The Pen Addict 604/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	604
Title:	Hi Cliff
Release Date:	February 28th, 2024
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 604
Audio File:	Audio Episode 604
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 604
Length:	6363 min <br />1.05 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 604. Today's show is brought to you by Pen Chalet and Ooni Pizza Ovens. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Hey Myke, how's it going today?

Myke Hurley: I'm really good, how are you?

F1 season and pre-game discussion

Brad Dowdy: I am really good as well, probably because it's race week. I mean, it is because we're talking about pens, but it is raw geek.

Myke Hurley: It's raw geek.

Brad Dowdy: So we had our little pre-game, that's pretty much all we talked about, was the upcoming F1 season. So yeah, make sure you follow Myke's work over at The Backmarkers and we'll put some links in the show notes for that this week. Y'all do, you and Austin do quarterly check-ins?

Myke Hurley: I mean, at this point, it's kind of just become a few episodes a year for the season.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, whenever the drama happens, if we need to talk, which means you might have two or three episodes in the first week.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot going on right now, to say the least.

Drama in the pen world

Brad Dowdy: But hey, we don't let F1 have all the fun with the drama. We have our own drama here in the pen world. And let me tell you, I'm pretty much done with talking about Lamy Dark Lilac. And I think probably a lot of the listeners are.

Myke Hurley: We're not done because we're going to talk about it. But before we actually get to the new goings on, so we're sitting down on the sofa, I think over the last weekend. And Adina's like, oh, one of our friends, she sent me this TikTok about Lamy drama. And I'm like, oh my God. So it had found its way into the TikTok algorithm and is serving this drama. And the TikTok is positioned around this side. She sent it because she knows that I do this, right? But the drama is centered around the craziness that there could be drama in the fountain pen community. That's how it begins. But this person was a pen creator, but that was kind of like the way they positioned this TikTok as it was like, oh, look at this pen people crazy about an ink. So that's where we are.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that is where we are. And hopefully this is kind of the last time. Hopefully this is probably the last time I talk about it. Although I will be getting a bottle of Lamy Dark Lilac at some point just because it's going to be a good ink. It's a good ink regardless. But long story short, and then we'll do the long story long. Long story short, the Lamy Dark Lilac 2024 edition is officially different than the original 2016 edition. And that is where it's coming from Lamy. So Fountain Pen Memes on Instagram has done an exceptional job of tracking this.

Myke Hurley: They've been putting in the footwork, Brad. They have.

Brad Dowdy: They've been pounding the pavement. They've been being the journalist in this situation.

Myke Hurley: Some real Clark Kent kind of work happening over there at Fountain Pen Memes. Asking people in... Which you wouldn't expect from an account called Fountain Pen Memes. But nevertheless, here we are.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so there's basically three posts you can follow. So I'm calling it How It Began, So Exciting, and then Oops is kind of how this whole thing goes. So how it began is pretty much what you heard on last week's show. I'm not going to rehash everything. It's Lamy actually created an ink called Dark Lilac that they launched in the European market first, but it's coming worldwide. And you can, like I said, you can go back last week and figure out why that's like a big deal in our little world. There was a previous ink from 2016 that everyone loved, and it became rare and highly sought after and very expensive. So Lamy had the grand plan to come out with a new Dark Lilac, and everyone wants to know, is this the same? Is it different? The best part of the week for me was when Fountain Pen Memes talked to Lamy USA's distributor. And basically said, hey, you know, here's the question. Is 2024 Dark Lilac the same color formulation as 2016 Dark Lilac? Lamy USA says, yes. So that's a very important question that Fountain Pen Memes ask is not just the same color, but formulation. And then, you know, we go through the other questions. Is Dark Lilac worldwide standard product? Yes, it's a standard product. Is it the same ink as the Blackberry Violet, which we're going to talk about later in the show, which is the 2024 Lamy Special Edition ink? It's no, it's not the same. And there you go. So that's part two. So, hey, it's the same ink. Until it isn't. Yeah. So Lamy USA, literally, I believe the same day, because this is when I got a text with this new email in, directly from Lamy, Lamy, the mothership in Germany.

Brad Dowdy: I'm going to read this whole thing. So this was an inquiry, which we never see Lamy. I can't believe they answered this question, to be quite honest. So you can. At this point, yeah, I understand. They've caused their own problems. Yeah. They've caused their own problems here. After your mail, I checked again with the persons actually producing our inks, and they confirmed that we tried to produce exactly the same shade of ink, dark violet, as in 2016. However, the red dye we use, then, is not available anymore. So there is indeed a slight difference between the shade in 2016 and the new one.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Please pass on this information and apologize in our name for the incorrect reply yesterday. That's a very German response. I love that. I love that one. I love that. I love that. So again, if you don't care, all you need to know is this is not the same ink. I will say it looks pretty good. It looks really good. It looks very close. It is clearly not the same when you put them side by side. At least I can tell immediately they're not the same. But it's a good-looking ink. I'm just glad we have this clarification. Why are you not surprised they put out this information publicly?

Myke Hurley: Just because it's gotten to be too much of a thing now. And I think at the point where any official representative spoke on behalf of LAMI, which LAMI USA did, at that point, LAMI Germany, if they have additional information, need to communicate it. Because I can see what's happened here. The plan was we are recreating Dark Lilac. That was their plan, right? And that is what has been communicated within the company. But then just during production, they're like, oh, we can't do this. We'll do a different ink then and we'll get close. And so to them, it's like, well, this is the same thing, right? You can see how that becomes a thing of inside of the company. Like, we want to make Dark Lilac. Again, this is as close as we can get. We're going to call it Dark Lilac. The formulation is the same, except we have to use the different inks, right? So that they're going for the same thing, but it's a slightly different color. Like, slightly different. So they're like, this is Dark Lilac now. We've done it. And this goes back to exactly what the title of last week's episode. Do not attribute to malice that which could be attributed to other people. Not caring as much as you do about that one hyper-specific thing. That is Myke's razor, right? This is what we've got going on over here on the Pan Addict now. And I think this is an exact example of what I'm talking about.

Brad Dowdy: Well, Lami found out that we did care.

Myke Hurley: But, yes. But, like, do you know what I mean? They set out to do something, and they got close to the way that they thought they should. You know what I mean? Like, this to them was like, we've done it, gang. We got there. We had to make a compromise along the way, but we got there. Did we, though?

Brad Dowdy: Did we actually get there? That's my hang-up.

Myke Hurley: Well, for them, they did, though, Brad. Like, that's what I'm saying. That's the problem. For Lami, they're like, this is Dark Lilac now. You've surely been in this situation where you have had a production run where you've had to make a slight tweak. You continue selling the product as it is. And in your mind, you're like, no one's really going to notice this except for me.

Brad Dowdy: The problem is this is such an own goal. Yes. Right? It didn't have to be this way. If this was a standard lineup product that changed, I would have, we would not be talking about this. But this was arguably the most popular product they've made in a decade that was limited and not widely available. And they said, hey, look, same thing. Look over here. Look over here. And it wasn't. And, like, it's just so self-inflicted. Like, it's, like, why isn't... It's an own goal. Yeah. It's an own goal. Why isn't this called... This is back to my Tomoe River thing. Why isn't this called Lami Dark Violet? Like, you would save, like, all of the drama. Right? Dark purple. Dark violet. Anything but Dark Lilac.

Myke Hurley: What? We don't have all of these conversations. You know why. You know why.

Brad Dowdy: I know why. I know why. Because this was a really popular product. Because it happens in a marketing meeting.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. They want to benefit from the popularity of their own product. Right? Which they can't. It goes back to Uniball and the Kuretaga dive. Right? They increased the price of the product because they wanted to benefit from the fact that people were scalping it. And so it's like, why should someone else be making more money from our product? Right? This happens all the time. Like, we're seeing it with Nintendo now. Completely different thing. It is expected now that the Nintendo Switch will now launch in March of 2025 because they don't want scalpers to buy up the product. They want to have enough product available that they can flood the channel. And so that they can benefit from people wanting that thing. Like, this happens all the time. Like, this isn't me. Like, I'm not, like, you know, going to shill for this corporation. No. I'm just talking about, like, I think too often people, like, they blame, like, oh, the bad corporate. It's just a bunch of people and they're just trying to do something, you know? And, like, I guarantee you the high ups probably didn't even know about this. Like, they didn't even know that it was a different red. Like, some product manager decided it somewhere, right? And they were like, oh, it will do.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Guaranteed. Guaranteed. All right. So, last point on this, which I meant to make last week and then I forgot because we got so busy laughing at ourselves for this.

Brad Dowdy: Because I do think it's completely silly. But it's fun to talk about. The last point is there is never a need to hoard special edition inks because companies will do this. It's been proven time and time again. And I've gotten caught up in it with Sailor Apricot. Was the first time I realized. It's like, oh, this is my favorite ink. I need three bottles of it because it's going away. Well, then they keep releasing it, like, every few years. Yeah. Either that ink or similar ink. You just don't need to hoard special edition inks because there's always going to be something that's close, if not identical. And a lot of times from the exact same company that made it the first time. So, that's your PSA for today. You don't have to hoard inks. There's always going to be something else. The amount of inks on the market right now is astonishing. And there's no end in sight. So, there's no need to buy five bottles of an ink because you think it might be going away. Because you're just actually limiting yourself from discovering other fun things that might be just as good or better down the line. And then, all of a sudden, you have four bottles that a company decides three years from now to re-release the exact same formulation of. So, there you go. Brad's PSA of the day.

Pen recommendations for a new job

Myke Hurley: Good PSA. A couple of weeks ago, Eric wrote in to ask for a recommendation. They got a new job. They got a pay rise. And they wanted to pick up a new pen. Eric has all steel nibs. They have Y Studios, Caran d'Ache 849, and a Monteverdi Strata. They were looking for something new to celebrate. And you would like to make some further recommendations.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so I was actually having trouble answering that question because I got really hung up on the gold nib aspect of this. And that precluded me from mentioning maybe the most perfect pen to meet the thin and heavy requirement. And that's the Auto Hoot Design 03, which is one of my favorite pens. It's a skinny, heavy pen. It does not have a gold nib. But it is an amazing nib, an amazing writer. And that kind of fits the category. And if you just look at Auto Hoot as a brand, you can maybe find something else. If you don't like the 03, there's some other thinner pens and some gold nib options.

Myke Hurley: Eric didn't ask for a gold nib. We were thinking about that, right? The way it was written made me. We feel like that's what we would want to suggest.

Brad Dowdy: Like, I want to come with the step up answer. And I was having a tougher time with that.

Brad Dowdy: Waldman's another brand that Kimberly yelled at me for not mentioning. Um, she's the Waldman super fan. And she's right. They have a lot of the skinny, heavyweight barrels and gold nib options. So if you just look at that overall as a brand, there's some shapes in there. Um, but I am such a design 03 fan. And that's probably like the exact answer. Giving the Y studio and Karen dash 849 love, I would move straight into the design 03 and never look back. So that's just, uh, something I wanted to, to, uh, revisit because I knew there was something in there that I just couldn't pull out at the time I was answering that question. So, uh, I wanted to follow that one back up. So there you go.

Review of the Navalo Ikaku pen

Myke Hurley: You published your review of the Navalo Ikaku, which is a pen that we've been talking about a bunch of the last few weeks. You know, I feel like you'd kind of given the majority of your feelings that are in the review on the show as I kept prompting you for it. But I had a question in reading through the, the article that I didn't really feel like I necessarily got an answer to. Maybe you don't have an answer to it because it's a complicated question. And my question for you is if you had $700 to spend on a pen, would you choose this pen?

Brad Dowdy: So I call this question, the reviewer's dilemma.

Myke Hurley: It's very, it's a very, I will state it is a very unfair question to ask. Like I know that, but this is just where I'm, where I'm a little hung up on this proposition is that I'm just not, I don't, I want you to tell me basically like, is this the place to put that money? Cause you could get a similar pen, I feel like from a lot of brands. And so this is just where I'm hung up a bit on, on Narwhal moving into this, this category. Right.

Brad Dowdy: And this is why it was difficult to write this review. I'm going to answer your question very directly and then we will go, we'll discuss it. The answer is no. Okay. I would not, if I had $700 to spend on a pen, this probably doesn't make like the top five and probably the top 10 pens of something I would choose. But where the reviewer's dilemma comes in is that is a very strict, only for me opinion. And it doesn't consider whether there is any technical issues, flaws, mispricing with the pen, which there's not. Like, I think the pen is well-made. I think the price is fair. Like there's really no issues with the pen. And then you also, do you have to say, I also would not spend the money I would choose to spend it elsewhere. Right. I don't know that that, that's why I like having the podcast and other platforms because I think there's one part review, but I have to understand in my review, people want to know, Brad, what decision would you make if you were, if you had this choice to make? And my choice would be, no, I would not spend this money on this pen. And while I was using this pen, I used it for several weeks. I enjoyed every second of it. I kept thinking, it's like, ah, maybe I should ask them, like, if I could buy this pen. And I was like, no, that's like not the best use of my money. Like if I was going to spend that money, I'm going to think about it a little bit more. It would have been like a, uh, like a convenient opportunity for me to email them and purchase this pen. But then when I say, no, I would not spend the money on this pen. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this pen. Right. It's just, that's where it boils down to my personal tastes. Um, and I don't know that I generally don't put that in a review. I will generally talk about whether I like it or not. And then I will call out any technical flaws, like very directly. Right. If I think there's a problem with the pen, I'll say it. If I think it's like, it's priced incorrectly, I'll say that. Like I'm very direct on those types of things. But like, is this pen worth it is only a question I can answer. And everyone has to answer that for themselves. So this is hopefully providing information and I can answer more. And if you say, Brad, would you spend $700 on this pen?

Brad Dowdy: No, like I wouldn't. Unless there was, the problem is there's other opportunities, right? This price point is very expensive, right? This is a ton of money to spend on a pen. I have very few pens that are more expensive than this. Like maybe a handful. And I would just choose, like the list of things I would choose for that amount of money would just be more because there's a couple of minor things that I don't find the value to be in. Like I have a real issue with this clip on this pen in that it's just very, it doesn't feel sturdy to me. It's like, it's thin and it's just not my style. Like I think it aesthetically, it looks fine. But I just kind of can't get over like the thinness of it and that they use it in like, it's fine to use it in other pens, but I've never liked it in the other pens either, right? Like some of their ebonite pens that they use, things like that. You know, if you're spending $700, you know, like literally you could buy almost anything you want, right? You could buy a Nakaya. You could buy a fancy platinum. You could buy, you know, a big sailor. You could buy a lot of custom type of pens. Like you can really kind of like the world is your oyster with this type of money. So you have to very specifically want this pen in this style. And I just think I would spend my money differently. And that's not a knock on the pen itself, if that makes sense. And that's why it's like, it's like difficult to discuss that in a clear, concise way when there is literally nothing wrong with this pen, like whatsoever.

Myke Hurley: So, yeah, I mean, so for me, like one of the, one of the things that I think about, you know, when I look at a pen like this, I don't have many pens like this, like Arushi pens or whatever. And I always go back to like one of my absolute favorite pens, which is not a longer available, which is the 3776 Galaxy Starlight. Right. Which is just truly an incredible pen. And I think it was like $700, like a similar price point. And I'm getting a platinum. Right. Yeah. With a platinum nib and like, you know, it's got like all of that stuff going on. It's just, it feels to me just complicated to look at a newcomer in that space and make that decision. When it, I mean, and also like I just said, this, this one doesn't like massively speak to me. Right. Which is what's going on here. Like it may be if it did, I would feel different, but it kind of doesn't. So there you go.

Brad Dowdy: Like all I can think about in comparison with this pen, and it's not even remotely similar in style or design. Like the Aurora Optima or even the 88. And those are in the, you know, $500 to $700 range. And I just like, I would choose like, you know, one of the Auroras, you know, if I'm going to spend over $500, between say like $500 and $750, you know, you just have Auroras and Pelicans and even Nakias. And then you have like special edition Platinums and Sailors and Pilots. And like, like I said, like there's probably 10 pens I could list out. And, you know, that I would feel more comfortable. And it's a lot of it's what you're saying in the established brand type of thing. But, you know, a lot of people are, you know, not, maybe not as established and are looking at some of the newer brands. And I love that they're doing this. Like I love the pen, you know. But, you know, you're asking like that's a big, big, big ask to get into that price point. So when you have that amount of choice in a price point like that, you can get anything.

Myke Hurley: They can, like, Ikaku can get to that point, right? Sure. Like brands can rise to the point where that's the thing. But that just takes a bit of time. You should say like if there are things where you can point to, which we both point into things in this range and like that ain't right. Like maybe when they fix those things, like maybe if they do a better job of a clip, maybe if they do a better job of integrating the grip section into the design of the pen, like then we start to get to the point where we're like, I'll use one. It feels good. Maybe I'll do it. And then it like grows from there, I guess. Yep. But it takes time.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And they are, one thing I noticed, which I wasn't totally clear on before I started researching the article, that they've done almost 10 releases in about a year at this price point between $700 and $800, which kind of astonished me. So we'll see. We'll see what's up their sleeves going forward.

Myke Hurley: Obviously, the brand has fans, right? And also the pens look good. So that is enough to sell, but it's not yet enough to make you say like, yes, this is where I put my money. But they can get there though, right? Oh, without question. They can get there. Without question.

Myke Hurley: All right. This episode is brought to you by Pen Chalet. If you want to find some amazing pens. I spent my money there recently. You can go there because they have the products that you're looking for from all of your favorite brands. Pen Chalet believe in fast and reliable customer service and giving you the best prices possible. They run special discounts every couple of weeks and they're always adding new styles of pens. Every time you go to Pen Chalet, you're going to find new stuff. You're going to find new products. You're going to find new brands coming on board. They've got everything you're looking for. Whether you want a fountain pen or a mechanical pencil, maybe a bottle of ink or a pen holder for that upcoming pen show. Maybe you want to take pens to it or maybe you want one that's empty so you can fill pens up. Whatever you're looking for, Pen Chalet have got it. Talking about pen shows, have a pen show at home by going to Pen Chalet and just peruse through the incredible offerings that you'll get. They do free shipping on orders of over $75 in the U.S. and they sell internationally with very reasonable shipping rates. Pen Chalet has low prices on high quality pens of a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Go to penchalet.com, P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T.com and click the podcast link at the top of the website and use the password penaddict. This is where you will see the code that you need to save 10% on anything at Pen Chalet along with this week's special offers. What do you got for me, Brad?

Brad Dowdy: So we have a lot of what we've seen before and these are some of the things that I ordered recently. And I haven't received them yet because I did do a pre-order for the Kaweco Iridescent Apricot, which I raved about just a week or two ago when we were talking about the podcast. But they have a lot of inks in here, which you don't normally see on sale. And then a couple of new additions, the Bennu Minima is at a price that is really, really inexpensive. And if you've ever been wondering about Bennu's, this was kind of the model that started Bennu off and became really popular because it's a smaller, like a torpedo-shaped pen. It's a, you know, number five size nib and it's a really, really great price. And then further down below, they still have some of the Caran d'Ache 849s, which I love and I know you enjoy as well. And then they snuck in the Kaweco AC Sport, which it is F1 season, Myke. So why not have a pen with a little carbon fiber inlay on there? It's a very racy. It's a very racy pen. It is ready to get the season underway. Ooh, there's some other Bennu's down here as well. Some of the limited editions, Dragon, Christmas. Ooh, these are all new. I got to check out these. Bennu's Love Little Lark. These are really cool. I love Bennu pens. So there's definitely some neat ones in there as well. So go check them out.

Myke Hurley: All right. Go to check it out yourself right now at penshalet.com. P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T dot com. Click the podcast link at the top of the website and use the password penaddict. Thanks to Pen Chalet for the support of this show and Relay FM.

Brad Dowdy: I'm actually still scrolling. I can't believe how long this list is this week. So good job, Ron.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, lots of good stuff in there.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Shout out of the week, Myke.

Brad Dowdy: Hashtag killwinterwithorange. Our friend Random thinks always takes advantage of the cold winter months and lays out everything orange that they have on their Instagram feed. And it is amazing. I mean, it's pretty much orange year round with Keith. And I appreciate that about him very much. But if you go over to the Instagram right now, we are really focusing on the orange and just getting some fun orangey vibes in this cold winter wherever you are. So, yeah, definitely go check that out. Give Keith a shout out. And by the way, he pops up at a couple of different pen shows with a lot of 3D printed like pen holders and different desk accessories. So really cool. So definitely give Random thinks a follow and check out all the orange hotness over there.

Myke Hurley: By looking at Keith's Instagram, it would seem that Keith lives in perpetual winter.

Brad Dowdy: That's what it looks like. It's orange year round on that feed. But it's especially orange during February. Fair enough. Yep, fair enough. All right, real quick, I'm going to go through all of the new Lamy Safari SEs. You know, we've talked about them a bunch. But I was finally able to get them all in hand. So, as you well know if you're listening to this podcast, Lamy Safari did two colorways this year, Pink Cliff and Violet Blackberry. And within each of those colorways, they did the fountain pen, the rollerball, and the ballpoint. So I have six pens here, one of each style in each of the two colors. On top of that, I have bottles of ink, which is where a little bit of my confusion comes in. I'm going to call them Pink Cliff and Violet Blackberry for now. But apparently their official names are Cliff and Blackberry. They don't have the pink out of the cliff and the violet out of the Blackberry is apparently the name, which, again, Lamy is going to Lamy. But maybe because Pink Cliff is, there's no pink in there. I kind of wish there was a pink ink for this pen, but regardless. So I inked up, I finally just inked up the Pink Cliff Safari fountain pen, extra fine nib. This is my favorite of the two models, the Pink Cliff, because I like the matte barrels, right? So the Pink Cliff is the one with the dark blue matte barrel and the pink finial and the pink grip section. So the pink grip section on the Pink Cliff barrel is also matte to match the blue. Now, if you take the Violet Blackberry fountain pen, that pen also has a lighter color purple grip section with a glossy barrel. The grip is matte, which is fine. But I feel like if we're going to go full matte on the other version, I kind of would have liked to seen full glossy on this version. It's not a big deal. Like, it's by no means a deal breaker. I love the matte. Like, matte's my preferred texture. But this is such a pretty shiny barrel for Violet Blackberry. I would have liked to seen the shinier grip section, I think, which they do. Like, their stock Lamy Safaris, like if you get a red one, a yellow one, a black one, a blue one, they're all shiny. So I know they do that type of finish for the grip section. So I don't know. I would have just liked to have seen some cohesion there in the setup. But it looks great regardless. So the rollerballs are interesting. I think I'm definitely going to review. Like, I won't review a lot of these products, right? Because like, there's only so much I can say about a Safari. I'll do like some Instagram stuff, take some pictures. They all look cool. But if I review any pen, I'm going to review the rollerball because I don't know that I have. I would have to go back and look. And I'll tell you why I'm not choosing the ballpoint here in a second. But the rollerballs are interesting. They use like a medium black rollerball refill. The style on the exterior looks like the fountain pen minus the ink window in the side of the pen. And then the finials have one notch, just like a line across. That's how you can tell the difference between the rollerball and the fountain pen. The fountain pens have like an X or a plus sign across the top. So it's like two lines intersecting where the rollerballs are one line. So I will probably review the rollerball just because I haven't done many rollerball reviews in the past. And the reason I'm not reviewing the ballpoint is because I love the ballpoint and I've already reviewed them and they're great. Like, I think the ballpoint's one of the Safari ballpoints are one of Lamy's underrated pens. Except this time, they borked them up. I don't like what they did with these limited edition ones. Because, again, the consistency and design with each of the rollerballs and the fountain pens, you have the alternate color in there, right? You have the main color, pink cliff, violet blackberry, as your barrel color. And then you have an alternate. In the pink cliff, you have a pink grip section. And in the violet blackberry, you have a purple grip section for both the rollerball and the fountain pen. The ballpoints are flat, just the main color. So the pink cliff is just a blue matte barrel. On its own, it looks great. But you've set me up to have some hit of pink on these barrels. And the ballpoints have neither. Neither the violet blackberry or the pink cliff have any notes of their alternate color. Which, like I'm saying, if you just put out this ballpoint as a standard lineup pen, I would be totally into it, totally love it. But my expectations have been set to have this extra hit of color, like a two-tone color. And the ballpoints are just the single barrel color with black trim and clips and knocks and things like that, just like the other pens. So that design element came in pretty flat for me, even though I am traditionally a Lamy Safari ballpoint lover. I really, really like that pen. So as far as the ink goes, the cliff ink is a blue-black, and it's kind of basic. Like, I think I'm going to enjoy it as a blue-black ink, but I don't know that I'm going to be reaching for it consistently because it's...

Brad Dowdy: Lamy blue-black is already great. Like, I'll probably do a comparison of that ink with Lamy's blue-black. Lamy's standard blue-black is probably a little bit grayer than this, so this is a little bit bluer. So I've inked that in the Lamy Safari Pink Cliff. I really have to think about these names, Myke. It's very complicated.

Myke Hurley: Well, especially because you're now giving it a name that they said it's not. Oh, what did I say?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So the ink, allegedly, is just called Cliff, and sure. Hi, Cliff.

Brad Dowdy: It's a completely fine ink. I think Blackberry is going to be the standout ink color. I have inked that in a Sailor King of Pen to test out, and it has... So the Cliff blue-black ink is a very standard, straightforward ink. If you like a blue-black ink with not a lot of, you know, sheen, or... It's got a little bit of shading, but it is a very straightforward ink where Blackberry has kind of this nice, dark, reddish-grape undertones, very, you know, like a dark, black raspberry, and then has kind of almost a brownish, goldish sheen. A lot of people were seeing copper in the sheen, and it's a very heavy sheener. It's like a... It's like a 90-plus percent coverage sheen on the line is kind of how I rate it, right? How much sheen covers the line when you write your letters on there, and it's pretty much fully covered, you know, outside of a few little parts. So, if you like a heavy sheener, then the Blackberry is going to be for you. I think the color is pretty neat. It's very dark and kind of moody, and I like it a lot. The good thing so far in my quick testing is the sheen dries quickly, right? Like, I will tend to avoid heavy sheeners because a lot of times they don't dry well, and they can be sticky after the fact, and this one is very, very good. It dried pretty quick. I was testing it on Sands and Tomoe River paper. Had no issues. With it smearing after the fact, which you will see time to time from Sheening Inks. So, overall, very positive about this whole lineup. The Pink Cliff Fountain Pen, Safari Fountain Pen is going to be my favorite, and then I will review the Roller Balls probably, and the Inks. So, we'll see from there, but very happy with this lineup. Now, I'm almost to the point of burnout on this lineup. Now that I finally got them, it's like, okay, phew, I can breathe a little bit because I get really amped up about this, and then we had this whole dark lilac situation mixed in between this. I felt like it took away from this lineup a little bit. So, yeah, I'm ready to actually get to using these pens, and we'll see, see how it goes, but I already know I love the pens, and I'm glad they did these colors. I think they're beautiful, and good job. So, let's see what the All-Star can bring to the table this year, which we should know pretty soon. So, they usually announce the safaris in February, and the All-Stars usually don't linger too much further behind, almost like May at the latest. So, we'll get to see the All-Star creations for 2024 here, probably coming soon. It's probably All-Star dark lilac, if I had to guess.

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Brad Dowdy: Yeah, dough is the most experimental part of this whole thing, trying to figure out how you're going to do it. We've always done lots of different things, so I'd be interested what Uni's offering for that. Yeah. Because you know

Myke Hurley: you're going to get good stuff, right? Exactly. So they make balls, they will ship them to you, you can put them in the freezer, and then you can just grab them to frost them when you're ready and you're ready to go. So they have all of this stuff, too. They really are the one-stop shop for making great pizza at home. Listeners of this show can get 10% off their purchase of an Uni pizza oven. Just go to uni.com and use the code PENADDICT2024 at checkout. Uni pizza ovens are the best way to bring restaurant quality pizza to your home. So go to uni.com O-O-N-I dot com and use the code PENADDICT2024 for 10% off. Our thanks to Ooni Pizza Ovens for their support of this show and Relay FM.

Brad Dowdy: All right, Myke. Let me explain a little bit about what you're going to get into and why you're about to get into this. Thank you. All right? So Myke and I are about to do something fun. At least I hope it's going to be fun. So I didn't really lose a bet with a PENADDICT member but they had a little hiccup signing up for membership and there's all kinds of set up, sign up things that things go weird, things go wrong, whatever. So I fixed it for them and we'll call this person Rick because that's their name. So we got everything squared away.

Brad Dowdy: We got everything squared away for Rick and he says, you know, thanks for getting everything squared away. Now this is what I require in return. So I fixed this problem and then he has demands of me. Interesting. It's like, I'm in. I'm in on this. He says, I have bought, this goes into our Uni ad read as well which I didn't realize. I have bought everything except underwear and pizza to support the show. I deserve, I deserve this. All right. He says, I don't like the precedent

Myke Hurley: this is setting, but nevertheless.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, just wait. The next one, the next sentence starts with, I demand, and he put that in quotes. He was being funny. On a soon to be episode that you and Myke each read the names of four to five Orochizuku inks. One of you is Angry Samurai. The other is Hello Kitty. First one to laugh loses. So my reply was, okay, I will accede to your demands minus the voices. We're not going to do voices for this because it's going to go bad enough as it is. We don't need terrible voices for this. So I said, I have an idea and this is my idea to kind of pay off what I owe Rick here with the Orochizuku pronunciations. I thought you and I would have an Orochizuku Inc. draft.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Orochizuku ink draft

Brad Dowdy: So there's 24 Orochizuku Inks. One of us will go first. We'll, I don't know, we'll flip a coin or roll a James Thompson digital dice, you know, one or two to see who goes first. And then we'll just alternate.

Myke Hurley: I have a Pen Addict member chip sitting in front of me.

Brad Dowdy: So let's see here, which side is heads? You should take the Macon, Georgia side. So Macon, Georgia is I pick first and then Pen Addict member you pick first. Yeah. All right. Ready? All right. Yep. Go.

Myke Hurley: Goes to me first.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. So what we're going to do, it's not going to be a snake style draft, which would mean I would pick twice next. We're just going to completely alternate full alternate draft. So let me, before we start this, did you do any prep work?

Myke Hurley: No.

Brad Dowdy: Would you be surprised to know that I did? Of course you did.

Myke Hurley: I don't see, I mean, why would I do the prep work? I have the images in front of me. I'll just pick the ones I like. I know what ones I like. I know what ones I want. Yes. But I haven't tried them all, so I'll just go with what's left.

Brad Dowdy: So I have, I have a full list ranking one through 24. So we'll see how it goes. I'm not beholden to it, but yeah. All right. Your mic's up first in the Pilot Orochizuku Fountain Pen Inc. draft. What do you, what's your first round pick, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Fuyugaki.

Brad Dowdy: All right. There you go.

Myke Hurley: The best one.

Brad Dowdy: Best one.

Myke Hurley: So it's an orange, just the orange one. Yeah. The famous at this point.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. Famous orange. which is why I was okay with going second because I was pretty sure like after, after Fuyugaki, all bets are off. Like, I think I could probably pick your next ink based on what I'm about to pick.

Brad Dowdy: Persimmon,

Myke Hurley: by the way, that's how it's known. Persimmon, yes. In English, I think.

Brad Dowdy: I don't know if these are

Myke Hurley: direct translations, but these are translations for English names.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. Knowing that I'm going to go Shinkai first should become as no surprise to anyone, which is why I didn't mind you going first. I felt like it would, it would be there for me in the second round. Deep Sea. Yeah, Deep Sea. So it's a, it's, speaking of blue blacks, it's a much more moody, character filled blue black. And I already see you writing your next pick in the doc, but that's fine because that's what I would have picked for you. Konpeki. Konpeki.

Myke Hurley: Deep Azio Blue. This was my first Iro Shizuku ink. And I came to this ink because I was looking for something that was, looked good, but dried fast. And that was how I ended up on Konpeki.

Brad Dowdy: It's an amazing ink. What is, so this is a question I don't know the answer to. What is the most popular Iro Shizuku ink and is it probably Konpeki? I don't know. That's a good question.

Myke Hurley: I'm on JetPen's website right now. Mm-hmm. And it has the most user reviews. Okay. And if you sort, they have a sort by popularity. Sort by popularity, though, is second to Takisumi, which is black. Which is

Brad Dowdy: boring. That doesn't matter. That doesn't surprise me. Yeah. I mean, you throw any choice of black ink out, right? Yeah. Black's always gonna win, so it's generally number two. So yeah, I'd say that's accurate. All right. My second pick is not a far reach from Shinkai. And maybe long-term, maybe it's something I move even higher than Shinkai. I don't think I will. But Tsukiyo, I was late to the game on that one. And that might eventually be my number one Orochizuku ink. I don't know. It's hard to beat Shinkai for me. Tsukiyo is what I use in my Namiki Milky Way exclusively, and it's just so perfect. It just means a lot to me as an ink. I think it's really cool.

Myke Hurley: Which one is this one? I'm struggling to find.

Brad Dowdy: So it is, it should be Peacock, maybe, as it's listed. So T-S-U-K-I, it's kind of like a, it probably looks like a blue-green. Oh, Moonlit Night. Moonlit Night, okay, there you go. So not Peacock. Peacock's a different one. Peacock is Kujaku, which is another popular one.

Myke Hurley: Also, Dash, I know we said this already, but I'm going to say it again. Obviously part of the reason we're doing this is because we're going to butcher these names. But we're trying our best. All right? We're trying our best out,

Brad Dowdy: yeah. What's sad is the Orochizuku inks are much easier to pronounce than a lot of the other ones we have to.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I think, I find this easier than Jiu-Ban, to be honest. Oh, for sure. Maybe that's a fool's errand here. True, true. Like, I think that it is. We're setting ourself up. It isn't. I'm going to go with next, Tsutsuji. Yeah. Which is azalea. It's kind of like a, like a real saturated pink-purply color.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's a great one. Very popular. So, I'm going to get my orange here because I knew you weren't going to take it so I felt safe leaving it for third. You, Yaki. Clearly the best orange.

Myke Hurley: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. If it was, you would have picked it first round, wouldn't you? All right, let's be real.

Brad Dowdy: No, it's the best orange. There's two oranges. There's two oranges. It's the number, it's the number one orange.

Myke Hurley: Also, again, if we're ranking by popularity, it's below for Yugaki.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. That doesn't surprise me. Fuyugaki is a much stronger, like vibrant ink color. What is the Yugaki translation? I don't have these pulled up.

Myke Hurley: I probably should. Yugaki is sunset.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. And Fuyugaki is persimmon. So, you get a little bit more of the reds in Fuyugaki and you get a little bit more of the yellows in Yugaki, which is what my preference for oranges is. More yellow-based oranges as opposed to red-based oranges.

Myke Hurley: Fair enough.

Myke Hurley: I'm going to go next with Ama-Iro, which is sky. It's a nice blue. It's a good blue.

Brad Dowdy: Very underrated Aroshizuku ink. I'll probably say this about a lot of them. Yeah. Being underrated. You don't hear a lot about Ama-Iro, but when people use it, I always go, oh yeah, that looks pretty spectacular. I have to choose Yamabudo next. Okay. Between it and Tsutsuji, which you already picked, I think those are the two best kind of hot pinks. So, what's the name differences here? So, Tsutsuji is Azalea and where is it?

Myke Hurley: Which one did you want?

Brad Dowdy: Yamabudo is Crimson Glory Vine, which I'm not familiar with that in real life.

Myke Hurley: Wait, Yamabudo? I see wild grapes. I don't understand. Where are you looking?

Brad Dowdy: This one's on the Pen Chalet side. So, yeah. Again, we take no claim to our pronunciation or our translation in this.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, the translation's got nothing to do with us. Where are we? Yamabudo. So, Yamabudo for me. Crimson Glory Vine.

Myke Hurley: I don't know, man.

Brad Dowdy: I don't know. I kind of like that Crimson Glory Vine. Sure. I mean, grapes are like, you know, that's the glory fruit, right? You make the wine. Is it? Seems, I guess, sure.

Myke Hurley: I'm going to go with an ink that I've never seen, but the image I like the color of, Hotaru B, or Hotaru Bai, which is yellow green, which I think maybe I wouldn't like in person, but I like the way it looks in these images.

Brad Dowdy: So, this is one of the newer inks. So, this is the most recent ones, and I think this is the only one of the newer ones that I actually reviewed. It's kind of nice. Like, I am into it.

Brad Dowdy: And, you know, it's one of those inks I wouldn't want to use all the time,

Myke Hurley: but I kind of like it. Also known as Light of Fireflies, which is a great name. That's very accurate. That's a great name.

Brad Dowdy: That is very accurate, I think, to the color of that ink. So, I'm actually going to choose one that I've never used, and this is an oversight on my part because it's been recommended so many times. I have to go with Yamaguri, which is kind of like a brown. It's called Wild Chestnut.

Brad Dowdy: I have to... I need to fix using this. Like, this will be, like, one of the very next things I purchase. Just because I like brown inks, and this always comes up on the list, it's a little darker than maybe, like, a toffee brown, right? It seems like it's got a little bit of darkness to it, depth to it. So, we'll see. We'll see. But that is an interesting ink to me.

Myke Hurley: My next one is one that I'm surprised maybe isn't more popular, which is Hana Ikada, which is cherry blossom petal. It's a very light pink, also known as flower raft of Japanese cherry. I love these names. These names are fantastic. So, yeah. That's my next one.

Brad Dowdy: That's also one of the new ones. So, it came out at the same time as Hutaru B. And I guess this is a good time. You wonder why it's not so popular. I did a quick calculation as I was looking through my list. There are five different pink shades, what I would consider pink shades, in a 24 sample set of Roshizuku inks. Five pinks, five blues, and five greens. So, that's 15 of the inks in like basically three categories of inks. So, you know, it's, there's definitely some differences between these, but I think the pinks have the least amount of range. You know, you have your very hot pinks on one end, then you have like the Hana Ikada, like the very, the light cherry blossom on the other end. So, lots of, lots of pink inks in, in here. I am doing the opposite and going with one of the more popular ones in Kujaku. So, this is Peacock. It's like tealy green, very, very popular ink. It's something I don't use that often because I have some alternates that I use. Like if I'm looking for this color, I generally, what is it? Sailor Yamadori, I think, is similar to this. So, I tend to go with that. But Kujaku is just a classic.

Myke Hurley: So, that is, yeah, Peacock, you said? Okay. Trying to see if we have any other names for it because I'm enjoying that right now.

Brad Dowdy: Let's see. Nope, also Peacock. Peacock. All right.

Myke Hurley: So, we're in the second half of the draft now.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

Myke Hurley: It's probably where it's going to start to get more complicated. Or falling asleep for anyone's first. I'm going to go with Shinryoku, which is a deep green.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. That's a, I'd say, is this the most classic green? Yeah, this is the one that I would say. Forest green or deep green. So, that's the most classic looking green. Like, there's, like I said, there's five greens in here as well. Like, Kujaku, I classify in like the green category as well. This is green. Shinryoku. You know what I mean? Like, the other ones, this is green.

Myke Hurley: They got something else going on. But this one is like, this is green, right? Yes. Peacock is a little bit bluey. There's a couple, like, Light of Fireflies is like a bit yellowy. This is just like, this is a green's green, you know?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, I'm going to go with another green here in the Bamboo Forest, Chikurin. I think this was the third new one out of the three new ones, three new variants.

Brad Dowdy: It's a little bit darker than the Hotaru Bee. And, I don't know, I think it's a unique shade, a unique color. I kind of like it a lot.

Myke Hurley: I don't like it. It's a little bit pusey to me. Like, I'm not... Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I would choose this over, obviously, given my draft, I would choose this over the Hotaru, for sure.

Myke Hurley: All right, my next one, I'm going for a gray.

Brad Dowdy: Which one, though? Fuyu Seogun. Okay. Old Man Winter. I think that's the most popular. Yeah, I think that's the most popular of the grays. Yeah. There is another choice.

Myke Hurley: Also known, Rigor of Winter. I love these name differences. So, we're looking at name differences between Panshele and Jetpans. That's where we're looking. Yeah. And I don't... Maybe one is like a literal translation. I don't know. But this is... I like Rigor of Winter more than Old Man.

Myke Hurley: Old Man Winter.

Brad Dowdy: Old Man Winter. All right. So, I'm next.

Brad Dowdy: I have to follow the wisdom of the crowds here in the Sort By Popularities, Myke. I got to go with Takasumi.

Myke Hurley: Oh, boo. That should have been final round.

Brad Dowdy: No. There's nothing wrong with a good black and this one's pretty good. Every now and then, like, black just... Black just hits right and you want a good black ink to use with your pens and Takasumi is a good one.

Myke Hurley: All right. I'm going for Murasaki Shikibu. Murasaki Shikibu. This is a kind of purpley ink, also known as Lady Murasaki Shikibu, which is just the same thing, which is a lot of fun. What else have we got? Oh, Japanese Beauty Berry. Okay.

Brad Dowdy: This is the one I had the hardest time with. I could have taken this way earlier or way later. I don't know. It's a good purple, right? But it's kind of their only purple, which is weird given the...

Myke Hurley: It depends what your class is purple. I mean, I would kind of call... Tsutsuji and Yamabudo have purplish tones to me. Yeah, they're that magenta range. But this is like how we have Green's Green. This is Purple's Purple. Like, this is just like bang on. You can't miss it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so this is where it starts getting weird. I'm going to take Momiji here, which is Autumn Leaves, but I do find this to be more pinker than Autumn Leaves, even though they want it by name, want it to be more red. I have used Mom... This is more like that Apple red to me. Maybe not like a Fire Engine red, but I do like this ink.

Myke Hurley: Momiji. Does it have a different name?

Brad Dowdy: Let's see. So I've got Autumn Leaves and I've got... Yeah, Autumn Leaves. Autumn Leaves is the name. Just Autumn Leaves.

Myke Hurley: This is very red depending on the image. Right. Like on Penchalet, that's what I think too. It looks red. Yeah. Which I guess you would kind of expect for a leaf more, like maybe.

Brad Dowdy: Right. But like in some of the pictures it looks pink and I don't classify that with Autumn Leaves. I think it is more red in person. I have the bottle of this and I use it pretty regularly and it's definitely more... It's more like a... Like a traditional apple red and you know, I don't know if it gets in that persimmon color, but it's definitely more of an apple, like an apple skin red, like a gala or whatever. I don't know what the regular apples are called.

Myke Hurley: I'm going with Asagal, which is Morning Glory, which is just another kind of like quite deep blue, like a royally blue kind of look, I think. I think that would be pretty good.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Again, just like the pinks and me picking, you know, a reddish pink, the blues, there's just a lot of them and one of them has got to be like towards the bottom and it doesn't mean... A lot of people love Asagal. So, that's a good one. Um, what am I doing here? We're getting down towards the end. It's harder to pick. Yeah, it's getting hard now. Uh, I'm gonna take... Where is it?

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. I have my list, but I don't see it here.

Brad Dowdy: Okay, there it is. There it is. Um, this one's interesting. I think this, this might actually be one of the newer colors and not the, uh, Chikurin. I think it actually might be this one. C-O-R-O is Pine Tree Dew. It's an interesting green. I would like to test this one. Um, it's, I can't quite figure it out just like by images alone, but I think this would be an interesting, along with like the wild chestnut one that I was talking about before, um, to try and test out and see what it's like. It's, um, it's, it's pretty much green, but it has these kind of maybe grayish undertones. So, I don't know. I'll have to figure that one out.

Myke Hurley: Oh, we've only got like four left, right?

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. Uh, one, two, three, four. Yes. Uh, it's good so far. The one I have last, neither one of us have picked yet. So, uh, I think that's pretty telling at this point.

Myke Hurley: Um, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go back to the well here and I'm gonna go with Kozo Musu. Yeah, that's actually what I had next. Full cherry blossom. So, just more, more cherry blossom.

Brad Dowdy: A lot of pinks. There's, honestly, there's, when I got through doing this, I was like, there's really not a lot of variation here in the, in the pinks. I don't believe.

Myke Hurley: Also known as Cosmos. It's very different. Okay. Very different between those two there. So,

Brad Dowdy: I'm gonna take the other gray here, which is, uh, Kirisame, or it's probably like Kirisame, something like that. Um,

Myke Hurley: yeah, I think that might have been the first time you, you really messed up there. I feel like, yeah, your second attempt is probably better.

Brad Dowdy: Definitely, definitely. But when you look at it real quick. So, this one, as opposed to Old Man Winter, this one is Misty Rain. I've got Scotch Mist. Scotch Mist. Nice. Nice. So, lighter than, um, uh, Fuyusu Gun. All right. Uh, two inks left.

Myke Hurley: I don't even know what we've got left.

Brad Dowdy: So, I know one. Where's the other one? So, we have, uh, Sui, Yoku, which is a green. And then we have, Ajisai, which is the light purple.

Brad Dowdy: Hydrangea. And the other one is emerald green. Mm,

Myke Hurley: so, what's the other one? Ajisai?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, Ajisai is the light purple, called Hydrangea. Uh-huh. And then, Sui, Yoku, is emerald green.

Myke Hurley: I'm gonna take Ajisai.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. Yeah. Um, that's the one I had last. Okay. It just seems the least interesting. It just seems like flat. These two aren't very interesting to me, all to be honest. And Sui, Yoku, God, that one might be the hardest to say. If I'm going with that color, I'm gonna pick the forest green, right? Yes. The Shinryoku, right? Yes. Like, I think, like, I'm just not gonna choose this, like, it's so close. Emerald. So, yeah, and then the Ajisai just does nothing, it just looks like washed out blue to me. Yeah. So, it's probably, it's a light purple. Um, you know, maybe in person it looks great, but, like, just looking at these images, like, trying to do a draft off the, off the images here, that one was, like, the least interesting to me by a pretty long shot.

Myke Hurley: I hope this was worth it.

Brad Dowdy: I mean, it was for me, because now I'm actually gonna go buy at least one of these things, if not two. But, uh, it was, it was fun. It was a fun little, fun little draft. I figured it wasn't, it was enough variants here to get a lot of different things and have some conversations about the inks and not too long without us being bored to death. Like, the last couple, yeah, they were tough because there's a lot of redundancy. The more I looked at it, the more I felt, ooh, there's a lot of redundancy in this lineup. I do. For, for an ink, so 24 inks sounds like a lot, but when you look at other ink lineups these days, it's like, yeah, it's not that much. Like, you should have a good spread over 24 inks and they have a lot of overlap, um, in their 24 inks, I find, and probably have a lot of, um,

Brad Dowdy: you know, just, inks that are just, the, eating up the, the, the usage of other inks because they're so similar. So, interesting to see. Interesting to see. So, if you have a favorite Orochizuku ink, Myke, uh, and you want to participate or tell us your top three or five Orochizuku inks, maybe you want to go all 24. How can people tell us, uh, how can people get in touch and let us know how terrible our pronunciations were and also what their favorites are.

Listener feedback and questions

Myke Hurley: You should do is go to penaddictfeedback.com where you can ask us your questions and send in your feedback and follow up about the episode right there if you would like to. Uh, you can also find Brad online. He is penaddict, P-E-N-A-W, I don't need to tell you to spell penaddict. Sure. He's penaddict online. Yeah. You can find him wherever you want to find him. Uh, I am, I'm Myke, I-M-Y-K-E. Brad streams, three times a week over at twitch.tv slash penaddict and you can find his work at penaddict.com and his products over at spokedesign.com You can find me, uh, here on RelayFM and at cortexbrand.com Thank you so much to Uni and Pen Chalet for their support of this week's episode. Until next time, say goodbye, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Goodbye, Brad.