The Pen Addict 456/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	456
Title:	Citrus, Orange, and Tangerine Esq.
Release Date:	April 8th, 2021
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 456
Audio File:	Audio Episode 456
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 456
Length:	7575 min <br />1.25 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 456, and today's show is brought to you by Harry's Pen Chalet and ExpressVPN. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad.

Brad: Hey Myke Hurley, how are you today?

Myke: I'm fine and downy, my friend. How are you?

Brad: I'm good. I feel a little bit lost, not just because we're a day behind in recording, but I feel like I'm doing follow-up from like two weeks ago. Because last week's episode was just, we're going to go with Choc-a-Block, Myke. It was a very full, fun episode and this one is too, but there was like two or three items I didn't even get to last week that I want to make sure we get to today. But before that, just want to make sure you're good. Everything's good with you?

Myke: Yeah, I'm a little discombobulated because we were recording, as you say, a day late, but yep, everything's fine.

Brad: It does make for a weird schedule.

Discombulation

Myke: Not everything all over the place. It's very weird. It's very weird. And just such a small change can make such a big difference. Did you have a nice break?

Brad: I did. I did. I took basically, I was gone for like five days, two days of travel, but like three days of just doing nothing. Like it was nice. Like, so I felt, I was a little worried when it came time to make these show notes yesterday. I was like, I'm not like dialed in. Like you gotta, you gotta stay dialed into the pin world, Myke, and know what's going on.

Myke: It's that fast moving.

Brad: Fast moving. But then by the time I started writing, I was like, oh yeah, like I could, I got this. I'm keeping up with everything pretty, pretty well. So let's, let's get straight into the, the, the followup.

Brad: Apple boom. Gotcha. They got you. It's official, Myke. We knew, well, some, some of us knew that this was probably an April fool's joke on their new ink bottles and ink names and ink product. And the fancy decanter that they had, uh, some of us, Myke knew that it was probably an April fool's joke. So how did you feel when they actually, um, came, came clean with this?

Myke: Well, I mean, at that point I'd resign myself to knowing that it was an April fool's, right? You know, cause it, after it had been pointed out to me, it became pretty obvious. Uh, I still, still frustrated about it. Pure, pure marketing stunt, right? So, um, as I said before though, it's not, it's not the April fools that bothers me. It's when they did it, which was not on April 1st. That's what continues to bother me.

Brad: I'll have to follow, I'll have to follow up on that. I didn't, I didn't have time to actually follow up to see if there's any like special Dutch rules that we needed to, to check into. I said I was going to do that. So, uh, good job by the Apple boom team. Um, of course now the, the feedback was so great as anticipated. Hey, maybe they will make their own ink. The, the only, the only idea, like I said, is if they do, people are going to be yelling for this bottle and they're not going to get it. Are they?

Myke: Unless they want to pay a lot of money for it.

Brad: Yeah. That could be the special edition, right? Like they'll do 10 bottles of that and you'll have to pay $200 for that bottle. But then the regular bottle will be like $20.

Myke: Right. Wasn't there a company that did a really ornate bottle like this? Like, and it was like a thing and they were like wax sealed and all that kind of nonsense. I know I'm remembering something, but I can't remember who it was now.

Brad: Yeah. There was a wax seal. Was it Cheo Bon? That would have been my first guess. I would put them up to it, right? They would be the ones that could do this because they already have that premium line, right?

Myke: I think it was. And just to give you a bit of real time follow up from Marlies is one of the mods in our discord who is Dutch. There are no such rule. There are no like particular Dutch rules that would be in their favor at Applebaum for the travesty that they committed.

Brad: See, I would disagree. If there are no rules, then they're playing within the rules.

Myke: No, because the internationally accepted rules of April falls is that not only happens on April 1st, but in April. They did an April fall in March. So, if they just want to set a precedent for at any point during the year, they want to play a big trick on their customers, then go for it. But I also don't think that that was what they were going for. Gotcha.

Brad: Okay. I'll give you this one. I'll give up the ghost on this one.

Myke: Yeah, I won't let this one lie. So, you know, unless you really care about it, I wouldn't keep coming up with additional arguments. Yeah. Yeah.

Brad: Fair enough. I did settle another argument between, you know, two episodes ago and this episode, Myke, is I did send Caroline Weaver of CWPE, Caroline Weaver, Penzel Enterprises, a cease and desist about their use of orange on the new website. So, I would like to read the letter my attorney sent to them real quick.

Myke: This was Brad. Brad wrote this himself and he was so excited about it.

Brad: Are you sure? Are you sure? Yeah. I think this is... Dear Caroline, I would like to take this opportunity to discuss with you the usage of the color orange in your site redesign. In the online stationary realm, I am the current owner of all shades relating to and representing the color orange. Please see to it that all images and references to this color are removed from your site post haste. If not changed by April 1st, I will have no choice but to escalate this to my legal team at Citrus Orange and Tangerine Esquire for further guidance on how to resolve this matter. Thank you for your consideration. So, yeah, I guess I did write it.

Myke: I hope that your legal team doesn't try and get into the stationary realm at some point. They're going to be in a hot bother, aren't they?

Brad: They're in big trouble. Big trouble there. So, Caroline and I got a kick out of it. What was funny? She's like, you know, when you sent that, I had been testing out the shade of orange on the site and it was rendering differently on different browsers and different computers. So, Caroline actually did change the orange to a more CWPE accurate vermilion shade. So, I take this as a W for me, right? Like, she had to make a change to more accurately represent the color. I feel like this was a win for me. I have asked my law team of citrus orange tangerine to stand out.

Myke: I mean, what I would say is if you consider what has happened here to be a win for you, then I think that you deserve that win because this is amongst the smallest of victories.

Brad: I mean, I feel like I'm two for two in this episode so far, but I think some people might disagree. But I'm feeling good. So, I'm actually feeling better about the Emilio Braga notebooks that I got, which was the real impetus for me talking about CWPE a couple weeks ago. I wanted to get those notebooks. They're super fancy and nice and they're not that expensive. So, I got to test them out. I don't know that they're going to be fountain pen friendly notebooks necessarily, right? But I am pretty ecstatic with how they look and how they feel and how they're made. So, we'll do that. Third bit of follow-up. I talked with the new owners of Retro 51.

Myke: Okay. Is this different to the conversations you've had? Because I know you had a brief conversation before, right?

Email Chat

Brad: Well, we've had an email chat. Email. Okay. Right. So, we've done emails saying, hey, you know, here we are. You know, just wanted to say hi. Give us a couple months. Because we were talking about like wanting to talk with them, maybe interview somebody. And they're like, give us, you know, let us get settled in a little bit more. Because we contacted them like the day of or the day after the announcement. They wanted to get settled in. And what I wanted to do is just have like an introductory call. So, we set up a Zoom. There was five of us, myself. And then it was the new owners, which are Adam, Jeff, and Joe. And then Richard, which is, you know, Retro 51's long, long time designer. That's who I work with the most is Richard when I'm working on a product. Or if I have questions or need something. So, we all got on a Zoom, I don't know, a week ago or so. And I had no expectations going in. And like I said, this wasn't an interview. This wasn't anything. But hey, this is who we are. This is what we're doing. Kind of thing. Yeah. It's getting to know you session. And I thought it went really well. They are definitely all in on this. I felt like my curiosity is, and I think a lot of, for a lot of people, is what's going to change, right? New owners, let's see, you know, are they going to change things? And the feeling I got from talking to them is that there will be almost no change in what the outside world knows as Retro 51 is the feeling I got. They wanted to be a steward of the brand, right, of the existing brand and see it forward to continue being what it is right now and then continue that on. Not, you know, put their own stamp on it, right? Not say, hey, we're Adam, Jeff, and Joe, and this is our version of Retro 51. They want to take Retro 51 as it is, continue it on, continue the successes that they've had.

Brad: You know, one of the things they mentioned, which, you know, they didn't have any control of the number of launches last year, and they know that was far, far too much. So I think we'll see a more normal Retro 51 cycle going forward. I hope we do.

Myke: It kind of seemed like they were clearing out the old business, right? Yeah. The previous owners. Clearing the ledger. Settling all family business. As they would say.

Brad: Mm-hmm. So now I think they're in the position to move forward. You know, I think we'll see some work on some of the existing popular lineups that they have.

Brad: You know, I was, I've done a Retro 51 Panatic model for, what, four years in a row now? I think, and I was thinking about just skipping this year. Number one, because I'm busy, and number two, I was like wanting to see, let's just see how this goes, right? And now I'm more leaning back to, well, I've got a good idea for a pin that I want to make, so maybe I will work on that this year. So we'll see. But anyway.

Myke: Well, so when they're talking about the number of launches, are we talking overall all the launches from Retro 51 or what? Like.

Brad: Is there a difference? I might be missing your question.

Myke: Well, yeah, because like you doing a Retro 51 is super different to like them doing one or.

Brad: No, from Retro 51. Okay. I think those are two separate things. I see what you're saying. Yes.

Myke: So they're not going to like necessarily slow down on the store exclusives. The influencer pens, all that kind of stuff is probably going to remain. We'll take whatever business seems right. But when it comes down to like, here's a new one that we've got and it's at multiple places, that's what they're going to maybe calm down on.

Brad: I think that's a fair reading of the situation.

Myke: Okay. I mean, the thing is, though, like it is difficult to tell from the outside sometimes, like the difference between them. You know what I mean? Like it's hard to work out like which one is a Retro 51 model and which one is like the Goldspot model, the Pen Chalet model. You know, like it's going to be hard to pin that down.

Brad: Yeah, I agree with that. So it wasn't mentioned specifically that there was like a separation of that. My gut tells me more the stock versions of the releases. I don't know. Yeah, we'll have to see if the custom versions get metered at all. Like, I don't know. I didn't ask that specifically. But that's actually a good question I should follow up on. So I think that's fair, right? At what point do we turn away or at least hold or delay some of the business just to ensure that the overall brand itself is healthy, right?

Myke: Right. But then there's like the other question of if they're all selling out every time, then what's the harm? Right, right. That's the balance. That's the difficult balance to strike. It is. Did you ask them why they're called poppers? I didn't. I noticed this like on their account that they said like we got popper releases and I just have never gotten my head around that name.

Brad: To this day, I'm thoroughly confused on that whole situation.

Myke: It doesn't. That doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe they should just have like poppers and twisters, but they don't make the poppers anymore, which was the retractable ones. Like the click retractable ones.

Brad: Click ones, yeah. Their clicks were always a little rattly, so I'm okay with that.

Myke: I think they were using the Schmidt system. That's why. I would wager. Because I used the version of the Mark 1 with that system. Yeah. And it was also not nice to use. Yeah. Which is why Tom and Dan went down the vision quest that they did to design and custom manufacture their own knock for the Mark 1, which is I think the pen's major selling point. And that's why it took so long to make because the one that Schmidt makes for the refill, it kind of sucks.

Brad: Yeah, I think everyone who's gone down that path and takes the making of pen seriously has been either scrapped that in the beginning or is one and done saying, no, that's really not the best solution. Let's roll our own. So that's good.

Myke: While we were on Retro 51 though, I did see a store edition, which I just thought was beautiful, which is the Gold Spot one. They have an avocado edition and it is really just like simple, but beautiful.

Brad: Yeah, I agree. Like this, the nickel plated or what is this? I don't know what they call this. The darker pewter or nickel. It looks great. I honestly, when the lead image of this, I thought it was going to be an April Fool's joke. Because it's just a pen and an avocado.

Myke: Yeah, I don't really know why they've done that. I don't know why that's the first image, but such is life, I suppose.

Brad: And I was like, oh, it's real and it's actually really sharp looking. So it's really good. They did a whole set of gradient ones earlier or late last year. I'm actually giving one away on penaddict.com this week. I think they're really neat. I like the gradient color ideas. Also doing that keeps them ombre, the ombre series. Ombre series. Is it ombre or ombre? I don't know. Yeah, I think it's ombre. But I don't know. Chad will let us know. But anyway, cool series. And if you do that, that keeps the price point lower, right? So these are the more, not the starter, because you can still get tornado lacquers for cheaper. But if you're getting into store brands and things, this is a better price point. Then once you start getting the serious artwork and stuff like that, you get up into the $50 range, which is still really, really good.

Myke: All right, should we take our first break? Let's do it. All right, this episode is brought to you by our friends over at Harry's. You know Harry's. Brad loves Harry's, and we're going to hear from him in a minute. Because look, you shouldn't have to choose between having a great shave experience and having to pay a fair price for it. But Harry's doesn't want you to have to make that choice, so they give you both. Harry's delivers a close, comfortable shave at a great price, which is still as low as $2 per refill. And for a limited time, Harry's is offering their starter set, plus a free travel size body wash at harrys.com slash penaddict, just for listeners of this show. Harry's is a young brand, but they've embraced centuries of blade making tradition. They bought a German razor blade factory that has been making their own blades for over 100 years. These craftspeople grind strong steel into a gothic arch shape, creating a blade that is strong at the base and sharp at the tip. Harry's believes in no gimmicks or unnecessary features, so their design team combined the parts that you really want, the essential parts, a good weighted ergonomic handle with a textured grip and a flexible hinge. It's a smart, simple razor designed for delivering a close shave along every contour of your face. Harry's has their fair price, like this is what they believe in. So owning their means of production and using only the most crucial features allows them to keep their prices as low as $2 per refill. They don't add in the stuff that you don't want, and they also stand behind the quality of their blades with a 100% money back guarantee. Brad, can you tell our listeners a little bit about Harry's?

Beach Experience

Brad: Have you ever been to the beach, Myke?

Myke: I have.

Brad: So I was at the beach this week, and you go out. It's sunny. It's warm. The wind's blowing, so your neck tends to be a little, can get a little crispy from the sun, can get a little dirty. Let's be honest. And you go home for the evening, and you want to clean up that neck. And you're like, man, this is going to be terrible. Like, I've got sun. I'm sunburned. I'm filthy. And I'm going to hate shaving when I get home from the beach. But not with Harry's, Myke. The Gothic Arch. Let me just tell you. The Gothic Arch, after a sunburn and a beach trip, just glides so smoothly.

Brad: And the Harry's Shave Gel, Shave Cream that I use, it just makes for the perfect shaving experience. No matter, you know, no matter the events that took place on the beach, Myke, I can just, I know that Harry's is going to take care of me when I need to look my best.

Myke: How could you hear that and not want to try it out for yourself? Well, Harry's have an exclusive offer for listeners of this show. You can get their Harry's Starter Set and Body Wash right now at harrys.com slash penaddict. This is for all new customers. You'll get a five-blade razor, weighted Truman handle, foaming shave gel, travel blade cover, and that travel-sized body wash so you have even more to try out. There has never been a better time to try Harry's. Go to harrys.com slash penaddict to redeem your offer today for new customers. Our thanks to Harry's for their support of this show and RelayFM.

Brad: So I want to hit up a few new products in this section of the podcast. One we've discussed on our own that came out afterwards.

Myke: Yeah, we had a little texty chat about this because it was impossible to not talk about it immediately, wasn't it?

Brad: Yeah. But we're going to save that for a second. We're going to save that for a second because I want to give a shout out to Doan Paper and Chad Doan's new collaboration with Foxtrot Studio. I've always, Chad and I have always gotten along perfectly from a visual design and product creation perspective, right? Like, I would just trust Chad blindly. If I needed a thing and said, Chad, will you make me this thing and not give him any details? I know it would come out exactly how I want because Chad and I, like, think the same about these kind of things. So seeing this Foxtrot Studio collaboration, like, I'm just, they look great, right? So Foxtrot is, Doan Paper is based out of Kansas City. And Foxtrot's a local leather goods and accessories maker. So Doan Paper collaborated to make a notebook cover and pen holster and they used the natural leather, right? The kind of the untanned or undyed leather. It's a beautiful color.

Myke: Really good looking color.

Brad: Right. Those are the ones that age, like, exceptionally well. Like, you get brown leather stuff and it, like, you see the wear and the age on these, but these really take over all of the colors that you want to see in a broken in leather goods product. But my favorite is the three-hole binder pouch because I just love a good basic pouch, right? That's my kind of thing. And even though I don't own a three-hole binder, right, this is a throwback to those school days where you had your three-hole binder and you had a little pencil pouch in the front of your binder and, you know, just kind of had an all-in-one type of situation going. And it's a throwback to that in the design.

Brad: But the way these are put together is just really cool. And this one is denim. And I've got one. I think the first one he did was with a brand called Winter Session. I tried to find a picture online. I'm going to have to go take a picture of it. I could not even find a picture of the one that I own online anymore. So they've gone through a few series of these. Like, there's some other Winter Sessions out there you can find. But the one that I have is different than any of the ones I've seen online. So I want to take a picture of it and share it. But it's one of my favorite pouches to use. It carries, like, my Tier 1 pencils, right? Like, if I'm looking for, like, a Blackwing 602 or a Caran d'Ache Stinkwood or a Tombow Mono 100 or, like, any of, like, my top tier of pens, they go in this pouch with a couple of sharpeners. And, like, if I'm getting in a real pencil mood, I'll just grab this pouch. So I've used this for years. I highly, highly recommend them. And they're just cool. It's one of those cool products that I just eat up. I don't know if I'm going to go order this one because I don't need it. But, man, it's pretty cool. I like it a lot. So highly recommend them.

Myke: I want a piece of feedback for Chad. There's no image of the pouch in a binder on the page.

Brad: Yeah. I want to see that. Well, that's the thought. I mean, who owns a three-hole binder? It's the idea, right?

Myke: Oh, it's just, it's like, it's the nostalgia element that they're selling. Yeah, it's the hipster part of it. There's actually no holes in the holes. That's all that you got. No, that's true. I'm kidding. Yeah. But, yeah, I would love to see it in a binder.

Brad: Yeah, so I'm going to take a picture of mine not in a binder because mine is all black, heavy canvas, black patch, gold zipper, gold rings, which the ones you see from the previous winter session collab, there's a burgundy canvas. I think there's a different black canvas with some different stitching. But the one that I have, I couldn't find a picture of. So I want to make sure to share that online since I'm talking about it. I just haven't had a chance yet before recording, but I will do that after recording today. But let's get to the real product we want to talk about, Myke, the Sailor 110th Anniversary Fountain Pen. This came out, I think, probably the afternoon after we recorded last week. It seemed like it was almost immediate, right?

Myke: Yeah, I think so.

Brad: So we, of course, you know, started texting each other back and forth. OMG, did you see this? What are your thoughts? Myke and I do this game where we don't immediately say what we believe or what we feel about a product, right? Because it's like this podcast thing, right? We kind of want to, we don't want to lead the witness.

Sailor Pen Discussion

Myke: Yeah, I want to see what you're feeling. I don't want, I don't want to influence it in any way.

Brad: Yeah, and same here, right? So we kind of like beat around the bush saying what we like, what we dislike. And then in the end, we both say just kind of generally we get there, right? Like, oh, I really love it. Or, oh, I can't stand this. This is terrible. Whatever. What did you think about this pen?

Myke: I mean, it's absolutely unbelievably stunning.

Brad: Yeah, and I agree 100%.

Myke: I love every part of the design. And it's nothing like a sailor. It doesn't look like a sailor pen at all. Like, so they have three, they have three versions of this pen. And I think they're all limited to 110 units. And they vary quite significantly. Sorry, 1,100 units.

Brad: Yes, there's one that's 100 and one that's 1,100.

Myke: Yeah, there's one of them, which is the mega, mega, mega expensive one. There's 110 of them. And then there are two versions where they have 1,100 of them. The one that there is 110 of, isn't that the, like, it's multiple tens of thousands? How much is that?

Brad: I think it's like 5,500 US, like $5,000. Yes, you're right. Because it's got a gold, basically, it's got a gold belly band. And it's not a, it's not like a little thin line. It's like an inch wide strip of gold.

Myke: And then the other ones are like $1,000 or something.

Brad: Yeah, I think a little over $1,000.

Myke: And they don't look like sailor pens at all, which is so intriguing. But there's something about it which is very nautical to me. Like, they kind of look like pipes or something, like on a ship. And then they also have this new kind of, what they're calling a lid plug.

Myke: It's a great, terrible thing. At least that's how it's translated. It's probably a better thing to say.

Brad: Yeah, remember, Google Translate.

Myke: I've forgotten that. Because Google translates automatically, so sometimes I forget. But this is like a new finial, basically.

Brad: I mean, it's an accurate description.

Myke: Yeah, and the two different models have it done slightly differently. The more expensive one, the sailor logo is kind of suspended in this, like, acrylic disc. And on the other ones, the acrylic disc sits on top of the sailor logo. And it's very, like, porthole kind of look to me.

Myke: All I'm going to say is, I personally would be really intrigued if this is the beginning of a new sailor design language.

Brad: Historically, it's not going to be. Based on their previous five-year anniversary releases, right? I have the 105th, which was the black and blue striped ebonite. And it's this longer shape. It's kind of not really a king of pen. It's got some different tapers and some different angles in it. And I've never seen anything like it since. So I think they use this as their playground. And I agree with you that I would like to see it. And I don't know that history dictates that we will. But the times are different, though. Times are different, right? New owner, right? Yeah.

Myke: So they already, like, rebranded as well, kind of, right? They remade the logo. Right. They made a swirl.

Brad: They made a swirled ebonite king of pen this past year. Yeah. Or I don't know if that was earlier this year or late last year, the orange or black one. Really, really beautiful pen. Still in the king of pen shape. But this shape is very different, right?

Brad: A couple of things. One, I think you're spot on. This is a very nautical feeling pen with just the shape. I don't know why, right? I'm with you. I can't say why.

Myke: It also evokes like a telescope to me as well. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah. So I wonder how the grip section feels because there's a pretty good taper on it. Like, this is one I'd want to try if I was interested. Like, I'm not interested in buying this whatsoever.

Myke: There's a bit of a step as well, which is quite aggressive from the body to the grip.

Brad: Pretty good barrel step there.

Brad: But it also depends on the size of the pen. Like, how big is this pen? Like, the 105th that I have is a large, large pen. I'm bigger than king of pen. The finial is...

Myke: 163 millimeters. So 16 centimeters.

Brad: So what's that in inches? So five to five and a quarter or five and a half is like a standard length.

Myke: Yeah, about 6.2 inches.

Brad: So that's pretty... It's a big pen. Which they're going to make. Like, this limited edition, they're going to make it big. The finial is definitely a love-hate thing, right? I'm with you where I love it. I love both styles. Like, the floating anchor on the expensive end. It's really... Oh my gosh, it's beautiful. Yeah. Or the flat gold anchor on the other one. I'm good with either one. Like, I've already liked the Sailor Lighthouse look, right? That clear ends on the pen. So this is a different take on that. What I really like is... I don't know what you want to call it. The ring around the top, like, just under the finial. Like, the way it pokes out. It's a roll stop. It's not a roll. Is it a roll stop?

Myke: Yeah, they talk about it on the product page. It's a roll stop.

Brad: I like that design. I could go... I could see... Give me the traditional flat anchor finial with that roll stop in, like, a pro gear, right? With that type of... This type of design.

Myke: What they say, like, the translation says that it protects the clipless body as a detent, which I just assume that means it's a roll stop, right? Like...

Brad: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, if this starts going, it's going to go.

Myke: It's going to go because these look pretty heavy, too. So, like, the momentum of this thing would be pretty significant.

Brad: Yeah. It's more of a rest stop, not a roll stop. So, if it gets going, it's going to go. But overall, I'm 100% with you. I think this is a great design. I would like to see even a small feature of this pin make it into other pins. Like, the nib design is new, right? Yeah. Just the... They don't have all the scroll work. It's a simpler but neat nib. You know, it's got the 110th stamping on it and things like that. The new logo works well in the sizes that it shows up on the pen.

Brad: I was a little concerned in general. I think the Sailor word mark is a little weird still. But the anchor, I think, works great. And then there's an ink, Myke. So, the Sailor Blue Dawn ink with this. It's... I don't know that you'd call it a blue-black. It's definitely oceany. It's very, very, very pretty. So, yeah. I love it.

Myke: Let me just say, I mean, we spent a lot of time, even in the past few weeks, again, like, dragging some companies for their anniversary editions and special editions. Sailor know how to do this.

Brad: Yeah.

Myke: Like, this is so good.

Brad: This is one of those areas... I always talk about execution, right? And this is one of those areas where they always execute very, very well.

Myke: Because another company would have just made the $5,000 version.

Myke: But they have also made a $1,000 version, which is still mega expensive. It's outside of the range that I would want to spend. But it's still more attainable than the $5,000 version. So, for the people, the true, like, mega, mega fans that do want one, well, there are 2,000 of these that they're making that people can pick up. And I appreciate that rather than saying, all right, we've made 100 of these and they're $5,000 each. Which I feel like is something we would see more from, say, a pilot. It's actually the exact thing we saw from them, right? With their 100th, where they made this beautiful pen set. And you could only spend, you know, you have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to get one.

Brad: Or that was it for you. Well, let's be fair. There were two tiers. The problem, the second tier was still insane. The second tier was still like five grand. Yeah, okay, fair enough.

Brad: So, yeah, I'm with you. That's pretty cool. So, yeah, good job by Sailor. Like, I, you know. I'm into it.

Brad: Talk about, like, there's always something. That's, you know, we get ragged on for talking about Sailor all the time. But they're always up to something that's worth talking about, in my opinion.

Myke: Yeah, we'll do you a deal. We'll stop talking about Sailor when they stop doing interesting things. Until that point, we're going to keep doing it.

Brad: Yeah. And it doesn't mean interesting good. Because we'll talk bad about them just as much. Because there's so much. There's so much. All right, Myke. Speaking of expensive pens, I've got a problem.

Myke: Okay.

Vacation Conversation

Brad: So, we had this weird conversation with my wife on vacation. I can't remember if it was, we were, I don't think we were driving home. I think we were, like, driving back from the beach one day. And, you know, I always, like, I'm one of those, like, I kind of, she knows when I'm in a good mood and a bad mood. I kind of wear it on my sleeve a little bit. And I was a little bit, you know, there's things going on, whatever. And, you know, I was just kind of quiet. And she's just out of the blue. She goes, depends, still make you happy. Oh.

Brad: And I'm, like, well, yeah. Because we weren't doing, I wasn't grumpy about anything work related. You know, just family stuff, whatever. Yeah. She's, like, depends, still make you happy. I'm, like, yeah, absolutely. Like, she's, like, well, maybe you should buy a pen. Because this is not, I didn't, I thought this was going to be, like, a work-life balance talk kind of thing. But she was actually, like, trying to pep me up. But it kind of caught me off guard. Yeah. She was, like, she's, like, have you bought many pens recently? I was, like, you know, I've bought some, but nothing really or anything. She's, like, well, maybe you should buy one, right? You know, give you, make you, make you in a good mood or do something. I was, like, that was, that was very sweet. That's a nice thing, yeah. Yeah, it was, this was not, I did not see that coming from the initial statement.

Myke: There were two avenues where it seemed like this conversation was going. And it didn't go through either of them, right?

Brad: Like, nope, not at all, not at all. Which I should have known because, like, I wasn't grumpy about work or anything. I love my job and, like, everything is going wonderful. But she's, like, well, maybe you should buy a pen. Maybe that'll, does that make you happy? Will that, you know, will that give you a little boost? And I'm, like, yeah, maybe I'll do that. But, so, there's this pen that I've been following on Instagram, Myke. And I just want to, before I share the name and share the link, I want y'all to know, one, this is a very expensive pen. And two, I am not even close to thinking about buying one yet. But I'm watching them. This is what I do. Like, we're going to spend some time. And the brand is called Toma. T-O-H-M-A.

Myke: So, basically, this was, like, when you were thinking, I should buy a pen. Like, your mind went to what are the things that I have been, like, eyeing up anyway and kind of just, like, checking them out. Yeah.

Brad: So, I haven't done all my research. This is one of those pens that if I do buy it, it'll be, like, two years from today. Right? Like, this is, I'm going to take my time, figure out what the brand is about, figure out how they make them.

Brad: Save money. Because I think the cheapest one I've seen is about $1,500. Yeah. Like, which is.

Myke: Yeah. I'm looking at these online now and they seem about that kind of.

Brad: They're, like, between $1,500 and $3,000. Yeah. But what they represent is 100% my aesthetic. Right? Like, this is a Brad style of pen. Not necessarily the Rodden one. Right? That one's not super my style. But the basic ones and the ebonite ones and the translucent ones. And these are a fully handmade pen, like, from the mechanisms that you scroll through there.

Myke: I don't like the carbon fiber one. I don't like that.

Brad: Yeah. Yeah. That wouldn't be, that wouldn't be my move. Yeah. And I think those are, those might be the, the, the lower, the air quote lower end. They are the cheaper ones. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that one's not my style. The other ones are. But then you, like, go through their Instagram and they have, like, these ebonite feeds. And, you know, maybe they, like, the comments and, or the, the text from the, the ebonite feed post is like, hey, maybe this can be an avant-garde ink feed. So this is like a highly custom one-off. Like, if I ordered one, it would probably take a year or more to make. And it's very expensive. But I'm looking. Like, I'm watching. So my wife, if my wife wanted to know what's got me excited these days and what pin would do the trick, it would be one of these. But now we start the process. Right.

Myke: I feel like I have a real, like, love-hate relationship already with this logo.

Brad: It's the, it's 100% the logo. Is it Toma? Because the logo, I'm going to go with Toma. Yeah. But I don't know for sure.

Myke: Because I really like the logo itself.

Brad: Mm-hmm.

Myke: But I don't know if I like it on the, on all of the pens. It's, it's kind of weird.

Brad: It's very much a statement. Yeah. And I am with this. I love, I've, I love the logo. And here's why. This is such a small batch kind of piece of art that I'm good with the artist wanting you to know, hey, Toma, right here. As opposed if Pilot did this, or Sailor did this, or Kaweco does this sometimes, I'm more like, oof. Like, we could choose not to do that on this one. That would be okay if you chose not to do this. I would be fine with that. Yeah. I feel a little bit differently in this situation.

Myke: I think it's as a genuine benefit around the fact that the logo is actually cool. Right. If they didn't have a nice looking, or like an interesting looking logo, then we'd be in a different, we'd be having a different conversation. It's just, because it is so prominent on the pens, it just fits some of them better than others. Like, Chris in the Discord is saying it's very early 2000s retro car kind of vibe. Yeah. Which I think might make sense for them aesthetically, considering they have a bunch of carbon fiber pens. Like, that might be an aesthetic of theirs that they're actually going for. Right. Now, I have literally never heard of this company, ever. Yeah. Ever. Yeah. Is that expected?

Brad: Yeah, totally. Like, they just came on my radar probably in the last six months. I think people sharing their pictures and just seeing some of the uniqueness. I think the first ones I saw were some of the carbon fiber ones, like, because they have a more of a racing stripe feel to them. Like, they look like they kind of go together. They photograph very well. But then I got into it and saw some of the ebonite ones and saw some of the, like, it's, you know, a lot of it's ebonite narushi. Like, these can get up in the price. But I am kind of fascinated by them right now. So, this is a situation I'm monitoring. Like, when I did that with Nakaya, it took me almost two years to, like, pull the trigger. Right? You got to do your research, save your money, figure out what, you know, what model, you know, do you like and things like that. So, something I'm watching.

Myke: And I'm guessing the likelihood of you trying to see one of these in person is very slim. Maybe Tokyo 2022. Oh, fuck. Oh, don't even. And it just, I'm too excited about the prospect of that trip to even think about it.

Brad: That would be my time frame, right? To give me the time for the research and the setup and all that. So, saving of money.

Myke: I mean, I'd assumed that they were based in Japan.

Brad: Yeah, it's a good question. I don't 100% know.

Myke: Okay.

Brad: So, anyway. I just, this whole, this topic came from a weird place. But it was kind of fun. And it's something I've been thinking about is, you know, have I bought a pen for me recently? And I probably have, but, like, nothing that's, like, totally sticking out. So.

Myke: Well, let me see if I can help you with that, Brad. Maybe you can buy something a little bit more immediate.

Brad: Mm-hmm.

Myke: By going to our friends over at Pen Chalet because they have what you're looking for, Brad Dowdy. Nice. They have fountain pens, roller balls, ballpoints, mechanical pencils. They have inks. They have carrying cases, refills, fountain pen converters. They have all the products you're going to want and all the accessories to go with them from so many brands. Too many to name. And it's adding new stuff all the time. It's one of the things that I love about Pen Chalet. Every time I go there, I'm finding new products that I haven't seen before, new releases from my favorite brands, and new products from brands that are new to me. So there's always something to check out. And they're always doing great discounts as well. Every couple of weeks, you're going to find some kind of special deal or some set of sales over at Pen Chalet, let alone the special offers that we have just for Panatic listeners. Pen Chalet sell internationally. Now, they're great. They have great shipping rates. But if you're in the U.S., they do free shipping on orders of over $50. I mean, that's easy to get over $50, surely. Pen Chalet has low prices on high-quality pens, and they offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee. So go right now to PenChalet.com. That's P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T.com. And there's a link at the top of the website. It says podcast. If you click that, use the password PenAddict, and you will get a code that you need to save 10% on anything at any time at Pen Chalet, as well as getting to see a selection of offers just for Pen Addict listeners. What's catching your eye?

Brad: I can't get over how good these Cross ATX fountain pens look. We mentioned them a couple weeks ago when Pen Chalet sponsored. I'm kind of shocked in a good way at just how nice this pen looks. The reviews have been good on them, and the price is kind of like if you're into like Twisby's, you would be into this pen, and it's going to give you a different like really sharp and clean writing experience. I don't know. I'm just generally impressed with what Cross has done recently. I haven't pulled the trigger myself, but every time I see them now, I just kind of stop and go, huh, really? Cross? You're like, okay, like I'm in. You know, like welcome. Welcome to the fold, Cross. So I think that looks pretty sharp. I'm also interested in the Pilot Knight ballpoint pen from this perspective. What refill does this take? So that will take a little bit of research, but if you can fit even like a G2 in here, they're saying this is a ballpoint pen depending on the refill. Like Pilot's ballpoint refills are fine, but as pen addicts, we always like a nice barrel where we can manipulate the refills in them. Yeah. For the price that this pen is, to be able to manipulate your refill in it and use this as a platform, it's just, it's dirt cheap. Like for an upgrade barrel.

Myke: The page says it is a proprietary refill and it's a twist pen. So you might struggle to find a replacement depending on if they build this twist mechanism into the refill.

Brad: So what's funny is Pilot has a few proprietary refills and then a few kind of universal refills, which is so strange to me. So yeah, so maybe it's only the Pilot one, but I would like to look at that further and see what the shape of that is.

Myke: Also, when I read it and when you said it, Pilot Knight, I was thinking to myself, holy night. It's just very, all is calm, all is bright. There's a great deal here on a three-pack.

Brad: Can we edit some of this podcast? Do you know?

Myke: I mean, surely somebody could, but we only edit out the bad stuff and that was classic. So I don't know what you're talking about.

Brad: Well, it's funny. What you're about to say was the next thing I was going to say. So you do it.

Myke: Pilot Orochizuku three-pack for a just astounding price. I love Pilot Orochizuku inks. Yeah. And I think that just a three-pack as a trial, they're like the 50 milliliter bottles for this price. If you've never tried them before, I really recommend just like throwing that into a cart. It's just an absurd price for 45 milliliters of great ink.

Brad: It's like gift with purchase pricing is what it is. So it's fantastic. So yeah, man, gosh, these cross Star Wars rollerballs too. Okay. Get me out of here.

Myke: That Darth Vader one is better than anything that they've done so far, I think. Like that's pretty legit looking, I think, that one.

Brad: Yeah. There's a name for this pen. It's like the snap barrel mechanism that they use. You kind of pull it apart, don't you? Yeah. It's like a short, long pen. It's great.

Myke: It is a funny pen, that one. All right. Go to penshelly.com, podcast link at the top of the website, and use the password penaddict to see these special offers and get the 10% code to save a penchelay. All right. Thanks to Pen Schellay for the continued support of this show and RelayFM.

Mass TPA

Brad: Let's hit some mass TPA. I think it's been a week or two. We got some catching up to do.

Myke: All right. This one's a bit of a story that ends in a question. This comes from Brody. Brody says, my question is about collecting and solving for X. So let me explain what this means. I tend to buy tons of gear so that I can learn all about it, how it works and what the variables are. But after a while, I settled in on a few things that work best for me, but I'm left with a mountainous stockpile of past purchases. For example, I own roughly 60 fountain pens, but regularly use only three. I have hundreds of pocket notebooks, but now exclusively carry a Circo Jotlit 3x5 disc bound pad in my back pocket. Why is it so hard to let go of all of my other stuff? I give some away because that brings me joy, but mostly I can't bring myself to purge. This is especially true for any items where I got a screaming bargain. Another thought that runs through my brain is that I had such fun trying all these different options, getting to the solution. Perhaps later on, I'll want to rotate back through. Maybe I haven't solved anything. Maybe the fun is in changing the experience regularly, so life is more fun. How do you two identify what is stationary hoarding and what is maintaining a practical stash? I have reverse FOMO. I have fear of letting go.

Brad: Great question, right?

Myke: Yeah. Yeah.

Brad: I think we all have this. I have this. This is probably one of my main... We're going to go with issue. I'm just going to go straight up. One of my main issues.

Myke: I have a very simple answer for myself. Okay, you got it. So I have this exact thing, right? This is kind of like two kind of answers to this problem. I have like a... You know, I like two basic... What might as well just be large boxes. One has pens in, one has notebooks in. And it's stuff that I don't use and will probably never use because I've since moved on and moved up and found the things that I love the most. You know, like my... The paper that I use is pretty limited. I use like two or three types of books now and they're just the same ones and I just keep using those. And my pens, I've whittled them down to maybe a collection of like 40 or 50. And out of the... I probably have, I don't know, another three-figure number of stuff that I've tried that's stored somewhere over the last decade, right? Mm-hmm. And so I've kind of found that collection... I've refined my collection down to my favorites. And that's the stuff that I like to use and I experiment. And there's enough room, I think, of experimentation within that collection. But the rest of it is just laziness. Because, all right, so I've got a few things that I can do. I can throw them away, but that's wasteful, right? I can give them away and I do that every now and then, but there's only so much you can give away to people. Or I can sell them. And the thing about selling is... It's just a lot of aggravation. Because, like, you need to work out a way to sell it. And once you've done that, you are, like, beholden to the person having the right experience on the other side. That it works for them. That they know what they're buying. You know what I mean? And it's just, like, for something that... Where a lot of this stuff, there isn't a lot of resale value left on them. You know, like, it might have been a $50, $60, $70 pen I bought five years ago. You know, and it's now secondhand and has been unused for years. Like, if it probably doesn't hold that much value, how much aggravation do I want to go through trying to get rid of that? So that is why I end up with this big collection of pens in the $10 to $150 range. Because I don't really know what else to do with them. Rather than just keep them. And every now and then appreciate that I have this collection and look back through it nostalgically.

Brad: Yeah, I agree with almost everything you said there. It's sometimes, like, the effort to do it is not worth it. And, you know, I'll tend to do it in batches when I do do it. It's, you know, haven't been more than, like, once a year. But, like, I might grab, like, 20, you know, pens or so and do them as a batch where I commit to, okay, sorting out that these are the pens that I want to sell.

Myke: The only thing I have done this with is my field notes. Yeah. So I, well, Idina has for me, sold off all of my unopened packs. Mm-hmm. So we just put them all on eBay. Yep. And they're all gone. Like, so now all I have left is the packs that I've opened.

Brad: Yep. Yep. I just think, I think you, some days you just have to just, like, rip off the Band-Aid and do it, though. Because you end up in this situation, you know, that Brody's talking about. And the hardest part is deciding what to keep and what to let go. And I tend to just let that happen naturally by how much I use something, right? No matter if, like, Brody's saying, oh, well, I got this for a really good deal. Like, I should keep it. Well, that's, honestly, that's not a good reason to keep something, right? The best reason to keep something is it means something to you or you use it frequently enough to keep it. Everything else needs to go. And I'm super guilty of not making everything else go. And I need to. So, the one thing I can tell you that I've learned from a couple of sales that I've done is I've never regretted selling a pen. Like, I've never gone back and said, oh, I wish I had this pen back. You know, or, oh, I miss this. Or, oh, I'll start, oh, where was that pen that I liked and go look for it and then realize that I sold it. That has never, ever happened. So, it's worth the effort in my book to go through, you know, pick a day, pick a Saturday afternoon, sit down and sort these things out. And go ahead and sell them because now you'll have some funds in your pen fund to pick up the next thing because there's always going to be something new. That's, you know, that's where our FOMO gets us before we get to, what is it, FOLG. FOLG. FOLG doesn't really roll off the tongue as much. But, yeah, that's the fear of letting go. I always justify things was like, well, I can use this as a reference product for reviews. And I can, you know, oh, it's got this, you know, different material or this strange thing with its filling system that I should just keep handy. And I never compare, never use those for comparisons. So, you got to take the opportunity to clean house. Once a year is enough. You know, just do it. Run through. Make it an event. Get rid of the stuff. And I promise you, you're not going to miss it.

Myke: I would have thought and I kind of would suggest, would have, sorry, would have considered that you would keep on to stuff for that reason. You know, of being able to compare stuff. And I'm sure that there is some products that are worth holding on to purely for that reason. But, as you say, not all of them.

Brad: Yeah. Like, I have a Mont Blanc 149, right? It's the big, you know, kind of landmark classic Mont Blanc pen. I just never use it because it's not my style. But I keep it because, well, we've used that to measure slots in NotCo pen cases, right? Because it's a very, very large pen. It's going to cover, like, if you can fit this, you can fit 90% of the other pens. I keep it because of the nib and the look and the style to compare it to other, you know, pens. And I keep it to... For measurements, yeah.

Myke: Like, to give people an accurate representation, like, from an image perspective of how big a pen is or how big a case is by comparing it to one of the gold standards.

Brad: So, that's a pen I never use that I'd be happy to sell, but I keep it because of reference purposes. But then there's been plenty of other ones that I've sold because of that, so.

Myke: Ewing asks, why do our most respected pen companies make absolutely atrocious converters? Pilot ones are very difficult to get a full fill. Sailor converters feel cheap and make me want to cry every time I fill them. Why can't they take a page out of the standard international converter book and make something that works and feels good to use?

Brad: Are those even good? Like, standard international is better, in my opinion.

Myke: I don't know if I've ever really come across or used something that I thought was that great. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah. All converters are terrible, but we all love converters because of the convenience, so we end up putting up with them.

Myke: Well, we love converters because we want to use our inks, you know?

Brad: True. I mean, and they're... Essentially, you've got to treat them as disposable items. You know, unfortunately, they're about eight bucks each, like, for Sailor, which is just asinine, which makes the worst converter. It charges the most, but they're just garbage. I don't know why there's not a better option. I'm sure that these companies have looked into it and researched it.

Myke: Like, one of the things that always gets me is how small the amount of ink is you can put in them sometimes, and how physically large the converter is. And I just wonder, like, why do I need so much, like, area to put my fingers onto to grip? Like, it feels like it's like a third of the size of the converter sometimes. It's like I don't understand what's going on here.

Brad: Yeah. I agree with you there. Like, does that part need to be that long? Yeah. I just... I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of chat in the chat rooms that, you know, the companies want to make sure they fit their old pins, you know? Like, do we have to keep making a modern item to fit, you know, people who bought their pins 20, 30, 40 years ago and still fit and things like that? So, we're not seeing the innovation in the converter space.

Myke: Honestly, I think if that's the reason, it's a bad reason. Like, you can make two different ones. They're cheap parts, you know?

Brad: I agree, but you're, like, the historical companies are never going to agree to that, right? Pilot is never going to turn off that customer base, right?

Myke: No, but they can still make the old one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brad: Right? I don't know. It's a bad product that's necessary, so I just treat them as disposable. And when one makes me mad, like, I'll get some platinum ones that don't twist well anymore. And I'll get so angry, but I'll just end up choking them and using another one. And then when I need, if I run out somehow, which I never will, I'll just buy another one. But they're just bad. They're just, there's nothing good about converters except ease of use, right? And so your other option is companies to never make converters and only make piston fillers and charge $500 for all their pens.

Myke: Yeah. Or just cartridges, and the cartridges are all proprietary, and you can only use the inks of the companies that make the pens. Yeah.

Brad: Yep. So there you go. Yeah. It's, there's no good answer to this. They all suck.

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Brad: I love this next question.

Myke: This is from JCG Verboom. Do you have any experience with technical drafting pens?

Myke: Yes. Okay.

Brad: And generally, I hate them. Okay. Right. So if to refresh your memory, Myke, these are the like the Kohenor rapidographs that you'll see often sold as a set with different nib sizes. And they use India ink to refill them. And what these are, so the technical drafting pen tip is just a tube. So there's no ball on the end of the pen to make it roll, right? So you're just, it's really just like a straight pipe where the ink flows out of. And it's metered by things further up in the.

Myke: What's the name of the Kohenor product you mentioned?

Brad: Rapidograph. There's a couple different brands. Rotring makes one. Isograph. Kohenor. Rapidograph. You've certainly seen these. Mm-hmm. Um, so they are extraordinarily finicky. Besides the fact that I, I love how they look. I want to use them all the time. But it uses a very wet ink to, as, as it's refill. It's pretty much like India ink. It bleeds like crazy. But some people really, really like them. Um, they are high maintenance. If you think, if you hate cleaning a fountain pen nib, you're going to despise cleaning these. So I have plenty of experience with them. I just, and I've learned that I don't want to use them as much as I want to use them. If that makes sense. Right. This is everything I should like in a pen. But like, what are they. Oh, I can get a teeny tiny line.

Myke: What does this mean? Like, what do people use them for? Are they like for inking, like comics and stuff? Yeah.

Brad: Inking, technical drawings, things like that.

Myke: So when you need like a super fine, precise line.

Brad: Mm-hmm. Okay. And it's usually, it's like a permanent ink, right? It's, um, it's going to be like a waterproof permanent type of ink. They, this, this ink that they use. So, but you like can generally only get the ink in black and there's not a lot of flexibility and there's a lot of frustration with these types of pens, despite the idea being amazing. Like I should, this should be like my number one favorite pen. Mm-hmm. But like, just like a Pilot Hi-Tech C 0.25 millimeter pen for $3 is infinitely better than this. Right. But unless you have a, like a very specific use case, uh, maybe for filling and coloring and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. You don't, these are not pens you write with because there's no adjustment for that type of flow. Like you're not going to, this is not a pen that rolls smoothly across the page. Right. So.

Myke: This next question comes from JSTWG, just who says, I am mesmerized by shown designs, clean lines when the cap is posted. That is the barrel and the posted cap together look like they came from one piece. Does anyone else use this great style element? Has this never been thought of before?

Brad: So if you think about it, it's, there's not a lot of companies that use a screw post mechanism, right? So that's what Ian, I'm assuming we're talking about the pocket six and the, the ball points. So the cap screws off and then screws onto the back, right? Something other pocket pens like, um, you know, like Kveco, right? The cap post over the barrel where the shown design caps on the end of the barrel and it's threaded. So you'll see that in plenty of other designs, but mostly they're solid colors or materials like black aluminum, brass, things like that. Well, they're just thread. Well, Ian's anodization takes it all through the barrel. So it's a common ish thing, right? If, but threads on the back are uncommon just to begin with. Right. So it's, it's been done plenty of times before, unless I'm misunderstanding the question.

Myke: What just really is, is asking is that when you cap the panel and the pen is closed, that the design and the, the, the like seam is so clean. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I've seen this on other pens. The thing is, I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but, but I believe I'm right on this. Uh, well, actually, cause I just had a conversation with Tom and Dan about it. I'm thoroughly considered cause they're kind of putting together the Mark two right now and having some similar things where if you say polish a pen or add an anodization to a pen and you have now made a pair between the cap and the body, you have just made your, every single part of the film process more difficult. Mm-hmm. Because now these two parts, they have buddies. Yep. You can't make the caps separately from the bodies and assemble them. Uh, you, you, you've just added like a and B pairings together. Right. And now you're, you're like kind of assembly line is much trickier to manage at scale. Mm-hmm. Right. Cause this is something that they're having where, um, I recommend people listen to Thoroughly Considered, by the way, they don't talk to Tom and Dan Studio and E every couple of weeks when we talk about product design and stuff, but they are, um, having the, the parts of the pen polished and then sent off for, um, I can't remember whether they're doing Cerakoting or anodization or it's like the PVD thing that they're doing. Yeah. I can't remember on this model. It's just, just gonna, it's PVDing, it's PVDing. So they're actually doing both. That's silly me. That's why I can't remember because they did one part is Cerakoted, one part is PVD. And because they do the polishing first, they have to make sure that all of the parts of the pens go together. And with the way that they're doing it, it's four parts. So they have the top of the pen, like the sleeve, the cap that then goes on. Then they, it's like, they have the very, like the finial basically, which you can't take off, but they, they put it together so they can put the clip in and it's seamless. So they have those two pieces and then they have the body of the pen with the part where you unscrew to put the refill in. They have those two pieces and they polish them together and then they're Cerakoted or PVD together. So like those, every component of the pen has to be kept together. So it's like, you know, they knew this. I mean, they're smart. They knew what they were doing. They've done this stuff before. So they knew it makes it, but it's just this, this stuff just makes it a little bit more tricky because now those two pieces of each part can't get replaced with something else because then the polishing won't line up.

Brad: Yep. Totally. Like we experienced that with, with all the colors we do for spoke pen. They have to like match.

Myke: I have no doubt about that. Right. Like, cause I assume there are slight variations in the anodization coloring. Oh yeah. You've got to keep that together or you're going to end up with customers with mismatched part, like, um, yeah colors, which you don't want. Yeah.

Brad: I think this question is more just on along the, the shape of the, the barrel line with the cap posted. And I really just think it's threaded barrels. Like, like the Cavico Lily puts another one. Um, I think it's just any, it's the screw piece allows for it to be flush because you're not sitting over the barrel. Like the cap's not, there's no ledge there or anything like that. So.

Myke: Well, now we've given all potential answers to that question.

Brad: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Myke: I'm interested about this next question though. Oh, this is easy. This comes from Bump, good friend of the show. What will Myke spend more money on in 2021, pens or keyboards? I mean, this is easy. Both 2020 and 2021, it's going to be keyboards. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So, you know, like we were talking earlier about buying stuff and trying it. Like I'm still in that part. Yeah. Of the keyboard hobby, right? I'm not in that phase in pens anymore. Like last year, I maybe bought a couple of pens, like max. And that's the same this year. Like I just have less coming my way now, you know? Well, you're, you're content. Exactly. I have found the areas that I love and I will add to that with new things within those areas. But I do not feel like I need to explore areas of pens anymore. I know what I like because I've spent the last 10 years doing the exploration and I'm in the exploration part of keyboards right now. Like I'm still kind of working out like what is my favorite keyboard layout? Like what type of switches do I like the most? Like I'm still in that formation phase. You know, like I haven't really, I haven't even been like in this hobby for a year yet. Like I'm coming up on it. So it was 2020 was the same, 2021. I mean, I think, you know, I think I probably already, no, I know I have already spent more in 2021 on keyboards than I spent on 2020 on pens. So.

Brad: Yep. Yep. That would have, that would have been my guess too.

Myke: Yeah.

Myke: T Lesher asks, the Pilot Murex M90 is my grail pen, but I wish you'd stop talking about them on the show because I swear every time you do, the auction price goes up by $40 every time you mention it. This was, this wasn't really a question, but it was a, it was like a, what would you, how would you say? Like a comment, right? Mm-hmm. And I wanted to mention this for two reasons. One, it inspired me to use my M90 today. So sorry, T Lesher, I'm using mine right now. But it was, it made me think, I wanted to know, have you ever bought a pen on eBay?

Brad: Yeah, but it's been a while, like not any time recently. And when I do, it's more of the, the gel pen, pencil, rollerball, ballpoint style than a fountain pen, right? Things I can get from some of the Japanese sellers that I can't get over here in that market where I know like there's a safety net of, of, of it working and what I'm getting as opposed to a fountain pen. I don't know. I'm trying to think if I've ever bought a fountain pen from eBay and I don't think that I have.

Myke: I know I've bought films from eBay. Yes, sir. And I bought something once which was mostly a joke, really, which was an old Apple rollerball pen. Yeah, I remember that. Which I, I still need to, I just haven't gotten around to it, but I need to find a refill to put in that thing one day. It's just like, it's been on my desk and it's just not been a very high priority thing.

Brad: I think, was that, it might have been a Parker Vector. I think it was. You'd have to show me the picture of it.

Myke: No, I think it was a Parker Vector.

Brad: So they make those modern. So you should be able to get one.

Myke: Yeah. So I mean, it's, and it, cause it's one of the things I will, but also whatever I find, I'm not really going to like the refill anyway. So really, I just, it was just like, I kind of, it wasn't that expensive and it just looked really cool. And so I just thought I would, I would get it, but I don't think I've ever bought anything like this, you know, cause for me, the types of things that I would want to buy. Historically, I wouldn't wait and try and find them at a pen show. Exactly right. Because then I can see it and touch it and make sure that it's good and ask questions about it rather than spending the money on eBay.

Brad: Yep. Yep. So that's, I guess that's a good answer as to why I probably haven't bought a fountain pen via eBay.

Myke: Cause I feel like it's pretty unlikely that there is a pen that I would want that I could get on eBay, but couldn't find a pen shop. Right. I feel like the likelihood of that is pretty slim, right? That there's something out there, which is like, uh, frequent enough that someone would sell it on eBay, but then, but would not be able to get it on a, from, from a reseller, from a vintage seller, from anyone on a pen show. I think it'd be pretty strange.

Brad: Yep. Yep. And like, I haven't bought as many of the, the standard cheaper, you know, gels and pencils on there because there's a lot more access to those just in the broader market, uh, these days where I don't have to do that. So there you go. But, uh, Murex M90, sorry about that. We're not going to stop talking about them either.

Myke: I will say though, if you ever find one for a price, that is okay if you just do it. Yeah. Yeah. I would. If you can afford it. Cause it really is stupendous. I'm using it today and it's like, how is it so good? It just is. Yep. All right. That is it for this episode of the pen addict. If you would like to send in a question for us on a future show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag ask TPA. You can also use question mark ask TPA in the relay FM members discord, or you can email them to hello at pen addict.com. If you want to find Brad online, you can go to pen addict.com, knock.co, spoke design.com. You can also find Brad, um, on Twitch on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 10 a.m. Eastern. As we are recording this right now, Brad's been doing something very weird because this is usually a streaming time. So he has been streaming on Twitch, his side of the podcast, which I assume is a horrible Twitch experience. It's gotta be terrible. You gotta keep those, uh, you gotta keep the, the, the, the schedule intact, right?

Brad: That's right. Big fan of the schedule.

Myke: Um, you can find, uh, Brad. He is at Dowdy as I'm on Twitter and pen addict on Instagram. I am I Myke, I M Y K E. Um, I recommend you go to cortexmerch.com where you can pick up a theme system journal and we have a notebook product coming very soon. I teased it on my Instagram stories today and on the cortex brand Instagram stories as well. If you want to see a little bit about that. Uh, and before we go, let me tell you about another show here in relay FM called automators. If you want to make your devices do more for you, join David sparks and Rosemary orchard at relay.fm slash automators or search for automators wherever you get your podcasts. You're going to find out a bunch of great information about how to make your technology work for you, which is pretty great. Um, thanks for listening to this week's episode of the pen addict. And thanks to the fine folks over at express VPN pen chalet and Harry's for their support of this episode. And we'll be back next time until then say goodbye, Brad.

Brad: Goodbye, Brad.