The Pen Addict 85/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	85
Title:	Getting Ink With Dan Bishop
Release Date:	December 17th, 2013
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	Dan Bishop
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 85
Audio File:	Audio Episode 85
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 85
Length:	6363 min <br />1.05 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Pen Addict Podcast

Myke Hurley: Hello and welcome to episode 85 of The Pen Addict podcast, a weekly show where we discuss pens, paper, and the analogue tools that we love so dearly. Pen Addict is a show on the glorious 5x5 network. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by two people today again. They are both crazy kings of Kickstarter, Mr. Brad Dowdy and Mr. Dan Bishop. Hello, gentlemen.

Brad Dowdy: Hello, sir. How are you? Very well. How are you? Good, good. Dan, how are you? I'm good. I got an introduction, so I'm pretty good. Yeah, I think you're the king of Kickstarter. I'll be the prince or maybe the court jester or something like that.

Myke Hurley: I like court jester.

Karis Customs Fountain Pen

Brad Dowdy: Well, good. I'm glad to have you on today. I know your latest Kickstarter project with Karis Customs, the ink fountain pen, is just awesome. And we're going to talk about that a bunch today. And I was excited to have you on to talk about this one because this one's been in the works for a while. So we'll get into all that here momentarily. But I know we got some follow-up items. And what you got for us, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Well, neither of them are really follow-up as such. I mean, I think we might have some next week. I assume you've probably got your DDC factory floor. I do. Yeah, I don't have mine yet. So maybe we'll talk about those next week. Okay. Because I expect to have them. Did I say about how I kind of purchased it without sorting out international shipping? Did I tell you about that?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. You told me about that, I think, offline. I don't know that you told that on the show.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, because basically with the books, my mind is totally blanking right now.

Brad Dowdy: Basically, you ordered without added shipping kind of thing.

Myke Hurley: Yes, exactly. And what they do at Draplin is they don't really have international shipping options in the shipping information field. Yeah. Which is kind of US. It's free to US. And I saw afterwards that you kind of have to contact them first to get a shipping quote. So I basically sent them an email afterwards. And Aaron Draplin was like, just send me 10 bucks and we're good. And I was like, that was just, I just wanted to mention that because it was kind of just like a perfect interaction with him. It's like, they've already been shipped. Send me $10 and we're all good. I was like, we'll do, buddy.

Myke Hurley: So I've had an awesome mail week.

Myke Hurley: I've received two very, very nice things from amazing listeners of the show. Now, Brad was being a bit sneaky with me for a while. Like he asked for my address a little while ago and stuff like that. And now I know why. So I have one pen, a new pen. And an answer to a question I had quite a while ago. So basically now I am the owner of a pelican. Phantom pen. Woohoo! Which is an amazing thing. Mr. Thomas Hall. It's at TR Hall. On Twitter had arranged via Brad to send me a pelican. Which is just an incredible gift to receive. Like I was kind of blown away by it. And I now have an M215. EF nib blue black. Which apparently is no longer for sale as well. Which is even sweeter. And yeah. I don't really know what to say about it. But I was kind of blown away by it in all honesty. Because it was such an awesome gift to receive.

Myke Hurley: And it's something that I've been wanting for a while. And now I don't have to spend my own money to get a pelican on my own. Yeah. And I've been using it for a couple of days. And I've been... I've really been enjoying it actually. It's such a nice pen to look at. And it's built really, really well. The nib is extra fine. And it's maybe a little bit too fine for me. And I've been having sort of an inconsistent experience with like the paper that I'm using. Which has also made me realize. I think there's something different about the paper in Cold Horizon Field Notes. I think it's more absorbent. Okay. And it might be because of the dye they've put in it or something. But it's also bleeding through more than my other field notes.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. I need to check that out. I keep saying I'm going to crack mine open and test it out. I would like it if you could. I haven't gotten there yet.

Myke Hurley: This is totally anecdotal. But I've been using... I used the... What are the black ones called? Why do I keep forgetting? I don't know.

Brad Dowdy: What's happened to me today? Night Sky or Pitch Black? Pitch Black.

Myke Hurley: Pitch Black. So we've got Pitch Black and Cold Horizon. And I'm using both of those today with the same pen. And it lays a totally different line on both. So I decided to maybe think about getting a new nib for my Pelican. Sure. And I've gone and done that. Oh, look at you. I know. This was Mr. Hall. He has... We've been conversing via email and he's been helping me out to make sure that, you know, he was suggesting a few things to me. And he told me that he hadn't told you and we were going to keep it a secret so you didn't know about it because of what I bought. So I bought a medium nib. Mm-hmm. But I bought a gold one. Ooh. Nice. So I now have a... It's arrived, but I've not swapped the nibs over yet. Okay. So I bought the M400 replacement 14-karat gold nib.

Brad Dowdy: Ooh. Cool. Yeah, that's the nib I have. Well, I had a, you know, modified extra, extra, extra, extra fine. But I think you're going to like it. Those nibs are pretty great and that's one of the great things about Pelican is it takes about two seconds to swap a nib. It just unscrews right from the barrel and you can go and, you know, do things like you just did, switch from a steel nib. You know, as long... You got to make sure the 200 series and the 400 series are interchangeable as far as nibs go. If you get into the larger sizes, of course, it's not going to work. But yeah, that's easy to do and cool. I'm glad you did that. I think you're going to really like that. But I'm interested...

Myke Hurley: I'm going to be interested to see if I like the medium. I bought medium because I thought I'd go safe. But then the more I've been thinking, like, maybe I should have got fine. So I'll see. I bought it from Cold Pants. There's always more nibs to buy. Exactly. Well, not at this price. Yeah, the gold ones are pretty expensive. Yeah, it was 64 pounds. So it's probably nearly $100. Yeah. So they're not cheap. But I've been told that the gold nibs are the ones to buy.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, they're great. And listen, this pen... We'll have to find a link to this pen. Actually, I've done a review of it that I don't think I've ever posted to show people a picture of this pen. And what this one is, is this one, it's the 215. I think it's called... I don't know if it's called... I think it's called a blue stripe.

Myke Hurley: It's called blue black. I've found an image. I've found a link and I'll put it in the show notes, which are at 5x5.tv slash penaddict slash 85. 85, blimey.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, what's different about it is it has vertical metal stripes in it. So it gives the pen an awesome weight.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, the weight is incredible. I've been so confused by it. Because it obviously has the plastic feel, but it's got weight to it. Yep. And obviously it's because they're not just silver accents. They're actually pieces of metal. Yeah, it's like inlays, I guess is the word I'm looking for. The website actually says that it has a metal body and cap which have been lacquered. So maybe the whole thing is metal. But yeah, I'm a big fan of it and I'm really interested.

Brad Dowdy: I'm a big fan of Thomas Hall because he sent me one too. And he's a pretty amazing guy to just up and do that for guys like us. It's pretty special to make a friendship like that and someone who believes in what we're doing in and wants to share his bounty with us. It's pretty cool.

Myke Hurley: But this week, so yes, thank you. Thank you, Thomas. It's been awesome. And also to have you help me with the nib buying has been really cool too. And he sent me some instructions on how to safely remove and replace the nib as well. But I've had a very emotional week in that regard because I received another gift. This one's been a long time coming actually. I received a message on app. It was quite many, many weeks ago actually. I'm kind of taking a look now. It's from Christian Hessman. He's at Hessie on app.net and Twitter. And he's a podcaster himself. And he was kind of like, look, I want to send you a thing.

Myke Hurley: He said, tell me some colors that you like. So I told him to hold on like green and orange. And he said, look, you know, there are some other things that I need to ask you, but it will give it away. So either you let me make decisions for you or you find out what it is. And I was like, well, after, you know, doing the usual, because I can't, you know, I can't in good faith just accept gifts from people. After telling him that he really, really, really did not need to do it. It was a month ago looking at the chat conversation. I kind of said, look, if you're going to get me something, I like surprises. So, you know, if you listen to the show, you know what I like. So go for it. And then I received a package a couple of days ago. And it is a, the best way to describe this is it's like a, it's like a case, but also a personal organizer type deal. So what I have here is, it's from, this is from a German company.

Rotofaden Tashenbergleiter

Myke Hurley: Now I'm going to butcher this because I just, it's difficult, right? The company is called Rotofaden, which is R-O-T-E-R-F-A-D-E-N. And this product, I believe, is called Tashenbergleiter. That's what this product is called. T-A-S-C-H-E-N-B-E-G-L-E-I-T-E-R, which basically roughly translated is called Pocket Companion. And what this is, is it's kind of like a folio, right? If you remember, I was talking many weeks ago about a case that I wanted for my iPad. But I wanted a folio case, which had space for notebooks and stuff in it.

Myke Hurley: And that's kind of exactly what this is. So on the right-hand side, I have, my iPad is now in this case and it's held in by like elastic. And then there are these three like clips, I guess, are the way to put it, that go run down the spine of the book, the spine of the folio. And on the left-hand side, you have pockets. Now in these spines, you lift them up and you can lay books down inside them and clip them in. So it's kind of like a, you would, you remember the Pelley Journal? Where you would slide the books underneath the elastic. Right. It's basically like that, but they're metal clasps instead. Right.

Brad Dowdy: So there's room for three notebooks inside this. There's three individual clasps. Yep.

Myke Hurley: Exactly. That's, that's exactly it. And so I, as well as this, and just, you know, I have my field notes in there. So they're sort of like hanging out in the pockets. And then I have, what Christian also sent me was a couple of the notebooks that they make. And he recommends the paper and the paper is very, very nice. I've not done sort of any, I haven't done a lot of testing on it, but it's very, very nice for fountain pens actually. And I also have a set of paper, sorry, plastic wallets, you know, like little document wallets. That comes with it as well. So I clip those in so I can put my papers in here. And it has two pen loops.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, I see one on the side, one on the bottom.

Myke Hurley: Yes. And I have two because they're all custom made. Wow. So every single item is custom made. So I have a green leather exterior and an orange felt inside. Oh, cool. It's so awesome. So yeah, you select everything and it's all custom made. And he even requested that the pen loops were larger than normal. Wow. So it fits both my Twosby 540 in one of them and I have my Pelican in the other. And even more than all of this, this was a really, really awesome gift that I've been using and loving actually. So if you take a look at these images and you think you want one, and I don't know, I'm sure that they do ship abroad. But they're not cheap. Like it's really not cheap. And actually, I've just seen the price for the first time and I'm now blown away because I didn't want to look. And I've seen it. And I can't believe he's done that for me. So thank you, Christian. But he sent me a note. So he basically took a couple of pages and wrote this really nice sort of letter. And he was talking about how he found out about the show. He had some sort of interest in pens, but he was looking for a new journaling system. And he found our episode on the Bullet Journal. He thought that the idea of a pen show was ridiculous.

Listener Email

Myke Hurley: But he liked us. So he then went and listened to all 81 episodes in one month. And I want to read this very quickly because I think this is awesome. So previously to this, he had bought himself. He had one of these Tashenberg lifers. I can't do it. He had one of these anyway. And he was looking for a new journaling system to put his books in. And he had a Lamy multi-pen. So after the one month of listening to our show, this is Christian's list of things that he now owns, which he's a significant other now hates us for. Two Pilot Hi-Tech Cs, one Pentel Sleechy, three Pignal Microns, one Edding Profit Pen? Don't know that one. One Pilot G2, a Monteverdi Pequito, a Tombow, one Kuru Toga, three Autographic Liners, a bunch of refills for his Lamy, three Lamy Safaris, one Lamy Joy, one Parker Frontier, a Colt Pens Mini Fountain Pen, one Twisby Vax 700, a Pelican M200 Demonstrator, one Pilot Vanishing Point, get this, 23 bottles of ink, and a Goulet Pens ink drop subscription. So we have converted yet another normal human into a pen addict. And I wanted to just take some time because I thought it was an awesome thing to receive and I love the product. It's really, really cool. So yeah, thank you so much, Christian, for doing this. And he didn't ask for me to do this. He said, I didn't even need to talk about it or ever mention it, but I wanted to because it warmed. I have had a warm heart the past couple of days because of those two gentlemen, I'll tell you that.

Brad Dowdy: That is awesome. Man, that's cool. I love seeing stuff like that and reading emails like that. But like he said, I'm sure his wife hates us. We have a lot of, as much love as we get, there's some hate on the other side of the ledger for dipping into the bank account sometimes too frequently. But yeah, it's all in good fun and we appreciate it. That's awesome.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. And I've totally just like dominated the first 15 minutes of the show. Hi, Dan. Hi. So we're going to, we're going to talk about your new Kickstarter project. But I think before we do that, I should probably thank our sponsor for the show. Brad, do you have anything else that you want to talk about on this side of the show before we jump over? Nope.

None

Brad Dowdy: I think we're good.

Myke Hurley: So let's take a quick moment to thank our fine friends over at Squarespace, the all-in-one platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own website. For a free trial and 10% off, go over to squarespace.com and use the offer code Tallyho12. Squarespace is constantly updating their platform with new features, designs, and more support. They have beautiful templates for you to start with and tons of style options for you to adjust so you can really create your own space online. Squarespace takes care of hosting, SEO, and even makes sure that your site automatically looks great on any device. It's incredibly easy to use, but if you need any help, over 70 Squarespace employees are on the customer care team, which is based in New York City. Squarespace also have two new brand new iOS apps for Squarespace customers. They have Squarespace blog, which lets you easily post drafts and post straight to your site. You can schedule posts and review them too, as well as monitoring and managing your comments all on your iPhone or iPad. Squarespace blog is fully integrated with Layout Engine, allowing you to easily format text or markdown. You can tap and drag images around your post and modify detailed post settings on the go. They've also launched Squarespace metrics, which allows you to monitor website analytics, page views, and unique visitor information, as well as projections and charts for your website. They're all at your fingertips. They've also updated their Note and Portfolio apps for iOS 7, and they've also added some cool new features like audio collections for musicians, and if you use their commerce platform and their shipping stuff, they have a new 3D visualizer for shipping information too, which is really, really cool. So as I said earlier, you can try Squarespace for free. No credit card needed to do that, and if you decide to purchase, it starts at just $8 a month and includes the domain name if you sign up for a year. Don't forget, you'll get 10% off and support The Pen Addict if you use the offer code Tallyho12, T-A-L-L-Y-H-O-1-2. Thanks so much to Squarespace for all the support of The Pen Addict and all of 5x5.

Brad Dowdy: Awesome. Thank you, Squarespace. Thank you.

Brad Dowdy: So Mr. Bishop, yes, how many cases of Red Bull do you have in your closet right now?

Brad Dowdy: Zero.

Dan Bishop: Because you drank them all?

Myke Hurley: Because you drank them all, yeah.

Dan Bishop: No. It's funny, I texted Brad right before the show and I said, I just drank an energy drink. This should be interesting because I'm, anybody who knows me, I'm what would politely be called a spaz. And I don't drink coffee. I don't usually do caffeine. And today I was kind of feeling wound down so I had an energy drink and everybody at work was looking at me like I was crazy because I was all spun out. But,

Brad Dowdy: I think I'm okay. So, okay, good because you are, you're quite a busy man these days.

Retract Project

Brad Dowdy: Before we, before we get into the ink, tell me about how wrapping up the, the Render K, I mean the Render K, the Retract project. I mean, you don't have to go into specifics, but you're, you've, that project just funded like two months ago and you've got everything shipped already. And, yeah, I mean it's, it's pretty much, you've gone right in from, from the Retract right into this ink. So tell me about, you know, the, the decision to kind of back these up together because I just look at it as like, man, I know how hard it was for me just to put together the Kickstarter that, that Jeff and I did for NOG and to, to run these, run these together I think is, is borderline insanity.

Dan Bishop: Well, the, the current one is our fourth so I'm, I'm kind of, it's kind of a old hat like I've been doing Kickstarter almost on a daily basis since 2011.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm.

Dan Bishop: Um, but you're right, you know, you, you get the project, uh, you get it all wrapped up, you, you ship them all out and then you kind of breathe a sigh of relief, you know, everybody relaxes a bit but then, um, uh, if, if we had a small snafu with some of the pens, um, which is the absolute, like, worst case scenario. Um, we shipped out a bunch of the pens and people were messaging us going, my pen doesn't work, my pen doesn't work and you get this feeling in your, in your belly like it just sinks and, uh, what happened was during the polishing process, um, a little burr got rolled into the tip of the pen and, uh, so we, we discovered the problem and we jumped on Kickstarter and said, hey, we know what's going on, we're going to set up a system, we'll exchange them out, no problem. And, um, luckily it was, uh,

Dan Bishop: it was something that we could remedy pretty quickly and, um, we're still getting some people trickling in but, uh, it, it had the potential to be really bad and it wasn't, luckily so, um, and then we started the ink.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, well, I think the way, I think the way you jumped on that, on the, the retract thing was, was pretty awesome. I mean, y'all had that squared away like, in about, I don't know, 24 hours or so about after people started getting their, their, uh, products and, you know, emailing y'all with questions, you had like a system set up for exchanges, replacements, you said, here's exactly what happened, here's exactly what's going on, here's exactly how to fix it and, it was all good from there so I know, I know that was, I know that was probably stressful as all get out but,

Dan Bishop: uh, the way,

Brad Dowdy: I thought the way y'all handled it was, was, was really good.

Dan Bishop: Yeah, we, uh, we really tried to, we tried to be transparent, you know, in our, showing how they're made and everything else and so, there's no advantage to, to hiding information so, we just said, hey, this happened, we'll fix it and, uh, we're still, you know, getting, uh, an occasional person contacting us and we're, we're taking care of it so.

Brad Dowdy: Awesome. So, ink, a fountain pen and a rollerball option but, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep calling it the fountain pen because that's, that's the way I see it. I see it as, a machine fountain pen by, by Karis Customs so tell us how this really came about. I know you've been talking about doing this or wanted to do this for quite a while so tell us about kind of the genesis and how you figured out the best way to kind of put this pen together.

Brad Dowdy: Let's see,

Fountain Pens

Dan Bishop: where to begin. um, after talking with every, I mean, it wasn't, it was inevitable. I mean, just like you eventually moved into the world of fountain pens, a lot of people, if they appreciate pens, they seem to graduate towards fountain pens and, um, being, talking to you guys and people contacting us through Kickstarter or email, they said, hey, hey, what about a fountain pen? What about a fountain pen? We want to see a fountain pen. So, um, I started the process actually right after the Render K, um, trying to find nibs and setting up, um, sources for that stuff and we found a, a few nibs through, uh, Schmidt that we liked and, um, started, uh, designing around those and, um, I really just, uh, put my nose to the grindstone and, you know, pen to paper and started sketching and, I, for the first time, everyone was surprised there was no knurling Yeah. um, on the fountain pen but, um, it was a, a process that kind of began with, um, it's mostly aesthetics because figuring out how a nib assembly can fit inside a pen and that fits inside a cap and all that stuff, that's, you know, that's kind of what I do at work. I mean, I do mechanical, um, stuff all the time but, designing something that people, non-fountain pen people would be drawn to and that fountain people wouldn't find too outlandish was, was the line that I had to walk and, uh, most of it came down to the clip. Um, because on the ink, um, the clip design is completely different than our other pens. We've actually used the same clip on our previous three pens and I did a complete redesign. I wanted something completely new and so, I came up with the idea of the, the one piece kind of one dimensional clip, um, fitted into a slot on the cap and it, uh, it turned out really, really nice, I think. I, uh, I'm really pleased with, uh, the overall aesthetic of the pen.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I, I think the, the looks are, are fantastic. The thing that I personally like the most and from when you even, you know, started showing me sketches way back in the day was just, I guess, the, the barrel silhouette, I guess, if you will, just the, the shape of the barrel is exactly like if I was designing a fountain pen, this is kind of my favorite, um, barrel shape, if you will, to write with. It's slightly wider diameter than you would think of a normal pen and here you go, Myke. Oh, that was for you. Killing me. Um, it's, it's slightly wider in the middle than, you know, say like a Pelican M205 or whatever. It's just a straight, um, probably standard, standard diameter barrel. This one kind of flares out just a little bit in the middle and tapers down, um, towards the cap and tapers a little bit towards the front. Um, I don't know. That's just a really good, good shape for me. I, I've, ever since I saw that first, first drawing of yours, I was like, I gotta get one of these in my hands because I think it's going to be just right for, for what I like in a pen and it, and it really is. I, I like the feel of it. It's, um, you know, it's, it's aluminum, so it's not overly heavy at all.

Myke Hurley: Um,

Brad Dowdy: it feels really, yeah, I, I think you mean aluminum. Yeah, thank you. Say it right.

Myke Hurley: I don't say it at all.

Brad Dowdy: It's aluminum.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, because you have one in hand, right? You're not just, teasing everyone. You actually have one.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, no, no, I have one. Um, yeah, Dan sent me a prototype. I got it on Friday, so I haven't had it too, too long, but I've been using it ever since, and, uh, you know, I'm, I'm enjoying, uh, the, the writing experience with it. I like the, the section smooth, and, you know, we have a link, uh, to your blog post you did, Dan, where you, we talk about designing the pen and taking it from sketch and everything, and I saw one of the old pictures, which I haven't seen before. You shared some of, some of them with me as the part of the process was going through, but I did see one where you had knurling on the grip, uh, on the grip section. Yes. And, uh, but I think, I think, uh, smooth is, is, was the way to go with this. I think it just aesthetically, it probably wouldn't have looked right. Um, but I think, no, I just could say this, this, the section design is really good. It's a good, comfortable, comfortable writing pen. I just, I just like how it fits in my hand. It's really good.

Dan Bishop: Well, the funny thing about that grip section, um, when I was looking, because I, I mentioned, like you said, that blog post, um, there's not many machined fountain pens. I mean, there's very few. I mean, granted, a lot of the other ones that are acrylic and things are machined, but there's not many metal, uh, pens. Now, the, the pen that kind of inspired the genesis of all this was, uh, the Nakaya. I think that's how you say it.

Brad Dowdy: Um,

Dan Bishop: they have a titanium piccolo, which is an awesome pen. And, uh, if you look up the, the, that, that pen, there was a lot of elements about it that I really liked. and the, the grip section has this, um, a tapered, uh, the tapered swords with the nib, but then it flares out with kind of a square collar. And my original design actually had that. And then we made it and I used it and it felt horrible. So I actually, you know, was a kind of an irritation to, uh, Josh in our shop because he was, he was helping me with the prototypes. I said, uh, I made a new design. This one's not going to work. And he's, he looked at me like, are you kidding me? I have a bin full of, of, of parts that are the other shape. Um, and we, we remade them, you know, and, and that means he had to remake them in the fountain pen configuration and the roller ball configuration and in copper, brass, and aluminum, you know, he had to redo them. And so, but in the end, um, this, the shape for the grip section just kind of worked its way out and, uh, every, everybody that has tried it, you know, has liked it. so, I think it was a good decision to, to go with this, um, more, I don't know what you would call it, voluptuous shape rather than the real squared off look.

Brad Dowdy: Now that I've never heard, uh, in the description of a fountain pen that it's voluptuous.

Myke Hurley: It's kind of got like a, the look of it is like, it's kind of like larger than life.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm.

Dan Bishop: It's, it's kind of bulky. I mean, a lot of the pens, and here's, during the process, like I said, I, I would send texts to Brad. I would, I would send pictures to Myke and say, hey, look what we're making. And he would send back responses in all caps. And I was very, I was very cryptic, but I was also contacting Ed Jelly, um, um, and, uh, believe it or not, uh, Myke Dudek. He, I would have him come down. I'd say, hey, that new fountain pen that you have, can you bring it down here? I want to look at something. And so he actually, um, helped me decide, you know, what style I want to do on certain things and what I did and didn't like, but it was also an excuse to go out and get hamburgers for lunch. but everybody gave really good feedback, um, along the way. And it was, it's always encouraging that when you come up with something and people go, yeah, that looks good. Or that's a little, you know, that looks better. And so this was kind of a, a small community effort, whereas a lot of my pens in the, in the past, I've kind of designed them on my own. So this one, um, I have to thank everybody who, who, you know, participated or at least just ood and odd when I said them stuff that made me, uh, feel encouraged to push forward. So.

Myke Hurley: See, I can't help but think then that you made this project for me.

Myke Hurley: Oh,

Dan Bishop: I did actually, part of it. Um, the rollerball functionality, is that what you're talking about?

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Well, and the, the, the, the, the manufacturer of the nib as well, but yeah, go on. So talk about the, because in case it's not clear from what we said before, it's basically one pen design, but you can either get it in a fountain pen or as a rollable, right? Correct. You can choose, you can buy both, which what I've done, I, I want one of each. Um, and you'll see, everyone will see why in, in a mere matter of moments that they don't know already. Um, but you can choose to have it in, in, in one or, in one or the other, because obviously they have different mechanisms inside, so to be manufactured slightly differently is my understanding, like the way that you would, uh, looking at like some of the designs, you can see how they, they slightly differ on the inside from what you're making, but say, please tell the people why this is, this is the Myke Hurley project in that regard.

Dan Bishop: Well, it's a little bit of ego, but it's also a little bit of, can I do it? Um, because every time we talk about pens and there's, you know, wish lists or gift guides, Mr. Myke Hurley always says, I love the retro 51. I love the retro, and understandably so. And so I did, um, I did a bit of, of digging and I'm like, well, what about the pen makes it so fantastic? And in my opinion, it's the refill. Yes, 100%. Well, the pens are also very nice. I own a surf, you know, uh, there, there's nothing wrong with those, but the refill is spectacular. And so I said, hmm, can I make a, this pen take that refill? And I mean, so I, I did it. I just, uh, I just, uh, designed a different grip section and it'll also take a Parker compatible refill. So someone likes a, like a space pen or, you know, or whatever else it will work too. But this was designed to work best with that very refill. Cause I wanted to kind of displace the other pen on your list subconsciously. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: See, I wonder, I'm, I mean, I obviously don't want to speak too soon, but I mean, it's, it is all about that refill for me. Now obviously retro, retro 51, they rebrand it that they call it like the retro, they call it the RAF five P, um, for that, like the black version. But I mean, obviously I've done some digging on it and I know that the, the Schmidt, is it P eight, two, six, one, eight, eight, one, two, six, eight, one, two, six. That was from memory. All right. So, you know, I maybe got one number off. Um, it's the same.

Dan Bishop: You call yourself a super fan. Oh, uh,

Myke Hurley: and yeah, so that, that refill I think is, is absolutely perfect. Um, and so to, I'm really interested as, uh, to, to use it in a, in a, in a new, in a new body, but I'm excited. I think, I feel like you've made a great decision and as well, because you also use Schmidt for the nib manufacturer, right? They, they make the nib. And I've used, um, the tornado fountain pen, which is a Schmidt nib. Mm. And that is also fantastic. One of my favorite fountain pens. So, I mean, I think that you've definitely gone with the right decision. I'm really pleased that you're actually including, I'm right in thinking you're including the, the Schmidt refill, right? With the, with the pen.

Dan Bishop: Yeah. The, the, for the roller ball, they get a refill and with the fountain pen, they get the converter.

Refill Inclusion

Myke Hurley: Yeah. And I, I think that especially the inclusion of the refill itself, rather than just saying it supports it is good. Cause I think it gives people a great, uh, experience out of the box, even though they can change it to their favorite, but it is a really special refill. Um, and it has some special qualities to it too. And I think that it's, it's really good to give that to somebody for their first experience with the pen. If they go with a rollable version.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Yeah. I think I'm going to have to eventually, I just backed, I backed the, um, orange, of course, uh, ink, but I'm going to have to break down and get a roller ball too, just because I like that refill so much. And, and let's, let's, let's talk about orange for a second. You did a couple of different things with this project compared to some of the others, other, uh, Karis customs, Kickstarter projects. Yes. Yes. You did, um, you know, the, the, the Karis customs MO in the past has been aluminum, brass, and copper barrels, um, for the pens. And this time it's just stuck with the aluminum and, but you have offered the anodizing up front this time, the colored anodizing, which you've always offered in the other pens after the fact, um, you know, the, the render K, um, the bolt. Um, can you get, you can you get the retract anodized yet? No. Okay. Is that going to be an option later or no? That might pose some issues. Well, there's, I didn't think about that before I just asked it to you. No, that's fine.

Dan Bishop: Um, yeah, the retract, we're looking at, um, some different options. Um, and, you know, we haven't talked about this before, but, um, we're, we're playing around with some different configurations, possibly doing a, a two tone, um, to kind of go for a more classic look instead of the whole thing.

Brad Dowdy: But, um, classic Parker Jotter look where they do all, all the separate looks. I think that's cool. Yeah.

Dan Bishop: Kind of an homage to that. But, um, the main reason being that you, you never know how popular something's going to be, especially off of Kickstarter. Cause the, the, the render K wasn't that popular for us after Kickstarter. I mean, it was gangbusters and then it just kind of crickets. So you don't want to immediately throw a bunch of stock into colors that kind of sit. Um,

Myke Hurley: sure.

Dan Bishop: Uh, we had an argument, not an argument, I guess, but, um, when Bill and I talk about things, we were both kind of loud people and everyone, the new guys, if a new guy walks in from the shop, walks in, he thinks we're like going to get into a fist fight, but it's just us being like boisterous about, about what we're talking about. And, uh, for example, we, the gold color on the anodize, um, it doesn't sell particularly well on certain items that we have. People just didn't buy it. And I wanted it for this, this project. And we'll see if I end up with, you know, egg on my face, but I, people, I think it looks really good on something like a fountain pen with a, like a silver grip section. So the color is, is something that you have to invest in because if you want stock, you have to, you know, we're going to take 50 of these. We're going to take them to the anodizer and we're going to pay to have them done in gold. And if they just sit in a drawer, it's, it's kind of a bad thing. So it's kind of why we've, we've in the past have delayed, uh, offering colors because we wanted to see if, if people were still interested in it after,

Brad Dowdy: Kickstarter.

Brad Dowdy: Well, yeah, I'm super. That's my favorite thing that you did on this project was offered up that up front because I always, you know, I, the render K, the orange render K I have as my single favorite Karis customs pen. And it's not, it's not close, honestly. And I think it's maybe because of the orange and I, plus I love the high tech C refill and that's the one I use the most. And, and that barrel, that barrel shape is actually kind of similar. It's a little bit narrower than, than the, than the ink, but, you know, also in this project, talk about how, you know, the different, instead of doing the different barrel options in, in, um, brass and copper, because that would probably get extremely heavy. They're heavy as it is in the, in the other pens in this larger size pen. I'm assuming it's because of, of the weight where you've just decided to offer different sections and different, uh, different materials. Yeah.

Dan Bishop: Uh, a lot, a lot of it's the weight in doing my research, uh, personally and reading and everything else, everybody talks about how light their pens are. It's almost like, uh, in the, in the cycling world, these guys, you know, they take the road bikes and they buy, you know, titanium and carbon fiber that they make, they call them weight weenies. Um, but I can understand that if you have a pen that you want to use every day, you want it to be comfortable to write with. And so, for example, our, uh, our bolt, a copper bolt, a lot of people don't like it because of its weight.

Dan Bishop: Other people really love it. So, um, we've had a couple of backers on Kickstarter ask if we can do these in copper and brass, and it's just not practical, uh, weight wise, I think. Um,

Myke Hurley: when you start getting into fountain pen territory, it changes quite significantly. Um, and I was concerned that you guys would maybe go for brass and copper with this project. I don't think it would work. Uh, no, the full body, it would, and I think you would maybe run the risk of somebody who, who is maybe new to fountain pens and would go for this. And that, that the weighting really matters in, in a fountain pen. And I don't know why, um, but I know it matters to me. And, and I, you know, talking to people that love this stuff, it seems to matter to everyone. Uh, yeah. And it's something about, I don't know, maybe with, just cause there's a difference in pressure that you have to apply to the nib and having a balance in the pen. And that's make or break a lot of the time for me. And I know Brad, that you're the same, right? A pen can look fantastic and it can write really well. But if that weights off, sometimes it would take you two, three weeks, maybe a couple of months of using it, but you'll stop using it if the weights are wrong. Yeah. And it will just sort of grind down on you over time.

Dan Bishop: Well, with fountain pens, I mean, with a ballpoint, you know, you kind of push, you have to physically move that ball to, to get it to work. Gels, not so much, but with a fountain pen, you're just kind of gliding that across the paper. And so if you have a really heavy pen, you're actually fighting gravity. So you're not putting a lot of pressure. Whereas with a, like a space pen refill, for example, you could let that pen and your hand put a lot of pressure down and it's not a problem. And somebody who's left-handed like yourself, if you've got a heavy fountain pen, it's going to want to dig as you're writing. It digs anyway. And so you're having to resist that weight. It's, it just, they would be beautiful. Don't get me wrong. I mean, can you imagine one of these pens and just solid copper? It would be, it would be gorgeous, but it, would you want to write with it? Maybe. But, uh, so we just kind of decided to get that, that, that flair to get that extra bit of, of material, that difference we would offer the grip sections. And it turned out awesome. I mean, if you look at the red, the photo of the red pen with the copper grip section, it just, it looks great.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Dan Bishop: That's all right.

Brad Dowdy: That's a great picture. Yeah. So what's, what's, go ahead. Yeah. I was just going to say that one of the questions I had, a couple of people asked me questions on Twitter, knowing that you were coming on, they wanted to know what's your favorite combination of color and grip section. Oh, um, let's see.

Dan Bishop: I, I like contrast. So, uh, the, the, the black with like a copper or, or any of them really, the black pen shows off the, the brass and the copper really well. Um, we have that picture of the black with the, the brass grip section and it just kind of pops. Um, but the, the colored, the regular anodized, I don't know. That's like saying, which one of your kids do you love more?

Dan Bishop: Um, the, the gray, I think we actually don't have a photo of the gray up right now. I'm, I need to add one, but, um, the gray with like a copper grip section just looks amazing. But I think any of the colors, like even the pink, I mean, I'm not like a huge pink guy, but when you see the pink with a stainless, polished, stainless clip, polished, stainless screws, an aluminum grip section in a, in a polished, stainless nib, that, that contrast just looks fantastic.

Gray Pen Choice

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I never looking at all these colors. I thought gray would have been about my fifth or sixth choice until I, you talked me into one. I was buying a render cave for a gift and I wanted black and you were out of it. And you said, you got to check out this gray one, you know, just trust me on this. Let me send you the gray one, check it out. And it is awesome looking color. It doesn't, the, the pictures don't even do it justice of how good looking that color is. Um, in, in person. So now that, that kind of leads to, to another question someone had, it might've been the same, uh, same person who asked it. Are you going to have the grip sections available for sale separately after Kickstarter?

Dan Bishop: Uh, we, I've been asked that a bunch today, uh, answering questions on Kickstarter, but, um, I think, I think so, uh, the, as you know, the logistics of this project, one of the reasons, um, we didn't do color in the past, or just right up front is because essentially every order becomes a custom order. Like I thought you were nuts for doing all these colorways. I'm like, well, you are out of your mind. I think I probably even told you not to do it. Um, and I just kind of said, you know what, uh, let's, let's do it. Cause, um, this is our first fountain pen. I was really happy with the design. Cause we, in the past, we, we'd anodize some samples of stuff. Like I have some, some retracts that are, are anodized on my desk. And, um, when, when you get it back and you see it and you just, I couldn't do that. I couldn't not offer the color. It's going to mean a whole bunch of work on the backend. Um,

Dan Bishop: uh, and if people are wondering what I'm talking about, it's say, say somebody orders in the past, they order a render K. Well, they just get a silver render K. Well, now if somebody orders an ink, like a roller ball combo, so they get one fountain pen and one roller ball. When we send the survey out, they're going to be able to pick a color for each one of those. So that means that, you know, Joe, Joe, Joe Smith, just decided he wants an orange fountain pen and, and a blue roller ball that essentially makes every single one of those orders, a custom order. I can't just box a thousand silver pens. And then everybody who ordered a single silver pen, I just print out a thousand labels and stick them on. It's going to mean every single person gets that much more attention, which is, which is fine. It's just, it's a little more work on our end. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Welcome to my world, but it's, it's cool. We, we couldn't have done it any other way. I don't think so. I'm, I'm pretty happy with how that turned out, but it is like a custom order for, for every person. But yeah, but I, I think it's cool to have those options there. And just, just so I give him credit, that was Brandon at UVA Wahoo one on the, he wanted to know what the best colors to compliment the, the, the sections in that anodized color. And Todd crane wanted to know about the selling the, the grip session section. So I appreciate those questions. Now let's, let's, let's bring this, this back around to, to the, to the launch of this project. And from,

Brad Dowdy: you know, it launched what yesterday, Monday afternoon. Yeah. Monday at noon, Monday at noon, Arizona time. Cause everything obviously is, is based around me. Um, that's right. So, so how, how, how do you, how do you think it's going so far? How'd the launch go for you? How do you think it's going where it's at right now? Just kind of give me, uh, your, your feelings, your warm fuzzies or your freak outs about, uh, how it's going so far.

Dan Bishop: Oh, it's going terrible. No, it's absolutely horrible. No. So, I was, I was an absolute wreck. Like I, if, if most people, if they don't know already, I'm, I'm pretty much like the Kickstarter guy at work. So if somebody writes a message or does whatever, I'm responding to them. So I, I try to make sure everything's in place, you know, everything's, you know, that I, I, I crossed my T's and dotted my I's and everything else. And so we get ready to launch. And our goal is, is higher than, than our other projects. I mean, $10,000 because of, of the, the way that we're going to make our clips is going to cost a little bit more. So we wanted a baseline because we, we really had no idea. This is new territory for me. I, I, you know, I wanted this to do well because our other pens have done well. So, um, it was at our highest goal and we had everything set and I hit launch at noon. And for like two or three minutes, it was just crickets.

Dan Bishop: And so I'm, I'm, I'm in, I have an internal dialogue going and I'm, and I'm thinking, okay, it's, it's probably just Kickstarter, you know, getting it up on the server. And so I, I post a link to, to Facebook and I do some updates on our previous projects to let them know. And I sent a link to, um, all of you that got prototype pens and then suddenly the pledges start rolling in and I went, okay, okay, this is, this is going pretty good and I feel better about this. And like within basically the first hour we met our $10,000 goal. And I just kind of sat there dumbfounded because, our fastest growing project to date had been the retract.

Dan Bishop: And we, you know, in the first 12 hours or so what we had done, you know, pretty well, I think we did like around $18,000 in the first 12 hours, but we ended up doing that much in like two and a half. Wow. Wow. And I, I, it's still, obviously, you know, it's very rare that I'm speechless, but, uh, it's amazing. The people who have been behind us on this project, um, I got to give a, a mention to our friend, uh, Ivan over at ink Tronics. Yes. He, he, he came by the shop. He was in town for, for work. And he posted a picture on Instagram saying, Hey, I'm in Arizona or in Phoenix or whatever. And I said, Hey, you have to come by the shop. So we, we hung out and he tried the pen. And so he, he was my, was my official leak, um, on the fountain pen network.

Dan Bishop: I sent him a few photos and he kind of didn't say where he got them or anything else. He, uh, he posted them. And I had been, it was the first time we've leaked anything. Like I started on my Instagram feed, uh, uh, for the month of October that people do this thing called inktober, where they post a drawing a day drawn with ink. And I, I had a few drawings I did with, with my prototype and I would just screw the lid on and I'd set it to the side. When I took the picture and people go, what is that? What does that mean? And I, and I, what are you talking about? So we, we, we just slowly leaked all these, these, these images. And I think I posted a photo where I, where the section in the, in the did was actually covered by the lid. So people wouldn't know what it was.

Dan Bishop: And I think that was the most fun part. Is, um,

Dan Bishop: like building people up to the eventual launch of the, of the project. Um, and it, uh, I don't know if that's, that's the case or if just, or fountain pens are just that much more popular than other pens are. But this response that we've, that we've had is just unreal. I mean, I checked the, the total right before we got on the show and we were at about, uh, was it 42,000? You go, let me see. Um,

Myke Hurley: 41, eight, six, seven right now.

Dan Bishop: Yeah. And, um, of course we have, uh, an awesome video. Oh my gosh. Yeah. We hadn't even talked about that. Um, but yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's, it feels good. I mean, when last, when you guys talked about it, when you posted the, uh, that the photo of the, of the orange.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I was mad at you for keeping, posting that picture out. Why? Why were you mad? Cause I couldn't have it yet. No.

Dan Bishop: Um, yeah, I don't know. That's kind of the point is to make everybody jealous, but, um, no, um, that photo is awesome. That was taken by our, our in-house photographer, uh, Tommy Coppinger. Um, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's been nerve wracking, but at the same time, it's been fun teasing everybody. Um, well, because we've never done it before. We, we never like leaked stuff or had anything for people to see, to build this anticipation. Because when we did the render K, we were just some machine shop. Like nobody, nobody knew who we were. We made some iPhone cases and had some success there, but pens, like we weren't even on the radar. I mean, uh, now some people know who we are, but it's, it's fun to kind of gain that reputation and to, see people excited about your work.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Well, I, I think they're pretty excited about this one. The way, the way it's looking so far, it's, um, I'm, I'm excited about it. I'm, I'm excited to, uh, add more of these, uh, to, to, to, to my arsenal. I know I, Myke, Myke went for the full package. I just went for, uh, for one for right now. But, um, these are, I, yeah, this is going to take too long to get into my hands. I know that even though I have the, the prototype, I, I gotta have that, gotta have that orange one. And, um, and, uh, just, just get that, get that in hand. And, and, you know, I, I think that's going to be a, a pen I carry with me all the time. That's, that's actually one of the, the best things I like about this pen. A lot of fountain pens, you kind of need to be a little bit careful. You know, I don't get too crazy, um, you know, worrying about overly protecting them, but this, this one looks great. Just like, you know, clipped to my jeans pocket or something like that. Like I mentioned in my post this morning, I mean, this is just going to be like a super portable clip it in your backpack and go, you know, type of pen. And that's, you know, that's, uh, I think one of the huge selling points for me for this pen.

Pen Durability

Dan Bishop: Yeah. That's kind of, if, if we do have one reputation, you know, one thing for our reputation is that we make pens that are durable, you know, you could throw them around, you can toss them around, you know, you could, in theory, if you wanted to, you could take this pen and whip it across the parking lot, you know, whip it across the street, go pick it up. It probably has some scratches and dings on it, but you could take the lid off and write with it.

Brad Dowdy: Right.

Dan Bishop: Um, and I mean, that's the one thing is once again, when I was doing my research, I was looking at that titanium Nakaya. And so I was doing searches, you know, keyword Nakaya. and I've came across the post on the fountain pen network where somebody had one, uh, a clipless and the lid rolled off their desk, hit the floor and shattered.

Brad Dowdy: Oh no. Oh no.

Dan Bishop: And you just, you just want to cry when you hear these kinds of stories because you, you, you know what that pen means to that person. You know what that pen costs that person as well. And personally, I don't want to have to worry about it, but I also like the look of objects that are worn in. And so I'm looking forward to having an anodized version of this pen and have it, you know, in a pocket. And then it starts to wear through on the corners. Like I want to see people posting pictures on Instagram of this pen, just worn out on the outside. Yeah. And to me, that's the appeal of it because it's something that you can use, but, and even possibly abuse to a certain point, but it's going to stay beautiful. It's just going to get more character, like a good, like a leather wallet or something. It's just going to look better with age.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. I, yep. I think that's exactly right. And I can't wait to get my, my hands on it. And I know a lot of people are, are anxious for it. And, uh, I, I think, uh, I think we'll wrap it up on this note. Um, at Tony gun trip on Twitter, when I was asking for questions, he didn't have a question, but he posted to, to me and to Kara's customs. And I, Myke said also back to ink, damn you, damn your enabling podcast.

Brad Dowdy: And I think, I think that sums it up. Well, all the, uh, the information, uh, the, the feedback we get, uh, on this. So, um, thanks for being on Dan. I, I really appreciate you taking the time. I know you're, this is like right in the, the, the peak of the, uh, of the launch for this. So thanks for taking some time to, uh, to chat with us. And Myke, do you have any other questions you wanted to, to get in there?

Myke Hurley: Not a question. I said, I'm going to get an orange one. Um, and I haven't decided, I probably will get an orange fountain pen. I've not decided my color for the roller boy. Yeah. I'm going to get the aluminum, uh, barrels of both. I think, uh, like the, the grip. Cause that's my, my personal favorite. Um, yep.

Dan Bishop: Why don't you get a green one?

Myke Hurley: I was thinking about green actually. So that, that will probably be what I go with. It's an interesting color green. Um, I like it. So I will probably end up going with orange and green because they tend to be the colors we choose. Well,

Dan Bishop: here's, here's something that people haven't thought about, but if you order the combo, you can switch the lids and the caps.

Myke Hurley: Okay. Done.

Myke Hurley: That would be awesome. Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm doing, I'm going to do that. Cool. So thanks buddy. Yeah. You've just settled it for me. They will look, Oh, that will look great. You should put some pictures on the page. No, no.

Two-Tone Pens

Dan Bishop: I, I was talking about it today because people will start asking for it. For two tone pens.

Myke Hurley: I was just about to say, cause people will say, can I have it? No, don't do that. Maybe put on Instagram or something.

Dan Bishop: You know, um, my head would explode if we had two tone pens in addition to all this. Yeah.

Dan Bishop: Chicken. Yeah, I am. I'm a huge, huge chicken. I don't want to lay that egg. Um, but I wanted to thank,

Myke Hurley: look, congratulations for, yeah, for getting this point this far as well. It's incredible.

Dan Bishop: I just wanted to say thank you once again, to you guys, to everybody who's, who's helped, you know, like I said, all the, all the people, uh, in the pen community, Anna, Aziza, Ed, um, Ivan, Myke Dudek for, you know, putting up with my, my shenanigans and all looking at all his pens and everything else. But it's, it, it feels good. This feels like a community project to me. This feels like Kickstarter should be. It's, I, it's like a crowdsourced design, but, but, and it's been embraced by the, the crowdsource funding community. So I, I'm very happy and thank you to everybody.

Brad Dowdy: Awesome. Well, we're very happy for you and we're, uh, glad to do any little bit we can for, um, you know, great products and, uh, great people. So, um, we definitely appreciate your time and, uh, we look forward to, I know I'm looking forward with, uh, high anxiety to get this, uh, to get this pen. So let's see these 30 days pass and get these babies made. Yes. Rock and roll. All right. Well, Dan, where can, uh, where can everyone get in touch with you if they want to ask you more about ink or anything's Karis customs?

Dan Bishop: Well, they can, they can email me, uh, Dan at Karis customs. Um, I, my, I'm also on Instagram myself. Um, it's, uh, design underscore concussion on Instagram, um, and a blog of the same name, but, uh, get pretty much. I'm, I'm all over the place. If, if there's a kid on the Kickstarter project or wherever, if they have a personal question for me, just address it to me personally and I'll get it. So.

Brad Dowdy: Awesome. Awesome. And you can find me on, on Twitter at Dowdy ism D O W D Y I S M on app.net at Dowdy and blogging away at pen addict.com.

Myke Hurley: Awesome. And I'm I Myke. I M Y K E. Um, on Twitter, if you want to find the show notes for this week's episode, uh, go to five by five. TV slash pen addict slash 85. And, uh, we will be back next week for another episode of the show. Uh, we will obviously be on one. I say, obviously we're going to, we honest, we're on a slightly different schedule next week. We're recording Monday, recording Monday next week. So, but there will be, uh, a holiday edition. I say that probably won't be anything holiday about it, but not that I can think of. Well, we already have a couple of things to talk about. So awesome. That, that'll be fun. So thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next week. Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Brad. Until next time. Say goodbye, gents. Goodbye, gents. Bye.