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The Pen Addict 663/transcript

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The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode: 663
Title: You Literally Learned Nothing Today
Release Date: April 30th, 2025
Hosts: Brad Dowdy

Myke Hurley

Guests: No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page: Episode 663
Audio File: Audio Episode 663
Podcast page: The Pen Addict 663
Length: 6464 min <br />1.067 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript Next Transcript


  • From Relay, this is The Pen Addict, episode 663. This episode is brought to you by Kenro Industries and the Canalea Pen Co. My name is Myke Hurley. I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi, Brad. Hey, Myke. How's it going? I'm excited for today's episode. That's funny you say that, because I am too. I mean, I'm excited for most episodes. Why are you excited? I'm looking forward to sinking my teeth into the tariff discussion later on. Okay. Actually, I said it might not be that big or broad of a discussion, but I think we might actually have a lot to say.
  • I don't know that we have a lot of interesting things to say. I think we just have a lot of clarity.
  • That's probably the wrong term. You have clarity on tariffs? No, I don't. No. You know, you can probably sell that clarity for billions of dollars. True, true. I could use a few billion right now. I don't know about you. Let me ask you, Brad. A Lamy going to make billions of dollars? Literally what I was about to say. A Lamy could probably use some input. I don't know that they're going to make billions of dollars.

Discussion of Mitsubishi and Lamy Safari 2025 limited edition colors[edit]

  • I'm wondering where Mitsubishi lies on this latest Lamy Safari 2025 limited edition colors. To the shock of no one, I have a lot to say about this.
  • Should I let you go first? I'm actually more curious about what you think. I liked the little video they put up. I think that was interesting. I thought that the colors, as they showed them, were fine. And then the story comes a little bit more interesting with the other stuff that you have that you'll get to. I would say they're fine. These are nowhere near as good as the other ones they did. The two-tone ones, I think, that were going on while I was away. Like the aubergine and the something else. Those were sick, by the way. I realize now I have not mentioned this on the show. The aubergine ones, specifically, rules. That is an excellent Lamy pen. So that's the Lamy All-Star 2025 limited editions were denim and aubergine. And that's just in general, those are like two of the best releases they've done in years. Absolutely. Just period, full stop, any product line. Like they're great. So Lamy Safari had no chance this year, no matter what they did. They almost couldn't do anything that would beat this if there's a competition. There's only a competition on this show. I'm Team Safari. And Ana and many others are All-Star always. All-Star won Lamy Zero this year. Easy. Like I can straight up admit that. This is, like I said, the video is the best part of this release. The colors are good, right? I don't have any qualms with the colors.
  • Except in the marketing is confusing. Confusing enough with the scarlet color. I think the scarlet is my favorite of the two. But we'll get into that a little bit more. But just for clarity purposes, you may not know, if you don't follow this, that the scarlet is actually a matte barrel. And then the dark dusk is a glossy barrel. It's not scarlet though, is it? Like, let's be real. Excuse me. Sunset. I see red. I think dark. Good. Because this is called scarlet. They've messed up because that ain't scarlet. Oh, that's the other thing you missed. Go look up Lamy Scarlet and tell me what color that is. I caught some of that conversation because that is absolutely not a scarlet pen.
  • I'm still having a problem with that. So, yes. Sunset. Sunset is a matte finish.
  • And it's so much of a matte finish that a retailer jumped into the Lamy Global feed saying, Hey, this video is great and all. But you make that pen look glossy in here. And like, without saying it, Goldspot is saying, Hey, that's a problem for us. Because people, you're setting the expectations of this being a glossy pen. And that's one thing that the Safari has always done. That's one of the problems the All-Star never has. It could be a problem in that like you actually, you know, maybe for some customers, you've not made this pen look as good as maybe some people would think. Yeah. I think it looks way better as a matte finish pen than a glossy finish. I actually think that would be fun. And also, there's not a lot of these kinds of, this kind of finish on Lamy Safaris, I think. It's more glossy than anything else. Yep. Yep. So, I like them. I like, they're fine. They're just regular. Like, which is good. There's nothing wrong with that. The one thing they did do well is do like kind of the, like, especially on the, I'm never going to call it the right color. I want to call it Scarlet, but Sunset. But they did, you know, the matching clip color and the matching finial like they did. They did a good job with the matching of the colors and the clips and the finials. So, kind of all, all throughout the pen from top to bottom matching. One thing they did do, I'm going to give them a shout out for, which this is something they didn't normally do. In the ballpoint of the Sunset. So, Lamy's ballpoint is a favorite of mine. And the Nox are generally just a black rubber because they're like a little compressed, you know, spring looking thing. So, they're like a rubberized black. And they match the color to that for Sunset, which they don't always do, which I thought that was a good touch. So, yeah, they're fine when you put them up against the All-Star release, which is what I always base my like and dislike of these on. Like, they're not even close. But as a Safari product, they're good. The other hang-up I had a little bit with Sunset is we're not that far off from Strawberry, which they did. That was only like two or three years ago. So, they do this thing sometimes where they'll repeat colors like at too high of a frequency in the product lineup. I would have liked to see some different color in there in this release as opposed to Sunset. But like as a concept, like it's very just fine. It's fine. Like there's honestly, if I didn't have this whole bit on here about Safari versus All-Star, this like wouldn't actually be a pin that I would be that interested in talking about. Right. Like it's fine. Like it's fine. It's regular. It's fine. So, there you go. Anything else on that? Because I'm actually very curious about this next topic. No, go for it. Were you aware of the TWSBI Precision before I put this link in the show notes? Okay. So, this is an OG. Yeah. This is an OG TWSBI style that they haven't sold in years. Like the original one was kind of like a champagne-y, silvery, taupe-y kind of thing. And people liked it, right? It's a metal-barreled TWSBI. Very rotary-y, I guess. Never liked it. Big facets, big metal. I've never liked it either. Yeah. And I've used it. I think we reviewed it on the blog. I would probably have to go look it up to see if we reviewed it. I think we did.

Reflections on TWSBI Precision and its historical context[edit]

  • Could it have been 10 years ago? I'm actually curious now. So, I'm vamping to put you on that task. As I talk about this, I think people will like it. But I think it's more of an oddity based on expectations of what people think TWSBI is. Kind of like their mechanical pencil. Their mechanical pencil has this same kind of like super like industrial-looking pen. And I know people… Yeah, August 2015. Oh, no. That was the pencil.
  • Yeah, that was the pencil. We may not have reviewed the original Precision. Google says no. But you reviewed the pencil in 2015. Well, it was at least around that time frame that this original Precision came out. It was when they were doing… It was kind of like the first batches like after like the 540s. And then kind of before they got into the 580s. And way before Ecos and Swipes and all that stuff. It was like the VAC when the VAC kind of came around. And there was lots of stuff going on. So, basically, it was interesting to see this come back. It was really out of the blue. It caught me off guard. So, what I'm most curious about is if people enjoy this pen. I'd like to hear about it. Like if you've bought this pen or used the old Precision and you love it and you've been waiting for a new one. I'm just genuinely curious because this is…
  • TWSBI hasn't been around that long. But this is literally, hey, let's pull this out of the archives. And I wonder why. Why?
  • If, again, this is my apologies for not doing the full research. I just… The more I talk about this, the more questions I have. The price isn't bad. And I think it's around the price of what the original one was, you know, a decade or so ago. So, this is only like an $80 pen only. It looks good for that price. It's expensive. Yeah, for that price. For that price, it feels pretty good. So, when I saw this drop, I was like, eh, nah. And now I'm like, I'm kind of interested. Like I'm… But I'm more interested in seeing if people are interested in this pen either as a TWSBI fan or, hey, this is finally a TWSBI that I like type of thing. It's a design outlier. Again, like the VAC, their big VAC. It's not for everybody. It's such an outlier type of product. I'm curious to get some feedback on it if people have it. So, not an outlier. Just a cool, cool pen, Myke, is the new tactile turn 16-bit. What are your thoughts on this release? Not my Super Nintendo.
  • Not digging it? Do you know this? No, I don't know that one. So, the Super Nintendo is what this is riffing on. They have the 8-bit, which is riffing on the Nintendo Entertainment System, the NES, and the light gun. So, it brought in some of the orange in it. So, they've gone for 16-bit, which is the follow-up to that. And it's Super Nintendo in the two kind of purpley shades and the gray. This colorway of gray and purple was only in America. In Japan and Europe, the Super Nintendo looks completely different. So, I've put a link in the show notes, Brad. It takes you to the Wikipedia page. The Japanese and European Super Nintendo console had a completely different design and different color accents, which is vastly superior in every respect, in my opinion. I think the console looked better and the controller was the same gray on gray, but it had four colors. So, primary colors, like green, blue, yellow, red, as the colors on the buttons. And so, I think this is a better version. I think Tactile Term messed up here by not doing both. I think they should have done both. I think that would have been a really good idea for them to end up with the US, so like the PAL and the NTC versions of the SNES. They've catered too hard to the American market. I mean, they are an American brand. I'm actually going to bring them up later in tariffs. I know they are, but it's too hard, you know. They should. Because I think that, like, the purple is nice. I think that the bright colors are even more fun. So, what if I told you that maybe they're thinking ahead to a certain 64 option that might handle your color issues with this? Yeah, but I have no real affinity to the N64. I was not an N64 kid. I would like an SNES one. That is my focus. But, yes, they will get to those same primary colors in the N64 later down the line. Because this is, like, the thing of, like, the way that Nintendo at least sees the design. They emulate and remix the Super Nintendo, as it was also known, the Super Famicom colors. Yes. The US Super Nintendo, they've never gone back to the purple on purple. I don't know the history exactly for why they decided they needed a completely different design for America. I'm sure it was some market research that dictated it. But Nintendo do not come back to that as, like, part of their history very often. Yeah. Let me be very clear. I'm not saying they're doing a Nintendo 64 version. Well, but they obviously are, though. You know what I mean? Now that we have two, how do you stop, right? Well, you stop if this one doesn't work. I mean, clearly the 8-bit was a success for them. I love that, Ben. I use it all the time. And I'm sure this will be successful. What bums me out is, like, I didn't know they did a pencil.
  • I really want the pencil, but I don't want this purple one because it's, like, it's not for me, man. I feel you. That's really great input. You know, I had my America glasses on, and, you know, I've never seen any other color besides this. Plus, this was not a console I owned. There are so many people, maybe even Tactile Turn, that didn't know this. Right? They just didn't know that everywhere else in the world, the Super Nintendo looks completely different.
  • Yeah, these colors are, like, burnt into my head, even though I never owned this system, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's classic colors. I do have one on the way. It hasn't arrived yet, but Tactile Turn often sends me these releases to play around with and talk about. And I really love the colors. So 8-bit was a huge hit because it was a really, the orange, like, hit, like, the right amount of colors and the right amount of design hit. I do, again, my favorite detail on these is the eject button, which they use. But I'm feeling you now, Myke. So if I write this up, which I don't know that I'll do, like, a full review, but I might put it, you know, just take some pictures or whatever, I will make a point to add in this new bit of information that I learned today, Myke. That's pretty, pretty wonderful. I like it. I like the pictures. I like the Cheeto dust. I feel bad for the pen that got destroyed by the Cheetos, but I think it's great.

Introduction of the Lamy ABC fountain pen for children[edit]

  • It's appropriate. Appropriate. Wow, we are alluding to a lot of things in this podcast, but not there yet. We got to talk about the Lamy ABC, Myke, or at least I have to talk about the Lamy ABC.
  • So this is a Lamy fountain pen that they designed for kids, essentially like a school pen, right? When kids are first starting to learn to write, can we make a pen that's going to assist with grip and hold the way to hold the pen and just, like, you know, how they manipulate the pen in their finger? And to give them a better writing option. So that was the original design of this pen. It's not really that. It's not really a school pen anymore. Like, I'd be hard pressed to find a school. Like, you know, maybe our German contingent can email in if we're still, if kids are still using a Lamy ABC. I doubt that. And that was kind of like the end of my reviews. Like, it's kind of expensive. So, but maybe Lamy has some school subsidies and we'll send out things to kids. That'd be nice. But I looked at it from the perspective of, okay, is this a great school pen for kids? Yes. But is it a pretty cool pen for adults? Also, yes. I thoroughly enjoy this pen. And I've been waiting to get one out of no reason other than it wasn't going anywhere. Like, I wasn't in a rush to get one. And they always had a blue cap and a red cap. And if you haven't seen the Lamy ABC, it's a wood barrel pen. Like, a natural white colored wood with either blue or red plastic ends. And then they, out of the blue, this is kind of maybe the more I think about the most surprising thing. They did a special edition color of black. I don't know why. Why the Lamy ABC would get, like, a new colorway, like black. Like, instead of, like, maybe some fun design on the plastic, right, to make it even more, like, a kid color, kid style with, like, the blue and the red. But add in art or different, you know, different things on the cap. It's such a fun pen to use, Myke. Like, it's got a little bit of a problem for adult hands where the grip section is shorter in length. So, like, if I use a Lamy Safari, the molded grip section is long enough for my fingers to fit in there comfortable. Here, it feels like you more have to use the tips of your fingers, only hit the molding in the grip section. So, it's slightly uncomfortable for that. But it's meant to be a big broad stroke pen, like, for kids. Like, I'm not trying to write in details with that. And it's just fun. Like, I really, really enjoy products that just bring out the fun in pens. Like, I got to put my name on it, Myke. And it was the hardest decision was what color sticker do I use for my name. There was a yellow one and a blue one and a green one. I went with green. I could have done two-tone because there is a little round sticker for the end of the pen to match, you know, when the kids lose the cap of the pen. And, well, how do they know which barrel it goes on to if multiple kids lose them? Well, there's a little dot for the end of the barrel, too. So, I put my initials on that so I can match. Very cool. So, I don't know. Just everything about this pen is cool. Even the nib. The nib is called an A nib, which Lamy uses in this pen. And I believe the Nex is the only one you can get the A nib. It's not that different from a standard medium nib. It's just like an easy writing nib. I don't have, like, I can't speak highly enough of this pen. It's fun. It's not for everyone. But it is freaking fun. And I'm going to keep this pen around because I like it that much. So, we've talked about your growing up in school. Did you use fountain pens, like, back when you were, like, in early grade school? We had, like, so the main pens that, like, kids in England used when I was a kid were the B-roll, barrel, handwriting pens. Sure, sure, yeah. Like, that was, like, your typical pen that we used. Yeah. But there was also, like, when we were doing, as pointed out, we were talking with Rob, joined up handwriting class. Yeah. We would use a fountain pen. But they were like, okay, come and collect the fountain pens from the thing. They all go back at the end. Right. Because... I gotcha. Kids are going to make a mess of these things. They're going to be a disaster. And so, there was... I don't know what fountain pen it was that we used. But, yeah, I distinctly remember the barrel handwriting pen. It was, like, a hard felt... It's, like, a hard, like, plastic tip pen. Yeah. I guess would be the way to describe it.
  • Yeah. Beryl generally makes, like, the art style pens and drawing style pens. Yeah. So, yeah, like, a hard plastic tip would make sense. And it also kind of makes sense that you would use it during class and then give it back. So, yeah, pretty interesting stuff. So, anyway, I love, like, not just entry-level fountain pens, but, like, kid-focused, like, young writing-focused pens. Like, the Pelican. Like, Pelican has a couple, like, the Twist and the Pelicano.
  • I don't know. They're just fun. And it's fun to see. And it's fun to think about it. But I just don't think they're used that much in schools anymore for, you know, a litany of reasons. Yep.
  • All right. Should we take a break? Let's do it. All right. This episode is brought to you in part by our friends over at Kenro Industries, a.k.a. Estabrook is what we're going to talk about today because we love the Estabrooks around here. I actually have that golden one on my desk, which is beautiful. But if you're looking for a pen and accessory set that's playful, thoughtful, and beautifully crafted for everyday use, look no further than Estabrook. Estabrook relaunched in 2018, breathing a whole new life into an already iconic American writing brand. And since the relaunch, Estabrook have focused on beautifully crafted products that blend heritage with modern storytelling. They are known for creative materials, clever packaging, and meaningful collaborations that speak directly to writers, journalists, and pen lovers. And their newest launch is a collaboration with Helen of the Coffee Monsters Co. Helen is known for her whimsical illustrations and global journaling community. For this collaboration, Estabrook and Helen of the Coffee Monsters Co. have created a special edition Estee fountain pen. The SD is presented in a cafe latte-inspired resin exclusive to this release. It features a custom blended grip and ring section for a tonal and textural touch unique to this edition. This pen includes a specially engraved emoti nib, also designed just for this collection by Helen. It's packaged in a beautifully designed box featuring exclusive artwork and sticker sheets, also designed by Helen herself. This pen rules so much. Again, this is something else I found out about for the first time while on my break. And I was listening to one of the episodes where you were talking about this. Man, this pen is good looking. Wow. Did you know I had this pen, Myke? I didn't know until I heard it. You know what I mean? Like, now I heard it. I was a good old listener of the show, listening along. It's beautiful. And I, you know, I will echo what you said. I mean, I've only seen pictures of this thing. But I just think this is like such a killer collaboration where everyone was in their A game. And I think Esther Brook, I think they did a really good job in what seems to me of kind of just like giving over the reins to Helen. You know, like the packaging just doesn't look like Esther Brook packaging at all. Right. Like it's, it has their logo on it, but it's very, very focused around the Coffee Monsters Co. And I just think that's the way to go. And the colors that they chose and everything about this pen, man, it looks good. I love it. It's my new favorite blotter paper too. Like they have some, you know, other accessories, ink and blotter paper and some other stickers and things you can get in this whole product lineup. I literally use this blotter paper all day, every day, even if I'm not using the pen, which I happen to be using this pen right now for my show notes. And it's great. And yeah, I was joking because I got it early and it's been such a hyped pen. And, you know, there's still a lot that are out there to be delivered, but you like you can still order it. And it's just a great pen. I don't know. I just love everything about it. Like they like nailed it, right? Like just completely nailed it.
  • But there's more as Esther. There are accessories. You can grab some items that complement this new SD, like the Coordinating Coffee Monsters Co. Inc., which is a warm brown blend, perfect to this pen. All those blotter papers to round out your writing experience, all designed and complemented with Helen's art and everyday journaling in mind. This special SD edition pen will be available to buy beginning April 9th. So that was weeks ago. So it is available now. I think in waves though, right? I think it's going in and out of stock. So just go to estabrookpens.com to get yours. That is estabrookpens.com to grab your special edition Coffee Monsters Co. pen. Our thanks to Estabrook for their support of this show and all of Relay. I wanted to do this shout out of the week to someone I've... Oh God, I forget. You just blow past me now. This is shout out of the week erasure that is happening.
  • Last week you stole my song. This week you just decided to just carry on. Just off he goes. You take two months off and this is what you get in return. I am your wayward son. So yeah, this is for Mentlodica. This is a website that many of you will be familiar with. My friend Susan does amazing artwork. And this is where I get my desk pads. So I took a picture of one of the newer desk pads in my Lamy ABC review. Well, one of the new ones to me. I ordered a few new ones. But it's funny now that I think about it right after talking about Helen and then now talking about Susan that they both just have an artistic style that appeals to me. They're great creators and I love supporting artists and makers of cool things. So you're familiar a little bit with Mentlodica. Also, they do keyboard caps and things of that nature. So I just wanted to give a shout out again for my desk mats and for my friendship with Susan who's a super awesome person. We did a Retro 51 collaboration back in the day. I think I still have a couple left, the Pastel Sheba. So no surprise where the Sheba artwork comes from. But I wanted to give a shout out to Susan and tell her thanks and keep on making great stuff. Yep.
  • Speaking of making great stuff again, Myke. Oh my God. Why would you do that?

Exploration of tariffs and their impact on businesses[edit]

  • Why is that the introduction to this? Because there's no way we're getting out of this talk. So essentially, what we're not going to be able to do here in talking about tariffs is give any kind of like insight. Clarity. Clarity into the situation. You know, like it's changing daily. Like there's new headlines today. This doesn't make any sense. For the sake of this conversation, let us just assume tariffs will remain in some regard. I mean, they have to a degree in that, you know, I think it's gotten lost a little bit in the very large numbers that have been thrown around. That there is a baseline tariff of 10% that is levied on everything from every country currently. Currently.
  • And going into the US. By the US. Let's be clear. Yeah. Let's be clear. I think it is implied, but yes. By the US. To the rest of the world. We are the baddies meme right now. Yes. I mean, this is, it's very complicated, right? Because lots of countries are tariffs. Sure, it is. It is not, in my opinion, it is not like objectively bad to have them. Right? Correct. With the right mindset, America can have them. I think at the 10% level is like, fine, you want like a token amount of money that you want to generate from somewhere else. I think the big problem is the massive tariffs that were suggested and are still kind of being dangled over many countries. And the way in which they were gotten to, which, you know, whatever the right way was, was not really based on what seemed to be any kind of like sound economic thinking. Right. And what has happened is kind of, is the fallout as we said today at the end of April is two things. The stock market is still struggling, if that's something you care about or not. You know, there are many ways in which that can affect you, even if you're not somebody who cares about the stock market. And the second thing is the impact that it is having on businesses who are either, A, hurt by the tariffs that exist,
  • whether they're the baseline or more. But even the baseline can 10% can make a big problem for a lot of companies because margins can be small. Or B, the uncertainty of tariffs is resulting in a lot of companies, small companies, small businesses, especially in Asia, just not shipping anything to America for the time being or maybe further. Is that kind of like a good lay of the land for where we are today? Yep. Yep. You took a lot of thoughts I had and laid them out there just as the setup. Uncertainty is my big takeaway, right? There's nothing here that is certain, and that's the problem, right? Like, we'll talk a bit about the small business side of it here in a minute. But it's just the general uncertainty that this has caused. And, you know, stationery specific, like, it reaches deep into, like, the product chains of, you know, these manufacturers, including myself and including Myke, that we're having to deal with and thinking about things differently. Or honestly, you know, in the case of Spoke, which, again, I'll dig into this later, like, sometimes you just have to sit and wait and see what happens because it changes so fast. But that really ties, you know, small businesses' hands when they're, you know, that's their only thing that they do is tied up in the uncertainty. It's got to be just a nightmare type of situation for a lot of people. So we don't have any answers, right? It's literally going to change probably by the time we're done talking about this or by the time you listen to it. But there are some just kind of general things we can discuss today so you can get a broader picture of how it does affect our industry. I have a couple links in the show notes. One from the best article you can read is Tariffs in EDC by Anthony Scullambrini. He's a good friend and a lawyer. He's, I've talked to him many, many times over the decades. Did a really great post trying to explain things that he is more experienced with than you or I. And did a good job on that. So go read that because the EDC and gear market, you know, think like Anthony does, knives and flashlights and pens and things like that. So he does a, he has a really great article. And then just a more general like question article from Nifty over at Notebook Stories is called How Will Tariff Affect Notebook Prices? And that's kind of what we'll talk about a little bit today. Before I forget, did you see that Hobonichi, there's just like a bunch of the product line they're just not going to ship to America now? No, no. I saw that on Instagram a day or two ago. They're still selling the notebooks, but like a lot of the covers and stuff, they're just, they're like, no, we're not going to do this in the U.S. now. Yeah, because there's questions about how much you can send, what value, what dollar value you can send without getting, you know, your customers dinged by tariffs. And like I've had an anecdote from a couple of friends who have ordered pens from Japan who had ordered them almost like a pre-order type of situation, right? And spent, you know, like over an $800 amount and then getting hit with another, you know, $150, $200 worth of tariffs because by the time they shipped, like new tariffs were applied. So it's a really, really like sketchy situation on, again, certainty. There's no certainty in any of this right now. So one personal example, and I don't think they'll mind me saying because this is something anyone can figure out, but like I'm making a new Retro 51 this year. And, you know, we've been in the design and quoting and pricing process for a while earlier this year. And it just so happened when we got everything done, it was time to get the product quoted. They make their products in Taiwan.
  • It was literally, I think, like the worst week for me to get a quote from them. And like they know, like they know, right? They're not like it's bad for them too, right? Because now I have to decide, well, the day I got the quote, Taiwan was under a 32% tariff. Like that's a crap load for me, right? In a big pin order and from a small business like myself. So I literally didn't respond to that email because like my eye, I was trying to do the math in my head, right? And just thinking about like what I would have to charge for this pin. And is that feasible? And should I order the quantities I already order? And things like that. Literally the next day that tariff got pulled. So I hadn't even replied to the email. And in the first quote, so the next day the tariff was on hold, not removed. It was paused for 90 days. They were in one of the countries that was paused for 90 days. I literally emailed back. All I said was, how about today? And got a new quote. And they're like, yeah, like this is an effing nightmare. Like all we can do is like laugh isn't the right term, but you get the concept. Like all we can do is laugh is like, how about today? Yeah. And they're like, here's what we're going to do. This thing's paused. We're just going to charge the regular price without any tariffs. And if something changes between now and delivery, like we'll just eat it. And like, you know, I respect that. Like that is not an easy, like it's not easy for them to manage this. It's not easy for me to manage this. Yeah. I mean, like I'm not making any decisions on Richard 51. But like I think about this is like a lot of companies I'm seeing say that kind of stuff. Like Kickstarters that are outstanding and things like that. I don't think that people should be saying that. Like I'll just eat it. Like. Well, they may not have said that like directly. Maybe it's like, it's like, we'll just deal with it as we come. Like, because what do we do? Are we going to, should we just stop? Like, you know, what is their other option? It's like, we're just going to have to do with what we can do today. Yeah. And then we'll figure out how it goes. But yeah, like the companies can't eat it. Right. Yeah. Like they're not saying it like that. So I don't want to misspeak there. I don't want to put that on them. But like, yeah, you're correct. Like companies can't afford a change three months down the line that they're not prepared for today. Especially at any size for a small business. Right. And I look retro 51 is a small business. They're not some huge conglomerate type business. You know, I'm a smaller business than they are. You're a smaller business than they are. But that's still a small business with probably, you know, I don't even know. Single digit employees, maybe 10. I don't know. That's a small business. So there's a thing that I keep thinking of. So what's making me think of that is Peak Design.
  • Right. They have their Roller Pro suitcase going on right now. It's probably the biggest Kickstarter of all time all way up there. They've raised 9 points. They've raised, sorry, $13 million in this campaign right now. Right. And in their FAQ, they're like, what about tariffs? And they're like, oh, we'll cover it. Right. But, I mean, I don't know where they're having these things made.
  • Right. But, I mean, if the tariff is 140% or whatever. Oh, I can talk about this. You can't just eat that. You can't. And, like, I don't know where they're having them made. But, like, I know, I'm seeing this kind of stuff from a lot of companies right now, especially in Kickstarter phases. And it's like, it's, I don't know. Like, there's something about it where I'm like, I don't, I just don't know right now if you can confidently state that. Like, it just seems really risky to me to just be like, I don't worry about it. You know? Like, I mean, Kickstarters in general are going to be really, really complicated for this time. Like, Kickstarter campaigns that have closed and could have closed a long time ago and the products are still being produced. Like, there's going to be, I think I saw a headline on The Verge about this today, which is essentially, like, get ready to pay more for your Kickstarter campaigns. Sure. Yeah.
  • Yeah. So, can we, let's, let's talk about this from a spoke design perspective real quick because we, our pens are manufactured in China right now. So, just to lay out, like, the design process of spoke, we design and create original pens, right? Brian is an engineer. Brian Cad draws out all this, all these pens and all these designs. And so, all the designs are ours. And then we've gotten them quoted all over the world, you know, from places in the U.S., Vietnam, you know, China, and figured out, like, who could make the best. And Brian, given his past career in engineering and manufacturing, like, he's got a lot of experience with working with factories and understanding, like, the machining capabilities that we need, right? We're a very detailed, intensive machining process for the pens that we make. So, we have some good partners that we've worked with for years. And we're not all, like, different factories make different parts for our pens. And over the years, we've made some parts in the U.S. Like, I remember, like, at one point, we made our nose cones in the U.S. But, like, all our pens are kind of modular so we can move around and make pens from, you know, all over the place. Whoever makes them the best is where we're going to make them. And at a fair price, at a reasonable price that we think we could sell the pen for, right? So, you know, in the U.S., at the time we were doing this, it was very expensive to make our product. And, you know, it would still be if we moved to a factory in the U.S. or built our own factory. In some cases, Myke, we might just do that. It's easy. It's easy. We're just, like, probably next week we'll have our factory built.
  • But, like, the idea that we could just up and move is pretty tough. So we've been planning for this since probably mid-year last year where we invested more in inventory, not knowing what was going to happen this year. So, like, we're fine now, like, as far as, like, products and inventory. And we can keep releasing new stuff. And, you know, we had some foresight in that aspect. But long term, I don't know, like, what's going to happen. Are we going to move? Are we going to find someone that can do it as well for, you know, a reasonable price? Like, I'm sure we'd be fine raising the price to some point. But, you know, if we stayed, like, manufacturing China, who knows? Like, that doesn't seem like a viable thing for us right now. So we're just waiting and seeing. Like, we're fine. The good thing kind of I alluded to with some of the other small business that feel more pain, like, this is neither of our only thing that we do. Right. It's a small percentage of what we do. So we can afford to wait and see. And we planned ahead to kind of manage this. But then I look at someone like Tactile Turn, who's done a great job of building in the U.S. And, like, I applaud them for that. And, but I wanted to, like, discuss, like, if Spoke was trying to move to a factory in the U.S., let's say Tactile Turn did a white label, right? And they were open to using us. Well, this doesn't mean everything's all hunky-dory with tariffs and the added cost because where does the metal come from? Yeah. Where are the magnets sourced? Where are the springs sourced? Where does the machinery come from? Where do the parts to repair the machinery come from, right? It's this whole supply chain that's affected, not just, hey, make your pin here and everything will be better. And, of course, you know, a 10% increase, say, on the material does not then equate to the same levels if you're importing a fully complete product. And putting 10% on top of it. Right. So, like, it's still an effect. It's less of an effect, but it's still an effect. And if every component is somehow touching somewhere with a tariff, it's going to increase the cost of things. So, even if you're doing what the U.S. government want you to do, which is make in America, it does not mean that you will be free of this. Right. Which is the problem, right? Like, in the spoke example, we don't order pins, right? We order parts. And different parts can dump from different places. We do all the design and all the assembly here. Like, we put everything together. We'll get, like, a box of barrels from one place and a box of caps and a box of clips. And all this stuff has to be assembled by us. So, yeah, like, to your point, it's like, oh, it's like, okay, well, we can move it. Well, guess what? We make a lot of titanium pins. How much is that going to cost now? And where are these magnets source from? You know, like, because we use a lot of magnets in our pins. Like, that's one of our things. Well, that's more expensive now. So, yeah, it's not simple to just, like, flip a switch and do that. So, it's something we're looking at. Something, you know, we're always thinking about. And, you know, luckily we had some planning and we thought of it. So, let's take this into, like, the stationery retail market. And that manufacturing supply chain affects everything we get here in the U.S. and around the world. Mostly, this is an import situation in the U.S. from other pin manufacturers. You know, the Japanese manufacturers, the European manufacturers are all going to be hit with different price increases. Oh, where do you think they get their boxes from, Myke, you know, for the packaging? And, you know, where do all these little pieces come from? So, I think probably for the next year or so, we're going to see, like, slight increases. Everything's going to start being more expensive, right? It's just going to happen. And I don't see any other way around it. Like, we're going to, I put a link in here and we can kind of lump this in here. Sailor went up on a bunch of prices that I missed, like, a couple months ago, like, pre-tariff. Like, they had a price change for, like, a gold increase, right? Every company is going through this right now. And it's going to affect some a lot. It's going to affect some a little. I don't know. It's going to affect the consumer the most, right? That's what this all boils down to. It's going to affect you and I and the listeners of this podcast the most. Because this is, like, this is not a, you know, a mandatory thing that we need to be buying, right? This is, like, incidental funds that we use to spend on our hobby and make our lives more enjoyable, right? So, like, these are the types of things that will get cut out of budgets as literally everything is getting more expensive right now. So, I think it's going to be a tough year in the stationery business as a whole. I'll try to check in with some retailers and some small businesses to see, like, what their feedback is later in the year. Like, right now, like me checking in right now, I'm literally going to get a sea of emails that says, I don't know, right? Yeah. But we can check, like, in the summer or the fall and see what has happened, what has changed, where the small hits turning into bigger things and affecting these businesses' bottom lines. And I don't want to say it's going to be interesting to watch. It's going to be painful to watch, and, like, I hate it, and this sucks, and there's not much we can do about it today. So, we'll think about what we can do for the future. So, yeah. What else should we talk about here? I was going to say, I think, you know, you mentioned, like, people said, I don't know, whatever. And I think the uncertainty is what is actually just going to be the problem here. My feeling on this is the 10% will probably remain unless companies, countries, strike some kind of deal with the U.S. government, which really, it seems like all of this is just to get some fun deals made, you know, because we'd love to make a deal.
  • But I don't think that the super high tariff, any of those, will last. I don't think that it's going to be a thing that exists. I agree. And then this whole thing, all it did was just create a bunch of uncertainty for a few months. And, like, that will be the lasting impact of it. And it's like, what was the point of doing any of this? And it seems like one of the biggest reasons to do it was, for whatever reason, was to do something with the U.S.-China relationship. Yep. But I think it seems to me, as just a person who reads the news, that that was significantly... The hand was overplayed because China just said, we don't care. Yeah, we're good. And I think that wasn't the expectation of how this was going to go. And it has kind of rattled the government, it seems like. Like, that's my read on it. Like, they weren't expecting China to fight back as hard as they have. And it's now kind of hit this impasse. And it seems like China's not going to back down because why would they? And so now what? That kind of seems like where it is from my just layman's reading. And so where I think this ends up ultimately is this is a bad period of time where a bunch of bad stuff happened. And we come out of it actually not that massively different in the long term from where we were before it started, which just begs the question of what was the point? But I don't know. We'll see, right?
  • We shall see. So, yeah. And, like, it's the thing, like, in COVID times, and this isn't really a stationery commentary, but more of a large corporation commentary. When those prices go up, man, they don't come back down. They just make more profit. And that's the stuff that kills, like, us, like, kills the consumer long term. So, you know, where should we, as stationery consumers, focus, you know, focus on, you know, like, small brands, you know, local made if you can, you know, be aware and observant of, you know, some of the challenges, like, the companies you shop for are going through. Understand, like, you know, things are going to be changed. Be patient.
  • You know, I'm, I think I'm positive long term because it's so nonsensical, but it doesn't feel good. I tell you, like, none of this feels good.
  • But, like, I'm trying to stay positive. And, you know, just from our industry perspective, like, I really like seeing, you know, things like Little Craft Fest this past weekend in Houston, like, went super well. It seems like, you know, a lot of stationery, a lot of small makers. You know, we have the Chicago Pen Show this weekend. I'll be interested to get some feedback from people there, you know, how it's affecting the broader stationery economy. Right now, it still seems okay. But, yeah, like, we just don't know. And that's a bad place to be. The uncertainty is not fun. Not ideal. I say this is one of those things where, not to be smug, but I'm very happy about the decisions past me made about where my products are made.
  • Yeah, for sure. You know, we could have made our stuff much cheaper in China, a Cortex brand, but it's not what I wanted to do. Yeah. But the majority of our stuff is made in the UK, and the UK has the lowest tariff. And we had also been, like you, like, it was obvious that something was going to happen. I didn't know what it was, but it was clear, if you were paying attention, that there would be something going on.
  • And so we've kind of just been, like, mentally preparing, really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we're getting ready to launch a new product next week, and we got hit by a tariff, which is a bit annoying. But it's just, it basically was, if the shipping would have taken, like, it would have been two days faster. It wouldn't have happened. But such is life. Yeah. It's so stupid right now. Such is life. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, you know, choosing where to make things, like, it's tough. Like, it's a balance of cost and quality, right? That's what, like, small makers like us look for. Like, can I make a really good product, and is the price fair? Right? Yeah. Like, if the price is cheap and the product is crap, like, when you're making bad decisions, or if the, you know, the product is so expensive, like, no one can afford it, even though it's, like, premium. Like, ah, that's tough. So, it's hard to find that balance of where to make things. I mean, like, for me, it was just a case of inexperience, right? Like, because I'm new to this still, I feel, even though we've been doing it for years now, but just, I don't, I feel, I still feel very new to it.
  • I wanted to get these products made in a place where I could just go see them as they were being made. Yeah. And so, that was why we ended up making them in London. So, this is all we have for right now.
  • Yeah. Like, you literally, y'all, like, literally learn nothing. Yeah. Like, this whole time. It's, like, crazy. But I just wanted to give some, like, personal anecdotes of, like, yeah, like, it's a hot mess express is my phrase of the year so far. And, yeah, turned out to be the case. But, you know, I'm still knee deep into this. Like, nothing's, like, changed in my day to day. Like, even from, like, working with retailers and advertisers and things like that. But, like, tomorrow's a new day. And that's the tough stuff. That's the tough stuff. So, I think we've, I've belabored that point enough. But, yeah.

Transition to Canalea Pen Co. and their Hawaii-inspired designs[edit]

  • We'll go again tomorrow and see what's up and do our best. Let's lighten this mood by talking about our next sponsor. Just our wonderful friends over at the Canalea Pen Co. Canalea Pen Co. makes stunningly beautiful pens inspired by images of Hawaii. Canalea's founders, Hugh and Carol, believe that these locations can help recharge our spirit and help us connect with nature. And, as we get the honor of doing many times, we're very excited to get to share information about Canalea's newest release, which is the Papacolea collection. For this pen, Canalea are taking inspiration from Papacolea Beach with its beautiful green sand. So, this beach contains olivine crystals from the volcanic cinder cone that surrounds it. I learned some things here, Brad. About volcanoes. I learned a lot on this one. Papacolea Beach is one of the only four beaches in the world that has sand like this. So, it is something incredibly worthy of being celebrated with this new collection from Canalea. The Papacolea collection features fountain pens and Canalea's five profile options, as well as a ballpoint pen. And you can pair your pen with a hibuscus medallion in your choice of Argentine silver, 14-karat gold-plated silver, or rose gold. But, with this collection, you're able to once again give your pen an extra special touch. With the Maoloa O'Malele band, made of lovingly crafted Argentine silver, it makes this already special pen even more so. These bands feature beautiful details that are a joy to see and hold. I have these bands on a couple of my Canalea pens, and I absolutely love them. It makes them extra special, and I love the way they look, and I love how it feels as they use it. These bands are both available on the classic profile of the Canalea fountain pen. Canalea fountain pens feature Yowoo No. 6 nibs. You can buy steel or 18-karat gold nibs directly from Canalea. They offer sizes from extra fine to 1.1mm stub. Hues smooths and tunes every nib personally before it leaves their shop, to make sure that your Canalea pen will write beautifully straight out of the lovely black walnut keepsake box. With each purchase of a pen from the Papakalea collection, Canalea will be making a donation to the Maui Food Bank and the Maui Humane Society, giving back to the communities that inspire these wonderful designs. You can find out more about Canalea's whole offering and place an order today at canaleapenko.com. Our thanks to the Canalea Pen Co. for their support of this show. So what I'll say about this pen, the Papakalea, it's a design for me, when I first looked at it, I was surprised. I was like, oh, wow, this is a new color. It's mostly green. I was like, this is new from them. I was really interested about it. I was like, what is it that would inspire them to go all green? It tends to be very beach-inspired and very ocean-inspired. And so finding out a little bit about this beach has made this pen so much more special to me as a thing. Knowing the story, again, it just elevates it all. And this is what they're so good at at Canalea. Like, the pairing of the design and the story. Like, once you see the images of the places, you're transported there by admiring their designs, let alone the fact that they're just beautiful pens. And this is just yet another one. It's another rich, deep, layered, textured acrylic. Like, there's so much going on in there. Yeah, just another, I think, another beautiful job from them. So, first off, shout out to you, your Papakalea pronunciation. Let's not assume I got it right, Brad. All right? It just, it sounded nice. But, you know, I would say, shout out to Carol at Canalea Penko, because Carol gives me pronunciation guides. Now, how I do with those, that's on me. But Carol goes the distance. And I'm just repeating, I'm just mimicking what you said, and I feel good about it. So, yeah.
  • Secondly, this color is completely up my alley right now for the types of pens that I'm enjoying. I've actually, so, I have three Canalea pens that I own right now, and I talk about this a lot. The Kona Cherry, which is a red pen. Leva Lani, which is a blue pen. And the Hanama Bay, which is kind of like a teal, yellow, like a really interesting pen. And I've almost, for like the past couple times I've seen them at a show, I've been really tempted to, for the Manta Maualoa fountain pen, which is a green and black swirl. It's got this really cool depth. But I think this one might have usurped that one. And it's because this material is super weird in the best way possible. So, it has like, it's not just the color. Like the color, like I learned about this olivine color and like learned about like the volcanic sand and how this is all made in nature and why this beach is green, which is cool. Like the color like crushed it, like they nailed it. But what this acrylic has is like two separate types, styles of acrylic in there. It's got like the swirl piece, like what you see in like a traditional, like a swirled acrylic, right? You see those little, those bands of swirl. Then in between the bands, it's like a sandbar of like grit, right? Like it's granular. So, like there's a swirl where there's no like grains of sand in it. Then there's like granular acrylic that runs through it. And it's tripping me out in like a really, really good way. And I can't stop looking at the different sections of the pen where they kind of, they don't intersperse. Like it's, it's a, it's a very, very cool way that this is, this is made. And I really like this material a lot and I love the color. So now I'm just thinking like, it's been hard to not ink up this pen because I want to get it right the first time. Do I go with a, like a green and olivine green? Do I go with like a blue, like the ocean? Or do I go with a pink, which I always love putting in green pens? But this one, I'm, I'm really, really happy with this one. Yeah. It's a very, very unique design. And like they, they're really doing some, they've been for years just doing really interesting things with the, with the way that they're producing these pens. And like the way these acrylics look, they are very, very special. Like the effect. One more thing. As soon as I took it out, I was like, wow, that is different. You know? Yeah. One more thing. And I don't think I said this already. I'm not a band person. This one screams for like, this is a band platform pen. Yeah. As opposed to like some of the other ones, which, you know, it fits the concept of, of the, the band offers. Yep. The My Lele.
  • And, oh, I forgot the other one. I'm blanking on it. The wavy one. Maualoa. It fits that concept as good as any pen that they've released. I like the more solid colors, like the singular color range. And then the band on top of it is my taste, even though I don't do the bands. They both work really well too, like color wise. Cause like the My Lele band has kind of like, like leaves. And it's like, you know, it's like, it's a lei, right? So it's meant to evoke that kind of like leaf design. And it was green, right? So it goes with that. And then the Maualoa is waves and this is a beach. And so the waves would be the ocean. So like thematically it fits really well. I just, I love those bands. I think the bands are extra good. Something that I found from interesting from the notes that Carol gave me. So the olivine crystals that are make up the sand in a refined form is Peridot. Okay. The gem Peridot. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just a piece of information for you. There you go. This is good stuff. Good stuff. Learned a lot with this pen. Thanks to Canalea Penco for their support of this show.
  • All right. You want to hit a couple of STPA and then we'll wrap it up this week. This one comes from Janine who says, I just want to ask if I'm being too hard on my pens recently or if others have noticed a quality decrease in Twisby, specifically in the acrylic bodied pens. My last one just developed a major crack in the barrel. That's four that I've lost in the last few years, but they didn't break in the order I bought them. The newest two both cracked within a year. The first one cracked somewhere between those two, which would make it five years old. The recent casualty was also five years old, and it was the second that was owned. Yeah. I don't push this under the rug that Twisby has problems with. It used to be much more prevalent than it is today. Yeah. It used to be much more prevalent. Again. Yeah. And maybe Janine uses her pens a lot more than my Twisby's. I've literally never had a Twisby crack, right? And other people haven't had a Twisby crack. Other people have had four crack. Like Janine. Janine is not an outlier here. So, like, at some point, I'm just going to not buy a Twisby, which I think people who have had more than, like, two problems with the pen, like, just write them off. And I think they're right to do that, right? Like, I am not in that position. I haven't just been burned over and over again, but I'm also not heavily using them every day, like, all day, every day. Maybe I would also experience this too, right? So, there's that context. In which, like, the pen should last longer than the five years that, that Janine has had the, like, two of them fail. And then another one, another two failed within a year. It, it, it sucks. It's a Twisby thing. Like, this has been historically a thing. Um, which, I'm curious, I'm mostly curious, like, which barrels, um, like, is it more on the eco style or more on the, on the, uh, 580 style? Um, I'd just be curious to hear, but yeah, like, it's, it's part of Twisby's thing, unfortunately. Like, I, my only advice is to stop buying Twisby's. If you continue to experience problems, you are not alone. Um, yeah, I, there's no sugarcoating it, right? I like my Twisby's. I use my Twisby's. I haven't had problems. I don't use them all day, every day to where I might run into this a little bit more. It's like for me once, shame on you kind of thing, right? Yes. Yeah. Eric wrote in to say, I know you mentioned ages ago that you used a notebook for OOTP baseball out of the spark. Yeah. Look at you. Or OOTP. Some people just call it straight up OOTP. Okay. Which isn't like actually correct, but this, the way Eric has written this tells me a lot about where I think Eric lives in the world. The next sentence, what all did you record in there? That is incredibly Southern to me. Yeah. Like I hear this, I hear this a lot. Uh, what all did you record in there? I would love to hear more about that. Uh, mama them. Uh, yeah. So I do this for a lot of video games that involved, like, say like not OOTP, but like a crafting game, you know, recipes, things. OOTP was like a lot of contracts and you have to think, no OOTP out of the park is basically a text for all intents and purposes, a test text base game, uh, in your world would be like a F1 manager, Myke, or a football manager, I think is a very popular, um, like it's a basically a management sim for baseball. And it's, it's, it's been around for a couple of decades. Like it's, it's got a long, long history. It's one of those games. 1999, according to Wikipedia.
  • Yep. So really popular, still really popular to this day. And you just like, when you're managing, when you're the general manager of an organization, you're not just dealing with players in this game, right? You're dealing with everything, um, that like, I just write stuff down. Like right now I'm, I'm not playing OOTP. I haven't played it in years, probably about four or five years, but like I'm playing path of exile. That's another very complicated game. Literally yesterday I wrote down a couple of pieces. I wrote down like two pages in my notebook of things I'm looking for. Right. So I just do that all the time on games that are longer term. Right. Um,
  • so yeah, it's just another way to use stationery. Um, I know, I think you've, have you used notebooks for gaming before? Oh yeah. I know we've talked about this. Yeah. We've talked about this in the past. It's a, it depends if it's a game that needs it, like an RPG or something. Like I know a lot of, there's a game going around right now called blueprints, which is really good. Yeah. And lots of people using notebooks for blueprints. I haven't been able to, because the way I'm playing games right now is very weird. Um, so I'm kind of playing a lot of video games with a baby on me. So like I've not really got the freedom to use a notebook. Uh, so I've just been taking pictures of things I see in the game on my phone and like saving them in an Apple note. Um, but yeah, gaming, gaming journals, as people call them. Big thing. Yep. Um, I actually did a, did an episode, um, uh, talking about, uh, gaming and journaling.
  • So yeah, I'll have to find that episode number. Of this show?
  • Uh, I can't remember if it was friend of the show or this show. I'm blanking now. Yeah. We lost, we lost Brad. He's broken. Yeah. I'm halfway reading the, uh, reading the chat right now. Cause Jackie is the one person that got what I said. Uh, and she's Southern. So yeah, there we go. All right, let's hit this last one. This is from not anish Kapoor.

Inquiry about the blackest black ink options[edit]

  • He says, I'm looking for the blackest black ink. I know when one cannot get Vantablack as fountain pen ink, but what is the closest I can get?
  • Um, it's, uh, platinum Chokuro, platinum Chokuro. I have a link. Uh, we'll put a link in the show notes to my review. It is. It's definitely the blackest black ink. Um, it's pigmented ink. It's a strong ink. It performed very well in my pen testing. Like it didn't, you know, negatively affect the pen that much.
  • Um, man, that images. Wow. Yeah. Like so the nano black essentially just looks gray. Right. So platinum carbon black was one that people would say is like, Oh yeah. Platinum carbon black. And you put it next to this. It's like, no, no, no, not really. If you want a non pigmented or non permanent type ink, Aurora black is usually just kind of like the best black writing. Ink. But if you want, um, you just have to pay a little bit of attention to using that pen. Like if you put Shokuro in it or even like carbon black or nano black, like if you don't use that pen for a couple of weeks, you need to clean it. Right. Like it's just going to like crust up and be harder to clean. Like, I don't think it's necessarily going to damage your, your pen. And, um, it's, it's, it's a, it's a really good, it's really expensive. It's like $60 a bottle. But like, if you're looking for the blackest black ink and that you can actually use in a fountain pen and, and get some joy from it, uh, platinum Shokuro is a very, very good.
  • If you would like to send in a question of your own for us to answer in a future episode of the show, it's very easy. Just go to pen addict feedback.com. You can send us in your ask TPA questions there. You can also send up, send in your followup, your feedback, and we can address those in future episodes too. Uh, I would like to once again, thank Canalea Penco and camera industries for their support of this week's episode. If you want to find Brad online, go to pen addict.com, spoke design.com, twitch.tv slash pen addict. Uh, you can find me over at cortex brand.com. We are launching the sidekick pocket next Tuesday. Um, I'm going to be streaming, uh, I'm going to be doing a stream of my own on Tuesday. Um, what would it be? 12 PM U S Pacific, 3 PM U S Eastern, 8 PM British summertime, where I'm going to be going through the process of, of designing that and kind of talking about that product a little bit. So, uh, I'll put a link in the show notes for the YouTube stream. If you want to come and hang out, but, uh, yeah, I'm looking forward to finally getting this product out there. Another thing that has been, uh, in the works for like well over a year at this point, because that is just how these things tend to go. No matter how prepared you feel like you might be. Um, anyway, uh, yeah. Thanks so much for listening to this week's episode. We'll be back next time. Until then say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad. The movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie movie
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