The Pen Addict 523/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	523
Title:	Average is Good
Release Date:	July 27th, 2022
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 523
Audio File:	Audio Episode 523
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 523
Length:	6262 min <br />1.033 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 523. Today's show is brought to you by Pen Chalet and the Kanilea Pen Co. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad Dowdy. Brad Daddy. Yeah, I did it, didn't I? What was that? I messed it up. Yeah. Is that a Freudian slip?

Brad: Uh, well, I didn't want to think about it too hard, but since you said that, now it's an issue, so thanks for that.

Introduction

Myke: Thanks, Brad Daddy. Good morning, good afternoon. Good afternoon, Myke, how are you? I'm good. Now I'm weird, but I'm good.

Brad: I mean, we do do a weird, this is kind of a weird podcast, which we're going to get to talk about specifically a weird thing that happened to us this morning. So, uh, we'll, we'll talk about that momentarily, but first we got, we got some follow-up from last week, Myke. Um, we were talking about pen cups, right? A very simple, easy thing to do that is very difficult to solve sometimes when you're looking for the exact thing. And we forgot to mention one thing that we both know very, very well. Our good friend Julia, um, from the Make Do podcast, um, also makes ceramics, including pen cups that we both own. Like we have. I don't have one of the pen cups. Okay, I have one of the pen cups.

Myke: I have, Julia made me some mugs, so I have one of her incredible tentacle mugs. She gave that to Adina, which is just unbelievable. And then she also made me a podcasting Don mug, which is a real treasure of mine. But yeah, Julia has made, I put an Instagram post in the past, um, these like pen cups that have a ridge in them. And while they are awesome, this is not what I wanted for my use. Like these always felt to me like stuff for your really nice fountain pen, where I needed something like tall, where these aren't tall.

Brad: Right. Right. They kind of have a, this, so I have one of those and it's kind of like, um, the front side that say that's, that's like facing you. It's like a half size, right? So it's like a half size wall. So the pens like lean back. It's not just something you're going to throw in and it's going to land in the cup and you're going to be happy with that. Right. It's, I didn't think it was an answer for what you were looking for, but I thought that was a good, um, a good add on to the list for people that are looking for cool desk accessories. And, um, Myke from independence, uh, reminded me of that on Twitter after the episode, I was like, Oh yeah, you big dummy. Let's mention that because like, it's sitting on my desk, you know, as we speak it, what, you know, what's in mind, Myke. So this is kind of the antithesis to, uh, your fancy fountain pens, my, my loaner pens, you know, the bit click loaner pen. Um, I keep like 10 of those in that little, uh, pen holder. So it's kind of the opposite of what you're thinking it should be used for. Yeah, it's cool. And it looks good in that mug.

Myke: Like the mug's green, the pen's orange. It's like, cause I always saw that as like a place for a fancy pen because it's got that, the slot taken out of it. Like it feels like it's presenting something.

Brad: Right. So you can lay a pen across kind of like the cutout in the front of the, uh, of the holder while other pens can stand vertically behind that. Uh, if you, if you wish, it's a great design. I love it. Super useful, super fun.

Myke: So I think I remember Julia bringing one of these to Atlanta and giving it to you. If I'm remembering, right. That is how I got it. I remember seeing it at the time and it was like, wow, that's a cool thing.

Brad: Yeah. And I know I have a picture on my Instagram. I'd have to go dig it up. Um, if I could actually find anything on Instagram anymore, but that's a whole other issue, Myke. Well, we won't wade into those waters. So did you end up going with, end up going with anything? Uh, did you order anything that we, we talked about last week? What'd you get?

Myke: Yeah. I got the E and M pot belly pen pot from Colt pens and it's perfect. It's exactly what I needed. Like 100% nailed what I wanted. It now is sitting on my desk and I have a few things in it and I've cleared up the desk top a little bit. It's perfect. This is just what I needed. It has a little rubber foot, like a rubber base too, which is just really good. So it doesn't move around. Like this is a great little thing for the low, low price of eight pounds, 65 pence from Colt pens. So I'm a very happy boy with this one.

Brad: Yeah, those are great. I, I highly recommend E and M products. Um, as we, as we mentioned before. So, uh, yeah, that was good. Um, that was good. I want to do another quick followup real quick, Myke, um, before we get to the end of the day. To something we really want to talk about the pen type discussion we had, I thought this is a real quick followup. We can sneak in here. The conversation, like the feedback I got on that conversation from last week, discovering, you know, trying to discover like, what is your pen type and trying to, you know, think about things when you're buying things or selling things, you know, what really fits your taste and your wants and your, your, your needs from a stationary product. And one of the recurring bits of feedback that I got is on a lot of people's list, you know, like my checklist was okay, material and shape and feel. And, you know, further down the list was nib and filling system. A lot of people, their list starts with the brand and I didn't even consider that. Right. So a lot of people's personal collections are brand centric, um, whether it's Pelican Parker or pilot or whatever, Nakaya, uh, retro 51, you know, that's, they start their checklist. Okay. What's my pen type type? Well, is it a Pelican? Then yes, I proceed. Right. Like if I'm a Pelican fan. So I got some good feedback on that and I thought that was smart feedback that you and I, I don't know if you and I would definitely would consider because I'm, you know, we're kind of brand agnostic. You know, we end up liking brands that make pens that we like, but we don't start with the brand first. I think that's fair. Right. Yeah. So I thought that was good feedback and I got that multiple times that, that, that people will start with, Hey, it's gotta be, you know, this brand. And then I go from there to see what within that brand fits my style of thing. So that was good. I woke up to a message from you this morning. Yeah. Um, and, and, and my replies to you were confused because I had literally just woken up and was taking our dog outside. And I didn't have coffee yet. Um, explain to me how you came across what you sent me this morning, what we're about to talk about.

Myke: One of the first things I saw this morning was a tweet from friends of the show, Charlie Marie, who said, the pen addict is mentioned on the most recent episode of the office ladies podcast. Now the office ladies podcast is a podcast about the office hosted by two of the stars of the office. So Angela Kinsey plays Angela and Jenna Fisher plays Pam and they're doing a rewatch show and talking about what, you know, the behind the scenes, um, of the show itself. Now on the episode that they published today, episode one 30, the coverup, there is a conversation about a pen that is being clicked. Um, and it's a Parker pen, right?

Parker Jotter

Brad: I think it's a Parker jotter. It's a Parker jotter.

Myke: Parker jotter. That was it. I've got pilot in my brain for some reason. And Jenna Fisher who plays Pam says like, starts saying like I did a bit of research about this pen and I came across a podcast called the pen addict hosted by Brad Dowdy and Myke Hurley. And they've done over 500 episodes of this show to Angela surprise. And then goes on to reference that, uh, they found the, an article on our website, which I enjoy as mine and your website. I don't know if you knew that. Um, our website at pen addict.com where they then found a review and you referenced in the review about like how the clicking of this pen would annoy anyone around you. So then was like really happy with the fact that the office chose the right pen. Now I bought a link in the show notes. This happens depending on where you are in the world. Somewhere between the 23 and 25 minute mark is when this begins. I think this is because of a dynamic ad insertion stuff, which can just really ruin these kinds of things for podcasts. But it's around that area. Like when I listened to it, it was like minute 25. Brad couldn't find it because it happened two minutes earlier because we had different length of ads in the show. But it's just an annoyance. But let me just say, the thrill of hearing Pam say Myke Hurley. Pretty great, man. That was, that was a fun way to start my day. Very. Yeah.

Brad: So not only did she like say our names, I was like, ah, that's my name. She read the words that I typed for the Parker Jotter review. It was like two sentences.

Brad: Life highlight, right? That is like the coolest thing. Yep. And they like got it. They're like, yeah, this is like, this is this annoying pen that we can just like, that totally fit. We made the right choice for the episode. You know, she's talking, referencing Michael Shore, a writer, creator of, of many, many fine shows saying at one point, she was saying how the, the Jotter had come up in different shows. So you'd got some feedback that this particular pen kept showing up in shows. Did, did Michael have, you know, something with, you know, with this pen that he kept choosing it. And he's like, no, I haven't basically, I know I have no idea why that keeps showing up, but it turns out this was the pen that you can click to annoy. Other people in your office. And it was a, it was a fun, fun conversation. You know, this is one of the things you like get to share with other people who don't do, who are not into the pen stuff like we do. Like I had my, I told my wife this morning, it's like, Hey, come and listen to this. Cause like, she knows who the office is and she knows, you know, who the actors are. And she's like, Oh, that's so cool. Like, it was just a really fun thing to share. So that was, that was nice. They also had a, I will, I will tweet at, at them later and share our conversation around pen and pen. The pronunciations of that word, because they were very concerned how Jim said pen. At least Angela was. Angela was very concerned about his pronunciation of pen. Oh, like pen. Uh-huh. Okay. Did you not hear that part? No, it must not.

Myke: It must have just glossed over me that time.

Brad: Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's before the, it's on the lead up into talking about the Parker Jotter is how they got into, um, uh, John's character. Talk is sad. The way he says pen. So it's great. It was, I, it was, I'm still smiling. I will listen to this more throughout the day. I will save this link. uh, whenever I need a smile on my face.

Myke: To the long list of super cool, famous people who have somehow come across the, fan addicts as part of their podcast.

Brad: Well, I mean, we're the, like the perfect candidate for internet stupidity, right? Like this, this, when you, as soon as you say this shouldn't exist, you go to the internet and find out that in fact it does exist because someone is weird enough to put this content on the internet.

Myke: What I want to know is how Jenna Fisher came across all of this information in the way that she did. And then in the order that it was presented.

Brad: Well, the, the key, I think the initial feedback was some, they got an email. Someone actually called out the pinned type, which was the Parker jotter. So once she had the bird, the name of the pin, she could take that to Michael and quiz him like, Hey, is this on purpose? And then she just got a bug to research this pen. Yeah. But it's like,

Myke: I don't know. So if you type Parker jotter in to Google, you're going to come up fast, right? Cause the pen addict is always listed very, very high. But then like, how did she find the show? That's what I don't get. And then also the information was presented with like podcast first. And I guess maybe because they're making a podcast. It was just fascinating to me really. And like, and I wonder like, did she do all of this herself? Did they, did they have researchers? Cause I know we've been mentioned, I think it was on, on earwolf podcasts in the past. Cause it's a part of the earwolf network. So maybe they were aware of it as like a starting point, maybe like, Oh, we've heard of this podcast about pen before you should maybe, I don't know. Whatever it is. I, the weirdness of these kinds of things will, will never get old for me. It was awesome.

Brad: Yeah. The through line, uh, it from discovery to figuring this out is definitely, uh, always fascinating, right? How did this even happen? But, um, I had a huge smile on my face. I, I, uh, good mom. I will, I will send them a tweet. Uh, I will send them a tweet later thanking them and, uh, you know, probably never hear back from them again, but I don't even care. It was just really cool. So yeah, I encourage it. I thought about it. That went to the list. There's no point.

Myke: Like I just kind of, there's no point. There's no point.

Brad: I was, I actually thought about it enough to, to think, well, they're probably on the West coast. So I'll wait until like, maybe they're at least awake and I'll just give, I'm going to piggyback on you. Thanks. Big thanks to, uh, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll tag you in the tweet, Myke, as we, as we, as we fan out, uh, on, over this little moment. So, uh, thank y'all for doing that. That was really cool. All right. Um, let's talk about more pens. Um, coming up soon, we have several pen shows hitting the calendar. So we just had Miami pen show two weekends ago. So we're getting into like the end of summer or kind of the summer peak of pen shows, at least based in the U S and with the DC pen show coming up August 5th through 7th. And the San Francisco pen show at the end of the month, August 26th through 28th. I wanted to bring this up one because the DC pen show is always so big and it brings up so much, uh, a large amount of conversation around the show because it can never seem to go off smoothly, which seems to be the case again this year. Like it's going to be fine. You'll go, you'll have a fun time and, um, you'll just, you know, deal with whatever DC throws at you. And I think everyone's just kind of, uh, you know, buckled in for whatever DC throws at them. You'll deal with it. And it ends up being a good time at the DC pen show. But I, I wanted to mention, I will not be at the DC pen show. I do. Uh, I get a lot of messages. Hey, you're going to be there. You're going to be there. I will not be. Um, it's traditionally one of the worst weekends on the calendar for me personally, um, with the stuff I got to do, uh, with the kids going back to school that week always. So it's just hard for me to get away that week, but we'll try, uh, maybe next year, maybe next year, the calendar will work out better for me. Where I will be is at the San Francisco pen show later in the month, August 26th through 28th. Like I said, so that'll be fun. If anyone happens to attend there, please say hi. We'll talk about this more as we get closer, uh, to the trip. And, uh, I'll have a trip recap here on the podcast. And, um, on through the, uh, the pen addict members platform, I'll have a review. We'll have lots of San Francisco pen show content. I'm sure, because this is going to be the first like real travel that I'm going to do. That's not in a car driving to the Atlanta pen show, um, for a couple of nights. So it'll be good. I'll be embedded at the pen show, if you will, Myke. So, uh, and I have no plans. Yeah, I'm going in, going in undercover, uh, no plans, no schedules, no working, no anything, just attending. So, uh, maybe in a couple of weeks time or the, the pre print pen show, I'll, I'll see if I've decided on taking any classes, which is something I've always wanted to do, but never have done. And San Francisco has got a bunch of great classes. So, um, looking into that on top of that, Myke, I've gone ahead and booked my travel for the Orlando pen show, which is a drivable pen show for me. And it's only two weeks from the San Francisco pen show, which means that by the time I get back from San Francisco and have to leave for Orlando, it's less than two weeks. It's like 10 days apart for travel. So this is, I am going all in on the pen show travel. All of a sudden, um, it's been a long time and I, I like covering the shows. I like, you know, uh, writing about them and, and discussing like all the ongoings of, you know, especially big shows like DC and San Francisco, they're held to such a different standard for a lot of shows. Right. So people want to know, Hey, tell me the difference between like a really massive show, like San Francisco and probably a smaller show like Orlando. So like I look forward to, to checking this out. This is the first Orlando pen show and it's, uh, easier in the fact that I can drive to it. It's like five hours, maybe six at the most, uh, for me to get there. So it's a pretty easy travel. And on top of that,

Myke: it sticks around the Orlando show. Yeah. It seems like a great excuse to go to Disney world.

Brad: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm not booking that this time, but I will tell you one of the benefits of this show, one of the reasons that made me go to it, which back in the day, I didn't used to think, uh, when I was working shows that a Saturday end show was a good idea, but it turns out I actually prefer shows that end on Saturday and don't have a Sunday. So this is basically a Friday. Yeah. So there's like Thursday set up, right? There's really nothing official except like an evening party, like a kickoff party, like Thursday night, right for vendors and, uh, weekend pass holders, then all day Friday and all day Saturday. And that's it because you've been at the Atlanta pen show where we've worked on Sunday and twiddled our thumbs for, you know, all but maybe an hour or two through, through the day, which is fine. Like, you know, we, it's good to have like a relaxing day, but you know, I, as I discovered at the Dallas pen show, um, their schedule is similar in that it's an all day Friday. And Saturday and then nothing on Sunday. So I actually got home on Sunday and it's like, Oh, turns out that's kind of nice, which, um, and, and I didn't feel after working enough shows, I didn't feel that I was missing out on Sunday. Now, every show is different in this aspect. Sometimes Sunday is like the main sales day. Like, you know, you kind of get in the rhythm and the flow of, of what the shows have to offer and what days work best. Like LA, like the only public day is Sunday, which is a whole different conversation. Um, but I, turns out I like getting home on Sundays instead of Mondays because I always stay over. I'm always exhausted by the end. So like, if I fly to a show, I don't try to rush out Sunday evening and get home. It's just not good. I just take that time to write and refresh and then travel on, on Monday. So yeah, Orlando in the future, um, you can go to Disney world. You can stay an extra day or two. So should be fun. I'm looking forward to that. So I will have some more, uh, coverage of that new show on the calendar, uh, coming up in September. And then after that, we'll see, I don't have anything, uh, booked. We start going into Boston and Dallas. Um, later on there's Columbus. Of course there's Tokyo mixed in the mix in there, uh, which we will not be attending this year. Um, so yeah, we'll see what the show calendar is. looks like for me after this August and September run and how I'm going to get integrated back into pen show travel and pen show coverage for like all the content I like to create. So yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Orlando Show

Myke: I would like to make a personal request to the Orlando pen show to not be in September.

Brad: Yeah. Why? It's a bad month. Oh yeah. Okay. That's, uh, that's, uh, uh, uh, St. Jude relay, uh, St. Jude. Um, it's going to be in September pretty much. There's not a lot of room on the, on, on the U S calendar. There's not a lot of October to be honest.

Brad: That's true. Uh, there was Denver for a while. Uh, Columbus doesn't happen till November.

Brad: Toronto was in October. Tokyo is in October. Yeah. I mean, October might could, could work. I mean, or if they did later in September, like if they did Dallas is late September,

Myke: not Dallas. I want September now. I want Orlando to be late in September. So then I can already be in the U S you know, then I can go to Disney world.

Brad: Gotcha.

Myke: Gotcha. Purely for me.

Brad: Yeah. What you need is Dallas to change their schedule.

Myke: I do keep finding myself in Dallas. So, you know, I might end up, I might end up going to the Dallas pen show cause I can't stop landing in Dallas.

Brad: That is a popular hub for you, right? You're going to rent. You're going to start renting a corporate apartment in Dallas cause you keep getting stuck there.

Myke: Oh dear. Talking about pen shows, Brad Dowdy. Yeah. Talking about pen shows. Let's thank our first sponsor of this week's episode. And that is the Canalea Pen Co. Canalea make the most beautiful pens inspired by images of Hawaii. Canalea's founders, Hugh and Carol believe that these locations can help recharge our spirit and connect us with nature. Today, I have a couple of things that I want to remind you about and a few pieces of information I want to give you on behalf of Canalea. So I want to let you know again to go and check out the Le Valani collection from Canalea. This is a design that represents the sky at night in Kauai with its deep dark blue, vibrant stars, and the visible shimmer of the Milky Way. The Le Valani collection consists of the fountain pen in five styles, a ballpoint, and also the return of the Maile Le band, which is a wonderful option made of Argentium silver, adorning Canalea's classic fountain pen profile. I have the Maile Le on a different pen, but it's still equally beautiful and a real wonderful addition. I think you can make an already special pen that a little bit extra special, I think makes it very wonderful gift. Canalea fountain pens feature Yoha number six nibs. You can buy steel or 18 karat gold nibs from Canalea, and they offer sizes from extra fine to 1.1 millimeter stub. Hugh smooths and tunes every nib before it leaves their shop, so your Canalea pen will write beautifully straight out of the lovely black walnut keepsake box. Recently, we told you about Canalea's Kai Huli collection. Kai Huli means a sea that dashes and recedes. With the movement of the tide, the ocean's waves will roll up onto the sand and pull back again. And when it does this, it leaves new treasures to discover on the beach, on the shore. Kai Huli is an ever-changing collection of fountain pens inspired by this idea, specifically created by Canalea to represent the varied and beautiful colors and textures of the Hawaiian islands. These pens are only available at pen shows, and were a huge hit at the St. Louis Pen Show in June. Every morning of a pen show, attendees will be able to stop by Canalea's tables to see the assortment of Kai Huli pens that the tide brought in overnight. Kai Huli will be back at both the DC Pen Show from August 5th to the 7th, and the San Francisco Pen Show from August 26th to 28th. Don't miss out, as these will be your final chances to see the Kai Huli collection in 2022. And to celebrate Canalea's anniversary month with every pen purchase at both the DC and SF Pen Shows, you will receive Kona coffee from the Green World Farms on Hawaii's Big Island, so you'll get to taste the inspiration behind the Kona Snow and Kona Cherry pens that were out, I think, maybe last year? Were those pens?

Brad: Two years. I've had my Kona Cherry for probably, it seems like two years, but I could be wrong.

Myke: So as a note, Canalea's tables at the DC show will be located downstairs this year due to construction at the hotel. DC show promoters will have signs directing attendees to all the vendors in this location. You can find out more about Canalea's whole offering and keep up with all of their latest announcements at canaleapenco.com. Our thanks to the Canalea Pen Co for the support of this show.

Brad: Yeah, so DC Pen Show, again, if you're going, just make sure that you are aware that a lot of vendors may be in some different locations this year and that, you know, there's the main floor of the ballroom and then there's going to be a location with a lot of other great vendors in there as well. So I'll be sure to mention that again the week before the pen show, which I guess is... It's a treasure hunt this time, you know? Yeah, it's a treasure hunt and you're going to find some awesome stuff. So I just hope the signage is good and the awareness is large at the show to make sure that all vendors are, you know, accessible to all of the attendees. So yeah, we definitely want to make that a focus here on the podcast for all of you going to the DC show. Also, the DC show, they want you to buy your tickets online just because the construction is really preventing the queuing that we have been witness to get into the show. I don't think they're going to have room for that. So they're really advising you, if you're attending the show, for, you know, one day or three days to buy your tickets online to help prevent some of the blocking issues that the construction is going to cause this year at the show. So we'll revisit this next week just as a reminder to everyone. So you want to be sure to go see all of our favorite vendors like Canalea Penco, wherever they're at, at the DC show.

Brad: All right, Myke, we're going to do something today that I'll be quite honest, I don't normally like to do. And that is promote the Pen Addict membership program. Like we talk about it here. We say, hey, you know, Brad has a membership program at penaddict.com. Not to be confused with the Relay FM membership, which we also have, which is also spectacular. But, you know, it's just, you know me well, and I think the listeners know me well. Like I just try to do things and I hope you find them and I hope you think they're cool and I hope you support the things that I make. Well, one of the things I do, probably the most important thing that I do is run a membership program. It's $5 a month at the Pen Addict. And what that gets you is extra Pen Addict content. So I'm always kind of tweaking the things that I do. The newsletter I create every week is really the core of it. That's the reason to subscribe. Yeah, I've been doing that for six and a half years. We've done, what, 333 issues of the newsletter on the weekend. I really enjoy putting that together. I put a lot of time and effort into that and everyone seems to enjoy it. That's kind of the core reason. And aside from supporting me directly to sign up for Pen Addict membership, I added a new bit of content. I'm always playing around with the things that I offer for members, you know, and how, you know, what's, you know, member content, what's like public content. And most of the public content on the Pen Addict blog is reviews. Like it's just straight up review content by myself, Jeff, Sarah, and Kimberly, the staff of writers at the Pen Addict. And then, you know, obviously giveaways and just fun links and things like that. So aside from the newsletter I create for members called Refill, I created a ranking system that I've been thinking about for years in an effort to talk specifically about what I think about pens, right? So it's called the Pen Addict rating. And this was kind of came out of pretty much questions I've gotten for the entirety of the blog. Can you rate a pen? You know, can you put a pen on a, you know, on a, like a grading scale to kind of discuss, you know, your thoughts about that? And we've talked about this on the podcast before that I've always been hesitant to do that in just a traditional review format, right? I've always felt it was very, very difficult to do that when basically I review products on penaddict.com from a, the lens of a recommendation. Who would I recommend this for? How would it work for some certain people? How it doesn't work for certain people. And I never felt comfortable saying, okay, this pen is a four star out of five or this pen is a B grade on an A through F scale. Like that's never made sense to me. I didn't think there was very much context. I didn't feel like those grades could be like transferable between review to review. How does, you know, a B from a gel ink pen relate to a B in a notebook and things like that. So I've never found value in having a rating system for my product reviews or for anyone's product reviews at penaddict.com. But I do have personal ratings and rankings. And that bears out in the way I choose to use a pen on a particular day and why I would choose one pen over another one. And I'm using pens just as the general catch-all. I would, you know, I talk about pencils. I talk about papers. I've given a grade to a fountain pen converter, Myke. So we talk about lots of stationary products.

Pen Addict Rating

Brad: So when, what the pen addict rating kind of boils down to is if I had two pens sitting side by side, which one would I choose and why? And then basically continuing that ranking on, take that winner of a pen and put another pen next to it. And why would I choose one pen over the other one? And I thought eventually I could have a scale that would answer those questions for myself and then I would share that with other people, right? So these are not product recommendations at all. This is Brad likes this pen more than that pen. And here's why. So I started writing this up. So I created a scale. It's a 20 to 80 scale. This is something I discovered from following baseball. It's a way that scouts would rate minor league players and young players who were before they got to the major leagues and how their skills translated compared to other players. and it was a way to kind of put player A versus player B and think about, okay, who do I think is going to be better and where to put those resources. This system came from, it's a scientific system that it kind of originated from. But it's a way to really kind of have a delineation of the best of the best versus the worst and everything in between.

Myke: Why not 10 to 60?

Brad: Yeah. I don't know. I don't have an answer for why it starts at 20 and ends at 80. Okay. I've looked that up before and I can't remember exactly what it was. It turns out you probably could do something. But there needed to be a middle grade, right? So we have 20, 30, 40, 50 is right in the middle, 60, 70, and 80. The key with this scale and another reason why I didn't like having a scale of a 1 to 10 or a star scale is because you can have an average grade on this scale and it'd be a good product, right? If I ever said a pen is a 5 out of 10, that's generally a poor rating, wouldn't you say? Just if you say a movie or an album or an article of clothing or an app was a 5 out of 10, you're not going to give it a second look, right? Like I wouldn't, right? But here in this grading system, it allows for the middle, the 50 grade to be excellent, like to be a very good product, right? It is the average. It is the average product and it's a discussion. It's part of the broader discussion of why average is good, right? Like average is a good product. So I was trying to describe things on that scale and that ends up, results in kind of a bell curve grading, right? The bulk of the products are going to be a 50, like right there in the middle and then probably 60, right? Because like we talked about last week and I've written about on, on in refill recently, like there's selection bias going into this to begin with, right? The products I choose are generally going to be good because why would I spend time with a bad product? So they're definitely products that rate, you know, average to better or where the bulk of the products and we'll talk about that later. So yeah, it was a way to kind of classify the, how I think about products where I can take a field notes, pocket notebook and relate that to a pilot vanishing point or an Orochizuku Shinkai ink or a Secura Pigma Micron, not saying that there's a one-to-one comparison, but in the way that I feel about these products and the way I personally think about these products that yeah, this is the 50 grade products or is this group of products and the 60 grade products or is this group of products in the 70s and the 80s and the 20s, you know, there's very few 20s, but like we'll talk about some examples here in a minute. So I write one of these up, one per week and the goal was to eventually get enough of these Panatic ratings to have some kind of context in the system. I thought it was a pretty slow start and I knew it was going to be this way until there were enough grades out there to explain to people how I view my own personal stationary products and we'll have a couple of examples you can download and you can download the PAR introduction. There's really no way for me to share this, but we'll in the show notes, we'll have a couple of PDFs you can download of the content that I just saved off the site. So we'll have the introduction with the scale and then there's a few examples I've put in the show notes of the ratings that I've done. So let's look at those real quick here. Sorry, I'm getting the pages out. So are you, any questions on the rating system itself? Why I do certain things? I know I just rambled through this and a lot of people are just kind of glossed over by now and going, what are you even talking about?

Myke: No, I mean, my main question is just like, I already asked, I don't understand 20 to 8. I just don't get it. But if it's a system that you latch onto, then go for it. Like at least it's weird and unique in that way. I wanted to ask how you choose the products.

Brad: Mm-hmm. So I just kind of, when I started, I brainstormed a list of like, what are all my most used or favorite or most talked about products or the products I think about the most. Again, so the main thing to remember is this is a very personal scale, right? I'm writing about how I feel about these products. Where in my reviews on penaddict.com, I talk about that, but I also contextualize it from, like I said, recommendations. Like would I recommend this to someone or what information do people need to make a good buying decision? I don't talk about that in these reviews, in these penaddict ratings. I talk about, hey, this is what I think about this pen and why I use it or don't use it. So-

Myke: But you know though that- How do I- You can kind of say that stuff as much as you like, but it doesn't mean there's a difference. Like if you have an opinion or something, people will take that opinion as like, this is some fact that I now have.

Brad: Yes, understood. I do understand that. That's why I try to, that's why I keep saying it over and over again. Because I do understand that. Yeah, you just keep trying, bud. You just keep trying. Because look,

Myke: I know that some members will do exactly what I do where when I get the email, the first thing I do is scroll down to see the score. A hundred percent. That's why I put it at the bottom.

Brad: I thought about just putting it at the top because I know that's only people start there, then go back.

Myke: Because that's where you look for it, right? Like everyone knows. If you want the score of a review, it's always at the bottom, so.

Brad: Yeah, and that's why I don't put it in the title either. Like I could put it in the title. Yeah. I don't do that either. So how do I choose? So at first, I did feel like there needed to be a big batch of standard products that I talk about the most needed to have scores attached to them. So when you can, you can look at, so the, I think this is in order of reviews that I did. So the very first one I did was the Blackwing 602. We'll talk about the grades, the scores here in a minute. Blackwing 602, Pilot Hitec C 0.3 millimeter, Rotring 600, Secura Pigma Micron, Lamy Safari, Field Notes Craft Memo Book, Pilot Orochizuku Shinkai, right? So I tried to take kind of a popular item in a lot of categories, a pencil, a micro tip gel ink pen, a mechanical pencil, a drawing marker, a fountain pen, a notebook, an ink, right? And then these were the products that I talk about the most, say like the Blackwing 602 or the Pilot Hitec C. And then what do I really think about them from a personal perspective? So on the scale, like the Blackwing 602 was a 60, right? So it's an above average, above average product. It's a really good pencil. And then the Pilot Hitec C 0.3 millimeter is a 40, right? Like I talk about that product all the time and how good it is when it's good, but it's really not a product I choose to use that much because it's only good, you know, it's a better option. So let me, let me say the scale real quick and I'll have a link in the show notes. You can look at the scale. When I say these numbers, you'll know what it means. So 20 is the lowest grade and that's avoid. Avoid this product, right? There's just no redeeming values on this product. Avoid it. A 30 is to use sparingly or specifically, right? Like if there's one like good thing about this product that you can find and there's a specific reason for you to use it, that's a 30. Like it's not completely avoid, but there's not a lot of great things about it. 40 is good, but there are better options out there, right? That's the Pilot High Tech C. Like it's a good pen. It's not great. I think it's probably below average. There are better options, but it's okay. Five is very good. A league average product. That's the most important thing to understand is that this scale kind of revolves around how good products that are rated 50 are. Then 60 is an above average product with only like a nitpick or two, something small or minor that, you know, that keeps it from being even better. 70 is exceptional across the board and it's 70 is a hard grade. Things tend to fall into like 60 or they're either like perfect in like 80. So like what keeps a product from being an 80 if it's a 70 or what keeps it from dropping into the 60? So 70 is always a good conversation point for me. And then 80 is the best of the best and elite option. There should be very few 80 grade products. I've done 25 reviews or 25 Panatic ratings. There are 280 products, which we'll talk about here in a minute and 120, right? And then in the middle, there's 550s and 1060s, right? So it's very much a bell curve in how this scale works. So again, and this is personal. These are my personal.

Myke: You only give 10s, scores in 10s, right?

Brad: Yeah, yeah. I don't think there's any point to break it down any further. I think that's just a little bit overly pedantic to have like 55s and 65s.

Myke: So again, it could actually be one to six, right?

Brad: Again, sure, sure.

Myke: I'm not trying to make fun. It's just like as a, you know.

Brad: No, it couldn't be one to six. It has to be an odd number. There has to be like a peak middle. I don't think there can be, there has to be a bang average, right? So it could be one to seven, I guess.

Myke: Yeah, sorry. I got my, I did the math bad on the 20 minus 80. Yeah, I knew what you meant though. It counts 20 as well.

Brad: Right. I knew what you meant by that though. Yeah, like it could be. There is a reason why it's 20 to 80 and I'll have to find that for you after the show. There is some scientific reason why it's this. It's not just necessarily made up, even though it sounds completely made up. And maybe by the end of the show, we'll have that link in the show notes for you. So I wanted a baseline of popular products to say, oh, this is what Brad thinks about this. So how can then we compare? Okay, so a Blackwing 2 is a 60. The other 60 grades, I won't read all of them, but like the Kaweco Sport.

Myke: I think I can give you some background here, by the way. I did a very quick Google. So maybe I can give you this background to take a break and then we'll go over some of the examples. Okay. So this is from a website called fangraphs.com. Yeah, baseball. The invention of the scale is credited to Branch Ricky. And whether he intended it or not, it mirrors various scientific scales. 50 is major league average. Then each 10 point increment represents a standard deviation, better or worse than average. In a normal distribution, three standard deviations in either direction should include 99.7% of your sample. So that's why the scale is 20 to 80 rather than 0 to 100. That said, the distribution of tools isn't a normal curve for every tool, but it's somewhere close to that for the most. So really like that's the idea. You start at 50 is the average. Start at 50. And then you go three in each direction. And that helps you. So three increments in each direction.

Brad: Yeah. And that makes sense in the way that I end up come up with these scores, right? That an 80 product, like an 80 grade is so just unassailable to where a 70 is like a full standard deviation below that, right? Like there is something about that product that doesn't make it a 75 and doesn't make it a 79 and it doesn't make it an 80, right? There is a difference. There is a, there is a, I don't want to say a stark difference in each grade, but there kind of is, right? Like the products that land on these scores are very specifically in these categories. And it goes back to something as being as simple as would I choose this pen over that pen? Yeah. And that makes a difference in that score. That's, that's the simple version of how I come up with the scores and the 80 products are the ones that never get beat, right? And the 70 products, they get beat very rarely, but sometimes there's a product that I would choose over that. And then the 60, well, there's a group, that's a really awesome group of products, but yeah, there's a handful of products ahead of that. But then there's a big batch in that 50 to 60 range that's just the really good stuff that you use all the time every day. And, you know, you're enjoying using these products. But, you know, if I'm using, you know, the Uniball Curitoga, if you're telling me the Curitoga's on my desk and the Rotring 600's on my desk, which one's better? It's never going to be the Curitoga, right? For me, right? So that places it into this score that I've given it into this rating and how the Rotring will continue to just matriculate up the charts until nothing else beats it. And that's what makes an 80-grade product. And the only other 80-grade product is, so far, like, and there'll be other ones in the future, but the only other one is the Pilot Orochizuku Shinkai fountain pen ink. There's no other ink that is that highly rated for me, right? If you're just asking me, like, what ink do I just want to put in all my pens? It's that one. Sure. Do I love all my green inks and my orange inks? Yeah, I use them all the time. I use them most of the time. That's what 50s and 60s are. But if you're telling me to pick the one, well, that's the one. And there might be another 80-grade ink. There might not be. Like, I don't think that far ahead, right? I have a lot of things. There's a lot of stationery I can grade out here. But then, you take both of those 80s, you say, oh, the Rotring 600 and Pilot Orochizuku Shinkai. It's like, oh, like, that's the top of the scale of Brad's scale. Like, those are like the elite products. And then you can have other 80s in there, right? And then, you know, the Pilot Custom 823 fountain pen, that's a 70. Like, it's not quite an 80. You know, and I wrote up a whole reasoning why, you know, it's not an 80. Basically, because I want to pull my hair out when I clean it. But luckily, I don't have to clean it that often, right? I don't have an 80-grade fountain pen right now. Like, 80 grades are super, super rare for me. And they should be. Just like 20s are super rare. I have the, I had to actually hunt down a product that I owned that I would grade it a 20. And it's the Statler Wopex pencil. I put that as a sample, Myke, for people to download in the links. You can download the PDF of my article. I also keep these articles short, like, between 300 and 500 words, right? This is just kind of like bite-size ratings that I do for each of these products once a week. Well, mostly once a week. I've done 25 this year so far. So, a little less than one a week. And, you know, I just talk about just, there is, under no circumstances would I ever choose to use this product, right? That's a 20-grade, right? So, it's really hard to have this discussion because it is so context-based around what all the grades are, what I think about all these individual products in, you know, combination with each other. Like, how does this product rate against this product and why? Right? Why is the Statler a 20? Why is the Hitec C.3 a 40? You know, why is the Rhodia Dot Pad a 50? Well, that's one of the most, like, mainstream, popular products out there and it is just exceedingly average and that's good, right? It is an exceedingly average notebook. It is great and it is right there in the middle of the rating. Like, I can't think of a more perfect grade 50 product than the Rhodia Dot Pad. It's just useful and there's a lot of things that are better and there's a lot of things that are worse.

Myke: So,

Brad: it's a challenge.

Myke: I'm charging in to pause you, all right? Because we need to take a break and then we can talk. I want to talk about the bell curve and a little bit about average with you as part of this. Let me tell you where you're going to be able to go and find all of the 80 products, right? You want to get some 80s? I'm going to tell you where to go. Pen Chalet because they have the best products from all the best companies and they do their very best to get these things to you at the best possible prices, the best possible shipping. I love Pen Chalet. They are an 80 all around. They're adding new styles of pens every single month. Every couple of weeks you can find new discounts, new great prices and tons of great products. But it's not just fountain pens and rollerballs and ballpoints and mechanical pencils. They also have accessories like carrying cases, inks, converters, the whole lot. They have all of your favorite brands and they do free shipping on orders of over $50 in the United States which is awesome. They also sell internationally too with very reasonable shipping rates. Pen Chalet has low prices on high quality pens and they offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee. So go right now to penchalet.com that's P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T dot com and click the podcast link at the top of the website. When you're there you want to enter the password penaddict and you will get your hands on a 10% code to save on anything at Pen Chalet and also a selection of offers for Pen Addict listeners. What have we got Brad?

Break

Brad: Sorry I was busy scrolling through the offers. I was thinking as I'm looking through this they rarely have inks on our page at Pen Chalet. This week they have Krishna Super Rich inks and they have Colorverse Rising Reflection Glistening Ink in there. So there's a couple ink options for you. There's also a couple of Conklin Wood Barrel pens. They have a fountain pen. I'm actually kind of more compelled by the Rollerball the 898 Rollerball that's listed down further below. It looks like a cool shape and a cool design for me. Then you roll into the big ones like the Visconti Homo Sapiens Demo Stones which is a great deal. They also have the Pelican 205 Petrol which is a highly recommended pen by me. I have not done a rating on the Pelican 205 but I assure you that one will rate out very well. One of my favorite hard to say that's an entry level pen being you know over $100 but it's just a fantastic fountain pen one that I love. So yeah go check out all the deals at penchalet.com.

Myke: Alright so that's penchalet.com to go and check it out for yourself. Hit the password hit the podcast link at the top of the website. Enter the password penaddict and you will get your hands on these wonderful offers and the code that you need to save on 10% anything at any time over at Penchalet. Our thanks to Penchalet for the continued support of this show and Relay FM.

Brad: Alright so what you're telling me is to stop talking.

Myke: I did try three times I think. To take a break today.

Brad: Yeah. I just have a real difficult time explaining this in a podcast segment because it is. It is. And it's broad right? Like it's there's a lot of moving parts. It's hard to make something complicated simple Myke.

Myke: So you mentioned some of the products that you scored so far and the ones that we've got in the notes like the Rotary 600. What did that score? Just as a refresh.

Brad: 80. So yeah it's an 80. It's one of the two 80 products. The Bit Crystal?

Brad: 60. That was a big controversy. Controversy Myke. Why was it controversial?

Brad: Because people thought I was way too high on that although I think there was a lot of support for that grade. It's again it's a contextual grade. I enjoy that pen a lot and it sits here in my pen cup as we were talking about last week. It is every time I pick it up it's always going to work exactly how I expect it to work and you can't say that about every product. It's also beautiful. It's also fun to use. It's also convenient like it's portable right? you can take it places. It's also a good art tool in that you can do different shading and coloring with it. It's a very multi-purpose pen that is extremely inexpensive. I don't like price doesn't you know isn't necessarily a category in these ratings because like it's products I already own. Again I'm not recommend it's not a recommendation with you know a recommendation price very much plays into that but these are almost like discounting price but you can't help but talk about the price in some of these when they're very low or very high and the brick crystal is just very very inexpensive and it just makes me enjoy having it around so I will choose that pen. Should price impact the scores? No I don't think so and for what I am trying to do I don't think so. I can't help but talk about it right when you talk about the pilot 823 right I think it's a good value pen but that doesn't go into the grade of what I feel about the pen and the product as much I'd be lying if I said it didn't impact it some right like that's just how these things work that's how like just built-in biases work right I like I haven't graded out a Nakaya and maybe I won't I don't I don't know what I'm gonna do from one week to the next I just have I keep a running list and pick one that I want to use that week or discuss so I don't think price should be a category for pen addict ratings or a consideration for pen addict ratings but when I do reviews on the blog they are a hundred percent part of the review because again in the recommendation hey is this a good deal is this a good value which you can't define for everyone to begin with but you can just kind of contextualize hey is this ink a ridiculous price per milliliter and makes it not as compelling even if it's good can you buy a similar ink for half the price would you consider that like that's a pen addict review that doesn't that doesn't relate to you know what I think about it and in for the pen addict rating so

Myke: the last one that we included in the notes was the statler war packs which scored what

Brad: 20 20 it is I called it like the meme pencil it's not really a joke like it's for real like it's this extruded like trying to be like recyclable eco-friendly but it's just a bad performer right if the core was good and you could sharpen it it might rank like a 40 or something like that but it's just not only a bad a poorly designed product it's a poorly functioning product and that just drags it down the list but that is actually one of the challenges you know when I wrote about it this week for pen addict members in the newsletters like the selection bias that I have towards stationary is why would I ever choose to have these bad products around so it's hard to have a bunch of grades that are low on the scale because I don't use those products anyway so that it's that's been a little bit of a flaw in the system right whereas those products are perfect for pen addict.com reviews right they're great for reviews to tell you hey don't spend your money on this product but then after that like if I do that like I might never see the product again you know I've probably given it away to someone or you know send it to the kids for school or something like that so I don't have a lot of like horrible products laying around so that's there's definitely some selection bias involved in that.

Myke: So you've got 25 products rated through the power system.

Brad: Mm-hmm.

Myke: At the moment 10 of those 25 are 60 above average. 5 are 50 average and then you've got like you know a few more below and above those two scores.

Brad: Yeah so that's 15 out of 25 kind of in the middle there. Mm-hmm. So we're looking at a bell curve. So definitely and it is that's where the bias comes in and that my choice right I'm choosing a lot of the products that hey I use this product a lot let me write it up for the par and see how it stacks up right let me see how it stacks up against these others and it turns out that a lot of the products I choose to use I think are better than average. Funny how that works right that's like it's completely biased like I'm not trying to be unbiased in these ratings right like I'm not like I'm very clear on that. Um so that tends to be the hardest part is kind of describing the middle ground and what the differences are in these middle ground products which are all great like these are great products that I use it's the most used category of products like by far so it's probably going to continue to have this bell curve distribution on the grades on the par scores that I keep giving um just because that's the products I enjoy using the most right and then it's really hard for a product to separate either above or below that middle ground so maybe in the end you know a year from now is has you know the usefulness of this um you know this scale um become you know not necessary maybe maybe maybe but um you know it's kind of like we'll see how it goes like it needed to get to a certain point to kind of sort out these grades as I thought they would right I don't I don't pregrade these products right I don't think about this ahead of time like oh I'm going to write up the 70 today it's like I generally don't think about it that way I don't the grades just kind of are what the grades are um so yeah they're going to keep piling up there in the middle they they just are and maybe that's a flaw of the system maybe that's a benefit of the system you know I'll let the I'll let the user decide if they they get bored with this oh Brad everything's a 60 that Brad uses I was like yeah well you're right so maybe the usefulness of the system um ends at a certain point but right now I'm kind of enjoying kind of sorting all these

Myke: products out do you score then write the article or do you write the article then score I write the

Brad: article and then score and now that I have a bulk of them I can look like I will think about a product so like I just did the vanishing point right and it only scored a 50 and I put in the reasons why it scored a 50 and then I look what I'll do is I'll look at the other 50 rated products and see if it fits in within and then I'll look at the other 60 rated products and go does it fit in with that group like am I choosing the group in the 60 ahead of this 50 product and if the answer is yes repeatedly well then I've scored it then it's a 50 right like I can take what I've already done and take all the 60s and decide is it a 60 is it a 70 or is it a 50 right and it really works for me that way when I put these products as simple as putting them side to side and going hey you know what I which pin am I gonna choose and not choose for today but which pin am I gonna choose like overall like for forever right what I choose you know the big crystal over the vanishing point that's not how it works right so the big crystal is kind of related more to like the different ballpoints in that in that range right but the pilot vanishing point is a 50 and the Lamy Safari is a 60 I'm gonna pick up the Lamy Safari a lot more than the vanishing point these days right just from ease of use just from a fun factor just from the options that I have with inks not that I don't have options with the with the vanishing point but that's just where I'm at right now with like pin like the vanishing point and why I would put the Safari in a category up from the vanishing point so it's it's definitely useful having other scores to play off of when you're writing up a new one so like you know that's that's kind of how I think about it does it fit you know by the time I'm done writing the article what have I decided the grade is going to be and then how does that grade fit in with the other things that have already graded around it either above or below it or the same and is it correct and again that's just where things fall

Myke: all right I think that wraps it up for this time I'm pleased we've spoken about all right I want to be able to touch on the power ratings in the future like I've been encouraging you to bring this to the podcast yes because look well because I feel like it's just completely confusing no no we can sit and discuss the idea behind it all day and people can either get it or not like what we've done now but at a certain point you understand what a score is so like it just contextualizes

Conclusion

Brad: itself yeah it relies it relies on volume too like I had to get to a certain point a certain number of scores to kind of relate everything to each other yeah so it's starting to work better now I feel so yeah all good thanks for letting me talk

Myke: about it oh no I wanted you to I

Brad: know you made me you mean you know I don't like you you know in the beginning when I when I caveat it the whole thing is like I don't want to talk about the things that are behind the the membership and it's like do it

Myke: do it yeah but also you've made some of this stuff available so people can go and read it and then if they want to get it yeah yeah more of it they can go to penna.com and they can sign up and become a member and then they'll get these things what do you

Brad: do one a week one a week yeah as long as you know like you know minus vacations and just random stuff happening so I don't know how what week we're on in the year we're probably on like week what like 28 or so and I've done 25 so you know mostly one a week just like refill take a couple weeks off during the year so yeah it's a weekly weekly publication so I will be writing this week's this afternoon and hopefully publishing it tonight I usually they're not on as tight of a schedule as refill which is a very fixed schedule these usually come out Wednesday night sometimes Thursdays

Myke: all right if you want to see all the show notes for this episode get some of this stuff for yourself go to relay.fm slash penaddict slash 523 or it should be in your podcast app that you use as well but just in case it isn't that's where you find them if you want to find Brad online go to penaddict.com he's penaddict on instagram twitch.tv slash penaddict streams three times a week dowdyism on twitter I'm imike i-m-y-k-e thanks again to canalea penco and pen chalet for the support of this episode and we'll be back next time until then say goodbye Brad

Brad: goodbye Brad