The Pen Addict 583/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	583
Title:	The Soft Stuff
Release Date:	September 27th, 2023
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	Mike Matteson
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 583
Audio File:	Audio Episode 583
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 583
Length:	6565 min <br />1.083 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Madison: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 583. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace and Factor. My name is Myke Madison. I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi, Brad. Hey, Myke. How are you? Doing awesome, man.

Brad Dowdy: Nailed it so hard. You told me we're going to do this. The minute it came out of your mouth, I'm like, yes, we're going to do it. And I've already ruined it because I'm trying not to laugh while you're doing it because you did such a perfect job. I mean, we can do it again. If you want another take, we can... Oh, no. Gosh, it was beautiful. Myke is not going to know what to do when he hears this, to edit this. Yeah, I love the fact that he doesn't know already. Yeah, he has no clue. And that's how we keep it when Myke's away. So if y'all didn't notice, we have a different Myke here today. Third time podcast guest now, Myke Madison. It has been so long when I was looking at the dates, right? Yeah. I forget what dates I was on last, but it was like episode 300 or something was the last.

Myke Madison: Yeah. Some 300-ish.

Brad Dowdy: 364. I'll actually have the links in the show notes. Wow. So yeah, that's like three, four years ago, which it's funny when I talk to people all the time like you. Like you and I probably talk every week, right? Oh, yeah. You don't realize that, hey, we haven't actually done a podcast in a while. Because it's like, oh, yeah, I talk to Myke all the time. And yeah, you forget that. Wow, it's been a while. I should have you back on. So I think we have some fun stuff to talk about today. We're going to talk about what you've been up to. Maybe not all the way since we last spoke, but maybe what you've been up to recently. A three-year recap or whatever it is. Yeah. My memory is not that long. I don't want to speak for you, but I don't know what I was doing three days ago, much less three years. So we're going to talk about that. I have tasked you very, very passively. I didn't say, Myke, this is exactly what we're doing and this is what I expect. But I thought you would be a really good guest to talk about pen shows with since you've been to a bunch this year. I've been to a bunch this year. And is it possible to create the perfect pen show? I don't know. Me and you will talk about that later in the show. And yeah, so we're just going to talk today, do a little bit of live catching up instead of just us texting each other or watching each other on Twitch. We'll do all this. So, okay, Myke. So what I'm going to get started with today is congratulating you on 10,000 YouTube subscribers.

Reaching 10,000 Subscribers

Myke Madison: Thank you very much, Brad. I appreciate that. Yeah, it was kind of awesome to hit 10,000. I wasn't really watching the numbers and I was surprised.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Like what number did you realize or did someone say to you, hey, you're at like 9988?

Myke Madison: You know, that's usually what happens is that somebody like Audrey will look at my channel because I don't really see when I look at my stats and stuff. I don't usually go to that page that shows the total subscribers. But when people look at my page, it's right there. And so my wife said, oh, hey, you're like right about to hit 10,000.

Brad Dowdy: And our friend Kimberly was actually at dinner with somebody and she said, oh, Myke's about to hit 10,000. Like I'm not subscribed to that. And so they hit the I know who the 10,000th person was. So that was pretty neat. Yeah, that's cool. So give me the big picture, your big picture YouTube ideas, because now I'm looking at you have 10.2K subscribers. So you are you have escalated quite quickly here recently. So what do you like about creating for YouTube?

Myke Madison: The thing I like about creating for YouTube is that I kind of do whatever I want to do over there. I don't I try not to pay too much attention to algorithm based things, which I'm sure, you know, slows down recognition and that kind of thing. But whatever, like I do pens, I do ink, I do stationery. We do live streams at least once a week over there on YouTube. My wife, Audrey and I. And it's really great to sort of like building a community over there, which I think has become my favorite thing. I became a YouTuber accidentally. Like, I just started doing little videos for water tests for my static, you know, inkdependence.com blog. And I didn't realize that they were being posted on YouTube. I thought they were just kind of hanging out in a file folder somewhere on Google's, you know, infrastructure. But I started getting comments like, hey, what's this blog you keep mentioning, which, you know, clued me in. Oh, yeah, there's a YouTube thing out there. But since, you know, I don't know, the last 10 or something years, 12 years, I don't actually remember. The community that has grown has been amazing. I mean, I have a super supportive and like friendly, like interactive community. And I love that the most, I think.

Brad Dowdy: Isn't that great that we get to say that about the stationery community? I don't think everyone's as fortunate as we are in the stationery community as a whole. Like anyone from like makers, creators, you know, just friends in the community are all super supportive of everybody. You know, everyone wants to see everyone succeed. Everyone wants to have fun and be accessible to like all kinds of different people and just help people out. And I see that a lot in your content as well, right? Like, especially like, hey, you're making these ink reviews a lot of times for people to see what are these things about? And you're like, let me show you.

Myke Madison: Yeah, it's a really, I'm really fortunate to be able to do that. I mean, I have more ink than anyone should reasonably have. But like, I'm not hitting the top 10 on fountain pen companion or anything. But, you know, I'm up there, I guess. And I've gotten to experience a lot of inks and pens and that sort of thing. And it gives me an excuse to keep growing my accumulation.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I think that's our justifications that we're always looking for. That's right. Right. Oh, I can use this for YouTube or I can write an article about this. So I've probably asked you this in previous episodes, but why YouTube as opposed to written and photographed content for the most part? I mean, you have plenty of articles up on the Incompendence blog as well, but you've definitely focused on YouTube more. Is there a particular reason?

Focusing on YouTube and Community Interaction

Myke Madison: The last few years, I've really been focusing on YouTube more because there's more interaction with the community. When you have a when you put up a blog post, I mean, you can kind of see stats and you can see that people are looking at it. But commenting is much more rare, I think, on blog posts. There's not as much interaction. Also, I think YouTube is just and video in general is just a superior medium for showing things like pens and such, because I mean hats off to people who do a lot of pen photography. It is hard. And it's hard to do ink photography even, although that's a little bit better than, you know, a little bit easier than pens. But with video, you can move things around and you can show different facets of things. You can get your hands in the thing and sort of show people how it goes. And I think that that's really appealing to me. So while I do still put stuff on the blog, it has kind of hit back burner for me because it's hard to do all things at once, you know. So that's, yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. So number one, to this day, I hate product photography. Like that's one of my weaknesses. Number two, I think you're exactly right. And it's kind of weird when you think about the YouTube comments, which, you know, for the non-stationery people, don't go read the comments. But for the stationery people, you should read the comments because that's where all the action happens. And it's strange to me. I guess it's maybe because people are sitting there. They're interacting with you as you're going through the process, going through the video. They get, you know, five, six, ten minutes with you while they're sitting and watching you. And something comes up, they're very willing to just open the chat box and write a comment and ask a question, make a comment and things like that. As opposed to a blog, no one's stopping, you know, a third of the way through the blog says, oh, I'm going to make this comment now and come back and check this and read some more words and make another comment. Like that's just not how blogs work. So the YouTube comment section is super value. And I like to see that. That's pretty cool. So with the inks that you're doing, I guess let me ask it like this. What's the hardest content to make for YouTube? Is it inks? Like, do you worry about like getting things? People say this is not what the color looks like.

Myke Madison: You know, I don't think it's I don't think that's too bad because everybody I think at this point knows that everybody's monitor is a little bit different and everybody's camera stuff is a little bit different and that sort of thing. So there are certain kinds of ink that are really difficult to represent accurately. So I recently did some videos for the second Pilot Yurumiku set. And honestly, I've been putting that off for like months because those inks are so weird that it's very difficult to represent them on camera. And so I put those off for a bit or purples for whatever reason. Purples are ridiculously hard to get accurate. And so the way I try to get around that is by giving some color comparisons at the end. And I try to show things that are like kind of on either side of a color or things that are very popular colors that people might have some experience with. So they can see how that relates to, you know, the one we're talking about there. But I think the hardest content has got to be I mean, you do these to like top 10 or, you know, top X, whatever. People really like that kind of content, but it is really hard to do. And I think pen reviews are also can be pretty hard because it's difficult. Even though when you're even when you're showing a product, it can be difficult to explain the tactile nature of that thing because showing it to you like this is how it fits in my hand. But it's hard for me to describe the the weight and the heft and the balance and the just sort of the the intangible the intangible bits of the tangible experience of a product. You know what I'm saying? So that can be difficult.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Yeah. Those are the things I think about when I'm writing a lot. Like I feel pretty good about pen reviews and I've like over the years I've done so many and I feel very comfortable with like stating my opinion, but also trying to relate it to the broader product scope just for other people to like. Be able to get some information about the product as opposed to just me saying, yes, this is good or yes, this is bad because or no, this is bad because that's like completely irrelevant to like the broader conversation, whether I like it or not. But then also, Brad, what are your top 10 pens? Right. So like like it's exactly what you're saying. And then and then the other part about trying to describe things, I'm literally holding the platinum Kyridos as like my pen to like write show notes with today. I'm just thinking about what you said. It's like, do you know how hard it is to describe this pen in words? Yeah. Myke's showing me his. Myke has the gray. I have blue. We both have the new version. This is a very complicated pen to explain in words, even in video. Right. Because there's a lot going on and it's definitely you need to feel it more than listening to me or you say something about it. So give me give me your quick platinum Kyridos review. What do you think about the pen since we both have it right here?

Myke Madison: Yeah, I actually really like the Kyridos. I must have six of these things. This is the only matte version that I have. And I just got this at the DC pen show a couple of months ago, I guess, at this point. And it's a pen that I know people have like a particular impression of that pen from when it came out. They were translucent colors and they were like they looked kind of like they look kind of young and they look kind of like a toy in some ways. You know what I'm saying? Right. They're kind of they're see through and they got all these moving parts and that's cool. But I really I've been trying to get this matte version into people's hands. Like I took it to Pelican Hub with me because I was like, you need to feel this one because it feels different. There's something just like kind of luxurious about the soft matte feel of this pen. I like the I like the serious click it gives, even though it has a really long knock on it. But it's it's I like it. I like the Kyridos.

Brad Dowdy: It's it's quite good. I'm with you. And I'm like almost hesitant to like praise it because people just want to dog it. Yeah, I was like, it's kind of good. It's like so one of the ways I judge pens is I will use anything. But if I stop using it and don't ever want to pick it up, then I that kind of tells me a lot. And I keep picking the Kyridos up like it stays here on my desk. I keep picking it up. I like the nib. Right. I have a fine nib in mind. Same. Platinum's fine steel nibs are just awesome. Like I just like picking it up. I like that it's retractable. I like that. It's kind of weird. Right. Like that's that's a bonus in my book. So, yeah, so I am pro Kyridos. I definitely see some problems with it, of course. But I I hope they keep going with it. And I was actually hoping to see more in this. And this is something this is a stance I've had in a while. It's like I wanted to see a V2. And like we got we got like the 1.5 version. But I just hope it doesn't go away because I think they need to continue to make it.

Myke Madison: I think this might be like a 1.75 version. You know, it's like another small increment. I think there are some refinements that they've made to the internals a little bit. Like I think the door is a bit more reliable on the front and, you know, some things like that. But they're definitely it's not perfect yet. And, you know, I want to I want to see it really be a competitor for some of the other, you know, clicky pins like a vanishing point, which I also love.

Pelikan Hubs and Fountain Pen Community

Brad Dowdy: Same, same. Completely agree. All right. You mentioned Pelican hubs. And I wasn't sure when I was making the notes for this if you were going. But I was I was thinking about adding this to the notes. Can you give me a quick synopsis of your local Pelican hub and your experience?

Myke Madison: Yeah, we had our Pelican hub in a little town kind of outside of Raleigh. It's the it was the Raleigh Pelican hub, I believe. But we were actually in the little town of Hillsborough, which is kind of like a I don't know. It's like it's a cute, small, artsy kind of town. And we had it in the public library there, which was a great space. And we had, I don't know, 40 some odd people at least show up to our little Pelican hub, which was pretty great. And there were a lot of people I didn't know there, which was awesome. So it was pulling from a wider area than our usual club. We had we got free ink. Everybody loves that. Crazy Allen's Emporium, which has just been been bought by a couple that I got to meet last night at the Pelican hub. They were delightful. I like what they're doing with this shop. I'm glad we still have a local pen shop, which is amazing. They contributed, you know, some Rodia notebooks and that sort of thing to go along with the inks. We had, you know, the little slideshow from Pelican, which was fun. People were talking Pelicans and just kind of like brought a bunch of pens for people to see. So a lot of people that were there with a bunch of like binders full of pens, which was pretty rad. I really like these get togethers. And it's cool that Pelican's doing a thing like that worldwide.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I am always been impressed by the Pelican hubs. I have never been to one one of these years. I need to make the trip to one or I guess I could run one myself and get like three people in the middle of nowhere where I live. But I could go up to Atlanta and just do it. I just I just need to do it one day. But it seems like a great experience. And I hope the new ownership continues this. Right. I think that's probably like a little bit of a question, but I don't see why they wouldn't. It's just such a good event for them. But I know it probably takes them just like a ton of work and things like that to coordinate everything, because this is like a worldwide event. And I've seen just like tons of tons of pictures on Instagram following everybody. I know there's going to just be more. It was kind of like a weekend long event, depending on where you were in the world. Keep an eye on these. But I'm glad to see that y'all got some new people there because Raleigh is always Raleigh is a good pen town. Y'all have a good pen club and things like that. And to get new people at the pub is is you can't really ask for more than that. Right. Anything after that is getting new people in there. Everything else is a bonus in my book.

Myke Madison: Yeah. And there were some young folks there, which was great. People who are, you know, just getting their first fountain pen in a couple of cases. Endless pens down in Florida sent out some, you know, Pelican like student pen type things to a bunch of the hubs around. And so they had some pens to give out. And so a few people at our hub got their first fountain pen, which is that's pretty awesome. Like also, how did you come to a Pelican hub if you're not a if you how did that happen? But also welcome. We'll show you all the things. Just dare us to stop, you know.

Brad Dowdy: Well, yeah, you're blowing my mind here that like not no not having a fountain pen coming to a Pelican hub. That's amazing. Let me blow your mind with one of our sponsors here, Myke. This is from our good friends at Squarespace. This episode of the pen addict is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one platform for building your brand and growing your business online. You can stand out with a beautiful website, engage your audience and sell anything, your products, services and even the content you create. Squarespace has got everything you need all in one place. You can take advantage of professionally designed website templates. That's what I do, because as we all know, I am not a professional, nor am I a professional web designer. So they help me out, make my blog look good over at pen addict dot com. Squarespace hat. Squarespace has designs for every category and use case. You can customize your look, update content and add features to fit your unique needs. You can make any Squarespace template to do what you want. So your idea, brand or business stands out on every device. You can excuse me. You can also sell products on an online store, which is something I do as well. Whether you sell physical or digital products, Squarespace has the tools you need to start selling online. And you can encourage your visitors to sign up as email subscribers with Squarespace's email campaigns. They can start the journey to becoming loyal customers. So just start with an email template and customize it by applying your brand ingredients like site colors and logo. Plus, built-in analytics measure the impact of every cent. I have been a longtime Squarespace customer. I love how easy it is to use. I love just focusing on the content I want to create and allowing Squarespace to do everything else on the back end. So Squarespace is great for everyone from just a simple site to more complex shops and insights that anything you need to run a business. So go check out squarespace.com slash pen addict for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash pen addict and use the code pen addict to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash pen addict and the code pen addict when you decide to sign up for 10% off. Our thanks to Squarespace for their support of this show and all of RelayFM. Myke, recently on my Squarespace site, I wrote a blog post where I ranked 15 different Pilot nibs. And I'm mentioning this because you too had the opportunity to try 15 of Pilot's number 10 sized fountain pen nibs in their Pilot Custom Heritage 912 pen barrel. And I wanted to talk about that for a few minutes. So what was your overall takeaway from that experience in a broader scope? And then we'll narrow it down a little bit more.

Myke Madison: My broader takeaway was that they have a lot of really good nibs. I kept expecting not to like some of them. So I found a favorite. Was your favorite the PO? Was that the... Yes. Yeah, I knew that would be a Brad nib for sure. Yeah, that was a lot. I expected to not like the PO and it turns out I like the PO. I don't have your tiny handwriting, you know. Right. I usually go bigger. It's not my favorite nib. My favorite has got to be the soft medium. I love the feel of that soft medium. But there were so many good nibs in there. I was kind of... I mean, I've used a bunch of them, but I was surprised kind of having them all back to back to back to back, you know.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I kind of thought the same thing. It was like, well, I had seen your... What you had done with all the nibs and kind of like sorting them out. And I was like, how am I doing videos for each kind of different groupings? And I'll put the link in the show notes for those who hadn't seen Myke's videos. You should definitely go check them out. So I was like, well, how am I going to present these? And I thought, well, maybe I'll just do like one nib a day on Instagram and do like a little Instagram thing for one nib. And then as Myke rolls his eyes at me, he's like, yeah, that's a terrible idea.

Myke Madison: No, I made that face because I also was going to do that. And I went, this is too much. And it's not doing what I want.

Brad Dowdy: And it's too hard. It's too hard. So I was like, well, how can I batch these into at least like, you know, two or three posts? Then I was like, forget it. I'm just going to rank all the nibs in one big post and just did it. That's what I finally stuck on. So yeah, but like, I don't even have mine pulled up. So like, what did I put at the end? Probably like the course nib I might have put at the end. And even then it's like, it's kind of unfair to rank it last because for someone it's going to be pretty great because it's like a legitimately good nib. It just does not work for me. And that's, I didn't pose the conceit of the article as what's good for everybody. I did it as a very personal list. But that's the thing as I was going through, it was like, there's no bad nibs here. I will say I did have one disappointment. I wanted, I've never tried a Waverly nib and I was pretty excited to try that. And it just did not work for me at all. I was hoping that would be one I would put on my shopping list for the future as something I would enjoy. And I think like, I'm just going to pass, like, I'll probably, I would probably rather go with like a soft medium like you're talking about.

Discussion on the Waverly Nib

Myke Madison: Do you want to talk about why the Waverly didn't work for you? I don't remember if I saw that in the article.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It has, it's essentially kind of an angle independent nib is the theory, right? You should be able to hold it any, no matter how you hold a pen, the line on the page, you should have a good writing experience, right? Because people with non-traditional grips will rotate or hook a pen or have a weird, you know, a more vertical angle or a lower angle. And the Waverly is designed to be at peace with however you want to hold the pen and give you a good fountain pen line. And what I found is that, okay, yes, that worked, but that's exactly why I don't really get along with just like a standard medium nib. Because it's just like round tipping and it just makes a nice line. And it would be great if I wrote cursive, but I don't. So it didn't really work for me. And I was hoping like, oh, maybe I can get a little bit of line variation or something. And like, no matter what I do, it's like, yeah, it's just the same line over and over again. And it's like, yeah, I'll just have a fine nib or a medium nib and I'll be done with it. So because I have a very traditional grip and angle that I hold the pen at. Like I don't have any problems, you know, with a fountain pen nib, you know, catching on the page or doing skipping because I hold it at a weird angle. I have no problems with it. So it's not going to be for me. What about you?

Myke Madison: Yeah. So the Waverly is actually the only one that I own. So that was the 912 that I bought years ago. And I've been using that Waverly for a long time. So I think the deal with the Waverly is that it's good for a whole bunch of situations. So if you're standing up at the bank and writing something or you're not in a traditional I'm sitting at a desk holding a pen. The Waverly is kind of it's meant to play anywhere, which is cool, but it is not going to give you line variation. And a lot of people expect it will because it looks a little bit like a food day. You know, it's got that upturn, but that is just not what it does. It is going to give you a bog standard line every time, which is, you know, not super exciting if what you're looking for is a cool line thing. But if you're looking for a pen that's going to write all in all the situations, that's the one. So I think like the feature that it has is exactly what you're not looking for. And I totally get it. But yeah, I think the Waverly is a really cool new, but it's not going to give you line variation. Like it's just it's not a stub and it's not a food day. It's it's going to give you a line. It's every time, but it's just going to give you a line.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I think I had I think I had false expectations for it. So I kind of set myself up to like, ah, this isn't really what I was wanting. Um, on that same front, I pretty much out of hand dismiss the broads, double broads, music course, those nibs. And I actually found myself really digging the broad nib. I could not believe how well it fit my handwriting. Do you use have you used any of any of that? You said you just have the Waverly. Is that the only kind of size you have in there? Do you like the broads and things like that?

Myke Madison: I mean, I've got a lot of pilots, so I have I have I have probably I have a lot of the standard stuff covered. Well, actually, I think I have all the standard stuff covered. I don't really have any of the soft stuff yet. I need to get some of the softs. I was surprised by how big the course nib was like that is a nice big line. And I dug it. I was kind of disappointed in the double broad on that size. I have the double broad in the 845, the big size of nib. And it's a I mean, it's massive. But the double broad, I think, compared to the course, you're like, just get a course. If you want to get you want to get big on those nibs, get yourself a course. But I like I like writing large in a lot of cases. And so the course, I really liked the course. But I get why you wouldn't. It would not match your handwriting at all.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was definitely too round for me and too bulky of tipping on the front end. But I surprised myself with the broad nib. I was like, I think that's probably the next nib I buy is a broad nib.

Brad Dowdy: Speaking of next nibs we buy, we might be in trouble because you and I and I guess some few other people. And I guess it's out in the wild now. Pilot has another 15 nibs coming in the next size up. So Myke and I tested the number 10 size nib, which is in the 912. Pilot just announced that they are releasing. It's another 15, right? Like it's the same 15, I think. I'll put the link in the show notes in the size 15 nib. So one step up for that. They're going to come in the Pilot Custom 743.

Brad Dowdy: And I'm really interested in that. The problem is I kind of wish I had both set side by side, right? The 10s and the 15s. Because how am I going to like a posting nib that should theoretically be softer, right? The point of the PO is that it's very firm and very fine. And I think when you get a little bit bigger nib in gold, like it has to be a little softer, right? I don't know.

Myke Madison: I don't think it's going to. I think the PO nib is so firm because of the geometry of the thing. So for those who don't know, a PO nib kind of hooks down like a bird beak just a little bit. It sort of dips down instead of dipping up like a Waverly would. And I think it's the geometry of the nib that actually makes it hard. And I don't think... Because you're writing with the very tip of the nib and not the underside. So there's no way to splay if you're writing straight down. So I think it's still going to be hard. That's true. And no one's pressing that hard with the writing to like make it split. I think you could flex it once is how that would go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I kind of wonder about... I want to hear what happens when you use that PO nib on that 15 size. Because I think it's going to be weird having a big nib. Because the 15 is the size that's on the 823 and those other larger pens. I think it might be weird to have such a fine line coming out of such a large nib. You know, that's a mismatch in my brain.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And the problem with that, I think a lot of people don't think about. But I notice it when I write small is now I'm further away from the page, right? The nib is longer, even if it's just like these millimeters, right? I have now like trained myself to write with a PO in a certain distance from the page. And I'm not really going to change... That's not a nib where you change your handwriting style to say, Oh, now I'm going to like write really flourish my handwriting. It's like, no, it's still going to be the same and it's going to be small. But now I'm further away from the page. So that's one of the things I want to look at.

Myke Madison: Um, I think the... It is only very slightly longer. I've got a 10 and a 15, like just kind of holding them up and they are only very slightly different in terms of length. So...

Brad Dowdy: Well, then I'm excited. I, you have, uh, you have, uh, you know, gotten rid of my worries. Uh, what I am excited to see is like the softs. Um, I really want to see the softs in there. Um, I think that's gonna be interesting. The FA is probably going to be wild. Um, I already have one, uh, an FA and a 743. And even I like love that. Like, I think that's just, that's gotta be one of the most popular nibs. So I don't know. Is there anything you're looking for in like the size 15 of those? I just think it's kind of wild. I'm going to want them all.

Myke Madison: The 15 is my favorite size of nib. It's one of my very favorite nibs. I'm, I'm trying hard to think of other nibs that are stock nibs that I like better than the number 15 pilot. And I don't, I don't know of any really like that is, it's a, I've got those in mediums and fines and they're, they're fantastic.

Brad Dowdy: And yeah, I got to think about that. So hopefully, uh, you and I get our hands on them. Uh, maybe this year. I have no idea. I have no idea, but I haven't talked to him about it yet, but yeah, same. Yeah. But the announcement was cool enough. I was like, that's, uh, like it, these are the kinds of things I overly think about. I was like, oh man, that's a lot of inventory. So much inventory, right? It's all gold. It's not steel. It's all gold. It's like, it's like, I don't even have to deal with it and it keeps me up at night. So it's like, all right. So one of the notes that I had for you to talk about is what you're excited about right now. Um, what type of pens, what types of inks? So, um, if you don't know Myke, and I think probably a lot of our listeners do, but if you don't know Myke, uh, Myke's, Myke's into this stuff, like pretty hardcore. He goes to a lot of pen shows. He's obviously on the YouTube channel, creating a lot of content, content, testing a lot of things. He's streaming on Twitch. So he's doing all the things and is, um, very knee deep into the stationery realm. So what are you excited about right now on in the stationery world or say like this year, like what have you found that you, you've really latched onto?

Myke Madison: Yeah. So I'm just looking at my, my currently inked book, which is just, you know, chock full of inks and stuff like that right now. And just thinking about the inks that I've gotten recently that have been really amazing. And there are a few brands that are just kind of, um, either new to me or are doing a new thing. So both DC and the San Francisco show had Nagasawa come out from Japan and they have, of course, the Kobe inks, which are just, I mean, from beginning to end of that series, just awesome ink. And so I picked up maybe too many of those recently, but they also have these inks called Automatopoeia and they're not labeled under Kobe. They're Nagasawa Automatopoeia inks. And they're, I think kind of a new series from them. And there are some of them that are just super fun. So I've got this one that I, it's spelled Fuku Fuku. Um, but I think you say it Fufu and it's supposed to be like the sound of like soft things falling over or something like that. And like, I love the idea and I love that. I can't tell what color this ink is. I have, it's, it's super weird. It's kind of a, I don't know, uh, uh, like a mauvey brown taupe maroon thing. It's like, I don't know, prune colored almost kind of, it's very strange. And I love that. I can't quite nail it down. Uh, so I'm really liking those inks. I bought several of them. There's one of them that's a super pale, like yellow. And I'm like, yeah, I'm a little dubious on this one, but we'll see how it goes. Um, I recently got into color traveler inks. Have you tried any of these color travelers yet? No, no, not yet. Um, yeah. What do you like in there? Lisa over at Van S, Lisa Van S at Van S gave me this one called, um, Saizhou red brick chimney. And it is just a gorgeous kind of like a, like a, a light ketchup red kind of color. So it's bricky, but it's also kind of soft. Uh, and I've, I've really been enjoying that one. It's got an amazing flow. The color looks really good. Uh, there's so many good shimmers coming out right now. I mean, ever since Diamine's, uh, ink event last year with the chameleon shimmer and that sort of thing, I've been rocking some of those chameleons since last December. Like I just won't take them out of pens. I just keep refilling them, which is maybe unwise. I have a lot of pens in it, but I just keep going. I'm not going to take it out. So, uh, I've got a bunch of those that I've really, really enjoy. And, uh, you know, of course I, I really like getting the exclusive inks for shops or sort of small maker stuff. I've really loved the Anderillium inks recently. I've got a bunch of those in pens that are just, I I'm just kind of blown away every time I use them. Uh, I've got, um, uh, this one from Enigma stationers, the, they're light blue. It's like, it's called Enigma. I think it's at Vinta Vinta Enigma has got, you know, I got to get that one. Yeah. It's light blue. It's like light blue shimmer in there. It's really, it's pretty neat. Um, so yeah, I've been using a lot of fun inks for sure. And there's a lot of cool pens out there that I've just gotten my hands on. Uh, I know, you know, Bennu. I, uh, yeah. Would you believe I just got my first Bennu?

Brad Dowdy: Like we got it like a month ago, maybe. Hey, I was very late on that bandwagon. Like I didn't think it was for me for the longest time, but then I found one that fits.

Myke Madison: Yeah. It's that Sunday by the pool and from, uh, from Eric Gamma that he did with Endless. It's such a good pen. It's way bigger than I thought it was. It writes super well. I have nothing but praise for that pen.

Brad Dowdy: I'm really liking that pen a lot. Yeah. That, that, those Bennus were a huge surprise for me. It's like, I was like, Hey, yeah, they're, they're fine. They're, they're good for somebody, you know, not necessarily for me. And I would try and try and try. And then they finally came out with like the Euphoria model, which I've just really latched on to. So yeah. And, uh, Eric's, Eric's is so good. We'll put a link in the show notes to that. What other, any other pens, uh, you, you've been liking recently?

Myke Madison: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've got a, I've got a few that I pulled out here when you told me we were doing this segment. I was like, yeah, all right. I got a few pens I should probably talk about. Um, so I was talking about, uh, Nagasawa earlier and they have this, um, platinum three, seven, seven, six called the silhouette. It's just like soft dove gray and kind of like off white with a matte finish. And it's, I mean, it writes like a three, seven, seven, six, and I've got a bunch of these and I love them, but this is this colorway was just an insta buy. So many people were showing me that pen. It is really sharp. Yeah. Audrey was telling me, oh, you should probably check out this thing. And I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever. I've got a bunch of platinums. I'll definitely check it out. But then when I was on Sunday at DC, you know, getting the, hitting the, uh, two for the price of one, uh, Kobe inks, I was just like, oh, it's this one. I'm like, put that on the bill. So it was just kind of an insta buy. And I mean, it feels great in the hand. It looks awesome. I, I really liked this pen a lot. Um, I also just got my hands on a, uh, a diplomat excellence, a plus, which I love diplomat pens. I've got a ton of the arrow models and I've got, um, I've got an excellence and some travelers and stuff like that. But the a plus just feels like kind of, it feels like kind of an executive sort of pen. It feels fancy and high end. It's got this, uh, like sort of, I don't know, wavy silver engraving in the barrel. This is kind of fools the eye and sparkles. It's actually got a, uh, uh, twist off cap. It's got a very satisfying twist to it. Great nib. Really? I like this pen.

Brad Dowdy: I was kind of surprised. Yeah. Yeah. Diplomat does such high quality work. Like they're the pins, like the, the results of their pens, whether you like the styles or not, they're always just like a plus like construction, right? They're really, really good.

Myke Madison: Yeah. And then, and the nibs are always great. Just, I mean, the steel nibs are fantastic. I've like, I've got one of the gold nibs and I don't really feel like I need to upgrade any of the rest. I really like the way the steel writes. It's very good. Yeah. Same here. I guess one more is, um, I got this one from Estherbrook. This is the, the new, uh, model J.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And I, I was, yeah, I've, I've, I've, I've picked, pick it up, put it down, pick it up just recently with the Orlando show. I think I like it. And then I was like, I couldn't pull the trigger on it, but yeah. What tell me about it and what do you like?

Myke Madison: Yeah. I was kind of dubious. Um, when I opened it up out of the package, uh, they sent it to me for some, you know, product stuff. And I was like, yeah, okay, let's see what this J is about. Cause I really liked the SD. That's a great model. I've got a few of those and got some JRs and that sort of thing. Um, and I didn't, I kind of looked at the J and went, it doesn't really look like a J, you know, it's big, it's kind of a chunky pen. It's got, it's very, it's kind of a bold color on this one. I got the, I don't know what they call it. Lotus, I think is the pattern, but I really, I like the ebonite feel of it. I really liked the pattern of it. I like the weight of it when I'm writing with it. It's got a, it's got a very nice section to it. Um, I like how the clip is kind of a, is a, an Estherbrook, you know, J homage with the grooves and something about the gold bands does kind of call back to the way that they did the bands on the, on the cap of that pen. But I think just on its own, it's a very nice ebonite pen. So yeah, I've been enjoying it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I, I think I'm going to end up with one of those. There were, so there were, I think there's two colors out now, the green one that you have and the call at Lotus. And then there's a Brown kind of like a Brown and black swirl ebonite. And they were both really, really good looking. I definitely prefer the green. I like, I really like green ebonite. I have a couple of green ebonite pens that I've been enjoying. Um, but yeah, that one is on the short list of something I'm probably going to end up with. At least I want to test it out and kind of give it a good look and, and see. So it's very cool. Um, one thing I don't, I don't want to, uh, I don't want you to be the only one to have to play this game. There's one thing that I've been enjoying a bunch and it's right up your alley. And I'm assuming you have this, uh, and you may have even done a video on it and I missed it, but the poppy a plume rebirth from the DC pen show that has become quickly. Um, I mean, it's definitely my favorite thing to use right now. It's just a fun kind of brownish orange, maybe a little bit more red than orange. Um, and you were talking about like the couple of different like brickish red colors that you've had recently. And there's some that's used to be like a color range. I would just kind of skip and just kind of, it's like, yeah, I'm, I'm fine. I'll stick with my purples and greens and oranges and whatever. And I started to get into those brownish oranges and this one's a little bit darker and it's more copper based, I guess. It's awesome. Like I am, I, I will not shut up about this ink and I don't know why.

Myke Madison: I've got it in a pen right now too. I have it in this pen right here. And yeah, I mean, it's almost empty. You can see, I've been using this one a lot too. It's a great color and they have another ink coming out for Halloween.

Brad Dowdy: Ooh, nice. Do you have, do you have a sneak sneak preview that you can't share with us? Yes. Or yet are you on an embargo? Yeah. We have an embargo video here. Uh, I don't know if you're allowed to talk about that.

Myke Madison: I think I can talk about it. I, yeah, I'm pretty sure I can talk. I can talk about it. It'll be fine. Um, hit me up. Yeah. So they have this whole like set coming out and I'm holding it up. And Brad is like, it's a coffin. It's a coffin. Yeah. I mean, it's like made of like paper. Somebody has glued all this together to make a coffin. It's pretty wild, but, um, it's an ink and they also have a, like a wax seal and that sort of thing in a set. And these will be going up for sale. Let's see, uh, the end of this week when this podcast airs. So like the end of September 29th or something like that. Okay. Uh, but it's called the count and this is their Halloween set. And it's got a, it's got like vampire fangs and a glass of, you know, a glass of wine and a bottle of wine there. And that's kind of the perfect representation. Cause it is a super, uh, it's, it's exactly the color you expect between like dried blood and wine. Like it's, it's, it's not quite just a wine color and it's not quite just a red it's, it's somewhere in between. Um, and I've only had it a pin for a couple of days cause I just got it recently, but it's, it's actually very good.

Brad Dowdy: So yeah, that's coming out soon. Vampires, man. It's, it's what's in. Yeah. That is apparently the, the ink flavor du jour is vampire. So do you have, do you have, you have to have all the vampire inks? So we got Pannonio, we got Wearing Ool. Um, we got this one now and I feel like I'm missing. Robert Oster, Vampire Pigeon. Robert. Yep. There we go. Vampire Pigeon, the Atlas Stationers Inc, which looks amazing story behind that one.

Myke Madison: I have all four of those in pins right now.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Exactly. So the, the year of the vampire, that's, that's an article I need to write later in the year, the year of the vampire ink. So yeah, I, but I'm for it. Like all the colors have been great. The stories are fun. The execution is always good. So yeah, I really liked that. All right. So a lot of these products you have picked up at pin shows throughout the year, and I've seen you in a couple of pin shows this, this year. So I want to talk about pin shows and our current, uh, thoughts on pin shows. Before we do that, let me thank our second sponsor this week, which is factor. This episode of the pin addict is brought to you by factor with the busy fall season already in swing. You might be looking for wholesome, convenient meals for jam packed days. Factor is America's number one, ready to eat meal kit, and it can help you fuel up fast with chef prepared dietitian approved, ready to eat meals delivered straight to your door. You'll save time, eat well, and stay on track with your healthy lifestyle. Wow. So I have been a factor customer for probably the last month or maybe six weeks or so. And I love the convenience of them, especially working from home. I can have a great meal for lunch is what I use them for. Um, you know, I'll have, you know, our family meals at night with my wife and kids, but during the day when the kids are at school or my wife's at work, I can just grab a factor to throw it in the microwave in two minutes and have like a fresh, awesome meal. Um, and then just get back to it. So they're really good. My biggest challenge with them right now is my son keeps stealing them. Um, he will come home from school. He's in that growth spurt phase where school lunch is not enough. So he backs that up with a factor when he gets home and I'm like, settle down on the factors. Like these are for me during the week. So with factor, you can skip the extra trip to the grocery store. They're fresh, never frozen meals are ready in just two minutes. And you have more than 34 flavor packed options to choose from every week. Do you want something special level up with gourmet plus options prepared to perfection by chefs and ready to eat in record time. So you can treat yourself to upscale meals with premium ingredients like broccolini, leeks, truffle butter, and asparagus. Plus you can keep your energy up with lunch to go factors, effortless, wholesome meals like grain bowls and salad toppers, no microwave required. Then to finish your order, choose from 45 add-ons including breakfast items like apple cinnamon pancakes, bacon and cheddar egg bites, and smoothies. My son is especially fond of the smoothies. And you can rest assured you're making a sustainable choice because factor offset 100% of their delivery emissions to your door along with sourcing renewable electricity and featuring sustainably sourced seafood. This September get factor and enjoy eating well without the hassle. Simply choose your meals and enjoy fresh flavor packed meals delivered to your door. Ready in just two minutes. No prep, no mess. Head to factormeals.com slash penaddict50 and use the code penaddict50, that's 50, to get 50% off your first box. That's code penaddict50 to get 50% off your first box. Just go to factormeals.com slash penaddict50. Our thanks to Factor for their support of this show and all of Real FM. All right, speaking of shows, Myke, I backed down on this topic a little bit in what I originally thought maybe me and you could hash out. But I'll get to later why I kind of wound this down. So my big idea was, hey, I'm going to have Myke on and we're going to sit here and we're going to create the perfect pen show. Right? You and I, we're going to design the perfect pen show.

Brad Dowdy: I don't know that's the right way to look at it.

Myke Madison: Oh, no. That's what my notes are about.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. But no, I think it is, right? But I think there's just a huge challenge. But I think what we can offer today is what would we like to see that constitutes a current pen show? And are there things we could take from what's currently out there, add it to a singular show? Or what does no show do that we would like to see? So you have been to how many shows this year? Like I don't like five, six shows, something like that. I mean, at least I haven't counted. Yeah. Same here. And I'm probably like around more like the four or five range. So you were in DC and San Francisco. I was in DC. Those are two of the big ones. And then we mix in some of the smaller ones. Like I was in Orlando. I did Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore. So I think that was my list this year. So trying to get a range. Yeah, I did.

Experiences at Various Pen Shows

Myke Madison: I did Philly, Baltimore, Atlanta, the Triangle Pen Show in Raleigh, DC, San Francisco.

Myke Madison: That might be it.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Yep. So, you know, we've gotten around to different shows, different sizes. We've been doing this for years too, right? Like this, we've been doing these, a lot of these shows every year for quite a long time. So I'm wondering, what do you see like in the big picture of pen shows that you want to, that can be improved just in the broader sense of things?

Myke Madison: Yeah. So I had a whole bunch of notes about like building the whole perfect thing. But like, I think, I think something that is sort of in constant flux at pen shows is trying to find the right kind of organization. Mm-hmm. And I mean, of the pen show itself, of the floor and how the flow is. And I think that's one of the things that is, I think, really important for both the vendor experience and the showgoer experience. And I've done both. I've had tables at shows. I've just gone to shows. I've worked tables at shows for other folks. And so it really matters kind of how the spaces are set up. You don't want to have, and this is sort of my take on things, but I don't think you want to have like vintage pens in one place and modern pens in another place because then you don't get that crossover and that cross pollination. You know, somebody might go to a pen show thinking, I just want to get modern pens. I don't care about vintage. But if you make them, if they, if they're going to buy vintage tables and like standing next to a vintage table and getting a modern pen, or they're like, I only want vintage pens. I don't care about modern stuff. But they're, you want them to see that stuff, get exposed to those things. And that's good for the vendors. And it's also good for the showgoers. I think you want to have like the services. I think you want services like kind of together. So put your nib grinders and your repair people, you know, together and in a place that can be found, you know? So as these shows grow, I think a lot of them are outgrowing their one ballroom or maybe two ballroom spaces. And they're adding like ancillary and auxiliary spaces and that sort of thing kind of off to the side. They might be hard for people to find. And that's not great for the people going to the show because they can't find the thing. And it's not great for the vendors because they don't get people going to their table. So I think flow and organization is sort of the biggest and most doable thing that needs to be and is being focused on, I think, at pin shows.

Brad Dowdy: So like number one on my list, and you probably watched me giggling while you were talking, is space. And that just doesn't mean floor space. It means aisle space and behind the table space and, you know, broader floor space and how that all interacts with the flow of the room. Exactly all the things that you're saying because there's nothing worse than going to a Saturday at a pin show, walking into the main ballroom and then just like hitting a wall and not knowing which way to go. And a lot of people, you know, may only have like a couple hours on a Saturday afternoon to get in there and get around. And like I know that's, you know, there's a balance like, you know, hey, it's not like an exact science on how big of a room to get. But there are things like I think show promoters can consider when laying out shows and, you know, get the most feasible flow. So I really like your idea of like a services area, right, to where this area is, you know, for nib grinds and repairs. And it's easier to point people to this place as opposed to, oh, let me go find where such and such is and point you to it or take you over there. And then if you need this other like repair and it's across the room and let me find them and like find the show map and figure out where they're at, things like that. So, yeah, I think those are like super, super smart ideas. What else what else would make your perfect pen show?

Myke Madison: Two things that are environmental. One is heating and cooling. Oh, man, I know it's got to be tough to figure out heating and cooling in a large convention space like that. But it feels like most of the time we're either being frozen or steamed and neither are great. So, like, oh, man, I hope and this is not something a show promoter can necessarily do. But like hotels have got to nail that down. Like it's 2023. Give me some give me some airflow. But like, don't freeze me. Definitely don't steam the crowd. You don't want that. And the other thing is light. Light is super important in this in these kinds of shows, you know, and there are so many places where you just don't get any light. You know, you'll like hallways and even in ballrooms and that sort of thing, like the light is is bad. So vendors bring your own lights. You're going to need to and shows provide electricity because you're not providing light. You got to let us bring our own lights, you know, and give us electricity. But if we can get some light and we can get some like cool and or warm air, that would be great. This is why I'm loving having you on talking about this.

Brad Dowdy: You're so right. How do hotels whose whose business is like to comfort people happy and have comfort? No hotel is able to manage an HVAC system in the year 2023. It's like it's like, what are you talking about? It's 800 degrees in here. It's set to 70. It's like, well, I don't care. We're roasting or we're freezing or everyone just went to get their jacket. One of the two.

Myke Madison: Right. Yeah, I'm asking you to turn the air down and I'm visibly sweating. Don't tell me it's cool already because it is demonstrably not.

Brad Dowdy: The lighting thing cracks me up because it is can be genuinely bad and ruin like a table experience for someone who's not prepared to handle that or doesn't have the access to power or didn't bring lights at the Orlando Pen Show. One of the local vendors is a kind of like a stationery retailer called Sam Flax. They literally bring table lights to sell to the other and like they will sell a bunch of table lights because like it's it was one of the more popular things because like you don't know what you're going to get when you show up at a hotel with, you know, 20 foot ceilings or eight foot ceilings, you know, the light right over your table or you're stuck in the corner where the lights out. Right. So bringing your own and I've started to see way more large batteries for these lights at the table because they also don't have access to power like to, you know, you know, physical power outlets and cables and things like that. So, yeah, that's yeah, that that all came to play just in like the most recent show I was in is like there's dark corners of the ballroom. And I was like, oh, that stinks. So, yeah. All right. What else got?

Myke Madison: What have we not covered? Oh, so I've got I've only got a couple of things on my list. I hope you have a list, too. We got to get some Brad stuff. I have a few things. I definitely have one that you haven't mentioned yet. All right. So I'm going to go with I'm going to go with this. I think we need some tours at shows. OK. And there are a couple of shows that have been doing this. And like I not to toot my own horn, but I do some of this on video as well. Like when I go to a pin show on Friday afternoon, I'll do a live show tour and talk to vendors and show people where things are. And some of the shows have started doing, you know, time to tours. Like I know Dallas did this a few years back. I kind of hope they've kept up with it. San Francisco is doing it this year with our friend Kimberly. Just like, you know, you can meet up at this time and somebody will take you around and show you around a pin show because so many people right now are coming up to me and saying this is my first pin show. Where do I go? Like, how do I how do I navigate this thing? Or people might say, like, I want to go to a pin show, but I don't. I think I'll be intimidated by the space. And so it'd be really great if we can get some, you know, locals or some other people who are, I don't know, gregarious and don't mind talking in front of people. It's like, you know, a couple of three times a day have like, hey, go with this person. They'll show you around the show. Right. Show up at 1030. Somebody will show you around, you know, that kind of thing.

Brad Dowdy: I should volunteer for that more and just tell like a show promoter if I know I'm going to show because that's one of my favorite things to do. Right. Because I can I can only shop so much. Right. I'm there to like talk to people. I like I'm making 500 laps around the show anyway. I might as well bring five people with me and show them what's going on. Right. Because I'm not doing anything like too important. So let me do like every two or three hours. I'll take a group around and and show them around. And I would just be more than happy to do that. Like a lot of shows. I know a lot of shows are doing a fountain pen 101. But you're if you're not there at Saturday at 10 a.m. Between 10 a.m. and 1030. Well, you don't get fountain pen 101. Right. It's not a recurring thing for like the most like basic thing for new customers who like it's intimidating. Like we have both talked to dozens and dozens of people like this is and it can be very, very intimidating in the space in the in the knowledge and just the comfort level of being able to walk around and look at things. How do you how do you walk up to a vendors table and ask about a product or test a product? Right. And then what are the pros? What are the the right way to do these things? Right. So, yeah, I think that's super, super important. One of my things is you need to make everything available to purchase online as far as tickets and classes go to sign up for classes, to purchase show tickets, to have a working functional website. This is right up there with Hotel HVAC. Like it's 2023. 2023. We should be able to buy tickets online and you should be able to sign up for classes online. I don't want to sign your legal pad on the day of the show to go into a class that especially a class that I have to pay for. Right. Who do I pay? When do I pay? How do I pay? Like make it easy for people to sign up for things. And, you know, we're in a pretty modern age. And I think, you know, even it's really kind of cool to see how like how many young people are coming to these shows. And just like you mentioned, the Pelican Hub, getting younger people out there, they're going to be able to go to your website and sign up for it, sign up for the thing. So make that an available option. And it's just a real, real ease of use thing and keep it updated. Right. Like, hey, this class is full, you know, that kind of thing. So I think having a modern website with some basic capabilities to sign up. What do you got?

Myke Madison: Yeah, I want to piggyback on that and say like show maps. So like Alexander Kramer makes some really great interactive sorts of maps for some of the shows. I love seeing that kind of thing because folks can go to a website, look at the list of vendors, see where they are. Even if things like kind of changed, you know, day of, maybe you have to make some shifts or whatever, but they're not going to be massive. You know, have who's going to be there and kind of where and that sort of thing and what the space, like what the layout is, how many rooms there are, that kind of thing. I think if people can know that going in, then like they'll have a better time at the show.

Brad Dowdy: One of the coolest things I saw at DC related to Alexander's map. So he did a great map. I referred to it a ton during the show because that show is just so massive. But a friend of mine walked up to me with their iPad that had taken a screenshot of the show map and then annotated the map for and like highlighted each table and just wrote in the name like with, you know, like digitally, like and had like maybe 10 things marked on the interactive show map. So they knew where to go, right, because DC is a complex show to get around, especially if you're short on time or you're a first timer. It's very, very overwhelming type of show. So like someone like literally just like annotated Alexander's map. And I thought that was like the coolest thing. And they were just carrying around with them. It's like, oh, I need to go here next. Boom. And you can get all that done and more efficiently and, you know, figure out which way to go. So, yeah. What else you got? Anything?

Classes and Seminars at Pen Shows

Myke Madison: I want to see more classes and seminars. Yeah, that's definitely on my list. There are always some. And there's, you know, there's paid classes, which are cool. Like if I'm learning a skill or something like that, totally into it. But yeah, like you said, I would like to see more of the fountain pen 101 type stuff there. I kind of want to see. And when I went to DC, they asked me to do a seminar. I could do whatever I want. So I just talked about bags for two hours or whatever. Might have been longer than that. I don't know. People stuck around for a while because that's another thing that pen people are into. And so, like ancillary stuff like that, where you have, you know, nerds like us who are really into a thing that's not necessarily pen stuff, but it's like right on the fringe. I think those are great too. But yeah, I want to see more of that kind of thing. I know that there were some really popular seminars on just, you know, how to journal or like, you know, ideas for journaling or correspondence and these kinds of things. Which, you know, it was like, oh, just write a letter. But if you're not a letter writer, that's kind of intimidating. Just write a letter. Oh, just stare at this blank page and make it be amazing. Oh, super easy, right? I'd like to have somebody tell me how to do that or tell me about journaling or tell me about, I don't know, plannering or whatever the thing is. Like there are a million things that I can't even, you know, think of that would be great seminars. And just, you know, fill that time. There shouldn't be. There shouldn't be a time when a seminar is not happening or two not happening, you know, I think. Right.

Brad Dowdy: Um, probably my, I don't know if it's my last thing, uh, just in the general context of current shows, but it piggybacks on the space thing. I think there needs to be either, well, maybe, maybe it's a two-parter. One, a quiet space and two, two, an activities room. Like one or both of those things. One, there needs to be a chill space that's away, but that is set aside for pen people to just recoup, relax. Like we all need that. Like it's a busy, overwhelming, just, you're just, it's loud, noisy, hot, cold, a place to chill for a second. And then secondly, a place that's kind of the opposite of that, where you can just throw down your journals on a table, throw down your pens and sit there with five other people at a table and journal and just take a break from the show. So some type of break room format, either a quiet room or an activities room or both, something like that. But, um, again, like in the broader picture, it's like, like everything we're saying, it's like, Hey, maybe that's going to cost them a little bit more money. But like, you know, I think these are not the, we're not, my idea is not to turn these into like conventions, which is like a different category of experience than what we get for pen shows. But it's to make these just marginally better because I think in general, I think you, you'll probably agree. They're, they're pretty good. They're pretty good, but there, there's definitely some improvements we could see.

Myke Madison: Yeah. I think a lot of the things we've mentioned really like don't take a whole lot of, might not even take any money. You know, some of them are space dependent. Like not every hotel is going to have a place for like a chill place. A lot of hotels have like a good lobby or they have a good restaurant-y sort of area that you can just go to and kind of get away from the crowd. But some places just don't have that available and I get it.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Those tend to be my favorite shows where you have that little extra space.

Myke Madison: Yeah. Because I mean, you've said it and I say it all the time. And the best thing about pen shows is pen people. And so if you're just going there and just like buying a pen and an ink and then going home, you're missing out on the best part of pen shows. Because even if you're kind of shy, like make an effort to meet a pen person because it's, it's great. It is. It is literally the best. Yeah. You got to have a space to do that. And like after our stuff is important too, but. It is.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It is. Yeah. So like, I don't, I don't think, you know, like you're saying that this isn't rocket science here. It's like little marginal things that if they all come together, it's kind of like, oh, wow, that was easy. Right. Like when you and I show up, like it's, if it's easy, like that is the hugest win in everything. It's like, I don't care. Like if I see, like if I don't, you know, find the pen that I want or the ink that I want, that's like secondary. It's like, did I have like a very easy experience at the show? Was it comfortable? Was it fun? You know, did I have plenty to do? Like if I'm there for two days. So yeah, like it's good stuff.

Myke Madison: I did want to emphasize it. When you say it's easy, you don't mean it's easy to put on a show. You mean you want it to be easy to go to a show? Yeah. No, I want to recognize the showrunners out there and those people who might not know running a show is a, is a, is a wildly difficult task. And it's usually, uh, you know, a very small group of people that are putting these things on. And so all these little details are things like, yeah, that'd be cool. But also I have to deal with 200 vendors and like all the things that they need and their individual needs and the things that go wrong. And it's like, no, it's very difficult to run a show. And so please have grace toward your showrunners. Those of you who are going to shows like be kind to a showrunner and the people that are helping them out. Cause they are juggling so many plates.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. You are so right. And I don't want any showrunners yelling at me for saying that this is an easy because it is not. And it is, it is like, if it was easy, I would do it. You know, it's like, I don't want to do it because I know how much of a nightmare it is. So I always try to shout out the showrunners. I always try to treat them with grace when like, when, you know, the HVAC is blowing up and they can't get the hotel to do anything. I was like, okay, well, thank you for trying. Right. And it's like, that's just what you want. Like that communication and that, that ability that the showrunners care that they're not just like propping up an event and vanishing, which I think we're pretty fortunate that we're in good shape with that, with all the showrunners in, in our business right now. Like it's, it's there in a pretty good space to do and they're doing a great job in a really, really difficult situation.

Myke Madison: So, oh, and wifi, before we get off this wifi, please have wifi in the room.

Brad Dowdy: How is that not on my list? Yeah.

Myke Madison: Oh, I got to have the wifi y'all. Like some of these places, just a black hole of, I don't know what it is. Just a Faraday cage of a hotel. Give me some wifi. Yeah. Give me some wifi.

Brad Dowdy: All right. Well, I'm going to get us out of here on that. I think like, oh yeah, literally we could have a, uh, an entire, I don't know, two hour discussion on pen shows and like what we would do and, and all those things like that. So, uh, before we do just want to give, uh, one more shout out to, uh, what we have going on for relay.fm and St. Jude. So head over to relay.fm slash St. Jude. We have raised an enormous amount of money this year and we just, um, thank everyone in the community. Uh, thank everyone for that, that participated in the pen attic raffle, uh, that just wrapped up earlier this week. Um, and there's still time to give to, to help out, uh, the kids at St. Jude for, uh, childhood cancer awareness month. So I wanted to be sure to point you to relay.fm slash St. Jude. And, uh, let's see what the total is while we're doing this. We're like, we're a long way from done. We have crossed, we have crossed my, the $500,000, um, threshold for what we've raised in the month of September to, uh, for, uh, everyone at St. Jude. So I know Myke and Steven had a great time, uh, at Memphis, um, doing the, uh, podcast a thon, uh, just this past week, which is why you're filling in this week. Myke has been a little bit busy raising all this money, right? It's, it's hard. Like he's got to have big pockets to carry all this money around until he hands it off to St. Jude, right? He's been a busy man. So I appreciate you hanging in here. Where can people find you, uh, on the internet? I'll have all the links in the show notes, but you want to give, uh, anything a shout out before we hit on?

Myke Madison: Yeah, sure. You can find me on Instagram as at ink dependence. You can find me on YouTube at youtube.com slash at ink dependence. And you can find me at ink dependence.com. Uh, we mentioned earlier that I hit 10,000 subs on YouTube and I've been running a giveaway that will be ending just before this, uh, podcast airs. But I mean, go and take a look at that video and check out the amazing vendors and makers who chipped in stuff just for like my little giveaway. I know I'm in conflict, like direct competition kind of for St. Jude stuff. I mean, I'm, I donate to St. Jude for sure, but also like go say hi to these vendors who have like been donating stuff and these makers and the folks that have gone and like given stuff for Brad, uh, St. Jude, uh, raffle, which is just a mind blowing array of generosity from all these folks. And, uh, like when we say the Pen community is amazing, like it's, this is kind of, this is just sort of evidence, you know, if you're like, Hey, I've got a bunch of subscribers kind of do a giveaway and be like, yes, Hey, I want to raise money to destroy cancer for children. Yes, absolutely. Like people are just like willing to, to pony up for that stuff. And it really is awesome. And I love it. So thanks to everybody who's given to both of our raffles and giveaways. It's fantastic.

Brad Dowdy: And thank you for your time. Uh, I'll try not, I'll try to do it, uh, sooner than four years or whatever we decided it was. It's been too long, obviously. But it's like, I will literally talk to Myke tomorrow, probably or Monday. And it's like, yeah, we don't need a podcast. Well, like I'm going to talk to you like every day next week. So anyway, thank you for being here. Um, and yeah, we will, uh, we'll be back next time with a different Myke. So until then say goodbye, Myke.

Myke Madison: Cheerio water bus, Brad.