The Pen Addict 310/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	310
Title:	A Mini Reckoning
Release Date:	May 30th, 2018
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 310
Audio File:	Audio Episode 310
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 310
Length:	5757 min <br />0.95 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 310. Today's show is brought to you by Away. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad Dowdy. Hey Myke Hurley, how are you? Good my man, good my man. Busy. So busy.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah. So we're both hitting the road very soon and that makes for busy weeks for us, doesn't it?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, this is my biggest work trip of the year. I'm heading to Apple's WWDC conference in San Jose next week. Well, I'm actually leaving on Saturday. We're doing our biggest live show ever, Brad. We have over 500 people coming to see us, which I'm really excited about. So yeah, got a lot on my plate.

Brad Dowdy: One of these years, I'll have to forego a pen show to go to WWDC just for the RelayCon aspects of it.

Brad Dowdy: That would be fun. That's on my hit list for one of these years, but it's like I don't have enough to do otherwise, so I just have to make a family trip out there and spend a day doing the Relay thing and then just do San Francisco stuff otherwise. Well, you'd be well welcome. Oh, thank you. I appreciate the invite. So I'll be crashing with you next week. Once I get back, we're just going to fly out of Raleigh. Yep. And me and the kids.

Brad Dowdy: We'll make space for you. I think we have a pullout sofa bed type thing in our room. So I'll sleep anywhere. We'll hook you up. Triangle Pen Show if you're traveling into it, so be careful, please.

Triangle Pen Show

Myke Hurley: I'm on the website, the Triangle Pen Show website. This website has a lot of information on it, which is really good, but they've made some very particular decisions that I don't think I agree with, of the design of this website. Right.

Brad Dowdy: I'm going to go with unique. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And I'm going to tell you this right now. It's better than last year's. Okay. Okay. So I don't know how, but somehow they've changed it enough to manage an improvement, but it is unique.

Myke Hurley: Well, they get the necessary information award, right? They win that. Correct. That's very important to have all the necessary information. But I think somebody needs to just help them out just slightly with the design.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Hashtag GeoCities, right? I mean. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Mm-hmm. It's got that vibe. But hey-ho, look, at the end of the day, obviously, this is, I'm just going to assume this is made by someone, like, this isn't something that is mega important to them or something that they're not, like, 100% sure how to do would be my expectation. But the most important thing is information on these types of websites. And they have provided that. And that's really good. I think that's really, really good.

Brad Dowdy: This is par for the course in the pen show world. Mm-hmm. Except the information is actually up-to-date and accurate. So that's always appreciated. So, yeah. I'm bringing Nock. I packed up the shop Monday. I don't know how heavy this bag is that I packed, but I weigh overpack on shows that I drive to because you can. So I'll be bringing all the goodies. We'll have the new chimney tops and sapelos. And I'll have the kids in tow. So they'll be slinging Nock Co. goods all weekend long. They're really excited. We have a couple fun things planned with them to do while we're at the show. So it's going to be fun. Be sure to come by and say hi. And we'd love to see you hang out at the show. And, yeah. We don't have any, like, after-hours events planned, but I'm sure we'll be, you know, hanging out at the bar like we did last year and just chit-chatting and having a good time. So I look forward to it. It's been almost two months, month and a half since Atlanta. So I've missed being at a pin show. So I'm ready for this one. Should be fun. So do you need me, when I get there, do you need me to buy you a Sailor Stormy Sea? Or were you in on this one or out on this one?

Myke Hurley: I was, like, undecided on the Stormy Sea. And I think I still mostly am. I feel like that I'm, like, the inverse for you with the Tangerine, where I'm kind of just, like, so-so on it. And then maybe when I hold it, like, I'll feel differently. I didn't know. So, like, Susan did a great review on your blog. And I didn't know that this Stormy Sea had, like, kind of a glittery effect to it. And, like, maybe if I see that, that might tip me over the edge. But this would be an in-person purchase because I'm not dying for this one, to be honest.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's what actually confused me about this pen. And I guess in a good way. Like, the images, it came out so fast. Like, it just appeared out of the ether. And we mentioned it, you know, a week or two ago that it existed. And then I got to see one when I was at Dromgolds. I was like, oh, this is different than just some of the flat, solid colors that they released, like the Fresca and the gray and even the orange. This one has, like you said, it's got some depth to it. It's got the chatoyance, which I don't even, that's like my least favorite fountain pen word. It's, that's like the... What does that mean? Yeah, I don't even know if I said it right because I hate that word. Susan's a big fan of the word. But it means like the, like that swirl of color that you see in the different light, the lighting.

Myke Hurley: Right.

Brad Dowdy: Like as you rotate it.

Myke Hurley: Okay. Yeah. Chatoyancy is an optical reflectance effect seen in certain gemstones. That's what Wikipedia tells me. But when you see, if you've, if you've ever seen like Tiger's Eye, like that's, that is a good example of chatoyancy.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. So this pen looks great now that we've, I've gotten to lay hands on it. And Susan actually captured it pretty well in the picture. She's a really good photographer. Man. And this is a hard one, another hard one to photograph. So take a look at that one if you're interested in seeing like what this pen is because it's not as flat as the other words, other ones that are available recently. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I like it. But I like it too.

Brad Dowdy: I just, like I said, when we first mentioned it, like I said, I'm holding out for the ocean. Like I'm definitely getting the ocean.

Myke Hurley: See, this is one of those things where because of how many different designs Sailor make and how wild and wonderful they can be, it makes me like less inclined to get something like this. Because I've seen like millions more amazing ones, including like a couple of days ago, there was some, I think it was some Instagram posts that mean you got tagged in or maybe it was on Twitter or something of this just like wild looking Sailor Pro gear that I think we've seen. We've maybe seen before. Do you know what I'm talking about? It's like, see if I can try to find it.

Sailor Pens

Brad Dowdy: So we're going to talk about this later. This is actually one of the reasons why I put this part in here now because we're going to talk about what I think that I can't even answer your question accurately because there's so many of them.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I mean, I don't even know where I saw it now. The past day or two, I've seen the creamsicle one posted twice, which is an orange barrel and white end caps. And it's amazing. But I don't think that's the one you're talking about.

Myke Hurley: No, it was like a sparkly one or something. And now I can't find it now. That's frustrating.

Pinch LA Argo Retro 51

Brad Dowdy: Well, did you find the new Pinch LA Argo Retro 51?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I saw this. I saw them teasing it on Instagram and checked it out yesterday. This is a really interesting looking Retro 51. It's pretty high concept. It's based on some Greek mythology, but set in the future. I assume that this design came from Pinch LA. And if so, Ron's getting out there, man. He's got some ideas going on.

Brad Dowdy: This was a huge surprise. I'm like, wait, what is happening here? You know, excuse me. I just saw the packaging image, right? With the space theme and Argo. And I didn't put anything together. I'm like, what is this? I had to go read and see what it's about. But it's a mythology, story-based, futuristic, around Jason and the Argonauts. And, you know, that's an old, you know, an old mythology and a current, well, recent-ish movie, you know, TV. So, yeah, this was some thought went into this one. And, you know, I'm not buying this one. Like, I've bought too many Retro 51s, but it's kind of cool, the design. I think they'll probably do pretty well. So, it's like we're the unofficial Retro 51 podcast now. It's like we got to mention these cool new things. But, yeah, that's one to check out. It caught me off guard, for sure.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, there's two colors. There's like two variant colors, and they're limited to 250 each. 250 pieces each. So, if this is your bag, go get one. I'm in the same boat as you. I've bought maybe too many recently. I like the look of this one, but I'm not dying for it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Right? I love the pins came out great. Like, I love that look. To me, like, I don't know enough about the Jason and the Argonauts story. When I see the pins, I just think, like, Battlestar Galactica. And that's kind of rad.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that there's obviously some high concept going on here, right? Like, I don't think anybody would look at that and be like, oh, that's Jason and the Argonauts. Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Which is good. Like, I think they kind of nailed what they were trying to do. Yeah. So, I can't wait to share the one I'm working on. It might fall in the high concept category and everyone might hate it. I haven't seen this, have I? Uh-uh. Everyone might hate it. But I'm okay with it because I'm pretty happy with it. So, I might just have 500 of these for myself. It'll keep me in stock for the rest of my lifetime. But, yeah, I'll share it. As soon as I get the prototype in, it's in process. So, in about a month, I'll have the prototype and we'll share it out. Share it out then. But, yeah, you want to see high concept? I've got your high concept coming, Myke.

Myke Hurley: Okay. Okay.

Brad Dowdy: I'll keep my eye out. You know where I can fit 500 Retro 51s, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Where?

Brad Dowdy: In Away luggage.

Myke Hurley: That's where. Most definitely. This episode is brought to you by Away. They are a team of thinkers, seekers, and designers who make smart premium suitcases. So, your luggage won't have to cost you more than your plane ticket. If you ever travel, I know this happens to me every time I travel. I know it's going to happen to me in a couple of days. I'm going to be like, oh, man, I've drained my phone battery. Like, how do I do this? Every time I travel, my battery of all my devices is used way faster than normal. And when I'm traveling, what I always need is more battery. And if you have an Away suitcase, if you have an Away carry-on, you're going to be fine. Because both of their Away carry-ons feature USB ports of a battery included. It's large enough to charge your phone five times from a single charge. It's a fantastic battery. You can easily pop it out as well. Like, so, if you want to check your luggage, you can do that. And then you can still have the battery with you when you board the plane. So, you can still use the battery to charge your devices whilst you're on flight. It's awesome. It's really, really great. You can go to awaytravel.com slash panaddict right now. And you can browse Away suitcases. They feature premium German polycarbonate, which is unrivaled in strength and impact resistance, whilst remaining lightweight. As well as their two sizes of carry-on. There's also a medium, large, and a kid's carry-on. They have lots of options of sizes and tons of colors. Over 10 colors. And they're always adding new styles. I got one of the aluminium ones. And I am in love with it. Like, I am just in love with it. I've always seen people... Yeah, you brought that one to Atlanta, right? Yeah. Yeah, I've always seen people with these, like... You're in, like, an airport and you see someone with aluminium luggage. It's all dented and stuff, right? Because that's what happens to it. Like, it will get dented. But that's part of the appeal of a case like that. And, oh man, I love it. All of Away's suitcases have a patent-pending compression system, which is great if you're an overpacker, along with four 360-degree spinner wheels. All of their carry-ons are compliant with major US airlines, while still maximizing the amount that you can pack. And they have TSA combination locks built in, so if you get a TSA check, they won't bust your suitcase open. They can just use the TSA lock, which is awesome. They also feature a removable washable laundry bag, so you can separate your clean clothes from your worn ones. This has totally changed the way that I deal with packing and unpacking, because I now do this where, like, all the clothes that I wear, that I want to wash when I get home, I put inside of the laundry bag, zip up the laundry bag, put it in my case, then when I get home, I unzip the laundry bag and dump it into the hamper. And then everything else that's left in the case can either be put back in the wardrobe or is not closed. I love it. I really, really love that. It's such a simple thing, but it's awesome.

Brad Dowdy: So, how many times over the past year have I asked you for our away code? Many times. Many times. I'm, like, determined to buy one, and then I'll go, and then I'll go, oh, I just don't need it. It's, you know, I've got my carry system down. I don't need it. And every time I travel, all I want is the rolling check-in luggage. Like, I'm, like, almost desperate for it. So, even last night, Myke, I went to a way site to start, like, building out what I was going to buy, because, you know, I'm also going to London this week, this year, and I'm going to need to pack a lot of stuff, like, a lot more than I normally carry, you know, just for the trip. And I think it's finally time for me to get my away luggage. What I found out last night is when you buy multiple pieces, the discounts just start rolling off. So, that's what's finally putting me over the edge. So, I'm going to pick my colors. I'm going to pick my colors tonight, get it ordered, get it for myself and my wife to travel with. And also, it's going to help me with my travel that I don't check a bag. So, that's kind of the goal here. I've been carrying my Tombin Aeronaut 45, which is one of the best purchases I have ever made. But when I take that as my carry-on, I still also carry a backpack. So, I have my hands full, right? So, I have my backpack on my back, and I carry the Aeronaut. And I would like to have a rolling bag. So, this is it, Myke. I'm doing it for real this time. I'm going to buy my luggage tonight, and I will show you what I purchase once we're done. I just got to pick the color. That's the hard thing. There's like 10 colors. I'm not getting the aluminium ones. I'm getting one of the indestructible ones.

Myke Hurley: Let me help you, Brad. Just go to awaytravel.com slash penaddict and use the code penaddict at checkout, and you'll get $20 off any of their suitcases. Away also have a lifetime guarantee on their products. If anything breaks, they'll fix or replace it for life. And they have a 100-day trial with no questions asked return policy, with free shipping on any orders within the lower 48 states of the U.S. Travel smarter with the suitcase that charges your phone. Once again, that's awaytravel.com slash penaddict and the code penaddict for $20 off. Our thanks to Away for their support of this show and RelayFM.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Let's get deep for a moment, at least right under the surface, which is about as far as I go. I'm a superficial guy. Yeah. I'm not a core of the earth guy. I was on the BYOB Pen Club last week. Is the show out this week? I know I get the show out early. So it is not out yet. So it should be out in like a day or two, I think. We'll put the link in the show notes to the main page. You can go listen to it. But we were going through the show, and we were just talking, and Yevgeny, one of the hosts there, we're going through the general show notes. Like we have a show doc, and you have a general idea of what you're going to talk about. You know, just it's nice to prep and, you know, have a little idea of what you're going to speak about. Then he goes, Oh, I've got a question for you, Brad. That's not in the show notes. I'm like, okay, what is this? Like I'm expecting, you know, like, you know, what is your favorite color? You know, something simple I can handle on the fly. And he goes, Where do you see the stationary industry in the next three or five years?

Brad Dowdy: And I just Googled at him. I was like, You're really just going to drop that on me out of the blue like that? No prep or anything. And I did okay. Like I like to talk. It was funny. I had busted his chops a little bit.

Brad Dowdy: And saying, Wow, like no prep for that one, huh? So I rambled as I do, as I'm doing right now. And, you know, got some of my ideas out on that episode. And it made me think like over the next day or two, I think there's a lot of topics I can elaborate on. So I did that in the Panic members newsletter. And I know not everyone gets that. And I thought it was a good enough topic that I thought we should share where I see the industry right now, the stationary industry as a whole. And where do I see it? And, you know, in the next three, five, 10 years. So what do you think about that? You think we should, we should dig into this, right? And I feel like I should.

Myke Hurley: I read refill. So I'm interested to talk to you about it.

Brad Dowdy: So the episode number 28 of BYOB is out. We'll have the link in the show notes. So go check my answers there. I need to go re-listen to it and see what I even said. But I think I kind of said the same things. And I broke it down when I wrote about it into several sections. So the first one, which is kind of the most important one in my book, it's the reason why we're here today, honestly. It's the reason why the blog has been so successful. It's online retail. The retailers that are successful in this space, like Goulet Pins, Jet Pins, Cult Pins, Van Ness Pins, Anderson, Pen Chalet. I mean, I'm going to leave someone out. I'm not meaning to. This is the core of the industry right now from the perspective of my chair, right? From where I'm sitting, this is the core of the industry. These are the people who do the most, have the most, put the most into it, work the hardest, on the edge of what current consumers are looking for in the market. And since a lot of them have been established over the last five to 10 years, they kind of have this space on lockdown, right? I think it's really hard to be the next Jet Pins or Goulet Pins right now because they're so big. Like, they're just large, large companies. And the hard thing about breaking in is they're good companies, right? These are not big, bad companies like we would think of maybe some like traditional old, you know, not in our industry, brick and mortar, you know, traditional companies. Like, well, I hate Comcast so I can go to AT&T. Like, there's no bad players in this industry, which is great. It's good for all of us. And starting your own online store right now, I'd be a nervous wreck. Like, I think you can do it, right? I looked at a lot of this from would I open a business in this space? That's kind of the lens I took this article through. And I could see starting an online retailer, but you are really up against it. What do you think about like the online retail space? I think we're in a really good spot as consumers and as businesses. They're going to continue to grow. The bigger ones are just going to get bigger, but they're getting bigger because they do the right things around education about products and, you know, social communication and sharing. I think just they do so many good things. They're so big. They're only going to keep growing. What do you think?

Online Stationery

Myke Hurley: Well, I mean, kind of there's two parts, I think, to what you're asking me. I mean, one, I completely agree on the importance of online. I think that as a sales channel now, I mean, it's clear, but I think it's become even more so that online sales for stationary equipment is the main route of sale for any company that wants to grow now. You know, like we had a good conversation, I think, with Lisa at the Penn Show, right? About this very thing, right? Like Van Ness is a store. It's always been a store and they were very stuck in their ways and it took them a long time to get a credible online presence. But when they did, changed their business, like basically overnight because now people from all over the world could buy products from Van Ness, not just people that live in Arkansas, right? Like they're in Arkansas, right? Right, Little Rock. Little Rock, that's it, yeah. So, you know, that makes a huge, huge difference. And of course, one of the other things is companies like yours, right? That like there's no other way for NOC to exist. They're just, it just, because now, now you supply other retailers and that's a whole business, but you wouldn't have ever gotten there unless you were able to start your own online thing first.

Brad Dowdy: Right, and we're definitely going to get to that. Like, I think that's a different category. So we're going to talk about that. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Okay. But like, I believe that online stuff is, that should be, in my opinion, the core of anyone trying to be in this business right now. But you also said about like, how hard is it? Like, is it too difficult now? Like, would you start something today? This is the exact same problem that exists in any successful, because of growth industry. Like, the more something becomes popular, the harder it is to be successful at it. Like, I see this for podcasting now, right? Like, now that podcasting is this big, hot place where all the eyeballs and money is, it is harder than ever to start a show and be successful, right? Like, it's the same with YouTubers, any type of creative endeavor, really. The more people there are focused on it, the more people there are doing it. And then you have to stand out in different ways and rather than just being somebody who does it. Like, for me, I don't think I could start this business that I have now if I started today. Like, I don't think that, like, after four years, I would be where I am now or where I got to after four years, right? Like, to be able to make it part of my living. You know, the success being where I am now, where I am a professional podcaster, that's what I do. I think that that would be significantly harder for me to do today. But I had a head start because I was doing it when it was mostly just technology and public radio. Like, that was all it was. But public radio were just rebroadcasting the stuff that was on the airwaves. So it wasn't really that appealing. You know, so yeah, that's kind of how I feel. Like, yes, you can do it. And yes, you can be a success at it. And if you are successful, there is more success available to you than there ever has been before, right? Because more people care about it. But it's way harder to get to that point because there are lots of people that want to be just like you.

Retail Business Models

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so a lot of these topics that we're going to cover, I get lots of emails about these types of things. And, you know, it's hard to answer, you know, should I start a business? And, you know, what's the right thing to do? And one of those areas, I've actually gotten more emails about traditional retail, like your brick and mortar stores. I've gotten more people interested in opening that type of store than necessarily being an online retailer. And that's an extremely tough market.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I think that's like, it's a bad idea. Like to go from nothing to physical store seems like, that just seems like a bad idea. Like, yes, Caroline Weaver did it, but she's like the, you know, the exception that makes the rule.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And that's the tough part as I do think there is a place for more traditional retail. Yeah, yeah.

Myke Hurley: But I think it needs to be an extension of a business you already own. So like, you're able to actually establish yourself first. I think that's the important part.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. You know, I look at someone like Wonderpins in Toronto, who I mentioned when I wrote it up, that, you know, they started small, you know, lived above the shop, you know, just poured everything they had into it and made it and made it successful just by sheer will and talent. And I think that can be done in other places if it's managed correctly. I don't see any, no one's going to go and drop, you know, a Vaness Pens in, I don't know, Atlanta, Georgia, you know, a shop that big and have that scale and be successful right out of the gate. I can see growing from something small and really focusing on the community around, you know, the new shop opening because that's what makes these shops successful, you know, like Drumgools in Vaness and Anderson Pens is, you know, they, Anderson's in their online reputation and Penshow World reputation and then Vaness and Drumgools in their just familial reputation in the communities. That's how they've grown up from where they were, you know, 20, 30, 50 years ago into what they are now. So I, but like the burdens of traditional retail are so high before you even sell your first pin, right? There's rent and lease and utilities and insurance and employees. You haven't, you haven't even sold a Lamy Safari yet and you're that much into it already. That's the hard part overcoming that.

Myke Hurley: And as well, like you can't do that while still, you can't do that as a side business. That isn't a side business, right? Like you can't set up a physical store as your side thing. Like that has to be your thing thing. Full time. And, but the benefit of an online store is you can kind of make it your side thing, especially if you're starting out. Like that is a thing that you can do. Like that, you know, you, you can manage that, right?

Brad Dowdy: Right. I think we're going to see a little bit of activity in the traditional market in the next five or 10 years from us in a small scale, local community kind of way. Shifting. It was shifting. Yeah. Like I know there's a shop in Seattle that's going to open soon. You know, I can see smaller, you know, just kind of, you know, less than a thousand square feet, like local shops opening up, which is like how Wonderpen started. So it's not going to be a huge growth area because just the overheads are so, it's tough to overcome then you're competing against online retail too. But if you can make,

Myke Hurley: like if you're starting a physical store, you're going to need an online store anyway. Like, yes, so, you know, it's like at that point, I mean, that's what makes it difficult because like at that point, why do you have the store? And there are lots of reasons why you might want to do it, right? We speak about them and you've been talking about the community aspect, but it makes the decision to start your business that way a lot harder, I think.

Small Batch Makers

Brad Dowdy: So the next group is the one that I fall into with Nock, it's the small batch and custom makers. Like, this is what we've seen, boom, right alongside the online retail is small batch and custom goods, Nock, Field Notes, you know, write story supply, Jonathan Brooks, write notepads, everything, people just start, yeah, yeah. This is a big growth area over the past 10 years. It's probably going to continue to be that way. 100%. Small niche, dedicated products. This is where you get around opening that online retail store or traditional retail store by making one thing and making it well, right? I mean, Nock makes pen cases, you know, we have other products, but we essentially, we're known for doing one thing. Yeah. Yeah, we're known for doing one thing and doing it well and that's been successful for us. You know, Field Notes does one thing and they do it well. Write notepads, Jonathan Brooks does one thing and he does it really well. And you just end up building this base of customers.

Brad Dowdy: The larger retails now want to carry your stuff and that's where I think the real inroads is, you know, there's a lot more pen makers coming out.

Myke Hurley: Right,

Brad Dowdy: and Kickstarter. Kickstarter. Yeah, Kickstarter's helped lower the cost of it. Kickstarter took away

Myke Hurley: all of the risk, right? Like, that's what that did. I think, I think that, that for me, honestly, like, we have seen an insurgence and just a, just like, an explosion in this area, I think, over the time that we have been doing the show for the last six years or whatever, that there has been just a huge, huge growth in this small batch in the, like, I make this one thing, look how great it is, I have some cool idea type thing. And I genuinely believe that that has happened because of Kickstarter. Like, that has been the thing that has either enabled people to do it or changed the mindset of people in such a way that you can pull it off. Right, so, like, even if you don't use Kickstarter, I think it's changed some of the attitudes about the types of things that people make and buy and, like, the story behind a product and all that kind of stuff. I think Kickstarter has been, like, one of the big reasons why we're in this situation that we're in now. yeah, so I think that that is just a huge element of it.

Brad Dowdy: Right, right. So, yeah, and I see no end in that, right? There's continual need for, you know, these types of small things to solve problems, to fit people's tastes and desires, and they'll continue to be filled. And, yeah, I just see it, you know, continuing to grow. I mentioned in refill that, you know, think about the percentage of your spending and how much it has gone to this category over the last couple years and I'd have a feeling it's probably a lot, right?

Myke Hurley: Oh, 100%.

Big Brands

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so, that brings us into the big brands. Like, this is an area, like, I don't, one thing I want to, I'll stop and say this right now, is, this is the view from my chair. Like, I don't have knowledge of all these operations of all these companies and how they work. This is just my perception of being in the industry and talking to people and having my own business. This is my, you know, my perception of what I think. I certainly, you know, will, you know, give it to the, the other experts and business owners if they would like to chime in and, and correct, you know, where I'm, I'm mistaken. I would love to hear from anyone who wants to add to this conversation. But back to the big brands, this is where I get confused a little bit just as far as how they're going to continue to grow and succeed because they're growing and succeeding big time. So I mentioned two brands in the article, Pelican and Sailor, and they both confuse me in their own right. Pelican has, I, the, the anecdote I told was about me being in drum ghouls and seeing literally every Pelican pin you would see in a Pelican catalog. Every size, every style, every shape, essentially all their striped models in fountain, rollerball, ballpoint, pencil, in every size from 200 up to 1,000. Like, literally the entire Pelican catalog. And the only pin people repeatedly asked to see was the Pelican Ocean Swirl, which is a special edition they launched. You know, it's sitting there amongst the Pelicans too. The regular stock lineup. So, does the stock lineup continue to be a successful endeavor for Pelican? Is that their main source of income? I'd argue that yes, it's very important to them for new customers, continuing customers, gift and corporate customers. But, in our world, you know, the online world, the pin addict world, we want to know where the limited editions are. So, the question I posed is, does Pelican want to sell you one or two pins over your lifetime? Or do they want to sell you one or two pins a year? And what are the percentages of those sales? Like, the one or two pins over a lifetime, is that 75% of their sales? Because that market is so huge that I just don't have scope of? Or, is it all the limited editions, that they churn through, you know, six or eight or ten times throughout the year, does that take up 50 or 60% of their sales? I would wager not. So, I'm confused on that. Like, what is going to happen with a super big brand like Pelican who has a core lineup that never changes, right? When's the last time Pelican's introduced, like, new base level stripe pins? I mean, I don't know. I'm not a Pelican expert. I could probably ask Joshua and find out. So, I don't know.

Brad Dowdy: So, that's the question I have around them. These are just things I'm like saying out loud because I don't have answers to. I assume the core product lineup obviously does very well for them in a lot of markets. But I wonder if there will be a shift in that, you know, in the near term. On the other side of the coin, I talk about Sailor and I wonder, do you even know what their stock lineup is? Are they purely limited in special editions? I mean, the answer is no. They have a stock lineup, but I couldn't name it for you. Like, I could name Pelican's stock lineup right now. You know, it's probably 50, 60, 80 pins. I can't tell you what Sailor's stock lineup is. Is that important to them as a business? Do they only do these special releases now? I just, these are just things I'm asking out loud because I don't really have the answers for, but I find it interesting that two huge brands like that operate in very, very different ways, I think. Do you have anything to say on these?

Myke Hurley: I would expect that, and I'm trying to think of the analogy, but I can't think of it, but I know there is one, that the standard edition Pelicans, you know, and this is probably the same for a company like Montblanc too, the sale of those editions pay for everything else. So, like, that would be my expectation is the corporate and executive sales and the graduation presents and all that kind of stuff, those pens, the standard ones that they sell, the black ones with the gold trim or whatever, you know, they are, I would expect, paying for the creativity that can occur in the limited editions. Because I would expect for a company like Pelican, or the size of Pelican, that they, considering they're seeming to do more of this sort of stuff now than they have before, potentially, my expectation is this is just people who are creative who just want to make some beautiful pens and they do these as a thing to sell to their kind of hardcore client, people like you, right? Right, right. And they will, and they will just keep doing those and they charge probably a premium for them, so it just, you know, because whatever, why not? But I would expect that a lot of the costs that is required for this type of stuff is recouped by their kind of standard edition, their bread and butter.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So this was the group where I had the most questions and the least answers, right? And I find it extremely interesting what the future is going to hold for the big brands.

Myke Hurley: I think a lot of them are not stupid. I think that's why this has happened. Right? Except Lamy. Lamy's stupid. Lamy is questionable. Lamy is questionable. Because the thing about Lamy is, like, they've always been a little bit more wild than the others anyway, right? Like, to begin with. Because they do special editions in certain countries and, you know, they've always, for as long as I've known them, they've done some stuff. It's just, they don't make special editions of their expensive pens. Yeah. They make special editions of the Safari or whatever, right? Their special editions are way more frequent in their plastic pens than their Macrolon pens or whatever that material is called. You know? Man. But I... Can you imagine

Brad Dowdy: if they expanded that Macrolon lineup? Good lord. Sorry.

Myke Hurley: I assume that there is a reason and that reason is maybe not wanting to dilute the specialness of the 2000. Sure.

Brad Dowdy: I know. And again, this is, the big brands is also the perfect example of I only see it through my eyes, right? Like, I have no clue about how these brands operate worldwide. You know, it's certainly an interesting topic and I think we're both right in that these, the Pelican example is, you know, that's a super healthy business for them and that allows them to do the other fun things that pen addicts like to buy. So, yeah, it's good for all of us. So, last topic I wrote about were pen shows and vintage pens. I kind of lumped those things together because vintage is really hard to purchase online. Like, a pen show is a really good place to buy vintage. I think the pen show circuit will have a mini reckoning here in the next five to ten years where some shows are going to die out, smaller shows are going to grow, and new shows might pop up to take over some of these fading away shows. At some point, that's got to happen. We may see it. You know, this year is the telling year for DC. I mean, DC's not going to go away, per se, but it might be a completely different show as soon as next year, depending on what happens. You know, I talked about how some of the traditional vendors are boycotting the show and not going to go to the show because, you know, the people who run the show are not really good at their jobs. LA has that kind of same problem. So, are you going to see some churn in the pin show world? I kind of think so. Like, I think there's room, not today, but, like, in the next few years, there might be room for one or two, like, new style shows where it's not just a pin show, it's the pin convention topic that we've talked about for years, right? I could see that happening, like, in a place like Philadelphia or Baltimore or Atlanta or things like that. So, you know, San Francisco is a prime example of a show that's, you know, really turned up the heat on these traditional shows and it's going to start cutting out, you know, some of the, some of the smaller, less well-run shows. So, I see opportunities there. I actually see opportunity in vintage pins if some of the vintage vendors would take the time or we have some new vintage vendors come up that have an education front as the leading, the leading thing that they want to sell. Vintage pins are scary to a lot of people that listen to our show and, you know, that are newer into the industry because they just don't know a lot about them. There's not a lot of information. The information is hard to find or hard to digest and you have to go talk to people in person at pin shows to learn these things and not everyone can do that. So, there's an opportunity, a real opportunity. Someone like Jesse, who's in the chat room and is on the BYOB podcast, she's a huge Esther Brook restorer. She's like one of the most nicest people you'll meet. She'll sit there and talk to you and tell you everything about these pins and that's why people shop with her because she makes it easy for you. A lot of vintage vendors do not make it easy for you. There's a massive opportunity for someone to come in and do vintage for the modern consumer and I don't know if that's going to happen. I would love it to happen. I would support them every step of the way. I would go out of my way to do anything I could because we actually we need this vintage market to continue on through our lifetimes and I'm a little scared that it's not. And I'm not the person that can lead that charge. That's not my area of expertise but there's a lot of people our age that are really into vintage pins. I just think there's a massive educational opportunity there for someone who wants to take that ball and run with it. We'll see. That's one of those things I hope will happen that I don't know will happen but I would die to see that. That would be a great thing and it won't be easy because like I said on selling that stuff online is super tough. If you could make a name for yourself in quality vintage pins and education of said pins I think you could do pretty well.

Myke Hurley: I agree with that actually.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah and I would love to shop with that person. Like I pay premiums for vintage pins that I know have been restored and come from someone I respect like Martin Ferguson. You know it's worth me buying you know $150 vacuum that I know is perfect and I can just take home and go than a $75 vacuumatic from some that's just laying on a table you know with you know ink stains and jacked up nibs that you don't know what's going to happen with that pin. So I don't know. I think there's a there's an opportunity in both pin shows and vintage pins and we'll see what happens. I hope to see some changes in that too. So any last thoughts on this? I talked about this a lot more in refill went into depth on a lot of these topics and still only scratched the surface right? That's like 10% of the conversation and it's also skewed by my perception.

Myke Hurley: And a lot of this is conjecture like sure it's what we think and and that that you know you can take that with a grain of salt but I think that there are certain areas that we've can't help but have paid a lot of attention to you know especially around kind of the indie scene. Right. But that that's the big one for me. I think that we're going to see more of that. I think that we I know you're pretty you seem pretty bullish on like more traditional retail. I'm less than than you are on that like I think that it will it will change but I don't think that the business is going to get bigger. I just think a lot of the old God are going to go away.

Brad Dowdy: It's far and away the scariest traditional retail is the scariest. I mean if it wasn't scary I would have opened a pen shop in Atlanta already.

Myke Hurley: Of course you would have. Right. But there is nowhere near the same like kind of risk will reward ratio than there is setting up a Kickstarter campaign right for a thing that you want to make. Plus the bit that those businesses are just so different anyway. But yeah so it's it's I find it to be very interesting to look at the kind of the business and the economics of this and again like I'm keen to see where we are in the next few years.

Brad Dowdy: Yep.

Industry Growth

Brad Dowdy: Overall picture is super positive though I think I mean it's got to be like this industry is growing there's no stopping it. You know everything I read online just in general business terms sees growth in the stationary industry for the next five years sees it to be pretty solid just in the the overall big picture and I'm glad we can bring some some fun to it Myke. I love what I do. This is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. I am y'all are stuck with me for the long haul.

Brad Dowdy: Especially you Myke you're your host. I absolutely love every minute of what I do and I'm going to keep doing it as long as this industry will have me and I think that's going to be a long time so I look forward to the years to come.

Myke Hurley: Do you want to wrap up on a couple of us TPA?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah so we actually have a bunch that I put in this doc and we're not going to get to all of them today but I'm going to put ink dependence on the spot next week with the rest of these ass TPAs that we don't get to. So yeah I'm not

Myke Hurley: going to be on next week's episode.

Brad Dowdy: So Myke won't be here next week but Myke will. So we're covered.

Myke Hurley: Myke please don't do it to people. You're just breaking people's brains at this point.

Brad Dowdy: So yeah let's hit a few of these and then we'll save the rest for next week because I'm going to have a lot to talk to Mr. Ink Dependence about. So let's hit this one from Liz real quick. Is there such a thing as a good medium bold fountain pen for someone whose writing is real small and cramped? My dad can't stand a fine point and he has tiny writing but I would love to find him a fountain pen. So this is kind of like an impossible question but I do think there's an answer. You want a firm nib right? So you don't want to buy you want to buy a steel nib pen that from a company that is known to have firm nibs. You could even do a gold nib if you did sailor like hard nibs. But like something like a Pelican gold nib would be a terrible idea for having a wide line but still consistently right small. So you want to look at something like Twisby I think has very firm nibs for the width of the pens.

Brad Dowdy: Pilots steel nibs you know you can get a great medium nib that's a wonderful writer you know even in the in the Pilot Metropolitan. I think those are kind of the two I would look I would look at for a wider nib that's still going to give you some control for writing small. So that that's where I would start.

Brad Dowdy: Sarah asked does your daughter have a pen pencil and notebook picked out for tracking auction prices. So that was the I I've talked about it a million times that was one of the highlights of our trip to Raleigh last year was the auction because it's the first time I'd sat through one and my daughter ended up loving it like I thought she would last like five minutes and she ended up never wanting to leave. So she does not yet. So we're going to work on that today. We're going to pick it out pick out her her carry for this trip auction kit and the auction kit. So we'll get that taken care of today and we'll make sure we'll post it on Instagram what she's going to use but she'll probably track they provide a tracking sheet actually. So you get a print out when you go to the auction that lists all the lots and the opening bid and the ending bids and if they have a reserve. So she'll track it on there but she will pick out her pen and pencil to to use for her auction kit. So Alan wants to know what tool method do you use to get notified of new pen and stationary content on the web. Google alerts doesn't seem to work for me. Google alerts is really sketchy. I use it some but I'm a hardcore RSS person. I am a big feed reader. You know I am one of the biggest backers of any RSS service just because it makes my life easier. It makes my work easier. How do you follow this Myke. I mean one of the good ideas is to follow some blogs like the Well Appointed Desk and the Gentleman Stationer and Gourmet Pens who post links every year right. So I mean every week. So you can go every year. That'd be a long time. That'd be a big post. So every week they'll post a grouping of say 20 or 30 links to content that they enjoyed this week. So that's one way. I personally just I bring in those links to those articles through RSS. That's the way I go. Is there any other option you could recommend?

Myke Hurley: I just follow Twitter accounts. I don't use RSS. I don't use any type of news aggregation service. It's just what I see on Twitter and I'm not even a Twitter completionist. So there's things that I know the things that I miss but I kind of got over that a while ago.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So Twitter you can create lists. So I don't have one now but I used to have like a stationary list and you can just put in feeds from the blogs and things like that. Like I have a separate Twitter account that's pin underscore addict that is only the RSS feed from the blog. So you subscribe to that and you see every all the content that I create and then you can make a list of all the other you know blogs and bloggers and just you know Twitter people who you want to follow and learn about those things. So I'm all aboard the RSS train choo choo and hopefully it does not go away anytime soon. All right. I want to hit one more Myke which is a combination of three questions and we'll wrap it on this and then we'll save everything till next week because we are in that gift giving time of year and I get a lot of questions on that with graduation happening. So first one Brian Hamilton. What's the best gift to give somebody that you're trying to get into fancy pens? Second one from Beware Ninja. What pen would you give as a congratulatory gift for a librarian who just got a great new job? And third one from Doc Krog. I got a couple friends I'm trying to buy a proper pen wedding present for. What's a good gift for a jazz trumpet player and a left handed vet? That's very specific Doc Krog. I love you for that. This would be their first nice pen experiences. Cartridge preferred. So I lumped all those together because you're kind of talking in the same grouping of answers for all three of these questions outside of the jazz trumpet player who if you can afford it Doc Krog. Montblanc has a wonderful Miles Davis edition you should look into. So that would be a pretty amazing pretty amazing gift. But as far as the best gift to give someone that you're trying to get into fancy pens.

Gift Pens

Brad Dowdy: It depends right? Like I love the TWSBI Eco and the Pilot Metropolitan but I'm kind of probably not giving that for a gift pen. Like I'm probably going to like the Lamy Studio.

Brad Dowdy: Something that's a little bit nicer but doesn't break the bank. You know the steel nib Lamy Studios are like $70-80. They look beautiful. They write really well. I prefer the finer nibs on those. Like I stick with extra fine only. Those are really good. Then you can depending on your budget you can go up from there into you know a whole world of pens between $100 and $200. But I think like the best quality from someone who has no idea about a pen you can get some really nice Lamy pens. Even if it's not a fountain pen the Lamy 2000 roller ball and ballpoint are real good. The Lamy 2000 ballpoint is one of my favorite ball points and it was like $60-70. A fantastic pen. For the librarian I want to say pilot vanishing point and I don't know why. I think it's just a good utility pen to take all around the library. Take notes as you're walking around. It's got that retractable feel. But that's not really a pen for everyone. That's not a pen for someone who's just getting into fountain pens. Maybe one of the lower end pelicans with the steel nibs like the 200-205 series for the librarian. Something like that. Or you can if your budget allows for it getting something like really neat and cool like a Franken-Kristoff. You know barrel something like that. You know I you got any suggestions for the librarian. I I'm not totally sure.

Myke Hurley: No one of my problems here is that with these questions I feel like I'm I don't recommend things as widely as you. Like my recommendations typically seem to be very similar these days. Right. Yeah. Because I have I feel like I can make a bunch of recommendations but I don't really feel like I have anything specific for this one. Like I just don't really think that I have something that can can really help.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. Because I keep looking at the Lamy Studios even for Doc Krog because they make a piano black Lamy Studio that's got this great polished black barrel which would be great for maybe the trumpet player. Even the left even the left hander. I you know it's really really hard like without a budget. What do you classify as a nice pen you know is are we talking like a retro 51 like rollerball like that's an extraordinarily nice pen for a lot of people. Are we talking about like a Lamy Studio in the $80 range or are we looking at like a Pilot Custom 912 that's like $200 that's just a beautiful like wedding present pen. So it's a it's a super tricky to answer these questions. That's why I kind of wanted to talk through and a lot of my answers are the same like I really recommend the Lamy Studio a lot for gifts because it it ticks a lot of boxes for gift expectations right. like you're probably not going to go wrong if that's the kind of thing you want to do.

Myke Hurley: Yeah I agree. I agree. I was trying to wreck my brain for like something that I feel would be design specific like for a librarian like kind of think of a pen that has words on it or something. Yeah. Right. And I can't really think of anything.

Brad Dowdy: Well like some of the retro 51 like the retro 51 cursive or some of the retro 51 like metalsmith historic type things those would be great for librarians and they make fountain pen models of those as well so you know that's a that's kind of a cool like theme theme look if you will. So yeah it it it really just depends like it's super hard to answer these questions so that's why I lumped them all together just to go through and give a few ideas out. So you know and if you're in it also it's very budget dependent right under $100 is one category 100 to $200 is like a million different types of pens like it would be impossible to narrow down you know. but there's good stuff everywhere and I'm glad to help you out so if you have very if you want to get even more specific on those answers where can they find me Myke?

Myke Hurley: You can send tweets to Brad he's at Dowdyism on Twitter but also you can send in questions to us with the hashtag ask TPA and they'll go into a spreadsheet for us to pick later. You can also find us on our show notes is where you can find a bunch of information go to relay.fm slash penaddict slash 310 for today's show notes. Brad is also on Instagram he's penaddict. I am iMike I-M-Y-K-E on all social networks. You can find Brad's amazing products over at knock.co and I want to extend our thanks again to Away for their support of this episode and of course thank you for listening. I'll be back in two weeks. Brad will be back next week with a special guest. Until then say goodbye Brad. Goodbye Brad. Goodbye. You