The Pen Addict 411/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	411
Title:	Curious Case of the Curidas Cracking
Release Date:	May 20th, 2020
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 411
Audio File:	Audio Episode 411
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 411
Length:	5252 min <br />0.867 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 411. Today's show is brought to you by our friends at Pen Chalet. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad. Hello Myke Hurley. Thank you for that introduction because you threw me off last week. I know. I see what you did there. I've got to make sure that you feel comfortable, you know, like you're the talent here. I'm your handler and I've got to just make sure that you're all settled in because looking at our show document today, you've got some stuff that you want to talk about, which is like very Brad in its execution, I believe. So, I'm excited for, in the best possible way, kind of a train wreck episode. Maybe like a car crash episode and like, there's some stuff that Brad's going to get fired up about and you're not going to be able to look away.

Brad Dowdy: There's going to be some handling that you will need to do today. That's for sure.

Myke Hurley: Alright, so what we got?

Brad Dowdy: So, we have the Platinum 3776 Shiyun mic, which we mentioned last week because, hey, look at this cool new purple pin from Platinum. Beautiful. Yep, we spoke about that at length.

Platinum Shiyun Mic Announcement

Myke Hurley: Because we had that like really low res marketing page.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, terrible, like, like, GeoCities image level quality picture. But still, we're like, hey, pretty cool, right? Purple, rhodium trim, faceted, however Platinum does all that. And hey, cool. So, what happened right after the show last week? All of the official marketing came out. All the marketing came out, which included the price of the pin. And we would have had a lot to say last week, but I'm actually glad we had a week to wait. So, I could stew over this for a week and settle down a little bit and decide what I wanted to talk about. But as most of our listeners know who follow the pin market as much as we do, the price is $470. Now, the conversation we're going to have around this today is going to be long. It's going to be very Brad-esque. And there is so much context and nuance in this conversation. Just please try to listen to what I say. And if I make a mistake, let me know. But I'm not expecting an inbox full of comments because there is nuance around this. And I'm going to discuss, you know, some things that I want to say about the pricing. Holy shiun, Myke, is where we start.

Brad Dowdy: Holy shiun. So, this caught everyone by surprise because the previous pins in this series, so this is the Mount Fuji series from Platinum, range from like $260 up to $325 for the Raka. Right? So, the Raka was last year's. It was in the fall. It was kind of the snowflake-y one, the clear, faceted one. The first one where they really did all this faceting work.

Myke Hurley: That was what we spoke about, right? Because that was the one that I got confused thinking that it actually had holes in it. But yes, that was the pin that I remember, but I was misremembering a detail about it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And then the Kumpu before that was $260. So, there was a price increase. You know, maybe it was the detailing of the pin. You know, maybe that extra faceting work cost.

Myke Hurley: Well, I mean, let's be honest as well. The 3776 Special Editions were also very popular. So, you know, like the Lelass, the Lavand. Like, they proved, I think, to be quite popular. Yes. So, I expect that they were increased. You know, the price increases started to go along with that.

Brad Dowdy: So, let's make something very clear right out the gate. Platinum is allowed to charge whatever they want for a pin. They are free to charge whatever they want for a pin. Yeah. And Platinum's customers, you know, such as you and I, if they like the pin and can afford the pin, they should pay the price for the pin. Like, I don't think, like, these are the things that are not arguable to me. Like, I'm not saying that Platinum shouldn't charge this price. And I'm not saying you shouldn't buy the pin. I'm saying Platinum can charge the price and you should buy the pin if you like it and you want to pay for it. What I am saying is it's fair to ask Platinum why there's such a large price increase. And then that's what I got into.

Myke Hurley: So, what is the price increase? Like, what is the, like, from the last pin like this? How many dollars?

Brad Dowdy: So, $325 to $470. So, what is that? $145? Sure. Did I do that right off the top of my head? Yeah. $145, I don't know what percentage it is. Pretty high percentage. So, yeah, that's a big increase in, like, nine months, right? So, that wasn't a simple, you know, hey, you know, it's been a few years since we've raised the price. Now's the time to raise the price. So, Platinum's not said anything of why the price is. And the theory out there, and I just want to be clear, this is a theory. Platinum has not said that, hey, there was this big spike in the rhodium, you know, materials market in February, or earlier this year, March, late winter, early spring, that drove up the price. You know, that's the working theory, but there's no Platinum statement behind that, right? Can I ask a question about that? Mm-hmm.

Myke Hurley: Why? So, like, if that was the case, could they not just use a different material?

Brad Dowdy: They might have already been committed to the way they've designed this series. Yes, they could change it. They could have just made it gold, right? They could have just gold-plated it with purple. Would it look great, right?

Myke Hurley: Right, but then it would be the idea of, like, well, now this doesn't look like what we were planning, right? Because we already have, like, a purple and gold pen. Okay, cool. I just wanted to double-check, like, what the feasibility of that is. Like, if they could have just been, like, well, if this is increasing in February and we have a pen coming out in May, can we swap it out? Because you would assume that they probably weren't in production at that point, I would assume. I don't know.

Brad Dowdy: And companies that deal in precious metals usually, usually plan ahead, right? Yeah. These materials, you have a whole department probably watching the precious metals market when you're using this much gold, this much platinum, this much red. Cerodium, things like that.

Myke Hurley: Because they wouldn't not have any, you would assume. You would naturally assume that they probably buy in bulk when the prices are good. Right. Right, okay. So, would a... This could have been it. It's a potential thing, but there are many arguments to say it might not be, especially when platinum aren't saying that's what it was. Right. Okay.

Brad Dowdy: Yet. So, we're waiting to see if platinum will say anything. I've asked. We're trying to find out.

Myke Hurley: They're busy with some other stuff right now, which we'll get to in a little bit, right?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Like, that's cool. If it's the rhodium, you know, if the rhodium increased the pin that much, cool. Just tell us. Like, I get it. Like, you know, precious metals are expensive and volatile. Like, the entire world market of everything is volatile right now. Right? So, if this caught you, you know, with your pants down, then you have to charge this much for a pin. Sure, go for it. But you have other rhodium pins in your lineup today that didn't see a price increase. And we'll see if they increase in the future. And that's the reason why. But, yeah, I'm just asking. So, how much would a rhodium price increase affect the retail price of the pin, Myke? Like, how much rhodium, how much dollars of rhodium is going into the manufacturing of a pin? So, I want to play a game. You ready? You ready for me? Okay. This is what you're going to do for me today. We're going to play a game.

Transition to Pricing Discussion

Myke Hurley: All right.

Brad Dowdy: Because we don't want to single any pin company out. So, we're going to play. We're going to make a new pin company today, Myke. What is the name of our pin company going to be?

Myke Hurley: Notium.

Brad Dowdy: Notium. Okay. Yeah. Our pin company is named Notium. And we're going to make a pin. What is that pin going to be called?

Myke Hurley: I don't know, man. This is very difficult. I've run out of the one joke I had.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. The Notium Rhodium. Okay. Okay. Cool. We're going to call it actually the Notium Rhodium Zero. And that's for the sea level at the ocean nearby where I live. So, it's the Notium Rhodium Zero.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Introducing Notium Company Scenario

Brad Dowdy: All right. So, we're going to sell. We already... So, as our manufacturer, we're the manufacturer, right? We're Notium. Yeah. And we have already priced this pin. And our retail price to the customer... Like, our retailers are going to sell the Notium Rhodium Zero for $400. Okay? Okay. So, that's the retail price. So, in retail markets... And this is business 101. People know this. But you don't think about it all the time when you're thinking about how much things cost and how much a small change will affect the price. And this is not how... Necessarily how items in the manufacturing of the fountain pen industry work. They can have different margins. They can have whatever. This is not... You know, I'm saying... I'm not saying something as completely factual. But this is a general ballpark of how retail manufacturing works. This comes from, you know, clothing and, you know, other, like, mass market retail. So, if we're selling the pen at retail for $400, our retailers generally pay $200 for that, right? They get to apply 100% markup to that pen from what they paid for it, right? And we'll get into all why.

Myke Hurley: So, they doubled the price, basically. It's just typical.

Brad Dowdy: So, every step of the way doubles the price. So, they bought that pen from a distributor. Okay? So, they paid $200 from the distributor. The distributor buys the pen from Notium for how much?

Myke Hurley: $100. Oh, $100. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, it's doubling the whole way.

Brad Dowdy: It goes all the way down the line. Right. So, how much did it cost Notium to manufacture the pen?

Myke Hurley: $50?

Brad Dowdy: $50, right? Okay.

Myke Hurley: So, everyone's doubling.

Brad Dowdy: Everyone's doubling. So, this is called Keystone Retail, right? For example, when we were selling NOC at retail, our retailer customers would decide that their margins had to be 100% or they couldn't carry our products. So, we had retailers say, if our case sells for $40, they had to buy it for $20. Well, we're charging $26 and they would choose not to buy it. Right? Fair. Right? Everyone needs that margin. And we'll go into this more. So, if you think about it, a $400 pen might only cost $50 to make. Like, you don't want to think about that too hard, right? Because then you're going, oh my God, what am I doing with my life? But that's just how consumerism and manufacturing works in retail.

Myke Hurley: Right. So, yeah. So, like, a pen that sells for $400 to customers potentially is made at a manufacturing price of $50. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Brad Dowdy: So, let's be clear. Maybe someone's margin is 50% along the way, right? It could be different. But this is your basic math.

Myke Hurley: That is not going to be a set thing for everybody, right? Yes. Because different people will do different margins to try and make sure that their product can be featured somewhere. Some people will be able to command, hire, you know, like all that stuff.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. But the reason that's done is because then now you can manipulate the price downwards when you're not moving a product, right? It still gives you room to sell it at 50% off and not lose money. So, that's the end game, right? So, all right. So, now, Notium, it costs us $50 to make the Rhodium Zero. Mm-hmm. All right. Uh-oh. Rhodium price spiked. We didn't buy enough Rhodium. And we have the Rhodium Zero 2.0 coming out. And now Rhodium doubled in price. And that raised the cost of our pin to $60, okay? So, we went from 50, it cost us $50. We had a 20% increase in manufacturing. It now costs us $60, right? That seems like in the grand scheme, that $10 increase is pretty small. But a 20% increase just for a raw material is enormous, right? I would think that's enormous. But let's just say that's what it is. So, now that pin costs us $60 to make. So, we're selling it to our distributor for $120 because we make double. Our distributor is selling it to the retailer for $240 because the distributor makes double. And the retailer buys it for $240 and now sells it for $480. So, you can see it's the same 20% increase, but that dollar gap is now being paid for by the consumer.

Myke Hurley: So, it exponentially can get large quite fast.

Brad Dowdy: The dollar amount, not the percentage amount.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, but like, I mean, like, you know, a $10 manufacturing cost ends up being like $40 to the...

Brad Dowdy: And $80 to the retail. Oh, yes, $80 to the customer.

Myke Hurley: This is like that, you know, that thing of like, if you take a grain of rice and you put it on a chessboard and then double it every time you move to a different square on the chessboard, you will, by the end of the board, have more rice than there is on the planet. Yeah. Right? That's like a thing. Yeah. But yes, okay. I get that.

Brad Dowdy: So, that's how general retail, those are general, that's business 101 manufacturing, distributor retail. That's with all those steps in there. Right? So, that little movement, even though it's pretty large, like a 20% increase on a cost of manufacturing is a big increase. Like, you'd expect like 3%, right? So, anyway, all that's to say is, hey, a little movement in cost of raw materials can affect what consumers pay by a pretty large margin.

Myke Hurley: Yep.

Brad Dowdy: So, the problem, now, we're done with nodium, rhodium, zero. We sold it pretty well. It was pretty good. Limited edition. We're going to come out of that 2.0, even at our price increase. I think people are still going to buy it.

Myke Hurley: So, nodium, rhodium, 0.5. Okay. That's the name of the second pen. Okay.

Business Model Discussion

Brad Dowdy: I like it. I like it. So, yeah. Thank you. We're done there. So, now, we're back to platinum. With our manufacturing test, our little Business 101 we had there, there was a distributor in the middle. And I believe in distributors. I am pro-distributor because of a lot of things in our market in the U.S. They put in the work to give us access to products. They also put in the work to support products, which we're going to talk about very much here in our next topic. Right.

Myke Hurley: So, they're like the distributor, again, just we're going one-on-one here, is effectively like the middle person who has the ability to take in lots of products from many manufacturers and through existing relationships sell them through to large retailers.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Right. And they're okay. So, just back to our little example before. If they're buying the pen for $200 and selling it for, excuse me, they're buying the pen for $100 and selling it to the retailer for $200, they're making $100 while they're allowing the retailer to make $200. They're okay with that because they have 1,000 of the pens to sell to make $100 off of and the retailer has 20 to sell to make $200 off of. Right. So, it's okay. Right. That's why that math works. All right. So, the problem is, Myke, when you get, you have regional pricing issues. Because now, I have to tell all of our listeners that you can buy this off the shelf in Japan, the Platinum 3776 Shiyun for $325.

Myke Hurley: Right.

Brad Dowdy: This is why Platinum has to say, this is why we increase the price. Because now, everyone goes, why is that? Is it because there's no distributor in Japan? Is it because the margins are much lower? You know, I don't know.

Myke Hurley: Economic headwinds? Currency exchange fluctuations? Like, these are all the things that happen with big tech companies and stuff.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, exactly. The willingness of the American market to pay a premium for a limited edition. Right? Yeah. Let's not discount that. I think that's fair. You know, well, if they're going to pay for it, let's charge them for it. But it's a weird look. Right? And I think it's fair to ask Platinum, why is there such a big price increase? Especially when the Japanese shelf price is so much lower. Even if it was the same. Like, even if in Japan it was $470, the currency, you know, rate made it $470. I would still ask the same question. Why is it so much than the last one? But then to have a discrepancy between the two markets, that's when it gets weird. Like, this is... Like, when Pelican did this in the past, and they're very guilty of doing this, having all these regional prices, they laid it out. Like, you know, our gold costs went up this much. And, you know, this is why we're selling it for this year. And this, that there. Yeah. They told everyone kind of how it worked. Platinum. I guess, I don't know if they're not interested, or they don't think it's a big deal. And I'm going to be clear. Again, they're going to sell every one of these pens. There's 376, 3776 units. It will sell out. I would bet that it would sell out. Because if for some reason, the U.S. market balks, which I don't think they will because they get a small percentage of these pens anyway, they'll just go back to Japan and sell them. This will, this pen will sell out because the price at $325 is now back to reasonable. That's where the Raka was sold, the last pen. So, that's what I've been thinking about on this pen, is we don't know why the price has increased. If you think it's because rhodium spiked, that's a fair theory, but it's not based in anything that Platinum has said, right? It's just the story we're telling because it's convenient. And maybe it is the case that rhodium spiked and they got caught not having enough and they had to pay a premium and that gets translated to the customer. But then when you're saying that and then pricing the pen that drastic of a difference between two markets, I don't know if that holds up as well, that statement. So, interesting pen, interesting price. I know a lot of people are upset at the price and rightfully so. Other people will be jumping all over it because it's a pretty cool pen and if you have the money to pay for it, you should.

Myke Hurley: And also, I guess, really, you know, there is the thing that used to be said is they can do whatever they want and they don't have to want to see you or anyone.

Brad Dowdy: 100%. That's the very first thing I said is Platinum can do, they can charge whatever they want and they do not owe me an answer. I'm also allowed to ask the question, right? So, that's where we're at. And like, we may never know. Like, it may just be what it is and we all pretend that it was the rhodium spike that drove the price through the roof. Okay. It is what it is. We may never know. And they don't owe us an answer. Completely fair. No one owes us an answer to the pricing. Yeah. But that doesn't prevent us from asking the question and say, hey, this looks a little weird. Why is that? And that, you know, that's how you build relationships between companies and customers is that openness. So, we'll see. All right, Myke. We're not done with Platinum yet. Oh, boy, are we not done with Platinum yet. This is a... This one's a little bit harder to talk about because it's so strange. I've never seen anything like this. And this is the case. The curious case of the Curie Doss cracking, Myke.

Myke Hurley: Oh, so good.

Brad Dowdy: I just... I didn't even write that down. This has been like...

Curie Doss Infamy

Myke Hurley: I think the Curie Doss is just going to be another one of those pens that goes down into Pen Addict Infamy. Not... But not in the way that pens usually do. You know, like... Mm-hmm. Pens that are infamous in this show's history tend to be because they were bad, scammy, weird, fake. Yeah. You know, like that kind of thing. But this pen is just... It was introduced peculiarly. We didn't really understand it. Then it came out and we kind of like both flip-flop on it. Like some days we like it, some days we don't like it. Then there was...

Brad Dowdy: Before that, they had the pricing issue.

Myke Hurley: They had the pricing. Then it was hugely delayed, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And now there is a fatal flaw in the pen.

Brad Dowdy: It looks like it. Yeah. Like this is not, oh, Bob's pen broke. They're all bad. This is very high percentage confirmed by retailers worldwide that there is a cracking problem in the feed. And our friend John at Lemur Inc., he put a mention or he put a statement out and he was just talking to his customers. He's saying it appears to be an issue globally. And Platinum is putting a hold on shipping more Curidas out until they figure it out. And I know that Platinum's distributor here and Platinum themselves and all the other distributors are working with Platinum to figure out how they're going to handle this because it's very prevalent. I don't know what the percentage is, you know, because we see an outlier percentage, right? We will see far more just because of the world that we live in. Like to me, sitting here, it looks like, oh my God, half the pens have this problem, right? Just because, you know, of the biased nature of the people that I follow and, you know, who I'm talking to. It could be a much smaller percentage than that. But still, any percentage over like a couple of percentages is going to be a problem, right? So mine has it. So I didn't think that mine was cracked. And I was writing the show notes yesterday and I was like, I got my loop right here. Let me double check. Because I kind of remember I only looked at one side because the picture, first picture I saw was kind of just on one side. And I was like, well, maybe it's just on that side. And I was like, did I check the other side? So I got the loop out, looked on the other side. You don't even need a loop to see it. There's a huge gigantic crack on the feed. Right now, it does not affect my writing performance. Other people's, it is greatly affecting their writing performance. Like there's pens that are not writing right now.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine that. Or like there may be ink is flowing weirdly through them or something.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It's very inconsistent.

Myke Hurley: Just to say like for the feed, in case you're not aware, in case you can't work out where it is. So if you like, I'll put a link in the show notes of Brad's crack. But basically, you know, the nib attaches to a piece of plastic, which goes in and out of the pen. It seems to be a lot of cracks are occurring where the nib and the plastic feed. Is it plastic? I guess it's plastic, right?

Brad Dowdy: It is plastic. It is plastic. And there's a, yeah, it's almost like a clamp mechanism right there. It's like a wrap over of the steel onto the plastic. And I think it's just causing pressure somehow, somewhere that's causing it to crack, right? It's a design issue. I have a much less problem with this, surprisingly, than the pricing issue. And I don't have a huge problem with the pricing issue. I just, I think we customers deserve to know, hey, you know, we're charging this much more because why? This pen is so complicated. And I'm almost not surprised that this happened, right? This is a extremely complex pen to manufacture. And that does, I'm not giving them a pass, right? They've had to have been working on this for years and years and years. They don't get a pass for this. But I just hope that there is a solution to this because there will be, they put a lot into this as a company and as a brand to make something really unique, which we all applauded them for, right? We were like cheering them on. It's like, yes, this is what I want to see in the market, you know, experimentation and trying new things. And with that comes a bigger risk than raising the price of your flagship pen, right? This is, this is a big risk to take and a big experiment. And the cost, the price that they charge for this still compared to like the 3776, the $80 Curitas seems underpriced, right? Just for what went into it. And now they're probably about to find out how underpriced it is because there's going to be, I don't know. I don't know. Have we ever seen like a recall in pens? I can't imagine a recall, right? But like, this is damaging, you know, to, to the Curitas for sure. I don't know if it's damaging.

Myke Hurley: Could they offer, no, I guess they couldn't really offer parts, right? Because it's intense, because of the way this pen is built, that's essentially the entire

Brad Dowdy: central mechanism. I don't know how, I haven't taken it apart to see if the feed is easily replaceable.

Myke Hurley: I mean, I'm taking mine apart right now and it doesn't look like it. Because the feed looks like it feeds into that plastic shroud. I don't know how well you could, you could take that thing apart. And I don't expect it was built to be taken apart either. Just for the record, we have two Curitas in this house and neither of them have any cracking on them.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. And to, to add on to that a little bit, you got those in February. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: So I'm what I was wondering and I was thinking if there, these may have been early, like early production samples, like brought directly from Platinum to London because Choosing Keeping was the only place you could get them from, right? And Platinum came to London. So I don't know what the deal there was, but maybe these were not like production samples, but maybe some of the first made that were shipped outside of Japan. And I don't know if there was like, then there was a larger scale run for the US market and there was a problem in that batch or something. Right. Or it's just pure randomness. But Adina, like she uses hers every single day. So it's not like, you know, it's not like my, you know, like maybe I'll only crack some usage and Myke doesn't use his very much, which is true. So, but Adina uses hers all the time. And I, you know, pulled out my 2X camera on my iPhone and went to town today and could not find it, like could not find anything on it. So.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. And mine was shipped in April. So mine was after the delay batch as retailers started to get them in the US and then sent out to me. So mine was in whatever that timeframe is, which is the majority of the timeframe, right? Because there was no inventory before. Right. So that's kind of when everyone was getting them. So I hope platinum has a good answer for this because I want the Curios to continue. I want it to succeed. I want to see Curios version two and version five and the metal version and the cool, cool color version. Like I want this pen to succeed. So I'm hoping it's something that they can get passed in a, in a reasonable manner. But it sucks. Like it legit stinks that this happened for this pen. And it's so widespread. Like it's a pretty, pretty large issue that it appears to be having. So we'll see. We'll have more on this later. Just, you know, once we find out what to do, because I think this platinum is going to have to answer for this, right? They can never, they don't have to tell us why the price went up on the Shiyun. But I do feel that they're going to have to say something, at least through the distributor say, Hey, this is the word we got from platinum. Yeah. And we're going to do X, Y, and Z. Yeah. Right. This is a bigger issue than us, than consumers questioning the price of a pen.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I think you're right. So.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Good stuff, Myke. We got more good stuff to get to. There's, there's a topic in here, Myke, that you have no idea what it is. And I can't wait to get to it.

Myke Hurley: Hmm. Okay. This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Penn Chalet, the company that sell amazing, authentic, rollerballs, fountain pens, ballpoints, mechanical pencils, and so much more from all of your favorite brands. Monteverde, Leonardo, Lamy, Pilot, Namiki, Sailor, Kaweco, many, many, many, many, many, many, many more than an authorized dealer of all of them. I say that because there are, Penn Chalet are adding new products every single month. There's always new stuff going up on there. And this isn't just pens. It's also everything you need surrounding the pen, you know, inks or refills, paper, maybe you need a carrying case, converters, you know, so you can get the products that you want. You could also get them shipped to you quickly and cheaply. They do free shipping on orders of $50 in the United States. And they sell internationally with really great shipping rates too. And Penn Chalet, not only do they have great shipping, not only do they have everything that you're looking for, they do it all at low price. They do the best prices they possibly can on their high quality products. They offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee. And for listeners of this show, you can save 10% on anything at any time by going to PennChalet.com and clicking the podcast link at the top of the website. You enter the password PennAddict and you get a code. This code can be used of any purchase to save yourself 10% off at any time. But we also have, as we always do, some special offers for PennAddict listeners from Penn Chalet this week. Brad, is anything perking your interest?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I've never jumped on the PennIDR train. Like, we've had some to review and I've always felt that they've been pretty nice. And I've usually sent them off. Like, I know Susan's reviewed at least one. I'm not sure if Jeff's reviewed one on the Penn Addict. But the Avatar Demonstrator is, like, way under the price point where you think that, like, that's a good deal. Like, it's just, it's, like, way under that price point. That's wild.

Myke Hurley: That's a wild price.

Brad Dowdy: So, I also want to point out, Ron does have some, if you scroll, like, it's infinite scroll pretty much on this page. So, you got to go down a little bit. He's got some of the last Platinum 3776, the Nisleilas and the Carnelian at very good prices right now, especially in relation to the products that are coming out now. Like, this is going to be the perpetual conversation, right? Like, look how good this price is because now it's X. These are really good. Like, these should not be here for that. It's pretty fantastic. Ron always does a great job with all of his inventory.

Myke Hurley: Yep. And you can get great deals right now by going to penchalet.com, penshalet.com. Click the podcast link at the top of the website and enter the password Penn Addict. Our thanks to Penshalet for the continued support of this show and RelayFM. Quick follow-up. Okay.

Bung Box Fujiyama Blue Mic

Brad Dowdy: I ordered the Bung Box Fujiyama Blue mic. Ah. I pulled the trigger. Mm-hmm. Pulled the trigger. I did need...

Myke Hurley: Talk about a $400 pen, am I right?

Brad Dowdy: So, this is another conversation. It's like, well, is this worth it when I can get this, right? Like, I paid less than this pen than the Shiyun is, including shipping from Japan.

Myke Hurley: True.

Brad Dowdy: True. True. What is that conversation like?

Myke Hurley: Well, it depends what you're interested in. I know me and you both prefer this pen. Yeah. So, yeah, it's up to you at that point, isn't it, I suppose? Right.

Brad Dowdy: Right. And this goes into, like, one of the other points in that Shiyun conversation that I wanted to make is, like, there's all kinds of outrageously priced pens that I own that I think are overpriced. Like, I rail on the Sailor King of pen all the time as one of the most overpriced pens on the market, and I own three of them, right? Mm-hmm. So, it just depends on what you want for your style. You know, it's very personal, right? Pens are like music, right? We can all like music, but we don't have to like the same bands. Damn. So, you know, we can all like, like, I'm not knocking, you know, if you pay $470 for the Shiyun, you should because you like it. Like, it's cool. Yeah. So, I put my funds towards the Fujiyama Blue instead. We did get the finial picture. It's Mount Fuji, which is very similar to the original. Almost exact, maybe.

Myke Hurley: I think it's pretty much the same, but there's, did you catch, there's like a detail in it? Oh, man, I need to find this. In the where? Where? Uh, they, because Bonebox put up- In the finial or somewhere else? Yeah, in the finial. All right, so here's this. In the 2020 renewal, the Radan Makai on the crown shows a Z-shaped cloud at the base of Mount Fuji. What is Z? The final letter of the alphabet, of course, symbolizing the end of finality. The Z on this crown is our wish for the global pandemic to come to an end as soon as possible. Let us hope that the power of the sacred mountain, Mount Fuji, will protect us through these challenging times.

Brad Dowdy: Dude.

Myke Hurley: What about that, huh? Yeah. That's a detail for you.

Brad Dowdy: That is cool. I missed that. Yeah. And now I see the Z, and now I know that's the end. Like, we want it. Oh, man. That's cool. Yeah. I'm very happy about that. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Yeah. Um, the kicker with the Fujiyama Blue is I don't know when I'm going to get it, right? And Bung Box is pretty clear when you order. They're like, hey, you can order this. We have the pin. We don't know when we're going to be able to ship it and when you will receive it. So, a friend of the show, Tessa, ordered the pink love from Japan to California and it took five weeks, right? So, I'm expecting one to two months for this to show up. Anything before one month, I think, would be a huge win. So, I basically, you know, just bought this pin with the expectation that it's going to show up sometime later. And, you know, I'm not in a hurry for it and I'm not going to get in a hurry for it. So, I'm just glad. This is one. This is why I don't buy them all because I'll wait for this one and I jumped on it when I could and then, you know, maybe there'll be another one later. So, who knows? But I'm pretty happy with this one. Can't wait to get it in.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Next up, Myke, I wanted to mention this. The ProGear Slim Minis are back. Do you know about this pin, Myke? Are you familiar with the ProGear Slim Mini?

Sapporo Mini Pens

Myke Hurley: This isn't the Sapporo.

Brad Dowdy: It is the Sapporo Mini. It is exactly what I refer to as the Sapporo Mini, even though they don't call it that. And maybe the old name used to be the Sapporo Mini. Like, this product used to be part of Sailor's default retail lineup, right? You had your ProGears, your 1911s, your smalls, your larges, and then they also had the ProGear Mini. And I bemoaned the fact that they went away. And it's like, I kind of understand it, right? It's a little bit of a specific pin. You can't really charge less for it because it's shorter, because it's really all the same materials and all of that.

Myke Hurley: It's a really small pin. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So it just kind of went away. And I was like, you know, that's probably the right decision. But it's back, Myke. It's back in... Now, you could get these in special editions like Bunbox did a whole Zodiac series. You know, there's been other like one-off Sailor Slim minis out there, like at the Japanese stores. But they haven't had it back in their standard product lineup in probably five, six, seven years, maybe more than that. So there's one, two, three, six colors now. And this is like a stock item. And I'm glad that they're doing this. Penn Chalet has them at $180 with the gold nib. It's like priced in between the ProGear Slim and the ProGear Standard. And, you know, that seems about right, I guess, for the price. I think the older ones were less than that. But I don't know, maybe to get them back into retail, since they're not going to sell a ton of them, they raised the price on these a little bit. But it seems fairly priced. What do you think about these? Would you ever have any use for this pen? Like, I adore it, right? I'm the pocket pen guy. Give me the mini pens, whatever. Would you ever use this pen?

Myke Hurley: I don't know. I think I need to see it. Because like from the imagery, it's hard to actually get like a real sense of the size and also the colors. Like the colors look interesting, but I think there's only a couple of them I would want because it's like there's some interesting things about them. They all have gold furniture and the grip sections are navy on every single pen. So I would want to see how they stack up against each other. But I think maybe the one thing that would turn me off at this pen is they can't take the sailor converter because they're too small. They're cartridge only. And I don't know if I would be... I just don't know how interested I would be in it in that regard because then it's like a whole other thing. I don't really have... I don't really have any cartridges and I'd need to... I have in cartridges for one pen in my life. Do you know what that is? Yes. Pilot M90. Yeah. And I have some purple Pilot cartridges that I love. And I just have a couple of boxes of those and I refill them every now and then. But like that's the sacrifice I'll make for the Pilot M90. And I don't think that that's necessarily a sacrifice that I'm making for at least any of the colors that we have here right now.

Brad Dowdy: I agree completely. Like I will not necessarily be buying any of these pens. Like if I can get... Like slate green is appealing. But in general, I'm not a gold trim guy. Like it has to really work for me to go with the gold trim or the rose gold trims. And there's been specific pens where that's really hit for me. I don't really see that for me in this lineup. But I'm just glad it exists now in the hope that maybe we'll get more of these in the future because I think it's just such a cool pen. But yes, there are some downsides like you mentioned. Like the cartridge converter thing is definitely, definitely a downside. You know what doesn't have a downside of the filling system, Myke? The Twisby 580 ALR. Like there is no cartridge or converter with this because it's just a big old honking piston. Big old piston. But that's not big old piston. But that's not what is interesting about this pen, Myke. It's the ALR in Prussian blue. It's that I've never seen Twisby do this type of color before. And it might be the best of them yet. I don't know. It's hard to say because Twisby does so many colors, so many colors that I love. But this is a, they've either done like really strong, solid plastic colors or the same colors, translucent plastic colors. Or in the ALR series, the 580 ALR series, they've done pastels, pinks and purples and blues, all that have been lighter. And then right when they launched it, they did some oranges that were good, like a real fire type of orange. This goes back to those very beginning colors. This is just a real striking color. The way all the aluminum parts are colorized in this pen. It's like, this is going to be the first 580 I've bought in a long time. A long time. And I'm going to get this one. This was a really, really good color. I love it. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: It's a very different, deeper, like stronger color than you normally see from them.

Brad Dowdy: It's like a saturated blue. Yeah. But it's not, it's not a normal blue. Yeah. Or a blue black or a turquoise. It's just this really cool color. It's clearly Prussian blue, Myke. It's, that's what it is.

Unopened Box Mystery

Brad Dowdy: Oh, Myke. Myke, Myke, Myke. I have a problem. What's your problem? I have a box sitting here. I actually brought it into the podcast room because I needed it in the vicinity. I have a box, an unopened box, and the address, the label is from Jonathan Brooks. In this box is something for me and something for you.

Myke Hurley: Oh, I know what's in that box.

Brad Dowdy: And something for Anna.

Myke Hurley: Mm-hmm.

Brad Dowdy: What is in the box, Myke?

Myke Hurley: I'm going to assume the results, good or bad, of trying to Arushi coat Alami Safari.

Brad Dowdy: You would assume correctly. Yeah. And you would assume correctly in your statement, good or bad.

Myke Hurley: Because we have no idea if it actually worked or not.

Brad Dowdy: And Jonathan's not sure. Like, he feels pretty good about it, right? But he's like, I will never do this again.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Brad Dowdy: Like, he's told me. So, all of you that are going to see these pens eventually, hopefully, don't ask Jonathan to make them. Because he ended up having to... We'll talk about this more once we solve the question of when do I open this box. So, be thinking about that. But I will just tell you... Are you not opening it now? No. You just got the box? I have the box. I've had it for a week. Wow. And I haven't opened it. I do not know what these pens look like. Well, doesn't Anna get a say? Like, you just want me to open it and send you all pictures? That's what I want. Yeah. I'm just saying that's what I want. I'm not telling you to do it now. But that's what I want. Okay. You would be... This is why I'm having this question. I have not touched this box. I don't know what any of these pens look like. And he did specifically say all of ours are very different. Like, mine is a different style than yours. And then Anna's is different from both of ours because hers was on a TWSBI All-Star. And he said hers was easier than both of ours. So, because there's more problems with the Safari. But I don't know what any of them look like. This box is taped up and I'm staring at it while I'm talking to you.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I want to know. Okay. You don't want to wait until we're like together. Nope. And see what the pens look like. And do like a whole special deal.

Myke Hurley: Okay. So, here's the thing. If I knew I was seeing you in two months, that's one thing. Exactly. But we have like an infinite possibility of time here. In the same vein of like if you said, oh, I'll mail it to you. That could take anywhere from 10 days to 70 days, right? With the way that the mailing is working right now. So, what I want is for you to open it, take a picture, show me the picture and then send it to me. That's what I want.

Brad Dowdy: What if we just like open it on video? Like what if we like recorded it or something and got on on there and did like a three-way mic and opened up the box and showed everyone their pens? I don't know. I don't know what the right thing is to do. You clearly have a, you have a defined answer. I'm not sure my answer is that defined.

Myke Hurley: My answer is I want to see it as soon as possible in whatever way or shape or form that takes.

Brad Dowdy: This has been sitting under my desk for a week. Do you know how hard that's been?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, because I'm right now, I want to know, right? So, like I feel the hardship of it. So, you need to talk to Anna. You need to see what Anna wants to do. I'm expecting Anna will probably want to do exactly what I want to do. And then we'll work out how we're going to unbox this thing.

Brad Dowdy: Ooh, maybe I just shoot an unboxing vid myself. Yes. And then like post it to YouTube for everyone to see. That works for me. Like I would share it with you and Anna first, but then let everyone see what these look like.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I don't need to be a part of the video in which, you know, I'm just going to see it no matter what way it's done. So, that would be my preference.

Brad Dowdy: You just want to know what's in the box as soon as possible. Don't care. Yes. All right. Fair enough.

Myke Hurley: I don't need it in front of me to know how I feel about it when I see it. I'm pretty proud of my restraint here. I can't believe you've done it. But I guess this is the thing though. You receive boxes all the time. Like I don't know if you have the same must open box feeling that a lot of people would have, you know.

Brad Dowdy: Right. I don't because I save a lot of my boxes to open on stream. But I will also say I had an hour long conversation with Jonathan about these pens before receiving the package. He's like, he wasn't going to send them to me until he got on the phone with me to tell me how hard it was. I told him a long time ago he should have given up because he had to remake some of the parts.

Brad Dowdy: Like some of the caps and things like that. Like the little finial snap ins on the caps. Had to remake them. My word.

Brad Dowdy: He's insane.

Myke Hurley: That's the only one it would have been if we could have unboxed them in Atlanta and just had to tell us a story. Wouldn't that have been amazing? That was his goal.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. That was the goal for the whole thing. What a shame. So yeah. It's all right. So we'll figure this out. I'm not going to open this box until I know exactly how to proceed once I do. So I'll talk to Anna today and then we'll figure it out. I'm thinking maybe like a box opening video that I just record myself. Like I wouldn't do it live on stream. I just record it and then post it for everyone to check out.

Myke Hurley: So I expect by next week's episode that will be done. Have you met me? Well, I could know. But as soon as Anna gives the green light, I'm going to hound you. Oh, okay. Right?

Brad Dowdy: So that's why. Oh, I like this. I kind of have some control here.

Brad Dowdy: Now I'm actually getting anxious to open them. There you go. There you go. There you go. I didn't take long. No, no.

Nib Grinds Update

Myke Hurley: So you got your nib grinds back, huh? Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Well, mostly I got my destruction back fixed, right? Yeah.

Myke Hurley: This is from Mark did these, right?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah. So Mark back as nib grinder. I sent him my mangled bung box fifth anniversary edition, which y'all seen on Twitter. And then I'm on Instagram. And I posted the picture that Mark sent me on Instagram of him finishing the nib. Like you'll have to go look. We'll over put a link in the show notes to how good the nib looks. From, you know, his repairs of my twisted mangled mess. And I said, well, since you have it, Mark, is this possible? And by this, I meant, what if we turn this into a posting nib, similar to my Pilot PO nib, which is on my Pilot Custom Heritage 912. If you don't know what a posting nib is, I have a review on my blog, or you can just look it up. Pilot P-O, P-O. It's basically the traditional postcard writing pen for Japan back in the 1900s when early to mid 1900s when they communicated a lot by postcard. They needed a nib that was very fine so they could cram a lot of letters onto the back of the postcard. And very firm to handle the questionable paper quality that they were dealing with. So it's this downturn nib. It's made to be kind of pointy like a nail. So that's been a long, long time favorite of mine. If you've listened or followed to me any length of time, you'll know what I think about the Pilot nib. I said, well, since you have this nib, can you bend this down and make it right like a posting nib? And in typical Mark fashion, yeah, no problem. So he sends me this video. He does this for all his customers. He sends a video when he's done of him using the nib and writing with him. I was like, oh, that looks pretty cool. And then I got it in. It's totally cool. I really like what he's done. And it's different than the Pilot nib, right? And it's not going to be the main reason it's different, even though the turndown and the angle and the size of the nib is generally the same. So the Pilot nib is 14 karat gold. And these bung box nibs in the full size Pro Gears are 21 karat gold. That makes a huge difference for a nib like the posting nib. So the Pilot one is very firm, very nail like. This one is still firm, but it's not like a nail. You can feel it a little bit of softness in it. But it writes really, really cool. It works with my angle, right? You have to have the right handwriting angle that can work with this type of nib pointing down. And I wouldn't recommend it to almost anyone without trying it. But it's a unique feel, unique angle. And it fits my handwriting style very well. And I'm very, very happy with this. And I wanted to try that little bit of experimentation. You know, well, I practically destroyed this nib, right? So the least I could do is try something cool with it. And if it fails, it fails. Like I've already mangled the whole darn thing. So let's try to do this. And he did it. And I'm very, very happy with it, if you couldn't tell by my joy as I talk about it. So yeah, I'll be using this one a lot. It's very cool. It's very different than a Pilot posting nib, though, just in softness.

Myke Hurley: So how do you have to write with it? Like you have to angle? Do you have to angle differently or it just fits for you?

Brad Dowdy: I don't. It fits for me because I can, it's a little bit of a lower angle, but it's made to be at a pretty standard angle. If you have a vertical handwriting style, this wouldn't even come close to working for you. So it works at a pretty standard handwriting to lower. Lower angle handwriting. So yeah, but I'm just, I just like it. I just like the fineness. It writes, to me, it writes like a very fine, like secure Pigma Micron. Like one of the smaller tip sizes, like a 01 or 02, which is something that I enjoy, right? I could write, if I took my Pilot posting nib side by side, I'll eventually do some side by side comparisons. I bet my line width with the Pilot is probably half the line width of this one. But that's to say that the Pilot's like 0.1 millimeter and this one's like 0.2 to 0.3 millimeter. Still super tiny, right? They're just different because of the softness. You get more spread in the tines as soon as you touch the page with a 21 karat gold nib, no matter what shape it's in. Okay. So then the other two nibs I got, I've been using the needle point he put on my Pelican 101. I've been using that as much as anything. I don't know. I've been using all three of these nibs. The other one was an Aurora extra fine. I got turned into a cursive italic. And you don't normally do that because with that fine of a nib, you can't get as much variation as you would expect from a cursive italic. But I just like how it kind of blocks out my letters. Like it's very edgy and squared off block style lettering as opposed to rounded edge lettering, which I prefer. So yeah, I've been using these a bunch. All of them. I've been using those three pens and the Curie Doss kind of all week have been my go-to pens. So my Curie Doss is, I'm going to keep, I'm going to ride or die with the Curie Doss until I can't write with it anymore. So right now it's going well.

Myke Hurley: All right. I think that wraps it up for today.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I think we're primed for big follow-up next week. Hopefully we'll get some answers on one or two aspects of what we talked about at the beginning of the show. I'm hoping at least one of them being the Curie Doss, like, because that affects a lot of people. I'm hoping we get an answer sooner than later. The other one, we may never get an answer and that's okay too.

Myke Hurley: If you want to find links to this week's episode, you can go to relay.fm slash penaddict slash 411 or you can find those links in your podcast app. You'll also find a link right there in your podcast app to become a RelayFM member and support this show. If you do, not only are you supporting the Penaddict podcast, you get your hands on wonderful benefits. Lots of members-only podcast content, members-only newsletter, and access to the RelayFM members Discord. Where right now, as of this week, not only are our live streams, do you have a chat for them, the live stream audio actually plays inside of the Discord app. So I believe it is now easier than ever to listen to our live stream if you're a RelayFM member. Discord is on every single platform. It's super easy. You can just turn on the live stream and you can hear me and Brad talk. So we're continuing to add other functionality into the Discord. It's becoming more and more awesome all the time. So this is a great reason to become a RelayFM member. It's an awesome community of people and you're also helping to support the shows that you love. So we would love it if you would consider becoming a RelayFM member, especially if you choose to support the Penaddict podcast with your RelayFM membership. Thanks so much to Penchalet for the support of this week's episode. And we'll be back next time. Until then, find Brad online. Whoa, I nearly forgot about it. Penaddict.com, NOC.co, Penaddict on Instagram, Dowdy is on Twitter. 10 a.m. Tuesdays, Thursdays, twitch.tv slash Penaddict. I am iMike, I-M-Y-K-E. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.