The Pen Addict 735/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	735
Title:	Dallas, as You Know, Is Based in Texas
Release Date:	September 24th, 2026
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 735
Audio File:	Audio Episode 735
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 735
Length:	5454 min <br />0.9 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From Relay, this is The Pen Addict, episode 735. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley. I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi, Brad. Hi, Myke Hurley. How are you? I'm good, man. How are you?

Brad Dowdy: I'm good. I'm going to get to say hi to you next week. I know. In person. I mean, not online, but in person.

Myke Hurley: Just going to mention this right up top. So next week, Brad has a guest.

Guest Appearance

Myke Hurley: Questionable guest. Brad has somebody else on the show. Are they a guest? Cannot be none. Who can say? Because we will be together in Memphis next Thursday, actually doing final rehearsal for the podcast-a-thon, which is going to be on Friday, October 2nd.

Brad Dowdy: That's only like a week away. Yes. It's kind of crazy.

Myke Hurley: Because this year, September continues to October. I like it. So it's basically September for like six weeks now or something. The podcast-a-thon is going to be the finale of the campaign this year. This is what we're doing. We're putting it right at the end of our St. Jude fundraiser this year. We will be streaming live from 12 p.m. U.S. Eastern Time to 12 a.m. U.S. Eastern Time on the Relay YouTube channel. I will put a link in the show notes to the YouTube link. So you can go there now and you can like hit the little Remind Me button. And then YouTube will, it's called Notify Me. And then YouTube will do exactly that. It will notify you when we go live. And you can come and hang out with us. And then that will also be, if you can't watch live for any reason, you want to catch up on it later, that will be the permanent link. This is why I like doing this on YouTube rather than on Twitch because it just lives there forever and it's nice and easy. Oh, for sure.

Myke Hurley: There's this funny thing of like we are constrained. I think it's still the case. They may have changed it, that we can only stream for 12 hours because that's YouTube's limit. But also, I wouldn't want to go a minute longer. Yeah. More than enough.

Brad Dowdy: I do, I know that used to be the case on Twitch. There was a 12 hour limit. I'm not 100% about it.

Myke Hurley: YouTube was definitely, and the problem with YouTube was if you went over that 12 hours, they just wouldn't save the video anymore. Very strange thing to do. They may have changed it, but it doesn't matter because I don't think we will ever go longer than 12. Yeah. We learned that is actually the limit for everybody. And yeah, we're talking about this because we're raising money for St. Jude all throughout the month of September. And we're asking you to join with us in supporting St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in recognition of and in support of Childhood Cancer Awareness Month because we are raising money to not support, actually to do the exact opposite to cancer. We are trying to destroy it. That is what we're all working together for. But for St. Jude, it's not just about treating the children with cancer when they have cancer. They also want to look after them past that. Like that is actually a very important thing for St. Jude is to like look after these kids long into their life, which is super important to me. I have something called the life study where they go back and they see how kids are getting on and they work with them. This life study has helped them look at new medicines and new ways of treating children. Like how can you do your best to dose for what kids need? And something that is super exciting that is coming soon to St. Jude is 3D printed medicine. So think about a child who needs cancer medicine, which is a very sad thing to think about. They may not have access to the required dosage that they need because not all medicine in all dosages is available to buy on the market. So you may end up buying the dosage could be too high for a kid. Right. You don't want to do that because then you end up kind of putting too much medicine in their body that they don't need. Right. They don't need all of it. They just need what they need. And St. Jude over time has realized that like the lasting effects of some of these drugs can be difficult. They're trying to set these kids up to survive long term and live long term. Right. So with 3D printing, a child can receive medicine in a dissolving film gummy tablet that is precisely dosed to exactly what they need. And this addresses these long term problems that certain patients might have. St. Jude is testing 3D printers that can produce medications in child friendly forms such as dissolving films, mini tablets, medicated lozenges and gummy tablets. These alternative forms make medications more precise and less burdensome to take. Like you can choose, right? This kid needs this amount of medicine. How do they want it to be given? I bet they all choose gummies, by the way. That would be my assumption. Right. Like who wouldn't, if you could have any medicine in any form, who would not choose gummy? You know, that's the way to go. Surely. What this means is more personalized treatments, but it also means greater accuracy. And I think most importantly, improved outcomes for these kids because medications can be tailored to suit each child. This is just another example of the things that are going on in St. Jude and why donor support is fueling these breakthroughs. It's bringing hope and healing to families. This technology is available in some places in Europe. St. Jude's anticipated implementation marks an important moment in pediatric healthcare in the United States. So we want you to join us on this mission. You surely can hear how important this is, right? Like when you hear us talk about these things, it must mean something to you like it does to us because it's such an incredible charity and organization that we get to support. And I know it means something to our audience because of how much money they raise. We've already passed $450,000 raised for the kids of St. Jude this year. We've passed $5 million total lifetime. I would expect that we will pass $5.5 million raised in a lifetime. That would be my hope. We're nearly at $5.3 million now. So, you know, we want to raise $700,000 this year. So I feel like we could hit that together as well, just another incredible milestone to knock off. So honestly, it just takes you a minute to help give a child with cancer hope for a lifetime. We're inviting the Relay community, that's you, to help us reach our goal this year to support Childhood Cancer Awareness Month throughout all of September and a little bit into October. As always, there are multiple ways to support the campaign. Most importantly, go to stjude.org slash Relay and you can make a donation. You can also set up a fundraiser of your own. You can see awesome incentives that are available to you as a donor and as a fundraiser. You can check if your employer will match your donation. And remember to please mark your calendars. The 2026 Podcast of Thunders on Friday, October 2nd. It's the grand finale of the campaign. We'll be running from 12 p.m. to 12 a.m. Eastern on the Relay YouTube channel. More cures, more hope, more tomorrows. Go to stjude.org slash Relay to donate or start a fundraiser today.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, this is amazing. My campaign's going on right now as well. You can go check out the Pen Addict link to the campaign that I'm running, providing art. I've been working. I worked on postcards yesterday because we'll have a bunch of those to mail when I get back from Memphis next week. So creating some art. I'm also doing something new, Myke, which maybe it's a recurring thing. It's called Brad Roast Your Favorite Stationery. I just happened to click over to the campaign page where that's on. And that was my picture from last year where one of the incentives was to shave my beard. I was like, well, if I'm going to roast other people, let's roast myself just by using this picture for the-

Myke Hurley: I feel like this guy, the Martin Chops and Mustache guy, he's particularly good at roasting.

Brad Dowdy: He is.

Myke Hurley: I think that he's got that taken care of.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that feels accurate. So yeah, go check out all the rewards. We're raising a lot of money this month. A lot of money.

Myke Hurley: You've nearly hit $17,000. Yeah, yeah. Like I'll say, if you're listening to this show, you should be donating through Brad's fundraiser. Like, the links in the show notes go donating through Brad's fundraiser.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, and all the giveaways and all the support we've had from the maker community, it's still coming in. So just last week we had, or just actually this week we had Carolina Pen Co., one of Jonathan Brooks' piston filling fountain pens, which I don't even have one of those yet. It's a new pen for him. So the downtown model, that's up for giveaway. All these giveaways are free. You don't have to donate. We just want you to be aware of what we're doing and maybe share it with friends. So yeah, we got a fountain telling pen up there. We got a HelloTello pen. Go look at all of them. It's crazy to have all of this support for what we do every year.

Myke Hurley: So thankful for how people jump in on all sides of it. Yeah, yeah. It's an incredible community that we're lucky to be a part of. I think about it a lot. I've been thinking about it a lot. But it's just so much money that we raise, and it's so outsized comparative to our audience. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty cool. It's incredible. We're very blessed. Yeah, we are. We talk about it a lot of fun for us to do this, but this money actually makes a legitimate difference for childhood cancer. We, as a community, make a noticeable difference, right? It is a huge amount of money that has been donated. So, I mean, it's why the relay name is on the wall inside of the hospital, because we have

Brad Dowdy: all raised that amount together. It's amazing. So, and thank y'all. If I don't say it enough, thank y'all for everything that y'all do to support us. So, yeah, very good. All right, should we dig into some stationary?

Myke Hurley: Shall we dive in? Ah, man.

Brad Dowdy: You were so close, Brad. God, so close. When I was writing this up yesterday, I was going to make a dive pun, because I want to talk about a new Kuru Toga dive. And then I didn't, and then you beat me to it. Yes. Like, so good. Thank you. You nailed it. I'm a professional. You're a professional podcaster. That was coming out of my mouth.

Kuru Toga

Brad Dowdy: Kuru Toga Black Mat and Gun Metal Dive has been launched in Japan. It looked like on September 16th, about a week ago. So, I only see this usually through Japanese sources. This was an Instagram that I wasn't even following. It just got fed to me. And I was like, that dive looks funny. Like, I was looking at the picture. I was like, it doesn't look like any of the ones I've seen, because they've done, the initial one was kind of a bright ocean blue. And then they did some different color ones, you know, green and purple and orange. And I was like, this looks different. So, as I was digging through the translation, it is a black mat barrel. And then it has the gun metal hardware. So, on the dive, if you're not familiar with the dive, you're going to have to go click a link to find it. I have my old review in there. It's this very complicated pencil that Uniball has made in the Kuru Toga lineup. It's the high-end, does-all-the-things pencil, which we'll talk about the pencil itself as we wrap this.

Brad Dowdy: And I was, I guess, surprised to see it, because I really don't understand totally what the dive is for Uniball. Is this just some, you know, premium product that's just for Japan? And that's kind of, right now, that still seems like what it is. When it launched last year, I thought at some point, and I should probably stop putting this on companies. This is my, this is a me problem, where Uniball makes a cool thing. And I've talked about it with Platinum recently with the kimono fountain pen. They make a cool thing, and it's essentially region locked, right? And I want Uniball as a worldwide company to send this elsewhere, right? So, instead of making, like, more dives for the rest of the world, they've just done cooler dives for the environment that they're in. And I can't argue with that either, because that's probably the best market for it. Because this is a very unique pencil and a very expensive, all-things-considered pencil. So, there's no technical differences in this pen other than just the colors, right? So, the, it has a, these, the dive has a few trim, metal trim pieces, like, more like cap rings and things like that. And those are, have been gun metal instead of shiny silver. And the clip is the same way. And the barrel is a matte finish instead of a shiny finish. What's interesting in all of the dive drama we had a couple years ago when it first came out is that it's still, in Japan, only 5,500 yen, which the current conversion rate is $35.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Brad Dowdy: That's a deal if you're in the Japanese market. For the standard one, the black matte one, the point I'm bringing that up, the black matte one is 7,700 yen. The yen? So, it's $49.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Is the yen still weak against the dollar? Yes. I think it is, right? So, I don't think it's as simple as that, right?

Brad Dowdy: Like... I agree. I agree. Yeah. So, like... So, to my point, yeah, I was going to continue this. This, in the US market, so the base one should be like 49, and then the black one like 59 or 64 or whatever, you know, price points they would go in. And that's fine, but it never gets that way because if you're going to get them outside of Japan, even in Europe or in the US, those companies that do sell them are importing them. So, they're paying a premium on the front end. So, the cheapest, like... If you look at a retailer like JetPens in the US, it's $83 for the standard one. If you look at Uniball's own North America site, it's $99, which still enrages me to this day. Yeah. You shouldn't... That's a bit much. You shouldn't pay more than like $50 for this pencil, right? Because at the end of the day, it's not that good of pencil, in my opinion. And again, I'll get to that. We'll revisit that here in a minute. But, this is something, as a stationery fan, you should want companies to be doing, right? This is a very extreme product to where they threw everything they could into a single pencil. And it's not for everyone. And I am trying to like it, but I mostly actively dislike it.

Uniball Innovation

Brad Dowdy: But, I want it to exist, right? And that's how, like, I think about stationery these days. Is, like, I want to see Uniball try something new and different and weird. Like, this is very weird. Some people probably think it's a very ugly pencil. It's a pencil that no one needs. But, like, of course, I want to have one as a stationery lover and a Uniball fan. So, anyway, like, all this is to say is there's a new Kuru Toga Dive model. And it still seems like it's going to be hard to get. And at some point, I just need to get a... Yeah. I just need to, like, get over that stuff. Like, okay. Japan gets nice things. And if we want it, we got to pay double. And that's fine. That's what it is. But...

Myke Hurley: Have you only just learned this?

Brad Dowdy: No, no, no. But I'm trying... I'm having a discussion with myself. That's what I'm doing. It's okay, Brad. It's going to be okay, Brad. But that said, you know, I'm going to be in Japan in a month. So, maybe I can find one for 7,700 yen. And I would 100% buy it even though I actively dislike it.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Kuretoga Mechanism

Brad Dowdy: So, let's talk about why I dislike it. And if you're not familiar with the Kuretoga dive. So, the Kuretoga is a mechanism that Uniball makes that essentially rotates the lead as you write to keep a sharp point. That's a great, great mechanism. What they've done here, and they do this in other Uniball Kuretoga lineups and other Uniball Kuretoga pencils may be on their own. They have an advancing mechanism. So, as you write, not only does it rotate, it extends. And I hate that. I hate the Uniball advance mechanism. Because what I like in a pencil like this is rigidity and firmness. And with the standard Kuretoga, you get that because it's only rotating. But with the advance, it's actually going up and down. You technically shouldn't feel it. But when you use a pencil with an advance mechanism and then use like a stock, you know, engineering pencil or any mechanical pencil without an advance mechanism, you can feel the difference in firmness and softness of how it feels when you're writing. And I dislike that. So, this is like a writing pencil, if you will. Like, if you're going to write a bunch with mechanical pencil, I could see this. For me, it's not useful at all from an enjoyment perspective just because of the advance mechanism. No pencil should have an advance mechanism is my unpopular opinion. And I think most people do like the advance mechanism. And it just doesn't work for me. It's a feel thing, which we talk about a lot. I always have to talk about how I have to describe products. So, I want to feel with a mechanical pencil that I'm writing with a nail. And this is like writing with a sponge. And I don't like it. So, that's my... That's revisiting my Kuretoga dive review. But that's really any advance mechanism. Like that Uni does and other companies do similar things.

Myke Hurley: It's just got like a little bit more active feedback than you're necessarily looking for in that moment. Right? It's like something's happening always.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Like I picked up my dive today because we're going to talk about it. And I'm doing my show notes with it. And from the moment I said it on the page, I was like, I do not like how this feels. Like... And it's instant for me. Like just because I use so many mechanical pencils and I know what I like.

Brad Dowdy: That ain't it. And I will still give you...

Myke Hurley: I don't like the color anyway. I'm not a big fan of like the gunmetal or whatever. Like it's not... Oh, yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I like it. I think it's good. I did like their purple and orange ones better. I will get one of these. I will... This is one of those products I will not chase down. And like I'm lucky that I got my first one from our friend Jacob in Japan. He happened to be at a shop that just got him in when the dive first came out. And he bought one and sent it to me. And that's the only reason I got this one. Because everything else is like a very premium price that's not worth it. But I will get one if I see one in Japan and, you know, maybe give it away or something like that. I'm glad to have this product on my desk. But I just don't use it. It's... It makes me talk though. It makes me think I'm... This is what I... This is what I want from companies. And it sounds like I'm talking about out of both sides of my mouth. But this is what I want Uniball to do. Doesn't mean it's for me. And that's something like we talk about a lot on this show. And we're actually going to talk about later in this show. Unbeknownst to you. So. Okay. That's the Kuretoga mat. Don't overpay for it. I guess is my final statement on this. It's going to be expensive to get outside of Japan. I just urge you not to... This one, there's no reason to chase this. Any Kuretoga dive. If you can get one for like 50, 60 bucks. Which is probably the outside of Japan normal price. That's fine. I wouldn't be paying $99 for this. That's ridiculous. Or $83. Or whatever those numbers are. That's crazy. It's not that good of a pencil. So it's just interesting. Speaking of interesting, my friends Amanda and Graham from Japan SideQuest launched a Kickstarter.

Brad Dowdy: That's... Yeah, it's been up for a few days now. It's something I backed. I got to meet them, Myke. Unfortunately, you missed out. This was at the Twitch Play Live at St. Jude in April 2025. So not this year's Play Live, but last year's where we went to the Play Live event. I think was that last year? I think so. Things all blend together. So I got to meet them there. They're Twitch streamers. I kind of followed Amanda a little bit beforehand, but I'd never talked to her or met them. And I got to meet them in person. Okay. And the funny story I like to tell about this is we were all in Memphis as part of St. Jude Play Live. And we all got to learn about St. Jude. And we're all participating and raising money for St. Jude. And I got to talk to them. I was like, oh, it's so great to meet you. And we hit it off great. And it's like, yeah, as soon as we fly back to Washington State, we're moving to Japan next week. And I'm like, what? So they've been over there like a year and a half now and are doing all the things and including this stationary Kickstarter that I just wanted to mention. They're making a travel journal for Japan. So, you know, it's something very specific. Like, you know, do you want this? It's kind of like you need it for your trip to Japan. I'm not going to have it in time. Obviously, it'll be coming in. It's a Kickstarter next year. But that's okay. But that's okay. So what I'll do, there's so many cool add-ins and stuff. I'll actually probably gift the journal to someone who is going to take the trip. But then I get all the extra accessories. There's like a pencil pouch and postcards. And Amanda does great artwork. That's all her artwork and, you know, washi tape and stickers and all that stuff. So I just wanted to point this out. And I also supported their pen and paper guild. They do a gift box also on the Japan side quest page. So I just unboxed that this week on the blog. This is all, you know, something I paid for. They didn't ask me to do any of this. But I just think, you know, this is my aesthetic, my style. They're lovely people. And I just wanted to shine a light on that here for a minute. I love the 8-bit artwork. I really, I'm looking forward to getting some of this in hand. And then we'll check out the journal when it comes in. And I'll probably see if I can find someone that's going on a Japan trip. Or maybe I just save it for my second Japan trip.

Myke Hurley: Oh, he hasn't even been once. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: He hasn't been once. He's already, what about the next time? What about the next time? Who knows, Myke? Who knows? But yeah. Very cool. So I thought listeners of this show might enjoy seeing that project. So I wanted to make sure to put it in here. All right.

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Brad Dowdy: All right, Myke, we got our shout-out of the week. Shout-out of the week. It's a combo meal, Myke. We're going Heinz Pen Co. and the Dallas Pen Show. So that's the shout-out of the week. Can we mix them together? The Heinz Pen Show? No. Can't do it. Probably. Well, I mean, Heinz is based in Texas. Dallas, as you may know, is based in Texas.

Myke Hurley: I've been stranded in Dallas more times than I can remember.

Brad Dowdy: I have driven through Dallas. And that's about it. So, yeah. Oh, I take that back. I've actually been to the Dallas Pen Show. But when you go to- I would just like to make that clear. I like Dallas.

Myke Hurley: I've just ended up having to spend nights in Dallas because of like failed flight connections a few times. The first time I ever went there for Matt Alexander's wedding, I found like a hotel in an area that I liked. And then I've stayed in that hotel, I think, maybe three more times over the years.

Brad Dowdy: Wow. That's not- I was going to say that's funny, but that's actually not-

Myke Hurley: It's always this trip, by the way.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, nice. Nice. This is the one where I get sucked. So we'll see what happens this time. TBD. Yeah. Yeah. I have actually been to the Dallas Pen Show, but I forget. That doesn't count as being to Dallas because I go to the airport, to the hotel, and then back to the airport. That doesn't really count. So anyway, what I wanted to talk about was my Heinz Pen Co. review of their Sleepner model, which is a large eight-sided fountain pen that they gave me at the Atlanta, way back in the Atlanta Pen Show a few months ago. And I was just getting to the review. And I kind of, this was a happy accident. I had no intention of like doing this combo meal. But the whole goal of a lot of my reviews, and it kind of comes out in this Sleepner review, is that you really, when you get the chance, you take the opportunity to go places or see people that you can test out a lot of different fountain pens and shapes and sizes and feels. Because based on image or description alone, the Sleepner would not necessarily be for me due to its size. It's a larger pen. And I tend to have, I have a few larger pens, but I'm particular about that because that's not my normal feel of a fountain pen. And so this one actually ended up working really well for me because like the acrylic is not too heavy despite being a large pen. And the diameter of the barrel is not too wide because the section is managed right. And these are all things you learn as you go. And spoiler alert, we're going to have a topic on this here. And I'm here in a minute. But to my point, I don't know that I would have ever picked out this pen personally, especially if I'm just seeing it online. Despite how beautiful it looks, I would go, oh yeah, it's probably too big for me. But then you go to a pen show and I got to handle this pen in Atlanta. And I was like, huh, it's very comfortable. And it seems interesting. And I mean, the material is like second to none. That's the easy part. I was like, wow, it looks amazing.

Brad Dowdy: And so like they gifted me this pen and said, hey, take it, review it, see what you think. So I always take a while to do reviews. I'm not very quick as they have just learned. But I put the Dallas pen show here because that's this weekend, this upcoming weekend. And they will be at the Dallas pen show. And if you're at the Dallas pen show, you should take the opportunity, not even necessarily to see Heinz, although I'm sure they would appreciate it if you do, but take the opportunity to take time to see anything, right? To see what you have questions about and what style of pens you might like. This is the best opportunity to go and handle a lot of different stationery, different styles, different shapes. Because, you know, there's nothing that can beat like an in-person experience when you're shopping for a pen. So I thought this pen and the timing of this show was kind of a good match to talk about. And then also relating to the topic that we're going to get to in a minute. So really enjoy this pen more than I expected to, to be quite honest. I just thought it was like, yeah, it's fine, but it's just going to be too big for me. It's not. It's actually quite an enjoyable writer. And I will say specifically to Heinz, and you've seen this before, if you're buying a Heinz pen, get a cool nib. Like they do all the different electroplating nib colors. Get yourself a cool nib to match your pen. Like that's the move.

Myke Hurley: I mean, obviously there are lots of reasons to get a Heinz pen, but like this has to be one of the reasons. Like I wouldn't understand why you would buy one of their pens and then not get a colored nib. Like it feels like a way to go. It adds so much. It adds so much. And it makes the pen really unique.

Heinz Pens

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Super good. They're really good. Really good. So anyway, thanks to Heinz for sending me that pen. And yeah, I wish I was in Dallas. I could go check them out. But you know, like we said, we got other things to do next week.

Kura Toga

Brad Dowdy: All right. We got a topic that came in. It's kind of along the lines of what I've been talking about with the Kura Toga in previously in this episode. It's kind of what I'm talking about with the Heinz pen sleep near just now. And it's a bit of stationary advice I got from my friend Samar on Twitch last week. I was looking for topics and this one came up and I was like, oh, let me think about this. So the question is, VSM, what is one piece of advice you would give someone in every phase of their stationary journey? And that's a great question. This is something we talk about all the time. And again, I've talked about in this episode already. And so I couldn't instantly answer that question. I couldn't like snap answer that question. So I sat on it for like a week and I was like, oh, let me think about this. So the first part of the question is the phase part. What are the phases of a stationary journey? So I came up with three phases and I've titled them. And the names can change, but I think you'll get the general gist. So we have the beginner, right, which is obvious. Someone just getting started in their stationary journey, figuring out things. And then the second stage, the middle stage I call the hobbyist is where you're kind of like embedded now. And you're a little bit more experienced and you're figuring things out. And then the final phase I called expert, right, where you know what you're doing.

Myke Hurley: Here's how I would put those.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Under $200.

Myke Hurley: Over $200. Over $1,000. That's pretty accurate, honestly. Those are the stages. I remember those stages in you. I remember that stage in me. Like, the numbers may be a little more complicated. Like, I actually would have said $100, but that doesn't count anymore. Yes. It's $200. It is. But that's kind of the... When you are willing to spend that money. Whether you have the money is a different thing completely. But you could at least get to a point where you're like, I believe I could spend $1,000 on this pen and understand why I'm doing it. Like, that is the key, I think. Yeah. More so than can I buy it or would I buy it. You get to a point where you're like, oh, I understand why I would buy it. That's what I think the stages are.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And I actually have a fourth phase that's probably rolled into the expert phase, which we'll get into there. It could maybe be its own phase. You're beyond help. We'll talk about it. Is that the thing?

Brad Dowdy: Why are you even asking me anymore?

Brad Dowdy: So, it's good because this is what I focus on the most in my career of talking about pens is giving advice. And the challenge I've always said I've had is how you differentiate between what I like, me personally, what does Brad like versus what other people might find useful information. You know, how can you share this information? And so, these are things I think about all the time. So, if we take it from the top and go to the beginner phase, I think that's the phase where you want to try as many things as possible. And I don't mean spending money as much as possible. Like, I don't mean buying a lot of stuff, right? You want to, if you have the ability, and not everyone has the ability to get out and go to a stationary store or a pen show.

Myke Hurley: Go out of your way, basically. Like, make a point of you're going to do this kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Find, maybe you could find some, even if you're going to like an office supply store, and you're not even looking at like fountain pens. You know, this goes for any type of stationary.

Brad Dowdy: And go somewhere where you can physically see stuff. Even if it's like a bookstore that carries notebooks. And you can see these different things. And then what you're doing is like, if you're looking, if you're at a bookstore, and they have a bunch of notebooks, you're looking at all these notebooks. It's like, oh, I don't know what all these notebooks are. You take something that looks interesting to you, and make a note of it, and then go home and research. Is this, you know, is this Leuchtturm good? You know, what do people say about this rhodia? Like, and try to just have information to think about. And then think about how it works for you. You know, some stores have testers, right? You want to go and try things as much as you can. Get as much hands-on experience as you can. And I know that's not something that everyone can do. So you might have to spend a little bit of money trying to figure out if, you know, if you're not able to get to a store, or have anything in your area, or have any friends that, you know, are into the same, you know, nerdy hobbies as you. Like, you know, you might meet up with someone for coffee that's, you know, just like a friend, and you don't know that they're into pens, but all of a sudden they bring a pen and a notebook to your meetup, and you ask them about that stuff, right? It's just really, the beginner phase is really information collecting and trying to understand, like, what makes products different from each other. And then, secondarily, how that would work for you. So, yeah, the beginner phase is really just finding as much opportunity to try stuff as possible. And again, that's not easy, so maybe you do have to buy some stuff. And just don't go nuts in the beginner phase, because we've all done this where we just all of a sudden outgrow things, right? We found a product that's really good at the time, and then it gets usurped very quickly once you kind of get into these next phases. So, take it slow, take it easy, try as much as you can. Ask a lot of questions, you know, look at things on the internet. You know, a lot of different sources, you know, not just one source, not just three sources, you know, try to decipher. Like, everyone has different tastes. That's what I was saying in the beginning. What I, you know, can like for myself is going to be different than what Myke likes, for example. And what you like now will be different to what you like in the future. Yeah, sheesh, Louise, for sure. So, yeah, that's kind of like the beginner phase. Like, it's hard to be patient in the beginner phase, and I've seen it many times, you know, where people buy just one of everything that's like, you know, $30. And it's like, that's cool, but like pretty soon, now you have a favorite, and now there's five other pens sitting there that you're never going to use again. And that's good. Maybe you give those to another beginner and get them along their journey. So, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be expensive. So, once you get past this initial beginner phase, I think you're starting to get into the hobbyist phase. And that's a wide range of people, and that's probably where most people are who listen to this show. And this is where you take that informational learning and that testing to try to narrow it down to your specific use case, right? So, I write in a certain way. Like, my letters are block style. They're very rigid, very, you know, square shaped, and I print so I don't write in cursive. And then my handwriting is small. So, all of those things, in totality, there is a category of pen that works for that style that I have better than others, right? So, it's not a universal thing. It's like, oh, you know, this nib is great. It's like, well, how do you write? And how does Myke write? Myke, guess what? Myke's left-handed. And, you know, so he has other... A whole new world of possibilities. Yeah. He has different considerations than I have. I can sit here and talk about, like, a stub nib all day. But guess what? Myke rotates that in his hand differently, right? So, Myke has had to learn, well, maybe that's not for me, but maybe this is based on his style. So, when you're getting into that hobbyist phase, you have this baseline of knowledge, and now you need to tailor that knowledge and logic into you personally, right? Do you... How does... What works best with your handwriting? You know, everything in how you hold a pen and how you write is going to be different than pretty much anyone else. It's going to be very unique to you. So, maybe a 7mm gel pen works for you, or is it a 0.38mm gel pen? A medium pelican nib could be amazing for someone and awful for others. Like, medium pelican nibs are awful for me.

Myke Hurley: There's a lot of intense testing and trying at this point, but this is where you're building on your beginner stage, right? Like, in theory, at this point, you've already found places in your world where you're able to get access to products and, you know, and that kind of stuff. So, I guess you're able to play more.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And, like, even if you're not, like, crazy into this, like, you know, myself or Myke, like, say you live in Atlanta and they don't have a great, you know, retail shop, but they have some, you can go test, but once a year they have a pen show and maybe it takes you an hour. You can go spend, like, a day at that show and try to, like, narrow down all these questions that have built up now that you're in this phase and then go there, get that next bit of knowledge, and then take that back the next year when you're, you know, going back again. It's not, it doesn't have to be fast. That's a great thing about this hobby is, like, we all try to make everything fast and quick these days, but this is, you know, it can be a slow-moving hobby and that's a good thing, right? Like, you know, a pilot fine nib is not technically going to change year over year. It's either going to be good for you or it's not going to be good for you, but you're going to learn that at different points along your journey, you know? You're going to learn these things in different stages, right? And then they all just kind of build on each other. Okay, I found a nib. I found a nib. Oh, look, Japanese nibs work for me better than German nibs. And, like, where in the beginner stage, you didn't know that there was a different size, that those things were different size. A medium German nib is different than a medium Japanese nib. Like, you don't know that stuff in the beginner phase. But in the hobbyist phase, you start to learn these things and then you dial it in, you know? Like, how does paper work for how you hold the pen and what you use? And, like, it all builds on each other, right? You might have found the pen and you had some crappy paper and it makes you think the pen's bad. You know, the medium Pelican nib is very, you know, inky, wet nib. And you're using it on this paper that doesn't allow that nib to work well, right? So you try to figure these things out. Is the paper the problem or is the pen the problem? And this is where you're learning this in the hobbyist phase, right? And then you can dial in, well, this paper works better. And then that goes into ink, right? It's like, well, the paper's good, works with this other pen and ink, but this ink doesn't work on this paper, right? Trying to figure out all of your specific use cases, this is where you're dialing it in in this hobbyist phase because you have enough experience to ask the questions. You may not know the answers, but then that's what, you know, learning is about and trying to find those answers and, you know, reaching out to people like myself or going to pen shows and asking vendors and retailers, you know, asking other people, you know, joining community groups and asking other people how these things work. And can you explain, you know, the difference between bank paper and why won't people shut up about Tomoe River paper? And, you know, what does all this mean? And as far as me, then you go, then someone tells you and you go, oh yeah, that sounds terrible. I wouldn't use that anyway. So it's just this, it's this refinement of knowledge phase in the hobbyist phase. So then you move on and you're an expert. And I'm calling this one the customization zone. This is where you know what's up. You know how a product works for you. You can tell quickly that a product is for you or not for you. Like the more I've done this over the years, the faster I can tell something about a product. Good, bad, indifferent, how it works. Oh, it's, you know, there's some slight difference here. Like before we were talking about the Kreatoga, how I can instantly feel it the second it hits the page that I do not like this because it moves. And I hate that. Right? Where before, I might be going, oh, this is an interesting mechanical pencil. Look how it writes. Yeah. And it wouldn't be till over time I was like, why is this different? And now I can tell that instantly.

Myke Hurley: You're just impressed by the technology of it or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Right. So, you know, you learn these things. Like I'm having a conundrum right now with the Jetstream Light Touch ink. And I'm using that exclusively in this one pen that I have. And it is not performing as well as the standard Jetstream ink. And it's actively bothering me because this is supposed to be an even more premium product. And it's doing things better than a standard Jetstream ink. But it's not as clean of a line. Right? Ballpoint pens can get messy and you don't want that. And Jetstream has historically not been. So I'm having this real challenge with this ink. But that's where the expert phase comes in where to something like that is probably not noticeable by 90% of people. Wouldn't even register. But this one is actively bothering me. So you get into these areas of proficiency for yourself, like me, with like a fine, you know, ballpoint or gel ink pen or a mechanical pencil where I can tell pretty quickly there's differences here. That's when you're getting into the expert phase. So then you're trying to nail down, like, why is it this way? Is it good for me? Is it bad for me? You're willing to take on experiments like a Kuretoga dive, right? That's not a pencil you're going to recommend to a beginner or a hobbyist, right? There's an expert level that you're going to need to spend $50 on a weird mechanical pencil, right? You're going to be working on, if you're a fountain pen user, you're going to be working on your nibs, right? To make them even better for your writing experience. You know, you're not going to have necessarily, you take a medium Pelican nib and turn it into a stub nib. You're going to turn it into, like, a Kodachi nib and do these different grinds and architect nibs and, like, needle points and, like, the extreme ends of the spectrum. Once you've figured out stubs and cursive italics.

Myke Hurley: You're into marginal gains territory. Yes.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. That's a great way to put it. So, yeah. And that's just, you're dialing in what works for you even more and what you enjoy. Like, there's going to be a lot of aesthetic options in the expert phase where you can make a decision because you know you're getting a cool nib and you know this pen is going to work well. What other materials does this product come in? Does it come in a different finish, right? Do you have, like, a metal pen with, like, all kinds of engraving on it or do you like a, you know, some Arushi work, right? Like, classic Arushi can be beautiful to some and some people aren't going to really pay it any attention. That's where the expert zone is. And it's like, it never ends, right? There's always more. Well, yeah, this is the endless part. Beginner and hobbyist

Myke Hurley: have an end where either you decide not to continue going further or you can't or whatever, right? Or, like, you're like, I'm good with this, right? Yeah, I'm good with this. I hear that all the time. Yes. But the expert phase has no end. Correct. Now, what I would say is, like, you can kind of move between them a little bit. Like, I think I've gone down a bit to hobbyist just because I'm learning new stuff. Okay. So, you know, like, as I've kind of, I think, jumped down into learning a little bit more about pencils over time or now more about rollerballs and ballpoints than I have before, right? Like, I think I don't feel like I'm bringing an expert's mind to those things as such. It's like, let me go and learn a bit about this. But I don't think you ever, you don't leave expert.

Expert Phase

Brad Dowdy: Yes. As such. Right. You have a different baseline. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, that brings me to, like, the last statement. I put this in the expert category and you can, you know, say if it belongs there or listeners can say if it belongs there. Maybe it's, you know, level 3.5 or is it level 4? I put in here refinement as part of the expert stage. And I don't know if that's a stage of its own or is it part of the expert stage that now I have less. Right. Yeah. I have become an expert. I know exactly what I want. So, now I can sell or give other things. So, I've actually, like, I've peaked in, like, quantity. Right. But not, I haven't peaked in, like, like, perfection. Like, finding, like, the really great stuff.

Myke Hurley: Ideal, like, state of the expert level. Like, that's when you kind of, like, you've reached a point where you've fully understood what you like and you will move forward from this point. But it just means that you're not, you don't need to experiment so much anymore because you've absolutely dialed in, like, this is what I care about. That's how I look at it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, I wrote down for refinement is sometimes the expert phase is not about more, it's about less. Yeah. Right? And I think that's true because you have, you know, reached a certain level where your interests are very defined and not everything where you were very broad before. Now you've kind of, like, refined it, even though it's still a lot. Like, I like a lot of different things. I've learned more about so many different things. I still have a lot of variety and a lot of knowledge about all these things but it's like I don't need to have that hobbyist curiosity as much even though I still do but I look at it from an expert point of view and how that will fit me. So, I think refinement is definitely an important stage when you reach like the expert level to where you've kind of like climbed this mountain and like you got a pretty good view and now it's like yeah, yeah, maybe we can start wandering back down a little bit and like really, really dialing in everything. So, I think that's part of any hobby. You know, I think this can translate to other hobbies as well. You know, the one thing that I've never, like I obviously classify myself as an expert but the one thing I've never you know, let slide is I'm very curious about all this stuff. Like I'm super interested in this stuff. It doesn't mean that they're good for me or like a perfect product. You know, that's why I can talk about the Kuretoga Dive forever because it's a product I actively dislike using but actively love that it exists, right? And that's like, I think that's like the expert phase is understanding a product's place in like the whole stationary realm. What is the Uniball Kuretoga, excuse me, what is the Uniball Kuretoga Dive's place in the mechanical pencil realm? And you know, that's, I'm able to look at it now where if I was looking at it from a beginner or even a hobbyist phase, I might just kind of like write this whole thing off as like, oh, that's stupid. And now I can kind of look at it a little bit more objectively, I think, while still having a very firm opinion personally, right? So that's like, that's like a whole challenge too. So anyway, I thought that was a good question and a good way to like go through this stuff. Do you have anything,

Myke Hurley: anything more on this? I don't think so. What I do feel though is that this is going to generate a lot of feelings and unlessness. Yeah, that'd be good. If they would like to share them, they can go to penaddictfeedback.com and share them. So we'd like to know, like, what do you think about what we're saying here? Where are you? Do you want to move up or down? You know? Yeah. Would it be nice to just go back to being a beginner? You can let us know penaddictfeedback.com or you can send Brad an email at penaddict at gmail.com. What? Right? Is that correct? Hell no. What is it then? Hello at penaddict.com. Man, just, you know what, actually, just email penaddict at gmail.com. Just see what happens, but don't do that. That's true. I'm actually curious. Hmm. Do I have that email? Here is the thing, Brad, I'm going to be honest with you. I forgot what your email was and I just took a blind guess. Yeah. Which, to be honest, it's not a bad guess. Right?

Brad Dowdy: I mean, you might as well just said notco.com. That would actually have been closer.

Myke Hurley: But penaddict at gmail.com,

Brad Dowdy: surely you have at least considered that email address before. Probably. You know? Do I have that? There's no way that's my email address. I would be, okay, let's rewind. Don't send an email to that address. No, I think, I think you should.

Email Addresses

Myke Hurley: I would like to just say I googled, I googled penaddict at gmail.com, right? Uh-huh. And the AI overview in its glorious helpfulness. It said, thepenaddict at gmail.com is a public contact email address for Brad Dowdy, the creator and voice behind the penaddict blog and podcast. Hmm, interesting. And this was from a transcript from episode 19 of this podcast, which is hosted

Brad Dowdy: on the stationary wiki. Is it thepenaddict at gmail.com? Yeah. Hmm. Is that what the, I don't even think that's the base account, like the, you know, like the backup Gmail account. Wow. Now I've got, I've been doing this too long. I don't even know. But also,

Myke Hurley: in the very typical way that the AI overview works, when I click through, I see no reference to this part that it's saying is a thing, right? Yes. I'm going to expect that you do have that email address, though. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, wait, I found it. Yeah, you, I found it. It is, I mean, I apologize, I would like to apologize to the overview, to the AI overview, all right? It is on this page. It said, there is a part, it says, thepenaddict. You can email me, thepenaddict at gmail.com.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Okay. I do think that, I do recall that. Because I think we used to have an argument about, thepenaddict or thepenaddict. Yes.

Myke Hurley: Yes. Mm-hmm. We had lots of disagreements about that over time. Episode 19. Here's the thing, I'm now upset that you were like, there's no way my email address could be that. And the difference was the.

Brad Dowdy: Except I don't know where that even goes to. Oh, we're going to, oh boy, we're going to have fun. Like, I don't even know where that's forwarded to. I mean, I guess it's hello, penaddict. Boy, this is, this is interesting. All right. Would you like to, continue your outro now?

Myke Hurley: If you have anything bad to say. Yes. Send an email to thepenaddict at gmail.com.

Myke Hurley: Otherwise,

Brad Dowdy: I won't interrupt, I won't interrupt you that time.

Myke Hurley: Otherwise, penaddict, hello at penaddict.com is where you can send Brad an email. Yes. Go to penaddict.com and you can read Brad's work. You can go to spokesdesign.com and you can see his products, twitch.tv slash penaddict. You can find us both here at Relay. Relay.fm slash penaddict is where you find the show. If you want to find me, I'm here on Relay. You can find me at theenthusiast.net and cortexbrand.com as well. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks to Squarespace for their support. Enjoy the guests next week. Please tune in to the podcast-a-thon, stju.org slash relay. Bye-bye. Bye. Oh, I didn't do it right. Say goodbye, Brad. I already hit stop. Ah!