The Pen Addict 96/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	96
Title:	I’m Attached To Pencils
Release Date:	March 5th, 2014
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 96
Audio File:	Audio Episode 96
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 96
Length:	6666 min <br />1.1 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: Hello there, and welcome to episode 96 of The Pen Addict podcast, a weekly show where we discuss pens, paper, and the analogue tools that we love so dearly. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined as always by a man that's so good at reviewing pens, heal, or racer, all the money from your wallet.

Brad Dowdy: Good job, mate. How are you? Oh, got it out there. That was awesome. That was awesome. You had to, like, write that down to make sure you got it, didn't you?

Myke Hurley: Yep, I wrote it down. I'm reading it. Pens, heal, or racer.

Pencil Guest

Myke Hurley: So, I'm very proud of that one.

Brad Dowdy: So, am I the palette friction of pen reviews? Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, man. Well, what's going on? I'm excited about this episode. Are you excited about this episode?

Myke Hurley: Of course I am. Not just because I get to talk to you, but we also have a guest with us this week.

Brad Dowdy: We sure do.

Myke Hurley: We have Mr. Andy Wellfle. Hi, Andy. Hey, guys. How are you? How are you? I'm great. I'm very excited to be here. So, Andy is a pencil guy. You're a pencil geek. And that's, hence, the pencil-related intro for Brad. So, we're going to be talking about some pencil stuff today. Absolutely.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, Andy and I have been, when did we first approach this? It's been months since you're like, hey, if you ever need someone to talk pencils. I'm like, you know what? We do. And then, you know, things get sideways. And, you know, months and months go by. And we finally, I'm glad we finally got on the same page. And we got this show put together because I think it's going to be great.

Andy Wellfle: Oh, yeah. I think, so you were my, the one who invited me to app.net. And I think it was right after I joined that we started even just talking about a little bit. So, that's a really good place to just kind of go back and forth. And I think I just kind of eventually just begged you and said, hey, I want to come talk about pencils.

Myke Hurley: And then you did, then you did the great trick of bribery where you sent, at least me, you sent me a big bag of pencils. So.

Andy Wellfle: I did. I was going to send one to Brad, but I figured he had a bunch of them and he didn't just need more sitting around.

Brad Dowdy: I do. I actually, you know, normally I keep a little field notes notebook and a pen to just to jot down things while we're doing the show, like show titles and other notes I need to talk about. But I, I swapped that out and I brought in a batch of pencils today that, that we will definitely, definitely be talking about because I have lots of questions. So, we will. And for those who do, who recognize Andy's name or may not recognize his name, you may recognize his blog. It's woodclenched.com. And we'll talk more about that as we, we go in the episode. But just so y'all can, you know, put, put two and two together. Um, that's where Andy writes all his, uh, pencil ramblings. But, um, Myke, we got a little bit of news, a little bit of followup to go through real quick. And, uh, we'll get Andy to chime in here too. So, um, I say let's do it, huh?

Myke Hurley: Sounds like a great idea.

Brad Dowdy: All right. So, I don't know how many times you got this link sent to you this past week, Myke, but I got it several times. Um, Gizmodo ran a very simple post, um, on their tech blog called, what is your favorite pen? And as I'm staring at it right now, it's got 798 comments to this post, which is pretty crazy. It was like a, uh, I don't know, 7,500 word post maybe. And the author's just saying, hey, what's your favorite pen? And then, and then, you know, whoring out some Amazon links, um, as they do. So, um, but if it's interesting in the fact that it wasn't interesting at first, um, I mean, like you pull up the, pull up the article, the first thing you see is boom pilot G2, of course. Um, but then you started getting into some interesting things, you know, and you know, most of all the, the popular in-store pens that we talk about, that I talk about are like the really good off the shelf store pens, the pilot precise V5, Uniball Jetstream, Uniball Vision Elite. All those are real popular. And you scroll down and there's this kind of this theme, hey, these are all the pens off the store shelf. And all of a sudden you get down there, then, well, aside from the different, different, uh, pen island, uh, jokes that, uh, people always enjoy making. Um, there's a few, a few fountain pens jump in there and you start seeing a mood, a mood, a mood, a jelly and again, you know, some Lamy Safari. So it's a very good representation of the general public, the non-penatic public for the most part. Um, for what they feel are the best pens. And actually, you know, it's, it's really good stuff. I mean, it's just, it's all the good stuff off the, off the store shelf. And there's really not a bunch of junk in there, to be honest with you. So it's, uh, it's a pretty good article. If you just want to browse through the comments and, uh, Andy even jumped in there with, uh, with what'd you have? The, the vision.

Andy Wellfle: I had, I had the, uh, I think it was the original vision. And the elite's the one that has the, um, uh, the little extra, like little viewports on the, the end of it. And it's, it's more white than it is silver, right?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. Yeah. Mine was, mine was the original, uh, vision specifically in evergreen ink. I like to write in green ink and all through, all throughout high school and college, I used these. I would just go to Office Depot and just buy like 24 of them at a time and just, just use them up.

Brad Dowdy: So I used to only write in green ink too, like when I was in, in high school, just because I mean, at the time you couldn't get like purple and orange and all this other cool stuff. And, you know, I didn't want to write in black or blue and I think green just seemed to be the thing for me too. So that's pretty cool.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. And I, as far as I knew, um, until I saw this, you could not get the evergreen ink anymore, which is a little bit, a little bit darker and richer. Um, but I just found when I was looking through, I found an Amazon link that does have evergreen ink. So I may have to, uh, erase some of my wallet and, uh, go get that. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I actually haven't, I don't even know that I've seen the evergreen evergreen ones, but I have used the, uh, the regular green. Yeah. So what's your favorite pen, Myke? Did you reply to this thread?

Myke Hurley: No, but I was thinking about it and I've been thinking about it and I haven't, I don't know if this is the response I've given previously, but I do know what it is now. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's the Pelican M215.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. That's awesome.

Myke Hurley: I've got a gold nib in it. So it's, it's like another thing to add. And also, I mean, the model that I have, you can't get anymore, but it's the same as the one that they currently sell. They just look different. Yeah. Um, and I, I replaced mine with a gold nib, but that and Hiroshizuku, um, Fuyugaki, which is the orange ink that I enjoy so much. That pairing, it's just unstoppable. That is a handsome pen. So it's a real beauty. To use. Yeah.

Pen Reviews

Brad Dowdy: And someone actually dropped a Pelican in, in this Gizmodo thread way down towards the bottom. So.

Myke Hurley: Good work.

Brad Dowdy: That is good. That is good. So anyway, yeah, if you got, uh, 10, 15 minutes of spend, you can go scroll through that, um, thread. It's actually, it's actually pretty decent. I mean, it's not, you know, sometimes you think of all these tech bobs, tech blogs get all trolly and spammy, but, um, it's actually pretty decent. There's some good conversation in there. Yeah. So that's pretty cool. So there was a new pen by Retro 51 that we got linked to yesterday. Was that yesterday, Myke? I lose track of what day it is. Regardless, the, um, Retro 51 came out with a new pen called the Retro 51 Tornado Touch. So now what's cool about this pen is that it's basically like the Tornado Mini. Did you ever get that Tornado Mini? We talked about this a long time ago.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I hated it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And you did not like it at all. Um, what was the problem with that? I can't, I'm sorry. I can't even remember. Remember at this point.

Myke Hurley: It was a roller ball, not a ballpoint or the other way around. I still get them mixed up. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: It's probably a ballpoint because that's what this one is. This is a ballpoint.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. It's not a roller ball. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: It's not a roller ball, but I haven't seen the refill. So maybe it can be swapped into a roller ball refill. But, um, this is an interesting pen.

Brad Dowdy: Um, they've decided that the Tornado style should be made into a mini pen, which I'm all for. Then they've decided, well, since we're doing a mini pen, the thing to do now is mini pens. Do you know what?

Myke Hurley: Until now I had not realized this was a mini pen. Yeah. I had paid, I had not paid full attention to the image where they try and prove it's a mini pen by holding it on an iPhone. But I just figured that the iPhone was there to show it was a stylus, less to show the, hmm. Okay. Well, if it's a mini pen, then it's, then I'm not, you're not going to be able to swap out. And that's the, so it goes back to the same problem. So it's, uh, yeah. So it's going to, it's going to have that issue because it's a ballpoint.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. But I mean, I need to see the refill because there's plenty of mini pens that you can swap out the refill on. Yeah. And it's like a, like a gel D1 size refill, but this may not be that.

Myke Hurley: But you know, for me, the retro 51 is about that refill.

Brad Dowdy: I know. I agree completely. But, um, I thought retro 51 for you is about the, uh, mustache and derby.

Myke Hurley: I know. So. The mustache is a little much, I think. So basically they've taken the, the stylus, the conductive stylus, and they've made it to look like a, what you say, a derby or I would say derby hat. But I would also call it a bowler hat. Sure. So it's, it's the kind of like the, the lip with the, the sort of rounded section that goes up onto the top. Yep. So they've done that.

Brad Dowdy: Charlie Chaplin. Is that, did he make that hat famous? Yeah. Is that a Chaplin hat? Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Um, so I can see why they've done that, right? Because they've taken the existing sort of manufacturing process and they've added this, what would appear to be the simplest way to get that on there to me would be to make a piece that fits around the lip of the edge of the, the twisty metal part. Yep. And then you make a, you have to make a finer point because it would be too difficult. I actually kind of like it. I think it's kind of cute having the bowler hat and the mustache. There's something about it. Like I think I can see why they've done this. They've made a stylus. This is the way I would probably do this. They made a stylus point, which looks like a bowler hat. If you've done that, put a mustache on the pen. Like that just seems so logical to me. And the folks over at Retro 51 did contact me and asked if I wanted one to play around with. And I said, yes. And I've asked for the black one because then it kind of looks like he's wearing a tuxedo.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Well, it looks like the clip of the pen looks like his tie.

Myke Hurley: Exactly. So it's like the shirt and the tie. So it makes him look like, in essence, he's wearing a little tuxedo. Yeah. I mean, I want to try it out. I'm a big fan of the products of this company. So I figure it will be worth at least giving it a while. But I feel like it's not going to have the refill that I like, which will be a shame. But I'm willing to give it a go.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And they reached out to me too. And I asked for the black one as well to test out. So maybe this one, we'll do dueling reviews on the podcast once we get them in.

Pen Cases

Myke Hurley: Sounds like a good idea to me.

Brad Dowdy: So thank you, Retro51, for reaching out. And thanks for everyone who sent us this. You know, my initial reaction was, oh, this is ridiculous. But the more I stare at it, I can't wipe the smile off my face.

Myke Hurley: And I think that's the point of it. Yeah. I think it's a really fun, fun little pen. So I received an interesting email yesterday or the day before. There's this little company from Georgia that I don't know if you'd heard of, Brad. And they sent me, they finally, after many months of agonizing weight, sent me a shipping notification for some products that I ordered. Who was that? This is your company, Knock. Oh, no. Knock. Knock. So finally got my shipping notification for all of the cases. So I'm very excited. Cool. Yeah, we're getting there. To have more pen cases than I could ever need. Yeah, you will.

Brad Dowdy: It's a lot of cases.

Myke Hurley: I've been seeing lots of pictures and I'm like, oh, man. I've got so many pen cases.

Brad Dowdy: Hey, you're going to need more than that. So you'll fill those up immediately and you're going to need more. Oh, yeah, of course. I hope they show up soon. I got my Hightower months ago. Yeah. Depending on the levels, we got some went early, some went later. And all the cases and the mass storage levels are at the end just because of how we manufacture them and just the quantities and colors and different styles. I've probably got, for every single person that I haven't shipped yet, I bet I have six of their seven cases, right? But I can't ship until I have that final one. So we're working through that right now. But everything else is shipped except for those two big levels. And I've already started shipping a bunch of those. So people should start seeing them rolling in. And I think everyone's happy that we're finally to that level where a lot of people backed and have been waiting patiently for us. And we appreciate that. And the feedback has been out of this world. So Jeff and I are really pleased with how everything's going. And hopefully we'll get the rest of it out sooner than later. I mean, I know we're cranking on it hard. And I got more to ship out today and tomorrow. So it'll just be a constant stream until we're done with that over the next couple of weeks. So good. I'll be anxious to see what you think when you get yours, Myke.

Myke Hurley: I'll be doing a review for the show.

Brad Dowdy: Awesome.

Myke Hurley: It will take 4,000 episodes.

Brad Dowdy: One case per episode. Yep. Well, you got a good email in your inbox. I got good real mail in my mailbox between Friday and Saturday. I had the most ridiculous mail day ever. I was up actually a Friday. I was in Atlanta working with Jeff making cases. And I came home Friday to the two Twisby's that I had ordered, which I mentioned last show. The Twisby Classic in blue with the 1.1 stub nib. And the Twisby Micarta with an EF nib, which I plan on switching out to something else. I'm just swapping out the nib. So those came in. And it was late Friday night. And I was tired. I'd been working all day up in Atlanta. And I was up at like 5 in the morning to drive up there and do all that stuff. And by the time I got home, I opened up the boxes. And I was like, oh, these are cool. Everything looks good. And I just set them aside to mess with them on Saturday. I did notice on the Twisby Classic. And I got a photo. We'll put the link in the show notes.

Brad Dowdy: They have new packaging. I don't know if all the pins are coming with this new packaging. But it's way better than their last packaging. The last packaging looked cooler. However, this packaging is way more functional. Every time I'd open up a Twisby box from before.

Myke Hurley: Everything falls out.

Brad Dowdy: Everything just flies out. Little holders and everything. It's ridiculous.

Myke Hurley: Those little plastic things. I like them because they look nice in the boxes. But they never go back in the same way. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Brad Dowdy: It's beautiful, but it's not functional. This one's not near as beautiful. It's way more functional. It's got like the little foam cutouts where everything just slots in. And it's in there firmly in a little snap box. So that's cool. So I held off on trying those. I figured I'd have time on Saturday. And then I got like the hugest surprise ever in my mail on Saturday. And we're going to have to talk about this on the next episode because it's an extraordinarily long topic. And we'll tease it. But I got an Edison Menlo that I did not order. And there's pictures of that on Instagram. And we're going to tease that. And we're going to save that story for next week because it's a great story behind that. It was a very cool thing that someone did for me. And you can read the link. If you go to the show notes and read the Instagram notes, you'll get an idea. But anyway, so that was cool. And I also got the Doan Large Utility Notebooks that Chad Doan sent me a pack early to check out. They are awesome. So we'll do a full review of that next week too because I don't want to take too much time for our pencil-loving friend here. Because I want to get into this stuff too. So one other thing that I started to tease on Instagram. I had a big Instagram day because of all this stuff I got in the mail. Another thing I got in the mail is I've left the cat out of the bag, Myke, that episode 100 is going to have a giveaway of epic proportions. I think that's actually a good title right there.

Giveaway

Myke Hurley: Yeah, the giveaway of epic proportions. So anyone that can count realizes that we're a month away now from episode 100 of this show. Some people said it would never be done. But we've got to that point. And me and Brad have been talking about what can we do for that episode. Do we want to do something special or whatever? And then I can't remember which one of us it was. It was probably Brad because he's the brains of the operation.

Myke Hurley: Suggested a giveaway. So we've been talking to a bunch of our friends and I won't say anything more right now. But if you are a listener of this show, you're going to basically want to kill for what we're going to be doing on episode 100. And I think we've worked out a way that we're going to do it too. Yep.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. So we might be teasing it a little bit beforehand, but we're definitely not going to let the cat out of the bag until episode 100. But needless to say, you should definitely be downloading and listening to that show, not just downloading.

Myke Hurley: We're not even kidding either. It's so big to the point that you could give somebody who doesn't own anything all of this stuff and they will be a pen addict just by design of how much stuff we're going to be giving away. I'm really, really excited. Including as well, for me, I'm going to be contributing a very rare item. Yep. So it's going to be exciting.

Andy Wellfle: I assume I don't qualify, Brad, since I won that other giveaway. That's right.

Brad Dowdy: Andy, I totally forgot about that. Gosh, that was only like two weeks ago. I know. I won the Kaweco AL Sport giveaway on my blog with the rare, even though it's the same odds as any other number, as I am prone to say to all the skeptics. It's the rare number one of 600 and something. He was the first post. I mean, the first comment on the post. I hit the random button and I'll be danged if number one didn't come up out of 600 and something entries. Number one. And I even had to show the proof on that one. I remember that.

Myke Hurley: I remember that now. Because I remember you putting the image in the post to be like, see? Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Because I never do that because I really don't care. I mean, if anyone questions.

Andy Wellfle: I was really glad that I didn't just write first on that comment.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. The guy that actually won the groove, he said, oh, now I'm going to be known for that horrible groove pun that I made in my comment. So beware of your comment. If you actually win, I'm going to post it. So, yeah, congratulations. How is your pen doing? It's great.

Andy Wellfle: I have a few other fountain pens. I probably have three or four other ones. And this one, my wife and I have both been using. And I love it because it's a lot like a pen version of a bullet pencil. Because it just kind of slides right up and fits in your pocket. But it's a really nice little machine.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. That's great. That's one of my all-time favorite pens. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: So I have one last piece of follow-up. This was pointed out to me, to note as a correction, by a listener, Matt, by email. So remember I was talking about my Mont Blanc last week and I mentioned it was the Mozart. I then started looking around for it and realized it wasn't a Mozart. And I put the link in the show notes to last week's episode, the model that I have. I'm going to call it the Meisterstruck. I'm going to say it like that. Classique.

Myke Hurley: I know I said that wrong, but it looked interesting enough for me to try and say it in that way. I found that and put it in the notes, but I didn't correct myself on the show. So thank you for Matt for helping clarify that in case people were interested. And I put it back in the show notes again this week. And I'm like 90% sure it's the same pen as the one that I have. Although this did have a composer on the box.

Myke Hurley: So I don't know if it was Mozart or not, but I believe it was because it also came with a CD from that composer. I believe it was Mozart. So I don't really know what the link is.

Brad Dowdy: Interesting. Yeah. Well, Matt, Matt's an interesting guy. He lives in Japan and works at a pen shop. I think he works at Atoya in Japan, which is just like an epically large pen store. And he reaches out from time to time with all kinds of cool stuff. We've talked sailor pens before. So he's an interesting dude from just the perspective that he's coming from with pens and things like that. So that's pretty awesome. Thanks, Matt.

Myke Hurley: Awesome stuff. So shall we talk about Squarespace and then move on into pencil talk?

Brad Dowdy: Let's do it.

Myke Hurley: This episode of the Pen Addict Podcast has been brought to you by the fine folks over at Squarespace. They are the all-in-one platform that makes it easy to create your own website. For a free trial and 10% off, you want to use the offer code TALLYHO3. We're in March now. It's going to get you 10% off. Squarespace are constantly making sure that their platform is up to date with new features, new designs, and more support. They have absolutely stunning, fantastic, beautiful, gorgeous templates that you can get started with. And loads of other options. Tons of other options. Millions of other options. So you can tweak, adjust, and craft your own space online to look exactly as you want. Everything with Squarespace is drag and drop. So as you're adding in content, you can drag and drop them really easily around the page. You can even drag and drop content from your desktop too if that's something that you want to do. So images and stuff, you can drag them right in. Super easy. Squarespace makes sure that your site automatically looks great on any device because every Squarespace site has its own unique mobile design. You can also easily connect Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Pinterest, Instagram, Google, and so many, many more of your favorite web and social services. Squarespace also has their own e-commerce platform, Squarespace Commerce. So you can set up a shop and start selling things, digital and physical goods, in just minutes. And they have all of the tools that you need to make an awesome shopping experience on your site. And Squarespace Commerce now comes with any Squarespace plan.

Myke Hurley: Squarespace is a bit easy to use. But if you need any help, they have over 70 employees that are dedicated to customer support on their customer care team based in New York City. They have super fast email support throughout the day and night. And during the week, they're available for live chat too. As I said earlier, you can try out Squarespace for free. There's no credit card required to do this. And if you decide to purchase, it starts at just $8 a month and includes a domain name if you sign up for a year. Make sure that you get 10% off and support this show by using the offer code Tallyho3. And just want to mention this again. If you are an engineer or a designer, Squarespace are looking to hire 30 new people to their team by March 15th. They're inviting potential candidates, which could be you and their spouses, to be New Yorkers for a weekend completely on them if you go and are accepted for an interview. So if you want to go and hang out with the crew over at Squarespace and see what New York has to offer and why Squarespace could be the place for you, go check out beapartofit.squarespace.com. Thank you so much to Squarespace for their support of 5x5 and the Pen Addict Podcast with Brad Dowdy.

Brad Dowdy: Thank you, Squarespace.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, go ahead, Andy. I want to hear this.

Andy Wellfle: Speaking of Squarespace, I bought a Baron Fig notebook today. They went on sale to the public because I missed the Kickstarter. And they have a Squarespace blog and I was using the commerce checkout and that is a smooth experience. I tweeted earlier, I was like, wow, this is one of the best e-commerce checkout experiences I've had. So I looked in it with Squarespace.

Myke Hurley: It's actually very good. Yeah. It's genuinely very good. Yeah. As Brad knows, we spoke.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I'm ready to turn ours on just to see exactly how smooth it is. But just looking at the setup piece and all of it, you know, on the back end that we haven't turned up live yet. It's just, I mean, it just works, right? I mean, it's just, it's very smooth, very simple, not a lot of fluff. You know, you can go in, make your purchases and get it done. So that's awesome. I look forward to it. All right. So we got the quick note on the pen blog of the week. I wanted to mention this. You would think I would come up with a pencil blog, you know, for our pencil topic today. But I purposely didn't. I did just do a Blystift a couple of weeks ago. It is a great blog. So that's a great pencil related blog. But I wanted to mention the pessimistic pedant, which no one may be familiar with unless you're really paying attention. Because this is a gentleman named Davey, whose blog was called Just Davey B. Or Davey B.'s blog or something. I don't know. It was something very simple. He changed the name of it. So I wanted to point that out because I've always enjoyed reading his posts. Because he doesn't necessarily do reviews. But he has so many pens and inks. And he has this whole database type system that he rotates through. So every time a pen and an ink changes, he posts it on the blog with a picture of the pen and a writing sample of the ink. And it's all – like every post is like this. And he's got – I don't know. The last time he showed his collection picture was around 80 or 90 fountain pens. And he literally rotates through everything. So it's cool to watch this blog and see all the great pens that he has and a lot of the ink samples that he uses. Because the way he sets up his database, he tries not to duplicate inks and pens and things like that. He's got some posts where he talks about how he does it. So check that out because if you're a fan of Just Davey B.'s blog, it has changed the URL. And we will have it in the show notes.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Andy. Yes, sir. How long has Woodclench been around? Just the – you've been – it's been a while, I know. So from writing about pencils, how long has that been around?

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. Well, I actually started with pencil things, which used to be a – actually, they're still around. It's changed hands, I think. But it's a seller of pencils and erasers and things that go with pencils. And I actually bought a sampler pack of pencils from there back in 2007. And I reviewed it and I put it on my personal blog. And then I emailed the proprietor at the time and I was like, hey, this is – these are really cool. Here's my – here's the review I put on my blog. And he was like, hey, this is awesome. Do you want to review products for our blog? I was like, heck yeah. So I started blogging for pencil things for a while. And that went through some transitions. They kind of phased out the blog and he – and that proprietor left. So I decided I just kind of wanted to go independent, if you will, and I started Woodclinched, which, of course, Woodclinched is the name of the process by which you sandwiched like the wood planks together to form a pencil over the core. And that was an Eberhard Faber and the later Faber-Castell, like a trademark they put on the side of the pencil barrel.

Myke Hurley: I think you mean Faber-Castell? Yes, Faber-Castell.

Andy Wellfle: I was just listening to that last night and I have to talk about this at some point so I can talk about Faber-Castell.

Brad Dowdy: I got emails that said, hey, you know what? I say it the same way. Faber-Castell, suck it.

Brad Dowdy: No, I'm just kidding.

Andy Wellfle: So yeah, I started Woodclinched. And from there, I just kind of kept going. I've been through some dry periods, changing jobs and doing stuff where I just couldn't get into it. But lately, I've been trying to keep pretty regular on it. And I actually, that led me to meeting Charles Berelsheimer, who owns pencils.com. And I worked there for a little bit, kind of at the beginning when they started selling the Palomino Blackwings, which we'll talk about later. But that was a really fun experience. And Charles is a really great guy. But I'm not there anymore, but I'm still doing Woodclinched.

Myke Hurley: Do you do anything else professionally of pencils in the moment or have you moved on to a different field?

Andy Wellfle: I work at a web development company, so I do a lot of writing and content strategy and sketching things out a lot. So I use pencils professionally, but I don't do anything for pay involving pencils specifically.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah.

Woodcase Pencils

Brad Dowdy: So now comes the big philosophical question that I always get about fountain pens or really a lot of pens. Why woodcase pencils?

Andy Wellfle: Well, that's interesting. I was trying to think about that. And I have kind of two answers to that. I have a philosophical answer and I have a practical answer. And I actually wrote a guest post on the website called The Pen Company that was kind of asking that same question. So probably like a lot of people, people use fountain pens as sort of a tribute to the old days, to technologies gone by, to people who shave with a straight razor, drive a manual transmission car, something like that. I really like it because it's kind of a pure expression of writing. Pencils are interesting, specifically woodcase pencils, because they really are not that much different than like taking a charred stick and writing on the side of like a cave wall, like a caveman might do. Obviously, it's been kind of refined and made more efficient and made better to hold. But it's really, that's kind of the simplest way you can put a mark down somewhere. So that's kind of my philosophical answer. I really like that it's just a very basic form of writing. It's really, it's really pure.

Andy Wellfle: So the practical answer is because the way that I generally write longhand nowadays is I make lists, I make scribbles, I make little notes to myself, I might erase something and put it back. And really, pencils are just better for that. Obviously, with a pen, you can, you know, you can cross something out and they have those really, I don't know how you guys feel about those PaperMate erasable pens, but I'm, I'm not a fan. Yeah, they're pretty poor. Yeah. And in fact, I think PaperMate even came out with, what was it called? It was like an ink pencil or something like that.

Brad Dowdy: Sharpie did it and it was one of the worst. Yeah, I remember that. It was one of the worst products in the past decade.

Andy Wellfle: Liquid pencil, that's what it was called, yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, the Sharpie liquid pencil.

Andy Wellfle: So, so practically, I just kind of realized that after going into a job where I, you know, where I was using computer to do most of my writing, most of the writing that I did longhand was really well suited for a pencil. So, and I mean, I've been using pencils since I was a kid. My mom was a kindergarten teacher, so we had a lot of, you know, art supplies and pencils laying around the house. And I had those, I don't know if you guys remember Yikes pencils or not. No. Those were made by the barrel company back in the 90s and they were like brightly colored. They had like little doodles. I don't know if they made them with the UK, Myke, but they were, they were really cool. I actually wrote a post about that. What did you say they were called? Yikes.

Myke Hurley: Oh my word, I love those things.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah, yeah. They're, it's, it's interesting because I, I wrote about that a couple of years ago and, uh, I guess a lot of people our age, uh, kind of late twenties, early thirties started searching for them, uh, and then hit my blog. So now when you type in Yikes pencils, that's like, I come up right at the top. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: That's how I just found this article is by. They used to have erasers that looked kind of like the, uh. Oh, those derby hats. Yeah. The little derby hats.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. Yep. I have a picture one in there like that. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: So they had, they had a fountain pen as well. Um, yeah. They made a fountain pen that I adored as a kid. And now I need to try and find it.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. If you can, uh, find a picture of that or something, send it to me. I would be really interested in trying to find one of those.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I'll see what I can do. So anyhow. This is it. The Yikes fountain pen of all knowledge. That's what, that was the name of the product.

Brad Dowdy: The Yikes fountain pen of all knowledge.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. That's awesome. That was what it was called. I'm looking at it.

Andy Wellfle: I know. Oh man, it's on eBay. I need. I wonder. Oh man, I need one of these. Oh wow. Look at that thing. I wonder if this is just a UK thing. Cause I do not remember anything about this.

Andy Wellfle: Huh. Anyhow. Yeah. There you go. Darn it. We're talking about pens when I'm supposed to be talking about pencils. So.

Brad Dowdy: It's fact.

Andy Wellfle: Exactly. So I, I, I'm a, I, I've liked pencils a lot in the past, but really only when I kind of graduated college and starting, started just writing longhand to make notes and little, little, you know, temporary things. Uh, I really, you know, I really found kind of really got back into pencils. And as I'm sure we'll talk about, there's a huge, huge difference between like a nice pencil and, you know, those, those things you get from office Depot for, you know, a dollar for a 24 pack or something.

Brad Dowdy: Right. And I think that's probably what, you know, anyone who's not, you know, deep into it like yourself or, or, you know, or is not into this pen world where they're seeing some of this crossover and some of these really, you know, super nice pencils and things that are available these days, you know, like y'all talking about growing up with the, the, the Yikes pencils. I grew up, it was either, you know, you had your basic number two that you had to have for your tests. And the only other pencils that I used were when like the, um, when the football season started and I got the pack of all the team pencils. That was like the coolest thing ever. Yeah. That's just like the super, super El Cheapo pencils. But nowadays, I mean, it's buying a nice pencil. It's like, it's almost like buying a fine wine. There's so many characteristics that are involved in each pencil from the, you know, the wood and the lead hardness and the shape and the barrel design and, and, and the other features. So talk, talk about like, talk about like what makes for a good quality pencil. And we're not talking about, like you said, then, you know, the number two, you know, that you can just go grab off the Office Depot shelf. Like what is, what's, what's so special about the more specialty pencils?

Andy Wellfle: Sure. Well, um, it's funny you say you compared it to a fine wine because, uh, one of the, like, like with wine, you know, one of the first things you do to do that is you, you sniff it and you kind of see what the scent is like. Um, a really nice pencil is probably made out of incense cedar, um, California incense cedar, it's called. And, uh, it smells really good. Um, it smells like those, if you have like those, those coat hangers that you put in your closet for your suit, uh, that just kind of makes everything smell like cedar. Uh, if you, if you, yeah, if you sniff your pencil, uh, it should be like that. You might look a little weird. Yeah. I'm sniffing, I'm sniffing my pencils right now. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, you can't, you can't quite get high off it like you would sniffing a Sharpie. But, uh, uh, Myke, I, I did, I sent you a care package of some of those pencils. I don't know if you had a chance to use any of them or not.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I've used a few.

Andy Wellfle: What did you, what did you notice about maybe some of the differences between those and some of the ones you might buy from a big box store?

Myke Hurley: So I tell you the ones that I've used because I've got them here. I've got four. So the, uh, Palomino Black Queen 602. Mm-hmm. The Helix Oxford Premium Grade.

Andy Wellfle: Mm-hmm.

Myke Hurley: The California Republic Golden Bear. And the... The triangular one? Yeah, the triangular one. Mm-hmm. And the general's semi-hex. They're the four that I used. And I think the interesting thing that I found, especially in the Blackwing and the, the Golden Bear, was how soft they felt and smooth to use. And that was maybe kind of a new experience where like one like the Oxford Premium Grade feels more like the pencil I used in school.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: And it was, I found that was the kind of the most interesting thing of the four that I used. Because I kind of just picked a selection of ones that looked interesting to me and sharpened them, which was a strange experience. Did you have a sharpener? Yeah. I have a sharpener that I got in my ArtSnack subscription, which I was very lucky that I had. I was like, huh. I don't know if I have a pencil sharpener. But I did. And it was, it transported me back to being in school because of the smell. Oh, yeah. The smell of sharpening a pencil. And so I just, I just don't, I just can't imagine using pencils every day. Like it's just, and it's kind of just like, you know, how I'm sure there are so many people that are like, I can't even imagine thinking about any sort of pen the way you think about pens, Myke. You're insane. But there's just, I don't know. There's just something about pencils where it's like, these are perfectly nice, but they feel to me like a tool for a specific job.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. And they're really, I mean, one of the things I really like about them, you know, just even, even a really good quality pencil, like the Blackwing, which, which you were talking about, you know, they're, they're so inexpensive. So you have to think of it more like, let's say like the fountain pen cartridge rather than the actual fountain pen. It's just all kind of, you know, built right in there. I guess like a, like a disposable pen, like a really nice disposable pen or something.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They are the, they are the, the refill.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. You can get like, you know, like pencil holders or something like that that has a really nice barrel that you can stick, stick lead into or like a really nice mechanical pencil. But yeah, the wood pencils definitely are kind of something you have to think about as a, like disposable, as a commodity. Because like, you know, a nice fountain pen, I have a really nice Estabrook from the thirties. And, you know, if I take good care of that, that can, that can last me another 70 years or so. So a pencil, if I keep on using it, no matter how good a care I take of it, you know, that thing's going to wear out eventually. So it's, it's definitely kind of, kind of esoteric. Like, it's definitely not going to be there all of my life, which is, which is one of the, another, I guess, a philosophical reason why I like it. But, but yeah. And, and there's just so many different colors and shapes. You know, there's round ones, there's triangular ones, which I really like. There's, there's hexagonal ones. A lot of them have like a really nice, like dark lacquer on it. For some reason, America kind of got like a, like a weird reputation where most of our pencils are yellow. Most of the time around the world, that's not the case. Like, you know, if you look at all the, the Faber-Castle pencils, Statler pencils, and a lot of the ones from the UK, they're, they're lots of different bright colors. So I think it's really visually appealing too.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I think the, the last thing I want to use is a yellow pencil these days and, and trying to find out. Because I don't, I don't know that, I don't know that there's a yellow pencil in, in my house other than, you know, maybe in the kid's backpack from school. And I'm not even sure that they have any, but. Yeah. I think you made a good point about using the pencils and that's, you know, it's not going to last you a lifetime. You know, it's going, it's made to be used. You're going to go through it and it's, you know, more of a, it's a, you know, quality disposable writing instrument. And for, you know, that kind of hits one of the points that I have with why maybe I don't use pencils so much is the lack of portability. Like I didn't from woodcase pencils. I don't feel like good just throwing them in my backpack just because I'm weird that way. Well, but I shouldn't probably think of it that way. I should probably just do it because you know what I have, you know, I just bought a dozen. I got 11 more sitting over there and, you know, use the pencil and, and go for it.

Andy Wellfle: Well, you can buy, um, I know JetPens sells one, um, a little cap to put on the end of it. I mean, I mean, I agree. I usually, you know, keep some pencils in my home desk, keep some pencils in my work desk. Uh, and I don't transport them a lot because you know, those points, I mean, if you have a good sharpener, those points are sharp. Um, and then also you, it can also, you know, get the inside of your bag dirty or whatever. Um, but yeah, you can get a cap for them if you want. Um, and then there's always something like bullet pencils, which we hopefully can talk about a little bit later where you can just kind of, you know, cap it and then put it in your pocket. Okay.

Pencil Characteristics

Brad Dowdy: So what, you know, specifically talking now about some of your favorite pencils, like what are the characteristics like of the wood, of the lead, you know, what is, is making a good pencil for Andy?

Andy Wellfle: Hmm. Um, I like the ones, so we should probably touch, uh, briefly touch on the hardness scale of pencils to kind of lead into that. So I, um, you know, the, the pencil scale, um, a lot of people are familiar with like number two pencils. Um, you know, there's also, you know, number three pencils, there's number two and a half, there's number one pencils. Um, but that is the, the U S system of scaling. Um, the, the nicer pencils use the European grade. Um, and you know, pencils are made from a combination of graphite and, uh, wax. And, you know, the, the, the difference in pencils, uh, in pencil hardness is, you know, there may be more wax in a softer pencil. There may be more graphite in a harder pencil. And they, um, they measure them in, um, H and B grades. So H for hardness, B for blackness. Uh, so going down the spectrum, you go H, two H, three H, four H, five H. And these pencils are harder. There's more graphite, uh, but they're also lighter. Um, I'm, don't worry. I'm actually all leading up to something. Um, the, the, uh, softer you go, uh, you go B, two B, three B, four B all the way up to like, you know, eight B or nine B, uh, that's super soft and smooth, but it's also super black. That's what the B stands for black. Um, so most, most writers, uh, and I don't do a lot of sketching and drawing with my pencils. I do a lot of writing. Uh, most writers like something around the HB range. That's like perfectly balanced right in the middle. And most of the pencils that you find will be that, uh, a number two pencil is an HB pencil is the same thing. Um, and I generally tend to prefer something between an HB and let's say like a two B, um, something that's, uh, just really balanced and something that's a little bit softer and blacker just cause I don't press down super hard. Um, uh, so I really like the, um, as, as Myke very astutely pointed out, um, the Palomino Blackwing and the, uh, the Golden Bear are, um, a little bit darker in that line. Uh, I really like those. Those are actually, uh, when I was coming up with my top five favorite pencils, those are my two favorites. So Myke, uh, I think we're on the same page.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. Um, so I, I, I like those a lot. Uh, the Blackwing is very smooth and very dark. And of course, like the secret recipe, uh, a really good pencil will, will be plenty dark while still being, you know, hard. So you don't have to keep sharpening it. You're not breaking the point. Um, so I think they do a really good job of kind of hitting that. So that's, that's the kind of pencil I really like. I like, uh, triangular pencils a lot. Um, there's not a lot of really good ones on the market anymore. Uh, Rhodia, uh, which, you know, has the Exoclair notepad or the, the notepads. Uh, they, they have a branded pencil that's, that's triangular and really nice. Um, and I think, Brad, probably that, uh, Grip 2001 you were talking about last week. That's probably, that's triangular, right? Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And actually, I thought it was a little bit, uh, smaller in diameter, like compared to like the 60, Blackwing 602. And I actually liked the little bit wider diameter of the, of the Blackwing. I felt like, I would think I would like a triangular pencil, but a little bit larger, uh, barrel diameter. Um, than the, than the 2001.

Andy Wellfle: So, so actually on my list is something that's a really good compromise for that. It's made by Ticonderoga, which is, you know, your classic, classic pencil that you can find in a store. Uh, check out the Triconderoga. Mm-hmm. It's, uh, it's triangular and it's larger. Um, in fact, it's quite a bit larger than a Blackwing, but it's, uh, and it has like a really soft kind of rubbery grip on it. Okay. Um, it's, parts, parts of it aren't great quality, like the ferrule, which is the, I actually have no idea if I say that right. It's the, uh, metal part that attaches the eraser to the pencil. Uh, that comes off a lot. I actually had a conversation with the, uh, Ticonderoga, uh, Twitter account about that. But, um, yeah, that, that comes off a lot, but the pencil is really nice and it is kind of a pain to sharpen though, because it's hard to find a sharpener you can fit it into.

Pencil Qualities

Brad Dowdy: That's true.

Andy Wellfle: I didn't consider that. But yeah, those, those are kind of the qualities of my favorite pencils.

Brad Dowdy: So is there, is there a, such a thing as a smoothness grade or is that incorporated into the lead hardness, darkness grades? Because, you know, notice that some pens or pencils are smoother and a lot have more, a more gritty feedback. Is that just the manufacturer and, you know, the, the types of materials that they're using is just kind of a manufacturer specific or is there any, is there anything to, to that?

Andy Wellfle: Yeah, that's really. And even those pencil grids I was talking about are not, none of that is regulated. Uh, everything's just kind of like, you know, people just kind of take a guess and just check the formula. But, but mostly that ties into, um, ties into that hardness scale. Um, if it's, if it's smoother, generally it's probably softer. Um, whereas if it's grittier, kind of toothier is the word that I often use. Um, uh, that one, that one is generally going to be a little bit harder, but it really depends on the manufacturer. I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And trying, trying some of these pencils, like when the black wing came out, you know, I just, you know, I mean, I had to try it just because I'd heard so much about it. And I'd never realized that a pencil could be so smooth. Yeah. I was like, Whoa, this is kind of eyeopening a little bit from someone who really almost zero experience with pencils, you know, just using, you know, whatever, whatever you can find and pick up and, um, trying something a little bit nicer like that was, it's like, wow, these are different in a good way.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. And some of that, it could also be like, if some, if something's a little bit grittier, sometimes that even has to do with how well it's sandwiched within the wood, the, um, the lead, like if it's like super well put in there, I won't kind of vibrate and shake around a lot while you're drawing, dragging it across the paper. Oh, so, you know, that can often, you know, play a little bit role in that too. Okay. That makes sense.

Brad Dowdy: So that you kind of, you alluded to it just a second ago, some of your favorites, let's talk, let's talk about your favorites. Like, you know, give me your, like you said, maybe you have a top five, tell me, tell me what they are and why, and then, and why, you know, one is better than the other one you prefer more than another one.

Pencil Brands

Andy Wellfle: Sure. Well, I, I think my top favorite is, and I am just listing the pencils that are available now. Uh, there's a lot of pencils that aren't, that aren't made that, that I like, but, um, the, uh, that's a whole nother show. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Vintage pencils could take up. So, um, uh, the, uh, the Palomino golden bear, um, the one that I sent you, Myke is the triangular one. And unfortunately that's not made anymore. Uh, but the golden bear has been wrapped under the Palomino line by pencils.com. It's kind of confusing the way that branding works, but I like that because it is good, great quality for the price you pay. You pay like two 50 for a dozen and they're really good quality. It's like a little bit better than a, like a Dixon Ticonderoga, which often is kind of the standard by which I list things. So I think that's my favorite. Uh, and there's a really beautiful blue color on them too. Um, I like the Palomino black wing 602 a lot, the newly released or the new, the new black wings that came out. Um, and it, that is the one that is the hardest of the black wings. Uh, there's also a black wing classic and a black wing pearl, uh, both of which are a lot softer. Uh, but this one is kind of the best writing pencil and it looks like the original ever hard favor black wings, which I really like. And that's a little bit salty. That's, that's 20 bucks a dozen. Um, I like the general semi hex. Um, that's made by the general pencil company, which is just one of a couple pencils still manufactured in the U S. Um, that's a really good classic yellow pencil. Um, it writes really well at the semi hex means that it, you know, it's hexagonal, but the, the ends are, the corners around it a little bit. So it's a little bit more comfortable. Um, I actually kind of liked the Helix Oxford, uh, which Myke was using. Uh, that's a British pencil. Um, actually I don't know if it's manufactured in the UK, but I know the company's based out of the UK. Um, it's, uh, it has Helix.

Myke Hurley: Helix is what we use in schools.

Andy Wellfle: Helix. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like it's a very like basic pencily pencil. It's not necessarily for drawing.

Myke Hurley: All school supplies. Like Helix are just everywhere for school supplies. Well, at least they were when I was growing up. I had like a Helix protractor and like, and it's not just you buy them for schools. Like they're in schools. Like they're, they're supplied directly to schools as well. That's cool. Yeah. So it's a standard, it's a very sort of standard kit.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Um, I really liked the pink wood on it. I actually, I don't know what kind of wood that is, but it's a, it has kind of a pinkish hue and it is a little bit toothier and, uh, and grittier, but I, you know, sometimes, sometimes I like that. Sometimes I think that, you know, depending on the paper I'm using, that feels good.

Myke Hurley: So that, that pink wood again is normal for me to see as a pencil. But I look at that and that's a pencil.

Andy Wellfle: That's cool. Yeah. I, I learned about them when I worked at, uh, pencil things. They sent me, they sent me a couple of them and, uh, I didn't realize they had a whole line of just school supplies. That's cool. Yeah. And then, uh, the last one on my list is that Triconderoga, which I talked about. Um, that's, uh, just a nice big grip pencil and it, it, it looks very distinctive too.

Brad Dowdy: So let's talk, let's talk about the Blackwing specifically for a second. So I think the, the Blackwing as a product on its own right now, I think is, it kind of stands on its own. There's a, it's a Blackwing pencil and it's high quality and it's, you know, great performance and it looks great, but there's this whole, I wrote in the show notes. Yeah. I wrote this whole mythology around it and it reminds me of like the Moleskine marketing. Like, it's almost like, it's almost like too good to be true type, this mythos that has been created and lifted this brand, um, just by this whole true or not true in, in, in probably both Blackwing's and Moleskine's cases, um, stories behind it. And, and, and what, what's your take just from the, not the current pencil in like its current form. I think it, I think it stands on its own, but just like the history of the name and is like, is that a big deal for, um, it seems like it causes a lot of consternation in the, in the pencil community.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. It's, it's interesting cause it, it does get kind of political about that. Um, so, so the Blackwing, the, uh, Palomino Blackwing, I should say is kind of a, a relaunch, a revamp by pencils.com, uh, of, uh, by California Cedar who runs pencils.com of the, uh, Eberhard Faber Blackwing, uh, which was a pencil that was started to make it made in the thirties, uh, and when it was being manufactured all the way through to the nineties. Um, and it's really distinctive. It has a, um, kind of a rectangular, uh, ferrule and a rectangular eraser on it that's being held in by a clip. So you can actually pull the eraser out a little bit and kind of clip it back. So you, you have a really great eraser. So that original pencil, um, got kind of famous just because it, it's was, it was mentioned in like memoirs by Stephen Sondheim. He was a big, big, big user of this pencil. Um, it's, it's attributed to, uh, to being used by a lot of authors and celebrities and some of them are documented and some of them are a little bit more sketchily so. Um, but they, they went out of business kind of suddenly in 1998. Uh, the machine that broke, that made the ferrule broke, uh, is the, uh, the reason that they gave for not manufacturing these anymore. So, uh, all of a sudden the price, people would sell them on eBay. People would hoard them and sell them on eBay for like, like literally $40 a pencil. It was really, really salty. Um, I actually, when I started pencil blogging and collecting, I bought a few of them just because I, I had to know. Um, and I wrote a review on my blog. Um, it's called the realist review of the black wing. And I mean, I, I mentioned that it was, it was indeed a really good pencil, but it was not worth $40. It was just, you know, nothing, no wooden pencil is worth $40 unless, you know, unless it's of significance, you know, to you or, you know, if, if it's worth it to you, then, then sure. Um, but I, I know back in, uh, in 2010 or 11, I can't actually remember, which is, which is pretty bad. Um, California Cedar, uh, basically, oh, uh, Eberhard Faber, which was later bought by Faber Castell or merged with them. Um, they let the trademark lapse, the black wing, the black wing trademark, um, and, uh, pencils.com picked it up, um, and kind of started, started using that and manufactured, um, their own black wing. It's the Palomino black wing, um, which Palomino is the brand of a, uh, um, of a, uh, another pencil that they make. That's really good. Um, so anyhow, it's, they picked it back up. Uh, it went out to, uh, it was the classic. They, they released it. Everybody loved it. It's a big deal. Uh, boing, boing, like really mainstream, like kind of internet culture blogs picked it up. Um, and I know, uh, Mark Fraunfelder, there's a big fan. So people, yeah, people love it. Um, it's, and it was very, very soft. Um, the, they released the black wing 602, which looks almost identical to the original. Uh, the first black wing that pencils.com released, uh, changed the book. They changed out the look a little bit. Uh, the 602 was released. It was more for writers than for sketchers, um, they found, uh, or drawers. And, um, then after that, they kind of completed that out with the black wing pearl, uh, which is a white pencil and it's somewhere kind of in the middle. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I've used the 602 and the pearl. I, I definitely like the 602 just, uh, from a writing experience.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. And, and I mean, take it as you will. It's a, it's a really good pencil independent of the kind of the marketing behind it. Uh, right.

Brad Dowdy: That's what I was trying to separate. It's, it's, it's, there is actual substance behind.

Andy Wellfle: Absolutely. And I, I know, I mean, it's, it's made in pretty small batches in Japan. Uh, I think that's why, um, why it costs a little, uh, like quite a bit more than other pencils. But if you are somebody who is serious about using wooden pencils and you really want some cool ones and you want some that are really just definitely conversation starters, uh, a Palomino black wings, a really good one to buy. I, um, I gave a few of mine to a friend who runs a winery and, uh, he ended up buying a bunch more and, uh, they, they got stolen off the desk like crazy. People just, just love those and would take them home. So yeah.

Brad Dowdy: From a writing experience.

Sharpeners

Brad Dowdy: How do you sharpen these things? What's the best way I'm having a challenge with that right now. And how do I want to, to, to have the best writing experience?

Andy Wellfle: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Tell, tell me, you don't have to go crazy on it, but like, what do you, what do people look for in a sharpers? Cause I, I've tried some that have come recommended like the, um, I think it's actually the, the Palomino, like the two, I don't, gosh, I don't know what the name of it is. I didn't bring it, but it's got the two, it's got the long point and the short point. Yeah. And I can't even use that. I, I, I'm doing something wrong or something, but I have a hard time with sharpeners.

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. It's hard. It's a, that is a long point sharpener. So you get a really long, really sharp point with that. And it is a little bit difficult to do. You have to put, you know, you have to sharp, basically you sharpen the wood with one of them and then you sharpen the point with the other, with the other hole. I actually, when I worked at pencils.com, I, I created a video about how to use it properly. Um, and I'll, I'll send you the link for that for your show notes, but, um, it's, that's, that's a good one. Um, I actually, most every day I use, uh, what's called the classroom friendly pencil sharpener. Uh, it's a $20 sharpener. Um, it's a, it's, it's not, I don't think it was a Kickstarter, but it's just an independent guy who made them. Um, it gives you a really, really nice razor sharp tip. Um, I think Brad, did, did you, that's the one I, that's the one I ended up buying. Yeah. I think I remember an Instagram that you posted of just that, that point that you got on the end of it. Um, the thing I don't like about it is that it leaves, uh, tooth marks from the grip on your pencil. And so it kind of, it kind of looks like you've been chewing it, but at work I actually take a, a half of a post-it note and I wrap it around the pencil where it goes into the sharpener. So the grip actually grips down on the paper rather than the pencil itself. And that protects it a lot more. Okay. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: It does leave like little teeth marks on there on some of the pencils. You can't really see it, but on some of them it does bother me. Yeah. And people will be like, Oh, are you chewing on your pencils?

Andy Wellfle: I'm like, no, I would never do that.

Brad Dowdy: Do you have like a, do you have like an on the go hand sharpener that you prefer?

Andy Wellfle: Yeah. I like the, um, just like a plain old, uh, Kume. Um, I, and I don't know if it's Kume or if it's come, it's K-U-M. Um, I say Kume. Um, they, they're kind of the standard in, in pencils. And I just, I just have a little one that's, um, that's in something called an, uh, Oh, what is it called? And an ellipsis and ellipse. Um, it's basically just like a little, uh, kind of oval football shaped, uh, sharpener that I just throw in my bag and that gives me like a medium tip. It's pretty nice. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't do a whole lot of sharpening while I'm writing. Um, cause I don't press super hard. Um, but I do, you know, after I, you know, use it, I'll polish it up and sharpen a lot more.

Erasers

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Now, now what about erasers? Do you use the, the, for lack of a better term, the built-in eraser or do you carry a separate erasers with you?

Andy Wellfle: Um, I, I generally use the built-in one. If I'm using one, there's, you can, you know, a lot of people like untipped pencils or I mean, I guess it's called a tip pencil, but not tipped with an eraser. Um, a lot of people like those and they like to carry their own sharpeners, but I generally, you know, just use the one that's built in. Um, I actually have one that JetPen sent me to review that I need to even open and try out, but it's a, uh, basically like a plastic eraser. Um, it's, it's made of like a latex and it's supposed to erase much more smoothly. Um, I think on my blog, I did a review, uh, the great eraser race where I just reviewed a bunch of erasers next to each other. And, uh, I like those latex plasticky ones better than the rubber ones generally.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I think even though I'm trying to use pencils more, I still find myself scratching out like I do with a pen or something. I end up not, not using any eraser at all. I'll just scratch it out, which is like, well, that's dumb. It's kind of built to, built to actually be erased. So one more thing I want to, I want to talk about. Were you going to say something?

Andy Wellfle: Oh no. Uh, I was just going to say, uh, they have those erasers that it's like needable. They're like little pieces of clay. Oh yeah. And I sometimes like to use those, but just because I like to fidget with things.

Brad Dowdy: It's like silly. I know. Yeah. I remember growing up, my grandfather was an artist growing up and those things were everywhere. I love those things. So one more thing I want to, I want to talk about and it's because it's some, it's a design that I love so much and I just can't get into using it, but it's the bullet pencils. And you and I have talked about this and you know, like I have the, um, the Midori bullet pencil, like the copper, I guess the brass bullet pencil. Yeah. And it's one of the coolest, most beautiful designs ever in my opinion, pen, pencil regardless. But I mean, this is a real historic design too. I mean, this is what, you know, people were using back in the, God, early 1900s. I don't know if it goes back further than that. Just, you know.

Andy Wellfle: 1890s, I think it started off. They actually like literally made pencils out of bullet casings, uh, during some, uh, some wars. It's the South African wars that, uh, the UK was involved in, uh, England. And, uh, uh, eventually, uh, Princess Mary would hand out, uh, these pens as gifts for soldiers, um, which was super interesting. Uh, there's a blog that has some pictures of this that are, they're really neat. Um, they were kind of repurposed in the like forties, thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, um, as advertising pencils. Uh, if you own a business, a lot with agriculture and with, uh, with kind of farm stuff, if you had a business, you'd, you know, print your logo on your phone number, the side of it, and you give it to farmers, uh, and they'll use it out in the fields where they use their, you know, their field notebooks, the original field notebooks. Yep. Um, so, so those kind of disappeared. Like there's so many super cool ones out there on eBay. Um, I like to get some of the ones that have like, um, uh, like souvenir plate, souvenirs from places, uh, San Francisco, uh, you know, Orlando, Florida, stuff like that. Um, and, and you cannot find them anymore. They just, they just don't make them anymore. Um, the, with one or two exceptions, uh, that Midori one you're talking about is being made. And, and I actually am holding one right now. I carry it in my pocket all the time and I love it. It's, it's great. I'm really glad that they, that I got one of these. And then do you use the stock, the stock pencil refills for that? Um, so, so far I just got it probably a month ago and I have not gone through that stock yet. Um, I'm told, uh, a friend of mine, a fellow pencil blogger says that, uh, not too many other pencils will fit into that kind of casing there. Um, so I haven't, I haven't tried it yet, but, uh, I know, I mean, it's a really good wood pencil just the way it is from a Dori. So I may even just go to jet pens and get, get a refill pack. Cool. Yeah. It's a, it's a good pencil. Yeah. They're, they're hard to find and it's definitely a collector's item. If you go on eBay and find a bullet pencil, um, or if you flea market or antique or something like that, you can, you can probably, chances are they'll have a couple of these at least. Awesome.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Well, Andy, this has been a spectacular episode. It's been a good learning experience for me. Um, and I know Myke, Myke as well with, uh, the pencils you sent him and, uh, yeah, I, I'm, I'm attached to pencils and I have to find a way I'm attached to like, you know, I mean, it's, um, just like fountain pens, it's a classic writing experience. Yeah. And there's so many options out there and, you know, trying to go through, you know, finding out, you know, what's good for me. And I, I'm really starting to force myself, which isn't much of a force. I'm enjoying it to, to use more woodcase pencils and, and, you know, reading your blog and all the other pencil blogs out there.

Andy Wellfle: There's a good number of them.

Brad Dowdy: And it's been, it's, it's like when I started, uh, with pens trying to discover, you know, about Japanese gel ink pens, I mean, there's this whole world out there that's just really, really deep past the, uh, the very stuff at the top stuff at the surface. So I, I appreciate you coming on and it's, uh, it was awesome to have you. And I think we'll have to have you back again to, uh, to answer more of my silly questions about pencils.

Andy Wellfle: I would love that. I love talking about pencils as my, my friends and coworkers will attest. Yes.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. Yes. Yes.

Myke Hurley: I think we can all get that. I'm happy to, to ordain you as the official pencil correspondent of the pen addict podcast now. Yes. Yes. Do I get, do I get a pin or something? Some sort of badge or some description. Yeah. We'll make badges.

Myke Hurley: All right. Well, you got anything else, Myke? That's it for me. Andy, where can people find you? Where can they keep in touch with you?

Andy Wellfle: Um, they can go to woodclinch.com. That's W O O D C L I N C H E D.com. Um, or I'm on Twitter. Um, somebody else actually has the woodclinch handle, which I'm, I can't get ahold of them to try to get it back from them. But, uh, I, I'm at, uh, a wealthley that's a W E L F L E on Twitter.

Myke Hurley: Awesome. Brad, you can find his stuff over at pen addict.com. And he's also at dowdyism on Twitter. I am. I Myke, I am Y K E. So, uh, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the pen addict. If you want to find the show notes for this episode of which there are many, you can go to five by five dot TV slash pen addict slash 96 and me and Brad will be back next week. Thanks again to Andy for joining us until next time. Say goodbye, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Goodbye, Brad.