The Pen Addict 615/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	615
Title:	It’s All In The Nib
Release Date:	May 15th, 2024
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	Damien Alomar
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 615
Audio File:	Audio Episode 615
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 615
Length:	6262 min <br />1.033 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Brad Dowdy: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode number 615. Today's show is brought to you by Factor and Canalea Penco. My name is Brad Dowdy, and this week I am joined by Damien Alomar, nib grinder extraordinaire from All in the Nib. How's it going, Damien? Hi, Brad. It's going great. Good, good. I'm glad you're here. We've kind of been plotting and planning this for a while, and I've always wanted to get you on as a guest. And, you know, we've obviously known each other for several years throughout all the pen shows that we've been to, all the nib work we've had done, some special projects we've worked on together. So I appreciate you being here today. Oh, super excited to be here, Brad. Yeah, so as you can imagine, we're going to talk a lot about nib grinding, right? Like, that's one of the great questions we always get for the podcast or, like, when I write an article on the blog. You know, just last week we had a little guest post. Like, I did not, I promise I did not time these on purpose to run together. But, you know, my friend Sam got a nib grind from you, and he said, hey, can I write up this article? And I was like, yeah, like, I always want to hear about nib grinds, and I think a lot of people want to hear about nib grinds, so we're going to get into that. Before we do, I have to learn more about you, and our listeners need to learn more about you. Maybe, I don't know, maybe you say maybe not at the end. But I am always curious of people who I've known for years. Like, I know what you do now, but I don't know how you got into this stuff, right? Like, how did you get into stationery? Were you a stationery fan when you were a kid? Did it come later in life? So tell me what your stationery background is.

Early experiences with stationery and first fountain pen

Damien Alomar: So I was not a stationery fan as a kid. I think I used, like, erasable pens or something in middle school, so definitely not a stationery fan then. I definitely, at least kind of started to care about stationery related things when I got into college. And I was in architecture school, and so there's a lot of, you know, what paper are you going to have these on, you know, writing instruments, things like that. So, you know, if anybody's familiar with the Rapidiograph Indie Ink pens, those are, you know, very high maintenance. Yeah, you gotta clean them out and things like that. And that's kind of where I got exposed to sort of writing instruments beyond what, you know, just sort of lives in a cup. Nice. And there's, at least at my school, there was a little bit of a tradition where underclassmen would help graduate school thesis students with their thesis projects because there's so much work to do. And I wound up helping out one of my friends who was a grad school, and he was a woodturner. And so he actually made me like a turnt, you know, wood kit pen. Yeah. And I was like, oh, thanks. And then I just put it on the shelf and I didn't even know.

Brad Dowdy: Like a ballpoint or rollerball or something.

Damien Alomar: It actually was a fountain pen. Get out. Okay. But I don't think I actually even realized that it was a fountain pen at the time.

Damien Alomar: And I'm pretty sure I still have it. I don't know where because I've been so many times in the last couple of years. But I did, I know last time I checked, I had it in like 2020. And it was, you know, I was like, oh my gosh, it actually was a fountain pen. I think that's when I realized that it was a fountain pen.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So I'm always curious about Rapidograph users. Did you have like the full like tip set? Did you have like the range? Like what's the, how many in number of tips like do those have? Like are we like five or six? Are we up to like 10?

Rapidograph pens and their use in architecture

Damien Alomar: Oh, you could, you could easily get 10. So like they have the normal set, which most architectural students wind up getting. And like Rapidographs on Mylar paper is just a really like classic look as far as architectural drawings go. Mm-hmm. In the sense that like you don't, can't really hold them like a normal pen. Like they want to be almost vertical to the page.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Damien Alomar: So it's a different experience.

Brad Dowdy: I'll put a link in the show notes. So if people aren't familiar with them, they're not something you go into without knowing what you're getting, like you're saying, right? For those two reasons. One, the tip, it's basically cut like a pipe at the end. Like we're used to say like our standard ball points and roller balls. They have a ball in the tip of the pen. This is literally almost just like a pipe, meaning like, you know, Damien's talking about having to hold it like vertically because there's no real angle. Like there's a smooth edge around there. So you can, so you're not actually shredding the paper as you write, but there's nothing to affect the ink application on the page. Like there's no extra mechanic in there.

Damien Alomar: Well, so inside the, the kind of pipe tube thing, there's actually like a small little like needle that goes in because there's no feed. And it also uses like India ink. So it's a thicker, more viscous ink. It's not like a water-based fountain pen ink. And on the, on the fatter ones, they're, they're more resilient. But when you get to the really, really fine ones, you actually have these, the piece in between is almost like this little fine little wire. And so on the really fine ones, if you bend that wire in the process of, of cleaning it, you've ruined the rapidiograph because it won't regulate the actual flow of ink anymore. And you'll just dump ink on the page.

Brad Dowdy: Well, Hey, at least cleaning those got you used to what would, what would, uh, becoming later once you got into fountain pens, cause that's a nightmare in itself.

Damien Alomar: I mean, cleaning fountain pens is, you know, of course, like we all put them aside and then like every few weeks, a month or so we got to clean. I mean, without going through and doing customer pens stuff, I have to clean pens all the time.

Brad Dowdy: You got good practice. So you, you got this fountain pen as a gift. How did that eventually transition into, I don't know, maybe it was after school or somehow you ended up in the past. I'm guessing trying to, I'm guessing trying to fountain pen at some other point in time.

Transition to using pens in a professional workplace

Damien Alomar: Yeah. So I was in a nicer workplace, uh, and I was in a lot of meetings, taking a lot of notes and my hand was cramping up and, uh, I was on Reddit and, you know, saw these suggestions for fountain pens. And so I ordered myself, uh, uh, uh, pilot metropolitan. That was my first pen. Um, and it was a great pen, you know, there's, they're, they're great first pens for people. Um, but at the same time, it also wasn't what I was looking for in a fountain pen, but it was enough to get me hooked. I don't know why, but, uh, I've been using fountain pens ever since.

Brad Dowdy: Nice. So do you, do you remember what, uh, pens at, at work were making your hands cramp? Like, do you remember any specifics or probably not?

Damien Alomar: So it was, it was nicer office. So like we had like, I think like some G2 or like a doctor grip type pens. And I actually liked using them more than just, you know, a standard BIC and I had made it, I'd actually not lost one of them and I had put a couple refills in. And so that was my first barrier to like, can I get a nice pen? It's like, well, can I not lose it? Um, and so after not losing it, I'm like, okay, maybe I can actually go ahead and get something nice.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. You, you know, you're in a good office when you don't have to shop from the corporate express catalog. You get the actual brand name, uh, office supply catalog, catalog to stock the shelf.

Damien Alomar: It was, it was a very nice office. We're from the DC area. And so we actually had like views for the Capitol from our office. We were up on the top.

Brad Dowdy: Nice. Nice. So did the Met, the Metropolitan work for you and it actually made you want to start looking at, at other things. So when you got the Metropolitan, did you, what did you think? Like, what do you say? Like, okay, I like this, but I kind of have like a different problem I want to solve. And that's what, that's what made you look a little bit further.

Damien Alomar: So I liked the Metropolitan, um, but the grip on the Metropolitan is a little thin. Okay. And so I still, I still kind of had a little bit of the hand cramping issues with it. And the nib I got on the Metropolitan, I can't remember if I even understood what I was ordering when I was ordering. I got a fine, which is a very nice fine line. And I, my writing size is rather large.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

Damien Alomar: And so the fine just did not make my handwriting look all that good. Sure. Um, but I actually, I mean, it wasn't so horrible cause I did actually buy a second one at one point. Um, but I started kind of looking around at other pens and Chinese pens. Uh, those were what I, what I kind of got into a lot very early on as well, just to try and try different things and look at different options.

Brad Dowdy: So what was kind of like your, your first like step up pin? When's the, when's the first time you spent an uncomfortable amount of money on a fountain pen? That's a question I always enjoy because it's, it's usually for those of us who've been doing this for a long time, like back in the day, like $50 would have been just a mind blowing amount of money to spend on a fountain pen. And, and we just like have a panic attack. So what was that first pen for you?

Attending the 2018 Baltimore Pen Show

Damien Alomar: Uh, so I went to the 2018 Baltimore pen show. Okay. Um, and I, I was clueless. I didn't know what I was getting into. I didn't know what was going on, anything. And I got to the show and just was like completely overwhelmed. And I had a couple of things on my sort of checkbox, uh, but I really didn't buy anything at the show. But when I got back home from the show, I had been looking at a nemesine fission. Uh, which was their metal bodied pen. And it actually had like a screw to post type thing on it. And it was $30. And I was like, am I really going to spend $30 on a pen?

Brad Dowdy: This is like twice as much as the Metropolitan.

Damien Alomar: Oh my gosh. I was like, you know, I I've obviously since like.

Damien Alomar: We're going to tell stories later. Yeah. It's like, you don't even want to see what's in my pen case right next to me right now. But, um, yeah, so that was, that was the first time where I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm spending this much on a pen. Um, and of course, $30 now. I don't, I don't, I don't.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Right. So, so what do you like now? So you mentioned like, so maybe the definer Japanese steel nib in the Metropolitan maybe wasn't a thing. What is like your kind of writings, your preferred writing setup now and even like a specific pen or ink or paper? Like what are your kind of, what's your go-to style? Like if you have, if you have a style of pen that you use, what, what fits the bill?

Damien Alomar: Well, I think pen is all over the map. Yeah. Um, paper is the easiest for me to say like, this is my thing. I'm a B5 user. Okay. Um, which doesn't leave me a ton of options, uh, in terms of notebooks and things like that. But the one B5 notebook that I, I mean, I probably have about seven or eight of them stashed away, uh, is the Stalogy 365 B5. Um, I really, that one is always getting cycled in. Um, and basically if I find other B5 notebooks, I'll try them sort of in between, uh, rotating with the Stalogy.

Brad Dowdy: Are those grid or dot?

Damien Alomar: They are a very, very light, uh, grid. So I'm not usually a grid person. Um, so like Rodeo grids, they really kind of stand out. Um, but the grid on the B5 Stalogy is, is very light. It's like a gray. Um, and it also has, um, I think it's like a five millimeter grid as well too. And so I write fairly large. So I usually need like an eight to 10 millimeter, um, line spacing. Wow. So most, yeah, most, um, most papers are actually sort of lined a little bit too fine for me. Um, it's like six or seven millimeter, like seven millimeter kind of cramps things a little bit.

Brad Dowdy: Dang. Yeah. All right. We, we, we would be on the opposite ends of the paper spectrum.

Damien Alomar: Oh yeah. You're, you are very much the opposite in terms of pen and nibs or nib and paper.

Brad Dowdy: I'm listening to someone who went to architecture school and it's not a fan of graph paper. It's like, how does that even happen? Maybe you just have like.

Damien Alomar: I don't mind graph paper. Um, it's just that for writing, uh, it tends to be a bit much.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. What's your go-to pen these days or what's your, what's a couple of your favorites?

Damien Alomar: I never, I never have like one, one pen that I go for that. I mean, I have, I think about 150 pens now. Um, and they're all over the map from, uh, Italian pens to Japanese pens, Urushi, um, custom work. Still, I still have several Chinese pens in my collection as well. Um, all over the place.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, um, do you have a favorite brand?

Brad Dowdy: See, I'm, I'm, I'm really trying to pin you down here. I'm working here.

Damien Alomar: I have a love, hate relationship with sailor. Uh, that's fair. That is completely fair.

Brad Dowdy: And that should be their new slogan. Like sailor, like just get a t-shirt sailor, uh, love, hate relationship. Like I'm, I'm down.

Damien Alomar: That's a whole other podcast itself. Um, I don't know. Um, I mean, a sailor, Nakaya, uh, Leonardo, if I had to pick three, those would be my go-to.

Brad Dowdy: Let me ask you this. Um, I, I'm, I'm trying to connect all the dots here. Sailor King of Pen nib. You like that? Do you have one of those? Oh yeah. I have one. Okay. Yeah. That sounds like you. That sounds like you.

Damien Alomar: I have, so I'll at least show the one that I have inked up. Uh, this is the, um, uh, King of Pen, uh, Seki. Yeah. Which is the gray ebonite that they came out with last year. Um, and I, this ebonite is just absolutely fantastic. I absolutely love it. Um, and this one has the Naginata broad nib on it. Yeah. I have, um, another King of Pen that's going out to Bokamundu right now. Um, I have one that Sean Newton. He did a complete rebody on for me in, uh, Brooks Cooltone primary manipulation. Um, that's super fun. I love that one.

Brad Dowdy: So I have, see, I did my job. I, I pulled it out of you. I did it. I do. I feel successful now.

Damien Alomar: The King of Pen is like my second favorite, uh, nib in my collection. It's like King of Pen versus pilot number 30. Those are, those two are up there.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So that makes a lot of sense given your writing style and just like how great it is. And, uh, yeah, so cool. All right. I, I feel accomplished now. I did it. I got, I got that pen for you and you had it right at hand too. Yeah, I know. All right. Let's get to what people, this is like me and Damien hanging out at the, hanging out at the bar and after show, like, Hey, tell me what you're like. People are like, Hey, get to the nibs, Brad, get to the nibs. Damien. I want to, I want to learn about nib grinding, how, how you got started, what I'm supposed to do when I go to a pen show to get a nib ground. So let's get into that. Let me talk about our first, uh, sponsor this week. And that is factor. This episode of the pen attic is brought to you by factor warmer, sunnier days are calling fuel up for them with factors. No prep, no mess meals, meet your wellness goals in time for summer. Thanks to the menu of chef crafted meals with options like calorie smart protein plus and keto factors, fresh, never frozen meals are dietitian approved and ready to eat in just two minutes. So no matter how busy you are, you'll always have time to enjoy nutritious, great tasting meals. Make today the day you kickstart a new healthy routine. So I have been able to use a factor for many months. Um, and the meals that take two minutes to make in the middle of my day, really complete like my, my eating goals for the day. They are wonderfully delicious. They are flavored extremely well for a meal. That's not frozen. You get out the fridge, pop it in the microwave. It's ready in two minutes and you just have this wonderful meal. So they've been super convenient, super easy to make. And I'm straight up delicious to eat. So there's so much to love about factor with 35 different meals and more than 60 add ons to choose from every week. You always have new flavors to explore. You can reach your wellness goals this may with dietitian approved meals and ingredients you can trust. And why not treat yourself to restaurant quality meals that feature premium ingredients like filet mignon shrimp and blackened salmon. You can keep kitchen time to a minimum to factor meals are ready in two minutes, no shopping, prepping, cooking, or cleaning up. So enjoy effortless support to your lifestyle. Choose from six menu preferences to help you manage calories, maximize protein intake, avoid meat, or simply eat well balanced. Head to factor meals.com slash pen addict 50. That's five Oh, and use the code pen addict 50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month. Active. Our thanks to factor for their support of this show and all of relay FM. All right, Damien nib grinds. What made you start working on nibs? Did you have a problem yourself? You want to try to fix it? Are you that type of person that's like, Hey, I got a problem. I'm going to try to fix it myself. Or did you see something that made you say, Hey, that looks pretty cool. I think I'm going to do that.

Damien Alomar: And so, as I said, I kind of went in and bought a bunch of Chinese pens very early on. And as you can imagine, those nibs are a little bit hit or miss. And I got a pen that was very much a miss. And so I started to kind of figure out if I could actually sort of tune it and make it right better. If anybody remembers Matt Armstrong or the pen habit, he had some great videos on how to tune a nib. And that was really kind of my gateway. And he still has those up, by the way, which is nice. I'll link to them. Yeah. Yeah. And so I had like a $4 Bauer 388, which is like a Parker Sonic clone or something like that. And it wrote horribly. And so I figured might as well try. At worst, I'm out $4. And was able to get that writing much better. But that pen still didn't work for me even after it wrote better. But that at least kind of got me started. And so when I went to the Baltimore 2018 show, one of the things on my list was to sort of figure out what this nib grind thing was all about because I had heard people online talking about it. And I did not do that. I was overwhelmed with the show. I think I sat down at a couple tables like Franklin Kristoff and maybe one of the other nibmeisters there to sort of try some of their grinds. And it didn't click for me at that point. But it was still something that was in my mind and I don't know, kind of somewhere there. And so I learned more about stub nibs and I had heard about these architect grinds. And so that NemoSign fission that I was mulling over, I did buy it. And for whatever reason, I decided that that would be, I wanted to put an architect grind on that. Dang. And I don't know if I found something online because there's not very many resources online for nib grinds or things like that or sort of how to do things. But I knew sort of what it needed to do in terms of how it was actually working, you know, putting ink to paper. And so I did that as my first grind and I enjoyed it. And a little bit after that, I went to my first DC pen crew meet him and I didn't know what to expect. And I walked into the room in the library and there were all these people there. They had, you know, like notebooks full of pens and all of these pens that I had only like heard of, hadn't even seen. And it wasn't just one person. It was, you know, at least a dozen and a half people there. And so I was very overwhelmed. I grabbed a chair in the corner, coincidentally sat next to Evan of Penquisition. And that was the first time I met him. And there's, you know, a lot of pens going around. I was very overwhelmed. I really didn't have very much to show. I think I had sort of my top tier pen at that point might have been like a diplomat arrow or something like that. And I didn't have anything interesting, but I at least had this nib grind. And so I handed it to a couple people and they were like, oh, this is really interesting. And I think that is really sort of the moment where it just went from the sort of thing I was randomly interested into to maybe there's something else here.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I'm going to kind of jump ahead before we jump back and thinking about your architect grind. What tools did you use for that very first architect grind?

Damien Alomar: I think it was. I don't know if I had actually gone out and bought some micro mesh. I actually think I did because I think I had some for tuning. And so I think I used that and did everything by hand.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. So you just worked it on the mesh until you got what you wanted.

Damien Alomar: Yeah. Gotcha. Which doing grinds completely by hand without sort of grinding stones or anything like that, it takes a while.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. That's a commitment right there. Okay. Okay. So we're going to get back into tools and things like that later. But I was curious on this first one, like how did you jump into that? So that meeting made you want to do a little bit more and start to experiment a little bit more? How did that track take you from there?

Damien Alomar: Yeah. So as I mentioned, there are a lot of members of the DC crew that have already had a lot of interesting nib grinds. And so I realized that a lot of these meetups are very hands-on. Yeah. If somebody brings something and you want to take a look at it, if you want to write with it, most of the time people are bringing them to share. Yeah. And so as I got a chance to write with a few more, you know, look at them under a loop, I sort of began to study more of other nibmeister's work and try to figure out how I could actually start to go through and grind that myself. And so I think somewhere in there, I actually went out and got a Dremel. So I was working with, you know, power tools instead of just doing things by hand, which helped make things go faster and destroy some nibs faster. Got to destroy some along the way.

Brad Dowdy: I imagine so. And is this, are you just buying like practice pens, like off eBay or wherever, like, like, like bulk Chinese pens, or are you just kind of like, you know what, I'm just going to go for changing the writing experience on the pens I like to write with?

Damien Alomar: I bought like, I think probably about 30 or 40 Chinese nibs, you know, just Jin Hao nibs that are 50 cents each, not even to go through and practice with. And that's definitely sort of where I started. And when people ask me, that's where I recommend they start to. I've had some people sit down with me and say they just started messing with their Visconti. I do not recommend that.

Brad Dowdy: But so how did, how did, how did you like focus on learning more? Did you were just, you know, watching videos? Do you sit with anybody? Like, how did, how was your learning process like? Because I say this out of just being like completely impressed by all nib grinders for the ability to take someone's precious writing implement and not screw it up. Like, that's a lot of pressure. It was like, and you eventually put yourself out there. It's like, I'm going to work on these other people's nibs. So what was your, what was your learning process like?

Damien Alomar: So I kept on grinding a lot of those cheaper Chinese nibs. And what I would do is I would basically kind of bring them to meetups and sort of lay them out there and have people try them and sort of give me some feedback.

Damien Alomar: And that was really kind of my early sort of process of learning. Yeah. So you got some great hands-on feedback. Yeah. And I, at that point I didn't get a chance to really, I didn't have sort of another nibmeister to look at my work or anything like that. The first time I really kind of got a chance to do that was at the Baltimore Pen Show in 2019 the following year.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm.

Damien Alomar: So there was, there was a lot of very, very helpful feedback from those, from those initial meetings of having people try things and saying what they liked, what they didn't like. There was, I probably wouldn't have gotten nearly as far without those early experiments.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. That's, that's a pretty valuable tool in the, the, the availability of like your, your local pen group. So that's a, that's another great shout out to anyone who is fortunate enough to have local pen groups to get this type of feedback from, especially when you're doing something, you know, as, as delicate and precise as, as grinding nibs. So you mentioned this 2019 Baltimore Pen Show. And apparently that's where we first met, first met, allegedly, I think. Was this at the, was this at the old, the downtown location?

Damien Alomar: So the 2018 show was like the one show that I think was like downtown. Okay. And then the 2019 show is when they were back by the airport. Okay. Gotcha. So at the 2019 show I had, I brought a couple of my grinds with me. Mm-hmm. And I think by the, you know, towards the end of the day, Saturday, I was kind of looking around and Linda Kennedy didn't have anybody sitting at her table at the time. And so I just kind of sat down in front of her and said, I was like, do you mind if you take a look at a little bit of my work and give me feedback? Because other than, you know, an average pen user, if you will, kind of giving me that feedback, I hadn't really gotten feedback from anybody who was really knew what they were doing. Mm-hmm. Really great feedback in a very short period of time.

Founding of "All in the Nib"

Damien Alomar: And also really kind of planted the seed for what would then become All in the Nib.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So when did, when did you actually finally make the push into All in the Nib? What, so you had that, you had that visit at the show and you, I guess, got enough feedback to like, I'm going to push this a little bit further. Right. Like, is that kind of how it went?

Damien Alomar: So there were, there were really kind of like two things that Linda said to me that really got me thinking long and hard about it. The first one was, she said, you know, like people like, you know, like her, like Richard, you know, like Myke Masayama, they're not going to be doing it forever. Mm-hmm. And that without, without someone else sort of taking up the charge, then the hobby as a whole would have fewer options. Mm-hmm.

Damien Alomar: And things like that. How do you meet those? Uh, and at the time I was very much grinding, um, and making adjustments for my personal taste, which is a different thing than what everyone else out there, uh, might want.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's awesome advice. And like, how did, how did you, I'm sure that like kind of made your brain explode because I'm, my brain's exploding just thinking about that, uh, that piece of advice. So like, how did, how did you translate that into like, okay, yeah, I'm going to look at it from a different perspective and then I'm going to start offering like my services to, to kind of solve some of these problems.

Damien Alomar: I had a couple of people in the DC pen crew that were, um, very gracious enough to let me work on, on their pens, even when I was very early on. Um, and so that really kind of was that stepping stone from where I was at the time to being able to actually go ahead and, and launch, you know, an actual service. And I felt confident enough with those, with the feedback that I got. Um, and I also started to explore other nib grinds beyond the ones that I was personally interested in. And so, you know, we talked about finer nibs versus the larger nibs that I, I like, I think after that, after that 29 peen pen show, I went back and really sort of began to work more on my needle points and figuring out how to really do that grind. Cause that was really the opposite of what I would want. And I, I mean, I have a lot of different grinds in my collection. I don't actually have a needle point.

Brad Dowdy: We're going to talk about like specific grinds later on in this episode, but I will say, since you said that, I, I have had, um, years ago, probably around that time, probably a little bit before that, probably 2017 or so. Um, Myke Masayama would yell at me like anytime I requested that, uh, needle point grind. And it's just like, we're going to talk about the challenges of the needle point grind. And I rarely get them anymore. It's like, I don't need, I don't need infinity needle point grinds. Like I need more, but, um, I have gotten in trouble for that many, many times. So, um, so when did all in the nib become a thing? Like, when did you, when did you, uh, hang that sign out, out there and say, Hey, we're open for business.

Damien Alomar: Uh, I think my first post on Instagram, which I guess is the official sort of, you know, uh, start of things was in the summer of 2019. Okay. Um, and it kind of debated a little bit beforehand about whether or not that was the right timing. Um, I had just gotten married and, you know, I was like, well, how much, how much time is this going to take of my life? And how much time do I have to give to it? Um, the answer to both of those questions is way more than I ever expected. Um, but it's still great. Um, and I figured it's like, if not now, when? And, uh, so I started putting things out there, got a small little static website set up and, and got ducks in a row to design myself a little logo and kind of went from there. And I didn't, I don't think things really kind of picked up until, um, really the end of 2019 and beginning of 2020, uh, did an event at pen boutique in Columbia, uh, which was a local event and that went well. And then the 2020 Baltimore pen show was really where things took off.

Brad Dowdy: Nice. Nice. Yeah. That's awesome. I definitely were. I definitely remember meeting you there, but.

Damien Alomar: Well, at the 2019 pen show, um, I, that was the first time I met Brad and it was for a completely sort of non nib related reason. And so at the time I was looking for sort of a very, I was looking for what my EDC setup would be. And I was looking for effectively like the smallest pocket notebook to fit like a Kwekos board. And that was it. Um, and one of my random sort of side hobbies at one point in time was actually doing, uh, um, alterations and clothes and doing some sewing. And so I'd actually sewn myself a little, um, EDC thing to actually have my notebook and my pen together. But I was looking for something better than what I had had. Cause it was not really that great. And at the time I wasn't super, super into the hobby. Like I know, like going to, to pen crew meetups, but like I wasn't listening to the podcast. I didn't know all of the various brands and things like that. And so I was looking around at tables and like, who would have something like this? And so I ended up at the knock table and Brad wasn't at the table. Somebody else was working behind the table. And so I pulled out this little thing that I made. I'm like, I'm looking for something like this that could, should be just like a small little pocket thing. And I'm like, do you have anything? And I think it was a woman behind the table. She's like, no, no, but, but come back later and try and find Brad. I'm like, who's Brad? He's like spiky hair, glasses and stuff. You'll recognize. You'll see. And so I left and continued to walk around the pen show. And, you know, as I kind of made the loop back, I kind of looked over and I saw Brad was back at the table. And so I went to the table and said, like, I told you I'm looking for you. And I guess somebody had told you because they had said, I'm looking for you too. And I had held out this little thing that I had made. And we started to have a discussion about what, what product knock has that could actually sort of fill that void. And you started talking to me about the fodder stock and how you didn't actually make it anymore. And interestingly enough, somebody was sort of eavesdropping on our conversation right next to us and had one right, right there and was trying to sell it. And so Brad, like, didn't have his own product because I guess you weren't making it anymore. And he had one that, you know, this other guy had one to sell. And so I bought a knock product at the knock table, but not from Brad and not from his stock that he bought.

Brad Dowdy: That's amazing. That's amazing. I, I, I've told the entire fodder stack story before, like the, the creation of it. Um, and I, I'm not going to overly elaborate on it, but it's a very simple case. That's almost like a, it's basically a pocket protector, right? It holds like a notebook and a pen and it's super slim. Um, and when Jeff made that, um, like he, it's, it's a design kind of like magic to put this case together in the way that he did it. So much so that when we went to outside manufacturing, the vendor that we used flew to our shop and took video of him putting that case together. And if you know anything about the fodder stack, you look at it and you go like, it's just a piece of fabric. Like this is the most simple thing ever. It is exceedingly complex to build that case. Um, so yeah, like we had to shoot video, like of all the other cases we make, we didn't have to, we have plans and diagrams and measurements and all that. That one, we had to shoot video on exactly how we did it. So it was this little bit, little bit of magic. So I'm, I'm, I'm glad you were able to get one and I'm glad you told that story.

Damien Alomar: And I still have it today. I still use it. I don't, I mean, working from home, I don't really grab the house nearly as much as I used to, but you know, when I leave the house, I grab it and it is, it is deceptively simple. It's like, it's perfect in the sense of it just does exactly what it needs to do. Nothing else, nothing more, nothing less. And I'd like, I don't know how I would put it together the way you have it put together. It's very intricate in how it has the, the, um, the, the seams and everything done and it's hidden really nicely. And I can't imagine how that.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Especially like you who, who knows, you know, what they're doing. Like anytime you're tailoring sewing, any type of thing, you like understand these concepts and it's just like, I don't get it. I don't get it. So that's one of the products I get yelled at the most about the most these days that we don't, that not no longer exists and we don't have. So who knows? Maybe one of these days, maybe one of these days. All right. I want to get back more into, into nibs and talk about, um, your pen show experience. I'm talking about like, I want to talk about, um, what people can expect when they come see you at a pen show or if they, you know, choose to get a nib grind online. But let me, uh, let me first, before I do that, let me talk about our second sponsor today, our good friends at Canalea Pen Co. So this episode of the Pen Addict is brought to you by the Canalea Pen Co. Canalea Pen Co. makes stunningly beautiful pens inspired by images of Hawaii. Canalea's founders, Hugh and Carol, believe that these locations can help recharge our spirit and help connect us with nature. We want to remind you about Canalea's newest release, the Blue Moana Collection. For this pen, Canalea are taking inspiration from the beautiful blue expanse of the ocean with deep swirling glistening blues found throughout the pen. Showing both the beauty and the depths of the oceans around the islands of Hawaii. The Blue Moana Collection features fountain pens in Canalea's five profile options, as well as a ballpoint pen. And with this new collection, Canalea have introduced a new band option. The Mauloa Band. The Mauloa Band visually represents the endless waves of the ocean, symbolizing the interconnectedness of all living things. And it's the perfect match with the ocean theme of the Blue Moana Pen. Once again, this band is made of lovingly crafted Argentium silver, making an already special pen even more so. This joins the existing band options, the Mailele, which are both available on the classic profile of this pen. And now, beginning today, Canalea are offering the new Mauloa Band as an option to all their current designs that offer the Mailele Band, as well as all fountain pens going forward. So now you have even more ways to make your Canalea unique to you. Canalea fountain pens feature Yovo number six nibs, and you can buy steel or 18 karat gold nibs direct from Canalea. They offer sizes from extra fine to 1.1 millimeter stub, and hues, smooth, and tunes every nib before it leaves their shop, so that your Canalea pen will write beautifully straight out the lovely black walnut keepsake box. With each purchase of a pen from the Blue Moana Collection, Canalea will be making a donation to the Maui Food Bank and the Maui Humane Society, giving back to the communities that inspire these wonderful designs. You can find out more about Canalea's whole offering and place an order today at CanaleaPenCo.com. Our thanks to Canalea Pen Co. for their support of this show. All right. Speaking of pen shows, Canalea was just at the Chicago pen show. I have seen you at Baltimore and D.C. pen shows. So what is the pen show experience like for you as a working nib grinder at a pen show? I will go first and say it looks very intense from where I sit on the opposite side of the table. Y'all are some of the busiest people in the show all weekend long. So tell me about that.

Damien Alomar: Yeah, I mean, a good pen show, I wind up being busy really from the beginning of Friday all the way till Sunday. So I don't really get very much of a break. I usually schedule myself a little bit of a break in the middle of the day, but don't get that much of a chance to peel myself away from the table. I usually do appointments, like half an hour appointments rather than actual day of signups. And the way I kind of say it's that half an hour is your time if you're sitting down with me. And so some people will sit down with one pen and we take a look at that one pen and it takes as long as it takes. And if it takes 10 minutes, if it takes a half an hour, it's done. And then other people will just sit there and unroll their pen roll and be like, let's get to as many as we can. Either one, either way works.

Brad Dowdy: What should people expect when they come to a show and are sitting with you for the first time or any nib grinder for the first time? What do, I guess, attendees need to know from your perspective about coming and hanging out with you, spending their half hour, and it's their first time and they don't know what to do or are they doing the right thing? So what are some tips for the first time nib grinding experience that you can share with us?

Damien Alomar: There are a lot of people who sit down with me for the first time and they don't know exactly what they want. And that's completely okay.

Damien Alomar: Nibwork is a sort of its own rabbit hole. There's a lot that goes into it. And the first time you're sitting down with a nib meister, it's really more about what you like and enjoy about pens and what you're looking like, why you're basically wanting to have a given pen worked on. And so hopefully you have something in your collection that you enjoy writing with. Why do you like that? Oh, does it put down a wetter line? Does it put down a finer line? Do you like the variation that you have with a stock 1.1 stub or something like that? That kind of information is really great to know. If there's anything particular about how you write. And so do you hold your pen a certain way? Do you use a lot of pressure? Are you a lefty? All those kind of things. Those will help inform what options may or may not work for you. And then myself and pretty much all the nib grinders out there, we all have testers on our tables. Please pick them up, write with them, ask questions about them, because that's really the best way to get a sense of what those grinds might feel like. And you might like the smoothness of a stub, but the variation of a cursive italic really appeals to you. You may have never gotten a chance to write with an architect before, and so that might be an option. I try to make sure that I have all of the grinds that I offer, the standard grinds, if you will, in testers. And so one of the things I make sure that I have is actually a left oblique and a right oblique for a tester. Because a lot, you know, oblique nibs are very, they're not really common to come by anymore, for better or for worse. And especially most of the time, those are going to be left obliques rather than right obliques. And for someone like a lefty, maybe that right oblique is a little bit better suited to them.

Brad Dowdy: So are you able to kind of look at someone's handwriting and kind of get like a general idea of like the angles that they're holding the pen at? Like the, you know, not just the, like the angle of the nib hitting the page, but how much, you know, their wrist might be cocked in a certain direction. And does that affect how you work on the nibs for each individual person?

Damien Alomar: It definitely affects sort of the refinement process of the overall grind and smoothing and things like that. And so with different writing angles and different and slightly different rotations, different people are going to sort of hit a different sweet spot on the tip of the nib. And making sure that that works for you and is nice and smooth or has the feeling for you is really important. That's one of the biggest things of, you know, getting that writing angle right. You know, higher writing angles are typically a little bit more challenging to tune for, but that's very easy to see at a show. And so those kind of things are one of the benefits of actually sitting down with the nibmeister and being able to have that conversation. And it's very much a back and forth. It's not a, I'm doing something and I hand it to you and say, there you go, thank you very much. It's a back and forth conversation of what do you not like? What's working for you? What's not working for you? Would you like smoother? Or would you like more feedback? All these kind of things. And so we sort of, you know, those testers and those sort of stock grinds are where things start, but they will sort of go in whatever direction it winds up going based on the feedback that you give and some of the things that I might observe from how you're writing. Right.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So that's, that's, that refinement process is why you're going to the show to get these grinds, right? Like we could buy us, I could buy like a stock nib grind and just have you send me a nib in the mail and pop it in whatever pen I want. But to get it like really, really customized for me, my style, my writing angle, you know, sitting with you is just going to benefit, benefit that so much. So like, if I came and sat and say, okay, let's do a cursive italic nib and like, that's just the starting point. Like you're saying, right? Like you're okay. We can do, we can do the bulk of the grind right now. And okay, here's kind of like, we started it and you're going to hand it back to me and I'm going to go, I like this. I don't like that. I feel this. I don't feel that. And then we just go back and forth. It's like this little dance, you know, where we're passing the pen back and forth. And then we go, yep, this is it. At the end, that's what I always say is like, yep, done. We got it. Yeah.

Damien Alomar: And it might be things like, you know, ink flow, line width, all of those things we can sort of adjust along the way. Yeah. Because there's always going to be that little something. Even if it, you know, I hand the pen back and it still feels good. There's almost always something. And if I hand a pen to somebody and they, you know, I do my grind smoothing everything and they're like, oh, this is perfect. You know, this is good. And put it in their bag. I'm like, wait, wait a second. There's got to be, there's got to be something else, anything else. And usually, you know, not that it's, it's, you know, in horrible shape, but it, there's always that little extra level of refinement and matching, matching your preferences as closely as possible.

Brad Dowdy: So when someone brings you a pen to get work on, on, on the pen, do you want the ink cleaned out of the pen?

Damien Alomar: So I should, I've almost thought about putting like a flow chart together on this question. Because it's, it's not that complicated, but at the same time, it's not a straightforward answer either. So if, if you're getting a grind for me, please clean out the pen. An inked pen grinding is just going to fling ink everywhere. If I'm doing a tune, it's really kind of whatever you have. If the pen's clean, then that's fine. If it depends ink, that's fine. If you're specifically having flow issues for the pen, then I'd probably prefer to bring it inked. I can always ink it there at the show, but it's easier when things have been, you know, an ink's been in the pen a little while. It's been sitting a little while. That gets more of the characteristics that you'll have when you're using it on a day-to-day basis.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, that's some good points. And you've led me right into like the services that you provide. It's not just, hey, can I get an architect, you know, nib grind on this pen? And, you know, what, what all do you offer as far as not just nib grinds, but like services? And then what types of nib grinds do you offer? I mean, you don't have to go through the whole menu, but like you do some weird stuff.

Damien Alomar: Yeah. So I try to, I try to offer as many nib grinds as possible. You know, we kind of use the term nib grinder. Some people say nibmeister. Yeah. Nibmeister, nib master. Well, if all you do is a stub grind, are you a nib master? I don't know. And yeah, that can be the best stub grind in the world. But, you know, I want to make sure that my repertoire is as extensive as possible. And so italic family grinds, architects, Naginata style grinds. So I have a grind that I call a cutlass that's a very architect-like, but Naginata style. Um, there's, um, flex nibs. Uh, I don't do, I have a certain style of flex that I do. Um, and that's not some, like I'll have those nib units at the show. I won't necessarily do that kind of modification at the show, but those are like 14 karat flex that are a little bit more. They're not for maximum line width, but they're for really nice, soft brush-like feel. Uh, started to work on stack nibs and do my own stack nibs. I've done grinds on, uh, Penzloth, uh, Jim Crawford's nibs before and took the, took the jump into the deep end and actually starting to do my own stacks now.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. I have, I have one of your Penzloth, uh, grinds that I use. Uh, actually I just used it recently in a, in a Skogsy pen that I bought. So that's a, that's a, that was a fun experiment experiment for me because it's, it's way out of the norm for my usual writing, but it's like, I like to push doing this long enough. You want to push yourself in, in different ways and I'll throw that back to you. Um, do you see any like changes coming, uh, as far as nib grinds? Do you start to see, um, certain grinds becoming popular? Do you see any experimentation possibilities as far as your work goes in the future? I know that's kind of a, a broad all over the place question, but, uh, tell me, uh, predict the future, please Damien.

Damien Alomar: Oh, okay. Uh, you can start writing this down now. Um, I, I don't really know sort of where the future goes in terms of, um, in terms of sort of the nib grind rabbit hole, um, and what grinds will be popular and what aren't. Um, I see differences in popularity of certain grinds from show to show from year to year. Uh, so there is certainly, uh, there's, there's kind of an ebb and flow of how grinds sort of become a little bit more popular or less popular. And a lot of times, you know, that might be somebody giving it more attention on their Instagram feed and people wondering what that's about. Um, or people trying to experiment beyond, uh, the grinds that they already have in their collection. So that's something that I get fairly often of, I already have this grind in that grind. So what other grinds can I actually kind of go for? Unless you start having a lot of, you know, big chunk of tipping, uh, there's, there's kind of a limit to what you can do. Um, and so there's always, you know, what I call hybrid grinds, but some people call reversible grinds. So those are grinds on kind of the normal, normal orientation and reverse side of the nib. Um, those are, I actually think really helpful and useful for just versatility of, um, you know, being able to do different things with the nib and, and have it, um, not having to carry multiple pens in a certain situation. So, you know, need to take quick notes. Like I really like reverse architects for things like that. Um, just because you can make small notes and then, you know, flip it around and make bigger notes and things like that. And you have that all right there, you don't have to worry about, uh, sort of taking another pen, uncapping it, et cetera. Uh, so that's a little quicker.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I should probably dabble in that a little bit more. I have like one or one or two type of reversible nibs. Cause I, I generally just avoid using like the flip side. Just, just like a, you know, like a mental block, right. You know, seeing the feed side up kind of, kind of thing has just been a mental block for me. But on the couple that I do have, I was like, oh, you know, this is kind of nice that I, that have this option.

Damien Alomar: And, and I, I don't do a lot of reverse, reverse writing either. Um, it's not something that I feel the need to end up in a situation where it's all that usable for me personally. Yeah. Um, but it is something that, you know, it's another option out there. And so it's maybe not for everybody. There's usually some compromises that have to be made in order to make the grinds on both sides work. Um, mainly kind of on ink flow because in reverse orientation, you don't get the same kind of ink flow characteristics as you do, um, when the nib is oriented correctly. Yeah. So there's some compromises there, but it's, it's a trade-off and everybody sort of has different requirements and is looking for different things. And that might work for some people.

Brad Dowdy: What nib grind do you think you're the best at?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I'm putting this is, this is, we, we've, we've gone, you know, I've set you up this whole show. I've been nice, you know, been nice, ask you fair, open-ended questions. Now, now's the time where I put you on the spot cause I've got you now. Uh, so what, like, what's your, what's your favorite, like, what grind do you feel like you nail? Like, oh man, I just nailed this stub. Like, uh, the stub is like not that complicated. It was like, but dang, I'm really good at that.

Damien Alomar: I mean, I really do enjoy a really, really nice stub. I do too. I do too. I don't necessarily, I'd go out of, go out of my way to say that I'm the best at anything. Um, yeah, we're, we're actually, I think as a community, really lucky that we have a lot of really great talented Nibmeisters out there. There's a lot of different options. Um, and they all do a really fantastic job. Exactly. So I'm not going to go out there and say I'm the best at any of them, but I know that, um, you know, I'd probably one of my favorite grinds to actually grind, uh, are Naginata style grinds. So the, the cutlass grind that I offer, um, I really enjoy doing as well as just sort of your standard Naginata style. They're really interesting and there's, you know, I talk about sort of when you're sitting down at a, at a pen show and kind of diverting from the sort of stock line, there's, there's a bunch of sort of ways those Naginata style grinds can be varied and adjusted to get sort of different characteristics. And it is incredibly hard for me to sort of describe how some of the different shapes can do different things when you actually start to put ink on the page.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I, it's really cool. That's something I've experimented with and have a few, um, that's a nib. I, that nib style I enjoy writing with, and I don't have one of yours yet. So that'll be on the list for a future show. Um, for sure. I want to rewind back to that needle point mention earlier. Can you explain to our listeners why that is such a difficult, time consuming, expensive nib grind compared to say like a stub or a cursive metallic and, and things like that. So is, is that fair to put on the needle point? Like I'm a huge needle point fan, but like I'm paying, you know, a premium to get that because it takes a lot more time.

Damien Alomar: So what's, what's that process like for, for me personally, I wouldn't necessarily say it's a time thing.

Brad Dowdy: Mm hmm.

Damien Alomar: I would actually say that it's really about not having very much of a margin for error.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Damien Alomar: It's a safety thing where you kind of have to, you kind of have to hit it. And if you don't, you're ended up with either no tipping or something that's incredibly scratchy. Uh, so, you know, that's, people are actually surprised that I, I prefer to, to grind needle points from fines as opposed to extra fines. Okay. Um, and not that I want like, you know, Hey, here's my double broad, make me a needle point. Sure. Um, but oddly enough, having more tipping to work with a needle point actually makes it a little bit easier.

Brad Dowdy: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Damien Alomar: Um, and so the geometry that needs to happen in order to make a line that's fine, but also make something that is smooth is, it's very sort of delicate. There's not very much room for error. You're working on effectively the smallest amount possible. Um, the other contributing factor is that most of the time when I do a needle point, there'll be flow adjustments as well. And so that grind typically comes along with a lighter ink flow. And that's actually one of the other things that helps make it a little bit smoother as well. So you feel the slit of the nib a little bit less is less when, when the tines are a little bit closer together.

Brad Dowdy: Mm hmm. Yeah. So I, I'm sitting here, you're talking about this as like, man, I need to go ink up a needle point. I just, I love like a good, a good needle point is it's really difficult. It's really delicate. But for someone like myself, like sometimes it's just like, oh yeah, this is the best. This is the best. So, all right. So is there anything else that people coming to see you at a pen show or shopping online or, you know, anything like that? Anything else, um, for this, uh, the nib grinding experience you want to share? Sure.

Damien Alomar: I guess if you have a question to ask, I'm always happy to answer a question. Um, if there's something that you are not seeing in the testers, you're not seeing, um, when you're sitting down with me or an option available, just ask. Um, as much as, yeah, there's sort of a standard menu. I'm not super strict as to, oh, well, this is all we offer and that's all we're going to do. Yeah. So if you have something in mind, hey, put it out there and I'll probably be like, yeah, sure. Let's do that. Yeah. Um, I need to, I have a post that I need to put onto Instagram about, uh, a zoom that's gone to a sharp cursive italic oblique and like, okay, all right. Okay. I'll make that work. And just handwriting wise, it just looks really cool.

Brad Dowdy: One of my least favorite nibs ever. The zoom nib, the sailor zoom nib. But for a nib grinder, it's like the best. I love some nibs. I got mine. I, the only one I ever had, I got put into an architect nib and it was just awesome. But like, I literally never used it because it was just huge and annoying to me. But for someone else, it's like the perfect, the perfect setup.

Damien Alomar: So big fat architects ground, zooms, courses and things like that. Those are, I literally have like two of those right now.

Upcoming pen shows and local events

Brad Dowdy: All right. Well, as we wrap this up, I want to know, uh, where people, uh, are people going to be able to see you at a pen show, uh, later this year? What's your, what's your schedule look like?

Damien Alomar: So I will be at the DC pen show as well as the San Francisco pen show this year. Nice. I had to take last year off for the birth of my son, but back at both of those shows. I'm very excited about that. Um, might be going to one additional pen show, um, after San Francisco before the end of the year and then show calendar starts back up and Philly is in January. It goes so fast.

Brad Dowdy: That always sneaks up. Always sneaks up. And then you do local events in and around Maryland, Virginia, DC area sometimes.

Damien Alomar: Yeah, I will be, uh, at Bert's, uh, Bertram St. Quill in Rockville. Uh, I've been trying to go about once a month or so. Uh, but especially with other pen shows on the schedule, that gets a little bit, uh, more challenging. Um, I wanted to go to stationary fest, but calendars is not, uh, not allowing that this year. That's man. That looks like a super fun event. Yeah, for sure.

Brad Dowdy: Um, all right. So, uh, where can people find you online? So I'll, I'll make sure we put all these links in the show notes so people can come check out your work.

Damien Alomar: So you can find me all in the nib.com is my site. Uh, Instagram slash all in the nib, uh, is my Instagram feed. Um, most of my sporadic posts are there.

Damien Alomar: I'm not the best. I need to step up my Instagram game. I'm horribly, horribly behind on that. I'm the same way. Yeah. Those are really the two best places to find me on the pen addict slack as well, too.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And, uh, I really appreciate you being here. You can find me, uh, on Instagram at pen addict, uh, you know, on, uh, Mastodon at pen addict, Twitch at pen addict, pen addict. Dot com is where the blog's at and where you can see, uh, an article that we, uh, we posted that I mentioned earlier. Um, my friends, Sam got a grind from Damien, uh, at the Baltimore pen show earlier this year and wrote about that experience. So that was pretty cool.

Damien Alomar: Yeah. That was a great article. Thank you, Sam.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would actually like to do more of that because it's a very specific, unique little thing to do. So, um, we'll get you out of here on that. Uh, I really appreciate your time today and, uh, we will see you at a pen show in the future until next time. Say goodbye, Damien. Goodbye, Damien.

Damien Alomar: I'll see you next time.