The Pen Addict 175/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	175
Title:	Kremlinology
Release Date:	October 5th, 2015
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 175
Audio File:	Audio Episode 175
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 175
Length:	6161 min <br />1.017 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 175. This week's episode is brought to you by lynda.com and Fracture. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by the wonderful Mr. Brad Dowdy.

Brad Dowdy: What's up, Myke? How are you?

Myke Hurley: I'm very good. How are you?

Brad Dowdy: I've had a weird week. I felt like last week's podcast was only a week ago, but I felt like I've missed you this week. It seems like it's been like weeks again. Maybe I just haven't been, we still haven't been on our normal schedule like every week, like we had a two-week gap there. I don't know. I just felt like I hadn't talked to you much in the past week and then the podcast is here and I feel like I missed you. Is that so wrong for me to say out loud?

Guest Discussion

Myke Hurley: Not at all. And I think it's because we had a great guest last week, but when we have a guest, you know, it's not just me and you. I'll tell you something funny that happened to me earlier. So somebody tweeted at me and says, I don't understand how you can make a podcast about pens. That is that it's 174th episode. Seriously, how? And I tweeted them back and said, how do people make podcasts about phones?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, it's the truth. And when you say it like that, it's even like more weird. The phone podcast that makes the pen podcast seem normal to me.

Myke Hurley: It's all the same kind of stuff. The guy was, you know, the guy was very nice and he was like, you know, it's like, I do want to check it out. So I will, but surely you can understand my bewilderment, which I totally can. But like the point of it is like, we love this stuff and there's always new stuff to talk about every single week.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Just, I was listening to the talk show last night, the latest episode with John had Marco on. And Marco was talking about what podcast does he listen to? He's like, you know, I can listen to the regular stuff anytime, you know, like the big production, NPR, you know, tell me a story about something that's happened. But I'd rather listen to like the small, niche-y stuff where I'm going to like really get into it and learn the ins and outs and the nuts and bolts of someone getting like really obsessive about the little nitpicky things. And that's the podcast I want to listen to. And that's, I was thinking, well, that's, that's right where we fall into the, into the grand scheme of things in the, in the podcast world. Right.

Myke Hurley: Yep.

Brad Dowdy: I thought that was, I thought that was well said by him. And that's the kind of stuff that I listened to as well. You know, I want to hear, you know, the really, really specific particular things instead of the large general topics. Right.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. That's what we listen to. And it's what we like to make. Like it's as simple as that. And that's, that's what I love. And I wouldn't want it any other way.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Yep. So. So. Hooray for us.

Myke Hurley: Hooray for us indeed. So I, I have to own up that I did a, an inadvertent bad thing to you. You know what it is, don't you? Mm-hmm. So.

Brad Dowdy: And I'm going to tell you right now, I wasn't even going to go there. How was that? I mean, you're probably surprised. You probably thought I was going to kill you. I wasn't even going to mention it.

Myke Hurley: No, I didn't. Cause you didn't mention it at all. And you're a nice guy. So. So. But we haven't mentioned this and I'm, I'm annoyed that we haven't mentioned it. We, uh, well, well, I'm going to say I was right because I expected it. And you know, people know Myke is right. Um. Retro 51 are actually making those pens for Apple. Yes. We were talking about this a couple of weeks ago. Like, it's not just like, uh, they're using them at the same store. It's not just like they're doing it on the quiet. Like retro 51 had some press that went out like the day after. And they were like, yeah, we, we, we've, we've been making these pens. And then I kind of went into overdrive mode and realized that Jason was going to be in Cupertino. So I was like, Oh, can you grab me one? Jason Snell. Jason Snell from, uh, from Upgrade at Relay FM. And I totally forgot to ask to get one for Brad. And I feel really, really bad about it because Brad then arranged, I don't know how to get them. And he got one for me. So I feel so bad and I'm really sorry.

Brad Dowdy: Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, uh, apology accepted. I, I figured it was a case of you having ants in your pants.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Because he was going the next morning.

Brad Dowdy: And you're just like, Oh my God, I gotta have this pen. I mean, you wanted it from the, from the jump. I mean, the minute we saw the picture is like, Oh my God, this is like, you know, my two worlds colliding in the most epic way.

Pen Purchase

Myke Hurley: Right. Like this is, this, this is like one of the most important pen purchases for me. This is as perfect a pen for me as there has ever been.

Brad Dowdy: Right. So like, it actually worked out in your favor because, uh, Jason, you asked Jason to get you the silver one. And then I basically said, well, you had already handled all this. I send you a DM. I think my DM was something along the lines of what color do you want? You know, it wasn't, it wasn't like, I didn't tell you the whole story. It was just basically tell me what color you want. I got this covered. And you're like, Oh, let me tell you a little story. Then you, then I was like, Oh, you jerk face. Then you're like, how about black? That's all right. So I got, um, so we had a, uh, we had an unnamed, uh, benefactor. Um, that, um, that I know this person. No, do you know this person? I didn't before the show now. So, which makes it even more special and, uh, you'll, you'll enjoy this even more. So, um, so not only did I have a deal with you that I would get one. Um, Dudek was, was hot after it because he, you know, he loves these, uh, these hex barrel pens and the style of pen. And so he said, all right, if I find one, I'll get you one. If you find one, you get me one. So I got, um, our, our unnamed benefactor was kind enough to get us three. Um, and offered, obviously offered to pay him for it. And he was like, no, no, he's like, um, I don't want you to pay for it. Here's what I want. And he says, I want you to, um, donate to, um, St. Jude's children hospital for the, uh, amount, you know, that I'm paying for these pens.

Myke Hurley: And I was like, Oh, that's just fantastic. I think I know this person is. And if it is the person I'm thinking, hopefully they know what I'm going to say to them. You are an amazing, incredible person. I think it's the same person who, if that is the case is probably one of the nicest people on this planet.

Brad Dowdy: Maybe so. So maybe you actually know him and I don't, maybe I just know him through, through listening from the show, but it was wonderful. Um, and it was perfect timing because it was the, uh, what, what, I don't know the exact name. It was like children's cancer awareness month for, um, St. Jude's in September. So I made the donation and, uh, you know, I was, that was super exciting when he said that I was like, Oh, this is perfect. Um, I would love to do that. So, um, it was a really just all around great setup for this. So, so we have, so I actually have the pen.

Myke Hurley: Oh, of course you do. Okay. So the tube that it comes in, I need to know everything.

Brad Dowdy: Sure. The tube that it comes in is solid black, except for the little retro stickers that they put on in with the skew. Um, and I don't know what they have the name.

Myke Hurley: They let them keep the sticker on.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I'll have to go look at it. It's on my desk. I didn't bring it in here because the tube is so plain. I don't think there's an Apple logo on it at all, but there's a retro logo on it. No, there's no logo on it at all. There's just the skew sticker. You know how they put the little skew sticker on the end? I'll have to go see if it says retro 51 on it or not. But then Apple's little price tag was over half that sticker anyway. So you couldn't see anything. So there's literally nothing. The tube was generic, essentially. Um, the pen itself is great. I mean, I have a hex already, um, that actually Myke Dudek sent me, I don't know, a year or so ago. Um, and it's a great pen. I love this, the shape, size, feel, knurling. Everything about this pen is great. I'm going to have to find a different refill. The refill is easily. It might be 1.2 ballpoint. Actually, let me see if it says on here. It's wide. Ooh, sorry. That's a lot of squeaking. So it's the easy flow 9000, but it doesn't say the tip size. So the easy flow is like, it's the ballpoint. Yeah. It's not the rollable, but it's what they try and put in there to make it as close as basically. Right. And it's the, um, it's the Parker shaped refill. So any Parker, uh, Parker, uh, refills.

Myke Hurley: Please stop doing that. Uh, you're going to have to suggest to me some good refills to put in that guy.

Brad Dowdy: The Moleskine gel is the, uh, one I generally use. Um, one it's gel and two, you can get it in 0.5. So that's usually the one I go for in my Parker refill pens. Okay. So there's that. So that's probably what I'll have. I don't have an extra one laying around. Um, so I'll go with this. I mean, this, this refill is great if you like, you know, smooth wide ballpoints, but this has to be a 1.2 millimeter refill. It's, it's, it's bigger than 1.0 for sure.

Myke Hurley: Interesting choice. I'm so fascinated by this because it has the, the retro 51 branding on the pen as well. Doesn't it? It has it on the clip. So I can't believe I'm really fascinated by this because who, who made this happen?

Brad Dowdy: Um, I think it's literally their black hex with just the Apple logo added. There's no additional Apple adornments. Um, and the, the retro 51 hex generally, it looks exactly like this minus the Apple logo. So I think it's just a little addition. Yeah. Who made this happen? That would be a great story to find out. Right. Uh, someone, whoever did, did a good job of, um, getting a good manufacturer to, um, to make a pen. I can't imagine. I couldn't, I don't know if I could think of a better match in a smaller company, you know, outside of a, you know, a big pilot, uni ball type thing.

Myke Hurley: Because, you know, you have to know what you're looking for. I think to find retro 51. Like, I don't think they just stumble upon them. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, they're cool enough, right? That they've got enough special editions that they might have kind of fallen into somebody's view at some point. I'm, I, if anybody out there, I mean, maybe this person or anybody who can find out how this happened. And even if you can't share it for the show, I just really want to know.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because, uh, yeah, because they could have gone, like, the only other choice I could have seen them making that would have been, uh, that would have done pretty well would have been, like, uh, going down, like, the Muji white label route. You know, because they have some, there's some Apple aesthetic looking pen designs that Muji does, right?

Myke Hurley: Of course. Or they could have just had them made. This is what I find so interesting about the whole thing. They chose retro 51 and were happy to partner with them. Right. Because they've kept the brand on it. It's very, very interesting. Um, EW had written, uh, in the chat room has suggested, uh, the well-appointed desk, of course, for the epic refill reference guide. I'll put that in the show notes. That's what we need.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. I keep that in my, uh, pin board links so I can, uh, link it to people. Um, you know, whenever they have, uh, refill questions like that, I use that link all the time. Ana did a good job. As always. As always. So the only thing I don't know about the Apple stuff is I don't know anything about the paper. I honestly wasn't interested in it because, I don't know. It's not going to be incredible. I mean, I'm sure it's fine stuff. I probably would have been like, yeah. So, um, some people are buying the paper, so let me know, you know, the ones that get the paper, let me know what you think about it and what you think it is and if they got someone to make those for them. So who knows on those. So we'll figure it, we'll figure it out.

Myke Hurley: I still have your fill notes here. I'm going to be posting them in a couple of weeks when I'm in Indianapolis.

Brad Dowdy: Okay, cool. So yeah, I sent your retro, uh, out on Saturday, so maybe you'll get it before you leave. When do you leave?

Myke Hurley: Uh, I leave, it's in a couple of weeks. I leave on the 20th.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So yeah. So you should be able to bring them with you.

Coloring Pens

Myke Hurley: But I feel like if I posted it now, it would take longer to get to you than the...

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. All right. Ready to move on? Or are you just like too fascinated with this whole thing? I mean, this is, you could do a whole show on this pen, I'm sure.

Myke Hurley: I could. The criminology of it, you know, I could go on forever, but you should probably move forward.

Brad Dowdy: We haven't had a good criminology, uh, probably since, uh, what, the scribble?

Myke Hurley: Yep.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, the visionary and the scribble. Yeah, yeah, really dig into it. All right, so I got my, um, my grown-up coloring pens in. So I had the book, The Secret Garden. We both got The Secret Garden. I got the, uh, Statler Triplus Fineliners in this weekend. And I started coloring and it's, I really enjoy this. And people were asking, you know, what I felt, you know, how did I like it? You know, what pens was I using mostly was the main question.

Myke Hurley: What did you get? How many of the Triplus did you get?

Brad Dowdy: 20 pack. And I already feel like I needed the 30.

Tombow Pens

Myke Hurley: Still got the 10, man. The Colt pens. You're killing me.

Brad Dowdy: Well, cause they're, it's just a hot item right now. So I noticed one particular thing when I was doing this. It's that, so I was sitting at night, you know, no one was around sitting at my desk. Music was playing. I had a beer sitting on the desk. I was drinking and I was coloring. I could hear myself breathing. It was like noticeable. I like never think about that or never hear that type of thing. It was like, I was just taking these nice, slow, relaxing breaths as I'm like super focused on the coloring. And it was like, it was so stark of a contrast from what I would normally hear in my head at that time that I noticed it. So it was, I just thought that was something I wanted to bring up. It was like noticeably calming to me, like the pace and the sensation of my breathing. So I don't know. It, it, it definitely fired off something pretty positive. Um, when I was doing it, I, I'm looking forward to continuing down this path and I will say it takes forever. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: Your work is way fancier than my work. You're doing like shading and stuff.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. That was like, I don't know. Well, the picture we're talking about in the show, we'll have it in the show notes. That was like a good hour and a half worth of work or something like that. It was well over an hour and I colored like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight leaves. And that, that's what a 10th of the page. If that maybe 5% of the page.

Myke Hurley: Yep.

Brad Dowdy: So yeah, it's going to take me, I can't even imagine filling up this whole book, but, uh, that's what I got kids for. They're going to help me out with this.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So I've skipped onto a new page. Um, cause I like more like the abstract leaves and plants as opposed to like a setting. And one of the pages I put a link in the show notes, uh, for me too, um, which has like a, an Instagram link and then a Twitter link. So you can kind of see what I was doing this weekend. Uh, it's just a circle of just plants in a circle. Right. Um, so I do the coloring when I'm editing stuff. So when I'm audio editing, because during those times, it's like, I kind of have to be, well, I have to be at the computer. I have to try and reduce, um, all of the, you know, distractions and stuff like that. Right. Uh, so the best thing for me to do is not to be looking at like Twitter and stuff like that. So when I'm coloring, I'm just sitting there and I've got the coloring book in front of my keyboard and my mouse and I'm just sitting there coloring. And then when I hear something I need to fix or I want to change, just grab the mouse, you know, like I press pause and I grab the mouse. I just do what I need to do and then just press play and go back to it. So I, as you, you will see, uh, from kind of where I started. So the Instagram photo, I'd done a little bit. I think I'd done just the, like the, you can kind of see if you look at the Instagram photo, the blue.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, it looks really good.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So you, thank you. So you see, like I did a few leaves and then, but, and then over maybe about five hours, I think it was maybe, maybe four or five hours. I did the rest because I was editing cortex, which takes a very, very long time to do because of the way we do that show. So, uh, it was, it's really nice. It's a really nice thing for me to do. I feel a lot better doing that than sitting and playing a game or whatever. Um, it just feels like a more, the whole thing is much more calming. I think. Mm-hmm.

Brad Dowdy: I love how you like colored, like all kind of in the same area and then you colored the bug way over off to the left. I think that's pretty funny.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I don't know why I did that, but like I saw the little bug guy and I was like, you need to be colored in immediately, sir.

Brad Dowdy: Can you believe this is the conversation we're having?

Myke Hurley: I know, but you'll see, you might, you might see if you, if you, if you zoom in how like I try and identify plants that are the same and color them the same.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: See that?

Brad Dowdy: I know. I've actually thought about this. I was like, should I do like, should I have like a concurrent theme running all through the, through the, um, through the drawing? But yeah, I did like you, I just jumped around. I didn't start at the first page. I found, uh, um, a drawing that I wanted to, to do, you know, about 10 or 15 pages in and just jumped in on that one. You know, certainly don't need to go in order.

Myke Hurley: They have a box of 20 in stock. Do they have the 30 box though? Cause that's what I need. I need.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I need. I got the 20. I was like, Oh, 20 is going to be plenty. And I'm already like, you know, I could have used the 30 here.

Myke Hurley: I actually don't think they have. Oh, 30 brilliant colors waiting for stock. Oh, what's this? No, the desktop box of 20. Hmm. I'm wondering if they just go for the 20. Cause at 30, it's going to be too many for the desk. I'm going to go for the 20. It's a pretty good set. Of Colt pens have a 200 pound.

Myke Hurley: Box of coloring. Tombows. What? Yeah. 200 pounds. It costs.

Brad Dowdy: What is it?

Myke Hurley: It's a Tombow ABT brush pen set of 96. We have a desk. Wow. It's 200 pounds.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I don't need that. No, I don't need that. I'm not that much of a pro, but I'm going for this.

Myke Hurley: I'm going to go for this. So that'll be here in a couple of days time.

Brad Dowdy: So are you using, um, are you using this iPad app that you, that you linked in here too? Yeah. So I downloaded this last night. Or digital coloring?

Myke Hurley: Because they actually have a section in the app store for like, um, I can't remember what the section was called, but I think it might've been like art for adults or something like that. Okay. And there were two apps, um, for, uh, coloring for grownups. And one of the apps I've tried in the past, but this one, I quite liked it. It's called recolor. Um, and I'll put it in the show notes. It's very simple. I mean, look, it's nowhere near as good because you're just tapping, right? You just tap, tap, tap, tap. It's nowhere near as nice, but I can still see how you could get some of the relaxing quality of it. Um, so maybe try it out if you're interested. But my feeling would be to, yeah, go get some, some pens and some paper and go. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Like my, my daughter is all excited about the, the coloring thing. And she also, you know, has uses one of our iPads at the house and she's like ran up to me. She's like, dad, check it out. And she had found one of these coloring apps and she was like in, you know, clicking through it and color and everything. So she's pretty excited about that too. So yeah, that's neat.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I just thought it was a thing that I saw. It looked pretty cool. So I kind of went, I just thought, oh, we'll have a play around with this and it's fine, but it's not really like the real thing. I'm interested in, in suggestions for other books at some point, but I've still got a long way to go through this thing.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. So I, I mean, I'm waiting for the, um, whatchamacallit, uh, the ocean one. I just, I didn't want to wait until the end of, end of September. Um, I mean, end of October to, to get, um, the new coloring in. So I was ready to, I don't know. I was just kind of ready to, uh, to dive in and see what it's all about to see if it's something I'm going to like. And then, uh, lost ocean, I think is the one, um, that I'll be getting at the end of October. And then I'll probably pass this, uh, secret garden one over to the kids and let them, uh, just go to town on it.

Myke Hurley: Our show is so weird.

None

Brad Dowdy: What?

Myke Hurley: Our show is so weird.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Like if you dropped in now, like, I don't know that we'd get any new listeners. I'd be a little bit concerned.

Myke Hurley: I have to say though, like people that I'm mentioning this to, like in my average daily life, it's like, yeah, I've heard about this. This is a big thing now. So this is actually probably the most mainstream we've ever been. Yes.

Brad Dowdy: In a weird way. We actually have a question about this at the end in the, the ask TPA section. We actually have kind of a, uh, a question about it. I don't even know if I wrote it down, but yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll talk about that some more. Well, let's talk about it now real quick. So the, the question in general was, you know, what do people think when you tell them that you do this, right? That this is a thing by you. Like what's the crate? Have you had like any, any reactions that have just been weird or odd or anything like that? Other than just like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Myke Hurley: That seems to be the, everyone that I've shown this to or spoken to about it is saying that this is a thing that they're seeing that people do now. Like this has been the least like weirded out people are about the pen stuff.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yes. I will agree with that. The more, the longer we do this, the less weird it is for the outsider. It's getting more in the mainstream, if you will.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: At least, at least in the ancillary places, you know, not necessarily, it's not like super prime time stuff, but you know, it's getting, you know, you're seeing articles in the New York times and just seeing some random places like that where you're, you're getting the pen and pencil.

Myke Hurley: This is even down to the point where I was talking to my mom about it. And I mentioned, um, the creator of the books, Joanna Bash, Basford, Joanna Basford. And she was like, yeah, I saw her on TV last week.

Myke Hurley: You know, so.

Brad Dowdy: That's so funny. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, we got a lot to get to, dude. I mean, this is, you know, you, you make fun of me. It's like, oh my God, what are we going to talk about? And I'm already like cutting things in our show document because, um, there's several things I want to get to. I want to get into some Kickstarter stuff. I want to get into some field notes stuff and I want to rant a little bit. So let's talk about one of our good friends and then we'll just, uh, keep plugging away.

Myke Hurley: This week's episode of the pen addict is brought to you by lynda.com, the online learning platform that has over 3000 on-demand video courses to help you strengthen your business technology and creative skills for a free 10 day trial. Visit lynda.com slash pen addict. That's l-y-n-d-a.com slash pen addict. lynda.com is for problem solvers, for people that are curious and who want to make things happen for themselves. Maybe you want to master Excel, learn negotiation tactics, understand typography and color. Maybe you're looking to learn Illustrator or Photoshop. Maybe you're looking at bootstrapping your own business. No matter what it is you want to do, lynda.com has fantastic courses taught by top experts in each of their fields who are there to feed your curious mind. You'll be able to stream these thousands of video courses on demand. You can watch them on your laptop, your PC, your Mac, your Android or iOS device. They have an app for the last two years, so you can watch them on the go. But if you do watch them on a computer, you'll be able to follow along with their transcripts. So you can read along as you're watching the video and then you can skip around to those. You can search them, click on a certain line and that will take you straight to that part of the video, which is really, really awesome. You can also create and save playlists of the courses that you want to watch to customize your own learning path and share them with friends, colleagues and team members. Your lynda.com membership is going to give you unlimited access to training on hundreds of topics, all for one flat rate. Whether you're looking to become an industry expert, you're passionate about a hobby, or you're just looking to learn something new, I would love it if you would go ahead and visit lynda.com slash penaddict and sign up for your free 10-day trial. That will also help support this show. Once again, that is lynda.com slash penaddict. Thank you so much to lynda.com for their support of this show and RelayFM.

Kickstarter Projects

Brad Dowdy: So one of our recurring themes, you know, people have listened to us for ages since the beginning. No, we generally, we'll dig into the Kickstarter stuff every now and then, and especially when there's a bunch of new products out, you know, we like to talk about them, you know, discuss them. A lot of times, people want us to discuss their validity of this, and, you know, we're certainly not the, you know, the arbiters of taste and quality and, you know, thoroughness and accuracy of these projects. But, you know, people do want to hear us talk about them, even if it's one we're not interested in. And there was an interesting one that I got tweeted out this week. It's called Chameleon Pens. Chameleon Pens. You know, it got tweeted to me saying, hey, look, it's not the scribble. But, you know, immediately when I saw this, this is like a legit product that already exists. So this is just someone making like a new brand of these blending colors. Have you seen this, Myke? Have you had a chance to look at this?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I watched the video.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so it's basically a marker set. And these alcohol-based markers, they also come with a white marker where you can blend in the colors. I put a link into the show notes, which we'll have. This is a normal thing. Like, Copic does this already. I mean, they sell a colorless blender for their pens. So, you know, I want to point, I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing. This is actually probably like a totally good product. I just don't want people to be freaking out like this is something amazingly new. You know, we want to like have a discussion about, you know, this is really good. And if it's something you're looking for, you know, definitely check it out. It looks like they've done a really good job with this campaign, actually. But it's basically a new brand coming out for something that already exists, which is cool. I think that's something good Kickstarter should be used for. And actually, you know, you probably have a lot better chance of this being a super successful project and delivering on time when it looks like, you know, the companies are like already doing these type of things. So I just wanted to point it out. I mean, it's not something I'm interested in. I don't do that much drawing. You know, I have my Copic markers that I play around with, but I'm not into the to the blending phase at all yet. But you should certainly check this out, you know, from like an artist perspective, it looks pretty cool. And you'll just have to compare it with things like the Copic and other companies that do do blending markers, you know, with their alcohol based pens. But it's a pretty common thing, to be quite honest. So it looks like comedian and is just trying to make a push into that market. And they did a really good job with the campaign. I mean, it's pretty tight, wouldn't you say?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I'm looking at that, like what they have available. And it, you know, you can get like for $400 is like 20 colors, five skin tones, five gray tones, 30 ink refills. Like they've got a whole big kit, right, which is really cool. And I like that you can kind of go in there. They've got one for $500, which is just like everything. And you can just go in, buy everything you want. And I think that's really awesome. My feeling, like I'm looking at this and I'm just kind of like, I would, I don't, I wouldn't need this. Yeah. Because I mean, you know, the idea about this is so you can add shade about needing to add colors. I never need to add shade to anything. Right. It's just not a thing that I need. Like I look at this and I wonder if the 498 people that have backed it fully know what they're getting, like every single one of them, because it kind of isn't like, you know, chameleon and changing color. They're not like color changing. Like it's only just, you know, it's more wet. So there's less color come through. And then the more that you, you know, you run the ink over the page, the nib dries out again, like the color flows back in again. That's all it is. It doesn't in one direction. Like, right.

Brad Dowdy: And it's, and it's been done before.

Myke Hurley: I mean, it's not unique, but this is one of those things that like the video, they don't make it sound like it's ever been done before. Like they make it sound like they created it. Like we spent all this time in the factory. And also like, I don't know why this happens so often, but the audio is so bad.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, but this is one where there, this is a, no, middle ground thing, no, middle ground Kickstarter for me. You're either sampling, you know, you're going to try, you know, like maybe the five pack or whatever, the small three pack, whatever the smallest one is, or you're an artist and you're going to go for like the full set. Like you see, you know, an artist desk when they have the full Copic shelf, you know, where they have like everything so you know you kind of need it all so yeah but cool i mean it looks like a legitimately good uh campaign good product and then you switch over to jeez i know the verti

Myke Hurley: the verti pin what who makes like who i need to watch i just looked at this once i didn't watch the video i couldn't i didn't watch it but i've just put it on now so i can yeah the pen is what

Brad Dowdy: it says so what are your initial thoughts on the verti pin it's a disgrace the pen has evolved

Myke Hurley: that is there that's the way the video starts yeah the pen has evolved

Brad Dowdy: so what this is the first thing i thought it was it was like the remember the polar pin that was the magnet pin i thought that's what this was going to be but it's not it's actually just basically a beaded pin that uses i mean they market it kind of like a bracelet um but you know they have people like uh wearing it on their belt and it's just uh it looks hideous i mean i like the pictures of it

Myke Hurley: like you know being worn by like a guy with a nice watch and a nice suit yeah this dude like tightening

Brad Dowdy: his tie with this thing dangling off his wrist looks like a jackass i mean i'm just it's ridiculous you know i i don't even understand what they're trying to accomplish here but they already have well that's only 31 backers for 31 backers for 6 400 okay that's that's bad math right there that i didn't see this before that's uh that looks to me like the fix is in um let me look at these pledges yeah they already have three backers at their highest pledge level i think i mean i'm not gonna accuse anybody of anything but that's bad math 31 backers for 6 400 that screams fixed to me um that they've had a plant um backer or five um which i have seen before so um yeah i think it's time to unclick off this page now that i see that that's uh super sketchy so anyway this was more of a fun thing because it's just absolutely ridiculous and uh you know if anyone that listens to our show gets one of these let me know but um y'all know better y'all know better than that right

Myke Hurley: if anybody listens to this show buys one seriously stop listening yeah you can buy one for a joke

Brad Dowdy: yeah we can't help you anymore yeah i'm gonna end up with one of these like at christmas time someone's gonna buy one and send it to me or something like that but um like it's just flat out bad looking yeah you know yeah i don't get it yeah so let's let's let's let's turn the page into something that's sweet as you know what looking and that's the tactile turn gist uh i guess that's where we were going with gist on this that's what i would say i don't know if i haven't talked i've talked to will plenty uh who who makes all the tactile turn stuff but you know until you say things out loud you never know exactly what the uh creator's thinking about uh um you know how the pronunciation is but uh this looks really sweet um will's been working on this for a while um you know it's um a whole range of fountain pens that he's done there's polycarbonate brass copper and titanium i believe oh and there's a bronze one also oh and a stainless steel one i was thinking there was four models jeez and there's a zirconium one too and damascus steel sections so there's like a million different combinations you can get with these pens um i just saw it when i woke up um i knew it's been coming for a while i didn't know what day it was going to launch but i love the shape and style of this pen so since there's really no early bird other than just the one polycarbonate uh that's already gone i'm just gonna take my time read through all this stuff tonight um figure out which one i want to back um i'm probably gonna back two of them because i want i'm thinking i want the titanium barrel and i might get like a polycarbonate with the damascus steel on it or something i don't know i gotta figure out since it just launched there's no hurry there's no um like uh you know quick um backer reward level that you know you need to jump in on so i'm gonna sit and figure out what i really want out of this what do you think about this pen mike looks great yeah it looks really good uh remind it's really shaped like a lami 2000 um i mean you put them side by side they wouldn't um you know you could tell the difference real easily but just the general aesthetic of it looks really nice so you know i'm gonna have to look into it you know i'm definitely not gonna do brass copper or bronze but i'm looking at like stainless titanium uh something like that i just gotta it's so new to me you know maybe we can talk about it more when i actually do purchase one or back one i should say and um figure out what combination i actually want to get but uh will is is well on his way it's just launched he's already at 177 backers 16 grand a 50 50 000 goal uh 30 days to go he's gonna hit that no problem um and uh i i look forward to to um deciphering all the options here it's gonna take some time i think you know that was the one thing will told me he was gonna do he said i think there's like 21 different combinations i was like man you're insane what are you thinking but um when you look at all of them it's like you know i can see why because there's lots of cool uh combinations you can make out of all these things right yeah i want

Myke Hurley: one of these i just don't know what i want yeah so it's it's definitely one you're gonna have to spend some time in figuring things out um i really like the way that the uh copper looks but i don't like

Pen Materials

Brad Dowdy: copper or brass i would i would tend to go for just the copper section or a brass section i would never

Myke Hurley: go for the full yeah no i mean just the section i like the way the section looks but i don't i don't like holding brass or copper because they leave the smell on your hands and i prefer not to have that

Brad Dowdy: yeah i've kind of gotten over it because i i like the pins that i have that are made like that like i use my ink very frequently um with the brass section the iron man style ink and that one doesn't smell but then i have like a um a ti2 tech liner that's full copper and that one does make my hands smell but i don't know i really like the pen it's it's just it's one of my favorite pins and i'll just deal with it you know whatever yeah the caris it's not my favorite thing but i don't know

Myke Hurley: if i don't know if the guys at caris do anything different but it doesn't leave the smell on my hands but yeah other stuff that i've used does and like yeah i'm not a big dan dan uh dan uh kisses them

Brad Dowdy: his his special uh his special kiss he's in the he's in the chat room i'm seeing if he's paying attention it's a special kiss before they leave the uh the room uh before they leave the uh the shop there especially dan coated yeah dan coated um so yeah the brass one i have no issue with the brass one he says we make it with love that's why see that's exactly what i was saying dan he was paying attention they make it with love so yeah like my brass uh my brass uh iron man ink it does not uh stinkify my hands so yeah i'm i'm all about this just i will be ordering i'm gonna say two of them just because i at least want a polycarbonate one and then one metal barrel i just got to figure out which which setup i'm gonna go with so so there's that nibs as well so that's good yes and i already have um i saw the the namisu funded today it did uh yeah um so i already have a titanium box for that i ordered a stainless i mean a steel nib with this one so i'll have plenty of nibs so i probably won't buy i'll probably just buy steel nibs for these um for the gist i probably won't buy titanium i don't need i don't have all these pins inked up at once so i'm i'm free to just swap titanium nibs between uh

Myke Hurley: between pins so yeah that's all right let's follow up on this one next week so you can tell me what one to buy because i'm i'm a bit overwhelmed looking at this right now so okay you can just tell

Brad Dowdy: me what to get yeah one last kickstarter thing uh the pin shows about 45 percent shipped according to their um according to their uh project update yeah pens p-e-n-x-o it sounds like you're saying pen show like the pen yeah i know i don't know the correct pronunciation uh pen shoe pen but anyway that uh sweet sweet uh pencil so have you have your do you have yours yet no it's on the

Myke Hurley: way though i have a shipping reference okay well it's in the uk so it should be here in the next two days i just checked it right now it's in the uk so okay well you're you're ahead of me because i don't have a shipping notification yet so i think i backed mine before you didn't i well maybe it might have been because it was they kind of got all messed up when people were changing their colors and then

Brad Dowdy: some of the colors went out and some of them well yeah that's a self-inflicted wound right they just kept expanding the color range and i will say i will say someone got their green one in and i'm kind of regretting i didn't get the green one right now it was pretty awesome looking at this point i literally

Myke Hurley: cannot remember what one i got i guess it's gonna be a surprise to me i think i got the black with the

Brad Dowdy: red i think i did i think we might have gotten the same thing yeah because it looked really great in the video yeah it really did and then that was before they started adding all this extra stuff so yeah yeah all right let's talk about one another one of our good friends and then we're going to get into some uh some field notes uh goodness yeah deep field notes stuff and badness yes and badness

Myke Hurley: this week's episode is brought to you by fracture the company that will take your favorite images and print them directly onto glass for you to proudly display or give as gifts the team over at fracture really wanted me to say thank you to all of you who have been giving fracture a chance to print your favorite photos as we said before we love fracture we love the prints that they create and i love working with them as well they are great people over there they they love supporting the podcasts and they do awesome with that and they have been a great help to us over the last few months but one of the things that i really love to do is to talk about this product because i think it is absolutely fantastic and what i love seeing is we get so much response about them on twitter people like to send us their pictures of the fractures that they order and i love to see them so please feel free to send them to me because it's nice to see the pictures that people think are important and also important enough that they're going to uh support us as well by going through fracture i think that's really awesome and the team at fracture are really passionate about helping people display and celebrate their own memories and accomplishments with the beautiful glass prints that they produce so there's a special message i need to give you this has come straight from fracture directly to you guys every fracture is printed and assembled in their fractury in gainesville florida and and that's great right with the holidays coming up and i know this sounds crazy because we're in october now but they get so busy there because they're all because i mentioned they're all hand assembled they're all hand checked there because of that they back up quick during the holiday season so if you are considering giving a fracture or two as gifts this december which you should because they are fantastic gifts you need to start making plans about that as soon as possible if you if you already know the images you'd probably want to do just buy them now so it will be all dealt with and it'll be taken care of because the closer and closer it gets to december the harder and harder it is to get in their cube to get beat to have them delivered before christmas and they really do make great gifts like i i've bought fractures of gifts myself i'm probably going to be getting some more actually i definitely am going to be getting some because it takes away me having to even think about what gifts i need to buy people this year so i'm going to be getting some more fractures so i better put my order in soon too head on over to fracture me.com to learn more and get started and if you use the code penaddict you will not only get yourself 15 off your first order you will also help support this show thank you so much to fracture for supporting relay fm and don't forget to send your pictures to me when

Brad Dowdy: you get your fractures in nice all right so we got uh we got some good field note stuff uh the past week you know aside from the um shenandoah edition which i'm i'm still enjoying very much i i've used the whatever the brightest green color one uh is i've been using it uh religiously with a pencil for of all things i think it's uh mostly pencil filled so far but there was um a great uh over on the field notes group there was a great uh ama with uh jim kudal and field notes group sorry on facebook for uh jim brian and i forget the other uh other guy that was um that was answering questions though that works there as well i apologize but um if you want to if you're a field nut like uh like i am and like mike is you know you can go check out um all these questions and you know what brian and jim have to say what insider information you're going to get did you read through that whole thing mike i skimmed it yeah i actually sat down and read through the entire thing um after it was done i wasn't around when it was actually going live but um there's some really good really good questions some really good answers um within there so if you're a field notes fan at all and want to know what uh jim and brian uh are up to you should go check it out and one of the things they mentioned in there someone said hey you haven't done um any of the the annual colors recap videos that they started to do and brian was like you know what i'm pretty sure we recorded it and never published it so what he it was like six months ago they actually made this video then until this ama they forgot to

Myke Hurley: publish it so now they've released it is that how this worked published it and on their vimeo page it

Brad Dowdy: says uploaded six months ago but they never announced that it was actually there no yeah

Myke Hurley: that's well no they never published it it just they just uploaded it and left it

Brad Dowdy: so until someone mentioned that in the ama like hey where's the where's the video from 2014 you know where you you know go through all the the things you did he's like yeah you know what we recorded that a long time ago i should probably publish that that's just priceless i mean so that video i've watched the video so i haven't seen it yet you just i didn't even know it was out so you you you

Myke Hurley: taught me something it was just 21 minutes and they cover um shelterwood uh arts and sciences ambition and uh unexposed so it was really great um that's a wide that's a interesting batch of four right there yeah that's that was an interesting year right what a year um so they uh the main kind of thing that i took away from this because there wasn't a ton of real interesting tidbits i mean one of them is that they mentioned again that they could be looking at a larger size as a standard in the future um which i please i please please guys please um i'm running low on those arts and sciences now and it's making me sad to think that i'm gonna run out of them um but it's watching these videos i love these videos so much because you get such a sense of the incredible care and attention that they put into every single one of these they tell the stories of little things that happened during the way or you know i mean i love jim and brian doing this together because they really approach these things from a very very different place um because like brian will talk about like the particulars are doing this and the particulars are doing that and then like jim kind of he breaks it down it's like the way it makes him feel and and like why he loves to do things this way and that way and it's it there's such a great pairing for it because yeah they just approach it in such such uniquely different but kind of the same way that they're plus it's great together i love both of those guys and right we really really need to try and arrange uh to have to to talk to them again i think we'll do it yeah oh for sure we i feel like we talk about this every now and then but like we did i want i want us to think of some really good reason like you know like because we could just sit and do this ama with them right like we could do that we me and you could just sit and wax lyrical with them for ages but i would love to i don't know maybe like we could we could see if they'd be interested in doing this but like trying to talk to them about from beginning to end what it takes to to create an addition that might be quite fun so here here's a brainstorm and we haven't

Atlanta Pen Show

Brad Dowdy: talked about this before maybe for the atlanta pen show next year we can fly them in and do a video

Myke Hurley: boom i would love it if they would be willing so maybe we'll make it a real a real big trip and me and you go to chicago

Brad Dowdy: oh there you go there you go that would be sweet yeah i would love to do that how about we do that

Myke Hurley: we'll put that out on the table right now before the atlanta pen show next year because i want to go to chicago i have some friends that lived there anywhere i've never been me and you fly to chicago we can maybe do it after um we if you guys would be willing to have us we will fly down to chicago and we'll spend the day with you and we'll record like a special episode of the show and maybe do some

Brad Dowdy: fun video and stuff well that'd be cool i think we we have time to work on this so uh let's start

Myke Hurley: planning i like it well we have put our cards on the table now yeah right yeah now we'll just see

Brad Dowdy: if they listen yeah now we'll know now we'll know i think i think brian listens every now and then jim will only listen if someone says hey you should go listen to this he's a busy man well there you go

Myke Hurley: guys and girls tell them they gotta listen all right so oh one thing that i picked out of the uh the ama yeah there are going to be some extra xox edition and they said to watch out for the uh an email about it sometime in the next week or so

Brad Dowdy: yeah i've actually been checking my spam filter just to make sure i don't miss that one because i i you know i'm selfish i would like to get another edition you know last time when they did it they uh limited one per household um you know which is good but they don't have many so they sell i think they sell they'll sell out the first day whenever they release the email they'll be gone

Myke Hurley: in a few hours so yeah i'm keeping my eye out for them as well because i would like some more

Brad Dowdy: because i am very greedy i am a greedy greedy person i know i know um and and i'll be asleep so i'll i'll just uh wait for the one you're gonna send me which is awesome awesomely kind i miss i miss a lot of things because i'm asleep but that's okay um also in the field notes group there was just like one of the coolest editions ever um that you know uh aaron draplin just uh run some of these editions off himself you know um seeing that he is kind of the inventor of field notes he did this one called uh ddc dead print um i forget the the mondo con is the thing that he made these for and it's it's like he's taking these old poster stocks that he doesn't use um and and made books out of them i think they're blank paper on the inside but it's just really cool covers it's like um picture some of like aaron's very detailed posters as covers for these notes i think they're just straight up

Myke Hurley: beautiful don't you mike yeah no i need you to help me with this yeah because there's been another of these have you seen the land land edition um no it's in there take a look in the document i'll put it in the document yep they look pretty much the same but they're i can't tell if they're the same i think

Brad Dowdy: they're the same they're kind of the same because he also like on the back of the land land it says dead print right so i think draplin just have stacks of unused print right he has all this cover stock and um he's running off field notes on them which is which is cool and looks like so the mondo con was an edition of 2000 i can't read what the edition of the the land land one is but it's probably same thing too so yes kind of all look like in the same run uh different belly bands um for each edition um and they look so cool i mean i would love so bad yeah i would love to get my hands on them and a lot of people would like to get their hands on them but then you have things like this happen mike so on the field nuts post on the field nuts board on facebook you know you're looking at all these fancy things and then you get a post like this so we saw the excellent editions for xoxo and nixon along with the new mondo and lan lan i haven't seen the nixon ones by the way yeah i saw them they're a more straight up kind of design okay um it says meanwhile we get shenandoah really a lot of loyal field nuts are getting the short end for their loyalty all right i just want to i

Myke Hurley: i know you're gonna go so i wanna actually i think i have seen the nixon i think jenny sent me a picture of those anyway the issue that i have with this is the we the we aspect of it like it's not i mean i don't really know i don't really know what these people are expecting like this isn't okay okay let me see

Brad Dowdy: if i can try and work this out my face is actually turning red while you're sitting here talking

Field Notes Collectors

Myke Hurley: the thing is we have turned this into a collector's game it's never it was never intended to be that way and i mean you know you could say one way or the other but it seems like the field notes uh crew they're not trying to make it more of a collector's game they're not trying to like obfuscate that but like they address that it's there right obviously because you could see that they are participating in the group they're trying to be good sports but this isn't why they create these things um because if they wanted to make them a collector's thing they'd just bump up the price a bit more right you know i don't know they could they could do anything but it would be different but they're not trying to make this a collector's thing we have made it that way and and i don't get this meanwhile we get shenandoah business like i don't i don't like it it's it's like this isn't how this works like this isn't a democracy like the field notes crew are making the books that they want to make and then they make special editions of companies that are willing to pay them the money to do it but it isn't a gotta catch them all type scenario like this isn't even this isn't a series or something like that oh i don't know i'm not i feel like i'm not fully saying what i want to say but it just it frustrates me it just really frustrates me like it's it's people oh you you go i can't do this field notes doesn't owe us anything that's there we go that's what i was looking for that whole time i was rambling away the collective us they they don't

Brad Dowdy: owe us anything and to have this self-righteous post that we're getting the short end of the stick for how they run their business and they've been nothing but amazing to the community it enrages me i've like rage typed out a response to this like three times and i just ended up deleting it i i can't i can't post it you know i said you know i i tried ever since you know we had the that what was i was doing the esterbrook and whatever that one sketchy kickstarter pin was where i was getting all upset all the time just because i was mad at how they were handling their business you know i said i'm gonna you know take a chill uh i'm losing my cool but i haven't been this upset at a post with the field nuts community since aaron draplin had to come in right in the beginning and say hey um stop emailing my mom about the stuff i have at my house you know that was embarrassing and this is embarrassing for the community i think field notes has done nothing but be extremely loyal to their fans they're not doing anything any other business wouldn't do which is that is to continue to grow their brand the best way they see fit i have faith in what they do as a business you know they do what they feel right they've never wronged anybody and to think that they owe you something is it completely scrambles my brain like getting the short end of the stick for our loyalty to the brand is just something that is so unfathomable to me that i can't understand how this comes out of someone's mouth i am super upset that brian and jim and aaron have to read this post because it just puts it's a it's a black mark on the community that's how that's how serious i feel about this that you feel that you have that they owe you something it's entitled for how they run their business it's it's super frustrating um i mean i you know i don't have a lot more to say other than that because it's really cut and dry i mean this is a black and white thing it's a ridiculous post and there's no explaining it away it's an absolute asinine post um and you know i it just to have that attitude to towards a company that has done nothing but absolutely love its customers is is beyond me so yeah so i it's been a while since i've gotten that upset about a little thing you know it's it's paper in a in a notebook but just the yeah like you said the sense of entitlement um they the the the company as a whole doesn't deserve comments like that they haven't done anything to you to deserve that and uh i just feel bad that they actually have to read that that that that makes them put up the wall right when if your customers start saying those things about it you about you uh that wall is starting to get built brick by brick and right now there's no wall between field nuts and the community as a whole but you know the continuation of posts like that they're going to start buying some bricks and some mortar and the wall is going to start to be built and then what are you going to get you know it it's that's not how we want to go and there's no reason for a post like that and uh so i'm done it's like the idea

Myke Hurley: that the guy goes on later on to say that he thinks that there should be a special edition for collectors and and that kind of thing like you know for the for the diehards but that's like you're you're basically asking them to make a notebook to not be used like it just completely goes against

Brad Dowdy: everything that field notes is about that's exactly right that will absolutely never happen and people should just just drop it it's not going to happen that's not why this don't ask them to

Myke Hurley: create a set that is just intended for people that are really crazy about the product because we can all buy them right like we can all just get access to them and buy them and like at the end of the day like if you really want these all of these will be available for you to buy you just have to set up you just have to to meet the price that the people are going to set but like what's clear now is there is no field notes book anymore that cannot be procured right because the originals are still

Brad Dowdy: flowing around yeah exactly so get over yourselves it's annoying that they were so willing to do the

Myke Hurley: ama which they don't have to do um and then and people are posting things like that at the same time it frustrates me frustrates me as well i don't like it all right so good we got that out of the way

Brad Dowdy: so let's wrap it up on on one ask uh tpa question and this is like way off off the uh off the beaten path and we'll end it up on a um on a good good positive note because i thought this was a a good question from our friend jenny at three tapes three staples and i it made me think and she just wanted to know very simply what's the most difficult part of podcasting i.e while you're recording so what's do you do you have an answer to this i kind of think i know what you're gonna say

Myke Hurley: self-confidence oh okay i thought you were gonna say nothing no the it's the most difficult thing but eventually it's not a problem anymore but yeah when you begin you have to be confident

Brad Dowdy: enough to talk right so i think the issue i have is getting ahead of myself and kind of like like i want to do a good job with each individual thing we talk about right i don't if we're gonna speak on something i want to give it my full go right i want to give that all the attention it needs and we'll finish that topic and then we'll move on to the next and sometimes i get lost in the show flow right like you know what are we going to talk about next how are we going to throw it to this how are we going to work other things in i mean i think in general we do a good job but in the end like i wonder did i do a good enough job on this one little piece right so i get ahead of myself and stop mentally working on the thing i'm actually talking about at the time and then uh and lose myself a little bit so that's that i find a little bit difficult just about the the live recording uh of the show everything else is great though i mean it's it's fun um we obviously enjoy it um we enjoy each other we we are have done this long enough now to where we kind of know you know how each other works through topics and you know kind of when the stopping points are and you know when we're jumping into things like that and um you know i did a periscope before this show and said these are all the things we're going to talk about on today's episode and guess how many of those we talked about just a handful nope zero oh right okay i said i'm going to talk about i was like doing this show and tell all these pins i'm going to talk about but i knew right when we started that there was no way i was going to be able to do those topics justice so we'll just save them for next time right so we're able to do that on the fly now but um in general there's not many difficult parts but i do get ahead of myself sometimes so

Myke Hurley: yeah i mean i agree with that um on a show by show basis but i'm assuming that that jenny is coming to this as maybe somebody that is interested um in doing this uh which is why i would say like the first thing you just need to get over is being able to talk into the microphone um and also being okay of hearing your own voice because you're going to hear it when you're editing it all right when you're listening back um but the the best way to get over the nervousness part is to record with a friend um maybe a friend in real life a friend that you've met online someone that you have you've share obviously share a passion with um and then also talk a bunch and maybe record a couple of episodes that you never intend to release to the world because you'll get used to it a little bit more and that kind of thing um and and that's that's how you kind of get to the point where you become comfortable because eventually it just becomes a conversation between some friends right right and

Brad Dowdy: then um it's okay to talk with your hands even though no one can see you yeah that's perfectly fine i'm doing it right now i wave my hands all the way around while i'm talking as long as you don't hit the microphone you're all good yeah i should do it uh that would be a really bad periscope of just me recording the podcast and my hands would be waving i've done that before i did that with meerkat actually oh cool cool all right well this is a fun episode we had lots of good topics to talk about today and we have uh even more already saved up for next week it's the easy job so yeah we want to hear your feedback um so tell them tell everyone uh how they can get in touch with us mike you can go

Myke Hurley: ahead and tweet at us uh i am at i like i m y ke on twitter and brad is at dowdyism d-o-w-d-y-i-s-m and of course brad writes over at penaddict.com if you want to find the show notes for this week's episode you can go to relay.fm slash penaddict slash 175 thanks again to our friends over at fracture and lynda.com for helping support this episode but most of all thank you for listening and we'll be back next time until then say goodbye brad goodbye brad

Brad Dowdy: you you