The Pen Addict 318/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	318
Title:	The Pen Thief
Release Date:	July 25th, 2018
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	Less Harper
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 318
Audio File:	Audio Episode 318
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 318
Length:	7979 min <br />1.317 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Introduction

Brad Dowdy: Hello, and welcome to episode 318 of The Pen Addict podcast. I'm your host, Brad Dowdy. And with me, once again, is not Myke Hurley. I don't know when he's coming back, if he's coming back, but that's okay, because my lineup of guests have been all stars and I have another all star with me today. And that's Les Herger. Thank you for joining me today, Les. I really appreciate it.

Les Herger: Well, no problem. It's my pleasure.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, and for those of you who don't know, and I'll let Les expand on these topics as we go through the show, she writes at the Comfortable Shoes Studio blog and is one of the three hosts of the RSVP podcast, which I'm a huge fan of. I'll have to admit, I'm like two episodes behind, maybe, but I always catch up at some point. So I appreciate the work that y'all do on that podcast. It's a great job. You, Dee, and Lenore do.

Les Herger: Oh, thank you.

Brad Dowdy: As I like to start with new guests to the show, I think most of our listeners like to get a good background for how you just started in stationary period, because what we do now is weird to begin with. So how did that happen? We talk about pens and pencils on the internet. Like, it's weird to say that out loud, but how did the weirdness start? You know, did it start like back when you were a kid, you know, as you were older? How did your love of stationary come about?

Les Herger: Really early. I was a really active kid, and there were three of us at home, and one of the ways that my parents would keep us busy was basically to throw a pad of paper, crayons, or pencils at me specifically. My brother's less so, but that would keep me occupied for hours on end. So, yeah, when I was in high school, I got a refillable stainless steel Pentel pen that I used for all of my art classes, and that was back in the 90s.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I don't like, I can't even picture what that would be. That's kind of cool.

Les Herger: It felt really fancy, and I know it was only like, you know, it was like a $5 pen. Right. But, you know, all of my friends wanted it, and one of my friends actually ended up stealing it. And she admitted, like, we got together for beers not long ago, and she actually admitted, she's like, yeah, I lied. I totally stole your pen on purpose. And I guess she used it all through college, so. Oh, my God. But, yeah.

Brad Dowdy: When you're a kid, that's like a $100 pen at that age when you're in high school. That's a big-time pen, yeah, especially like in the 90s and stuff. Yeah. That's awesome. So was it, I'm assuming it was probably like a rollerball pen, you know, that was refillable or a ballpoint, something like that. Was that the style of pens that you kind of gravitated towards in high school? Like if you were just writing stuff, not, we'll talk about, you know, how you got more into the art and some of the tools that you used for that. But just from a writing perspective, were those the types of things you were using?

Les Herger: Yeah. I went for rollerballs. The Precise V, those were like the pen at my high school. Everyone wanted those Precise V, you know, the V5 pens.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know people, like, cared about what they were writing with if they showed up with one of those in class.

Les Herger: Yeah. Yeah. Those were like the fancy ones. But the Pentel, the stainless steel pen, it was a rollerball and it had this, like, it was very strange. Like it was the entire front end of the pen unscrewed and that's, you know, that disposed. And then it was like a whole new cartridge. It was just like, you know, these, the cap and then the main body of the pen that was, you know, you kept. But I've never been able to find them online.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, that's crazy. That'd be cool to kind of, like, research and find that one thing. My fancy pen when I was in high school, I'm a little bit older than you. Well, maybe a lot a bit older. In the 80s was like the Parker Vector. It had like a metal barrel rollerball. And they still make those today. Like you can still find them. But for some reason I saw, I don't know if you follow a blog called My Supply Room, a gentleman named George. He just posts like all this random huge collection that he has. And he posted this camo Parker Vector. And like all the memories came rushing back to me. Like I had this weird little camo pen that I used, you know, when I was in ninth grade going, oh, my gosh, that's it. Like I can't believe that thing still exists. And how many memories it brought back too. Like, you know, that stuff's important when we were kids, seeing how important it is to us now that we're adults.

Les Herger: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just so fascinating to like look back at all of those things. And like, I mean, when I got together with the pen thief, like we had like this long discussion about how cool that pen was.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And it's always interesting when you get the pen people around, the non-pen people, you can always rope them in, right? Like she stole that pen, but she probably never became like a pen person like you or I did. But she can still like have this conversation about this pen. And it was part of her, you know, growing up and going through school and had some experiences. And that's one of the things that I love about stationery. So how did this turn into a blog? How did you decide, well, I'm going to start writing about the things I use and sharing that on the internet?

Les Herger: So that, that, that, do we have time for this? Yes, we do. So I actually started blogging in, oh man, it was early days. It was like 2002, late 2002, early 2003. And initially my blog had nothing to do with art, nothing to do with stationery. I was writing about my breakup and the antics of my ex.

Blogging Beginnings

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, well, that's what the internet was for, right?

Les Herger: Oh yeah. You know, that was like 2002, that was all, everything was about, you know, antics. And my, you know, my, my ex had some pretty serious issues.

Les Herger: Benign issues, but serious issues nonetheless. Yeah. She's, she's actually a lovely person, but that was a rough time in her life. And so I just started, I was like, you know, I need to write about this stuff. And I had this live journal. I didn't like the live journal. Then I went to another server and I just started writing and I'd always had this love of writing. And, and, you know, I just started this journal online and I had a very quick readership. People really liked reading about if, if, cause if I didn't have a sense of humor about it, it was, it was either cry, cry or laugh. Right. And I chose laugh. Um, and at one point I was like, you know what, I'm just really tired about writing about this. And I, you know, I'd spent like six months writing about it. Um, and I just started writing about some of my art stuff and it really didn't fit the blog at the time. So I left it up to the readers. I asked them, I was like, you know, I'm done with this. I've moved on. I'm dating other people and you know, my life is good now and there isn't drama anymore. Are you okay with me writing about art? And everyone that was reading was like, well, it's not really what I'm here for, but yeah. You know, like, cause I'd been seeing some of the art that I was posting. Cause I was starting to post some pictures and talking about the fact that art was making me feel better.

Les Herger: Um, and so they, they were okay with it. Some of them followed me to the new blog. So I, I closed that blog because I just, I didn't, it wasn't me anymore. And I, I, that's when I opened comfortable shoes studio. And I think, I think that was probably like a year or two later when I really moved the blog into the new space. And, um, that's really like at the time, I mean, this is a little further down the list of questions, but, um, at the time there really, there wasn't anything online about bookbinding. That like, there were no, I couldn't find any blogs. There was Keith A. Smith's website, but he didn't keep a blog. He didn't put his experimentations with bookbinding online. And, uh, and I was teaching myself how to do this. So I just started taking pictures of my process and posting it online. And then because what I was really doing was I couldn't find a sketchbook I liked. So that led to bookbinding. And I just followed that rabbit hole down really deep. And then, you know, once I got to a point where I was like, Hey, I found a bookbinding style that works for me and my art style. I sort of left bookbinding behind. Although at that point I was making and selling books on eBay as this was early days, you know, that was very, very early. Um, and I was making these six by nine inch, four inch thick mega tomes that were leather bound. And, you know, they were making, I was selling them for two or $300 a piece on eBay. And, you know, they were just really artistic and people liked them. So, um, yeah, that was, that was a really interesting summer in my life.

Brad Dowdy: So just as the art hobby was, was that, I was, I guess, was I going to ask, was that a hobby? Was that a job? Was that just something you did because you enjoyed it? How did that just like the art and bookbinding, um, you know, part of your life play into your regular life?

Les Herger: Well, I was an art teacher. Okay. Um, so yeah, so, so.

Brad Dowdy: There you have it.

Les Herger: I was, I was teaching art during the school year and then I had my summers off. So the year that I was really getting into the blogging, um, at, after the breakup, I, I was traveling around the state of Maine, going to scenic places, painting and drawing on site, and then bringing that artwork home, photographing it and throwing it up on eBay. There are people out there who have original pieces of artwork that I did at like West Quadi Head, Cobb Skook Bay for the, and they bought them for like 10 cents plus shipping and handling. Whoa. Because I was, I was just churning out all of this artwork in an effort to be able to pay my rent. Right. And I didn't care. At that point, I didn't really care how much it went for. I was just like, I need, I need to move this. Right. I don't have storage room for it. I have a studio apartment. I needed to get it out. And, you know, some of, some of the artwork sold for a lot more and some of it did. It went for 10 cents. I was like, well, that's, that's an auction.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Les Herger: But.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Wow. That's great. I, I didn't realize that. I didn't, I didn't put that together. So you had all, you had all the cool supplies way back then.

Les Herger: I did. I was, yeah. That, and that was my main focus was, was the art. It wasn't so much the stationary.

Les Herger: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And I'm trying to think when, like I started the pen addict in 2007, I discovered your blog pretty early on, probably maybe in the next year or so when I realized that I wasn't the only one out there doing this. Yeah. And I can't remember the exact thing that brought me to your site, but I do remember the, all the bookbinding posts. I remember that more than like, you know, art or, you know, reviews or anything like that. I do remember that, um, primarily because my sister is a bookbinder. And so like that resonated with me. But what I really came for was you probably mentioned something about, you know, the pens or, you know, the inks you were using. And I found it through Google and then I started linking to your blog and not really like at that time, like there was you and there was Johnny at Pencil Revolution. And then Anna back then was going by, uh, Snow Angels, I think something like that. Like I found her like in the beginning too, right around the same timeframe. And that's like all I can remember kind of when I started blogging. Um, it was a really, really interesting time because there wasn't anything out there like this. I mean, we're talking like, you know, this was like a time before automobiles and stuff like that. But they're really like for us, there wasn't that stuff out there. You couldn't go online and find a review about a pen or anything like that. Right. So when did you start like reviewing products, like, you know, discussing like the tools you used instead of the things you make? Was there like a conscious switch to that?

Les Herger: Yeah. I had a lot of people who were reading my blog asking me specifically about the materials I was using for making books and then also the materials I was using for making art. And I had this big exploration process because initially when I was drawing out in public, I was using a dip pen. So I was going out with paper taped to boards and a stack of boards hiking with the boards in my backpack, plus a bottle, plastic bottle of India ink and a handful of nibs. And it was really messy.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Les Herger: So, you know, I was getting ink all over myself. My clothes were covered with spatters of black ink. And so there was this point where I was like, I need to find a fountain pen that I could fill with India ink, which I know everyone is like, oh my God, why? So I found, actually, I was rooting through my dad's old desk from when he was a kid. And I found this off-brand, unknown, German-made fountain pen. And the first thing I did was open it up and fill it full of India ink. And I used it until it just couldn't handle it anymore. It clogged up and it leaked and it blurbed. And it was awful. It was a mess. And so I tossed that and I ended up going on eBay. Again, back to the early days of eBay when you could actually get really, really good deals. And I ordered a Pelican Go. And, you know, back then they went for maybe 20 bucks.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Les Herger: And I got the piston filling version and immediately filled that thing up with India ink. And it was my go-to. You know, I was using that to draw with on a regular basis and it was great. You know, I never had any problems. I just kept, I would run out of ink and fill it back up and never clean it, never wash it, and just keep going. It just worked. Oh, that's pretty cool. And so I think one of my first reviews was of that Pelican Go.

Brad Dowdy: So throughout the history of your blog, and we're going to keep exploring this topic because I'm fascinated by it. Are all these posts still up? Like, do you have like the history of all the posts that since you've started still tied into the blog?

Les Herger: No, not all of them. So I, in the early days, I bounced around from service to service to service.

Brad Dowdy: For sure. I know that.

Les Herger: And I, at one point, like I was self-hosting and I don't remember what service I was using. And when I, then I decided I wanted to use Blogger for some unknown reason. And when I moved from the self-host to the Blogger self-host, I lost maybe three or four years worth of posts. And I didn't care. I was just like, yeah, whatever. Because, you know, I wasn't as concerned with it. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Les Herger: And I just let it go. And then I moved from Blogger to TypePad before it started being awful. Yeah. And I was there for a long, long time.

Brad Dowdy: Our paths are like exactly the same so far.

Les Herger: Yeah.

Les Herger: And I did self-hosted TypePad. So I hosted it myself. But then when that was awful, I switched to self-hosted WordPress. And I've been there ever since. But I have the majority of all of my posts going back to, I think, about 2008, 2006. And the original blog that I had, they had a service and it's now defunct. It was on a service called Diary X.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

Les Herger: Which was really early days.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I'm not even familiar with that one. And I've used lots of platforms. I've never heard of that one.

Les Herger: It was actually really fabulous. It was very, very basic, very simple. You could make it look like whatever you really wanted to. I mean, for 2003 levels of what you wanted it to look like. But they had a thing where you could literally take all of your content and download it and then be able to print it.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, wow.

Les Herger: And it came out looking pretty decent. So I actually, because I was doing this bookbinding thing, I took the entire blog and printed it and bound it into a Coptic-style book.

Brad Dowdy: Well, that's kind of impressive for like 15 years ago technology.

Les Herger: Yeah. I mean, it came out sort of like a Word document.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Les Herger: Yeah. And so, you know, I just, I had to do some fidgeting around, fiddling around with making it look right because I had to print it off in signatures. And that was a bit of a pain in the butt. Although I think there was an early either WordPerfect or maybe even like Microsoft did it pretty seamlessly. It would print it off in signatures for you. Now nothing does that. Not easily. You have to get like a special layout program for it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. Like I don't have, I, every now and then I get a little voice in my head that says, you should do something like in a printed format, you know, take it, like preserve some of, you know, like say some posts or some articles I've written and get these things printed out. Then I just start poking around and I'm like, nope, that seems like a severe pain. I'm like not even going to go down that path.

Les Herger: But that's definitely one of the things that I used to do. Like I used to do zines. Yeah. Not to the level of Plumbago. Like I so admire Andy's effort in Plumbago because they come out so gorgeous.

Brad Dowdy: It's crazy good.

Les Herger: But like I did that back in the 90s when I was in college. We, you know, poetry chat book things. But, and then we tried doing it in one of those early layout programs. Oh, I would never do that again.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Like I don't even want to touch that with the modern technology. I can't even imagine how it was back then.

Les Herger: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: You can forget that. Well, I want to keep going down this blogging path because you've been doing it for so long and I have lots of questions. But first, let me jump into our first sponsor this week, if you don't mind. Not at all. Harry's. They are one of our favorite sponsors of all time here on The Pen Addict. And this episode of The Pen Addict is brought to you by Harry's. Harry's founders decided to create Harry's because they were fed up with overpriced razors full of unnecessary features. They knew a great shave comes down to great blades made with sharp, durable steel that lasts. And they cut out the unnecessary costs, allowing them to deliver you one perfect razor at an amazing price. By selling directly over the internet, Harry's can offer their blades at a price much lower than the leading brand. You just pay $2 per blade compared to $4 or more. Harry's bought a factory that's been making some of the highest quality blades in the world for over 95 years. And they even offer a 100% quality guarantee. If you don't love your shave, let Harry's know within 30 days and they'll give you a refund. So this is the part of the ad read, Les, where Myke usually prompts me for my personal stories about using Harry's products. And I actually have a confession to make to you and to our listeners this week. I lied to them last time Harry's was a sponsor. So two weeks ago, we were online reading the ad and someone had sent me the link to their Pride set that they did for June for Pride Month. Um, and they, um, I started on while we were on the show, I went in there and I said, this set is awesome. I'm going to order it right here live on the show. And I'm sitting here going through this whole process in the middle of the show. And then I see this thing where they have this cool special gift to add for $5. I'm like, sweet, I've got this ordered. So that was my little story for last time we did the Harry's ad.

Brad Dowdy: And then I never hit submit, which I didn't realize until my razors didn't show up. My wife was like looking for razor blades and she's like, where are the blades? Because she knows I, I always order them. And I was like, oh yeah, they never came. Let me go find, let me go find my order. There was no order. I never submitted it. So once I realized that, I think like Monday this week, I finally got my order in and you know, it's a good thing because one of our, um, listeners, uh, Jackie, she ordered the pride set and I didn't realize you could get your initials on the handle. So I added that as my penance for, uh, for getting to order it the first time I paid my, paid more to get my initials on my razor handle. So, so I apologize listeners. I lied to you last time because I couldn't follow through on clicking all the right buttons while we were podcasting.

Les Herger: So, well, I will, I will admit that I have used your, uh, sponsorship in the past and I've ordered, I have a, a matte green Harry's razor. Um, and I use it regularly on my legs. So awesome. That works fabulous.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. They're like all we use at the house and like, they're, they're like legitimately good. And I'm, I'm proud that they're a sponsor. I love sponsoring good people who do good things and Harry's does a great job. So check out Harry's, harrys.com. Use the code pin addict to get $5 off any save shed from save set. Wow. I almost messed that one really up from Harry's, uh, with the code pin addict. Join the millions of people who've already switched and go to harrys.com today and, uh, make sure to use that code pin addict, check out and, uh, claim your offer. Thanks so much to Harry's for their support of this show and relay FM. So, yeah, I am, uh, you know, not just a Harry's user. I'm also a liar, but I, I correct that. I correct those things. I never lie on purpose. It was accidental. So now next time I have to explain what I actually got in this mystery package thing they're doing. So, all right, back to blogging. Um, how have you done it for so long and not gone insane?

Writing Passion

Les Herger: Well, first off, like I, I have this deep love of writing. Um, I've been writing in some form or another since I was a preteen. Uh, I got my first journal from my grandmother actually when I was 10 and I have kept a journal ever since then. So I just, I really enjoy writing. Um, and the other thing is I've, if anyone who's followed the blog for any period of time will know that it has changed and grown with me over time. Um, like I don't feel that I have to stick to the same hot style of review. I mean, my reviews are always nerdy. There's always that aspect of, I probably go a little bit too much in depth on my reviews, but at the same time, that's the only thing that I can do. You know, that's my, that's my style of review. And I, I allow the blog to go with my interests.

Brad Dowdy: So it, it's changed over the years because as I was putting together these show notes, one of the topics that I didn't even get to put in here and you keep mentioning it, but so I want to be sure to bring it up is your writing. Like I want to do a whole section about NaNoWriMo. So I'm going to interject in my own show notes here because that's one of the most impressive things I see people do on the internet is NaNoWriMo. And you don't just do the, the big, I guess their biggest events in November. They have events all throughout the year.

Les Herger: Yep.

Brad Dowdy: You're in Camp NaNoWriMo now. Is that going on right now?

Les Herger: Yeah, it's almost over and I'm losing horribly this year. Thanks for bringing it up.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, that's not your style. Yes. Yeah. I thought I brought it up because that's the safe zone. You nailed those things.

Les Herger: I'm joking.

Les Herger: Yeah. This, so part of this goes into the fact that I got a new boss in February. So my day job is hugely in flux right now. Everything's changing. Like the paperwork we're doing is changing. The reporting that we're doing is changing. Like I'm calling insurance companies for review and auditing and I didn't do that before. So because of that, I don't have the same structure that I had when I was, I was slam dunking on NaNoWriMo a year and two years ago. And this year, like, first off, like I got hired part-time, well, part-time with benefits and whatnot. So I'm working 25 hours in the partial hospital. And because of that, I don't have the same flexibility. Um, and it's so, like, sometimes I'm working extra hours. Sometimes I'm picking up, like, a lot of extra hours at the hospital. So because of that, I just, like, I don't have a set time to write for NaNoWriMo. So I'm losing.

Brad Dowdy: Well, you're definitely not losing. Just being involved in that is, is seriously, I'm not even being hyperbolic when I say that. That's one of the most impressive things I see you do and a lot of people do is commit to putting those words down on paper. Even if you don't hit the goal, it's just, I guess I look at it, it's something like, I, my brain doesn't work in the way that I can put that down. So people that can get those words out of their head onto a page in a coherent manner is always something very impressive. So I just wanted to say that, and, um, like you said about the slam dunking, that's what I was going to joke about is like, I'd be watching you in November and you put your word goals and then all of a sudden you'd be like, boom, 50,000 words, 12 days less. Suck it, NaNoWriMo.

Brad Dowdy: And I was like, man, how do you even do that? But, uh, you will have to, I'll put a link in the show notes. You also talked to our friend Harry Marks recently about writing novels by hand. Um, so I'll be sure to link that in the show notes. Um, also in the show notes, I want to talk about RSVP. And before we get to the episode that I want to talk about, tell me how that came about in like your long line of blogging. You know, how did you decide to start a podcast with your friends?

Les Herger: I had been wanting to start a female led podcast for a while and I, I dabbled in podcasting. I did a coffee podcast, um, and I did maybe five episodes and I'm, I don't, I'm a little neurotic and I'm really hard on myself in turn. Like when I write, I can go back and edit and re-edit and, and, you know, sometimes it's, you know, done is better than perfect. But when it came to editing audio, because I was also learning it, I kept going back and editing and editing and editing. And I just had to let the podcast go. And then I did a April Fool's hosting gig for Erasable with Lenore and Dee and we just clicked.

Brad Dowdy: Nice.

Les Herger: Like Dee and I had already met in person at that point, um, because she also lives in Massachusetts and we're like, Hey, let's just get together. We can trade some, some pencils and ink and whatnot and paper and get some coffee and hang out in Salem. So we did. And, um, we get along really well in person and on, you know, on, on air. And then we did the Erasables thing. And then we were like, afterwards, we're like, man, that was, that was really cool. Maybe we should do that again. And we went back and forth, I think for another month. And finally we were like, yeah, we're going to do this. We're just going to, we're going to do nerdy discussions about stationary and a little bit of feminism and queer theory and see what happens.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Stationary and more. I like the, I like the tagline.

Les Herger: Well, we can't stay on topic. That's one of the really, that's your excuse. We really can't. Well, like when D and I were like, we know we're going to get tangential. We just like when D and I get together, our conversations go from one thing to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing. And after, you know, 15 minutes, we're like, what were we talking about? Yeah, exactly. And we do the same thing with RSVP. It's just, we're constantly like, well, let's go back to the document. What were we talking about again?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So to tie that in together with what I wanted to mention about the blog and the podcast, you had Michael Hagen from Leadfast.org on, it was episode number 30. And I couldn't get to this episode like right when it dropped, but I always save my episodes. Like I always check the show notes and I saw that you're all talking about like blogging and burnout because I noticed that Michael specifically hadn't been posted much in a while. So I was like, I totally want to hear this because that's an issue that crops up from time to time with myself, anyone who does anything online. You know, these are the issues that crop up. And I thought that was a really good episode. So can you talk about yourself and how you've, you know, been able to keep, you know, plugging away at the blog for all these years and kind of avoid the burnout? Or, you know, maybe you have burned out and you're able to bounce back. You know, that's kind of been my experience. So tell me a little bit about what y'all talked about in that show and how it relates to you.

Les Herger: Well, so I won't speak for everyone else, but for me in particular, I allow myself to take breaks. Like earlier this year, when I first got my new boss, I allowed myself to take two months and I don't feel guilty about that. Um, I, well, no, I should, I shouldn't lie. I feel a little guilty about not, not continuing to write. And it's, but for me, it's more the fact that I'm not writing than it is the blogging, if that makes sense.

Brad Dowdy: Sure.

Les Herger: Because I think part of, and we talk about this all the time in therapy circles, um, self-care is so important. And for me, self-care is writing. And that is part of the way I take care of myself so I can continue to do the work that I do outside of the blog. The blog is a place for me to regroup. And it's, it's very soothing for me. Usually like I don't put pressure to provide content, if that makes sense.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Les Herger: Um, and you know, I, I think from now on what I'm going to do going forward is give myself recesses. Like probably, you know, January and February tends to be a time where I don't write as much. Um, so I'm probably going to build that in for the rest of my blogging career and just say, I'm going to take January and February off. Um, because I think it's important to take time off even from hobbies.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that's a super smart way to look at it and go ahead and build that in upfront and give yourself permission to, Hey, chill, chill out for a minute. You know, this is not, you know, the most important, uh, iron in the fire. And, you know, if it, if it is, and you're avoiding doing other things, you know, maybe it's something you need to, to reprioritize because there's always, this is, this question really comes up a lot to me. It's like, how do you get started? And then how do you, how do you, you know, take a break? Like, like, I don't, I can't come up with any ideas or I'm tired or I'm too busy. I was like, you don't owe anybody anything, right? You know, you got to do what's best for you. What's best for your mental health. What's best for your schedule. And like, I, I always put fun and fun, you know, foremost in anything. And if I'm not having fun doing it, you could, I mean, it's going to show in the work. So just, you got to take those breaks and just forget about it for a little while. I've always come back recharged when I've taken a break in the past. Like I've taken, um, a two or three month break. It's been a few years since I've taken a long break, but, uh, two or three years ago, I stopped everything completely, including the podcast. And, you know, it was just, you know, it was before I was doing it for a living, you know, I was just like, this is it. Like, I can't function. I'm not the best husband I can be. I'm not the best person I can be. And sometimes you just got to step away for it. And then you come back and, you know, it feels magical again. And that's like, this is fun, right? This is supposed to be fun. It's not supposed to be a chore. So I thought y'all's conversation was really good around these types of things. And, you know, listening to you and Dee and Michael all have different reasons for, you know, needing to take a break and then, but why you want to come back and keep doing these things and how it works into your lives. I thought it was a really good perspective that all three of y'all had on that show.

Les Herger: Thank you.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, absolutely. And, um, continuing on that path a little bit, you and I, and I can't even remember who I, it took me like 30 minutes to find this thread, but I knew ever since I invited you on the show, I, that I wanted to revisit a thread we had on Twitter about communities, like specifically the pen community and how we can communicate on the internet the best way possible. So like outside of our individual blogs as a group, is there a place where we can all go and everyone be happy to like share information, talk to like-minded individuals? Um, and I, I don't want to spoil the answer, but the, the answer was no, we can't, we can't find that one place because the internet's so large, so much larger now than when you and I started doing these things and there's more places for people to hang out. And I think the impetus of this question was, I want to go find information from people with experience, you know, and be able to come up with that information when I want it. So the initial answer to those questions is always forums, you know, and you and I immediately were like, heck no. Like we, I, like people have wanted me to make a forum for years and I just flat out refused for my sanity, just for the management overhead of a forum. Um, but I understand that the good a forum provides is Google search. You can find some things that come up in Google search. So why don't you talk a little bit about what you think about like community sharing as a whole, the different groups we're part of, um, your Facebook group for RSVP and I'll talk about like my Slack group and how neither one of those are the solutions for what the question was.

Les Herger: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, so going back to back in 2009, I started a Ning forum for art journaling. Uh, while similar to pens and stationary, there's a, there was a big stationary component to it, but it was mostly art and I just closed it because it's forums are, to me are dead. There, there, there's not enough activity in it anymore for, to, to do another one. You know what I mean? Like they're just, they're dead, dead to me.

Social Media Platforms

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I pretty much agree.

Les Herger: And then Facebook, the only reason I'm still on Facebook is for the erasable group and RSVP.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm.

Les Herger: I just, uh, yeah, I, I, I really wish Facebook hadn't closed their groups app.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Cause group, I mean, as someone who's not on Facebook now, and I did have a pin added group, that's the only kind of redeeming value. I saw it in Facebook, their group features were really good. Like they, one of the things that come came up in our, in our conversation was those were at least searchable, right? You could find stuff that people talked about. If you were in the group, they weren't externally searchable. You know, they were closed off from the general internet, just like Slack and some other things. But if you were part of the group, you could maybe find an answer from something. So what do you, what do you like so much about the Facebook groups?

Les Herger: Well, I, I think that they're very interactive. A lot of people are, are, are there, they're easy. They're very easy to administrate. Um, like for RSVP, um, D Lenore and I have a secret group where we talk about issues that go on in the group. Not that we have many, right. But you know, we, we have the secret group. We discuss things. We have rules. Like if anyone curses anyone out, anyone swears at one another done, that's it. Right. Um, and then it's very easy to do that. You search the person's name, ban. Boom, gone. Content out. Right. Um, so I like that about Facebook groups that said, if I could separate the Facebook group from Facebook itself.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Les Herger: Um, that is what I would do. Yeah. Um, because I just, I don't like Facebook.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I mean, I, I agree with you pretty much across the board at night. I felt a little bad ending the, the pen addict group that was on there. Cause it was really good. There was no reason for it to go away, but I stopped having a compelling reason to go on Facebook for other reasons. Like I want the groups, like it's cool to be part of the RSVP and erasable group. That's where they are. I'd like to be a part of them, but it started being a chore. The pen addict slack group, while I think it's really cool and it has some really good positives. It has a huge list of negatives to one of which is the just ephemeral nature of it. I mean, you post in there and you go to lunch and you come back and you can't find where you just left off. Yep. Like it's really good for like instant answers because there's usually a lot of people in there at any given time and you can throw a question up and you'll probably get an answer. If you wanted to search for anything or find any information in there, good luck. Like, you know, it's, it's good for that. Good for just like, you know, water cooler chat, you know, about pens and inks and paper and whatever, that's it. Like there's no, you know, there's no keeping of the, of the dialogue at all. So, I mean, some would say that's a feature, but it also benefits other people to be able to come in and find content when they're new or have a question, you know, helps other people find things easier, which Slack does not allow for.

Les Herger: I think Slack is great for small groups. Like I, I'm a member of the pen addict Slack, but I haven't been on there for, I don't know how long because it's just, it's Slack. The pen addict Slack is not useful to me, but.

Brad Dowdy: Hey, I've run the pen addict Slack and I'm on there as little as anybody. If that tells you anything.

Les Herger: Yeah, it does. I'm a member of a writer's Slack. It's called the Les Fick Slack. Um, and there are only 200 people there and there are maybe two dozen that are really active. Um, and I think that makes it more useful because stuff doesn't disappear quite as quickly. But at the same time, there was a discussion about, so someone was writing a therapist character and they're writing romance. So they, they had some questions and I was like, okay, so I'm going to answer this. And I wrote this very long lengthy response and I realized as I hit enter, I was like, if I put that onto a blog post or into a forum, it, that would be information that someone could get immediately. You know, they would search, Oh, a therapist character. Here's my question. And that would pop up for them in Slack. Even if they search, once they've hit the 10,000 message limit, it's gone. So I also cross posted it to Twitter. If anyone's writing a therapist character, I'm also happy to beta read for you. But, but, you know, so to me, like part of the usefulness of forums and also Facebook groups is that you can go back and you can search that information and find it later.

Brad Dowdy: Yep.

Les Herger: Um, you know, once, once the, that Slack hits 10,000, it's gone.

Brad Dowdy: It's gone. Yeah. And, you know, uh, my friend tiny badge asked us that question and I'm sorry to say a couple months on, we still don't have a great answer for you. And I don't, I don't know that we will like in the end, like I, I pose that like Twitter's kind of my favorite, you know, social media place to talk to pin people because it's at least viewable and accessible, although not really easily searchable, but like anyone can pop in and, you know, ask a question. It's a little bit in Slack that the conversation moves on and sometimes the conversation is hard to follow because other things get interspersed in there.

Les Herger: Right.

Brad Dowdy: Um, but it's kind of the easiest, it's definitely the easiest to one-on-one communicate, at least for me. But as far as like group and retention communication, which is what, you know, tiny badgers hoping for Twitter's not the answer either. Yeah. Um, y'all talked about on the podcast, how Instagram's probably your favorite social media. Would you, would you say that's the, is that the case for you?

Les Herger: Yeah, absolutely. Like I love, I'm a visual person being able to share a quick image and then a blurb about it is I'm really drawn to that. And I think that's how my, you know, my first blog was, it was picture and then a post. Mm-hmm. And unfortunately, Instagram doesn't have a group function, you know, like there's no forum there. It's searchable. Yeah. Sort of.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Les Herger: Their search feature is really horrible.

Brad Dowdy: It is. I like that they added that you can follow a hashtag now. I actually do that. That's a, that was a pretty decent feature just in the past few months.

Les Herger: Yeah. We just, we recorded our, our most recent, uh, RSVP episode. So it'll go up Wednesday. Okay. And that is like my new favorite thing.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, nice.

Les Herger: So yeah, I am just following all of the stationary hashtags. And like, I have this thing where I keep my Instagram follows to 666.

Brad Dowdy: I was going to say something because I saw it dropped like 662 the other day when I was putting together this, uh, putting together this, uh, this note, these notes.

Les Herger: Yeah. I, I, um, I unfollowed a bunch of celebrities so that I can, so that I could go and follow more stationary stuff.

Brad Dowdy: Well, cause you can discover stuff with this hashtag thing. I followed a huge amount of people from once I started following the hashtags, I was like, Oh, your feed looks amazing. So I'm going to follow you. Yeah. So, you know, we don't have an answer. It was, it was what it boils down to, but it's such a good question. Just like the burnout questions. These are tough questions that we would love to have like the perfect answer for. Um, I do just know that forums is not the right answer for what I want to see in a, in a, like a community centered, you know, repository, if you will. But I don't have a, I don't know what is, you know, I don't have that solved either. So, well, we're going to talk about two of your favorite topics to write about that's pencils and composition notebooks. And we're going to, we're going to get into the weeds a little bit, but first let me talk about a new sponsor. This is the first time that Eero has sponsored the pen addict with Eero. You'll never need to worry about your wifi, not being fast enough to stream movies or download files because Eero have created the wifi setup of dreams, a fast, reliable connection throughout your entire house. The second generation Eero includes a third five gigahertz radio, making it twice as fast as before. Whatever your wifi needs, Eero will blanket your entire home and flat, fast, reliable wifi. It sits on any flat surface. Just plug it into the wall with the included power adapter and you're ready to connect your Eero either with the ethernet or wirelessly. And the included thread radio means you can connect to low power devices like locks, doorbells, and more. They also have the tiny Eero beacon. All you need to do is plug it into a wall and expand coverage to any room so you don't have to move to a different part of the house to get the internet speed you want. And it even includes a built-in LED nightlight with ambient light sensor. The Eero app lets you control the network from your phone and it's no hassle to create and share a guest network too. Plus their customer support is phenomenal. You can call and get hold of a wifi expert in just 30 seconds. So they're a new sponsor and we, Myke and I, usually get to try out these things. And I have an Eero on the way. It hasn't arrived yet. But let me tell you something, Eero. I'm going to be your perfect case study for improving the wifi across a household because right now my sketchy country internet could use a boost. So getting it from the living room to the bedroom, it's game on Eero. We're going to see how this works. So I'll let you know how this all plays out in the future once I get my Eero system installed and connected. So you too can get your own Eero system, including one second generation Eero and two beacons for just $399. This is everything you need to get started. And you don't have to wait weeks to get hold of your new dream wifi setup. Listeners of this show can get free overnight shipping to the US or Canada when you head to Eero.com and use the promo code PENADDIC. So you get the second generation Eero and you get the two extenders, which is what I really need to blast out that coverage throughout the household for $399. And that's everything you need for this new wireless system in your house. So go to Eero.com, E-E-R-O.com with the promo code PENADDICT for free shipping. Thanks to Eero for supporting the PENADDICT. So would you find it weird if I told you I keep the pencils and notebooks you sent me in their own separate location and they cannot mingle with the other pencils for fear of losing them and breaking up the less collection that I've set aside for singular purposes?

Les Herger: No.

Brad Dowdy: I do. I keep, so you sent, you were kind enough to send me a care package of pencils and you wrote me long note and a description of all these pencils and I keep them all together. Like I use them. If I want to use one of these pencils, I'll go pick it out of its specific location and then always return it to that because I want all these pencils to live together. Or I'm just weird that way because I want to, if I haven't used one of them, like I haven't used all of them yet, like regularly, like I've tested them all, but I wanted to be able to go back to the note that you sent me to give me like kind of the things you said about the pencils. So the purpose of this was to show me that there's some really good pencils out there that you can get for really, really cheap. And that's one of the huge selling points about pencils, at least from my perspective. So what is it about pencils for you that you find so enjoyable?

Les Herger: It's just that they're cheap. I mean, even if you go and buy vintage pencils, you can, for 20 bucks on eBay, you can get a phenomenal selection of antique pencils.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And there's something about writing with a pencil that I didn't realize until a few years ago. Just, you know, the reason why we do the things we do with stationary is because it allows us to escape from our, you know, day to day. It allows us to escape from our keyboards and monitors. And there's something about holding a wooden pencil that I didn't realize fit in with everything else that I like to write with. You know, it brings you to a place of peace and calmness. And I don't want to like fakely romanticize any of this, but that's how I feel when I use these products. That's why, that's why I write the things that I do because I love these things. And pencils, wooden pencils are different. They just are. I don't know how to put that in words. But there's...

Les Herger: Well, they're very tactile. Yeah. I guess that's it. Yeah. There's a feel to them that's different.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And like, just between like in the grouping of pencils that you gave me, I will, you know, since I've already done my Harry's confession, I will make one confession. My son stole the banana pencil. That's the first pencil in my household that I've seen in the past year that's made it all the way down to a nub. That's how much he loved that pencil. Nice. He would not let that out of his eyesight. He would not let his sister use it. He would make sure he had it in his backpack from school every day. Then he came to me and showed it to me. He goes, look, it's gone. I'm like, wow.

Les Herger: That's awesome.

Brad Dowdy: It is. So that was awesome. So that's not part of the collection anymore, but it went to a good cost. That's what you're supposed to do. You can get through one of those pencils for like a quarter, have an amazing experience, and you can pick up another one of these. So I'm going to hold part of this because I'm going to ask you about your favorites. But aside from your favorites, let's say what pencils are you using now that you really enjoy? And then we're going to take an ask last question about your favorites, and we're going to build a set of pencils for you. All right.

Pencil Preferences

Les Herger: I am. What am I using the most? You know what? I just picked up a six pack of the Midori MD Paper Products B grade. Oh, man, that pencil. I keep reaching for it, and I am really just, it's so smooth.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Les Herger: So I keep reaching for that, and what else am I reaching for all the time? You know what? I keep going for the new Blackwing Volumes 1001, the five-sided.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Les Herger: And I think it's a 602 core, which I don't usually like that much.

Brad Dowdy: Do you like the softer or the harder?

Les Herger: I like the Pearl. Okay. And I also like the extra firm, so.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. So both, but just not the 602.

Les Herger: Yeah, I don't, because.

Brad Dowdy: In relation to the other two.

Les Herger: Yeah. My first experience with the 602 was that it was a little gritty feeling to me. And if I'm paying that much for a pencil, I want silky smooth.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Les Herger: But, yeah, that five-sided pencil is really cool. I'm digging that a lot. So I'm going for that a lot.

Brad Dowdy: Nice.

Les Herger: But those are the two that I'm really going for over and over and over and over again lately.

Brad Dowdy: Cool, cool. Yeah, so I still use the pencil I asked you about the most when you sent them to me was the orange and cream, the creamsicle-looking Dixon Ticonderoga. That's been kind of my favorite out of this batch. But as I was getting ready to talk to you, I broke out the whole batch again. The general cedar point shocked me how much I liked it. But, like, I didn't even consider it. I was like, you know, I like the natural color. I was like, the ferrule is kind of weird. I don't care for the black eraser. Then I wrote with it. People who don't use pencils think they're probably all the same. You can tell. Like, I could, even not having a lot of experience with, like, probably, what, I have, like, eight pencils left that you sent me that my son didn't steal. So, I could probably tell the difference in probably five or six of them just by writing with them. There are differences in all these lead grades. So, you know, if you haven't picked up a woodcase pencil recently, I implore you to try a few. And that's the thing, right, is you can get a bunch of pencils, like you said, on eBay or go to CW Pencils or go to JetPens or anywhere. And you can get 10 pencils for, you know, 10 or 12 bucks. And that's even probably on the expensive end. And, like, one of the pencils that shocked me the most besides that journals was you got me one from Target. It's like this wooden, like, dipped end. I won't, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know you can't remember all the ones you sent me because this was, like, a year ago. But that pencil writes really well. And I think you said they were, like, six for a buck or something like that. That was a shockingly good pencil.

Les Herger: Those are from the dollar spot.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so that's, like, that first kind of bay usually when you walk in, right, where kind of sometimes all the deals are.

Les Herger: Yeah, it looks like garbage at my Target. It's, like, where all the stuff goes to die. It's always bombed.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, exactly.

Les Herger: Customers have just, like, ransacked it.

Brad Dowdy: I couldn't believe it when I figured out. It took me a while because it's not really marked with what, you know, it's not stamped with what it is. I was like, I can go back and read this note because this is a really good pencil. And I was shocked. So, yeah, if you haven't tried wooden pencils, that's going to be your next addiction because there is a difference between pencils. You can find some that meet your writing needs, whether it's darkness, you know, softness, firmness, point retention, eraser, whatever, aesthetic. There's a pencil out there for you. So did you ever find any composition books in the dollar spot at Target? Because we're going to get into the weeds about pencils. I want to get in the weeds about composition notebooks more importantly. So you're the biggest composition notebook fan on the Internet, according to my metrics, which is something I greatly appreciate. I have a soft spot for composition notebooks because, number one, I didn't know there were that many of them.

Brad Dowdy: Let's start there. How did you find so many composition books?

Les Herger: Well, it's a combination of like I know that every store has their own brand and just going in. And because I do this roundup every year where I go and I just buy a composition book everywhere and then test it out with fountain pens and pencils and see how it works. And then also now people in the RSVP group will send me like notifications. Hey, Target has a composition notebooks out. They look like this and this and this. Or have you been to CVS yet? They have this brand. Have you been to Walgreens? Have you checked out Rite Aid? So I'll get all of these messages letting me know that there are composition books places and I'll go and I'll pick up one. And usually they're, again, for $20, I can pick up like 30 composition notebooks. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: What is it about the composition notebooks that makes it special for you?

Les Herger: It's a perfect combination of nostalgia and cheap.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Les Herger: You know, you can pick up something that, you know, I mean, for me, when I was a kid, I hated them because they were cheap. And everyone knew they were cheap. And, like, that was a big thing for me because I was a really poor kid. I grew up in a really poor area, but I was also really poor. And you didn't want people to know that you were poor. So I didn't like composition notebooks because they were $0.10.

Brad Dowdy: Yep.

Les Herger: Back then, back in the old days.

Les Herger: And, you know, I wanted the Mead Five Stars. Right. Because those were the fancy notebooks.

Brad Dowdy: But now... Some of those even had plastic covers, if I remember correctly.

Les Herger: Oh, yeah. The poly covers. Yeah. Well, you can get poly-covered comp books, too. Nice. But, yeah, like, for now, it's, like, really nostalgic for me. That's, like, composition notebooks are school, cheap writing, and, you know, I just love them. I don't know.

Composition Book Nostalgia

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I'm with you. It's the same kind of description that you can and can't give to the pencil, right? Right. You just know it when you feel it. Like, it brings back these memories. They were, like, thick and durable. And they had these tape sides, tape binding or tape over the binding, this look that was noticeable. And, like, you know, I've always been into music and art. And you'd see all your favorite, you know, musicians, like, in the old magazine days on the magazine racks. You'd just see all the torn-up composition books. That was their lyric notebooks and the artist notebooks. And there was, like, this, you know, awesome style to them. And, you know, they were cheap and accessible and everywhere from, you know, the grocery store to the convenience store. And you could just, like you said, you could grab a bunch of them. And they were, you know, three for a dollar or whatever like that. And I don't know. It's something about – and that size was always right. Like, when you had to get your standard one-subject or three-subject or five-subject notebooks, those all look the same with the wire binding and the lines. I remember the first time I found a graph paper composition book. I think I bought, like, ten of them because I didn't think I was ever going to see it again. You know, it's just like –

Les Herger: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I don't know. I just have this huge fascination with composition books. So, what are your – and you're not joking when you say, like, you found them all. You probably have, like, 20 or 30 composition notebooks reviewed. It's kind of crazy. So, do you have some favorites or some finds out of there if people were looking for those composition books? We're getting into back-to-school time now.

Les Herger: Yeah, yeah. Well, I actually just picked up my first couple of composition notebooks for my yearly roundup. But my favorites are from a brand called Studio C. It's a little weird lifestyles brand. They change up their covers every year. So, they have different patterns, different things on their covers. And they're sold in CVS and Walgreens, Rite Aid. Specifically during back-to-school, they're carried year-round in Walgreens.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

Les Herger: And back-to-school, they're around a dollar a book. And during the rest of the year in Walmart, they're three bucks a book. But what's really fabulous about them and what makes them worth the $3 per book is that the paper is silky smooth with every fountain pen I tried on it. What? Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: That's not a thing.

Les Herger: Yeah, it is. So, silky smooth. My pens skate over it. And if you're into sheening and glittery inks, which we're going to talk about in a few minutes, you get incredible sheen. Really? With no bleed-through and no soak-through.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Studio C, it's on.

Les Herger: Yep. And they come with – this is the other thing. When I get a comp book, I want it to have a nice, thick cover, have a solid stitching, and a taped spine.

Brad Dowdy: Right. It has to. That's mandatory.

Les Herger: Yeah. Studio C nails it. They have the thickest chipboard covers. You can actually hold them in hand and write in them.

Brad Dowdy: Hmm. Yeah. So, that's awesome. Yeah. That's the other thing that we talked about comp books is there's rules, right? You can't call it a composition book unless it meets these rules. Right. Like, I remember the Kickstarter from a couple years ago where that designer created the comp book. Beautiful notebook. Yeah. Absolutely beautiful notebook. And it's not a composition book.

Les Herger: No. That's, like, all I ever said about it.

Brad Dowdy: Like, it's like, hey, buy this notebook. Love this notebook. It's a beautiful, stunning, great-looking notebook. It's 100% not a composition book. No. Don't do it.

Les Herger: It's got to have one thick signature. That's it.

Brad Dowdy: That's it. Yeah. Notebooks don't have rules. Composition books have rules.

Les Herger: Yep. That's true.

Brad Dowdy: Which is why I don't know that I can ever make one at Nock because I want that thick chipboard cover. I want the single signature and the tape spine. Yeah. And I think by the time I make that, it's probably going to cost me, like, $5 or $7.

Les Herger: At least. At least.

Brad Dowdy: So, like, I'm selling it for, like, $12 to $15. And there's just, like, that kind of defeats the, you know, the idea of what a comp book is made to be. They're supposed to be utilitarian and useful. Like, I don't mind selling a notebook at that price. I mind selling a composition notebook at that price.

Les Herger: Right. Right.

Brad Dowdy: So, it's such an interesting format to me and still hugely, you know, loved by, like, all the users, you know, who have grown up with these things. And, you know, it's, you know, I want to see, I don't know. I don't want to see change in them, but I want to see them become more popular. And I'm like, I always think, like, how can we make comp books more popular? But I think you're doing a pretty good job, you know, by rounding all these up and tell us which ones are these good ones. So, I need to get some more to, like, carry around with me. And I'm going to start by hunting down the Studio C because I should be able to get them at, you know, CVS and Walgreens right now. You know, right down the street.

Les Herger: The other clear winner in my roundup last year, I haven't checked this year yet, but last year's Target version of the Mead composition notebooks with a chipboard cover that were, they have 70 pages. Those also were, they didn't have the silky smooth paper, but it was nice paper with a decent amount of tooth. You got sheen, no soak through, no bleed through. So, and glittery inks were definitely glittery on them. And it felt pretty good, but Studio C was better because it was like your pens just skated over it.

Mechanical Pencils Topic

Brad Dowdy: That's awesome. All right. I'm definitely going to give that a shot. All right. So, let's get into the Ask Less portion of the show. I always like to get some questions specifically for our guests. And, you know, the first one, I actually wonder if you can help me out with how much of a mechanical pencil fan are you?

Les Herger: I'm not a huge mechanical pencil fan, but I do have my share of them like any artist or, you know, I've been using them since high school. Right. But not huge, but I know enough that I feel I can help you out with this question.

Brad Dowdy: All right. So, Sandra wants to know, what do you recommend as a good mechanical pencil under $80? I don't know what it's called, but I like pencils that have a metal sleeve around the lid and that it retracts back into the pencil. Also, I prefer a metal body or plastic one. So, I'm going to say real quick and before I let you answer this is I think she's saying $80 because that's what that rotating retractable mechanical pencil is. We're going to scratch that one off the list from the jump. Like, let's not even put that in there. That's like a silly like amount to spend on a mechanical pencil and it's got this weird stylus tip on the front. Like, it's kind of crazy. Like, you can do so much better for a fraction of the price. So, do you have any that you like in that price like that fits her needs but is also not the Rotring 800? Yeah.

Les Herger: Well, I'm going to get a little nerdy with you. So, there are two types of retractable pipe style mechanical pencils. The type that slides as you write like the Kuru Toga pipe slide. I've never tried one of those because that just doesn't interest. I don't know. I feel sketchy about that. They're weird. But a lot of people really like them.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. They're weird. I'm on the it works but it's weird. That's kind of what I say about those. It's like, it's cool but I'm a little bit uncomfortable with it. So, go ahead.

Les Herger: Yeah. So, then the other style is like the Rotring 800 or the TWSBI Precision.

Brad Dowdy: Yes.

Les Herger: And I'm going to recommend the TWSBI Precision depending on how important it is to them that it squirts out the same amount of lead each time.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

Les Herger: Like I use a TWSBI Precision like the original style as part of my everyday carry. One, I use a retractable pipe, the original black mat as part of my everyday carry. It sits on my work planner. It's clipped to the outside of it with a rubber band around the whole thing and it gets thrown into my bag. It gets thrown on a desk. I've had a client, they didn't toss it across the room but they definitely knocked it off my desk. And that thing, I've been using it now for a little over two years. It just keeps working but it does have the first click, it squirts out a millimeter and a half of lead. Then the next click, half a millimeter. Then a click out, the next click is one millimeter. And it usually goes between half a millimeter and one millimeter each time. Okay. That doesn't cause any problems for me. But I gave you a link to Matthias of, I'm going to screw up the name of his blog, Blystief.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Les Herger: I think is the name of his blog. He's an OG pencil blogger as well. He wrote an excellent review of their fountain pen and the pencil. I just, I really like the TWSBI Precision.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I think that's kind of the perfect answer. You know, if the Rotring 600 is a pencil, you know, I love and talk about all the time. But it doesn't have that retractable pipe. The precision is kind of like what you were saying about its indestructibility. We have one at Knock on our shipping desk that we've probably had there for a couple of years. And it just takes a beating and just keeps working. And it looks cool. It feels good. It's got the full metal barrel. It's got the pipe protection. The only other, the one I like personally to use is the Uni Shift Pipe Lock. But that has a half plastic barrel, right? So it's only got the metal grip section. And then the upper barrel is plastic. So they may not, that may not fit. But that's one where you just kind of like pull it down over the sleeve and tighten it up. And it kind of protects itself. But the precision fits what Sandra's looking for better, I think. So that's a really good call. And it's $25. Exactly. And that's about what these good quality mechanical pencils, that's kind of the price range you're looking at. I think you can get like the ultimate pencil like in that price range. I think the Rotaring 800 is probably not worth it in the end as it relates to something like the Twisby precision.

Les Herger: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I agree. So the next question was stealthily entered into the show document.

Brad Dowdy: So I'm going to read it like this. So to reverse this a bit, Mary Elizabeth from the RSVP group wants to know why are you, being me, such a weenie about shimmer inks? So Mary Elizabeth, let me just tell you something. You're 100% right. I'm a total weenie when it comes to shimmer inks. And I don't know why. I think it's because I like those extra fine nibs. And I'm concerned about the glimmer or glitter or sheen or sparkles or whatever's in there in those inks clogging up my fine nibs. But I've seen the light. I'm coming around. It's slow. But I just did a Twitch kind of mini review of the new Jairbon, the Coraline DG, the orange and with the silver sparkles. And I really liked writing with it. So that ink might make me a convert. I used it in a wide nib, like a TWSBI. I used it in a TWSBI Eco 1.1 stub nib. It wrote beautifully. It had excellent particle spread. It was even. There wasn't two lines of writing orange ink and then two lines of heavy sparkle. It was dispersed properly. And I left it in my pen barrel for about three weeks. And it cleaned out like a champ. So I'm coming around, Mary Elizabeth. Y'all are going to make me a shimmer ink lover after all. So I'm getting into it. So, you know, I'll try and, you know, maybe that'll be my goal for 2019 is not to be such a weenie about shimmer inks because Mary Elizabeth's right.

Brad Dowdy: All right. The inky, wow. The inky side says, Brad, you obviously made your pencil pack to convert pinheads to the graphite dark side. If Les was going to make their pencil pack, pencil conversion, pencil pack, pen conversion. Pencil pack, that's hard to say. What would you include?

Les Herger: This is a tough one because I sort of think of like pens in two different ways. I think of them for like sketching and then also for writing. And I think about pencils in the same way. So for sketching purposes, and I think this would go towards people who like fatter nibs, medium or broad nibs as well. The Midori MD paper products pencil in B, that thing is just so silky smooth. It skates cross page. Sketching purposes, it also gives you great tonality. So you get a lot of lights and a lot of darks out of it. The next pencil I'd suggest is the Mitsubishi Uni for handwriting and 4B.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

Les Herger: Deep, deep darks. Just really a great pencil for sketching.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I'm like two for two in things I need to try already. I'm writing all this down.

Les Herger: And then any pencil with the Blackwing Pearl core. Because it gets you some of the lighter shades with it. But you can also switch it out and write with it. So if you just want to get some details down, quick ideas, Blackwing Pearl I think is fabulous. And then for writing, I like things a little harder when I'm writing. Any Nataraj with the super black core. Like the metallic.

Les Herger: The Gleemo. Anything like that. The Joy. All of those are just... It's a really great pencil for writing.

Les Herger: Then the Blackwing Volumes Extra Firm Core. Which I think is kind of unfair to suggest a limited edition edition. But they need to just make it in the regular edition. I'm pretty sure, at least in my testing purposes and in feel, that the Extra Firm is actually just the regular Palomino HB.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

Les Herger: But they've never said that. They've never confirmed that. But to me, they're the same.

Brad Dowdy: And they've got to release it as a regular lineup product, right? I mean, they just have to.

Les Herger: Well, they've been stringing us along. It's the carrot on the end of the stick at this point. And then the Ticonderoga Stripes, I think. Which are the multicolored Ticonderoga. They're made in China. Which is usually a sign with Ticonderoga that you're getting better quality than the Ticonderoga made in Mexico.

Brad Dowdy: Gotcha.

Les Herger: So, yeah. And they're at Staples right now. Super cheap for the back to school. So that would be my package. Awesome.

Brad Dowdy: Well, I can double down the price for the Ticonderoga Stripes. That's in my hand right now. Writing in, let me get this name right, the No Brand Notebook. Like, we didn't even get to talk about, like, all the bookbinding and paper stuff. God, you're into, like, as I started to go through this, it's like, this could be, like, a 10-hour long podcast. You're into so much stuff.

Les Herger: I got to stay busy. If I, I, I, I'm just someone that has to stay busy, you know? I get bored easy.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So I will, I'm going to hit you up for that in just a second. So, um, the, the Inky Spide. Or, yeah, I guess I'm saying that right. You never know with Twitter handles. This was, uh, to me, I'd also love to hear if you want to make any changes to your existing pack on CW. So I have a pencil set. I work with Caroline and Caitlin and the whole crew up there. Who is now selling mechanical pencils, by the way? Did you see that coming? I didn't see that coming.

Les Herger: I did. I didn't see it coming. But I saw the, the advertisement. I was like, yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: They did a good job. Uh, curating, like, their, their first set of mechanical pencils. Some really, really neat stuff. So I think the only thing I would swap out in my set of what I have right now is I love the Mitsubishi 9850. For just like the, I think they even stamp it on their like office pencil or something like that. Or for office use. It's a very basic pencil, but it writes phenomenally. And I didn't realize until I talked about it once, um, our friend Tim from the erasables said, hey, did you know there's a, an eco-friendly barrel for that? Same core, but, um, different, you know, you know, eco-friendly recycled wood, recycled eraser. So there's a model called the 9852EW, which when I looked up online, whose review popped up first, not yours, but D. So your good friend D has, has a review on this exact pencil, which I didn't realize was the same internals as the 9850. So I prefer it over the 9850. So maybe I'll have to switch that around one day, but still, um, both of those pencils are cool and they're, they're pretty cheap. They're like in the dollar, dollar 50 range. So that would be my only choice. All right. So since I didn't get to talk to you about like making notebooks, you know, more of the book binding stuff, um, you've done tons of posts on your process of making notebooks. And you just said, you got to keep yourself busy. I want to know what's next. Like, what are you making next? Like, I know you're big into the watercolors right now. Like I'm following you. Yeah. The, the rate at which you produce things, it boggles my mind. So like, it's not only the NaNoWriMo, it's the, it's the watercolor painting per day. It's the color palettes that I comment on your ridiculous names. Cause they're hilarious. Like, you know, pizza calzone and I don't know, booger snot. I don't know. There's just whatever pops into your head and I'm just dying, but it's always something. How do you do it? Uh, number one. And then what's next? Cause there's gotta be something next.

Les Herger: Well, so, so some of the stuff that I did really doesn't take a lot of time. Like the, uh, watercolor swatches, those take literally five minutes and they're meant as a speed journaling technique. So basically it's, and it also helps me learn what colors blend well in my watercolor palettes.

Brad Dowdy: Gotcha.

Les Herger: So it's, it's, it's a useful, but quick thing I can do every night to keep my watercolor practice going. Um, so it takes five minutes and then I shoot a picture of it, put it up on Instagram. Uh, and then the, the, uh, a hundred days project, um, that takes a little longer. That really takes between 20 and 30 minutes, a little longer if I'm setting up to video.

Brad Dowdy: See, I'm just going to hurt you now. Like I couldn't draw, you know, a stick figure in five hours and you're making these super cool watercolors and God, it takes a long, like 20, 30 minutes.

Les Herger: So, so, um, I decided, God, when was it? I think it was back in 2006, maybe 2009 that I wanted to do portraits better and literally sat down and drew faces. And I should, I've posted some of my early drawings from back then. I mean, they're horrible. I mean, you, I mean, people look deformed, like I deformed people who are beautiful and, you know, but so part of it is just like, I decided I wanted to do this better. And I set aside a few minutes every day to do it until I got better at it. And now I'm at the point where, you know, after a couple of days of practice, like my, the first, um, I'm not going to name cause I'm not going to get political on here, but the first person I did for my hundred days project, which was, I think I'm at 40 now. Wow. It was horrible. And then by the time I got three faces in, I, it was like, it's like riding a bike. The skills are still there.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Right. Right.

Writing Podcast Plans

Les Herger: Um, but as for what's next, um, I'm actually, I'm toying with doing another podcast specifically around writing. I, I haven't nailed it down yet and I haven't found a co-host yet, but I'm, I'm going to be talking to some people and I'm not sure if I want to do it just for me, just as I'm the only one there with occasional co-hosts or not, but I'm, that's, I think that's what's next.

Brad Dowdy: Gotcha. Yeah. Well, whatever it is, I know it's going to be good and I know I'll be following along. Thank you so much for joining me. You're fascinating and lovely and interesting. And I just, I love talking to you. I wish we could talk more. Um, you know, we could, uh, we could go another hour here without a doubt, just off the top of my head from following you for so many years. So I really appreciate it.

Les Herger: Well, thanks for having me on. I, I, you know, it's always lovely having a conversation with you and anytime you want to come on to RSVP, you know, we'd love to pester you with questions too.

Brad Dowdy: Hey, I'm there. So speaking of which, why don't you tell everyone where you can find RSVP and everywhere else you're at?

Les Herger: So you can find RSVP at RSVP stationary podcast.com. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at original LC Harper and comfortable shoe studio.com.

Brad Dowdy: Awesome. And you can find me on pen addict.com. This podcast will be up on relay.fm slash pen addict slash three one eight. Once it, once it posts and I'm on Twitter at dowdyism, Instagram at pen addict Twitch. That seems to be my new thing. I'm also pen addict on there. So until then, until next week, maybe Michael return, maybe he won't, but regardless, this was a good one. Until next time, say goodbye, Les.

Les Herger: Bye, Les.