The Pen Addict 497/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	497
Title:	Here's My Desk Computer, Here's My Desk Cup
Release Date:	January 19th, 2022
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 497
Audio File:	Audio Episode 497
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 497
Length:	5353 min <br />0.883 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Introduction

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 497. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad. Hey Myke, how are you today? Good man, how are you?

Brad Dowdy: Good, I think.

Myke Hurley: Uh oh.

Brad Dowdy: As I always say, good, I think. Uh oh. Yeah, I think it's questionable, right? Uh oh. I'm good, I'm good. Am I good though, really? You're always good, you're good to me at least. I'm good, I'm good, I'm fine, everything's good, everything's golden. Um, starting this show off with a sort of stationery related thing, that I have a favour to ask of our listeners, Myke. Mm-hmm. Especially if those listeners also join myself and yourselves on Twitch. So, um, friend, uh, Miranda, our good friend Miranda, um, who writes for IGN and is also an awesome streamer. She streams at Havoc Rose. We'll put a link in, uh, the show to her stream. She runs the Stationery Brew stream team. So there's a bunch of us stationary, um, streamers in that group. And she has put a, what do they call this? Like a user, it's basically like a user. Like a petition kind of thing? Yeah, but like a petition. And, uh, on Twitch to just, for something very simple, to add tags for our stationary streams so people can find us, like, when we're searching, right? Like, literally, can we have the tags like stationary, journaling, planning, things like that, right? So when we were, I was talking about this on stream the other day, which is where you get most people to do this because they already have a Twitch account. You have to have a Twitch account to vote. Um, they were mentioning that keyboards just got, like, a keyboard tag, like, three months ago, right? So this is something that, uh, Miranda created a while back, honestly, like a year, year ago. So, and it's just still hasn't gotten any traction with Twitch that we would just, like, some basic search help from Twitch to help us find, um, you know, other, uh, streamers who are doing the same thing. Because we don't have our own category, right? Like, most of us stream in makers, makers and crafting. Um, there's some art streamers, some writing streamers that do stationary stuff. But there's not, like, a perfect place for us. And there probably won't ever be, just because it's never going to be that big. And it definitely falls into, like, the makers and crafting kind of arena. But to have those little extra tags in there. So I'm going to put, um, a link to Miranda's tweet so you can see what it's about. And then she links it over to the place on Twitch where you can just go click vote. Yes, I would like this feature to help all of us stationary streamers out. So thank you, and I appreciate it.

Myke Hurley: This is something that got added in the keyboard community. So there was no tag for keyboards. There was a tag for keycap design in the makers and crafting. But no, like, nothing else. Which is just, like, a really weird, like, why of everything is this the thing? Um, and there was one of these, uh, Twitch user voice posts. I voted on that. Like, I've now voted on this one. And they added it. So there is now a, uh, just keyboards tag, um, in the makers and crafting. And it just means that, like, if you want to find keyboards, there's now, like, a keyboards thing. Right? So, like, it's just another easy way for people to try and find what they're looking for.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Super simple. Hopefully it's super simple for them. It's got to be super simple for them to add. It's harder for them to notice that it needs to be added. Right? Like, that type of thing. So, I appreciate y'all. Any of y'all that have a Twitch account, you know, it's obviously easier for me to ask this when I'm on Twitch streaming. And people are already logged into Twitch. And they can just go over and click the button. So it's a bigger ask for our podcast listeners to do the same. But if you happen to have a Twitch account, go follow that link. It would be cool. I'd appreciate it.

Myke Hurley: If you can vote with a Twitch account. Yeah, no, you have to just have a Twitch account. Or if you're Twitch staff, you can also do it. But I guess...

Brad Dowdy: Your Twitch staff, probably. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Twisby Ink Bottle

Myke Hurley: 350 units available worldwide. It's just a limited run product. It is a large glass ball, which fits the 70-millimeter Twisby inks. And it's, like... I can't think of the word. Like, machined? Milled? I don't really know how you'd say it for glass. Cast?

Brad Dowdy: Milled? Yeah, milled. I don't know that it's... I don't think you could cast glass. I don't know what the time would be. And I don't think it's, like, directly blown, right? I think it's probably, like, machined or milled.

Myke Hurley: Machined into allowing you to then tilt the ink bottle at 45, 34, 22.5, and 11 degrees. So, as your ink bottle depletes, you can tilt it to allow you to bring the ink to a level where you could more easily fill the pen, which is exactly what we were talking about with Robert Hoster Bottles in the last episode. And I said how much I wanted something that would let me, like, tilt the ink bottle as well so I could get into it. And now Twisby have made this. I mean, admittedly, this is for their own inks, and I don't use them. But I actually think this is really weird. You know what I actually like about this? I like that it's just a limited run. Somebody wanted it. We made 350 of them. That's the end of it. And I like that kind of stuff. I do these kinds of things. You do these kinds of things.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It should be called the Twisby Danger Zone because there's no way this goes well for somebody, right? Your bottle is more likely to end up on the desk than if it was just in the bottle.

Myke Hurley: If it's like you think you might be ready to go down to 22.5 degrees, but uh-oh, what you really wanted was 26 degrees because now there's ink all over the desk.

Brad Dowdy: Oh my gosh. Like, I mean, I'm with you. I adore this. Like, this is what Twisby does. They just do this weird stuff, like, sometimes. And sometimes it's a pen, and sometimes it's an accessory. And they're just like, you know, screw it. Let's make the Twisby. And they call it stupid stuff, like the Twisby ball, which is actually brilliant, right? The names are always the Twisby Go. I was like, what are you doing? Like, but it's brilliant, right? Like, it's the best name for that pen. It's not the Twisby spring-loaded high-ink capacitor, right? It's the Twisby Go. It's also a fun name, though. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's great. The Twisby Swipe. The Twisby Ball. I mean, like, what I... Twisby Ball. They're going to have, like, a food line, and it's going to be, like, the Twisby pickle one day. And it's just going to, like, yeah, it's a pickle. Like, thanks, Twisby. But it's like, you're also a genius. So, I love this. Like, I'm not chasing this down to, like, go get one for myself, because do I even have any of these bottles, right? Like, I might have one. I don't even know. I would have to check. Like, I think I have the blue-black in that size bottle, the 70 milliliter bottle. But it's just fantastic, right? It's just fantastic. And if you're going to 11 degrees on this, like, you're just asking. You're just playing with fire. Like, there's going to... We're going to have a horror story this time next year. It's like, I bought the Twisby Ball, and I got the degrees wrong, and now there's ink all over my desk. And then I threw the Twisby Ball through the window, so now I have a replacement window on the way.

Myke Hurley: So, $60. It's on their site right now.

Brad Dowdy: I have no problem with that. Yeah. I mean, for Twisby, it seems, like, out of line. Like, it seems like, whoa, that's expensive, but... It looks nice. Like, I mean, we've talked about how ink companies have had to change, like, their ink bottle designs, right? Just for a cost perspective. And if you're going to make a smaller amount, and this is, like, a very thick, probably a detailed machining operation. I can't... Like, I wouldn't imagine it would be less than, like, $30 or $40, so I don't think $60 is probably not out of line.

Myke Hurley: I don't think they're making much money, any money in this at all, really. It's... Yeah. Especially in those units, it's like...

Brad Dowdy: I mean, for Twisby, it's expensive, right? For Twisby, it seems like, well, I can buy two Twisby pens for that much. But, you know, it's a fun thing. It's like the concept cars, right? Like, sometimes you just make the fun thing because it's fun to do, and it shows off some of the things that you're interested in. And even though it's not the main line thing, right? I think it's cool. I love it. So I can't wait for someone to order this and tell me how it really is, but I'm not ordering it.

Myke Hurley: So this holds the 70-milliliter inks.

Brad Dowdy: They've introduced a bunch of different size ink bottles, which is a little bit of a problem when you're selling, like, a specifically sized product like this, right? Yeah. They started with the 70s, was the first version. Right. Then they made 20s, I think?

Myke Hurley: That's $16, the 70-milliliter inks.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. So they don't have a wide range of colors in the big bottles, right? It's like your basics, blue, black. I think if I have one, it's blue, black, right? It's just, you know, the standards. Like, is that really, do I need the accessories for my basic ink, right? Like, if I was, like, it would be interesting to have this type of accessory for, like, a really wild ink lineup. Mm-hmm. But, like, I get it. I mean, this will be sold out, you know, by the time you post this, probably. Probably. $160 a pop, right? So it's pretty cool. Pretty cool.

Myke Hurley: Something that I cannot believe is still in stock is the Retro 51 Ombre Macchiato, the new Retro 51 Gold Spot collaboration. This might be, Brad, I don't know any, well, I don't have it yet. I bought one immediately. It's been a while since I've done that. This might be one of the best Retro 51 designs of all time.

Brad Dowdy: I will agree to disagree with you on this. And I completely understand why it's still in stock. I saw this. I didn't even bother to put it in the show notes. Why? It's amazing. You saw it, and you're like, Brad, oh my gosh.

Retro 51 Ombre Macchiato

Myke Hurley: It looks incredible. It looks like a macchiato. And it's got latte art on the top. It's the finial. It's just fantastic.

Brad Dowdy: So here's my problem. It's upside down.

Brad Dowdy: The coffee's pouring out the top of the pen. So every time I use the pen, it's upside down.

Myke Hurley: No, it's not.

Brad Dowdy: The cream should be on the top.

Myke Hurley: No, it shouldn't be.

Brad Dowdy: Because it's on the top of the cup.

Myke Hurley: No, because this is, so a macchiato, sometimes, a lot of the time, you start by adding the espresso to the milk. So you foam the milk, and then you take the espresso and pour it in the top. So it starts, like, so the espresso at the top sits down.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. Yes.

Brad Dowdy: So, but if you do a, what do you call it when you slice something in half and see, like, the side view? A cross-section. The cross-section, thank you. If you did a cross-section of a macchiato in a cup after the design has been poured through the top, what's on the bottom?

Myke Hurley: Well, it depends how long it's going to be.

Brad Dowdy: No, no, no. When you're done making it, and you've made your little frillies on the top, what's on the bottom?

Myke Hurley: No, but that's, okay, so here's, the problem is, the problem is.

Brad Dowdy: Just say that I'm right.

Myke Hurley: No, you're not right. The problem is the finial design is detached from the rest of it. Because. That's correct. The finial is latte art. You cannot do latte art on a macchiato.

Brad Dowdy: Mm, okay. See, I'm just a, I'm just a standard coffee drinker. Yeah. I don't really know the build process. Like, I get the idea of it, but then the concept of it, but to me, it's just, I think it's, don't get me wrong. I think it's cool. Like, more coffee pens, more coffee pens, the better. I just think this one's backwards.

Myke Hurley: It's not. It isn't. It isn't. I know why, I know why you think it is, right? But it's like, what I will suggest to you is just like, the problem is.

Brad Dowdy: I'll go YouTube something.

Myke Hurley: The problem is, like, things get messed up because you end up with, like, Nespresso macchiatos, and it is the other way around.

Brad Dowdy: Sure. But if you're doing it. Instead of, like, a real barista style.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, where you would, you start with the milk, and then you add the espresso to the milk, and then it starts to, like, mix on its own. And it has this ombre look to it. Yeah. They shouldn't have done the Latte Art Finial, even though I love it because it does add that confusion. I think this is fantastic. It was an Insta purchase for me. The design is amazing. You will use the heck out of this pen. Yeah. I mean, I also just like the ombre design.

Brad Dowdy: I do, too. They did a good job. That was one of my ideas.

Gold Spot Pens Collaboration

Brad Dowdy: Back in the past, I had a specific colorway that I want to do in, like, this kind of gradient view, and then they came out with something similar. It's like, ugh. Yeah. So, and, like, I'm talking, like, you know, I don't want to say I'm talking bad about this pen. I like this pen overall. But, like, I have this, like, really concept-y type idea that I want to do if I ever do another Retro 51 that I think a lot of people will hate but I'll love, you know, kind of thing. Right? It's a real, it will be a real divisive idea if I ever did it. So, yeah, I can't talk too bad about it. So, people, when I come up with my really weird idea, people will hate it, and I'll just go, like, yeah, well, I like it.

Myke Hurley: I hope you do it because now I want to know what it is.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I might have told you in the past. I don't know. I will tell you because I don't know if I'll ever do it, and you might think I'm insane. But I have a really crystal clear idea of what I want. I just don't know if I'm brave enough to do it. How many do they make of these? Is this, like, a $9.99 type of deal? I bet so. Probably.

Myke Hurley: I didn't see that. I didn't notice.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, they'll sell every single one. They'll sell every single one. 773 pens. Does that mean something?

Myke Hurley: Significant to 17... I now want to return this pen.

Myke Hurley: I cannot believe what I'm about to read here. Oh, do it. Do it. This is absolutely mental. Right. This Gold Spot Pens Retro 51 collaboration is limited to 773 pens worldwide. Significant to 1773, the year of the Boston Tea Party. Dumping 342 chests of tea into the chilly Boston waters showed the British that American colonists were furious about taxation without representation. This act also made coffee the patriotic beverage of choice. This is the greatest day ever. Since that fateful day, the USA gained its independence and became one of the most productive economies in the world. While there are many people that contributed to the country's success, they were most likely fueled by the mighty coffee bean. What's up, loser? Goddamn, what is wrong with you idiots? What is this? What is this? This is insanity. What just happened? It doesn't even make any sense. It was like, oh, in 1773, everyone was drinking the mighty macchiato in America whilst throwing some tea chests into the river. God damn it.

Brad Dowdy: I'm so happy about my earlier stance on this.

Myke Hurley: The first paragraph is perfect, which is, the pen's barrel cascades from a rich espresso brown to a creamy white, the nulled top, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know? Cool. Macchiato. And then what did you go off the deep end for? What is wrong with you people? Can I just say as well? Because I'm in it now. Because lots of people like to try it. They'll say, you know, it's like Independence Day. And they say to me, like, oh, haha, this is the day we go. It's like, I need you to understand. No one here cares.

Myke Hurley: Nobody cares. Nobody in the United Kingdom cares that July 4th is America's Independence Day. It's like, it's not a thing for us. We're not like, oh, no, we lost the American. Like, we don't care. We really just don't care. Like, it's not a thing. And I just find it so strange that America continues to be so, like, just like, this is crazy. Right? Like, this is just crazy. Like, it's not even, like, it's not even July. Like, what are you doing?

Brad Dowdy: This is the greatest.

Myke Hurley: This is nothing. This is absolutely nothing.

Brad Dowdy: So, number one.

Myke Hurley: I am now going to hate this pen. Do you know what you've done to me, Goldspot? Like, now I'm going to be annoyed by this pen when it arrives. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: So, at one point, this pen wasn't even going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. This is the question. This wasn't even going to be in the show notes. And then all it was was Brad's curiosity. I swear I didn't read any of that. Like, I had no clue. I was like, what? What's. Like, we were wrapping up. We were ready to move on to the next thing. And now it's like one of the greatest segments we've ever done. Thank you, Myke.

Myke Hurley: I also just want to note. If you think that you need to provide me any feedback about this.

Myke Hurley: Don't want it.

Brad Dowdy: You don't. Oh, yeah. Throw it. Just go. Throw it. Throw it off.

Myke Hurley: It's tiny. I just got to take the pen and throw it in the Thames.

Brad Dowdy: And video it. And, like, put it on the Instagrams. Do it for the gram, Myke. You got this. Gosh. Oh, my gosh. We should take a break. Although, I think you're the one that needs the break. Gosh.

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Brad Dowdy: I think I'm going to start a new site. 1773 is for coffee. GoUSA.com.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, that's really good. I appreciate that.

Brad Dowdy: So I can't get off of this yet. Oh, really? I always talk about how I love the stories that we can tell about products and stuff, but sometimes you don't have to.

Myke Hurley: Sometimes you don't have to.

Brad Dowdy: It's okay. Sometimes you need just one story, not two stories.

Myke Hurley: Sometimes it's just a coffee pen. Sometimes. The story is, hey, we love coffee. Or even just like you can say, Americans love coffee. We want to celebrate. Like, and that is cool, right? Like, go for it. Americana was a macchiato for some reason, but Americana, right?

Coffee Culture

Myke Hurley: Why is the Boston Tea Party involved?

Brad Dowdy: I'm glad I could revisit this even after. Oh, there's no way I'm going to be able to do this next segment, Myke. It's too normal. After the Twisby ball and the hombre macchiato 1773. Oh, it's unbelievable. I talked about desk pens this week.

Myke Hurley: What? It's like Americans don't drink tea? Is this a thing now?

Myke Hurley: All right. It's like, you know, like coffee is like a really important part of culture in many places around the world. Like, especially like the macchiato, which is an Italian beverage, but it's yours now because you threw some tea in the river.

Brad Dowdy: Like, God damn it. Ocean. Ocean. All right. I had to take my glasses off to wipe the tears away.

Brad Dowdy: How am I supposed to do like a whole 10 minute segment? And I don't think I would be able to.

Myke Hurley: Like, what are you doing, Godspot?

Brad Dowdy: Like, what are you doing? Just imagine. We weren't even supposed to do that. Like, imagine if I didn't, if I wasn't curious how many pens they made.

Myke Hurley: Honestly, I'm so angry now.

Myke Hurley: And I was really excited about this pen. Yeah. But it's like, it's needled perfectly into a thing where it's like.

Brad Dowdy: Yep.

Myke Hurley: Where I feel like I can't get away from this. You know?

Myke Hurley: And now it's seeping into coffee pens for some reason. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brad Dowdy: All right. I think I'm under control, Myke. Let's talk about desk pens.

Myke Hurley: All right.

Brad Dowdy: And the idea of desk pens that aren't desk pens but could be desk pens. You with me? Are you tracking me so far? Yeah. So I did a review on Monday for the Platinum desk pen, right? So the idea, desk pens have been around for forever. Centuries. You know, came from quills into dip pens where you have to have, you know, the pen on a little holder and a little inkwell next to it. And you have the long skinny pen with the nib on it. And you dip it in there. It was a desk pen. It lived on your desk. It wasn't portable. You weren't throwing it in your pocket. And, you know, hopping on your horse and going to find a macchiata somewhere.

Myke Hurley: See, this is the thing. You can't say, you can't just be like, oh, I'm going to leave it now. And then not leave it now. Because, like, I'm just sitting here. I'm getting, I'm stewing over here. I'm getting more mad. Like, this has ruined the episode for me. Because, like, I'm just sitting here now and I can't stop thinking about it.

Myke Hurley: You know?

Brad Dowdy: It's great. So.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, they probably.

Desk Pen Discussion

Brad Dowdy: I wonder what they signed, like, some of the paperwork when, like, the tea was coming over. Right?

Myke Hurley: I mean, also, because, like, you know, now it's like, here we go. Right? Like, no, you know, I'm not going to go there. I'm not going to go there. Right? I'm not going to go. I was going to get on a road that I'm probably going to. I would definitely regret where I'm talking about, like, who is it that actually was left after the independence? Right? Like, you know, there were people there before. And, like, they didn't really feel. I'm stopping. I'm stopping. I'll pick it up here. You've got to stop so I don't do this to myself and cancel the show before we get to 500.

Brad Dowdy: Well, you actually put a good note in here about this desk pen. So, the modern desk pen, Myke, became, you know, like, in the 1900s. Like, it became, like, the real, like, you know, hoity-toity desk pen, you know, in all the bigwigs offices, right? You know, you had your desk pen. And eventually morphed into, like, it was always, you know, fountain pens for dipping. And then fountain pens came with cartridges. And then they morphed into, like, ballpoints and rollerballs and all these desk pens. Everyone knows what a desk pen set looks like, right? It's, like, you would cringe, like, if you got one as a graduation gift now, right? That was what you got back in the 80s and 90s, you know, from grandma when she was looking after you, you know, for your graduation gift. But nowadays, I only think of desk pens when I think of what this platinum is. And to me, I wish they would just kind of call it an art pen or a drawing pen because it's, like, it has this desk pen idea, right? It's this long, skinny, tapered barrel. It's very lightweight. It's made for, like, large flowing motions. And it has that balance for that. And I see artists mainly using this type of pen, right? It just gives them, like, the leverage and the angle. You can drop really far back. You can use it like a brush. You know, you can put your fingers, you know, like, two or three inches away from the nib and just kind of really go to town on it. I love them. I love using them and writing them. But what most people think of desk pens now is, like, what Evan says in the chat, all my pens are desk pens because I never go anywhere. And that's – I actually have a category of pen that I talk about to myself because I don't have anyone else to talk about that are desk pens. Yeah, yeah. Like, an hour a week, like I talk about. We talk about desk pens. But, like, I literally have – when I was doing this review, I was like, I have this desk pen. But I have a group of pens that are my desk pens, and they are almost universally not fountain pens. And I'll get into why is that in a second. But your question was kind of about this platinum. It says, I don't understand a pen having all the looks of a desk pen, but none of what actually makes it a desk pen. What makes a desk pen to you?

Myke Hurley: Well, I feel like a desk pen should have something that makes it, like, that it lives on the desk. Not that I've chosen to put it on a desk. Right. Because then it's, like, everything's in the desk. Here's my desk computer. Here's my desk cup. Here's my – you know what I mean? Like, I feel like a desk pen, to warrant that, would need to have, like, here's the little wooden thing it's kept on. Or, like, the traditional of, like, here's the little ink bottle that's built into this block of wood that the pen rests on when you're not using it kind of thing, you know? Like, that's, like, it feels like that's, like, a whole –

Brad Dowdy: It's almost like a kit. It's like a setup. Like, a desk pen's like a setup. But, honestly, my platinum desk pen lives in my pen well, if you can believe that or not. That makes sense, though. I mean, that fits.

Myke Hurley: Like, thematically, that fits. Which is the thing about the platinum desk pen. What I don't understand about it is, like, they've made it look like a desk pen. Mm-hmm. But it has none of the things that make a desk pen a desk pen. Right. It just looks like one. And I don't – and I feel like I don't understand why you would want this.

Brad Dowdy: It's – that's why I think the modern name – and Lamy does this, too. Lamy makes this style of pen, but they just call it the Lamy Joy. They don't say this is the Lamy desk pen, right?

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Like, if for some reason you want that or you like the look of that or you're used to it, but you don't need the whole kit and caboodle anymore, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, I understand. But it's strange to me to be, like, hey, this is a desk pen. It has a cap on it, and you can put it in your bag if you want.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And where I see these the most is I'll see, like, three or four of them in, like, an artist pen pouch, right? With, like, different nibs, different inks, and things like that. Yeah. More than I'll ever see them on a desk. So maybe platinum – I mean, this is, like, a traditional platinum product, and maybe it's time for them to just do like Lamy did and just give it a product name because no one's using this as a desk pen anymore. Or it's only a desk pen in name in that it's really – it's not super portable unless you're putting it in a larger case or something like that, right? So, you know, with this type of shape, it's definitely not portable, you know, in concept. But I just – I see these all over the place. Like, they're in artist's brush bags, like, all the time. So it's a super interesting pen. I love it. But what I was getting at with my desk pens, not the platinum desk pen, is it's almost universally not fountain pens. It's, like, markers and rollerballs and ballpoints and pencils and highlighters, like stuff that I really don't necessarily use around the house or take with me. I take my fountain pens with me because I'll usually take a notebook, and that notebook might be in a case, and then that case I'll throw in a fountain pen because I like using the fountain pen with that type of book, and those just kind of go around with me almost universally. Like, there's – I guess there's the Platinum Preppy and the TWSBI Swipe I do keep on my desk, but those are, like, good desk pens because they're fountain pens, but they're not going to dry out. They're cheap. I don't have to worry about cleaning them, like, religiously, like I have to do for all of my other traditional fountain pens. Like, they're made to, you know, be inked up for a while and not have any negative reactions. But, like, I'm just staring around. I wish – I should do a live count here. Let's do a live count of how many pens Brad has on his desk in sight right now. Is this desk, like, just hanging out on the desk, or are they, like, in things? Yeah, they're in things. Let me count, and then I'll tell you how they are. Seven. Okay.

Myke Hurley: There's a lot counting happening right now.

Myke Hurley: Is he still counting?

Brad Dowdy: I had to lean to look around. 34. I got 34.

Brad Dowdy: There's, like, a bunch of mechanical pencils, right? So I have one, two, three containers that they're in, and then there's some stuff that's just laying down. So I have this Rhodia kind of, like, pen cup that's probably got, like, 15 pens in it. I have a Keras Customs Dudek block that's got nine pens. I have a different Dudek little block that has three pens. I have the Lucren desk pen holder. I forget the name of this. It's got, like, three pens on it. I have my Smand case. It's got two pens. Smand. It's got two pens. Well, excuse me. It's got one pencil and one pen on it. And then I have, like, I'm using a Kaweco for my show notes today. So I got that. So, yeah. But it's all stuff that is not necessarily used on a daily basis, but is very useful when I want to do the specific thing with them, right? Like, the mechanical pencils I'll probably use close to every day just because they're generally, like, my noting, not a note-taking pen, but a notating pen, right? The difference of that is they're not going to do the long writing, but they might, like, do a highlight or a markup on a page, right, or a little sidebar type of thing. That's usually done with a mechanical pencil. I have marker pens, like, fineliners, right? You think of them like fineliners, like Stadler Triplus fineliner. I have the Kuretake Sigma Ngaka that I love. Like, that is also, like, a notating pen, right? It helps me do my calendar and things like that. And then I'll use a marker if I need to do, like, some bold lettering in my planner, something like that. And then I'll have gel ink pens that I like to take a break from, fountain pens from. And then I have rollerball pens that I used yesterday when I was addressing envelopes. It's not member chips. And it's just like, this is the stuff that helps me get the things done, but aren't like, hey, let me sit and write with my Montegrappa Elmo with the extra fine nib and the really cool magenta ink in it and have this, you know, really great experience writing that I've built for myself. These are more like the tools, the tools of the trade. And they just sit here. And those are my desk pens. And that's what I think of with desk pens these days as opposed to, like, the platinum desk pen. So I have this whole, like, thing built in my head of how I do things. And that's how I try to explain it, at least try to justify it to myself why I had, what did I say, 34 pens, like, in visual appearances here on my desk. So, yeah, there you go. That's a lot of pens and pencils and highlighters and spans.

Myke Hurley: I have 12 pens on my desk. And then I have Sinclair that has six pens in it, sometimes on the desk, sometimes somewhere else.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. I didn't count my Brasstown that has my fountain pens in it. I have six fountain pens in it.

Myke Hurley: So then I have 12. So of the 165 pens that are on your desk right now, you're telling me none of them have ink in them? Because you're always saying you never have more than three pens inked up, and I don't know how that's possible. No, no, no, no. If you have 30-something pens.

Brad Dowdy: So fountain pen-wise, I definitely, I usually creep up to about 10 fountain pens inked at a time before I start to have, like, a panic attack and need to start cleaning things. So I have six fountain pens in a Brasstown. Then I have a Kaweco Sport that I'm using right now that I just inked up this morning for a very specific reason. Then I'm testing out the Kaweco Premium Extra Fine nib that I got. I have the Platinum Desk Pen, which stays inked on the desk with the Platinum Carbon Black ink. It's an inexpensive pen, so I don't mind just keeping it filled here on the desk because Platinum, in this desk pen, they use the slip and seal cap. So it keeps it, you know, from drying out. Same thing with the Platinum Preppy, which I have on my desk. The Purpanep version of the pen also has the slip and seal cap. It does not get cleaned out regularly. And then I have the TWSBI Swipe, which I am doing a test long-term to see how the TWSBI Blue cartridges and the TWSBI Swipe compares to something like the Platinum Preppy. Right. Just for a rarely used fountain pen that you just kind of pick up and use. So the fountain pens in my pen case, which I would have to open up to see exactly what I have going on in there, those are the ones I worry about filling and cleaning, right? That's those six plus the Kaweco I just inked up. The rest of it is made to exist in a long-term type of setup on the desk. Right.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Brad Dowdy: Very nice. So what is your ratio of your 12 pens? How many are fountain pens? Because I always picture you with your big block of fountain pens, like 30-something fountain pens in front of you. That's not necessarily the case. So nine of the 12 are fountain pens.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And the rotation on those is, we don't have to keep going over this, but it's a pretty low rotation. Like you just keep those inked up with they are what they are.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I'll have these for a couple of months, and when they're starting to run out, I will take them home, refill the ones that I want to keep and swap out the ones, swap out some for some that are at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I keep trying new stuff.

Brad Dowdy: Gotcha. Cool. So yeah, I have like, I don't know, it's just weird. I almost think of my fountain pens as more portable than almost all of my other writing utensils.

Myke Hurley: Right.

Brad Dowdy: I don't know, there's probably some psychological thing about that, about how I want to use things and, you know, the different appreciations of different products and, you know, a whole litany of things.

Myke Hurley: Should we finish up today's really weird episode with some hashtag last TPA?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, we have a good batch to go through, so let's try to get them all.

Myke Hurley: Wow, really? Oh, we'll see. We'll see how they go. There's a lot. Curtis asks, why do all pen clips suck? I know they're designed to go in a shirt pocket, but I don't wear any of those kinds of shirts. I'd like to clip it onto my jeans pocket, but this always makes the clip bend out and stop being so useful. Not only that, but then some rattle against the pen body. Do you know of any brands that have a great clip that would work well on jeans? If not, I'll just keep considering the clip as a roll stop and tucking the whole thing into my pocket.

Brad Dowdy: I love the angst in this question. Like, I mean, are you going to argue with Curtis? No. No, absolutely not. We're not going to argue with you, Curtis.

Myke Hurley: Clips are, I think in general, they're meant to just attach to thin things, whether it's like the cover of a notebook or a shirt pocket. And once you start getting to thicker things, you end up in a situation where the metal's just going to bend. Like, that's just kind of the way. I think physics are not going to be your friend too much here.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, I love clips on pens. I'm also completely fine without clips on pens. I get the challenge that a lot of products have with clips as someone who helps design things with clips or without clips and having to decide whether to do it or not. And then if you decide to do it, did you do it well enough to not be, to not take away from the actual writing of the product because the clip is so poor, right? Does it become a distraction because it's so bad? It's like, it's really hard to get a clip design right. It's like, right. And it takes a lot of work and a lot of effort. It takes as much to get the clip design right as it does to get the pen body and the entirety of how the pen works is equivalent to designing a good clip. It's really hard to do. And some products, you'll find a lot of the machine pens, like I'm looking at a tactile turn right now, that's like a really strong stout clip. But if you go to the store shelf, shelf, you're going to find almost nothing with like a strong stout clip, right? Like if you're just going to get something off the shelf, like your EnerGels or, you know, your, one of my favorite pens with the worst clips ever is the Uniball Signo 207 and 307. It's just a great, great pen and it's just a terrible clip. So it's like a lot of this plastic, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's just flimsy and it's going to break if you've stuck it in your jeans. So you almost have to go to like these custom makers who are make, building their own clips to use for like more, a more carrying purposes, right? Like to, to, to clip to a jeans pocket or, you know, to clip to a backpack or things like that. So it's, it's a challenge. Like when you find a good clip, like you, you kind of take note of that. And that list is pretty short. Like I love our spoke design clips and our spoke roadie clips, but you know, every now and then someone will just like overcook them, right? Like, and just like bend it out. And it's just like, well, like, yeah, we'll, we'll replace it. But it's like, it's such a challenge to get a really, really good clip design.

Myke Hurley: So I always think of clips as roll stops. Like that's what they are for me. I don't clip pens to anything. It's because also it's just not a thing I want to do. It's not just, oh, I don't do it because I can't. Like it's just not ever a feature that I'm looking for because it's not how I use these products.

Brad Dowdy: Right. I'm pretty clip agnostic. It's like, I get it for the roll stop features, but I, if I really like the pen and it doesn't have a clip, that's not like a consideration for me.

Myke Hurley: I mean, it really isn't a thing I think about. Like I would say to you, most of my pens don't have clips. I think that's wrong. I think most of my pens do, but I think about it so little that it's not a thing for me. Exactly right. Because also clips can ruin the design or like can detract from the design.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, I talk about that all the time. Clips are almost, if I talk about the clip, it's almost always going to be negative in a review, right? Otherwise it just exists and does its job. But if it starts getting in the way or it's really poor, that's when I start talking about it, right? It's just one of those things. It's like the umpires or the referees, right? You don't ever notice the good ones because they just make the right calls and go on about their business. You only notice the bad ones because there's been some huge mistake.

Myke Hurley: Kyle writes in, I am a university student studying economics at the University of California, Davis. And I'm looking... I didn't know what the name is. It's, yeah. University of California, Davis. Yes. And I'm looking for recommendations for paper, pens, and ink for doing math and economics. Due to how we need to draw graphs and solve equations, I'm looking for something that is a very fine nib and an ink and paper combination that dries very quickly as I currently suffer from a lot of smudging while working through some problems. Thank you so much for your help. Your podcast and blog has been extremely helpful for getting into the fountain pen world over the past year.

Brad Dowdy: So Kyle did not specifically say they wanted a fountain pen, even though the way they write this, saying they want a very fine nib and thanks for getting me into fountain pen worlds, would you assume they want a fountain pen? Because if not, I'm going to recommend the Jetstream and the Jetstream Edge.

Myke Hurley: So I'm going to say, I think they might be asking for a fountain pen and I'm going to maybe say that is not the right product for what they're looking for here.

Brad Dowdy: It's like, it can be done, right? So what I would recommend, if we're going to do a fountain, we'll do it both ways. If we're going to recommend a fountain pen, I'm going to tell you to start with the Pilot Metropolitan with an extra fine nib and the ink is going to be a challenge. I would just stick with Pilot's blue or one of Pilot's stock inks are going to be fine. They don't dry really quick though. Hiroshi Zuko dries fast. Hiroshi Zuko does dry faster, but then you have to have, I guess the Pilot comes with that little converter, little squeeze converter, which is just very, very average.

Brad Dowdy: And then mixing it in with a paper, it's going to be a balance again from dry time.

Brad Dowdy: And like, you don't want something like Rhodia, even though it's going to be like an exquisite fountain pen, extra fine nib experience, it's going to extend your dry time.

Brad Dowdy: Gosh, this is, this is harder than I thought it would be. I'm trying to think of like, what the good, the good papers are. Like the Kukuyo, like the Kukuyo campus is always like the student quality paper that Kukuyo makes. And it does a really, really good job at balancing dry time and quality. And also price for like, like if you're doing equations in like math and economics, like the way Kukuyo makes their campus notebooks to where they're like 30 pages each, right? You can like go through, it's kind of built for this type of work to just like, you know, you work through all these problems and work through, through all your ideas, but you're not committing like a 200 page, like Leuch term, you know, to necessarily doing that, which like, that's a good balanced paper that's going to give you good performance while contributing good dry time. I would probably like to discuss this more with Kyle, like indirectly, like through email. And like, we could really nail down, like, can we find the perfect pen, the perfect ink combination, the perfect paper? But I think I'm trying to get a little bit too broad here. Even though it's a, it's a pretty challenging answer and it should be easy, but I think I'm making it a little bit difficult. So I want to get some more clarity from Kyle. So shoot me another email, Kyle, and we'll, we'll see, see what I can do. But, but we've got some starting points. I'm starting with probably the Pilot Metro Extra Fine. Yep. And Pilot's Black Ink and then a paper like Kukuyo Campus, Leuch Term, even though that's not the right format, probably that you want. Loose sheets. If you want loose sheets, the Kukuyo makes, like, like, copy paper, like in 500 sheet reams. If you want loose sheets and kind of build your own type of notebooks. Yeah. I'm not sure what,

Myke Hurley: what, what they would be looking for format wise, but I'm pretty sure it's not Moleskine, Leuch Term. No, no, no. You know what I mean? Like, I know that's what you're saying, right?

Brad Dowdy: I'm thinking of more of a paper feel, right? Dry time is going to be very important for Kyle and that's, that's the challenge. So like,

Myke Hurley: I probably expect larger pages. Probably a four would be my expectation. Right. What about Rodia?

Brad Dowdy: No, that's what I'm saying. It's just too slick. It's just, it's like, it's like,

Myke Hurley: it's like, yeah, okay. It's a good point. For dry time. About that. Like, I would, feels good. I would choose bad. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. Yeah. But like for the answer to this question, I think that's completely the wrong answer.

Myke Hurley: Matt asks, if I wanted to order some custom letter sheets and envelopes with my name printed on them that would work well for both fountain pens and typewriters, what companies should I be looking at or is that impossible? So I think what Matt's asking for is like, custom stationery, like letterhead stationery, which is super classy. Matt is a very classy individual. So yeah,

Brad Dowdy: this is our good friend at MB, who I talked with a lot about this. Like we went back and forth in the DMs. I was really working to figure this out because I think a lot of our listeners would like to know this answer. And even if we excluded the typewriters, which I didn't do for Matt, we talked about that. And the issue is getting the custom letterhead with the good paper. It always has been, right? We've actually seen companies like Rise and Fall trying to do this because getting something that's like a universal type paper and getting it customized is really hard. like it's a really complex thing to do, right? If you, if we get a good fountain pen paper and you're able to put letterhead on it, it's going to be very expensive and it may not be the best paper for someone who just uses roller balls or ball points and then vice versa, right? So none of the companies that have ever tried to do this have been super fountain pen specific, at least not that I've found. And I've, I even asked around, like I was talking to some people about, hey, can we build something that would answer this question about, you know, this custom letterhead, fountain pen compatible and also, so Matt was talking about like for typewriters, basically wants loose sheets, right? That are at least like sizable, right? Like at least a minimum of A5 but would take, you know, your more A4 style. So that's what they were looking for as far as like the typewriter type compatibility went in that it would be a loose sheet that was not overly thick, right? So it could, it could manage the turn in the typewriter and also be like sizable enough to like do some effective, effective typing. I will say, yeah.

Myke Hurley: The typewriter is really what throws a spanner in the works here more than anything else I feel.

Brad Dowdy: Well, that's why I talked to them a bunch about this, right? Trying to get the thing and you know what our answer was? There was no answer. Like I was like, I'm trying really hard because I want to know this because I think we would get a lot of questions about this than we have in the past and there's no good answer. And so...

Myke Hurley: I feel like the only way you can do this is you find the paper. There probably is something that would do a decent enough job and then you have to send it to a local printer and have them learn how to do it for you. Yeah. So I... That's the only way I could imagine doing this but like we first got to start and find the papers.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Well, that's kind of where we left it. I was like, hey, here's a bunch of paper that I think would be good. It's now, are we going to do like the custom stuff on top of that? Well, we're like doing this cross-pollination thing that really no one has ever either been able to solve or is interested in.

Myke Hurley: The properties that make paper good for each of these do not lend itself to the other one. So like good fountain pen paper might be not good typewriter paper and vice versa.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think the real challenge is the customization. customization. Like that's where the main hangups are in my opinion. You're going to have to find

Myke Hurley: a local printer and type in those for it basically.

Brad Dowdy: Like again, you go right back to the Kikuyo. Mm-hmm. A4, 500 ream, take 100 sheets, go get them letter pressed or however you want, you know, your logos or your name or an address on there and take those to a printer and get those, you know, 100 sheets done. Those are going to be good for typewriters but then you don't have like an envelope to match so you'd have to find like the envelopes.

Myke Hurley: Unfortunately, Matt's going to have to start their own company. Like it's the only way. Well,

Brad Dowdy: you know them like I know them, you know, right? So the question came up is like, well, how about we just do it together and we both just laugh. so they are into all different types of companies and getting things started and it was just funny. I feel like you shouldn't have put that

Myke Hurley: in their brain to be honest.

Brad Dowdy: I know.

Myke Hurley: You don't have a problem on it.

Brad Dowdy: We just started it and it was like, well, we can't solve it outside of us so how about we just get together and solve it together

Myke Hurley: and then we both

Brad Dowdy: just went kind of ha ha LOL.

Brad Dowdy: Neither of us wanted to do it which is why none of these companies ever work, right? It's like, it ends up being like way too expensive and too finicky to like actually make this business successful or else I think we would have seen more of it by now.

Myke Hurley: Super particular. Yep. All right. If you would like to send in a question of your own, you can just use hashtag ask TPA as a tweet or you can use question mark ask TPA in the Relay FM members discord if you have a longer question. you can send it by email to hello at penaddict.com I would like to personally apologize for the episode today.

Myke Hurley: You know, just putting that out there. Remember all of the goodwill you have towards me over the last 497 episodes before you open your email client. And also remember none of that email goes to me.

Brad Dowdy: As chat reminded everyone the email goes to me so fire away.

Myke Hurley: you know. You go wild. If you want to find Brad online you go to at dowdyism D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M He is penaddict on Instagram. I am not on any of these services so don't even try and find me. You can also find Brad on Twitch. He is penaddict on Twitch. Twitch.tv slash penaddict Brad streams three times a week. Tuesdays, Thursdays 10 a.m. Eastern and after we finish recording the live show on Wednesdays Brad also goes live as well. Thanks to Squarespace for the support of this show and most importantly thank you for listening and we'll be back next time for episode 498. Until then, say goodbye Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Goodbye Brad.