The Pen Addict 687/transcript: Difference between revisions

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The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	687
Title:	Paper Pro Move Titan
Release Date:	October 16th, 2025
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 687
Audio File:	Audio Episode 687
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 687
Length:	7171 min <br />1.183 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke: From Relay, this is The Pen Addict, episode 687. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, Enigma Stationery, and Factor. My name is Myke Hurley and I have the pleasure of being joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad.
Brad: What's up Myke Hurley, how are you?
Myke: Oh, I'm good. That was fast. You're caffeinated right now?
Brad: I am more than caffeinated and equally not caffeinated enough, so I do have coffee in front of me as we record on this fine Thursday morning, you know, for me anyway. For listeners, who knows, but still, you should have your coffee too.
Myke: I do, I have a coffee right now.
Myke: Actually, this is a mandate. Whatever time you're listening to this show, get a coffee. It doesn't matter. 11 o'clock, well, it's your own fault. We told you, go get one.
Myke: Come on, let's go.
Brad: What is your problem?
Myke: Let's go.
Brad: What is your problem?
Myke: It's part of the addiction. It's also coffee. I'm also addicted to coffee.
Brad: It is, it is. Well, should we get going with some feedback, Myke?
Myke: Oh, I want to. I'm excited for this feedback.
Brad: Myke, do you know what the German word for titanium is?
Brad: Why don't you surprise me, Brad?
Brad: The German word for titanium is titan.
Myke: Okay.
Myke: Like, how would I have known that? Like, I don't know.
Myke: Well, you wouldn't. You wouldn't.
Myke: So this is in reference to the Kveco Titan sport, right?
Brad: Of all the German words, I would not have thought that one would have actually been the German word for titanium.
Myke: Let me just say, like, I have a few things to say here.
Brad: One is, we finally found the German word that's shorter than the English word.
Myke: So that's good news for everyone.
Myke: So this is in reference to the Kveco Titan sport, which we spoke a lot about last week.
Myke: And I made lots of references to how terrible the name is.
Myke: Now, here's the thing, Brad.
Myke: All right.
Myke: So I assume that people are saying this to you, like, oh, stupid.
Myke: And I'm going to be not saying that.
Myke: Oh, I got one of those emails.
Brad: One of the emails said, I feel sorry for you guys, was one of my emails.
Myke: Well, I tell you what, that person, I feel sorry for you.
Brad: Hey, person, what is the German word for brass?
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: It's messing.
Myke: Do you know what the Kveco is not called?
Brad: Kveco messing.
Myke: All right?
Brad: So don't come in here and go, oh, what about German?
Myke: No.
Brad: The point of the conversation is the names are bad and they don't have a good system for it.
Myke: Don't try and input a system on something where there is no system.
Brad: If they're going to say everything's in German now, then they have some rebranding to do.
Myke: I mean, that's Kveco's thing, right?
Brad: Their system is no system.
Myke: Exactly.
Brad: And that was what we were criticizing.
Myke: It's a bad name.
Brad: They could have chose anything else, but they chose Titan.
Myke: Titan, probably because it's the German word for titanium, but this is not what they do
Myke: with literally any of the others.
Brad: So what are we supposed to do with this information?
Myke: Like what they should have done is what they did for aluminum and used the periodic table
Myke: for all of them.
Brad: That is cool, right?
Myke: That would have been, I would be in on that.
Brad: Yes.
Myke: TI sport, boom.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: But a lot of people use TI, so I get why they didn't do it.
Brad: Yeah, but sport is their thing, right?
Myke: That's their thing.
Brad: Sport is their thing.
Myke: Yeah, I agree with you.
Brad: So take that.
Myke: Shout out to our friend, Urban Hafner, had our back.
Myke: His message on, we were getting shelled on this on Mastodon as well, which I appreciate.
Myke: I do appreciate all the feedback.
Brad: You know what, Brad?
Myke: I'm going for everyone today.
Brad: The one place where I'm not surprised is Mastodon.
Myke: We're getting this feedback on Mastodon, were we?
Brad: What a surprise.
Myke: Yeah.
Myke: Yeah.
Myke: Yes.
Brad: So shout out to Urban, to your point, Myke.
Brad: Urban, also a German, also has been on this show, founder of Fountain Pen Companion, fpc.inc.
Brad: Awesome, awesome person.
Brad: He says, yeah, but they have a brass sport and not a messing sport.
Myke: Brad will be happy to hear that, I guess.
Myke: So yeah, like, but no, I did not know it was the German word for Titan, nor did I even
Myke: consider the fact that that might be the case.
Myke: Brad, looking at all these pens, you've got a good image here, it shows them all.
Myke: So you have the bronze brass steel AL sport.
Brad: Oh yeah, I actually wanted to talk about that.
Myke: You got to go to image two on that one.
Brad: Yeah, I'm looking at it right now.
Myke: The reason it's called the Titan is because there's not enough space to put titanium on it.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: That's why they called it this.
Brad: Like, if they would have wanted to call this the Kaweco Titanium Sport, they would have
Brad: run out of space on the cap.
Brad: That's why they did this.
Brad: It's nothing to do with anything else.
Myke: And then as chat's alluding to, as we listen here in our wonderful members discord, you
Myke: know, what's the, what's the periodic table?
Myke: What's the periodic element for plastic?
Myke: Why isn't that on the, on the plastic sport?
Myke: So we can, we can go down the rabbit hole here.
Brad: So to, to kind of put a bow on this.
Myke: Well, two things.
Brad: One, the pens that we talked about last week are already available like worldwide now.
Myke: So I saw them from last time when we saw them like randomly on the, I think it was Stilo
Brad: Estile, the Italian site.
Myke: Who's always like a head.
Brad: I've seen them everywhere now.
Myke: So the Titan and the piston, the Navy piston are up on available, but this post I am putting
Brad: in the show notes on the second image of the Instagram post has all the weights of the
Myke: pins, which I think is pretty cool.
Brad: So it's the bronze checks in at the heaviest at 48 grams, brass 43 steel, my personal favorite
Brad: at 41 grams and the Titan is 26.
Brad: So then aluminum 21 and then the plastic 10.
Brad: So it was a good little, uh, setup now that they just like keep blowing up this lineup and
Brad: just expanding it.
Brad: Uh, I think they do have an all silver one.
Brad: Actually, I just found somebody references in the comments and I looked it up.
Brad: It's called the Kaveco Sterling Sport, which everybody knows that, uh, I'm not going to
Brad: get into this, uh, Sterling Sport.
Myke: Um, and that is 44 grams.
Brad: It says here.
Myke: Um, although somebody, there are people referencing 48 and 56 in the comments of the, of this post,
Myke: but this, uh, big pen.co.uk is maybe, I don't know.
Myke: Maybe it's not the best place.
Myke: Let me look at this Apple boom, uh, page.
Myke: Do they have the weight on it?
Myke: I don't know.
Myke: Do they have the silver?
Brad: Kaveco Sterling Sport.
Myke: I assume that's the silver one.
Brad: Yeah.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: It's 56 grams.
Brad: There he goes.
Myke: Okay.
Brad: Yeah.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: That sounds right.
Myke: So that'll be the heaviest, which makes sense.
Myke: Yep.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: Cool.
Brad: I'm so happy that Kaveco is in our lives.
Myke: Just like we talked about.
Brad: Let's say there may, I love, I'm a, I'm a Kaveco super fan.
Myke: Like I'm, I'm not going to, um, nothing makes me happy around the bush, but this was great.
Brad: Then this conversation today where someone tries to get a being right point on me and I get one right back.
Myke: Did you though?
Brad: Yes, I did.
Myke: Because you can't tell me that like they called it Titanium because, yeah, they called it Titan because it's German.
Brad: Right.
Myke: Like, because that is not just the way they do things.
Brad: It's just the way they did it.
Myke: It's not like our fault for not knowing that.
Brad: Yes.
Myke: The point was, it's a bad name.
Brad: The name is still bad, even if it's German.
Myke: Like, it's not a good name.
Myke: Titan is just not a good name for a pen.
Myke: And just for the record, I, I, I don't fully agree with the bad name thing, which I think I said last week.
Brad: So like, well, but we were saying that I don't think it's awesome, but I don't think it's bad.
Brad: Titan is a wrong name for a pen that's so small.
Myke: Yes.
Myke: Right.
Brad: Like, that's the issue here.
Myke: It's like, yeah, I am, I'm convinced that Germans understand the reference Titan.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: Right.
Brad: And like, and so, you know, I don't think this is even a lost in translation kind of problem.
Myke: I do agree.
Brad: I do agree.
Myke: All right.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: Coffee.
Brad: Coffee.
Myke: This is why we need the coffee.
Brad: Coffee's working.
Myke: So I can scream at our listeners.
Brad: I knew this, I knew this would be, this was great.
Myke: Like, I got that, the first email had to have been within the hour of posting it last week.
Brad: I was like, how have you even heard the podcast yet?
Myke: And it's like, did you know?
Myke: And I was like, actually, I didn't.
Myke: I didn't, but it doesn't change anything.
Myke: All right.
Myke: Let's, let's pick this up and reset here and talk about what we're using because we have
Myke: some interesting, interesting usage right now.
Myke: And I'm just speaking for myself and I'm looking at your list and I was like, oh, this is,
Myke: this is pretty cool.
Myke: So what do you, what do you, what's on your, what's on your desk?
Brad: What are you using today, Myke?
Myke: So we're going to talk about this later on in the show today, but I have in front of
Myke: me for my show notes, the remarkable paper pro move, which is the new little kind of like
Myke: pocket notebook guy.
Brad: Like that's, that's what this product is.
Myke: So I have that in front of me today.
Myke: That's what I'm using instead of any other notebook to take my notes with.
Myke: Um, but in the possibility that this product fails me for the task today, because I've
Myke: not used it for this before.
Myke: So who knows?
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: That's what I was going to ask you.
Brad: I'm sitting next to it, uh, a sidekick pocket, the line version and the sailor 1911 King of
Brad: Pen Royal Tangerine.
Myke: Oh, that's a good one.
Brad: Yeah.
Brad: That's a good one.
Myke: I have, uh, I have owned that at one point in time and decided I didn't need like, I think
Myke: at the time I had like four King of Pens.
Myke: I think I'm down to two.
Brad: So, which is a more, more stable area for me to be.
Myke: But, um, I, I have the complete opposite.
Brad: I have the non Titan version of the Royal Tangerine.
Myke: I have the 1911 S.
Brad: So the, the tiny one that this, the, the 1911 S could actually fit inside of the KOP.
Myke: I'm pretty sure.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: I have that too.
Brad: Okay.
Myke: The same color.
Brad: I have the little one.
Brad: The big.
Brad: They did the full set.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: And I like having it.
Myke: So, cause I actually, the reason I'm using this pen is, uh, it, I, it kind of just been
Myke: on display for a while.
Myke: I haven't used it in ages, but when we were doing, when I had my friends, uh, here, like
Myke: to take all these, you know, did I reference on the show about having like photos and
Myke: videos and stuff taken for cause expand products?
Myke: We just had no creative team.
Brad: Yes.
Brad: Yes.
Myke: And I shared your article for, I saw that.
Myke: Thank you so much.
Brad: That, that made me feel good.
Brad: I like, I thought that was a good picture.
Brad: It was a good behind the scenes picture.
Myke: Basically you're doing like product shoots, right?
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: Product shoots and, uh, content, you know, this is like a thing now where like you talk
Brad: through the decisions that you've made, that kind of stuff.
Myke: Right.
Brad: So, um, we did some of that stuff that's to be, to be coming out later.
Myke: Like it's just like really, it was just like banking a bunch of stuff to be probably used
Brad: forever, uh, realistically.
Myke: And so I wanted some fountain pens to do some paper tests and, um, I broke this one out,
Brad: filled it up with fire on fire as is the way.
Myke: Um, and I was kind of talking through to some non fountain pen users, like what this pen
Brad: is like, and why it's so expensive and like being able to compare it to something which
Myke: ostensibly looks the same, just smaller and like going through, you know, like realistically
Brad: you're paying for the nib because the nib is huge and gold.
Brad: And then also just a markup on it being a more limited product and more exciting product.
Myke: Yeah.
Myke: We've talked about the, the King of Pen ad nauseum here because it is one of the, how did
Brad: I put it?
Myke: It's, it's definitely like not when, when you look at the price, it doesn't add up, right?
Brad: Because it's a plastic barrel pen.
Myke: Generally, I'm talking about the base level King of Pen.
Brad: Yeah.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: They're, they're a plastic barrel, but like the entire, you're paying for the entire front
Myke: end of that pen, like they have this whole metal contraption inside the section and thing.
Myke: And then an enormous 21 carat nib.
Myke: So you're paying like probably more than half of it is in that front end of the pen.
Myke: And then there's like a plastic barrel on top of it.
Myke: So yeah, it's really good.
Brad: But it's one of those things.
Myke: So it's like, you know, I've told this story many times.
Brad: The first time I saw one of your King of Pens, I just burst into laughter because it
Brad: just looked so, so ridiculous to me.
Brad: Like it just, it really looked like a prop.
Brad: It does look like a prop pen.
Brad: Because everything is scaled up.
Brad: Like I've used pens that are bigger, but they have a regular nip, right?
Brad: This is just like, this, this thing, it makes your hand look small, right?
Brad: Like it's just like this weird thing.
Brad: And then I used one and you're like, ah, okay.
Myke: That's the problem.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: I get it now.
Brad: Because like they're kind of cartoonish, right?
Myke: The models that we have, yours is a bright orange.
Brad: Mine that I use the most is a translucent blue, right?
Myke: It looks like, it looks like it could be a kid's toy.
Myke: And it's like, well, how much was that?
Myke: I was like, and then you just give someone a heart attack.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: But then you're like, use it and you're like, oh, okay.
Brad: I kind of get it.
Myke: It's, it's kind of different.
Brad: It's kind of different.
Myke: So, yeah.
Myke: Last question on what you're using.
Brad: Lined as your choice.
Myke: Were you, were you held hostage for that?
Brad: Like, did you choose that on purpose?
Myke: I have, I have actually.
Myke: You got to use them all.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: I mean.
Brad: You got to use them all, right?
Brad: I wouldn't use the lined.
Myke: I just want to give you grief.
Myke: I just want to give you grief.
Brad: I wouldn't use the lined for anything else.
Myke: Um, yeah, this is because this is just like the most, even the most kind of disposable
Brad: of any of the note taking that I do.
Myke: Like I'm literally just scribbling and writing down timestamps.
Brad: So I just picked the one that I'm least likely to use, which is lined.
Brad: Gotcha.
Brad: Gotcha.
Brad: Gotcha.
Brad: All right.
Myke: I am using, I have an inordinate amount of fountain pens inked up right now, um, because
Brad: I've been doing postcards and things like that.
Brad: So I've been using a bunch of different things right now.
Myke: And kind of the one that I picked, uh, for like today and today's show notes and one,
Myke: I haven't been using as much on postcards for reasons that will become clear momentarily.
Brad: Um, I'm using the Matthew Martin OG one in Titan, Myke.
Myke: I think it's just called Titan.
Brad: I'm not, y'all have to check on the name.
Myke: This is a full Titan.
Brad: I think it would be more like Matthew, right?
Myke: Right.
Brad: Rather than Matthew as well.
Myke: I don't know.
Myke: This is a full Titan barrel.
Myke: And, uh, it's just, I, I think I actually bought this.
Myke: It might've even been the show.
Brad: You bought your Royal Tangerine.
Myke: This was an Atlanta pen show purchase when Matthew was, um, for, I think it might've been
Myke: his first pen show.
Myke: And a bunch of us were buying his, his various pens.
Myke: And I just bought a very simple, clean looking titanium.
Myke: No, like we'll put a link into his site and he's up and down on making pens.
Myke: Sometimes he'll stop making pens.
Myke: Sometimes he just goes all in.
Brad: And, um, this one, and he has a lot of different like embellishments and patterns.
Myke: Mine is just smooth.
Brad: Um, even the grip section is, is just smooth, but it's a beautiful pen and it's kind of smallish.
Brad: Um, I like the size of it.
Brad: And what I was saying, uh, about, you know, not using it as much on postcards is because
Brad: I have a micro architect nib in this, which when I went to go ink this pen, um, this was
Brad: chosen for me to ink by my Twitch chat.
Brad: And I opened it up and this nib was in it.
Brad: And I was like, okay, cool.
Brad: You know, this nib looks good.
Brad: Then I look closer at the nib and I was like, oh boy, this is a really intense nib.
Brad: So I'm pretty sure this is a Mark Bacchus, a nib grinder, micro architect on there.
Myke: And it's so good.
Myke: Like I love using this and, um, it's just a really good, good pen for me.
Myke: It's just not good for bad paper postcards, right?
Brad: Like a, a sharp architect that goes against my handwriting doesn't work well on a very,
Brad: very like poor paper quality.
Myke: So I'm using it in the life Hachimanjia A5 notebook, which is probably like my product
Myke: of the year.
Myke: Like I've used this notebook pretty much all year.
Myke: Um, it's been great.
Brad: It's smooth paper.
Brad: The micro architect just glides across this page.
Brad: It's inked with a Teranishi guitar nighttime soda, which is a deep dark blue.
Brad: It's really, really pretty.
Myke: Um, I have used my retro 51 2025 pen edition, which reminds me, I need to ship you yours so
Myke: you can, so I can stop talking about it and you can actually have it in your hands.
Myke: Um, I've been using that a lot this week for like the postcards and the envelope addressing.
Myke: And that's probably been my most used pen this week.
Myke: The, the Schmidt P8127 is doing work on envelope addressing and all those types of notes and
Myke: addresses and things like that.
Brad: That's really good.
Brad: And then alongside that, I've been using the yet to launch, but coming soon spoke design
Brad: model seven mechanical pencil, which we're holding off on like really digging into until
Brad: they're available because it's, that's a very long conversation about this new pencil because
Brad: it's, it's, it's awesome.
Brad: Um, um, it's basically, I don't want to say like fully modular, but you know how we do
Brad: things that spoke, um, very, very maximalist.
Brad: Like we can change like all kinds of parts on this and I'll hold until it's actually available.
Brad: It should probably this month.
Myke: Like it's just, it's a very complex, uh, thing to get built and added to the website when we're
Brad: just adding like an obscene number of SKUs to the website.
Myke: Since everything is going to be like, uh, parted out, uh, to build the pens.
Myke: So, um, good times.
Myke: We do it to ourselves.
Myke: We, we, Brian and I love doing this.
Brad: We're spoke making like these really complex pens.
Myke: And it's like, we do it to ourselves, don't we?
Myke: And it's like, yep, but we wouldn't do it any other way.
Myke: So we, we enjoy doing it.
Myke: So I can't wait to share that with people.
Brad: I do have a picture on my, uh, uh, Instagram somewhere, which I can share, but that should
Myke: be coming soon.
Myke: And then once they're actually live, um, we'll, we'll, we'll dig into it because it's more
Myke: than just that, that one, uh, that we'll be launching.
Myke: So very cool.
Brad: I feel like you guys can't be stopped.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: It's super fun.
Myke: Brian, like I said, I've said it before.
Brad: Brian is just an engineering genius.
Brad: Like the way he, he like builds this stuff and thinks about stuff and how it all has
Brad: to work together and get this stuff made.
Myke: It's like, I couldn't do it.
Myke: Like he's, he's insane.
Myke: Like it's really, really cool to really, really cool to work with someone like that.
Myke: Who just goes like here.
Myke: I'm like, dang.
Myke: Okay.
Myke: That's a lot.
Myke: And it works.
Brad: So that's pretty cool.
Brad: All right.
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Myke: All right, Myke, we got our shout-out of the week.
Brad: Shout-out of the week.
Myke: Ink Apothecarian on Instagram.
Myke: That's ink underscore apothecarian.
Brad: Holy cow, I love this feed.
Brad: I've been talking with ink apothecarian for a while now, Joveth, on various platforms.
Brad: We chat back and forth, and as a follower of his ink apothecarian Instagram, I cracked
Brad: up when I saw this post recently, and I was like, oh, I'm sharing this for shout-out of
Brad: the week.
Brad: When you get into the pipetor stage, Myke, if you're looking at this tool of this link
Brad: that I shared, you have definitely crossed a threshold that not all of us have crossed
Myke: and raise his hand here.
Myke: I have a pipetor because I had to make like 100 ink samples.
Brad: Spell this word.
Brad: P-I-P-E-T-T-O-R.
Myke: I'm doing it off the top of my pipetor.
Myke: Like pipetor.
Brad: So it's basically a chemistry science tool for labs, right, where you transfer liquids
Myke: quickly and efficiently measured.
Brad: And like accurately, right?
Myke: Accurately.
Myke: Accurately.
Myke: That's the word I'm looking for.
Brad: So it has like settings.
Brad: It's like a handheld tool, and it has a long...
Brad: So what's not shown in like the main image there is the actual like pipet thing, the
Brad: plastic tube that comes off the front of that, that actually draws in the ink.
Brad: And then it basically has a setting on it.
Brad: You can see like the little like twist mechanism there.
Brad: You can set it to how many milliliters.
Brad: Like I can see on one of his images, he has it set to three.
Brad: Three milliliters.
Brad: So it allows you just to repeatedly fill an accurate amount of, in this case, ink, even
Brad: though I'm sure that's not what the original intention of this device is for.
Brad: But it is a very, very handy ink sample building device.
Myke: And I bought one for two San Francisco pen shows ago, maybe three ago when they asked me
Myke: to do some ink samples.
Myke: And I made like a hundred and something ink samples while I went and bought one of these.
Myke: They're not...
Myke: They didn't...
Myke: It wasn't crazy expensive.
Myke: I'm totally going to get this wrong, but I think it was maybe only like 40 bucks.
Brad: I wrote a whole article about all these tools that I use to build these samples.
Brad: And it was super fun.
Brad: And I like that.
Brad: I like this post.
Brad: And like this is a 20 image post.
Brad: And like he is all about the ink and it's awesome.
Myke: So I wanted to give him a shout out.
Brad: If you're not following Ink Apothecarian, go do that.
Brad: And you will learn more about inks.
Brad: I promise you that.
Myke: All right, Myke.
Brad: What is this follow up here?
Myke: I want to get some redemption for Kat.
Myke: So you remember on the last episode, Kat wrote in and in their question referenced how they
Myke: love the gift guide episodes of the holidays.
Myke: And it was in that moment that my heart broke like Ralph.
Myke: Kat's my favorite listener.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: It's like, was it like Ralph Wiggum in the episode of The Simpsons where Bart's like,
Brad: you can watch him in real time.
Brad: You can see his heartbreak.
Brad: And that was me.
Myke: But then, so Kat wrote in and said, as much as I cackled at your reading of my feedback
Myke: last week, my people-pleasing heart can't stand the thought that you might think I don't
Myke: value you, Myke.
Myke: The Christmas episodes hold a special place in my heart as I make a tradition of listening
Myke: to them every year while I light my Christmas tree.
Brad: That is beautiful, by the way.
Brad: You two are the one podcast that I never miss.
Brad: And I'm so grateful for all that you do.
Brad: I had to put this in because obviously I was not bothered.
Brad: But I didn't want Kat to be upset.
Brad: You know what I mean?
Brad: So like, I put this, I was thinking about just sending this to Kat, like sending a note
Brad: to Kat.
Brad: But I was like, you know what?
Myke: It's going to go in the show.
Brad: Of course I understand, Kat, that you're listening to the show.
Myke: You must, I wouldn't expect somebody to only listen to the, maybe people do.
Myke: Like they subscribe to the whole feed and just listen to the gift guide.
Myke: So I would just naturally assume you enjoy me enough.
Brad: But it was very sweet of you to write in and let me know.
Brad: That was nice.
Brad: That's hilarious.
Brad: What wasn't so hilarious, Myke, I might have a little bone to pick here with our friends
Brad: over at Yard O'Led.
Myke: Did you get an invite to the new shop opening?
Brad: Did not.
Brad: There in London for the Yard O'Led.
Brad: No, I didn't get to go.
Brad: They have a big celebrity like Richard Hammond and Mary Barry.
Myke: Like I looked at this post and I was like, yeah, okay.
Myke: It was the world in which I was going to this.
Myke: I thought you would enjoy this.
Myke: It is a bougie.
Brad: I don't understand why all these people are there.
Myke: I mean, it's anything.
Brad: And it's not just like a London thing or British thing.
Myke: Anything like OG for like that, you know, area or country or part of the world like is
Brad: going to bring in these historical things.
Myke: And I'm sure over the years they've done.
Brad: The amount of work that Yard O'Led has probably done for people that we have never seen.
Myke: That's true.
Brad: It's probably astonishing.
Myke: All of these people probably have one of their pens, right?
Brad: Like at some point maybe they've been gifted it or something like that.
Myke: Like someone's like, hey, for Christmas I bought you this pen.
Brad: You contact these people and they'll make it bespoke for you or something like that.
Myke: And now you're in the client book.
Myke: Right.
Brad: So I imagine it's something like that.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: But number one, I'm a fan of Yard O'Led.
Brad: I love their designs.
Brad: I've always loved it.
Myke: So basically the news is they've opened a beautiful, like truly beautiful looking store in London,
Myke: which is amazing.
Brad: Like I love it.
Myke: I'm so happy that a brand as old as Yard O'Led would want a new store and would open it in London.
Brad: I think that's fantastic.
Myke: So I would like to go here at some point because it does look like a really beautiful store.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: And I was shocked that it's their first store.
Brad: Like I would not have been surprised to hear that they maybe had one in like the 60s or 70s,
Myke: 1960s, 1970s, 80s, maybe closed down in the 80s or something like that.
Brad: No, they've like never had a store.
Myke: And like this is a classic brand that I think could pull off, could have pulled off a store before today.
Brad: And I just find it super interesting.
Brad: I think their pens are beautiful.
Brad: I've owned one in the past and it's a very large, they're known for, if you're not familiar with Yard O'Led,
Brad: they're known for their sterling silver pens.
Brad: They're big and they're beautiful and just wonderfully detailed and just basically like heirloom type pens, right?
Brad: But also like highly functional.
Brad: I love the one that I had.
Brad: It was just too big for me to use on a daily basis.
Brad: But it's one of those pens I just like stared at and I was like, I really like this pen.
Myke: And I happened to notice when I was browsing around that they've just kind of either launched or relaunched a short pen,
Brad: like what they're calling their pocket pen.
Myke: So I'm actually going to have to check that out.
Myke: But for the materials that they use, it doesn't seem ridiculously priced.
Brad: Like this is a sterling silver barrel with a gold nib for like 700 and something dollars.
Brad: Like that doesn't seem like outrageous.
Myke: So I'll have to poke around and see if this is a more befitting size of Yard O'Led because I love everything that they do.
Brad: So I kind of want one of their pencils.
Brad: You know, they're not like a traditional mechanical pencil.
Brad: They're more of an old school mechanical pencil where they have like a twist feed to deploy the lead.
Brad: You know, you're not going to get, you know, your Kura Toga front ends on their classic vintage pencils.
Brad: But I just think they're beautiful.
Brad: I think they're cool.
Brad: And like the next time I'm in London, like you can bet I'm going there.
Brad: So we'll add that to anyone going to London for a stationery visit.
Brad: You should just go here and look, right?
Brad: Like because it's kind of jaw dropping to me.
Brad: It's something I'm a huge fan of.
Myke: All right, Myke, our good friends, Ralph Nader and the Wire Cutter are back.
Myke: Oh, my God.
Myke: I have been meaning to put this in the show notes for a couple of weeks and I keep forgetting.
Brad: We are here this, Myke, we're here this week to discuss pencil erasers.
Myke: Once again, asking you.
Myke: Once again, asking you.
Brad: So Anna Marie Conte, they did the last post on Ralph Nader's frustration with the flair pen, the paper, the classic paper mate flair and why the new ones weren't as good as the old ones.
Brad: And now Ralph Nader is apparently their stationery go to or vice versa.
Brad: Maybe Wire Cutter is Ralph Nader's stationery go to because he does not like how the erasers on his Dixon Ticonderoga are working.
Brad: And let me just say Ralph Nader should probably get with the modern times and switch off the paper mate flair and the Dixon Ticonderoga.
Brad: Maybe we could get there.
Myke: But I get you've been using the same thing forever.
Myke: I think at this point it isn't so much about like it feels to me a little bit more from his perspective of why are good things bad then.
Brad: You know what I mean?
Myke: I could think that's part of it too.
Myke: Like like it's annoying to him that products that have gotten worse over time in his that's creation.
Brad: And that's correct.
Brad: And but his gripe is basically in Wire Cutter and to cut to the chase of the whole answer to this article like they want to like why doesn't this eraser, you know, work as well or is there a better option or all of these things.
Myke: And it's well like erasers are degradable products.
Brad: Right.
Brad: And at some point they're going to fail.
Myke: And so it's hard to like have a cup of pencil sitting on your desk for two years and have an expectation that you're going to pick up an eraser two years from now and it's going to work.
Myke: Right.
Brad: It's just not.
Brad: That's not how these this product works.
Brad: So it's kind of an unanswerable question.
Myke: But you can find and I think what Wire Cutter was trying to do is find, hey, can we find a better starting point?
Myke: Right.
Brad: Like what is a better eraser to begin with?
Brad: And, you know, will it last longer than, you know, the Dixon Ticonderoga that Ralph Nader's looking at?
Myke: So this is what I love the most about not just this article that Anne-Marie did, but the previous article is they go so deep and so nerdy in this.
Myke: This is like the perfect pen addict type of article where they really get into the nuts and bolts of the hows and whys.
Myke: They bring out a bunch of products that are not just mainstream products, but that, you know, nerds like us would use.
Brad: Like they they repeatedly talk about the Mitsubishi 9850, which I think is maybe the best pencil made right now.
Brad: And it has a great eraser.
Myke: So go through this.
Myke: Read all about the erasers.
Myke: The short, like I said, the short version is there's no good eraser.
Myke: Right.
Myke: They're just all fine.
Myke: They're fine.
Myke: And then they're going to wear out.
Myke: And then you just need to do it.
Myke: Get another one.
Brad: If you are really obsessed about this, you need to move to a brick eraser, which they do a good job of testing those out as well, which are your basically your handheld erasers.
Brad: Right.
Myke: So you have your pencil, then you have a separate eraser, which not everyone wants.
Brad: They want the eraser on the end of the pencil because it's more convenient.
Myke: I get it.
Brad: But it's not as good of an eraser.
Myke: The on pencil erasers are never going to be as good as the standalone erasers, which the bar cutter has found out.
Brad: And in this review, like where they test all this out, they figure out like, hey, the Statler Mars plastic eraser, that's pretty good.
Myke: It's better than all these other erasers.
Brad: So they even go into a dehydration experiment, which is essentially the problem with your standard.
Myke: You know, on pencil erasers, which we don't need to get into that, but they do take it like pretty crazily on testing these erasers.
Brad: And they do some before and after some like pre dehydration and some post dehydration, which is kind of the aging process that Ralph Nader's pencils were going through on the pencil cup on his desk.
Myke: And some some fare better over longer times, like like the one that he uses, the Diconderoga is horrible after the dehydration where the Mitsubishi is looks pretty much the same.
Brad: Right.
Myke: So it's handling the drying times better.
Brad: So it's all good.
Myke: The funny thing that I get out of this, aside from the entire thing, I think it's awesome, is on the basic on pencil pencil test, they don't even include Blackwing in the test, despite including Blackwing in the content of this post, like interviewing Blackwing.
Brad: I mean, they do have it in here, but like it's one of the items, but it's just it's such a poor eraser.
Myke: Like they just don't give it any any any love.
Brad: So it is in there.
Myke: I don't want to misspeak, but it is in there.
Brad: But they're like, yeah, don't use that.
Myke: It's it's not good.
Brad: So which I think is funny because that's correct.
Myke: That's the correct answer.
Brad: They are not good erasers.
Myke: I don't ever use the Blackwing erasers if I have to.
Brad: So, yeah, go check this out.
Myke: My feeling is a standalone eraser is like I feel like I can sometimes see through the matrix.
Brad: Oh, clearly that first article did good page numbers for the wire cutter.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: So they're like, let's do another one.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: But I mean, to their credit, they go deep.
Myke: Well, they don't.
Brad: They do do it.
Myke: This is what they do.
Brad: Right.
Myke: Like this is that this is their bread and butter.
Brad: But this is actually making a story out of their product testing, which I can see why they want to do more of it.
Myke: And it's also just like the headlines funny.
Brad: Yes, it is.
Myke: And like they even brought in Caroline Weaver to talk about this.
Brad: Of course.
Myke: I mean, who else?
Brad: And they get they get Caroline to talk about pencils like the Camel HB, which is one of my favorite, which like literally no one has ever heard over used in their life, much less Ralph Nader.
Myke: But it's a glorious, amazing pencil with a really good eraser.
Brad: It's just not a traditional eraser.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: It's like it's just one of the best pencils ever made, I think.
Myke: So, yeah, they do a good job.
Brad: And this is a great article.
Myke: And, yeah, if you're if you're adamant about getting a good pencil with a eraser, the Mitsubishi 9850 is good.
Brad: The Tombow 2558 is good.
Myke: And that's kind of the list.
Brad: After that, I'm going straight into a standalone eraser, buying a Tombow or a Stattler standalone eraser.
Myke: So I think those are about the only two pencils that I use their erasers regularly.
Brad: So I would just read the title because I said it was funny and I think it sells my point.
Brad: Ralph Nader has a pencil eraser problem.
Myke: We put 100 kids on the case.
Myke: Yes.
Myke: It's great.
Brad: That's true.
Myke: I should have pointed that out.
Brad: That was great.
Brad: Like, like give the kids the people who use this the most and let them tell you like they have opinions about this.
Brad: They know the difference between a good eraser and a bad eraser.
Brad: Let's get them like a handful of pencils and put them to the test.
Myke: And, yeah, it was really, really good.
Brad: Love it.
Myke: Really good.
Myke: All right.
Myke: This episode is brought to you by Enigma Stationery.
Brad: Enigma Stationery offers unique items made from in-house designs along with top brands and hard to find imports.
Myke: Time is running out to pre-order the Enigma Inkvent 2025.
Brad: They did not ask me to do that voice, but I felt that it would sell the point here.
Myke: Your time is running out.
Brad: Each Inkvent set includes 25 ink samples, a scratch-off sheet to reveal each day's ink name.
Myke: That is the awesome innovation in my opinion.
Brad: The whole thing is awesome.
Brad: New and improved vial labels for storage provided in a sealed envelope because no spoilers, and an exclusive new gift item.
Brad: The ink samples are an all-new selection for 2025.
Brad: For the first time, all sets will be the same to create a shared experience for every customer.
Brad: Each set will include a mix of currently available and hard-to-find inks across 12 different brands.
Brad: The Enigma Inkvent sets include your choice of eight stand colors, and if you don't need a stand, Enigma will swap it for a mystery item for you.
Brad: Get yours now for only $140, but be quick because only 50 sets are being made, and as of the time of this recording, only 10 remain.
Brad: Only 10 remain.
Brad: Only 10 remain.
Brad: No, different.
Brad: Pre-orders will be open until October 24th, or while supplies last, and will ship in early November, so it will arrive before December 1st.
Myke: And if you want free US shipping on orders of $50 or more, plus a free gift, go to enigmastationery.com slash penaddict, and you can use the code penaddict25 at checkout.
Myke: That is enigmastationery.com slash penaddict to get a free gift and free US shipping on orders of $50 or more with the code penaddict25.
Myke: Go and check out the amazing Enigma Inkvent set for this coming holiday season, which I cannot believe is getting so close.
Brad: Brad, we decided to go with a pumpkin costume for our first Halloween.
Myke: Oh, yes.
Myke: That is, that's the move.
Myke: Yeah.
Myke: Like, it's, it's gonna, it's gonna be amazing.
Myke: I want to do, like, we have a pumpkin carving kit, and I want to do a photo where me and Adina are holding pumpkin carving tools, and the baby's in the middle of us.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: It's gonna be funny.
Brad: Anyway, our thanks to Enigma Stationary for their support of this show and all of Relay.
Myke: Hey, can I just shout, I'm, I'm really excited that Enigma, like, this worked for Enigma, like, a few years ago, and they've continued doing this, because this is the most unique.
Myke: And they've, like, pushed it forward, like, you know, it's not just they're continuing to do it, they're, like, adapting it and making it better.
Brad: Yeah, so if you're into ink and want to just have fun playing with, like, an inkvent calendar, this one gives you inks from 25 different brands.
Brad: Or at least 25 different inks, but it's not all, like, the Diamine, nothing wrong with the Diamine or the Colorverse or anyone who does that, but that's singular brands.
Brad: Even though they do, like, really unique inks, like Diamine and Colorverse do, this gives you the opportunity to test a bunch of different brands.
Brad: And it's just really cool.
Brad: The body stand, the ink file stand is just amazingly cool.
Brad: They've got some really great options, like peppermint one I like a lot.
Myke: Yeah, I would have a hard, that would be the hardest thing, is to pick out which stands.
Myke: So, yeah, good stuff.
Brad: All right, Myke, a couple of topics here, and in our, oh, I say our, in my Toptober theme, themed work.
Myke: I'm here, you know.
Myke: You're here.
Myke: I'm alone for the ride.
Myke: I don't make the rules of the lists, but I'm here.
Brad: You just want to change the, you just want to change the name.
Myke: That's all I want to say.
Brad: Yeah, I want to change the name.
Brad: I want to, I want to make you change the categories.
Brad: Titantober, I think.
Brad: Titantober, yes.
Brad: That could be it.
Myke: Yeah, well, no.
Myke: It's concurrent.
Myke: Titantober is a concurrent thing that is also happening right now.
Brad: Because I, Brad, I guarantee you that this story is not done.
Myke: No, for sure, for sure.
Brad: So, I'm not going to, I'm, as I work through my Toptober lists, I'm not going through, like, every list yet.
Myke: I mean, that's the goal by the end of the year, but I wanted to hit the primary list.
Myke: So, last week, I'm talking about the micro gel ink pens.
Myke: And this time, I wanted to talk about the top five fountain pens for beginners, which I think is probably one of the more popular lists.
Myke: On this page, and in thinking about the previous list, and I can, actually, I'll get you a link to the, I have a little screenshot of the previous list.
Myke: There's not a lot of change in here.
Myke: And that's okay.
Myke: I'm actually really happy with the list for the beginner fountain pens.
Myke: And just to run down the number one through five, I'll list them out here real quick.
Myke: So, Platinum Preppy, I have it number one.
Brad: Number two is the Pilot Kakuno.
Myke: This is the existing list, or is this the new list?
Brad: No, no, no.
Myke: This will be the upcoming new list.
Myke: Can I read the old list?
Brad: Read the old list first.
Myke: Yeah, there's only like one, there's two changes, I think, actually.
Brad: The old list was number one, the Platinum Preppy.
Brad: Number two, the Pilot Metropolitan.
Myke: Number three, the Pilot Kakuno.
Myke: Number four, the Cafeco Perkyo.
Brad: What is Perkyo German for, do you think?
Myke: And five.
Myke: I am definitely not going to say.
Myke: And five, the Feather Castell Grim.
Myke: So, the new list is number one, Platinum Preppy.
Myke: Number two, Pilot Kakuno.
Brad: Number three, Cafeco Perkyo.
Brad: Number four, Platinum Prefonte.
Myke: And number five, Pilot Explorer.
Brad: So, a couple of things here.
Myke: And so, I shared this with Panatic members this past weekend.
Myke: Got some feedback on it.
Myke: Two bits of feedback to mention from that is number one, and I agree with this sentiment.
Brad: That the top five fountain pens for beginners list should start and stop with the Platinum Preppy.
Brad: And that should be its own list, and then everything else.
Brad: That's how, this person that wrote in, they said, that's how I feel about how much that pen for beginners is such the right decision.
Brad: And everything else should be considered after you use the Preppy and see if you like fountain pens.
Myke: And like, I don't disagree with that at all.
Myke: So, it's just the Preppy is not stylistically interesting to a lot of people.
Brad: But it's $7.
Brad: It's $7.
Myke: Like, I agree with the sentiment of that.
Myke: I think it's number one, and then everything else is a different discussion was the concept there.
Brad: Yeah, I agree with that.
Myke: None of these other pens are even close to this one in price, right?
Brad: Right.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: Like, the next one is almost double.
Brad: And then everything.
Brad: Well, the Prefonte, we're going to, like, I'm going to talk about the Prefonte.
Brad: The Prefonte is probably the second cheapest.
Myke: I'm not familiar with this one.
Brad: It's basically your stylistically upgraded Preppy.
Brad: So, where they take, where the Preppy has, like, the big, like, label, Preppy, you know, on there and all the details on there.
Brad: On the barrel, the Prefonte is just, like, green translucent barrel, red translucent barrel.
Brad: You know, something like that.
Myke: Oh, I know this pen.
Brad: A lot more cleaner design.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: I know this pen.
Brad: But it doesn't get a lot of love.
Myke: Yeah.
Myke: It doesn't get talked about a lot.
Brad: I think Preppy just is a better name.
Myke: It's a better brand, right?
Myke: Mm-hmm.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: And I think that maybe sells it for people, keeps it in their brains.
Myke: Yeah, they throw the Preppy on the countertop in, like, one of those, like, countertop displays, right?
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: Like, it's just so good.
Brad: It's so good.
Myke: The other feedback I got was, how would the lists be different if you could only use one brand per list, right?
Brad: Platinum.
Myke: I have Platinum on here twice and Pilot on here twice.
Brad: And I don't think I would ever do that.
Myke: I'm questioning myself.
Brad: Because it just wouldn't be correct.
Myke: I don't think that's a fair limitation when I'm trying to answer the top five fountain pens for beginners.
Brad: Well, I mean, it's a thing you can do.
Brad: Sure.
Brad: It could be a rule set.
Brad: But now we're adding an unnecessary, like, nothing is helped by doing that, right?
Myke: Yeah.
Myke: I agree.
Brad: Like, then I'm not giving you the five.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: What would my five recommendations be?
Myke: Now we're kind of playing a game, which is also fine.
Brad: But that's...
Myke: Yes.
Brad: So I could...
Myke: Now we're putting, like, game rules on it rather than actually doing the job that this list provides.
Brad: Yes.
Myke: So, like, yes, I am personally interested in doing that.
Brad: But I wouldn't do that for this list because I don't think it would make the most accurate version of the list, in my opinion.
Myke: Right?
Brad: This is all opinionated stuff, even though these are recommendations and not personal preferences, which is a part of the deal.
Myke: So the main question with the current list versus the old list is the Pilot Metropolitan.
Myke: And I think the Pilot Metropolitan at points over the years has been number one on this list, no worse than number two, which is what it was recently.
Myke: And now I've taken it off, and I think I have to justify why.
Myke: And if the argument is that someone thinks it should be number one on this list, I can't really argue with that.
Myke: Like, I think it's kind of, like, the most feels like a traditional fountain pen, beginner fountain pen.
Brad: Right?
Brad: It's the only...
Myke: There's no pen on this list that is a metal barrel.
Myke: And the Pilot Metropolitan is.
Myke: It's a brass barrel.
Myke: So it gives it a weight and a feel that meets the expectations for people when they pick up a fountain pen, as opposed to picking up a light, airy, platinum preppy, or pre-fonte, something like that.
Brad: All of these other pens are, you know, plastic-based.
Myke: So, like, yeah, if you want to put Metro at number one, like, I think that's fine.
Myke: But what I've been noticing, and why I chose to drop it for now, it would probably be number six on my list, to be honest.
Myke: The three out of six being Pilots, which, like, wouldn't be wrong at all.
Myke: I'm not sure what Pilot's doing with the Metropolitan.
Myke: It seems like it's been put to sleep as far as modernization.
Myke: Even though it was a modern pen when it came out, it's still considered a modern pen.
Myke: They still sell it everywhere.
Myke: They haven't put any emphasis behind it for a couple of years now.
Myke: There's been no new models, no new looks.
Brad: Where the Kakuno and the Explorer are both Pilot products that are getting more love and attention.
Myke: And I would just be hesitant.
Myke: This is a technical, technicalities question for me, for me choosing to do this.
Brad: Because the Metropolitan still exists, and it's still widely available.
Brad: And I think it's probably one of the best pens for beginners.
Myke: I just don't know if Pilot's going to continue doing it.
Myke: And that's just an assumption by me.
Myke: Like, it's such a popular pen.
Myke: But the other problem with the Metropolitan is it also went from $15 to $25.
Myke: Like, in a pretty quick time frame.
Brad: The Metropolitan used to be an easy choice for number one or two on this list when it was under $15.
Brad: And now it's over $25.
Brad: Now, the Explorer is a plastic barrel.
Brad: And it's also the same price as the Metropolitan.
Brad: Which is kind of a limiting factor for a beginner fountain pen.
Brad: I think $25 might be too much for, like, a beginner fountain pen.
Brad: But if you're going to buy it for someone else, that might be a good option.
Brad: So, I don't know.
Brad: It'll be interesting to see.
Myke: I wonder if, like, the Metropolitan continues to exist.
Myke: But they keep, like, I don't know, maybe the price keeps moving up.
Brad: And, like, Evan in the chat saying, like, the cost between, like, plastic and brass barrels, you know,
Myke: just could be that difference why the Metropolitan's not really getting any love
Myke: while they're continuing to work on the Kakuno and Explorer.
Brad: Sure.
Myke: So, yeah.
Brad: I love this list.
Myke: Like, I'm very happy with these five pens.
Brad: You know, and I could argue some more about them.
Myke: But, like, the Faber-Castell grip, like, I think that was an easy exclusion.
Brad: I think that goes back into the list with, I don't know, the Pelican Twist and some of these other, like,
Brad: interesting school pens or other brands' pens that are fine.
Myke: But when you're paying, like, the same $15 or $20, I would take every one of these other pens on the list before.
Myke: I would recommend every other pen on this list.
Brad: Just from a usage and enjoyment perspective, if you're using this pen for the first time,
Brad: is it going to be easy to use and is it going to be nice to hold and is it going to work well?
Brad: And I think that is the answer for all of these pens.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: But the preppy, I don't see it, like, leaving that spot for a long time.
Myke: All right.
Brad: This episode is also brought to you by our friends over at Factor.
Myke: I don't know about you, but fall always feels like a bit of a time for a reset.
Myke: You know, people are getting back into busier routines.
Myke: Kids are going back to school.
Myke: Then when you add into that the shorter days, finding time to cook can be tough.
Brad: And that's why so many people love Factor, because their chef-prepped, dietician-approved meals
Brad: make it easy to stay on track and enjoy something comforting and delicious,
Brad: no matter how hectic your season gets.
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Brad: You can choose from a wider selection of weekly meal options,
Brad: including premium seafood choices like salmon and shrimp at no extra cost.
Brad: You can support your wellness goals, too.
Brad: You can enjoy GLP-1-friendly meals and new Mediterranean diet options
Brad: packed with protein and good-for-you fats.
Brad: You can savor those global flavors for the first time,
Brad: try Asian-inspired meals with bold flavors influenced by China, Thailand, and more.
Brad: From more choices to better nutrition,
Brad: 97% of customers say that Factor helped them live a healthier life.
Brad: You'll feel the difference no matter your routine.
Brad: Brad, does Factor fit into your routine?
Myke: It does, and we have unlocked a new usage for Factor, Myke.
Myke: So my daughter is a college student.
Myke: She's away at school, and she's only about an hour away,
Myke: so she comes home pretty frequently.
Myke: And just this past weekend, you know, she's living in an apartment,
Myke: has to cook for herself, go grocery shopping.
Myke: She's like, hey, do you have any of those Factor meals that I can take?
Myke: Because, like, she knows they're good.
Myke: She's eating them when I've gotten them here, eating them at the house.
Brad: And she's like, can I take any of these with me?
Myke: I was like, well, no.
Myke: But I can order you some and let you pick out, like, what meals she wants.
Brad: Because she likes different things than I do.
Brad: And she's like, oh, okay.
Myke: Because that would be good for her.
Myke: Like, if she's in class all day, she'll run home to the apartment for lunch
Myke: and then go back to class.
Myke: And, like, that's the perfect thing to use Factor for, you know,
Myke: two minutes in the microwave, have a great meal,
Myke: and then get back to it.
Brad: So I thought I was actually kind of cracking up.
Brad: And she's like, hey.
Brad: And I was like, you know what?
Brad: That's a really good idea.
Brad: So we're going to work on that for her coming up soon.
Brad: You can eat smart at factomeals.com slash penaddict50off
Brad: and use the code penaddict50off to get 50% off your first box
Brad: plus free breakfast for a year.
Brad: That's the code penaddict50off at factomeals.com
Brad: to get 50% off plus free breakfast for a year.
Brad: Get delicious, ready-to-eat meals delivered with Factor.
Brad: The offer is only valid for new Factor customers
Brad: with code and qualifying or to renewing subscription purchase.
Myke: Our thanks to Factor for their support of this show and relay.
Brad: All right, Myke.
Brad: Last week we talked about the Montblanc digital paper
Brad: and its relation to the Remarkable tablet.
Brad: I guess that was two weeks ago,
Brad: and then last week we said we'll follow up on this
Brad: because now you have a Remarkable,
Myke: and I wanted to get you to just talk on that a little bit.
Brad: Yeah, so I have the Remarkable Paper Pro Move.
Brad: Remarkable.
Brad: Titan.
Brad: Remarkable Paper Pro Move.
Brad: Too many words.
Brad: Paper Pro Move.
Brad: Titan.
Myke: They have a lot of products.
Myke: Yeah, it's Titan because it's the smallest one.
Brad: This product was interesting to me.
Brad: I mean, the Remarkable has always been interesting to me.
Myke: We've spoken about it on the show before,
Brad: and I've never done it because I couldn't imagine
Brad: that I would really use it to justify the price,
Brad: but I've always been interested.
Myke: And then when they brought up the little one,
Myke: it's still expensive, but it's less expensive,
Brad: and I figure, you know, maybe I could use something like this
Myke: because it could fit into different places.
Brad: So I'll say from a hardware perspective,
Brad: it feels really nice and premium.
Myke: I would say it is heavier than I would want it to be
Myke: for what this product ostensibly is.
Myke: I would have expected it to feel kind of like as heavy as a Kindle,
Brad: but especially once you put the cover on it,
Brad: which to me feels like a bit of a must.
Myke: I don't know.
Myke: Like, it's not heavy,
Myke: but I was expecting it to feel lighter in my hands.
Brad: But it's built well.
Myke: It's good hardware, right?
Brad: Like, they know what they're doing at this point.
Myke: I would say their bezel is a bit big too.
Myke: Again, like, you're actually losing quite a lot of space
Myke: on this product to the bezel,
Myke: which is not great.
Myke: Is that an e-ink screen thing?
Brad: Because most of the Kindles have that as well, right?
Myke: It's like a, I don't know,
Brad: is that like a hardware almost like requirement
Brad: for how these things work?
Myke: I don't know.
Myke: This is not something I know.
Myke: I don't know either.
Brad: But why don't we...
Brad: But you see the other e-inks have that width around there.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: So we're going to be kind to make the assumption, right?
Myke: That it kind of does that.
Brad: The user experience of this product is really interesting
Brad: because it is e-ink, right?
Brad: It is a touchscreen.
Brad: And I also have one of their pens.
Brad: The pens feel like kind of a must with this product.
Myke: I don't know who's using this product about a pen,
Myke: but you have to buy one.
Brad: They have two options,
Brad: and I went with the more expensive one,
Myke: which has more features in it,
Brad: like pressure and tilt and that kind of stuff.
Myke: The UI itself,
Brad: it is very focused and pretty good,
Myke: but you don't have to use it too much
Myke: for it to feel like it's getting stuck, like slow.
Brad: I think part of the problem for this is the e-ink, right?
Myke: Once you're doing enough with the device,
Brad: you're kind of swiping around and stuff like that.
Myke: Sometimes you may request an action,
Myke: and it doesn't happen immediately,
Brad: but it's because it's refreshing the page,
Myke: and that can kind of make it feel slow.
Brad: You really have to kind of get your head into this mode.
Myke: And it's interesting because what they have built feels like a tablet,
Brad: right?
Brad: Like an iPad,
Brad: like an Android tablet.
Myke: You know,
Brad: in that you're tapping around,
Myke: you know,
Brad: you've got books,
Myke: you've got search,
Myke: you've got a keyboard,
Myke: you know,
Myke: you've got all the stuff that you'd assume.
Brad: The problem is none of that works as responsibly as it does in the other
Brad: products that you're used to.
Brad: So there is a little bit of like,
Brad: you've got to break your mind out here.
Myke: Essentially,
Brad: the Remarkable is an e-ink note-taking tablet.
Myke: Now,
Brad: it does a bunch of other things.
Brad: Like you can put PDFs on here,
Brad: you can put ePubs on here,
Brad: and you can mark them up,
Brad: you can read them,
Brad: you can use it as an e-reader if you want to.
Myke: I have not tried those features very much yet,
Myke: so I don't realistically know how good a job it does with that.
Brad: But this is,
Myke: if you want an e-reader,
Myke: don't get this.
Myke: If you want an e-reader that you can mark up on,
Myke: get the Kindle one that they have.
Brad: Right?
Brad: With the pen.
Myke: Like that feels like...
Myke: Oh,
Myke: do they have one?
Brad: Yeah,
Brad: there is a Kindle with a pen now.
Myke: Okay.
Brad: They actually just announced the Kindle,
Brad: they're one that you can mark up as color.
Brad: Because this,
Myke: something I didn't mention,
Brad: this product has color options.
Brad: So you can choose the color of your pen,
Myke: and you can write with it.
Brad: And it will show in a bunch of different colors.
Myke: I'll get to that in a minute,
Myke: because there's some caveats to that.
Myke: Okay.
Myke: So like,
Myke: you know,
Myke: but this,
Myke: so this product really is for writing.
Brad: Like that's what it was,
Myke: that's what it's for.
Brad: Right?
Myke: With that is,
Brad: is,
Myke: is an interesting,
Brad: the way it works is interesting.
Myke: So,
Brad: you know,
Brad: you,
Brad: you can write along and you know,
Myke: you're writing and,
Brad: and it,
Myke: and it's,
Myke: it's not doing the,
Brad: the e-ink refresh thing very frequently,
Brad: which I think is quite impressive.
Myke: Every now and again,
Brad: the page will refresh,
Myke: you know,
Brad: like where it does the flashing.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: Well,
Myke: when you're in the writing mode.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: And especially like,
Brad: you know,
Brad: often when you tap a menu of some kind,
Brad: it will do it,
Brad: but not always.
Brad: Like it's,
Myke: it's,
Brad: it's able to not have to do it too much for there not to be too much ghosting.
Myke: Like,
Brad: you know,
Myke: I think this is the thing that they've clearly worked out very well.
Brad: Like,
Brad: you know,
Brad: how much of the page do they need to flash at any one point and that kind of stuff.
Myke: Like they've,
Myke: they've clearly worked that part out with a lot of,
Myke: trial and error,
Brad: but the,
Myke: the actual writing experience is,
Myke: is good,
Brad: but it,
Myke: and it is responsive.
Brad: Like you're writing,
Myke: it's responsive,
Brad: but what it is not is iPad level of responsive.
Myke: Right.
Myke: So you can,
Myke: again,
Myke: you have to,
Myke: you have to kind of like temper your expectation.
Myke: Like often when I'm writing on this device,
Myke: I can see the device is catching up with me.
Brad: You know,
Brad: like I'll write a word and I can see that it is rendering kind of behind where my pen
Brad: is not always.
Brad: And that's the other odd thing about this stuff.
Myke: Well,
Brad: that is an odd thing about the devices.
Myke: Sometimes it feels like it do it immediately.
Myke: And sometimes it feels like it's a little bit delayed.
Myke: And again,
Brad: I think that is all to do with the ink kind of refreshing and kind of how they manage
Brad: that system.
Brad: But it feels like my handwriting.
Myke: It does a great job of rendering my handwriting correctly.
Myke: Like it's,
Myke: it looks like I've written with a pen and paper.
Brad: They have a text based conversion system,
Myke: you know,
Brad: so you can take what you've written and turn it to text.
Myke: I would actually say on some further testing,
Brad: it does a decent job here.
Myke: Now,
Brad: it makes mistakes.
Myke: It makes lots of mistakes,
Myke: but I don't expect,
Myke: I expect it to do that based on the way that I can,
Brad: my handwriting looks like I don't think a human would be able to accurately
Myke: transcribe my handwriting all the time.
Myke: Right.
Myke: Like,
Myke: it does a decent enough job.
Brad: My feeling would be if you were the type of person where you wanted to use
Brad: this product and then always do OCR,
Brad: you would have to write on it very clearly.
Myke: Okay.
Myke: You know,
Brad: like you can't just like let rip and just write the way you would write on a
Brad: piece of paper because it's not going to get everything.
Myke: And editing text on this is not,
Myke: is not really the experience that I want to be doing.
Myke: It's too slow for that.
Myke: I want apps.
Myke: So,
Myke: okay.
Myke: The thing about this device,
Myke: it has some integrations.
Brad: It doesn't have what I want.
Brad: Right.
Myke: Like I want to get,
Brad: I just want to search my Dropbox here.
Brad: I can't do that.
Myke: Oh,
Myke: really?
Brad: Like they,
Brad: I don't think so,
Myke: at least not in the way that I would want.
Brad: I have yet like,
Brad: so they have an integrations.
Brad: So you can,
Brad: you can integrate with Google drive,
Brad: Dropbox and one drive.
Brad: And there's like ways that you do this and you do it with their syncing
Brad: stuff.
Myke: And I haven't looked into it too much,
Myke: but what I mean is like,
Myke: I just want the experience that I'm used to from Android and iOS.
Myke: Like I just opened the app that I know,
Myke: get what I need.
Myke: Right.
Brad: So something like the,
Brad: the books products,
Brad: you familiar with these?
Myke: Yes.
Brad: That would be that experience where it is E Ink,
Brad: but with Android behind it.
Myke: So like,
Brad: I'm going to get the experience that I'm used to in any of the apps that I'm
Brad: using without needing to rely on kind of like the way that remarkable sync
Brad: stuff back,
Brad: goes and forwards.
Myke: So like they,
Brad: they have integrations with these providers,
Brad: but I want the apps that I'm used to,
Brad: because that is just the experience that I'm used to.
Brad: Similarly,
Myke: right?
Brad: Like why can't I open a Kindle book?
Brad: Like I know why I can't,
Brad: but that's kind of the thing that I think about,
Myke: right?
Myke: That is the,
Myke: the issue with a,
Myke: with a product like this.
Myke: And I would say from remarkable perspective,
Myke: they've at least been around long enough that they have developed their
Myke: operating system and like a focus on things that are important.
Brad: But I feel like you would not be able to launch this product today from
Myke: nothing and,
Brad: and do it the way that they're doing it because I just think people's
Myke: expectations will be different.
Myke: And I,
Myke: and I would expect a lot of remarkable people,
Myke: a lot of remarkable customers by their product,
Myke: just naturally assuming that they will be able to access Microsoft teams,
Myke: you know,
Myke: to send stuff around,
Brad: but they can't,
Myke: right?
Myke: You can send things in Slack,
Myke: but that is like a purposeful thing that they have built with their API.
Brad: Like,
Brad: it's just,
Brad: they have integrations,
Myke: but they don't have everything you're going to want.
Myke: And that can make stuff like getting documents onto this trickier than you
Myke: would like and stuff like that.
Brad: Like it requires,
Myke: that seems like the,
Brad: that seems like the best thing about this.
Myke: Like if you're in a heavy,
Brad: like document based job where you need to like read and annotate and share back
Brad: and forth,
Brad: like that's where I think this product would shine or you'd want it to shine.
Myke: Like,
Myke: I'm trying to think about the use cases for this.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: Like I'm looking,
Brad: there is,
Myke: they make an app,
Myke: right?
Myke: And the app on other devices will sync stuff backwards and forwards.
Myke: So like you can,
Myke: you know,
Myke: I have a remarkable app on my iPhone and I can get my notes there and I can also
Myke: upload things to my remarkable tablet from there.
Myke: So that's,
Brad: it's pretty nice.
Myke: Right.
Brad: But it's,
Myke: I don't know,
Brad: there's just something for me where it's like,
Myke: oh,
Brad: this isn't necessarily working the way that I'm used to now.
Myke: But I also think that that for a lot of people would actually be a selling
Brad: point,
Myke: right?
Brad: That like,
Myke: this is a note taking device.
Myke: I'm not getting lost in candy crush or whatever,
Myke: you know?
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: Like those,
Brad: like the standalone word processors that I've seen,
Brad: like the mini word processors,
Brad: like just for writing,
Myke: right?
Brad: Something like that.
Myke: So what I'm wondering is,
Brad: so like they have these templates I'm looking at,
Myke: that just like the,
Myke: the products,
Myke: right?
Brad: For that are,
Myke: that's on the remarkable and they have like to-do lists and planners.
Myke: Have you looked at any of that stuff?
Myke: Like,
Brad: yeah,
Myke: I'm just curious,
Brad: like all that stuff.
Myke: It's still like,
Brad: I say that and I'm thinking like,
Myke: oh,
Brad: that could be a good use,
Myke: but then it just lives there.
Brad: Right.
Myke: Like it's,
Brad: it's,
Myke: it's syncing with like Google calendar or something like that.
Myke: Like,
Brad: yeah,
Myke: like I'm,
Myke: I don't know if I'm lost in the sauce on,
Myke: on anything,
Myke: but like writing,
Brad: editing,
Myke: modifying text,
Brad: which is,
Myke: which is okay.
Brad: Like,
Myke: which is okay.
Brad: It is the weird thing about this,
Myke: which you are hitting on one of the,
Myke: one of the,
Myke: the kind of sticking points of the remarkable in general,
Brad: which is,
Myke: this is a device that feels like a computer,
Brad: right?
Myke: But it doesn't do the things that computer devices do.
Brad: Right.
Myke: So you're right.
Brad: You would do your,
Myke: write your to-do list on here.
Brad: Great.
Myke: It's just like writing a to-do list on paper.
Myke: It's just like writing a to-do list on paper.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: Right.
Myke: You know what I mean?
Brad: Like,
Myke: so if I need the list,
Brad: the paper's coming with me.
Myke: Correct.
Brad: Yes.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: Which is fine.
Myke: You just have to buy into,
Brad: like you,
Myke: you have to be considerate of,
Brad: of that.
Brad: Like if you're using it for X,
Brad: like,
Brad: you know,
Brad: what is the best way I can do X on this?
Brad: And it is the remarkable answer.
Myke: So I will say I,
Myke: the format is interesting to me.
Brad: Like I do like this size,
Myke: like,
Brad: but I'm wondering if like the back to the bezel,
Myke: like the size is one thing,
Myke: the usable space is a different thing.
Brad: There is not enough usable space on this device for me.
Myke: Okay.
Myke: Okay.
Brad: For the amount of space that it requires on my desk.
Myke: I think I would be happier with the bigger one,
Brad: even though I wouldn't use it enough.
Myke: Yeah.
Myke: So just for our analog listeners here,
Myke: I'm looking at the size dimensions of the paper pro move.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: And it's about the size of a traveler's notebook,
Brad: but like an inch shorter in height.
Myke: Yeah.
Myke: So this is a 7.7 by 4.24 inches is the remarkable,
Myke: the,
Brad: the small one that Myke's talking about.
Myke: And the travelers full size is 8.3 inches,
Brad: by 4.3 inches.
Myke: So similar width and about an inch shorter in height,
Brad: but then minus the bezel.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: Dimension.
Myke: So like,
Brad: that's probably another close to an inch.
Myke: That's those are,
Brad: that's probably like three quarters total.
Myke: Less.
Brad: They say the display is 7.3 inches.
Myke: That's what they say.
Brad: Okay.
Myke: So 0.4.
Brad: Yeah.
Myke: Okay.
Myke: Definitely the difference.
Myke: Okay.
Brad: So yeah,
Brad: it's like a,
Brad: it's basically a rectangular device.
Myke: You're probably not using.
Myke: Does it,
Myke: do you use it in horizontal?
Myke: Can you only use,
Brad: you can use in this vertical.
Myke: Okay.
Myke: You can use it horizontal.
Brad: And it has an accelerometer in it.
Brad: So it does that automatically.
Myke: Okay.
Brad: And my favorite thing about this device though,
Brad: is it has lots of like pen types,
Myke: you know,
Myke: you've got fine liners and highlighters.
Myke: And that's a cool thing with the color options.
Brad: Now,
Myke: like you can,
Brad: you can do actual highlighting of text in color.
Brad: It has like a brush.
Brad: It has a couple of brush pens,
Brad: fountain pens,
Brad: felt markers,
Brad: thin thickness.
Brad: And they have nine colors,
Brad: black,
Brad: gray,
Myke: white,
Brad: blue,
Brad: red,
Brad: green,
Brad: yellow,
Brad: cyan,
Brad: and magenta.
Myke: The thing about the color is weird though.
Brad: Like let's say you,
Myke: let me say right now,
Myke: right?
Brad: I'm going to pick my marker and I'm going to pick red.
Myke: When I start writing,
Myke: it's,
Myke: it's not red.
Myke: It like starts off black and then it flashes in correctly.
Myke: Okay.
Myke: This is just the way this stuff works.
Myke: Like you're not actually writing in the color.
Myke: It has to then flash it to render it.
Myke: Like this is just the way this technology works right now.
Brad: This is not what it does with black.
Brad: Like if you're writing in black,
Brad: it just writes in black.
Brad: It doesn't do the flash to render afterwards.
Myke: Okay.
Myke: So this is just like a new,
Myke: this is just a quirk of the new technology that allows for color.
Myke: This is a pretty recent thing.
Myke: So you see it.
Myke: So you see what you're writing,
Brad: but it doesn't render in the color until you're done.
Myke: Okay.
Brad: Interesting.
Myke: Okay.
Myke: So yeah,
Brad: you would,
Brad: you would start writing something.
Brad: You choose blue,
Myke: start writing and it's written in black.
Myke: And then the black gets replaced with the blue kind of thing.
Brad: Obviously one of the big benefits of a product like this is the battery life
Myke: will be great.
Myke: And you can kind of just leave the,
Myke: you leave the screen on with your notes in front of you,
Myke: right?
Myke: And it's just sitting there not doing anything because the battery,
Brad: this does have a backlight.
Brad: So that is available to you if,
Brad: if you need it.
Myke: I need more time with this product than I have spent.
Brad: Like I've gone up and down in my usage of it.
Myke: Um,
Myke: it's a nice scribble device,
Myke: especially with the colors and the different pens and stuff.
Myke: Like it's like nice for scribbling.
Myke: It's absolutely not worth that.
Brad: Right.
Brad: Like money wise,
Brad: like to,
Myke: to do that.
Brad: Um,
Myke: I would like,
Myke: this is not a product that I particularly want personally.
Brad: Like I,
Brad: I can't find in this anything that is better than the other tools that I use.
Brad: Like realistically,
Brad: like,
Brad: right.
Myke: I,
Myke: yeah,
Brad: the listening to you and looking at this,
Myke: I think this is,
Brad: I can see this being for like a very hardcore user of very specific things.
Brad: And I bet it's probably pretty awesome for like some like super hardcore
Brad: application,
Brad: application of the technology to,
Myke: you know,
Myke: manage a lot of documents,
Myke: a lot of texts.
Myke: Once you figure out the systems and getting everything going and being able to
Myke: see and access all this stuff and like really working through that.
Brad: And then nothing else.
Myke: Like,
Brad: I don't see this as like a passive secondary device or that much.
Myke: Yeah.
Myke: Um,
Myke: you know,
Brad: we,
Myke: we did get some feedback on this.
Myke: Like EB,
Brad: you know,
Brad: makes a good point.
Myke: Says,
Myke: I use my remarkable pro move as my jotter pad next to my keyboard.
Myke: I was tired of hunting through sticky notes,
Myke: old scribbled on envelopes and random paper bits to find some brilliant idea I
Myke: had or critical to do item.
Myke: This makes it easy to organize and I'll never lose them.
Myke: Except the pro move is so small.
Myke: I lost it in my desk drawer for a week.
Brad: So,
Myke: well,
Myke: that's a secondary problem,
Myke: but that,
Myke: that is the thing,
Myke: right?
Brad: Like if you are the type of person that wants a notebook and you are like,
Brad: you believe,
Brad: or it's true.
Myke: It's like,
Brad: it's important to you that you never lose a note you have written.
Brad: There is nothing better than this.
Myke: Right.
Myke: Cause that,
Brad: I mean,
Myke: that's papers.
Brad: Fatal flaw is indexing and searching.
Myke: Right.
Myke: And you can keep it all,
Myke: but it is physically large.
Brad: Right.
Myke: And you are going to be dealing with the note paper forever,
Brad: you know?
Myke: Mm hmm.
Myke: So,
Brad: yeah.
Myke: This is good stuff.
Brad: I appreciate you going through all this.
Myke: Like,
Myke: I think it's interesting.
Brad: I think I'm more positive on it.
Myke: now than my first like hour of it.
Brad: Sure.
Myke: but it,
Brad: this to me,
Myke: like I,
Brad: look,
Myke: I,
Brad: I make products that compete with this,
Myke: right?
Brad: Right.
Myke: The,
Brad: the products that I make compete with this product specifically,
Myke: right?
Brad: Like,
Myke: right.
Myke: It's always with you.
Myke: It's always on your desk and it's supposed to look good in meetings.
Brad: It's like exactly what my product stuff,
Myke: like range competes with.
Brad: I would never choose this over my products.
Myke: Like I just wouldn't write,
Myke: but that's my taste,
Myke: which is why I make the things that I make.
Myke: But for me,
Myke: like,
Myke: again,
Myke: it's like everybody who listens to the show knows this.
Myke: No matter what they say,
Myke: this does not feel like writing on pen with pen and paper.
Brad: It does not.
Myke: And nothing ever will.
Brad: No one.
Myke: Like you cannot replicate it because it's a screen.
Brad: Like,
Myke: and there will always be a screen.
Myke: It's just not ever going to feel right.
Brad: Like,
Brad: like that,
Myke: but it's,
Myke: it's,
Myke: it's interesting.
Brad: I think for me,
Brad: like the thing that is maybe the most interesting about this product is the
Brad: fact that it has the color too.
Brad: I just think that that is a nice addition.
Brad: And that's part of their pro series is that they used to just all be black and
Brad: white and you can still get the black and white ones,
Brad: but the pro ones have the color.
Myke: So maybe more to come on this in the future.
Brad: Okay.
Myke: Yeah.
Brad: Good stuff.
Myke: Good stuff.
Brad: No,
Myke: I definitely appreciate the,
Brad: that we,
Myke: we've always had questions about this from their,
Brad: from their launch.
Myke: And,
Brad: you know,
Myke: I would love to hear from people how they use it because I can see like a
Brad: very intense use case where this is just awesome.
Brad: Awesome.
Brad: Like I could see that,
Myke: but I just think it's so specific that it's not like a universal usage
Myke: device that a lot of people would enjoy.
Brad: So yeah,
Myke: good stuff.
Myke: I appreciate it.
Myke: Pleasure.
Myke: If you would like to send in that followup or feedback,
Myke: you can go to penaddictfeedback.com and you can send it into us there.
Myke: I'd like to thank Squarespace,
Myke: Enigma Stationary and Factor for their support of this week's episode.
Brad: If you want to find Brad online,
Brad: go to penaddict.com,
Brad: spokedesign.com,
Brad: twitch.tv slash penaddict.
Brad: And you'll find Brad as penaddict on all of your social media platforms.
Myke: If you would like to find the products that I make,
Myke: you can go to cortexbrand.com.
Myke: You can find me here on relay.
Myke: You can go to relay.fm to find this show and many more.
Myke: And you can read my writing over at theenthusiast.net.
Myke: We'll be back next week.
Myke: Until then,
Myke: say goodbye,
Brad: Brad.
Myke: Goodbye,
Brad: Titan.

@@ Line 216: / Line 216: @@
 * Myke: That's what I was going to ask you.
 * Brad: I'm sitting next to it, uh, a sidekick pocket, the line version and the sailor 1911 King of
-* Brad: Penn Royal Tangerine.
+* Brad: Pen Royal Tangerine.
 * Myke: Oh, that's a good one.
 * Brad: Yeah.
 * Brad: That's a good one.
 * Myke: I have, uh, I have owned that at one point in time and decided I didn't need like, I think
-* Myke: at the time I had like four King of Penns.
+* Myke: at the time I had like four King of Pens.
 * Myke: I think I'm down to two.
 * Brad: So, which is a more, more stable area for me to be.