The Pen Addict 365/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	365
Title:	The Classic Flush
Release Date:	June 26th, 2019
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 365
Audio File:	Audio Episode 365
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 365
Length:	7474 min <br />1.233 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Brad Dowdy: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 365, and today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, Away, and the Canalea Penco. My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy.

Myke Hurley: Hello, Myke Hurley, how are you?

Brad Dowdy: I am fine and dandy, my friend, fine and dandy indeed.

Myke Hurley: Good, good, good to have you back on the show this week.

Brad Dowdy: Thank you for taking care of it last week for me, and to Myke too.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, we had an appropriately named fill-in, right? So, it was good. We had fun last week with Myke from Ink Dependence. He did a great job filling in. I put him through the fire drill, Myke, to get it through the show, but we talked about a lot of things. I think I stole all your thunder last week with him. Like, we covered it all, but I think we got a pretty good show today too.

Brad Dowdy: There's some stuff that I want to go over as well from the last episode, because Myke doesn't grow you the way that I do. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I felt bad for Myke a couple of times. I told him that after. I was like, you know, some of these things I'm just going to have to talk about, and you'll probably just go, okay. But he did an awesome job. We got a lot of great feedback on that. So, thanks, Myke, and thanks for everyone who gave us a shout-out last week.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. What do you want to cover for us today?

Previous Episode Recap

Myke Hurley: I want to do something that we do infrequently, and it's not an every week thing, and Myke and I did it last week, and I want to talk with this Myke, you, Myke, my favorite Myke. I'm not going to lie. You're my favorite Myke. I love you, Myke, Ink Dependence. That's all I ever really wanted to say, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. So, I want to talk about what you're using, because when I get guests on, you know, I always want to talk about what they're using, and we do that from time to time. It's not an every episode thing. So, I thought this was a good time to jump in behind that episode and see what things you have been using recently.

Brad Dowdy: You also put in the document what's catching my eye. So, I want to mention that, too. Yeah. But the stuff that I've been using, I mean, I don't necessarily want to cover the exact same things. So, I wanted to reference a notebook that I've been enjoying, like, for some infrequent stuff, which is the Studio Neat Totebook. You know, I love it so much, I made my own notebook based on it, but it is a great little just notebook. I love the panel book, and the totebook is a wonderful complement to that. But I've still, like, I'm surprised at how much I am still using and adoring my Kaweco Student 70s soul. That thing is, like, a mainstay.

Myke Hurley: I get a lot of people saying that. Like, I'll just get random tweets or messages from people who may not even necessarily listen to the podcast or keep up with the current episodes, just sending me, you know, links to this pen saying, I really enjoy this. Have you seen this? Check this out. Like, it's really kind of set itself apart. Very simple. In that lineup.

Brad Dowdy: But really, like, well executed. And this, you know, the 70s soul is a great design, like, colorway. Yeah, I'm a big fan of it.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, and what no one else mentions, which I find funny, which we talked about in the past when we've talked about this, there's a whole lineup of those pens, and no one cares about any of them except this exact one. It's fantastic.

Brad Dowdy: It's the only one that makes any sense. And then something that caught my eye, you posted on Instagram yesterday, like a writing sample using Robert Oster Barossa gilt. Yeah. It looks like silver gold.

Brad Dowdy: What is this? It's gold. It's for sure gold.

Myke Hurley: So it's part of Robert Oster's Shake and Shimmy lineup. That's their Shimmer Ink lineup. And it's a purple ink, kind of a darkish purple. It's got some really interesting underlying characteristics, a little bit of blue, a little bit of gray. It's shades, interestingly, around the edges. And the gilt part of it is gold. It's gold shimmer. It's thick, like the coverages, but like the ink is like very wet and lubricated, like it goes down wet, and it looks purple. And then all of a sudden when it dries, it's like this complete gold coverage. It's kind of wild how much coverage it has. And as I'm writing, you can tell right when you're writing on the page, like that it's got some gold and, you know, it's going to shimmer and things like that. But once you step away and it goes down, it starts to dry, the gold really pops. But until you kind of shine it in the light, which I had to take that picture, like angled the page into the light. So you could really see it because the pictures I took that were more straight on. You can't tell. And it's just, it's loaded with shimmer. So if that's your thing, that's going to be an ink that you want to look at the Shake and Shimmy lineup. I haven't, I think I have one other one I need to try. And obviously I prefer like the silver shimmer in mine, but this was an impressive ink for sure.

Brad Dowdy: And this might be some stuff to look out for at a pen show for me.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah. It's very cool. And I forget how many inks there are in the lineup. I think there's a, I think there's seven. Quite a lot. Okay. Yes. So, yep. So some of the things I'm using, and I think I've probably talked about this a little bit before, but I'm really stuck on my Nakaya long cigar and black mat. I really want you to try this pen. Like, I don't think this is the Nakaya for you necessarily, but I want you to try this pen because it's very different than the other ones that I've used. So I'll definitely be bringing this one to San Francisco.

Brad Dowdy: Is it the shape and size that is the biggest difference or is it the finish?

Myke Hurley: The finish. Okay. Like, I don't think you'll like the size of it. Like, it's a big pen. But I think you will like the finish. And I think you've tested, I think you've probably tried one of these before. But I just want to get it back into your hands to see what you think. It's super interesting feel. And I love, I love using this pen, even though it has a broad stub nib on it. I got that ground down to a stub, which is perfect for the size and shape of this pen and how I use this pen. You know, it's not a tiny handwriting pen. It's like a, it's a big bulky pen. And which is on the extreme end of things for me by, you know, by all measures against the rest of my collection. Right. It's a little bit of an outlier, but I'm really kind of fascinated with it. I'm very happy with it. I have it inked up with the Kiyo Nooto Noribiro ink, which is the black ink. It's kind of, I think it's maybe translates something into Raven. So black inks are generally boring. And I didn't want a boring ink in this pen. Like the pen's pretty basic in general, right? It's a black pen with a rhodium plated nib. So the first thing I put into it was a red ink, like a platinum classic. Like the Cassis red, I believe, or Cassis black, I think it's called. And I was like, oh good, I'm happy with this. And then it hit me that I have this really special black ink, this Kiyo Nooto Noribiro ink that has a lot of characteristics and a lot of sheen for a black ink. So that's the ink I'm in on with this pen. And I'm working on a review of that ink right now because it's different. Like this is the ink you would recommend to someone who has to use black ink in the office but wants to use a fountain pen. And they can get away with it just looking black on the page. But it's got this really interesting character to it, which those aren't words that go along with black ink very well at all.

Brad Dowdy: Well, that's always one of the problems, right, of being forced to use black ink is you don't really have any options. Which is why people like blue-black, but you're not allowed that sometimes.

Myke Hurley: Yep. So this is an answer to that. And I've known it since I've owned it. And it just clicked with me one day that that's the ink that has to go in this pen. It's kind of a perfect match. And the last thing I'm just recently starting to use, it's the Pebble Stationery A5 Kiyo. It's a Kickstarter from Pebble Stationery who did a Kickstarter for the pocket-sized Tomoe River notebooks. So this is an A5 size Tomoe River notebook. And what I love about, there's several things I love about this. One, the covers are thick. Like it's a soft-bound book, right? So it's a soft cover, but it has like a glue-bound almost type of cover to it. So it's really thick. Like you can hear it. Like the cover is super thick. And the pages are dot grid, which Tomoe River dot grid is kind of my thing. Like I love that. The products that I've had from them before, the small pocket notebook size of this, was one of the better constructed notebooks that I've used in a long time. So I was happy to get this one. They sent me a preview sample to test out. It's up on Kickstarter now. I've backed it for like, I don't know, two, three packs or two, two packs, however they come. Dot River, Tomoe, dot grid Tomoe River. I like Dot River. Yeah, Dot River. So this is the Dot River notebook. And I love it.

Brad Dowdy: I'm always happy to see this paper, this specific paper offered in different configurations, because more people who use fountain pens should have an opportunity to use it. So I'm always happy to see different notebooks that use Tomoe River, because it really is a special experience. It is not an everyday paper for most people, including me. Because if you're writing a lot, you have to wait. You have to wait for it to try. But it's something that is truly a wonderful experience to be able to use sometimes. So it's just perfect for fountain pens.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So thank you for making a dotted Tomoe River paper, which you can get in various things if you search hard enough. But I will take that over blank any day. Mine in the Nami Crossfield is dotted. Yep. Yep. They've done dots and reticles, I believe.

Brad Dowdy: That is, by the way, my favorite. It continues to be one of my very, very, very most favorite notebooks. The Seven Seas Crossfield from the Nami paper. So it's a big, fat A5 full of Tomoe River paper. It's really wonderful. And $26 is just an incredible deal. I absolutely love that notebook.

Myke Hurley: You're not going to get a lot of argument there. No. That's definitely one of the standout notebooks. So I love it.

Brad Dowdy: I can't believe it's $26. I forget the price.

Myke Hurley: Mm-hmm. Yep. It's a great deal.

Brad Dowdy: Wonderful.

Blackwing Volumes Edition Discussion

Myke Hurley: All right. So along the lines of what I'm using, I just got the Blackwing Volumes Edition in the latest subscription from them. This is the number 10. And I'm in love with this edition just right from the gate. Okay. It's a very simple looking pencil. Looks like a light gray. Yeah. It's like a light gray. It's a gray matte. It's got a matte finish. Uh-huh. So the story behind this one is, one of the reasons why I like it is the story behind it. So it's called The Journalism Pen. And it's based around a tribute to a journalist named Nellie Bly, who did this investigative reporting in the late 1800s around an insane asylum. And the series is called 10 Days in a Madhouse. And I'm not familiar with any of this. And the reason why I think it's cool is because I get an awesome stationery product and I get a story and I get to learn something. Right? So they like, not just, they didn't just say like, okay, this is what it's about. It's about Nellie Bly and investigative reporting and how important journalism is. They also provide you with the story itself printed on, like, it's not quite newsprint, but like the entire story, like as it was kind of laid out in the paper, like back in the 1800s, shipped with your, shipped with your pencil. So like I have this whole story to read now too, which I think is super fantastic. So I love this. I love the idea of this pencil. And I really love the style of the pencil, the black, excuse me, the gray matte barrel is super, super clean. It's got a silver ferrule and a dark gray eraser. It reminds me a lot of the Ada Lovelace pencil, which I love so much. It's a white barrel, black ferrule. And for some reason, I like these muted colors on the black wings. Like, you know, I've used some of the, you know, the wild ones, like the Tahoe and whatever the, like the, the lavender one was called. I forget the, the art series that the art movement that that was based on. But something about this one, plus it's got the extra fine, extra firm. I'm going to get that confused for the rest of my life. Extra fine and extra firm are two different things. So this has the extra firm core, which is their newest core. Or it's just an all around great pencil with a great story. So I think they did a really good job with this one.

Brad Dowdy: They continue to as well. It's really impressive. I was thinking about like, you know, off the heels of, of the field notes price increase, which I agree with. You know, I echo everything that you and Myke said, but that, you know, it's interesting to see that. But I was just thinking about like, what it must be like to come up with four ideas a year or whatever you end up having to do, right? To create a product like this. And we've seen many companies try and fail at it, right? Like it is.

Brad Dowdy: Now that I have dipped my toe into the water of production of a notebook, the trying to make, not just have the ideas, but make it all line up with the times that you need to release these things, that it must be a Herculean effort. But I've been thinking more about that stuff recently.

Myke Hurley: I was thinking a lot about that this morning specifically around this pencil. So it's funny that you say that because all I could think about this morning, and I don't even know how I got started down this path, was how many editions they have right now that are in the process. Yes. Not even like, not even like on the drawing board, but like in production.

Brad Dowdy: You've got to assume there has to be multiple because you have no idea if one's going to take four times longer than you thought. And if you're only working on one at a time, what are you going to do? There has to always be multiple ones, right? That would be my assumption.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. And how hard it is to coordinate and manage that process to hit these, you know, they're not exact dates, but they're close enough approximations that you need to hit around there. They have a window. You know, pretty closely. Yeah. You know, it's very small.

Brad Dowdy: They have a window that they have to hit. It's very small. And not just for time, but also like for the success of their company, right? Right. Right. I'm sure that there are dates internally where it's like, we've got to hit this date because otherwise we're going to have a problem.

Myke Hurley: Right. Right. So related to that, I noticed the price on this dozen was $27.95.

Myke Hurley: And that caught me a little bit off guard. And apparently that had changed, I don't know, within the past year. It wasn't a new price change. I was used to them being $24.95 a dozen. I'm a subscriber to their volumes edition. I don't know what I pay per dozen. I'd have to go back and look. You know, you obviously get a little bit of a break with that, but I'd have to look and check. But $27.95 for a dozen pencils, so let's say $28 per dozen, we're getting about to the point where I might have to think about that because I don't use all the dozen that I get, right? You know, is that value still there for me at that price point? Right now it's fine. Like, I don't have a problem with that. And I just wonder, you know, hopefully this price will stay like this for a while, but I can get the idea from some people looking at a dozen pencils for $28 going, whew, yeah, that's a special thought process to make that kind of purchase. I feel it's worth it, like, right now. But I'm getting closer to the uncomfortable edge of the price point. So we'll see. But, like, that goes hand in hand with what we're just saying about how hard this is, right? Like, the price has to justify the work that goes into it. So, like, I get it. Like, I totally get it. But I got to, you know, evaluate that for my personal usage and things like that. But I agree. Like, it's close.

Brad Dowdy: So coming up very soon, alarmingly soon, is the San Francisco Penn Show.

San Francisco Penn Show Announcement

Brad Dowdy: And alongside that, I don't actually think I ever mentioned this on the Penn Addict before, but on August 22nd, so a couple of days before the show, the day before, right, before the show begins, it's like Thursday night, and the San Francisco Penn Show begins on the 23rd, RelayFM is going to be hosting a fifth anniversary live show in San Francisco. It's going to be a big show. We're going to bring in a bunch of hosts across many RelayFM shows. And we're doing, like, a big fifth anniversary extravaganza because RelayFM turns five years old, like, four days before the live show. So if you're going to be in town for the San Francisco Penn Show, I really recommend it. We've got a great space. We're actually in San Francisco.

Brad Dowdy: We're up kind of in the Fisherman's Wharf area is where the show's going to be, near Coit Tower. So we've got, like, a wonderful location. If you've never really explored much of San Francisco before, it's a really nice place to go. And there's lots of interesting things to see in that area, which we're really happy about being in. It's a part of San Francisco that I really love. So that's going to be on August 22nd. We have some tickets available now. We will sell out for this show. So if you are going to be in town, I really recommend picking a ticket up. I think this is going to be something you won't want to miss. So you can go check it out. Am I invited? You're not only just invited, my friend. You're going to be a part of it in some fashion. We haven't worked out exactly what the show is going to be yet. But we are inviting and trying to get in as many RelayFM hosts as possible. So there's going to be some wonderful crossovers as a part of it. Nice. That should be amazing.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I have a note related to this. I had to change my hotel when I realized that the live show was Thursday night, not Wednesday night. So I wanted to make sure I had myself going to the Penn Show Hotel Thursday night incorrectly. So I now have my hotels situated. So I'm actually there for the show on Thursday evening and not having to travel back and forth. So I will be at the San Francisco Penn Show Friday morning in preparation for Friday night's live Penn Addict podcast.

Brad Dowdy: So the tickets are on sale for the fifth anniversary show. There will be a link in the show notes, but you can also go to ti.to.com slash RelayFM. Ti.to.com slash RelayFM. And you can get tickets there. And yeah, we will be doing the live show for the Penn Addict. And there will be more details about that soon. Yep. That's going to be on Saturday, right? No, Friday night. Friday night. Friday night. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Friday night, 9 p.m. No rest for the weary, Myke.

Brad Dowdy: My brain always tells me it's Saturday because I hate to think of the fact of doing two live shows one day after the other. But such is life. Such is life. All right. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over at Squarespace. You can make your next move with Squarespace. They will easily create a website for your next idea. You can get a domain with them. You can take advantage of and customize award-winning templates. You can set up an online store. It doesn't matter what type of website you want to make. Squarespace has all of the tools to let you do it. There is nothing to install or patch or upgrade. They've got you covered. And they have 24-7 customer support in case you need any help at all. I have been using Squarespace for so many projects over the years. And I have a couple of things in the hopper right now where I'm going to be setting up new Squarespace websites. And the reason I do that is because it's easy for me. I know exactly what I need to do. I don't need to get deep into code to work it out. I don't have to deal with anything that frustrates me. I don't have to learn anything new. It's all super simple for me to be able to put something on Squarespace. And I know that it's going to be a wonderful thing for you to use as well. You can go and try it out. Go to squarespace.com slash penaddict. And there's a full trial there. There's no credit card required to sign up. And then you'll be able to try it all out. And you'll be able to build your own website from scratch. And then when you're ready to launch it live to the world, they have to sign up for one of their plans. They start at just $12 a month. But you can get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain and show your support for this show when you use the offer code penaddict to check out. So once again, that's squarespace.com slash penaddict. And the code penaddict for 10% off your first purchase. Our thanks to Squarespace for the support of this show and all of RelayFM. Squarespace, make your next move, make your next website.

Myke Hurley: All right. So I was on the 1857 podcast this week. I think it came out on Monday. I just wanted to say thank you to Stuart Lennon and TJ Cosgrove for having me on. It was one of the most enjoyable conversations I've had. You know, outside of you, Myke, of course, like all of our conversations are brilliant and just fascinating and must listen. But it was just a good all-around conversation. We talked about a lot of stuff, not just pens and pencils and stationary stuff, but, you know, life and business and sports ball. I'm a sports ball guy. So we talked about that. So it was really cool. If you haven't ever listened to that podcast, that's one I could tell. That's a podcast I can recommend, like, point blank. You could just pick up today and join into the conversation. It's a very conversational, you know, what's going on this week with you personally type of podcast that eventually, like, mixes in some stationary stuff. They joke about how off-topic it is basically until, like, the last 15 minutes of the hour show. And then they kind of get to the topic. But it's just two enjoyable guys talking about stuff we love. That's not the only podcast I listen to this week, Myke. Did you know that your artist, Chris Rowland, who has done your art for the PodCon posters, was on the Art Supply Posse podcast?

Brad Dowdy: Did you know this? I did know this. It's in my list to listen to because I'm very intrigued to learn more about Chris's backstory, to be honest.

Myke Hurley: So you haven't listened to this? It's in my queue.

Myke Hurley: Boy, I really want to talk about it, but I'm not going to spoil it. There's a huge spoiler in there. And if you haven't listened to it, I'm not going to blow it for you. Like, I think you should listen to it, Myke.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Myke Hurley: So, yeah. No, it's really good. And it was actually going to be, you know, possibly a show title of this episode. But I'm not going to ruin the spoiler for you. So, huge spoiler alert. You should go listen to it.

Brad Dowdy: I feel very uncomfortable about this.

Myke Hurley: You shouldn't. You shouldn't. Okay. So, it's all.

Brad Dowdy: You're pitching it to me in a very, very concerning way.

Myke Hurley: But it's funny. As I listen to Chris talk about, like, his process and his art and his growing up, he's, as you can tell, for those who haven't seen his PodCon posters, for Myke, he's super detail-oriented and likes the tiny stuff. And that's why I like his artwork so much. And it was cool to listen to that.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I love working with Chris. He's done those two posters. And he's also done. He's also worked on some stuff for an unannounced upcoming project, which I'm incredibly excited to let people see.

Myke Hurley: Nice. Nice. So, I wanted to mention those two episodes. I actually re-listen to the 1857 podcast, which is not something I normally do for podcasts I'm on. And I enjoyed it. And then I listened to the Arts by Posse yesterday in preparation for this, unlike Myke, who is unprepared.

Myke Hurley: All right.

Brad Dowdy: If we want to do this, it's my turn. So, you spoke about some NotCo stuff last week, which seemed, I think, on the face of it, tricky. Sure. Like, you made kind of two negative announcements, I think. One, which is that you're not going to be going to DC. And then the second, that Nock is pulling away from retail. And I think on the face of it, they don't seem like good things. So, I wanted to kind of, like, dig into that a little bit more with you. Yeah, for sure. Myke was being nice.

NotCo Updates

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Like, that was one of the bombs I dropped on him. It's like, I got to talk about this. Like, I've announced it, right? So, and I had to put it in the show, and I kind of felt bad for him. Because that's really not his forte to, like, dig into that. So, I felt a little bit bad. But I did talk about it more on the 1857 podcast, too, which is another reason why you should go listen to that. You can hear more about it. But, yeah, like, the perception could be seen as negative, right, based on just those, like, the headline topics, right? The easy one is the DC show.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that one, honestly, I kind of just, like, brush off. It's just not a pen show you're going to. It's, like, is what it is, right?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, yeah. And, like, I was planning on going. But, like, I'm just so exhausted already this summer. It was, like, just the specter of that on my calendar was stressing me out. So, even though, like, I'm going to miss seeing a lot of people, and I'm going to miss seeing a lot of our customers, and will obviously miss one of the best sales show that we have during the year, I'm relieved. Like, I'm not even flinching that I'm not going to DC. Like, I hate it for other people who wanted to see me there and Jeff there and see our products. Like, I'm sad about that. But from a personal perspective, I'm just relieved. Like, it's cool. Like, I'm not non-issue for me at all. You know, I'll be going to, if I wasn't going to San Francisco, I'd obviously be going to DC. That all kind of plays in together. Like, these next two months, July and August in combination, have just so much work and travel in there. I needed a break. And if anything was going to give, that was the easiest thing to just kind of, like, let's step away from that one. It'll be fine. And we'll just go on from there. And, you know, there's future shows and future things to do. So that was easy.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, like, maybe on a different year, it would have been San Francisco that you might have skipped. But we have big commitments this year.

Myke Hurley: Yep. Yep, exactly. So, and I've got a bunch of stuff before that. Like, July is just crazy for me. And just the idea of leading into that this particular year was very tough. So hopefully we'll be back next year. And, you know, we'll go from there. But, yeah, shows for me are really hard to plan out, like, six months ahead. Like, you know, people want to know, like, in February, will I be at DC? Well, I mean, it was yes for the longest time. But as you get closer, the schedules change. The schedules get tighter. Things move around. Some things have to give. Like, I can't just fully plan out our show schedule that far in advance just based on other obligations. So retail. So this was a harder decision, I guess, to say out loud. But an easy decision when it comes to our financial stability at NOC. The short version, which I said on last week's show and on 1857, is the margins are bad. Like, it's not sustainable profit margins for NOC to continue absorbing the mass inventory that we have to carry to fulfill retail.

Brad Dowdy: But, like, I guess the question, because obviously, yes, that makes a lot of sense. But the question is, like, are you making, you know, do you, I don't know if you know if you were making it up in volume, right? Where it's like, it's great if you continue to sell the same amount of cases. Yes. But that's not a guarantee.

Myke Hurley: Right. So that's the trick, right? So we went into retail and we said we're going to absorb the lower margins for higher volume, right? So that's the general idea. And that works, sort of. But the bigger picture issue was it's hard to manage, right? We only have so much data we can go off of. And we have to order such a huge quantity to be able to fulfill retail orders on retailers' whims and how things are selling. Like, our retailers are spectacular to work with. They took less margins to carry our goods. They've, you know, driven sales of our goods and they've driven awareness of our brand. And I'm forever thankful for them. But the bottom line math was really bad for us and the volume did not make up for it. And when I talk about the volume, it kind of more ties into how NOC was when we started in the first few years where we could change and innovate much more quickly than we're able to do now. Like, our customers want two or three different colorways in our product lines per year.

Myke Hurley: Based on the volume I had to have to fulfill retail, we couldn't turn that inventory over quick enough.

Brad Dowdy: I want to dig into that a little bit with you because I want to make sure that I'm completely following. The issue was, like, you guys couldn't sustain enough cash flow to fulfill the orders required in the standard colors that retailers were taking. So you couldn't really take the bets on the other stuff. Is that right? Right.

Myke Hurley: So we couldn't change up our lineup with the frequency that our customers have been used to.

Brad Dowdy: Because the company's money was tied up in large orders and large inventory costs of holding retail stuff, which you wouldn't have to do if there were no retailers. But then you would also then have to hope that the demand is still as strong. Right. Like, that's the risk element.

Myke Hurley: Right, right. And we've come to the conclusion that we're better off with that risk level to where we're... Jeff and I are the happiest when we're making new designs and getting new colors made in our products. Like, when there's change in our lineup. There hasn't been a lot of change, like, in the past 9 or 12 months. And that's not what we've always done in the past. And it just leads to, like, it being static and boring.

Myke Hurley: We've lost a little bit of the stories we're able to tell when we do new things. Right? We can't talk about, you know, the same thing over and over again for 9 months. We want to talk about it every 3 months or every 5 months. Whatever that is. You know, I don't know that there's just a, like, a fixed date. But we know that, you know, like, having the quantities that we have in stock are really good for retail. They're not good for me and Jeff. And they're not good for the long-term health of the company. Like, there's nothing wrong with NOC, like, on a business level or perspective. But we have to change what we're doing to, like, kind of fix, like, the inventory issues that we're having right now. Like, it's just kind of grabbed hold of us and shaken us. Like, we can't innovate as quickly as we want as long as we're carrying this much inventory. So we're going to go back to doing a quicker turnover of products, which is what we've always done in the past. And just selling them directly ourselves, you know, and innovating and creating new products faster. Like, we get stuck in that too, right? Because we can't make, like, a brand new product at scale because we're tied up with all this other inventory. So, you know, it's trying to figure all that out. Like, we're 6 years into it and we're still trying to figure it out. Like, what's the right thing to do? Like, you never know the right thing to do sometimes until you do it. The retail was right in the beginning and it turns out it's not going to work now. Like, it's, you know, it's not a long-term sustainable thing and NOC is set up to be a long-term sustainable company. So we have to make hard decisions like this to just kind of get ourselves back on track.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I, it's interesting to me how much NOC changes. It's changed a lot and quickly. Mm-hmm. And I find that kind of fascinating.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I mean, we've gone from making cases in Jeff's bedroom to renting out a, essentially, garage to put our sewing machines in. And so that answer we were trying to solve is, well, how can we make more, right? Because we were getting popular. So we hired people to come. So for us, we had employees at the peak. We had three employees, which is a lot for us, right? And then we still couldn't keep up with the demand. And we had the lure of retail, right? Which is like something like you have to decide on. That's, do you forego the retail experience? Maybe we should have never done it. I don't know. I don't regret it one bit. But those are the questions we have to have. So at one point, we had to find, you know, outside manufacturing, you know, in the U.S. We want to keep everything in the U.S. So that was hard. Like we talked about when we went to outsource manufacturing, how it took us like two years to find a good manufacturer. So that's our great, our manufacturer is great. They make, our products are awesome, awesomely made. But that's another thing, like you can't control their schedules as much as I'd like to control their schedules. We figured that out over the years and years and years. So it's interesting. One of the things that the chat is bringing up as I'm looking at this while we're talking is our international customers. That's the hardest thing for us because we do have international retailers who are absorbing the markup hit and the tax and customs hit to bring our products to our international customers. You know, I talked a little bit about that on 1857 with Stuart because he is one of our retailers at Nero's Notes in the U.K. And our products will be harder for our international customers now. And we have quite a large international following, which is fantastic. So maybe there's some type of distribution thing that can happen, you know, later. That's something that hasn't even crossed our minds right now. We're just trying to kind of get ourselves set on course and start making new stuff here. Probably in like you're not going to see much change with NOC maybe throughout the end of this year. Maybe a little bit. We'll have some new. We have already new cases and new products and new colors coming out and all that stuff. But you probably won't see like the fruits of our labor now until next year.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. Well, I'm excited. I'm interested to see what comes of all of this. I like it when you guys keep pushing stuff.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Like we're at our best when we're creative. Me and Jeff. That's how both of us are. When we can do something cool that gets us excited. So we want to get that feeling back again. Not that we're ever not excited about our products, but it just has to happen more frequently. Right?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: So before we go on, I can give some kind of updates on what we have in the hopper. Right? So we have some projects going like the Oolala case. I should have hopefully a shipping notification today for the Oolala pen cases, the Seed A5 notebook case that we did a preorder for, which was a cool project to work on. I'm hoping today's the date that I was promised. And I've been checking like every other day for weeks now. And they were still on track. So I'm hoping to have shipping notifications today. After that, as soon as those come off the line, the knock Burton, the pen addict project case goes straight into the line. So hopefully those are done like in the August timeframe we were talking about. That's a much larger scale operation, but I'm hoping they have like all the month of July to get those done for those. So we'll have those in August. And then we're back into like normal production and new cases and new colors for our regular scheduled programming at Knock. So that's where the project stuff is right now.

Sponsor Introduction

Brad Dowdy: All right. I want to, should we take a break? We'll talk about our sponsor. Let's take a break. And then we have a product to talk about from that company. We'll get, you'll understand when we get to it. So today's episode is brought to you in part by the Canalea Penco. Canalea make wonderful pens inspired by the stunning landscapes of Hawaii. And their founders, Hugh and Carol, who are absolutely wonderful people, believe that the locations that they pick to base their pens on can help recharge spirits and connect us with nature. And the pens that they create have been inspired by particular photos that they have taken themselves when visiting locations in Hawaii that are meaningful to them. The story behind these pens is wonderful, but the execution is incredible. Every Canalea pen is handmade in a process that means that no two pens will ever look alike. The coloring of all of them is unique, right? There are colors that each pen has, but the actual makeup, the layout of them, every single one of them is different. And I absolutely love that. Canalea have a wide variety of styles of material as well as shapes of pen. And they're all absolutely stunning. I own four Canalea pens now because I can't stop myself from wanting them because they are among the most beautiful pens. That not only I have ever owned, but I've ever seen. You will be seriously hard pressed to find a collection of pens that is as stunning as these. Every new release is irresistible. And we actually have one to talk about in just a minute. Canalea pens use Yo-Oh No. 6 nibs. And you can buy steel or 18 karat gold nibs directly from Canalea. They offer sizes from extra fine to 1.1mm stub. And every single Canalea pen, whether bought online or at a pen show, leaves the shop after being inspected and tuned personally by Hugh to ensure that it writes like a dream. This is one of the other little things that I love about this company. Canalea Pen Co. is without a doubt one of my very favorite pen companies. Because Hugh and Carol are wonderful and caring people who have stories that they want to share with the world. And they do it by making truly inspiring products of incredibly high quality. You can check out their range of pens right now at CanaleaPenCo.com. That is K-A-N-I-L-E-A-P-E-N-C-O.com. Of course, there will be a link in the show notes. But CanaleaPenCo.com. They have a new model being released today as we record this, which is the 26th of June. Where are we, Brad? Are we in June? Thank you. 26th of June. 2019? My word. I have no idea what the date is. All I knew was the number. Anyway, the pen is called the Eolani. It's based on a photo of clouds at sunrise rising over the Haleakala volcano on the island of Maui, which is particularly special to me because I honeymooned in the shadow of Haleakala. But anyway, Canalea sent this pen a little bit early, so we're going to talk about it. This is the end of the ad portion of this episode. Go to CanaleaPenCo.com. Check out the wonderful pens. We have this new one to talk about, but they have just an absolutely wonderful selection of pens available. I just want to take a quick look just so I can shout out some of my favorites. The Haleakala silhouette, which is the yellow and gray one, is unbelievable. The Maui Makai, which is the one that's slightly see-through, looks like the ocean. That's one of my absolute favorites as well. There's just so many. Oh, the Kahakai is another one that looks like a beautiful beach. They're just all stunning, so go check them out yourself. But we have a new one to talk about. So both me and Brad received the Eolani, which is heavenly clouds, is what that means. We received it a few days ago. But what do you think? So I should just say, I want to just say, sorry, I really feel like I need to say this. They paid us to say that last part. They're not paying us to say this part.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So thanks to Hugh and Carol for their support of us. And I know we've been just, essentially we're super fans of Canalea. So, you know, take that in these reviews of this pen coming up, you know, with that in mind.

Brad Dowdy: But long-time listeners may remember that their last product, the Haleakla Sunset, they did the same thing. We got sent them in advance and then basically we spoke about it on the day that it came out. But, you know, they didn't pay us to do that. And we actually, I paid them for the pen, which, spoiler alert, I'm going to be doing again.

Myke Hurley: So, yeah, the word I used for this was finally. And not because, like, I've been waiting for, you know, something like crazy or wild from Canalea. But I was actually waiting for the dark model or the purple model. And I was just, we didn't know until they sent it to us or, well, really until they started teasing, like, online with the pictures. I'm like, yes, it's going to be purple probably, you know, based on the picture. So, I was thrilled that it was. And it's another just fantastic looking material. And that's kind of the thing that they do as good or maybe better than anyone is get these materials that you can't help. But, like, I'm trying to, like, stare through the blue in this material, Myke.

Brad Dowdy: This is the thing that surprises me the most about this pen. That this material has a property to it that I don't know if I've seen before. Where I have some elements of the blue where it feels like it is significantly deeper into the pen than is, like, possible by the laws of physics.

Myke Hurley: Okay. So, you're seeing the same thing that I'm trying to explain. Yeah. Like, I don't get it, right? The blue seems deeper. Like, the purple kind of rises to the surface and it's a beautiful swirl. It's got some light colors in it. And then the blue is a little bit shinier. And I don't know if that is giving it the depth that it has in the materials. So, it's really, really crazy. So, I love the look. I love the feel. One of the things I always forget, Myke, about Canalea is that the barrels actually come in five different shapes. Yeah, so do I. Because all of mine are the same shape. So, I have the classic one. Yeah. And I have the classic flush. Oh, that's what I mean.

Brad Dowdy: The classic flush. Sorry. Yeah. The classic flush. All of mine are that shape.

Myke Hurley: All of mine are that shape. That's the shape that I want. But it's like, you know, maybe I should try one of these other shapes sometimes. But it's kind of hard to get away from it. So, the way the Eolani fits in their lineup was exactly what I was hoping for when they first started talking about this. It's probably a couple months ago when we first started talking. They're like, oh, we're going to have a pen in June and, you know, get ready for the summer. And, like, they're super secretive. They don't really, like, give us, like, the down low until, like, it's time. Until it's, like, go time.

Brad Dowdy: No, they are. Another thing that Hugh and Carol are very good at is showpersonship. Right? But it goes down to their packaging, which I always adore, which is so beautiful. Like, you have to remove a sleeve and then open a box and then take out a little piece of cloth and then, you know, the pen's inside. It's like this whole thing. But the other thing is, right, they were like, we have this new pen. They don't show us it. They just send it. Which is much more, I think, for their product is a really interesting experience anyway because of the fact that they're all different. The photos that they have on the website, I don't know how they've done it, but they've actually done a really good job of showing the color variances that can exist in the pen. Because this is a pen that's very difficult to photograph. I opened mine in a dimly lit room and was like, huh, okay. It's a, like, dark purple pen. Then turned on a light and was like, oh, boy. And there's blue in here. There's silver in here. Like, this is one of those pens that, like, is very kind to well-lit environments. It is deep and moody, but beautiful. I adore it for its difference.

Brad Dowdy: And I think that this is, for me, this is like another absolute no-brainer from them. It's just a pen that I want to own because I don't own anything that looks like this. And they've absolutely nailed it once again.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. It goes with their lineup so well. Like, it is, like, it was where I was hoping they would go. Like, I had, like, my mind made up. Like, I'm glad it came out this way because I would have loved anything that they made just because I'm a super fan. Like you said, I've got one of the first Kohala sunsets is, like, my original one. And then my favorite is, like, you like the Haleakala. I like the Hanama Bay one. Like, that's the one I use a lot. And now the Eolani is right there with all of these. Like, it's so perfect for the brand, for the company, the execution. One of the things that I always trip out about with the Canalea pens, I have a lot of acrylic pens. None of them feel like this. Like, I think if you put 10 acrylic brands on a table in front of me, I think I could blind pick out the Canalea acrylic. Like, the way it feels, the way it's finished, the way, like, the edge rounding is, the way the grip feels, the way the threading feels. Like, it feels like a Canalea pen now, right? It doesn't feel like generic acrylic pen A. So, it's really, really well done. Hugh and Carol have done another fantastic job, and they've knocked it out of the park once again. Like, it's kind of a no-brainer, right? It's just kind of perfect. Perfect.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I adore it. I adore it. So, yeah, I'll be, they sent two models. One is steel, one is rose gold. I'll be giving them back the rose gold, paying them for the steel. So, just, Hugh and Carol, just so you know, we'll talk about this later on. I adore this pen. I'm so pleased to add it to my collection. I think it's wonderful. And again, I just want to really underscore this again. They did not pay us to say this. Like, this part, we could have said whatever we wanted. And you can go back in history and find every single time we've spoken about the pens from this company. Because me and Brad just adore them. Because they are so different. And it comes down from, like, the creative direction, as in picking the things that they want to work on. And then the materials themselves and the way that they're made. The whole process is fantastic. And they really, I think, not necessarily unlike a lot of companies, but, like, different to maybe a lot of other companies that I've bought pens from. The experience feels extremely premium. They really go the extra mile to provide you with an experience when you receive the pen and take it out of the packaging. That makes you feel like, oh, yeah, I spent a lot of money on this pen. And I can see where it's going. Like, that, I think, can be an important thing sometimes.

Myke Hurley: So, yeah. Yeah, because, I mean, we won't pull punches. This is an expensive pen. Yeah, they are expensive. No doubt. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: But I've never questioned the price. I don't think they're overpriced. They're on the expensive side, right, for pens in general. Yep. But I have never once thought to myself, oh, I'm not sure about this. Because the whole experience feels very premium. And if that's the case, then I'm very happy to pay it.

Myke Hurley: Yep, yep. And one last thing, spoiler alert, Myke. We will be interviewing Hugh and Carol in San Francisco. Yes. San Francisco pen show. I didn't know this. This is amazing. I have them lined up for the live Pen Addict show Friday evening, 9 o'clock at the San Francisco pen show. So, there you have it.

Brad Dowdy: I am very... That's a wonderful preview. I am so excited for that. It's going to be fantastic. Yep. All right. Do you want to talk about your most favorite pen release?

Myke Hurley: Is it now? It's the most anxious pen release, upcoming pen release, I guess. The Lamy 2000 100 Years Bauhaus Limited Edition, Myke. The secret is out. We were teased last week with a few words and a few texts that Lamy was coming out with a color variant of their black Macrelon famous Lamy 2000. And, you know, the assumption was... Well, you heard it was going to be blue. And so, I fully assumed it was going to be navy blue. And it is. So, it's basically like the blue-black edition, if you will. So, I want to know what you think about this. Because I obviously have a lot to say about it. It's a snooze fest. Because... Did you say it's a snooze fest? Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I don't care about navy blue when you sell a black one.

Myke Hurley: That seems to be the majority.

Brad Dowdy: And why on earth would you make 2,000 extra fine nib pens? Why is that the choice that they made?

Brad Dowdy: It's wild to me. Like, I find the extra fine even more perplexing than the navy blue.

Myke Hurley: Mm-hmm.

Brad Dowdy: Why did they make that decision?

Myke Hurley: So, I got to say, I'm on the other side of this. Well, I know because you love it, right? It's your thing. I don't. I don't. Okay. But it has to happen for us to get to the next place. We can't get there unless we go here first. What are you talking about? Where? Where are we going? I want purple. And I want red. And I want green. And I want orange. And I want all of the colors in Macrelon.

Brad Dowdy: That's fine. I agree with you, right? I agree with you on that. What I'm saying is, like, why did you make 2,000 extra fines? Because they have nib problems. That's my only guess. But that's wild. I mean, that's, like, wild to me. Like, I understand why they made it navy blue. I get it, right? Like, Lamy, in your shoes, I probably would have done the same thing, right? Like, if I'm releasing my first, let's say, like, first public, right, color of it, other than black, I understand why you'd go navy blue. But, like, extra fine, only extra fine, I'm making 2,000 of them, is wild. Why didn't you just make a 500 of one, 500? It just seems crazy to me.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, so it is wild. Because the picture doesn't even show an extra fine nib, like, there's no way that's an extra fine nib.

Brad Dowdy: No, it's like a stub nib or something. It's wild.

Myke Hurley: But, like, the backside of the card that, we have the link from Appleboom in the Netherlands. Applebaum, sorry. And they put, like, all the product information on there. And it sure enough says extra fine nib only, which is kind of crazy. It's like, I love you, Lamy. I want to help you, Lamy. Polished, high gloss, massive clip.

Brad Dowdy: Why is it massive? It's not massive. Is it massive?

Myke Hurley: It's not a massive. It's not a massive. It's not massive. So, I think it's good. I'm not anxious in owning one. I'd be... So, we haven't talked about the price in, what, 385 euros. If you take out the VAT for US market or just ballpark price range, comes out to 362-ish dollars. That's probably too much for me for this. Like, I don't want it that bad. Like, I would pay 225. Like, I was guessing. Like, I would pay 225. I guess it would be, like, 325. Yeah. And I was close. I was still short.

Brad Dowdy: The Lamy 2000 is, like, the best $200 pen you can buy. Oh, it's, like, $140, $150. All right. Okay, then. The best $140 pen you can buy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's where it ends. Yes. It doesn't go more than that. But in its price range, provided you get a good nib, it's the best one. But it's not exciting enough for more than that, even in Navy Blue.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So, it'll instantly sell out. Oh, of course it will, because it's limited. But, like, people were referring to it as Black Amber all over again. Black Amber was completely different. It wasn't a Macrolon pen. It was outrageously priced. And they ended up having to discount them to allow retailers to get rid of them. Um, this will not be the case. This will be an instant sellout. And, like, I'm not interested in really getting, I really want to see one. Um, I'm not saying I won't buy one, but I'm not, like, lining up to get one. I'm not going to hunt one down. I'm not in the queue to get one. Um, you know, limited to 1,919 pieces. You know, I'm glad it's here. I'm glad. And only because I want to see what's next, right? This is the path that I was hoping for, and the path I've been clamoring for. I don't know that it's going to continue. Because, right, this is a highly specific limited edition, right? I don't know if they have this in them to do annually. Um, unless, you know, they have other, like, highly specific limited editions. They're not making, like, this year's Lamy 2000, right? They're, this is the Bauhaus anniversary edition, right? So, I don't know that we may never see another one. And, well, that would stink. But that's what my hope is for this pen, is that we see the next one. And I hope it does well. But, like, it's, it's kind of getting raked over the coals a little bit online. I'm not so sure I see that. It's, you know, I get it, though. Like, I totally get it. I, I'm just, I'm glad that this pen exists just because there's a chance now. Where I wasn't ever sure there was a chance.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. I don't know. I understand what you're saying. I don't know if it means that they're going to make something exciting, though.

Brad Dowdy: That's a good way to wrap that up. I just, this hasn't really inspired confidence in me. If it would have been green, like a dark green, like a British racing green, maybe. Right? Or, like you say, like a dark purple or anything. But navy blue, when you make a black pen, it doesn't inspire confidence in my ability for you to then make an orange one.

Myke Hurley: It was pretty obvious that this was going to happen.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. If it's not, it's just unfortunate.

Myke Hurley: As soon as the word blue came out, right? That was like, oh, it's navy blue. It's 100% navy blue. Like, you could not get odds on that at the bookmaker. No.

Brad Dowdy: There's no world. There's no world in which it was going to be literally anything else.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Should we take a break?

Sponsors & Products

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Tell me about the suitcase I'm going to pack when I go to head over and take over Lamy, because that's when it's going to happen, right?

Brad Dowdy: All right. You're going to need an Away, because Away creates thoughtful products designed to change how you see the world. They start with the perfect suitcase, and now they offer a range of essentials now that solve real travel problems. They have different types of bags now, as well as just their suitcases, which is awesome. But the luggage is loaded with features. For example, the Away carry-on, which I think is really like the star product. It's the one that I use all the time. I have the aluminium one, which I love, and I use it all the time. One of the reasons I use it all the time is because it has a removable washable laundry bag in it to separate my dirty clothes from my clean clothes. Simple thing, but I love it. Obviously, it has the built-in battery, the optional ejectable battery to help keep your devices charged when you're out and traveling. Everyone knows the Away suitcase for that, and it's for good reason. But there's a bunch of other wonderful features. They come in an array of colors, two sizes, two materials. As I said, I love the aluminium, which is what I use, and I really love the way that case looks. Like in any aluminium case, it gets dinged up, but that's part of the appeal. So I have these wonderful little dings and dents in my case. It just really gives it that character that I enjoy. Away cases also have built-in compression pads to help you pack more in. And they have a bigger carry-on as well, which is larger in every way, but is also used to make the most of the overhead bin. It will still fit in the overhead. Away suitcases are designed to last a lifetime. You get a 100-day trial on everything, plus free shipping within the US, Europe, and Australia. I absolutely love my Away cases. I'm going to be getting one of their bigger ones soon, too, because I need to replace my suitcase. I love my Away carry-on so much. I hate my current suitcase, and I don't know why I haven't just replaced it in a way, so I'm going to be doing that for my bigger case, too. Their products are well-made. They're full of great features. I'm a big, big fan. You can go check it out right now, and for $20 off a suitcase, go to awaytravel.com slash penaddict and use the promo code penaddict during checkout. That is awaytravel.com slash penaddict in the code penaddict during checkout for $20 off a suitcase. So thanks to Away for their support of this show and RelayFM.

Myke Hurley: All right, so you want to tackle a few of these Ask TPAs? We've got a long one that we've got several long ones that we may have to hold until next episode, but I think we can knock out a few of these, right? Including our good friend, David Sparks, who we might see at the fifth anniversary show. We definitely should. He might be a good future penaddict guest because he's got a little bit of a problem.

Brad Dowdy: We've done terrible things to Dave. He was showing me his notebook arrangement and setup when I saw him at WWDC in San Jose. We've done terrible things to David Sparks, so I feel like we must help him whenever he has a question. So he hand-wrote this in, took a picture of it on Instagram, sent it to us, which is kind of fantastic. So for a while now, I've been using this Platinum 3776 with a broad nib, an architect grind. I genuinely like it. That's interesting. Like it. Although it can get a bit heavy with the ink. For the last few days, I've been writing of a TWSBI Eco stub nib. It's more legible, but it still feels odd to me. I'm having trouble deciding, but leaning towards the architect nib. What do you think? I think Dave needs to try something new, right?

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I mean, I'm sorry to have to say that to him, but...

Myke Hurley: Well, number one, I'm completely shocked that this is a question from him. This is how far he's gone down the path. Number two, and we'll put this link in the show notes so you all can see it. His handwriting looks better with an architect nib, I think. It does. And I'm surprised to say that because as much as I like my architect nibs, I don't want to use them all day, right? I want to use my stub nibs all day. That's my preferred style. But, you know, I've never seen Dave Wright. I don't know what his hand positioning is like, you know, maybe that just works better for him at the angle he's writing with. So, yeah, I just, I think it's like, I don't, I don't know what to tell him. Like I, his handwriting looks better in the architect nib, but it's getting a little wet, he says. But I mean, man, a broad 3776 platinum, that's kind of the way to go. That's kind of like what I think is like the standard architect size and it, but it can get big and wet. So depending on how much writing he's doing, I could never write all day with that nib. That's just me. But if his hand, if his style is suitable to that, I think it looks good. And could he go with something a little finer maybe? Would that help? He could, he could. But the way his stub handwriting is, like it looks forced to me. His stub nib doesn't look like it's at the correct angle the way his, his lines look to me. So we'll, maybe we'll do an analysis in person with, with Dave because it doesn't look like he's getting out of a stub nib what it should offer.

Brad Dowdy: Interesting. Oh, we're going deep on that one. All right, Dave, we haven't been able to help you, but we will.

Myke Hurley: So we, we will. We just ruined him more with that statement.

Brad Dowdy: Email from Jacob. I went back into the 2019 Panavik Kickstarter today just to look at the Burton again. Super excited for that case. And I started thinking, what was the inspiration or thoughts behind the design? So where did the design come from for the Burton?

Myke Hurley: So this goes back to a product we make called the Lanier, which is a slimline briefcase. Within the Lanier, we wanted to make it in two distinct parts, but still one bag. So the first part was a large pouch for A4 size notebooks and accessories. And the interior contained an A5 pouch for smaller accessories, pens, A5 notebooks, pocket notebooks, things like that. That bag design came out of my desire for the want of a bank bag, what I call a bank bag. It's the kind of the bags you see, you know, retail shops carry their cash in when they're going to drop it off at the bank deposit, right? Something like that. So it has a top zip and then a lot of them round off on one corner just for easier access into the pouch. So you don't just have the zip on the top. It comes around the edge in a curved manner to give you a little bit more of an opening. So that whole product came from my desire to build a bank bag. And then the bank bag became the A5 Lanier pouch. The A5 Lanier pouch became a pouch that people wanted to carry as their standalone product. And then the Burton came as a result of upgrading that interior pouch into its own standalone pouch

Brad Dowdy: for the Kickstarter campaign. And that's the whole bag and bag thing from a long time ago, right? Yeah, bag and bag.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, exactly. So the result that you see in the Burton really started because I wanted a basic bank bag to carry accessories in. And then that's kind of the transition it took over the years to the very beginning where, well, maybe it's a standalone product. And maybe like the Lanier A5 pouch will probably have some standalone pouches for that style. But then the Burton really like turns that up to 11. And, you know, now it's its own standalone thing. So that's how that process went. Like that was a, that's years long worth of like change and modification. And all because I just wanted a bank bag.

Brad Dowdy: And then Jacob goes on to say, would you ever consider a Twitch stream talking about how you and Jeff come up with your product designs in general or going through some thoughts behind a certain design and its features?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, for sure. So like I should get out some of like the sketches I keep of product designs. I do, I do worry a little bit, like it would have to be after the fact. It would be, have to be like post-release. I do worry a little bit about setting our ideas free out on the internet. No, you've got to do it later on. Like for older things. But like I have like a bunch of sketches and Jeff has a bunch of sketches. And we can talk about like the iterative process that we go through when we're designing a bag. I mean, and like it's not just, it's, I make it sound a lot of times like it's easy and we just do it on a whim. But like if we come up with like two or three designs a year, that's a lot, right? It just, it's a process of figuring out over time what's going to work right and what's going to be best. And then trying that out and trying and failing. Like we've designed all kinds of bigger bags that we just don't think are good enough. Like our designs are not good enough, like for larger bags. So like some of the things get scrapped and things like that. So it's fun to do that stuff. And it's a long process. I don't want to make it sound easier than it is. Like, you know, I talk about, you know, Jeff, when he designed the Coleman, he's like, look, I made a water bottle case. Well, you know, that, you know, that's kind of how it starts. But then to get it into a product, that takes a lot. And that would be a great like stream to have about how those products come to life. Because it's not as easy as I pretend like it sounds sometimes.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Here's an interesting one. This comes from John. In the hit series, The Expanse on Amazon Prime. I like hit series. It's just a funny phrase to me.

Myke Hurley: I've never heard of it. Does that make it a hit? Yes. I'm not a good TV person.

Brad Dowdy: I think by default that does. A mysterious fountain pen shows up in season two, episode 12, around 14 minutes in. Do you have any idea what this pen is?

Myke Hurley: So I love this question. Number one. Number two. These people are in outer space. Like, I guess dudes on a spaceship here are like, he's definitely in the future. Right. Because I went and looked. It's like, assumedly the year 2350.

TV Show Pen Identification

Brad Dowdy: The funny thing is, so you took a screenshot for me, right? Have you looked at that screenshot?

Myke Hurley: No.

Brad Dowdy: It's black. Shoot. Well, because of copyright protection.

Myke Hurley: Really?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Oh, man.

Brad Dowdy: There's not going to be an easy way for you to screenshot this. Oh, okay. So. You just have to go check it out yourself, I guess.

Myke Hurley: So, I think I know what pen this is. I think I'm like 90% certain. Like, we're like forgetting the fact that this is like 200 and something years into the future and guys using a fountain pen, right? Like a super traditional fountain pen. It's a Pilot Custom Heritage 912. I'm almost certain. Because the first thing I thought it was, was a black Sailor Pro Gear. Like, it's a very simple black and rhodium trim pen. But it didn't have a finial on the cap. So, it's just a flat black cap. And it's got a double ring band. Where it has a, on the cap, it's got a double cap band. So, it's got a wide cap band. And then a thin line cap band. And the clip, like I got a good shot of it just laying on the desk. It's virtually identical to the Pilot Custom Heritage 912. And I would bet money that that's what that pen is. Because it's very basic and generic looking. Like, there's not a lot of, you know, telltale signs other than the clip and the cap band. And I'm pretty certain that's it. And I'm ticked that I don't have a good picture. Because I wanted to try to get confirmation from our listeners and put this in the show notes. But I didn't even consider that. That stinks. So, we'll figure out. Yeah. So, I'll take a picture of it with my phone, right? Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: People have to go look themselves, I guess. I'm sure most of our listeners have Amazon Prime, right? Because you get Prime Video for just being a Prime subscriber. Whatever.

Brad Dowdy: So, yeah. I think someone's found it. I think we have it in the chat room. Yeah, we have one in the chat from... Okay, good.

Brad Dowdy: Myke found it for us. So, I'm going to put it in the show notes to a Reddit thread where people are going through it, too.

Myke Hurley: So, their conclusion is that it's a Pro Gear? See, I didn't think it had a finial on it. Maybe they just covered it up. But I thought... That was my first inclination was that it was a Pro Gear. But then I assumed since it didn't have the anchor...

Brad Dowdy: That's a Pro Gear, man. That's a Pro Gear. I've zoomed in on it. Yeah. 100% that is. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Oh, you can... So, it's there? Good. Yeah. Yeah, that's a Pro Gear for sure. Okay. So, my initial idea was right and then I assumed incorrectly.

Brad Dowdy: I love that they used a Pro Gear. Maybe I should watch this TV show.

Myke Hurley: I just love that 200 years from now, he's using a fountain pen on his spaceship.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm.

Myke Hurley: That's pretty cool.

Brad Dowdy: Should we wrap it up with an interesting, slightly controversial question today?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, because I don't think this is controversial at all.

Brad Dowdy: Maybe. Well, maybe. I don't know. I like it. I like this question.

Myke Hurley: All right, so... Yeah, I love this question. I replied saying, I love this question.

Brad Dowdy: From an anonymous individual, because of its controversial nature, goes, Is it weird for me to ignore Nakaya because they use converters rather than a more exotic filling system? There are a few Nakaya models that I really like, but despite this, I have ignored them in favor of other options with piston or vacuum filling system. I've had the opportunity to try a Nakaya with the SM Elastic nib. I thought the nib was excellent, and I love the Arushi and how the ebonite felt in the hand, but I can't bring myself to spend so much money on a pen with a converter. I don't have a problem with converters in cheaper pens, just expensive ones. For context, the Nakaya that I would buy is a custom Decapod, which costs upwards of $2,000 Australian dollars or $1,400 US dollars once shipping, import duties, and sales tax have been factored in. I considered a Decapod earlier this year, because I was extremely lucky at an opportunity to spend such a large sum on a pen, but I decided to go a different route. The number one factor against the Decapod for me was being the converter, is the filling system. The pen I ended up buying instead had a piston filler. So back to the original question. I know that personal tastes are perhaps the biggest factor in pens, especially when spending large figures, but it feels strange to me that I am turning away from an entire brand of models that I am pretty sure I would like, if not love, just because of one perhaps minor factor. Is that weird? After writing all of the above, I realized that although Nakaya is what I'm most interested in, there are many other pens that I have looked past. Because of my bias against converters and expensive pens, like Pilot Custom Marushi, 845, Sailor King of Pen, and I'm sure there are many more that I've missed. What do you think about this?

Myke Hurley: I think it's an awesome question, and I don't think it's a bias, and I just think it's a preference, and I think it's okay to ignore that, right? I mean, it has to be, because you don't want to second-guess yourself spending that kind of money on a pen when you're going to be frustrated with the filling system. No buyer's remorse.

Brad Dowdy: When you're going to that level.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, you cannot regret anything when you're spending that kind of money. You have to be 100% committed to loving and using that pen daily.

Myke Hurley: But that is a preference that a lot of people have. Some people refuse to use converters. Some people will only buy pistons. Some people don't care. I fall on the ladder camp. I'm more of, you know, I like the exterior and the nib are the selling points before I get to the filling system. Other people, the filling system may drive the choice about buying the pen. So, I don't think this is a weird question at all, and it's absolutely preference-based. Like, I can't tell you what to do or what to buy, but it doesn't sound to me like you would be happy spending that kind of money if you're going to question, like, the filling system. Like, and with, like, something like the Decapod, like, it can be a smaller, lighter pen. Sometimes, you know, maybe that the piston filling system, people like it because it gives you a heavier pen because there's more hardware involved in creating that type of filling system as opposed to just a converter pen. So, maybe that's, like, a thing to think about. So, you know, I don't think it's a weird question at all. And some people just have their personal preferences, and that's totally okay.

Myke Hurley: So, what you could do maybe is buy, like, a coned bulk filler and a Nakaya nib and try to figure out how to mash those in together. And then you'll have your perfect pen with the huge filling system.

Brad Dowdy: Ah, but then you miss out on the design. I know, I know. I was just trying to solve that. So, I would say something like the King of Pen. I would be a little bit more hesitant if that King of Pen just looked like a regular converter in there, but it has all that wild hardware, right, which makes it a little bit more exciting to look at. But, like, if I was just looking, like, a demonstrator with just a big converter in it, I'd be like, oh, did I spend all that money on that? Like, I like that they went the extra mile and put some extra goings-on inside the body.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, the Sailor King of Pen is a very, very good example just because it's kind of outrageously priced for what it is, to be perfectly honest. And we've talked about this many, many times. And if it was more basic, they couldn't get away with that, right? If those internals were a little bit more basic, it would not work at the price points they're getting for those pens.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. All right, if you want to find the show notes for this week's episode, you can go to relay.fm slash penaddict slash 365. We're going to be doing horror stories next time. So excited for that. Can't wait for some more horror stories. Thanks so much to our sponsors this week, Canalea Penco, Squarespace, and Away. Thank you so much for listening. You can find Brad's work over at penaddict.com. He's penaddict on Instagram, twitch.tv slash penaddict, and dowdyism on Twitter. I am at imike, I-M-Y-K-E. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.