The Pen Addict 475/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	475
Title:	Butter-Softly
Release Date:	August 18th, 2021
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 475
Audio File:	Audio Episode 475
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 475
Length:	5757 min <br />0.95 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 475. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace and Uni Pizza Ovens. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi, Brad.

Brad: Hey, Myke Hurley, how are you?

Myke: I'm good, my friend. I said to you today before we started, I was a little bit sleepy today, but I've got a coffee here. I'm drinking actually today, Brad, what is called a dirty chai. Do you know what that is? I feel like you've explained this to me before. I think we may have had this conversation, maybe dirty chai is my Wednesday drink. Maybe. It is like a latte with chai tea in it.

Brad: Okay, gotcha, gotcha. So yeah, it's not just like the straight up chai.

Myke: It's not a chai latte, right? Because a chai latte is just chai tea with foamed milk kind of thing. This is like a full on, like it's already a latte and you've just added another caffeine concoction to it, which might be why I'm in a better mood now than I was 20 minutes ago. No, no, it's because me. It's because me and The Pen Addict podcast. I was talking to you because I was talking to you because I was talking to you.

Brad: That wasn't the part you were supposed to say out loud, Myke. Sorry, I got to mix up. Just keep that in your head.

Myke: Hey, Brad. Yes. What's going on with you?

Brad: That's a great question, Myke. And I wish I knew, but it's time to talk about this on the podcast because I've gotten a lot of questions over the past couple of weeks. That the cracked collar issue from Yovo, which I think we spoke about it maybe like in the spring time, several months ago, people were finding their Yovo nib units having, when they would go to ink their pen, they would leak. So they would unscrew the nib unit from the housing, from the grip section. And kind of the black outer piece that goes around the nib in the feed, it's called the collar, would have a crack in it and not like a small crack, like a very easily noticeable with the eye crack.

Nibs Discussion

Myke: Something I noticed of Yovo nibs, which I've actually never spoken about on the show, I don't know why. I've had two Yovo nib sections, the feeds where it connects to the, like, you know, like the part on the back, I can't think of the words now, of the back of the nib, right? What is that called? Like, is that, that's not the feed, is it? So the feed is, is like the fan type of thing. Yeah. But the part that's attached to the back of the nib just snapped clean off. I've had that happen twice. Yeah.

Brad: So I don't know. Just could be like a setting issue. It could just be a thing.

Myke: Like, you know, it's bad luck, but I've never had it happen with other pens. Yeah.

Brad: It depends on how much those get manipulated. You can kind of loosen the feed around the collar and, you know, if you manipulate them a lot, they can wear out and things like that. But this was happening. These were like visible cracks and it was happening a lot. And to the point where Yovo actually made, it became enough of a stink that back in April, Yovo apparently created an Instagram account. It has one post saying, this is April 9th, saying that they have re-received information about defective housing. So I call it the collar, but it's really the housing, the circular part that goes around the feed. Kind of like what you're talking about. The solid, solid piece.

Myke: Was the only place they could have given this on an Instagram account? Why did they do that?

Brad: I think we're going to explore this a little bit more as we go. So just in general, not that I have an answer for you, but I think you're on to something there. It sounds to me that they're like a very old stuck in their ways type of situation, right? That now we have this new type of customer for their nibs that has a more direct and more public-facing feedback loop for products. Like this is the internet world that you and I live in, but maybe Yovo wasn't exactly ready for that.

Myke: I mean, I think you could take a lot of opinions as to whether this is right or wrong or the right way to be or the wrong way to be. But customers now are much more demanding for information from companies than they have been previously. And part of that is because it is so easy to get the information out there. You know, like I see this a lot in the keyboard hobby more than the pen hobby where like in the keyboard hobby, there seems to be this like intrinsic demand that like a demand that you have to know where something's made, like who makes it. Mm-hmm. It's being shady. And it's really strange. I mean, because this is the kind of thing that gets born out of a community. Like the community was small and now it started to grow and it had like just these ways because, you know, and I understand it because for this type of product, who makes it does actually have an impact on the quality. But people are untrusting. They will not trust a new company. And that's the thing that I find strange of like if you don't want to trust it, just don't buy it. Wait for somebody to buy it and see what they say about it. But, you know, it's just like these are the things that are – it's like a strange way that some of these communities are. But my point is that like customers now are much more demanding of information.

Brad: Yeah. And so that's come out to bear here in the last few weeks, probably the last month or so, that nothing has really seemed to change since that April post from Yovo. Yovo and, you know, we have more people like speaking up and putting pressure on the brand. Although through like some of the – customers don't deal directly with Yovo, right? So Yovo has – based in Germany, they have a U.S. distributorship and then that distributor sends out the products to the makers. And then the makers sell the nibs to the customers, including us at Spoke. We are a Yovo distributor, U.S. distributor customer. And so it works backwards that way too. So the customer comes to, let's just say us, even though we haven't seen like a rash of problems, but just for, you know, consistency's sake. So the customer will come back to us saying, hey, we got this feed problem or this, you know, housing problem and it's cracked. It's like, okay, we'll send the nib back to me and then I'll replace it. Well, then now the customer's got five and then five other customers have five and then all of a sudden I can't replace all those. So I'm going to my distributor and my distributor is going, well, I'm talking with Yovo and they can't figure out the problem and that's the information I'm getting. And so we're just stuck in this loop of nothing progressing. And it finally came to a head here in like in the last couple of weeks. There's a great account on Instagram that you should follow, PermisWorld. We'll put a link in the chat. And they've been communicating recently with Yovo because they were one of the ones that sent like a video. Like they opened up all their pens and they had like double digit housing failures. Like just crack after crack after crack after crack. And, you know, trying to figure out what's going on to the point of like wanting to not, I'm not saying Permis, but I'm just saying like the groundswell was like, let's, you know, let's all switch to Bach and have all these other issues with Bach. There's a reason that everybody switched to Jowo and it's because Bach nibs were bad. Yeah. Yeah. But PermisWorld's done actually a good job of sharing their communication with Yovo. Yovo says theoretically they're going to have a message out on their wonderful one post Instagram. Their Instagram is just going to be a quarterly apology saying we haven't done anything yet. So sorry. Waiting with bated breath.

Myke: So sorry. So that's just kind of, that's all it is.

Brad: So back to your point. Back to your point is we, and I say we as consumers, that the we, we need more information, especially when we have provable consistent failures like this and we need confirmation and conversation with the manufacturer, not the makers, say me, not the distributors, but with the actual manufacturer of the product. Why does this keep happening? And the previous statements and subsequent fixes have not happened. So why are we in this situation? And we, I think, need that level of communication. We almost expect that level of communication in this modern consumer world that we live in. And I think it's fair. Like I absolutely think it's fair. But what I don't want to see is like, I know we can't all have like a direct line to Yovo. Like my customers can have a direct line to me. Right. And then my conversation is not with Yovo either. It's with my distributor. So like as bad as it sounds, like these things take time and we can't just, you know, expect a large manufacturer to jump through hoops. And I'm not excusing anything that they've done in this. But they need to do a better job, Yovo that is, of communicating with their customer base. Because this is not going away despite assurances that we're past this issue. It doesn't. The thing is about this product is you don't know when the nib that, let's just take me for example at SpokePen. I don't know when the nib that I currently have is going to make it into the hands of the customer. Like I could have a nib sitting here that might not be in someone's hands for a year and then they find out there's a problem even if I've inspected it the first. So these things, there's like a long tail failure that can happen, which keeps this in, you know, keeps it being a topic in the community. Right. So that's the challenge that Yovo has to come out and say, we can't, it's not as easy as saying it's fixed this time because of the long tail of the problem. So fortunately us in the U.S., we're lucky to have a great distributor, Meister Nibs, who has, is dealing with directly with Yovo. So I'll have some links in the show notes to Jonathan Brooks's Instagram account where he's posted Meister Nibs communication with the community. So Meister Nibs is taking it upon themselves to replace everyone's housings at no charge. You just have to get in touch with Meister Nibs. You know, that doesn't solve the failures, right? But it hopefully repairs the issues that you currently have. And the next step is to, okay, Yovo needs to step up and come clean on what has happened, why they're experiencing this level of failure, and what's going to be done to prevent it in the future. So we have some great support in this community from Jonathan Brooks and all of the makers who really rely on Yovo Nibs because they do provide the best nib platform. And they are affected negatively by this, you know, this failure of communication, not just of a structural failure of the product. You know, they're affected by customers not wanting to buy these nibs because of the stories they're hearing about them and the pictures they're seeing of all of these failures making customers go, Hey, maybe I shouldn't buy this pen or maybe I should go find someone who uses a Bach fitting. And, you know, it's a little bit scary, I think, for some of the makers out there to have this kind of groundswell of problems with something that's really out of their hands. And no one's blaming makers for this. You know, the blame lies solely on Yovo, but we as a community are not getting enough from Yovo. And that's what we all need to see. So I'm thankful for Jonathan and for Meister Nibs for kind of taking the lead and fixing the end result. But we have to fix the source. And that's what Yovo needs to step up to the plate and do.

Myke: This is one of those things that's always interesting and kind of weird to me where it's like, oh, we're having this problem. And we're not necessarily saying what it is, which honestly suggests that they may be not 100% sure how to maintain the quality because that can be difficult to do sometimes. But we'll replace them. What with? Right. Right. What are you going to replace them with? Like, we're just going to keep replacing it with the same product and hoping that you're not one of the one in X that break. Right. Yeah, like a numbers game. Yeah. I mean, I know that's kind of all you can do, but it's pretty awkward, right?

Brad: Right. And that's where the difference is, the difference in the customer dealing with the maker versus the customer dealing with the manufacturer. And, you know, so the manufacturers don't, I'm not going to say this right, but they don't have as much incentive to fix it, as bad as that sounds. Right. I mean, they do in the end, but they don't have the immediacy, the immediate incentive that, say, a maker like myself has to hopefully allow my customer.

Myke: You don't have the customer email sitting in your inbox.

Brad: Like, my customer's, yeah, my customer's going to yell at me, and I'm like, yeah, I'm with you. And Yovo's just going to go, eh, there's probably a problem. We'll look into it.

Myke: But that thing of, like, yeah, I'm with you doesn't really matter to the customer either, right? Like, I know what you're saying. I feel it. Right. Exactly. But it's, they don't, kind of don't care. Like, it is your job for them, you know, for the customer. It's your job, Brad, to fix this for them, you know?

Brad: Right. However, that gets done. I agree. Yes. So, it's now, we're beyond this point, and it's time for Yovo to do something publicly about this.

Myke: So, as far as you're aware, has the issue, have they fixed it?

Yovo Issues

Brad: It's an unanswerable question, because I can sit here today as a Yovo customer through the U.S. distributor who has sold and stocks hundreds of nibs. I cannot show you one single nib with this problem.

Brad: But then I go to someone like Permis World who, on their counter right now, has 10 cracked housings. Right? It's, there's, I don't know what to say about that, right? There's a definite problem. I do not have a bad batch of those nibs today. I mean, a lot of these nibs, you know, look fine also when they leave, you know? And they're, it's happening later when, you know, maybe they're getting screwed in and out for cleaning, and then you put it back in, and like, oh, like the first time I've actually unscrewed this nib, it actually caused an additional pressure that caused this crack. And it's like, I literally have zero nibs on hand with this problem. I also haven't gone through and inspected, like, all of my personal pens that I own. Say, like, you know, a bunch of Franklin Kristoff's, or Edison's, or Brooks pens, whatever uses Yovo, which is a crap ton of pens that I own. I haven't gone through and visually inspected them. So, and I certainly wouldn't be able to track, like, a time frame. Like, you know, it's like an impossible tracking situation, but it's a definitive issue, right?

Myke: How fun.

Brad: Yeah, good times, good times. So, it's, we're at the point, like I said, I said this already, and just to put a bow on it, it's, Yovo has to step up now. So, we haven't, I don't want to say we've done everything we can do, because there's always more, but everything that needs to be done from the consumer side, the maker side, and the distributor side is happening. Now it's in the manufacturer's lap to fix this permanently.

Myke: Oh, boy.

Brad: Hey, don't worry, Myke. We got more, we got more pen failures to talk about in this episode.

Myke: My favorite. Let's talk about something a little bit better before that, then. Which is our friends over at Uni Pizza Ovens. They are the world's number one pizza oven company. They make surprisingly small ovens that are powered by your choice of either wood, charcoal, or gas, letting you make restaurant-quality pizza in your very own backyard. Uni Pizza Ovens are incredibly easy to use and really portable. They're going to fit into any outside space, and they're good to move. It's like you could take it over to a friend's house if you wanted to sit outside and make pizza, that kind of thing. Uni Pizza Ovens can reach temperatures of up to 900 degrees Fahrenheit or 500 degrees Celsius. This is what enables you to cook restaurant-quality pizza in a little 60 seconds. This is so much hotter than your home oven can produce, and that's what separates them, and that's what makes these pizzas truly special. One of Uni's most popular models is the Koda 16. This is a gas-powered oven that can cook up to 16-inch pieces and has an innovative L-shaped burner at the back, giving you even heat distribution. Uni Pizza Ovens start from just $299 of free shipping to the US, UK, and EU, with two of their fantastic models, the most popular ones, being the multi-fueled Uni Karu, which can use wood, charcoal, or gas, or the Koda 16. They also have a great app as well that you can use to help perfect your dough recipe and give you loads of pizza-making tips. Brad, can you tell our listeners about your experiences of Uni?

Brad: It is. It makes cooking fun. It's almost like the party pizza oven, even though we use it just for our family and just say, we want pizza night, we'll cook it. But if we're going to have people over, we will make it an event where everyone can make their own pizzas, top them how they wish, and then I can have 10 pizzas cooked in the span of about 15 minutes if I'm efficient at moving them in and out, which is, it just blows people's minds at how cool and efficient this thing is and how good of a job it does. So yeah, huge Uni fan here at the Pen Addict household. Can't speak highly of it enough.

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Brad: All right, so I heard about this next issue on Tokyo Inklings. When I was talking about them last week, I should have brought it up, but it kind of just went over my head a little bit. I kind of didn't think too much of it. And it was an issue with the Pilot Capless LS. And if you don't recall this pen, this is the Vanishing Point model with that twist mechanism on the top.

Myke: What was that thing? Like, there was like a whole thing about it, right? It was hilarious to us.

Brad: I don't remember what it was now, though. It was like the twist, twist, knock thing. Knock twist. Yeah, knock twist. Yeah, so it's the knock twist. You would knock it, then it would twist, and then you would untwist, and it would re-knock the thing. So it's that pen. And it never really gained a ton of traction, despite being really cool and very quality-made. It was two to three times the price of a traditional Vanishing Point. Right, so where the Vanishing Point, you can get for under $200. These were more like mid-$400. I don't have the prices in front of me. But it was like the only new feature was that mechanism. And it's like, you know, you have to really be like a super fan. And so when they talked about it...

Myke: The whole idea was like people want to be on the move and fast, and it's just you just instead of clicking it down, you push it around.

Brad: It was dumb. It was dumb. So that's not why I'm bringing it up. I'm bringing it up because Pilot, I'm bringing this up because I don't recall ever seeing this before. And I want listeners to remind me, if I have, or you to remind me, Myke. I don't ever remember seeing a corporation issue a recall for a pen. Like, this is like a literal recall. Like, from Pilot Corporation.

Myke: This was funny to me when I saw it, because recalls are usually like, this is going to harm you, you know? Yes. Which I doubt, well, I mean, you can tell me, but I doubt that's what's happening here.

Brad: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so like, I'm going to read, this is a really short, short little document. It says, Thank you very much for your patronage of our Pilot products. Regarding our fountain pen, Capless LS, we regret to inform you that there is a possibility to cause a malfunction in the retractable function by rusting on the internal surface of the upper barrel. Therefore, we would like to replace the concern part with a new one. If you have any questions, contact us. In addition, we regret to inform you that the timing or the replacement could be started on or around November due to the unique clicking system specifically for the Capless LS. We shall inform you again as soon as the replacement part is ready. Please accept our sincere apology for any inconveniences. So there is the new twist-twist knock mechanism that is actually failing. It's rusting, and it's causing failures. Yeah, on the internals.

Myke: That's super weird, right?

Pilot Recall

Brad: Yeah. Rust? It is super weird. So, like, I was trying to rack my brain. Like, I remember the Platinum Curie-Dos, right, had a feed-cracking issue. Like, it was a clear issue. But Platinum never, like, issued an official recall. Like, it was basically said, hey, if you have this issue, we'll fix it. Just get in touch. Manage it with your retailer. And, you know...

Myke: It feels to be much more like an ad hoc thing usually, right? Like, hey, we think there might be this problem. If you have it, contact these people or contact us. But this is different to be like, hey, everyone that bought one, we want them back. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah. That's how I read it. I mean, obviously, you don't have to send it back or do whatever. But it's like an auto recall. Like, hey, the airbag in the passenger seat could be a failure. You should take this in. We'll repair it for free. But, like, there's a problem you need to go fix. By the way, we're not going to be ready for you until January 2022. Yeah. Is that what they're saying? It's November. November. Right.

Myke: But here's what I will say, Brad, about what I think the difference is of why you would maybe do a recall as opposed to dealing with it the other way. If you're confident that this is going to happen to a large percentage of the customer base.

Brad: Oh, yeah. This is like... This is basically... We're pretty sure this is 100%. They're all going to do this. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. And that is rough. Yeah. So, that's what the point I wanted to bring up is, like, I don't recall this level of recall. It's pretty aggressive. Like, it's wild. And, you know, I don't know how many of these they sold. Or, you know, it's obviously, like, in Japan, you know, the customers will have an easier time replacing this. They can probably go through a lot of stores with Pilot Relationships and have this done. But it sounds like you got to send off your pen and get it fixed. So, interesting. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. So, I thought that was worth discussing a little bit further, even though I kind of glossed over it at first.

Myke: Rust in a fountain pen. That's a new one for me. Rust. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think so. Also, like, it shows it must be real bad because these pens aren't even a year old yet. If they're rusting already, that doesn't seem like it was going very well, right?

Brad: Yeah. Yeah. So, it's a little interesting because, like, you know, people, like, this was an ultra premium pen. Mm-hmm. So, it was interesting. But that's why I wanted to bring it up.

Myke: Tony is saying in the Discord, all two people who actually bought one will be very disappointed.

Brad: I mean, unlike a lot of times, he's not wrong in this case. I don't know how well they sold. Like, it's a cool idea, but it's really expensive. It's like, just go over here. All right. I want to talk about some new products. We brought up Kaweco last week for not some great things, and we might actually revisit that later in the show if we have time. But Kaweco, to assuage the flood of bad PR, they've released their upcoming summertime releases, and they have a very interesting product, Myke. And they're calling this the Kaweco Premium Nib.

Brad: And my eyes and ears perked up the moment I saw this email come in from Kaweco. I'm going to read this a little bit. The shiny premium nib for a delicate writing feeling. Those who focus on writing comfort and not on the material gold can now enjoy the unique writing pleasure of a gold nib with the Kaweco Premium Steel Nib. Apart from its beautiful sun-shaped engraving, the larger iridium grain offers you perfect writing behavior. Due to the hand-finished inner edge rounding, the nib glides smoothly and butter softly over the paper.

Myke: Butter softly?

Brad: Butter softly.

Myke: That's what we're saying now? Butter softly.

Brad: Butter. Butter softly. Butter softly. Okay. So, I have all kinds of questions here, as you can imagine. So, this is a steel Kaweco Nib, which we're all very familiar with, that has new engraving. This is me.

Myke: It's much of smooth. Okay. All right? Not softly.

Brad: It has new engravings on the top of the nib.

Brad: It has more tipping to allow for butter softness. And they will charge you accordingly, which is 35 euros for a nib unit. What does that translate into? America dollars. $40. So, for the privilege of new nib stamping and a larger iridium blob on the end of it, it's $40, where their replacement nibs were probably like around 20. Mm-hmm. And, or 25, I don't even know. Not that expensive for a nib. Oh, excuse me, Myke. $11.50. $11.00. So, for the privilege of a new stamping and a new tipping, $40 versus $12, let's call it. And I don't know what is why. Why? Why? I don't know what is why. I don't know what's happening here. What are they trying to tell me here? Is that their regular steel nibs aren't good enough and you need a premium nib? Or are they saying our gold nibs are too expensive? So, we're going to give you this faux writing experience with the tipping to make it act like a gold nib pen because you can't afford our $150 gold nib pens. I am super confused at why someone would purchase this nib over their standard replacement nibs. That's all I have to say. I don't, I don't, I, it really caught me off guard. I'm like, you're trying to sell me a premium steel nib for almost four times what you sell your current replacement steel nib for. And what I get for it is a new stamping design and larger and buttery softness because you're telling me the other nibs aren't buttery soft enough. So, anyway, that was, look for, look for very expensive Kaweco premium nibs soon. I will say they do have black ones. So, they're going to have like the steel rhodium plated, the gold plated, and then they're going to have the black plated ones. So, it's fine. But, anyway, moving on. The new Kaweco collection color mic. Let's hope they get the stamping right on these. You remember the original, the lavender one that they put the wrong stamping on. So, the new Kaweco collection. It's dark olive. It's a very pretty dark olive with the gold trim. I'm assuming this does not come with a premium nib on it. This is going to be a whole problem for me is do the new collections come with the standard nibs? Of course, of course, they're going to come with the standard nibs because then they cannot upgrade you 40 more dollars for a nib that they can sell for you separately. But, I digress. So, that one's coming soon. What I thought was interesting, and I might have missed this earlier, or maybe I mentioned it and I forgot that I mentioned it because I am old. But, I think it's really smart. For that pen barrel, you know, in that $15 to $20 range, maybe even less than $15, I don't have them pulled up. To have a rollerball in that same vein, like the Lamy Safari makes the entry-level pen have the fountain pen, the rollerball, the ballpoint, and the pencil. Is the Perkyo going to be that platform for Kaweco? I would be all for it. The new Perkyos look great. You know, they have like teal and green, and they're going to be nice. So, I will be very anxious to get one of the new rollerballs in hand. So, that's pretty much it. I just wanted to mention they have a bunch of new things coming up. They have one more random thing. This isn't, I don't think it's as egregious as the nib itself, and I didn't link this in the show notes, so you're not going to look at it. So, Kaweco does a product called the SketchUp, which is their like 5.6 millimeter clutch pencil, right? It's the short stubby with the wide graphite cords. It's their kind of drawing sketch pencil. They're now selling that setup, but with an eraser instead of the lead. So, you can get actually like a brass barrel Kaweco SketchUp with an eraser in it, which is pretty well. It looks really cool. But it's actually, that whole piece is only 30 euros, so less than the new premium nib, a brass barrel eraser. So, that's a whole thing. And they're coming out with a new student in jazz. You know, that popular full-sized, I think you liked the shape of them. Yeah, I like the colors. The red and the colors. Yeah, they're doing a red and a brown edition of that. So, anyway, that was Kaweco's new PR push in the email, but it was really about these nibs.

Myke: I'm intrigued to see what people say about the nibs. I mean, I've never had a problem with Kaweco nibs. I've always liked them. Yeah. But, like, I don't really know what makes these premium, especially at $35.

Brad: Yeah, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I'm missing something.

Kaweco Steel Pen

Myke: Because it's buttery softly.

Brad: We'll see. They have all new packaging. Like, I didn't send you the full link to the Dropbox, because I didn't want, I probably shouldn't share that. But, like, I'm in, you know, like, the PR Dropbox has, like, all, everything has, like, new packaging designs. They're super clean, super nice. Like, Kaweco's always done a great job visually and graphically, and the products have always been great. I'm just wondering, as I'm fond to say, what story are they trying to tell me with these nibs? And I don't know.

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Brad: I've gotten a lot of email this week about a particular product that is not for your fountain pen usage, Myke. And I want to be very clear. So good friend of the show, Stuart Simple. Just kidding. I have followed the Stuart Simple lifestyle for a while. Long story short, just Google Vantablack and you will find everything you need about why I enjoy Stuart Simple's work.

Brad: And without getting into the entire Vantablack story, he has built a brand going on the anti-Vantablack bandwagon. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, just seriously Google it. It's worth your time. It's a great read. So Stuart's always coming up with new colors, new inks, new properties, new paint.

Brad: He's really leaned into this part of his life as an artist. He's now more of a color maker. So the latest is an item called Blink, the blackest black ink. He puts it in a very fountain pen ink style bottle or nail polish style bottle, which they're practically one in the same. And under no circumstances ever should you put this in your fountain pens. So hopefully that wards off some of the emails saying, hey, I saw this. Can we use it in fountain pens? The answer is no. This is like an India ink, right? This is an artist ink. This is for dip nibs. This is for brushes. This is for any type of external application. You do not want this ink anywhere on any internals that it could ruin or destroy. He does not come out and clearly say this, which I wish he would. But this is what this is. The chat is making me laugh. Pixel is saying, well, not with that attitude, Brad. You're not going to be able to use it in a fountain pen. I had to see that and stop. That was very funny. Feel free. I would probably choose the Visionaire if you ever did decide to use this ink in a fountain pen. Because this is the same idea, right? This is an artist ink. It's basically a very aggressively black dark ink like an India ink. And it should only be used with external writing implements like dip nibs and brushes. And anything else besides a fountain pen. So there you go. I do wish there would be a caveat on the page. Because by no way is it marketing like that. But it's not not marketing like that either, right? So I would like a few words saying, hey, don't stick this inside of a fountain pen.

Brad: Don't do it, Myke. I know you have a Visionaire. You should use it for your Visionaire.

Myke: So Brad has told you what he has told you. Don't listen to anything I'm going to say. Has anyone? Has anyone?

Myke: Not that I know of. I'm sure someone will. Someone should. Yeah. Just to know.

Brad: Well, yeah. You can do it. And it will be like a quick failure. And then you'll clean it out. It's not going to flow through there. Right. And if you leave it more than like the hour you have that you're messing around with it, it's going to start eating the parts.

Myke: It's going to be bad news. I mean, this is a dip nib product, right? Yes. Hey, you know what? We can all buy it for our drillugs.

Brad: Yeah. That's exactly right. So we'll have to look at it for that.

Review Challenges

Myke: That's actually a pretty fun thought because it's like, oh, what would I use the drill log for? Well, I could use it for this.

Brad: Like I have some of his inks just sitting here, the paints like that I'm never going to use, but I've always supported him because I think it's really, really smart what he's doing. And I'm really anti-Vantablack like he is or the concept of what they did with Vantablack. And I like to support him for that. I just don't want people putting Blink in their fountain pens.

Brad: So we'll drill log it and then we'll go from there.

Myke: You posted a review of the Narwhal original. This is something that came up on an RSTPA recently. If somebody had asked you if you ever tried out Narwhal pens, because they seem to be pretty good prices for pretty good quality products. And you said you hadn't and you wanted to rectify it, even though other people in the kind of the pen act temp I had tried them before. And I think I could probably sum up this entire review for you, which is does a good job. Yeah, it's good.

Brad: Like the end. That's what I wrote about. I wrote about the challenge of reviewing a good pen, not a bad pen or not a pen with a flaw or not a great pen that is changing the way I think about pens or think about using pens or would make a difference in someone starting with pens. It's just all around good. It's completely fine. It's really fairly priced. It has a piston filling mechanism, which is honestly, if it didn't have that, it wouldn't be that special. It's got a good nib made in-house. It's like there wasn't a lot to say about it because there was nothing bad to say and there was nothing outstanding to say. It's just good. It's well priced. It's solidly built. It feels good. I think if you bought it, you would like it. It's not transcendent. And is it fair for me to want every product I have to be game-changing or game-destroying if it's terrible? And of course not. Like sometimes products are just good. And that's where this one lands. Now, the question you asked me in the document is, could this pen be good enough to make it into the top five under $50?

Myke: Yep.

Brad: Right now, no. Why? Because I think it's not as... Trying to answer the question of what people are looking for in a fountain pen under $50 leads me towards this is going to be their first dalliance with a fountain pen. And therefore, I'm a little more risk-averse in the recommendations. A lot of cartridge fillers or a lot of more rock-solid piston fillers for much less money to get into. Because you've got TWSBI Eco on there. Right. So I have the TWSBI Eco on there, but it's less than $30. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So you made my point. I would put this on the one-to-watch list, right, if I had such a list. Like, it could be, eventually. I think it's going to price itself out of the... Like, this one is exactly $50. They have other models that are like $60. So I think $50 is going to be the base for them. I actually think they're going to be in the next tier, which is a weird tier, which actually they have a better chance of, like, meeting those expectations in that $50 to $100 tier. And they're definitely in the one-to-watch phase because I think they're going to be working with some other people. And, like, we've started to see them do, like, some diamond cast material and doing some different materials for their pens instead of the base acrylics. And then still having the piston filling mechanisms. They don't have a lot of nib options right now. So I think that holds them back. You can get finer, medium. That's it. So if you're good with those, you know, great. Knock yourself out. But I would like to see the full range of what a stock, you know, nib setup would be from extra fine to broad. And even maybe a stub. But I wouldn't even count that at first. That's always, like, a second or third tier thing. So Narwhal is good. I don't know if they'll cross that great threshold. And they don't have to, right? I don't know that I'd say Twisby is great. I think they're better. If you're asking me personally one-to-one, I'm going to take the Twisby 580 over the Narwhal every time. But I've also had how many years of experience with the Twisby, right? So Narwhal is on the one-to-watch list. I will continue to watch what they do. I will continue to try out new models as they come out and see if they broaden their horizons on their nibs. They make their own nibs. So I'd be interested to see are there going to be other options for that in the future. And then we'll go from there. Like, it's still a pretty new brand, right? They've only been around for, what, a year or two? So people who use them like them. And, like, that's the best praise you can give, I think, right? People who have tried them out and tested them say, oh, yeah, it's good. I like it. So that's good enough for me right now. And it's not more than that.

Myke: Fair enough. All right. We have a couple of RSTPAs we want to do. One is like a follow-up, and there's two that are connected, and they're time-sensitive. So we're going to knock those out today before we finish.

Brad: Mm-hmm.

Myke: First comes from Ed. So this is a bit of text here, so I'll get through it. So I just listened to the latest episode and was happy to hear a couple of intellectual property issues come up.

Brad: Yeah, boy.

Stipulonetto Ink Patent

Myke: The first had to do with the mysterious Stipulonetto ink wall. Since they claim it is patented, I went and found the patent. It's in Italian, but Google Translate seems to do the trick. I'll put a link in the show notes in case, I don't know, you want to find the patent for yourself.

Brad: But right away, we know we're not dealing with a normal human being right here.

Myke: Yeah, yeah.

Brad: We're in it now. Ed's like a real hero right here.

Myke: Uh-huh. Here's how it works. We've referenced one of the patent figures. There is an internal tube, and the bottom of the tube is immersed in ink. The tube has grooves inside the tube wall, which draws the ink up from the bottom to the top, where the nib is then inserted. The pen's section contacts a rubber ring around the mouth of the ink wall, which is labeled 7 in the figure. So when you then draw back the plunger of the pen's filling mechanism, there is a seal at the top, and it draws ink up from the bottom of the ink wall. The ink passes the grooves inside the wall of the tube and comes out of the tube to fill the nib's reservoir. Basically, rather than having an ink miser arrangement where you have to turn the ink bottle upside down, this will let you draw ink into the special nib reservoir using just the suction from the pen's own filling mechanism. Then the bottle's cap seals the nib reservoir so you only ever have that small amount of ink exposed. The big advantage over the ink miser setup seems to be that the pen's section wouldn't touch ink, so it won't get messy. I hope that was clear. That was clear, and I actually think this is a pretty clever product. Is it $250 clever, Myke? No, because it's not that much of a problem for me, but I do think it's smart.

Brad: Yeah, I get it. I didn't know that this was a thing. I didn't know this was a thing that we needed. Apparently, we don't. But this is basically allowing you to fill your pen and keep the section above the ink is the short version of the way I read this. And it's really wild that someone designed this, and it's kind of cool. Like, I have no intention of getting one, even at 50% off, but I wouldn't be opposed to someone else doing it. Let me know how it goes for you, just because I'm not going to keep, like, a bottle specifically for that. But I'm kind of intrigued with the explanation that Ed gave. I still don't technically know how it works, but I get that there's, like, some sealing off. And it's basically drawing the ink up through the nib and feed without sealing off the section completely or dipping the section, like, below oxygen level to really seal that off. So, yeah, cool. I think it's cool. When I saw this email, like, the image popped up in there. I'm like, oh, my gosh. What is happening here? Then I read it, and I was like, Ed, you are my hero. So, it was really, really good. So, thank you for doing this, Ed. I'm fascinated. I'm going to look at this picture a little bit more. But I had to read the description a couple of times to get it, but I think I've got it. And, yeah, it's wild. So, I'm glad we have these type of listeners that go, oh, yeah, I know how to go get the patent for the thing in Italy. Yeah, I'm in.

Myke: Love it. All right, but there's more, though. There's more. We're not done. The other thing that was discussed was the Kaweco whole situation, that IP thing. I was the IP lawyer whose Reddit comment Tokyo Inklings read out in their podcast. There you go. It is a ridiculous mess, and I think the only thing keeping Kaweco from serious legal trouble is the fact that the Chinese companies don't care enough to fight them on it.

Brad: Yeah, obviously, I don't know enough about this in relation to Ed, but after listening to the Tokyo Inklings and thinking about it and discussing it here, there's – I'm failing to see any benefit to Kaweco from, at minimum, a public perception perspective, right? They're obviously looking at it differently because they're looking at a business slash bottom line perspective. And that's maybe not wrong of them to look at, but it also puts a certain PR stamp on it publicly. Hopefully, that may end in a different result than they think it might, and is it worth it to continue?

Myke: Yeah, and I think if I'm reading it right, it's like they're trying to say that they have an intellectual property claim that they probably don't, and if somebody fights them on it, they could end up losing big time.

Brad: Yeah, yeah. So, anyway, I thought it was interesting, and Ed is now our go-to IP lawyer for the Pen Addict. Official IP lawyer of the Pen Addict. Welcome, Ed.

Myke: We now have an IP person.

Brad: He's on the pretend payroll that we also have.

Myke: All right, two last questions. Kyle says, as a new Pen Addict who has only used a couple of pens and never been to a pen show, what should I expect, and how should I prepare for the 2021 San Francisco Pen Show?

Brad: Love it. Love this question. There's always some great content around the Internet. We'll put a couple of links into the show notes. One recently by our friend Myke at Ink Dependence did a video called How to Pen Show, and it's really great, and it's really current, especially in the new COVID times. Like, I know San Francisco is under some different restrictions, and their masks are going to be mandatory. I don't know what else is going to be mandatory for the show.

Myke: Yeah, we actually, like, preparing for a pen show right now is not what it was like to prepare for a pen show before, and honestly, we both are a little bit lost, because neither of us have been to one or are going to one. So it's slightly different at the moment than it has been in the past.

Brad: Right. So you should also read the recaps from the DC Pen Show from the Gentleman Stationer from Kimberly at the Pen Addict, and then Myke also did a, Ink Dependence Myke also did a walkthrough, live walkthrough, and there's a couple other things. So we'll put, I'll get those links for the show notes, but in short, in short, Kyle, you should go with the expectation to browse. Right? You know, have a list of things you want to check out, not necessarily purchase, but, you know, I haven't seen a vanishing point. Let me see how that feels in my hand and how the knock clicks, and would I enjoy the clip being in that particular spot. You know, how does a Leonardo grip section feel in my hand? You know, these are the type of things you should be thinking about, you know, what you personally are trying to accomplish with, like, your own writing or your own fountain pens. You know, how does this paper handle pens? Like, you'll see some people selling paper, they'll have a sample book out, and you can see, like, oh, does this handle these inks well? So, what I really implore you to do is browse a lot. Don't go in there, like, have to buy all the things. Don't go in there seeing, oh, my gosh, this is overwhelming. Go slow. Look. Ask questions. Touch things that you can. I know we're in a little bit different COVID times. There might be some different rules there. But go in with more of a list of questions that you want to try to answer for yourself as opposed to a shopping list, if that makes sense. And that's kind of how I would approach it being new. Really, really, I implore you to just take it slow because it can be overwhelming.

Myke: And as my wife, Adina, is pointing out in the Discord, quite rightly so, we did do an episode about going to your first pen show, which I'll also put a link to in the show notes. But again, just bear in mind, as Brad said, there are different things. So, like, maybe, like, we have our basics and then add in some of the other stuff now.

Brad: Yeah, and Adina's was the San Francisco show, right? Yeah. Like, that was the show we referred to in the podcast. So, even though, yes, it will be very different setup-wise, the ideas will be great. It's great perspective from Adina not having experienced that before and then coming and talking about it.

Myke: Mm-hmm. And the last question that we have today comes from Judica, who asks, do you have a way to calculate how much ink you'll need on a trip based on the amount of writing that you expect? I'm hoping to not bring quite so many pens on my trip this time.

Brad: So, I kind of have an answer for this, and it's probably not going to be the answer you're looking for. I will at least bring one pen that takes cartridges and bring extra cartridges.

Brad: So, if I'm going to go on a trip and I have my awesome piston fillers or my converters filled with ink in bottles that I don't want to carry around, I'll make sure they're full. And then I will have one pen that I only use cartridges with, and therefore, I can pack extra cartridges for that particular pen. So, I end up taking less pens that way. I try to take less pens in general because I always end up writing less than I need, unless I know I'm doing something specific that's going to take a lot of writing. So, take your favorites, ink them up completely, then make sure you have a really enjoyable pen that takes a cartridge and pack extra cartridges for that. That's my tip.

Myke: That's a very good tip.

Myke: Do you do this?

Brad: Yeah. I always take, like, the Pilot Vanishing Point would always be that pen for me. Right. So, I would bring, like, three or four pens, and they're all inked and ready to go with my green ink or my orange ink or my purple ink. And then I'll have a Vanishing Point with a Pilot Blue-Black cartridge and then take, like, two extra Pilot Blue-Black cartridges. And that's it. Like, I would never worry. And, of course, I would never, never once have I popped in one of those cartridges because I've written so much. But that covered me. That kept me from worrying about having, oh, do I need to bring this ink because I'm going to run out? I just wouldn't worry about it. I would use what I had, and then if it got extreme enough, I would pop in a new cartridge in a pen that I enjoyed with an ink cartridge that I enjoyed.

Myke: Nice. Mm-hmm. Very nice. All right. If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on the show, you can send out a tweet with the hashtag RSTPA. You can use question mark RSTPA in the RelayFM members' Discord or email them to hello at penaddict.com. At penaddict.com, the website is where you can find Brad's work along with many other talented pen aficionados and writers. You can go to knock.co and spokedesign.com for Brad's products. And you can also catch Brad on Twitch. It's twitch.tv slash penaddict. Brad streams multiple times a week. Do you have a schedule right now, Brad, or are you like?

Brad: I do. I do. Tuesday and Thursday, 10 a.m. Eastern, usually until about noon, so about two hours each stream. And then Wednesday after we record the podcast, as long as the podcast is on a normal schedule, I will go around between 11.30 and noon Eastern time on Wednesday. So it's Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

Myke: Nice. Very nice. You can find Brad on Twitter. He is at dowdyism. He's penaddict on Instagram. And Brad on micro.blog. I am iMike. I-M-Y-K-E. Thank you so much to Squarespace and Ooni Pizza Ovens for their support of this week's episode. And of course, to you for listening. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.