The Pen Addict 283/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	283
Title:	A Significant Business in Clever Pen Cases
Release Date:	November 15th, 2017
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 283
Audio File:	Audio Episode 283
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 283
Length:	6363 min <br />1.05 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 283. Today's show is brought to you by Harry's and Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by Mr. Brad Dowdy.

Brad Dowdy: Hello, Myke Hurley. How are you?

Myke Hurley: I'm very well, Brad Dowdy. How are you?

Brad Dowdy: I'm good. I have a little bit of a different setup today. So, one of the top podcaster rules is never let your Skype auto-update, except I did not follow that rule. And now I have the Crayola version of Skype now running. And one of the issues with it is when I don't have the main screen having priority, when it's behind another window, it puts a small window on top of all my other windows. So, now your face is staring at me the entire time and I can't get rid of it. Seems like an upgrade.

Brad Dowdy: So, yay, new Skype.

Myke Hurley: Hashtag podcaster problems, Brad.

New Podcast

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, podcaster problems. So, we have some new podcaster problems, Myke, that I want to talk about. It's a new podcast on the scene and I'm really thrilled with the first episode so far. It's called the BYOB Pen Club. It kind of came out of the pen show after dark bar scene at a pen show. All the people in the Slack podcast channel just deciding to get together and talk pens just kind of randomly. And everything about this is amazing. Did you have a chance to check this out yet?

Myke Hurley: I have seen the page because I looked at this one and I haven't listened yet. I have two points to bring up. One, I can see what you're doing of episode zero. Trying to suck me in to listen. We don't need a sexy British man. I assume you're talking about me, naturally.

Myke Hurley: And also, there's a page with the contributors. Of course, a lot of friendly faces. But it makes it look like there are about 116 hosts of this show and I don't understand. Is everybody on all the episodes? There's like seven people here.

Brad Dowdy: I think 116 is selling it short. Yeah. There was a good eight, at least on this. I didn't totally count, but I'm guessing eight. There might have been more. But I was going to mention the contributors page, too, because it is absolutely hilarious. You should just go read the contributors page. Even if you don't listen to it, it's hilarious. And luckily, we've had the honor of meeting most of these podcast hosts, I guess we'll call them. I don't know. At one point, Jim was walking down the street and getting on a bus. So they're definitely taking the come as you are route with this. And maybe we could learn something from that, Myke. I'll just go start walking my dog while we're recording. How does that work for you? Yeah. Not so much. That's what I wanted you to do. But the conversation is exactly like the conversation we have sitting around the bar at night at a pen show, right? It's really, really cool. And plus, I mean, I'm friends with everyone on this show, so I love hearing them talk anyway. So shout out to the BYOB Pen Club. I'll be listening. I'll be scared every time a new episode downloads, but I will certainly be listening. We had some really interesting follow-up last week, Myke. This Tiffany brand Sharpie pen permanent marker thing is not going to go away, and I'm very happy about that. Like, I'm glad this is a thing. And we got an email from Anna, not our Anna, but another Anna from Paris, France. And she says she wrote a very nice email, actually. I should probably respond to her directly instead of in the show.

Myke Hurley: No, the show is the best way. The show is the best way to have your question responded to. Surely. It is. Surely.

Brad Dowdy: Well, if she listened last week, she'll listen to this week, right? So Anna says, now in your last episode of The Pen Addict, you asked two questions I can answer. She said, A, in the French version of the Tiffany site, it says that their pen is rechargeable with any standard size Sharpie pen. So let me take that sentence at face value there. What she's, the way that's worded makes this sound like a Sherpa pen. Do you know what I'm talking about when I say that? No. It's the pen that goes over your pen. Oh.

Myke Hurley: Right. I had wondered if that was what it was, right? Now it's starting to make sense. It wasn't like a refill. You actually put a Sharpie inside of it.

Brad Dowdy: I did think that last week, but didn't really bring it up. I don't know why. It didn't look big enough for me to do that, but I guess it is. So that brings into the second point of her sentence. Plus, I have a teal colored Sharpie and it seems to match the ink used to draw on the balloon.

Brad Dowdy: So that makes me really think that it's the Sherpa, Sherpa model. So thank you, Anna. And she was so nice. She said, since I'm not 100% sure, I'm very tempted to call them and ask, should I?

Myke Hurley: Maybe we should just call them live on the show, right? I can just patch us into Tiffany's direct and we can speak to them. Can we have the Sharpie department, please? Yeah. We'd like to speak to the pen department. Thank you very much. I have Brad Dowdy on the line.

Brad Dowdy: Hold for Brad Dowdy. Yeah. But I thought this was great. This was actually really good feedback because now it's all making sense, like how this comes together. I don't know why I didn't think about that last week. So yeah, it's the, it's the, I think those things are called Sherpas, where they just kind of sleeve over your existing pen and Sharpie was one of the models that they made their pens to fit over. So there you go. So that's probably it. Speaking of refills that pen bodies fit over, how about every refill ever, Myke? The big eyed design TI Arto, which is a pen that I very much enjoy. It's one of the few that fits the Uniball Signo DX refill that I like so much. They have a smaller version called the EDC now out on Kickstarter. This was an Insta back for me. I haven't tested one out. I think he might've sent me one a few months ago or sent me some pictures a few months ago and I was like, yeah, this is great. I haven't held one yet or tested it out, but I liked the previous version. This one will fit all your same refills and it has a little bit of a, I don't know if modular is the right word, but the barrel extends to the length of your refill. So it's adjustable and it's a really customizable to the nth degree type of pen. You buy this pen barrel and then put essentially any refill in it will fit. The way it's made, it keeps the, it has this little cone mechanism in the, in the nose cone of the pen that keeps the refill tight and flush and right in the, the right writing area. They've done a really good job with this pen overall. And I'm always looking for like the shorty type models of the pens that I like. So I'm all over this.

Myke Hurley: This is a very, very clever design. This is very clever. And I think that that's what I would mostly call it, right? Cause I don't know if it's aesthetically, it doesn't really match my tastes. It's, it is very EDCE. And if that is your bag, like it's great. But like, this is a, this is an ingenious design in both aspects, right? The, the adjustableness at the tip and the adjustableness of the refill kind of housing. Um, it's very clever. You know what it reminds me of? You know, like those, uh, those trailers where you can pull out something from the side and then you have a living room. That's what it reminds me of. And then like, you put it back in when you need to go on the road again. Um, so this is the RV of pens. It's the RV of pens. But like, this is, I'm not surprised that this has raised, uh, over the $90,000 at the time that we were recording this. This is a very, very, very clever pen. Um, and it's, you know, it is, it is nicely designed. Uh, it looks good, but it's, I really think that it's, it's, it's the ingeniousness of it that will make it useful for people. This is a very, very good idea to, to, to help with the, what about this refill? Right. Which I'm sure every Kickstarter pen maker gets. So yeah, I think this is, I think this is really cool.

Big Eye Design

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I've been loving the metamorphosis of big eye design since they started, you know, they kind of came on the scene around when our podcast came on the scene and I've been following them ever since. And like some of their very simple, straightforward designs were really good in the past. And they've continued to work on new designs and expand on what they're working on and do these neat things that are, you know, are, you know, challenging to do. And it shows in the amount of money that they've raised in like two days, I think this, or three days. I think this came out on Monday, 90 grand already. That's stunning. Yeah. That's, that's really, really good. So yeah, congrats to those guys. And Chadwick's actually moved within a few hours from me instead of, uh, in the Chicago area. So I might show up at his door when these come in and like raid the, raid the house or something, you know, don't tell him though. I'm going to show up at your house pretty soon with this shopping spree that you're on. So you already have the Sailor, the Sailor Pro Gear Slim Purple Cosmos is already at your house. Is that what you're telling me?

Myke Hurley: I'm using it today and it's out of stock now. Like I'm looking at Penchelle. Penchelle is sold out.

Brad Dowdy: Um, well, everyone's going to sell out of this one. There's only 800.

Myke Hurley: Well, I have it.

Brad Dowdy: I was shocked they had it.

Myke Hurley: I have it. It arrived yesterday. I absolutely love it. Um, I am really surprised about, uh, Sailor's bold nibs, what they call a bold nib.

Myke Hurley: I was like, did I order the wrong one? Cause it's, it puts down effectively the exact same line that the medium does. Um, there's just like some slight variation when I run it sideways, right? Like it produces a thicker line there, but the way that I write the medium and the broader, almost indistinguishable, which is kind of funny to me. Um, I, I noticed the slimness of it, right? And I mostly know it in the lightness, um, of this pen compared to the regular Pro Gear, but I absolutely adore this pen. Um, I don't notice the, the slimness of the slim until I hold it against the Pro, like the regular Pro Gear. So when I'm using it, I don't really notice it, but then when I compare them, I notice it. Uh, yep. And I, yeah, I absolutely love this pen, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: It's a stunner. And I'm glad you got a slim to have that comparison point. I was wondering what you would think about it. I enjoy the slim. I like it. Just like you, the Pro Gear. I prefer the regular.

Myke Hurley: I prefer the regular size, but I am very, very happy that I've made this purchase because I absolutely adore the finish. Um, and I realized I don't think I have any purple pens, so this is great. And I filled it with Califolio Andronople because I figured that would be like a nice balance between them. That's a good, that's a good match. Purple and the pink. And plus, I just love that ink. Any excuse I get to use that ink is always good times for me. Um, I'm going to tell you, Brad, there is some serious, there is some serious deliveries occurring for me right now.

Myke Hurley: The situation is increasing. I will, I will talk about it, uh, now. So I'm going to be, uh, in Las Vegas next week. So I'm taking a week off again in Las Vegas and I have two pens being delivered to my hotel.

Myke Hurley: You're out of here. One of them, again, like this, this deal is not done yet, so I don't want to give away too many details, but I have a lead on the bung box. Uh, was it the 50th limited edition? Fifth. Fifth. I should say, sorry. The 5th, 5th, 5th, 5th limited edition, uh, Progear. The gold. Yeah. The 5-year anniversary. 5-year anniversary bung box. There we go. Thank you for correcting me because I butchered that. Um, the one you were mad at me and Father Kylo. Everyone forgetting and nobody would tell me about it. Um, but now I have a lead on one and I may be picking it up, um, in Vegas. Well, being sent to me in Vegas. The other is my Sean Newton pen is done. Ooh.

Brad Dowdy: Ooh. Okay. So, I saw the picture. I didn't know it was going to be, like, done that quick. You're going to, this is, yeah, this is big time. How long, what was the, what was the cue like for the Newton? I ordered it in January. Okay. So, about a year. Wow. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. It was funny because he sent me an email and he was like, I've started working your pen now. And then, like, I think like six hours later, he was like, it's done. I was like, oh, wow. Okay. He must make so many of these then. Um, yeah. So, I kind of got an idea as to, like, how he puts these things together, which was fun. And it's been really great to work with Sean because he's, I can tell he's excited. Um, because he, like, you know, he was sending me pictures over, like, a day, like, a 24-hour period. Um, and it's up on his Instagram, my pen. And I put a link to it in the show notes.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. This will be in the show notes. It's a stunner. I love this color. It's a primary manipulation. Yep. From Jonathan Brooks. It's a very green edition of the primary edition.

Myke Hurley: There's some purple in there. And, um, he sent me some pictures, like, personally, like, lots more. Um, and it looks even better than the pictures from Instagram. Like, he sent me a lot more. Um, and I'm very, very excited about this.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. This is a stunner. I, I'm, I'm jealous of that one. I've been looking when Sean's been at shows. He's had some primary, primary manipulation models and I've never, like, pulled the trigger. But that's always in the back of my mind. It's like, I need to get one of these. So, yeah. Very cool. I think you're going to love it.

Myke Hurley: The best, the best detail for me, which you don't see in these pictures, is the, um, the end of the pen. Because it's got, you can see all the layers in it. Oh, yeah. Um, and it looks just, that's, that's my favorite detail. It's like, just the very end. Because you can see the layers of the swirls. Like, the, what kind of, like, the thin. Yeah, it looks, it looks wonderful. It reminds me, um, there's a chocolate bar in England called the Cadbury Flake. Mm-hmm. And it's just, like, these ripples of chocolate. And you bite into it and you can kind of see it. But, yeah, it looks like that to me. Um, I'm very, I'm very excited about picking these two pens up, Brad. I'm not going to lie. It's going to be a great time.

Brad Dowdy: I hope they both, I hope they both hit the window. That will be perfect. Yes. All right, so, we got a Field Notes launch, Myke. Were you prepared for this this week? I don't, I remember getting the shipping notification last week and then this dropped and I was like, hey, wait a minute, is it that time already?

Myke Hurley: I was expecting to see the, uh, the anniversary edition before. My expectation now is that they're shipping together. Yes. But I don't know.

Field Notes Edition

Brad Dowdy: I think they're shipping together. It would make sense. So, this one's called the Field Notes Resolution Edition. Are we going to play the game where we guess what each other thinks? Yes, it's the best thing to do. I don't know that I've had time to.

Myke Hurley: It's the most thing to do. I'm going to go first. I'm going to say that you love these for two reasons. The covers, because especially one of them is white and red and I know how much you love Day Game. And the other, because you're on this kick right now trying to get your life in gear with paper. A to-do list and calendar version is right up your alley right now.

Brad Dowdy: Okay, do I answer you or do I say what you think?

Myke Hurley: Say what you think I think and then we can grade.

Brad Dowdy: I think you also love them. Okay. For the planning aspect, because you too are trying to work on your planning for next year. You like to make notes and lists, so you'll have the to-do list models of the journal. And you might use the calendar as well. So, I think you very much like it.

Myke Hurley: Can I give you a piece of information? And I want to see if this piece of information changes your opinion about my opinion. What? Ambition is probably my least favorite of all time. Mm-hmm. Does that change your mind on what you think I think?

Brad Dowdy: No.

Myke Hurley: Good man. Okay.

Brad Dowdy: Because this ambition was so different with the gilding, it was kind of particular. Yep. This is a very traditional style.

Brad Dowdy: You know, very field notesy, as Jim likes to say. So, yeah, no, I don't think that changes with this one. I think you like it.

Myke Hurley: Ambition, I really didn't like Ambition, because it felt too boxed in to me with what you were supposed to do. It was like, here was a ledger, and it had a date book, which is, I think, kind of similar to what they've done here with one of them. It's basically the same kind of design. And then it had a grid. And I just didn't... I liked the gilding. That was all. I didn't really like anything else about the addition. But this one, I like, because a focus on to-dos as a reason for a book is way better than any other thing that they've done before. Honestly, the date book aspect, like the calendar one, I'm not that interested in that one. If they did three of those, this would also go down on my list as one of my least favorites, because I just don't use my field notes as a diary. But as a, like, to-do list, that's what I would totally use. And from what I can understand, there are two of the to-do list ones, one of the date book, plus the design is quintessential field notes with really great contrasting colors, simple. And I'm assuming that I was right that you love it?

Brad Dowdy: I don't. Oh, okay. I don't love it.

Myke Hurley: Huh, okay.

Brad Dowdy: The covers I love. If this was a regular edition, I mean, if they just called this the whatever edition, red, white, and blue edition, you know, and had regular paper, I'd be fine.

Brad Dowdy: I don't need... This is a release they should have done, right? This is a Make Sense release. It looks beautiful. It's very functional. It's the right time of year. Everything about this release, I'm down with.

Brad Dowdy: I just personally won't use it because I don't... I don't like having that fixed to-do list. Yeah, I get that. Which is, like, what Word Notebooks does. Like, I work off of to-do lists, but I put them in a notebook or an index card, not in a pocket notebook, really. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I don't want a dedicated entire to-do list notebook, which you don't have to use it that way, but that's what it's built for. Yeah. I actually prefer the calendar one. I would use the calendar one more than the to-do list one. And we're actually coming out with an index card calendar that's laid out just like this for Field Notes, which kind of goes into our next topic, which will be about inspiration for products. But we have an index card that's at the printer right now that's going to be this exact same layout or similar layout for a single card.

Brad Dowdy: But this is the layout I use in the Midori weekly that I love so much. Like, this is the perfect layout for me. So that's why we're making an index card for it, too. So I love the calendar. I don't like the to-do list. So I would totally use the calendar one.

Ambition Notebook

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I get it, right? Like, for whatever reason, like, if I remember rightly, you did like Ambition.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, but I never used it. I thought it was cool, but yeah. You see, I could see myself using two-thirds of this, right? Like, the to-do book, like, that makes a lot of sense for me, right? Like, I would write a list, right? And I just check off the items on the list. Like, I like that. And I like that the lines are in contrasting colors in the page, right? So it's just, like, an easy way to see line by line all of the items. See, I like this book. I would use it. I would be more likely to use it. And Edina is going to go crazy when I give her the other pack. I know she's going to just freak out over these ones.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, see, I don't... The reason I wouldn't use the to-do list and why I don't use the word to-do list, because I don't need a continuation to-do list, right? This is essentially one large list. You can break it up and, you know, do different things. But I see this as a continuation list where today I have five things, and then I have to figure out a way to break it up till tomorrow, which, you know, that's not a... I mean, that's a me problem, not a notebook problem. You know, you just put the next date on the list, but this is the way I see things, right? So I would never use that. But the daily one, the weekly one.

Myke Hurley: 35,000 packs. Wow. It's a big one. They've done this before. No, it is matching with their biggest ever. So Lunacy and Utility were both 35. I'm expecting that this is because they're doing something with the paper again, which means that they needed to... Like, you know, we were talking about this on the show, right? About the... They were kind of doing something and pressing their own paper, and it might be something like that would be my expectation.

Brad Dowdy: So... Like for the covers. I don't think so with this one, because that's the last... Oh, with the covers, maybe. Yeah. But the interior paper is something they've never used before, and honestly, I'm a little bit concerned with it because it's a partially recycled paper, and I don't know how those are going to act. So this is going to be a wait and see. It's a Domtar Earth Choice, and I went and looked up some of the specs on it. So it's nothing they've ever used before, and it's a gray-based paper. So I'm a little bit anxious to see how that works. So it'll, you know... Obviously, we'll know when we get it. Yeah, I expect... Obviously, they tested it out beforehand, so I'm sure it's going to be fine.

Myke Hurley: Either the insides or outsides, there's been a reason... I would expect there's a reason that they have had to do a larger run. Like when you look at some of the other ones that they've done this for, right, which is utility... Most recent, utility and lunacy, and they're doing something that I'm expecting is very... And Shenandoah was 40. So I expect that, you know, they're doing something which is very specific with the paper which is put up there.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, Shenandoah, as we learned, was the cover.

Myke Hurley: Like they had to... Because they were... What were they doing? Binding to... Duplexing the covers. Duplexing, that's it. The other option is, it's Christmas, they know they're going to sell a bunch, and they're giving away the 10th anniversary pack, so maybe they just have more subscriptions to give away this time. Like...

Brad Dowdy: Well, and it's a good addition for retail as well.

Myke Hurley: This is going to... Yeah, I expect it will sell very well. I think this one is going to sell very, very well because this is something that people want to use Pocket Notebooks for. Right? They even said, like, these are, like, two of their most, like, requested things to do.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, but here's the thing, and this is the thing that I talk about with Jeff. When we're designing products, you know, we're designing a weekly calendar note card, and the pack will have 52 cards in it. You don't need five packs of those.

Brad Dowdy: Right? You need one. So we're going to sell you one pack of cards. How many multiple purchases are you going to have of this notebook?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, but they don't need to worry about that, though. Like, field notes don't have to worry about that problem because they make a limited amount and sell them all. Right? Like, I know why you would be concerned because you don't know. But, like, yeah, but their track record says they will sell all of these, you know?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. But I think that it is a limiting edition for, you know, what are you going to buy? Two packs so you have one for next year? You know?

Brad Dowdy: That's awesome. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I'm getting two packs of these where I don't even need two packs if I love this edition.

Myke Hurley: But what if you end up like me where, like, how I was with Byline, love that edition so much that I made sure I bought as many as I could possibly buy, right? And then I can see someone doing that with this where it's like, oh, no, they're only making this one time. I need to buy five of those so I've got one for the next five years.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'll disagree with you there.

Myke Hurley: But it's fine. It's fine to disagree. I'm expecting we're going to be doing a lot of that in a minute. I'm very, I'm very, very hesitant of this topic in our, in our show notes here. I'm very, very hesitant of it. Well, let's get to it. I have no, I have absolutely no idea what's about to happen to us. Today's show is brought to you by Harry's. Harry's are all about giving you a great shave at a fair price and that's exactly why over three million people have switched to Harry's. Harry's make their own blades. They have a factory in Germany with over 100 years of blade making experience. This is how they ensure the highest quality for their blades and it's why they sell at half the price of the leading five blade razor brands directly to you over the internet because they make them themselves. They sell direct to you. They believe in their products so much that they're all backed by a 100% quality guarantee. Harry's is so confident that you're going to love what they make. They want to give you a free trial set. You just need to cover the cost for shipping. This free trial set includes a weighted ergonomic razor handle, five precision engineered blades of a lubricating strip and trimmer blade, their rich lathering shave gel and a travel blade cover. This is of a $13 value for you to try out right now. All you need to do is go to harrys.com slash penaddict to get started. All you need to do is cover that shipping cost. This is a free trial offer. This free trial set includes a bunch of great Harry's products. It's worth $13. You just need to cover the shipping. And for those of you looking to get your holiday shopping done early, Harry's have just released their special edition holiday sets and they make great gifts as well. So you can check them out on that page too. Brad, do you have anything you'd love to say about Harry's today?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I got the holiday set. I didn't know that was going to be today's. I forgot about that. It's usually the next ad, you know, probably around like the beginning of December we would do it. So I was going to hold it. I was going to tease it.

Myke Hurley: Well, you can, I would say maybe just give some very basic information because they haven't told me that you should be talking about it right now. So maybe you just want to want to tease how amazing it is.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so it's the, it's got the new handle style they did. That's the, I don't know what material is, but it's like the chrome one, but they're using this really neat green color as an accent. And I'm really happy with how it looks. It looks better than the last one and the last one looked really good. So, yeah. So we'll, we'll talk about that more next time as I get to use them, but I'm really excited about the colors that they chose. It's kind of like the Harry's green, if you will. Yeah. So that's something they probably should have done a long time ago, you know, their own branded color green because every, all the packaging, all the, you know, shave gels and everything comes in that green color packaging. So now they're accented on the handles. Very festive.

Myke Hurley: Harry's.com slash pen addict to sign up right now. I get that free trial set. Check out the shipping, check out, check out the holiday shopping sets, I should say, and you just pay that cost for shipping and you get that free trial set sent to you. Thank you so much to Harry's for their support of this show and Relay FM.

Brad Dowdy: All right. It's time for Brad to get in trouble.

Myke Hurley: Oh gosh.

Pen Cases

Brad Dowdy: Not really. Because I, this is a topic that comes up pretty frequently, you know, just in general terms, you know, not necessarily on the podcast, but just, you know, online and chat rooms on Twitter, things like that. You know, the product inspiration or knockoff or whatever word you want to put to different types of things and there were enough questions piling up about several different things that I kind of wanted to go into my brain a little bit, which is a scary place, admittedly, Myke. It's a scary place because I have thoughts. They're not always popular thoughts, but I believe in what I believe in and I take a stand on those things and people have, you know, what my thoughts on different products and, you know, did somebody rip somebody off? Is this a knockoff? Is this an inspiration? So, what I'm going to try to do today is give some examples to show that this is an extremely nuanced conversation. Everything is pretty much on an individual basis. There's no, you know, overarching one thing you can apply to all these situations and what brought this up the most was a review that appeared on the Pen Addict. There was a pen case review from a company called Wancher, the Penfolium 13. So, they sent me that to review and I sent it off to Susan because she's got a lot of good fountain pens. She takes great pictures. I thought she would do the best job with that case.

Myke Hurley: Pictures are wonderful for this one.

Brad Dowdy: She does such a good job. I didn't even cross my mind when I got this case because I don't own any case like this that Franklin Kristoff has a 13 pen case. Like, I didn't put that, didn't put two and two together. I was like, okay, we'll review this pen case. It looks good.

Brad Dowdy: As it turns out, we posted that last Friday. Saturday, I got an email from Scott Franklin. He's like, hey, just want to give you some information on the pen case. Susan reviewed. And I feel bad for Susan. Susan got wrapped up in the mess. She didn't do anything. But she felt bad. She was in her job, right? Yeah. She has no reason to feel bad about this review. It was a good review. And I wouldn't change anything. You know, not taking it down or anything. He said, this is the original 13 pen case that we made. And this is, I'm not telling Scott and I's business. He made a post on the comment section of the pen addict. So this is all public information. I'm not telling Scott and I's private conversation without him being aware. But he put it out there that this is the original design they sent to a factory in India. And that factory has ended up pawning it off as one of their designs that they will manufacture for you.

Brad Dowdy: He said, it's the exact shape. It's the exact stitching. It's the exact fabric. There's all these details in it that we know for a fact it's our case. And he said, we never made this case. You know, they make a different 13 pen case that's much bigger and stronger and more durable than this one. He said, but that's our original case for a fact. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. So, Wancher, from their perspective, do they know that? My guess is they don't. Scott's guess is they don't. My guess is they deal with this factory or this factory approached them to manufacture some goods. The factory just happens to have the pattern and know how to make it and Wancher said, yeah, give me 20. You know, I don't think they commission this design because it's, there is no design to commission. The design existed already, right? Does that make sense? So, I don't think Wancher's at fault.

Myke Hurley: The factory might just be offering this up as just like a, this is something that we can make for you and they're like, sure. Like, maybe like, we want to change this color, we want to make it this material and then it just goes ahead and gets produced and the factory can, can just, can do it.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Exactly. So, you know, I don't believe they did anything nefarious. I, maybe that's, you know, me with rose colored glasses. I don't have any reason to believe that, you know, they drove this necessarily.

Myke Hurley: But like, so I would say in this, in this instance, right? So, okay, you mentioned this at the top, like, it's very nuanced and everybody's going to have their own opinions and whether me or you call something a knockoff or not doesn't mean that it is or it isn't but it's the way that we look at it. Like, this is a knockoff but it's unintentional by Wancha but it is being knocked off by the factory.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. Which, unfortunately, you know, it doesn't matter where the factory is located in India, China, or the US. These things happen. Like, I've, these things happen in the US. You know, it's not a, because it's an overseas manufacturer but there's less repercussions and actions you can take towards overseas companies that do this. But there's, I've definitely gotten emails of US companies doing things to certain people, you know, that have, you know, trusted them with their designs and all of a sudden someone ends up with the exact same design.

Brad Dowdy: So, you know, I don't know that there's, like, a final thing to say on this. It kind of is what it is. You know, it's, I feel bad for Franklin Kristoff mostly, right, because their original work has gone on to something else but from Franklin Kristoff's perspective, they've moved on and made something better, right? So, they have a better product that they love even more and that, actually, our community loves very much. It's a very popular case which is funny to me why it didn't even cross my mind that it was close to it. I just don't own one. So, that case is interesting. The same day, I start getting tweets and DMs and going, hey, did you see this pen? I'm like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. So, our friends Sean Newton and Jonathan Brooks made a pen that looks exactly like a Nakaya Decapod. so, if you're not familiar with the Decapod, it's a 10-sided Arushi pen and Sean made a 9-sided pen model called the Quapaw and sent it to Jonathan to apply his Arushi to it and the final image I think is what threw people off. it looks like a Decapod. Like, exactly. Like, if you put that picture up and I didn't know who put up that picture, I'd say, oh, that's a really pretty Decapod. So, now people are asking me, is that a knockoff? Did they rip Nakaya off? What is going on here?

Brad Dowdy: It's a piece of art to me. Right? I don't, this is an inspiration for a pen. That style of a faceted pen,

Brad Dowdy: the Arushi colors, you know, it looks the same, but this is a single pen. That's a piece of art, not a manufactured attempt to say, here's our version of the Decapod that we're not going to say. You know, we're going to just start making this pen and, you know, this is a straight riff on the Decapod. I think it's two artists getting together made something really cool and it's a singular pen, right? I mean, the only hang-up I would have personally, if I was Sean and Jonathan, is absolutely every time someone sees or holds that pen, they're going to go Nakaya Decapod. So they put themselves in that position. It's unavoidable. Do you want that as an artisan? I don't know. I mean, clearly they considered it. It's the exact same color. It's the same shape. It's the same facet finishing. So what are your thoughts on this? Like, this is, I mean, I don't think this is a knockoff or a ripoff. I think it's an inspiration. I think it's an art piece, you know, if you will. It was handcrafted. I have no problem with them getting inspiration from Nakaya to make a beautiful pen. you know, it's not a mass market. Hey, let's try to do this, be this thing that we're not. So I have no problem with this. What are your thoughts on this?

Myke Hurley: I think it all depends on the intention. And I don't know what the intention is for this pen. Me neither. If they're like, we will now sell these at scale. I think that's a very different conversation at that point. Because, I mean, you can never really know what people have seen. but that is undeniable what the inspiration is for this pen. It's too close in design. If this is a pen that they made as a commission, or if this is a pen that they just wanted to see if they could make something like this, or if this is a pen that one of them will now keep personally, and maybe sell down the line, I think it's fine to do this one off. I think it's totally fine. But I don't think it would be totally cool if they were like, put your name in, and we'll make this pen for you. I feel like that would be tricky. I think they can make this design, but I think they've at least got to change the colors. Nakaya can't own the market on a faceted pen made out of a Rushi. They can't do that because it's too basic. It's too simple of a design. You know what I mean? It's not... I don't think that they could own this, but they totally own that exact look, right? Like, with the brown and the green and the green popping out of the facets, right? Like, because... And the reason is because you see it and you know who made it, right? Like you said, like, this pen, like, you look at it and you're like, oh, that's an Nakaya. And they'd have to be like, oh, no, but wait, we made that, right? And I think it's totally cool for them to be making these pens, and it is a compliment to them that they, that can, especially for Jonathan, that he has gotten so good, right? Like, in the last time I saw his stuff, it was so good, I just assumed they were Nakayas because that's how good he has gotten. But I think if they want to go down this route, then they will just find their own colors and their own like, finishes to it, you know? I think that's the key. But as you say, this is like a one-off. I don't think it's a problem. I don't think it's a problem. But if they were to be like, oh yeah, now we sell these, we've made a thousand of them, it'd be like, okay guys, I think that maybe you should, just for your own sake, you should think differently because that colorway especially is just too close. It's just too close.

Brad Dowdy: And see, I think that the Decapod style is very Nakaya whereas like a basic, you know, Piccolo cigar shaped design, no one would be saying a word, right? Right? It's like, but like, who determines that, right? Like, these are the nuances of the discussions that we have, right? So, it's very interesting. It's like, I'm glad all this stuff came up because now that allows me to talk about the next topic, which I said I've had 800 questions about. That's probably, you know, I've probably had 80. And that's not co compared to Rickshaw. I have a

Myke Hurley: very strong opinion about this, actually.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. Okay. I'm interested to hear that because I don't have a very strong opinion about this.

Brad Dowdy: To me, these cases are an inspiration.

Myke Hurley: Yep.

NOC Co. Designs

Brad Dowdy: like, our, the NOC co, let's, let's rewind this a little bit to those who may be new to me and NOC. Our Brasstown case was inspired from a case called the Nomadic PE09. They stopped making that case, Nomadic did, years and years and years ago. It was always my favorite pen case. It was a rollout case. It had some problems with it that I wanted to change in the design, but our design was inspired by that.

Brad Dowdy: I'm honored that Rickshaw would choose our designs if that's what he did. I don't know if that's his intention, but Mark's been a customer of ours since our very first Kickstarter, so he's very well aware of what we do.

Brad Dowdy: That a larger company like Rickshaw that owns their own factory gets into the pen case business I think says a lot about the business that we've chosen to get into, and I think it's a positive thing. I think that someone is actually inspired by the cases that we make, us two little jokers in a garage in Atlanta, that kind of validates our business model in my mind. So I have zero issue with what Rickshaw's doing, and people were super worried about me. In San Francisco, when Mark was there and he was handing out his cases to everybody, they would come over to me like, do you see this? Are you okay? I'm like, yeah. I mean, we didn't invent the pen case, people. We made a cool case, put our own twist on it, and someone else sees a valid business in that market. Well, that's just good for us because that means we made a good decision. So that's the way I see the Rickshaw stuff.

Myke Hurley: So I believe that very strongly that this is purely an inspiration thing, and whether they drew inspiration from you or somebody else, maybe they drew inspiration from the same place you drew inspiration from, right? But looking at their products, they have a pen roll, they have a three-pen case, they have an organizer type thing, which is similar to the lookouts, right? Right. But there are differences, like key differences into how they make their products, which could be better or worse in some way, but they have taken it and they have made some advancements, right? Like their pen roll, well, they made changes, I don't know whether they're advancements, but like they fasten differently.

Brad Dowdy: Sure, sure.

Myke Hurley: They have an overlap, which is different, and then even something like their pen sleeves, the Trio and the Clover pen sleeve, that's a really smart design

Brad Dowdy: that I like a lot. Well, that's an inspired design, Myke, so you got to understand where all of their designs are coming from. Where does that come from? There's a leather, there's a three and four, leather pen sleeve that's really popular that was carried around at San Francisco.

Myke Hurley: So,

Brad Dowdy: yeah, I have never seen it. There was a Kickstarter and there was a Kickstarter with a design like that too. So, yeah.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I mean, again, like, what did I say? Everything's a remix? Yep. Because I look at this and I'm like, I don't think that they're trying to put you guys out of business, right? Like, I don't, you know, and I don't think that they're just like rocking over to notco.com and they're like, let's pick off what we want to pick off from this. But I think what has happened is you are, what is it, like,

Myke Hurley: this is, this maybe isn't the term that I'm looking for, but I can't think of anything else, like, you kind of, the masters of your own demise type thing, right? you guys have shown that there is a business here, right? So you are going to get competition from bigger companies now because, like, you have shown this industry, the bag industry, that it is possible to carve out a significant business in clever pen cases, right? Made out of these types of materials. So, like, I have no doubt that you and Jeff have just been waiting for this to happen. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. But what it has done, I mean, there are many ways to look at this, but, like, this is a way that at least this is looked at quite a lot in technology design, like, product design and technology. You have been legitimized by this. Right. Because other companies doing this is showing that it's there and a rising tide lifts all boats. And if you can look at it that way, it's like, great, there is now a bigger market than there ever was before for pen cases. We were first in this, in this new wave. So you already have a leg up and you already have a laundry list of products that you're creating. So I don't think this is a knockoff. I think there is some clear inspiration, but I also think that they are doing what any good inspired person would do is to take it and turn it and make it their own. And in doing that, it doesn't ruin you because people are going to like or not like. Me personally, I don't want a toggle for the way to fasten these things up, right? Like they use that toggle and elastic thing. I don't want that. I either want it to be fastened of its own accord or to use a zipper or like Velcro or something. I don't like a toggle because I hate using those when it's cold. It reminds me of when I was a kid and it would ping and hit you in the finger and you would want to cry, right? Like that's all I think of when I see those toggle type things. but yeah, I can see why people would be like, oh no, Brad's gonna go hungry, but this is

Brad Dowdy: not that. This is not that. Well, you and I agree 100% on this one. Like total inspiration, you know, knock yourself out, Rickshaw. You know, we're all inspired from somewhere. Maybe it's not even our pen cases, you know, some of our designs are, you know, one of the designs, like our lookout is this design from a, you know, essentially like a leather pen sleeve. That's like a very common design. It's not like we invented this design. We just did it differently in our way. You know, that someone else is getting into that business as well. Well, that's a validation for us. So I'm happy that more companies are in it because we're going to still keep being us, right? You know, we don't do things based on what other companies do. We do our own thing because we think it's cool. So no, no big deal there. So a couple other things I want to mention. One, I got four on my list here. One is very much one that I want to talk about. These next two I'm going to kind of burn through real quick. It's the Karis Customs pen versus the Everyman Grafton pen. This one bothers me a little bit because the clip design is like the exact clip design of the Karis Customs Retract. The Grafton basically took the design of the Retract, was inspired by it. I won't call it a knockoff because, I mean, they changed a few things. They actually made it worse. To be honest, they used some plastic parts. They used some plastic parts that failed.

Myke Hurley: When you copy and then make it worse.

Tactile Turn Glider

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It was a bad design. So this goes hand in hand with a more recent one, the Tactile Turn Glider, which is their bolt action pen and the Bastion EDC bolt action pen. I thought it was an exact copy of the Tactile Turn Glider. I'm bringing these up because these are the things I get in my inbox all the time. You know, every man is emailing me and Bastion's emailing me. Not personally, like they're sending out their mass marketing type stuff. And when I see the images, I'm like, oh my god, this looks exactly like another thing I've already done. You know, Ajoto had this issue with a company that on Kickstarter, they made like the exact pen is like, I just don't want any part of this. Whether it's inspiration, you know, it's not a knockoff because you're not taking their plans necessarily and, you know, using their exact codes in the CNC machines, you know, that would be a knockoff, you know, from a factory making the exact same thing, but the inspiration is too close in these cases.

Brad Dowdy: So I see that a lot. And you see that a lot in machine pens. And I don't know the answer to that, but I'm always willing to side with the ones that were first. Like you were saying, Myke, you know, not the first ever, but the first in general, like in the new wave, Karis Customs Yeah, Karis Customs really stepped out and made some cool pens, like they're retract, and then there's been a bunch of companies that have made something similar, you know. The Will wasn't the first one to make a bolt-action pen, but he had this unique kind of crescent mechanism. That's the exact mechanism that I'm seeing in this bastion pen. So I'm just not even comfortable talking to these people or getting their pens for review or things like that. So it's very, very weird. I stay away from that. This next one is the one I have the biggest problem with. Out of all these, I think this is a straight knockoff, Myke. and this is Baron Fig versus a company called Best Self Co.

Brad Dowdy: If I was Baron Fig, and I'm sure they are very upset, I would almost think there's some kind of legal action I could take. This company has basically taken the aesthetic of Baron Fig and transferred into their own almost similar products. the one I linked in the show notes for you to see wasn't even the notebooks, but Baron Fig has a manifesto poster that they made.

Myke Hurley: Holy moly. Okay, I see what you're doing here. Because I saw this and I was like, I mean, the manifesto poster, I don't even know why a company would sell this. It's the most navel-gazy. Yes, yes. I roll my eyes when I see any kind of company sell something like this, especially like a young company. Right. But then looking through the best self store is like, holy moly, they just make everything Baron Fig make.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so everyone knows my feelings on Baron Fig. That doesn't change the fact that they make a very good product, right? I don't use them. I have my own reasons, but their products are really good. We're prepping our gift guide episode. I have some Baron Fig stuff in there because they make good products. And if I was Baron Fig and seeing this site, I'm like, holy crap. What makes this worse for me, Myke, is when I clicked through, I was like, who are the people behind best self? So I went and dug around. One of the founders actually built this company to sell a course on how to build this company.

Brad Dowdy: So that tells you what they're in this for, right? In my opinion.

Brad Dowdy: Baron Fig's in it to design products for thinkers. best self is in it to copy products to make money. That's the way I see it. This was the most egregious of the list I could come up with.

Brad Dowdy: So, you know, it's a, this is a weird one. That's the most awkward one. Yeah. So out of, out of all these, the most common one we get all the time is any pin versus its quote Chinese knockoff. And that's what most people call them. So I'm using that terminology here. Specific case I put in the show doc was the Lamy Safari versus the Hero 359. These are straight knockoffs in my book. there's no, it's trying to profit in a mass production kind of way to a similar looking product that is very popular. I don't see any way around this.

Brad Dowdy: You know?

Myke Hurley: No, this is, this is the most clear cut, right? This is it. This is the clear cut version. This is like 100% knockoffs. Like you put a post in from Pentorium to the point where like the caps fit on the pen. Like it is, here is the design, we're going to take it, give a different name and sell it for cheap. Like it's 100% the exact same thing.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, and there's a long list that falls in this category, right? Yeah. I mean, this is a super, super long list. I just try to avoid these. I really don't, I mean, people ask me, why don't I review X pin or why don't I give more love to some other pin? And it's because a lot of times it's a company like hero that does all these other weird things that I just don't want to be involved with. Why do I want to send people down the path of getting the stuff? If you want to buy like the $3 Lamy Safari, go ahead. I honestly don't care. But to me, this is just the example of a straight up knockoff. So, and there's, this is a long, long list. You're starting to see some TWSBI knockoffs now and it's just weird. It's like, I mean, I care, but I don't kind of thing. It's like, I'm just not going to have any part of that. I don't want to be involved in any of that mess. So those were kind of my, my groupings when we talk about inspiration, we talk about knockoffs.

Brad Dowdy: It's not an easy conversation to have. It's not an easy conversation to have when I'm involved directly in some of it. You know, I, you know, but I mean, anyone can ask me anytime my thoughts and I'm happy to give, give an answer. you know, I am, I've always tried to be open about how we do things and open about what I feel about other products. And I'm happy to discuss that with anyone at any time. So I thought this was a good time to be open about a lot of the questions I've been getting just because it kind of all came to a head this past weekend over a pen case post of all things. So, so I'm glad we had this talk, Michael, we should talk about one of our sponsors and then hit a little more mea culpa follow up in the form of Ask TPA.

Squarespace Sponsorship

Myke Hurley: All right. Today's show is also brought to you by our friends over at Squarespace. Use the offer code Inc at checkout and you'll get 10% off your first purchase. No matter what type of website you want to build, you can make your next move with Squarespace. They have everything you're going to need to create your next online store, portfolio, blog, site for your business, site for your band, site for your restaurant. No matter what it is, they are the all-in-one platform that will let you take care of it. You can grab a domain name from them. You can take any templates or even speak to their 24-7 customer support team. If you need any help, they've got you covered. You don't have to worry about anything with Squarespace. There's nothing to install. There are no patches to worry about. No upgrades needed. They take care of all of that for you. This is why I have used Squarespace for years because there's so many things I don't want to have to worry about when I have an idea or a project that I want to get out to the world. Why waste time being bogged down in settings pages and on FAQs and in different types of DNS and hosting and all that nonsense, Squarespace have got it covered and their plans start at just $12 a month for this full package. You can sign up for a trial with no credit card required by going to squarespace.com and then use the offer code INC to get 10% of your first purchase and to show your support for this show and the pen addict. We thank Squarespace for their support today. Squarespace, make your next move, make your next website.

Brad Dowdy: All right, so we have a little bit of Ask TPA today where I'm going to do a lot of reading. Myke, you're going to do a lot of listening. I'm going to do a lot of self-reflecting because I got a lot of feedback on my comments about letter writing. And I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. I was a little extreme in my feelings. And people let me know that it's not really the case, Brad. You should think about this other side of the story here a little bit, which I've done. And I have three comments I want to read and they kind of all say the same thing, but they say it in a little bit different way. So I'm going to add them in. So this first one is from NDRWCN and I forgot to grab his name from the Slack room. So he says, you mentioned in your latest podcast, this was two episodes ago, because we didn't have time to get to this last week, that you don't write because you're not good at it. Further, that those who are good at it are good because they don't have to work at it. Speaking from a background as a musician in a current weekly practice of preaching every Sunday, I can tell you that it's because a good musician or preacher has to put so much work into their respective craft that they make it look easy. Thinking through structure is the key. How does a piece of music rhetoric need to be structured? Know the structure, and then it's a matter of slotting in what is appropriate. So I believe that you or anyone can become a competent letter writer. It's a matter of thinking about the structure and to know how it will work for you. So these are great points.

Brad Dowdy: It's definitely practicable and workable and something you can get better at. Not really a you either have it or you don't kind of situation. you know, I know, I got a lot more feedback from NDRWCN on this as well. I've read through it and it's really good. And then our friend Mary Collis added, she says, as for the letter writing question, I think the best letters like the best books and movies are the ones that dive right into the action. So this is on the topic of how do you start a letter? She goes, I forego the setup, icebreakers, and immediately jump into the story of what's going on in my life. Those are the letters I love to read and the ones that I like to write. Your reader will learn about you through your stories, just like we learn about characters as we progress through a novel or a film. I think writing morning pages every day helps me with this. Get out of bed, open the journal, start writing. It takes practice like anything. So that's another good point, right?

Brad Dowdy: Don't worry about the setup and how you're going to start. Just start. Start with the meat, right? Don't start with the, hey, how's the weather? That's what we were joking about. How was the weather five days ago? Yeah, but I think the thing

Myke Hurley: is like for some people, especially me, like those icebreaker-y things lead into the bigger stories. I get what Mary's saying, but she can do this because she's practiced in telling the big stories, but that's real tricky.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, but that's what, okay, it's Andrew, so thank you, Jim, in the chat room because I forgot to grab the name, the first bit. You know, it's practice. You know, he has a structure that he goes through to write a piece of music or to write a sermon that says, you know, here's the kind of the structure, my framework for writing this letter. So this last one kind of sums it all up, and this is from Mary, but a different one. She says, now, she'd written me a nice email, and she says, now I get to the part where I complain. Just kidding. However, I did want to comment on your discussion of letter writing. Brad, at one point in the conversation, you said that the best letter writers don't have to think about what they write. I consider myself a decent letter writer, and I certainly think about what I write. I don't know about other letter writers, but I often plan out my letters before I write them. I brainstorm for ideas. I try to think of what will appeal to the specific person to whom I'm writing. I sometimes write a mini outline. At times, I even write a rough draft. Maybe this is overkill, and I don't do it all the time, but I don't think that good letters are spontaneous and easy productions. I know that's not what you were trying to say. She says, I suspect that letter writers often do put a lot of thought and effort into their letters construction, and it's the work that it takes that makes it hard to commit to. I've been writing letters consistently since I was a teenager, and I'm a college English instructor. For me, letter writing is still hard work, and that's why I don't do it as often as I like. While I know that you didn't mean to say that letter writing is some sort of natural talent that only the gifted can participate in, I just want to reiterate that letter writing is just like any other skill that can be improved with practice. While it gets easier, it's never easy to write a truly thoughtful letter. And this wraps up her point, which I think is great. She says, I think putting pressure on ourselves to write a great letter unfortunately just keeps us from writing it all. I mean, that's speaking to me right there. Instead of feeling pressure to write a perfect letter, it's better to think about how happy the receiver will be to get a letter or postcard at all, no matter how bad we think the letter might be. I try to keep this in mind when I'm uninspired or don't know how to start. I just say hi and go from there. The most important thing to remember is that sending a letter, no matter how small or imperfect, makes a bigger difference in another person's life than we might realize. The receiver knows the effort it takes and that effort makes the gift that much more special. Even a small note shows that we stopped our lives to think about them, to write it down, and send it to them. That's the most meaningful and important aspect of letter writing.

Brad Dowdy: So I think she nailed it.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I think so too.

Brad Dowdy: I mean, like, I agree with every bit and like, now I'm going to have to go write letters and not sweat the actual writing of letters part. It's like, just do it from a place of freedom and be unburdened in the pressures to do such a good job writing a letter that you're not going to sit down and actually do it. Right? So I thought the feedback on my commentary was amazing. And I definitely have taken a lot of this to heart and get a lot of, you know, what everyone's saying. And this is why our listeners are so awesome that we can have these conversations. I think it's really great that someone would take the time to respond to a comment we made on the show. And I think there were several more, you know, other similar types of feedback that we got for this. So I think it's very cool. So this is a wonderful feedback and kind of has me, you know, a little bit excited to maybe start trying my hand at a little bit more letter writing. I put you on

Myke Hurley: task here, buddy. You've been...

Brad Dowdy: I know, I know.

Myke Hurley: You ain't got no

Brad Dowdy: choice now. I like it. I like it. All right. So that's all the Ask TPA I brought for today. I wanted to give the letter writing feedback their own section here because it was so good. So thank you all for writing in.

Myke Hurley: So you can obviously email, was it hello at penaddict.com? Yep. That's for this kind of long form feedback. That's where to do it for shorter form feedback, which has recently doubled in availability of size. You can tweet with hashtag ask TPA and you can send in your questions that way. It's now easier than ever because you have more space to pontificate. If you want to find our show notes for this week, relay.fm slash penaddict slash 283. I expect a lot of lively feedback about this week's episode, which of course we will welcome. If you want to find Brad online, he is at dowdyism on Twitter and penaddict on Instagram. I am at imike, I-M-Y-K-E. Thanks again to our sponsors, Harry's and Squarespace, and we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.