The Pen Addict 112/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	112
Title:	Take Out The Trash
Release Date:	June 23rd, 2014
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 112
Audio File:	Audio Episode 112
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 112
Length:	5151 min <br />0.85 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: Hello and welcome to episode 112 of The Pen Addict podcast. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by my friend Brad Dowdy. We talk about pens, paper, and the analogue tools that you love so dearly. Hello Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Hello Myke. We do love those analogue tools, don't we?

Myke Hurley: We sure do, buddy. We sure do.

Paper vs Pens

Brad Dowdy: Do you like pens or paper better?

Myke Hurley: I like pens better, I think. Although I buy a lot more paper these days than pens, but I just buy one type of paper, so I don't know if it counts.

Brad Dowdy: Gotcha. Gotcha. So, yeah, I think pens too. At least pens are easier to review in my experience, but of course we love paper too. But I've got a few topics to cover here, but before we do that, I want to talk about the, ask you one question, the topic of the day. Should you or should you not join a podcast network?

Myke Hurley: Oh, I'm tired.

Brad Dowdy: I woke up an hour ago and I check my email and see what's going on. Then I get on Twitter and see what's going on and I can't read anything for my stupid Twitter blowing up with this stupid conversation that everyone's having. So, I just had to vent my frustration. Sorry.

Myke Hurley: I agree with most of what Marco has said. I do too. There are extenuating circumstances for different people. I think that starting a podcast network right now doesn't really make sense unless you have good reason. Yeah. And the good reason isn't just I want to do a podcast with my friends, so I have to have a podcast network. It's not necessary. Yeah. If I had two podcasts, like if I was starting out today or like if I only had one show or two shows, I wouldn't, they wouldn't be on a network. Yeah. It's just not necessary. But when you've got a bunch of shows like I do and you're collecting them together, I think it makes sense.

Brad Dowdy: Wow. I really didn't expect you to answer.

Myke Hurley: This is the only place I've actually given an answer. I've purposely not tweeted about it or answered anything.

Brad Dowdy: I know. I know. Well, it's not a black and white thing, so I don't know why people are trying to make it that way. But anyway, I was frustrated when I woke up because that's all I saw in my Twitter feed and all I wanted to talk about was pens and paper. So, let's do this. So, last week we had our friend Josh Ginter from The Newsprint and got a lot of good feedback on his episode. He did a great job. And then like the next day afterwards, what shows up on the front page of the Field Notes brand website, boom, his arts and sciences review. So, I was pretty happy to see that. I thought that was kind of cool. Hopefully we played a little part in that. Maybe we did. Maybe we didn't. But I'd like to think we did. And I was excited for Josh because that's kind of a big deal. And especially, you know, for someone still, you know, trying to get a foothold in the blogging world. So, that was pretty neat, I thought.

Myke Hurley: It was great.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. And have you been using your arts and sciences any this past week?

Myke Hurley: A little bit. A little bit.

Brad Dowdy: Is it fitting into your routine?

Myke Hurley: No, because I don't expect them to. Yeah. It was like I said, like I use them sporadically. Yeah. But I had some like sort of longer notes that I had to take. So, I gladly used the arts and sciences where I maybe wouldn't have before. Like I would have just used a few pages in the regular book. I wanted to try them out. And I'm really happy. Yeah. I love them. I absolutely love them.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And that's kind of how I use them too. It's more of a... What's the word? It's a complimentary notebook.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good way to describe it.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Yep. So, last week I read an email that I hope the listeners didn't think was too long. Because I have a longer one this week, Myke. That I really enjoy the reader feedback we get. And it makes me all warm and fuzzy. So, I feel like I should share the cool ones that we get from time to time. Because you don't always see these either. So, I want to share them with you too. Yeah. Just for the listeners, this is the kind of thing, you know, this is the why we do this podcast type of thing that I just enjoy seeing. And it makes me excited to see. So, this is an email from Rob. And let me read it to you. The subject line just says, thank you. It says, Brad, I wanted to drop you a quick line about how things have moved over the last number of weeks since coming across your podcast. And a brief pen-related story. In short, a few weeks back, I heard you on Gear Geeks Live and went searching for your podcast just for fun. I listened to a few episodes and started poking around on JetPens and a few other sites. Back in college, I had a cheap cartridge-filled fountain pen that I used once in a while and figured I would order a pen and some ink to have some fun. After reading your site, I went to the top of your no-brainer list and ordered a TWSBI 580 RB and a bottle of Conpecky ink. Once in hand, I was blown away how nice it looked and felt. And to do the pen justice, how I focused on my penmanship. Not to get too heavy, my mother's been ill. And during a recent drive from Atlanta to Pensylvania last week, I ended up listening to a number of the older podcast episodes. While talking with my mother about various topics from her health to memories past, for whatever reason, I mentioned that I recently started using a fountain pen. Immediately, her eyes lit up and she said while she was organizing, cleaning out things in her house, she found her old fountain pen she used to take shorthand when she worked for the FBI. How cool is that?

Myke Hurley: Oh, wow.

Brad Dowdy: She mentioned she was going to throw it away, but for whatever reason, held on to it. I let her use the 580 and she immediately picked it up and signed her name gorgeously without a skip or a scratch. She then went to her desk and came back with an old Parker 21. While I did not have any ink on me that trip, I did flush the 21 of ink that probably dried up 30 years ago or more. I'm heading up again the week of 4th of July and plan to take a few samples of ink so she can pick her favorite and enjoy the pleasure a fountain pen can bring. Is it a coincidence that about the time I found your podcast that she came across her old pen? We certainly had a great time talking about its history, how she learned shorthand with a fountain pen from the nuns in Catholic school, and a bunch of other fun memories. Just wanted to share this and say thanks for the great job you and Myke do. Regards, Rob. That's pretty amazing.

Myke Hurley: What a great email. Thank you, Rob. Yes. Thank you for sharing that.

Brad Dowdy: Thank you, Rob. And I'm glad we found several times now that people are finding this podcast, listening and enjoying it, then finding this connection with other people. Most of the time, their families, parents, siblings, other things like that. And it's just a really cool thing that you can share with other people that are, like with your parents, it brings back all these memories just flowing back into their brains and remembering how much they used to love fountain pens. Because back in the 50s, 60s, people were using these. That's why you can find lots of Parker and Estabrooks, because they were making them by the millions. That's what people used back then. And then, you know, they get long and lost and forgotten. And it's cool to see the resurrection of some of these old pens and memories. So that was very cool. So thank you, Rob.

Brad Dowdy: On the Kickstarter front, I missed this one a couple weeks ago, Myke. And I think I did anyway. I actually went back through the show notes because I thought I talked about it. But it's the MagNote notebook. Yeah, I saw these. So I'm hoping I'm not repeating myself here. I don't think I am.

Myke Hurley: No, no, we haven't spoken about this.

Notebooks

Brad Dowdy: Okay, so a bunch of people have sent me the link to this. And I looked at it. And what it is, it's a set of three notebooks. And basically, or maybe it might be four. I don't know if there's a quantity. But basically, the binding has magnets in it. So these three notebooks will kind of snap in together. And you can carry them all as one. They separate individually. But you can stack them and sort them and carry them as one. These are by the guys that did, they're called Orange Monkey. They did the Foldio, the little iPhone light box thing that I ordered. Yeah, Orange Monkey. Which they did a really good job on the Foldio. I was really happy with this. And a bunch of people wanted my input on this MagNote. And there's really nothing to say. I mean, it's just a notebook.

Brad Dowdy: It seems it's fine. They have, it is nice that you can pick and choose your options. You can choose the type of paper you want. You can even do a, you can have a planner, a blank line graph. I think they might even have a dot. I can't remember. No, they don't have a dot.

Brad Dowdy: I just don't see the functionality of the magnet piece of it. But if you want to buy a notebook and help support these guys, it seems cool. But I just don't see the additional benefit of having these bound by magnets to keep them all together. Do you see that, Myke?

Myke Hurley: I don't, I don't get it. You can just stack them. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I mean, the things that they're doing that are interesting is some of the decisions that they're making with the way that they're doing their paper. Exactly. That's more interesting to me in the way that they're doing the interesting sort of like, the little paper stars. And they've got that little clock. What's that clock calendar thing?

Brad Dowdy: Well, I always relate it back to the chronodex, which I first read about from Patrick Ng's inscription. But they're calling it, God, they're just calling it the mag planner. But it's basically, it's a clock-based planner. They're calling it the time circle. So it's basically this circular to-do kind of app, scheduling planning to-do kind of app. And I've never read the whole theory behind it. But it's popular in certain different formats. So they're having some pre-printed. You can get a notebook pre-printed with their time clock system. Or time circle system, I should say. But yeah, if you look up chronodex, it's the same type of system. And I don't know the full origination behind it. You know what? We need to get Patrick Ng on here one day. That guy would be an awesome guest. I'm writing that down right now. Patrick Ng. Expect an email from me. I don't even know. I don't think he listens. But I will be calling you. Yeah, maybe we can learn more about the chronodex system. It's really cool looking. I don't... It seems like it's got a high barrier to entry. But I could be wrong. If anyone...

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I look at it and think it looks cool. But I have literally no idea what I would do with it.

Brad Dowdy: If any listeners out there use a chronodex type system, email me. I just want to learn about it. And tell me if it's functional for you. Because every time I see a picture of one in use, I'm like, man, that's beautiful. It makes this beautiful output. But I don't know the function... I don't understand the functionality of it. So...

Myke Hurley: Do you know someone who might be trying it? Hmm? Our friend Joshua Ginter. Ginter. Yeah. I felt when I googled... That's right. Chronodex.

Brad Dowdy: That's right. He has... That he wrote. He has done a post on that before. So, uh... We should have asked him. That guy. That's just more reason to bring him back, uh... Next time.

Myke Hurley: You just won't go away now.

Brad Dowdy: I know.

Myke Hurley: Back off, Josh. These people, huh? Ha ha ha ha.

Pen Reviews

Brad Dowdy: Alright. So, we got a... What I want to do today, Myke, is since we haven't had a show where just you and I talk about just pens in a long while, I don't think. Um... I want to do that today and kind of go over some recent pen and pencil reviews I've done. Get your input on some of them. And, um... I... You know, answer some questions that people had about some of the pens I've, uh... Reviewed recently. So, before we do that, we have a pen blog of the week. And I cannot believe... This hit me yesterday when I was putting these show notes together. How has Gourmet Pens, our friend Aziza, not been pen blog of the week?

Brad Dowdy: Um... It's a grave oversight. It is a grave oversight. She's been around forever. Her tagline on her about page is good old fashioned crazy. And that's pretty much right. Um... If you ever talk to Aziza online, she's just always positive. Always, um... Has good spirits about her. Does a great job with reviews on her website, Gourmet Pens. Which you can find at gourmetpens.com She's, uh... She's got all kinds of good things up there right now. And, uh... She's reviewing the Tactile Turn, Shaker. And she does all kinds of ink reviews. Um... She's a big fan of the, uh... Pink Bolt Carers Customs. That she always, uh... Teases me about. And Dan always teases me about. Because I actually like how that looks a bunch. So I'm gonna have to get Dan to get me one of those Pink Carers Customs Bolts. I figure that's about the most manly pen you can get right there. It's a... It's a big, strong pink pen. And it's awesome. I love it. Um... So yeah. Check out Aziza's site. And, uh... She's another one that I've said, Myke, in the past. I gotta get her on the podcast. So... I gotta... I gotta a lot of work to do lining up these interviews.

Brad Dowdy: So I'm gonna get on that.

Myke Hurley: Please do.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: All right. So I'm gonna get into some... Some reviews I've done recently. And get your opinion on them. And the first one, I think, is probably... It might be the most divisive out of this whole thing. It's the Rotring 800+. Now we talked about it when Rotring released it... Mmm... A month ago. Maybe two months ago. They started... You know, they did their PR push where it showed up on all these gear and gadget sites all at one time. And then they became available. And I think I asked you about it then. It's basically the traditional Rotring 800. Which... Rotring does three mechanical pencils. I think it's a... I'm gonna butcher the first one because I'm not looking at it. I think the first one's a 300. Which is a knurled grip with a plastic barrel. Then the 600 is the classic full brass barrel with the knurled grip. And the 800 is also the brass barrel with the knurled grip. But it has a retractable sleeve for the pencil lead. So you can... You know, if you're carrying the pencil in your pocket or you're not using the pencil... You don't have to be afraid of dropping it and bending the pencil sleeve. Because that'll pretty much trash it right there. So that's what the Rotring 800 does. It retracts the pencil sleeve. And in the Rotring 800 Plus... What they've done is where you retract the pencil... They've added a stylus tip to it.

Brad Dowdy: Now, what were your thoughts on this when you first saw this? I remember talking about it. And I think we're both on the same page. Neither one of us are big combo pen stylus fans. Or pencil stylus fans, right?

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I'm not... It's just not really something that I'm interested in, to be honest.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I don't... It's a good idea. I mean, they did it... Well. Like, they... The actual execution is decent.

Brad Dowdy: The... Lead sleeve... Pops out through the... Stylus tip.

Brad Dowdy: It looks okay. It... It came out okay, I guess. I just don't see the need for this. Except for very... Specific use cases.

Brad Dowdy: You know, something like a client meeting. Where you're having to bounce back and forth from maybe like a tablet to paper. Or something like that. But on daily use, I would think you're going to have the pencil out. You're going to be using that. And then when you're done with the pencil, you're probably going to put it away. I don't know that the... The stylus really adds a lot. Some people like the 800 just for the retractableness of it. I'm pretty much going to always recommend the Rotring 600. Even though it doesn't retract. It's just so good looking. And I don't like the gold trim on the 800 series. If they made that in silver, maybe I'd change my mind. But I think the 600 series is just a more solid pen. That's the... The pencil, excuse me. That's the one I reach for the most. I have the 600 and 800+. I'll reach for the standard 600.

Brad Dowdy: Way more than I ever will the 800. I've actually been carrying the 800 with me. Just to see if I would get some use out of it. And I'm not. It's in one of my pen cases. And I just rarely use it. I'm actually using a wood case pencil over this pencil. So, I don't know.

Myke Hurley: I mean, I just can't go back after using the Kurutoga and that system.

Brad Dowdy: And that's the other hang up. That works so well. Especially for everyday use. The Kurutoga does. Again, you know, a very specialized artist, architect, drafter will want more of a line variation of a non-rotating lead.

Myke Hurley: Okay.

Brad Dowdy: Outside of the Kurutoga. But for just people in general, the Kurutoga, I think, is probably the best on the market. But the only people who don't enjoy the Kurutoga, who need that, you know, need shading or need a line width variation. And they would have to manipulate the Kurutoga too much. That's the only negative I've ever heard about the Kurutoga. Otherwise, it's brilliant. And I think that's still probably the go-to pencil. After that, I think I would go straight for the Rotring 600. I like the 800. I see the usefulness in it. It's just something about the 600 that's more simple and better looking and almost better feeling and better functioning. So, I enjoy the 600 more than I've enjoyed the 800. And I like the 800.

Brad Dowdy: One pen I just reviewed last week, I think. The Kaweco Lilliput Brass Wave fountain pen. This pen knocked my socks off. There's no two ways about this one. We had seen pictures of the new Kaweco Brass lineup. They were doing the Lilliputs. Which of the Lilliputs?

Myke Hurley: Boy, oh boy. I hadn't seen this until now.

Brad Dowdy: So, the Lilliput is the little bitty small pen, right? It's smaller than the AL Sport. The AL Sport is kind of the perfect pocketable size because it gets, when you post it, it gets to practically a full-size pen. So, you know, it's a very normal writing experience when you're writing with an AL Sport. The Lilliput is probably half the width of the AL Sport, just, you know, for a reference point. I'm sure that's not an exact measurement. But it's much smaller than the AL Sport. And to post it, you have to actually screw the cap on the end of the barrel. And then that makes it a full-size pen and you're able to write with it. But it's a much narrower barrel. So, they came out with these brass ones. I started seeing pictures of them a few months ago. And they were just beautiful, beautiful. But I never saw this Wave model until JetPens got them in stock. And this is not normally something I would go for. I generally prefer the smooth brass. You know, just a standard smooth pen. And that's an option. But I said, let me get crazy and order the Wave model. And I'm fascinated with this pen, Myke. Like, it's... I have the regular Lilliput, which is an aluminum barrel. It's really lightweight. I've liked it. But it almost gets lost, like, in your pants pocket. It's so light, you can't feel it. It's ended up in the laundry basket for me more times than I can think of. The Lilliput, the brass, it's not overly heavy. It's just this perfect weight. You can actually just feel it just a little bit without it being heavy in your pocket. And when you post it and write with it, it's just balanced really well. The weight is very well. It's much better than the aluminum Lilliput, in my opinion. And I've kind of fallen in love with this little guy.

Myke Hurley: It's really small.

Brad Dowdy: It is really small.

Myke Hurley: It's very good looking, but I think it's too small for me. Because I wouldn't want to post it still. You know me.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, you have to post this one. This is one you have to post. I still don't know if I would.

Myke Hurley: Because I don't post the sports.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I can sometimes get away with not posting the sports. But on the Lilliput, if you don't post it, you're basically just gripping it with your two fingers. Right? There's no... It doesn't lean up against your hand. Right? It's too short. But when you post it, you can see I have a picture. If you scroll down, it goes a good half inch past the end of your hand to a very comfortable writing. But you can see where it screws on, how it would fall short of that. And kind of be oddly uncomfortable. So you pretty much have to post this pen.

Myke Hurley: Where did you get your nib from?

Kaweco Lilliput

Brad Dowdy: So I got this nib from Sean Newton. And I talked about it a little bit in the review. So I have so many Kawekos now. And I wanted to do something different. So I've got all these Kawekos. I've got nibs in pretty much every size that they make. From extra fine all the way to broad. So the beauty of these Kawekos is the nibs are swappable between all of them. So if I want an EF in one pen and a broad in another pen and want to switch them out, you just unscrew it and put it in the other pen. So I took one of my extra nibs and I sent it off to Sean Newton to get it done into a cursive italic style. Which is kind of that fine stub that I like. It's a really sharp looking stub. And any Kawekos I use now, I can just screw this nib in and go to town. You know, if I want it in my AL Sport, just unscrew it from this little put, put it in the AL Sport. I thought it was a good idea. It's just something to have basically in stock at the house. Looks like a great line. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: And lay down thicker than usual for you though, it would seem.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, but it's so sharp. I like it. That's what I like. I really like sharp edges on my lines to like where they're squared off. The reason why I don't like a standard bold nib is because it's a rounded nib and the edges of the lines are rounded. And I don't think it's as clean for my writing style. Like if you were a cursive writer, a bold nib would be great. It would be very flowing and nice. But for my print style, standard bold nibs make my lines look worse. Something like a stub nib, cursive italic nib makes my style of handwriting look better. And it's all, it's totally personal preference. It's not for everybody, obviously. But between the extra fine Kaweco and the cursive italic that Sean Newton did for me, those are the two nibs I use in pretty much any Kaweco I have that will fit that nib. But obviously in the picture on the review, I have the Lilliput retractable. Used to be a ballpoint too. That one fits the D1 refill. So I have a Zebra Sarasa .4 gel mandarin orange in that pen. I use that pen a lot. I leave that one at my desk and I use that a lot for writing notes and things like that. So it's, I highly recommend this Brass Wave pen. It's one of the best pens I've reviewed in a while or one I've gotten more enjoyment out of that I didn't expect to. Like I thought it would just be fine and I thought I would like the brass fine.

Brad Dowdy: It's better than I expected. So, so there's that.

Brad Dowdy: The next one was a pen I didn't like so much. And this pen has a lot, there's a lot to talk about with this pen. And it's called the Craft Design Technology Chrome Ballpoint Pen. Now, this pen was sent to me by a company called Recumo. They're based in Philadelphia. And the gist of Recumo is they're kind of like a Japanese importer. Think Muji on a smaller scale. So they import goods. It could be, you know, home goods. It's not just stationary goods. They have a lot of stationary goods, but they have home goods, things like that. But they have a stationary department. And they wanted to send me a couple things from this craft design technology line. And I said, sure. And the Chrome Ballpoint, what, I guess the story should start with what is craft design technology? So they're not a pen manufacturer themselves. They're pretty much a design group that works on improving existing traditional writing stationary implements. They redesign, repackage, reimagine different products that already exist. So this was their take on the, I call this the classic business ballpoint. So, like, if you look at this pen, Myke, do you see this pen, like, you know, from the 1970s and 80s? This is the pen that everyone had, like the cross ballpoint pen, right?

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I don't like the laser etching.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. So that's one of the big, one of the big red, not red flags, but one of the issues I did not like about this pen. So craft design technology in this batch that they've designed in this past year, they worked a lot with Pentel. So a lot of their updates are on Pentel brands. I don't know how they're related, if they are related to Pentel, but every, all the other pens in this line are some rehash of some Pentel product. So this one uses the, the Pentel, what's the review name? What's the refill name? Sorry.

Brad Dowdy: It's just a, it's a Pentel 0.8, 0.8 millimeter ballpoint. It really doesn't have a specific name. So it looks like a, it's like a Parker style ballpoint refill. So you could theoretically put in some other Parker refills in there that are better than this refill. But I had a bad experience with the refill.

Brad Dowdy: It wasn't horrible. The ink is very dark, which is nice. But just like a traditional ballpoint does, it's messy. It blobs up. It spiders. Like, you know, there's like an ink line that carries over from one letter to the next sometimes. Um, but none of that is the kicker. The kicker is this pen is $65. So that's the real hangup I have with this pen. It's a fine pen. You know, I don't like the laser etching that they have. It's too much. I think I said in the review, I would have just liked to seen if either nothing or just their logo. They have this neat little CDT logo for craft design technology. I said I would like to just see that logo or nothing at all.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Pen Value

Brad Dowdy: But for the price, it is not a good value at all. I mean, it's a very expensive for what you get pen. It's very good looking. It's got some neat design elements. The best thing I like is the tip of the barrel. It's kind of faceted. It's a rounded barrel that goes into like a faceted type look at the tip. That looks nice. The feel of it's good. It's a brass pen, so it's got a weight to it. But the refill is barely average and the price is way out of line. You know, this is like a $25 pen in my mind. So it would be a challenge for me to ever recommend something like this to anyone other than, you know, it looks good. And if you want to get if you're a believer in what craft design technology is doing. And I've got some other products from them I want to review that might be a little bit more in line to reality. But it's just not a great value pen. You can do so much better. You know, we always talk about for traditional ballpoints and rollerballs, it's hard to beat a good old retro 51, isn't it?

Myke Hurley: I've been using mine. And I'm moving some stuff around and packed up some ink bottles accidentally. So and then my Franklin Kristoff ran out of ink. So in a rush a couple of days ago, I picked up my bamboo retro 51. I think I've forgotten just how good they were. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Was that the first one you ever bought? The bamboo?

Myke Hurley: No, it was the orange one.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. Okay. Cool. Yeah. I mean, that's one of those things about that's that's when you know, you've got a good pen, right? When you use a pen, you set it down, you know, you get something new. And you're using it a lot. And then, you know, a month or two later, you go back to use this previous pen. And you go, wow, this is a great writing experience. That's when you know that that's a good pen, right? That happens to me all the time. And a lot of times it's retro 51 because I don't use them every day if every week. But I always carry mine with me. And when I do use it, I'm like, man, I should use this pen more. It's so good. It's so good. I carry I still carry the vintage surf. That's the only one I carry. I love that pen.

Myke Hurley: Why don't I use my one of those?

Brad Dowdy: I don't know, man. But you're missing out because that's like one of the best in my mind.

Myke Hurley: I don't know where it is.

Myke Hurley: There's so many of them. I actually don't know where it is.

Pen Storage

Brad Dowdy: Let me totally go off topic now that you said that. How do you store your pens at home?

Myke Hurley: I have two of Dudek's products that I keep regular stuff in. I have a pen cup over there on the windowsill, which hasn't got anything really that interesting in. And then I keep them in cases supplied by some dude. Oh, yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I know that guy.

Myke Hurley: So that's why I keep sort of like I just store stuff that I don't want to have like at hand straight away. Okay. Because I only carry one or two pens out with me at a time and they just go in the Taschenberg glider.

Brad Dowdy: Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. So that's not that's not far off from what I do. You know, I have a I have a big group on the desk. I have the ones I carry. I carry more pens with me. I carry about 10 pens with me at a time in a couple of different cases. And then everything else is yet kind of stored away in some type of container or something like that.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So where's your I need a better system. But then the one I've got, I think, because like I said, I'm looking for something now and I have absolutely no idea where it is.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. I started to tear down everything this weekend and like rearrange all of my pens and inks and paper because it's getting a little out of hand. And I only got about halfway through doing that. So, yes, I need I need a better system, too. So I'll have to work on that. So where is your vanishing point stored these days?

Myke Hurley: In the sort of long term storage.

Brad Dowdy: So it's filed away. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: It's nearly a memento now because it was like the first big purchase that I made after we started doing this show. But I don't I don't like it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So my piece of history, the black mat vanishing point is gone as well. I've sold mine.

Myke Hurley: Oh, really?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So that's breaking news. Breaking news. And it's only because I got a new one from Jetpins. And I didn't think I need two of them. And I had someone that wanted one. So it was. Did you get did you get the Stormtrooper one? I didn't because I can't find the stupid thing or it's the only place that has it is cult pins. And it would cost me like three hundred dollars to get it. So. Oh, yeah. Because because why? Because no. Well, no, because it's priced higher than all the all of the rest of them. And no one can explain that to me.

Brad Dowdy: It's not a standard priced vanishing point. Even in Japan, I had someone look in Japan and they looked and they said, yes, it's even more expensive here related to the standard line vanishing points. And I've asked around and no one can give me a clear answer. Why? Number one, why can't they find it? Number two, if they can find it, why is it way more expensive? I mean, it's like 50 percent more expensive, at least than your basic standard line vanishing point.

Myke Hurley: I can't even find it on cult pins.

Brad Dowdy: It may be gone now. Well, it's not you're not looking up Stormtrooper, right?

Myke Hurley: No, I'm just looking through the line for the Namikis that they have. Yeah. They've only got that crazy one with the flecks of color in it. Oh, yeah. Maybe it's in their pilot capless rather than.

Brad Dowdy: It could be. It could be depending on what. I don't know if the pilot brand is different in the UK. Yeah, there you go.

Myke Hurley: I got it. I got it. It's £185. They have a few that are this sort of price. But the standard is £140.

Brad Dowdy: Right. So I have one of the new standard ones, which actually came out last year, and I kept delaying, delaying. I don't need it. I don't need it. Then I finally got it. It's the gunmetal matte black. So it's the gray. It's the gray body with the black matte trim. And what's cool about this one, it has the black nib. So instead of the silver nib like we have on the black matte vanishing points that we've had for a couple years, this one's got a black nib unit, and it's sweet. And I like this pen a lot. And I bought Extra Fine, which is insane on this pen.

Brad Dowdy: For vanishing points, I almost never recommend Extra Fine, unless you know what you're getting into. This is a really, really Extra Fine nib pen. I don't know how to explain it other than that. But it's got a very small, sweet spot. If you write small and slow, it's great. If you write fast and in cursive or scribbling or doing any crazy stuff, you're probably not going to like the Extra Fine nib and the vanishing point. I like it because it fits my style. I called it when I got this one in, and I haven't reviewed this one yet. And this one will actually be up sooner rather than later, probably in the next week or two. But I relate this to the Pilot Hi-Tech C of fountain pens. It's kind of got that functionality, that fineness in the line. And I've inked it up with the Sailor Nano Black ink, which is just this really awesome, rich black ink that behaves super well.

Brad Dowdy: I'm really enjoying the vanishing point again. I know you're not a fan anymore. It doesn't really fit your style and your writing style.

Brad Dowdy: This is another one that kind of rekindled my love for this pen, right? I got something new and fresh, sold off my other one, and replaced it with this one. And I find myself using it all the time where I wasn't really using my black matte one anymore. It sounds stupid, right? You get rid of a very similar pen for something that's not much different. But I'm really enjoying it. And, you know, at least I didn't hang on to the old one and add on to it. I wasn't going to get this one unless I sold the other one, even though JetPens sent this one to me and I didn't have to pay for it, I wasn't going to get it just to get it. I wanted to move out the other one, sell it, which, you know, I bought it at the Atlanta pen show in 2012, sell it, and then kind of replace it with this new one. And I'm really liking this new one. So I was a little concerned about the color when it first came out a year ago, but now that I've got it in person, it's pretty sweet. Pretty sweet. So I can't get you back on the Vanishing Point bandwagon?

Myke Hurley: No, the other thing that links the Vanishing Point and the Hi-Tech C together is the fact that I find them uncomfortable to hold.

Brad Dowdy: That is one area where we definitely differ. Like we're similar, you know, probably 80% of the time in our likes and dislikes. That's when we're on the opposite end of the spectrum on. And that's okay.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I just can't do it. I just find them both really, really uncomfortable. And, you know, in retrospect, both slightly overrated too, in my opinion.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, and no doubt. And that's why I'm very hesitant. I'm always hesitant to recommend a Vanishing Point and I'm always hesitant to recommend a Hi-Tech C. You have to be very into those styles of pens to use those and to use them well and to enjoy them and to not just flat out, I hate this pen type of thing. You have to understand what you're getting into with both of those pens. And it's funny, you know, one of them is a $3 pen and one of them is a $140 pen. And, you know, they can provide frustration just like anything else if you don't know what you're getting into.

Myke Hurley: Definitely.

Nakaya Pens

Brad Dowdy: So these last two are kind of one in the same because I got a question about these. So I got a new Nakaya that I was talking about for Father's Day and it's called the Nakaya Piccolo. It's a shorter body than the Nakaya Portable that I bought a few months back. It's a shorter body and it's a very different Arushi finish style where it's just a solid color finish. Unlike my other one, it's like a layered color. I had like a blue-green underneath and a black over the top on my Nakaya Portable.

Brad Dowdy: The Nakaya Piccolo, the one I bought, was in Kikyo. I don't know if I'm saying that right, but it looks like Kikyo Blue. It's this really great blue and I've linked to the nibs.com page. That does not do it justice at all. Number one, their picture has it with the gold trim and I got mine in the rhodium trim, which looks great. And I put a link to my Instagram picture of it. I'm guessing I'm going to review, I don't know if I'm going to review both my Nakayas together or separately.

Brad Dowdy: I'm super happy with this pen. I was more concerned about this pen than the first one just because the size is a little bit smaller.

Brad Dowdy: But it's worked out really good for me. And I got this with an extra fine nib, which is super smooth. It's very nice. I use this pen all the time. And one thing I did, I did lots of things different with this pen. One, I took a standard nib, extra fine, whereas in the previous one, I got it modified into a cursive metallic nib. Two, I'm using just straight up platinum blue black ink cartridges, which I said I wouldn't do on my other one, on my first one, on the Nakaya Portable, because I wanted to experience, you know, using different inks and using the converter and all this different stuff. So that's no big deal, really. But it's just something I didn't think I was going to do. I really, really like the piccolo size.

Brad Dowdy: And I got this one with the clips, so it's a little, I don't have to worry about it rolling off the table like I do the portable.

Brad Dowdy: I always have to set it down on the kimono so it doesn't roll off the table when I'm using it. But there's three pens that are in my most heavy rotation right now. It's the two Nakayas and the Edison Menlo.

Brad Dowdy: So now I got a question from our friend Jim Cant on Twitter. He says, I reckon you already planned to talk about Nakaya. I'd love to hear more about your Menlo. Also, use case for the fancies, and in parentheses he says home only.

Brad Dowdy: So you understand what he's asking, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Not completely.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so what he's saying is, I've spent all this money on these two Nakayas, and this Menlo is a very expensive pen. So these are your, quote, fancy pens. Are you only using them at home? What's your use case? How are you using these pens that you spent all this money on? By the way, I have to take out the trash when we're done with this. In case you heard that. I did. I did. I did hear that. I wonder what it was. That was a little Fantastical reminder for everyone out there. Take out the trash.

Myke Hurley: That's an interesting little sound. I don't know what that sound is.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I like it, though. It's the Fantastical. I have reminders via Fantastical. Anyway, so the reason why I pointed out this question about what is the use case for my fancies, which I like how he says that, is because that's how I knew I was ready to own a Nakaya when I didn't care how I used the pen, and I didn't care where I used the pen, and I didn't care how I carried the pen, and I didn't care what ink I put in the pen. It's hard to justify spending that much money on a product like a Nakaya and not using the pen.

Brad Dowdy: There's no way I was going to spend $700 on a pen and not use it or leave it on the desk or leave it at the house or use it once a week to write a letter or something like that. The turning point came for me.

Brad Dowdy: I had to be mentally ready to say, I'm going to buy a Nakaya, I'm going to throw it in my pocket, and I'm going to go down to Starbucks, and I'm going to write in my field notes and not have a care in the world about what's going to happen to the pen. That's when I knew I was ready to push the purchase button on the Nakaya. So, to answer Jeremiah's question, that's my use case. My use case is anywhere, anytime, anyhow. I carry, the Nakaya Piccolo has a clip, I've carried it in my jeans pocket, clip to my pocket. I don't care what happens to the pen, I just want to use it because it's so great. And it's the same for the Nakaya Portable, although I don't carry that one in my pocket as much because it moves around because it doesn't have a clip. But I'll take it anywhere, use it anywhere. I carry them with me in my pen case all the time. They leave the house constantly. I use them more than any other pens I'm using right now. So, and that's how I knew I was ready to own an Nakaya, that I wouldn't be scared of it. And that was a hang-up for a year or more. Like, I'm going to damage this pen, I'm going to drop it, I'm going to ruin it. And that weighed on me before buying the pen. And I wouldn't buy it because of that. I was scared of it. And I got to the point where, okay, I think I'm going to use, if I'm buying this, I'm going to use this constantly. It's going to be like my everyday writer pen. So, that's where the Nakayas fit into my rotation. And I'm super happy with that choice. And if they get nicked up, dinged up, you know what? Even better because they're my Nakayas. And, you know, that's how I'm going to use them. And they're a part of me. And, you know, getting used and abused. And they'll have character, you know, if something happens to them. Oh, well, now, hopefully I don't drop one on the ground and they shatter. Because that could happen. But I'm not worried about it. I'll carry them anywhere. Carry them clipped to my shirt pocket. I don't protect them all the time. You know, they just kind of float around. And I've made a point not to worry about it. And, therefore, I'm getting more enjoyment out of it. So, I hope that makes sense, Jeremiah. And I hope that makes sense to you, Myke.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: No, 100%. I agree pretty much with everything that you're saying. Like, when you're thinking about buying these pens and they're so expensive.

Myke Hurley: In a way, like, the fact that they're more expensive means you should use them more. Right. Even though that kind of seems counterintuitive. Like, they should be protected. Right. Like, my precious type of scenario. But the fact that you've spent $700 on it, it would be an absolute waste of money if you didn't use it every day.

Brad Dowdy: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Myke Hurley: Like, it really would be a waste of money. Yep. Because it's not like it's... I mean, they are kind of works of art, but you don't present them in such a way. Mm-hmm. So, you have to do with them what they're intended to do. You know, that they're built to be... They're not built to be fragile. They're built to be these, like, incredibly precise and machined things that are excellent at writing.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. I don't know. So, that's how I... It was like a light switch flipped on and said, okay, I'm ready to use this every day and not worry about what's going to happen to the pen. And then that's when I knew I was ready to purchase one.

Myke Hurley: I think what you need to understand and feel at the end of the day is if you use that for six months and something terrible happens, like, you drop it and it just smashes. Mm-hmm. You know, you drop it down a staircase. Mm-hmm. Is the six months of work... Is the six months of use every day worth replacing it? Like, worth the cost of it breaking? Mm-hmm. I guess that's what you need to work out.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. I'm with you. And, yeah, it totally is. I've been extremely happy with my purchases so far, and I see no reason that you're not going to continue to hear about them constantly. Especially since I still need to review them. So I'm going to work on that because I've had a bunch of people pinging me, when are you going to review them? When are you going to review them? So they're coming soon. Coming soon.

Myke Hurley: Well, you just got it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It's a hard pen to review, honestly.

Pen Design

Brad Dowdy: You know, it's so understated, but it's so deep. It's kind of this weird thing going on that it's very hard to explain in words on how to review, do a written review of a Nakaya and photograph them. They are hard to photograph, too, to see the real beauty of them, to get them coming out. So one more pen that Jeremiah asked about was the Edison Menlo. And the reason I said it falls in the same category as the Nakaya for me, it's the one pen that I always have with me. It's always inked up. And it's probably more special to me than the Nakaya's because it was purchased for me as a gift by my not-co-partner, Mr. Jeff Brookwicky. And, you know, I've told the story about, you know, how he worked with Brian Gray at Edison Pens to get it. So Jeremiah just wanted to know how the Menlo's working out just from a use case. It's fabulous. I love the build. The build quality of all Edison pens are awesome. The barrel shape fits my hand really good.

Brad Dowdy: It's not an overly – it's right in the medium range of length. It's not short. It's not long. It fits my hand really good. It's extremely comfortable to write with. Brian put a .5 millimeter stub nibble in there for me, which I love. I don't really have anything bad to say about it except that it does take a little bit longer to clean than a normal pen. Just because of the pump filling system, you're pumping water in and out, in and out, like constantly to get it really clean. I'm sure I could take it apart a little bit more than I have, but it makes me a little bit nervous. This pen has a lot more moving parts than a normal pen, like a cartridge converter pen. So I could take it apart, get it a little bit more clean, or get it clean faster, not get it more clean. But, yeah, if you're getting a Menlo, just know that it's going to take you a while to clean it, just pumping in water in and out a lot. I mean, we're talking several minutes worth of. But then it fills up so easily. The filling system is wicked cool. And in mine, you can see it because it's a see-through barrel, a translucent barrel. So you can see the ink coming in through this tube, and it's just, like, shooting in there. It only takes, like, three or four strokes to fill up just a huge amount of ink in that pen. And it takes me a while to empty it out, too, because it's such a large ink capacity. I love, love, love the Menlo. And I'm thinking about getting another one. So it's a very cool pen. And between the Menlo and the two Piccolos, I think those are the pens I have on. Those pens never go uninked. I mean, excuse me, the two Nakias and the Menlo. Those pens are with me 100% of the time. And then I usually have three, maybe four more slots of fountain pens that kind of rotate depending on what I'm feeling. If I need to test out a pen, if I need to try out an ink, or if I have a pen that I haven't used in a while and I'm missing and want to use it for, you know, a month or so to swap in. But those three are with me all the time now, and I'm pretty happy with those purchases. So that's that.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I've taken a lot of work today to handcraft some real show notes for you. I've tried to pull in most of the things that we've spoken about, actually, with some links to some great places where you can buy them, too. Cool. In some cases. So if you want to find those, go to 5x5.tv slash penaddict slash 112. It's where you're also going to find a big button that says Contact. If you want to send Brad an email, that's the way to do it. If you want to follow us on Twitter, I am imike, I-M-Y-K-E, and Brad is at dowdyism, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M. And, of course, Brad writes over at penaddict.com. We'll be back next week with another episode of the Pen Addict podcast. Brad, do you have anything else that you'd like to say before we finish today?

Brad Dowdy: I don't think so. I think we're set. Look forward to chatting again next week, as always. Well, then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.