The Pen Addict 530/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	530
Title:	Overengineered
Release Date:	September 13th, 2022
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	C Y
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 530
Audio File:	Audio Episode 530
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 530
Length:	9191 min <br />1.517 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Brad Dowdy: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 530. My name is Bradley Dowdy, and I'm joined by someone who only two weeks ago I shared dinner with in person, but had to wait until they were halfway around the world again to have on the podcast. From Tokyo Station Pens and the Tokyo Inklings podcast, welcome CY, how's it going?

CY: Hey, Bradley Dowdy. I'm very glad that that name is sticking. I mean, I know that you were born with that name, but I think it's great.

Brad Dowdy: I am glad you picked up on that. I did that intro just for you. I figured you would appreciate it. So CY is one of the few people on the list of approvals for calling me Bradley Dowdy. For some reason, you latched onto that really quickly. I don't know what happened. You just, like, out of the blue, you're like, wait, is your real name Brad, or is it something? Something else. And then from then on, Bradley Dowdy it was.

CY: I think I, you know what happened? So we got off the car, you got off the car, and then, you know, the shaking hands. And then I saw you, I was like, Bradley Dowdy, the man himself. And then I asked, like, a few hours later, and I said, by the way, is Brad your, like, full name? And then you're like, no, it's actually Bradley. It's like, all right, then. That is who you are, then.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that is it. And for the rest of the weekend, I was Bradley Dowdy. Now, for listeners, it is with no E. So it's a very, more unique Bradley than the normal one. So it's B-R-A-D-L-Y.

CY: Well, it's, it's like, it's like, kind of, and what is it? Adjective to describe Brad? Bradley? He's very Bradley. Exactly.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, that's terrible. I wish you wouldn't have said that. No, just kidding.

CY: We're going to have, we're going to have some Bradley conversations today.

Brad Dowdy: This is going to be a great episode. This has been a long time coming, right? Like, you know, were you, were you jealous that I had Jacob on the show first?

CY: Uh, no, because I was already on the front of the show.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, yeah, we had talked before we had talked previously, but I was like, oh, I gotta, I gotta make sure like, see why it was like, hey, I'm gonna have Jacob on. And, uh, for those who don't know, Jacob, uh, is CY's, uh, Tokyo Inklings podcast partner, which we're going to talk about, uh, throughout the show. Um, and I had, uh, Jacob fill in, um, you know, back in the summertime or gosh, I can't even remember when, several months ago. And I was like, I need to email CY or text CY like right after. It's like, hey, I'm going to have you on too. I didn't want to be on your list.

CY: No, no worries. No worries. I've been on podcasts where he hasn't been on. So don't tell anybody.

Brad Dowdy: We won't tell him he won't, he doesn't listen to this. He won't, he doesn't listen to our show. So we won't, we won't do that. All right. So one of the things you and I need to knock out at the start of this is kind of give everyone who is not familiar with you and your work a little bit of background. So they know when we go off the deep end later in this show, why all of this is happening. So one of the things that I need to know that I don't personally know is kind of your stationary background. When did you become just kind of, you know, a stationary nerd and junkie and started to get into this stuff? You know, was it an early years in school, CY? Did it come a little bit later in life? So give me your stationary background.

CY introduces himself and his online presence.

CY: Sure. So I'll just do my intro. Hello, my name is CY. You can find me on my website at tokyostationpens.com, on Instagram at tokyostationpens, and on Twitter at tokyostationmnh. And I think we might have had a conversation about this before, but let's just get it on air. I think it's very difficult, you know, me having grown up in Asia. So I was born in Taiwan, but I was raised in Hong Kong. And it's difficult to really live a life without stationary here, which is something that I hadn't realized until I actually moved to the US. But, you know, the kind of premium stationary, I guess, like a Pilot G2 or, you know, your Sarasa's or your Muji, all of those are pretty readily available and pretty common in everybody's pen cases. So I wouldn't say that I was particularly a, you know, stationary enthusiast. I mean, I like stationary, but then, you know, so did everybody else. But I remember that when we were younger, we used to have these mechanical pen cases. And these mechanical pen cases were, well, and of course, they're all from Japan, but usually on the outside, they had some, you know, cartoon character or what have you. And then there are these buttons. And then inside the pen case, there are different rigid compartments. So there's one for your eraser, your pencils, your pens, leads, blah, blah, blah, blah. They even have like pencil sharpeners. And then you press the button and those compartments kind of shoot out because there's a spring. And so we used to use these pencil cases or pen cases. We'd shoot out these compartments, but instead we'd put our eraser in front of the compartments. So we, you know, try to hit each other with the erasers. So that was fun. Yeah. So that was probably my first really distinct, oh, you know, I'm using my tools in a way that probably was not intended, but everybody did it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, exactly. So like when we talked about before, you and I, like you mentioned, we actually talked on the, I have a pen addict members podcast called Friend of the Show. So, but like we talked about like stationary where you grew up just is, it's like part of daily life. Like in the U.S., it's like, okay, we have McDonald's. It's just part of everyone assumes like everyone has a McDonald's. It's like everyone, you don't realize that, oh, other people don't have a McDonald's around the corner or something like that. It's just part of your life. So when did it become, you know, later in life, like a real thing, like as you're starting to get, as you're starting to like share things online, write about pens. And I want to talk about like the order of events as far as blogging, podcasting, Instagram and all that. When did that change happen and why did it happen?

CY: You know, let me, I know this is not the question you asked, but let me backtrack just a little bit onto, you know, how I got into, let's say, fountain pens specifically, because I think that's, that's quite important to the overall story. Okay. So, you know, as a kid growing up, you know, watching these movies and especially these, you know, period dramas, everybody's using these quill pens, these fountain pens. And I'm like, wow, that's, that's so cool. And so I always, I thought I wanted to have a fountain pen. And at that time I was maybe about like, you know, 12, 13, 14. And I really wanted a Lamy Safari. And you've had Patrick Ng on the show before. And I think he works at City Super, right? As the stationary merchandiser. So I have these distinct memories of going to City Super, seeing these massive Lamy displays. And, you know, they have the, the pens kind of diagonally placed into, into those displays. And I said, wow, I really want a Lamy Safari, but I don't know if I can pay 10 bucks for, for a pen. So one year I was, I was sent off to handwriting camp. We have those here. Okay. That's a whole discussion right there. Yeah. So I was sent off to this handwriting camp in, in China. And it turns out in China, people learn how to handwrite with fountain pens. And I remember hating these pens because none of them would fill. Like they would write, but they wouldn't fill. And they're all those bladder squeeze ones. Yeah. But yeah, so, so they weren't very good. Kind of forgot about it for a while. And then when I moved to France for university in, in Europe, as you're aware, um, many countries in Europe still require the use of fountain pens in, uh, especially grade school. And so one of my Swiss friends had, uh, had a fountain pen and I said, uh, well, may I try using it? Um, and she said, no, uh, and I, you know, there's this myth about, uh, if you let somebody use your fountain pen, they're gonna, um, the fountain pen is gonna, you know, change its properties and it's gonna, you know, go out of alignment because your fountain pen has a kind of learned to be with you. Right. So, so, so she gave me this, this myth and I said, okay, fine. Um, so I went to the supermarket, spent about five euros and bought myself a pack of three pilot petites. And then I tried them and I was like, wow, they're, they're incredible. So smooth. I can write so quickly with them. Uh, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, invest in a good pen. So, so I went to the pen store and, um, and then I got a Parker sonnet and then, you know, I brought it back home, went to class with it, started using this Parker sonnet and it was terrible. So fibers got, got stuck in, in the tines. It was, you know, wooden, right? Hard starting dry. I don't know how you can hard start and dry. Um, and so like, like, uh, a normal person, what I did was, okay, um, let me go back and buy another one. Just in case, you know, just in case it's a user error. So I went back, bought another one and, um, lo and behold, it was, uh, it was rubbish. So, uh, eventually I, uh, I bought a few more pens. I think I bought a kit pen at one point. And then that summer I worked an internship at a law firm and using the money that I earned at the law firm, I bought myself an absolutely crazy deal of a Mont Blanc. So I bought a Mont Blanc 145. And I bought it in the already discontinued burgundy color. And then I thought to myself, well, uh, you know, I'm at the apex of writing instruments. Now I have a Mont Blanc. So I guess that's it. My journey's come to an end.

CY: Um, and it did, it did for, for, um, for almost seven years. I, I used that one pen exclusively and I used one ink exclusively too. I used lavender purple exclusively. Oh, well that, that's a pretty good choice. It is. It is. It is. Uh, you know, the burgundy and the, and the, and the, the purple, I thought that went pretty well. And, and that ink at that time was dark enough that if you use it on, um, kind of like copy paper or just regular paper, it looked almost like it was black. So I did, I never got any, you know, comments about it from my teacher or, um, you know, I would use this to, you know, sign those immigration forms at the airport. Um, so, so I used that for, for exclusively for seven years. Um, and then I moved to Japan. I bought a Naginata Togi. Um, and because you could at that time, just pick them up, uh, off the ground. Um, I went to this Merz and Pen Fair. I didn't know what it was at the time, but I went there. Um, I bought some inks. I bought this pen. It's like $200 or something. Um, and I was like, this is too thick for me. Back to the Mont Blanc I go. Um, and that was, yeah, that was, that was pretty much my fountain pen adventure. And then what happened is about four or five years ago, I think almost five years ago, I went on a, uh, Christmas vacation, winter vacation, uh, with my girlfriend and we went to Kyoto and I discovered this thing called Yahoo auctions. Oh no. Have you heard of Yahoo auctions before? Uh, only through this certain podcast that I listened to. Yes. So, so Yahoo auctions is kind of like our version of eBay.

CY: And, um, and then I was scrolling through these Yahoo auctions and I realized, I said, wow, I can buy a Mont Blanc for $50. You know, it's just $50. Why not? So, so I, I bought a, bought a Mont Blanc there. Um, it was a Mont Blanc Generations and, um, it arrived and the section was cracked. Um, and so I said, no problem. It's only 50 bucks. I'll just go buy another one and swap out the parts because I'm a genius.

CY: So I bought like three more and all of the sections were cracked in the exact same spot.

CY: But then I, I had already been hooked, you know, uh, I had already been, um, enticed into this world of secondhand, um, fountain pens. And then now to more directly answer your question. Um, when I was about to leave my, I used to work at a company, um, that dealt deeply within the social media space. And I was about to move from this company to a more traditional, uh, retail company. And I thought to myself, you know what? I'd really like to keep up to date with social media trends. Um, I'd really like to, you know, become a practitioner and really just in case I want to move back to this kind of a job, I would be able to say something right about being able to keep up. So, so that's when I started Tokyo Station Pens. Gotcha. And I think it was, um, I want to say the October of 2018.

CY discusses starting his blog and entering the fountain pen community.

CY: Okay. I didn't post anything, but I bought the domain. Uh, I started up my WordPress and I said, you know what? I'm going to do this.

Brad Dowdy: So it's interesting getting a little bit more detail about, you know, kind of how you got started in fountain pens. I have two questions from what you were just saying. Number one, do you still have that original Mont Blanc?

CY: Um, I actually sold it. Uh, I sold it to our good friend Kelly's mother. Okay. Nice. Well, hey, it's going to a good home.

Brad Dowdy: That's, that's.

CY: That Mont Blanc has a, has a funny story actually. Um, I lost it once. Um, I went to graduate school in the UK. Uh, so very close to, to Myke. Um, and, uh, and for some reason I was possessed to bring my Mont Blanc everywhere and, uh, and I brought it to a nightclub.

CY: Of course you did. That's what you do, right? Yeah. Just, you know, in my blazer pocket. And, and then, you know, the next day it wasn't there anymore, but it has my name inscribed into the, into the clip. So I went to the Mont Blanc store and I said, Hey, if, uh, somebody comes into the shop with, uh, with a pen with my name on the clip, you know, that's a stolen pen. And they said, Oh no, we're not going to help you. If somebody comes in, we're just going to swap out the clip for them.

CY: So I was very, very mad, but because my name was on the clip, some kind soul picked it up. You know, they, they found me on Facebook and they actually gave it back to me.

Brad Dowdy: Wow. That's unreal.

CY: Yeah. And, um, and, and then afterwards, you know, like five years later, I sold it to, to Kelly's mom and she's kept the inscription on the clip.

Brad Dowdy: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's, that's great. All right. So the second thing I picked up on, which probably leads us directly into like literally the entire rest of the show is I'm wondering as you started like finding Yahoo auctions and you're in, I guess even back from the Parker sonnet, you were interested in, it sounds like you were interested in like how these things work, what can I do to make them better? How can I manipulate this? How can I repair this? Like most people, I would say, you know, probably 95% of people are going to get that crack section and go like, Oh man, this is bad. And I'm going to send it back. Like, I'm, I don't have any interest in trying to figure this out why this keeps happening. Um, you ordered three more all with the same problem. And you're like, Huh, this is interesting. How can I get around this? Um, is, is that accurate in kind of how you see things maybe a little bit differently? Than like, say myself in the fountain pen world and why you kind of do what you do now?

CY: So I would say that, um, more than how this is interesting. I thought, well, I've already spent 50 bucks. What's another 50? So it was a sunk cost fallacy. Yeah. You fit right in around here. Um, but, but to go into the repairs and, and, and the modification, that stuff, actually, I have to credit Aziza. I didn't tell her this when I, when I saw her, but the reason why I got into nib grinding in the first place is because I've read Aziza's blog. And at the time, uh, another reason why I felt that I had been finished with my, um, fountain pen journey is that most, uh, factory settings come only with, you know, fine, medium, broad. If you're lucky, you get like a, you're like, I don't know, like a medium, fine or something, but you know, what's the point of that? Um, excuse me. I, I retract that medium finds are great. I was about to go, whoa, whoa, whoa. Slander. Yeah. But, but, you know, they're, they're essentially just in between fines and mediums. Standard stuff. Yeah. And, and, and then I saw her article on music nibs and she had this vintage Waterman music nib, which was, which was flexible. And I thought to myself, oh, I really want one of those. So I go on eBay. I look up, uh, I look up the relevant keywords. I found one. It's like $350. I said, $350. I don't want to spend that much on just the nib. You know what? Because I, you know, have these genius ideas. I'm going to make one. And then I thought to myself, well, how am I going to make one? Uh, so I bought a bunch of pilot music nibs and, um, started grinding away at them. Well, $3,000 later, I managed to make, yeah, I managed to make a flexible three-time music nib, which is actually, um, my logo. A lot of people think it's a light bulb. Oh. Yeah. But it's actually a three-time nib and, um, and it also serves as a location pin. And, but anyway, uh, so, so yeah, I, you know, several thousand dollars later, I've been, um, I've been, you know, again, sunk cost fallacy. I've got to do something with this, with all this machinery. So, so then I decided to explore, you know, making other nibs. And I, I've said this on a, I think on a video with, um, Inky Rocks. Shout out to Inky Rocks. Shout out. Fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic. Um, YouTube. Adding that to the show notes right now. Uh, but I said on, on one of the videos, why I'm interested in fountain pens is because I view fountain pens as, um, really like a machine. If you think about it, we've actually regressed in writing instrument technology. Um, like I think, you know, gel pens, ballpoint pens, that they're all great, but essentially they are some form of ink. And then you, you know, push the ball and because the ball rotates, you got ink kind of, you know, stuck on the ball and, and then you're, you're writing, right? Um, but fountain pens actually use, you know, capillary action. You have to think about, um, ink delivery. You have mechanisms. And in a way I, I, I, I think that it's really almost like a celebration of human ingenuity. And it's, it's really a reflection of this phrase that I learned when I was in school, uh, man, the maker, um, you know, how we've, we've created and invented things to, to help us, uh, achieve our goals in life. And in a way a fountain pen is, is like an over-engineered piece of that. Right. So, so that's what I, uh, grew to find interesting. Um, and then, yeah, as you said, you know, that's when I went, huh, that's, that's interesting. And, um, and yeah, the rest is, I guess, history.

Brad Dowdy: So were you trying to, why were you trying to solve these problems? Like why, why did you want to buy all these music nibs? Were you trying to find a better writing experience for yourself? Is it that simple in the beginning?

CY: I just thought it looked cool.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

CY: And, and, and it wasn't available, uh, that it's not available was, was a challenge, you know, like I had to do it because nobody is doing it.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. Well, that leads me perfectly into one of what I want to talk about next, but, uh, you, you mentioned my podcast host, Myke, just a minute ago. So I'm going to throw it over to Myke real quick for an ad read. And, uh, we're going to pick this right back up in just a second.

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Brad Dowdy: All right. So this idea of the things not existing or, you know, it's rare or it's different and unique seems to be a theme with what you do now. So following you kind of since the beginning, you know, I've just kind of watched your transformation. I love following everything that you do because I learned so much. Right. That's one of my biggest things about you. And I'll tell you a secret about your podcast later in the show if it comes up that I get from it. But, you know, following you and your transformation, like from the jump, the information was different than like someone who consumes content in the stationary space, you know, it was different content. And you have kind of like if we jump into like the present day, you've kind of made a name for yourself for doing things very, very differently. It comes from grinds or stacking nibs. So tell me about how, you know, from, hey, let's figure out these these pilot music nibs and make this, you know, wild flexi music nib to like really the the experimentation that you have going on now.

CY talks about creating a flexible music nib and meeting Ralph.

CY: Yeah. So I'm just going to skip ahead like a year. I'd been I managed to make this flexible music nib. And it really, I guess, launched, quote unquote, my career, quote unquote, because there were there are a few people who saw what I did and believed in me. And I'm very grateful for these people. If you're listening to this, you know who you are. But yeah, they believed in me. They asked me to make some nibs for them. And they were happy enough to to share that on on their feeds. And then slowly I got inquiries. And at that time, I hadn't intended to really do this as a, I suppose. Anything beyond a hobby. Mm hmm. So I was really quite taken aback. I had like 80 followers on Instagram back then. And yeah, I got these requests. And again, going back to this Yahoo auctions, I found these pocket pens, these Japanese pocket pens for like dirt cheap. You know, bring them in, polish them up, and then I would sell them on Reddit for a little bit of a profit. Not too much. You know, I'm just making back on really shipping. But then the act of selling those pens, you know, that was another hook for me. Mm hmm. But then, again, I got into the nibs because first I thought it looked cool. Second, nobody else is doing it. And then I found Ralph Reyes's profile. And for those of you who don't know, at that time, this was around, you know, between 2016, I want to say, to 2019-ish. Sailor stopped making Naginata Togi nibs. Or maybe they didn't stop making it, but they were not for sale. Right? You couldn't get them anywhere, even in Japan. And I saw this kid who was really making really cool stuff. Whether you like the aesthetics or not, that's separate. But, you know, he was making overlays on the nib. He was making monster nibs, you know, five-layer nibs. And I was like, wow, that's incredible. That's so cool. And you couldn't get any of these because he worked on, you know, a different schedule from everybody else. And, you know, you really, really, you just had to be lucky to get one. And in the 2019 Tokyo International Pen Show, Ralph came to Japan. Because I think he had met Nagahara-san, might have been DC. And then he was inspired to come to Japan. And I decided, you know what, I'm going to grab hold of him. And I'm not going to let him go for the entire weekend.

CY: He didn't know this, of course.

CY: So I was very fortunate to meet Ralph. We had a great time. I was, you know, helping him translate. And he was showing different people his nibs. And at that time, I thought of making them. But I also had no idea where to start. So I asked Ralph, I said, hey, Ralph, you know, what are you using to make these? He says, oh, I'm just using a laser welder. And I looked one of those up. And yeah, that cost 20 grand starting. So I was like, okay, that's not what I'm going to use.

CY: So I bought this Amazon. I bought a welder on Amazon. It's like this yellow made in China one. And it's a pulse arc welder. And I had several nibs re-tipped to have the, you know, extra large tipping. And then just left it there for a year. So remember, I met Ralph in 2019. I bought the stuff. I was so scared to even start. I didn't do anything until January of 2021. Wow. Because I was just, I was worried about messing up. And, you know, I'd really like to succeed. I really like to be able to create things. So failure, failure is scary. It's scary to me. But then one day, I came back home this cold January afternoon.

CY: And I think my girlfriend was, you know, she had to do her nails or like, you know, go to the hair salon or something. So I had the entire afternoon to myself.

CY: And I said, you know what? I'm just going to do it. And in that single moment of courage, I created my first stack nib on a momplot 146. For which Jacob says I'm crazy because I should have practiced on hundreds of things first. That was literally going to be my comment. But yes, go ahead. And then I wrote the article, The Anatomy of a Stack Nib. And I wrote that article and I write the articles that I do on my website because it's not really documented anywhere. You know, especially not in English. But even in Japanese, this is really not documented. Who's making them? What's the process of making them? And I just thought for all the mythology around stack nibs, we know surprisingly so little about them. So why not take my experience? Maybe this will benefit somebody else. Maybe somebody else is going to read my article and think to themselves, hey, I'm inspired to make these. Just like how when I saw Ralph's website, I said, hey, maybe one day I want to do that too.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's pretty cool. And as we go through this show, we're going to talk about how things have progressed. And the things that are interesting to you now.

Brad Dowdy: Before we do that, I want to rewind just a little bit because we've mentioned Jacob and we've mentioned the podcast before. How did that come about and that you had started writing and making things? How did you and Jacob meet and decide to have a podcast?

CY: Yeah, so I met Jacob, I want to say in March, February or March of 2019. And we met up and we said, hey, there's this pen addict guy. He's always talking about some stuff on the podcast, but this pen addict guy is always late.

Brad Dowdy: He's late and wrong a lot.

CY: We knew this stuff like three months ago. Why is he talking about him now?

CY: But in all seriousness, we listened to the pen addict and we thought, hey, there's so much information that's locked here either in Japan or in Japanese. And maybe there's an appetite for people who don't want to do that deep, intensive research. Because anytime you want to find out anything about anything in Japan, you're committed to hours and hours and hours of research. And I'm sure, Bradley Dowdy, for your blog, to research high-tech C, you probably spend 10 hours just trying to find where the information is. Not even talking about translating it, digesting it, and then formatting into your own words. Right. And information shouldn't, especially in, what are we not, 21st century, this shouldn't be locked up like this. And so we decided, hey, maybe it would be fun for us to start a podcast to just specifically discuss stationary in Asia, but more specifically stationary in Japan. Because I think Japan is really the holy land for a lot of stationary enthusiasts. But I think a lot of people just don't really know what it's like here. How are people using their stationary here? That's the question we get most. What's the difference between the Japanese stationary scene and the Western stationary scene? And so we talked about it for like, you know, a year. And it was always like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we should start the podcast. Maybe when we have time. And in March, right before everything shut down, I said, you know what? That's enough. I'm buying, I'm looking it up, buying mics, and we're going to do it. So, you know, just one weekend in March, we sat down, we recorded our first episode.

CY: And, yeah, we published it. It was, I think we might have done two takes. But it was really fun. We didn't get everything perfect. The audio is probably really bad. But it was a start. And we actually got listeners from the very, very beginning. And we did weekly episodes for one month. And then we switched to our current cadence, which is bi-weekly.

CY: The podcast has been one of the more rewarding things that I've done. And because we always get the feedback, you know, thank you for talking about this on the podcast. Without this, we would never have known. And that's really the initial purpose of our podcast. And funny thing, actually, going back to meeting Jacob, I actually found him on Reddit. He had posted his kind of event recap to the Pelican Hubs and to Wagner. And I was always very worried. I think when you don't know anybody in the community, you're worried about, you know, showing up. And, you know, what if nobody likes you? You have this imposter syndrome. Or at least I did. And so, you know, you have to remember that everybody here speaks Japanese. And as a non-Japanese person, it was very intimidating. So I sent a message. I was like, hey, you know, how is it like there? Are people nice? And then when I met him, you know, six months later, I told my girlfriend, I said, that's a celebrity. He takes really good photos.

Brad Dowdy: So confession time. The first part isn't a confession. The first part is that y'all make my favorite podcast. And it's the way you present information. Like I can tell, like y'all are really trying to answer questions and provide information and go in depth on topics that you explained correctly. Like we, you know, necessarily in the rest of the world don't necessarily have either the access or the ability to digest or to even locate. So I appreciate that very much. And the confession is I normally run about two or three episodes behind. I don't listen to it currently. But I, to, you know, like when the episodes drop, I don't rush to listen to it. And I do that because I want, I don't want to say, speak about the same topics that you do. So I want to have this, this gap, like out of respect as like, I don't want to feel like I'm just regurgitating. Y'all talk about so much interesting stuff that I want to talk about constantly, but I don't want to feel like I'm just regurgitating what you said is because you're going to do it better. So that, that's my secret confession is I'm usually about three episodes behind because I don't want to, I don't want to jump in and kind of distract from the awesome conversations y'all have going on. So I just appreciate what y'all do very, very much. And it shows the work that y'all put into it and the way, you know, the, the information's presented and detailed and do it from like an education perspective. Like, Hey, we're going to talk about this, you know, topic and why, you know, these decisions were made on this topic. And then, you know, also have the, the great color of, Hey, let's go to the pen store and tell everyone how great the Japanese stationary scene is, which believe me, we're going to get into that as we go through this show.

CY: Well, you know, um, the, the structure of how we present our podcast, I think, obviously I think we enjoy what we put out. I think we put out a good product. I think it's also sometimes a little bit difficult for, uh, because there's so much information, it's actually more difficult to digest. And a feedback that we get quite a lot is, you know, we have listeners tell us all the time, you say, I had to listen to the episode three times in order to catch everything. And then, you know, I'll go back and listen. Now I'll hear something that I didn't hear on the first time. So, so that happens quite often, actually.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. It's great. And, uh, so I, I just implore y'all to, to keep doing what you're doing and, and shout out to Jacob. Uh, y'all, y'all have a great chemistry together. I love, uh, how y'all go back and forth and kind of like Myke and I, not to like compare the two, but like, it's like, you will just agree to disagree sometimes. Right. You see things differently and it's good to have that perspective, um, from, from different topics. You know, even if it's like, Hey, I don't like this ink color, you know, or Hey, I don't like this paper intent.

CY: You know, Brad, uh, I can't stop people from having bad taste.

Brad Dowdy: You try though. You're, you're putting in the work, which that's what I want to talk about. Next is spreading the, your, your good taste around the world, specifically in the U S recently. So we're going to talk about the crazy trip that you were on recently. I have so many questions. We're going to take a break real quick, uh, hear from our buddy, Myke, and then we'll be right back.

Myke Hurley: Hey, Myke, this episode of the pen addict is brought to you by same box inbox. Inbox zero is a thing of the past. We're all so inundated with email these days that it's no longer about responding to everything that you get. It's only about responding to the important things. That's what you want to care about. The messages that really matter and same box gets your email in order by working on top of and alongside your existing setup. You don't need to create a new email account. You don't need to download a new app. Same box just makes your existing setup even better. If you've ever met someone who's used same box, someone like me, you're going to know that the initial same box purge can be really powerful. This is where it takes all of your email and puts it in the places that it should be. And then after that initial claim cleanup, same box will then allow you to manage your daily emails more efficiently from there. I've been using same box for years and I would never go back. Just having some of my most annoying email taken out of my inbox and put somewhere else, but not even just the annoying stuff, just the stuff that isn't the most important. Same box does a great job. You can also train it, which I really like. If you take an email and move it to one of the same box created folders that you have set up, it will then learn from that and be able to process your future email even better. I like that it has both things. It does some of it itself, but it also learns from my habits. Same box has some really cool features like same black hole. You drag messages to this folder that same box sets up for you and you're never going to hear from that sender ever again. This is way better than unsubscribing. This is going to make sure that your unwanted emails go like you get rid of them, right? You get rid of them. That's what you want. You want them gone. So I also have same reminders. This can ping you if somebody hasn't replied to your email by a certain date. You can also snooze emails to same box, which is a great way to defer or deemphasize some less urgent stuff. Same box works with any email client or phone anywhere that you check your email. It really is the very best in email filtering and sorting. With over 600 views on Trustpilot and glowing reviews from TechCrunch, Forbes, The New York Times, and emailers everywhere, you can rest assured that you will fall in love with your email again. See how same box can magically remove distractions from your inbox with a free two-week trial. Visit samebox.com slash penaddict today to start your free trial and get a $25 credit. That's S-A-N-E-B-O-X dot com slash penaddict. Our thanks to same box for the support of this show and RelayFM.

Brad Dowdy: So you just spent how many weeks in the U.S.? I spent five weeks in the U.S. Five weeks in the U.S. So I want to know how this idea of coming over to the U.S. kind of percolated up. Were you thinking, hey, I want to go to a pen show and, you know, see what's up and, you know, meet some people that, you know, I talked to online? Did that turn into like, was it like a single event thing that turned into this really broad, wide-ranging trip, which we'll get into all the details. So tell me the pre-planning of your recent trip to the U.S. What was the process behind that?

CY shares his experience at the San Francisco Pen Show and connecting with Dromgools.

CY: So first I knew I had to do the San Francisco pen show. Okay. So that was definitely something that I needed to see because we get a lot of guests, or we used to get guests in Japan, and a lot of them were from California. So I wanted to hit up the San Francisco pen show. My parents live in D.C., so doing the D.C. pen show is a no-brainer. Oh. Not a problem. They are, you know, several weeks apart.

CY: And several time zones apart. Yeah. So ostensibly, I went back to visit my family, which, you know, very conveniently, they're only about 20 minutes by car from the D.C. venue. And originally, it was only these two shows. And maybe if we have time, I'll talk a little bit about my future plans for the shows. Oh, definitely. Originally, it was just these two shows. And then I reached out to Yoseka Stationery because I love Yoseka Stationery. I think they are vision meets execution. Mm-hmm. And I said, hey, I'm going to come to the U.S. Would you like to do a collaboration? Maybe I can come to your store and do, like, a grinding event, get the customers in the store. And, you know, when customers are in the store, they're going to buy stuff. Mm-hmm. So we had several Zoom meetings, Google meets, whatever it was, video chats. And we got to know each other a little bit more. We got to share a little bit about our respective visions for Stationery, for the industry. And we logged in some dates. And originally, I was only going to do one day there. Mm-hmm. We eventually extended to two.

CY: And then I was connected to Dromgools through Kenro. And I won't say more about that.

CY: But I was connected to Dromgools through Kenro. And Dromgools said to me, they said, hey, Ariel, toasty treat, she's talked to us about you before. Would you like to come down and do a nip grinding event? I looked at my calendar. I was like, oh, well, I guess all my weekends are booked up now.

CY: And that's really how the four events came to be, really, you know, came together.

Brad Dowdy: That's, yeah, that's cool. So it started out as like, hey, family DC. And I really need to get to San Francisco. And you kind of filled in the gaps in between there. So let's start with DC. And can you give me an idea of what that show was like in relation to, you know, say, like, Tips in Japan, which is one of the larger stationary, you know, shows in the world? I don't know that you necessarily need to like directly compare and contrast in them. But what's like a US show experience like versus what you've experienced in Japan?

CY: So the DC show opens on Thursday. I didn't know the table assignments until Thursday. And apparently Thursday is a free day anyway. So you can set up shop wherever you like. But not a lot of people are there. And especially a lot of vendors don't show on Thursday. So I thought, you know, I'm just going to take my table and just have my stuff there. So I did. And then on Friday, Friday morning, I was informed that my table is now no longer my table.

CY: I get to get to my new table. I'm just staying quiet over here, by the way. It's fine. So I get to my new table. And it's a corner table. It's a better table. It doesn't have electricity. Okay. And, you know, on Friday night. And, you know, this is my bad. The show supposedly, ostensibly closes at 5.30. I was working until like, no, it closes at 5.00. Yeah. And I was working until like 6.00. They turned off my electricity at 5.30.

CY: In contrast, the Tokyo International Pen Show, great show. So they sent me a handbook, a guidebook to the show. You know, where do you send your stuff? How do you bring it up? The elevators. You know, where should you be? At what time? Blah, blah, blah, blah. 70 pages of guidebook. So I read this guidebook. And then they call a vendor meeting. And I said, well, it's a vendor meeting. So it must be important. So two-hour vendor meeting. I joined, turns out we're just reading the guidebook line by line.

CY: So I think a happy medium is where really we'd like to be. But so that's on the organization front. On the vendor front, a lot of individual vendors, a lot of individual stuff makers in the US, not just DC, but in San Francisco as well. In Japan, mostly retailers. So you're going to mostly see stuff that is available for sale. Very few vintage tables.

CY: Especially now with COVID and with the travel restrictions, we don't have the interesting stuff from overseas.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. Yeah.

CY: Yeah. In DC, obviously very vintage heavy. a lot of Europeans. I heard French. I heard Italian. I heard Turkish. So yeah, definitely I think more of a healthy mix in the US. But the last thing which I think is important is community. The US doesn't really have that many stores. Doesn't have that many great exclusives. The scene is not super interesting. But despite that, there's a strong communal aspect to the hobby. There's a lot of back and forth in terms of banter, discussion, people telling other people about cool things. And you really have kind of like a friend group, right? Whereas in Japan, it's really not like that. And, you know, what's that? Drumgools. And people apparently just go into drumgools on like Saturdays, stay there for six or seven hours and then just go home. You'd never have this in Japan because the stores and the customers, they haven't created this community aspect of it. And so what you have in the US is this healthy community who enjoy each other and who are not afraid to talk to each other. In Japan, it's a bit different. This pen show after dark thing doesn't really exist in Japan, especially with the COVID thing now. The Tokyo International Pen Show is divided into blocks. So you buy a ticket for your block. So you might get Friday morning and then you don't get to go in for the rest of the show because you've been assigned your block Friday morning. So you can buy extra tickets. But yeah, you get in to the block for which your ticket is assigned. And then after that, you just go home because your friends might not be there at the same time. You might say hi to a vendor that you really like, but definitely it's a lot. The decibel is lower and there's not as much of a communal aspect. People don't, customers don't necessarily want to be friends with each other. They really much rather kind of to be left alone and they just want to buy what they like.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, they're there just to hit up some of their retailers or some of their favorite retailers and take care of their business or their dealings. And then outside of their window, they're gone. That's interesting. I didn't realize that from that perspective.

CY: But I want to still commend the organizing committee because to create an event like this in Japan is, I think, not so easy. Sure. I think it's difficult to get people who want to exhibit to buy tables. A table in Tokyo at the Tokyo International Festival is very expensive, by the way. It's about $500. Oh, okay. But the facility is super modern. But the show is very young. It's only been around for about four iterations. It's going to be the fifth iteration next month. And remember, for three of these, we had no foreign vendors. So I really think when the border opens up, we have foreign vendors, foreign visitors. We need that energy here. And I think that's why it's so good for the Japanese vendors to go over to the US pen shows because they get to observe the energy that the US pen shows have. And Takayuki-san from Plotter, when he came back, he did an Instagram Live. He said, hey, maybe we should just book out a hotel and have an event for our customers. I think it would be really fun. So I think that energy is really important. So I'm looking forward to when foreign visitors can come back to Japan.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I mean, Myke and I have obviously been wanting to make that trip for years now and for obvious reasons haven't been able to. But I mean, it is like on the tip of our tongues just all the time. Like we can't wait to actually do this and get it done and just experience that. What about just for listeners of our show who may have been to DC and San Francisco, what is the scope and size just comparatively to something like TIPS as far as the scale of the show? How do they compare? Yeah.

CY: I'd say San Francisco and TIPS are probably comparable in terms of like vendor number. Maybe San Francisco is a bit more. DC was, you know, wild. It was wild. Like 350 something tables. Yeah. Yeah. What can I say? It was wild. Right, right, right, right. But I think if I'm not mistaken, in 2018, 2019, we actually had 3,000 summon attendees from across the world.

Brad Dowdy: From what I've seen of been following TIPS, and you can obviously speak on it better than I can, the growth of the show has been impressive. And from the jump, they've had the customers coming through that a lot of shows here can't necessarily like contend with, right? Like as far as just like raw gate numbers, it's a big event for stationary fans in Japan.

CY: It's a small event for stationary fans in Japan because the larger one, Bungajoshi, has like 10,000 people. Wow.

Brad Dowdy: Wow. Yeah. That's, so, how do I present this question? What is, I guess, different about, say, the Japanese retailers' expectations of a pin show? Say, like you're mentioning at TIPS, so it'll be mostly like retailers, right? And there's a lot of different types of retailers in Japan. Are they mostly bringing what they would normally sell in the stores? Are they making show special stuff? Because I know you and Jacob often talk about how, you know, making trips to like, you know, buy the certain special things, say a special ink creation that's only available there. Is that a really big deal kind of across the board at a show like TIPS?

CY explains the popularity of ink and exclusives in Japanese stationery culture.

CY: Yeah. So I would say that ink is probably the best seller at any kind of TIPS because, unlike in the US, every retailer and their mothers have five exclusive inks. And the only way that you normally would be able to get these inks is if you actually go to these places. And a lot of times these places can be very, very, very remote. So when you have an event like TIPS, when everybody comes together, you can buy everything at once. Just, you know, imagine you're somebody living in Tokyo, you're a stationary lover, but you might not have the expenses to go over, you know, down to the very south, go over to Nagasaki just to buy the sink or, you know, go up to... There's a place in Hokkaido called Ishida Bungu. In order to get there, you have to take a plane to Hakodate, which is very far from Sapporo, the capital of Hokkaido. So you fly up to Hakodate, and then you have to take a train, and then you have to take a bus to go there. And the train leaves every half an hour, right? So when these people are here at the show, that's going to draw crowds.

Brad Dowdy: Gotcha.

CY: And also, a lot of the retailers have their own exclusives, and not a lot of retailers in the United States have their own exclusives. So I think that's why the retail scene can do so well at shows, even though they're only bringing things that they normally sell at their stores anyway. However, there are, I want to say, two particular, maybe three, 2.5, vendors that always bring something specifically for the show. I would say the first one is BunguBox. They have a show exclusive, and that's always very, very popular, and always very well done. Eboya usually has, I wouldn't call them maybe show exclusives, but they're like first sneak peeks, right? So you can buy them at the show, and at a later date, you can buy them on their website. So those two, I think, are really good. And then Toyoka Craft, Toyoka Craft also, they had like pen show exclusives last year, but it's mostly like the lining cover, and they do not sell out on Friday morning.

Brad Dowdy: So that was one of my big takeaways from the San Francisco pen show, is I was so happy they were there, and I was so glad to see the reception. I mean, and they're well-received anytime they show up, but to see it actually in person, to actually see that happen live, it was kind of something to behold for me. That was one of my bigger takeaways from the show itself. So I want to get your takeaways, like your main takeaways here in a second, but I wanted to ask you something about community between the U.S. markets and the Japanese market. So you mentioned like the shows here in the U.S. have a more community feel, but outside of the shows in Japan, it seems like everyone who's in the stationary community, everyone's pretty dialed into like what store is doing what, what events are going on. And how does, is that a valid observation, like the online stationary community and the kind of the store intertwining and sharing of information between, you know, what's going on in the stationary community online in Japan, like a pretty big deal, easy to follow, easy to track everyone, kind of keeping everybody in the loop.

CY: Yeah, I think because there are so many product releases that, that there's a lot of excitement going on just around the retailers, which is great. But community in the U.S. is more like, oh, this person online, I saw that they have this product. And then you might meet them at a pen show and be like, oh, I've been, you know, following you for a long time. And then you might talk to somebody else. They say, oh yeah, I saw it on this person's feed. In Japan, it's, it's less like that. It would more be like, oh, I saw this on this retailer's website. And I think it has to do with one,

CY: it's, it's just a different culture, right? There, there's more of a reserved culture.

CY: So it's not as, let's say, outgoing, more inward looking, but then also, I guess, related to it is that a lot of people like to be very anonymous online.

CY: Especially in, in Japan. So, you know, you have people, and Twitter is actually where most of the Japanese community lives, but they might not know each other's faces. They, they don't know each other's names. And I just came back from a, from a Wagner event. and, um, I met a bunch of high school students and I love it. And, you know, they were making these grinding machines and I, I got to talk with one of these, uh, these students. Later, I followed them on, on Twitter. And, uh, I saw that they were commenting on these other Twitter users, um, tweets, think, oh, so you're the person that did this. So, you know, the community, I think, is still very, uh, nascent. That's an SAT word.

CY: I'm down, I'm down with that one. Yes. Yeah. Still very nascent, but, but what I was very encouraged at, uh, especially this last Wagner that I went to is, um, the number of young people, number of students, and these people were so willing to experiment. So I think give it five to 10 years, you know, tips is going to be able to grow that community. However, I think you really need, um, the stores also to facilitate, to create spaces for that. Japan doesn't have the space for you to just hang out. Right. So, so you've got to be deliberate about designing those spaces. Whereas in the U S I think it's a little bit easier because if there's a store, it might be the only store in, you know, the state. And then, and then you all just have to go there.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Right. And that's why like you and I talk about this and, and I've said it to, to, to the drum goals, uh, to, to Larry and Michael, like you walk into the store on a Saturday and there's just like a cooler there with like drinks in for just, you know, for people just coming to hang out. Cause they know people are going to be there all day. So they're just like making it easy for you to just come hang out there and just have this whole communal aspect about it. And it's great to see. It's great to see. All right. So what was, what was the big highlights for you aside from hanging out with me in San Francisco? So that's number one was your main highlight. So it's like starting at like number two highlights, uh, of your trip. Uh, what were your, your main takeaways from, I guess like five weeks in the U S.

CY: So I went to, to Disneyland. And I, I,

Brad Dowdy: I,

CY: I customized a lightsaber and now I am a nib Sith.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. Yes. That was one of my favorite pictures, um, that I took at the show was just this completely accidental. Like that was literally, we're closing. We're trying to go to dinner on Sunday night. Yeah. Let me, this is a little bit behind the scenes and everyone is ticked at CY because he, he's just working. Like he's working, you know, like CY is like taking care of customers. CY is doing his job. Right. And April's like, I have to fly out. We're going to dinner. Like, come on everybody. And then CY breaks out the lightsaber right there at the end. I just happened to be there to catch it. It was great. And she's like, I'm taking the Uber now.

Speaker 00: Yeah. She, she left us.

Brad Dowdy: Shout out to shout out to April. She made all the right decisions. So yeah, it was a good move. To leave us behind.

CY: April was, was great. She planned everything. I'm pretty sure, you know, the world runs just because April is in existence.

Brad Dowdy: This is factually correct. What a just whirlwind of awesomeness. She is. So yeah. What other, what other big takeaways just broadly, broadly speaking? Just meeting,

CY: meeting listeners, actually.

CY: It's humbling. It's, it's, it's incredible. It's, it's my first time really meeting listeners in, in real life. And, or at least so many of them. And yeah, it's, it's just, you know what, um, kind of related to this, this, this person's not a listener, but, um, first let me, let me talk about the listeners. So, so listeners just recognizing me by voice. I think that's, that's incredible. And it makes me realize that, you know, what we're, what we're doing, the product that we're putting out, and I call it product. We don't make any money on it, but you know, the, the, the thing that we're, we're producing, um, brings joy to people's lives. That that's, uh, I don't think there is something more meaningful that you can do with your life. Um, so, so that was, uh, that was huge. And, and a specific episode that I want to talk about, what's that? Drum goals. Um, and this 91 year old man handed me his Lamy 2000. He said, um, my late wife bought this for me as a present back in 62. Wow. And, uh, and it writes too broad, sent it to Lamy. They said they can't get any thinner and I can't use it. Would you be able to help me out? So I did a size reduction on this, uh, Lamy 2000, not a difficult thing to do, but boy, was I clenching my butt. Yeah. Yeah. That's a different level. Right. And, and, and, you know, when I handed it back to him, um, he wrote with it, it, and he said, you know, he said, thank you. Now I, I have a memento to, to remember my wife by. And I think in, in this industry, in this business, we are not, we are not changing the world, you know, and like, we're not going to bring world peace. We're not, you know, solving world hunger, but, but we're changing somebody's world. Um, somebody is going to have a better day just because they're listening to this podcast. Um, you know, listening to us drone on for 70 minutes is, uh, you know, it's, it's going to hopefully, uh, make somebody's bad day a good one. So I think really the realization that we're actually doing good for people. Um, yeah, that's, that's very humbling.

Brad Dowdy: It definitely hits home when you're able to get out into a different area. Right. Then you're, then, you know, the walls of your home or apartment or the town that you live in and to, to get out, it really, really kind of hits home a little bit when you're, you're able to do that. So good. I'm glad like, that's like the biggest takeaway experience, um, is that you do, you know, have fun what you're doing and it does make up, put smiles on other people's faces. And at the end of the day, like that's the most important thing. And that's what we try to represent. And I know that's what you try to represent as well. And it's just really cool to now you've got that story, right? Like, and, and now that person has their story too. And, uh, it's just really cool to be part of that. So really, really great. All right. I realized one of the things, uh, preparing for this show, we're, we're going to throw it to a break here in a second. Okay. Okay. I think because like, Oh, we're, we're like, yeah. Do you have like, you know, a few more minutes to talk about personal stuff? I have unlimited time. Yeah. Cause I realized that I, for all I know about you and all the time I've spent with you, I want to know more about what CY likes to use himself. So before that, we're going to toss it over last break of the show. Promise, promise, but we're going, we're going long. We knew we were going long. So we spread this out. So let me take a break real quick and, uh, we'll be right back.

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Brad Dowdy: All right, CY, I want to know what your favorite pen is.

Brad Dowdy: That's a hard one. Isn't it? It's the hardest question you can probably be asked.

CY: Well, the answer is it depends. And what it depends on is what have I bought the most recently?

CY: Other than that, I think...

Brad Dowdy: So let me reframe it for you. What do you use a pen for when you're not working on a pen, right? What kind of pens are you reaching for when you're not actively manipulating them?

CY: I like right now one of my absolute favorite pens. And this pen gave me a real different experience. It's a 149 adorned with maquillage by a studia in Wajma. And it has a super sharp oblique italic nib on it. And I like to use it just to practice more calligraphic writing. I'm really trying to get more into that part of the world. So that's what I really enjoy right now. Otherwise, I enjoy me some extra needlepoint flex nibs. Again, that's really to get me into that world of calligraphy. I'm still pretty rubbish at it.

CY: But yeah, at least those are the tools.

Brad Dowdy: Let me prop you up on your calligraphy real quick. So a lot of times, if CY and I were out to dinner with a bunch of friends, and a lot of times at these pen shows, people will pass around their notebooks just to like, hey, can you sign my notebook? Or just write a note to say, we're at the pen show. And this is my little diary from the pen show. Can you add something to it? So I would be just like, hey, it was great meeting you at the pen show and my little handwriting. And then I'd hand it over to CY. And then 30 minutes later, it would come back. And he's got this whole calligraphic writing, just dunking on everyone who's written next to him in the notebook. But this is a whole beautiful little piece over there. So yeah, good job. You are definitely practicing it and putting it to good use. So I got a kick out of that.

CY: So it's really something that I think has a lot of potential. And I'm actually going to try to do, well, it would be last weekend already for the listeners. But I'm going to try to put out a little instructable. Okay. A live instructable probably on Twitch to show people how to use FlexNibs. I think there's a lot of mystique around FlexNibs, but nobody knows how to use them somehow. So I think just going through the theory basics, stuff like that. But that's something that I really like to use for myself as well. And it's really something that I think has a lot of potential for us.

Brad Dowdy: All right. So along the same lines, outside of pens, what inks and what stationary paper products do you find interesting? Maybe just that's in Japan that hasn't kind of caught on around the rest of the world or has started to come on? What are you seeing that interests you right now? And it doesn't even necessarily have to be from a pen basis.

CY: Yeah. So personally, I really like purple inks. I like desaturated inks. Desaturated inks really show that color shifting, chroma shading very well. So I like those. Unfortunately, all I use is blue because that's what I use to test pens.

CY: But yeah, that's something that I really like. I don't know if it's not caught on in the US. But oh, and you know what? This I think is really cool. Wearing Gull, they make these inks that are themed after literature. So they have like Alice in Wonderland. They have like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. And their whole concept is you add stuff to the ink to change it. So I think they came out with an Alice in Wonderland thing. And it was like Becoming Witch or something. And it's just one bottle of ink and then four different types of shimmer. And depending on the shimmer that you add to it, you are a different type of witch. Nice. And that's, I think, really, really cool. That interactive, that playfulness with the products. I think the Korean ink manufacturers are just superb. Superb at it.

Brad Dowdy: I actually picked up the little added shimmer from Bangu Box in San Francisco for one of their ink lineups. And they had like swabs of here's this ink with all of these different shimmers in it. And it's interesting to see like that aspect, you know, like you're saying, like the Korean ink makers really leaning into like the customization, the creativity. And that market is really huge over there. Like we've talked, like I've listened to y'all talk about the glass dip nip pens just like blowing up over there in the Japanese and Asian market in general. As opposed to like in the U.S. where it's not necessarily a thing, but it's like a huge thing right in your market.

CY: Yeah, absolutely. And I went to Marizen just yesterday. First day of the Autumn Marizen Pen Fair. And glass pens are everywhere now. Like every single row had a glass pen. And that's just, you know, it's just where the market is. And I think it's very fun and interactive. And, you know, you can really collect a lot of those because they all look different.

Brad Dowdy: Right. And honestly, it's quick and simple. Like in relation to a fountain pen, getting someone into like a $200 fountain pen with like extra mechanics and extra maintenance. And like, you know, we're used to that now. It's like not a big deal. Right. And once you get into it, it's like a non-issue to like clean a fountain pen or change in ink. But getting people into just, hey, here's this really, really simple way to express yourself. Like, I think it's fantastic.

CY: So, Brad, I'm going to send you a link on Twitter.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

CY: Like you'd just click on that link.

Brad Dowdy: Let's do this. We're doing this live on the show.

Brad Dowdy: All right. We got it.

CY: That's a glass pen.

Brad Dowdy: So, we will have this link in the show notes. We're going to keep this up. I am transfixed at what is happening on my screen. I am. Look, this is what we're going to do. I am not going to explain this on the show because it's unexplainable. Right. So, I will put this in the show, in the show notes. Y'all make sure to go click on this link when CY mentions this. And I am. Wow. There are no words to what's happening here. So, the level of artistry in these glass dip manufacturers is outstanding. Like, it's outrageous. It's extraordinarily high tech for a simple mechanism, right? Like, that's what's fascinating about this. Like, this is simple stuff that artisans are making into, like, their own creations. It's beautiful. So, this leads perfectly. And it's like, how jealous should I be that I'm not literally surrounded by this stuff all the time? Like, you just casually keep dropping, yeah, I went over to Morazon and did this yesterday. I was like, come on, man. It's like, this is unfair. This is unfair. Like, how jealous should I be? I think pretty jealous is the answer.

Brad Dowdy: Or how broke would I be is probably the better question.

CY: Yeah, I think your wallet is probably pretty happy that you're not here. I think that's really, you know the saying, distance makes the heart grow fonder?

Brad Dowdy: Yes, yeah.

CY: I think there's a little bit of that. And I think, you know, at San Francisco, there's a huge kind of fever for Japanese products. I think the reason is because you can't get it every day, but it's just close enough that if you wait a while, you know, you might be able to just reach out your hand and aspire to it.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

CY: And I think, you know, we are obviously very lucky in many ways to have so much stationery around us. But I think if you are here, if Bradley Dowdy was born in Japan, the pen addict wouldn't exist. Because it would just be normal.

Brad Dowdy: It would just be normal. That goes back to our conversation at the beginning, right? Like, you don't know it's different, right? It's just what you do. It's what you have. And it's really cool. And, you know, that distance that you mentioned, like, it's, you know, that's what gets my brain going. And it's like, oh, it's fascinating. But, like, if you lived in it every day, like, it would be the norm. And, like, I think there's a lot of value in that. So, yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. All right. See why. We're not going to let you go yet. Because I need to know, what does the future look like for you, for Tokyo Station, for Tokyo Inklings? Do you ever think about, like, hey, I'm really enjoying this. I'm having fun being part of this community. What is next for you? Are we going into, like, really, really mad scientist nib mode, nib Sith, if you will? Or what's kind of, what are you thinking about these days?

CY: Yeah. I've been doing this long enough to understand that it's not, like, a fad for me. Mm-hmm. Because sometimes, you know, you're really into something and then you're just like, okay, you know, now it's time to back off. Right. But I've been doing this every day for the last five years, right? Something that I really, I heard on a TikTok somewhere. They say, hey, how do you manage getting burned out? And, of course, you know, there are periods of time where I just don't work. And then there are other periods of time where I, you know, work the entire day. But I saw this quote on TikTok and said, it says, how do you know you are ready to go pro at something? And this person on TikTok, they said, you can't get tired of shooting hoops in the local basketball court. You can't get burned out by shooting hoops in the local basketball court if you want to go pro. Because you're going to be shooting a lot more hoops, right? Right.

Brad Dowdy: It's just the beginning.

CY: So, in that way, I think I do a good job at regulating myself, at working too much, but not too much to the point where I say, you know what? I've had enough of this. And people like that do exist, right? There are pen makers. There are nib makers who just push themselves too hard and decide that they can go on. So, I think I do a good job at regulating myself. I give myself several hours in the day specifically only to wind down and to relax and play video games. I work all the time, but I also dedicate parts of the day just to me where it doesn't belong to anybody else. And I work when I want to because I think that's when I make my best work. So, I've been doing this, you know, trying to balance work and life and then the main job for a while. To know that this is more than a fad. In the future, I'm hoping that this will replace my day job and really go into, you know, the industry, the business of it. I think I have a good base. I have a good foundation because I already have customers. I already have people who know me. I'm not going into this blind. Right. But there is still a lot of work. There's a lot of capital that needs to be considered. Brett, you've made products. So, you know, the scariest thing is inventory, right? Yes. You know me very well. So, I think there needs to be a balance. And I'm slowly working on getting there. And I'm very lucky to have a lot of people who support me, who are willing to collaborate with me, who are willing to put money into me. And I'm very grateful for that. The second part, I think, is really about, you know, what about my activities? And I think in the future, I did five weeks this time. If I were to go full time, I would probably do seven to eight weeks in the United States.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

CY: Because the tickets are just extremely expensive. So, it has to be worth it for me. I talked a little bit about the economics of going to the pen shows this time. I actually lost money going. I mean, I, you know, I earned a lot of money. But a lot of that is in the products that I invested maybe two years ago or three years ago. Brought them over and then they sold. But they maybe a little bit less than covered my flights. So, maybe longer, less intensity. Right. More stores, more retailers. I found that a lot of people who weren't able to go to shows but were able to go to the retailers really appreciated that. You know, I was able to go around to the different retailers.

CY: And maybe do something in like Canada as well, right? So, that would be a good way kind of on my way home.

CY: Lastly, I think it's all about cutting deals with retailers. You need the support of retailers if you want to survive, I think, in the business because you need a distribution channel. And you need people who, if you want to scale, you can't be the one on the sales floor yourself 24-7. Right. And the grinding stuff, that's me on the floor 24-7, right? I love doing the grinding stuff. But there's a cap to how much money can be made just by grinding. Right. Because there's physically a limited number of hours in the day. Yes, that's math you can do pretty easily. Yeah. Yeah. So, I need to create my own product. I need to diversify. And hopefully, in five years, I won't be the one that's doing every single grind. I'll do some of them. But hopefully, I'll be able to find somebody, maybe a high school student that I met in Wagner to help me out, to join me in this business. And I'm looking forward to building a business where the business belongs to employees. I'm very interested in the organization building, organization creating aspect of that. And I want to show people that there's money to be made here so that more people want to be in the business, raise the profile so that I don't get on an Uber. And, you know, the driver says, what's a fountain pen? Right. Never heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think, you know, one step at a time. If I can only take one week in the U.S., I'll just have to have my mother fly out to San Francisco, I guess.

CY: The trip there is just so much easier. The trip out to D.C. is like 14 hours, and it's a nightmare. To San Francisco, only eight hours.

Brad Dowdy: Yep.

CY: Yep.

Brad Dowdy: Well, I love following your journey. You are definitely on the right path. We are lucky to have you in our community and creating and sharing and entertaining us. And I'm lucky to have you in my life to call you a friend. And it was great to finally spend some time in person with you. And I know it won't be the last time. It won't be the last time you're on the show. It will not be the last time we see each other in person. And I just, again, wanted to thank you so much for everything you do for all of us, really. Not just me individually, but, like, literally our community, the stationary community, is better off for having people like you in it. So thank you so much for doing everything that you do. I really, really mean that.

CY expresses gratitude for the Pen Addict podcast's impact on pen-centric content creators.

CY: And thank you, Brad. Without the pen addict, I think a lot of us pen-centric content creators wouldn't exist. So thank you. You demonstrated that it is possible to do a podcast about pens without looking at the products.

Brad Dowdy: Who knew? Who knew that the worst idea ever was actually pretty okay? All right. We'll leave it there. Tell everyone where they can find you. I'll have all these links in the show notes. But just give yourself a shout-out everywhere you want to plug. And we'll make sure to include it.

CY: Sure. So my name is Siwa. You can find me on my website at tokyostationpens.com. On Instagram and TikTok at Tokyo Station Pens. And on Twitter at Tokyo Station MNH. I'd also like to shout-out my excellent podcast partner, Jacob. He's at FoodFan. He has a blog at foodfan.com. As well as the rest of the Tokyo crew. I'm Quay at MiraiCat. And Alisa at InkyRocks.

Brad Dowdy: Got it. Love it. And I'm Brad. One of the hosts of the Pen Addict podcast. Actually, you're Bradley. I am Bradley. Technically correct. I am Bradley Dowdy. You can find me on Instagram and Twitch at Pen Addict. I'm on Twitter at Dowdyism. D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M. And I'm online at penaddict.com. And until next time, say goodbye, CY. Goodbye, CY.