The Pen Addict 43/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	43
Title:	Adding To Cart Now
Release Date:	February 26th, 2013
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	Patrick Rhone
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 43
Audio File:	Audio Episode 43
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 43
Length:	5454 min <br />0.9 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: Hello and welcome to episode 43 of The Pen Addict podcast, a weekly show where we discuss pens, paper, and the analogue tools that you love so dearly. I am joined today, oh I am Myke Hurley as you all know, hopefully by now, and I am joined today as you also well know, by the man, the myth, I haven't really got anything to say this week so I'm just going to make something up. He is like, like Patrick Rohn is to Minimal Mac, in that he, I don't know what I'm saying, but I have Brad Dowdy here. I totally failed this week, Brad, I couldn't give you a name, so I guess this will be the infamous episode where I don't give you a nickname.

Brad Dowdy: You even had an hour break between the last show and now to think about.

Myke Hurley: I usually, I usually think of the, basically I give Brad a peculiar name every week, Pat, hi Patrick Rohn by the way. Yes, hello Patrick Rohn, thank you for joining us today.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, as if, as if I didn't badger my way on, as if I was invited.

Brad Dowdy: That's rich.

Myke Hurley: So Patrick is of PatrickRohn.com, Minimal Mac, he's also a host of the Enough podcast on 70 decibels too.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah. So we're happy to have you here today, Pat.

Myke Hurley: And we've got some things that, well, Brad has some things that he wants to talk with you about. I don't want to talk to you at all is how that sounds, and it's probably true, but that's a lie. Anyway, before I continue to destroy this episode any further, Brad, should we kind of talk about that?

Patrick Rhone: I want to continue to destroy it and throw you under the bus real quick because I just listened to, both of you guys have been on Tal, I won't pretend to pronounce his last name, but Tal's podcast, The Distraction. The Distraction, yes. I've just been introduced to Tal in the past week because he was linking me up with someone who was writing another article, and that's a whole other topic for another day. So I went back and I didn't know this podcast existed. I went back and listened to Michael, your episode, and Patrick, your episode, and there's a few other episodes that I went to. And Mr. Hurley made a very specific point about no editing, and he has a spot on the pen addict where he just starts with the open, and he goes with it, and he calls Brad a certain name. And he just rolls with it and leaves it as it is, and you know what? This is a prime example of you butchering that, and we're just going to go with it because that's part of the show.

Myke Hurley: Yes, it is. If it happens, it's magical, and if it doesn't, then it's just horrendous.

Patrick Rhone: No.

Ink Purchase

Myke Hurley: No. It's equally as magical. It's equally as magical. So I would like to start our follow-up this week by saying that I have bought an ink. I am the proud owner of – I have purchased a Pilot Hiroshizuku Konpeki. Wow. I went the whole hog.

Brad Dowdy: I'm actually just impressed you can pronounce it personally.

Myke Hurley: Yes, it's not been easy.

Patrick Rhone: I think that's the first time in about three episodes that you've actually gotten through that.

Myke Hurley: I have it in front of me, and I've been practicing. So there were a couple of points that led to this. So obviously I've – quite literally, Brad, have been inundated with responses. They've been coming in thick and fast since last week where I asked our listeners to give me suggestions for quick-drying inks. I've had a bunch of people give me suggestions for things that they know work, things that they believe will or have heard from others. And I've been collecting them, and the sort of the trends were the Hiroshizuku's, a couple of Pelicans, and the others was the Noodler's Bernanke series.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah, Ben Bernanke.

Myke Hurley: That's it. And the reason that I went with the Hiroshizuku was obviously it had been recommended to me, but you had also reviewed it.

Brad Dowdy: Most expensive review I've seen in a long time, my friend. There you go. Expensive to me because that is some fine-looking ink right there.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I saw the color, and I really like the look of the color. And I can see the – because obviously you're using a Twizbee 1.5, which I think is an even thicker nib than the one that I'm using, right? Easily. Yeah, probably double. And the fact that after five seconds it only smeared that much would suggest to me that I might be in for a good time with this.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, see. No, that's it. That's it. I'm ordering some while we're actually doing the show here. There you go. Add to cart.

Patrick Rhone: I don't know how much – I don't know how much – I don't know how quicker drawing you can get with a fountain pen type ink, right?

Myke Hurley: Yeah. And I'm cool with it because I'm pretty good at being able to hover over the line, but it's – as I then get further down the page and the ink's still not dry, as I've been having with the Twizbee, that that's where it's becoming an issue.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Why was I not part of this discussion when you were having it? Why didn't I get to –

Myke Hurley: All you needed to do was listen to the show, Pat, and you would have – Oh, man.

Pelican Inks

Brad Dowdy: I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. But because I would have had some recommendations as well. Did anyone recommend the Pelican 2001 to you? Yeah. Yeah. That stuff dries super quick.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Pelicans. I had Pelican 2001 and Pelican Brilliant Black as well.

Brad Dowdy: Hmm. Hmm. I'm actually rather impressed. Now, Noodler's has a long known history of not having great drying times for some of their inks. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: It's actually the ink that I'm using in my Twizbee at the moment, Pat, is Heart of Darkness, Noodler's Heart of Darkness. Yeah, I see. It's the only ink that I have in a bottle.

Myke Hurley: Oh, right. And the way that this pen refills, it's a piston, so you can only refill it from a bottle. Right. So I did have some Parker Quink, but I can't find it, which is peculiar for me.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah, because I've never tried the Quink. No, but it was suggested to me. The theory behind it is it should dry fast, but I've never tried it, so I don't know.

Myke Hurley: I can't find it because I've not put that with my collection of good stuff, and I now don't know where it is. But I love the bottle that the Compecchi comes in. I've not inked up the Twizbee yet. I'm going to be doing that tomorrow because I didn't know it was – I ordered from Colt Pens yesterday, and it arrived today. And I wasn't expecting that, especially because with the way that I usually order this sort of stuff, I have to wait weeks and weeks. And I know it was a UK place, so I expected to get it quicker, but what it meant was I wasn't – I didn't know how quickly it was going to come. But I ordered it about yesterday at lunchtime, and it arrived today.

Patrick Rhone: Wonderful. Wasn't cheap. Holy cow. Wasn't cheap, but I reckon it's going to be worth it. Colt Pens has been bringing their A game recently. I've actually been talking to them, but behind the scenes, there's some really nice guys. They do a good job, and all of our UK friends, we definitely – that's definitely a place you should look into when you're ordering.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I'll be swinging jet pins for this one. That's where I am right now. Sure.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: $28 gone. So you had something that you wanted to mention, Brad, before we –

Patrick Rhone: Yeah, I wanted to get you in trouble, Myke, because we were talking on app.net this morning, just a little back and forth. I had taken a picture of one of my – my friend Thomas that sent me a bunch of pins to test out. I had a Sailor Sapporo that I'm really happy with that he sent me. And one of our followers on there, Wildfire, sent a thing. That's a great pin. He says, I'm holding out for the Sailor Pro Gear Imperial Black model. I was like, that's like one of these Holy Grail pins. And I said, well, we definitely shouldn't show Myke that one. So I wanted to show you that one just so you would have an issue with it. Because unfortunately, I think this is a pin that would be right up your alley. But it is very cost prohibitive. So I saved this link just for you. So why don't you click on that link there and tell me your thoughts. Wow.

Myke Hurley: Look at that. Boy, oh boy. That is very beautiful.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I'll have to look at that, Brad.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah. So it's a black barrel with kind of gunmetal gray accents where the chrome would be like the clip and the band and the nib. Everything is really kind of jet black. And I don't know. It's a very cool fountain pen. Are you sending Patrick that link?

Brad Dowdy: No. Please send me the link so I can look. If you could do it, Brad, that would be awesome. This is going to be a very expensive show for me. I can tell.

Myke Hurley: Is this not really available?

Patrick Rhone: It's like it's a $450 pen. Okay.

Patrick Rhone: And?

Patrick Rhone: It's not, I guess you would say, something you just make on a whim purchase. Yeah, I know. I know. Although I am looking. I'm staring directly at a pen that costs more than that right now. Yeah. It's not letting me send you this link, Patrick. But it's called the Sailor Pro Gear Imperial Black. You'll look it up. Look it up. But, I mean, that's one of those on the one of these days shopping list, right? I mean, it's a beautiful, beautiful pen. And everyone I've seen review it has just, you know, raved about it and things like that. But as good of a time as I'm having with these sailors that I haven't yet reviewed on the blog, this one is just stunning to me. Look at that.

Sailor Pens

Brad Dowdy: So, Sailor's not a brand. I'm not. I have to admit, I'm not very familiar with Sailor as a brand.

Brad Dowdy: Location? Japan.

Patrick Rhone: It's a historical company along the lines of, in Japan, it's called the Big Three. It's Pilot, Sailor, and Platinum. Yeah, that's right.

Brad Dowdy: That's right. Gotcha.

Patrick Rhone: Noted. All right. Cool. It's in that batch, so you know it's got the history behind it and the quality behind it. And it doesn't come in an extra fine, though. It doesn't look like. That one may not. They do do some of their other, the Sailor Professional gear, the standard ones, the non-imperial black ones, I think do come in an extra fine. Because, unfortunately, I've been shopping for those. And those run about $200, just the regular, the standard Sailor Pro gear. Because it's got a 21-karat gold nib, so it's a little bit pricey. But it's a beautiful pen. Writes wonderfully. And I'm going to be sad to send mine back. I have the regular Sailor Pro gear and the Sailor Sapporo, which is basically the same design. But it's a little bit smaller barrel diameter, a little bit smaller nib, things like that, and a little bit lower price. And it's a 14-karat gold nib instead of 21K. So priced accordingly. So those nibs will get you, man.

Patrick Rhone: Those nibs will get you. They definitely do.

Myke Hurley: So I assume you're going to be reviewing the Sapporo and the Pro gear.

Patrick Rhone: Definitely. Yeah. I just have it – yeah, I'm still in the trial and testing phase before I get to the reviews. I've been spending – Thomas' – this batch of pens, he sent me 10 pens. So I'm kind of going through all of them at once just so I can have some comparisons and some groundwork to base these reviews off of. So it's taken me some time. I got some Edison pens and things like that too. So what do you ink this sucker up with? I have been using all of Thomas' pens that he sent me. We actually had a long discussion because I wanted to be careful with his pens, right? I wanted to do what he wanted me to do. I didn't want to start sticking random stuff in there and, you know, dunking up pens or doing any damage to pens, which it's pretty rare. But there are inks that you obviously can do damage to pens. And so we settled on the Pilot Blue Black, which is a good standard color. I bought a big bottle of that. It's a color I loved anyway. It's a color I'd already use. I just didn't have a bottle of it. And it's a fantastic thing.

Patrick Rhone: I use it for reviewing all of his pens. And I've actually started to use it in some of my pens now. That's what I use in my Vanishing Point and things like that just because I like the color that much. Nice.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah. So I wanted to get that pen on, that professional gear on Mr. Hurley's radar. Thanks. Yeah, no problem.

Patrick Rhone: I do what I can, Myke.

Myke Hurley: So shall I pay some bills so I can afford these pens? And then we'll get into talking to Pat about what you want to discuss today.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah, let's do it.

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Patrick Rhone: Thank you. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Squarespace.

Myke Hurley: No problemo.

Patrick Rhone: Awesome. So Patrick and Michael. Yes. In this case, I owe both of you gentlemen a debt of gratitude because I don't know if you exactly recall the dates and times, but it's been almost exactly a year since I appeared on Patrick's podcast enough. Yeah. And that, which obviously predates the pen addict podcast. And you guys were the impetus behind this podcast. And without you two being so supportive and, you know, helping me out and talking through lots of things, you know, I was a little bit, I was a lot of bit hesitant to, to start a pen addict podcast. But with, you know, with you guys, your guys help and, you know, pushing me and having me on, you know, enough and just showing, hey, look, you know, this is, you know, this is pretty easy stuff to talk about. And, you know, that, you know, you can do it. And, you know, getting the ball rolling on me wanting to start the pen addict podcast. I just wanted to say thank you for that. I remember that episode like it was yesterday. And it was a really big help in getting this podcast going. So I wanted to say thank you publicly. I know I've definitely thanked you plenty behind the scenes. And it's been a big help to know that I have a supportive group of guys like you guys and able to do something like this. So I wanted to point that episode out. So for any of the any people wondering the history of the pen addict podcast, we'll put the link in the show notes here to where I was a guest on the enough podcast episode 104. So y'all should go back and listen to that if you have it. If you like, if you enjoy this podcast, you should be listening to Patrick's podcast anyway. But definitely check that episode out.

Brad Dowdy: Well, and I kind of mentioned this, I think, a little bit before on my show here and there. And that is that, you know, one of the reasons I'm, you know, kind of both, you know, try to be very encouraging to, you know, to folks for this stuff. But especially the stuff that I want to see. And it can even get to the point of like where I kind of badger people about it is because I want to see it. Right. I want to have I believe that kind of in a way you help to make the Internet that you that you want to visit every day. And hopefully by, you know, either sharing ideas I don't have the time for, you know, things I'm not particularly suited for. If I see someone else who's doing something, I think, oh, this would be great. I want to listen to this or I want to see this or whatever. I'm going to badger the heck out of them to try to get it done because, well, it's what I want to see. It's the, you know, and so, you know, it's not selfless at all. It's inherently selfish, but that's how it's supposed to be. Right. So, yeah, thanks a lot. You know, I mean, it's expensive to me, but it's great. Yeah.

Pen Expense

Patrick Rhone: And I really I want to talk about those the the expense today. And I definitely want to get into, you know, the pins and because I've got some questions to you because I know kind of what your pin collections like and and some things like that. I want to get to that. But I want to ask I want to talk about one other thing first. And this is a post that this is the post that I made. It's been a few weeks ago. It was just kind of a I don't want to say throwaway post. That's not what it was, but it wasn't a review post. It was just an idea I had that popped in my head. I was doing some work at home one day, getting ready to go to the grocery store. And I wrote I was talking on Twitter like, you know, am I normal for rewriting my grocery list, you know, and paper in the order of the store. You know, I have a grocery list. And I was like, OK, it's time to go to the store. So that means it's time to rewrite the entire list, you know, in the order of the store because it makes it easier. But I also did it because, you know, I like using, you know, gives me another chance to test out another pen and another piece of paper. And I tweeted that out. And, you know, the first like literally like within seconds, I got a response like, you know, there's an app for that, you know, for your store. You know, you put it in, you know, lay out your put in the grocery list that you want and it'll lay out the store order. I was like, man, that is awesome. And I immediately went to the app store. I mean, it's just like out of reflex. I went to the app store and started searching for my grocery store, looking for that app. And then it just it was just like click. I was like, what are you doing? I was like, this is not something that I need another app for. It seems like it one it seemed like it would take forever to even get that set up. But it was like, you know, if I download this app, well, now I'm no longer using this pen and paper that I'm enjoying using. Why take that away from myself when I'm enjoying using, you know, hey, I went out and I went and grabbed, you know, like one of the fountain pens that, you know, I have on loan or something like that. And, you know, a different piece of notebook paper that I haven't used before and I get to try it out. I was like, you know, stop. You know, there's that. I don't need an app for everything. And I think that was the gist of it, actually. The title of it was there's an app for that and I don't want it. And you pick that up and, you know, you had some some good comments on that. So you want to talk about that?

Brad Dowdy: I mean, because here's the thing. Right. And that is that.

Brad Dowdy: We want to believe the computers are the perfect solution for everything. Right. That that just because we have this incredibly powerful supercomputer in our pocket. that with, you know, you know, billions of apps available for it to do anything imaginable under the sun. It can be anything you want to be.

Brad Dowdy: But can it be the best for you all the time in every circumstance? I mean, just think about the, you know, so, you know, let's just assume just for a second that before you left for the store, you left the grocery app up and running. You had it all ready to go. You had all your stuff entered in there. And you get to the store.

Grocery Shopping

Brad Dowdy: And you want to start with your first item. You get in there. You get your cart. You go. You're in the produce section.

Brad Dowdy: Because that's where all grocery stores shop internationally, by the way. They start in the produce section.

Brad Dowdy: And what do you have to do? You have to take it out of your pocket. Okay.

Brad Dowdy: Turn, hit the home button or the power button. Swipe the lock screen. If you've got a passcode, God forbid, da, da, da, da, da. And, okay, great. Now you're ready to shop. You go, you know, you pick up your few things or whatever. And whatever your sleep time is set on it, five minutes, ten minutes, whatever, I can guarantee that thing's going to go to sleep. You're going to have to perform that action all over again. You're going to probably have to perform that action at least a dozen times throughout your shopping trip. If, you know, it's a, you know, kind of regular size grocery trip. Right? Probably half a dozen to a dozen times. How much time is that taking?

Brad Dowdy: With that piece of paper, you're going to pull it out of your pocket. That's the only step. Right? There's no lock screen. There's no, you know, there's no, maybe you folded it. Maybe you put it on too big of a piece of paper. Use index cards next time. And you can save yourself a couple of seconds from having to unfold it. But that's about it. You know what I mean? I mean, paper is always on. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So, yeah. And so you don't, you know, and I'm sorry. And maybe it's me. When you get to a certain age, and I'm of a certain age, I'm older than both of you. I'm probably, you know, I'm probably older than most of the people listening, actually. Because I'm an old guy. Hey, I'm right there with you. Don't give me too much credit. Well, then you know. When you, you know, when you're in your 20s, you think, oh, I've got all the time in the world. I'm going to live forever. And you get to be about 40, 45, you start to realize, I don't have much time left. And I'm certainly not going to waste it trying to open some app in the middle of a grocery store. I'm going to pull out a piece of paper and get the job done. Because I don't have, I'd rather be spending this time doing something else, like having a beer and watching football or something. I don't know. But, you know, there's better things to do with your life than, you know, monkeying around with apps all the time. Yeah.

Patrick Rhone: I mean, it sounds crazy, but it was really kind of a jarring thing for me that when someone said it, I was like, absolutely, I'm going to go get this app. And it really hit me like someone threw a brick against my head, like right in the middle of searching for this app. I was like, what are you doing? It's ridiculous.

Brad Dowdy: You have the right solution. And that's not to say the apps are never the best solution. There are certainly times when the app is better, where it makes more sense, where it saves you time, where it saves you money. What have you. But the other thing that you bring up, and I think is an interesting one, is for some people, paper would never work. All of the fiddly work of having to, you know, first of all, capture the grocery list and then sit down and reorder it. I mean, basically, you're trading your time. All the time that you would be spending monkeying around with the app, you're trading monkeying around with the paper, right? Sure, sure. Including that time you spent with the app in the store. And when you add it all up, who knows? The paper might actually take longer. But that's only one metric. That's only one part of the equation. The other part of the equation is you just plain enjoy it, right? I enjoy the act of writing out a good list, a good grocery list, or a good to-do list, or that sort of thing, right? And that's the pleasurable part for me. Not the, you know, not the, you know, the capturing of that stuff or the ordering of that stuff or the messaging, but just simply the writing of that stuff. To write with a nice pen and a good piece of paper or to sit down with a nice notebook. And it's one of the reasons why, you know, as much as I've tried to use, you know, things like Day One and, you know, online journals and things like that, I keep coming back to my Levenger Five-Year Journal. Because it's just such a nice experience to pull out a good pen and to write on great paper. And, you know, it feels honest to me. And that's, you know, I just think that that's something that a computer will never replace for me. Right? And that's the way that I work. And that's kind of, you know, the best way for me. And no matter how many other things I try, and I do try the other things, I try the computer things. But paper remains my sensible default. Pen and paper remain my default. Those are the ones I fall back on when everything else stops working. Because that always works for me.

Pens

Patrick Rhone: That's right. Like you said it best, you know, paper is always on. Mm-hmm. So let's talk about the pens you're using to lay down those brilliant thoughts on the paper. So what are we using these days, Patrick? Wow, gosh. What's in heavy rotation? I know you have quite a collection. I want to talk about some of it. But what's the heavy rotation right now?

Brad Dowdy: All right. So heavy rotation right now is the Quaco Sport. The little plastic one that fits in your pocket really nice. I'm probably pronouncing the name wrong. Nope. But, you know, the tiny little thing. And it's green with the gold nib, extra fine. Because I roll like that, I have really tiny handwriting. And so I need extra. I need as fine as possible. So that's always. Because I have it in my pocket almost all the time. The other thing I like about it, you know, I don't have a converter for it. I'm just using the Quaco R cartridges. Do they even make a converter for these?

Patrick Rhone: They don't. And that's kind of a recurring theme that I don't know if Myke, you and I, we've talked about it offline. I can't remember how much we've talked about it online. But we have like readers that are trying different converters, trying to jam them into this Quaco Sport. And no one's been able to do it yet.

Brad Dowdy: Well, I'm going to say something about that. I don't think a converter would be good for this. Yeah. And the reason being is that this is something that's in your pocket. And it's going to get shaken around by, you know, walking and, you know, bumping up against your wallet and your keys and your phone and, you know, everything else. And it's going to get shooken around. And the fact is, is that converters just don't handle that pressure very well, whereas cartridges do.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah. And I think you're just going to get, you're going to get much. I mean, you're already using a short cartridge to begin with. The converter is just going to take up that much more space. You'll probably get half the amount of ink.

Myke Hurley: That's probably why. I mean, because you would be filling it so often. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And, you know, quite frankly, this is not, you know, this is designed to be a utilitarian workhorse thing that you can just stick in your pocket, not care about. And, you know, you might lose it along the way. You just buy another one. Heck, buy two or three at a time because, you know, this is a pen that's meant to go and meant to be used. So, that said, there are certain times when, you know, the fountain pen is not the right choice. Maybe I'm, you know, signing a check with the carbons in the back or something like that. And a lot of times the, you know, the pressure, you know, I don't put the same pressure on a fountain pen that I would on a regular pen. And my go-to gel ink of choice is the Uniball Signo Micro 207s, the .38, is it? Yeah.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah. They just finally started putting those, that specific setup on the shelf, like maybe a year, year and a half ago, which finally, that was a good one.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I dig these. So, at any given time, I'm likely to have these two pens on my body all the time. Like, from the time I wake up in the morning to the time I go to bed at night. That said, I mean, I do have kind of occasion pens and things, pens I use for different things. If I'm going to write a thank you card or sign a birthday card or something like that, I generally use my Levenger True Writer with a stub nib. But it's a one-off stub nib. This was a not, it's a different stub nib than the stubs that they currently sell or have ever sold. This was actually one of their, one of their early prototype models that I happened to come in possession of. And I won't explain how I did that, but let's just say that I did.

Brad Dowdy: But I like it better than the stub nibs they sell. Not to, and I'm a big fan of Levenger. Do not take that wrong. Their stub nibs are great. I like this one better.

Brad Dowdy: And, and yeah. So, I mean, that's the sort of thing that I'll take out for, you know, if I'm, in other words, let me put it this way. If you see a stub nib, I like you more. I like you more than everything else.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah. I'm, I've really turned a corner on nib sizes recently and I'm coming to find out that I'm in love with the stub and it's for, especially for someone like me who writes in a printing style. It really, I don't know. It really helps out. It's a good look. It's a good look.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. It's a very good look. There's so much expression, you know, and that's the other thing too, with, especially with the stub nib, but this is true of, I mean, just writing with pen and paper in general, is that no, you know, no two strokes are the same, right? That everything has its own, its own character and its own vibe. And, and the reason that nuts like me will use different pens for different occasions and different things and stuff like that is because we really do believe that, that, that strokes contain emotion. Mm-hmm. And, and, and, and, and that as, as much as the expression of the words I'm putting on the paper, that that is being expressed in every stroke and in the choice of ink and in the choice of pen and in the choice of card and in the choice of paper, right? I'm, I'm not going to write my to-do list on, on, you know, some, you know, super nice, you know, it's, it's meant to be disposable. I'm going to write it on something disposable, right? Mm-hmm. I'm going to write it with something kind of disposable.

Brad Dowdy: But, you know, a nice card or signing one of my books or something like that, you better believe I'm going to use a nice pen. Yep, exactly.

Patrick Rhone: Exactly. Exactly. So now, I know you also, you probably more than dabble in it, but you, you definitely dabble in some vintage, vintage fountain pens. And I have become, go ahead.

Brad Dowdy: No, no, I was just saying, you know, and I want people to understand that's very easy and relatively inexpensive to do if you're choosing the right pens. But go ahead.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah. What I was going to say is I've become enamored a little bit here with the, the Pilot 51. And I didn't know if, I don't know if you have one. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: It's funny that you mentioned it because I'm literally, I was sitting here cleaning it.

Brad Dowdy: As we've been talking, I've been sitting here cleaning, cleaning my, and it's actually the Parker 51.

Patrick Rhone: I'm sorry. Yeah. I said, Pilot. Gosh, I'm looking at things on my screen. Yes. Parker 51. Goodness gracious. Yeah. Yeah. I have a couple of these senior moments at least, though. At least. I think we're averaging about twice an episode. Sometimes I don't catch it, but sometimes, yes. Thank you. Parker 51. Goodness gracious.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. Yeah. My hands are now covered with green ink because I keep it filled with, oh, geez, what is the noodlers I use for this? I can't see it from where I'm sitting up on the shelf. I forget the color. But it's the one that is kind of, looks like the green that they use on dollar bills. I forget. Yeah. In any case. Yeah. Parker 51. It's green with the gold furniture, as the kids in the fountain pen collecting business call it. The gold colored furniture. Is it banknote green? I'm sorry?

Myke Hurley: Is it noodlers banknote green?

Brad Dowdy: I think that's the one. Yep. There you go. I do what I can. And I am one of those crazy people that I match inks to specific pens and generally don't stray from that. So I'm not one of those, one of these people that's like, oh, I think I'll try purple in this, this week. No, it's, you know, I bought that ink for this pen.

Brad Dowdy: But because this is the, it's kind of that dark British racing green color. Yeah. And I do have the matching pencil as well. Oh, cool. So it's the pen pencil set. And I forget the date of this one. I want to say 63, but I'm not, don't, don't hold me to that. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Regardless. So anyone who hasn't seen a Parker 51, look it up. It's an iconic pen, both in its design. It's, it's, it's classic and it's got a, you know, somewhat unique hooded, hooded nib. And because the nib is hooded, it tends to, you can let it sit for a while, pick it up and it'll still write. And the reason being is that the hood really does help to keep the ink wet. It doesn't dry out very easily. And back in its day, this was, this was kind of your standard workhorse pen. You know, this was the, not quite the Bic before Bic was Bic, but you know, I mean, it was, it was kind of, you know, this, this was not going to be. Yeah. This is, this is kind of the pen that everyone had on their desk or in their drawer.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah. It's the pen your dad had and your grandfather had and their grandfather had, you know, certain time. And, you know, I think they, it started like in the forties and they made, they made them all the way up through sixties or seventies. I mean, they made millions of these pens and, but still to this day, it's like one of the, I mean, like you said, it's, it's an iconic pen and I don't, I own zero, literally zero vintage fountain pens, but the Parker 51. Oh, it's, believe me, it's going to change. The 51 is, I finally got one of my hands to use to test with and it, I'm completely enamored with it. It's a fantastic pen. Yeah. And, yeah, it's.

Brad Dowdy: And, and, and, you know, and because they made millions of them, because they're not only are they inexpensive, but seriously, instead of buying one, ask your dad, ask your granddad, you know, if they're still around, ask your grandma, see if they, you may have one, they may have one sitting in their house that hasn't been used in forever. And the, they just be willing to give to you because these pens were everywhere during their day.

Patrick Rhone: Yep. That's exactly right. And I think that's where a lot of them come from. I mean, it's just hand me downs, you know, looking in, you know, granddad's, you know, old desk drawer and, and no telling what you're going to find there. So.

Brad Dowdy: Well, let me, speaking, speaking of that, and I hope I'm not getting us off topic. Do you want me to cover just a couple, a couple of other great vintage like places to start for collecting vintage pens? That's exactly where I want you to go.

Patrick Rhone: That's my next, my next question is what other, if I'm looking at vintage fountain pens, like I know I want to, I know I want a Parker 51. That's a no brainer. Yeah. What other, what other vintage pens have you had good experiences with? Um, you know, let me, let me put out one criteria. Okay. These, when I buy a pen, it's not for show, it's for use. I want pens that, you know, work good and then I can use it and I can take out of the house and take to work. These, these are, when I buy a pen, it's going to be because I'm going to use it, not because I'm going to, you know, put it up on display somewhere. Right. So that's, that's really my only criteria.

Brad Dowdy: 50, 60 years ago, 70 years ago, and they were workhorse pens then, and they still continue to be workhorse pens today. Um, yeah, totally on board with you. And that's all I'll talk about. I do have pens that do not fit that criteria, but, um, most of the vintage fountain pens I have actually do fall under that. Um, also most of the, the vintage, the pens I'm going to talk about, um, certainly fall under the sub $100 category. Um, this, um, this, this next one I'm going to mention was so ubiquitous, um, and so popular and there's so many out there and such great condition that, uh, you know, if, if you, if you search right, if you go to some of the, you know, kind of fountain, fountain pen hospital, fountain pen form sort of places, you know, um, uh, the fountain pen network and, you know, some of the, some of the fountain pen forms, you can buy them, you know, direct from users for next to nothing. You can find these things on eBay pretty easily too, but you know, eBay's scary. Um, and cause it's, you know, you, you, you, there's just so many scams out there, but yeah, I don't know, not so much in the pen category. Most of these folks are reputable. Um, that said the Estherbrook J the Estherbrook J was, um, uh, geez. Uh, I guess if, uh, you know, if the Parker 51 was the Bic of its day, this was the, uh, the, the number two pencil, right? Right. You know, it's, it's the sort of pen that, uh, students, uh, used to learn to write. Um, you know, the one that they handed them out in school when it was time for penmanship class, uh, back when you used to have such things and we are still in dire need today. Let me tell you. Um, don't get me started on that.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah.

Estherbrook J

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. But, uh, what's wonderful about the Estherbrook J is not only are they relatively cheap, um, you know, probably 30 to $50 for a model that's going to be in great condition. Um, but, um, the nibs, it's got interchangeable nibs and there were a wealth of nibs, uh, available for it. Just about every size style configuration you can imagine. Um, it was meant to be, you know, kind of used for any purpose. So they made like, you know, extra, extra fine accountant nibs and, you know, uh, you know, various stubs with various degrees of flex and everything else. And you could spend, uh, you've spent hours, days just kind of researching. Estherbrook J nibs, because I think, I mean, they literally made like a couple hundred different, different nibs over the life of the, of the brand. I'm, I'm probably exaggerating that some somewhat, but it seems that way. Um, and you're going to have to forgive me because I'm going to have to get up and away from the mic here for just a second because I can't read that number because, well, like I explained, I am old. I forget what this is. Okay. So the nib I have on this one, and this is a, um, kind of the copper burst color. It's got this kind of nice kind of, uh, you know, I don't know, Ripley effect, um, copper color. Um, and, uh, I use a private, um, reserve, uh, copper brown or something like that, uh, in this one. Um, this is the nine five five six, uh, uh, stir brook nib and, uh, nib chart. Uh, yes. Fine writing records and charts.

Patrick Rhone: So you're like, you can, you can look up the number on the nib and, and see what that nib was, uh, created for a insult as originally. Uh, that is correct.

Brad Dowdy: As a matter of fact, I'm actually, uh, on a, on a link here and I will, uh, shoot this over to Michael for the, uh, for the show notes. Now that's pretty cool. Give me a second. Um, but, uh, this is the list of all of the nibs going from 1314, uh, which was a flexible stub all the way to 9968, which was a firm, broad script. Yeah.

Patrick Rhone: This is going to cause me a problem, Patrick. I don't know if I should have had you on, you know, I was, I was giving a hard time about spending his money and now here you go.

Brad Dowdy: Well, cause here's the thing, right? And that is that all you need is the one, the one pen and all your money is going to dive deep into all the various nibs you can get. But, but the nibs are going to be like, you know, uh, five bucks, 10 bucks, you know, here and there. Right. But it's, it's, they're going to nickel and dime you to death.

Patrick Rhone: That level of, that level of customization is, is awesome. That really speaks to me. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And, and, uh, you know, it really is a super easy to change, uh, to change out the nib and, and, uh, you know, switch things up whenever you want. I only have this one nib on it and because it's perfect for me. Uh, this is actually probably one of my best writers amongst the vintages go. Um, the, uh, other final one, cause you know, we're running short on time and I want to, want to make sure I get everything in here. Uh, the other one is, um, the Parker vacuummatic series, um, you know, which they made in like the thirties and forties. Um, uh, they are just, they're beautiful pens. Um, they come in, uh, a variety of kind of barrel sizes and, uh, and, and links.

Patrick Rhone: Uh, is, is that the one with like the, the horizontal circles around that are all different colors? Is that one?

Brad Dowdy: Well, yeah, they actually made them, uh, with kind of, um, the, the horizontal, uh, striping and, and, uh, you know, with the kind of mother purling stuff along the barrel. But they also made it in the vertical. Mine's one of the, one of the verticals and it really depends on the, the year and, uh, and, and the model and, and things like that. Um, but the, uh, I'm going to see if I, they're really good.

Patrick Rhone: They're, uh, yeah, I, I was trying to put two and two together just from what I've been, been looking at. Those are really attractive pens. I mean, they really, you know, there's not a lot of pens these days that, that really look that good. I mean, it's kind of a, a unique style. I know there's definitely, you know, other pens have tried to copy that. And actually Pelican makes a nice vertical, you know, kind of a stripe pen that's really pretty and really, all the colors really pop from the, the inlays and things like that. But those, uh, vacuumatics are really cool looking.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. Just gorgeous, gorgeous pens. Um, but, uh, and with a unique, the reason they're called the vacuum, vacuum attic is because they, they kind of pioneered that, um, that vacuum piston fill. Um, uh, and so one of the things you do kind of have to be wary of, uh, you know, when, when buying these things is you want to make sure that, that, that, um, you know, that, that those mechanics are in good working order. Um, certainly what can happen is if they are stored and, you know, kind of the ink dries up in there and whatnot, um, you know, they can, they can become problematic is I guess all I'm, all I'm trying to say. And so you want to definitely, that's one that you don't want to just, uh, find someone on eBay and, you know, buy. You probably want to go to one of the very active fountain pen forums and buy it from someone there. Someone who's also a fountain pen aficionado, who's going to be upfront with you about its condition and working order is keep in mind. These are, you know, largely made in the, uh, late thirties, early forties. And so, you know, they're fairly old pens.

Patrick Rhone: Yeah, that's exactly. I agree with that completely. Cause I'm looking at, I've been trying to do my research online for the ones that I want. And then when I go, I'm an, there's an Atlanta pen show in April, then I can go to some of these vendors and, you know, make sure I'm getting a good one that's been, you know, either rebuilt on the inside or restored properly. And that, you know, there's no micro cracks or, you know, the, the ink sack is, you know, attached properly and, and things like that. Cause yeah, I mean, these pens are 50, 60, 70 years old in, in most, in most cases. So, I mean, there's just going to be some inherent problems with there. So I'm going to buy it from someone reputable where I can get it in my hand and know that I'm getting a, getting something that's going to work properly. Right.

Brad Dowdy: Well, and one of the other nice things is if you want to get into this, you find you enjoy it and you find that you, you know, that vintage pens are something that you're interested in participating in these forms and these networks will hook you up with folks that are, you know, I mean, that are professional pen restorers. Right. And so, I mean, you know, and it can, it can get expensive. Sure. But, you know, you might pay 30, 40 bucks for, for a pen and yeah, there, let's just say you paid, you know, 25, 30, knowing that you, that it's going to be in not the greatest working order. You know, you could send it off to somebody for the cost of shipping plus, you know, 50 bucks, you know, or whatever their charges are, you know, have it restored to, you know, as good as new or, you know, as close as you're going to get with a 70 year old pen, 80 year old pen, 90 year old pen.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. You know, for, for, I think a good investment and well taken care of, well restored. There's no reason why any of these pens should not continue to work just as well for another 90 years. You should be able to pass these down to your children and say, hey, here's what a pen used to look like. Yeah. Remember those? Remember the days before our voices and fingers? No, you don't. Well, this is what it was like. We had to write with these things on something called paper. I know. It was a true hardship. Yeah.

Patrick Rhone: Both, both of us have daughters that are about the same age. I know they, you know, we've never talked about it and maybe that's a whole nother episode. We'll have to have you back on, but, you know, trying to get my daughter, you know, I always make sure she's got pens and paper. That's like a huge, huge deal for me. And I know, I know knowing you, I know it's probably the same way with you, but yeah, that's, that's a, that's a whole nother tangent for a, for a whole nother day. It certainly is.

Brad Dowdy: It certainly is. But I mean, the, the nice thing is, is that for the same amount of money that I'm about to spend on a bottle of ink, you could get a, you can get a 50, 60 year old fountain pen. Right. That's great. That's in great working order. Right. And so the, you know, a lot of people think, oh, gosh, it's so expensive. No, it's really, it's really not. It's, it's actually quite affordable. I mean, certainly there are, there are vintage pens that will set you back two, three, four thousand dollars. Sure. You know, limited edition, you know, certain age, you know, certain pedigree, whatever.

Brad Dowdy: You know, but guess what? There are brand new pens that are, they'll set you back that. Right. You know, I can, I could show you a thousand dollar mop block. Right. Right. You know, I mean, if you're going to get one of, I mean, you're going to spend a few hundred dollars for, for, you know, for a Namiki vanishing point.

Namiki Vanishing Point

Brad Dowdy: And you want to have some customizations done to that. Like I saw my, my Namiki vanishing point has a extra, extra fine binder ground nib, Richard Brinder, you know, that's a $400 pen. Right. Get ready. You know? Exactly. By the time, by the time you add it all up. And so, you know, it's, it's, it really is about, you know, kind of how, what, what level you want to get into and how deep you want to get into this stuff. But just like with the new stuff, there's super affordable stuff at every level. And I couldn't more highly urge people to go out there and investigate this stuff because there's, you know, I don't know. There's just something about writing with a pen that you, that you know, you know, someone wrote with, you know, 70, 80, a hundred years ago.

Patrick Rhone: Yep.

Brad Dowdy: There's something special about that.

Patrick Rhone: Yep. Well, I couldn't agree with you more. And I definitely appreciate the enlightenment today. And I think we'll wrap it up for today. But now, now I think I probably just have more questions. So we'll have to do this again soon.

Brad Dowdy: I'd love to. I really, you know, I mean, this is something that I'm, that I'm very, I'm very passionate about. And so I appreciate you having me on.

Patrick Rhone: Absolutely. Absolutely. And we will definitely do it again. Do you have, do you have anything to add, Myke?

Myke Hurley: No, I'll just do the wrap up. Thanks a lot, Pat, for joining us. You can find Patrick at PatrickRohan.com. That's P-A-T-R-I-C-K-R-H-O-N-E. And Pat is PatrickRohan on app.net and Twitter. Brad, you can find Brad at penaddict.com. He is Dowdyism, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M on Twitter. And just Dowdy, D-O-W-D-Y on app.net. I am iMike, I-M-Y-K-E on both. Thank you, Patrick. Thank you, Brad, as always. And thank you. We will talk next week. And I have, I have a Field Notes obsession, Brad. It's just getting worse and worse. I find myself, like while we were talking, I'm searching for more. I got the day game. They arrived. It's just, it's getting out of hand.

Patrick Rhone: Man, you're going to leave us hanging on that, huh? Well, that's a good tease for next week, then.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, it's getting pretty ridiculous right now. So we'll talk about it next week.

Patrick Rhone: All right, guys. Well, I appreciate it. We'll talk to you soon.

Myke Hurley: All right. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.