Editing The Pen Addict 526/transcript

{{Infobox podcast transcript
| name            = The Pen Addict
| number          = 526
| title           = All of the Fruit Combinations
| date            = August 17th, 2022
| hosts           = [[Brad Dowdy]]<br>
[[Myke Hurley]]
| guests          = 
| link            = [https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/526 Episode 526]
| audiolink       = [https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/thepenaddict/The_Pen_Addict_526.mp3 Audio Episode 526]
| length          = 49
}}

'''Myke:''' From Real AFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 526, and today's show is brought to you by Squarespace and the Canalea Pen Company. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad. Hey Myke, how are you? You know what, I'm feeling good. Feeling a bit silly today? Yeah. Me and you have been talking for like 10-15 minutes before the show, which if you're a Real AFM member, by the way, you get to hear a lot of that, because we stream the show live every week and we turn on the live stream a few minutes before. Been a bit silly today, so I'm excited for the energy of today's episode.

'''Brad:''' That usually translates into the show at some point, right? You know, luckily we don't have too many overly serious topics today. I mean, when do we ever, but you know, sometimes we get a little bit serious. I mean, sometimes we talk about laws, you know? True, true, true. Businessing, marketing.

'''Myke:''' Really long discussion about VAT once.



== Apology ==


'''Brad:''' That was unfortunate. So yeah, we'll bring our silly energy. But first, Myke, I would like to apologize to our listeners in advance of any feedback I'm going to get. I have not shut up about pen shows for like a month now, and that's not going to stop anytime soon. You're excited. I am. I think that's the problem, right? It's like I'm going to get to travel to a big pen show for the first time in two and a half years. Like I've been to the Atlanta pen show, right? But like, you know, that's great. Like that's like going to like my backyard, like a party in my backyard. Like it's cool. Like I love the Atlanta pen show. It's not the same as going to like DC or San Francisco or even Baltimore, Chicago, right? It's just different. So me getting to go do these things or in the case of DC, seeing others do it and wish I was there, like it gets me amped up. Like I love this stuff. Like I was super jealous. Like I've never felt so jealous of everyone at DC. But then I'm sitting here saying, hey, look at me. I'm getting ready to go to the San Francisco pen show. And people are like probably like, shut up, Brad. It's like we get it. So apologies that I'm going to continue to talk about pen shows for probably at least the next four weeks because I'll be going to two of them in the very, very near future. So we'll record next week. I don't know that we'll do like a San Francisco pen pre-show because I've been yapping about it for four weeks already. You've been doing that for the last four weeks, yeah. Yeah. So we're not going to miss any episodes while I'm in San Francisco, but we'll 100% do a follow-up when I get back. But I did a thing, which I said I was going to do for the San Francisco pen show, which I wanted to bring up to the listeners just to show the different types of opportunities that you have when you go to a pen show. So I signed up for classes and I signed up for paid classes, not expensive classes. They're very reasonably priced. One of them is only $5, which we'll get to in a minute. But I've never committed to doing like the real class thing. I've done some like free seminars here and there over shows. But in the past, as you know, a lot of times we're working, right? Well, I'll have a knock table over there and like, you know, for the pen addicts, you know, podcast and doing other things. But in the last, well, probably right before the pandemic hit, I started just attending pen shows. And I never figured out, well, do I want to go sit in a class, you know, for a couple hours in the middle of the day? And I was like, yes, no, maybe. I don't know, you know, trying to figure that out. But I'm going to do that at this show. So I've picked out two classes.

'''Brad:''' I'm doing, I'm taking classes with people that I know, my friends. It just happened to be that way that I like what my friends do. So the first one I'm going to is on Saturday at the San Francisco pen show. It's called Every Paper Has an Origin Story. And this is from our friends, Bruce Iman and Taizo Yamamoto of Yamamoto Paper, who I've been able to meet a few times at the San Francisco pen show and have been able to talk with via Bruce several times. So Taizo, yeah, and Yamamoto Paper, if you're not familiar with them, you might be familiar with the paper tasting, which is Yamamoto Paper's term for their sampler packs that they do of different types of paper. So they'll combine like five different paper types under a theme and package them and sell you like a sampler so you can test out and see what you want to, you know, what you might like without having to commit to like a huge pad of paper.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, and you only have to eat just a few pieces of paper.

'''Brad:''' There's just a small amount for you to eat. Disclaimer, disclaimer, don't actually eat the paper. Although it's probably healthier than drinking the ink. So double disclaimer, do neither. But yes, it is at least a little fiber based most of the time, except stone paper. That could be a mistake, right? That could be like a legitimate, like don't do that.

'''Myke:''' Stone paper is always a mistake.

'''Myke:''' It's always a mistake. It should not have been invented.

'''Brad:''' I finally got an ad on Instagram for stone paper after all these years. I saw one. Yeah, Karst is. Karst is on the dole right now. They're spending some ad bucks on the stone paper and they have this really, you know, attractive ad with the pen just rolling over the page.



== Stone Paper Dislike ==


'''Myke:''' Their products are visibly, like, sorry, visually very attractive. The problem is... Unquestionable. The paper makes me feel physically ill when I use it.

'''Brad:''' It's the worst. It's the worst. Don't come at me with your stone paper takes because, like, that's, you know, I'm not coming off of my stance on that. And I don't think, clearly Myke is not either. It's a bad product. Like, it's bad. So also, don't eat it. Maybe that's the only thing it's good for. Maybe it could be like a charcoal. Possibly. Like, for, like, our uni, like, maybe it's a fuel source, right? Like, stone. Like, maybe it'll retain heat. Well, we have gotten really off track here. So paper tasting. So this is called Paper Has an Origin Story. Taizo is from Japan and has been very dialed into the Tomoe River situation as a printer and a paper maker himself. So this is going to be an interesting little class to take. You know, they are going to go over. So let me leave. I'm going to read a little bit of the introduction here. They're going to walk us through 18 different kinds of Japanese fountain pen-friendly paper and explain the backstory of each. And we'll get to write on them and test them. Essentially, it's our own little guided paper tasting, if you will. So that should be cool. And we'll get to talk about Tomoe River. And it's like, how long is this? It's like a two hour and a half long class. And it's like five bucks for like the paper. It's like, come on. Like these people, these are people, Taizo and Bruce, who I lean on a lot. You know, when I have questions, especially in the Japanese market, they're very good friends of mine. And like, I can't wait. And it's Saturday. So this is one of the things I want to talk about, the schedule and how I think about the pen, the classes when I'm going to a show, since this is new to me. Saturday from 1230 to 2 p.m. Okay. So I'll be there. I'll get in Thursday night. I'll have all day Friday to kind of, you know, see the show. I can go Saturday morning and then have a break right in the middle of the day to go take a class, sit and chill out for a minute. And like, you know, that feels like comfortable to me. You know, I'm not taking three classes on Saturday. I'm not spending all day doing that. But, you know, just right in the middle of the day. And then I'll back that up on Sunday. You know, as things are winding down Sunday, you know, I think everyone's ready to chill. Our good friend, Le Reyes, is having a class called Notes to Self. And that's all I needed to know that, number one, Le is teaching a class. And number two, that's what it's titled. Knowing her as I know her. She's, you know, very creative journaler, very thoughtful, very practical, and likes to think about these types of things. So this is another, like, two-hour class. It's 40 bucks. And it's got, you know, some tools that come along with that, like some water brushes and accessories. But, like, this description of the class is we can be our own worst personal assistant, Myke. She's speaking directly to me at this, by the way. Let's recruit creativity, pens, ink, and paper into making our notes to ourselves just a little bit too remarkable to ignore. Right? So I'm there. I'm in. So I'm taking two classes over, like, a three-day show weekend. You know, hour and a half on Saturday, two hours on Sunday. And I am extremely, extremely looking forward. So the reason why I'm bringing it.

'''Myke:''' I think Idina, well, I don't know if this was the class, but Idina took a class that they put on when we were there in 20, whatever it was.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. And she really enjoyed it. Yeah. Lay's actually teaching two classes. Right. I forget what the other one was. I'd have to go look at it. But, yeah, she does this a lot, especially at the San Francisco pen show when she attends.

'''Myke:''' I remember this class specifically resulted in a basically destroyed notebook.

'''Brad:''' Okay. I'm down. I'm in with that. That was kind of part of it. So my point in bringing all of this up is pen shows offer different opportunities, right? We've talked about it for years and years and years. We don't necessarily go to pen shows to buy stuff, right? We end up buying stuff. But the value we get out of pen shows is the people, the conversations, the hangouts, you know, the, in this case, like the classes. Hey, I'm going to get to learn a couple of things. Right. So I'm taking advantage of all the things which in the past I've never like completely dove into. Right. I've always just been too busy or working too much or just, you know, hanging out. And, and this time I'm trying to take advantage of the different things on offer and have like that full weekend pen show experience that I talk about is like the best thing about pen shows. And hey, look, the guy who keeps saying it has never actually experienced all those things himself, despite experiencing a lot at pen shows. And I love pen shows. So, yeah, that's my point of keeping talking about this stuff. Um, I'm obviously going to talk about this a lot more, um, as I go and return. And then I have the Orlando pen show in September, which is going to be like diametrically like opposite of San Francisco, but hopefully good in its own right. It'll be probably more like an Atlanta pen show type of feel and vibe. I'm is my guess, but, uh, you know, like I look forward to that too. It's a lot different pace that you can find enjoyment in that type of show as well too. Right. It's, you really get to spend some time with people and instead of feeling like going through the buzzsaw, like say like a D&D. DC pen show or something like that. So there's a lot of value in the big shows for having like these wild and wonderful classes. Like I'm going to get to attend. Then there's a huge value in the pacing and the access you get at a smaller pen show like in Orlando. So I won't stop talking about pen shows for a while because I'm pretty excited about this.

'''Myke:''' I'm very jelly. I wish I was able to have worked out my year a little bit differently to join you in and stuff.

'''Brad:''' I think it all just came about so late this year. Yeah. I think we're still, still teetering like on where we can go and how difficult those travels are going to be. Like it's still very on the edge for me personally. So I understand that.

'''Myke:''' I'm hoping that next year might be, we might be able to do things a little bit differently.

'''Brad:''' Yep. Maybe we can shake, shake it loose next year. We'll see.

'''Myke:''' Speaking of pen shows.

'''Brad:''' Yeah.

'''Myke:''' Let's tell you about our first sponsor of this week's episode, which is the Canalea Pen Company. Canalea make the most beautiful, stunning, wonderful pens inspired by images of Hawaii. And Canalea's founders, Hugh and Carol, who are wonderful people, believe that these locations can help recharge our spirit and connect us with nature. I want to remind you about Canalea's most recent release, the Le Valani Collection. This design represents the sky at night in Kauai with its deep dark blue, the vibrant stars and visible shimmer of the Milky Way that you see when you look into the very beautiful skies there. And you can see it in these pens. You can see the stars, you can see the Milky Way, you can see the kind of never ending darkness that is space, right? You can see all of that.

'''Brad:''' It's a wild pen. It is so cool.

'''Myke:''' They did an incredible job as they always do. And the Le Valani Collection consists of the fountain pen in five different styles, so shapes. They have a ballpoint and they also have the Mailele option, the Mailele band option, which is a wonderful band made of Argentium silver, which adores Canalea's classic fountain pen profile. I have one on the Mailele pen. I am using it today, actually. So I have the Mailele band on... What was the previous pen that they introduced this on, Brad? Do you remember? I don't remember the names. It was the Honokalini, and I'm using that one today. And I have the Mailele band on the Honokalini pen, and I just adore it. I think it makes the pen that little bit more special, even. Canalea's fountain pens feature Yoha No. 6 nibs. You can buy steel or 18-karat gold nibs directly from Canalea. They offer a bunch of sizes from fine all the way up to 1.1-millimeter stub nibs. And every single nib is tuned by hand by Hue before it leaves their shop. This is the same... You'll get this at pen shows, too. So Hue is there, and he'll tune in the nib and make sure that it works perfectly before it's given to you. So you know it's going to be great straight out of their beautiful, lovely Black Walnut Keepsake Box. Best packaging in the business. Canalea's final pen show this year is going to be the San Francisco Pen Show, which is from August 26th to 28th. As we've told you in past weeks, Canalea's Kaihu Lee collection of pens is only available at pen shows. So this is going to be your last chance of the year to see them. The Kaihu Lee is an ever-changing collection of fountain pens specifically created by Canalea to represent the varied and beautiful colors and textures of the Hawaiian Islands. Every morning of a pen show, attendees can stop by the Canalea tables to see the assortment of Kaihu Lee pens that the tide brought in overnight. And to celebrate Canalea's anniversary month, with every pen purchased at the SF Pen Show, you'll receive Kona coffee from Greenwell Farms on Hawaii's Big Island, so you'll get to taste the inspiration behind the Kona Snow and Kona Cherry pens. You can find out more about Canalea's whole offering and keep up with all their latest announcements by going to canaleapenco.com, and we'll have a link in the show notes. Our thanks to the Canalea Pen Co. for the continued support of this show and RelayFM.



== Pen Show Plans ==


'''Brad:''' Maybe next week I'll talk about my plans for the pen show, like what I'm looking for shopping-wise and things like that, but I've talked about in the past, like I'm finally going to get a nib worked on to use in my Canalea pen. So I've got three Canalea pens now, and they all have the same nib, which is fine, but I want to have one that's different. So that's one of my tasks. One of the top things on my list at the San Francisco Pen Show is nib work. Like I don't even have any...

'''Myke:''' Do you have a nib in mind, or are you going to have one of the nibs of the current pens adjusted?

'''Brad:''' Current pens adjusted. So with the gold Yovo extra fine nibs, they're still wide enough for me to get like a little cursive italic grind on there. So it'll be like a Japanese fine cursive italic, which is kind of my sweet spot for just long form, enjoyable writing. So I'll get one of them done, and then that way I can move the nib from pen to pen as I use it. Because I don't... If I have one of the Canalea pens inked up, I only ever have one of them inked up at a time. So yeah, we'll talk about that next week. Like the list of things that I'm going to do, which is actually, like I said, pretty short. Like I'm not necessarily shopping for anything personally, but I am going to get a lot of nib work done, and we'll talk about that.

'''Brad:''' All right, Myke.

'''Brad:''' Mr. Inconsistent Project Boy over here is a big fan of starting projects.

'''Brad:''' The finishing of them, that's up for debate. But we have got to get, and by we, I mean me, I have to get my top five pens page fully up to date. And it came to bear when I was talking to Allison Stewart at WNYC, Myke. I don't know if you heard. Oh, were you?

'''Myke:''' You were on the raid? Oh.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, news to you. But she was referring to like one of the lists on the top five pens page, and I was like, oh, God, I had an update. I looked at the date I updated it. It was like 2020. I was like, I really need to update it. Even if a list hasn't changed, it needs to be touched and analyzed and thought about and say, hey, yes, today, this is still valid, right? So I started this week, and I'm just going to go straight down the list. I don't know if I'm going to get to one a week. Some weeks I might be able to tackle two or three of the top five categories. But I started at the top this week with the top five micro gel ink pens, and that's kind of the category that's really near and dear to my heart. It's the category of pen that made me decide to write about pens on the Internet, you know, discovering that, hey, there is such a thing as a sub 0.5 millimeter tip out there in the market. It just so happens they're in Japan and not the easiest thing to get, but look at where we are now. Almost 15 years later, we can get these types of pens anywhere. So I wanted to break down that list. That list is now updated as of last night on the top five pens page on the pen addict. And in the update section of each of these categories, I'll put the date that I updated so that we'll know that these categories have been updated. So only the first one's been updated so far, and I updated it yesterday. So I'll put that date on there. So this list had a little bit of change, but nothing changed in the top three spots. And I think this is really a two pen list that separate themselves from the remainder of the bunch. And those two pens are the Uniball Signo DX 0.38 millimeter, which is number one, and the Zebra Sarasa Clip 0.4 millimeter, which is number two. I think those are far and away the best sub 5 millimeter gel ink pens. The DX might even separate itself from the Sarasa Clip even more than grouping them together. Like there might be a pretty decent delineation there. As far as, again, just to recap, if you're new to the show and new to the pen addict, the top five pens are my recommendations. Okay, this is if someone asks me a question and it lands in this category, here is what I would recommend to you. Does that always line up with what I would personally use? And the answer is no. So I just want to make that clear. That's in the intro, but not everyone reads the intro to these things. But I like to mention that this list is a recommendation list. It's not a personal list as such. Not a personal list.

'''Myke:''' There's an interesting nuance there, right? But it's like... It is. I have all this information. I've tried all these products. What am I going to suggest the majority of people buy?

'''Brad:''' Right. And it comes to bear, that exact thing comes to bear in this list all the time, which we'll get to towards the end.

'''Myke:''' The pen that's fallen off this list is the biggest tell.

'''Brad:''' Exactly. So 1 and 2, Signo DX 0.38. It's a standout refill. It's wonderful quality. The way it performs is very, very consistent. The line is always good. They have a ton of colors. They have a really nice barrel, which isn't always the case in this category. When you're talking about $2 and $3 pens, sometimes the barrels are lacking. Sometimes they're pretty good. Like most of these, I'd say, are pretty good that are on this list. But there are some times where they do fall down a little bit. None of these on the list. I think they're all fine. It comes in a huge amount of colors. My favorite is the lavender black. I love that ink color that Uniball gets really, really right. That a lot of other companies don't necessarily get those colors right. So they're great. The Sarasa clip is like the DX, but where it is a little bit different is you can have a similar tip size, say 0.4 millimeter versus the DX 0.38. Why they have these, why 0.38 became a thing for Uniball. I'll never know. Just maybe it's marketing. The 0.4 millimeter of the Sarasa clip, people call them a little bit scratchy. Like, and they are, right? So they're a different feel on the page. But again, a lot of it for me, when you're talking about a pen tip this fine, is the consistency. And yes, the Sarasa clip refills may be a little bit scratchier, but they're completely consistent. Like, they're just fantastic.

'''Myke:''' And I mean, they're all scratchy to me, right?

'''Brad:''' Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, if you're in this category, you have to have an expectation that they're going to be scratchy, right? This is not a 0.7 millimeter gel or a Schmidt P8127 rollerball, things like that, right? Your expectations need to be set when you're shopping in this category. So there are pens that are smoother than the Sarasa clip, though, if that's your main category. But again, you might not be dabbling with these fine tip sizes anyway. So third is where it actually, there's kind of a jumble. Like, you could make any, like, between 3, 4, and 5. Like, if you said, you know, any of these were in any other spot, I'd be fine with it. So I have the Pilot Juice up at 3. This is the 0.4 millimeter. The Uniball Signo RT1 at number 4. And the newest pen, which I'll elaborate on in a minute, is the Pentel Energel Cleaner 0.3 or 0.4 millimeter. So let's take the Juice up and the Signo RT1.

'''Brad:''' I don't know why. What's so funny over there? Juice is just funny to me. It really is. Well, I'm still proud. How did the Juice? I'm still proud of Pilot. And they've kind of gone away from this. But when they launched it, do you remember all of the colors and all of, like, the fruit combinations that they had with it? They, like, really leaned into the Juice name back when they launched it.

'''Myke:''' Is their initial website was only in Japanese. And we were trying to translate that page using Chrome. And it was hilarious. It was great. Because it was so wrong.

'''Brad:''' It was great. It was great. So they've kind of gone away from that now. And that's with the standard Juice. So there are two different pens, just like Uniball has two different pens on this list. There's the Pilot Juice. And then there's the Pilot Juice Up, which is an even funnier name. Juice Up. The Juice Up is a nicer barrel and a needle tip. Where the Juice is a standard clear plastic barrel with a conical tip. So I prefer the Juice Up in this scenario. I like the needle tip. They're very smooth. They're very consistent. They have a nice knock and a nice grip on the barrel. They're cool colors. Cool design. I really, really like them. The Signo RT1 has been around for a long time. And they've kind of modified it a little bit and made it better over the years. So it's basically the retractable version of the Signo DX. The DX is the only pen on this list. And it's number one that's capped. So all the other pens on this list are retractable. That doesn't totally play into the rating. But that is something to note. All of these pens are retractable minus the Signo DX. So the RT1 is the retractable version of the Signo that I like so much. To me, it does feel slightly different. Like the refill manufacturing does feel different. But maybe that's just some kind of inherent bias that I had. That I like the feel of the barrel of the DX more than the RT1. But it feels slightly different to me.

'''Myke:''' I would consider retractable to be a positive for this type of product.

'''Brad:''' Yes. Yeah. I would agree. I would agree. And the DX has never come in a retractable model. They make a needle tip model. But they don't make a retractable model. Unless you start going into the multi-pins. Which is a completely different category. So last on the list. But I want it to be first in my heart. Is the Pentel Energel Clean'em. So the Pentel Energel is probably going to end up being the new number one pen in the store. So this is the next list I'm going to work on. I love the Energel so much. It is a wonderful pen in greater than 0.5mm tip sizes. Right? 0.5 and 0.7. It's one of the best gel pens out there. Bar none. Like I'm certain it's going to be number one on the top five pens on the store list. They have never really leaned into a standard micro tip pen. Except for the Pentel Sleechy. The Pentel Sleechy is flawed due to its barrel design. The refill is exceptional. But the barrel design is thin and uncomfortable in the grip section. The way the ridges are in the grip. It's not comfortable. It's very thin. Which I can get along with thin gel ink pens pretty well. But the Sleechy. All of these other pens I would prefer over the Sleechy. So what Pentel has never done. Is made like all of the ink colors. And all of the tip sizes in the Sleechy. Which start at 0.25, 0.3 and 0.4. And then they have a couple. I think they might have a 0.5. But I'm only worried about micro tip. They've never taken those refills. And built a more standard size traditional barrel around them. If they did that. It would be probably number two on the list. So what they have kind of dabbled with is taken that refill and made something like the Kleena. Or my favorite Pentel is the Energel Euro. Which has a little bit thinner barrel than the Energel Kleena or the standard Energel. The standard Energels have a wide diameter barrel. It's not overly wide. But once you start getting into these micro tip sizes. You want to have like a more just traditional diameter barrel. All the other barrels on here are thinner in diameter in the grip section than the Energel Kleena. So that's fine when you have a 0.7 millimeter gel. But not as comfortable when you have a 0.3 millimeter. So Pentel is kind of sort of getting there slowly. Where the Kleena falls short of the four pens ahead of it. It is very limited in colors. Right. All of these other product lineups ahead of it have full rainbows and more of colors. Like dozens of colors for each of these. The Kleena has a handful. Kleena looks great though. It's wonderful looking. And like they even have like a brown gel ink. Like which is great. Like that's cool. But they don't have all the things. And the barrel is a little bit wider than I prefer. But.

'''Myke:''' It is interesting that there's no taper at all on this pen. Right. It is just a solid tube.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Yeah. The Energel is traditionally like a big pen. It's. This is. That is straight up the Energel barrel style. Right. They own a barrel style. And you look at it and you go. Oh. That's an Energel of some sort. And that's what this is. And I think they could change that a little bit. The Euro has changed it. The Euro is a capped Energel barrel with a thinner grip. And it's not thin. It's more standard. Where these are traditional Energels. I consider them wide. Like I said. Which gets to be a mismatch with a wide grip and a tiny tip on the pen. Right. Wide grip. Wide line. You know. Tinier grip. Tinier line. So. That's generally how I look at it. So.



== Cleaner Design ==


'''Myke:''' This. The cleaner is a wild visual departure. Like I was just looking at what the Euro and the Sleechy look like to remind myself. Yeah. They look like. The cleaner doesn't look like it was made by the same company.

'''Brad:''' The cleaner looks like a craft design technology got a hold of the Pentel lineup. Which I've talked about CDT a bunch. They're the. They're the group that basically takes Pentel products and paints them mint green and sells them for three times the price. But it looks like they had their hands in this because it's nice. Like it's legitimately good looking. And it's a little bit of an outlier. Pentel has actually stepped up the Energel design over the years. They. Unlike the Pilot G2. Which never changes. The Energel. Every year or two. They do something different with the barrel. Right. Like the little. You know. Upgrade of the livery. If you will. Yeah. And like. You know. Keeps the internals the same. But hey. You know. We. Hey. Here's a new paint job on these. And they look sharp. Where the G2 is always consistent. I don't know. Which is a better. Like they. Both companies obviously believe in. In how they do it. And you know. Pilot G2 doesn't. You know. Can't really complain with. How well. You know. People have taken to that pin. So. Who knows. But I. I like what Energel. And Pentel does better.

'''Myke:''' I can't find what cleaner means. By the way. I don't think it has a meaning. And by the way. It's C-L-E-N-A.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. I don't even know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. Like it took me a long time. To learn how to pronounce Sleechy.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. I would. I would probably say. It's more like cleaner. Or something. Than cleaner.

'''Brad:''' But. What is that in Icelandic?

'''Myke:''' Don't even. I. Because I try Googling. Like in every time. If I just search for the word cleaner. It's just like different companies. That use this name. So like. Yeah. I don't know what it means.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. So. Neither do I. And I haven't looked up. But it's this really neat little design. That they've done. And they've tried to separate it out. To where. Hey. This is the fine tip version. Of the Energel. It's going to be in this barrel. So. We'll see. I would like to. I would like them to continue. On. Down this path. And. It would. Carry on up the charts. If you will. So. I think it's a great. I think it's a great pen. Off the list. Myke. Is. The famed. Pilot High Tech Sea. I've found myself. Over the past few years. Never recommending it. To almost anyone. You have to come. Come to me. With a very specific application. That you want to. Use a pen for. Where. The Pilot High Tech Sea. Would fit. And this is. What we were leading into. In the beginning. Talking about. What I use. Versus recommendations. It's probably. My second most used. Pen. On this list. Right. Out. Behind the DX. DX. Number one. With a bullet. On my personal list. And this list. Like. It's a real separator. Like. It's the S tier. Right. It's. It's a full. Standard deviation. Ahead. Of everything else. I like. The Pilot High Tech Sea. I like. The Pilot High Tech Sea. 0.3 millimeter. In particular. I would never tell. Anyone. To buy. Any Pilot High Tech Sea. Unless you're willing. To have. Some. Frustration points. With its performance. Right. It's the most particular. Finicky. Gel Ink pen. And I've said this for years. But I would still recommend it. Off and on. Hey. I'm looking for. The finest line. I can get. Well. Then maybe. We have a conversation. But we're also going to understand. That. You might. Want to throw this pen. Across the room. Half the time. Where you could get into. You know. The Energel. Cleaner. The 0.3 millimeter. It won't be as fine. As the Pilot High Tech Sea. 0.25 millimeter. But you're also not going to pull your hair out. Using it. Right. You're going to have a. Much more enjoyable experience. So like. I don't see how I can continue to recommend. The High Tech Sea. When I do think. All of these other options. Are better. For just general use. So. That's. That's my. Thoughts on it. But I still use it. I still love it. Yeah. And. It's just not something. I would recommend.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. I think the time of the High Tech Sea. Of being like a default option. It's kind of over. Because. Yep. It was when there weren't really good options available. Now there's tons of good options available. Which are easier and nicer to use than the High Tech Sea is.

'''Brad:''' Yep. Yep. So. We have this list. Updated. I'm going to continue. Like I said. Not every week. Am I going to do this. But. I will be able to. Go through the list. The further I go. In the. Down the list. The. The easier it will be. And. Right until I get into. Like. The sub $50 fountain pen range. Which I think I'm going to change. So. We can save that for another podcast. I think we're going to have to break that down into. Your. Very. You know. Buying your first fountain pen. Your most entry level pens. Need a list. Like. Sub $20. Or sub $25. And then we need. We need to split that list up. Because it's not. The. The. The Platinum Preppy. And the TWSBI Eco. Don't necessarily need to fall in the same category. So. I'm trying to figure out how to do that. So. We'll. We'll take that up. When I. When I get to it. But. We'll do that in a few weeks or so. Because I still need to think about how I'm going to. To. Split that up. Definitely some conversations on that.

'''Myke:''' The first thing I'll just say. Put in your mind. Would you consider. Not making it a price thing? Yes. Okay.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. That is definitely on the table. I think that might be a way to go. The fountain pens. Like. The price range in the fountain pens is.

'''Brad:''' Almost useless.



== Fountain Pen Categories ==


'''Myke:''' I feel like. You could do starter pens. Which would all be cartridges. Right. Mm-hmm. Then you've got like. Upgrade pens. Which then. You start seeing. Ink bottles. And then like. Another category. I don't know the name of. But that's when we're getting into. Yeah. Premium. Premium pens. Premium fountain pens.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. It's just so hard to define.

'''Brad:''' A. It's hard to. Make a rule set. Around a group of fountain pens.

'''Myke:''' I think that there is an easy. Rule number one. Which is. Any starter pen. Use cartridges. Mm-hmm. Right. Yep. Like. There's no ink. There's no like ink bottles involved. Because. Right. No one's doing that. Really.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Outside of that. It's complicated. The categories are essentially. My first fountain pen. My upgraded fountain pen. And my hobbyist fountain pen. Right. Sure. That kind of. Kind of set up. So. I don't know. It's. It's. The prices are. Like. Almost. I don't want to say. Insignificant. Like. They're very. Also. The prices. To change. Expensive stuff. Yeah. I've had things move out of categories. Right. Like. The pen hasn't changed. But now it's a hundred dollars more. Like the sailor stuff. Yep. So. Yeah. I. There will be a lot of. Thinking on. On that. And I'm almost certainly. Going to redo it. Into something like we're talking about. I just don't have it. Like. Set up in my head yet. Yeah. Or clearly. Clearly defined. But that's. It's. It's going to be much. Different looking. Like. I don't. I think the price. Point list. For the fountain pens. Is.

'''Brad:''' Gotten kind of meaningless. So. We'll figure out a better way. To present that info. And. Like. I just. Basically. I want to get. My most recommended pens. List it out. And then. What. What categories. Do they fall in. And how can we group these together. So. We'll see. It'll be. It'll be good. So. I look forward to it. So. We'll. We'll continue on down. We have a. Well. That's actually going to be pretty close. The next list. Is top five pens in the store. Then we get right into. Top five fountain pens under 50. And that's where I'm going to have to. Break things a little bit. So. I look forward to. Tackling that here soon. Very soon. We got to get that updated.

'''Myke:''' All right. If you would like to help support the show. You can go check out. Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform. For building your brand. And growing your business online. You can stand out with a beautiful website. Engage with your audience. And sell anything. Your products. Services. And even. The content. You create. Squarespace has you covered. I've used Squarespace. For over 10 years. So is Brad. You know. We were just talking about the top five pen list. You know. We find that. Penadict.com. You know what penadict.com is. It's a Squarespace website. Because they make it so easy. So if you want to get blogging too. You want to blog of your own. Maybe you have your own top five list. And maybe you want to battle Brad. At top fives. Squarespace. Has powerful blogging tools. To share your stories. Your opinions. Your thoughts. Your feelings. Your photos. Your videos. Updates. And more. You can categorize them. And share them. Schedule your posts. To make your content work for you. Whatever you want to do. Super smart. Taking that smart. Squarespace. Insights. Are smart. They're going to help you grow your business. Grow your website. If you've ever wondered. Where your site visitors are coming from. Where your sales are coming from. If you have an online store with Squarespace. And which channels are most effective for you. Squarespace helps you analyze all of this. Then once you have the data. You can improve your website. In meaningful ways. And you can build a marketing. Or content strategy. Based around your most popular content. Or products. Or keywords. You can even if you want to. Because they have everything. Remember. It's all in one. You can get started with Squarespace email campaigns. So you can stand out. In anybody's inbox. I want to encourage your visitors. To sign up as email subscribers. To start them on a journey. To becoming loyal customers. Or loyal visitors. You just start with an email template. You know. They have templates for email campaigns. And emails like they do. They're beautiful website templates as well. You just start with one of their templates. You customize it. You apply your brand ingredients. Site colors. Logo. That kind of thing. And of course. They have built in analytics. So you can measure the impact. Of every email that you send. So go try this out for yourself. Right now. Go to squarespace.com. And you can sign up for a free trial. With no credit card required. Then build your entire website. Check it out for yourself. When you're ready to launch. Use the offer code. Penaddict. And you can save 10% off your first purchase. Of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com. Slash penaddict. And then when you sign up. Use the offer code penaddict. You'll get 10% off your first purchase. And you'll show your support for the show. Our thanks to Squarespace. For the continued support of this show. And RelayFM.

'''Brad:''' All right. Let's tackle some Ask TPA this week. And we've got. I've got some older questions in here. I need to get to. Put some good stuff. So how about we do that? I love it.

'''Myke:''' All right. I love it. The first one comes from Kai. Who says. So I've grown my collection. To about 40 or 50 pens. Now's the time for me to consider. Selling some of those pens. The ones that don't work for me. Or that I love. But don't find myself using constantly. What is the best way. For newer fountain pen hobbyists. To start selling gently used pens.

'''Brad:''' As weird as it sounds. And I've mentioned this before. Reddit slash rpenswap. Is legitimately good.

'''Brad:''' Many people don't use Reddit. Many people do use Reddit. Or most people in our community. Don't realize there is just a huge. Fountain pen community over there. Which has made the pen swap community. Very successful. It's very highly moderated. Right. They want everyone to have good transactions. I have used them very successfully. In buying pens. I haven't sold anything through there. But I've bought pens through there. I couldn't recommend it enough. To be quite honest. You know. Then we have other options. Like the pen addict slack. Which you can email me for an invite to. There's a buy sell channel in there. So those are kind of like the two best options. You can always go the eBay route. That's always a little bit weirder for me. Like especially if you're not experienced. With it. But that's kind of the main groups. Yeah. That I would go to first. And good for you for starting to thin the herd a little bit. You know. That's something I'm always trying to work on. I'm a little bit further behind. Than I wish I was in cleaning out some of my pens right now. But that's just the way. You know. Life goes sometimes. But I will be doing this myself. You know. Here. You know. I don't know. Probably after pen shows now. I'm just running up. Once you've done the 100. Running up to it. And yeah. So I have to do that. Like that's the other project I have to get done. Like really soon. By the end of the year. So both of the. I have two. There's two big projects for me to be working on. So yeah. Like I have 10 or 20 pens. Like I need to sell. So yeah. And those are the places I would look to first.

'''Myke:''' Saying about the pen swap. That's like. For keyboard sales. Like you used keyboard sales. The second hand market. There's a subreddit called Mac Market. And that's where it all happens. Okay. I bought things from Mac Market. Yeah. It's great. There's like. There's really strict rules about everything. Yep. And the way that you say everything. You have to post an image. With like your username. Yep. In the image. Like you've got to write on a piece of paper or whatever. Put it next to it. So you can prove that you had the product. Yep. And then. Like. There's then a bot that contacts you. To confirm the sales went well. Mm-hmm. Afterwards. Like I don't know. It depends what does this. But I think it's really clever. So. And then you. Then it's like. It's posted in a thread. Of like. Confirmed sales.

'''Brad:''' Right. Right. There's like a lot of interest and stuff. You do have to have a little bit of Reddit history. You know. To be able to list in these things. But it's pretty easy to. You know. To just. Hey. Go hang out in the fountain pens group. And you know.

'''Myke:''' It's a good idea. If you want to sell. On one of these forums. To actually start participating in it beforehand. Like just like. Right. Looking up. Voting. Maybe commenting. So you want us to get a bit more understanding. Of how to buy and sell in them. Mm-hmm. Rather than just like. Go in there and being like. All right. Let's get out the checkbook.

'''Brad:''' Right. Right. So yeah. Like I. I. Yeah. I would give it a thumbs up for me. So that's very cool. Fibber asks. What makes a good ink bottle?

'''Brad:''' A good ink holder. Or a good countertop. Mostly.

'''Brad:''' So that gets into the good ink bottle. Is. Solid base. Depth. And a wide opening. Yeah. And.

'''Myke:''' You got to be able to. For me. This is complicated. To be able to get the ink. Out. Of the bottle. Without needing to like. Put the bottle on its edge. Or something wild. Right. Like. The pure square. Ink bottles. For me. They don't. They don't. They don't go to the end. You know.

'''Brad:''' Yeah.

'''Myke:''' It annoys me.

'''Brad:''' So also.



== Ink Bottle Criteria ==


'''Brad:''' Who are we answering this question from? Because I think of it from. What makes a good ink bottle. From a manufacturing perspective. And what makes a good. You know. Business perspective. And what makes a good ink bottle. From a consumer perspective. Because all you have to do. Is look at Robert Oster. Right. It's. I can't imagine. Anyone would go. Oh. This is my favorite ink bottle. To fill ink from. Right. But I guarantee you. Robert Oster's like. Hey. I've saved a lot of weight. In these plastic bottles. Shipping from Australia. To around the world. So I don't have to charge you. Fifty dollars. For a bottle of ink. Right. So. How do you answer the question then? What is a good ink bottle? Well. It's pretty good for Robert Oster. See. I'm getting my business hat on.

'''Myke:''' And they're so. If the customer's not so great. Because you could just knock them over so easily. And destroy everything.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Like. I. You're not going to get me to say. That it's a great ink bottle. For customer usage. They. Fortunately. The inks are that good. To where. You just be careful. Right. Just be careful. But. Can you list. Like. How many good ink bottles are out there? I. I would argue that the list is extraordinarily short. Right. There's. Ackerman. Does it end there?

'''Myke:''' I think that.

'''Brad:''' I like the Roshizuku bottles. I think the Roshizuku bottles are good. They have a good base. And a good. Yeah. But. Opening. They're deep enough.

'''Myke:''' They're the issue. If you could. But like. Trying to get the ink out of the bottom of those things. Is so hard.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. No. I agree. I mean. Sailor's. You know. Ink pots are horrible. Again. That's just one of my favorite inks. I have more. Sailor inks. And Robert Oster inks. And both of those bottles are not good. But the inks are great. You know. The Mont Blanc shoe bottles. Are pretty good. I. I do like those. So. But. I mean. There is a. A dearth. Of. Good. Ink bottle design. Lamy ink bottles. I do not like the Lamy ink bottles.

'''Myke:''' Even though they come with a blight and paper. Isn't that like the number one thing that you care about? Yeah.

'''Brad:''' Yeah.

'''Myke:''' I think they're cool looking. I think they look fantastic. They're one of the better looking bottles. They've got that kind of like 50s. 60s design. Yeah. I enjoy.

'''Brad:''' But I mean. To me. It's no different in shape than the Roshizuku. Right. It's just like a.

'''Brad:''' You know. Deeper bottle with a depression in the bottom. I mean.

'''Myke:''' Evan's made a good second point. Is that they have a divot on the bottom of the bottle.

'''Brad:''' Which is really good. I like it when they have that. So does the Roshizuku. It's just not as pronounced. It's because the bottle is deeper to begin with. Yeah. Like I'm not standing here for the Roshizuku bottle. But I'm just complaining. I'm just comparing. Like. It's really better than you think it is. When you start comparing it to other bottles. It's pretty darn good. Like it's better than Diamine. Yeah. Than Diamine standard bottles. And Diamine standard bottles. There's nothing wrong with them. They're just. Stubbier. Right. They're not as deep.

'''Myke:''' Like I never would have guessed. That you were in the pocket of Big Roshizuku. But I guess you were.

'''Myke:''' You know me.

'''Myke:''' Mary asks. Do you know of any black inks with sheen? Roshizuku. Oh gosh. I have plenty of blue sheening inks. But I would like some black ones as well. This is interesting to me.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. There is no Roshizuku black sheening ink. Actually Roshizuku black inks are not good. And you just need to do pilot black. But that's not the question. So black inks with sheen. There's very few. Nurobaro by Kiyo No Oto. Comes immediately to mind. It has a good sheen. It's almost. Coated is not the right word. Like platinum carbon black. Is like a coated thing. But this actually has some sheen. Where you can see it glistening. Like when you. If you hold it up to the light. You can see that clear. Like sheen on the black. So I sent that over to Mary. And she appreciated that. What.

'''Brad:''' Gosh. There was another one. Dominant Industries. I think just made a black. That I saw Kelly review. On Mountain of Ink. That might have had some sheen. But the color didn't look good. Like it didn't really look like a good black ink. Like. Nurobaro is a good black ink. That also sheens. Like. It's just a good black ink in general. So it's. It's really good. That's the one I would recommend. And there's just not a lot of other options out there. The only other option. I kind of mentioned. Was platinum carbon black. And it doesn't sheen. But it's almost like a glossy finish. When it dries. Like it's a. It's a special pigmented ink. But it's really good in fountain pens. And a lot of artists use it. Because it's permanent. It's one of the richest. Darkest blacks. So it doesn't necessarily sheen. But you can see. Almost. You know when something dries. And there's a glossy coat. As opposed to like a sheen coat. And this looks. Glossy. And the carbon black. But I would totally go for Nurobaro. It's just a good black ink. To begin with. And it's got that. Added effect. Of a little bit of sheen.

'''Myke:''' If you would like to send in a question. Of your own. For us to answer in a future episode. You can send out a tweet. With the hashtag. Ask TPA. You can use question mark. Ask TPA. In the Relay FM members discord. Or you can send. Longer questions. Via email. To hello. At penaddict.com If you would like to find Brad. In the meantime. Until next episode. You can go to penaddict.com He is penaddict on Instagram. Dowdy is on Twitter. And Brad streams live. Three times a week. Or at twitch.tv. Slash penaddict. Make sure you go. Check out his streams. I am at imike. I am yke. And we'll be back. Next week. Thank you to Canalea Penco. Thank you to Squarespace. For the support. Say goodbye Brad. Goodbye Brad.

[[Category:Podcast Transcripts]]
[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]