The Pen Addict 11/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	11
Title:	Analog vs Digital
Release Date:	April 24th, 2012
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 11
Audio File:	Audio Episode 11
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 11
Length:	3131 min <br />0.517 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: Hello and welcome to The Pen Addict podcast, your weekly source for pens and papers and usually the analogue tools that we love so dearly. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by your host, that is Mr. Brad Dowdy, who is The Pen Addict. Hello, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Hey, Myke. How's it going today?

Digital Tools

Myke Hurley: Very well, sir. Very well. So I said usually analogue tools because we finally have reached the episode where we're going to talk about digital tools and styluses and stuff like that.

Brad Dowdy: I know people have been on us since about episode two maybe, saying what digital apps you use. I think a lot of the listeners come from other shows on the network and most of the other shows are digital-based between technology or apps and everything that goes along with that. And, you know, it was nice to mix in this more analogue-style show, but all those crossover listeners, they want to know the digital workflow and how the pen and paper works into that. Because, I mean, let's face it, you and I, you know, as much analogue tools as we use on a daily basis, we're knee-deep into the digital world. Let's not kid anyone.

Myke Hurley: So we're kind of going to talk about – we're going to break this into two sections, I think. We're going to talk about stylus-based applications, ones that are actually where you use the method of pen and paper onto an iPad we're going to focus on. And then we're also going to talk about applications that we use in lieu of writing. So a note-taking application or like an app that we would write a long-form article in or something like that, right? Right. Because you don't write your reviews on paper and publish them to the web. They have to come from somewhere. That's right. So where we might – actually, you do both, but, you know, that's just because you're crazy. So I've had people suggest a couple of different styluses. I prefer styluses to styli.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I was actually – I was handwriting my notes for today's show, and I was doing the same thing. Styluses, styli. So we'll go with styluses.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. So we've had a bunch suggested to us, and there's a couple that I want to try out. I mean, a lot of people suggest – and there's a bamboo one. I'll put links to these in the show notes.

Myke Hurley: I think it's the – is it the Wacom bamboo? Yeah.

Myke Hurley: There's the Anodit Jot Pro. I believe it's Anodit. Again, I'll put a link in the show notes in case I've got that wrong. This is one that's meant to – it's very fine. It's like a ballpoint, and they have this, like, little plastic disc around the point, which – I've seen that. I'm going to get one of those because it really interests me. But me and you – I mean, we wanted to get more, but unfortunately, they have to take the backseat to buying real pens. So we both own a Cosmonaut stylus.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. And just a little short history of – for me, this is the very first stylus I've owned, and currently the only stylus I own, the Cosmonaut. So just to give people some background, I don't have a lot of other tools to compare it with.

Myke Hurley: I mean, I had the – I spoke last week about the Stabilo Smart Ball, but I've not really used that at all since last week. So we're going to discount that from the discussion. Now, the Cosmonaut I like because it's unlike other styluses. It's not meant to look like a pen. It's more like a big felt marker. And it feels good in the hand. It's not an uncomfortable thing to use. And you can hold it differently. Like, I don't need to rest my palm on the screen to write with it. Right. So, I mean, and also as well, I tend to use the Cosmonaut to actually navigate my iPad at times. I mean, I always have it with me when I have my iPad on my desk, and I might use it to browse Twitter and stuff like that because I find it a nice fluid motion of just swiping with a pen.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I've kind of shocked myself with that because I found myself doing that too. I just bought the latest version of the iPad, and that's also my first iPad. So, I've got all these new toys to play with.

Myke Hurley: How recently did you get that? We haven't even spoken about it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I got the iPad on launch day. So, has that been like a month now? Maybe a little more? So, and then the Cosmonaut I think I've had for maybe two weeks. Okay. And when I first got it, you know, I mean, I understood what the design was about. And until I felt that I wasn't really sure what it was going to be all about and, you know, the best way to use it. And for me, being completely new to both the iPad and a stylus, it took a little bit of getting used to for me. I wasn't used to the right amount of pressure I had to use, you know, to make an action. I wasn't used to how fine of responsiveness I could get from it. And I'd say after about maybe two days, though, it's pretty much attached to my hand at all times if I have my iPad out, which I didn't think would be the case at all. But like you, I find myself navigating with it. And, you know, I've got this weird half stylus, half typing method. Like one's my right hand, my stylus is my right hand. That is interesting. You know, if I'm just doing something quick, like a tweet or something, you know, just so I don't have to put the stylus down and pick it back up, I'll like it'll be my right hand. The stylus will be my right hand to punch the keys and my left hand fingers will handle the left side of the keyboard. So I actually catch myself doing that. I'm like, stop it. If I'm writing something long, I'll have to put it down and then start typing normally. But I like holding it and using it that much just because the feel and responsiveness is pretty top notch, even though I don't have anything to compare it to. I'm really happy with it.

Myke Hurley: Yes, it's a unique experience. And it's made by a company called Studio Neat, who made the Glyph, which was one of the early successful Kickstarter projects, which is like a camera mount for the iPhone.

Myke Hurley: The Cosmonaut, I believe, was also a Kickstarter project. I bought it shortly after it was funded because they have a manufacturing plant in the UK. So it's very quick to ship here. So it's one of the places they manufacture is in the United Kingdom, obviously, for the European market. And I wanted to buy a Glyph. Nice. That was what I was going for. So I saw the Cosmonaut and was like, yeah, why not just get one of those two? And I don't really use the Glyph very much, but I use the Cosmonaut every day. So I'm glad I made the purchase. Yeah. Have you tried out any apps?

Brad Dowdy: And it's fairly priced, too. I mean, that's it. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Myke Hurley: No, it definitely is. It definitely is.

Paper App

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So have you tried out any applications? Well, you told me before I even had the stylus that I needed to try Paper, the app called Paper, which I said I will, but I'm going to hold off until I get the stylus. Yeah, you may. And I've – yeah, yeah, exactly. And I've played around with it some. And I don't know how to describe it. It's really cool. I think, you know, I haven't figured out if that's something that's going to be part of any type of workflow or more of a fun thing for me, you know, to do some sketching or artwork. I see the possibilities with this app. I haven't had time to totally dig in. But – and I just have the base brush right now, right? I mean, it's an in-app purchase of like four different brushes, right?

Myke Hurley: You really need to do it. It's expensive for an iPhone app, but when you unlock all of the brushes, you really get – it's really powerful. And it's great. I mean, I don't create anything magical in it, like – but I just – I use it as like a creative outlet. Like I enjoy the creating artwork in it, which is nice.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. See, that's what I think I would enjoy too. And I've played around with like you can demo each brush. And with the different brushes and the Cosmonaut, it's really cool how fine of detail you can get.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Like my handwriting actually looks like my handwriting on the paper, which, you know, it's pretty amazing.

Myke Hurley: I mean, they've definitely done a great job. I mean, paper is one, but there are applications which are specific for note-taking as well. And I tried out a couple of them when I originally bought the Cosmonaut. I don't use them very often because it's not really the best situation. But there's two apps that I've tried out. One is called Penultimate. And Penultimate is kind of the de facto standard for this. It's been around from day one pretty much. And it's a pretty decent application. You get a bunch of tools. You get different types of pen, thickness and stuff. You get two different colors. And you have little books that look kind of like field notes books in a nice little gallery. And you can have different notebooks. You can share things out to Dropbox. You can share things out to Evernote, which is pretty cool. So you can send anything that you write or draw in Penultimate. But one of the best things is wrist protection.

Myke Hurley: So Penultimate does this better than I've known any other application to do. So what it does is you can lean your wrist on the iPad.

Myke Hurley: And it recognizes that your wrist is touching it. And you can still then write. Because if you use an app that doesn't have wrist protection or you have wrist protection turned off, if you lean your wrist on the iPad, it takes that as the first touch point. So right now, I'm dragging my hand and the Cosmonaut across the page in Penultimate. And it's just picking up the Cosmonaut.

Brad Dowdy: Okay, that's really cool. I didn't realize such a thing existed because that drives me crazy. Especially being new to using a stylus. As soon as I hit it with the butt of my hand or something, I'll close the page or do something, trigger something. And I'm like, oh, that's just frustrating. So I keep my hand elevated at all times. But you still run into bumping things when you're not paying attention. That's pretty cool. I like that feature.

Myke Hurley: And you can select if you're left-handed or right-handed, which is important. And also the way you hold the pen. Yeah, that's key. So where your wrist is going to be touching. So if, for example, if you write from the top, you can say that. So it knows to put the touch target in the top area of the page. If you write from the side or from the bottom. Same sort of thing. And Penultimate is... Well thought out. Yes, it's an intelligent application for what it does. But the problem with these sort of apps really, and the next one I'm going to talk about, tries to solve that in a way, is you cannot write on the iPad comfortably as small as you would usually write. Typically you write much larger. Right. And I think that's just because it's not possible to make a really thin line with these types of styluses. You know, I would like to see... That's one of the reasons I want to try out the Anadip Jot Pro. Right. It's because it can apparently make a much finer line. So another app that I've tried is called Note Shelf. Note Shelf is really cool for a couple of reasons. Again, you can have different types of book and they look like Moleskine books. But you can then have different types of paper. So they have like your standard, they have like a legal pad, checked paper and stuff like that. But via in-app purchase, you can buy different paper types. So, for example, you can... If you are a sports person, they have a sports pack, I believe. Let me check. Hang on. I'm sure I saw a sports pack somewhere. Ignore that part. They have... Oh, no, they do. Sorry, the sports one comes free. So if you are a sports type person, you can create like playbooks. Oh, okay. In the application. Interesting. So it has like pitches or fields and stuff drawn out. And so you can create plays in it. They have design paper for designers, for like for iOS designers. So one side of the page is an outline of an iPhone. And then you have notes on the right-hand side. So that's just like a custom-made book. And then you have day planners, which is really cool. So you can have custom notebooks created using their paper with... So it's like a... So you've got like a task list, for example. Yeah, so I'm looking for a task list on one side, notes on another. It's like, you know how you can get from like office supply stores, you can buy those pre-printed day planner type pads. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Which is really cool. So they put a lot of work into that.

Brad Dowdy: That's pretty cool.

Pen Size Adjustment

Myke Hurley: And one of the other features that this application offers where they're trying to combat some of the fact that you write a lot larger is they have a zoom mode. So you press the zoom mode and you can select, you can drag and select the section you want to write in. And then it kind of cuts the landscape in half. So in the top half, you see just the area that you're writing, like just standard preview. And then the bottom half of the application turns into this zoom view. So you can write really large, but it comes out on the paper as being much smaller. Does that make sense?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's good. That seems logical, yeah.

Myke Hurley: So that way you're able to get a much smaller line, much smaller writing words. You can fit more on the page and it feels more natural. So it's a pretty cool application. But the thing is with them, they're mainly for me just cool to try out and they can't beat pen and paper for me in the way that I write notes.

Digital vs Analog

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so that's the real question. And the question I had for you is do any of these apps replace pen and paper for you?

Myke Hurley: No, not at all. It's a shame. Because they're cool, but they can't beat that feeling of pen and paper and the freedom that I get. There's not really any restrictions there. But they are cool applications nonetheless.

Myke Hurley: I mean, I would suggest if you think you might enjoy it, try them out because it might work for you better than it does for me. But I do enjoy them. It's just in the long run, they've not stuck around for me.

Brad Dowdy: Right, right.

Myke Hurley: So there you go.

Myke Hurley: So that's iPad applications.

Brad Dowdy: Cool. Now, we also, you know, I personally use, I haven't dove as deep as you into the iPad world, but I do use a bunch of Mac apps that, you know, supplement and complement my pen and paper writing. And I think we've talked a little bit about some kind of, you know, kind of our systems, like how we work and do some things like that. But, you know, there were a few apps we wanted to throw out there that, you know, that complement our handwriting and our pens and our paper and all that information that we're capturing. And a couple of them for me, one of them is ByWord, which is just, it's a text editor, basically. Yeah. But it's beautifully designed. And, you know, I transfer, I'll do a lot of, like, say for the show notes today, or not for the show notes, but just for the show ideas. You know, I write them down on paper. The next thing I did was I transferred them over to ByWord just so I could type them up in the screen. So then I can go dump them into WonderKit, which you and I use to collaborate in.

Brad Dowdy: So that's kind of, you know, just a real simple way that, you know, I use the, combine the analog and digital. I, sometimes I'll write it just in, start my ideas in ByWord, but a lot of times my ideas start on paper. And, you know, if they're not going from paper into ByWord, they're usually going from paper into something like EnvyAlt, which is a pretty killer program for me.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, it's like a note-taking application. It can sync with Dropbox or SimpleNote. Right. So it can sync all of your iOS notes. And it's basically, there's an application called Notational Velocity. And EnvyAlt is a fork of that application created by the wizard that is Brett Terpstra.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that guy's amazing.

Myke Hurley: So I use EnvyAlt as well. And I sync my SimpleNote with it. I use SimpleNote on my iOS devices.

Brad Dowdy: Exactly. And I, you know, I use that for like an, for an inbox. Like, you know, I've talked about how I use a FieldNotes memo book just to capture ideas. And if I want to work on those ideas more, they'll transfer from that into EnvyAlt, into just kind of an inbox area. You know, just one of my notes is called Inbox. And I know that's kind of my, that's kind of my working file that I'll move and create, you know, project or, you know, other idea files out of that, that inbox. So, you know, I, that's a very normal thing for me to do, to use in, in conjunction with my pen and paper. That's, that's EnvyAlt as close to pen and paper as I can get digitally for what, you know, the type of notes that I like to take and then the type of things I like to keep handy.

Myke Hurley: Indeed.

Brad Dowdy: And that's, that's a, that's a big compliment. It sounds, it sounds funny to say that that's the closest thing to pen and paper, but for my, the way my brain works, something like the setup of EnvyAlt really works well for me to transfer my notes from pen and paper into digital format.

Myke Hurley: Because it's so plain and simple, it kind of just feels like a scratch pad in that, in that way, like I know a lot of people that when they're at their Mac would like write down telephone numbers and stuff in EnvyAlt where, where the average person would, would grab the post-it note or something.

Brad Dowdy: That's exactly right.

Myke Hurley: And it's all searchable. I mean, that's the benefit of it.

EnvyAlt Software

Brad Dowdy: Yep. It's all searchable. And then you can write there in EnvyAlt, you can turn it into full blown blog posts or journal entries or, I mean, books. I'm sure people have written chapters of books in there. Just the way the format is of that program is, it's really conducive to that.

Myke Hurley: And let me give you a little hack, right? I think you'll quite like this if you don't do it already. This is Stephen Hackett, who's my co-host on the 512 podcast on 70 Decibels Network. He turned me on to this idea. And I've not tried it out yet, but I'm going to. Buy a scanner.

Field Notes Notebooks

Myke Hurley: He scans his Field Notes books when he's done with them. And he puts them into Evernote.

Brad Dowdy: Yep.

Myke Hurley: Because Evernote does OCR. So he can then search his Field Notes books. Because what Evernote does is it scans pictures and finds words in them. And then you can search for the words. And then you have a searchable copy of your notebooks.

Brad Dowdy: That is awesome. That's brilliant.

Myke Hurley: It's a great idea. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: That's really good. Because, you know, whether you're using a pen and paper system or a digital system, each kind of has their pros and cons. And that's kind of a big downfall of pen and paper is it's, you know, you don't really have a backup of it. Yeah. And you can't search it. Yeah. And you can't search it. If you spill your drink on it, it's gone. You know, if you, you know, lose it at Starbucks, you know, it's pretty much gone and things like that. So, I mean, there's some downsides to pen and paper and scanning into Evernote. And now I was thinking that Brett on Cooking With, that he has even talked about scanning in different things. But I haven't heard Stephen's idea of scanning in the full notebook into there, into Evernote, just and making it searchable. Not only searchable, but also, you know, have a backup.

Myke Hurley: With Brett, you can kind of assume that he puts everything in Evernote, like no matter what it is. I think his wife lives inside Evernote.

Brad Dowdy: He keeps his kids in there.

Myke Hurley: So, what other, like, I mean, for me, you've put this app in your notes. And this is a big one for me, an app called Clear. And Clear is like a list. It's like, it's not really to do as such. It's more a list, like that you check off lists and stuff. Yep. And that works really well for me because it's super fast entry. Like they utilize a lot of gestures to make it very easy to enter things into a list. And I love it. I mean, because it works very much like how I would write a pen and paper list.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Yep. It's very much. That's my Post-it note app, if you will. You know, I, you know, just the other day, you know, I had a friend, you know, that, you know, changed his email address, I think. And so, you know, I just, I'm real anal about how I keep my address book and stuff, you know, in iOS. So, I want to write it down first. And then later on when I have time, I'll adjust the address book to how I want. So, I just pop open Clear and write it in one of my, in one of my ideas. And just, you know, write down the address there. And boom, then that's done. Then I can go back later and transfer it out to wherever I want. I use Clear a lot for that. And then I also use our friend Patrick Rohn's new app called Pop. That's kind of taken over some of that, the quick jot down note type of stuff, really like a, like a Post-it or an index card, a disposable piece of paper where I need to write it down. And I need to keep, there's obviously a reason I need to keep this information for some even minute reason. So, it needs to be captured somewhere. And, you know, an app like Pop really helps that out. So, I'll just go through my, you know, I'll keep one sheet, keep that sheet in Pop kind of active and just delete out the items when I'm done moving them to wherever I need to do. So, that's another cool little app that I use in lieu of pen and paper sometimes.

Myke Hurley: That's definitely like a scratch pad. For sure. Yep. Cool.

Brad Dowdy: And so, that's probably kind of the main apps that I use that are pen and paper related, you know, whether it's capturing, you know, we're all trying to manage our best way to capture the information that we need. And, you know, a combination of tools is definitely in order to get everything done. And, you know, I listened to episode five of Homework just yesterday. And David and Aaron were talking about the tools they use, hardware, software, for, you know, all their freelance work.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And, you know, David is a very hardcore paper user. I mean, for being as avid of a tech writer as he is, I've listened to him. Yeah. Almost everything he does on a daily basis is pen and paper. You know, where Aaron, it's a lot of pen and paper. And he's kind of, you know, maybe half and half. So, it's good to see. You've got to find the system that works best for you. So, I thought that was an interesting listen yesterday when I caught that episode.

Myke Hurley: Definitely. I think we might have come to the end of this episode, you know. I think so. A shorter one than I thought it was going to be. Short one for us. I think as part of it is, like, I mean, I think that maybe from this people were hoping that we were going to be able to give them a solution to swap pen and paper for the iPad. Right. Right. And I think, I mean, I know some people, like I know Ben Brooks. He uses the iPad in meetings. He takes notes on the iPad in meetings. And he does that using either, like, typing or writing, stuff like that. And I can see where that would be great for some people. Like, I can totally understand that. But for me, note taking in the way that I take notes works excellently with my pen and paper solutions. Right. You know, and it's fun to do it on a computer. It's fun to do it on the iPad because it's a completely different experience. You can add multimedia and you can record people as you're talking and all that sort of stuff. But, I mean, we share this peculiar way. I mean, I think everyone does. But, you know, I like to write with arrows and stars and boxes. And so for me, being able to write on my notes like that is a big thing. And I think, well, a big part of it is the main time where I get to use my pens and paper is writing my meeting notes. And I love using pen and paper.

Note Taking

Brad Dowdy: I know. A couple of ideas I had on that. One is that, you know, I wrote down some pros and cons between each. And I have more fun using pen and paper. Exactly. And that's a big deal. I mean, you know, it's not for everybody. I mean, some people would just assume not to have to touch a pen and paper. And that's cool, too. One of the ideas I had when I was writing up these show notes, or not one of the ideas, one of the thoughts I had is, am I more, is having a pen and paper system more inefficient than a strictly digital system?

Myke Hurley: Interesting question.

Brad Dowdy: And that's something I ran across while I was writing my ideas for today's show. Because the way I take notes, I wasn't happy with the first page that I wrote. So I tore it out of the notebook and I rewrote it again on a piece of paper.

Myke Hurley: So you have to replicate the entire thing. And if you did it on the computer, you could just maybe take out a couple of words and add a couple of lines or something.

Brad Dowdy: Right, right. But it didn't faze me because I wanted to.

Myke Hurley: Because you're using a finishing point.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, actually, I was. I was. And I was testing out a few different pens. So I was like, screw it. I'll write this whole thing over again. I don't care. But then while in the middle of me doing that, I kind of had a, huh, this is pretty inefficient. But it's just how I'm wired, right? Maybe it's a personality trait that all of us pen and paper, hardcore pen and paper users share. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's just this built-in want for just that, I don't know, that tactile, responsive pen and paper feel or something. To me, it's the way the letters and the ink look on the page. That's what's important to me and the feel of the pen and why one pen is different from another and things like that.

Myke Hurley: I'm 100% about the feel. That's what I really enjoy.

Pen Testing

Brad Dowdy: Right. And I'm kind of going off on a tangent here, but I did have that moment of, well, what I'm doing right now is pretty inefficient in the grand scheme of things. But you know what? I don't know. I've kind of always done it that way. And it seems to work for me, I guess, in some weird way. And I guess that's the most important thing.

Myke Hurley: Oh, for sure. I mean, look at the way that I do show notes is crazy. So at the moment, I have a field notes notebook open in front of me, and I divide the pages up a bit. So I've got pens and paper. So that's what I always do out for this. And I've got show notes, and I've got a column for apps, which is new for this episode. Right. And then what I'm going to do is I've written all this down, and in about 10 minutes when we're finished recording, I'm going to start typing these up and finding the links. Now, I could save myself so much time if I just start typing them up straight away, like as we're talking, which I could do because I can type pretty quietly, and the microphone's pretty good at not picking that up. But I like to do it like this, this pen and paper method. I love it. This is how I've done it for two years, and I'm not going to change that. It's the way that I like to write these show notes. And then I've got, you know, I'm starting to collect completed books now. So I've got these, you know, and so in a couple of years' time, I'm going to have all these books, these notebooks, which are full of old show notes. I can go through, and it'll be a real nice thing because you can see, like, my doodles and stuff when we're talking. You know, it's great, and I love that, and I love that feel, and I love that permanency of it. So every mistake is still there, you know? It's great. And like all of, for example, for some episodes, I might write down show title names, you know? And I'm only going to pick one of them, but I've got, like, six or seven on the page. I love stuff like that.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Yep. That's exactly right. Exactly right. Well, you'll have to white out all the Brad is so stupid doodles before you skin them in. I have a different book of those. Oh, okay. Okay. Gotcha.

Myke Hurley: So, Brad, where can people find you online if they want to do so?

Brad Dowdy: You can find me at penaddict.com or on Twitter at dowdyism, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M. Great. You can also email me. My email address is thepenaddict at gmail.com. And we'd also really appreciate, you know, your love in the iTunes store. If you can leave us a rating or a review in the iTunes store, we'd greatly appreciate that.

Myke Hurley: Definitely. Great. And I'm iMike on Twitter, which is I-M-Y-K-E. And you can also get in contact with the show by going to 70decibels.com forward slash contact. And you can select from the contact form there and send us an email. Most of them I forward to Brad. Yep. Because I don't have answers. But please do. Yeah. Because, you know, I like to read them.

Brad Dowdy: Send us some emails. Yeah, definitely send us the emails. Send them, you know, through the contact page straight to me. And, you know, we like to do some mailbag segments from time to time. So I'm more than happy to answer your questions.

Myke Hurley: Indeed. Excellent. So until next. Oh, next week we'll be back recording and releasing on Thursday. Just with my traveling and stuff. The last couple of weeks have been a bit crazy. But we've wanted to make sure we've got a show out for you on both weeks. So we've moved it all around. But we'll be back recording on the 3rd of May. We'll be the next show recording and release.

Brad Dowdy: Sounds perfect.

Myke Hurley: All right. See you later, Brad. Thank you very much.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Thanks, Myke. Talk to you later. See you.

Myke Hurley: Bye. Bye.