The Pen Addict 189/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	189
Title:	OG Colorer
Release Date:	January 20th, 2016
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	June Thomas
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 189
Audio File:	Audio Episode 189
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 189
Length:	5959 min <br />0.983 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 189. Today's show is brought to you by Pen Chalet and Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined, as always, by Mr. Brad Dowdy.

Brad Dowdy: What's up, Mr. Hurley?

Myke Hurley: I considered a funny name for you this week, but pulled out at the last moment. I didn't have anything good enough immediately come to mind.

Brad Dowdy: You know, it's always trouble whenever you do that, because then people want it the next time. I know. We need to, just for old times' sakes, we need to pull up Kanuni Renishin's old list and pick out some of our favourites. Maybe that's a good episode 200 type of thing we should do.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I'll find that list and put it in the show notes for anybody that has no idea what we're talking about.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I think a lot of people don't, and there's still tons of people. I know Chuck is listening in the chat room today. He's one that's a newish listener, but he's plowed through all the episodes in a couple months. So he's used to hearing all the names, and then all of a sudden they just stop.

Brad Dowdy: Well, we should have a name for our special guest we have on today, Michael. Yeah, we definitely should. But I don't have one. I don't have one. But because her first name is so awesome, and her first name is June. Hey, June, how are you?

June Thomas: I'm very well, Brad. Hey, Myke. Thanks for having me.

Myke Hurley: Absolute pleasure. Again, another thing long-time listeners of the show may remember that me and Brad were very excited when June spoke about us on the Slate Cultural Gab Fest. It was quite some time ago now, but that was a very exciting thing for us.

Brad Dowdy: It was awesome. And so for everyone that's not familiar, this is June Thomas from Slate. She's the Slate Culture Critic, the editor of Outward, which is Slate's LGBTQ section. She records more podcasts than Myke, I think. Is that accurate, June?

June Thomas: Only this week. No one records more than Myke on a regular bit.

Brad Dowdy: And most importantly, June is just full-bore stationary addict. And I think ever since – so I pulled up that mention. It was in May 2014, June. And I forget who – a bunch of people – I mean, Slate's obviously a huge, huge, you know, kind of touchstone, I guess, on the internet, would you say? Yeah. And so a lot of people listen to, you know, read what you write and listen to your different shows. And I just remember, like, my sister, you know, emailing me, you know, hey, you know, I just heard this on the Cultural Gab Fest. And tell us about, you know, that wasn't like your first kind of article or mention on Slate about your stationary, you know, kind of addiction.

June Thomas: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: But that was the first time we kind of came together right after that. So how did that come about?

June Thomas: Well, it's true. I had a little bit been in the closet about my stationary addiction. And that mention on the Cultural Gab Fest was really spontaneous because, you know, at the end of the show, there's endorsements. And I'd had something planned. And then something came up in, you know, just organically in the conversation that made me think, no, I should talk about these, you know, this world of pen and pencil podcasts. And the Erasable podcast had just started back then. So it was mostly you guys. And it got that response that I know you guys are really familiar with where people are like, podcasts about pens? But it was also that reaction that then there was, you know, this famous community was all, you know, kind of rose up like, oh, you know. And so then I did start to write more about my stationary tastes because people, you know, a lot of people are like, whatever. I have no idea what you're talking about. This is crazy. This is something from childhood or whatever. But then, even if it's only a few people and it's actually more than a few, there is such a, you know, a kinship of people who say, oh, my goodness, I love stationary too. So that encouraged me to now be a little bit more open about my love of pens, papers, pens, pencils and paper.

Myke Hurley: I'm always surprised by how I still very, very frequently have people say something to me like, that podcast about pens? Or they reference it in a really weird way. Like I was out for my brother's birthday. I went to go visit my brother and we were kind of in the pub with some of his friends. And one of them mentioned the pen addict is that pen podcast is frequently how the show is referred to by people that don't completely understand it.

Brad Dowdy: Well, it's true. Two weeks ago when we recorded at 11, we got kicked off the live stream because we misfired on the time, right? And Upgrade, was it up? No, it was Clockwise was getting ready to come on with Jason Snell. So a bunch of the Clockwise listeners were coming into the chat room while we were still recording. And they weren't sure what's going on. And Jason said something, you said something about, you know, we're still recording the pen addict. And one of them seriously asked, goes, oh, I thought that was a joke.

Brad Dowdy: You got offended. Like you like snapped back at him. Yeah, it's no joke. It is very real. This is an institution. It's an institution.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. That's right. Every now and then someone will say something and, you know, I'm just like, come on, this is a big thing. This is the pen addict.

Brad Dowdy: Well, and then to have someone as famous as June Thomas. As famous, yes. Yeah, that's right. Seeing this come up in Slate and things like that, it's pretty cool. And the article I was referring to before that you had referenced even before the Cultural Gab Fest mentioned, you just, you're addicted to stationary posts. I mean, the first sentence is pretty much all everyone needs to know about you. And I'm going to read that for everyone. It says, on a shelf not too far from the desk where I'm typing sit 267 unused notebooks.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, that's my cupboard.

Notebook Collection

Brad Dowdy: I mean, so how is that shelf looking these days? And are you making any headway? Or has that like doubled now since you've kind of been drugging this into this community, whether you like it or not?

June Thomas: The answer to that question, Brad, is yes and yes. It grows all the time. Because, like, why would I stop? I love accumulating notebooks. And fortunately, they're inexpensive enough. You know, if I was addicted to pens, that might be slightly different. I merely like pens. But notebooks are the things, like, that's my happy place. Buying a notebook, that sort of peps me up if I'm feeling down. And so, yeah, I keep buying them. I keep finding new ones. But I also use them. I use a lot. I write all the time. And so I don't have any, you know, like, sometimes you collect something or you accumulate something. And you feel a bit guilty about it. But I have zero guilt about my stationary addiction. Because, like, what's the harm?

June Thomas: Even though often I'll just have them sit there. Some of them have been sitting there for years. They've moved across country for me. Some may even have moved across oceans. But I really do use them all the time. And I'm a great believer in that you'll find the book for whatever it is that you need to do. And you don't know when you'll come across that. So things that I've put aside for ages, suddenly, you know, the moment arrives. And I pull them out of the pile. And so it sits there and it gets added to. But I also use them.

Favorite Notebook

Myke Hurley: What's your favorite notebook at the moment, June?

June Thomas: Ooh. See, I have to say, right now, I'm loving the field notes. Gosh, I've forgotten the name. Snowdrift No. What's the fancy name?

Brad Dowdy: Snowblind.

June Thomas: Snowblind. Thank you. I'm loving that. I really enjoy the cover. I never really go outside. So it's changed about once. But I love the...

Myke Hurley: Mine have never changed color.

June Thomas: Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm an indoor girl. That's how I am. But I love the very light grid. But I'm also really big on Forest Choice notebooks. You know, the ones that you can get from pencils.com. Super cheap. I love those. I use those for my daily journaling. I'm a great believer in... Well, I shouldn't say I'm a great believer. I think a lot of us get intimidated by notebooks. You know, they're too nice. They're too precious. They're too special. And I really find that when... What helps me to write, which is kind of the purpose of all these notebooks, is having a notebook that I like and enjoy, but that I don't feel too precious about because I have another 266 of them sitting on a shelf. Or they're easy to find again. So I really love working in those notebooks because I think they take all kinds of pen very well. I have the small and the large. I'm doing a special project soon. And even though I use a lot of the same type of notebooks, I've actually also pulled out a... What's the name of that company from San Francisco, Brad? We talked about it years ago, that makes backpacks and also four wheels. I can see there. Rickshaw. Rickshaw.

Myke Hurley: Rickshaw. Ah, yes.

June Thomas: I bought a Rickshaw folio many years ago, used it once or twice, put it back in my drawer. I've pulled that out. I've got my notebooks in there for that project. So it's like, it's all about what's right for a particular project or a particular pen that you're into right then. So long answer, but there's mine.

Brad Dowdy: Do you have a daily process for writing? I mean, a lot of your job involves writing and note taking. Exactly. You know, you're into all kinds of stuff. I mean, I don't watch much TV, but between you and Christina Warren, I'm up on like every TV show. That there is. I mean, do you have any kind of process?

June Thomas: I do. I have so many. It's ridiculous because, you know, I live in a New York apartment. I should be super efficient. And in many ways, I am efficient. I feel like as somebody about getting my work done, I'm super efficient. But when it comes to stationary, I'm a little like, I like to use all my books. You know, it's like they say on the Anderson Pen Podcast, use your pens. So one way of using your pens is to have a lot of notebooks going. So I basically have like a big pad that I keep at the side of me that's actually a Cambridge wire bound legal pad that I kind of keep my daily to do list on a weekly basis. So like, let's just say a page for each week. So I keep that by me. I always have a field notes in my pocket. I usually have a Marizen B5 notebook that I find are great for just kind of making notes if I'm writing something. It's a weird thing, you know, if I'm writing a piece. It kind of depends on how big I think the piece will be, what notebook I use. Because I want to have enough space for what I, you know, for all the notes that I need for the piece, but I also don't want to have too much because that feels wasteful. I don't like to waste paper. So again, a very peculiar process that's all in my head about what's the right size. I have notebooks for to keep track of various things, different notebooks for some, if I'm going to like an ongoing project that's going to be quite extensive, I have a separate notebook for that. Or, you know, I do some, I mostly write for Slate, but I also have some other columns or freelance pieces that I do. So I'll often, I have a different notebook, which is currently a field notes that I keep inside a NotCo container, let's say. NotCo.

June Thomas: What do you call these things, Brad? NotCo.

Brad Dowdy: A case. A case. A case. Thank you.

June Thomas: There's a word, not Co case, for another magazine that I write for. And then in the evening, I have, as I say, I journal in the Forest Choice notebooks. And I just do two sides. And that might seem like a little bit, but I've never, ever in all my life, despite having been a professional journalist for a long time, I was never able to journal. That was like, I, either I found, oh, I've written myself out, I write all the time, or I just, again, maybe I was a little bit intimidated by books, but I've managed to keep that up for almost a year, which I feel like I should throw a party for myself. Wow. Yeah. And there's something, again, it's like this, they feel very throwaway. It's nothing too special, but I like to put stickers on them and make them a little bit special, but blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, lots and lots of different processes. And when I'm watching television, if it's something that I might write about, again, I have another notebook that I keep notes about TV shows in, partly so that I can kind of index them and find the specific notes. So if I keep them separate from just general stuff, that feels useful. Because I do often have to kind of go back to that writing so that I can, you know, find old notes and stuff.

Brad Dowdy: So people listening to this right now, I mean, that listen to a show about pens and all that stuff, they're like totally nodding their head. They're like, yes, I do the same thing. And, you know, I have these 10 different notebooks going for all these 10 different projects. And man, this is awesome. And, you know, in the real world, it doesn't really apply. But, you know, I look back, you know, I've had this problem since childhood. Like, how long does this go back for you to where you like actually cared about, you know, what paper you write on or what pen you had or things like that? I mean, is this a long seated thing? Or is this kind of a relatively new thing?

June Thomas: No, it's a forever thing for me. I've always related. When you've talked about, you know, going with your granddad to the university bookstore, or, you know, I think that was your origin story, right? Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I could totally relate to that because I have such clear memories of going, in my case, to WH Smith's in Bolton and just spending hours and hours just wandering the aisles. And WH Smith's, Brad, is a very standard store. It's probably the most, like there's one on every high street in England. And it's a general store in a way. They have newspapers and books and stationery. And it tends to be kind of, as I say, standard stuff. But I would find so much entertainment in that store. It was like the greatest television show. And so I've always been very much. And for me, I think the thing that I really enjoy is finding the right paper for the right pen. You know, it's all about, I'm like a total matchmaker of pen and paper. Mm-hmm. So even if you have kind of a crummy pen or a crummy paper, you can always, you can always still find a thrill of matchmaking. So, yeah, that's been something that I have always enjoyed. And when I travel, again, it's a crazy thing, but I love to, first of all, I love to just go into supermarkets and look at like, oh, so this is what's in a Dutch supermarket. Which is, you know, when I come back home, oh, what did you do? Well, I spent a lot of time wandering the aisles of a superstore. And then I also like to go to just, you know, I like to go to nice ones, but I'm really happy just going into a, you know, just a regular old office supply store. There's always something that you discover. Sure. And I'm fascinated by different kinds of books that are used in different countries. So it's a very long and enduring passion. And other things that I liked when I was a kid have kind of fallen away. But stationery is something that has endured for me.

Podcast Guests

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's fantastic. And one of the things we're going to talk about later in the show, one of the reasons why I want to have June on is we're going to do a stationery tour of New York City. And she's going to help us shop throughout the city. But, you know, before we even get to that, I found out something earlier this week that you've been into quite a long time as well. And that's the adult coloring scene.

Brad Dowdy: So on the XX Gab Fest, which you record every two weeks for Slate. That's right. And I listened to this most recent episode because you were talking about adult coloring. Number one, I'm glad I didn't have a drink in my mouth when you were explaining some of the coloring books you've used back in the day because I was just rolling on the floor.

Brad Dowdy: But then you went into, I mean, you've been essentially adult coloring for years, if not decades. Yeah. Right. So, and your hosts, your co-hosts were just like kind of flabbergasted a little bit about this whole adult coloring thing.

June Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there were, I think, I mean, we know that we were a little late to that topic, but I think, you know, like a lot of people, they discovered it from the sales, you know, these massive sales that we've seen of the big coloring books, you know, the millions of copies that Johanna Basford of Sol and some.

Brad Dowdy: I was in Barnes and Noble yesterday and they're like front and center on like the big display.

June Thomas: Yeah. And I think I heard that like something like five of the top 10 sellers on Amazon last year, which is a huge amount of the book sales in America, were coloring books. So, you know, a little late, but also the mainstream. And yeah, they were sort of, they'd not done it. And, you know, it's something that I've been doing. I've actually done it a little less because I'm one of those people, it's horrible and irritating that, you know, once something gets popular, I'm a little bit of a hipster like that. I've a little bit put aside my coloring books or just like try to pull out my old school ones, you know, just to show that I'm, you know, an OG colorer. Right. But I've, yeah, I've done it forever. And I, my big thing, I love to do it with magic pencils that I know Anna was talking about the last time she was on. And I know that you bought Myke when you were in New York. So that's a really great way to color. Like I'm into coloring, but I'm not into like the picking up and putting down of the, I'm going to sound like the laziest person in the world, the picking up and putting down of the different colors. So I like to just, you know, use the one pencil that you can manipulate slightly, but also be surprised by, uh, and it looks, I think it looks really cool. Um, but yeah, putting it down a little bit because I don't want to be too, uh, too much of a hipster. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I'm not going to let you completely off the hook though, because apparently Myke, uh, you and I are a couple of dudes who, um, two dudes who talk about this stuff on, on the podcast. And one of us has basically become a full on trader going into the, uh, the digital coloring, uh, as opposed to the analog stuff. Right, June? That is, did I sum that up? Uh, pretty fairly? Yeah.

June Thomas: You know, I, I had forgotten that, but now you bring it back to me. I think in the heat of the moment, I did suggest as I may have in the past that there, there does tend to be a differentiation between men and women as far as, uh, love of using gadgets. Now I'm a woman and I love gadgets, so I'm not making this like one thing or the other, but there's just a tendency. I think you might say that men tend to be more into the using gadgets to do things that you don't necessarily need gadgets to accomplish the deed. And so when Myke, you were talking about your love of the app that lets you color on your iPad, that felt to me like a very doodly way to do coloring.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I mean, I have books and I love my books, but I really love pigment, the app that I use because I, it is like an infinite source. That's what I like.

June Thomas: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. And it doesn't take up my entire desk.

June Thomas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't have to keep, uh, buying more, uh, more, more markers. Cause I know you go through them when you're using markers.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. We, we do need to share your, um, your, your sticker, Myke, for the pencil. You made the pencil look like a pencil.

Myke Hurley: Oh, the D brand. Uh, skin. Yeah. Yeah. The D brand. Yeah. Yeah. I've been meaning to mention this. I found a skin like that you can stick on the Apple pencil that makes it look like a HP pencil.

June Thomas: Ah, that's awesome.

Brad Dowdy: So we'll, we'll put that in the show notes. Yeah. Um, it is, it's pretty cool looking. All right. So I want to June, we'll, we're going to get more into this background stuff and I want to get on this New York station stationary tour because Myke has recently been, I've been to New York like a decade ago. And before I was like really into like hunting all this stuff down. And so I want to hear, I mean, New York city is one of the, the, the core stationary cities. So we're going to talk about that, but let's, uh, let's talk about our first sponsor, Myke. What do we got today?

Pen Chalet Sponsors

Myke Hurley: This week's episode is brought to you by our friends over at Pen Chalet, the seller of all your favorite brands like Monteverde, Pelican, Lamy, Pilot, Namiki, Sailor, Kaweco, many, many more. They have authentic, amazing roller balls, fountain pens, ballpoints, mechanical pencils, everything that you're going to want to need to satiate the pen addictness in yourself or in somebody else that you love. They also have carrying cases and refills and converters, everything that you're going to want. They have free shipping on orders of over $50 in the continental United States and they sell internationally as well. Pen Chalet has low prices on high quality pens and they believe in customer satisfaction and offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee to prove it. Pen Chalet are always doing special discounts. They're always adding new styles of pens. And you should always be thinking that if you want to buy a new pen or you're looking for something, go to Pen Chalet first, because at any time you can use the code penaddict at checkout and you'll get 10% of anything that you buy there. Or you can click the podcast link at the top of the website, enter the password penaddict for some special savings. This week we have the Pilot Knight for the price of a Pilot Metropolitan. Ron has the Silver Medium Pilot Knight on sale for Pen Addict listeners. The retail of this pen is $48, but you can pick this one up after the 10% coupon as well for just $14.99, which is a fantastic deal from the Pen Chalet.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's kind of crazy. The Knight, I don't own a Knight, but it came out a few years ago. It was kind of the precursor to the Metropolitan before I guess they decided to really go all in with the entry-level Metropolitan. This was kind of their take on an entry-level traditional style fountain pen. And I think it did pretty well. It looks like the same nib that goes in the Metropolitan, which I think is fantastic and I think everyone pretty much loves. So yeah, this is, I mean, I know these pens went for, we're going, you know, street price around $40 something. So for $15, which is, might even be less than the Metropolitan these days, it's at least right there in the ballpark. It's a real good pen and a real good purchase. And I'm scrolling down the rest of the list, Myke. One of my favorite pens, the Platinum 3776. He has the Psy, which was one of the limited edition ones. One of the clear, one of the clear demonstrator models on sale for, I clicked the link so now I can't see it. It was really cheap. $140, $145, which is like nuts. I mean, I paid way more than that for mine and I love this pen. The 3776 nibs are incredible and I really, really enjoy that pen.

Myke Hurley: Thank you so much to Pen Chalet for sponsoring this week's episode of the Pen Addict Podcast.

Brad Dowdy: All right, June, before we go on tour, it just hit me that I had a question I didn't write down. Oh. No, no, no, no. It's a good question. You don't use fountain pens, do you?

June Thomas: Oh, I do actually. I do use fountain pens. Okay. But it's funny though because I tend to use them for leisure rather than for what you might, what I might sort of separate out as my work, which when you're a journalist is very hard to do because you're always, in fact, like gathering information and stuff. But, so yeah, I have a few, but I tend to be a little, like, I know that that's a really expensive potential sinkhole. So, I tend to only buy them by mail because I'm afraid of going to a pen store. But, like, I love my Lamy 2000. I have an ink that I really love. So, I have definitely have pens. But I am a little bit of a, I'm afraid. That's where I'm afraid of really going down the retail. So, you know, that way bankruptcy lies.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. But 267 notebooks is okay, right?

June Thomas: That's fine. That's fine.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. Just making sure. Just making sure. All right. So, I feel that New York City as a whole, it's like completely unfair to the rest of us. Yeah. Because all the cool stuff is there, right? All the cool stuff is in New York City. So, I wanted to talk to you about a few of the spots that I really wish I could get to in New York City. Then maybe a few of the hidden gems that you haunt frequently. How does that sound?

June Thomas: That sounds fantastic.

Kino Kaniya

Brad Dowdy: So, I think the first spot I would probably go because I'm a huge Japanese pen fan and just Japanese stationery fan in general is Kino Kaniya. Is that a store that's on your radar or do you make a pilgrimage there frequently?

June Thomas: Yes. That's a regular stop. Partly because it's, you know, it's in a really good location. It's very easy to get to. And so, that's, and also my partner is, I studied Japanese for many years. And so, like, she goes to look at books and, you know, buy books in Japanese. And I, and she also likes stationery. So, we're, you know, we're both spend a lot of time there very happily. But, yeah, it's a fantastic place. Brad, I hope that when you eventually go there again or go there for the first time, perhaps, they still have, you know how you did the interview for the New York Times magazine about the, about the Signo? Well, so they've got that torn out of the magazine. But because it went over onto two pages, the thing that was the next story is also taped to the, you know, to the, the rack. And I, as I recall, it's about how to roll a blunt. So, every time I see, every time I'm looking at pens and shopping for pens, I see your name and I'm like, oh, the pen I had. And then I'm like, what? It's like a weird, weird kind of, I always want to take a picture. Like, yes, it's still here. So, anyway, yes. Kino Kuni is a fantastic store. It is, I mean, talk about a store that you could wander around forever. You know, it's, it's basically a Japanese office supply store. The pens are better than you would find in a, in a, you know, big box American store. But, you know, a lot of the stuff that we kind of fetishize a little bit is pretty standard stuff for them. Right. And, but it's an absolutely fantastic place to, to wander. And again, because I expose like W.H. Smith, it has books in English. It has books about Japan in English. So, as a bookstore, it's great. They have some, you know, a few gifty type things. They also have just a magnificent stationary section with just as all the Japanese things that you could find, including a few pens and fountain pens. Although just the way that that's set up is not terribly inviting. I've fortunately been able to resist the temptation to do any fountain pen shopping there. But then there's also Japanese magazines, which are kind of facing the stationary area. And I don't know about you guys, but I love Japanese magazines. I'm especially drawn to the Japanese kind of men's magazines. Things like Free and Easy, Popeye, these kind of, it's very, you know, the things that they think of as being manly stuff, which is like a very American, classic American jeans or preppy Luke and then fountain pens and then glasses. And then, you know, just this, I can't resist those books. So I, they're a little bit expensive, but it's great to have all of those things, you know, essentially in one building right at Bryant Park. It's fantastic.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I think I would actually probably spend more in the magazine section than the pen section. I mean, they're expensive, you know, by the time. Right. They're expensive to begin with, but I like that aesthetic. I like that style. I like seeing all the things that they come up with that, you know, just, you know, that we don't necessarily do here or that's regularly accessible here. So yeah, that's really cool. What have you found anything as far as pens or pencils or paper there? That's just kind of really, you know, struck your fancy that you couldn't come up with anywhere else?

June Thomas: You know, not so much that I couldn't come up with, but there's always, you know, again, it might be, I love the index cards. I mean, I'm a big fan of notco cards, of course, but I really love the Kukuyo information cards, as they call them, which are essentially index cards in lots of different sizes, you know, standard sizes, but I can't resist them. I, you know, and again, these days, thanks to JetPens and just the sort of general, generally increased availability of Japanese pens and Japanese stationery in the US, it's easier to find them, but it's always nice just to be able to try things. You know, I, for example, I was never a Coletto user. It just didn't seem like something that would interest me. Once I went there, just kind of tried one, purchased a few refills, put them together. I now use a Coletto constantly. And again, that feels like a pen that's like, it's a little bit reminds me of being in school. And so, you know, I sometimes feel like, am I a middle-aged woman or a school girl using this pen? But it's a really awesome pen. And it's nice to be able to switch colors and, you know, pull out, you know, bring out a big orange pen right next to, you know, a blue-black refill. So, you know, it's just like having a chance to just touch things and play with them and try them, which it's always possible to do there. That it just, and to see the paper, you know, I also like just the kind of campus notebooks, which again are just their most basic school notebooks. But I love them. I can never resist them. I often go in there thinking, just going to get this one refill. And yeah, that never happens.

Brad Dowdy: Well, people send me pictures from there all the time. And it's just, you know, I just want to go stand there for a minute and see, like every Coletto refill is there on the shelf, right? That's not stuff you run into at, you know, going to Staples or Office Max. It's just, it's kind of, kind of mind-blowing.

June Thomas: Yeah, it's a wonderland. And all the sizes as well. So your ridiculous skinny size, which I just, I make a face at. And then the nice thick refill, well, they're really not thick enough, but as big as they get as well. So, you know, there's something for everyone.

Brad Dowdy: Yep, yep. So now kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum, which, you know, just in, you know, our realm might actually be a cooler store. And I'm super jealous of Myke that he's been to this store, CW Pencil Enterprise. So do you make it over to Caroline Weaver's wonderful shop?

June Thomas: Not as much as I'd like to, but yes. And it is a fantastic shop. I, you know, knowing that I was going to be, have the honor of being a guest on your show this week, I popped over there this weekend. And it was, it was packed and it was fantastic. And there was that thing, again, that we were talking about earlier, where people who sometimes respond to the, this show, like, really, what, what? We were heading there and we were purposefully heading there, but, you know, it's a neighborhood where people are just wandering around. And there were people, as we were trying to get up the stairs, that were going, wait, what? It's a shop, just pencils? That's crazy. And they went in and, of course, they bought something. And it's, you know, it's just so fantastic. I also, I mean, obviously, it's a great store. They know pencils. They've got a lot of pencils. But that's also fantastic that they make it really easy for you to try things and they can advise you. And, you know, I remember when you went there, Myke, you were saying that you can have this really nerdy conversation about pencils, which, you know, it's fun. But if you can, it's almost like, you know, the Slack Room or something where you can nerd out as much as you like. And, you know, you're actually getting to use your knowledge or, you know, to be, for it to be, it's a safe space, you know, where you can fully nerd out on stationery.

Myke Hurley: And what I really liked about CW is that you can try everything there. Like, it's really easy to just grab something and see what it's like and get a feel for it before you think about buying it. That's really important. And they take great pains in making sure that that works.

June Thomas: Yeah, absolutely. And they've sort of beefed up the notebook selection that they have since the first time that I went there. And I love that they're constantly getting more and more stuff. You know, I think Caroline is really, you know, she's really committed and she's really into it. And that's really obvious. And I love any kind of store like that where you, you know, that's one thing that we have a lot of in New York, like just weird little stores, you know, that it's like the restaurant that only sells rice pudding. It's weird, but it's awesome. And if you are a rice pudding fanatic, we're better in the world. And for us, you know, the equivalent is CW Pencils and their ilk.

Brad Dowdy: So the thing I want to experience going to CW Pencils is just seeing just the eyes wide open smiles of everyone that walks into that shop. Because I just know that's how it would be. I mean, that's how I would be. And I know the things that are in there, but people experiencing that for the first time or coming back after they've discovered it, it's just, that's the thing about stationery as a whole, I think. You know, just for $3, you can put the biggest grin on your face. Absolutely. And just have this total enjoyment and, you know, forget about other things going on in the world. And for this minute, you know, just be enamored with the pencil and the piece of paper you're writing with. And, you know, seeing a shop like CW do so well and following them online and just, you know, hearing about the shop being packed when you went over there this weekend, it just makes me so, so happy. I mean, I'm just, I'm thrilled to hear that type of stuff.

June Thomas: Yeah. And you know, it was really sweet too. When we walked in, there were, Caroline actually wasn't there, but I don't know quite, I don't know the name of the person who was working there, but there were some kids there. And, you know, they were buying pencils like kids do. And, you know, it was the way she was talking to them, the way she was getting them all revved up about buying pencils and how exciting that was. You think this place is creating so many stationary nerds. It's fantastic. You know, there's, there's, you can't have too many stores like that. They have to be a bit special, but they really get people excited about this stuff. And in a way that, you know, I don't hate big box stores, but there's no way that you can ever turn people on to stationary in those places. And, and this is like evangelism for stationary. It's awesome.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Have you ever done that at a big box store? It's been standing in the pen aisle, like at Staples and see someone, you know, I used to do this years ago. I haven't been to Staples in forever, but someone would be like looking around and, you know, have these couple of different pens out trying to think about what they want to do. I was like, oh, you don't want that. I used to do that to people.

Myke Hurley: Have you heard the pleasures of the Sino DX? So if I could just have a moment of your time.

Brad Dowdy: I like felt bad. I like look around. I was like, are there cameras over here? I probably shouldn't be doing this.

June Thomas: Yeah. No, no wearing the same color polo shirt that the staff wear. Cause that would be cheating. That's right. That would be bad. That would be bad.

Brad Dowdy: So another store on my, my stationary tour of New York city when I, when I come, which it's gotta be soon. I I'm I'll, I'll be to New York before, before you know it, but I have to make a jaunt to Muji. And is that a, is that a store you frequent? I mean, I know it's not just stationary, but they're known for, I mean, all the products that they sell, but you know, in our little realm, their stationary is really, really good. Is that something you get into at all?

June Thomas: Absolutely. I I've, I've been a long time. I mean, they're bigger in Europe. There are rather there are more of them. Certainly in Britain, I've, you know, had a chance to go to a bunch of Muji stores there. But, and one thing that frustrates me slightly about Muji is that at least in the New York branches, they don't rotate the stock a lot around the new year. You get the new batch of calendars and diaries, but it tends to be kind of the same stuff. They might have, you know, they didn't introduce the news Sarasa like pen last year, but so it's always worth going in. I've actually moved away from there. I used to use their gel pens all the time, but I kind of moved away from those. So I still go in and I'm still, I'm always excited to see what there is. But it's a little frustrating that they, they just don't change the stock all that much. But I love their paper. It's such a great price. You cannot beat their price. And again, for that whole point, which maybe is just me, but where you're not going to be intimidated by paper and you can just write and write and write their stationery, their boot, their notebooks are fantastic for that. I just want to mention one thing though, if I could just go back a little bit. Sure. There's one, there's one store that I think doesn't usually get on the New York stationery tour because it's an odd little store. And it used to be out of the way. It's not moved, but now that CW Pencil has been established, it's, you know, it's close to something else. So about three blocks away from CW Pencil is this place called Top Hat. And it's, you know, it's just, it's one of those New York stores that it's really hard to get a sense of what's in there from the outside. It's in the Lower East Side. So it's, you know, not necessarily surrounded by other stores. And it is, it is a peculiar store. They just have strange, unusual things. But among those things are some stationary products that I've really not seen in other places, except in Japan. Now, partly that's because they are, I believe a distributor for Delphonics stuff, which is hard to come by, not impossible, but hard to come by in the U S. So they have a few pens, but they're very strong on peculiar or just, you know, unusual for this country. Notebooks. They also have, you know, like they, they just have a lot of weird stuff. So it's, it's worth going for just to see things that you don't see in many stores. But they have a really unusual selection of notebooks. So if you're into notebooks and if you like the sort of smooth Japanese paper, that's a very good place to check out.

Brad Dowdy: Does, is Delphonics the one that makes the roll of on notebook? Yes. Is that the one? Yes. I haven't used those and everyone keeps telling me I need to use those. I need to get ahold of some of those. Have you ever used one of those by chance?

June Thomas: Yes. Yes. I love them. They are, it's, it's, I'm going to send you one by the way. Uh, they, I love the form factor. They're cool. I like this up there. They've got a creamy paper and they have like a whole bunch of, um, sort of clear pockets at the back. To be honest with you, the, the, the, the form factor, just the literal size is a little peculiar. It's, it's not standard. So it's, I'm always a little bit like, you know, it's just hard to get used to a different literal size, but they're very cool and they come in the best colors. Um, and one of the odd things about Delphonics, other than their pens, I don't think they actually have Delphonics on them. Um, so it's, you know, it's not necessarily obvious that they're all from one company and if they have peculiar branding on them. Um, but yeah, that's an, that's an example of a, of a book. Uh, that's, that's a very cool book. I think, um, also has the, the elastic, uh, closure, uh, which, you know, is, I find very handy and is on a lot of Muji books, but isn't, isn't necessarily standard on a lot of books.

Brad Dowdy: See, that's why we have to have you to have, have all these little, uh, secret locations. That's, uh, you know, to, for anyone that's making the trip, you know, they can, they can figure these things out. That's, that's pretty cool. Top hat. Never heard of them. So that's perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Now the one I have heard of that you put on the list and, and, you know, I, I wouldn't have thought of, but it makes perfect sense is a McNally Jackson bookstore.

McNally Jackson

June Thomas: Yeah. So McNally Jackson is a really cool independent bookstore in Soho. It's very close to the Apple store. Myke, you can just pop down after popping to the Apple store. Easy. Uh, it's on the same street. Um, and, uh, it's, you know, it's a great bookstore. Uh, and they have a really excellent selection of notebooks, uh, including they carry field notes and, uh, you know, it's not like they have anything super rare, but they tend to have, you know, the, the last few, um, releases in the colors as well as the standard notebooks, but they just have, you know, a good selection of unusual notebooks, um, which honestly in New York kind of becomes a little bit standard, but there's, I can, I, if I go in there thinking I'm just going to buy a paperback novel, I always end up also leaving with a notebook because, you know, we are what we are, but they also have, I'm not quite sure exactly how long ago, maybe 18 months ago or so, they opened another store around the corner, which is a very New York store. And also I've, um, heard it, uh, lead to some strange comments of people walking by like, what are they selling? Uh, because it's called McNally Jackson goods, for the study. And it's a, a whole, you know, it's a full on store that has, it's basically laid out as if it was a million people's, um, study. So it's like a long, a lot of kind of big tables and on the tables are like, um, you know, big notebooks, um, some keyboards, a lot of, uh, you know, lamps. So, you know, table lamps that you might have for your study, lots of pens and pencils. And again, um, kind of unusual, you know, things that maybe for us are not necessarily all that difficult to come by, you know, cavecos of various kinds, um, you know, semi standard, but also with a lot of choice, um, you know, that you can try. Um, and again, they have quite a few unusual notebooks and every single time, you know, so doing this little trip that I did just to sort of make sure that nothing had moved or, or change their focus. It cost me a fortune this weekend because I couldn't resist from them. I bought, uh, this peculiar, I think Jack, I mean, Korean notebook, um, from paperways, uh, you know, just this strange layout that I, I couldn't resist large format. Um, it's irresistible and just, they have a really great unusual selection. Um, that is, is just hard to resist if you have any kind of feeling for this kind of product.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Now that, that totally seems like a New York city store and you're, you're describing the store and I'm like, I've got to go there. That sounds just really cool. It's, it's like a furniture store of just like desk setups. It sounds like totally crazy. Like nowhere would, would think of this. I think this would be a really good idea except probably in New York city, maybe Tokyo, something like that, something like that. All right. There's a few more I want to get to, but first we want to talk about our good friends at Squarespace.

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Brad Dowdy: So Spoonbill and Sugartown June is another bookstore you put, you put in. Um, how does that compare to something like, you know, that's been like super established like McNally Jackson? How does, how does Spoonbill and Sugartown fit into this whole stationary tour?

June Thomas: Well, that's, um, a little, a tribute to my, my borough of Brooklyn. Uh, but out in Williamsburg, if you want to, um, go check out the hipsters in Williamsburg, which is terribly unfair because, because it's actually a very cool neighborhood with more than hipsters. And it has a lot of great stores and Spoonbill and, um, Sugartown is a relatively new store. It's, um, it's, it is a very Brooklyn store, I think. And they, um, you know, they, they, they're the kind of equivalent, uh, of these small independent stationary stores, uh, in a bookstore. Like, yes, it's an independent bookstore, but their, their inventory is not like every other independent bookstore. I'm very different from what you'd find in Barnes and Noble. So it's again, uh, uh, just an interesting, different place. And they have, um, uh, a selection of, uh, books, notebooks that they've clearly put a lot of effort into gathering together. Now they're not super rare or anything. They, they have a lot, but they have a lot of Japanese notebooks, you know, the, um, forgetting the name of them, even though I have a bunch, the, uh, is it MN or ML or whatever. And the, you know, the very nice, uh, smooth Japanese paper in various formats. Um, so I don't know if it would be worth going to Williamsburg just for the stationery, just to go there. But if you happen to be in that neighborhood, do not skip that store. Um, and also I just wanted to, there's a, I forgot to put it on the list that I sent to you, but it just came into my, um, head may be prompted by the, the, uh, chat room, but there's a great, um, store called AI Friedman, um, which is on West 18th street on West 18th street on that block. There are actually a few paper stores, but they're mostly kind of almost like paper for parties or paper for presentations for kind of professional type uses. But AI Friedman, I'm sorry, AI Friedman is a really, again, I keep saying using the same phrase because they're, there's a certain similarity to these stores, even though they're all different. Like it has a really great collection of notebooks. So they have, you know, the whole Moleskine, you know, now with all the ridiculous things that Moleskine is going into, you know, with the, the bags and the papers and the pens and the, you know, all of that stuff. But they also have, you know, 25 other kinds of notebooks, uh, that you, you know, you will have seen somewhere. They've not got anything that's absolutely unique to them, but they do a great job of pulling together a whole bunch of things. Uh, and it's, it's just a neat store to check out. Um, they also sell bags, which I think often is a, uh, you know, people who like stationary often also have a weakness for bags. So it's, it's, it's a dangerous place.

Brad Dowdy: So what, what I'm gathering from all this, and we got a couple more to, to, to talk about is you pretty much live in heaven, right? I mean, for a stationary person.

June Thomas: Yes, it's true. You know, I, I think that probably like a lot of other people, if I'm feeling down or frustrated or whatever, I know that if I go, you know, and it can be staples, it really doesn't even need to be one of these fantastic places. Like a stationary store is my happy place. And it's nice to be able, it's nice. And also a little bit frustrating because I never get out of there without buying anything. Um, you know, it's, it's, yeah, it's awesome. It's nice to know what you like and what makes you happy and to be able to go there. And even if you do end up spending money, I, it doesn't have to be all that much. You can, you know, notebooks, if, if notebooks make you happy, that's a pretty good thing to be because there are a lot less expensive than shoes or bags or a lot of the other things that make people happy or computers.

Brad Dowdy: The one store I would get in trouble at is one you don't visit for, for reasons you were saying before, which is the fountain pen hospital. Like I, I would be almost scared to go in there, right? Because I'm not getting out of there for cheap. And, you know, I think I have some, some things that are like specific for them, you know, inks or pens and things like that. And yeah, by the time, you know, I hit all these other spots, I would be broke before I even got to,

June Thomas: I know.

Brad Dowdy: I'm in hospital.

June Thomas: That's, that's, I mean, partly I've never been there because I'm a little afraid. That's, I have to admit that. Like, it's just, I know that that could be, excuse me, that could be a bigger problem.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. But they also have, I'm afraid and I'm into that.

June Thomas: Exactly. Exactly. Part of the problem is that they also have, um, their hours are a little, uh, unusual for New York. Anyway. Um, they're, they're sort of, I think it's something like seven 30 to five 30 and they're not open on weekends. Um, so they, it's, you know, they kind of make it easy for me not to, not to give into temptation there, but I'm super curious. I, I must go there sometime.

Brad Dowdy: So you, you put on the list and it's harkens back to, to, to my story about stopping by some of these, uh, big university bookstores too. Right. I would be all over that because they tend to have a lot of the technical stuff for like architect engineering. And then they have a whole full section for art supplies for any of the art schools. And just kind of this paper that some professors requested special to have in there. And you end up finding all this random stuff, which is why I love university bookstores so much. I will always stop at university bookstores.

University Bookstores

June Thomas: Absolutely. University bookstores are like some of the best stationary stores as well as the best bookstores. The NCI used to live in Seattle and Seattle's new bookstore is, I would say, bar none, the best, uh, stationary store in Seattle. And Seattle has a key no cunia. So, you know, it's, they can be good. Uh, NYU's bookstore isn't on the level of the new bookstore in, in Seattle at the university of Washington, but it's definitely worth, um, you know, again, it's not going to be your first stop on your stationary tour, but don't sleep on it. Um, nor should you sleep on the many museums, um, have really good stationary. I recently did a, uh, a story for Condé Nast Traveler about, um, the best museum stores. Now, mostly this was kind of a holiday gift guide kind of piece, but I was reminded because I sort of systematically went to a whole bunch of museum stores in a concentrated period of time, that there are some really good stationary finds in museum bookstores. Um, so the Cooper Hewitt, uh, museum, um, which is a design museum and it's uptown. So again, it's a little bit away from most of the other, uh, bookstores. Um, or stationary stores, but, um, they have really good stationary. Um, and partly because one of the things that they do is they have this thing, uh, within their museum store, which is a fantastic museum store called the kiosk. And this is actually kind of a, it's almost an outside store that's in there. And one of the things that the kiosk does, I think it's in Soho, is bring together stationary from around the world. Um, um, so from there I bought, um, um, a small, uh, unusual notebook from Mexico, which, you know, couldn't get anywhere else. Um, they, they, they'd gone to Mexico and picked up these notebooks and then they have them for sale in their store and also in the Cooper Hewitt store. Um, MoMA store, the MoMA design store, um, not the one actually at the MoMA museum, but, um, there's a separate design store in Soho. They actually have a Muji branch inside, but they also have other kinds of, um, stationary. So again, not your first stop, perhaps if you're focusing on just getting a bunch of like the best stationary, but definitely worth a visit if you have, you know, a number of days.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So it sounds like, for my New York trip, I need to plan on two or three days and a completely empty suitcase. Exactly. When I come, because I'm coming back with so much stuff. Did you, did you have, did you have a hard time coming back? You didn't buy too, too much, but you, you spent over a hundred bucks at, at Caroline store, Myke, didn't you? Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I did. Well over there actually,

Brad Dowdy: but it was small things luckily. Right. Yeah. So like I would go to, there's no store on here that you have, mentioned June that I would not put on the list is like, they all have these great unique things. And now I'm just, all I want to do is like, go look at the calendar and figure out when, when I can get up there.

June Thomas: You gotta do it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you are planning, um, another trip this spring, right?

June Thomas: Yes. I'm very excited.

Brad Dowdy: Is that something you can, you can talk about? Because we might, we might have to revisit, um, this, this tour of a different place. Um, if you, if you can spill the beans.

June Thomas: Yeah. Well, this is not an, I'm no, I know there are people in the chat room who are more expert on this than me, but I am going to Japan in, uh, March, uh, to Tokyo. And, um, I've been there before and spent, I swear, half of my time. It was sort of a work pleasure trip. I was writing, I was doing a travel series about, you know, craftsmen in Japan, but I also spent about half my time in fantastic stationary stores there. And I picked March because apparently in March, there are several fountain pen fairs, uh, that happen in the big department stores. Um, and I'm also going to be writing an article about Nakaya, uh, for a big, uh, magazine.

Myke Hurley: Get out. Yes.

Nakaya Headquarters

June Thomas: So I'm going to be, uh, you know, going to the Nakaya headquarters and also spending time with them at, um, at one of the big fountain pen fairs that they'll be attending in March. So I am super psyched about that. And I think this is an occasion where, uh, it's, it's been helpful for me now in terms of avoiding purchases because I like, why would I buy things here when I'm going to be in Japan and I'm going to be going to have access to all this stuff. But I'm a little bit afraid of what it's going to do to my bank balance.

Myke Hurley: You're going to spend an awful lot of money for spending that amount of time on Nakaya.

June Thomas: Exactly. I know. I'm terrified, terrified, but it's going to be fantastic.

Brad Dowdy: I'm like, I'm like getting chills for you. I'm so excited. So you, you're definitely coming on when you get back from that trip. There's no, there's no doubt about it.

June Thomas: I'd love it. Oh, but yeah, I mean, there's so many, so many stores and so many like special things. And it's, I just, I don't know. So fortunately, you know, when you go to Japan, you have to take Omeyagi, the little gifts that you give to people. So we will have suitcases full of those things to go and then there'll be empty. And then what can you do, but fill them. Nice. I know that will be, that's perfect. What we do. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: That is perfect. Well, this has been spectacular. I'm like, I'm like jacked up to go to New York and to, to see June and to hit all these shops. I, I, I've got to get this done like soon. Um, there, there's no doubt that this is, this is going to be on my radar like really soon. And June, you're amazing for coming on and doing this. I really, really appreciate it.

June Thomas: Not at all. Some such a, such an honor. The only downside for me is it's going to be less exciting to listen to the podcast. Now I, this is the highlight of my week every Wednesday now. So I just got to listen to my own voice droning on and on and on.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I do that sometimes, you know, sometimes, sometimes I skip it. Most of the times I listen, but, uh, yeah, I know what you're feeling. The people who listen in the live chat room kind of, kind of do the same thing. They're like, well, do I listen again now? Yeah, I guess I do. Well, thanks so much. And we will be in touch very, very soon. And we will have you back on sooner than later. Um, and if, if not before Japan, definitely after.

June Thomas: All right. That sounds fantastic. Right.

Myke Hurley: If you want to find the show notes for this week's episode, head on over to relay.fm slash pen addict slash one 89. I've collected a bunch of links about all the places that we've spoken about, um, this week's episode. If you want to find Brad online, of course, you can go to knock.co and pen addict.com. He is at dowdy is on Twitter and pen addict on Instagram. I am at I Myke. I am Y K E June. Where can people go to find you?

June Thomas: Um, I'm at June Thomas on Twitter. Um, and I think that's probably the best place.

Myke Hurley: Awesome. Um, and thanks again to pen, Chalet and Squarespace for sponsoring this week's show. And thank you for listening. We'll be back next time. Until then say goodbye guys. Bye guys.

June Thomas: Bye guys.