The Pen Addict 59/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	59
Title:	I’ve Never Been So Excited About A Black Staple
Release Date:	June 18th, 2013
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 59
Audio File:	Audio Episode 59
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 59
Length:	5959 min <br />0.983 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: Hello and welcome to episode 59 of The Pen Addict podcast, a weekly show where we discuss pens, paper, and the analogue tools that you love so dearly. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by a man who is milled from a solid block of aluminium, or aluminium as I would say, and turned into a multifunction human. That's Mr. Brad Dowdy.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, I love it. And I'm disappointed. You've clearly been in the US too long. You went straight to aluminium instead of aluminium. Yeah, I know. How was your week in San Francisco?

Myke Hurley: It was really good. I'm now sick, as you would imagine, from such a trip. But it was an absolutely great time. Very busy, a lot of fun, lots of time spent with good friends. It's very sad that you couldn't make it.

Brad Dowdy: I know, I know. Maybe next year. Maybe next year, because everything lined up for me to go except work got in the way. So maybe next year. So I'm looking forward to that opportunity. But I'm glad you had a good time.

Myke Hurley: Thank you.

Field Notes Books

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So there was a lot of good news while you were in San Francisco last week. The one that you and I are probably the most excited about and all of our listeners and readers are most excited about. And the one that's the most obvious thing that we're going to talk about ever is the new Field Notes Colors Edition, the Night Sky Edition. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I'm just going to cut to the chase. I don't have it yet. Mine shipped like last Wednesday or something, the day after they were announced. And I still haven't gotten them yet. But just looking at the pictures and looking at what everyone else has been saying and reading all the specs on it, I'm going to go with I'm Blown Away. This is probably going to be the best edition in recent memory, in my opinion.

Myke Hurley: Do you know what that noise was? Did you get yours already? I got mine.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, you dog. I saw some of the UK subscribers, color subscribers had already started getting theirs. I didn't know you had got yours. Yep. They came today. All right. So you give us the full breakdown here since you've got them in hand and I do not.

Myke Hurley: So it's three books, as you would assume. And each, I'm getting out the other two, because I have one here. So each book has on the back a printed constellation or like a couple of constellations. So they're not all the same. So you've got each, each book has its own one. And what I love most about these is the stars themselves that are in the constellation. So you've got like a, so completely plain black on the front with the gray field notes, right? On the back, you've got lots of like just gray in the same paint that's on the front. You've just got that, you know, lots of little stars and the names printed of the constellations. You have the lines drawing up between the stars, but the stars that are in the constellations are holographic stamps.

Myke Hurley: That's so cool. So as you move them, they shimmer with color and it's, they're incredible. And the, the, even the, uh, the staple is, is painted black.

Brad Dowdy: That's what tripped me out when I saw them when they first released. I said, I've never been so excited about a glossy black staple in my life.

Myke Hurley: And the paper is, I don't know what it's called. Um, let me see if it says it.

Brad Dowdy: It's in the specs. It's Finch opaque text paper.

Myke Hurley: It's the, um, the way the grid is printed.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, reticel, is that how you pronounce it?

Myke Hurley: Retical graph grid. Retical. So it's, um, like crosshairs and apparently that's good for, for stargazers. I think, I think these may be the best they've ever made.

Field Notes Popularity

Brad Dowdy: Wow. Yeah. I, I don't have mine yet, but I, I mean, I'm pretty excited about this. I mean, this is, this is serious business right here. I'm going to make, I'm going to make a bold prediction right now.

Myke Hurley: It's that little, go on.

Brad Dowdy: This version is going to sell out before the America is beautiful is sold out.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I think so. But even they said like it was two days for the black, their last black ones to sell out. And then they print a lot more now. Yeah. So it takes them longer.

Brad Dowdy: America is as beautiful as 45,000 and this was 45,000. And for the first time since I've been following field notes, this is the first time a previous edition hasn't sold out before the next edition came that I can remember. There's probably been a case, but they printed so many of them now. I've never seen a previous edition not sell out before the next one was released. And I think this one's going to sell out before the last edition. This is really, really a cool edition. That's, that's a lot of people are going to chomp, chomp to get.

Myke Hurley: So it's using a, um, I'm trying to find the paper here. It's 50 pound tea. Um, no, I can't remember what that meant now. So it's not as thick as the America, the beautiful paper. But it's thicker than the standard paper. So I did a test with, um, my Twisby stub nib. And it was just very, very slight bleed through, very slight, so much so that it wouldn't be an issue. But I was very surprised to see that sort of nib and ink distribution perform so well on this paper. So, again, I think that they paid attention to, and, and Anna at the well-appointed desk, she got hers like on Monday.

Myke Hurley: So she put her review up and I agree with her that I think that the guys at Field Notes, guys and gals over at Field Notes, um, listened to all the great feedback that they'd gotten.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. Yep. She made it, she made a, she made a pretty clear point about, um, you know, the, the paperweight. And she's actually friends with Brian, who's involved with Field Notes. You know, I think everyone was, the best part of the Americas, you know, I didn't fawn over the America is Beautiful Edition like everyone else did last time. So, but I did fawn over the paper that, paper choices that they were making now. Um, and I, I still owe my, uh, my paper list that I said I was going to make and share out with everybody for the Field Notes. But, um, you know, I, I think they are listening. I think they have improved the paper quality. And then we'll see, what we'll really see is if that translates into the stock editions later on. I don't know. They don't, they don't really have a reason to change the stock edition paper. And they probably won't because there's probably some added cost to that. But, and the stock editions are totally fine. The paper that they've always used has been fine. It's just for us that are real particular and use, you know, some, uh, wider fountain pen inks, uh, and some fountain pen inks with wider nibs and things like that. There is some bleed through. It's not the best fountain pen paper, but, um, there has been some improvements like in these last two editions. So, it's pretty exciting.

Myke Hurley: So, I think you're going to love them.

Brad Dowdy: I think so too. Um, I've never used, uh, this type of graph before. I'm wondering how large it is when I really get to using it. Like, is it going to be in the way? You know, is it, as opposed to like a dot, you know, a dot's pretty unobtrusive. Is the, is this, uh, is this graph going to be a little bit in the way? Probably not.

Myke Hurley: I don't think, I don't think you'll have a problem with it because you're, you're a man who likes graph paper. So. Right. It would, it would really surprise me because I like it. I think it looks really stylish.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. No, I think it looks great. And, uh, once in use, we'll wonder, I'll wonder how it's going to go. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: So I have some more field notes stuff, but we have two sponsors today. Um, and I would like to do, I would like to do the first, the first one now, if that's okay with you. Yeah, that's great. So, um, we'd love to thank our longtime sponsor, that is squarespace.com, who give you everything that you need to make an amazing website. Squarespace is a fully hosted, completely managed environment that allows you to create and maintain a beautiful website, blog, portfolio, online store, or site for your business. It doesn't matter how experienced you are when it comes to building websites. Because of Squarespace, you can put something online that looks incredible and functions amazingly in just minutes. You don't have to worry about any of the nasty stuff like hosting, scaling, or integrating with social services like Twitter and Facebook. They have beautiful themes, great templates, um, they have great page creation tools. I have updated my, uh, field notes page on my blog at mikehurley.net. And it took me five minutes today to just drag and drop in the new images that I wanted into the image blocks and resize them. And then I was able to, to change the focal point on them to make sure that they were right in the middle of the page. And I had the captions in and it took me just a few minutes to do something that if I was trying to code that, I don't think I ever could have got it done. So that's why I love Squarespace. They have great statistics, uh, they're real-time analytics that are built right in so you can see who's coming to your site. They have, uh, apps for Android and iOS so you can view these statistics and post to your blog on the go. If you want to sell stuff online, you have Squarespace Commerce, which lets you add a fully integrated store into your website. You can sell physical or digital goods and integrate with Stripe to start accepting payments immediately. And they have so much more. I'd love for you to go and try them out. Um, because I think that you, you know, if you, if, if you have a website that you want to create, if you have an idea or if you have an existing site, why don't you just go and try out Squarespace? And if you haven't, if you've tried them and, you know, it wasn't for you for some insane reason or, or whatever, why don't you go and take a look at it again? Um, and if, and even if Squarespace isn't where you want to put your next project, I can assure you that it's going to be somewhere that you will be able to put someone in your life. You know, so maybe you'll be a friend or a family member who needs a website. Squarespace can give them the tools that they need and then it makes it really easy for you to support them because it's such a simple platform. Go to squarespace.com, start your free trial, Squarespace plans start at $10 a month for the standard plan and use the code 70decibels6 at checkout. You'll get 10% off your first order. So go check out Squarespace. Everything that you need to make an amazing website.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that reminds me, I need to go update my field notes page. I still, I just need to take pictures. I'm slow on taking pictures. I need to take pictures of America the beautiful. So maybe when this one, uh, this one gets in, I will add that, add those updates as well. And like you said, it's super easy. It'll take me longer to take the pictures and edit the pictures and upload them than it will to add them to the page. That's for sure.

Myke Hurley: Yep. So whilst in San Francisco, I was able to get my hands on some, some field notes books that I've been waiting to get for a long time. One is the XOXO set. Nice. The purple set. Yep. And the other is one of the, um, there was a Kickstarter for a company called Studio Neat and they did a, um, an app called Simple Bracket. And with that, they were giving away, um, a field notes book with a basketball stamp on the back. And I was going to back them, but they couldn't ship them to the UK, but I was able to get one of those too. So I've added those to my page.

Brad Dowdy: That's fantastic.

Myke Hurley: I'm really happy to have the XOXO ones.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. You've wanted those ever since we started seeing pictures of them last year. Um, you were, you've been anxious to get those. I was able to trade for a set, uh, of them, but I only had one, uh, the one set. So, um, I know I was never able to send you any, but, um, it's, it's pretty cool. Um, I really liked the Simple Bracket one. I actually, when the, when Studio Neat, um, launched the Kickstarter, I think they were going to do it in green. And that's the one I really wanted. And they, I think there was a, ended up being like a paper problem and they ended up doing the orange, uh, which is totally fine. It, uh, it, it came out well. They did a good job with that for, uh, I know a bunch of us did the, uh, did the Simple Bracket, um, back for, uh, March Madness for the basketball tournament. I didn't know. I led some, some pin addict groups and things like that. So they, uh, I'm a, I'm a fan of Studio Neat and, uh, I'm definitely a fan of anyone that gives away field notes on their projects. I'm good with that.

Myke Hurley: Indeed. Especially custom ones.

Field Notes Subscription

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So are you, are you going to use the XOXO or are you just gonna, you just gonna hang tight?

Myke Hurley: Um, I have opened them. Yeah. Because that's what I do. Absolutely. Um, but I'm probably gonna use one of the Dark Sky ones next. Which kind of brings me into my next kind of thing that I want to talk about field notes related today. Okay. My voice is terrible, isn't it, right now?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah. I can tell you, uh, you've had a rough way. I, I, I, you know, I envy you being out in San Francisco. I don't envy how you are feeling right now because I know that's, that's a, for even just a week, you would think at some point you would catch up and circle back around to, to normalcy. But, uh, I imagine you're, you're hurting pretty good, um, getting back to your regular schedule.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't help that like I woke up with a sore throat this morning and this is my fourth podcast today.

Brad Dowdy: Oh my goodness.

Myke Hurley: So you're right at the end. And so I, my voice is, is strained. So I apologize to listeners if I'm quiet or hard to listen to today. I do apologize. But after, um, I've got a couple of things and then, then Brad's got, got something that he wants to talk about. So you can listen to his lovely, uh, Southern voice rather than this horrible raspy British voice. So whilst in San Francisco, um, I was seeing a lot of my nerd friends carrying field notes notebooks around with them.

Myke Hurley: I am a collector of field notes, but I am not a user of field notes. Um, I always have them in my bag. Um, and you know, I grabbed them and write little notes in them, but I don't use them to, to the extent that my friends. Do like you do or Steven does or people like that. They always have them in their back pocket with them and they pull them out and they take notes in them. And I want to try and start doing more of that. You know, I've, I've got all these notebooks building up and they are great books. And, and, you know, there's a reason that I love them. It's the quality as well as the fun and the variety of collecting them.

Myke Hurley: Especially now I've got the subscription because I have more than I need.

Myke Hurley: You know, from a savings, just to save on, I can just save onto a pack of free of each, you know, cause I get two packs of three.

Brad Dowdy: They're just going to keep on coming.

Myke Hurley: Exactly. Just one thing I meant to mention about earlier. I was so impressed by how quickly that they arrived.

Brad Dowdy: I've never seen them come so fast except for my, except for mine. I usually have them. I don't subscribe, which I think I said before, but, um, um, yeah, from, but I got my shipping notification immediately. So I actually thought they would be here by today, but they, but they aren't. But from the, they got out the subscribers ones super, super fast. Like the subscribers ones were showing up almost the day or the day after they announced it. And then even across, uh, across the England, I mean, they're showing up already, even before, you know, I've gotten mine. That's, that's very impressive. They were.

Myke Hurley: The field notes account actually tweeted to me and to us today, actually, because of a conversation we were having. And they say that generally the subscriptions start shipping before the initial, the edition is launched. And I received my shipping notification, like, well, by notification that they would be shipping about a week before they were announced. Okay. So my thinking would be that they maybe start sending to international a little bit sooner. So we don't have to wait so long. Maybe.

Brad Dowdy: You know what? Yeah, that, I mean, that just, that just shows how much field notes cares about their brand and their product that they want to make sure they're, they're doing those little things like making every, everyone kind of gets them at the same time. So if that means, okay, we have to ship to people in Europe, you know, three or four days ahead of, you know, the people in, in the U S we're going to do that. So everyone's kind of getting them at the same time. And it's those little things that make a difference in a, in a company like this, I think.

Myke Hurley: So I just got, I just pulled out the, um, the actual, the package and it was mailed on June 7th. Wow. So they mail it out. They mail them out on the Friday and then they announced someone like the Wednesday or the Thursday. And then it means that I get them on time. Now that's excellent customer service.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And that takes some, that takes some stones on their part too. Right. Because they don't, they don't want someone to get these before they've even announced them either. You know?

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I mean, they are in the mail and can show up any day, you know, but they, I guess they've got it down to knowing how many days it's going to take and managing that with their announcement and stuff. So, um, I mean, cause they, they, I've in all my years of following field notes, there's certain, there's never been a leak of what their, uh, what their next version is.

Myke Hurley: Indeed.

Pocket Pens

Brad Dowdy: Um, so. Yeah. So back to your topic.

Myke Hurley: What I, what I want is I want to be able to keep field notes in my pocket, right? In a back pocket. And I want a small pen to carry around with them. So it's like attached to the book. Now a pen that I've got is the field notes space pen. Um, and that kind of does that job, I think. But what I'm wondering, and I'll pose this to you and to any other listeners, is there a better pen than the field notes, like a space pen, a small space pen for doing this job?

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm.

Myke Hurley: Um, so, I mean, space pen's fine, but it's not really the type of pen that, that I go for. Um. Right.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Myke Hurley: Um. It's a rollerball, right? No, ballpoint. It's a ballpoint. Ballpoint, yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Um, I like the space pen. It's not, it's not anywhere near like one of my favorite pens. I like it for its utility and its looks. Um, it's not a great, it's not a great writer. Um, it's a decent writer. I use it, uh, the refills and like my County Comm Embassy pen, but that's a large pen and you want like a smaller, something that you could basically, like you want something that you can clip to the field notes that's small enough to pretty much stay internal to the notebook, right? You don't want a pen bigger than the notebook size, right? Is that kind of what I'm, I'm gathering?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, something small and good.

Brad Dowdy: Are you going to have an issue with the, uh, with the tip size? Like, you know, like a lot of these small pens that I like, you know, have like a very small, like a gel pen that's 0.3 millimeters. I mean, it's a small, it's a perfect pen for that, but I don't know. Would that drive you crazy?

Myke Hurley: I don't know. I don't think so.

Pen Types

Brad Dowdy: Well, let me tell you my favorite, my favorite right now for, I do, I do two, I write with two pens, well, two types of pens in my field notes. I either write with a fountain pen if like I'm at work or something, right? At work, I'm using a fountain pen most of the time. And if I already have my fountain pen out, I'll just take my field notes out and write in it with the fountain pen that I'm using. Now, if I'm not at work and don't necessarily have a fountain pen with me, like if I'm just going out, you know, going to the store or just going out anywhere, I still carry my field notes, um, in my pocket, but then I use a smaller pen and the one I'm using constantly and is still, I think my favorite. It's called the Monteverde, uh, Poquito. It's a, it's a mini ballpoint. It's 0.7 millimeter ballpoint. Um, you're not going to get the, um, the benefits of the pressurized refill, like the Fisher space pen. That's, we didn't mention that before, but I think it's, it's common knowledge when we say Fisher space pen, it's, um, it's a pressurized ink refill. That's, that's the selling point of it. Not necessarily the, the small size or, or, you know, how it writes, but the fact that it's a, it's considered a right anywhere pen. Um, it can handle all kinds of different conditions and things like that. The Monteverde, Poquito is not like that. It's more of a standard ballpoint, but I've never, this ballpoint ink refill is really close to a gelling, excuse me, like a rollerball type refill or maybe even gel. It's pitch, pitch black. Um, it's super smooth. The barrel of the pen is metal. Um, I don't know if it's aluminum or not, but it's a metal barrel. So it's durable. Um, it even has a stylus on the end because I mean, I'm always going to have my phone with me usually when, when I'm carrying around this notebook too. Um, and I've actually, you know, I'm on my second one because I washed my first one because I left it in my pants pocket and it kind of exploded. Um, but the clip is super durable. I mean, the clip is tight. Um, it's a twist. It's a twist release, um, to get, to get the tip out of the pen, to get it writing. It's not a, uh, a knock pin or a retractable pin or it doesn't have a cap. So you're not going to lose anything. Um, it's my favorite mini pin to carry with my field notes notebook. Put it that way.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Brad Dowdy: Um, I don't know for you if you want something, I don't know. I'm having a hard time recommending something for you to be quite honest. Um, just because I'm wondering if you would want like a wider, like a gel pin, like a 0.7 gel, would that work better for you?

Myke Hurley: Probably.

Brad Dowdy: Because you can get like the G2, the Pilot G2 mini.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I have one of those somewhere, I think.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's probably two or three times the width of something like the Paquito, but it's probably the same length, if that makes sense. Um, there's, um, gosh, I'm trying to think of anything that would write wider. It seems like everything that I like that's small also writes like really small.

Myke Hurley: Maybe we float, throw this one over to the listeners then.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So let's hear some, some mini pin recommendations. Um, probably larger than, you probably want something like a 0.7 millimeter gel, right?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, that would be good, I think.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So that's, that's the challenge here is finding something like a 0.7 millimeter gel, um, or a wider tip ballpoint, like the, the, um, the space pin you use is a 1.0 millimeter, um, ballpoint pin. So something in those ranges, because everything I use has a smaller tip, um, finer line, something like that. Um, have you ever considered anything like the, uh, like the, a portable fountain pen, like the Kaweco Lilliput?

Myke Hurley: Uh, yeah, I don't think I want a fountain pen for this. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you.

Brad Dowdy: Plus it, it has a top in your. Yeah. Lobo to lose it and things like that. Um, but this reminds me, I need to do a, um, I need to do a, uh, another top five list of mini pins. I've never done that before. So this, this reminded me that I, I need to put together something like this because I actually get, I get this question a lot. And, uh, Monteverdi Paquito is my go-to mini pin for, you know, leaving the house, you know, with a field notes notebook and my phone. Um, it's, it's far and away the best. The other one I use sometimes is the, um, the Pentel Sleachy, uh, Teco, which they made a 0.3 millimeter gel, um, Pentel Sleachy in those. The pin barrel is smaller than this Monteverdi Paquito. It's, it's narrower. It's perfect for something like that. But I think the 0.3 millimeter gel, I don't think that's something that you would like. Hmm.

Myke Hurley: Probably not.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I'll put a link into the notes and you can see, um, you can see what it, what it looks like. I've, I've reviewed both of those pins. I'm very, very high on both of them. And, um, but yeah, I'm, I'm having trouble finding besides the, the G2 is kind of the big mini gel ink pen, but it's the exact, I think it's the exact same barrel dimension as their standard G2. It's, but they just cut it in half pretty much. So.

Lamy Metropolitan

Myke Hurley: Not ideal really.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It's not ideal. It's, it's a little bit too wide. Um, we'll have to see if there's, see if there's some other route we can take. So we'll throw that out to the listeners and, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll tweet it out later too. And we'll, we'll follow up on that and see if, uh, we can come up with anything good and we'll, we will report back on that. How's that sound?

Myke Hurley: We will report back.

Myke Hurley: Exactly.

Myke Hurley: So why don't you tell people about, um, I wonder I've read this review, so, uh, let's see what you think. Tell me, tell us about your next thing.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Cause I want to have this conversation with you too. All right. So, um, we've talked about it many, many times and it's, it's a very popular item and I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for the right version to come in of the pilot metropolitan fountain pen. So this is a, this is a very important pen, if you will, for a lot of reasons. Um, people are loving this pen one, because it looks awesome. It feels great in the hand. It's got a killer nib and for all of that, you're only having to spend about $15, give or take, depending on where you buy it from.

Brad Dowdy: And so everyone has been challenging me and not in a malicious way, but they were just like, you got to check it out. You got to check it out. Because I know, like Anna mentioned, you know, I know Brad likes the Lamy Safari for his recommend, what pen do I recommend for beginning fountain pen users? And I've always recommended the Lamy Safari. And everyone's like, you got to try the metropolitan. You got to try it. You got to try it. Um, and that's going to be the pen that you're now going to recommend for, um, beginning fountain pen users. And so I, that the hesitation I had before was that when I was, I was ordering mine that they did, I didn't, I was holding off for the particular color. We had this conversation back with Anna that, you know, I think you bought the gold one and she bought the gold one maybe. And I was holding out for the black plain one. Right.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Is that the one you have? And you're like, uh, gold, but I want to get it anyway. I think you'd, you'd like it better if you didn't have the gold. Right.

Myke Hurley: I think so. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, long story short, I finally got my palette, palette metropolitan in and I reviewed it up on the blog. And I'm sure pretty much if you listen to this podcast, you probably read the review, but if not, it'll be in the show notes. And I, I really, really, really liked this pen. It's a fantastic pen. This nib is, might be the best nib I've used on a sub. I don't know. A hundred dollar pen. Probably we'll just say steel nib. I mean, as far as a steel nib goes, this nib for, in a $15 pen will rank with any steel nib pen on the market. Bar none. I don't know that I've used one this smooth, honestly. One of the readers pointed out that I used probably one of the wettest, most lubricated inks when I did the review in Aurora Black. That's just a real, real high flow, very lubricated ink, which helps. I mean, it's a super, super smooth ink. But I wanted to try something different than the stock, Metropolitan Ink. So, as much as I love the feel and the look and the nib of the pen, I had a really, I had a big problem with the pen that I didn't, I haven't really heard anyone mention before, and that there is a large step down in the section of the pen. And right where the pen caps down into the grip area, there's a metal edge step down, like where the cap would snap.

Myke Hurley: Yep.

Brad Dowdy: And I noticed it immediately. As soon as I started writing with the pen, the way I gripped the pen, that metal edge dug into my fingers. And it was not comfortable to write with. I mean, the pen felt great on the paper, but I felt that I could not write for an extended period of time with this pen. It just did not feel comfortable with me. And then I got to looking, and no one else really mentioned that. But after I mentioned it in the review, a bunch of other people said that, yeah, they noticed that, and that's one of the reasons why they're not a fan of the pen. So, it's by no means a deal breaker, but it puts it on par with the Lamy Safari. And, you know, each of these pens has grip flaws, if you will. The Lamy Safari, you're tied into a molded grip. And if you don't write with a standard grip, it's not going to be comfortable for you to write with. The Metropolitan, on the other hand, has kind of a different issue to where you might have the edge of the pen digging into your fingers while you write. Right. So, I mean, there's give and take with both. But what I really wanted to talk about is a lot of the feedback I got was very strong, and not in a bad way. I love all the disagreements. We can have lots of good conversations. Our friend, Philip Kallenberg, he's talked with both of us, and I've talked about him on the podcast before. And Philip and I enjoy a lot of the same pens. We exchange pen lists all the time. And, you know, we've been kind of on the same journey where we were like in the fine gel pens, and we've kind of morphed into these fine nib fountain pens and different things like that. And he sent me, not only did he leave a big comment on the Metropolitan post, he sent me a huge email that was even a little bit more stern than the comment he left on the blog. And he was basically calling me out on it, saying that, you know, there's no way that the Safari is a better beginner fountain pen than the Pilot Metropolitan. And I look at it strictly from the perspective of if you're a beginner and want to try a beginner fountain pen, you know, what would I recommend? And I stuck with the Lamy Safari in the end over the Pilot Metropolitan because I felt it gave you more options right off the shelf.

Brad Dowdy: There's more variety in nibs. There's more variety in barrel colors and design. You know, I just felt that it was going to stay as my most recommended fountain pen for beginners.

Brad Dowdy: And a lot of, like, Phillip's comments were, you know, it was a lot of back and forth. And his point was, well, you can take the Metropolitan and, yes, it only has a medium nib available, but you can buy a Pilot Plumix and you can swap out the nib, you know, for that and, you know, make it a, give it a finer nib and do things like that. And I said that I agree with you completely, but I'm never going to recommend a beginner to buy two fountain pens just so you can switch the nib around. You know, for a beginner, I want them to be able to buy a pen, pop an ink cartridge in, and start writing. So that's one of the hang-ups.

Brad Dowdy: And I don't want it to sound like I hate the Metropolitan. I think it's an awesome pen. I mean, for the price, I mean, yeah, I mean, I will agree with, I will never disagree with anyone that says that a $15 pen that writes this well is not the best beginner fountain pen. It's awesome. I'm still going to recommend the Lamy Safari for my beginner fountain pen.

Brad Dowdy: You know, I don't know what else to say about that. It's a good, I've had a lot of good conversation. I implore everyone to read the comment section on the blog. The comments are quite disparate on both sides of it, which means that always makes for a good topic. And a good subject of conversation when, you know, people are that adamant on both sides of the topic. So it's by no means a bad pen. And actually, I think it's a fantastic pen. And actually, the thing I'm most impressed with is Pilot for bringing this pen to market. Because that's a killer price for a killer product. It's just not for me. And it's not what I'm going to recommend to beginners. But it is going to be an option. I mean, I think that's, you know, two good options, the Safari and the Metropolitan. And they both have things you need to consider when you buy them. And like I told Phillip in our email exchange, which isn't in the comment section, my comment to him was, that's why I always tell Myke on the podcast, that's why they make more than one pen. So we'll leave it at that. We all have our own tastes. And I stand where I stand. And everyone else stands where they stand. And it's a battle royale for the $15 fountain pen.

Brad Dowdy: Phillip was funny, though, at the end of our conversation, our email conversation, after, I don't know, a handful of emails gone back and forth. He finally, his last email wrapped it up. He's like, I can't believe I'm getting so mad about a pen I only use for ink testing.

Myke Hurley: Wow.

Brad Dowdy: So that was the wrap of that conversation. We just, we had a good laugh about it. But he was very adamant that I was wrong. And, you know, I wasn't as adamant that I was right. But, I mean, like I told him, that's why they make more than one pen. And we'll always all have the pen that works best for us. And that's why this is such a fun hobby to be involved in and a fun blog and a fun podcast. Because we can all find different things we love or hate about pens and have a good discussion around them. And, you know, we're all trying to find the things that make our pens and paper work better for us. And that's why it's so much fun.

Cult Pens Sponsor

Myke Hurley: So we have a new sponsor this week.

Brad Dowdy: Yes, I'm excited.

Myke Hurley: Very, I'm thrilled, actually, that we're sponsored this week in part by Cult Pens. Now, we've spoken about Cult Pens a bunch of times before on the show. And we're both, me and Brad, are really, really happy that they decided to sponsor us this week. At cultpens.com, you will find one of the largest range of pens, pencils, and refills on the planet. They have an unrivaled collection of over 11,000 products. And they specialize in classic, hard-to-find in niche pens, pencils, and refills from the world's biggest manufacturers. Which I think is music to mine and Brad's ears, right?

Brad Dowdy: For sure.

Myke Hurley: Cult Pens, they pride themselves on customer service and they process orders promptly. They also offer comprehensive pre-sales and after-sales service and are very happy to answer any and all question you have, no matter how odd, broad, or specific, because they have the knowledge and the know-how to get it answered for you. So, they're recommended by the customer service departments of Pilot, Pentel, Uniball, Zebra, and many more, and are the recommended UK retailer for brands such as Faber-Castell, Schneider, and Coico. So, that's a lineage.

Myke Hurley: There are some companies that we love. And one of the things that I really like about Cult Pens is that you're able to buy items like refills individually. So, you remember a couple of weeks ago, I was testing out some refill options for the Render K. And I bought a bunch of different refills. Remember, I was going through them all? Well, I bought all of those from Cult Pens. And rather than needing to buy a whole pack of like four of each, I was able to buy each one individually. And then when I decide which ones I want to stick with, I can go back to them and buy packs as well. Cult Pens are based in the UK, but they ship worldwide with very affordable rates and competitively priced products, as well as exclusives as well. I want to highlight, just before we wrap up, a couple of products that Cult Pens have got at the moment, which seem very exciting to me. So, they stock Twisby notebooks and pens, and they even have some Twisby pens that you can only get from them in the UK. You can't get them from anywhere else. They have inks like the Cult Pens Deep Dark Blue, which Brad just recently reviewed. And that was what you mentioned a couple of weeks ago that you bought. So, that ink, which Brad loves a lot, actually, and I'll put his link into the show notes, that is a Cult Pens exclusive. They had that made for them. And they are currently offering a two-for-one deal on the Pentel Sign Pen. And I'll make sure there's links in the show notes to all of those. So, please go and check out Cult Pens and consider making your next purchase from them. Not only do they offer a great all-round service, but it will help support the show. So, just go to cultpens.com and let them know that we sent you. A great place to do this. So, if you want to buy from them, you love what they got, you want to help support the show, tell them on Twitter, and they are at Cult Pens on Twitter. That's a real great way to tell them that you heard about them on our show. And that will encourage them, I'm sure, to sponsor with us again, because we love to have sponsors on the show that are really good for this show. And I think that Cult Pens are a perfect example of that.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's fantastic. And definitely let them know on Twitter. Whoever manages their Twitter account, it's probably a couple of people, they do a fantastic job. I've had some lengthy conversations on Twitter, you know, talking about refills or talking about certain pens. They are very knowledgeable, very smart, very witty. Good conversation to have. So, definitely tell them, you know, that you heard about Cult Pens from the Pen Addict. And just to give my own little aside, on Cult Pens shipping from the UK to the US, I ordered, this was, like you said, weeks ago, where I just, I'm into, I'm knee-deep into fountain pen inks right now and trying to find, you know, all these different shades of blue that I like and which ones are my favorites. And I found out, it might have even been from Cult Pens, I don't know where I found out, that they had their own special ink made by Diamine, a Cult Pens Deep Dark Blue. And, well, I was like, well, you know, if it was red or green or something like that, I probably wouldn't have ordered it. But, you know, Deep Dark Blue, you know, it's just like, let me hand you my credit card. And so, I ordered a couple bottles of that and I ordered a couple bottles of Pelican Blue Black from them. So, I ordered four bottles of ink from the UK. And I think they shipped, it was less than, it was probably like maybe seven business days, seven or eight business days that I got it. And it was totally reasonable, packaged great, had no problems with shipping, don't have to deal with customs like Myke does the other way. And, you know, I got it and I love this ink. This ink's awesome. Actually, I posted the review yesterday on it. It's hard to photograph fountain pen inks accurately. So, I had some funky coloration in that. But it's a really rich, deep, dark blue, just like it says. I mean, this is a very descriptive name. It is deep, dark, and it is blue. It's not, it doesn't dry black like some dark blues do. It doesn't have a lot of shading, but it's a beautiful color. This is an everyday use type of ink. I'm a big, big fan of, I was a fan of the Diamine inks anyway. They behave very well. They're easy to clean out of pens. They work well on all kinds of papers. And their colors are really, really good. So, I was happy to see that they partnered up to make an ink so cool. And I'm very happy with it. And I will definitely be reviewing the Pilot Blue Black that I got from them as well, because that's another ink that you can't get in the U.S. So, yeah, I'm stoked that they're a sponsor. And this is good stuff, Myke, definitely.

Myke Hurley: This is cultpens.com, C-U-L-T-P-E-N-S.com. And they are at cultpens on Twitter. Thank you very much to Cult Pens for sponsoring.

Brad Dowdy: Yes, thank you, Cult Pens.

Brad Dowdy: So, I've got a pretty lengthy topic here, Myke.

Myke Hurley: We might need to chop it up.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, we might need to chop it up. Let me see what I can do here. We're at 40 minutes. I know. And normally, that's about an average length. But I don't want to just stop right now and leave people hanging. I think this is a conversation I can get started, and then we can wrap up on a future episode. I don't know if it'll be next week or later down the line. But this is a topic that I've had so many people email on, and I keep getting asked to do a show on fountain pen inks. As I've been doing more ink reviews, people have a lot of questions, and they keep asking me, is there a podcast episode you can point to where you go over fountain pen inks and tell me what I need to know about fountain pen inks. So, I've been trying to put this together. And I think that's probably a pretty long conversation, but it ties in with the ink review I did for the blog yesterday with the Colt Pens Deep Dark Blue. Let's just start talking about fountain pen inks, and we'll get to a good stopping point, and we might have to pick some up later. But I basically want to talk about just kind of like a fountain pen inks 101. You know, what are some of the basics? Why, you know, people use certain types of inks? What are some of the terminology around fountain pen inks? And this is all something that, you know, I'm looking for feedback on too. You know, I'm liable to, I'm not as well versed in fountain pen inks as a lot of people are. So, I'd love to hear some feedback, and what other topics you would like me to hear, or any corrections you have to make on anything I'm saying that's incorrect. So, basically, we'll just get started with, you know, why people use the different types of fountain pen inks that they use. And it's, you know, just like anything else with pens. It's all a matter of personal preference. You have to determine what your use is going to be. You know, are you using it at work? Are you using it for artistic type of work? Are you using it on cheap copy paper? Are you using it in a fine nib? Are you using it in a super broad type of nib? Are you using it on high-end paper like Claire Fontaine? There's so many variables that go into a fountain pen ink, and how it's going to perform for you and your individual situation. So, let's just go through a few of these terms, and we'll just kind of try to tie it up into a cohesive package. And I don't know how well I'll do because I'm still learning about this myself. But some of the terms that you'll hear when I'm reviewing fountain pen inks on the blog or that we talk about on the show, you're going to hear terms like saturation. That is really, I kind of say saturation is like the depth of the ink color on the page. You know, how solid or strong or deep the ink lays down on the page.

Fountain Pen Ink

Brad Dowdy: You can have, for an example, you can have like a black ink that is almost as pitch black as like a Sharpie marker on the page. You don't see any color variation. The color is consistent throughout the line. Or you can have, you know, a black ink from a different vendor that might have a lot more gray in it or might look more watery or like a watercolor. That would be a more low saturation point for the ink. So, saturation is really that ink depth. How dark that line is, how strong that line is, how consistent a color that line is. In relation to the saturation, there's a term called shading. Shading is a term I use a lot because that's, you take that line of ink that you're putting down on the page and the shading is the range of the individual color you'll see in the line of the ink. You know, if you take like the black ink I used in the previous example, that's as dark as a Sharpie. There's no color variation. If that shade is, it's a solid line, it's consistent in color, you're going to say that that ink has little or no shading. If you then take another ink and you lay down a line of ink and you kind of see the ink moving around and like the ink where you started the line is a very light shade and the ink where you finished the line is a very dark shade and you can see like for an example, like in a green ink, you might see some yellow or some brown or some of these different colors in that line of ink. That's going to be a highly shaded ink. So there's a whole range of shading inks. I put a link in the show notes. A good example of it is an ink that people love for its shading properties. It's called Noodler's Apache Sunset. It's an orange, it's kind of an orangish brown ink, but it's got some really bright yellow tones in it and it goes from bright yellow to almost a brown and in just a single stroke of the pen. It's a very, very beautiful ink and I've actually just bought a bottle of that recently.

Brad Dowdy: One thing I'm going to backtrack on when we do talk about the ink, fountain pen inks aren't pigmented inks primarily. It's mostly just water and dyes and other chemicals that might help the ink flow or have, you know, with saturation and there's also some antibacterial chemicals in the inks to help. You know, some, I've never experienced this, but some people say that some of the inks mold by the chemicals and the dyes and the mixture that's in it. So there's, it's mostly just water and dye and a few other chemicals that help out with the ink flow or have some antibacterial properties.

Brad Dowdy: And anything I talk about, we're going to, I have a bunch of links to put into the show notes for this topic. Um, speaking of the ink flow, you can have an ink and, and keep in mind when I talk about something like ink flow or shading or even saturation, this is all going to vary depending on the nib and the paper you use. Um, you know, especially something like the ink flow, um, that's going to, you're going to have to compare it. Like me, I use these extra fine nibs. I've used enough to know, even on this teeny tiny extra fine nib, I can tell if the ink flows is dry or wet. And what I mean by that is how much ink is getting onto the page. Um, I, I can think of a couple inks that I've, I've tested and not reviewed that are extremely, extremely dry, uh, to write with. That means not a lot of ink goes onto the page. Um, you feel a lot more feedback from the nib when you're writing with a dry, with a dry ink. And you can actually tell, you know, not all inks are formulated the same. You know, you can find some inks that are just super, super smooth. You can tell there's almost like a, a lubricating quality in the ink where others, you can tell it's just, it's just a very dry abrasive line. And that's not a negative. Some people enjoy that. It's just a consideration to have. Um, when you're talking about the ink flow, there is a range of dry to wet in the ink flow from the nib. And when that, when that ink hits the page, one of the most important things, especially for someone like Myke, who's a left hander is the dry time. Um, that's a huge, that's a huge deal, right, Myke?

Myke Hurley: It's massively important to me. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, you know, all these things are going to be, there's all these lists of terms. It's, it's there. The importance is going to be weighted differently for some people. Myke, for Myke's, uh, purposes, you know, dry time might be the number one thing he needs to consider for a fountain pen ink. While myself, it might be the level of shading for the ink pen. I mean, for the ink on the page. So there's all these things to consider, but there's a dry, there's inks that are specially formulated to have a quick drying time. There's inks that are just going to take what feels like days to dry no matter what paper you use on, use them on. So, you know, you have to do your research on the dry time. And there are considerations to have around that. Um, but there are inks that are made specifically to dry fast. And, you know, we've talked about some and, um, we'll, we'll talk about more in the future. I'm sure. Um, one of the, two of the terms that I concern myself a lot, uh, with when I'm using fountain pen inks are feathering and bleed. You'll hear me talk about that a lot. Um, feathering is how the ink spreads on the surface of the page, like on the top level of the paper. That's feathering. Bleed is the absorption of ink through the page. You can think of it like the, the 3d, uh, the, the 3d feathering, if you will. Um, so feathering is like on the surface of the page and the bleed is through the depth of the thickness of the page. Um, you know, uh, there's so many inks out there and they all have different properties. So it's just a matter of a lot of fountain pen inks. And on the paper I use like Rodia, you're not going to get a lot of feathering. Um, but if you use like a basic office office copy, copy, copy paper, you're going to get probably a decent amount of feathering and a lot of bleed. You know, it's, it's really dependent on the other tools you're using along with the fountain pen ink. But there's also inks that are made specifically to not feather and to not bleed. So, um, there, there's all kinds of things you can do to make, um, your writing experience better with fountain pen inks. Um, waterproof ink is another consideration for a lot of people. It's not something I concern myself with. Um, I don't look for, um, you know, any type of archival properties in, in the inks that I use. I don't, I'm not making any kind of any journals that are permanent that, you know, I need to last for 20 years or 50 years or things like that. Um, and along that, along those lines, um, you can take a step up from waterproof and go into a bulletproof ink. And that's more of an ink that it's going to be waterproof, but then it's going to basically be, um, locked into the paper. It's not going to be able to be washed out or chemically removed from the page at all. It, um, the ink bonds with the fibers of the page. And you can, um, you know, you can, I hesitate to use the word archival, but it's, it's an ink that's going to last a long time in the paper. And it's not going to be able to be modified, um, very easily, if at all, by anyone with, uh, uh, nefarious intentions. Do you, do you care about waterproofness or bulletproofness in general, Myke? No, I'm not that worried about that yet.

Myke Hurley: No.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. That's not a consideration, um, for you. And that's not something I don't, uh, that's not a consideration for me either, which is one of the reasons in my, in my ink reviews, I haven't been doing water tests. Um, it's not a consideration for me. It's not that I don't care about it and don't want to share that with other readers. It's just not something that I'm into. Um, and there's so many ink reviews out there and I try to link to other people that have reviewed the same inks that have done, um, there's some extremely, extremely thorough fountain pen ink tests out there on the web that you can find and they'll cover things like waterproofness and, uh, and, and things like that in their reviews. It's not something I generally get into, um, if I'm not super highly concerned about it myself, but that may change. Um, there's, there's some that I have done some water tests on before just because they have interesting ink properties. Um, one of the items, one of the ink properties in terms that I'm just starting to learn and learn about and I'm interested in, um, is called iron gall ink. And that's basically an ink term or an ink type that's been around for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years where it was a, it was an ink made from, you know, highly, you know, acidic abrasive chemicals. Um, you know, I've got some descriptions in here that said made from iron salts and tannic acids from vegetable sources. So what this does is this makes back in the olden days, this, this made the ink permanent on the, on the parchment that they were using. Um, but it's a very, due to the chemicals used to make it, it is very corrosive to the metal parts of the pen. And so these days, the, you know, as you know, we get more experience with the chemical technology and the manufacturing processes, you, you can buy iron gall inks that aren't nearly, nearly as damaging to your pens, um, as you know, what used to be historically. Um, but you do have to take a little extra care when you're using an iron gall ink, just because a lot of people say don't use steel nibs or steel parts with iron gall ink. Um, you want to use, you know, gold nibs, gold nib pens and things like that. And a lot of the inks these days you can use in steel nibs. You just have to be extra careful to make sure you use the pen for one, don't let the ink sit, you know, make sure if you're going to use an iron gall ink, make sure that's a pen that you're using frequently. And two, you want to clean it, you know, more frequently than you do just a regular pen. Um, cause what this ink does is, you know, like the, the blue, the blue black iron gall ink is the traditional ink, um, you know, throughout the centuries. And what happens is it goes down as like a blue ink and it says it's exposed to oxygen. The, the ink kind of, there's like a reaction, a reaction and the ink kind of, it, it deepens in color. Um, usually it's super dark blue or even black. I've got a, I've got a sample of one that's gone, that's gone from blue to black, um, as, as the ink reacts to the, uh, to the air around it. So that's some, some general terms, um, that you hear, you might hear me talking about, um, the, the list could go, I could do dozens and dozens and dozens of more terms. I just wanted to kind of hit the 101 points and have some, uh, conversation around these terms and find out what questions you have, um, around it. And, you know, what else I can expand on. And I put a, we'll put a bunch of links in the, um, in the show notes. I did a little bit of research for some of these terminology and there's some good links that I found where I got some of this information from. So if you want to read more about just the general terms around the fountain pen inks, you know, we'll have these links in the show notes. So make, make sure you, you check that out. Um, on a more practical nature, other than just, you know, reeling off some definitions, um, some of the things I've learned using fountain pens and different inks and different nibs and different filling systems to get the best out of your pen. And it's common sense, but it's things that I forget from time to time is you, if you're using a fountain pen ink, it's not like a gel ink pen or a roller ball where you can just sit and leave it capped for, you know, a week, a month, a year. And, you know, those pens, you'll pick them up and they'll write fine. A fountain pen will not. It's going to take a little bit of care. And that's why fountain pens aren't necessarily for everybody. Um, if you're using a fountain pen and with a, you know, a normal ink and you, you run it through and you need to refill it, you know, it's, it's okay to fill that pen with the same ink, you know, two or three times in a row before having to clean that pen. But you do want to clean the pens regularly to ensure that the ink's going to flow properly, that there's nothing, anything clogged in the nib or in the feed. Um, you know, if you're using a more extreme ink, like an iron gall ink, you want to fill that probably every refill. You want to go ahead and, and clean that pen out and, um, things like that. But, you know, you got to take, you got to take care of your pens that you have inked up. Um, you know, this is, you know, it's, it takes a little bit of work to use a fountain pen, but I mean, you know, in the, in the end, I think it's, it's worth it. And it's something that I was for years and years and years. And we can go back and listen to me on some of the early episodes of the podcast. Someone pointed out episode number 10, Myke, when you get a chance, go back and listen to episode number 10 of the podcast. I listened to it. It's a great, great episode. Um, but listen to some of the conversation that we have and listen to where we're at now with our pens. And we'll, let's put a link in the show notes to episode 10. We get everyone to go back and listen to that. Cause it's funny, um, compared then to now. Um, but you know, it, it, I was hesitant for years to do the work that it took, um, to use and maintain fountain pens. But once I got into it, I found that there's, there's really little, there's not that much more extra effort required to use a fountain pen. And, and the options are so varied, it makes it all worthwhile and getting to use all these different great fountain pen inks is part of it. And, um, you know, that's, uh, that's, that's what makes it so fun. So, you know, that's, I wanted to go over these terms and we'll, we'll continue on another day and continue the fountain pen inks 101 discussion, because I want to talk about, um, you know, what type of inks you should use, um, what type of damage you can do to, uh, a pen, um, by using some, some different inks. And, and we'll go through, you know, a few other, few other points like that. Um, and I, I think that's probably a, probably a good stopping point for today. And, uh, we can, we can pick up some of this conversation. We'll get some feedback to see what else people want to hear about, uh, inks. I think they probably want to hear more about specific inks, why, you know, a pilot of Roshizuku ink is so good or why, you know, should you be careful with certain, certain ink brands or certain strengths of ink and, and things like that. So, um, I think we'll, we'll save that for another day cause that could be, uh, you know, a pretty decent link conversation. How's that sound, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Sounds good to me, man.

Brad Dowdy: All right.

Brad Dowdy: Well, let's, uh, I think that's a wrap and we'll, uh, we'll pick this conversation up down the line. Awesome.

Myke Hurley: So we done for today? I think we're good. It's been a great episode.

Brad Dowdy: I think it has, it has. It was, uh, you know, we, uh, we, we cheated last week. We recorded earlier. So it's actually been two weeks since I've got to talk to you and always miss when I don't get to talk to you, Myke.

Myke Hurley: Oh, I still haven't claimed my, uh, retro 51 surf from customs.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, that's right. So, uh, maybe by, uh, maybe by next week we can talk about that.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Maybe by next week.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. You're running out of time and money. More money than time.

Myke Hurley: But, uh, you can catch up with us online. Uh, Brad writes at the pen addict dot, no pen addict dot com. Pen addict dot com.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, but I, I did buy that domain as you lectured me for years about.

Myke Hurley: I know, but then you wouldn't redirect it. Anyway. It's redirected. Good. Um, Brad is also on at.net and Twitter. He is at dowdy, D-O-W-D-Y on app.net and dowdyism, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M on Twitter. I am iMike. I am Y-K-E. Thank you very much for listening to this week's episode of the pen addict podcast. Hopefully I will be back next week with a better voice. Um, we will see. But thank you very much for putting up with me this week, Brad and to the listeners too. And, uh, we'll be back next week. Absolutely. See you then. See you. Bye bye. Bye. I'll see you next time.