The Pen Addict 447/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	447
Title:	Global Monetary Markets
Release Date:	February 3rd, 2021
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 447
Audio File:	Audio Episode 447
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 447
Length:	5555 min <br />0.917 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 447, and today's show is brought to you by our friends at Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad. Hey Myke, how's it going? Good, how are you? Good, I think. You know, I'm writing more, which is good. I've inked up a second and now a third fountain pen. This escalates quickly. What is 2 and 3? Tell me.

Brad Dowdy: 2 is the AutoHut Design 03 with Mont Blanc Petrol Blue.

Myke Hurley: Oh, I remember this.

Brad Dowdy: That's a pen that I was set up to review right before I broke my wrist and I hadn't done any of the writing samples for it. And that pen deserved, you know, some good writing samples. So, I just basically put it on hold until I was back to writing normal again. So, now it is back and I'll be reviewing that next week on the blog. And actually, we'll probably talk about that next week on the blog because I think it's interesting.

Myke Hurley: I'm intrigued because I don't know why I should be excited about it. Because, you know, I've tried AutoHut products in the past and haven't been super into them. Agreed. And so, I remember when we were looking at this, I think we were both a little bit like, oh, okay. Right? Like, the design of it is simple but classic. So, I'm intrigued to see what you think about it.

Brad Dowdy: And I didn't know they made a pen that looked like this until our friend Dries at the Pencil Case blog did a review of it. I was like, oh, really? This is part of their product lineup. I was like, okay. Now, I'm interested. You know, now maybe we can have a conversation. So, we'll save that topic for a future podcast. I also inked up, should I tell you? I'm going to hold this. I'm going to hold the third one because it's going to come up in our conversation later. Well, I'm looking at your Instagram right now.

Myke Hurley: So, I've got a pretty good guess as to what it is.

Pricing Discussion

Brad Dowdy: Well, yeah. So, but it's part of the bigger conversation that I want to have today around pricing. Okay. You ready to get into this? Yep. Yeah. So, I have a lot of thoughts I've had in the past week and in relation to price increases. And this came about because of Sailor's approximately 30% price increase on the North American.

Myke Hurley: 2021 pen of the year. 2021 pen of the year. Pen of the year.

Brad Dowdy: Monte. Grappa. So, and this isn't like a specific diatribe on Sailor. Like what they did was perfectly fine, right? I had more. I don't have problems with what. I have problems with how and things like that. So, just to recap, you know, Sailor's new directive to, this is, I guess I should clarify, this is Sailor North America. Where this price increase showed up was a 30% price increase on, you know, these new 1911 and Pro Gear models. And so, the question was, hey, this is about 30%. That's a big increase. What's the deal? So, they didn't answer that in their first post. And then came out with a video on Instagram earlier this week saying, you know, it's, well, the pandemics, you know, hurt all businesses and gold prices are gone up, which they have. So, like, perfectly valid. Like, I'm not knocking the price increase.

Brad Dowdy: Businesses have to do that, right? Like, you know, many companies are going to have price increases for 2021 Pelican, Pilot, Platinum. You know, probably a whole list of companies are going to have price increases this year. But I guess my wish is, which is a pipe dream, is that everyone would take more of a Pelican path to these announcements. So, what Pelican does is once a year, usually at the beginning of the year, the announcement comes from the corporate office, not the distributors. They lay out a chart of the entirety of their product price increases on every product line that they have and the reasoning behind these increases. You know, is it raw materials cost? Is it the cost of doing business in the pandemic? On and on and on. And they throw it out there from the highest level, right? You're not getting this from the distributor. You know, the corporate business is taking that conversation and taking that hit, saying, here's what it is. Here's why. And that's it. Like, cool. We're done now, right? So, like, the surprises are not very fun from a customer perspective. When you see, holy cow, why did this happen? And there's crickets, you know? So, I wish, you know, my dream scenario would be, like, why couldn't Sailor just come out with that? And, well, that's probably not a very Japanese thing to do. We're going to talk about that more. And no one, I mean, no one wants to hear about a price increase, right? As consumers are like, oh, 10 more percent for Pelican. But, you know, that's part of the business. You know, Sailor chose to do it in a new product reveal. Just didn't even mention the price increase. Just gave a new number that was such an outlier. It kind of took me and a lot of people back. And there was no conversation around that. Like, no commentary on a 30% price increase that got dropped out of the blue. Then you have other companies, our good friends at Platinum Myke, who raised the price exorbitantly, remove the retail discount off the MSRP and say, this pin, this is the Sheen from last year. You know, our purple Platinum pin that I was all up in arms about.

Brad Dowdy: And they removed the 20% discount off MSRP and tell customers that they're not going to discount that pin. Then they don't sell enough of that pin. And then they discount the pin. So, now it's currently 20% off MSRP. Like, what kind of relationship are you building with your customer base when you do that? So, pricing is always fun to talk about. And what I want to focus on today, I think, is kind of the bigger picture of raising prices and how it affects retailers and eventually us as consumers. Because that's where my concern lies. Okay. Right? Like, these are just like, these are my general thoughts. Like, I'm not an expert in this. And every business has to run on how it has to run. And every business is, it's completely acceptable to raise prices as your costs increase. So, if you have any feedback on, like, any of the rest of this conversation or any of this conversation at all, please let me know. Like, I'm no expert at this. So, I just want to lay out kind of an example of what I'm thinking about to kind of get to an endgame question that I have and that I'm thinking about. So, let's just imagine 10 manufacturers raised their prices in 2021, like stationary manufacturers, right? And all those manufacturers raise their prices, say, from like 10% like a Pelican to 30% like Saylor. There's just a whole range of a bunch of companies raising prices. It could be because of the global pandemic. The cost of doing business is now greater, right? Which is valid. The cost of raw materials is valid, right? You know, gold is not an infinite resource. Gold is also tied into global monetary markets, which is a whole other conversation that I have no ability to speak about consistently. But, you know, and a lot of these bigger companies also use distributors. So, like, the distributors are kind of in the middle there, but I'm not sure that, like, the distributor model matters for this discussion. What I think does matter is that the retailers not only have to absorb a few price increases, but a bunch of price increases, right? So, how does, let's just call them Retailer X. It's how Retailer X is now absorbing Saylor's price increase and Pelican's price increase and Pilot's price increase and Platinum's price increase. Well, they don't have to absorb them. Right. So, that's part of the conversation, right? They don't have to. But they're getting hit with these huge group of increases and they have decisions to make then, right? So, maybe, you know, if I'm just using Saylor, for example, not, you know, no commentary on that. But what if they can only order 20 pins now instead of 30, right? So, their capital is tied up in fewer, in lesser inventory, right? And then that extrapolates across the board for every product that they carry or maybe they decide, like you say, to drop them. So, in theory, the profit's the same, right?

Myke Hurley: Well, I wasn't saying about dropping. My point was they could just increase the price to the consumer, the distributor.

Brad Dowdy: Yes, which we're already assuming that's baked in. Right. All retailers are going to, are playing from the same playbook. Right. Right. So, because they would, then they will not be allowed to sell the products if they do not play by the playbook. That's a whole nother conversation. So, now Retailer X has 20 units instead of 30. And those 20 units are 30% more than last year's units. And do they lose sales because there's lesser options? Do they sell less because the price is more? And then does that compound across every product line that they sell, right? So, now so many prices are getting raised. So much capital is getting tied up. And then you can't forget that the consumer also has to agree to pay the new price, right? What if you can't, what if you're buying, you're spending the same amount of pens that gets you less pens, spending the same amount of money as a retailer. You're getting now 20 pens instead of 30. But the consumer now has decided, well, that's a bridge too far on the prices. You know, just a couple years ago, there was a Japanese pen super fan, you know, let's call him Brad. And I would, I would happily buy, you know, two or three sailor pens, you know, maybe a platinum pen, you know, one of the limited editions or a new pilot pen. And, you know, I have a pretty good budget. Like, I spend a lot on fountain pens. And that budget might be the same this year for me, but now that budget gets me three pens instead of five pens. And I wonder how this affects retailers because they have maybe less inventory. They maybe have less turnover in inventory. And does this continue to compound as prices continue to rise? I don't know. I think I'm just, I'm saying this out loud because I don't have an answer. But this is what I think about, right? When you get hit with a swath of price increases that are getting passed down from corporate to distributor to retailer to the consumer, in the end, we're the ones making the decisions to buy the product. And now my money doesn't go as far. I mean, and this is the story of the economic world, right? And, you know, ever since we've traded, you know, traded money for products, right? Prices go up. Consumers have a decision to make. But we also got to remember, we're in a luxury market here. We're in a non-essential luxury market here, right? So the manufacturers that have raised all these prices, guess what? They're not the only ones who had a tough time during the pandemic. What about the consumers? Consumers, you know, weren't popping bottles during the pandemic, you know? So the manufacturers, okay, sure, your price, your cost of business went up during the pandemic. But the spending power of the consumer also went down.

Myke Hurley: Well, that's, I mean, I want to be realistic with you. That's dependent. That's not, that's not universally true. Like, there is definitely a lot of people that their spending power changed. But realistically, a lot of people who have stable work have more disposable income right now. I agree. Because they're not spending money on outdoor luxuries.

Brad Dowdy: I agree. And that's why in 2020, we saw pen retail do okay.

Myke Hurley: Mm-hmm.

Brad Dowdy: Right? This is a luxury good that people could-

Myke Hurley: I bet it did better than okay for some people. Yeah. Because, I mean, like, you know, like, for me, getting into new hobbies, people got into new hobbies. They wanted things to do, and retail therapy was a way to do that. And any business that was already well-established for online sale had the opportunity to do well. And I expect quite a lot of pen retailers did do pretty well.

Brad Dowdy: I agree. 100% agree. But I'm also looking, you know, three to five years down the line. Yes. And that's the conversation I want to have today because prices are increasing today. The cost of doing business improves in two years. The cost of gold drops 20%. Are we going to get a decrease in prices? Are retailers going to come out and say, hey, we're dropping the price 10% this year? Get you some of that.

Sales Flexibility

Myke Hurley: No, it depends, doesn't it? I mean- Oh, they're not.

Brad Dowdy: There's no it depends on that one. They're absolutely not.

Myke Hurley: Well, there would be if sales declined after the price increases. They would reduce the prices.

Brad Dowdy: Right. So, like, that's the position I think we're just starting to find out right now. Yeah. Right? Because the prices are raising across the board.

Myke Hurley: My expectation, Brad, is there is still a flexibility in the top level of price that a lot of pen companies could charge for their products. And I think that they're going to try and start finding that out. I think for a lot of products from a lot of the larger companies, there is a 10% to 20% margin gain that they could see if they really wanted to push it. They're going to upset some people. But I think that these are the market forces at play.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, let's be clear that they're going to upset some people. That's a super tiny fraction. Don't think I don't understand the tiny fraction of business that we are to any of these manufacturers, right?

Myke Hurley: I think one of the things is, though, a lot of people don't notice. I wouldn't notice because I don't, like, pay super attention to how much was this Sailor product before. Like, I judge every product on its price as I see it, right? Right. And for me, and I expect for a lot of people, as somebody that really loves products by brand X or Y, I would be willing to pay a little more because I already know I love it so much. So I already know the value exchange. Yeah. And, you know, what was the difference in that 1911?

Brad Dowdy: About 30%.

Myke Hurley: And so what did that work out to be?

Brad Dowdy: I got it right here. So the new one is $392. The previous one was $312.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, you see, I would look at that, right?

Price Increase Example

Brad Dowdy: That's a year over year increase. That's too much.

Myke Hurley: Where I would be like, oh, I don't know. But I wouldn't think to myself, I don't know if I'd think to myself necessarily, like, that's more than before. I would just look at it and be like, ah, this one I'll skip for $392. But if it was like $332, I wouldn't notice. We're not even having this conversation. Mm-hmm. And that's what happened with Platinum last year. My point to you is not so much arguing for Sailor's increase specifically. It's more kind of, if we're looking at the economics of this industry, I think that there is room to play. But I think that these specific increases for Sailor are too much. 30% is a lot to do at once. But I think you could get 10% to 20% increase in without too many people batting an eyelid.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And the Sailor in particular, those are coming top down from Sailor Corporate, right? This is going to be an across-the-world price increase for the pin products. I don't know about the other products that they sell.

Myke Hurley: Well, maybe this is a directive from the proposed new ownership.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. Let's be clear. These big companies are responsible to their shareholders. Mm-hmm. I want to be perfectly clear when I talk about-

Myke Hurley: And we know Sailor has not been making money.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Right. So they have to raise prices. I have no problem with the raising prices. But I think it's fair to ask what pressure does this put on retail and consumer in the next few years? Like, today, it's not a problem. Like, this luxury good was pretty stable in a global pandemic. Yep. I would say. Yep. So that bodes well for the future. But I think there's a tipping point. Like, it's starting to feel different to me. Like, I'm a very feel type of person. Right. Like, it's starting to feel that certain pens are no longer worth the money that I want to spend. And I spend a lot of money on pens. And I've bought, you know, very, very expensive pens that I was happy to pay a lot of money for. Mm-hmm. But I think the tides are kind of turning a little bit. So I don't know. I guess I just wonder where this leaves us, like, in the next few years. Like, not today. Right. Like, price... I mean, it's inevitable that prices are going to go up. But I think the scale and scope are starting to make me a little bit nervous in the grand scheme for stationary consumers. So does this mean that, you know, Twisby blows up because they make a good product at a, you know, more expensive price? And their prices go up, right? But it's a different scale. Like, I don't know. I don't know how this plays out. And maybe nothing. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I... I don't know. But, like, this price range where Sailor's at now, it was already an expensive product. Now it's an even more expensive. It just makes me think about how many price increases we can handle as a retail and as a community. Mm-hmm. So I don't know. I don't have any answers. I don't have any answers behind that. But it's starting to feel different to me in the prices that we're seeing. So I guess that's it. Like, I could ramble, like, forever. Like, you know, just because I don't know. But what I'm saying is it feels different. Like, it started kind of with that platinum price increase last year. It's like, what are they doing? Like, price increase is one thing, but, like, I don't know. It was like 50 or 70% increase. And it was like, what is happening here? And then you have to go back on your word because you overshot, right? They went back on their word. They just did.

Myke Hurley: Right.

Brad Dowdy: So I don't know what that means. Like, what are they trying to do? And I don't know. I overthink these things, but I just want this to be, like, a healthy retail environment. But I also understand that it's a global retail environment and a luxury goods, non-essential retail environment. So there's a little bit different rules, but I'm starting to get uncomfortable with some of the pricing. And, like, we're going to talk about some expensive pens later in this show. And it's like, that's a lot. It's a lot. So I'm just, I guess it's really hitting home seeing some of these numbers here recently.

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Platinum Limited Edition

Brad Dowdy: I'm very curious about this next topic, Myke, because this came about like last year's came about, and this is Platinum's next limited edition pen that they've been working on. This is in the Shiyun, Kumpu, Shungyo category of the annual big release. And this one's called Kinshu. It looks like it's like a maple leaf, autumn leaf type of thing. Very nice, deep red, red and like kind of red and gold, like a fall landscape picture, you know, sunset or sunrise. It's very, very pretty. What I don't know is the pricing on this because I'm seeing the documentation, like the PR doc, and I couldn't find a better version than the one I found on Twitter.

Myke Hurley: It's also like given the texture of the pen, you can't really see it in these images.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So the images are low quality. Yeah. But it's the full PR doc like we saw for the Shiyun, right? Like it's the same purple, you know, it's the same layout as all the Platinum's documents. I don't have any reason to believe. Yeah. This is the same account that had the one last year that I got all kinds of trouble for.

Myke Hurley: I mean, no one's faking this. I mean, come on. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I don't think there's any money in faking Platinum pen release documentation.

Brad Dowdy: And I think it was about this time of year they announced the Shiyun, right? It was, you know, they do announce them a few months before they go on sale generally. So it looks beautiful. The only thing I'm concerned is like, what's the pricing going to be this year? Like I would be shocked if it was more than last year because there was such a massive increase last year.

Brad Dowdy: But yeah, that looks like it's going to be the next really big limited edition to come out for Platinum. I couldn't find any more. Like I was breaking out all the Google foo last night and I couldn't get there to get any more information with that. But I wanted to put it in the show notes so y'all can see what it looks like and start budgeting now if you are interested in picking that up. It's funny how similar this looks to the next one that I want to bring on, Myke. And this one confused me and caught me off guard and I didn't know what's happening here and I'm not sure that I still do. But this is the Sailor Pro Gear Slim cocktail number two Negroni.

Myke Hurley: Mm-hmm.

Brad Dowdy: So Sailor last year kind of, I don't know if they wrapped up the cocktail series with the 10 pin set that they released last year. You recall that, Myke? They would release the cocktail series pins, you know, like one a year and like for the past 10 years. And then at the end, they released a set of 10.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: So Negroni is outside of that. It's new. It's also a European exclusive.

Brad Dowdy: It's also on the old pricing. So I don't know where this falls in line, but it hasn't, it's been announced. It hasn't launched yet. I think like sites are doing pre-sales. This one's killer looking. Like this is, this is, this is my kind of pin right here. I love it.

Myke Hurley: It's like a deep red, like almost burgundy body with orange finial and a cap. Like tip of, what do we call the top of the cap? Is that a finial too?

Brad Dowdy: I just call them finial. I just call the whole thing the finial. Like the ends of the pins. Yeah. Orange.

Myke Hurley: Nice bright orange.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And then there's like the, I'll call it sometimes like the anchor that's on the top of this, like the anchor logo, like the top disc in the finial. I don't know, like, I don't know the real, real terminology, but I just call the ends.

Myke Hurley: This website, Santa Pluma calls them barrel end buttons.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Okay. I like that barrel end buttons. I'm in. So the barrel end buttons are orange. So this is a European only release. And it's, I think it's great looking. Like I'm, I'm not interested in buying it, but I think it's awesome. Right. I just don't need another pro gear slim as great as the color is, or at least without selling a bunch of them. Um, so yeah, like, but now I'm confused. I was like, they haven't started to sell these yet and it's on the old pricing. So I guess it falls in, you know, they made all these decisions pre price increase. I don't know. I shouldn't, I shouldn't care. Right. Like I shouldn't care about these things, but I can't help but like think I was like, where does this price fall? So I can't help it.

Myke Hurley: Your pricing focus right now.

Kaweco Custom Colors

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. Well, as, as now I'm going to switch pricing focus into product focus, because I think this is the most interesting link this week, Myke, and it is the changes we're going to see in Kaweco's limited editions. Have you had time to even remotely catch up on what they're doing?

Myke Hurley: I looked at the doc, the links that you put in the document this morning.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: So last year we saw this huge increase of Kaweco custom colorways for, you know, it could be a country colorway. It could be a shop colorway. It could be a region colorway. And Kaweco, I think at the time got caught like over promising colors, right? Like making similar colors for different, different regions and, you know, kind of duplicating some things. So they decided that, Hey, we can do that, but we're going to give these products a name and we're going to etch the name on the barrel, like the, what was it? The, the Paladin Evergreen, right? You remember that one, Myke, the, that was the first one. Then they had this espresso one that's out now in the U S the Evergreen was like a Dutch only release or something like that. And it was just, it was weird, right? It felt weird. And, uh, how they were doing that. Guess what, Myke, they're not going to be doing that for going forward for at least 2021. So apparently Kaweco is now saying that was an experiment.

Myke Hurley: Oh, an experiment.

Brad Dowdy: And I'm guessing that means it was a failed experiment. It was a failed experiment is what it was.

Brad Dowdy: Because what they're going to do now, let me see if I can read this. And this is from, uh, Kaweco. Um, this, this was the, so we're about to share a link of what's coming. So it says these sneak preview items, which should not have been shown yet. This is from, uh, uh, Kaweco, uh, employee on, um, on Facebook that a friend sent me these links. Just like all future special, special colors, no more exclusivities and confusion. Just logo branded ones are excluded from this. So that would be like your shop ones. Um, so what they're doing is there is now the Kaweco collection series, which I think is better. Like I, this just came out today. You'll start seeing it. Um, I've seen us and European retailers put out the new Kaweco collection pins on there. So the way I understand this, if it's coming from Kaweco and it's a special edition, it is part of the Kaweco collection series. And that is now stamped on the barrel, Myke. So the barrels, instead of like the, the light, light lavender one, which is, uh, the sport one, it doesn't say Kaweco sport or Kaweco classic on it. It says Kaweco collection. Okay. Okay. And then the violet one, which is the, um, the aluminum model, which is the AL sport. It doesn't say Kaweco AL sport. It says Kaweco collection. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: But why does it also say Germany there? Well, I think they've always said Germany. Well, but not on the plastic one. The plastic one says Kaweco collection. And then the aluminum one says Kaweco collection Germany.

Brad Dowdy: I have no idea.

Myke Hurley: No matter what they do, they cannot, they just can't. I will say I am just much better. Kaweco collection. The word collection is styled exactly the same as the Kaweco logo. Yes. They've done, you know, it's, it's, it works now. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Last year they were using different fonts.

Myke Hurley: My problem was always the fonts, not the words. Right. Correct. And it just screwed with the design. It's much more in keeping. Uh, and also I like that they are distinguishing between Kaweco special editions and Kaweco special editions for other people.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. So those are now the two categories instead of whatever they were trying to do. I think they were break, trying to break it down too far and just kind of got caught like this isn't working like this. We got to stop this. We need to refocus and refine what our limited editions are going to be. And I think this is the, I like this a lot better. So like one of the links in the show notes we'll have to the new Galen leather color. Like they did a beautiful cognac last year. They're doing a beautiful purple this year. So Galen still can do whatever colors they want because it's going to be stamped with their brand on it. Like the store brands are going to be different than the Kaweco collection exclusives. Right.

Myke Hurley: So in that way, it's likely to have, I don't know what, like Kaweco on one side and Galen leather on the other side.

Brad Dowdy: Yes, they usually do it on the opposite side facet. So you'll have the Kaweco and then whichever, say it's a store that they work with, that goes on the opposite side. Which in the past, a lot of the store exclusives just had like Kaweco Sport and it was the color. Right. That's where it started to become a problem for Kaweco in differentiating. Hey, what are we, what are we exactly creating here? Yeah. So as a product. So I, I like this. I think this is a good decision. It didn't take them too long to get there. They only had a few, they only had a few named releases out there that just kind of didn't really hit. Like they, it was just kind of felt weird. It looked weird. And I, they've made up for it with this. And of course they crushed it on these new colors. Right. If you're going to come out with a change, come out with like a really super sweet color. Then everyone will just go, Ooh, pretty colors. I don't care what you call it. Give me that one. So I like it. Um, but yeah, these are, I guess, starting pre-orders now kind of worldwide. I haven't looked at the prices to see if these prices have gone up. I actually haven't seen any pricing on these because it was just coming out last night and I didn't have totally have time to dig it, but dig into it. But now that, um, stores are starting to promote them this morning, um, we'll start to see the prices. So speaking of prices, I wanted, I was debating on putting this in there and it's the new Leonardo ebonite pen. Um, so it's the, it's called the Muses ebonite collection and I am just in love with these pens, right? They're just very beautiful. I love ebonite. Not everyone loves ebonite. There's, you know, ebonite can be finished in different ways. It can be manufactured in different ways to where it's light or heavy. Um, it can be polished to be shiny or dull. So there's lots of range. It's not as, they're not as bright colors as acrylics, but the feel is really, really awesome. And I just wanted to, to point out these Leonardo's because I, my, I had a question and I didn't get time to research this enough. I haven't really seen ebonite pens made with this much hardware interlaid between sections of the ebonite. So usually if you see an ebonite pen, it's more singular barrel, right? It's like a singular piece of ebonite and then another singular piece for the cap.

Brad Dowdy: And I'm sure plenty of other companies have, have broken up the ebonite and had like the cap bands and the belly bands and all the different hardware interspersed. Like it's definitely the Leonardo hardware. Everything you've ever seen in a Leonardo hardware is in here. And I was just curious if any other companies that did that, because you, you get like a sailor, it's like a big piece of ebonite and you see other brands. Like if you get it from a boy, it's like a big piece of ebonite, you know, they might add a clip or something like that. These are very, seems to be like a very more complex build, but it's exactly what Leonardo has always offered. They're also $900.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Wait, how much?

Brad Dowdy: That's why I wanted to bring it up. They're $900. Okay.

Myke Hurley: Well, I mean, that makes sense.

Brad Dowdy: I mean, well, 40 of each of four colors. So it's not many pens. Sailor ebonite, king of pens are like $1,500, $1,600. Like it's expensive.

Myke Hurley: I'm not surprised, right? Yeah. That price is not surprising to me because ebonite is one of those materials that you'll pay a lot for. I've never gotten it really. Like I've never really gotten me appeal as to why I would want ebonite so much that I would pay that kind of money. Like that's never, it's never really worked out for me as a thing. Like I've never really considered like, oh, I want that pen because it's an ebonite pen. And it's always been, I want that pen because of what that pen looks like. Yeah. And also for me, most of the pens that I've ever appreciated that are ebonite have something else to them. Like they have a rushi work. And so it's not the ebonite that I care about. You know what I mean? It's the rushi that's done on top of it. I would expect that one of the reasons that you typically don't see so much furniture on an ebonite pen is because typically the brand will let the ebonite be the star. Yes. Right?

Brad Dowdy: Right. That's fair.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So it may be more complicated to do it this way. Maybe it's not. I don't know. Like maybe their process just doesn't really matter what the material is. They know how to make it work. But it is intriguing to me to see so much gold interleaved with the design. I think one of the things about ebonite for me is this type of ebonite where, again, I don't fully understand the makeup of this material. The way that I do other materials. Again, because I'm just not very, I'm not really that excited about it myself. But like the design of these pens, they don't affect me because acrylics look so much more interesting to me. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I think that's fair. It's a, I don't want to say it's an acquired taste for ebonite. It's a different, it's a completely different taste. Right? It's a completely different feel.

Myke Hurley: Like what, what, why would I, why would I appreciate this pen?

Brad Dowdy: Like what is it? It feels completely different than an acrylic pen. Okay. Like just in weight and temperature, you know, it's just kind of, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to explain. Like if you put.

Myke Hurley: Is it heavier than acrylic then?

Brad Dowdy: It can be. And it can't be. Right. It depends on how dense you make the barrel walls. So you can't answer that directly. I have like a full size ebonite pen that I wouldn't say is more heavy than some of my acrylic pens. And feel like I have an Aboya that's just basically a rod of ebonite. Like no hardware except the nib. Right. And it's not very heavy. Like it's not light, but it's, it's standard. Right. It's right there in the middle. But you can get a thicker walled ebonite or you can get like a very, a thinner, like a thinner, you start to run into trouble with ebonite because it's, it's a hardened rubber product. And I don't know, you know, maybe the modern processing of the, of the materials makes it so it doesn't crack easily. But that was historically an issue with ebonite. And it's hard to get colors. You usually don't see a lot of color in ebonite, which is what makes these stand out. Right. These are considered bright for ebonite colors, which is what, which is what draws me like the green yellow one. Like I'm not going to buy one of these pens. They're way too expensive for me. I wouldn't use it enough to, to justify the price. But like the, the kind of the green yellow one, like you don't see that color in ebonite, like with streaks and stripes. That's why I like the agioto ones when they came out. They were so expensive. And that's like an air light ebonite. So it just depends. So ebonite's one of those things you either, it's, it is kind of a love hate thing. You know, people who like it, swear by it. And people, other people, you know, not to put words in your mouth. It's just not like it doesn't pop enough. Right. It's a different material. So they choose not to, you know, own those pens because they just don't really fit my aesthetic style. And, uh, but it's, it's a different feel of a pen. And, uh, I just wanted to point these out because they, I think they're awesome. Like I would love to try one of these out one day. Like I have no intention of owning one at that price. Like it's too crazy, but, um, I thought it was really pretty and I thought it was worth, uh, mentioning in the show notes because I of course love what Leonardo does. It's, it's interesting, um, it's been interesting to watch Leonardo escalate things over the past couple of years. They have, they have put the pedal to the metal and that's one of the things I find interesting in the, the bigger price can conversation, right? They are not a corporation. They're a small maker essentially, right? Handful of employees.

Myke Hurley: They're on the app though.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, you know, like I, I wonder where does that fall in the big picture of the, the, the pricing conversation, you know? A few years down the line because now they're into, Hey, this is, you know, let's see, what is that? Uh, 160 pens at almost a thousand dollars each. Like that's a big jump from where they have been. And, but like, that's their bespoke line or what they don't call it that, but you know what I mean? It's the, it's the, Hey, let's, let's, let's make some magic here and see if we have the customer for that. And it looks like they do based on the feedback. So interesting stuff.

Ask TPA Segment

Myke Hurley: All right. Should we do some ask TPA to finish out today's show?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. Let's knock out a couple. We still have a really long list, which is good. Um, from, yeah, from when I asked for it and didn't answer. That's like, I'm really good at acquiring ask TPA and then not answering ask TPA. Yeah. I haven't checked if our hockey friends have been dabbling in our, in our spreadsheet, but, uh, because that's how behind we are. And yeah, I think I'll let you read this, but this is a good relevant as TPA for today's show.

Myke Hurley: Well, now I'm needing to check if the hockey is back.

Myke Hurley: Are they in here anywhere? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Has anyone asked them a question though? Uh, because it's only them spamming ask us questions at ask TPA. We've never gotten a question for them. And let's see if I can answer it.

Myke Hurley: No, there's just still no questions. Then somebody repeat like, uh, somebody kind of retweet and then two more retweets.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. No one's answering the call for hockey questions. The first question we get, Myke is going in our list and I'm going to answer.

Myke Hurley: 100% we're going to answer it and then we're going to take a clip of the episode and send it to them.

Myke Hurley: It's guerrilla marketing, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Yes, let's do it. All right. What does Joe, Joe have to say?

Myke Hurley: Joe says, I gave myself a little year end bonus and I want to splurge on a real nice pen. I'm thinking Canalea, but I'm open to suggestions. When we last spoke, I mentioned my current favorite pen is the Platinum President with a custom nib grind from Gina. And that's still true. I love my pro gear naturally, but it was this budget I have is between $550 and $700 for something special.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So this is almost a conversation I'd love to have one-on-one. And I know Joe and he might've bought a pen by the time he's asked me this question. But this is the price point where you can do whatever you want. Like you can literally do whatever you want. So what do you want? Do you want, you know, a big, bold nib where the nib is the star of the pen? Do you want the nib to be a great part of the pen, but do you want like a really unique material as part of it? Do you want a large capacity filling system or like some interesting filling systems like Visconti's or, you know, piston fillers like Pelicans and Aurora. So like I put down like a few just like brands. I would start just poking around and getting a feel like this is not a price point where you have to rush into anything, right? The pens that are in this price point are generally available. They're not, you know, like going away tomorrow or anything like that. So you don't have to rush into these decisions. But I put in Pelican M800, especially some of their special editions. They fall in that price range. And I think they're just some of the most classic best writers. Like if you're going to spend money on there, I know you just get completely everything you ever want in a Pelican if you like those nib styles. The Montegrappa Mia, not necessarily the one that I've been flaunting here recently, but they have some gold nib models and some different materials and some silver trim models. I just like the shape and the materials of those. I'll eventually like that might be something I get further down the line, you know, might upgrade my Mia into that. I think you could go Nakaya in this range, right? You can get the entry-level Piclos and some of the other models if that's – that might not be a style you want because it's such a lightweight pen and it's very, very different. And it's not for everybody.

Myke Hurley: I think that – because I was going to say, like I like that somebody's suggestions you pointed out, but I think you made a point there that is important, I think. In a product like this, I think that there's something to be said for buying a pen from a brand you wouldn't normally buy from. And so like Pelican, maybe you don't – Nakaya, Montegrappa, you have Aurora in here too.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. I have the Aurora Optima or the 88. Like those are really great pens.

Myke Hurley: Really great pens from brands that are maybe not as prolific in certain ways. You know, like if you like Platinum and you like Sailor, you probably own a few of them. And like me, right? Right. And I think like Joe. So you kind of get into that. And it seems like Joe is very into the Japanese market with his tastes, like me. Yeah. So if maybe I wanted to buy something more special, I would look to Italy.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm.

Myke Hurley: Or Germany. Yep. Instead. That's a good point. Because it's going to be a pen that stands out in my collection compared to the stuff that is maybe more my typical taste.

Brad Dowdy: Yep, exactly. Like I was going to say, well, if you like the Platinum President, Platinum has killer, killer Macchie and Arushi pens that are in that like $600 to $700 range. But is it that much different than the pen you like? I don't think it's going to stand out. It's time to experiment. Hey, maybe the Pelican. Maybe the Aurora. Maybe the Montegrappa.

Myke Hurley: Because they're going to look different, but they're not going to write different.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So like I'd be willing to have like a longer conversation. Like what specifically would you want to see out of this next pen? Like, you know, is it going to be like an everyday workhorse? You know, is it going to be, you know, I mean, I hope it's an everyday workhorse. Like we should, if we're paying this money, we need to use it. But, you know, so like what are you trying to do with this pen? I was like, is it a work pen? Is it a journaling pen? You know, things like that. So this is like, this is the world is your oyster price point. You can do anything you want. Yeah. So it's awesome. So give me some more feedback, Joe, if you still have questions and you hadn't broke down and bought anything yet.

Myke Hurley: Professor Sass asks, the pen addict got me to start falling in love with pens outside of my standard Cigna 207. And I've even recently started amassing a collection. But there are zero fountain pens in my collection, and I don't think I'm going to be adding any any time soon. Am I wild?

Brad Dowdy: Absolutely not. No. I think it's exceedingly normal.

Myke Hurley: Take your time, if ever. There's no rush.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-mm. Like, literally, like if you don't ever need to purchase a fountain pen. And actually, I wish we talked about more non-fountain pens here, but there's just, we've talked about in the past, like the news moves fast and furious in the fountain pen world, whereas in the gel pen world or the ballpoint pen world, it doesn't necessarily move at that type of pace.

Myke Hurley: No.

Brad Dowdy: So there's less things to talk about. And then you have a pen like the Cigna 207 that's been around for a decade, and it's not going anywhere, and it's one of the best pens out there. What do you need that's better?

Myke Hurley: There's only so many times we can talk about it.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Yep. And like, I put down here, like, I love the Secura Pigma Micron. I don't know how long that pen's been around. It might be two decades. But like, there's not a lot to talk about it more. And there's, it doesn't mean it's not an awesome pen because it's not in the hype train feeds, right? So you're not wild even remotely. I will say, if you want to dabble, this is how it starts. Get a Platinum Preppy. Like, that's the pen that's the closest to like, you know, your Signos, like your finer gel ink pens. But if you like a wider tip pen, it may not be for you. But like, if you wanted to just see what a fountain pen's all about, get something like a, you know, Platinum Preppy. That's like one of the first fountain pens I ever bought. Yeah. Like, but like the Preppy's like five bucks. Yeah. It's like, it's practically the same as like the, the high, the more expensive jet streams on the shelves are practically $5. So it's just something to play around.

Myke Hurley: Two.

Brad Dowdy: Well, they do the, the penmanship and the Plumix.

Myke Hurley: The five, is that what I'm thinking of? I don't know if it's called that in America.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, no, no, no. It's the Varsity in the Pilot. That is not nearly as good a pen as the Preppy, but the Pilot Varsity. Yeah. It's fine. It's a good pen. But like that one, I, I hate people who try that as their first pen. It's very broad and wet. Like it's cool, but, but yeah, but for Professor Sass, you don't have to ever buy a fountain pen and be like a real true fan of pens and stationery. Absolutely not.

Myke Hurley: And Ben asks, do you have any advice on choosing a metal pen with character? I'm considering a brass or copper body pen, maybe the Karos Retract or the Kaweco Sport. What should I know before I buy and will the pen discolor in my hand as it patinas?

Brad Dowdy: So what you should know before buying a metal pen is that weight is going to wildly vary between brands and even within brands, right?

Myke Hurley: The materials.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And then like between like brass and copper and stainless, there is going to be a weight differentiation. So, you know, something, let's just take a Kaweco Sport. Like they have the brass sport. They have the stainless steel sport.

Brad Dowdy: They patina, the brass patinas very well. The copper lily put, I don't know if they still make that one. The copper is going to patina more than the brass in my experience. But you have to figure out the weight that you're looking at. So the bigger pen, say if you have a Karos Retract is not a larger pen. You know, it's on the smaller side. And that's a very nicely weighted pen. But then if you go into something like a bigger pen, like a Karos ink, well, that brass just, it starts to get really, really heavy. And some people love that. You just have to decide, you know, whether you're going to want like the really heavy or just maybe a little bit heavier. And I think like with the Retract and the Sport, both of those are in the moderate range because they're smaller pocketable style pens. Do they smell?

Brad Dowdy: In general, yes. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I can't do brass and copper for myself because I can't stand the smell that it leaves on your hands. So I would typically go with aluminum and maybe titanium.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So they tend not to discolor your hands as it patinas, right? Because there's too much wear and too much friction between your fingers and the pen to actually leave a color. But it does leave a smell. Some are stronger than others. Like some are, and I don't know enough about like the metal processing and the finishing process of metal to know how a difference can be made. But some are lighter. Like I don't find the Kaweco Brass Sport to like really stand out in the smell range. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I assume that there's treatments that can be done. But they do a little bit, right? Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So there's a range. Um, the only, the brass pen I use most regularly is the Y studio brassing fountain pen. And it has just like a pure brass grip section. And it's only got like a tiny bit of scent that like, if I really think about it, I'll notice it, but usually don't. But then I've used like full size brass fountain pens that it's like, or copper, I think copper is probably stronger. So, um, copper probably has a stronger scent and it patinas more. You're going to get a lot more character probably in copper. Um, so yeah, it's just, you need to manage the weight and just decide like, if you're going to go with the smaller pens, like the retractor, the sport, I don't think you're going to have any issue just like picking one up and going and, um, enjoying it. But if you get into bigger fountain pens, then you need to start considering, um, weight differences between brands and, uh, go from there and assume they're all going to smell and, and you just have to decide whether you can deal with that or not.

Myke Hurley: If you would like to send in a question for this show or for hockey advice, just send out a tweet with the hashtag ask TPA. Uh, you can also send them into Brad via email at hello at pen addict.com. Pen addict.com is where you can find Brad's work. I'm looking forward to more reviews from you over the coming weeks, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Yes, for sure. That's going to be exciting.

Myke Hurley: Of course, I go to knock.co. What's going on at knock at the moment?

Brad Dowdy: Oh man, we just, uh, reissued a bunch of found cases, which was some good restock. Um, most of it's gone through right now. The wax canvas Kickstarter project. I'm starting, I'm almost at halfway of receipt of goods, which means I'll be able to start shipping by the end of the month, end of February. And then we'll see what comes next. Hopefully you have some new colors and some, uh, products we haven't stocked in a while. So that's the plans moving and shaking.

Myke Hurley: Uh, you can also find Brad streaming, uh, on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 10 a.m. Eastern at twitch.tv slash pen addict. Uh, I also stream at mike.live as well. Once a week, typically on Fridays, also around 10 a.m. Eastern. Uh, you can find Brad online on Twitter. He is at dowdyism, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M and pen addict on Instagram. And I am I Myke, I-M-Y-K-E. If you want to find, uh, links and information about some of the stuff we've spoken about in today's episode, they'll be on your podcast app of choice or relay.fm slash pen addict slash four four seven. Thank you so much to Squarespace for the support of this episode. And thank you for listening until next time. Say goodbye, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Goodbye, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Bye.