The Pen Addict 568/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	568
Title:	I Wanted To Go The Slow Way
Release Date:	June 14th, 2023
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy
Guests:	Frank Pressentin
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 568
Audio File:	Audio Episode 568
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 568
Length:	6666 min <br />1.1 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Brad Dowdy: Hello and welcome to The Pen Addict podcast on RelayFM. This is episode number 568 and I'm your host Brad Dowdy. And you know that if I'm doing the intro, that I have a special guest on the other end of the line. Who, you might ask? Well, let's welcome in Frank from Elbwood. Hi Frank, how are you doing? Hello Brad, nice to be online with you. This is pretty cool, I'm not going to lie. We've known each other, air quotes, online for a couple of years. I've been a fan of your work for a while, which we'll get into later. So, I wanted to bring you on and talk about everything Elbwood and everything Frank and kind of figure out how things are going over there for you and your recent efforts into the pen making world. Yeah, thank you very much Brad. I'm very excited to be here with you online. Yeah, so what I like to do with new guests, especially guests that maybe not everyone's familiar with, is I want to get a little bit of background. And not necessarily like professional background, but I want to know if pens and stationery played any role in your life when you were younger. Like, did you have any type of, you know, love of stationery? Did you grow up in Germany for your whole life? Is that fair to say?

Growing up in East Germany

Frank: Yeah, I grew up in Germany, but in the eastern part, in East Germany. So, I was born 1976, and as you might be familiar with, Germany was divided by that time. And I was in the Russian zone of Germany, which was called East Germany back then. So, yes, of course, 46 years ago, there was not so many digital stuff around us. And yes, we learned in school how to write properly by hand using fountain pens, which was quite an exercise back then. It did not used to be the biggest law of life in school for me. But they taught us handwriting, which is a skill that got lost for a couple of years in school systems. And luckily, it came back, I think, around six, seven years ago when my son went to school. He had to write with a fountain pen as well, which I think is really great because, as we all know in this community, it's not only a beauty of writing experience, it's scientifically proven that there's a connection between your brain and your hand when you write with a pen. And the fountain pen is the one that makes you write slowly so you can learn better. It has many advantages to learn it that way.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, and I love always hearing about how prevalent the fountain pens and the handwriting are, especially in a lot of European countries as opposed to America, where we'll learn handwriting and things like that, but not with fountain pens. And I've always appreciated that fact that not only did you do it when you were younger, your son's now doing it now, probably to a little bit lesser degree than you did it. And are they as frustrated with the fountain pen as you might have been when you were younger? Or do they have a special fancy fountain pen that you allow them to take to school?

Frank: No, actually, he has just a normal pen from the supermarket.

Frank: And there was no special thing. He's saving up on a material he's in love with to make one on his own in my workshop one day. He's 11 now, not quite patient enough, but he's got a nice collection of materials some pen makers would be jealous of.

Frank: Put aside for the day to come.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I love hearing that. I love hearing that. So, you and I are of a similar age, similar eras. And I know that Elbwood's only started a few years ago, which means you probably had a career long prior to this. Is that fair to say that you were going to get into the founding and the start of Elbwood and everything? But what were you doing prior to starting this fountain pen thing?

Career journey and entrepreneurship

Frank: Yeah, actually, I had a couple of careers, if you could say that. I'm a classic entrepreneur, I would say, in the sense of I like following paths that I'm passionate with. Usually it starts as a hobby. And then I just dive in with everything I have committed to that and try to make a profession out of it. Just for example, when I was 14 years old, I was in a little discotheque in a youth club in my hometown. So, I started becoming a DJ back then. It's a very small hometown. But I did that for about 20 years, I think, until I turned 34. So, I'm famous when it comes to that hometown. But no, outside of that, nobody knows me. Being a DJ. It was a hobby. I love music. I still listen to music every day over the headphones I'm talking to you right now. Music is a very big part of my life. So, I did that for a job. Then I did photography for a lot. I used to have an analog darkroom in the basement of my parents' house, developing black and white photography. Which is quite good, in a sense, until today. Because many pictures you see on my website, the product shots, are made by me. It's something I enjoy as much as pen making itself. And the profession I actually became when I was an adult was, I wanted to become a teacher, but took a side way to become an educator, I think it's called. A social worker might be the right word. Okay, sure. So, I lived and shared my life with children that don't have a proper home. And so, I moved in a house with them and stayed 24 hours, 24-7 around, being a spare parent, if you want to say. Yeah. So, and out of that very intense work and experience, I made myself self-employed with a partner and founded a social company where we did exactly like that. We helped children, families to, in the best way, live together for themselves. That I have been doing for 20 years.

Brad Dowdy: That's wonderful. Yeah, that is a really valuable, valuable thing for the world. Like, not just like in your local community, but for people to give their lives and dedicate their lives to that type of work is really amazing. So, yeah, that's great. And listening to you talk about not just like your social work type of job, like the jobs prior to that definitely had a creative bent to them, right? Like music, photography, art, design, things like that. And did that type of creativity eventually like light a spark in you to say, hey, you know, I'm doing this great social work and, you know, maybe I need a hobby on the side. And how did it come to where you decided to make your first pen?

Frank: Yeah. The social work is a very intense work between human beings. So, you get lots of energy back, but you put lots of energy in it. And if you don't find a way to do something beside that verbal work, which is on a high psychologic level, then you might become ill or sick over time. You need something that founds you, that gives you a proper base to be able to do a good job. And for me, that was craftsmanship in the first place. So, we bought a very old house built in the 1930s and rebuilt that house. And I learned if you find somebody who tells you how to use a tool and which tool to use, you can do a lot on your own and you can get very far by it. And I felt a success doing this rebuilding of the house because you see at the end of the day what you have done. And you feel it in your bones and in your hands. They hurt.

Frank: And I liked that. I liked that. Working in the dust and making something. And I felt a relief from my very, I don't know the right term, head work compared to using your hands. And because I was so motivated after that, I made a hobby which was like first building up a workshop. It's not the one you might ask for later. Oh, we're going to talk about that later. It was a very old, very small garage carport thing, which I stuffed full with tools and tried to be a carpenter, work with wood. And then I found a crazy guy from your home country in America. Jeff Spira was his name. He was a designer for boats because the River Elbe, which might be a hint of the name of my brand, flows through Hamburg. It's a beautiful river. And I was dreaming of going on the boat there, on a boat that I built myself. And this Jeff Spira had a very old ancient internet website, which was not graphically nice to look at. But the content was that he gave you a plan you could download for a little money. And people from all over the world downloaded the plans, build a boat, and send it to him. And he would answer and give them advice. And I told my wife, you know what, I'm going to build a boat now, which was not very taken honestly or serious by her. But a couple of years later, I managed to finish the boat. It was a giant project. It took me five years. It was a crazy project. I took a break for two years in between. But then there comes the moment you realize, oh, this is going to come to an end pretty soon. And you have so much joy doing this. What's the next thing I'm going to build? And then it came to me. You said it's a spark in the head? What's the?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, like a spark, yeah.

Frank: Like a spark, yes. I was looking at this almost finished boat. And then there was the spark that the captains of ships write in their log book. Is it the same word in English? Yes, like captain's log, yes. A captain's log, yes. So they write their route, they write their adventures, they write, make a protocol, whatever they experienced. And somehow I came to the topic of writing, log book, experience, adventure, that mixture. And I ended up with writing instruments, small pieces, much smaller than boats, that have so much in them, if you think it through, what they can give you, what you can do with them, but writing, but also what you can do with them, designing on them. And then there was the spark and never went away. And the first idea was making writing instruments using the same materials as I used with my boat, which was wood. Okay. There was lots of brass. Usually back then they had these, it's a compass in Germany. What's the thing that gives it the direction? Yes, compass. Compass. Which usually was used out of ebony brass and nice materials. That was the first idea to start with something like that.

Inspiration behind pen design

Brad Dowdy: Nice. So a pen design came out of this idea, this continuation that you've had this really kind of great fulfillment from making something with your hands, creating something.

Frank: Yeah, it was. Yes, it was not the design by then. It was the fact that I knew I wanted to make more with my hands. And the next step should be writing instruments. I didn't have any idea how to do it back then, but the spark never left the head.

Brad Dowdy: Well, we're going to get into that, I think, right about now and get into these writing instruments. But first, let me talk about one of our wonderful sponsors here at The Pen Addict. And that is Squarespace. So this episode of The Pen Addict is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform for building your brand and growing your business online. You can stand out with a beautiful website, engage your audience, sell anything, your product, services, and even the content you create. Squarespace has got you covered. With Squarespace, you can sell your products in an online store. That's something that I do. Whether you sell physical or digital products, Squarespace has the tools you need to start selling online. You can get the best-in-class website templates, which I also use to customize and fit to your needs. It's as easy as browsing the category of your business to find a perfect starting place. No matter what your business is, Squarespace has a way to get you started quickly and easily. And you can customize it all with just a few clicks. And you can get to blogging. That's what I do a lot with Squarespace. They have powerful blogging tools to share your stories, photos, videos, and updates. You'll be able to categorize, share, and schedule your posts to make your content work for you. So I'm a huge Squarespace fan. I've been using them for probably more than a decade. And if you want to check out the platform that I use to write the Pen Addict, have the Pen Addict shop, and host all kinds of information over at PenAddict.com, head over to squarespace.com slash PenAddict for a free trial with no credit card required. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code PenAddict to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash PenAddict. And when you decide to sign up, use the offer code PenAddict to get 10% off your first purchase and show your support for the Pen Addict. Our thanks to Squarespace for their support of this show and RelayFM. How did your first foray into pen making go? I'm figuring it was a wild success, right? Right from the jump.

Frank: No.

Brad Dowdy: It never is. It never is.

Frank: It never is. As I said, first I was intrigued by the fact to do something with my hands, craftsmanship. And then I got stuck with writing instruments. And I was doing some research. How can I start? And I think as many pen makers start, you find a website where they offer pen kits. And then you order some of the metal parts and some nibs. And you try your luck. And then you realize, oh, it's not that easy. Even though you have instructions and stuff. So I was looking out for teachers who could teach me how to do it. Something I usually always do or did in my life when I have a topic that intrigues me, I look out for experts in that field and ask them, would you mind teaching me? And my experience is they usually enjoy teaching. So I found wood turning was the first step into pen making. I had a wood lathe, was turning entirely on the lathe using kits, made a weekend course, another weekend course, diving in, diving in, diving in, and working mainly on all the pen kits you can get. And always on the lookout for the next hot pen kit to come out. Sure. But I realized pretty quick that a pen kit is nice for staying on a hobby level. And it was my part if I just wanted to do it as a side job, have some enjoyment, a couple of hours in the basement. And making a pen, having quite a quick success. That is what a pen kit offers you. It did not fulfill my spark again. You call it spark. Sure. The thing in my head. Yeah. Because I was always stuck with the parts of the kit, obviously, which were made out of metal. Limitations. There are limitations. And when you think of, I have an idea in my head, how could I do it myself and stuff. So I was in the need of another teacher, and this time one that would teach me turning metal, to become able to make my own kit, or my kitless, my first kitless pen. And that was, I think it's called a rabbit hole in English, my dive in the rabbit hole of kitless pen making. I found a teacher. He was a genius. He was an artist. A tinkerer who enabled me to make the first pen. It was not a fountain pen by then. It was a rollerball pen. I still have it in my pocket with me. I think I have some models that arrived out of that on my website, but the rollerball pens are actually not models I offer quite offensive. If you ask for them, I will tell you, yes, I will make one for you.

Focus on fountain pens

Frank: The focus is on fountain pens at the moment.

Brad Dowdy: So it's funny when I was putting together my show notes, I'm doing all my reading and making sure I'm dialed in, and I eventually landed on a page. I was like, what is this rollerball? I have never seen this before. And I've obviously followed you for a couple of years, but that was kind of the original thought and design of the first pens, your first kitless type of pens.

Frank: Yeah, I can show it to you. Nobody else will see it. I'm sorry.

Brad Dowdy: Well, we will have a link in the show notes so everyone can see what it looks like. Because even I was surprised when I found that on your website.

Frank: I hold it very close to the camera now. It's made out of brass. It's made out of ebony.

Frank: So exactly as I said, those were the materials I was thinking of building the boat. And it's a rollerball pen that you have to turn to have the, is it called nip? No, the rollerball thing to come out. Yeah, the refill. So you don't press on there, you don't click on there, you have to turn. And everything I like about writing instruments is that they give you a good time. So there is no need to hurry to make them work. Yes. And I try to design writing instruments that start giving you a good time even by making them able to write, if that makes sense for you.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So for listeners, I'll have the link in the show notes, but what kind of stopped me in my tracks with the rollerball design was what Frank was showing me here is the deployment mechanism is this interesting twist mechanism that you've got to spin it a few times to have the refill in the writing position and then obviously reverse it to retract it. But the idea of it, what I see and is what you're describing to me is enjoying that slow process. That's also part of the design and part of the reason why you're picking up this pen to write. And it doesn't have to be this fast, quick deployment and like, oh, I got to get to write. It's like, you design things, which we'll get more into the fountain pens here in a bit, but you design things individually to be meaningful and enjoyed and to slow down, right? Writing just by its nature is a slow, thoughtful process. And just that little twist mechanism on your pen, which I just discovered days ago, I'm like, yeah, like I get it. This looks like Frank. This looks like something Frank would do. And this was the first thing that you, one of the first designs that you made.

Frank: It was the first design I made. And this one, I did not make all my myself. Obviously, I did it with my teacher together after my ideas. And then we designed directly on the lathe. That is how I work until today. I'm not very good in 2D or 3D designing CAD on computer. Of course, I need it when it comes to measuring the measurements inside, which are just a thousandth of an inch or hundreds of millimeters. Yes, very precise. But I work more like a sculptor on the lathe. You put in a massive solid rod of material into a lathe and you take your tool and you start forming. That is a totally different design process than modern designers would do it on a computer screen and turning it in every direction and figuring out. I want to see and feel it on the lathe. It's just the way I am most comfortable with. And then I see a form that I like. And after that, I have to go to the PC, the computer, and find out how can I make the nib inside their fit or the rollerball inlay and stuff. And if I figure that out, I leave the computer as quick as possible.

Brad Dowdy: So how did you go from this ballpoint design, working with kind of a mentor in designing this, to deciding that you wanted to start a company that makes pens?

Frank: It was deriving out of a discussion with my teacher. He is 20 years older than me and he was always thinking of marketing as I'm a tinkerer, I'm an artist, I have this wonderful atelier and you have to come and find me first, which was not so easy to find him because he did not have a good website or whatever. And if you managed to find him, then he would not talk to you. He would have a cigar in his mouth and look at you and you on your own had to find out the exquisitely and the special stuff about his work. And I said, people, I don't think that people have the ability to do that on their own. I think you have to help people to tell how special that is, what you're doing. You need, art usually needs a room to be recognized. There are experiments like very famous violin players. When they're standing in New York in one of the biggest ball houses and people are willing to pay $400 a night or even more to see them, then the same person stands in the underground station, plays the same quality of music, people might not notice. They might notice, oh, that's something good, but they will walk by because they are not in the room, in the mood, in the sense, in the context to realize what high-quality art they are wearing. So these were the kind of discussions. And I think he was more of a tinker. He built one thing, was excited, put it in a showroom, and if somebody comes, he sold it to him. No marketing, nothing at all, because he was on the next step to the next product already. And we had this discussion on, well, I think I need to present it. I want to present it for what it's worth. I need to be bold enough to prize it for what it's worth, which is usually a hard step for an artist to prize their own work because it's loaded with emotions. Especially in the beginning. Especially in the beginning, but it never ends, actually. You get more self-confident, of course. But it's always a struggle for an artist. Because everything you make is your baby, and you have a different perspective on it than if you would be a marketer or something, marketing somebody else's products. So out of these discussions, I had the idea, I want to present the world that I had the idea of giving the customer, I like when you go to a tailor, a bespoke tailoring service. You want a suit, and you say, I want the white shirt, I want the black collar, I want the silver knobs, whatever. And the tailor does the custom suit to your measurements. So I was cutting down woods, I was cutting down ebony rods, I was cutting down metals to make up a little building case, which you know from my website, I think there are pictures of it. And I give you the possibility to choose that wood combined with that metal, and then you can take that nip and the collar that suits your taste. And after that, I would start working.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I'm over here giggling, Frank sees me giggling, because this is how he got me on one of his displays. We'll talk about that later. But this is exactly how the presentation was. And I was like, oh, yes, I need that one. No, not that one, the one, you know, two more over, that one. So we're gonna, we'll talk about that. But I think what I want to start with, with the brand and with Elbwood and what you create is, I guess, give me the idea behind the Pocketmaster. And I don't want to simplify the brand into like a single product. But I think what I appreciate about the Pocketmaster is not just like the size and the craftsmanship is that, and I don't even know how to describe this, but there is a beauty and simplicity that I see out of this product that it is not overbuilt, but it is so finely crafted. It feels special. So can you kind of give me the idea of how just this like singular design, either the Pocketmaster actually comes in a couple of different sizes. We'll talk specifics and I'll have links so y'all can see all of these in the show notes. But how did you go from making a rollerball into coming up with a unique pen design that you wanted to share with the world?

Frank: Well, the rollerball was the start with the teacher to come to a final product and the discussions got this idea of going into this pen making thing and I was pretty sure I needed fountain pens to do it because there is in the niche of high quality writing instruments, the fountain pen is king until today and it's usually equipped with an gold nib, 18k gold nib, etc. And that was the niche I was looking out for myself. I did not want to do the ordinary, I did not want to compete with mass manufacturers who would do it much better than me. I wanted to go the slow way which is, I think, the special way. So in the pocket master is one day it arrived from tinkering around on my lathe. I wanted to make a small thing because I read, I think I read an article about pocket fountain pens and I have one. I think you will ask me if I use pens from other manufacturers later or something. Yes. Actually, I only have one from other manufacturers but there are, of course, models from other people I see on Instagram that I like and admire. Of course, I only have one, it's the Kaweco Sport and Brass.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I have been using it. Not a shock. If you said, Brad, please guess, the singular fountain pen and you haven't told me this before, that would have been my exact guess. Yes. But you didn't know, I didn't tell you. What? No, no, no, no. I would have guessed that 100% accurately.

Frank: Yeah. And the only thing I do not like about this model is the size of the nip of the one I have. It has a small nip. Yes. And then I read an article about some weird competition between manufacturers making the smallest pocket fountain pen in the world, something, which is weird because the smaller a nip gets, the harder it whites because it cannot bend.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. It's just physics prohibits. Yeah, they're stiffer. The smaller nips are stiffer. They're stiffer.

Frank: And the smaller a fountain pen becomes, the worse the whiting experience becomes, especially if you have huge hands like me. Yes. Very fair. And I was discovering that there was this competition. They became smaller and smaller, smaller nips, lighter and lighter. And Kaweco did something different. They used an honest material, brass, heavy, and they had this very simple design. I think it was an hexagon or something. Actually, it's made simple but very, very clever. And they made some round pieces to it so you can turn the other side on the end and you have a full-grown whiting instrument. I like that. Yeah.

Frank: And so I came up with my own idea which is not actually some kind of innovative design. There are other people who have a thread on the end of the pen and you screw the cap on the end. But as usual with design or in photography there's a saying why should I become a photographer? Everybody else took pictures of the Rocky Mountains. Yeah, but not you. You can go there and find your very personal perspective and I think it's the same in pen making or with every kind of art or craft. You can start today and make your own thing, your own design. I cannot tell you how I came there. I just can tell you I was having sleepless nights and endless tries and one day suddenly it was there. It was the pocket master and I used a very special bronze. I call it its ship. What's the propeller? Boat propeller bronze. Very hard. Very unpleasant to work with. Obviously it has to survive in the sea without getting rusty and stuff. so I made one out of boat propeller bronze and went to my teacher to show him and he was very very critical. Always. He usually did not like what I showed and he got silent and he said that's pretty good and out of his mouth that is comparable to the Red Dot design award or something. Yeah,

Brad Dowdy: that's the peak.

Frank: And it gave me so much confidence. I said that's it. Stick to it. refine it and it took me two more years to refine all the small steps that might not be obvious when looking at it but you have one in your hands and I think through time and through use you experience that all the small details are quite worked out.

Sharing creations and building a brand

Brad Dowdy: What was the driving factor to start sharing this with other people? You know, making a storefront and being more out in front and saying hey, I'm really proud of what I made. I think it's important and I want to share it with other people. What was that turning point that said yeah, I think I want to try to maybe sell these and share these with the world?

Frank: I think it's my personal character. My wife would say it's the wish for applause. there was a reason why I liked being a DJ standing in front of people playing music. I like getting something back, some energy that gives you motivation and for me, stepping out in front of people always has something to do with coming out of your comfort zone, presenting something, your inner to the outer world.

Frank: I always experience if you do that you get something back, it's not only the applause, but I in my case get the energy back that motivates me to keep on going and to realize it's good.

Frank: I need that for me to keep things going. Otherwise you just land into a shelf and get dusty. I want to communicate and to go out there is the best way to get in touch with people. to communicate.

Brad Dowdy: I definitely feel that. It's not easy to put yourself out there, put your thoughts and ideas out there for public display, if you will. I want to talk about what is on public display and talk about some of the specific models, materials, designs, how you craft things. I want to get into the making things a little bit. First, let me talk about our second sponsor of this episode and that is our good friends over at Penn Chalet. They sell authentic, amazing roller balls, fountain pens, ballpoints, mechanical pencils, and so much more. They have all your favorite brands like Monteverde, Pelican, Lamy, Pilot, Namiki, Sailor, Kaweco, and of course are an authorized dealer of all of these brands. They have very fast and reliable customer service. They run special discounts twice a month, including closeout specials every two weeks. They're always adding new styles of pens every single month, as well as all the brands I mentioned earlier, Penn Chalet sells limited edition pens and all the pen accessories you ever need, like pen carrying cases, pen holders, refills, fountain pen converters, and so much more. They have free shipping on orders over $75 in the United States, and they also sell internationally with very reasonable shipping rates. Maybe we can get Frank into his second Kaweco over there, although I bet he has a pretty good source in Germany for Kawecos. Penn Chalet also has low prices on high quality pens and offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee. So, go to PennChalet.com, click the podcast link at the top of the website, enter the password penaddict for this week's special offers, and to get the code you need to save 10% on anything at Penn Chalet. So, I definitely want y'all to go check out the link in the show notes to Penn Chalet. They're going to have some awesome deals for you on the page. We are recording this a little bit early, so the page is not quite updated, but you can see the previous awesome sale that Ron has set up for us over at Penn Chalet, including the aforementioned stipula fountain pen, which I mentioned the previous weeks, the Y-Studio wooden notepad sand, and the wonderful Pelican M 205 demonstrator. So, go check those out over at PennChalet.com. Enter the code podcast at the link, oh, sorry, click the podcast link at the top of the website, enter the code penaddict for this week's special offers, and thank you so much to Penn Chalet for sponsoring Relay FM and the penaddict. So, I will save our pen conversation, our other brands conversation for later, which you alluded to, because I want to talk about your materials and your brands. So, what year did Elbwood start? What year did you start selling fountain pens ! or rollerballs even, kind of publicly?

Frank: When? Yeah. It was only a few years ago, right? Yeah, it's not that long ago. I think it was 2016, 17-ish, around that time. At that time, I still had my company, social work company, which was backing my adventures in going out there and representing because if you want to represent, unfortunately, it costs time, energy, and money to do so. And to build up a brand does not happen overnight, so you need lots of breath to walk that path. And so, like, six years ago, I rented a store in my hometown in Hamburg, which has a very new, very exciting and I think quite famous Philharmonic house of music. And close to that, there are thousands of tourists walking close to that, I opened up a showroom because my idea was back then, I make so special pens so slowly on a very material-oriented base, I think people have to take it in their hands, touch it, and then they fall in love with it. They would never buy it online. That was my thinking six or seven years ago. Sure. So I thought I needed a showroom to present in a proper manner. And it was a very, very exciting experience. Lots of, took me lots of energy, to be honest. Yeah, sure, sure. I underestimated many, many things you have to take care of when you have a showroom. First of all, it's a showroom, so you cannot stand there just in your working clothes. You have to look proper. The window has to look proper. I underestimated how many pigeons and seagulls we had in the harbor city, so how many times I had to clean the window. Simple facts like that, which are time-consuming. And after two years, I realized it was just taking so much time of making pens, having time with your family, having a workshop, a family, a company, and a showroom, was quite demanding. Even though we were quite successful because my neighbor was a violin maker, and he knew all the sometimes even world famous musicians from the opera house there. they came to us to play music for the hat going around because they were looking for a nice place, just to do their thing. So we had this event thing going on, which was great, but it was even more time consuming.

Frank: And one day I sat down and realized I have to take a decision, which means focusing on some things that are important. And for me, it was the thing I wanted more time in the workshop. I wanted more time with my family, and so I skipped the show part, which felt very disappointing at that moment. But the first customers who came to my atelier, which I think you got to know over Instagram or my website, and you do not become tired of saying, oh, that's a nice room, I think. I realized that my private idea of creating a nice room atmosphere, that is something that has nothing to do with the term showroom. But because it's so thought out and because it's so personal, it does its job even better than any show window or show would do. And I had the customer sitting there in the dust. He said, please don't clean before I come. There's a cat running around, and all these things you would not allow yourself in a high representative thing. That is what the people love because it's so real, it's so true. It took me a long time to realize that. As I said, there's a struggle of an artist. you always think you have to make something up, which you don't.

Brad Dowdy: It's a process, right? You have to make mistakes to move forward and you have to figure out what works best for you and what works best for your customers and then eventually, hopefully, it all clicks. It certainly seems like it has from my perspective.

Frank: The funny thing is the showroom was good for the brand, put the level of the brand higher because people realize he's taking that seriously.

Brad Dowdy: Let's talk about that real quick and we'll circle back to some of the pen materials and design questions that I have, but we keep referencing the showroom because I made a point in the show notes to talk about your workshop, I should say, not the showroom, your workshop. it's really lived in in a very interesting fashion. I just find the pictures of the style of the workshop fascinating and as I was doing my research to talk to you, that didn't necessarily, there was some thought behind the workshop and the design and the layout. So just give me a little bit of discussion and I'll be sure to share one of the pictures that I referenced to Frank in the show notes, so you all can see what we're talking about here. But give me an idea of your workshop design, layout, and why it is that way.

Frank: Okay, it's a mixture of a man cave, I think that's the English term. The first piece that came in there was an oven, it's called the Buller yarn, but I think it's a Canadian design they used in their cabins in Canadian, which I very hard to get heated, so it sucks the air from underneath and puts it out on top. Very nice to look at, besides that is a couch and an old trunk, and then I have very old machinery in there, which by itself is just beautiful to look at. Funny how, even for people who don't have any clue what these machines could be used for, but they like the look. So it's vintage machinery out of the 60s, out of the 70s. which for me is the best machinery because it's so precise. Those were the times they used much more material than they would use today to make precision machinery. They don't have computers on there. I have to use my hands to work these machines, which I like. And then the rest of the showroom, it's pretty high ceiling, lots of windows, very much of natural light in there, and old printer desks, I think that's what it's called. You know, in the old time when they had letter presses, they had these, is it shelf? Is that the word?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, the shelves with like the, so they have, and this is one of the things that fascinates me the most, and I'll let you continue on it, but they're basically like print drawers, like Frank's saying, like in a letter press shop, you would have like these very thin, probably like a two inch, two to three inch tall drawer, and then like a stack of like 10 to 20 of those drawers to where all the papers would live, and they would just have, you would have your different types of papers, or you could have them, they could, you know, serve as like drying racks afterwards, things like that, so it's a very compact, unique shelving space.

Frank: Yeah, and they not only had their papers in there, they had the letters in there. Yeah, so like the letter for the storage. So if you take the drawer out, it has, it's divided a hundred, two hundred times, which is very small, which makes it perfect for all the little pieces I have to store. Yep. And on some of the drawers, there's even the name of the writing, what is it, the font, I think. Yeah, the font, so

Brad Dowdy: they have different sizes, different shapes, all the little individual blocks. Yeah.

Frank: They're still written on there, and they're so loaded with history, so every time I come in there, I feel in a creative mood that helps me doing what I do. Yeah.

Discussion on materials and craftsmanship

Brad Dowdy: Yep, so let's talk about materials then. Yes. So this is a two-part question, maybe a little bit loaded question. What is your favorite material to make a fountain pen from? And then second, what is your customer's favorite material? Because I have a feeling those might be two separate things.

Frank: Yeah, that's true, that they are different, but both are hard to answer. To be honest, my favorite material is usually the one I don't know and I am just about to experience, so because I'm always on the hunt for something new. When I look to the ones I use on a regular basis, I really like working with brass. It's just so smooth to work with. I like the feel of copper, but I hate working copper. It makes long, very, very sharp curls, and you need oil, and it makes your tools dull and stuff, but when it's ready, it's special.

Frank: What surprised me is how good it is to work in gold. That is something you might ask later as well for what's coming next. There's nothing on my website about it yet. it might become my favorite material, not because of the value. Of course, it's the most valuable material, but it worked perfectly well on the lathe. It kept the threads like a charm.

Frank: Everything on working with gold was a pleasure, which I did not expect, because it took me three years to go to get the guts, to find the boldness to work on this precious material. Sure. And, of course, it would be good if that might become the best loved material of my custom. You wouldn't complain on that one. I wouldn't complain on that one, no.

Frank: And, of course, even though Elbwood, it's called Elbwood, I started with wood, and I love wood. It is a very complicated material to use it on whiting instrument. If you don't stabilize the wood, use epoxy or CA glue or something. If you want to keep the wood in a natural state, all you have as a chance is giving it the time it needs to dry to get the tension out of the wood because you have so thin pieces in the end. it is the material with the most natural touch and feel to it. I think it connects the most to an earthy feel or natural feeling. And I really do love ebonite. Is it called ebonite? How do you pronounce it?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I mean, I say ebonite, but I think it's like, my pen is ebonite and silver hardware. That's a fun material. Yes.

Frank: Silver is very special to work with and because it is so, it's not even only precious, it is so, I don't know the right term, it can look so different. It can be very high polished, it can be matted, it can be brushed, it can be blackened. It's special.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, you and I, when I designed my pen, which I actually kind of want to talk to you about, just the design process in general, working with customers, that was the part where we went back and forth the most on, just the silver hardware and deciding what to do for that, the style, the look. How is it going to look today? How is it going to look in two years from now? Right? Like all those things are a consideration when you're working with precious metals, right? Yes. And how does it look today? It looks amazing. It gets better, right? It's one of those things that wears in and it just gets better with age, right? Like it doesn't, it takes on this patina and like the little bit of tarnish and it has these interesting variances in what's exposed versus what's capped and you can see like, you know, the threading on the cap, you know, you can see kind of more of the original silver color, but where I've gripped it and it's taking on its own personality there, which I love pins that do get worn with age, right? Like I don't, I use my pins, right? These, these pins are made to be used. I, I've, I've always said that and, you know, I'll carry this pin in my pocket. You know, it's a very nice, very expensive pin, but I don't buy things that I'm not going to use. I'm not going to set this up on a shelf. You make this pin for me to put in my pocket and take out and write, not to put in a display case and, and show it off, right? I mean, that's, that's the theory behind all the things that you make.

Frank: Yes. I do, I do have customers that, uh, just do it. They put it in their, uh, yeah, and that's okay too. Yeah. And their showcase. But I think every piece I make is allowed to be used and should be used. Yeah. I love that idea.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I love this conversation with you. I could sit here. We get, we could have a two, a two hour conversation. I want to wrap this next question because I think they might kind of relate and it's just a question about, uh, the description on your website and you, you can correct my pronunciation. Um, you have Elbwood and it says the, the, the Hansiatic pen maker. Is that a fair pronunciation? So I was like, I was doing my research trying to figure out what this, what this was. And I think there's an interesting, uh, background on that name. Can you tell me why that's an important, uh, kind of like subtext to the overall creativity of, of the website and of the products I should say?

Frank: Mm-hmm. Uh, Hamburg is a Hanseatic city. Uh, there are other cities in Germany and around the Baltic Sea that are Hanseatic cities. The Hanse, uh, in German was, uh, uh, traders, uh, what, what is it? It's not a company. It's a group, a group of tradesmen, a guild, a guild. Yeah. That is the English term. Um, they usually, those usually were towns close to waterways where they could ship their goods and they protected themselves from pirates. Mm-hmm. Uh, it derived in the medieval times, 1500, 1600, something like that. And they, this guild made up some rules to, to honor. So, and there are some sayings still relevant today. Um, when you make a deal, you shake your hands. You, you, you, you give yourself your hands and that is the deal. It's more important than what's written in the contract. You look into your eyes, give you your hands, uh, and, and you make an honest deal. Um, so honesty was, uh, transparency. So very, very old, uh, values, but very relevant today. And they were very proud. Um, they were very successful tradesmen. They're very rich. Some of those families became in the early days and they built huge buildings, especially in Hamburg. You guys would love it in America because you don't have, uh, buildings that old. Right. Exactly. You don't have a thousand year old buildings. Right. And, and when you come over here, you, you, you look at them and think, wow, what is that? It's all made of stone and so much wealth and stuff. And they contributed to the community by, for example, building, uh, a town hall or building concert houses or building churches or whatever. And, uh, because of this proudness and this pride, uh, they took, uh, some extra, what is it? Self-consciousness, uh, when it comes to politicians, to kings and queens, to monarchy and stuff, for example, in Hamburg, the town hall, there are steps to go upstairs. And there is, up today, the mayor of the town, uh, stands on top of the stairs. No matter how important the visitors are, they have to walk up the stairs. It was more important in times of monarchy because usually you go down to your knees when the king or the queen are arriving, but here they have to look up to you. And that is, those are just some nice, historical facts that I like that have some regional meaning, but actually they have some global meaning in them as well. Because you, you don't buy, uh, or you don't invest in one of my pieces if you don't believe in these values. Right.

Brad Dowdy: Right. And, and then, and it's like, uh, it, all this came out when, like, you and I were making a pin, right? Like I decided to reach out to you. I saw a material I liked and we essentially worked out all of the details on a handshake agreement, right? In the front to manufacture this thing. And like, I had my, like, we didn't necessarily know each other, but I had my faith in, in you and what you're going to make. And you had your faith in me as a customer that, Hey, he's actually going to pay for this thing when we're done. but, um, but, but that's how our design process went. I was like, Hey, uh, Frank, this, this is what I want. How can we do this? And then we just have this one-to-one conversation and shake deal, um, talking about craftsmanship and making a beautiful product and it, it all works out perfectly. So I think that, that in my experience that really comes through in how you present, you know, elbowed online and the products that you make, it really, it kind of ties everything in together, right? Like it feels like one cohesive brand and product. And there's like this through line of the story and the design and the creativity and the craftsmanship that like I can see as an outsider, but that only comes from like the person behind the lathe, which is you to put all that together. So I, I, I find it very impressive. So, so.

Frank: Oh, thank you. Yeah. It was a lot of effort to, to, to sure, to get there. Sure. Um, but I realized this, this trust worthiness, what it has to do, it, uh, it works. I mean, it's a little crazy. I think I still sometimes don't, don't believe it when people from all over the world go to my online shop and buy two or even three pieces, pay, pay via PayPal. And my system tells them, well, I make one thing after the other. It might be four to six months until they get there. And they, they don't seem to mind. Uh, at first I, I thought it would never work, but, uh, I think because it's just the way it is. And I tell the way it is. And there's no show people trust and do it. And I'm happy to wait.

Brad Dowdy: Exactly. Exactly. So I don't want to keep you too much longer. So I want to, I want to preface this next question and then maybe I'll get you out of here on this. I think about design a lot, whether it's any type of products, it doesn't have to be pins, stationary. And I was reading an interview, um, of yours where we were talking about the design and I've kind of alluded to earlier, like I, I hate saying that the, the designs are simple, but because they're not, they're extremely complex, but they, the appearances are such that where it's like a simple, you get the idea. Anyone can get the idea of what they see when they see an elbow pin. And one of the quotes you, you use, or one of the phrases you used in this interview was the path of reduction, um, in a design. And that really resonated with me because I always felt like my job, if I was ever designing a product is, I guess, kind of twofold. One, I had to, my design had to represent, um, the customer had to know what to do with the product when I provided it to them, right? I created in a way that they don't have questions about how to use a product. At the same time, I also put my stamp on it in that I believe in this design and it may not be for everybody, right? And there's this, this path, the way you described path of reduction. Can you elaborate on that idea a little bit? Because I think that's a good way to think about making things. Like, I've never wanted to make something for everybody, if that makes sense. And I think that path of reduction kind of falls into that category.

Frank: Yes, it does. The one advantage you have being a single person designing things is that you can rely on your own decisions. You don't rely on a marketing team or on a sales team who say, oh, it's not for the masses or it's not, not everybody likes it. So, so you can, if you find the guts to do it, put out a thing that's well thought out knowing not everybody will like exactly this piece. But others will love it because of these reasons. And those are the ones resonating to your design.

Frank: And reducing things, bringing, focusing on the most important part of a thing is always tough work. I mean, you work with your blogging, your podcasting. To come to the point, the essence of something is lots of work, preparation, thinking over and over. Can I leave this word out? How can I get the message out there? And so at first glance, it might look simple, but in reality, it was a whole lot of work. And my design idea was to find a form that gives stage to the materials I'm having now, I encounter now, or might encounter in the future. And sometimes, if you look at the whole world of pens, I mean, there are so many variables of pens out there. Sometimes I get the impression there is a material everybody likes and it's hyped, so it's used by the industry. And if you leave away the material and only look at the form, you get some disappointment pretty quick. Sure. So I was making lots of effort to put in the form so it can function with almost every material put out because that is a sign of quality for the form. Material can make a show. Enhance it. Enhance it, yes. But it can also make mistakes in the form disappear because the material itself is so nice. But form, you cannot make a mistake. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Very true.

Frank: And these are thousands of inches sometimes. And the funny thing is it took me so much time because some mistakes I made actually went into the final pen. I was making a mistake on the lathe, screaming because it was the last step of the pen. And I thought, no, no. And then I looked at it, wow, that's even better than before. And then this mistake, a thought to be a mistake, became a very important part of just a little sleek angle and it makes it more elegant. Nice. So reducing is hard work.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It is. Unfortunately. That's the hardest. That's the hardest. That's the hardest part. Well, Frank, this has been amazing. Is there anything I want to give you opportunity if you want to, you know, I'll have all the links to your website and everything. Is there anything you want to share with anyone? I know you're always bringing in new materials. I love seeing all the work that you do. So I will definitely point everyone to the website to check everything out. Is there anything else you want to share with anyone?

Frank: I think one thing because it's the biggest adventure for me so far. I mentioned gold before. Yeah. I don't have it online yet. Okay. I will go to Dubai in fall, I think, to, I think there's a pen show. I'm not good at visiting pen shows. They have to be better than that, I thought. Yeah. There was just the Dutch pen show last weekend. I couldn't manage. That's on my bucket list. San Francisco, Washington, D.C., London. I want to be more outgoing next year. That's, I might come back to you asking for advice in the future where to go. But the golden part is very special. As I told you, it took me so much time to find the boldness to work with this very expensive material. My problem is I work out of solid material. Right. Not thin leaves. Right. And this one became, I think, the best one I ever made. All right.

Brad Dowdy: Well, you have to share that with me so I can share that with others when it arrives. And maybe I can send

Frank: you a picture of that one and get an honest opinion back. All right. And I'm not saying that because it's so expensive. This will be the most expensive piece I've ever made. I had sleepless nights about that.

Frank: But it's hammer blown. I use a hammer and hammer on a piece, a lot of gold, and make a hammer blown pocket master out of 750, 18k rose gold. Wow. It just looks amazing.

Frank: And that would be something, if I find the time, I would like to send you a picture and maybe you give me an opinion on it or maybe you can share it.

Brad Dowdy: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, this has been amazing. Again, I could talk design. You know, maybe I will have to get myself over to your area and come see the workshop that I am so much in love with and I obviously love the products and I really, really appreciate the time you spent with us today. And I look forward to the future of Elbwood and everything that you're going to make.

Frank: Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Well, that's a wrap. Thank you all for listening to this episode of the Pen Attic Podcast and we will be back next week with more fun pen stationery and amazing writing instrument talk. So thank you and we'll see you again next week. Thank you.