a decent enough job talking about what the book is, do you think?

Brad Dowdy: Yes. And people who are listening to this should hit the show notes to pull up a picture of the product. And you can see what the page layouts look like and see how the structure is. Yeah. And see the ideas that Myke's talking about. And it might be helpful to have that up at the time. The photos are amazing. At the time.

Myke Hurley: Cotton Bureau did a wonderful job. The picture they took of the debossing is incredible. It's really good. By the way, the debossing on this notebook is legit. It looks like it. I don't know how they did it to the level that they did it. Somebody mentioned to me, like, the debossing of the logo. It looks like two pieces, but it's not. And, like, so I had Studio Neat help me with this and we'll get to why. But, like, Tom was telling me, I don't know how they did this without it coming through the other side. Right. It's deep. It's deep. I like a good deboss. It's deep, deep bossing. So when the prototype came in, like, oh, no, this is 2D. I was like, no, no, it's not enough. Like, it's amazing. They did an incredible job with the manufacturing on this. But, yeah.

Notebook Production Issues

Myke Hurley: I figure I should say. I mean, I haven't told the full story about this, but, like, we can maybe tell it here. I originally came to you for this. Right. And so I mentioned on Cortex that we were rejected by American manufacturers. And it was your manufacturers that said they wouldn't do it.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. So, like, you came to me. Like, you know, you've always, you know, you like how the Notco stuff has been printed. And I was like, our printer's pretty open.

Myke Hurley: I didn't want to spend a ton of time working out what paper to use. Right. I wanted to make my system. So I needed to go to somebody that I knew could get me a quality product. So I came to you. And then, again, that was also then when you couldn't help me, I went to Studio Neat.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. So, like, our manufacturer, our printer said, we're not going to quote this job.

Brad Dowdy: With the specs and details we gave them, that was the answer I got. And I was like, huh. All right. It's like, you're like this big, massive printer that can do all these things. And the answer I get is we're not going to quote this job. To me, I really, I took offense to that, honestly. And we now have a new printer. Like, we changed printers after that, to be honest. I don't know if I ever told you that. Because I thought that was just disrespectful of the customer. It's very disrespectful, I think.

Myke Hurley: I would like to give you money to make me something. And you won't even, you won't even, like, give me a quote.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. And it's a digital file, right? Like, it's digital printing. Yep. We won't be digital printing. It just has to be bound. So, I was not happy about that. This is something we haven't discussed. And there's not much more details to go into it. But I was very disappointed. And the end result is we now have a new printer for Knox. Still in Atlanta. Just different print shop. Because I felt a long-term relationship.

Myke Hurley: I don't think that it's good for when you have an idea, right? Right. Right.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Because I need more than what I just brought you. And if that's the reception I get for something that should be, okay, it's not basic, but it's not overly complex. Mm-hmm. Then I need to take my ideas somewhere else. Mm-hmm. So, that's what we did.

Myke Hurley: So, then I went to Studio Neat because I knew they were working on the Totebook. I mean, the reason I knew that was because the Totebook was actually the product that existed before the Panobook. And having spoken to them for so long, I kind of, I knew all of that. And they'd sent me some prototypes of the Totebook. And I was like, I can 100% work with this. This is exactly what I'm looking for. So, I worked with Tom and Dan. And they've been very, very gracious in holding my hand and helping me through this process. But, oh, my God.

Myke Hurley: Brad, it's so hard.

Brad Dowdy: The end result was the right decision. Like, it's a perfect complement to that style of Notebook, right? The interior is the perfect complement to that style and design of Notebook. But getting there, yeah, like, there's nothing good that ever comes out of the manufacturing process until it's done. It is so difficult. And it's so slow.

Myke Hurley: And it is so confusing. Like, there are things that I should know about this Notebook that I don't know because I've been told so many things I've forgotten. I don't know how many pages are in it. Right? Yeah. And, like, I don't actually even know the paper. All I know is it is incredibly similar to the Notebook paper. But they had to make some slight changes because it's digital printed and not ink printed. Mm-hmm. It's like, this was why. So, we made a very, I don't want to say how many, but we made a very, a very small number of these. Um, but it was enough still that I was concerned we wouldn't sell them all. Mm-hmm. Sure. Like, it was small, but it was still, like, okay, I mean, we sold stuff before that hasn't sold this amount, you know? Uh, and there was a few reasons for this. One, because we wanted to see, like, is anyone actually going to buy this thing? And the other was, we may have made these, had them shipped to Cotton Bureau, they were shipping them to me, and we may have scrapped the entire project. Right. Because I needed to be confident that what I was selling was good.

Myke Hurley: Because of this show.

Myke Hurley: But it's also my own standards, right? Like, because I am a pen aficionado, there is absolutely no way that I would sell a product that would not meet my own needs. And, like, so I will say, right, like, this book works great with fountain pens for me. Like, yeah, there's a little bleed through, right? But it is more than acceptable for the stuff that I'm throwing at it. You know, I would say that, like, if you are unhappy with the performance of the panel book or the tote book for fountain pens, then this probably isn't the notebook for you. But I think that they handle them with aplomb.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, yeah. That's like a 90 percenter. Exactly. It's kind of like the knock paper is the same way. I mean, it's good with fountain pens. You can push it to a point where it's not.

Myke Hurley: I'm not going to go to the level at which it's perfect because that's madness. And it's really the majority of people that ever buy this book will not be using fountain pens in it. So I'm not going to go for the cost of trying to produce the perfect fountain pen notebook when I personally don't need that. Right. But I am like, Brad, I am so proud of what we have made.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So how long did it take to sell out? About 70 minutes. Seven or 70? 70. 70.

Myke Hurley: I know they were gone then. Yeah. And we have had. So for the amount that we've sold, we've already had about 20 times the amount of people sign up to be notified when there's more of them.

Brad Dowdy: Jeez. So when is there going to be more of them?

Myke Hurley: Well, you tell me, man.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. The answer is.

Myke Hurley: I'm ordering them.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. The answer is whatever date you get. Manufacturing is not. It will not be by then.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Oh, I know that. If there's one thing I know by now, it's. And you can't add enough time to that number. No. So we're going to be ordering.

Myke Hurley: We're ordering 10 times the amount we ordered last time. All right. Good. Well, maybe not that many, but 10 times the amount we sold. Yeah. A lot. We have yet to sell. So we have not sold all that we made because we have to keep some aside in case there's problems. Right. Exactly. There's a small amount. It's like all this stuff that I just never had to think about before. I'm very lucky to work with a company like Cotton Bureau. Like basically I send the products to them and they're doing the fulfillment because I would have no idea what I'm doing. Right. Like there's no, there's no, there's no way that I could do like what you and Jeff did. Right. Where you just created a company and did it. Like I need fulfillment because I can't focus all of my energy on shipping the notebook. But yeah, we're going to make more.

Myke Hurley: We're going to make more of this exact one. We're not going to make changes to it yet because people seem to really want it. And I would like to be able to sell a lot to a larger amount of people if we're going to make this thing a success because I want the most feedback I can possibly get. Yeah. I don't want to speak out of school particularly, but. I'm really intrigued to see, can this become a thing that's bigger than me? Right. Like that's the goal, right? Sure. That should be the goal. You know what? Let's be the next bullet journal, right? Right. Yeah. Start seeing people write theme system in that, that font, the bullet journal font. Right. But yeah, I want to see if like, I mean, I have ideas, right? I have other theme system products I want to make, you know? Like I have lots of ideas. So now I want to see like where can it go? But first, let's try and sell a lot of them. Yep. That's kind of where I am. But I mean, we're not going to have them any time before like six weeks from now. Oh, right. That would be a miracle.

Brad Dowdy: That would be a miracle.

Myke Hurley: That's but like, you know, best case scenario, best case perfect scenario is like six weeks. Gotcha. But it's not going to be before then is what I'm saying. I will know more like we're putting in the order today, I think. And I assume that we'll get some kind of timeline and then we can work from there. But I'm blown. I was blown away, man. I couldn't believe it. Like I was worried we wouldn't sell them and they were gone immediately. You know, it's like immediately. Yeah. We've never sold anything this quickly.

Myke Hurley: Like when I sell t-shirts and stuff, it takes longer than that to sell. Sure. I feel like I've really landed on something. And it's kind of crazy, really, because I had this idea and then I helped, you know, like I was the driving force behind this design. And it seems like it's really caught on in people's brains. So I'm super excited about it.

Shift to TPA Discussion

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's awesome. So to put a bow on this, because we have a bunch of ass TPA to get to, a bunch of good ass TPA this week. Well, it was about me, too. And that's the point of this question. When you started this podcast, did you think we'd be making stuff? Did you think we'd be making pens and notebooks when episode one of The Pen Addict started? Or episode 10? Or episode 100? No. I don't think we'd be having these types of conversations.

Myke Hurley: No, I can't believe it, really, that both of us are at this point now where we're doing these things. And it's working. Yeah. That's the thing that's wilder about it is, like, it's actually working.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I mean, there's space in this world for analog. And, you know, I think we've, you know, we see that every day, every week, our interactions with, you know, our listeners and our readers and, you know, things like that. There's room in this world for analog. In fact, I would say it's almost a requirement to have some analog in your life for sanity purposes. And I enjoy, you know, talking about these things. And I think that's why, you know, The Pen Addict has been around for as long as it is. It's like, I think these analog things that we have, like, play an important role in our life and helps us lead a better life. And, you know, I think that's something, you know, maybe we'll continue to explore.

Myke Hurley: I hope so. Yep.

Brad Dowdy: But first, Myke, I got to look good while I'm talking about analog. Oh, yeah. I mean, come on. What do you got for me?

Myke Hurley: I want to talk about Harry's. Brad, did you know that the average person could spend 3,000 hours of their life shaving? What? So don't waste four months of your life. I need a refund. Well, actually, I can help you save money instead. How about that? Don't waste four months of your life overpaying for poor performing razors. Get Harry's products. They're razors that are so sharp you can shave less often and save money at the same time. Harry's was founded by two guys that were tired of paying for overpriced gimmicks, like vibrating razor heads, flexible balls, handles that look like a prop from a sci-fi movie. These are just some of the tactics that leading brands use to overcharge. And you don't want that. Harry's make quality, durable blades at a fair price of just $2 per blade. And to keep prices low, they cut out the middleman. They bought a world-class blade factory that is in Germany, and they've been making some of the best razor blades in the world for over 99 years. And now they can provide great quality at factory direct prices and offer a 100% quality guarantee at the same time. If you don't love your shave, let Harry's know, and they'll give you a full refund. Brad, do you love your shave?

Brad Dowdy: I love my shave. I shave this morning. And I usually don't necessarily think about the ad reads or look at the stuff or think about what I want to say. But I had already done all that this morning. I didn't shower until right before the show. This is the TMI portion of our show, Myke. Never enough. Was it William?

Myke Hurley: Never enough information. NEI.

Brad Dowdy: So I was shaving, and I was like, I knew this ad read was coming up, and I knew you'd probably ask me to say something. And all I could think about was, why would I ever spend more for a worse shave? Like, this is the best product that I've ever used to shave with, and it costs less. I don't understand why not everyone uses it. That was it. That was my moment of clarity this morning. Whilst I was shaving with my hair.

Myke Hurley: We have the perfect offer on this idea for listeners of this show, because they can get a trial set, which has everything that they're going to need for a close, comfortable shave. Like a weighted ergonomic handle for an easy grip. Five-blade razor with lubricating strip and trimmer blade for a close shave. Rich lathering shave gel that will leave you smelling great. And a travel blade cover to keep your razor dry and easy to move around with on the go. To redeem your trial set, just go to harrys.com slash penaddict. That is harrys.com slash penaddict to redeem your offer and help support this show. Our thanks to Harry's for their support of The Pen Addict and Relay FM.

Back to TPA Questions

Brad Dowdy: All right, Myke. All right, Brad. Let's get back into what we do best, and that's answer. Ask TPA questions. I guess that's questionable whether it's the best aspect of the show, but I certainly enjoy it. So, Side Rose tried to get my fiancé into fountain pens. Instead, she fell in love with the J. Herban rollerball that uses fountain pen ink cartridges. You know that pen, Myke? Yeah, we spoke about it before.

Myke Hurley: I have one somewhere.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. She's currently using Lamy Safari Green and Diamine Oxford Blue. So, I have questions about that. But regardless, are there any other non-fountain pen pens that can use fountain pen ink cartridges? And yeah, that's something we've discussed before, and the discussion has always been around, yes, but they're all terrible, right? Like, it's not the best performance because of the steel rollerball and properties of fountain pen ink don't always match up to a smooth writing experience. The best I have used is the cheapest and, one could argue, ugliest, but it's the Pilot High Tech Point.

Brad Dowdy: This is the, I don't know, stablemate of the famous Pilot Precise V5, V7 series, right? A lot of people with that. I think in the UK, what are they called? Pilot VTech?

Myke Hurley: VTech sounds right. Yeah. Something like that. But everybody knows this pen. It's the Pilot Needlepoint Pen.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, about two or three years ago, they came up with one that uses Pilot's ink cartridges for ink, which means they come and just, they market them in just your basic black, blue, green, and red, you know, with the matching pen barrels and the matching ink cartridges. But you can use any Pilot ink cartridges in those. Like, they're proprietary ink cartridges. So, I think, and that's the one that actually works like a real pen should work, in my opinion. It's the best. Monteverdi makes a couple of pens that you can use. We've talked about the one-touch stylus tool before, Myke, as one that I keep saying, I keep threatening to buy that I never do because it uses the fountain pen ink cartridges. We both want that pen, but I never bought it. Yeah. Yeah. Then they also make one called the Engage, which is kind of the nicer, more traditional, higher scale product that also uses the same filling mechanism, you know, short international cartridges for that. And the last one I came up with was one that Susan just reviewed on the Pen Addict in the last couple of weeks. It's the Pen BBS 350, which offers a fountain pen nib.

Myke Hurley: I like BBS. I just think BBS boards. Yeah, totally.

Brad Dowdy: Totally. I grew up on that.

Brad Dowdy: So the fountain pen nib is swappable with a separate rollerball nib. So you can swap those in and out however you like and use the cartridges with it. I don't know if they may be using their own model, but I know Schmidt makes just a rollerball tip that a lot of these companies use. And if you like people who really get into this can find, you know, like really nice fountain pens that these Schmidt mechanisms fit into. It's just like a twist on like a if you would twist out a nib unit in your fountain pen, the Schmidt rollerball tips can just swap right into like that size size nib. So those are the main ones. And you can actually do some some weird stuff if you really get into it and want to keep keep going down that path. So that's my those are my options.

New Question Segment

Myke Hurley: All right. So next up, we have a question from Crotos who says, do you know of any retractable fineliners on the market?

Brad Dowdy: Only one that I could think of and I even looked around for more. The only one that I'm familiar with is the Sharpie pen, you know, not the permanent marker. And they made a traditional fineliner drawing pen years ago. And then about a year after they launched that, they added in a retractable version, which I didn't think was as good. But, you know, that's the only one I can think of exists. But there's kind of a reason these don't exist. It's because of how delicate those tips are and how prone they are to drying out. Right. It's a. Plastic tip in most cases. And when it's exposed to air, even though like some of the selling points of some of these fineliners is that, hey, you can leave the cap off for like 24 hours. They've never translated that into a retractable pen model for that same type of refill technology. So it's kind of a it's probably more of a problem for these manufacturers to deal with to make them have any incentive to make a retractable tip. So the only other option is I know some of the machine pen companies will make a pen that fits the Montblanc fineliner refills. So you can search for those. I don't have any of those off the top of my head, but I didn't. I kind of didn't think that's what you were going for. I figured we were just going for like a main production line, like secure a pig room micron, but retractable or, you know, Statler Statler fineliner, you know, but I love that.

Myke Hurley: Sharpie pen.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah, it's really good. The metal, you know, I yeah, I the Sharpie metal. This is like completely off off target, but the Sharpie metal barrel like for the big marker permanent marker is just a great product. And, you know, it's even better. What Tiffany. Oh, yeah, we should. You need one of those Tiffany Sharpie pen.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, yeah. That's what you think I need.

Brad Dowdy: I'll just get you. Yeah, I'll just get you the turquoise one. 715 pounds. Just the inner barrel. Just the inner. I'll get you the $2 pen, $2 version and like scratch off the I'll put tape around it and just write Tiffany on it. How's that?

Myke Hurley: That's perfectly fine.

Brad Dowdy: Same performance.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, well, you got to get to give it some weight, though.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, true. All right. Next one. Esoterica 1693. That's Jeheron's next year ink.

Myke Hurley: Must all architect grinds be extremely sharp along their main edge? Or can they ever be so slightly rounded or softened? How do you ask for that? I like the look of the architect, but I love a really smooth nib. Can this go together?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I think so. Like, I don't know. I think it's as basic as asking for that description, right?

Myke Hurley: I feel like a lot of nib grading is kind of just like, we're going to make this up as we go along, right? Because it changes person to person depending on your writing style. If you're getting it done like in person, especially or properly, you know? Right. Like, they want to customize it to you.

Brad Dowdy: Right. So, the theory of the architect is the vertical stroke is hairline thin or somewhere along that. And that's where that sharpness comes in. So, you can get that toned down very easily. It'll be a little bit wider, but it'll still have the variation of like, you know, if you took a stub nib and rotated the nib, you know, 90 degrees or whatever it is to get that angle right, you know, you can practice like that. And that's what it would feel like, you know. You wouldn't have the massive variation that you get in a lot of the stub nibs, but that doesn't sound like what you're looking for anyway. So, you can get some variation and have a smoother writing experience. So, yes, you would just ask for that just like you said it to us, and it would be pretty easy.

Myke Hurley: All right. So, next up, we have a question from Fovrin who says, is there a highlighter or a pen thin enough to use as a bookmark?

Brad Dowdy: So, there's a couple.

Brad Dowdy: The first one that came to mind is the tutu pen. Of course it did.

Brad Dowdy: Because that's kind of exactly what it's made for, but that's a really expensive kind of choice to like jump into. And, you know, it's got its flaws being open tipped, right? There's no closure on it. So, you can like when you're looking for like a flat pen, and there may be something else on the market coming soon that you just want to keep your eyes on that's redacted right now. But I found, I remembered a couple of pens that I'd used on JetPens, and I've reviewed them on the site. The Oto Minimo is kind of made for this. Even though it's a round barrel, it's ultra skinny. Like it could fold in like in between pages, right? If you put it towards the spine, you could fold it in and use it as a bookmark. But it's so small, they actually ship it like hooked to a piece of paper so it doesn't get lost, right? It's like hooked to a card if you look at the picture of it. And then the Pilot Birdie Switch is a little bit bigger version of that. It's just a different option. But these are like ultra thin pens, but they're round barrels. So, if you want a flat barrel, that's a little bit more of a challenge. But keep your eyes peeled.

Pen Explosions/Leaks

Myke Hurley: All right. So, next up, we have a question from Bump who says, What is the worst place you ever had a pen explode or leak ink? And do you have any tips for getting gel ink out of clothes and the inside of a dryer?

Brad Dowdy: This is a brutal tweet I got from our friend Bump a couple weeks ago. And so, I put out a call for help on Twitter. And the best thing I can tell you is people have lots of suggestions for this. So, it's threaded. We'll add a link into the show notes. And this happens more than you think. So, people have solutions for this. I don't know how many replies or responses I got to this. But it was a lot. And there's some great ideas. So, you should take a look and keep this link handy in case this ever happens to you. I know, Myke, we should probably keep this link handy for when it happens again. Because we'll get this question again for sure. I just didn't have a definitive answer to give Bump to do this. So, I wanted to put it out there to the wisdom of the crowd. And they delivered, man. Big time.

Myke Hurley: The only thing that I can ever think of that happened to me was when I was buying your Vacumatic. And I pulled the lever on the table. And it was full of ink. Yeah. That was cool. It was an experience for everybody involved.

Myke Hurley: And a story you can always tell. Evan asks, when you use a cartridge or converter pen with a converter, do you attach the converter to the section and fill through the nib in the feed? Or do you fill the converter first and attach the section afterwards? This is a fantastic question. I think this is like an ideology thing.

Brad Dowdy: It is. But it also relates to like the beginner thing. And it also relates to how particular you are thing. So, let's actually just answer this question.

Myke Hurley: What do you do?

Myke Hurley: Both. Of course I knew you were going to say that. I put the converter in and fill through the nib in the feed. That's what I always do.

Brad Dowdy: That's the preferred way to do it. The reasons I will not do that is if I feel the pen, I do not want to get as much ink onto the pen. Like it's not a basic plastic. I understand that.

Myke Hurley: Like if you have some kind of material that you feel may be affected by being dipped into ink. I get that. I totally understand that.

Brad Dowdy: And generally, that's not an issue, right? But like I don't fill my Nakayas that way. I will syringe fill.

Myke Hurley: Interesting.

Brad Dowdy: Even though I could and it would be fine, I syringe fill a converter and then pop the converter into the pen. And even though it's going to take it longer, I start writing. I mean, I just. Big fancy boy.

Myke Hurley: You're like, oh, I'm going to fill my Nakayas with a syringe.

Brad Dowdy: I'm particular, not necessarily because of like damage to the pen, which you really can't do, but of cleanliness and that type of thing.

Myke Hurley: I fill my kings of pens normally as I always do.

Brad Dowdy: I fill my king of pens that way. Okay. Yeah. Like I, although those are difficult because the nib is so large. That is true. You have to have a deep, deep ink well.

Myke Hurley: You have to have a lot of ink left in the bottle to be able to fill one of those things. Thirsty.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So the particular pen Evan discussed is one I just bought, the Franklin Kristoff 31. It has a recessed nib, right? So like the nib is kind of half covered by the barrel exterior, right? Do you know what I mean when I say that? It's got a little collar. So yeah, it's got like this extra collar on the exterior. So that ink gets up in there. Like that would bug me, right? That's an annoyance to me. So with that pen, I would choose, I would choose to fill it just, you know, sticking the converter in the ink bottle and filling it that way or whatever. Like I just don't like, I don't like the mess if I have an easy enough option to not have it. So that's my thoughts. But this is also like I bring this, I include this question for a lot of reasons. Like this is also like a beginner 101 question. Like some people just don't know how to do this, right? What do I do with these parts to make them work, right? Well, generally you stick the converter empty on the nib unit, stick the nib unit down into the ink and then twist the converter to pull up the ink and then clean off the nib with a paper towel or something like that. Like these are the things like sometimes we forget we need to discuss these things from time to time, which is why I enjoyed this question so much.

Listener Feedback

Myke Hurley: All right. And our final question comes from Andreas. It says that they loved the interview with Dan Smith. Thank you very much, Andreas. The episode made me want to get a custom nib grind someday. I've been intrigued by stub and italic nibs, but for some reason felt they were only for medium or bigger nibs. My preference is an extra fine with a most fine in some cases. Before I take the plunge into a custom nib grind on a nicer pen, I would like to try out a stub on a cheaper but still decent pen like a TWSBI Eco or Lamy Safari just to see if I like the writing style. So the question is, does this approach make sense? Like will this work for me if I have a stock stub nib and will it be available in a fine or extra fine and give me a decent idea of how quality custom stub nib grind might work for me?

Brad Dowdy: What I would recommend to do is buy a product called the Pilot Plumix.

Brad Dowdy: And if you can't find the Plumix, Pilot also offers their steel nib. I want to say they call it the CI, like cursive italic, but they may just call it a stub. Whatever it is, it's a 0.9 millimeter steel italic style nib. Okay. And this is still wider than what you want. Like in fine, extra fine, that's a whole nother level. That's still going to be like half the size. But this Plumix is generally pretty sharp and it's pretty accurate for the feeling of a sharper grind. I think it's a nib I thoroughly enjoy. And that, if you can find the Plumix, I don't know if the Metropolitan started coming with these nibs or not. But the Plumix is like a very inexpensive pen, like under $10, maybe under $5, but I think under $10.

Brad Dowdy: And try that for feel and writing style. If you jive with that, then I'd maybe consider getting a, probably like a fine steel nib into like a stub, a stub nib grind. If that works for you. So like spend like the $10 on the Pilot Plumix and play with that for a while. Because that's going to give you kind of that best writing experience in that price range just to kind of test it out. Just to see if you like that style. So, you know, that's kind of where I'd lead as opposed to getting like a TWSBI Eco and fine and just getting like a stub put on that. That's different. I will admit that that's a different experience. But you can, that will cost you a total of like $60 to $70 to find out whether you like it or not. Where you can get the Plumix nib for a lower risk and then just to see if you like it to begin with. That's kind of what I'm thinking.

Myke Hurley: All right. So that wraps it up for today's episode. If you'd like to send in your questions to be answered on a future show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag AskTPA. Or you can send an email to hello at penaddict.com. Oh, hello. Hello at penaddict.com is the email address for that. A few times today we spoke about something called Refill. This is Brad's member newsletter. If you go to penaddict.com, you can sign up there. It is my favorite membership newsletter. I have subscribed to a bunch and Refill is the one that I will always, always read without question. Don't tell any of my other friends that, please. Thank you very much. Oh, I'm telling. Don't tell them. I just said don't tell them. Thanks so much to Squarespace and Harry's for their support of this show. If you want to find more about Brad online, as I said, you can go to penaddict.com, knock.co, Dowdyism on Twitter, penaddict on Instagram, and twitch.tv slash penaddict as well. You can find me at imike, I-M-Y-K-E. If you want to find out more about the theme system journal, you go to cortexmerch.com, and you can put your email address in there. And you'll be notified when the product goes back in stock, whenever that may be. Brad, I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to talk about it with you today.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, and I just want to tell people, you know, listen to the Cortex pod if that's something you're interested in, that style of work. Like, we're not going to cover, you know, everything that Myke covers about the theme system on the penaddict because that's not what we do. But, like, it's worthwhile to talk about, you know, building notebooks and how these systems work and why they exist. But to get the real nuts and bolts of that, you should really listen to Cortex. Like I said, it's an excellent podcast. I don't listen to every episode. I'm not a religious listener. But when I do, every time I listen to it, Myke, I get hooked. Like, y'all talk about something that's like, ugh, I should listen to this, like, every time it comes out. And I will overlook that you said part.

Myke Hurley: I will just choose to overlook that for this movie.

Brad Dowdy: Wow, I don't even recall that. So, my apologies. I hate that word as well.

Myke Hurley: It's okay. You said it, but we'll forget it. It was struck from the record. But we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, bud.