The Pen Addict 197/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	197
Title:	Secret Society of Enablers
Release Date:	March 22nd, 2016
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	Ana Reinert
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 197
Audio File:	Audio Episode 197
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 197
Length:	8888 min <br />1.467 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Brad Dowdy: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 197. Today's show is kindly brought to you by Squarespace and Harry's. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Brad Dowdy.

Myke Hurley: What's up, Mr. Hurley? Sorry for the delay this morning. These stinking computers sometimes like to update when you're not ready for them.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, we were a little bit late on the live stream today, which by the way, you should listen live to the show. It's fun. We have a chat room. You can find out more information at Relay.fm slash live. There's a link to go to our schedule so you can find out when the show broadcasts live. And we were a little late today because Brad's computer updated to the new version of OS X without him wanting it to happen. So it was stuck in a bit of a reboot loop, which is even more a shame because we have such an incredible guest today. I know, I know.

Myke Hurley: I know, which is also why you should be in the chat room so you can talk to Anna Reiner. How are you doing today, Anna?

Ana Reinert: Good. Thank you very much.

Myke Hurley: It's been too long. It's always too long. Even if I had you on like every four weeks, it'd be too long.

Ana Reinert: Thanks.

Brad Dowdy: The funny thing now is like you say it's been too long and then we'll be doing this again in three weeks. Exactly. It's like we've changed it and now we're going to keep doing it forever.

Ana Reinert: And then you guys will be tired of me.

Myke Hurley: Never. Can you believe it's only like three, three and a half weeks away, Anna?

Ana Reinert: I know. I can't believe it. I'm super excited.

Atlanta Pen Show

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So we're going to do a bit of a Atlanta pen show primer today later on in the show. But it's sandwiched in between a bunch of great little pen topics. And we have some Anna expert questions at the end of the show. Yes, those were the best. But first off, I need to declare my hate for Brad Dowdy. We may actually not get to episode 200 if he continues being the person that he is. So a couple of days ago, I saw a tweet fly by from Kevin Rose. Kevin Rose is a hero of mine. He was the first podcast that I ever listened to or watched. He was a part of it. Dignation. He ran Dig, which I loved. And he's an investor. He's really just a fantastic person in my eyes. I see a tweet that says, At Dowdyism, any interest in coming on my podcast, DM me. And I can't even tell you the words that I sent to Brad in Slack.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, even the Slack bot was not happy with you, I don't think.

Brad Dowdy: No, no. We have a language filter there. And the Slack bot gets very angry if we start swearing. And I was using some of the worst words possible.

Myke Hurley: So I have used this to my advantage at every turn with Myke.

Brad Dowdy: Keith's bringing it up.

Myke Hurley: Keith's bringing it up. Yeah, so Kevin and I set it up. He actually turned it around really quick. What was that, like Friday? I think that he tweeted me on Friday. And so I DM'd him. And he said, well, how about tomorrow morning? And I couldn't do it Saturday morning. And I said, I'm wide open on Sunday. He said, okay, great, Sunday. So I was like, wow, this is quick. And it went really well. So me and Kevin had a nice chat. As I told Myke, I just call him Rose now. We're on that level. We're buddy buddies like that. I call him Rose. He calls me Dowdy. And we're tight like that now. And Myke loves that.

Brad Dowdy: Is he coming to the pen show? Is he going to stand on your table and help sell your goods? Is he going to do that? That'd be okay by me.

Myke Hurley: That'd be okay by me. But no, but if I ever get up to NYC, maybe I'll have to see if I can take him on the NYC stationary tour, which he wanted to talk about because he's up in New York now and didn't know all the cool places he could go get all the stationary that we're talking about. So it was good. I don't know when it's going to be released. I think he's got a new project with this newsletter and this podcast. It's separate from the other things he's doing. And I think I know the newsletter is only monthly. So I don't know if the podcast is tied in with that as well. Only once a month.

Brad Dowdy: But so it's a little tricky to actually subscribe to the podcast. So I've put a link in the show notes to a website that Kevin set up for his email newsletter called the journal dot email. You can go there. And I think if you sign up, you get an email which has a link to the podcast. But if you just search in your podcast app, so in iTunes or Overcast or Pocketcast or whatever you use for the journal Kevin Rose, you'll be able to subscribe. There's one episode in that feed so far. And I assume that within the next couple of weeks, I'll just be straight up deleting episode two, which has Brad Dowdy. I'm very genuinely I was I'm incredibly jealous, like incredibly jealous. I am so excited and proud because this is like crazy. Kevin Rose is like the man. This is pretty crazy. It's legitimately crazy.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Like I'm interested to see what comes out of this. Not that I'm looking for anything, but I'm just more anxious. Like his newsletter's got 30,000 subscribers on it. So, you know, if I get a link in there, that's that's pretty strong.

Myke Hurley: And we also hit it. We also got a couple other weird just random.

YouTube Video

Brad Dowdy: Oh, this is so strange. So like after the show post last week, we started getting a bunch of links to a YouTube video from Mental Floss. And we've been in the Mental Floss magazine once.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, we've been on the website once in the physical magazine once.

Myke Hurley: Maybe twice on the website. I can't remember. But yeah, they're they're they're good supporters of ours, good fans of ours.

Brad Dowdy: And this video is one of their kind of kind of like a list video by a guy called Myke. I believe you'd say his name, Rignetta, who I really like. He's got a great style. He did a really good XOXO talk one year that I was there. I'll find that and put that in the show notes. It's just a good a good conference talk if you're interested in such things. And the list is 37 bizarre podcasts. Picking the number 37 is bizarre enough on their part. And they basically list a bunch of really weird podcasts like super niche stuff is kind of what they're going for. And we are part of that list. Along with a couple of other stationery shows like Erasable and stuff like that, which is which is cool. I wish that we would have got a little bit more attention like some of the other shows did. Right. We just got like a brief mention. I would have loved for them to dig into the majesty that is the pan addict. But it was nice and weird to see us there. And then in a way that I'm sure came off the back of this, there was a CBC radio article where it was basically like a game for you to guess which podcast is real. So they would like present they present two shows to you. One of them is real. One of them they made up and you have to guess. And I don't understand why this happened. But the one that we are so like the last round, they're both real shows.

Myke Hurley: I know because I used to listen to the Golden Horseshoe Review when we were going to Disney World.

Brad Dowdy: I just it feels a little bit lazy. Like they had the amount of shows that they were looking for. They ran out of ideas. So they just put me, me and you and the Golden Horseshoe Review against each other, even though they're both real. I don't really understand how all of that came to be. But we're now on in two different weird different places this week. So it's been a strange week for the Pan Addict podcast.

Myke Hurley: It has been a strange week. Anna, if you were making up a list of bizarre podcasts that you listen to, do you have do you have like one or two that's just like I would be embarrassed to mention this except Brad's going to make me mention it?

Ana Reinert: Oh, yeah.

Myke Hurley: I kind of had a feeling that what the answers might be. So I felt pretty good about asking that question.

Ana Reinert: You know, I wasn't expecting this, but let me pull up my overcast and I'll let you know.

Ana Reinert: I listened to one. The title of the podcast was unacceptable to iTunes. So they abbreviated it. This one's for the ladies out there. It's called the DBSA podcast. You're welcome to look it up.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Ana Reinert: Um, it is about romance novels and they are hysterical. Amazing. But it is definitely not safe for work.

Myke Hurley: That sounds awesome. Actually, that that no, that's a totally bizarre podcast. That sounds totally awesome.

Ana Reinert: It is totally awesome because they it's it's I started listening to it because I found the blog and they did reviews. It's smart bees. It's smart bees. Trashy books is the title of the blog. So DBSA is a variation of those words, but they wouldn't let them use the B word.

Brad Dowdy: What I love is the artwork for the show. Has it written out on it, though, which I think is fantastic. Like the system wouldn't allow it to be in the title. But yet it's just on the artwork anyway, which is front and center. So I found it on iTunes. I've put it in the show notes for people to go and listen to if they want.

Ana Reinert: But they they interview some of the sort of most famous romance novel authors and they talk about what their favorite books are to read. So if you've ever wanted to read romance novels, they sort of recommend and based on your own person proclivities. So if some people like the prairie, you know, Western romance novels, some people like the urban fantasy vampires and werewolves and stories like that. But so they come each week. It's a different sort of different genres within that category. So it's really fun. And actually, a lot of my friends listen to it, too. And we're like, I didn't ever read romance novels, but now I do.

Myke Hurley: So I don't know that I could have gotten a better answer than that, to be quite honest.

Sexuality Podcast

Brad Dowdy: Well, come on, Brad. You can't just ask a guest this question. You've got to fess up, too, now.

Myke Hurley: You know what? I don't have one right now. And I used to subscribe to it. And let me look up the name. It was either called. Gosh, was it called Heart? It was.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I don't have anything right now. Let me find the name of it. It was basically a sexuality podcast with these women just did an amazing job, you know, talking about different types of things. And I'm totally blanking. It had a heart in the name. Then they changed the title of it. And now it's not currently in my feed. But I will find it before we get out of here and figure out the name. But it's a really, really good podcast. It's really popular right now.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, is it got orange artwork? It was an NPR show.

Myke Hurley: That's actually money? No. Yeah. Okay. No, no, no, no.

Brad Dowdy: All right.

Myke Hurley: I'll find it. I'll find it, though, because it was actually really, really good and really enjoyable and very informative.

Brad Dowdy: To the general public, my probably most embarrassing podcast. I don't listen to this very often, but I pick out the ones that I want to listen to, which is The Steve Austin Show. I am a not-so-much-anymore-closeted-wrestling fan. And The Steve Austin Show is one of the podcasts that I listen to in that vein. Nice.

Myke Hurley: Nice. Yeah. You've kind of hit the wrestling thing once or twice. You've snuck that in, but I didn't realize it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I've become less closeted recently.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So this podcast that I was talking to is actually called The Heart. Theheartradio.org. And I don't know if that's its current iteration. Definitely not. Definitely NSFW. It's on Radiotopia now, it looks like.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, okay. Cool.

Myke Hurley: So, yeah, that's a good one. I actually need to put that back in my queue.

Brad Dowdy: Well, there you go. Cool. We took a weird diversion.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, we did. We did. But I think it was a good diversion. You know, when you have guests on, you want to talk about some different things. But we'll get back on topic right here. Ana, have you ever completely spilled a bottle of ink somewhere in your house? Desk? Floor? Rug? Anything like that?

Ana Reinert: I have at work.

Myke Hurley: I don't know if that's better or worse. It's probably better because maybe you could play it off. Knowing where you work and all of the inks and pens and stuff you have laying around, you could probably get away with that a little bit more than at home.

Ana Reinert: Yeah. And at work, all of our carpet is those, like, big 12 by 12 tiles. So you just pull up your tile and you put it somewhere else.

Myke Hurley: That's amazing. I know exactly what you're talking about. We had those at work. But we had a question last week. Sarah dropped a bottle of Dragon's Napalm on the rug. And we actually got a picture of it this week after the show. It's pretty bad.

Ana Reinert: I had no idea it was, like, cream-colored carpet, too. Boy, that is brutal.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So it looks like she tried to clean it pretty hard. And she was asking for recommendations. And our recommendation was to get new carpets. So she's going to take an even better suggestion and just get a rug to cover that up. So that's probably a good move there.

Myke Hurley: You talked about my ink bottle breaking. Have you ever done that, Myke? Did we talk about that last week?

Brad Dowdy: No. Luckily, never. I always get terrified when I'm inking something in the room here because the carpet's cream. I know one day. Because one day I'm just going to get, like, just a few flecks or something, which is bad. You know, even though it's not let alone spilling a whole bottle.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right.

Ana Reinert: Actually, I just looked at my floor in my studio, my hardwood floors. And it actually looks like a freaking rainbow down here. Yeah. So apparently I spill ink all the time.

Ana Reinert: I bet we could point that out to you. I'm pretty sure that's Kujaku. And I bet that's Black Swan and Australian Roses.

Myke Hurley: Nice.

Ana Reinert: Yeah. I can take a picture. You guys can try to guess what this is down here.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, do it. Do it. Send it. We'll put it in the show notes.

Listener Feedback

Myke Hurley: Speaking of show notes, Myke, what happened after last week? We got all kinds of cool stuff going on with this place.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So our listeners, as I hoped and expected, have taken the mantle of helping us try and build the idea of the new starting point for the show for new listeners. And we've had some great suggestions. I want you to keep sending them in. We're going to go over this at another point. But one of the really good things that have been suggested by a few people is that a bunch of our old episode show notes are on the Wayback Machine, on the web archive. So there's the Wayback Machine of the 5x5 website has a bunch of the show notes in that the feed doesn't and didn't and doesn't on the RelayFM feed. So you can go there and find them. We can maybe try and find some way to incorporate these back in. I don't know how we could do that. But we're going to look into it. But at least for now, if you are, well, I mean, if you're thinking of going back and listening, because if you're listening to the old episodes now, you're not hearing this. So it's not so useful for you. But if you're thinking about going back, because I know actually that some people are now to help us compile our kind of pen addict history for new listeners, you can find the show notes at the Wayback Machine and there will be a link in the show notes of this episode for that.

Myke Hurley: Yep. And one of the listeners recommended who I thought when I thought it was a good idea, who is listening from the beginning, it's a new listener, but they wanted to be up to date on, you know, the current episode. So they didn't miss anything, like if something like was time constrained. So they actually stick in their order of wherever they are and listening through the historic episodes. And then when the new one comes out, they listen to it and then go back to the place where they were. So they kind of have like the most current 10 they've listened to and then are through like episode, you know, 75. So something like that. So I thought that was a good idea. So you can get some of the current stuff.

Brad Dowdy: I don't know how you could keep like that in track. I have much respect for people that can listen to the two different points and work out where they are in that. That's kind of amazing.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I also have much, much respect for people who do amazing artwork of you and me. Right. Because. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We're not the most handsome individuals, but the artwork usually turns out pretty amazing in this case.

Brad Dowdy: By the way, speak for yourself.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah. I knew that was coming.

Myke Hurley: But this one is really cool. A long, long, long time listener and follower. Mia put this out on Instagram and it's just the coolest, coolest link I've seen in a long time of little of show art. And what did you think about this when you saw it?

Brad Dowdy: Oh, man. I'm so happy about this. So it's basically it's mine and Brad's facial hair and glasses is the focus of the artwork next to each other. And it is surprisingly good. Like it's you see it and you're like, yeah, no, that's the two of us, which is kind of amazing because there's no facial features, but it works perfectly. Mia did a great job of capturing my mustache, especially. Absolutely. Yeah. This is fantastic. I want this.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. This is legit good. Yeah. Like I was thinking that too. I was like, I need like this somehow in my life, like either digitized or something like that, because I was actually thinking about getting my haircut and the way that thing is growing in that picture. It makes me want to keep growing it out.

Brad Dowdy: Keep going for it, man. Keep going for it.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. This is awesome. We need some Anna artwork mixed into here. Have you ever had anything like this on or seen anything like this from any of your readers or fans?

Ana Reinert: Well, my icon on Instagram is actually a drawing that my friend Sandy did of me. Oh, nice. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I've seen that one. That's very cool.

Ana Reinert: Yeah. So she Sandy Devaney and I can find a link. She actually has an Instagram of her doodles now. I think it's Sandy doodles, but I will pull that up and put it in the notes.

Myke Hurley: That's awesome. Yeah. A long, long, long time ago, I had a comic artist do some like digital headshots of me that I used for a while. Like it was my Twitter avatars and things like that. Those came out really good. I still use them. I think I remember that. Yeah. Eric Merced. He did the work and I use them from time to time because they're still accurate because they're really good in there. I have a bunch of different sized digital files and things like that. So it's pretty cool.

Brad Dowdy: You could just use that artwork from the Boston Globe though.

Myke Hurley: Everyone reminds me of that. Anytime I ask for like artwork or, you know, like I did the wallpaper things, people just don't hesitate to shoot that to me. They must people. Some listeners must have that like hot length to a shortcut on their keyboard. If I say something, because that picture shows up way too quickly in my feed when I ask for something. Well, you never forget it. So once you see it, you never forget it.

Brad Dowdy: That actually needs a t-shirt is what it needs. No, it doesn't. No one should put that on themselves.

Brad Dowdy: I'd do it. I'm not scared.

Kickstarter Update

Brad Dowdy: I just wanted to mention something. I was looking for Kickstarter today and I saw an update from the Baron Fig Squire project. They're shipping now. They're shipping on time. And I just wanted to mention this because I thought that it was quite cool that they did it. Um, they had like over 1700, uh, packers, the first pen and they're shipping on time.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, uh, that's good. I mean, they, so the one thing that sounds what they did differently than a lot of these, um, other manufacturers that are delayed is they really got their planning on lockdown before they even launched the product as far as, uh, dates and meeting dates and quantities and things like that from their manufacturer. So, um, that's good, good planning on their part and, um, everything executed well. So that, uh, that bodes well. Hopefully it's going to be, uh, uh, as sweet as a pin as it, as it looks in the, uh, in the picture. So I'm, I'm looking forward to getting it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I guess we should have ours relatively soon. They said they're shipping out by backer. We backed real early, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. Because they were on the episode. So.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah. Real early. Like, uh, first day probably.

Brad Dowdy: Yep.

Myke Hurley: So there we go. So did you get your, your field notes, sweet tooth? It's in. No. Really not yet. Well, how about you, Ana? You got the sweet tooth. I can't, I can't help but call it sweet tooth. Sweet tooth. Yeah. Did you get them?

Ana Reinert: Yes, I did. And I actually, I, I waited and I opened them this morning.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I just did that too. I just opened them this morning myself. So let me, let me hear your, your first thoughts on, on what you think about this edition. Just overall. How?

Ana Reinert: Initially I was kind of, hmm, okay. Wasn't like, didn't get super excited, but I started writing in the, uh, the red one.

Myke Hurley: Mm-hmm.

Ana Reinert: And I can't remember what they called this one. Is this a raspberry? Um, but I started writing in it this morning while I was waiting for you to get your computer up. And, uh, um, grabbed a couple of the jelly roll pens. And this bright red paper is so much fun with the opaque gel pens. So if you have a bunch of jelly pens, like I use the, the, uh, opaque white, um, the black and, uh, like a turquoise one. Mm-hmm. And it looks so good. And because the paper is a little bit heavier, it's a 70 pound instead of, I think they were using 60, 65 pound. Mm-hmm. No, no show through at all. So they're kind of fun. And I, I kind of like, I really like blank ones. Mm-hmm. So I don't have a problem with no lines.

Myke Hurley: Do you rip, do you rip a page out? Do you rip a page out yet? I have not. So the perf is really strong in a good way. I mean, it sounds like a, a machine gun rattling off when you rip it out, but it's very clean. So it's good. It's super, super strong perf. And I, I chose the blue one to, to write in. Um, and the fountain pens do really, really well on this paper. I noticed the paper's a little bit rougher and that's not a negative. Like there's just more feedback when you write on it than, you know, some other pages, even like their stock, um, 60 pound paper, um, is a little bit smoother, but there is zero bleed feathering, anything like that. And so what surprised me the most about fountain pen inks on there is you could actually see the sheen, which I would not have considered happening on this page. Um, and just like a standard blue inks, I can see it. Um, the red inks don't show up well on the blue, which doesn't surprise me, but I can completely see the sheen across the whole ink. So, um, the way it's drying on this paper is pretty unique. Um, you know, this isn't a notebook I'm going to use daily. Um, it's just kind of a fun to have. I love the foil stamping on the cover. They did a really good job on that. Um, the style and the color and everything looks good. Um, it's just not a super functional notebook for me. It's just not one I'm going to be plowing through all these notebooks, you know, but the, um, um, what do they call it? The practical applications in the back are fantastic because there's some very passive aggressive things in there that I would normally do with like a post-it note. If you had laying on your desk at your office, like if you put on the refrigerator, like don't eat my lunch again, or you park terribly. There's some really hilarious, um, stuff you would use like ripping where you need to rip a sheet of paper out of a small notebook and leave someone a little passive aggressive a note. I'm, I'm definitely pro pro that.

Ana Reinert: Are they all the same? The practical applications in the red, blue, and yellow.

Myke Hurley: Uh, I don't know. I only looked at the blue one. So I was just reading the ones that were in the back of the blue one.

Ana Reinert: Yeah. You park like an idiot. Knock loudly. I'm upstairs. Bring wine.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Ana Reinert: Egg hiding spots. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: So it's, they, they took into account the, uh, the removable paper aspect of it. I would like, I, you know, I, you know, we always say this about field notes, Myke, and, and we do this all the time. It's like, I'd be okay to see this like in a regular edition, you know, the full, full perforated, um, notebook, because you never get that.

Ana Reinert: I actually, the colored paper, I wish I had gotten the sweet tooth edition when I started the, um, rock your handwriting challenge, because this paper would have been really fun for that. Um, cause I actually really liked the colored paper.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. And I think it does good with the gels. The only thing I have not had good luck with on just in my small testing of what I had at hand was, um, drawing pens, like the plastic tip pens. They don't like this paper very much. Um, it like a micron. Yeah. Yeah. It feels kind of, it makes it feel even more plasticky. Like you can, or waxy almost feeling with it. Um, it felt a little bit different than, and then everything else worked fine. Um, which tip size were you using? Uh, zero one. So very, very fine. Yeah.

Ana Reinert: I was using a zero one too. And it just, um, I think it papers a little bit more absorbent. I'm wondering if maybe like a point, an 0.2 or the 0.5 might work a little bit better or like a Sharpie, Sharpie pen.

Rock Your Handwriting

Myke Hurley: Yep. Very much so. You said something just a second ago and I meant to put this in the show notes. Tell us about the rock your handwriting thing you're doing. I've been following you on Instagram.

Ana Reinert: Um, it was a challenge. Um, uh, Boho Berry. Who does a lot of the bullet journaling, uh, projects. Um, she, and I think three or four other bullet journalists, um, people, uh, set up a challenge to basically get people excited to practice their handwriting. Um, it started last month and they did just like a, a 30 day challenge with just little prompts for each day, um, just to practice your handwriting. Um, and, um, so this was the second month. And so I decided to just jump in and start the second month. Um, and so I've been doing it every day. Um, which for me was, I was trying to figure a way to do it. Um, that wasn't going to be super overwhelming. So, um, I grabbed a field notes, um, which is, you know, three by five, very small. I thought I can commit myself to doing a handwriting practice that was only, you know, three and a half by five, a little tiny bit. Um, and something I could do literally like at lunch, you know, or something like that. And, um, it's just been really fun and, um, really inspiring and has gotten me back into kind of doing a little bit more drawing, a little bit more playing with tools and, um, just sort of working regularly. So it's been, I've really enjoyed it. And that's, um, just, I think it's that, um, the creative challenge thing. Like once you get yourself into a habit of doing something, whether it's writing, drawing, sketching, um, journaling, whatever, if you can sort of get past that first two weeks, I really think that's sort of the big hurdle. If you can just get through the first two weeks of doing something regularly, um, then it starts to be that thing of like, oh, it's, uh, it's three o'clock and I haven't done that thing yet that I said I was going to do today. You know, um, you get excited about doing it and that's been really great, I think. And I've gotten really excited about doing it.

Brad Dowdy: So yeah, it's been really nice to see, uh, on your Instagram. Thanks. Not even so much to read whilst there is interesting stuff in there. I just like looking, you know, cause it's very pretty. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I've always liked your handwriting anyway. Um, the, the way you style your letters, just your natural handwriting. Um, like when you're trying to, when you're doing just like some very basic lettering, something, you know, you're just throwing out there real quick. I've always enjoyed seeing that. So keep it up.

Ana Reinert: Thank you.

Myke Hurley: Maybe Myke, you need to join in the hashtag when you, uh, when you get your lettering box.

Brad Dowdy: If it ever arrives, should be arriving today. Actually. Very exciting.

Ana Reinert: Oh, is, is that the, is that what you're waiting for from art snacks? Yes. Lettering box. I'm so jealous. I missed the opportunity. I was, I waffled about subscribing to the lettering box thinking I have so many things that I'm not sure if I need anything else. So I was like, I'll wait. No, I'll subscribe. No, I'll wait. No, I'll subscribe. And then I'm like, well, sold out. You're screwed.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. There's, there's always good, good lettering stuff to go around in. You know, like we talk about too, we get all these, these toys, but really all you just need is a hotel ballpoint and a back of an envelope. Right. Yeah.

Ana Reinert: Absolutely.

Brad Dowdy: I just need somewhere to start. Right. Like I don't have anywhere to start. A kick in the butt. Yeah.

Ana Reinert: Well, and I, um, the Boho berries there, um, has like even her very first, the first challenge that they did for rock your handwriting, which was really like, just write the lowercase alphabet, write the uppercase alphabet. Um, you know, just to get, you know, see what it looks like. And then some of the exercise, you know, just the little steps that they have. Um, so that by the time you get to the 30th a day to see if you've had, if your handwriting has changed at all, or if the shape of your letters or, you know, just getting yourself to practice and slow down just a little bit, if that helps get your shapes more even or more consistent.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, that's awesome. I, I need to get in on this too. Just, just to, it's always about using things for me. And sometimes I need that little extra, you know, impetus to, to break out all the tools and just sit down and take 30 minutes of quiet time and focus on something like that. That's, that's what I'm missing out of my life these days. Um, a lot of times I get wrapped up in other things and don't sit down and have just 30 minutes of focus, you know, quiet brain time to just work on things like that, which would be quite enjoyable.

Myke Hurley: Another thing I got in the, I got in the mail this week and, uh, Anna, you mentioned it to me, the black wing volume Steinbeck. Did you get yours in?

Ana Reinert: Arrived. Um, mine arrived yesterday, but I stopped, forgot to stop at the post office to pick it up. So I'm really mad. They're there and I don't have them in my hands and I'm not going to work today. And my post office box is right next to my office. So I'll have to wait until Wednesday.

Myke Hurley: Nah. Yeah. Well, they're, they're pretty awesome. I will say. Um, and Myke, did you see these online?

Brad Dowdy: Uh, I did. Yes.

Myke Hurley: So what do you, what do you think? I know you're not like the super pencil, super wooden, wooden pencil guy, but what do you think about seeing something like this?

Brad Dowdy: So I know that everybody's really freaking out about these. Um, I feel so terrible. It just, it's, it's just a black pencil. I don't. Yeah. Don't feel terrible. I don't get it. I don't get it. I know that, that maybe I'm miss, I feel like I'm missing something, you know? Um, but I think some of these lettering additions have been really cool. Like I love the guitar one and the one that they did last time with like the movie thing, but this is, this one's just all black.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So I have them and I have all the additions, uh, since the beginning and this is the worst looking one.

Brad Dowdy: Okay, good. I'm glad you agree with me because this, I tell you, I tell you why I feel this way. Um, okay. So Tony is saying in the chat room, there's a new lead formation. I get, okay. This is what I'm saying. I get that there might be some stuff going on, right? I'm sure they're doing some crazy things, you know, like it's, but I'm, I'm judging them purely on the way they look because that's all I have to go on. And these don't look as cool.

Myke Hurley: There's a huge, but coming in with this one. So they don't look nearly as good. Um, I don't like the all black barrel with the stamped, the painted over stamping of the Palomino black wing, like the traditional, the, the 602 they redid with the, um, with the gray and the gold gold stamping. Um, that's still the best looking black wing to me, not counting the, um, the, the volumes additions, the, the guitar one, the wooden one, um, both look better than anything else that they've ever done. I don't like the glossy shiny. I don't like the glossy paint job next to the shiny black ferrule. It doesn't match well to me, but that said, I didn't buy them for how they look. I mean, I think in general they look great, but yeah, it's just a solid black pencil, but I bought them for the, the graphite core.

Brad Dowdy: You see, I have no idea about any of this, right? Cause I'm just not a woodcase guy. So what's going on here then? Why? One thing, what's so different in two, like, how do you innovate pencil lead? It feels so out of it to me.

Myke Hurley: What they did, what the way that they have the black wing product line set up right now, there's three lead grades. Um, there's a very soft, a medium, soft, and then a somewhat firm. This one is designed to be firmer than their firmest one, which is the 206. So they don't have this core on offer in any of their other lineup. Um, and most of their leads are really soft in, in comparison, which is why I like the 602 the most. It's the firmest of the bunch. This one's firmer. It's just as dark. So when you have a firmer lead, the, um, the point retention is much, much better. Um, you can keep a sharper point for a longer time and sharpen fewer. Um, whereas like an artist would like, you know, a softer lead that can do shading and different things and not always have like a firm tip. This is a great writing pencil. Um, which is what it was, it was designed around. So that's what has me excited about these. I could do with or without the black, um, all black and not, and I love my all black pens. Um, and I'm not saying this looks bad, but it's, it's, I definitely like the style of the other three better, but the writing, the actual writing with it is really, really exceptional. And, uh, I I'm enjoying this, this pencil very much so far.

Myke Hurley: So we'll see, I will see, uh, how it, how it continues to grow. And if they, if they get this, um, core into other lineups, that was what, uh, the guys on erasable were talking about how the volume so far, the first three additions were basically a rotation of the three existing cores. What are they going to do? Are they just going to keep rotating these through? Um, so every, every third one will be the 602 core. Um, and they went and introduced something, uh, completely different, which, um, I think got everyone pretty excited.

Brad Dowdy: So I can imagine it, it being exciting. Like if this is your thing, like, I don't really get it cause I'm just not that this is just not my, my thing. Uh, but you know, a new thing like this is cool. And so that's why I guess people are super excited about this edition where like I look at it on the face of it and I'm like, this looks like a step back because the other ones have been so cool looking, but yeah, I get it.

Myke Hurley: So which, which lead grade do you prefer out of the black wings on it? Do you have a, do you have a strong preference or not really?

Ana Reinert: Um, I've preferred the pearl up until this point, but I'm pretty excited about, um, trying out the Steinbeck just because I do actually like, um, a firmer, like harder lead, um, especially for, um, sketching just because I tend to, um, paint or draw over my sketches. So I want the lines to be really light so that it's just a rough, um, drawing that then I can go over. So, yeah.

Myke Hurley: And, and actually these lines are darker than I would anticipate. I order, um, a lot of H grade leads up to about maybe four, um, has been about as hard as I've gone and which are obviously very, very light and very firm. This is not a light lead at all. So, um, but it's the point retention is definitely better than like the 602. You can actually get, um, as you're rotating the pencil, you can actually see a point starting to create like right in the center. So it doesn't like wear down completely to where it's just like at a complete angle. Um, it's like going around the center of the pencil, which tells you it's, it's pretty firm.

Ana Reinert: Good. I'm, I'm really excited to see it to, um, to actually use them. Um, and I actually kind of like the sort of all black edition. Um, a couple of my friends immediately saw it and said, it's the man in black. So, um, it's, it's actually the edition that, um, got me to subscribe. Oh, cool. I had not subscribed up until this point. That's the first. So this was the one that I said, and I think to your point up until this point, they've just used their, their core leads, um, with just basically different paint jobs. And for me, that wasn't enough to get me to subscribe.

Myke Hurley: Yep.

Ana Reinert: Um, I've pretty much bought every edition, but wasn't inclined necessarily to subscribe. But this one was the one that I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm willing to subscribe. This is legitimately a different, um, lead formulation. And you guys are doing some interesting things.

Myke Hurley: So I'm in. Yeah. And this was the first one I actually bought extras of, and it wasn't because of the design. It was because of the lead and, you know, is it going to end up in other things?

Ana Reinert: You needed to have 24.

Myke Hurley: That's right. And I wanted to give some away too. So I bought a bunch of extras. I actually bought two extra boxes, but, uh, I want to give one entire box away and then I'll have some extras in there. So, so look for that at some point somewhere, but I just want to mention the irony is not

Brad Dowdy: lost on me that, uh, I'm excited for simple color field notes books because of the paper and the perforation inside. Like the irony of that is not lost on me, right? I don't get the pencils because they're one color, but they have something different on the inside. It's just where my, my feelings lie. But like, so the irony of that is not, it's not lost on me. Pencil people.

Pen Show

Myke Hurley: All right. Well, let's get into some of this pen show stuff because it is so close. It's not even funny. Um, can almost smell it. We can almost smell it. And, um, but let's, let's talk about one of our friends first. Um, the, the always excellent smelling Harry's. Oh, nice, nice segue.

Brad Dowdy: This episode is brought to you by Harry's. We're wrapping up the third month, uh, Harry's anniversary month. And if you sign up to be a new customer of Harry's today, you can try three of their expertly crafted five blade German razors along the handle and shave cream. For just $10. Everybody knows good thing coming threes, right? So do Harry's stuff. Harry's make their own blades, right? These blades that I'm talking about, the blades that we always talk about on this show. They are great quality. They're German engineered five blade cartridges. You're not going to get cuts and razor burn. They're going to give you a close, comfortable shave. You'll be able to change them out frequently because they're so well priced. Harry's offer a high quality shave at about half the price of other big brand blades. And because you'll be able to change the blade frequently, because it's not costing you an arm and a leg to get new ones, you'll get an even better shave every time you do. Over one million people have switched to Harry's because on average an everyday shaver saves $150 a year on blades because they use Harry's. They'll ship them for free to your front door. And that starter set that I mentioned, I'll just go over it again. And you will get yourself a razor, moisturized and shaved cream and three razor blades. It's usually $15, but you can get it for $10 if you use my coupon code PENADDICT at checkout with your first purchase. You'll get $5 off your first order. That's H-A-R-R-Y-S dot com and the code PENADDICT at checkout for a special $5 off. Thank you so much to Harry's for their support of this show and Relay FM.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, and once again, it'll be Harry's Fest. It'll be best in our hotel room at the Atlanta PEN Show, won't it? You bet. You bet it will. We got a huge kick out of that last year. It was like, oh my God. There's Harry's smelling products everywhere. It's like a Harry showroom in Atlanta. All right. So who's ready for this PEN Show? I am more than ready. I need it to be here now. What about you guys? Yeah, I'm emotionally ready now.

Myke Hurley: What about you, Anna?

Ana Reinert: I reserved what I think now has become my official Atlanta PEN Show car.

Myke Hurley: Which is what? I can't remember last year.

Ana Reinert: I will once again be driving around town in a Fiat 500. Yes.

Myke Hurley: Excellent choice. I forgot you did that last year. I still have Casey's nuclear green car stuck in my head as the car of the PEN Show last year. But unfortunately, we won't get to see Casey's car this year. So we'll just roll in your Fiat all over town. That sounds pretty awesome. There we go.

Ana Reinert: We'll see how many people we can cram in the Fiat.

Myke Hurley: We should do that and take a picture of it. Although we won't send it to your rental people.

Ana Reinert: I don't know. Last year, by the time the PEN Show was over, there was some weird kind of funky mold growing in the back, in the trunk of the Fiat. That when I dropped it off, I'm like, I don't know how that got back here.

Myke Hurley: Oh, man. That's awful.

Ana Reinert: When I dropped it off. And the lady's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, I don't know what this is. And she looked at it and she's like, ew. I don't either. I'm like, y'all need some carpet cleaner back here.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah. You didn't spill any ink back there. That wasn't like some like.

Ana Reinert: No. And actually, I found.

Myke Hurley: Rouge hematite or something.

Ana Reinert: No. And I actually discovered it, I think this, maybe the second day when I went to get the birthday cake. Did you hear about this? I went over to the grocery store to get a birthday cake for the.

Myke Hurley: It was Jim Rouse, I believe. Yeah.

Ana Reinert: For his birthday. And I went to open the boot to put the cake in. And I looked at there and I'm like, I'm not putting the cake back here. This is gross. So I had to like figure out how to like fit it in the front seat on the floor and not like tip this giant sheet cake.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Ana Reinert: Luckily, you know, those fiats are a little more spacious than you think they'd be.

Myke Hurley: Nice. That's awesome. All right. So let's, let's talk about kind of the schedule a little bit. And then we'll kind of get into some details. So the show itself is, is the Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. What is that? The 15th, I believe. 15th of April is the Friday that the show starts. But I'm getting in town Thursday. Anna, I think you're coming in Thursday.

Ana Reinert: I'm coming in Thursday.

Myke Hurley: Thursday. You and Bob, Myke, you're flying in Thursday. Yeah. Cause I hope you're picking me up. Yeah. We haven't discussed that. So I haven't looked at your flight schedule. So, um, yeah, I guess I'll, I guess I am picking you up. Yeah, you are. But since so many things start happening on Friday and so many people are coming in on Thursday, I wanted to do something a little bit different and have a place for us to gather Thursday night for anyone who was showing up and, um, Jimmy, the show promoter. Um, if you hear me refer to Jimmy a lot, that's who he is. He's, he puts on the show, um, here in Atlanta. Um, he has been more like bend over backwards, helpful in, in trying to hook us up for anything we want to do whenever we want to do it, wherever we want to do it. So tomorrow I'm actually meeting him at the show hotel to see about moving rooms for, from where we did the podcast last year was going to be kind of our meetup room too. Um, and then show after party room, we're going to try to get a bigger room. Um, so I'm going to check out the, he, he won't book the bigger room unless I come look at it first, which is really nice of him. But the good thing is that bigger room, number one, it's bigger. Number two, it's right next to the bar. So that's pretty cool. So starting Thursday night, that's the plan is to have just a kind of a runoff space. A lot of us hang out in the bar, but it's not the hugest bar compared to, especially compared to other pin shows that a lot of people have been to. Um, so we'll have this room with just tables and chairs where we can all spread out and talk and try pins and play with inks and all kinds of things like that. So that's a little bit different. We have a little Thursday night, totally unofficial thing, but we'll actually have a physical space for us to hang out at. And then Friday starts the show. A lot of people have been asking, um, what time they can get into the show since a lot of people will be there Thursday. And even though the show site says noon, um, Jimmy will let people, I talked to him specifically about this. He said he will let people in early to kind of, uh, mingle, go around, you know, understanding that not all the vendors might be not be set up at this time. He said, but if anyone wants to go in and start looking around, he'll let them in probably as soon as like nine o'clock in the morning. So, uh, that'll be, that'll be good. And then this is your key.

Brad Dowdy: Like if you are in town and there are any specific booths that you want to get to for something, or, you know, maybe you want to get some nib work done or something like that. That's the time to get it done.

Myke Hurley: Yes. Yeah. And we're going to talk about that specific thing, um, here in a minute, um, because you went off the rails first thing out the gate Friday morning. So, uh, we're going to talk about that. It was, it was pretty awesome. So then Friday night, there is a show after party, um, at the hotel. It's going to be sponsored by Goulet pins and knock. Um, I know Brian is, is really excited about coming to the Atlanta pin show this time. Him and Rachel are coming from Goulet pins. They're bringing their videographer, um, with them. I know they're going to talk to a bunch of people there. I know Anna, you have time set up to talk with them. Uh, Jeff and I are going to take them over to knock one day. So we're going to do a bunch of stuff with the Goulet is doing some video and, uh, things like that, um, with them. And then they're working with Jimmy on the party for Friday night and knock is going to sponsor that as well. So that should be cool. Like last year, um, Anna got the, uh, the great joy of driving through Atlanta traffic. At 6 PM in a straight up monsoon from the hotel over to knock. What did that take us? Like an hour to get there when it should have taken us like 20 minutes.

Ana Reinert: It was, yeah, it did take a while. It was, you were getting stressed out, but it wasn't when, when all was said and done, it was no big deal. Everybody got there. We were, we were all a little damp, but we had a good time.

Brad Dowdy: Most of us were in a bus anyway.

Myke Hurley: So yeah, the bus, the bus was, uh, one of the best things we did last year, but in lieu of all that this year, instead of taking people off site, Hey, how about let's keep them all at the hotel? And, uh, which Jimmy's happy about. I'm happy about. Um, and everyone, um, won't have to, to fight any traffic to get over to knock. Plus this year, I don't think we could hold them. I mean, we blew the doors off knock last year as it was. And I know we wouldn't be able to hold them this year because our space hasn't grown, but got a bit, got a bit sweat in there. Got a little bit, a little bit sauna ish in there. Um, the rain didn't help because we couldn't really mingle outside. So anyway, that's Friday night at the show. Um, Saturday is another just regular show day until the evening. We're going to shoot for around six o'clock to do the Panatic live recording episode number 200. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: So this part is like for everyone. Cause obviously I know that what we're doing here is, uh, for the vast majority of the audience is making them feel incredibly jealous, uh, of the show. Uh, but there will obviously be, uh, episode 200. We are going to be planning on streaming live. We did it last time. We'll try and do some tests this time to make sure we have everything, uh, dialed in. Right. But we're planning on streaming live. Uh, it will be three of us. Um, and we'll be talking about the pen show. We'll be talking about the things that we've come across. Uh, all of the, we'll be talking about giving a kind of a wrap up and a good feel for the atmosphere. So hopefully we'll be able to create an episode for you, which will make you feel like you're part of the pen show as well. Um, this will obviously be broadcast in audio, uh, and the video will be recorded, uh, for all of the Kickstarter backers who wanted to get the video. Um, and then afterwards we'll be doing a kind of show and tell of the stuff that the three of us have seen and purchased, um, over the, the kind of the days prior to a couple of days prior. Uh, and that will go out for the Kickstarter backers as part of the overall video package as well.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So that's hoping to be in this bigger room that I'm hopefully going to get set up tomorrow too, which is so convenient just to everything. I'm really hoping this room is the right size. Especially if we want to have an audience this time. Yeah. So we're going to have an audience and we're also going to have an after party, which we didn't last year either. So we're going to do that hopefully in the same room. Um, we've got some sponsorships. Um, I've got some artwork in process for that. It's going to be kind of a pretty, it's going to be a pretty cool thing. Um, and then, um, Sunday is just recovery. I mean, that's a big waffle house day. Um, it's a late morning at the show. Um, and it's just kind of a chill day. Um, everyone, uh, kind of wrapped up everything on Sunday and in a more relaxed manner, got some sleep, got some sleep in. So that's kind of the general schedule. Um, I guess what I really wanted to talk about with this, um, and especially with you, Anna is kind of what did you take from last year that you're going to do similarly or the same this year? Was there any big no-nos that you did last year coming to this show? Or was there something that was super awesome that you're going to make sure to do again? Kind of, kind of what was your, what's your plan this year relative to how things went last year?

Ana Reinert: I, um, what was so great about last year was the opportunity to meet so many people, um, both vendors and, um, people who, um, I knew from online. Um, so it was so great to just meet people and talk to people and, um, swap pens and share inks and experiences. And for me, that was really the best part of it. So for as much as I'm looking forward to an opportunity to look for and buy, um, you know, potentially buy some new pens, um, I'm really excited to just meet and talk with people and hang out and see all my friends, people that I met last year, meet new people this year. Um, you know, get to see you guys again. Um, you know, we had such a great time. Um, it's been a while since I've been to a Waffle House. They don't have them around here.

Myke Hurley: That's a highlight. I'm not even joking.

Ana Reinert: Craving my skillet.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, that's right.

Ana Reinert: So, but, uh, yeah, no, so I'm just, I'm just really excited to be there. And, um, and actually for me, like in retrospect, I, um, I did get a couple pens that I liked. Um, I got a couple pens that, um, you know, a year later I'm kind of tepid about. So I think again, you know, in the, um, excitement of a pen show, I think we get, you get wrapped up in, um, there's so many things to see. And so, you know, I love this. I love this. I love this. You know, you get all excited and you end up maybe buying more than, than what you intended to buy. So I think, again, this goes back to, I think you've said it before, kind of going with a list, knowing what it is that you're really looking for. Um, you know, making sure that if you have a budget, stick with your budget. And it's not that I spent money I didn't have. Um, but just being sure that, you know, you don't go home with something that you're like, oh, well, it's nice, but it wasn't exactly what I had in mind. I bought it because maybe it was, um, something I thought I might want, but I got a good price on it, you know? And it's not that I can't, there's certainly things that I have that I can resell or give to someone else who may really enjoy it. I actually have one. I think I might give you, um, if you're interested in it.

Myke Hurley: I'm always interested.

Ana Reinert: Um, but yeah, so, you know, it's, you know, and they were opportunities that, um, I got to try some things that I've never gotten to try. Um, I had a great time, uh, like Franklin Kristoff getting to try all of their pens and all of their different nibs, getting to get custom, a custom grind, um, from Myke Masayamo. That was awesome. Um, just getting to meet a lot of people. So.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. One thing I would add on the budget and listing is have some stuff that you're looking to get. Um, this, and I think this applies for any pen show really. And, but I would say to have a little bit of extra, um, because you might come across something like last time, uh, I came across the sailor pro gear, uh, because I can't, I think it was, you had bought one Brad in all orange. Right. I saw it, fell in love with it and now it's my favorite pen, but that I wasn't planning on buying it. Um, so, you know, that, that would be my thing is don't spend all the money that you have in the world, like have a budget, but maybe don't earmark every cent, you know?

Pen Reviews

Myke Hurley: Yeah. For, for specific things. So what, what other takeaways did you have from last year, Myke, that you're looking at doing similarly or different to this year? Anything? Uh, more caffeine is going to be.

Brad Dowdy: More lunch. That's definitely in the cards. Yeah. Making sure we eat lunch correctly at good times, um, and have good lunches. We didn't do that last time so much. Um, I'm a little bit more prepared for some of the things I was unprepared for. Uh, just the idea of like how crazy everything was going to be, even though everything is going to be dialed up again this time. Uh, but I'm just, more than anything, I'm just excited to see everyone. Um, I was blown away last year at the, uh, getting to meet people in person and seeing the community. It was such a nice thing. And, you know, the, the kind of the aspect of everyone just sharing, that was kind of the big key thing for me. It was just the sharing of everything. Uh, everybody was so nice with their time. People were, you know, handing out their stuff for people to try. Uh, it was just fantastic. And I cannot wait to see all of that again. I, I think at a bigger scale, um, I think there's everything that we saw last year, uh, is going to translate into more and more people, uh, being there from the pen addict community this time around. So that's what I'm really excited about is seeing how that's going to translate. And then in the years to come as well, uh, I think the more and more that we do this and the more and more that we make this a thing and we talk about it on this show, uh, I, you know, I know people, friends of mine that are coming to the show this time that didn't come last time, uh, because of their, their new love of the pen addict world. So I'm, I'm sorry. I'm just, I can't wait. Like it cannot come soon enough for me now.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. And I'll just, you know, add onto what both of y'all said. This is, this is, um, the best like social event I have all year. I could almost care less about the pen show. The pen show is the vehicle to get us all in the same place, but just hanging out with everyone, talking with everyone, having fun, um, you know, sharing pens and paper and talking about silly things and going out to dinner or meeting up at the waffle house and seeing people that, you know, you only get to see maybe once a year if you're lucky. Um, and I don't know what to expect. Like, as far as people wise, it seems like it's going to be busier, right? I mean, it has to be, but, um, we were so, you know, had our socks knocked off last year. Um, you, you want to say it's hard to top, but this, I keep warning Jimmy. I was like, I feel like it's going to be more people this year than last year. It's got to be right.

Brad Dowdy: I can't see how it's not.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I'm trying to make sure we have enough room, um, in the building to handle everyone who's coming, but it's just going to be, it's just a really, really cool hangout. Um, and like I said, the pen show is in itself is awesome. And Jimmy does a great job with all the vendors and getting everyone there. And you'll get to see a bunch of people that you've heard us talk about online. If you've never been out to a pen show before. Um, but really just meeting the people and, um, and hanging out with the community and, um, just really chatting and relaxing and talking with, with other people is, it was far and away the highlight last year. Um, you know, way more so than, than purchasing any pen or ink would be, um, just hanging out with people and sharing those experiences with others. I mean, those are, those are memories you take with you that it's not a fleeting thing. I mean, I still think about last year's show, you know, on a weekly, if not daily basis, it was just that, that much fun last year. And, uh, I fully anticipate this year is going to be even better.

Brad Dowdy: All right, let's get out of jealousy corner. Um, we have, we have some, uh, some great stuff coming up on the other side of this break. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the simplest way for anyone to create a beautiful landing page website or online store. You can start building your own website today at squarespace.com and use the code ink, I N K at checkout to get 10% off your first purchase. We've easy to use tools and templates. Squarespace helps you capture every detail of what drives you because if it's worth the effort, it's worth sharing with the world. I love that line. So many people these days have ideas, projects, things that they want to do. They want to sell stuff. They want to start a blog. They want to show off their photography and their artwork. These things are important to all of us. You want tools. You want a site that is going to help you express that with the minimum amount of work from your site. You know, you're having to learn things you don't know how to do and having it all supported. And that's what's so great about Squarespace. Anybody can build a great looking website. It doesn't matter what your skill level is. You don't need to know code. You're given the tools to create something that is easy to maintain, easy for you to look after. They have state-of-the-art technology to power your site and to help you build it. Squarespace take care of the security, the stability, the hosting. They're trusted by millions of people around the world because of this. All of their site templates look fantastic. They have 24-7 support in case you need it. They're there for you. It's brilliant. I've used it for so many projects. We still use it at RelayFM. I know Brad uses Squarespace for all of his stuff. If you sign up for Squarespace now, you'll get a free domain name if you sign up for a year, which is fantastic. So it gives you everything in one little package so you can choose exactly what you want your site to be called. Their plans start at just $8 a month and you get all of that. You can sign up for a free trial today with no credit card required. So you can start playing around and see that Squarespace is right for you. Go to squarespace.com for that. When you decide to sign up, make sure that you use the offer code INK. You'll get 10% off your first purchase and show your support for the Panadic podcast. Thank you to Squarespace for the continued support of this show and RelayFM.

Myke Hurley: All right, Ana. We have a bunch of questions here for you. Ask TPA and ask Ana. We should have hashtagged ask Ana when I did it in the Slack channel yesterday or the day before. But I want to get your opinion on a lot of these. And the first one's from Ulyssa on Twitter. She asked, do you have any suggestions for lightweight fountain pens outside of Lamy Safaris and Pilot Prairie's? So what do you think, Ana?

Ana Reinert: I looked through some of my reviews because I did do some weights on some of the pens I've reviewed in the past. And I only found a couple that came in a little bit lighter. The Lamy logo is one gram heavier than a plastic Pereira.

Ana Reinert: And then what was the other one that I found? Oh, the Parker IM Premium.

Myke Hurley: Okay, I didn't think about that one.

Ana Reinert: I think I emailed you about it this morning. Yeah. But it's the one that's sort of the modern vacuumatic. I got you.

Myke Hurley: Yep, yep, yep.

Ana Reinert: And it's actually the same weight as the Pereira. It's a little bit smaller size pen. It's aluminum as well. So it's not super heavy. I'm not as big a fan. If I were to recommend one to someone who was looking for a lighter, smaller fountain pen, I'd probably recommend the Lamy logo first. Unless you really liked the look of the Parker. Just because the flow on the Parker, I find, is not as consistent. Lamy's consistently perform really well. That Parker, I'm still not... I find that it kind of dries out very easily. I like it. I try to use it. But it's consistency. Like, I can leave a Lamy, sit for three months, pick it up, and it writes that Parker, if I leave it sit for a month, I end up having to clean it out and clean it out and clean it out and then try to get it to work. So it's just not as consistently usable. But, yeah, everything else I found was kind of some variation of, like, a less expensive plastic pen, which is, I think, would probably have as many sort of technical issues. You know, like the candy. Who makes the plastic candy?

Myke Hurley: Oh, Sailor.

Ana Reinert: Sailor candy.

Myke Hurley: Sailor clear candy, yeah.

Ana Reinert: Which works okay. I mean, it's not... But, I mean, you know, at that point, you might as well get a varsity. Yeah, totally agree. Or the platinum Preppy, which is a lightweight, works great. It's just not very pretty.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I guess the Plaisir, kind of the step up from the Preppy, has a super lightweight aluminum barrel. The Pereira is still kind of the, like, the king of the lightweights. I guess the Kaweco Sports, the classic sports, are obviously super light, but that's a pocketable pen. It's even a little bit shorter. If I get full length, it's at least the size of the Pereira, though. So those are kind of the... I didn't think about the Plaisir. That's a pretty light pen that writes well. I did enjoy that one a lot. Because when you're talking about the lightness of the Pereira, that's getting way down there. I mean, it's, to me, like, Lamy Safari and Pilot Preira, as far as lightness goes, don't even seem close to me at all. The Pereira is so light. It's closer to the Kaweco classic. But I think that's some good suggestions for sure. I couldn't really think of anything outside of that. When you start getting into, like, the TWSBI Eco or the Pilot Metropolitan, those are much heavier pens, you know, when you're relating them to a Pereira or Safari. So, you know, if light weights your thing, those are probably ones to skip.

Ana Reinert: Yeah. And, I mean, I have pretty small hands. And I do notice when pens are sort of really wide or very heavy. But if they're nicely balanced, I don't really have an issue with them. I mean, even, like, the Karas Customs ink, which is a fairly wide barrel, fairly heavy pen, I actually find fairly comfortable to use. I always look at it and I think, I can't possibly hold that in my hand. It looks like I'd have to, like, use two hands to use it because it's so much bigger than most of the pens that I use. And it's actually quite comfortable because it's so nicely balanced. So, in some instances, I mean, unless it's, there's actually, like, you know, you have arthritis or some sort of hand issues that specifically limit kind of how much weight you can carry. In some cases, it's just if you've, if the previous pens you've used were just poorly balanced or if you're trying to post a heavy cap on a pen that's not very well balanced, your experience is with a heavier pen that may have kind of tainted your experiences.

Myke Hurley: Well, I did want to point out that Carrie in the chat room did mention that Nakayas are very lightweight and I can confirm that. I just thought we'd throw that out there.

Brad Dowdy: It's not really an option in this.

Ana Reinert: Slightly different price point.

Brad Dowdy: You know, at that point, why don't you just have something custom made out of carbon fiber? Like, yeah.

Myke Hurley: Very true. Very true. So, Todd Peppercorn wants to know, where is my Lamy 2000? And I'm guessing he means the blue Lamy 2000. I don't know. This was kind of a weird tweet and the way it ran off. But I think he's meaning, like, we were teasing that Lamy 2000 limited edition. This is a big anniversary for them. And I haven't seen any more on that. You know, I don't know where else to take this question other than that, except I will be super anxious to see what happens with this, when and if it does launch this year. I guess nothing, no news is really coming out. I haven't really been trolling the internets for all the Lamy 2000 news, but I'm dying to see that. So, that's definitely at the top of my watch list, Todd. So, as soon as I know something, you will know something. Now, this next question from Chuck, who is the shop rat at Nock, who that's my, that's what I call Chuck. He's a good friend, a good local friend in Atlanta that stops by the shop about once a week. This was an awesome question for Ana. And you put together some things here. And Chuck wanted to know about flex nibs for lefties. I guess, number one, Ana, can you talk about the challenges that flexing for lefties is? And then secondarily, I guess, talk about what works well for you.

Ana Reinert: Okay. First off, if I'm going to see you in Atlanta, we can do a little demo together. And I can actually show you what I do.

Myke Hurley: You will see Chuck. Chuck lives maybe 10 minutes from the hotel and booked a room for the whole weekend. So, that's how much you're going to see Chuck.

Ana Reinert: So, we're going to be some drinking and some lettering going on.

Myke Hurley: Yes, he cut to the chase. So, good move by Chuck.

Ana Reinert: Awesome. First off, somebody had asked, had mentioned also in the Slack that I am, and I do overwrite normally. Like, my hand is above my writing. And I think, Myke, you and I have both talked about it. We both do it. But in order to do flex pen lettering as a lefty, you're going to have to go below the baseline. You're going to have to come from below. Otherwise, you're going to end up with ink splatters everywhere, and you're going to break nibs and splatter ink on people, and it's not going to be pretty. And so, it's basically calligraphy and flex nib writing is, you kind of have to think of it more like drawing than writing. It's a different thing.

Brad Dowdy: It's a different practice.

Ana Reinert: It's a different practice. And by doing that, it also, it will help kind of think about it when you think about it that way, kind of get you in a different brain mode as you're doing it because you'll be coming from a different angle. So, your strokes are a little bit different. But one of the advantages I found is that a lot of people who are right-handed, if they want to learn how to do, like, Spencerian script, get those, like, weird bent nib holders. Like, the dip pens, they have those, like, weird little things. What's the name? Lefties.

Myke Hurley: I'm completely blanking.

Bent Nibs

Ana Reinert: I think they're called bent. They're called, like, bent nib.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about.

Ana Reinert: Lefties don't have to do that because we are already coming from that angle. So, right there, it's one extra tool you don't have to have. You don't need a bent nib holder because we're already coming from the left-handed side.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Oblique nib holders. That's what it's called. Yes. In the chat room. Thank you.

Ana Reinert: Yeah. Never going to need one of those. Don't ever let anybody tell you you need one because you're already coming from the other side. But, yeah, my first recommendation as a left-handed person, if you want to learn how to do it, is the cheapest, easiest way to do it. It would be to go to an art supply store and get a nib holder and dip nibs because they will basically set you back maybe $10. Nib holder is usually about $5, and nibs are about somewhere between $1 and $2.50 a piece. There's a place online called John Neal Booksellers, which is where you can get a really great range, and they have great descriptions of what each of the different nibs are, how flexible they are, how stiff they are. So if you know that you have a very heavy hand, you might want to look for one that's stiffer. If you have a very light, delicate hand, you might want to look for one that's more flexible. I normally use a Hunt Extra Fine, which is kind of pretty flexible but not super flexible. There's another one that's the Brouse 66 Extra Fine. Not for beginners. It's super flexible. You can snap that thing in half in no time. But it's really, really flexible. And if you go to, like, an art supply store, they usually oftentimes will keep them in, like, just drawers where you just pick out the nibs. And you can actually just sort of flex them on your thumbnail and see how flexible they are just by pushing the tines on your nail just to see how flexible they are. And see, some will flex a lot. Some will flex just a little bit. But, like, Speedball makes, like, whole kits. You can just buy a Speedball kit, and it'll have a range of nibs. But basically, you're looking for the pointed nibs, not the calligraphy where they have, like, the flat ends. Because those will be more for, like, a black letter. You're looking for flex nib. You'll want pointed.

Myke Hurley: So from, just from us, I guess a motion perspective when you're coming under from that, or do you feel like you're, I guess, do you feel like your handwriting motions are the same? Does it feel, like, super weird or unnatural, like, if you're not used to that? And is it, like, something you're really having to work at? Or can you?

Ana Reinert: The advantage of coming from, you know, basically your strokes come down from sort of the top of the letter form to the baseline. You know, the line of the paper, so to speak, like, if you're working on lined paper. As you come down, the stroke will automatically, by doing that, will become thicker as you come down. And then as you're going up, like, say you're making, like, the letter B, as you come down on that stroke, the stroke down will be thick. And then as you go up, you're lifting up off the pen, and it'll be thinner. So it'll automatically have that right, that correct weighting for flex nib by doing that.

Myke Hurley: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

Ana Reinert: So that is a lot of what helps do that. And that's why, even for left-handed people, you really want to kind of work from that below your hand being sort of below the baseline rather than sort of arcing over. And if that's, and it will be very awkward and uncomfortable initially for a lefty who's written their whole life kind of coming from above or from the side. There's a lettering artist on Instagram, Matt Vertagas, I never get his name right, who does a lot of brush lettering with a felt tip, like a felt brush pen. A lot of the stuff that JetPens sells. And he actually writes from the side. He actually teaches a class, like a video class on Skillshare.

Ana Reinert: So if you're left-handed and you've ever wanted to see someone who's actually a lefty do left-handed calligraphy, like brush lettering, he is the guy to watch. It's amazing to watch him because he did not change his hand at all, but he does not, he doesn't do pointed pen. He does brush lettering. That's super cool.

Myke Hurley: We definitely need to find that link for the show notes.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I will. I was in there. Don't worry. I'm sitting here doing a job.

Myke Hurley: Don't you worry about that. You are professional podcasters. There's no doubt. I got it down.

Myke Hurley: All right.

Flex Nib Pens

Ana Reinert: So if, yeah, for flex nibs and then I, for flex nib pens, I use Higgins Eternal, which is a permanent ink. Um, just because flex nibs behave a little differently, um, on paper.

Myke Hurley: I'm laughing because that's the, uh, that's the ink he used in the visionary video, which is amazing. Sorry. Really?

Ana Reinert: Oh, you do not put that in fountain pens.

Myke Hurley: Don't put, don't put that in fountain pens, people.

Ana Reinert: Don't put that in fountain pens. That's new.

Myke Hurley: Oh yeah, I remember that. Sorry. That was so good. You just gave, you just gave me like a flashback that I didn't mean. I'm sorry.

Ana Reinert: That was not meant. It's, it's like about $2.50 a bottle for, for Higgins Eternal. It's great for dip nibs. Don't ever put it in a fountain pen.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. And you can, uh, you can get that at the same place you're getting your, your dip nibs and, uh, and, uh, handles that too as well. Yeah.

Ana Reinert: Yeah. Um, but yeah. And the other option would be to try something like a, um, the Noodler's Creeper or the Ahab. Um, if you don't want to actually do the dip, you know, if you don't want to dip a pen, um, but the Noodler's Creeper does require a little adjustment as you kind of, cause you can kind of pull the nib in and out of the feed to, depending on how flexible you want it to be. Have you ever played with one?

Myke Hurley: Until I broke it about 10 minutes into getting it. Yes. And that was my, that was my last attempt. Um, I actually snapped the piston somehow. I don't know if it was already cracked or whatever, and it was done. Um, the nib seemed fine on its own. Just the pen itself was just junk. Um, but that's two, three years ago. So I need to try, I keep swearing to, to get in one of the new models, um, or try one of the different models of the, the Noodler's Flex pen. And I just haven't, um, I just haven't gone down that path. But I mean, we, we talk about them all the time, just because of the price point, you're not going to get anything like that, like that nib for that price. So sometimes you just might have to deal with a little bit of, uh, uh, playing around with the pen to, to get it working exactly how you want it. Yeah. Yeah.

Ana Reinert: So that's my, those are my recommendations. I would say start with a dip pen, goof around with it for a little while. See if you kind of can get the hang of it. Um, and then if you're enjoying it, then you can graduate to something like a Noodler's Creeper or maybe look for, um, an older, um, vintage pen with a flex nib. and you don't have to necessarily go to like a Waterman vintage or anything. I have a lot of vintage fountain pens that have bad feeds and bad sacks and all that kind of stuff. But the nib is good and the pen is, you know, just fine. And it's sort of an off-brand, no-name kind of thing. But it has a nice 14-karat gold flex nib. And I just dip it and use it.

Myke Hurley: That's perfect. And that's something you can find at somewhere like the Atlanta Pen Show, just going through these big boxes of old parts and pens, pens that are kind of in bad shape but might have a good nib that has some cool flex to it that you can definitely try out. Very cool. All right. The next one is from 7photo, who I was lucky to meet out in Los Angeles. And she's awesome. And she had a question about EDC pen cases. And knowing all the stuff that you carry, you are the right person to ask. So why don't you talk about some different sized EDC pen cases and what you use them for?

Ana Reinert: I kind of laugh because I really do carry an excessive amount of stuff with me. But so sort of I kind of broke it into my small, medium, large, and extra large carries, depending on my mood. Like going back and forth to meetings at work, I almost always, right now, I'm carrying some version of a traveler's notebook.

Ana Reinert: I have, right now I have three traveler's notebooks that I use. I have my Foxy Fix Wanderlust in Butterscotch that I'm using. Right now it's got my Rock Your Handwriting Challenge in. So it's like a field note size. And I usually just tuck a couple pens under the elastic and carry it like that. So that's sort of my EDC. So that's sort of what goes in my pocket, my purse. And I take that with me. And it's got an extra notebook in the front that I use just for lists and various things. And then I have my challenge in the back. For work, I have my Van Hook traveler's notebook. It's the turquoise one that I got off of Etsy that has my calendar in it, plus work notebook and a doodle notebook. But it has a pen loop on the side. And so I usually slide at least one pen in there and then a couple under the elastic. And that's what I carry back and forth to meetings at work. And then I have my giant Cheek Sparrow Black Beauty one, which has a big pen loop that'll hold like one of the, like a uni style fit, like five barrel pen in it. And then I stick more under the elastic and carry that around. But it's an A5 size. And so I can fit like, I have some A5 sketchbooks and stuff that'll go in there.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, that one's really cool. I haven't seen that one before. I really like the look of that. That's nice.

Ana Reinert: The Cheek Sparrow ones are really nice. I'll definitely have at least the Cheek Sparrow with me in Atlanta, because the quality of the stuff that she makes is amazing. And those are made in the United States. Actually, all three of them are made in the U.S.

Ana Reinert: Yeah. So those are sort of like, if all I'm doing is grabbing a notebook and a pen, that's what I'll carry is like a traveler's notebook and a pen stuck in the, pen or two or six stuck in the elastic. Fantastic. But normally I tend to also carry like a zip pouch. And please don't throw me off the podcast. None of them are not. I don't care. Make me a big zippy case.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I know. Right. Actually, I like just the standard open pouches, like you're about to talk about. Just a big open zip case. So we're going to do that eventually, because that's something that I want just to throw stuff in.

Ana Reinert: But I have had my Letter Writers Alliance member pen pouch now. And I went back and found it. Like I've had it since 2011. And it's the one I go back to over and over again. It's just sort of that perfect size, which is sort of like probably the most EDC of mine. It holds probably a good dozen or so pens. Yeah. So it's one that I tend to carry most often. It's usually always thrown in my bag and taken with me back and forth to work. So it's usually got whatever fountain pens I'm using that week, plus whatever sort of regular pens, and an assortment of other, you know, a pencil sharpener, an eraser, a couple of other little, you know, doodads that I throw in here and there. But the last couple of weeks, I've been doing a lot more with watercolor. And so I have a little travel watercolor set. And it's too big to fit in the Letter Writers case. So I've gone to this old case I've had for years, which is a, it's a Milo mesh case that I've had since art school. And I actually looked it up in line and they still sell it. But the only place I could find it was Rakuten. But they still make it. So this is the one that I think you guys should find a new way. Because it says it's made in America, but it's the only place you can find it is on, yeah. So whatever.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, because this is the 2014 colors is the link.

Ana Reinert: It's what they're listing. So yeah, I don't know if it's like overages or something. But yeah, I've had mine. I'm going on 15 years or something. I've had it a long time. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: The design I want to make is just your basic bank money bag style, which is like your letter writers or lines, you know, just traditional pen, pencil pouch in the style of like what you'd see for a bank bag, you know, where people are carrying money and checks back and forth from work to the bank. And you just don't see those things anymore. And it's just kind of the perfect size to throw all kinds of stuff in and carry it around like that. So yeah, that's cool.

Ana Reinert: Yeah. The thing I like about the Milo one is it just has this, an extra little mesh zip on the outside to put just like the little tiny things. So if you have like an eraser or like little lead, you know, lead pouch or, you know, cartridges for your fountain pens or whatever, you can stick them in the outside pouch so that they're not in there with all your pens and get lost. So, but yeah. And then, of course, there's my, if I'm going out on like a sketch trip or I'm going to go to sit at the coffee shop and doodle or whatever, I take my 100 pen case from Kipling, which is ridiculous. And I love it.

Myke Hurley: Ridiculous is good.

Ana Reinert: But they're nice because their sides are a little, they're almost like sort of a soft side cigar box, kind of. Zippy cigar box is the best way I could describe it. And people find them online. A lot of like different department stores or TJ Maxx or places like that will have them discounted. So, on Kipling's website, they tend to be like somewhere around $40 or $50 for them. But even Kipling will reduce them because they come out with different patterns and colors every season. So, sometimes they end up being usually around $30 for the case if you get them on sale.

Myke Hurley: But yeah. It reminds me of like a half-sized lunchbox, like you're saying, like a half-sized portable lunchbox. You know, it's got some dividers, but it's still got soft-sided, but strong enough to like protect everything that's inside of it. So, yeah, very cool.

Ana Reinert: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Very cool. All right. Last one. And we'll free you from our grasp today. I know you're tired of being on the same air as Myke because he's kind of annoying.

Brad Dowdy: Terrible. I'm so horrible.

Myke Hurley: I was just seeing if you were paying attention still. No, I'm still here. I'm telling you why. So, our good friend June is over in Japan, but she found the time to check in and wants to know how you just, you take all this stuff out with you, but at home it's got to live somewhere. So, what are you doing at the house for storage of all this awesome stuff that you have?

Ana Reinert: Well, okay. There's, right now I have three strategies. That's three more than I have. Well, yeah. Yeah. They're not working so well because if you guys could actually see the like precarious piles on my table right now, you would laugh. Like, I'm terrified they're all going to slide and you're going to hear all the noise of everything that's sliding. But I finally broke down and bought one of those, what are they called, the race cog carts from Ikea. They're like 30 bucks to put all my art supplies on. They are so sturdy. Like, I now understand why everybody and their brother has one of these things. Like, or three of them.

Myke Hurley: That's pretty cool.

Ana Reinert: They are really cool. Like, next time you're at Ikea, just do it. Break down. Buy one. I got the gray one. But, yeah. I started off originally thinking, well, I'll use it to put like the stuff that I need to review on it. And the next thing you know, it was absolutely completely covered with art supplies. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to have to get another one. Yeah. But, yeah. No, they work awesome. So, it's all my colored pencils, my colored pens, all this. It's completely covered. But mostly, like, for the stuff that I use regularly, like for reviews, gel pens, brush pens, felt tip. I keep them in pint jelly jars.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I think that's a pretty good idea.

Ana Reinert: So, they're divided by what type of pen it is. So, if I'm, here's my roller balls. Here's my gel pens. It's totally nerdy. But jelly jars are super cheap. So, I can get like a dozen of them. My grocery store carries them. So, like, I go in, I buy my groceries, and I'm like, I need another flood of jelly jars. Because I have them at work, too. Because I even like sort like my paintbrushes based on these are acrylic brushes. These are watercolor brushes. They all get their own jars. It's very OCD.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, that's perfect. No, I love every little single thing about that. That's so cool. I always learn so much from you whenever you come on. I'm like, you're going to cost me money today.

Ana Reinert: The nice thing about the pint jelly jars are they're short enough that your pens actually stick out of them. Like, a lot of jars and stuff like that are so tall that you only see like the top, like, quarter inch of your pens. These, the little pint ones are short enough that a good two inches, three inches of your pens and pencils stick out. So you can kind of, you know, feel around and figure out which one you're looking for. But the final step in my how do I manage all this crud is I have a secret society of enablers online. They're my good friends and they take very good care of me and they're very sweet. But they decided to do a charity auction for literacy and ask that people donate. Donate, uh, leftover, you know, if you've got stuff that you're not using, donate to them. They'll do an auction and then the money that's raised will go to this literacy foundation. So, um, basically I, I dumped a truckload of stuff on them.

Myke Hurley: That's such a great idea.

Ana Reinert: So I cleared, I cleared out a lot of stuff and it's just, I get review samples and I, and I don't feel right about, um, selling anything, you know, or doing. So a lot of samples, a lot of things that I've reviewed or just accumulated, it all went to the auction and everybody involved in the auction is also in this group online. So they kind of know where it came from. So they know that there may be a page or two in the back that was used for reviews and that kind of thing. So they kind of know what they're getting into. So there may be a couple of pages missing that type of thing. So that's how I got rid of a lot of stuff. And then after I sent the box, I'm like, oh, I have a whole nother pile over here. I could have sent.

Myke Hurley: I thought you were going to say, oh, I sent out, you know, one of my Esther books in there on accident.

Ana Reinert: No, there, I could have given so much more and I'm, I'm looking forward to seeing, I'll probably buy a bunch of stuff from the auction too, but I'm looking forward to seeing, you know, hoping that we'll, we'll raise a lot of money for the, for the charity. So that'll be fun.

Myke Hurley: Awesome. Well, this is wonderful as always, when we have you, Anna, and I can't wait to see you in just a few short weeks, um, at the Atlanta Pen show, spend a few days with you and, uh, just have more fun than any of us should be allowed to have. I think it's going to be awesome. And, uh, I can't wait. So thank you so much for coming on today.

Ana Reinert: Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Brad Dowdy: Always a pleasure. Anything else, Michael? No, I think that's about it for this episode. Um, if you want to catch us online, there's a few different places you can do that. Uh, you can find our show notes for this week's episode over at relay.fm slash penaddict slash one nine seven three away from the big 200. If you want to find Brad online, head on over to penaddict.com on knock.co. He is at dowdyism on Twitter, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M and penaddict on Instagram. If you would like to find me online, head on over to Twitter. I'm at imike, I-M-Y-K-E. And of course you can find Anna. She is at wellappointeddesk.com. And you can also find her on Twitter. She is well, A-P-P-T desk. But you can find links to all of that stuff over at wellappointeddesk.com too. Uh, thanks again to our sponsors this week, Harry's and Squarespace. And we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, guys. Goodbye, guys. Goodbye.