The Pen Addict 487/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	487
Title:	The State of Stationery
Release Date:	November 10th, 2021
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 487
Audio File:	Audio Episode 487
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 487
Length:	6161 min <br />1.017 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 487. Today's show is brought to you by Ooni Pizza Ovens, Harry's, and Kenro Industries. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad.

Brad: Hey Myke, how's it going?

Myke: Pretty good, my friend. How are you?

Brad: I think pretty good, you know, to be determined. We'll see how this show goes. That'll affect my read the rest of the day.

Myke: I'm pretty excited about today's topic.

Brad: Oh yeah, you think?

Myke: Why wouldn't I be?

Introduction

Brad: Well, I mean, because it's going to be me rambling incoherently for like 30 minutes.

Myke: Right, that's fair enough.

Brad: You're like, yeah, that's accurate.

Myke: Yeah, I mean, that's what I tune in for.

Brad: Oh, okay, yeah. You know me, the man with the clean copy, right, is this guy right here. So, we're just going to ramble for a while on the state of stationary, Myke, and that should be an interesting topic.

Myke: I mean, it doesn't really seem no different to any other episode, but we'll find out. True. How's Nanokomo going for you? Good, I think. Do you want to think of Pericomo is now what I think of whenever I say that?

Brad: You, yes. Me, not so much. But yeah, go with that. That's what I think of. Yeah, that sounds right for you. I get that. Nanokomo, to me, just sounds like super fake, made-up thing, but that's what I'm good at is super fake, made-up things. Or we can go with Nanokomo. I like that, too. That sounds like Kokomo. That's it. Yeah, that's definitely up your alley. Like, this is strictly you, right? Like, that is... Aruba.

Myke: Let's keep singing. Why does... Why? What has happened to me where I just keep finding new songs to sing on this show? I don't know why this has occurred. I think you're to blame, though.

Brad: I mean, I'll take the blame. I don't do anywhere else. I'll take the blame. Like, it's fair. Blame well-placed, I think. So, we'll take it. We like the distractions every now and then. It's good to have fun on the podcast, Myke, and that's what we do.

Myke: So, is that where you want to go? Straight down to Nanokomo?

Brad: Yeah, let's go straight down to Nanokomo. God, this is going to be a problem for 20 more days after this.

Myke: You're lucky I'm taking some time. Actually, no. It's all of November, right? I'm here for all of November. So, you've got this.

Brad: Yeah. All right. So, overall, I have to say it's going well. Okay. I have not been perfect. And, you know, when we talked about me trying to do this and then did a quick update last week, I talked about how what I am trying to do is not a creativity problem, which is what the traditional Nanowimo helps people with.

Nanowrimo Progress

Myke: You do not have writer's block issues.

Brad: Right. So, for me, it's solving – it's a time management, you know, equation that I'm trying to solve, right? So, how can I find the time to write the words that I want to hit to reach a goal by the end of November, right?

Myke: And also, there is – so, you know, people might say, well, there's always a time management issue with Nanowimo anyway. But one of the benefits of Nanowimo is creative fulfillment, you know? Like, you might not worry so much about spending a lot of time because you're on, like, a real kick and, like, the words are just flowing out of you. Right. You never get that because all you are doing is just transcribing, you know? There is never a moment where you can be like, oh, man, I can't wait to get this part done. Like, it's not going to – there isn't any real difference in that.

Brad: Right, and the challenge that I have is I really – like, a 15-minute block doesn't do me any good where if I was doing Nanowimo, I could be sitting in the carpool and banging out, you know, 200 words, you know, on my phone real quick and then, you know, catch that later. And just do that a few times a day and kind of get to a spot. But with me, what I'm having a problem with is trying to fit in two-hour blocks. And that's probably the wrong way of looking at it. Like, I get that, right? I should take my 30 minutes when I can and write two pages or one page. I can get, like, one page done. You know, 300 words takes me about 25 minutes. So I don't have these stop and start blocks. I'm having to find these huge blocks of time to sit and write. Right, and this past Saturday, I had no time and, you know, just, like, literally no time to, like, stop and put the pen to the paper because when I wasn't doing whatever thing I was doing on Saturday, I just wanted to sit. Like, I didn't want to be writing. Like, I wanted a break. So, you know, I didn't have that much time. So I was like, okay, today's going to be a miss. So I got zero on Saturday. But I also knew Sunday I would have a decent amount of time to at least, you know, get back on the goal, if not more. Which my goal is 1,500 words a day. That's five written pages. That only puts me at 45,000 words for the month. So, you know, that's around, that's what I'm shooting for. So I would love to hit 50, and I still can. So when I hit these zeros, like, I don't necessarily plan on making it up the next day because, like, that's, you know, a snowball. That goes downhill really fast. You can't get behind any time, which I think we talked about last week. So Sunday I caught up with 2,400 words, right? I didn't do, like, a full 3,000 that would have taken two days worth of writing into one. But I got 2,400, and I was like, hey, I feel pretty good about that. So, and then I missed yesterday. So I've already missed a second day, and I'm already trying to make up for it this morning. So I've been writing before we got online this morning. So it's figuring out when the times are for me to write. And my days are so busy. My days are so chopped up. Like, I don't have a lot of bulk in physically handwriting this book. I need to feel like I have a certain writing setup for at least, you know, 30 minutes to an hour to commit, or else I'm not going to sit and do anything.

Myke: See, this is why I would ask what the desired result is of this. Like, do you want to have done 50,000 words at the end, so you've done that over the month? Or are you really trying to just do some every day? Like, they're two different things, and they have different solves for them.

Brad: I am... Do you see what I'm asking you? Yes, even though I kind of see them the same thing. Because if I hit number one, I'm generally going to get... I'll be happy with number two, even though I didn't do it every single day.

Myke: Exactly, but that's my point. At the end of it, if you've hit 50,000 words, but you skipped 10 days... Right. Is that the achievement that you want? Okay. Yes.

Brad: I want the bulk. I want the bulk. You want the bulk.

Myke: All right. Cool. Then, yeah. Yeah. All right. So how much time does it take you every day to do the daily quota?

Brad: About two and a half hours.

Myke: Okay.

Brad: So, and I've been finding the time at night to do that. That's a lot of day, man. It is. It is. That's a lot of time. So, and, like, during, like, the daytime, say, like, your waking hours up until, like, say, early evening, my days are generally full, right? Mm-hmm. So what I've been doing is I've been writing at night, say, from, like, 8 to 10 p.m. or 9 to 11, trying to get as much as I can get done. And I can get most of it done during that time. And I'm, like, okay with that. Like, that's worked out pretty well. The thing, honestly, that's keeping me going is that I really am enjoying doing this. You know, it doesn't feel like a chore or torture or anything like that. That's good. But as I've gotten into, after I got to about day three, I realized that I'm kind of enjoying doing this, that I can zone out, and I don't, I just end up writing the pages and not necessarily have the count, even though I generally know in the back of my head what the count's like.

Brad: So, yeah, it's, I'm actually really enjoying it, and that makes me want to push to finish it and, or at least meet my goals. And, you know, I like using the pens. I like, I like using the paper. I'm enjoying reading the book again that I chose, which is The Bone Weaver's Orchard. So, I'm at, I'm to the point now in the book, even though I know the story, I'm at the point where I can't read the book fast enough because I want to remember what happens next, even though I've already read it, you know? So, that keeps me going. That's like, well, I got to write the words so I can keep reading the story because I'm enjoying the story and writing the words about it. So, it's like this self-fulfilling prophecy type of thing that's wanting to push me to move it along because I am enjoying it that much. So, it's a big learning experience, right? This is a very different thing for me. Um, it's still physically hard, right? By the time I get to, like, I'm good for about four pages when I get to the fifth page when I'm doing it all in one session, say like that two, two and a half hour block. When I get to the last page, my hand is exhausted, right? Like, my wrist is just tired and I have to push through to get to that fifth page. But if I'm going to do it, I can't, I don't like stopping short on a day. If anything, I'll want to go to the goal or over. But like, I don't really do great with like a 600 word day. Like, that wouldn't, I tend to not start those days. Those days end up being zero, probably more times than not. And that's probably a mistake in the way I'm trying to figure this out, right? So, like, I had maybe about 45 minutes before we jumped on today between all my tasks this morning and when we started recording. So, I got 500 words down on the page. Awesome. So, I'm already behind from yesterday. So, I will have a block of about maybe 45 minutes this afternoon. And then I won't be free again until 7, 730 tonight. And then I'll write some more. So, it's really, it's really figuring out the time management. Really letting myself free up to write for 15 minutes. 15 minutes is all I have, which I haven't been doing. Like, I haven't figured that part out yet mentally because I do like the properness of, you know, making it look good. You know, does my handwriting look good? If I'm writing in the car, is everything going to be worse? And, you know, I'm not going to be able to hold everything, you know, how I want it laid out. And, you know, I'm all convoluted trying to write. And do I just get frustrated? Like, that's a negative for me. Like, if I get, if I'm ever frustrated writing, like, it's not going to go well. And, you know, that it either looks bad or I'm uncomfortable. So, I haven't really pushed those small time frames very much, which is leading to some misses. But, overall, I'm happy with the mindset that I am enjoying what I'm doing. And I wasn't sure I was going to, to be perfectly honest, right? All right. So, let's talk about some of the tools that I'm using. Not too much. It's still, obviously, a work in progress. So, I did some quick math, just so you know. On the nine days that we've had up until now, I've done 39 pages, 300 words a page, 11,700 words. So, that puts me at, like, 1,300 words a day. So, that's, like, the scope. That doesn't sound bad. But the more days I miss, the worse that number looks, right? Yeah. Like, it's harder to get that number up than it is to, than it is to lower it and make it look worse. So, anyway. I've used, I kind of pick a different pen per day, right? Like, I'm not basing it on chapters or pages. But, like, about every five pages, I switch. So, I've used one, two, three. So, I've used nine pens so far. So, we're on to day 10. I'll be using my 10th pen. All been fountain pens so far. I will soon switch over to doing some more standard pens, some pencils, just to see how that goes. Like, what I'm, am I going to enjoy writing with that? Am I going to enjoy, like, the process as much as I've been enjoying using my pens and inks?

Myke: Have you had any hand fatigue?

Brad: Definitely.

Pen Materials Variation

Myke: I'm wondering if it'll be any different with different material, like, different pens or pencils or whatever.

Brad: Yep. That's totally what I want to try to gauge. I didn't, what I should have done at the beginning, since all the fountain pens are kind of different, you know, different shapes, different weights, different feel, to kind of have, like, just a feel rating. Like, say, like, a one through ten, when I'm done with this session, was, like, you know, did I feel pretty okay? Like, not so great? Or, like, really terrible? And I didn't track that. Because there's been some days where I've barely been able to finish. So, yeah, I want to know with some of these other pens and pencils, how or if I notice a difference in the way I write with a fountain pen nib versus a standard pen or pencil. So, we'll see. That will be coming up soon. Maybe next week we will discuss that. So, yeah, I've, you know, knocked out three pens so far. Like, I've drained them, you know, from whatever they were inked up with. So, that feels good. So, like, overall, big picture, I'm happy with how it's going. I'm still working on figuring some things out even ten days into it. But I'm going to keep going. Like, there's no end in sight. I'm just going to see how far I can get and how much I can push it.

Myke: All right. Let's take a break. We've got a lot to get to today. All right. This episode is brought to you in part by our friends at Harry's. If you're heading back into the office, you might think it's time to get back that fresh, clean, all-business look, and Harry's can help. If you don't know Harry's, it's time you do. Harry's was created to be different from other shaving companies. They craft high-quality, long-lasting blades with durable weighted handles that make a close, comfortable shave quick and enjoyable. And because Harry's insists that you shouldn't have to choose between a great shave and a fair price, they just give you both. With refill blades that start as low as $2, it is an easy decision. And new Harry's customers get their starter set, which includes a five-blade razor, weighted handle, foaming shave gel with aloe, and travel cover for just $30. It's a $13 value, I should say. You get all of that stuff for just $3, which is an incredible deal. Plus, Harry's offers a whole range of amazing face and body care products delivered right to your door. Brad, I know that you love Harry's, right?

Brad: I do. You got to get the deal. It's like the biggest no-brainer deal of all the deals. And as you know, Myke, I'm back to the office, right? Like my desk in my room. And I want to look good every time I show up to work. You're streaming. I do. Big, big streaming boy over here. Got to look good. So it's funny. Still to this day, as old as I am, I still only shave every other day. And Harry's makes me look awesome every stream day, which happens to be Tuesdays and Thursdays is when I'm the most clean shaven. And I thank Harry's for that.

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Brad: Big topic today, Myke. Chunky. Chunky topic. Interesting topic. So I have titled this segment of the show The State of Stationery. And that's a big, broad, bold topic. And my thoughts contained within are not necessarily big and bold and broad, but are just kind of my current thinking on where we're at right now. Like, we got to a couple of questions last week for the show that weren't directly related, but you can see the links to them. And we were going to go through them last week. And I said, give me some time to at least think about this. You know, rub the two brain cells that I have together and see what I can come up with. The first question from Blue Magister. Are we in peak pen? Not much new tech, but endless variations of existing products. Where is the innovation going to come from? And then a separate question the same day, shortly after, from Doc Krog, both of these on Twitter. I'm always interested to hear your guys' thoughts on the rise in cost of materials. Field notes just sent an email talking about their soon-to-be-raised prices again. Is this just the way things are? Oh, this is just the way things are, of course. But where do you guys think this trend leads? Right? So those are big questions, right? That's not a 240-character response type of questions. But these are the types of questions I love because I think about this stuff all the time. But don't really have, like, the deep knowledge inner workings of the big pen companies, right? Like, we don't necessarily know. Like, I'm not going through, you know, pilots annual reports to see how the pen business is going necessarily. But I look at it more from, you know, where I sit and almost from a consumer perspective to kind of get a feel of where I think these are, right? Like, I'm not an analyst, right? I'm not writing documentation and getting all the numbers. But I'm just kind of thinking about how I feel about the industry right now. So I thought I would try to tackle that a little bit today. How's that sound?

Myke: Yeah, it sounds awesome.

Brad: All right. So I tried to think about this with a little bit of a breakdown in mind. Kind of three categories to go through. At least this is kind of how I think of stationery for me personally. And, you know, there's, again, this is an open-ended conversation. I'm not saying any of this stuff is factually correct or accurate. It's just kind of how I see it, how I kind of feel about it. And I would love to hear some feedback on this. Tell me where I'm right. Tell me where I'm wrong. Tell me what else I need to be considering. So things like that as we go through this. So three categories I decided to break this conversation down were your standard pens, right? The stuff you buy at the store or your basic, you know, $1 to $3 pen, your gel pens, your ballpoints. You know, they could be just the basic stuff off the shelf. They could be, you know, something you buy that you go on the hunt for on the internet, stuff like that. Then the second category I listed was specialty stationery. I think a lot of us are in this realm to where, like, this is where things like the bullet journals come in and the Midori Traveler's Notebook come in. And we'll talk about what I feel is like the specialty stationery. Retro 51, they're in this category, right? So there's a specialty stationery category. And then the third category, I separated out completely fountain pens and inks because I think they deserve their own category. They're also the most complex slash least insignificant, least significant category, despite what we think about fountain pens in the big picture, I think. So we'll explore that a little bit more. So my one caveat in all of this, and well, I say one caveat, I probably have a lot of caveats, right, Myke? Um, I'm super biased towards stationery, right? Like, I love stationery. Like, maybe my glasses are rose colored right now, right? So keep that in mind. Like, we've talked about bias in the past, like review bias way back in the day when that was a thing, when pen blogs started to become popular. And I was like, yes, I'm biased. I'm biased towards good stationery. So you should keep this in mind.

Myke: MKBHD had a really good video about this once talking about bias in tech. And what he said that I liked was everybody is biased. Mm-hmm. Learn what you think they're biased about and then kind of stack it against other people and then your own biases. And then you can kind of like understand you kind of like over time of listening to someone or watching someone or hearing somebody's opinions. You can get an idea for how they match with your opinions.

Brad: That's exactly right. I agree with that. I really liked that idea. Yep. So that's the way we always think about it. It's like, I have opinion about a product. That doesn't mean like the product's good for you. You should take my opinion in the context with, you know, some other things you read and other opinions and other reviews and then build kind of an overall idea and then see how that fits with you, right? You don't take anyone's direct word for it. You just kind of build the story and figure out if it relates to you well. So yes, very well said. All right. Let's start in the order that I listed these categories. The store bought slash standard pens. I love this category. This is my favorite category. I've mentioned this recently when we were talking about the OKB48 vote that was going on for the most popular ballpoint pens in Japan. So I just think it's a great category. There's a ton of just years old, decades old products that live here. The products we know and love, the Pilot G2, the Uniball Signo, the Pentel Energel, all of those pens. Is there a lot of innovation here to kind of tackle the first part of the question that we received?

Brad: I think people will jump to say no, that there's not a lot of innovation here. I can't argue with that because what we see on the shelves are that companies are just quick to slap some new colors and new barrel skins on. Except notably the Pilot G2, which has not changed in what, two decades now? I don't even know how long it's been out, but it's been a while.

Myke: I think that's to its benefit now.

Brad: Yes. It's the most popular gel ink pen in the world.

Brad: Sales wise. And I remember back when Pilot claimed that and I actually got them to send me the details behind that and like the press and the links. And I remember getting that back in the day that it was actually like seemed like a valid test that they did to come up with this marketing line. And it seems to be real. And yeah, like, you know what a Pilot G2 looks like, right? So should they change it? Who am I to say? Like, obviously not, right? They seem to be doing pretty good. But also in these categories, you get some innovation that kind of does change things like ink formulations, right? The Uniball Jetstream kind of came out of the ether when the Uniball Signo was popular and the Uniball Vision was popular. And there was nothing really unique for a ballpoint pen ink. And Uniball spent the time and money and research to put forth the Jetstream. And it's become a core product now, not just a fluke product. You know, I think that's innovation. Same thing goes for the Pilot Friction. You know, some people may hate that pen and, you know, rightfully so. But what it is, is real and it works well. And it changed how some people use pens and they love the Pilot Friction for what it is. So you also have to understand I'm looking at this through the U.S. market, right? I'm looking at this through the market I'm in. And in Japan, there's way more innovation and there's way more positive reception to the innovation. I don't know about in the U.K., but in the U.S., you would never go to a big box retailer like Staples or OfficeMax and find a multi-pin, right? You just wouldn't. Those types of things don't exist. But in Japan, all of the big companies have huge wide varieties of multi-pins and allows the consumer to mix and match and build things. And they have all these more specific products to solve more specific problems. You know, it could be those multi-pins. It could be faster drying gel inks. It could be like the Kukuyo Beetle Tip, like a split tip highlighter, different types of markers. All those things in Japan are highly innovative. And over there, they're practically normal, where over here, people would freak out. It's like, oh, what is this pin? I don't know what to do with this. And, you know, that's not how we stock the office supply cabinet. And it's too expensive, even though, you know, it's $3 instead of $1, right? That's a huge deal for like an office. So, I think the innovation really is there in that level of pin. And we see it time and time again. Like I mentioned before, the OKB48. Like we see things on that list that we've never seen before. Someone like myself, who is really, really into this stuff, you know, last year, one of like the top five pins was a pin from Zebra that I had never seen before. And you could argue is, you know, the Zebra blend innovative. I don't know, but it's at least new and it's different from the Zebra Sarasa that they always have available. So, in that category, I'd say there's a moderate level of innovation. I'd say, based on where you live, regionality plays into how you feel about that market, right? I would argue that in the U.S., most stationary users that aren't listening to this podcast think it's just the same stuff every year on the shelf. And I can't necessarily argue with that, but I could nitpick it and, you know, see some things that we don't normally see. So, the second category, specialty stationary.

Specialty Stationery Growth

Brad: I think this is where, like, the nerdery level and the geek level turn up a little bit and you really get, like, those passionate consumers. Like, the passionate stationary users that are using stationary products all day, every day. Where the previous category, they might just, hey, want a nice, you know, Pilot G2 every now and then because it helps with their notes. Something like that. This is where the people, like, are digging into the tools that will help them do whatever they want to do better. Whether that's note-taking, journaling, work, anything like that. But this is where, again, like I was alluding to earlier, this is where you have the bullet journal that was a really niche product that grew into almost a mainstream stationary product, right? As far as, like, the path from brand new product to mainstream, the bullet journal crossed that threshold. People know it.

Myke: People just know it. Like, you know, so many people in my life are aware of it as a thing, as a concept. Even though, as we spoke about on the show in the past, what most people think of as a quote-unquote bullet journal isn't actually a bullet journal and then it became this whole other thing. Right. But the idea of bullet journaling is a whole thing. Like, coloring, you know? Yeah. All those kinds of things, they come about every now and again. But they're still specialty things. Not everybody does them, but they've hit the mainstream. Yeah.

Brad: And, you know, I threw in things like the Traveler's Notebook, right? It's a real niche product, but it's very popular, especially for those who love it. And that's where you have these customers that, like, spread the word, right? These are, like, the super valuable customers here in this realm that they take these products very personally. I put in Retro 51, you know, Spoke Design, all the Kickstarter pins, Hobonichi. Like, these are the products that make the biggest difference for the people who, like, really, really nerd out about this kind of stuff, right? Like, these are your passionate consumers. And this, I think, out of the three categories I listed is where we see the most innovation in the past decade or two, you know? But, you know, where are we at? Like, Blue Magister's question is, like, are we in the peak of this category? Like, have we really kind of hit, like, the top of the mountain here? And where are we going to go from here? I think there's more to come. I think it's also fair to say there's already a lot that has happened here and a lot currently going on here that makes it look like the top.

Brad: The consumers that shop in this category have a high level of knowledge. They know what they want. In general, they want the same thing over and over again. Once they discover the thing, they like the thing to stay the way it is, you know?

Brad: There is room for growth there. But the customer base is smaller, right, than the store brand pins and the smaller version stationery that I was talking about before, right? It just is. Like, that's just a fact that this customer base is not as wide as your office supply stores. But this customer base is rabid for these products, right? Not only are they going to be great customers, they're going to be, you know, evangelize the brands that they, you know, support. So these new and innovative products are always going to be given a chance, right? Whether they break through like the Bullet Journal did, that's a different story. But you have to start with the original innovation first. And the previous category, if we're going to look at have we peaked? So if I break down the store and standard pins, have we peaked there?

Brad: If we haven't, we're pretty darn close. Specialty stationery, I don't think we've peaked. Even though we have a lot right now. And that may be the rose colored glasses thing. And that may be because, you know, I'm always interested in finding new products and new tools that work. And we've had so many great successes from this category. That maybe we've peaked, but I'd say less so than the previous category. The previous category may have peaked, but there's still innovation. This category I don't think has peaked. And there's a greater realm for innovation. And I hope we continue to see it here.

Myke: Who do you think is going to do the innovation?

Brad: We don't know. That's the point, right? Like in the next five years, who's going to be... Does Retro 51 get a competitor in five years? Who's going to come up with something new on Kickstarter that's not the scribble pen?

Myke: It's probably through the Kickstarter realm, I think. I think more of these companies are going to come up, you know, like small companies that come from an idea and grow into a thing, you know? Right. Because it is, in a way, probably now, both easier and harder to do that than it was before. Yes. Harder in the sense that there are more people that want to do it, but easier in the sense of it is more possible now than it was before. Because to start a company like this doesn't require personal cash injections. The issue is now that there is a flood in the market. This is the same in all of these types of business, you know, all like small business realms like this that can be started by a couple of people.

Myke: But yeah, I would agree with you that there is more of a desire in the specialty world to innovate than there is in the standard pen world. Right.

Brad: Right. Right. Because the consumer has taken a step from the first category if they want to get into the second category. They've made a knowledge step. They've made a purchasing step. They've made these different decisions that put them in a different category. And therefore, they're out searching. But like you were saying, like for the past 10 years, you know, we've been able to have high percentages of innovation, innovative products come out. And now, like back to the original question is like, what are you going to show me that's different? And, you know, the customers are out there for that, but I don't know what that is. Right. Like that's what I'm hoping and waiting and what we're all waiting to see. But I still think when you have an individual behind it instead of like, say, a large corporation that could an individual can move faster and and break things, as they say, to see if something really innovative works. And I think this is where we're going to get it.

Myke: All right. This episode, we're going to come back to this, but let's take a break. This episode is brought to you by Uni Pizza Ovens, the world's number one pizza oven company. They make surprisingly small ovens powered by your choice of either wood, charcoal or gas. So you can make restaurant quality pizza in your own backyard. The temperatures that an Uni Pizza Oven can reach, it's 900 degrees Fahrenheit, 500 degrees Celsius. This is what makes you cook pizza that is restaurant quality in your own backyard in as little as 60 seconds. Their ovens are incredibly easy to use. They're really portable. They'll fit into any outside space. They have a couple of models that people really love. There is the Uni Coda 16. This can cook up to 16-inch pizzas. It has an innovative L-shaped burner at the back. This is a gas-powered oven, and it will give you even heat distribution with its design. There's also the multi-fueled Uni Karu, where you can choose to use wood, charcoal or gas to cook your pizzas. Their ovens start from just $299, and they're free shipping to the US, UK and EU. Brad, tell the PanEgg listeners why you love your Uni.

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Fountain Pens and Inks

Brad: Now comes the hard part, and this is why I put them in their own category, fountain pens and inks. This is the conversation we're about to have. It's full of context and full of nuance, and everything can but this, but that. I get that. This is a really complex category, but I think it's important, at least for us, to put it in context with the rest of everything. So the first question I posed, is this market healthy, the fountain pen ink market? It has to be. Like, I feel like it is. You know, I'm not a retailer. I don't know what their numbers look like, but I see the conversation and the product launches and, you know, kind of the rolling through of products and how things are operating. It seems healthy to me as an outsider, even though, you know, I have inside information and context. I don't have, like, business, like, info. Like, again, this is not an analysis. This is a thought process of what I feel, and it feels like it's healthy. Is this market innovative? I would argue no. And that is challenging to say. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm certainly not certain about it.

Myke: I think it's way harder to innovate in this category, I think, than some of the others.

Brad: Right, right. So the key why I think the market's healthy, and then as it relates to innovation, I do think we have a constant influx of new customers wanting to learn about fountain pens, right? I think I see that, like, when I go out to pen shows, even though it's been a couple years, I see that. I see the conversations that I'm having online or in my email and people trying to figure things out. You know, fountain pens do have a barrier to entry, right? Like, it takes a lot of extra to get into it for the first time, but once they get in, people seem to really be attached and taken by what fountain pens can offer. You know, how they improve your writing, how you can customize the writing experience, and I think that is growing. So, like we were just saying, where is the innovation? And I want to be clear in kind of how I describe this because you can yell at your speakers, you know, well, this is innovative and that's innovative. But for this market and this conversation, mainstream fountain pen innovation, where's the mainstream fountain pen innovation that we're seeing? I'm not talking about Myke Stack nibs, right? That's micro. Like, that is on such a tiny fractional level that doesn't move the market as a whole, right? You know, innovative doesn't mean new or different. Innovative means, you know, it has to, like, move the market or be a sustainable business on its own, right? Standing on its own. Stack nibs, yeah, sure, they're innovative, but that doesn't change the market. Does that make sense? So, I am looking at it from a bigger picture, from the bigger brands. It's really who, out of all the big brands that we can name, and we can name 20 or 30 off the top of our head right here, who was moving the needle, right, from an innovation perspective?

Brad: I came up with the Platinum Curie Dust. I thought that was innovative. Even though retractable fountain pens have been around for, you know, 50 plus years, what they chose to do with that, I thought was innovative. Yeah, I agree. They changed the price point of what that product can be. Now, they may have failed, right? And maybe that goes against some of my sustainable, like, innovation has to be sustainable. It may not be a long-term failure.

Myke: It just had a bit of a stumble at the start.

Brad: Like, I think we're still in wait-and-see mode on that. But I felt like that was good innovation. I don't, like, I would love to hear what other people think are innovative. And, like, again, we're not talking about a nib grind, like, or something like that, or, you know, just, I don't know, some of the really, really small niche things. I'm talking about bigger picture fountain pen markets. Like, who is doing innovative things that are making real change? So, the small makers are, I think. You know, this is a different conversation than the big manufacturers, right? The smaller makers are able to be more nimble and just try different materials and different finishes and different pen shapes. And the new ink makers fall into this category, too, right? There's new inks. There's a new ink every week or every day, it seems like, popping up all over the world from the Asian market to the European market to the U.S. market. There's growth, right? And the market's healthy. And there's opportunity. Is there innovation?

Brad: I don't know. I'm shrugging my shoulders. You can't see me. Maybe. I don't know. Like, who is pushing the boundaries of what we already have? Like, who is on the edge of doing something really unique and different?

Brad: You know, I look at some of the Pinaferina stuff as one that comes to mind. Like, they're pretty innovative. But it's a really, really high-end market, which we're going to talk about that in a minute. But for the most part, your fountain pen brands that are known, it's generally the same stuff, you know, with different colors, you know, a few different finishes, things like that. And I'm not saying that's bad. Like, I don't think that's bad at all. But if I'm being asked, is Pelican innovative? I don't think they are.

Myke: No, I don't think so. I mean, one of the issues I think that can stop this kind of thing for brands, say, like Pelican is part of their charm is that they're old-fashioned.

Brad: Yeah, that's coming up here, Myke. Like, that doesn't mean that they're not the best fountain pen company in the world, right? Those are two different questions. So now we get into, like, the price. And that's where Pelican comes into this conversation and a lot of these other brands. So the cost of raw materials and manufacturing costs are, it's unequivocally rising. Like, it just is. Across the board, no one is immune from this, you know. And how, thinking about what we do and these manufacturers, how does this affect us? What does it mean for the future? I wish I knew. Okay. It's a super interesting question. So here is where I light myself on fire and ruin my inbox, Myke. Because this is the one statement I would like to make, and I'm comfortable making it. I don't know that I have it completely fleshed out. But my gut tells me, Myke, that for the health of the fountain pen industry, nothing over the $200 price point matters.

Brad: And here's where I'm coming from.

Myke: Mm-hmm.

Brad: This is the $0 to $200 price range has been and always will be the driving force in the fountain pen tree of life, if you will. We all go through that range. Which, if someone's starting with a Montblanc 149, they're not necessarily in this market, right? They're not in what is sustaining the fountain pen market. What is sustaining the fountain pen market is the person who buys a Platinum Preppy decides that this is pretty cool. What's next? What can I explore? And then they buy a TWSBI Eco. And then they buy, you know, I don't know, a Pelican M205. And then they buy a Leonardo. And then they're just kind of blown away by, look at all these options now. But that space, I think, is the most important space, right? Because once you get past, like, $200, you're getting into, like, specialty markets and luxury markets. And that's what I was talking about with Pelican before. Right. And I love these markets. I shop in these markets. You shop in these markets. There's nothing wrong with these markets. I want my fancy Nakayas and my fancy Namikis. I want them. But those aren't the things that dictate the health of the market that we're in. Those may dictate the health of the luxury market and the luxury end of these companies. But I think the under $200 price range has to carry the bulk of the weight for these companies, right? From, like, a percentage of sales. Like, that has got to be where the money is made. And I'm willing to be very wrong on this. And I would love to hear any commentary. But this is – that's the way I feel. Maybe it's because it's, you know, just my personal feelings and that's what I believe in. But, you know, for every sailor in Platinum and Pelican that sees their prices increase, you know, these are big companies. Like, take Pelican. If gold goes up in price, do you know how many nibs they have to account for?

Myke: I don't, but I imagine it's a lot.

Brad: Same with Sailor and Platinum and Pilot. Like, that is enormous amounts of money. Like, these are all huge operations. And so, as those prices increase, sometimes out of reach, and let me be fair, to no fault of their own, right? You know, there are different ways to look at it. But, you know, if raw materials go up, consumers are going to get charged more. Is that Pelican's fault? Eh, I mean, again, context, nuance, there's lots of conversation. But as these prices go up, we start seeing a backfilling of the places that they used to hang out, right? You start getting Leonardo's or Mayors or Tibaldi's, like, backfilling these vacated price points that I used to – it used to be Sailor, no-brainer, for, like, you know, $140, $180, Pilot the same way, Platinum the same way. Well, they're gone now, right? They're up and out of there.

Brad: And you get new brands backfilling. Why is that where they're starting, the Leonardo's of the world? Well, that's where I think the most – the biggest impact consumers are in the fountain pen world. So, you know, you have those type of companies. Or you get more established companies like Lamy and Twisby who just double down in that $0 to $200 category all day long, right? Lamy comes out with, you know, 10 different pens that have, you know, one has a different clip from the other one and one has a different section from the other one. It's not innovative, but they are hammering that price range because their competition isn't there anymore, right?

Myke: They're owning it, like it says.

Brad: Like, I want an ultra-premium Lamy pen. Lamy says the market is not there. Our market is here, and we're just going to double down on it constantly. So, in five or ten years, there's going to be another rotation, right? There's going to be a rotation. Maybe Sailor and Platinum come up with a new pen once they realize that they're not getting as much impact. They're not getting as many new customers because there's no path for them to get to $0 to $450 like there is for them to get to $0 to $200, which is more comfortable for a lot of people. So, do we see innovation caused by just like a market reset because of the market factors that they're also having to deal with that are causing their prices to raise and for them to vacate their previously popular price points where they used to be the dominant player? So, it's interesting, right? So, like I think about it, like am I sad that I didn't buy a new Sailor pen this year? I don't know, a little? I love that brand, right? But that ship sailed, right? You like how I did that? That was pretty good. I was going to say it.

Myke: Yep. I didn't explain it.

Brad: It's no longer a good value proposition for me. Once I start considering spending $450 on a pen, well, I'm wanting to answer a different question than what Sailor has always provided me for, oftentimes much, much less than that. So, I've kind of moved on, right? So, you know, if I'm going to take that money, I'm still going to buy my high dollar fountain pens, but I'm going to explore somewhere else that I haven't been before. Like I bought a Visconti Homo Sapiens this year, right? I've never owned one. They're a very expensive pen. It doesn't necessarily have to do anything with the cost, but Sailor is no longer that value to me that it was previously. So, are they going to do something two, three years from now to get me interested in a $140 pen? I would bet on it eventually, right? Because they can't just cycle out of these price points forever. They're going to have to come back. So, it's just like the life cycle, right? These luxury goods makers, they're just subject to these raw material costs, and that cost is not going to come down, right? No one goes, hey, the cost of gold went down, now our pens are cheaper. That'll never happen. But I don't think there's a shortage of companies that are going to step up and fill that void. So, maybe there's innovation there, but we'll see. And it's certainly slower because of these big behemoth companies that play around here. But I just think we're going to continue to see the change in this sub-$200 market, which I think is great. And then everything else is just, you know, luxury market, and that's its own separate market. All right, before we head to an ad, real quick, I want to follow up on the Pinaferina thing that I mentioned a minute ago. I think they do some real innovative stuff, again, at a real high price point. And hopefully, you know, the goal is, like, these are like concept car type pens, right? That's not the thing that's going to move the broader needle of the innovation, of the market. But it could trickle down to, like, get some better innovation in the lower end, which I think is what really is going to move this market in the end. And see some innovation, figure out how to, you know, reduce the impact of the cost of the raw materials. And I certainly have hope for this category. But I think where the innovation is going to happen is in that sub-$200 price range.

Myke: You know, I actually do think we have something pretty innovative to talk about in our next ad break, at least something I haven't seen before. Yeah. And that's, so this episode is brought to you by Camero Industries, who are introducing Estabrook's newest Estes, the Pink Sands, which is limited to just 50 pieces worldwide. This exclusive pen is a nod to the natural beauty of some of the most enigmatic beaches around the world, found in places like Greece, Bermuda, and Indonesia. What's more, a pink nib was created in collaboration with Heinz Pens, as H-I-N-Z-E Pens. That's unlike anything else in the market right now. The Estee Pink Sands will feature all the usual bells and whistles that you'll find in the wonderful Estee line. It is blended and turned with a mix of pink sands colors and a highly polished finish. A sleek clip provides a clean accent for the cap and slides easily to your shirt pocket. The fountain pen is also available in a complete range of points for the way that you write, so you can find all the nibs that you're looking for. To add to their mystique, the Estee Pink Sands will be the very first to introduce the all-new Chroma nibs, this time in a coordinating shade of coral. So you need to go and see this pen. It's really stunning. If you want to get your hands on it, you've got to be quick because it's limited to just 50 pieces worldwide. 49 now, because I bought one. As soon as I saw it, oh man, I fell in love with this. I mean, the thing for me that I really love is the pink nib. I've never seen this before.

Brad: Yeah, so I've gotten to know Jim Hines a little bit over the years. And one of the first, maybe the second time I met him at a pen show, like he didn't have them the first time. And this is like four or five years ago, I'm guessing. Like the second time I met him, he's like, hey, look at all these nibs that I've done. And they were different colors, like red and blue. And over the years, it looks like he's perfected the process of having this type of finish of this coating on the nib. It looks like extremely natural built into this pen. And that's like the highest compliment I could pay. It looks like it belongs there, right? It looks like it belongs on the nib. It looks fantastic. I think it's really, really cool.

Myke: It's a nano ceramic coating. And they say that even with the most corrosive of inks, it will not use the finish, lose the finish, I should say.

Brad: Yeah, so this is a great combination. Like I love the pen, you know, like I love the design, you know, I love the bright colors, the pinks.

Myke: Beautiful pinks and like it's got that crystal-y look. But honestly, what sold me was the nib. I'm like, yeah, I want to see this. Totally. So it's only 49 now. 49 available worldwide.

Myke: So go check it out yourself at Pen Chalet. Go to friends at pennchalet.com and you can see the new SD Pink sounds from Estabrook. Our thanks to Camero Industries for their continued support of this show and RelayFM.

Ask TPA Segment

Brad: Huge, huge follow-up in the Ask TPA. Are we ready to go there? Are we done talking about the state of the industry? I figure like we just scratched the surface and I'll probably have plenty of follow-up once the emails start rolling in.

Myke: I'm looking forward to everyone telling you why you're wrong. Yeah, I'm good with that. Like I'm okay with being wrong. Because that's good because that means we're going to find some stuff. Yeah. So I think it was last week Gil asked, is it Diamine or Diamine? And we have some follow-up via Alan.

Brad: Alan sent an email to the Diamine Corporation to get the correct spelling. And straight from the email, they spell it D-Y-E-Dash-A-M-I-N-E. That's the phonetic spelling. Phonetic spelling. Thank you. The phonetic spelling, Diamine. So there you go. Thanks for that clarification. Thank you, Christine, for responding to Alan's inquiry. And thank you, Alan, for taking up the mantle of figuring it out. Now I'm going to have to break myself. It's like the Sino-Signo thing. I finally say Signo all the time. But you say both of them for a while until you can officially convert over. And I was always a Diamine guy. So I'm going to have to cut over to Diamine and feel free to slap me down when I say it incorrectly.

Myke: I'm happy that I was right.

Brad: You were. Myke was right.

Myke: Skyblue asks, I just got my first pen, a Twisby Go, a first fountain pen, I should say, a Twisby Go, and I've run into a problem. I'm left-handed and I have found that I keep accidentally rubbing off the ink that I just wrote as I write down a line. Any tips for lefties to keep this from happening?

Brad: Well, as the resident lefty, I think you should go first.

Myke: Yeah, so I think one of the things that's the most important is the way that you hold the pen. I developed a kind of like an overhand grip so that the nib is actually more facing towards me when I write. Now this is complicated if you want to try and handle this, right? It's like you might have to change the way you hold a pen. Right. This is a big question. Yeah, that is hard work. And you might not enjoy it, but it might be, Skyblue, just a slight tweak in the way that you hold the pen could be a big help. The other thing you want to do is make sure you have quick-drying inks. So I went through this a long time ago. And I got a bunch of suggestions from other left-handed people on the show and ended up settling on the Pilot Hiroshizuku line of inks when I was really kind of starting out. And also at the same time trying to adjust my kind of writing style and grip. They dry very quickly. So that would be my recommendation. Try getting some Hiroshizuku. They have great colors and they have really good ink. But it dry really fast. And that really helped as I then also kind of changed my grip up a little bit. And that kind of helped me take it to the next part. So that's what I would recommend. Start with some Hiroshizuku. And then see if you can see how things go from there. But it is tricky. I'm pleased that you bought a Twisby Go as your first fountain pen. And you didn't like buy something mega expensive. And then realize it's not for you. This is a difficulty especially for left-handed people.

Brad: Yep. You definitely want to think about the ink. And paper is also a consideration. You know if you're using a coated paper like a Rhodia. It's going to no matter if you have a quick-drying ink. It's still going to dry longer than it would to a non-coated paper. So, you know, we can feel free to email me. Hello at penannic.com if you want some paper recommendations. But, you know, things like Midori and Life and a few of those other brands. They're going to be a little bit quicker drying than something like a coated paper like a Rhodia. Or even like a Lloyd Charmer would be a good choice. And while still remaining fountain pen friendly and handling your fountain pens well. So, yeah. It's complicated. Yeah.

Myke: All right. And the next question comes from Chucklestuff who asks, How do you temper the desire to buy everything? I've been into fountain pens for about two years and have steadily built my collection. My problem is that I ordered six pens last week and I have my sights set on more.

Brad: I mean, I'm there, right? It's a time thing for me. A time and discovery thing. You know, I'm lucky enough to be able to try and test out a lot of things before I buy them. So, I know what I like in a pen and what I dislike. So, I'm able to chop down the list for my personal collection of pens better. Sure.

Brad: Just understand that when we talk about FOMO, there's always going to be something else down the line. That you don't have to get things today. Like, Myke could not wait for that pink pen. Because it's kind of perfect for him. Like, I see why Myke wanted to jump on that Estabrook. But, like, if you're hedging, you're like, oh, well, if you're buying it because it's limited and it's not going to be there, you know, that's how you kind of, like, temper your expectations. Knowing that, hey, there's probably going to be something cool down the line, you know, a month or two down the line that might fit me better. Whereas, this is a perfect fit for Myke. Maybe it's not a perfect fit for me or for you. So, you think about these things. At least, that's how I think about these things. In that, there's always going to be something else down the line. If, you know, I can wait today, I'll hopefully be rewarded tomorrow. Whenever that is. So, you know, don't overextend yourself. Be very careful about that. Figure out, out of all these pens that you've decided to buy, figure out why you like certain pens and why you dislike certain pens. And don't hesitate to rehome, resell anything, the pens that you don't like, to keep your collection manageable. And then narrow your focus when you go shopping later. Just don't get caught up in the hype or the FOMO because you're always going to have an opportunity later. And it took me a long time to realize. It took me a long time to get there, to be perfectly honest. Years and years and years of just buying everything that flew across my screen or I saw in person at a pen show. So, and now I think, like, for my own usage, my tastes have become more refined and I'm more locked down on this is exactly what is going to be good for me. That way I don't have to question it later after I've bought it, right? That's the worst thing to do is to buy something because of the hype and then question yourself later on why did I do that? And it turns out it was just because of the hype, not because the pen was a perfect fit for you. So, it's a lot to think about. It's not easy. I'll admit I'm being caught up in this stuff for sure.

Myke: If you'd like to send in a question for us to answer on the show, you can send an email to hello at penaddict.com or you can send a tweet with the hashtag AskTPA or use question mark AskTPA in the RelayFM members Discord. I would like to thank Kenro, Uni, and Harry's for their support of the show. If you want to find Brad online, you can go to penaddict.com, spokedesign.com, and twitch.tv slash penaddict. Brad is penaddict on Instagram. Dowdyism on Twitter. Brad is a penaddict.com. I'm Michael. I'm Michael. I'm Michael. I am iMike. I-M-Y-K-E. And we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.