The Pen Addict 538/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	538
Title:	Lukewarm Takes
Release Date:	November 9th, 2022
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 538
Audio File:	Audio Episode 538
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 538
Length:	5555 min <br />0.917 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 538. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace and Trade. My name is Myke Hurley. I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Hello, Myke Hurley. How are you today? Ooh, I regret asking that already.

Myke Hurley: We started late today. I'm having some utilities issues in my new home. I was on hold for an hour and got no satisfaction.

Brad Dowdy: No satisfaction. Well, you're here now. That's all that matters. We are going to talk about pens. You're going to wind down over the next hour, get into your moment of zen about pens. You ready for this? Please, my pen zen.

15th Anniversary of The Pen Addict Blog

Brad Dowdy: All right, pen zen. Did you know, Myke, The Pen Addict blog turns 15 in like 20 days from now?

Myke Hurley: I do know that because I read your newsletter, but when I read it in your newsletter, I was surprised. I can't believe it's for 15 years.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, the official day is November 29th, but you know, kind of like fountain pen day. It's like fountain pen day every day when you have like an anniversary coming up, like a big anniversary. It's just like an anniversary month. So it's just like we're just going to do like the whole month. It's like the blog's turning 15. I really don't do the celebration thing that well, except Myke, I made a pen this time. So we've talked about it before. I've been working with Benu Pen for many, many months now on creating a custom, you know, custom color for the Pen Addict shop and kind of a celebratory vibe for 15 years of the Pen Addict blog. That is up on the shop now. What do you think about this pen, Myke? I know it's not your style. Not everyone is a Benu Pen style person. I think I wrote it well in refill this past weekend. They don't make pens for everyone, but they make pens for someone, right? So I think that's a pretty good way to put what Benu does. They're weird. They're wild. They're colorful. They're fun. They're also not for everyone, but I think they just absolutely crushed this pen. What do you think?

Collaboration with Benu Pens

Myke Hurley: I typically don't enjoy Benu pens. I do think what you all have worked together on is really very beautiful, actually. I think it's the material and the shape. I think it's a very good looking pen.

Brad Dowdy: I purposefully chose not to go full Benu, right? It was pretty clear I did not go full Benu, which if you think this pen is wild, this is like on the scale of two to 10 from one being like a basic black pen to like a 10 being like the full Benu experience. This is like a three of the Benu collection. So I love it. I've been using it. It's like this deep, deep dark purple. It's got some orange and red and like light green glitter in it and it's spectacular. And they did these great images for the pen. They threw a party for the pen, but put the little 15 anniversary and a little cupcake in there. I was very excited. So I'm excited how this turned out.

Myke Hurley: Well, I know that you worked with them. What made you go with these color choices? I mean, it isn't necessarily what I would have expected.

Brad Dowdy: Sure. So I kind of didn't want to do orange, right? Just because I always do it. But so like my next probably favorite color of pens or inks or things like that is dark purple, right? Like the, the deeper purple. So I was like, well, I knew I've seen a lot of Benu materials and I knew they could do that kind of base color. Well, like the deep, dark purple. And you know, it's got like different like shades and, and you know, it's a little, some of it's a little bit lighter. Some of it leans like very, very black. So I knew they could do that base. So I thought that would be easy to do something different outside of orange and then have a little bit of, you know, orange color in, in the sparkle. So it's just really just wanting to do something different. You know, I don't want to do orange all the time. You know, I like other colors as well. And so do other people. And, you know, I've got an orange pen in, in the shop right now too. And that's the, the Opus 88 halo, you know, it's back in stock now. So yeah, we don't need to do all orange all the time. Even though that kind of goes against, it goes against my existence. I like other colors too. And you know, I, again, like I do the things that I want for myself first. Right. So I wanted something a little bit different and that's what we did. And I think it came out great.

Myke Hurley: It looks super good.

Brad Dowdy: The hardest part, the hardest part was choosing an ink to put in there because Robert Oster fire on fire is like perfectly complimentary to this. Right. But I already have that inked up in, in, uh, my Montegrappa pen. Um, so I didn't want to go back on the orange. So I did like a, a dark magenta with a green sheen, uh, the, the diamine marine. Um, I don't know if you remember those from a few years ago, their iridescent, uh, series of inks they did with diamine. They're so very pretty. So kind of a reddish purple and green kind of an odd ink to go with an odd pen. And, uh, yeah, I'm super, super happy with it. So those are up on the site. Now I'm gonna start shipping them out tomorrow. Uh, we'll do 300 pens in total and that's it. They're not numbered or anything, but it's not just not going to be a recurring thing. It's kind of just like a one-off, but like there's a ton, like there'll be available for a while. So if you're interested, check them out. I would love for you to check it out. So it's very cool.

Myke Hurley: But you're a busy boy over there. It's not what you've got going on.

Restocking and Popularity of Opus 88 Halos

Brad Dowdy: It's crazy busy. So like I mentioned the Opus 88 halos back in stock, that one, we crushed that one. Uh, the first time it came out. That's the thing about these pens is like, they're really good value. Um, the Opus 88, especially, um, especially also if you're a pen addict member, um, there's some added discounts for that. So I'm, I'm just going a full capitalism here, uh, Myke, right out the, right out the jump. Um, so yeah, like that's a great pen. Um, I have a Montegrappa, uh, more high-end pen that will be restocked next week. So that's going. And then on top of that, Myke, the shipping department is about to blow up with, oh, I don't know, several hundred new inventory pencils from spoke. So Brian and I have been working on the spoke model for update. So the model fours are our top selling pencil by far. Like it's the pencil that I like, I think most people, if they're new to spoke, that's the product that they know spoke from, um, back in the day. Um, that's the one that got me in touch with Brian. And that's the one where I said, Hey, this is different and unique and I love it. And to this day, it's, it's certainly been the best selling pencil that we've had. And we've obviously branched out into other things, which we'll talk about in a minute, but the model four needed a couple of tweaks. Um, Brian started designing some grips for the previous model that he was custom building, right? Custom assembling, I should say. So, you know, sandblasted grips, titanium grips. And this time, oh, and previously there was an inverted grip, which I thought was super strange, but really, really worked for me. This time we've done a few different things. We've made a wider grip, like a grip that's greater. It's, I think it's greater than 10 millimeters and it's also made out of titanium. So we have a wide grip model four. We have a flared grip model four. Like it's a little bit more subtle than the inverted grip to where it's kind of a straight grip. And then it has kind of a flare out at the end, kind of like you would see a fountain pen section that's concave in the middle, then flared at the end. It's not really, this grip isn't concave in the middle, but there's a flare at the end to help you hold the pencil. Well, and then the one that I've been using the most is we did a knurled grip, but it's not any knurled grip. It's a knurled titanium grip, which not a lot of companies do. Most of the knurling is on aluminum or maybe even steel grips. So we have a titanium knurled grip, which is really, really nice. I've been using it. I think it's going to do super well. So we'll have a lot of barrel colors, a lot of core sizes for the graphite, you know, 0.5, 0.7, 0.9 millimeter, you know, we'll have your standard gray barrels and blue barrels, but we'll have our cyans and our limes and our purples and all that probably by the time you're listening to this, you'll be able to go to spoke design.com and all of our new inventory will be up. And then we have some new roadies in there as well. So, and some new silver based roadies, silver color based barrel road roadies with color caps. And yeah, we're just rolling. We'll be doing, hopefully getting some new pen stuff in before the end of the year as well. It's been, a huge, huge delay throughout 2022 for us getting products. Like all of this stuff is like literally months behind, like six months behind probably. And just like, you know, my pen addict stuff, everything's happening all at once and it's a lot, but like, it's good stuff. So we're, we're happy to do it. We're finally excited to get some inventory back. And that's just the way the manufacturing works, Myke, you know, you know, the catchphrase.

Myke Hurley: I don't just know the catchphrase. I know the, the feeling. You're living it. I'm living it. I did want to mention actually, so what I'm very excited to see more about those, the, the super cool, uh, the new spoke stuff. Um, the model four is, you know, it also was what brought me into the spoke fold, right? Of like, Oh, this is cool. Like I remember us talking about it way back when, uh, but yeah, what I, I wanted to come back around for a moment because I realized I didn't make enough point of it. Uh, do you think much about 15 years at the pen addict? Do you have much of a feeling?

Brad Dowdy: Oh, not really. Like if I think about it too hard, I'm like, dang, it's 2000. What's weirder to say isn't 15 years is that it started in 2007. That seems like a long time ago. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, yeah, it's, it makes me smile. I will say that like, I'm super happy like that. It's become a thing. And then, you know, by the time January 1st rolls around, that'll be seven full years that I left my job, right. To be able to do this, like the big picture, this, you know, Hey, we're talking about a podcast about pens. Hey, I'm getting to make cool stuff with cool people. And Hey, I'm able to make a living off of all of these things. Um, when I think I, I tend not to let myself think about it too hard because I'm super fortunate in what I do. And I don't want to get blinded by that fact. Like I'm, I literally spent most of this morning, like brainstorming what type of content I want to create in 2023. That's where my mind's at right now. Not celebrating, uh, 15 years, which is definitely worth celebrating. And I'm not selling that short at all, but like, I'm literally thinking about, okay, like we have to keep going here, right? Like I don't, I don't want to rest on my laurels. I don't want to like pat myself on the back. I want to, um, keep having fun and, uh, keep spreading the pin word. So like, I, I just, I love what I do. I'm very fortunate. Um, I'm thankful for you, for all the listeners, for all the supporters. Um, so yeah, so maybe we'll, maybe, you know, maybe now next month or so, we'll, we'll do like a real, like 15th anniversary recap or have some more thoughts on it. But that's my, my general thoughts is like, I don't overly think about it because I'm kind of always moving forward. Right. Like I'm already, like my brain is already into next year. Like, let's go, let's do these things. Let's, let's plan on all this awesomeness and let's keep having fun. Like that's,

Myke Hurley: that's what drives me. It is wild to me. You have now reached the celebrate every five years, part of an anniversary, right? That is true. They, uh, when you think about it that way,

Brad Dowdy: there is a point where, you know, you know, we're not having like the six month anniversary and the, well, you know, I feel like up to 10 anniversary of our first date. Yeah. Yeah. But I feel like up

Myke Hurley: to 10 years, you can be a bit like, oh, it's the sixth year of the blog. It's the seventh. Once you past 10, now it's like, all right, 15, 20, 25, 30, like that's you now. You're in that kind of room,

Brad Dowdy: which is wild. Yep. Yep. And, uh, and we're, we're going to keep hitting those marks. We're

Myke Hurley: not stopping anytime soon. That's the plan. No, no one's down in that. I can tell you that part.

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Brad Dowdy: Yeah, it's fantastic in getting to read those stories and having your preferences show up at your door and you know it's going to be the perfect flavor, the perfect roast, the perfect tasting notes for your coffee. And let me tell you, there wouldn't be 15 years of the pen addict without coffee. I am definitely the cliche fueled by coffee, Myke. And I appreciate Trade is currently fueling me very, very well. They're keeping me on full every day.

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Brad Dowdy: All right, Myke, I want to kick off a fun segment here. And this is based around the idea that everyone knows. Anyone who's active on the internet, which if you're listening to the show, you're probably internet engaged. You know all about the hot takes, right? Hot takes are what drive drive the engagements and drive the algorithms. You know, everyone wants to know the hot take, the hot take news. Yeah. Especially like in the political climate we live in and all that stuff.

Myke Hurley: I was just thinking about Twitter in general right now, but yeah, sure.

Twitter and Stationery Hot Takes

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Twitter in general. Yeah. Everything's a hot take. Everything's a hot take. And that doesn't really work in the stationary world. We're all too nice. Like I've never, you know, created content around hot takes. You know, we don't, we don't follow the algorithm here at the penaddict. Not on the blog. I've never done anything that's for the clicks or for the algo or anything like that. So when we were talking about this on Twitch is how this topic came up. It's like, well, are there hot takes in stationary? Can you have a hot take? You know, what are your hot takes? You know, is there a product you love that everyone hates or the product you hate that everyone loves, vice versa? And basically I decided that as we were going through all these hot takes is they're more lukewarm takes, right? Like this is, this is a, this is a bunch of lukewarm takes here in the stationary world. We're not really going for like the pure hot, pure hot takes. You know, we're not taking anyone down, right? We're not making the clickbaity titles. There's only so much, uh, so much hotness you can, you can deal with when you're dealing with pens and paper and ink and pencils and all, all of that stuff. We're just, we're just too nice, Myke. We're just too nice. So I want to talk about this collection of lukewarm takes. That's, that's the phrase I'm going to use. So, um, these lukewarm takes, I want to, I want to go through some of these today. So I have a list that, uh, a bunch of people in, in Twitch chat, we, we created, I wrote a bunch of these down. So I've taken a sampling of these. Um, and these takes like the hard thing about these are like, especially in the stationary world, this stuff's like super personal, right? We're talking about preferences really, right? No, we're going to burn people down today. No preferences. It's like, I like it. Myke's going the hot route. I'm, I'm trying to stay in the lukewarm channel here. So, uh, we got a little hot and cold in this bathroom here, Myke. That's where I am. Yes. Big, big, uh, popular word. Uh, that is a hot take word, Myke. So you should, uh, continue to do that. So maybe you'll come up with a hot take, um, as, as we go through this, but I'm going to kick it off with one of mine. And so I'll tell you, I put a few of mine in here, but mostly we'll talk about, uh, some other ones that other people have and we'll, we'll decide if they're, you know, a hot take or a lukewarm take or, or not a take at all. But, um, I'm going to, I'm going to kick things off with probably my, uh, my hottest of lukewarm takes. And that is that eyedropper fill fountain pens are the worst filling system. And what I mean is, and I'm not counting Japanese traditional eyedroppers. I think that's a different system. I'm talking about the, the fill the barrel full of ink with silicone gel or O-rings or that type of filling system where you're just pouring ink into the barrel and sealing it off either with grease or with O-rings. I think that's the worst filling system. And I know people love that filling system and I understand why, right? It's a high capacity filling system. I never need that much ink in a pen because I use too many pens, right? Again, these are personal things and they tend to make a mess half the time. Like I've had some eyedroppers, like I will continue to fill eyedropper fill pens every now and then. Like I don't mind doing it. It's like, eh, this is cool. Let me try it. After about once I'm right into the converter or even a cartridge. Sometimes I'm just avoiding eyedroppers just for waste. Like I'm not, I'm using too much ink. I'm filling it with too much ink and not using the ink. You know, that's a personal thing. You know, that's a flaw in my own system, but I'm also having to deal with, you know, the, the, the pen burping and making mess in the cap or splashing around or just, you know, getting too inky on the page, not mitigating the flow as well in there. So that is probably my hottest take. So most of my takes are lukewarm. Like I really don't have hot takes because you know, it's, it's pens. We all like what we like. So what do you think about that?

Myke Hurley: I think you're completely right with the, with the, the eyedropper system. It's too messy, damages pens, like the bodies of pens sometimes. Like I have pens that are stained from doing this. Sure. Sure. And really I don't, I think the benefit that, that people talk about is so slim of like, you can put more ink in the pens. Like, yeah, but like how much more really is it that goes, you know what? I don't think it's that much more. Right. So yeah. Yeah. I'm with you.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Get me, you know, if I'm, I mean, and it's, it's, it's simple, right? It's generally simple to make, right? There's no additional mechanisms, you know, it's a little bit cheaper, but then the, the, the burdens on the user to do it correctly, to not make a mess. And I would just generally tend to avoid that type of thing.

Myke Hurley: And it's also like, um, you need all this weird extra equipment. Like, are you going to get like a syringe? Not too much, but you have the silicone. And then you get, yeah, but you got to do the silicone thing. Like how much silicone is too much silicone? How often do you have to replace the silicone? It's just like, it's aggravation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did I get it on all the threads?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Do I need to do it on the, the, the, just the, just the grip section? Do I need to get it on the nib threads, on the housing? So yeah, you got to tap in two different areas.

Myke Hurley: Now your pen is always greasy a little bit forever because you put too much on when you,

Brad Dowdy: yeah. Yep. You feel it on your fingers when it comes through the threads. Yeah. So, yeah. So eyedroppers, I love the idea of them. I tend not to use them, uh, just for all the, they're, they're extra and I don't find the need for the extra that I don't, I don't get those benefits. So, all right. That was one of mine. Uh, one we got from Twitch chat. I will not name names mostly because I didn't write down names on this. Um, I do know who said this though. And I feel really seen when they did say this, we should use the inks we have instead of buying new ones.

Myke Hurley: How's that for a hot take? Uh, I mean, my issue with that take is that you can't got just constrain it to inks. Like that can't be the only thing you believe. Like if you're going to go for that take, you've also got to apply it to pens and notebook that you, and if you want to apply it to that, go for it. But I feel like you can't just selectively apply that to one element.

Brad Dowdy: I think that's, I think that's, I think that's fair. I just felt like pretty seen by that. Like I think ink is one of those things, no purchase is ever accidental, but when we're like, say we're buying like a $200 pen, you know, we tend to like passively say, well, let me just add this $20 ink there. You know, I just spent $200 on a pen. I deserve this $20 ink. And it's like, well, that's $20 worth of ink. And you already have, you know, in a lot of a large number of other $20 inks, you know, that are sitting there unused, but you know, we all, we're always tempted. I'm raising my hand completely. I'm super guilty of this. Um, even when I do my little magic trick, I do for myself, Myke, where I say, oh, this is a review product, not a personal product, right? That's the one magic trick that I use on myself. I still end up with too many inks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I play that card frequently and, uh, inks is the one that gets me in trouble there because they just end up stacking up, stacking up. So related to that, I have another one of mine. Um, and it, this is, this is more lukewarm than the eyedropper one, but my lukewarm take is that nobody needs a super sheening ink. I think that's the worst feature, uh, worst, like, you know, marketing feature of any ink. They tend to be overly messy. I guess there's a theme here. I like, I like clean, I like clean pens and clean paper and clean ink. I'm clearly not a left-handed Myke. My apologies, left-hander. I'm a, my apologies for that, but super sheening inks are more drama than they're worth. The, the pictures you see on the internet look amazing, right? That's, that's what tempts us into going, look what this ink does. And then you get it in your pen and it gunks it up and it gets all over the nib and the feed. And then you start writing with it on paper and it never dries and it sticks to the other page when you close the notebook and it gets all over your hands. And I say, this is someone who has a, a pretty sheening ink right now that I mentioned earlier, the diamond Marine, like that's my limit, right? It at least dries respectively. It's, it's not gross in the nib, but some of these super sheening inks that are so popular, I just think are terrible. Like I really don't like super sheening inks and I like sheen as a ink feature. I like shading first and then I like sheen around the edge of the lines, right? I don't want a hundred percent sheen coverage on the top of the line that I just wrote, right? So super sheening inks almost are to the level of creeping me out. And I just don't think anybody needs that. You can get some, some moderately sheening inks, right? And those that behaves so much better. Like I don't think super sheen should be a thing. So that's, that's my

Myke Hurley: I'm not even sure. I know what super sheen is, to be honest.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I don't think you really have any, but it's basically like if you'll, you've seen a thousand pictures of these where, and the most popular one is blue where you'll get like a blue base ink color, but when it dries, it's red on the top, right? It's just like the chemical reaction and the air. So it'll have almost like a color changing aspect to it, but on the surface of the base ink, right? It's, it sits on top of the base ink. So you'll see like when you turn the page, like the ankle turn from like blue to red is the most common example. And some of them are just a hundred percent coverage. It's like I'm writing a blue line. And by the time it dries, it's red. And, um, and a lot of times like it looks cool for a minute until you have it all over your hands and all of your notebook, because it, a lot of them don't dry very well. So you can find some pictures of them, uh, online. I'm not going to call out any, any names specifically, but there are some famous super sheening inks. They're very, very popular, um, because they photograph extraordinarily well and they look awesome. I just think the, the actual like day to day use of them is horrible. Like it would drive me bonkers. Like I just don't like it. So next one, Myke, this might, this might, but I think we're going, you know, like in the hot, in the hot water, we're like turning, turning up the heat a little bit on this one. This one might get a little bit, uh, more than lukewarm, uh, because it hits home a little bit. And this is a two parter from two different people. Machine pins always look unfinished and are always too thick at the grip. So that was, that was one from chat and let me, uh, add in the second part. So this is a two part. This from a different person's hot take, Myke, machine pins are pointless. Why on earth do you need an expensive holder for a perfectly good refill? I take this a little personal. Do you want to go first as I, uh, as I, as I quell, quell my, as, as I bring my temperature back down to lukewarm?

Definition and Popularity of Machined Pens

Myke Hurley: Yeah. The definition of machined pens is so broad, right? Like, on, like, isn't every pen made of a machine? Like, what are they referring to? Do you think? Probably, you know, the metal barrel pens,

Brad Dowdy: you know, take like spoke for design. It spokes, a machine pen, uh, tactile turn, Keras customs, you know, all of our popular like machine makers, but like, I get what you're saying.

Myke Hurley: Any of that, to be honest, like just, they, they, they, they're bad. This is where the,

Brad Dowdy: the hot take goes into the personal realm. Like these are tastes, right? This is a personal taste, a preference, right? This is a preference, I believe not a hot take, which I'm down with that. Like, if you don't like them, that's totally cool. Um, and you know, if they look unfinished to you, yeah, I, I get that. Like, I've seen some machine pens that just like look like steel and unfinished and like, that's not your style. You know, um, there's a lot, there's tons of brands out there that, that do this. Um, the machine pens are pointless. I is, is more of a weird one to me because that's that I do see the fact that is, that's a very stationary nerd thing. Like if I'm a pilot G2 fan and I'm not just a regular user, I'm actually like an active writer. I'm looking for something better, but like, I like the G2 and I like the 0.5 millimeter G2. And I just don't like how that barrel is. Well, could I find something better? And I think that's kind of like a, like the, the next step into like the path of like full on stationary addiction, like we have. And in that case, like I get why people buy machine pens. Obviously I'm coming from a huge place of bias here as I've been before I was even involved in spoke pen. I've long been, you know, the Kickstarter machine pen guy, right? That's a decade long thing for me. So I obviously have completely different thoughts on this, but like I get the style hot take more than the, why do they exist? Hot take. Like I do like having, Hey, let me get an upgrade for my cool, cool, uh, ink refill that I like so much and have something more fun. If I'm going to use this pen very, very regularly, let me, uh, let me upgrade how it appears a little bit. So, uh, you know, I do find that interesting. So next one, Myke, I I'm interested on your, your, uh, take on this. So this is also from Twitch. Most makie looks like a child got hold of some finger paints, good at a distance, but never close up hot take go.

Myke Hurley: Somebody put that child into art college. Cause they're clearly very talented. Whoever this person's child that is that they've seen, uh, that's creating this, this, this kind of artwork, they've got some skills. Cause I'll tell you right now that has been on us. That's the thing.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, yeah, I'm trying to think, I mean, there there's levels, right? There's tiers, but even like, if you're looking at a very simple, um, pen with makie art that, you know, is not like overly embellished or very simple, I think it looks pretty great still. Like even like the most simple stuff, and we're not even talking about the expensive stuff, which certainly does not look like a finger paint issue, but, uh, even like the, the low end stuff, like it's a fine, delicate artwork. Like I, I appreciate even the simplest attempt at doing this, but, uh, yeah, I get it. That's a preference. That's a preference there. And maybe a little bit of a hot take, you know, maybe a little lukewarm. I don't know, but, uh, that's, that's definitely a thing. I like how this is going, Myke. We got, we got some more to cover. We have some more that I think are going to cause some, uh, consternation here, but, uh, let's take a break real quick. And we're going to get into a couple of these other ones. Some are very simple and some, I think we're going to have a long

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Brad Dowdy: support of the pen addict and relay FM. We're going to get back into it with this three word hot take. Rodia is Rodia is overrated.

Brad Dowdy: Any thoughts?

Myke Hurley: I don't know if I disagree.

Brad Dowdy: I am in the same boat. When someone said that in chat, I was like, you know what? I think I might agree with this statement. And that is not a knock on Rodia. That is a long term evolution in testing out, trying, discovering new papers. Rodia has become available now, right? Rodia used to not be available in the broad sense, you know, a decade ago. You know, it was unique at the time. It's still unique. Like it's a what we call like a coated paper, right? It works well for fountain pens. Once you start discovering fountain pens, it handles fountain pens beautifully. I think it's so here's Rodia is not necessarily overrated, but in a weird way, it's become utilitarian in our world, right? It's the ubiquitous paper now. And so maybe just like my personal tastes have changed, where I actually don't actively use Rodia. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's overrated. But like I found things that I prefer, you know, Midori, Life, Moromon, all of these things. And I tend to recommend them more than Rodia. But I still recommend Rodia a lot for beginners and people who are trying to discover what they like. And hey, what how can paper make a difference in your writing experience? And Rodia is always a great thing for that. So I guess I won't say it's overrated. But I don't disagree with the statement as much as I thought. One of the hangups I've always had with Rodia is their pads. Since Rodia pads are top tier, their bound hardcover notebooks are not close to the pads, right? There's this real disconnect in those two products I've seen in my experience and other people's experiences. So if their hardbound products were, you know, could match the pads, I think the pads are the way to go in the hardbound stuff. I'm looking elsewhere. So. All right, Myke.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I just said to the last thing on the Rodia thing, I think it's like a carryover from when we didn't know so much, you know, like where we didn't have as much access to new products, or we just didn't, hadn't yet tried a bunch of stuff. And so the idea that like, you know, at that time, Rodia was like a really fun and high quality experience. And then we've maybe like carried that thinking on all this time, even though we found things that are much better,

Brad Dowdy: but maybe more niche. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't want to use Rodia all day, every day as like my one and only pad. Like now that I use a lot of different pens and papers and Rodia would not be the answer to that particular question. So I think it is still the answer to some questions though. So interesting. All right, here's the two parter. So this, these are two different comments, but they both tie into the same idea. So let me read them both to you. So this is the first one. Too much about pens is focused on making them more expensive instead of good writers. Okay. So that was one hot take. The second separate hot take from a different, different person in Twitch, you can have a better experience with a $30 pen than a $300 pen. So let's take the first one first. Too much about pens is focused on making them more expensive instead of good writers.

Brad Dowdy: This is like a thesis paper discussion, right? Because they're almost unrelated topics, right? There's, there's two parts of this statement that are generally unrelated, except by the end product, they're completely related, right? You're using the pen as a complete object. What makes it expensive doesn't always translate to making it a good writer because those two things are oftentimes not related, right? Where does the cost come from? Okay. In the nib material, right? Is it steel or is it gold? Let's just keep it that simple right now. So that's a flat cost difference, right? So steel nib is let's just for a quick math, let's say a steel nib is $25 and a gold nib is $150, right? Those are just, let's just call them facts, even though that's, that's being a little bit strong with the word. Let's just say that's what it is. Everything else is unrelated to the cost of the nib in what makes the pen expensive, you know, what type of material they're using. Like, I'm not saying anything, anyone doesn't know this already, you know, what is the material? What is the filling system? You know, what type of extra artwork do we go back to the or is it just a basic acrylic or is it just, you know, very inexpensive, inexpensive, you know, molded plastic, you know? I think in breaking down this question, the focus is, God, it's really hard to explain. The focus when you're making a pen is on the overall and writing experiences is only a part of it. And that's kind of backwards to say out loud, right? That doesn't make sense when you say it out loud. But let's take Lamy, for example. If I'm Lamy, like I'm making like a safari that is a unique design, a unique feel. It's trying to teach people how to grip a pen, right? It also writes words, right? So like, am I saying the writing experience of a Lamy safari is secondary? No, but that's not the only question Lamy's trying to answer when they're designing a safari. So when you say the focus should be on the writing experience, I think you're missing out on what makes the pen great overall, right? What if you had the best writing pen that wasn't comfortable or you didn't enjoy looking at or didn't feel right in your hand, right? Like I'm struggling with this a little bit because I'm not disagreeing, but I think I'm almost trying to figure out how to reword this into, you know, a more defined answer. And I'm not sure I could do it. Do you have any help with me on this one?

Myke Hurley: I don't know in general if like, it feels like that there is more headroom into making a pen expensive in ways that are other than its writing ability. Like it feels like that's kind of probably been perfected at this point. Like the way that say a fountain pen, like it's experienced to use the way it feels to write. I don't know how much more innovation is left. And if there is any, it's going to be really complicated and expensive for a company to develop that. I feel like where they can, if they, you know, make it look prettier, use more expensive materials, that's, so it's like, yeah, maybe the focus is on making pens more expensive instead of good writers. But I would argue that maybe we've already made them as good as they can be. And if you don't think a pen is a good writer, you shouldn't be spending any money on it. No matter what materials it is, I don't know.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Yeah, I agree with that. Like I'm having a hard time separating the two, right. And almost like taking costs out because I don't know how, how am I going to make the writing better? Like you're saying, right? Like for lack of a better term, is that solved, right? The writing part is pretty much solved. Now, are we talking about quality control? Like, I think that's a different, a different question as well. So like, this is a really tough, like I get the idea behind the question. I'm not sure, or behind the hot take, but I'm not sure, like I'm totally, I have a, like a great answer to, to yeah, I totally agree with this or no, I totally disagree with this. I think it's, it's, it's somewhere in the middle. So, so let's break down the second part. You can have a better experience with a $30 pen than a $300 pen. Absolutely. I mean, sure. I mean, I will preach

Myke Hurley: that from the mountaintop. Yeah. It depends what the two are, doesn't it really? Yeah. And again,

Brad Dowdy: we're getting deep into preferences in this one as opposed to hot takes, but this is, this is just a fact, right there. You will never get an argument from me on this one, right? You were, this is, this is a fact. Like this is, this is what we, what we think about a lot. And we talk about, this gets into that value conversation that's impossible to define. Like, well, why is this pen $30 in this pen $300? And why should I buy, why should I buy the $300 one? Well, I mean, maybe you shouldn't like I, there's not a black and white answer to that. You know, the $30 pen could write better than your $300 pen. That's just a fact, but you know, you got to realize like, we're not just buying strictly one single thing when we're, when we're paying for a pen, you know, we're paying, we're buying all of it together. And maybe it's, you know, a $5 preppy that's just brilliant, right? Or, you know, maybe it's a $300, you know, pilot eight 23. That's like a technical Marvel, you know? So like, it's hard to compare those two and you can absolutely have a better experience with a $30 pen than a $300 pen. So I would almost say that's not even a hot take. I think that's just a fact. All right. All three of these lukewarm takes here, we're going to go, we're going to give these the lukewarm take came in from three different people at three different times, independent of each other, not like back and like, not like immediately one after the other. So the first one I had written down was pen choice matters more than paper. The second one, again, separate time, separate person, paper matters more than the pen. And then the third one in independent of the other two, ink matters more than the pen or the paper. So which is it, Myke? Are any of those hot takes?

Myke Hurley: So the first one is pen choice matters. Do you think people are trolling there? Like, do you, like, you know what I mean? Like what's going on? What's going on? I don't, I don't, because I

Brad Dowdy: actually, there could be some trolling, but I thought these work good together because I think there is one small take in there. And I think that people just, I think that my lukewarm take is that paper is more important than people give it credit for. So out of those three, I think the pen is the least important choice. I think the paper matters the most, the ink matters the second, and the pen does not matter. So maybe by pen choice matters. I would not say maybe by pen choice matters more than paper. Maybe they mean like refill or ink, you know, but like, I think, I think paper is the underrated, um, least, um, or the most forgotten aspect of, of the, the triangle here that we have to have, you know, like the pen, ink and paper, um, triangle. You need all of those things to, to do well. I think paper is the most underrated of the three. Um, and then ink matters a lot. Like ink matters a lot. I would go pen, paper, ink. What do you mean by pen? Can you define pen?

Myke Hurley: What is what question? What kind of question is that? What do you mean? Can I define? Like,

Brad Dowdy: is it the, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you say the pen matters the most, you're talking about the, the writing system as in like the, the internals, the refill aspect or the nib aspect of it, not

Myke Hurley: the physical barrel and design. For me, like, yes, like the quality of the nib. Like I find for me, a good fountain pen can make bad paper more bearable.

Myke Hurley: Where for me, good paper cannot make a bad pen more, more bearable.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. Yeah. I, I won't disagree with that. I see what you're saying.

Myke Hurley: Like, I think that, that like a good, a really good fountain pen can like even out problems in paper and where like, for me, that isn't the case. Cause like some of the things that I find worse in fountain pens, like scratchiness or whatever, even good paper can't stop that from

Brad Dowdy: happening for me. Okay. I can see that. Okay. I gotcha. So yeah. So, you know, the, the nib slash refill is the most important thing. Yeah. But I can, yes. That's part of that. In your mind. Yeah. Yeah. I, and I'm not saying papers, the most important thing I'm saying papers, the most forgotten. Like if someone has a pen and an ink and a, in a fountain pen, in the case of a fountain pen, a nib and they go, and then they just grab their, whatever the, the pad on their desk is and they go, Oh, this is terrible. Like the first question I'm asking is what paper are you using? Not what pen are you using or what nib do you have? Those are the set. That's the second question I asked. I think that's my point. Fair enough. So yeah, it's, it's good. So I think there, there's people who, uh, will, will break these in, uh, rank these in different orders, which is interesting to me. So yeah, that's good. That's good. All right. Next one could be, could be a little, little hot, maybe a little lukewarm. Miss me with holiday theme pens. What's your take on this?

Myke Hurley: Yeah. If you don't want them, you don't want them. Like I don't feel like I particularly need holiday theme pens. I like the occasional Christmas pen. Um, but I think I'm generally on the,

Brad Dowdy: the miss me with holiday theme pens. I like looking at them. I don't really care to own them. I think the one exception is Halloween. I think Halloween has the best colors and the best designs and kind of like the, the spooky themes, like kind of fit again, preferences, not really hot takes, right? Preferences. But I think in general, you know, miss me with the holiday pens. I would sign that petition, I guess. Um, you know, if we didn't have any holiday theme pens, I'd miss seeing some of the spooky Halloween stuff. I do like that. But, uh, outside of that, yeah, I'm good. I'm covered. Um, all right. Next one that this might be a hot take. I don't know. It might, maybe it's obvious. I'm interested to see what you say. Fountain pens are the worst choice in almost every situation.

Brad Dowdy: I'm having a hard time disagreeing with that statement.

Brad Dowdy: I, I'm with you. I'm with you. I think I agree. I mean, I think I'm in hot take. I think I'm in hot take ville on this one. I think this is a hot take. And I think I'm signed, sign me up. I can agree with it, but I don't agree. You know what I'm saying?

Myke Hurley: Like, I can, I can 100% agree with, like, I can say, yes, you are right. But that's, I prefer them.

Brad Dowdy: But except at my desk, writing in my journal, you know, with my cursive italic nib and my beautiful ink. I mean, then it's the best, it's the best choice in that situation.

Myke Hurley: Just all, every time I use them. It's like, you know, I'm using, I'm using a fountain pen today to just write down time codes of things that I need to tidy up in the episode. Like, it's like, so pointless, you know, like such, such simple writing, which, you know, I have to have like a whole thing. Like I use my, my, it's called, man, is it called Inkwell?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. From a good. The little stand?

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Good, good made better, right? Good made better. So I use that stand because most of my fountain pens, uh, pen wells, pen wells. Yeah, the pen wall. Pen well. So I use the pen well thing, uh, because I, I can't be unscrewing and re-screwing the cap on my pen every time, right? Uh.

Brad Dowdy: Because we make a lot of mistakes.

Myke Hurley: Yep. Not really. But like, it's just like a whole thing where it's like, it can get annoying. Well, because I used to do it, you could sometimes hear the pen being capped and uncapped on my microphone. True. It's like a whole thing. And, uh, so really just a simple pen that wouldn't leak or whatever, or could be just left out would be better. But no, I want to use a fountain pen for that instead because I enjoy it. It feels nicer to use. I don't know.

Brad Dowdy: Right, right. Yeah. I thought that was an interesting one. Um, I kind of didn't disagree with that. Um, so related, we're going to wrap it. This is the last hot take one, and this is for me, and it's kind of related to the previous topic. So, uh, this is for me. Ballpoint pens are the best choice in almost every situation.

Ballpoint vs. Rollerball Pens Debate

Myke Hurley: Why ballpoint over rollerball? Like, what's wrong with a rollerball? Because rollerballs bleed.

Brad Dowdy: You bleed. You bleed. Mm-hmm. Gel pens don't dry. Fountain pens don't dry. Fountain pens are particular on paper. Ball pens are the best choice in almost every situation. That may be my hottest take of all. Like, I'm open to disagreement. I'm just like...

Myke Hurley: No, I mean, I'm back with you in the same boat as I was with the previous question, which is like, I can agree with you. I don't want to. Mm. You know?

Brad Dowdy: Like, I, I, like, I, I, I use a lot of ballpoints, right? So, like, I, I am no more than 50% fountain pen usage. Um, you know, and it's probably less than that. Like, I'm staring at a ballpoint, like, literally, like, near my writing hand is a pencil, several fountain pens, a gel pen, uh, three gel pens, and a ballpoint. Like, I just use lots of stuff all the time, right? So,

Brad Dowdy: if, yeah, like, out in the real world, like the chat is saying, you know, like, I left the house yesterday. Guess what, you know, guess what pen I took? Like, I took a ballpoint, right? I took a roadie because it has a ballpoint refill. Like, that's always going to prove, uh, to, to be the right choice. Um, in most, in most situations, even sitting here writing in my journal, I, I absolutely write in my journal with a ballpoint pen all the time, you know? So, I, I use ballpoints a lot. So, that's, uh, that's my hottest of hot takes, and, uh, we can leave it there. I would love to hear any other hot takes we have. I, there's probably, I don't know, I wrote, like, two or three pages in my plotter of hot takes. I thought these were, these were the best ones. I thought these were the ones definitely worth, uh, discussing and, and seeing if we kind of agreed, disagreed. Again, you know, pretty lukewarm in the grand scheme of things. This is all very preference-based lukewarm takes, but, uh, I think it's fun. When we have fun with stationary, Myke, that's, that's, that's the goal, right? And we want to have fun with all this stuff. And I, I like talking about all of these things. Uh, I, I'm, uh, I'm still wrapping my head around some of it. Like, do I really disagree with that? Do I agree with that? I don't know. I'm not sure. But, uh, Hey, use what you love, love what you use. And, uh, you know, well, that'll always be the best take of all. If you want to find links and information about this episode,

Myke Hurley: you can go to relay.fm slash pen addict slash five, three, eight. Thank you to trade coffee and Squarespace for the support of this show. You can find Brad online over at pen addict.com spoke design.com. He's pen addict on Instagram, Dowdyism on Twitter and Brad streams three times a week at twitch.tv slash pen addict. You can find me online. I'm at I Myke, I M Y K E and go to cortexmerch.com as well. Uh, we'll be back next time until then say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.