The Pen Addict 211/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	211
Title:	Running Out Of Coal
Release Date:	June 29th, 2016
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	Ed Jelley
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 211
Audio File:	Audio Episode 211
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 211
Length:	7171 min <br />1.183 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

The Pen Addict

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 211. Today's show is brought to you by Harry's. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Mr. Brad Dowdy. How are you, Michael? I am fine and dandy, my compadre.

Ed Jelley: Good, that's good to hear. And hopefully our third compadre this week, our good friend Mr. Ed Jelly, is fine and dandy too. How are you, Ed? Good. I'm pretty fine and dandy. Good. This is the fine and dandy show today. This is going to be a fine and dandy show, that's right. So, I'm excited to have you on, Ed. This is going to be a good show, not just, we're going to talk about some stationery stuff, we've got some follow-up things, but we really wanted to get you on from a tweet you sent us a couple weeks ago that has us all, everybody wondering and questioning and having some good conversations around, you know, blogging and all that fun stuff.

Stationery Crisis

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, there's like an existential crisis going on in the stationary world. Everyone's like, when do I, we'll get into it later, but sorry, everybody. Sorry for making you think.

Ed Jelley: I know, right? So, when we first, the first time we had Ed on, it was like, how to get started in stationary blogging. So, now we're going to have Ed on how to stop stationary blogging.

Myke Hurley: And the cycle's complete.

Ed Jelley: Yeah, it's going to be, we're going to have a good bookend here, so that should be fun. But no, it's going to be a good conversation and one I know Myke and I are looking forward to and the listeners are looking forward to. So, let's get a little bit of follow-up. We tend to do this, Ed, because Myke lives so far away and when we get the new field notes, I tend to get them first and I give my thoughts and then we wait a week for Myke's to show up. Then he gives his thoughts. Ed, do you have the byline edition? Are you, you're.

Brad Dowdy: I bought two packs like a, like a normal person, but I accidentally opened both of them. So, I don't know what happened.

Ed Jelley: Way to go. You're, you're not a true field nut then, which is probably a good thing. I don't know. It's a, it's a thing. It's a thing. So, Myke, you got yours in. I want to, I want to hear about it.

Myke Hurley: All right. So, my subscription arrived and then today the additional two packs that I bought arrived as well. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, I found it and I tweeted a picture to you. It's in the little, well, I guess what would be where they would kind of put the practical applications. Right. Um, they have like a bunch of terms by journalists. So, I'm trying to find, what are they called? Talk like Ben Bradley is the, is the heading. Was he the guy who wrote the little newspaper that went inside? Or am I missing something else here?

Ed Jelley: No, the little newspaper that went inside was from a story from like the 1800s.

Myke Hurley: All right. Well, let's forget about that then. But they've got like a bunch of little terms that are used in journalism. And then there's also on the other page, there is like a common proof reading thing. There's loads of stuff in here. Like source guidelines. Like how to judge on and off the record. Which I found really interesting and preferred to the regular practical applications. Like I like it when they do this. Like with the national crop and stuff where they actually have information about the crop that is being spoken about or kind of highlighted by each individual edition. Right. Um, so the paper is really great. Uh, you might need to help me out a little bit with differences here, but it feels thicker. It's one of the most fountain pen friendly field notes that I've used. Like I was using like my music nib and stuff and it's barely pleading through. So I, I've personally, I'm really happy with the paper. I think it's fantastic. Um, I am surprised how much I love the format. Like the size of them, I think is superb. And I've been using it over the last couple of days on my desk when taking notes on shows and stuff. And it's kind of fantastic for me. And the reason being is once I edit, so I take notes like timestamps of the points that I need to edit in the show. I then need to refer to those when I'm actually editing the show. So what I typically do is stand the notebook up just below my monitor. So I'm able, so I'm not like framing my neck down to keep checking the times. So because of the really long format of these and because the cardboard sticks out at the bottom, it kind of stands up quite nicely against my iMac. Like I kind of prop it behind something and I'm able to kind of pick off my notes real easy. So it's been really good at that. Like it's just, I don't know, it just, it just fits quite nicely for the use case that I would use it for anyway. Uh, I really like the pocket on the inside, as you said, I think that's just a nice little touch. Um, it's kind of weird and wonderful this edition, which reminds me of arts and sciences. Like it's a good format for a specific use case and it's different. And I, and I think that's why I like it. Uh, and plus it comes with a really cool sticker, which is immediately taken home on my iPad.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. Yeah. I saw that. That was a good, good placement, sir. Very well done. So Ed, what do you think about this edition?

Field Notes Notebooks

Brad Dowdy: Um, I like it. It's not pocketable. I don't know. I haven't carried a field notes book in my pocket and I don't know, ages they get thrown in a bag. So I think this is pretty cool. Um, I like the paper a lot. It's nice and smooth. Like Myke said, it's good with a fountain pen. Um, I think this is like a next to my phone at work or, uh, computer at work kind of thing for me or shopping lists. I think that's the two, two top uses for me. But, um, I'm into it. I like it. I know people like, Oh, it doesn't fit in my pocket. I'm out. And I, it doesn't fit in the leather cover I bought. So I'm out, but I like it. I wish that this paper was in the steno pad.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. That's what makes me, I was, I was thinking about this before the show about the sticker, Myke. And I was saying to myself, well, I think they'll, they'll sell this sticker as a stock item before they'll sell this notebook as a stock item because it completely bastardizes the steno book, right? They're the, essentially this for the same use case. So one of them is going to have to go like either they retire steno and do this. I don't see these living side by side. Like if they made this a stock issue, do you? I don't think they'll make this a stock issue. I don't think so either.

Myke Hurley: This, it's got too much about it that makes it fun. And if you made this into a stock, you'd have to take away most of the fun elements. So like when they turned, uh, night sky into the, is it pitch black? I think they call it, they took away like the reticle and they took away the holographic kind of solar system on it. So that it just made it real plain and simple. If you took away all of the fun parts of this one, like all of the journalism references and stuff like that, it ends up just being a bigger steno pad. And I don't think that that's really the fun of the edition.

Ed Jelley: Plus, uh, the steno pad is Jim's favorite. So I, I, I don't know if that's going away. One, one bit of feedback I got on the extension of the cover flap. Um, do you remember, uh, Gabe Bullard did an article on us back, uh, when, um, the, the magazine, uh, Marco Arment's, um, digital magazine, he did an article. Um, he's a journalist by trade. So he says what I, what that does for me is when I'm out and about and I'm standing up, I, I generally don't have anything to rest the notebook on. So that part sticks in my chest and that allows me to get to the bottom line of the page, which I thought was an interesting, like use case. So maybe there's actually a practical reason that it's like that. So just, just the thought certainly made me think, I mean, you know, it's not something that many people would use or I would use or, or see, you know, useful, but, uh, he was like, yeah, it absolutely helps for me to get to the bottom of that page. So pretty cool.

Myke Hurley: Anything that helps journalists make sense of this edition, please. Yes. But I, I really like it. I really, really like it a lot. Um, and I'm sometimes I get overexcited and buy extras and wish I didn't buy extras, but this time I'm really happy that I bought extras because I could see myself flying through some of these.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. So I said, I haven't been buying extras either. And I said last week, I probably wouldn't. I think I'm going to get one more pack of these because I've found myself reaching for it on my desk. It actually works well for some of the reviews. Like I did, um, the Y studio ballpoint review with it the other day. And I was like, Oh, this is really kind of a cool, just a little jot pad for a review format for a couple of pictures because it's, it's, it's pretty. And it looks good in pictures and things like that.

Myke Hurley: Uh huh. So thumbs up from me.

Ed Jelley: Mm hmm. Yes. I think thumbs up from, from, from all of us. So, um, speaking of looking pretty in pictures, I was on, uh, I was on the YouTube. Did I look good, Myke? I've only, I haven't watched the whole thing yet. Oh my God.

Ed Jelley: The eye rolls I do in there. Like when I, when I, so when, when I'm podcasting, you don't get to see me. So when I'm actually talking, I'm, I was like, I was talking to, um, Matt Armstrong. He does a YouTube video series called currently inked where you get someone on talks about the, the pins they currently have inked up. Well, I'm sitting like exactly where I podcast. So as I'm talking to you right now, my hands are in the air, you know, making some kind of movement. My eyeballs are looking all over the room and I forget. I'm actually doing those things. Talking to Matt, except I'm on video. So it looks a little awkward. I was cracking up through the whole thing. Cause my, my facial expressions, especially my eyes were tripping me out.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. It's a video is a different thing. It's a, it's a whole different beast. And I know Ed, we're going to talk, you've been doing some bit more video recently. We'll talk about that in a little bit, but I'm looking forward to watching this. I saw it this morning when I sat down to do the show prep and I haven't gotten the time to look at it, but did you enjoy the video experience overall? Totally. Loved it. Cause I'm always nagging you to do video.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. I loved it. I would absolutely do it. It's one of the most time consuming things to do though. It's extraordinarily time consuming, you know, just, um, just a plan and edit and all that stuff. If I did it, it would be pretty raw, like no editing type of stuff. That would, that would be the only way I could function it. Like in my, my workflow, as far as, uh, time requirements. So, which I'm okay with, you know, I could, I could swing that. So I'll think about it. Now, Ed's recently posted a video and I'm going to do something so evil. Myke, are you ready?

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Jay Herbal Ink

Ed Jelley: Ed, can you tell us the name, name of this Jay Herbal ink you just reviewed? No. Come on, man. Uh, it's on you. You, you posted it. So I'm going to make you pronounce it. And then me and Myke will attempt our butchering of it. Cause this is like, this looks like the hardest ink name to pronounce that I've ever seen.

Brad Dowdy: I think it's Karub.

Brad Dowdy: Day chip bra. I don't know. Couldn't tell you. I am not French enough for that name at all. So I'm the brown one. It's called the, you pronounce it the brown one, the brown sparkly one, right?

Myke Hurley: Does this one have sparkles in it? Yeah. Yeah. Brad, do you want to give it a go? I was going to go, uh, Karube de Chifre. See, I would go for Karube de Chifre. Uh, that sounds pretty good. I'm pretty, I'm pretty confident about the Chifre part. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: He's closest to France though, geographically. So I think he's got the, he's got the advantage.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. I, I, I kind of liked that. You're like the, uh, what was the villain, uh, villain's name in, uh, in one of the Bond movies? Yeah. That's why I'm going for it. It's Le Chifre. Right. Yeah. Is, was it spelled the same? No idea. It was just, it was just, that's what it sounds like to me. Cause I watched that, watch that one all the time. 100% where I got the inspiration to say it that way. Okay. So I'm not drunk yet. It's only 10, 20 here. Give me an hour. So tell us, tell us about this ink. Ed, are you doing so recently, like in the past, you've done some work for, um, uh, Exacompto. Is that it? Exacompto? Uh, Exaclare. Exaclare. Exaclare. But Exacompto is one of their brands. Yeah. So that's where I was getting confused. So you've done some work for Exaclare, which is their brand. They're the U.S. distributor for Rodia, Claire Fontaine, Jay Herbal, some things like that. So is this part of that, uh, were you doing some, uh, product stuff for them?

Brad Dowdy: Um, the one I posted wasn't because I had to do a different one for me than for them. Um, so I did one for them that's on their YouTube channel, which is a bit longer and a little bit more involved. And, um, I did a video for a waterproof notebook they have coming out. So, uh, I figured I'm, I have all this stuff set up. I might as well just make a couple of videos for myself. Um, well, I have the lights and cameras and everything all ready to go.

Ed Jelley: So tell us about this ink as it relates to like the, uh, Emerald de Chivore and some of the other ones that they've done. How do, what do you think about it?

Brad Dowdy: Um, it's pretty close. I'm not big on Brown in general, so, uh, I like it. It's definitely interesting. It's definitely worth the 1670 name. Um, I found that the gold flakes settle a little bit quicker than they do in the green and the blue and the red. Um, so it was a little harder to get the shimmer out, uh, especially in a fountain pen. But, um, I mean, if you like the other inks and you've been waiting for a Brown one, uh, definitely check it out.

Myke Hurley: It looked red to me. Um, it's only now in you saying this, do I know that it's Brown?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It's like, they call it a reddish Brown Brown, Brown, Brown red.

Ed Jelley: I saw very little sparkles like in your video, but I did enjoy, and I didn't necessarily like the dark Brown, but I did like the shading of when it, when the ink got thin. Um, and some of that red came through. I thought that looked really nice.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, it's definitely cool. Um, I like it. I know a lot of people were hoping for a purple, um, which would be really cool. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens next year. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even think about that. I could see that happening for sure. Um, but yeah, no, I, I pretty much work for them once a year. They get their marketing budget re-upped and then they give me a call and it's always fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

J.M. Writing

Myke Hurley: And I wanted to ask you in the video that you put on your site, uh, you write out J.M. and then you write out the whole name of the ink. How many tries did it take you to get the whole name on one piece of paper?

Brad Dowdy: That was all one shot, one shot deal.

Myke Hurley: No way. See, cause I could imagine like me doing it and ending up not having enough space for the final E starting over again.

Brad Dowdy: You know, you gotta get smaller as you go or else you're like, ah, I'm going to have to do this whole thing over again. So there's, there's pretty good motivation to get it right the first time.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. I laughed when I saw you put this in the, in the show notes, Myke, cause I had the exact same thought and I could see Ed adjusting on the way down. I was like, oh, this is looking great. There's no way he's getting this whole thing in there. I really committed with that gigantic C. Yeah. Well, those folded nips will get you. It's not like you can write tiny with that.

Myke Hurley: Oh no. So I've never used a folded nib and like just looking at that, I mean, it was one of my things that I really wanted to try Atlanta, but I never got the chance. Um, how long does it take the ink to dry? Cause it basically looks like you're just pouring in ink onto a page. Like how long does it take something like that to dry? I'm pretty sure it's still wet. And I did that like a week ago.

Brad Dowdy: Um, a long time. Don't count on it drying and in any reasonable amount of time. Cause it's like you said, it's literally just pouring ink on a page. It's not even like a paintbrush. It's like, um, it's just like dumping it. And then the paper gets all wrinkly because it's soaking wet. Yeah. I could see that happening. It was starting to like crunch up. Oh, but yeah, it's so crunchy. And I usually just rip them and then throw them out because I don't know, nothing to do with them. And the best is when you do a couple in a row. Cause then you have 10 pieces of paper with puddles on it on your desk that you're trying not to knock into.

Ed Jelley: That's awesome. All right. So you alluded to like shooting the videos and doing some work for J.R. Bond and, and as part of your, your deal. So I think we should, we should get into the, uh, to the, the burnout and the blogging topic that, uh, that we had you on here to talk about. Uh, before that, let's talk about our good friends at Harry's Myke.

Myke Hurley: It's time to stop compromising on your shave. It's time to get started with Harry's. If you haven't yet made the switch, I bet that you're either paying too much for a comfortable shave or you've settled for a lower quality razor. Neither of these things are acceptable when Harry's is here to offer you something you've never had before. A great shave at a fair price. It's simple. Get the best of both with Harry's. They have German engineered five blade cartridges that will give you a close, comfortable shave without cuts or razor burn. They make their own blades. That's how they guarantee the quality of those blades. They'll give you a full refund. If you're not happy over 1 million people will switch to Harry's because of these reasons, quality guaranteed, great razors, comfortable shave, and they're a fantastic price as well. It's about half the price that you'll see from other big brand blades on average and everyday shaver says $150 each year on blades. When they use Harry's, it's so simple to get started for just $15. You can get a razor, moisturize and shave cream, and three razor blades. That is the Truman set. Mr. Brad Dowdy, have you had any Harry's escapades in your life recently? Yeah, I have actually. We don't plan this. I just can feel it.

Ed Jelley: We don't, but there's always something. So I followed through with the Father's Day gift thing, remember? You know, the Harry's box set that they did. So we gave it to my father-in-law, whose name is Harry, and he opened it up. He's like, oh, this is great. I enjoyed it. And he says, I've seen this on TV. He says, these are supposed to be the best blades, right? And I was like, man, he's got the, Harry's has got the marketing down. Like, he doesn't listen to the podcast, so he wouldn't know what Harry's is. But he knew that Harry's had very good blades, so he was excited to get it and try it out. So it's good that they're kind of getting the word out, you know, in, you know, non-traditional formats. You know, I've seen him do some other advertising and things like that. So I thought that was pretty cool that he had at least heard of them. And then his comment was, oh, these are supposed to be the best blades. So I thought that was pretty cool. There you go. I can agree with that statement.

Myke Hurley: The word is on the street.

Ed Jelley: So Harry says Harry's blades are excellent.

Myke Hurley: That's good to know. It's time to stop overpaying for a great shave. Go to harrys.com and they will give you $5 off. If you type in the coupon code PENADDICT at checkout with your first purchase. That's H-A-R-R-Y-S dot com. Coupon code PENADDICT at checkout for $5 off. Thank you so much to Harry's for their continued support of this show and RelayFM.

Ed Jelley: All right. So we started talking to Ed on the Twitter bot when we were looking for questions for an episode a few weeks ago. And, you know, everyone's asking, what about this pen? What about this paper? How do you use this? And Ed goes, hey, what do you do when you feel like you're burning out of writing a blog? I was like, well, that's turned a corner pretty quickly. It's kind of ugly. No, but I thought it was awesome because, you know, I've gone through this. I've gone through it publicly here on the show and in the past on the blog. So why don't you let me give you the floor for a minute to kind of give a little bit of background, you know, the impetus for the tweet. It's obviously something you've been thinking about for a while, I imagine. So just kind of give us an idea of what's going on and what your thought process is right now with blogging.

Brad Dowdy: So I think that, like, I started this when I was in college. I didn't have, like, a ton of other stuff going on. And, you know, I thought it was fun. I built an audience, get to go on podcasts. It's gotten me jobs. And then other things kind of start creeping their way in. And you're just like, do I like doing this anymore? Is this, like, something that I should spend, you know, five to ten hours a week on? Or is it, you know, am I doing this because I feel obligated, like, because I have sponsors and because I don't want my audience to disappear? And then you kind of sit back. And then I started thinking about how, you know, other than Kickstarter, there's a pretty overwhelming lack of, like, new products in the stationary world. Like, I'm four years and, like, 370 posts in. And it's like, I don't want to review stuff that's just something in a different color. And I don't have the type of income to buy every Mont Blanc limited edition. So it's like kind of getting that where can I go from here and starting to feel like you're repeating yourself. And then when you get other things going on, like, I'm a staff writer for Everyday Carry. And that's, like, that's my second job. So, you know, now either I can spend more time doing articles and posts there that I'm compensated for. Or I can force myself to get a post up a week about something that I'm not feeling super thrilled about. So I'm kind of like, you know, last two months was, like, maybe one or two posts. I mean, I did get married. Congratulations. Thank you. And back in August, I bought a house. So I did, like, all this really super adult stuff. And that takes a lot of time. And then if you have other things going on, you're like, wow, that takes a lot of time. And then, like, the thing that you used to love gets pushed back because you might not feel that it's, like, the best use of time. Or it's not giving you that feeling that you're like, oh, this is great. I can't wait to do this. And, oh, by the way, you have a day job, too. You've. Oh, yeah. I'm there. I'm there right now. Oh, yeah. And I have a day job. So I have my day job. I have Everyday Carry. I have EdJelly.com. And I just started working at my local coffee roaster on Saturdays because I'm a maniac. Yes, you are a maniac.

Myke Hurley: Question for you, Ed. Yes. Why do you write at Everyday Carry?

Brad Dowdy: Well, I write there because, number one, I'm interested in it. It's always been kind of like a hobby of mine. And about a year and a half ago, almost two years at this point, they asked me to write for their site. And it was a good deal. And getting paid to write is still kind of crazy to me because it's like, Brad, you never thought you were going to quit your day job and just do stationery. And, Myke, same thing with you where it's like, oh, podcasting, this is my job now. And now it's like, oh, I can write about things that I care about and take pictures that go out to this huge audience every single day and get paid for it. That's a no-brainer for me.

Ed Jelley: Yeah, I think that's – hearing you talk about that, it's focusing on what drives you the most right now. And, you know, doing the ADC stuff, you know, one of the things – we're going to talk about this later because I have a question from a listener. It's one of the things where edjelly.com is a standout, you know, not just from the content and the writing, but your photography is always so popular and so well done. And that really shows in that ADC community, right? That's kind of how that site's built on. So it's a really good flow and focus for you. I mean, it seems like a really good fit. And, you know, I've known Bernard since – gosh, about since he started the blog and seeing that site blow up. I imagine that's a – has a lot come out of that for you, not just money, but just from, like, you know, other people seeing your work and reaching out and things like that.

Brad Dowdy: I mean, it's cool, like, just from a personal standpoint because, like, I never thought I'd be shooting a Leatherman ad or, like, Victorinox Swiss Army. It's, like, that's – that's, like, the brand. It's, like – and then if somebody trusts you enough to do, like, the photos for something they're paying for, it's, like, oh, this is cool. Like, this is, like, justification for sure. Like, super, super great. Right. And, I mean, just even, like, the sense of accomplishment and the money that goes with it. I hate to keep bringing up money because I probably sound like I'm, like, oh, give me money. But, like, it's a pretty strong motivator when you can turn a hobby into a job. And it's, like – You know, I'm not saying it's, like, oh, I only write for EDC because they pay me. It's, like, you take this interest. They hit me up because of my website, because of edgelly.com. And now it's, like, springboarded into a whole other thing.

Money Aspect

Ed Jelley: So, that's one of the questions we're going to focus on here in a minute is the money aspect. And that's hugely important. And we never talk about it because it's awkward to talk about, right? But it's probably number one most important thing on a lot of our lists when you look at the amount of time and commitment and effort you're putting into things. And so, I think, you know, like, what you were telling to me, you know, you're seeing those results from, like, everyday carry. But you built this thing at edgelly.com around the stationary blog. And I've had this – when, you know, I've stepped away in the past, I have this feeling of guilt. Like, I'm letting people down other than myself.

Brad Dowdy: That's the problem I mainly run into is, like, I have people that are, like, have me in their RSS feed and, like, you know, follow me on Twitter and like me on Facebook. And it's, like, I feel like I owe you guys, like, you're here for a reason. I'm, like, I brought you here. And then it's, like, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to maybe take, like, two months off. And then, like, I watch my page views tank and I look at my Amazon revenue and it's, like, not great. Granted, we're not in, like, a super spending season, but it's, like, it's still – that's what supports the site and that's what, you know, makes me be able to sustain it.

Ed Jelley: Right now is the single worst time to look at stats because summertime, it tanks hard. It's probably, like, 25% down easily just in traffic, revenue, things like that in the blogosphere just because the summertime is that way. You know, people are out and about doing other things other than reading blogs.

Myke Hurley: Let me focus on the money bar a moment. Because I think that it is an interesting issue and there's something that I always feel worth clarifying is when you start something like this, blogging, podcasting is what I can speak to, I don't think that it should ever be started with the intention of making money. I think if you start out with that intention, you'll probably end up in a not great situation by the end of it. But that's how I always look at it. These things that I believe should come from a source of interest or intrigue or passion or just because, you know, maybe you'd love to do it one day, but you never do it and immediately try and find money. You know, like, I have people contact me and they're like, oh, I want to start a show, but I need advertisers. And it's like, well, let's think about this is that that's not how it works because you there isn't money just floating around to be given to everyone. Like there is only money available for a small selection of things.

Brad Dowdy: And the thing is, you have to work for it, too. I mean, it's not like I started posting ads on day one. I was posting four reviews a week until I got enough views. I'm like, oh, my God, I got 10,000 views this month or 8,000 or whatever my first month was. I'm like, this is crazy. And it's like I didn't run out and go look for advertisers. I didn't start monetizing anything until about a year ago.

Myke Hurley: Money is only available for a small set of people. And even then, there's not an infinite amount. There is an amount of money that would be available to everyone. You know, so even then, even if you're in a successful situation, you're in a great position, it doesn't necessarily mean money is going to come to you. So money only really should come into this once you've matured into what you're doing and you have a good idea of what your future is going to look like and you know what your statistics are like and you know what your trends are like. Because then you're also being fair to the company or individual that's giving you money to promote their product, to do advertising or to your readers in a membership style, which that's a whole other thing to talk about maybe another time. But that's, yeah. So the money thing is awkward. But if you're coming at this wanting to make money straight away, I think that maybe it's worth just slightly reevaluating what your goals are.

Ed Jelley: And Ed's someone who's done it right. And there's a group of stations, pretty much every stationery blog that's in existence right now does it right. The ones that I've gotten emails, I'm sure Ed's gotten emails, where, hey, I'm thinking about starting a stationery blog. How do I get stuff or how do I make money from it? You never hear from those people again, right? You know, Ed and Anna and myself and Myke and, you know, dozens of other people I'm leaving off. Never. No one started this thinking I'm going to make money out of this blog. I sure didn't.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. You don't get like a box delivered to your door with like free stuff. It's like you just post. I started a blog and like a box full of $2,000 worth of pen stuff doesn't just show up. You got to kind of work for that.

Ed Jelley: Right. And it takes a long time and consistency and effort. And, you know, that's what, you know, you've shown Ed over the years. And, you know, what do you, I mean, what, what do you want to do with, with edjelly.com? Is there something, you know, is it something that it's time to move on from? Is it something where you want to reboot it? Have you had those thoughts on, you know, what's the path going to be? Because like we, we mentioned before, the hardest thing I think is, is that guilt of like, you're letting people down, but you know, you also have to look out for number one, you know, you just got married, you just bought a house, you have a job, you have a bunch of good side gigs going. And where do things break down for your stationary blog?

Brad Dowdy: I think like the problem is that you go full steam out the gate and then you keep full steaming. And then like, you kind of run out of coal in a way. Like I, you know, everybody has their own preferences. And then it's like, are you reviewing stuff? Like just because you have credit to a retailer or are you doing it because like, wow, this is really cool. Or do you kind of get like jaded where it's like, yeah, that's cool. But like, it's close to this, which I already have two of. And it's like, I don't want to get it again just because it's in green this time. And it's like, I feel like once you get a couple of years in, you kind of know what you like and know what you don't like. And that like exploration, like a type of, you know, excitement starts to taper off because it is, you know, I don't want to say it's just pens and paper because it's obviously a very big deal to everybody listening myself and you and Myke too. But, you know, even you must get a little bit, you know, unenthused with new products that are not necessarily new. And I'm sure you know what you like. You have your top five pens. Like you've gone through so many to get there. And it's like a lot of those have been in that list for a long time. And it's like, yeah, you're trying. But like, you know, you like that.

Ed Jelley: Yeah, we've had that conversation. It's like, what do I actually adjust in this list? There's nothing that's been created or new in the market that's forced a bunch of change. And, you know, then I also look at it from the aspect of I still enjoy like I'm one that I've and I've always been this way. I'll review the different colors of the gel ink pen. I don't know. It's just like a thing that I enjoy. But it's not everyone's style either.

Ink Reviews

Brad Dowdy: Right. I mean, I've done that, too. But then it's like you do a couple of those and then you start to feel like you're repeating yourself. And then it's like your content. Like if you don't feel like your content is valuable, you're not going to put that effort in. Like if I feel like I have to put a post up, I know it's not going to be great. Yeah. It definitely shows in your work. Like it's a reflection of how you're feeling about it. Like the other day, like I mean, it was two weeks ago. I posted a review of a liquid flare, the paper mate liquid flare, because I found one in my desk at work and I'm like, this thing is great. Like I'm going to post about this. I'm going to write a review right now. I'm going to take a picture and I'm going to post it because I really like this. It's not a fountain pen. It's not anything. It had a broken clip. It was half of you sitting in the drawer. But I'm like, this is cool. I like this. And then that kind of sparked me to go write a review. I mean, I have a Sailor 1911 medium nib sitting in my bag that like is way overdue. And like a couple of pens that are, you know, a hundred plus dollars that I'm like, this little dollar pen that's been previously used sitting in a desk at work kind of sparked me more than like the obligation that I have to do this other review on this pen that people like, oh my God, you have that pen. You haven't used it yet. What's wrong with you?

Ed Jelley: I think that's interesting though, because that's the most enjoyable post to read when you have that type of lightning strike moment. And it doesn't matter what the product is. It could have been one of the a hundred dollar pens that struck you in a way where you were able to communicate it in a different way than like a basic review that you've done for years. Right. So that's when you felt good about writing that post. But I know what you mean about, you know, the drudgery is a little bit strong of a word, but you know, there's those products that sit on the desk and you're like, I owe these reviews. I don't want to do them. And how am I going to, is it worth my time to spend to push through and get these reviews done? Or do I just kind of fly by the seat of my pants, see what strikes me at some point and, you know, write that post then. And, you know, that doesn't happen all the time. Right. I don't have that every day or every week, you know, where I have that lightning strike post that I feel like just so great about.

Ed Jelley: But, you know, like, like I've gotten into a place where I'm enjoying still like reviewing all the different things. And even if, you know, some things are similar to others or doing, you know, a bunch of ink reviews, which can get a little bit tedious, you know, I still enjoy talking about the different things, but I can totally see how there would just be like a breakdown of like, what is all this stuff and when am I going to do it? And if I don't have the motivation to do it, it's certainly going to come out, you know, on the post if I try to force myself to do it. And is that worth it? So it's these conversations in our head that we struggle with all the time. Right.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I mean, like you brought up ink reviews, like I haven't done one in months and like they always perform pretty well on my site, but I'm just like, I go up my back and read them. I'm like, these all say the same thing, except you sub out red for blue for black. Unless the thing is terrible. It's like, you know, you're writing the same thing. That's why I did that, those videos, because you can see it. It's more fun. It's more engaging for me. And like, I figured I could just get the stuff done. But then like, it goes back to that, that spark moment. It's like, all right, I could spend an hour like trying to like this pen and taking pictures. And then like, I get frustrated because the pictures aren't coming quite, you know, coming out quite how I want them to. And then like, I'll throw my camera down and I'll end up playing Star Wars Battlefront for like two hours because I just need to like get out of here and, you know, shoot a stormtrooper. So, you know, and then it's on the other hand, it's like, oh, well, I have like this list of stuff I could do for EDC and like, that's going to pay me. And like, that's a pretty good motivator. Right. So it's like, I could do that instead. So it's kind of hard to balance out. Like, if you're not really feeling something, like, do you force yourself to do it because you have an audience or do you kind of preserve your, you know, your own, now I'm not going to say sanity because I'm not losing my mind over pen reviews, but, you know, do you or do you preserve your passion and kind of build that up? Like, keep it in the tank until you find something that you really like and then use that effort on that. It might mean like you skip a week or you skip a month or whatever, but like, is it worth it? And then I'll look at my stats and they'll be like, oh, that's a bad month. Like, maybe I shouldn't have skipped it. And it's like this weird, like back and forth. And I don't know, it's kind of, it's kind of weird just to, to think about something that's like you running it. Right. You know, it's like, it's like your thing. So like, oh, I don't know anybody, anything. And then you're like, no, I do. I totally do. So it's, it's kind of weird just to have your own thing and to be able to do what you want with it and, and have that discipline or lack of driving you.

Ed Jelley: I know the couple of times I took a break before I was doing this full time, I had to stop cold Turkey. Like it was a hard break. Like it wasn't, let me try to do something once a week. Let me try to just, um, you know, you know, filter something in, let me keep up. You know, when I used to do the Inks Links post, you'll take a break and do that on Saturday. Just do that. And kind of kept my toe in it a little bit. And in the end, I just always had this feeling and to get, you know, back into it. And I think having those just hard, complete breaks, you know, helped me with that. You know, not everyone's the same, um, you know, to, to see how much I missed it or did I really miss it? I told Myke that when I took that second break, it was around the time, you know, it was also lifestyle and life changing moments for me when I was having kids, you know, that's when it was the hardest, um, for me. And I told Myke, you know, when I made the decision to take a break from the podcast that time that I was okay with not coming back. Like in my mind, it was the right decision. I needed to stop. Something had to give. Well, what gave was the blog and the podcast. But, you know, inside of me, I'm still this stationary nut and I love doing these things and I love talking to people and it ended up pulling me back on its own. Like it wasn't forced. It was like, okay, two months is up. Let me pull out the pen and paper and do this thing. It was like, I was ready to come back then. So I don't know if like, maybe like a short term break maybe helps and re-energizes you. Maybe it, it has clarity and maybe, you know, you focus on EDC or other things. So I don't know. It's, it's, it's such an individual thing, but you know, keeping yourself and your family and those things at the forefront, as long as those things are number one, the rest of this stuff tends to have a way of figuring itself out, even though it's kind of hard and difficult, uh, in the, in the short term.

Ed Jelley: All right, Myke. So I don't know if you have anything, uh, to add to that, but I want to get into these listener questions cause we have a lot. They were very interested in this topic. What do you think?

Myke Hurley: I have lots of thoughts, but they're going to come up.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. I think that's why I wanted to get into these cause they're very, uh, very much on the topics we want to talk about. So let's, uh, let's hear from Hutch first. He wants to know what do you, from ED, what do you think the stationary community is missing and what sort of voice do we not hear enough from our little world of stationary geeks? Do you have any thoughts on that, Ed?

Brad Dowdy: I mean, I think you gotta find something that makes you stand out from the rest of them. Like personally, I, I'm pretty heavy on photos and like, I've kind of made that my like area of interest. So all my posts have a bunch of photos and then other blogs might be more focused on like really great writing where it's like you write 1500 words about a pen that costs a dollar. And it's like, that's, you know, you're getting really nuanced reviews. And, um, you know, I also think that, uh, you have to balance new with old and kind of think of like, you know, the Lamy 2000 or the pilot vanishing point, like so many people buy those pens and those are my most popular reviews for a reason because, you know, you have to recognize what people want or want to read more about and then kind of cater to that, which is kind of hard to get into. Um, as far as what do we not hear enough from, I really don't know. We got a pretty good mix for such a small niche market.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. I feel real good about the, the stationary blogging community as a whole. It's, it's one of those, um, I don't know if you see it in the EDC community as much. Um, cause I, I talked to, uh, my friend Tony at everyday commentary, how, uh, uh, to, for the lack of a better term, how backstabby like the knife community can be. Um, we don't have that.

Brad Dowdy: That's a, that's a pun right there.

Ed Jelley: That was wonderful. Wasn't it? That was excellent. Uh, by me, good job by me. Um, but we don't have that in the stationary community. We all, I mean, I'll speak for myself, but I enjoy, you know, shining the light on others and sharing and answering questions and helping everyone out in the community that I can. Um, there's no, uh, competition, you know, like in the stationary community, I feel, and that makes it a happy place for everybody. I think that's always been the way. And I hope it stays that way.

Ed Jelley: So Heather, um, who is one half of the wonderful art supply geeks podcast had some really good questions. So she wants to hear about the mission of pen blogging and podcasting. What are we trying to accomplish? How does our love of stationary integrate with broader commitments to the world? Or maybe it doesn't, maybe it's just good, clean fun. Um, so what do you, what do you think about that? Uh, Ed, do you have any, any comments?

Brad Dowdy: Um, I think whenever you write a blog in general, it's important to have a mission statement, which I don't even know if I have, I think when I started, I wrote a post that said like, I want to deliver top quality reviews of pen, paper, and ink with, you know, top quality photographs to match. So people can get a better idea of what they're spending their hard earned money on. Um, and that was my mission going forward. But now like I've kind of got that in a, in a rhythm and, um, you know, I took notes on these questions. So I'm, I don't want to, I want to try to not just read off a list. But, um, when I started the blog, it was an excuse to use pens and paper and definitely an excuse to take more pictures. And, um, I found that I use pens and paper much less since finishing college. And like, I do get a little disappointed when I think about it. Um, but really the mission, I think like the fun is growing the site and seeing how far it can go. And, um, you know, if you want more page views, you got to get out there and promote it and write content and, you know, optimize it so that it does come up in search engines. And, uh, you know, I've learned a lot about just websites in general and internet presence and social media just from doing this. So it's had like a pretty enriching experience across the board because you learn a lot about, you know, something. So I started it just as for fun. Um, the mission was to do top, you know, do quality reviews. And now like, I'm not so sure other than growth, like what my real mission is. Do you have any thoughts on this, Myke? Many. I have a couple I want to add in.

Myke Hurley: Uh, I don't think that it's necessary to worry or be concerned in any way as to whether your pen blog contributes towards the world. I just don't, I just don't think that that is a thing. It's entertainment, you know, this is what the show is. Like people listen to the show because they find it entertaining primarily, I think. And there's information in it, which they enjoy. But I think people just like to listen to us talk about something that they enjoy. And I don't think that we need to worry too much about what our contribution is to the world outside of just providing something that is entertaining to people. I think that's in and of itself enough. Um, and then on the, the point of talking about mission statements and stuff like that, uh, my favorite, one of my favorite YouTube channels, uh, Wheezy Waiter, the guy Craig was posting daily videos. He used to do a lot like more comedic stuff. Then he turned into like a daily vlogger and he posted a video this week actually, as he wanted to go through some changes in the type of work that he was doing. And it came to him basically reaffirming what he is creating for. And so this is front of mind for me as well. And basically Craig is talking about in this video, which I'll put in the show notes about how he started to do this thing because he loved it. And, but he was a waiter, hence the YouTube channel name. And he was doing this on the side because he thought it would be cool to maybe try and get into this world. And then he started, then he found a real love for making these YouTube videos and he would do them and they became a, a way for him to like escape and a thought that maybe he could do this for a living one day. And then when it became his job, he then started just doing them to continue the, the idea of having the job, there was no ultimate goal again because the goal had been achieved. So then it was just like became the work and he's been struggling with doing this thing as his job. And then that becomes a job and losing sight of the overall reason as to why he does this stuff. So I found that really interesting, especially watching it like two days before we were going to start talking about this stuff because it makes me wonder as well. Like I, this is my job now. And every day, every day is the same, you know, ultimately there are different things that happen, but every day pretty much consists of talking with sponsors and that kind of stuff, preparing for a show, recording a show, editing like that. They are my tasks. Now, ultimately this doesn't bother me because everybody has a job and their job consists of similar tasks that they do every day. But I still love what I do, like flat out love what I do. Like I have had no, I've been doing this for nearly two years now. I have no feelings of burnout. I can't think of a time where I've ever not wanted to record a show where I'm just like, oh, I really just don't want to do this. You know, there have been times where I've been horribly jet lagged and too tired, but I've done it right. So that's like a different thing, but just like a regular day where I'm like, oh man, I don't want to do this show anymore. Like I don't feel like that. And that's partly because I'm very aware of those feelings in myself and I'm able to kind of curtail a lot of this stuff before it becomes a problem. Like I'm able to make changes to the show or like, you know, change up the format in some way that means it's exciting to me or I plow just straight into it and kind of get swept up inside of it. And then that makes me kind of reinvigorated. So I am thinking a little bit though about like why I do this because I like the idea of the mission statement and the goal.

Mission Statements

Ed Jelley: So yeah, I think Heather's last statement she made, she says, maybe thinking about a mission can be a source of energy when the spark of fandom sputters. Like we're addicted to the fandom part, right? And that means, you know, people come to us, people ask us questions, you know, that's Ed keeps talking about looking at the stats. That's the fandom part of it. You know, that's a thing like just like money. No one wants to talk about that. But the fandom is another thing that you're not talking about very much. You know, that's hard to give up to hard to give up those numbers and those clicks and those people, you know, those Twitter followers and Instagram followers and things like that. But what she's saying about a mission, I don't know if I've ever had a direct mission for the blog. I know when I started the blog, I was obviously not interested in making anything from it at all. And when I, at some point I decided to put Google AdWords on there or AdSense, I should say, ads, and I would donate that money every few months to Pens for Kids International. I just write them a check and it was very minimal money. It doesn't, didn't make, you know, much difference to me, but I thought it was good to send a pen to Pens for Kids and I would send them boxes of pens from time to time. But that organization kind of petered out in the U.S. So I've never really done anything since. And I do feel some guilt about that. Like I should do a little bit more and I can do a little bit more for just, you know, stationary as a whole, as, you know, you know, different charities, different school charities, things like that to help promote stationary and promote pens. So that's something I'm going to look at. And then separately, I think having a mission statement for the blog is probably a good thing just to kind of have a baseline to, to work from, if you will. So I thought those were really, really good questions. So this next question from Kevin Egan, he says, how do you and Myke know the difference between burnout and other forms of work overload, like stress, imposter syndrome, imposter syndrome, or balancing between work and family concerns? Have you ever thought about that, Ed, as a, you know, how everything all works together? Is it, are you just, you know, trying to do too much, stressing yourself out? And then that makes, gives you this negative view on, you know, things like, you know, dealing with the blog.

Brad Dowdy: Um, I don't think the blog has enough serious consequences, like to where I would let it get in the way. Right. Because like, I'm not going to like miss deadlines at EDC because that's like, you know, like I said, that's like a, that's like a second job for me. Right. And this is more of a labor of love than anything. Um, you know, with a little bit of money on the side, but like, if I'm, if it's like getting in the way and like ruining my new marriage or I'm like not walking the dog because like I need to go post about a pen, like, I don't think the implications are as serious for this. So like, I definitely think it's more of, um, more of a burnout on writing about stationary than a work overload. I mean, I'm, I'm a pretty busy guy, but like, I don't think this necessarily is the biggest factor in that. So it's like, it's easy to kind of be like, yeah, we're going to go to dinner or it's like, we're going to go somewhere this weekend. Like, I'm not going to be like, I got to write for the blog. So leave me alone and like slam my office door. So I think, I think it's like more so burnout than, than overload. If those are different. Yeah. I think they're absolutely different.

Ed Jelley: What do you think, Myke?

Myke Hurley: I think that there is a big difference between stress and overload and imposter syndrome and like the burnout thing. But I think some of them contribute towards each other. I think the difference is like, if you're stressed, then you're worried about something. The burnout means you just don't want to do it anymore. And an imposter syndrome is like way out on the other side. That is just like, I don't belong here. I think there are different feelings, but I think most of them can lead into burnout.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. I feel some of the stress since I'm newer in doing this for a living than you, Myke. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I'm afraid to say that doesn't go away though.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. I, and I don't expect it to. I stress.

Myke Hurley: It's just like any job. Sure. Any job is stressful. There are things that happen in a job and it just is a stress. It's a worry. I mean, the idea of being independent isn't to me no different than losing my job. Like the same stress is there, right? Like I could screw up and lose my job or I could screw up and lose my company. Like those, but those stresses are good because it makes sure it helps me inform the correct decisions. Exactly. But I don't think that there's any real difference between those things. I don't know different people look at them differently. I feel happy in that I can see those things as being similar.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. I think imposter syndrome was my big hang up when I was making the decision, not work and stress. And in family, I was like, am I really, you know, able to do this? Like would people, you know, believe in me or do I have the skill to do this and things like that? And I still fight some of that sometimes, but I've gotten, gotten better, gotten over some of those things, gotten over some of those hurdles. You know, things are starting to, to swim along pretty well as far as that goes. So, but I definitely think it's the thing. And there's definitely a difference in burnout from the, these other things. So a couple of, a couple of different questions here, not necessarily related to the burnout stuff, but a little bit related. Ed, what, this is from King of Bar. I got a bunch of these questions from the Slack channel. So thank you all of y'all for asking these. I'd be interested in the tension of using your pens as a tool for creation and the pure desire to use your pens. So this is, this is a weird question, but I found it very interesting.

Ed Jelley: What do you think?

Brad Dowdy: Um, like I know a lot of people are like writers or like I'm writing my novel or I'm, writing for fun or I write fictional short stories or non-fictional history pieces. I'm like, admittedly, I don't do that. Like, like at all. I'm not a, I wouldn't consider myself a creative writer. Um, I definitely write a lot of copy. I definitely write a lot of guides, uh, informational type stuff. And of course reviews. So, um, really the pens are kind of what I write about. So it's kind of like, uh, I don't know, I guess it's kind of meta where you're using a pen to write about pens. Um, but for me, like I feel totally lost if I don't have like a pad and a pen, like just open next to me on the desk. Because like right now it's just a mess of doodles everywhere in whether it's cursive or my block writing or just drawing little pictures. Like I find that I can let my brain kind of go instead of, I don't know. I don't really sit down with like a quill and a pad on the writing desk. I'm like, let me bang out 2000 words today. Like that's just not what I do. Like most of my writing is on mechanical keyboard. Um, which I know don't kill me, but, uh, most of my writing is on a keyboard.

Ed Jelley: Oh, we have tons of mechanical keyboard fans that listen to the show.

Brad Dowdy: So if anybody's wondering, it's a Nova touch TKL, uh, with the Topra switches. And I have, uh, the DSA, uh, Eve keycap set on there right now, just in case anyone's

Ed Jelley: wondering, do you have a picture of it in use? We won't put that in the show notes. We'll send, shoot that. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I'll send it over after. Yeah. Um, but I don't know for me, it's really, I just kind of use them as doodling tools and note taking, not so much a creative tool, even though, I mean, I guess it's being creative in its own way. It's not like, I don't know. You know what I'm, you know what I'm saying?

Ed Jelley: Yeah, no, I'm the exact, I, I 100% agree with everything you just said it for me in even more so it's just the pure desire to use my pens. Like I don't have this, this whole creation thing. I'm not doing necessarily creative writing, like you said, but I have to have these things around and handy and available and it doesn't matter the type of pen or pencil or paper or anything. It just has to be there and I find the desire to use different things at different times and, uh, focus on those and those things, um, you know, I really go for. What about you, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Um, I mean, the majority of my writing happens when I'm recording the shows, like just writing down little time codes and stuff. But what I have found myself doing more recently after I got over a different type of, uh, a different issue, right? Like I was going through a, I don't know what to do about pens anymore type issue. Um, I'm finding myself now with the desire to just pick up different things and use them every day. Like I'm out of my mechanical pencil phase for the time being. And today I'm using the Baron Frick Squire. And yesterday I was using a retro 51 and the day before that I was using the pilot M90. So I don't know. I feel like it goes in waves.

Uplifting End

Ed Jelley: All right. Uh, a few more questions. I want to get this one in and then we'll, uh, we'll end it on, we'll end it on an uplifting note with these final two questions. But, uh, and this one, this one could be uplifting depending on how we take it, but it's our good friend, Joey Feldman. And I don't think I sent you this one, uh, Ed, because I just got it this morning, but it's good. It's, uh, you'll have an answer for this cause it's a really straightforward and legitimate question. Have any of you guys really hated a product, but felt guilty or some reason that you gave it a decent review? I'll take this one first. Um, never. Uh, I mean, I've definitely hated products and I don't feel guilty about giving them bad reviews. I I've never felt guilty about calling it like it is. What I have done is I have not reviewed products because they're so bad and it would just be a crap fest if I did that. Now, some products deserve that and I've, and I've posted them before, but in general, like if anyone ever says like, well, I'm biased, I'm biased towards stationary and pens and paper. I'm going to find the good in a lot of things, no matter if they're not the best product for me right now. So if I have a bad product, I'm probably going to find something good about it. Maybe not, but I'm going to tell the truth either way. But I have absolutely sent products back to people with a letter or an email saying, I'm sending this back. It's really bad. Here's why. And if these things get fixed, you know, if it's a prototype, I'd be happy to take a look at it again. Um, I'm not just going to go out and destroy something for the sake of destroying it, but I've given plenty of bad reviews. I'll always give bad reviews. You're just going to see a preponderance of positive stuff because I can tend to find the positive in almost any stationary. There's never going to be complete trash. Um, you know, and some of it's fair. Some of it deserves that type of designation.

Ed Jelley: Nine times out of 10, there's going to be some positive in anything, but I will never do it out of feeling guilty either being, you know, the product was given to me. It makes zero difference. You know, if it's bad, it's bad. And I'm going to say it's bad.

Brad Dowdy: I don't think I can add anything to that. That's pretty much dead on. Like you kind of owe it to your readers to like, why would you lie? There's, there's no gain anything from like flubbing something. It's like, unless they're like, we're going to give you a million dollars. If you give us a good review, like maybe I'd think about it, but honestly, like there's no, like no free pen is going to make me say like, this is great. Yeah. There's no way. Like unless it's, you know, crappy.

Myke Hurley: I think there is a reason that many people would give a good review because it might be to a big company and they want more stuff from that company. So I don't take any products for review. I just don't do it.

Brad Dowdy: I think that's when you kind of have to, like, if you get something from a bigger company, you can kind of, like Brad said, highlight the positives without slamming it unless it's slam worthy. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not saying completely destroy your integrity by giving it a great review, but like, like Brad said, I'm not gonna repeat what he said a million times, but if something like, even if it's pretty crummy, there's still at least one or two decent things you can say. And then, you know, what do you have to lose by, by doing a bad, you know, advertisement unless like your whole entire career is running on it. And then you got to reevaluate your whole life at that point.

Ed Jelley: So, well, you said the one thing that I didn't say, which is, is perfect. It's like, we wouldn't be sitting here doing this if we didn't have that integrity. Right. I mean, it, you know, you find out pretty quickly, this is a very insular community. We understand like what's going on the nuts and bolts, whether it's said or not. And, you know, and no one in this community does that really. Um, you know, I'm not sure about other communities. I don't really follow anything as close as like the stationary community, but you know, you're, you're just in general, you're not going to see that. And, you know, you would totally give up any integrity you had as a blogger, writer, podcaster, whatever, if you were doing those things and just none of us are built that way. I'm not built that way. I couldn't sleep at night. So, you know, I'm, I never worry about telling someone their product sucks.

Myke Hurley: So I wondered at one point a long time ago in my career, if I wanted to do product tech, product reviews, uh, written and audio and video was, was a plan. Like I had this whole plan. I had a show idea. I think I was going to, I think if memory serves, I was going to call it points of review. And that was going to be something that I was going to do, right? Cause I like technology. I like playing with gadgets and new phones and computers and stuff. So I started going down that road and I started contacting companies and I ended up getting in touch with the agency in the UK that manages Samsung's PR. Oh, I remember this. And yeah. And also HTC as well. Uh, HTC sent me, uh, what their flagship phone at the time. And I really liked it and it was a phone that I really wanted to try out. It was an Android phone and I played around with it and, and was really happy with it and kind of did a little review of it. And that was great. And I was trying to get Samsung to send me one of the galaxy notes, but the company that they worked to have said, yeah, we'll send you those, but we want to send you just Chromebook first. And I was like, all right, whatever. Like send me the Chromebook. I don't want the Chromebook, but send me the Chromebook. Um, and I slammed the Chromebook because it was one of the worst pieces of technology I've ever used. And I never heard back from the PR agency. That was when I realized I didn't want to get into this game because I knew what they were sending me the Chromebook for. They wanted to see how I would react to their bad product and I wasn't willing to do what they wanted to do. So I decided to get out of that game. So I don't take stuff for review. I never ask for it. People don't send me it because they never ask for it. Um, people, sometimes people send me betas of applications, but I don't review stuff like that anywhere. Like I might talk about something on the show, but I would have spoken about it anyway. Like nothing really kind of gets a review from me because it's been given. Um, and that just makes me happier. I prefer to spend my own money on stuff and then I get to say whatever the hell I want. I'll say whatever the hell I want anyway. Yeah. No, but you know what I mean though? Like you said that, you know, you might buy, someone might send you something and you send it back to them and don't say anything. That's true. But I don't have that concern. Cause like, you know, I have, I don't mind. I paid my own money for it. Like if I want to say I don't like it, then I'll say I don't like it. I bought a Visionaire, you know, what are you going to do?

Ed Jelley: Did you buy a Visionaire, Ed?

Brad Dowdy: No, I was, I was on for the talk about it though, but I did not.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. Yeah. Good. Good move. All right. Let's wrap this up on a couple, uh, more fun questions. Even though this has been an awesome conversation. I think we could go like another hour on this type of topic easily. Oh yeah. But, um, Hutch, Hutch with a second question. What's the most fun you've had when doing something connected to your site?

Brad Dowdy: Um, I think it was cool that like, you kind of look back and like, well, I've gotten two jobs cause of this. One of them is cause of Instagram and those brought me to DC Pencho and Miami Pencho. And, um, I think it's like, for me, the most fun thing is looking back and seeing like all you've done and all that you can do because you decided to like write out a review instead of paying attention in one of your boring classes and snap a picture on your phone in the class and then decide to post it on a website that has your name as the title, like an idiot. And, um, I don't know. I think it's just looking back and then seeing how things have improved. And like, it's really kind of a, you know, permanent, uh, log of your, you know, progress until you, you know, don't renew your domain or something. But, you know, it's there and it's cool to go back and look at old things like, oh my God, I can't believe I published those pictures. Like that was terrible. And then like, now I'm like, that was four years ago. I took it on my cell phone and it's like, I don't know. It just cool to me seeing like where you came from and what you're doing now and kind of looking ahead to where you can go.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. I think for me, and I don't know if Michael have the same answer, but, uh, it's definitely being able to do something like the Atlanta pen show. That's a ridiculous. Yeah. I mean, that's straight up ridiculous that we're able to do something like that from a podcast that talks about stationary and, uh, to get people out, you know, come see us live travel. How many hours, how many countries, um, to, to come say hi and see us in person. Um, that's a trip to this day. It's, uh, it's awesome. Yep.

Myke Hurley: A hundred percent. Yeah.

Ed Jelley: All right. So Ed, this is, this is from Phillip and I've already bragged on you, you once, Ed, and I don't do it enough about your photography. So we want to hear about your photography. Um, and why are you so good at it?

Brad Dowdy: Um, I think it's just practice, practice, practice, practice, and, uh, kind of having that drive to want the best picture you can get and research and practice more. And then if you don't like something, find out why it's not like that. And then you have to research post-processing and tweaking your images after the fact and, and cropping and everything to get your frames right. And the picture is the way you want to look like you want them to look. I mean, I could go into this for like another two hours.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. So Phillip, Phillip pointed out your framing specifically. He said, your framing is, is awesome and you should get a ton of props on all your photography work. So talk a little bit, just a tidbit about maybe set up in, in framing.

Brad Dowdy: Um, okay. So you kind of want to find the best angle that compliments what you're taking a picture of and you definitely want to make sure your lighting is proper or else you're going to have a bad time. Um, I think I, I forgot where I wrote it. I think it was on like my photo website, which I don't push anywhere, but I think I like taking pictures of products because you can kind of use your photography to bring out the small details and things that designers put there that might go unnoticed otherwise. So, um, I found it, I find it fun to be like, Oh, here's this like little thing or this little line or this little curve, or like the light hits the chamfered edge of this, whatever nicely. It's like, why would you not want to highlight that? So you kind of want to frame up and plan your pictures out so you can highlight what you're taking a picture of in the best way possible. And of course, like it has your own look and feel to it. Like, you know, if everybody took white background pictures, which I do take a fair amount of white background pictures, but like, you know, they're all going to look the same. You got to kind of find a fun background, um, props without going overboard to where it's unrealistic and just kind of set up the scene, how you see the pen going. Or the product like in its environment. And that's pretty important.

Ed Jelley: Yeah. So that's always been one of the things that I don't have. I don't have that piece of my brain to handle the photography in a better way than what I'm doing right now. And, but, you know, admittedly, I haven't worked as hard, um, at it, um, as I've worked as hard on some other things. So, you know, that's always something I find fascinating. I always love, you know, seeing your photography and everyone else's photography does such a wonderful job and I'm super jealous of your awesome photography. It's legitimately amazing. And, uh, you know, not just your readers know it, but, uh, other companies know it cause they've, uh, reached out for you for some work and, uh, you always deliver excellence. So that's, that's really cool. Yeah, absolutely. So anything else, uh, for you, Myke, before we wrap this up, I think this was an amazing conversation and I honestly feel like we could go probably like another 30 minutes easily. Just, uh, just chatting about this stuff. Um, anything else you want to point out, Myke?

Myke Hurley: I guess, I don't know if this is needed, but I'll say to you directly, Ed, just keep pushing through. Yeah. This is a point that everybody goes through. I had a call of a friend of mine today about the, this exact same thing. Uh, this is, you're probably at the point where you'll make a decision that will inform where you go next and it will be whether you continue or not. Um, everybody does it. Everybody needs to go through this point. And if you continue, you'll be fine. If you don't, you'll also be fine. It'll just inform where you go next.

Ed Jelley: Thank you.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Conversation Evolution

Ed Jelley: And this is, and this is a new thing. We're all trying to figure this out, right? 10 years ago, we're not having these types of conversations, right? We're in a state right now where we have these options for what directs our lives and it's hard to figure out. So it's nice to be able to have these conversations no matter where they lead.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I feel like if you're about to set me off on something, so I'll try and keep this very brief. Uh, this is like one of my, uh, biggest annoyances with the complaints about millennial generation. And it's the people say that they're lazy. They just want the job that is for them. They want the job that they want, that kind of thing. And it's purely because this is the generation where we're able to create our own jobs that hasn't existed before so much, right? Like the only other way to do it was to make a business. Like how does everybody make a business? You could go buy a store and sell stuff like physically in the street. Like that doesn't exist for everyone. Not everybody can do that. It takes money that not everybody has, but the internet has enabled people to create businesses for themselves. It can be anything. It can be writing like you guys do. It could be a podcasting like I do, or it can be selling stuff, but it's way easier when you can just fire up an Etsy store and see if people are actually interested in your thing. That's what has been the biggest impact to my generation, in my opinion, where it ends up people saying, oh, millennials are just lazy. They don't want to do that banking job. No, it's just because nobody actually wants to do that job. Previously, there wasn't a way out, right? People were just unhappy. I mean, I worked with everybody was unhappy. Nobody actually wanted to be there. It was just the thing that they did. But now people have a way out. So they have this type of thing, and this is the type of thing that's available to them. But it does come with a lot of hard work and a lot of choices that you have to make. That's what I'm going to say on this for now. Ding! Ed, where can people find your work?

Brad Dowdy: You can find me at edjelly.com, E-D-J-E-L-L-E-Y.com, and at edjelly on Instagram. I'll just say edjellyphoto.com, see some pictures, and over at everydaycarry.com. Awesome. And real quick, just as my closing statement, I know this isn't quite, the most positive topic, but I'm not quitting. I'm not giving it up. I'm not selling the site. I'm just, you know, you just listen to this for an hour and 11 minutes, so you kind of know how I feel. But I just wanted to let people know that, look forward to my work and reading my reviews, that as of right now, they're not going anywhere. I just might not feel as super about them as I did four years ago when I started it. But I don't want to scare anybody. Super, super bad.

Ed Jelley: And you have 100% of my support, our support, the community support. And, you know, any decision you make is going to be the best decision for you. And we're behind it 100%. And we don't want to see you go anywhere. Don't go. Except this is over. So I'm going to go back to work. Yeah, go do that. Yeah, go now. We're done with you. Goodbye.

Myke Hurley: If you want to find our show notes for this week, head on over to relay.fm slash penaddict slash 211. Thanks to Harry for sponsoring. Thank you all for listening. Really appreciate everybody tuning in as they do every single week. We really appreciate it. We love you all. But this just leaves me to say, go find Brad online. He's at penaddict.com. At Dowdy is on one Twitter. And penaddict on Instagram. I am at imike. I-M-Y-K-E. Until next time, say goodbye, guys. Bye, guys. Bye.