Editing The Pen Addict 517/transcript

{{Infobox podcast transcript
| name            = The Pen Addict
| number          = 517
| title           = Ride or Die Hobonichi
| date            = June 8th, 2022
| hosts           = [[Brad Dowdy]]<br>
[[Myke Hurley]]
| guests          = [[April Wu]]
| link            = [https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/517 Episode 517]
| audiolink       = [https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/thepenaddict/penaddict517.mp3 Audio Episode 517]
| length          = 61
}}

'''Brad:''' From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 517. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace. My name is Brad Dowdy, and today I'm joined by... Wait, who am I joined by today? Who is on the other end of this line? Hello! Hey friends, it's April from Penguins Creative. Hey April, how are you? How are you, Brad? Oh my god, I'm so happy you asked me to come back on to the show. I mean, I'm going to just go ahead and get into it. You are such a treat to talk to. I've gotten to know you a little bit more over the last couple of years as I've watched you grow as a stationery creator. I'm a fan. Now, working in the business, and we have an insane amount to talk about, and we talk reasonably frequently. Like, we know a little bit of each other's business, like what's going on, and we check in every now and then. But I just think there's so much to talk to you about today that I'm really excited to get you on the podcast and give our listeners a little peek inside of all things April and all things Penguins Creative. I've got to ask you this, and I was thinking when I was writing the show notes for this, and I'm going to go straight off the notes from the jump.

'''April:''' Okay.



== Introduction ==


'''Brad:''' I had you on the Penatic Members show called Friend of the Show. I can't remember, and I didn't go back and listen to it because I'm terrible at show preparation. Did I ask you where the name Penguins Creative came from? I don't know that I did.

'''April:''' Oh no, I don't remember as well.

'''Brad:''' It's just one of those fun names that happened along the way, right?

'''April:''' I can kind of go over it again, though. I actually don't know if I ever shared it, but it used to be Penguins R Us, you know, like Toys R Us. Because I love penguins. Like, in high school, I doodle penguins. It's my thing. Everyone's like, she's the penguin girl. And then, like, when I brought it back to Taiwan, I went to college in Taiwan, and no one got the Toys R Us reference. Like, the joke didn't translate. So, I had to switch it to Penguins Creative. When it translates to Chinese, it's more, like, understandable because I was doing some doodles online back then, and that name just stuck till now.

'''Brad:''' All right. Well, then, let's start. You said you were doing doodles online back then, but before that, when did you figure out that, you know, you were into this whole stationary thing that we're all, like, so crazy passionate about? When did you realize, like, you had a stationary problem, and you were, like, hunting down all the stationary and you had to have the things? Were you a kid? Was it later in life, in school? Tell me about that.

'''April:''' I kind of interpreted that question a different way, but I've always, like, I feel like I've always had a stationary problem. I was always into stationary as a kid. I grew up in Taiwan. What do you expect? Like, Asian stationary is the thing. It's been top of people's mind, you know, as a school kid, as a high schooler, as, like, a college student, you're always accessing tons of amazing pens and products. But March 6, 2015, I was in the middle of the woods in a long queue.

'''Speaker 02:''' That's when I knew I had a stationary problem.

'''Brad:''' Okay, you got to elaborate on this.

'''April:''' It was a creator's market. So, 2015 was when, like, stationary washi tapes really started taking off. A lot of creators were making amazing washi tapes. And then a few creators decided to do this fun thing where they decided to host a craft fair, kind of like a market thing, in the middle of the mountains, kind of like a nature thing. And it's like an hour and a half away from my house. I had to take the bus. I had to take the bus, took the train, transferred to another bus, walked up this trail, like, up into this clearing in the woods. And then stood in queue, because we all love queuing in Taiwan. That's an inside joke. But I was in that queue for two hours to finally get to that booth where I met Hank Styrie, who's an amazing illustrator and creator in Taiwan, even up to today, to buy a limited edition washi tape. And so that's when I knew I had a stationary problem.

'''Brad:''' You officially win. I don't know what it is that you win, but you just won the stationary internet. You're the winner. That is outrageously cool. And everyone here is going, whoa, she did what? And they're also going, yeah, I'd probably do the same thing.

'''Speaker 02:''' You guys would probably do the same if it's like a special limited edition fountain pen. You'd do the same.

'''April:''' I mean, it was only $50 worth of washi tape.

'''Speaker 02:''' But still, yeah.

'''Brad:''' So at the time you're doing this, you're queuing up in the mountains for washi tape. Are you just using all these things for your personal use? Have you started to publish things online? What was that time like and just the way you were using stationary?

'''April:''' That was truly the beginning of my, I guess, peak stationary journey. I have several peaks throughout my life so far. But I didn't get into stationary as hard as I do now, not until like 2014, the end of 2014. I just came back from like this like grueling grinding job in Thailand. I was working at a factory as like a purchaser. And it was like a six day a week grind. And I did nothing creative. And in 2014, end of 2014, my aunt gifted me a Hobonichi, the English planner. And then that's also when I decided to kind of take a gap year for myself to prep for grad school. I was going to apply to grad school in the US. And for that year with that Hobonichi, I was like, okay, I'm going to write in this every single day and put stickers on them and draw through those so that I really make the best use of my everyday. Or I would feel like none of the days were wasted away. And so around that time was when I really jumped full, like, two feet straight into this rabbit hole on the internet. I was in all these, like, Hobonichi user groups. I was in the Traverse Notebook forum. And I was kind of getting into pens, but still the cheaper ends of things, not the deep end yet. And I was just, you know, using them on a daily basis in my Hobonichi throughout 2015. And 2015, at the end of 2015, around September was when I officially, like, moved to the US for grad school. So I was without a job. I didn't have anywhere I needed to go. I was just, my whole life that year was just stationary.

'''Speaker 02:''' Yeah, I was going to stationary stores every other day.



== Peak Stationery Journey ==


'''Brad:''' That's pretty amazing. So I think about that time, like, that's really not that long ago. But then, like, probably you and I can sit here and think about, like, that's ages ago. And, like, the things that we use and, like, how our tastes have changed. But it's funny, it's as busy and as active as, like, the communities were at that time. I think it's just still, like, a straight line trajectory up from then till now. Like, it has not stopped. Absolutely. At least in my perspective. Yeah.

'''April:''' A hundred percent.

'''Brad:''' So is that when all the, you started to do, like, the Instagram and started sharing more of your things online? You're starting to meet people and learning more stuff online. Is that around when your, like, your Instagram started? Like, what was your first kind of stationary social media platform? When did that start?

'''April:''' That was the same time, 2015. Okay.

'''Brad:''' That's what I was thinking.

'''April:''' Early 2015. So up till March, I haven't been sharing much. I did share that in the woods experience with the Hobonichi users groups. And then after that, I started my Instagram account. I rebranded from Penguin's Artist to Penguin's Creative. And I started sharing my Hobonichi spreads. So that was how it began. And I turned on YouTube. I think that was when YouTube creators and, like, planner journaling videos were starting to take off as well. And I watched those on a daily basis. And I was like, I could do some of these. So I started my YouTube channel. I started posting on Instagram. And then started being super active. Like, I somehow became one of the moderators in the Hobonichi users group throughout that year. And then when time comes for me to go to the U.S., I was like, I've been talking to all these people on the other side. Like, via English, obviously, I was connecting with all these people in the U.S. over Hobonichi. I was like, can we meet up? Like, can I actually find these people? And so, and that was my first time in the U.S. I was like, I need to make friends. I have no idea what this world is like. So I was in Boston. I was traveling to all these cities. And whenever I travel, I would put a shout out in the group. Be like, hey, anyone uses Hobonichi? Do you want to meet up? And I know, being that person myself, that people like us are dying to talk about pens and, like, journals and stuff to people who would listen to us. So those shout outs worked. And I actually got to, like, through the Internet, through being in these Facebook groups, got to meet a lot of people and make friends in different cities, actually. And built, like, a very solid frequent journaling meetup group in whichever city I was in for that period of time. And when I finally settled in Seattle for, like, because I graduated and I finally had a solid job here. And that was when I really, like, took it off even deeper with the podcast and, like, with the community and all that stuff. That's amazing. And like you said, the growth of stationary variety has not stopped for a second since then.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, yeah, not at all. So we're going to dig into more planner-specific stuff later, including what you're doing now. Wink, wink. But I want to know what it was about the Hobonichi product at the time that allowed just such an expressiveness for you to not only enjoy your stationary from a personal perspective, but, like, what do you enjoy the most about sharing, you know, Hobonichi layouts and spreads and things like that?

'''April:''' I think the Hobonichi is still my ride or die planner, even up to today. Like, I think I will either it or me is going to go out first. Like, I love my Hobonichi. I've been using it, like I said, since 2014, never stopped using it. And I think what I love about it is how well it holds together every single day of my life and its memories and the people I've met, the things I've done, all together in this sturdy, amazing binding. Like, it's not even about the paper. It's the binding.

'''Brad:''' Which is, like, the paper's wafer thin. Like, this should not work, right? Exactly, yeah.

'''April:''' And then compound with, obviously, amazing paper, Tomor River paper through its ups and downs. And the fountain pen compatibility, now that I'm getting into this deeper end of the stationary obsession, it just holds up and it fits with everything. Everything goes into it. I was able to keep up with every page. And I think that's the best part about a hobby is to see progress, right? Like, any hobby or interest is to have physical evidence of daily growth or daily improvement or deterioration, whatever. And Hobonichi gives me that. Like, I know that I, just like I felt with my first Hobonichi in that gap year, I did not waste a single day of my life knowing each day in my Hobonichi, I can find something that I'm pretty, like, happy or proud of or can smile about. So, yeah.

'''Brad:''' So, I had this thought when I was putting together these notes and it didn't hit me until I was, like, actually typing these up.

'''April:''' Mm-hmm.

'''Brad:''' And knowing you like I do and being able to talk to you and seeing everything that you do. Yeah. Does everything with you start with the journal and then transition into the broader stationary scope? Hey, then we have the pens and the stickers and the washi and, you know, the inks and things like that. Because I was thinking about it for myself. It's kind of the reverse, right? When I look at the things that I like and the things that I do, I tend to start with the pen and then, you know, secondarily I get into, you know, the paper and other things like that. Am I onto something there with how you create things and how you use things?

'''April:''' I think you're right. I think it does start with the journal with me. Like, I've always kept a diary or journal throughout my whole life. Like, even as a kid, we get assignments to do these, like, do those and then you write about your day. You know, I've always been, I like that process, I guess, of documenting. And then when Hobonichi came along, it was, like, the first expensive, like, book that actually made me want to, like, write something worthy in it. Even though it didn't really, like, not everything is, like, worthy of the Hobonichi, but whatever. And I love the Hobonichi because the, like you said, it started with the page and the intention to record. The intention to, like, keep track of what's good and bad in my life. And then the pens come after that. Like, okay, I can put different colors on different pages based on my moods. And then the stickers come after that because, like, oh, these are cute. I think of stickers as collections of arts and I want to, like, put them into my journal because they make me happy for that day. And it always starts with that day anyway. And then anything afterwards, like, whenever, I love collecting ephemera. And then I love putting them into my Hobonichi because they make up my day. So, again, it goes back to the intention of wanting to document, wanting to, uh, Hobonichi has that saying, happy birthday, like, omedeto, like, something inside the each of the cover. It basically means not every day has to be, like, the special day. Any day could be celebrated. And so I really can relate to that. And it's just part of, like, you know, my stationary hobby is this intention to capture my day as a very normal small person in this giant world. Like, I mean something, I guess. And then all the stationary surrounds the book. Yeah. Like, they surround me now.

'''Brad:''' Okay. So that leads me into my next question. I'm going to ask for your utmost honesty in replying to this question. How many journals and planners are you actively using right now?

'''April:''' So who watched my video?



== Daily Planner Usage ==


'''Brad:''' Like, on YouTube? I have a link. I have a link to the video, y'all. This is a legitimate question. I have a link to one of April's videos we'll put in the show notes, which y'all can check.

'''April:''' Yeah.

'''Brad:''' So let me know. I need a number.

'''April:''' Okay. So in that video, it was 10 for 2022. But I have to be honest and say I probably dropped it to 8 right now.

'''Brad:''' Oh, just 8.

'''April:''' Just 8. I keep 8 on a daily basis. But then again, like, I feel like we have to, like, add some justifiers and, like, you know, explanation.

'''Brad:''' Walk us through this. Walk us through the 8 as best as you can. You don't have to go into, like, crazy detail. But give me an idea of what a day of 8 journals and planners looks like.

'''April:''' I know. Some of them are planners. Some of them are notebook. Some of them are journals. So I don't, like, spend 8 hours a day on each, like, on all 8 journals, right? My planner probably takes up 2 to 5 minutes of my day. And so I have, like, my plotters as my planner. I have a plotter Bible size as my everyday scheduler. I have the 8-5 plotter as, like, a work planner, which I use for all things that's related to what I do now, my job. And then I have a narrow-sized plotter for keeping track of my expenses. So finance, investments, all that stuff goes in there. So that's three. And those are what I consider the schedulers. So I don't use them, like, you know, an hour a day. Those take up bits and pieces of my day.

'''Brad:''' It's like a small little fixed-use time frame, and then you're done.

'''April:''' Exactly. And so on the more time-consuming part are my journals, diaries. So my Hobonichi, obviously. That one's my, like I said, my ride or die. The only thing I actually spend 20 to 30 minutes a day in, if I can. I usually catch up, too. I don't really journal in it every day, some weeks. I use the weekend to catch up on 2 to 3 pages. That's totally fine. I have a Chinese diary that I was trying to do this year to really, you know, I see CY writes in amazing Chinese, and I'm like, my mother tongue is, like, falling off. Like, I need to write, like, I want to have better penmanship with my Chinese. So I have a journal for that. It's the Hour's Diary, the Hour Studio Diary, also by Hank's Diary. So that guy I mentioned earlier that I queued up in line for.

'''Brad:''' Oh, wow.

'''April:''' So that one. And then I have a Thinking of You journal, which is also by a Taiwanese creator. It's this elegant collage journal. So that niche section in the stationery world where they collage stuff and put things together. So it looks very aesthetics and beautiful. That's my Thinking of You journal. So I call it, like, kind of my decorative and also planning some stuff for the stationery podcast journal. So multiple purposes. For purposes, I have the Traverse Notebook, obviously, for when I travel. And actually, what travel is a broad term for what I do. It's kind of like if I go out to get coffee or do some cafe journaling, that's traveling.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, I think that's great. Yeah.

'''April:''' Within the city, within, like, my blog, like, I go out with Cookie, go on this extra long walk, my dog, Cookie, on this long walk. That's my travel journal right there. And then what's my last one? Huh. Within my weeks.

'''Speaker 02:''' Oh, no.

'''April:''' I'm looking around. I'm like, what's my last one that I've been keeping an eye on?

'''Brad:''' This is an emergency situation.

'''April:''' I know. I need to pull out my YouTube video and, like, look at the list I had on there. But, yeah. No. But these are basically my week. I can't say it's like a day, but it's kind of like my week.

'''Speaker 02:''' Oh, my five-year techo. My five-year Hobonichi techo. Which, okay, I'm not using that. I'm using Seven Planners this year.

'''Brad:''' So, okay. Let me, I was going to ask you a specific question about the five-year planner. You're not currently using it because everyone, you know, that follows me on my stream, the way that I write and the way that I think about things, they're like, you need a three-year or a five-year. Just do it. Just do it. And I'm like, I'm super tentative, right? Because I have, I don't really, I basically have two kind of writing outlets. Like, I have my planner, my Hobonichi Cousin A5. And then I just have a journal, just like a notebook that kind of everything else can go into.

'''April:''' Yeah. Yeah.

'''Brad:''' And it's not really segmented up more than that. And I was like, well, that would be a third thing. And then I start thinking about redundancy. And I don't know. So how long had you used like one of the three-year or five-year journals? Have you been successful with that? Obviously, you say you're not using it now. Give me some thoughts on that.

'''April:''' I'm on the third year of my five-year journal. So that's the third year of my five-year TEDx show. And I always start strong. And then like you said, it's the redundancy. Like, I just feel like I'm copying the same thing from one journal to the other. And I didn't want to do that. And so I kind of like turned it to like my milestone journal. Like if anything super significant comes up during this year, then I'll put in my five-year TEDx show. So I'm really not touching it on a daily basis. I only write on it like once a month or like once every two months maybe. But I'm on my third year. And so I was like, maybe I can go back to it again in 2023. Who knows?

'''Brad:''' Can you explain the idea? And you mentioned it a minute ago about using your planner or your journal from a catching up perspective as opposed to pressuring yourself to do it every day? Because once I realized it was okay to catch up, it just it opened up everything for me. So tell me about that.

'''April:''' I know. Planning, journaling, writing, whatever you want to call this hobby. It's supposed to be for fun. Like if you are catching up, it's a chore. Then why are you doing a second job at night? You know, like seriously, I love catching up in my journal because it gives me like a big chunk of time I can do on the weekend. That's kind of like my hobby time. And, you know, the Hobonichi has a day a page. So if you accidentally skip one or two, a lot of people have that like blank page syndrome or fear like, oh, no, it's staring back at me. So I do this thing where I like actually take quick notes in the front. I use the Hobonichi Cousin. So it has like weekly section. So I kind of write down bullet points of the log of basically what went down that day. And then in my catch ups, I get to go back and really spend more time choosing the right paper or the right sticker or the right place in the right washi tape. And then it became like an art playing section. And like, so it's really, really nice for me. I love catching up. I love saying that I'm about to catch up in my journals because that means it's fun time.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, I think that's a good perspective to have, right? Like these journals or planners that we all keep, it should not be pressure, right? We're doing this to relieve the pressure. If you're putting your pressure on yourself, like I always put pressure on myself. Well, today is this date. And if I don't do something on this date, I failed. And I used to think that way. And once I got over that and realized that it's okay to catch up or it's okay to skip a day here and there, as long as it's not regular, you know, that it just freed me up to actually enjoy grabbing this notebook and doing something I like to do. So yeah, I think that's a really good perspective to have.

'''April:''' Yeah, exactly.

'''Brad:''' In the bigger picture of catching up, I've noticed like on your YouTube channel, you will do basically an annual or a twice a year review of what you're doing. Can you tell me about like the techo-kaigi? Is that the proper pronunciation?

'''April:''' Techo-kaigi.

'''Brad:''' Kaigi. Yeah.

'''April:''' Techo-kaigi is a Japanese word. And I think it's the station community or the journaling community in Japan made it up or they use, kaigi means meeting. So if you are having a meeting about anything, you put like the noun in front of it. So techo means planners or journals or notebooks. So it's just us who are really obsessed with like owning multiple books, having a sit down and a talking to with ourselves about what I'm planning to use for next year, what I did or do not like this year, you know, what I want to improve on this year. So techo-kaigi, I do that in November right before the new year. And I also do one in the middle of the year to kind of like reflect, like my number went down from like 10 to 7, right? So why did that happen? So techo-kaigi is super fun though, because you think of possibilities for each book you own, because we are all chronic notebook owners and we have multiple. So it's fun to do that. And to really kind of like think about how you want to be intentional about your stuff. And I think that's much better than just like buying stuff and then putting them into a shelf. And then I think I'll use it for something the other day and then like never go back to it. So techo-kaigi is really, really fun. And I recommend it for anyone who wants to think intentionally about anything you own. You can have a pen-kaigi. You can have a washi tape de-stache-kaigi.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. That kind of stuff. Maybe that's kind of what I'm doing with the kind of thinning out how many fountain pens I own.

'''April:''' Didn't you just buy that case and then you're doing the whole like kind of pick?



== Plotter System Overview ==


'''Brad:''' We're going to audit it down to 100 fountain pens kind of thing.

'''April:''' I think audit is a great word for kaigi. Audit is a great translation for kaigi.

'''April:''' Yeah. If it's in English, it would be a planner audit.

'''Brad:''' Yep. Yep. Exactly. All right. That is unbelievable how you manage all that and get to go back through all the planners. That is definitely something I have to look into. But maybe it is this pen thing that I'm doing that gets me into this whole audit flow that I need to figure out for myself. So I want to talk about a specific planner that you are directly involved in. And I have some questions about a certain brand called Plotter. And I think you might be the right person to ask. But before I do that, I want to tell everyone about our good friends at Squarespace who are sponsoring this episode of The Pen Addict. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform for building your brand and growing your business online. You can stand out with a beautiful website, engage with your audience, and sell anything. Your products, your services, even the content you create. Squarespace has got you covered. With Squarespace, you can use insights to grow your business. If you ever wondered where your visits and sales are coming from, which channels are most effective, you can analyze all of that in Squarespace. Once you have the data, you can improve your website and build a marketing strategy based on your top keywords or most popular products and content. You can also sell your products on an online store. That's something I do at The Pen Addict. Whether you sell physical or digital products, Squarespace has the tools you need to start selling online. And it's also my preferred blogging platform. Squarespace has powerful blogging tools to share stories, photos, videos, and updates. You'll be able to categorize, share, and schedule your posts to make content work for you. I'm obviously a huge fan. We've been using Squarespace here at The Pen Addict for the longest time, and I appreciate everything that they do. So listeners of The Pen Addict can get a free trial at Squarespace. Head over to squarespace.com slash penaddict. No credit card is required. And if you're ready to launch, if you like what you see and want to continue on, use the offer code penaddict to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So head over to squarespace.com slash penaddict. When you decide to sign up, use the offer code penaddict, all one word, to get 10% off your first purchase and to show your support. Thanks to Squarespace for their support of this show and all of RelayFM.

'''Brad:''' Tell me how Plotter came into your life.

'''April:''' Plotter. It came unexpectedly. Because I'm not a ring person. I don't want to use the word hate, but I really don't like ring planners. It's different.

'''Brad:''' It's different, right? So just to set the stage for people who don't know, Plotter is, tell us what Plotter is. And then I kind of led you down the secondary question. But for people who don't know, what is a Plotter or what is the brand Plotter?

'''April:''' So yes, Plotter is an analog system that makes daily creative work enjoyable for people. It's a six ring, soon to be five ring, letter ring binder from Japan. So it's a sister company to the other well-known brand, Traveler's Notebook. But Plotter started out five years ago and it's this creative. And in my opinion, very new kind of like ring, planner, journal, notebook experience for people who are looking into an organizer, a scheduler, a diary, a notebook that can make you feel more in control with whatever project. And then inspires your creativity when you are working on them. I love Plotter. And like you asked, how did I get to know Plotter? I didn't. And it all started actually, the origin story is that I interviewed Yuri, who is my boss now at Design Film America. Last year, November? No, sorry, 2020 November, I did a podcast episode for the Stationery Cafe with Yuri about Traveler's Notebook. And so we got to talk a little bit afterwards, like a few times. She was like, oh, she would really love my take about the stationery scene, especially the journaling one. And then that winter, she gifted me a Plotter, an A5 Leashio Leather Plotter as a gift, like a Christmas gift for all the help I've held her with. Like, I don't think they're like true consulting sessions because I was just going off about like, oh, I love this guy.

'''Speaker 02:''' I love the fan addict. I love these people.

'''April:''' You know, I was just doing my usual like stationery talk. But then I got to try it and I was like, wow, this is very, very nice. My first luxury planner journal item, like probably the most expensive I've owned since then. And then the next year, February, she suddenly hit me up and was like, April, do you want to interview for a job at Design Film America? And I'm like, heck yeah. Hook, line and sinker. I'm officially now in the stationery industry working for Design Film America. And one of the first big project actually was not, I didn't actually work on the Traverse Company site at all in that beginning of month. But I was tasked with introducing Plotter to the U.S. market because it's actually a really new brand. Like Plotter is a spinoff from Knox, K-N-O-X, which is another ring leather binder product brand under the Design Film arc in Japan. And it's only like five years old. So very new. But Yuri saw the potential. And I was like, this is going to be something new over here, you know, compared to what's available right now. So an upgrade in many ways in terms of like quality.

'''Brad:''' Yeah.

'''April:''' Not trying to like say bad things about anyone else. But I didn't have any good ring experience, to be honest, like in the past in the U.S. So.

'''Brad:''' Yeah.

'''April:''' So, yeah, I got to kind of learn more about Plotter. I got to like, you know, talk with the director a lot about his vision for Plotter. And then we, I started the job in May. And when we were launching Plotter in September.

'''Speaker 02:''' So four short months to really get it all together. It was the whirlwind of my life, to be honest, my stationary life. Yeah.

'''Brad:''' And fortunately, I got to be part of that. Just kind of the, like the user experience, like the pre-launch user experience program. You know, I was fortunate to, you know, get to take an early look at the Plotter. Everything it could do. Everything it offered. And provide feedback to you and Yuri and the rest of the team who were working on the U.S. launch. And like you said, it's kind of only been its own thing in Japan for like five years, you said. And then bringing it over. That really is a pretty short time frame in the way things go. So how do you think the launch went for y'all in the U.S.?

'''April:''' I think it went great. And it really, like, kudos to everyone who helped me during that beginning month. When we had the supporter program, which you kind of talked about and mentioned. So I felt like the product deserves the feedback for its quality. And it's like the experience itself. Like I've been on the other side of the coin. I have a large following on Instagram for my stationary stuff. So people reach out to me to give me like, hey, would you want to try this product? Do you want to, you know, try this? We'll give it to you for free. And they never follow up with me. Like I literally, like they just want me to show it off on Instagram. That's it. And so I felt like in the end, I started turning down people. I was like, I don't know if I can like commit to like really say good things about this. If I don't like the product and I don't want to waste it by you sending a whole thing to me and not use it. So when we started out with like the promotion program and then also just kind of introducing it to the market. I was like, I need to find people who would really appreciate this, who would really give me good feedback. And, you know, Potter is a lettering binder that we say are for creative work. But it could honestly go beyond artists and designers and go apply to anyone who work in any industry. Because I feel like everyone does creative things every day in their own like job. So I reached out to you and then to a lot of other people like project managers, you know, like a lot of in the architecture firm. Eric Gama, he's like a planner for like planning out like quotations and stuff. So not really super designing, but a lot of math included. So just a variety of people in the community that I know appreciates good things, but also represents a degree of growth in their own career, in their own industry. And I want to like get their feedback on how Potter can help them or be a part of their professional growth and journey. And it really like made me learn a lot of stuff about everyone, to be honest. In each conversation, I got to learn about what people care about when it comes to a work planner or a notebook they use for their professional life work. I got to learn about the nuances of what they do, you know, to get things done, you know, or get things done in an efficient way. And I learned so much and I felt like I did plotter good by like giving it the feedback it deserves. And like you said, it's not new for Japanese company to do this. Right. And I feel strongly about like reflecting back the U.S. market experience because we're right now only doing the U.S. market back to the Japanese people because they could be like very set in like what they expect people you do or use. Especially since Japan is just super mature in terms of like stationary, you know, like they expect people to do use a certain product in a certain way. And that's just how it's always been. But I want the Japan team to know that, hey, we there's a group of people here that cares about stationary, but they may not use it the way you think they use stuff. So it's a thing I'm still trying to like push for design fill. And, you know, I really appreciate the community every day for helping me learn that or letting me lurk in a way. Just kind of like, you know, seeing the different variety of things that catches people's attention and what people truly care about. So, yeah.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, I thought the experience I've never been through an experience like that as far as, you know, just kind of like the preview and how thorough and detailed you and your team were in finding out how I specifically and broader a lot of people use the plotter. And I was impressed like and that's probably selling it short. It was just a master class in like product research. And I was like, it was it was so enjoyable to go through that, even though it may not have been as enjoyable for you because I wasn't always the most responsive was like, Brad, these dates are coming up. And this is what this is, you know, I enjoyed it. You enjoyed chasing Brad through the Internet to get my answers. But no, it was the way it was executed was I'm still thinking about that experience in a positive way. And to have that type of support system behind a product, I just think makes you want to support that product even more. Right. Those that type of work shows in the end results of the product, even though you may not technically be manufacturing the product or or whatever. The type of people who work behind the scenes, I think, really help guide the products as a broader idea. And those types of things translate that attention to detail in, you know, our preview work and, you know, all that initial testing. Those results bear out in the end when it's it's time for launch. And I just thought it was just such a great process. And I hopefully I told you that before. But if not, I'm telling you now that that was a really unique experience. And I took a lot of positive stuff away from that. So how do you think and the team at Plotter, would you do a process like that again for like a full launch or smaller launches? Or was that kind of like, hey, let's get the big launch out of the way and then we'll go from there.

'''April:''' We kind of did it here and there still continuously, even with our gradual launches, because in the beginning, we didn't introduce all the sizes. And so you've seen we had introduced a mini size earlier this year and soon finally the mini five size. And the team back in Japan is still innovating. So they are coming up with new new products all the time. And I feel like it's a matter of like, yeah, really wanting to make sure each release gets the attention it deserves. So I do like while balancing work at Traverse Company and Plotter, I do try to do more of these research experiments. And I'm super excited about the pen shows that's coming up because we are really trying to get the director, Plotter, to be able to come here and visit and like see everyone at the San Francisco pen show. The only hindrance is obviously COVID. So we don't know. That's like the only thing that's kind of keeping the plans from being nailed down. But when he comes, I think it would be a really cool kind of moment or experience for people to really meet him because he's like this super passionate guy about his work. He's the one who went to Italy and sourced the leather. He's the one who comes up with the design. The whole idea about, you know, downsizing to make your work more efficient because, you know, Plotter is a ring binder, but it uses these mini rings, right? So instead of the usual conception of ring planners as like the all-in-one, it's more of all you need, you know, like you really can move things in and out. And he promotes the cycle of like using the ring planner as a cycle of ideas where you are free to put it down anytime, but then also free to remove them and bank them for when it comes to fruition, like maybe a few months later. And the Plotter, the product of his genius, like is that, is that it's a slim, elegant leather product solution that grows with your growth. And then at the same time helps elevate your daily work and keeps your ideas like always fresh and exciting. So I'm super excited. And I have not met him in person as well. So I'm like, I want him to see the people that really likes his product here in the U.S. I want him to like share his methods. And we may or may not have some fun customization event if he does come to the San Francisco pen show. So it's going to be great. It's going to be the next kind of like step in the Plotter growth in the U.S., I think. So, yeah.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. And I'm thinking about it from a product that I use and how I can use it better and what would work for me. And I'm thinking, I've been thinking about in San Francisco and seeing you there and picking up one of the smaller size plotters, either the Bible size or the mini. Nice. Because I would like a very, I think what I would benefit most is having some of the portability from it as opposed to, say, like a traditional A5 size, which I think, you know, would work better in a different situation.

'''April:''' Yeah.

'''Brad:''' I think I would get a lot more day-to-day usefulness. So I'm going to look at that in San Francisco. Anything else I should be, you know, keeping my eyes peeled for in San Francisco?

'''April:''' Even though I said it's been like five years, it kind of like started towards the end of, I think, 2017. So we're hitting our official fifth year anniversary soon. So we may or may not have some cool stuff to preview during the San Francisco pen show for our fifth year anniversary for Plotter.

'''Brad:''' Nice.

'''April:''' And they were originally going to just do in Japan, but I was like, the global market deserves it too. Like the U.S. market wants it too. Specifically me. I want it.

'''Brad:''' Right.

'''April:''' So we're bringing it to the pen show.

'''Brad:''' I like that someone, you know, within the walls has our back. You know, thank you for having our back.

'''Speaker 02:''' I advocate for stuff that I, to be honest, that I want. So, yeah.



== Traveler's Company Collaboration ==


'''Brad:''' That's exactly right. Exactly right. So last year at the San Francisco pen show, that was the official Plotter launch. That was. So this will be a year from now. Are you going to any other pen shows or anything like that in the U.S.?

'''April:''' We'll also be heading over to D.C. earlier in the month. D.C. pen show. So we'll bring both Plotter and Traveler's Company as well. And recruiting a few helpers, Toasty Treat, Kelly, to be with us at the booth. And they both are like experienced Plotter and Traveler's Company users. So I'm excited to have some fun time over there at the D.C. pen show. Because I've never been to that one. And I heard it's one of the biggest. And to be honest, I'm a little intimidated. But I know everyone's going to take care of me.

'''Brad:''' So I look forward to it. So it's like that's a yes on both accounts. Yes, it can be imitating. Yes, you will be taken care of. So, yeah, it'll be fun. It'll certainly be fun. So, yeah. Awesome. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing you in person out in San Francisco. And I know everyone in D.C. will love checking out the goods. So are you doing. So you work for the broader design fill company. So are you working on Traveler's products as well as Plotter now?

'''April:''' That's right. Last year, we launched the special U.S. limited edition Let's Go on a Road Trip refills for Traveler's Company. And they're like these letterpress regular inserts and passport size inserts. And they're my babies. And I love them so much. I used up like two already. And I'm like working on my third one. But Traveler's Company this year had a special limited sets. I don't know if you've seen them. The 2022 limited sets that came out with four designs, four boxed sets featuring Traveler's Hotel, Traveler's Train, Traveler's Plane, Traveler's Airlines, sorry, and Traveler's Records. And I think it's so cool that they really expanded the universe of Traveler's Company, specifically during the pandemic, because they know how hard it is for people to not have that travel experience that you associate with Traveler's Notebook.

'''Brad:''' Right.

'''April:''' But also encouraging people to experience it through their own imagination, through their daily life. You know, you don't have to travel to faraway places for your experiences to be significant. It could be like any little encounters during your day. And then you envision it. And then you would be at Traveler's Hotel. You would be flying it with Traveler's Airline. You'd be listening from stuff from Traveler's Records and taking the Traveler's Train. So I love the series so much. And when it launched in April, I was overwhelmed with the reception as well. Like all the retailers that we have in the U.S. Sold out like the day off or the second day off. And it's been amazing.

'''Brad:''' Well, one of these years, I need to meet whoever writes about music for Travelers, especially like the Traveler's Diary online. They have exquisite music tastes that line up very well with mine.

'''April:''' Mr. Ijima-san. Yes. If only he could come too. I think he couldn't make it to the pen show this year because he has other events as well. But he's the mastermind. He's the executive director of Traveler's Company. And the things that comes out of his head, oh my goodness, for these past years.

'''Brad:''' I'm fascinated. It's just amazing. I look at this like, are you talking directly to me?

'''Speaker 02:''' Nice. I'm glad it relates.

'''Brad:''' It's pretty great. It's pretty great. It's pretty great. All right. So we've talked about Plotter and Traveler's. I want to get back to talking about some of the stuff that you're into. And I'm going to put you on the spot here, maybe for the rest of the show. And I'm going to make you choose. I'm going to make you choose some things. I know your answer is going to be all of them. But I'm going to make you choose your favorite journal. If you're leaving tomorrow to go to the DC Pen Show and you're working, you've got all the Plotter stuff. You've got all the Traveler stuff. But your personal stuff, what's the one notebook or journal or planner that you are 100% bringing and then everything else has to stay behind?

'''April:''' It has to be the, I guess, the Traveler's notebook. I usually don't take my Hobonichi on trips because it's bulky and heavy and adds unnecessary weight, especially if it's like Pen shows. And I was recently on a trip to Taiwan and I had to make that same hard decision. Like, I'm going to be in Taiwan for a month and a half. What notebook do I take with me to document my days there? And Traveler's notebook won out. My Olive edition, a very special edition that's not being produced anymore, Traveler's notebook.

'''Brad:''' Don't email April for it. I'm not selling it ever.

'''April:''' So that and like I said, the limited edition refills that I've just been going through. It's got an awesome letterpress cover and dot grid MD cream insert. So it's just super useful. So I'll definitely be bringing that to the pen show. I mean, you guys can even probably buy it, the pen show, the inserts, but not the Olive cover.

'''Brad:''' Don't leave it laying on the table.

'''Speaker 02:''' Oh my goodness. No, no. I'm going to lock it like under my arms the whole time.

'''Brad:''' I used to do that with Knock. I would bring like my favorite pen case just to have like some of my pens in there. And it would be a color that we did like three years ago that no one could get. And I would leave it on the table. Yeah. They'd be like, I want that one. I'm like, oh, that was a mistake. Yeah. So I learned. It took me like a year or two to learn. I was like, I can't leave that stuff out on the table. I just get myself in trouble. All right. So what we haven't. I don't know that we've mentioned a single pen or writing implement this entire show, which goes to show how much you believe in the journals first and everything.

'''April:''' I'm a pen nerd too.

'''Brad:''' I know you are. I know you are. So what are your favorites? I won't make you pick a single favorite because that's way too broad of a category. What do you like to write with like in your travelers or like do you use fountain pens only in your Hobonichi or use anything? So tell me a little bit about your favorite pens.

'''April:''' I don't discriminate except I don't use ballpoints. So anything else is ghosts. And so I love my fountain pens and I did pick one before I head off the show. And it's this gorgeous green appress ski from the Sailor Cocktail Series. Oh, yeah. A full size pro gear and in an M nib. And it's my current favorite for the past two months already since I inherited it secondhand from another friend in the community.

'''Brad:''' Oh, that's a great pen.

'''April:''' I love it so much. And it turned me off pro gear slims and I'm fully on the full size pro gear train now.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. I mean, I think that's the correct decision. I like the small 1911s, but I need the full size pro gear. Right. Like that's kind of my if I'm going to have a small one, I like the 1911s, but the pro gear, I need the full. So, yeah, I'm with you on that. What are you what are you inking it up with? Have you used the same ink or do you like to mix it up? You know, I mix it up.

'''April:''' I do have a lot of green inks. Green is one of my favorite colors. If people in the community knows about it. But currently it's got I think it's one of the greens from the Toh no, Kyo no Oto ink.

'''Brad:''' Okay.

'''April:''' That really vibrant green called. Oh, shoot. It's escaping me. The. I forgot. That's fine.

'''Brad:''' I can. We'll look it up and put it put it in the notes afterwards. Everyone knows.

'''April:''' It's similar to the Wagaiisu of the sailor. You know, that very like bright grass green. People are going to yell at me.

'''Brad:''' No, because I'm sitting here wracking my brain because I only have like kind of the mossy Kyo no Oto one. And I can't so I can't even think of the names.

'''April:''' No, no, no. This is one of the brighter green ones similar to that cannery yellow green. And it's it looks so good in my upper ski right now.

'''Brad:''' What type of what type of nibs do you like in your in your fountain pens? Do you like the fine ones or do you like a broader?

'''April:''' A broader nib. I'm a M nib or nothing person. Oh, that's right. You said that earlier. I used when I first started acquiring expensive fountain pens to me. Expensive is like a sailor pro gear, you know, like. Yeah, they're 200 to 400 dollars.

'''Brad:''' Absolutely.

'''April:''' And for a while they used to only have them available in like MF nibs, which is like a little bit lower between the F and the M. And I didn't like them as much. And then since then, I've been tuning all of my MF nib pens to an M nib. Like I just love that ink blow experience. Like fine is great for Chinese writing because we have a lot of strokes in the character. So I started out with fine. But now that I'm like fully writing English on a daily basis, I just love the broad nibs. And I recently got one of my pens to be ground to an architect. So I guess that's another rabbit hole.

'''Brad:''' That is. That is. I was just thinking to myself, when I go to San Francisco, I'm going to have so much nib work I want done. I've been busy buying pens and now I'm trying to refine the pens that I have. So I want to take the ones that I enjoy the most and make them the best writing experience I can. So, yeah, that's what I'm working on myself. So I'm getting getting those nibs tweaked. So, yeah, that is a complete rabbit hole.

'''Speaker 02:''' I'm scared now. I'm in too many holes. I can't like open another one.

'''Brad:''' Well, then tell me about this one because I think this could actually be opening a pretty big rabbit hole. Anything that goes in your notebook that's not a writing instrument. So accessories, tapes, stickers. Like do you have favorite things you always have handy? Do you have a kit you keep at your desk that is all of the accessory type stuff for your planners and notebooks?

'''April:''' I'm laughing because I have multiple kits of different categories of stuff. I literally have a tin case of washi tape with like 30 washi tapes in front of me. And then those five-tier Muji clear acrylic case filled with rubber stamps. And then like I on the left side of me are five like sticker sheet organizers from Michael's all filled. So it's hard to pick. No.

'''April:''' Stickers. I guess stickers. I love stickers so much. And they're cheap to acquire. And, you know, it's always like, oh, it's just like $2. I can get some and then suddenly you're checking out with like a $60 card on cute things from Japan. So listeners, you will relate.

'''Brad:''' Oh, I'm laughing because I completely relate. And I'm laughing because our listeners are going, oh, yeah, she is. That is exactly right. That is exactly right. Yeah. Changing the subject, you made me think of this and you mentioned it before about your trip to Taiwan. Did you pack an extra suitcase just for the return trip? Or was it or did you not go too busy to really go deep into the stationary?

'''Speaker 02:''' Are you kidding me?

'''April:''' I came back with like three suitcases full of stationary and two extra boxes, each seven pounds each that have to ship back separately. Oh, my God.

'''Brad:''' I went ham. You're my new best friend.

'''April:''' I went ham on this trip. And it's sad because I can't even say that I was deprived of stationary in the past two years because I never stopped buying. But I went back to Taiwan this time. The last time I was back was 2018. And so it's been a while. And the stationary scene in Taiwan is like insane and like peak right now. And I couldn't hold back. You know how like you went on that trip to New York and Toronto and you had like a day where you just like went to three to four stationary stores? So I had several days of that. And then like one specific day where I went to 12 stationary stores in Taichung from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. My friend had a car and we were just like treasure map hunting. Like stop here. Get in the car. Get off the cars. Go in here.

'''Speaker 02:''' Came out to the next stationary store. And it was the best experience of my life.

'''Brad:''' That's amazing. So here's a business idea for anyone out there is stationary tour vacations. And me and April and I will be your trial. Your trial.

'''April:''' A guide. We hold zero responsibilities for your wallet. You have to sign a disclaimer before you sign up to the tour.

'''Brad:''' So just just randomly being able to hit up 12 stores in a day in Taiwan. The fact that that's actually doable to a lot of us like that mentality likes, you know, someone like myself in the U.S. in the middle of nowhere. Like that's not an option. If I got in my car and I drove three hours in any direction right now, I would not hit a stationary store. Not even a staples? I would. No, I would hit a. Yeah, I would hit an office supply store. But just that level of access in the Asian market is just unparalleled, right?

'''April:''' A lot of people said Japan is the place to go. But I feel like your wallet is in a bigger risk if you're in Taiwan. Because Japan has like a lot of stationary everywhere. But they are pricier, in my opinion, like the stuff. And in Taiwan, you not only have the Japan stuff because it's closed for export and import. And then you also have the Taiwanese stuff. And then you also have the bookstores. And you also have the chains and the independent creators and the flea markets that happens like every weekend, like in multiple spots. It's very scary to live in a stationary attic in Taiwan.

'''Brad:''' I would need a month and a half just to be able to like keep my sanity and then still probably not to be enough.

'''April:''' I didn't even hit up all the fountain pen places. Like I found out about several fountain places that were literally a 10-minute walk from my home, like on the last two days. And I was like, I can't go in there. I can't.

'''Speaker 02:''' Like it's too scary.

'''Brad:''' Well, that's awesome. I'm glad we got to talk about that a little bit. So let's wrap it up on this. What's next for you? What's next for the Penguin's creative side of, you know, what you're doing? You know, you've got the Stationery Cafe podcast. You're streaming on Twitch. You're all over YouTube and Instagram. What are you enjoying? And what's coming up on all of your channels? Which we'll have linked in the show notes for everyone to go check out.



== Future Projects ==


'''April:''' Well, I'd say like 2020 was the year of starting the podcast, the Stationery Cafe podcast. And I think I talked about it in the Friends of the Pen Show episode. It's really due to you that I really got to want to create a podcast. Because like I exclusively listened to you guys like for three years. And it's like I want more, like M-O-A-R more. So I started a podcast in 2020 and then got a spinoff Discord on it in 2021 where we have this community of people who just like listens to the podcast and then talks about the stuff. And then we kind of all branched towards Twitch. You know, we were all streaming Stationery now. We actually got the Stationery tags available on Twitch for us, which is a big deal. You can, if you search journaling or like planning or stationery or writing, you'll find us. And this year, I really like just really head-steep in like working with Design for America and really bringing about a lot more new projects, I think. So I feel like I'm super busy this year because I'm both balancing the Stationery Cafe podcast. I had to dial down the frequency because we were doing two episodes a week.

'''Brad:''' You're very prolific.

'''April:''' With the happy hour and like my guest interviews. So I'm like slowing down on there, really focusing more on our Patreon page for the Stationery Cafe for people to support me and Kelly that way, who's my co-host for the happy hour. Working mostly with Design for America to bring more cool things for Traverse Company and Plotter. I don't know what's next. I feel like there's going to be a new stationery to sweep me away or new things for me to focus on. But I'm just going to take whatever come at me and just kind of go with the flow, I guess.

'''Brad:''' If there's anyone that can handle it, it's you. You're an inspiration. I'm a super fan. I really, really think you're doing just a fantastic job. And it's just so great to see your fingerprint over everything in this stationery community. I think it's fantastic. And I really, really appreciate you taking the time to come on. Because, I mean, you just listed off how busy you are. And you made time to come on here and spend an hour with me chatting about how many notebooks you have using at one time.

'''April:''' No, this is pure hour of joy right now. Just being able to talk about stationery with the podcast I admire the most. This is an amazing experience I cannot turn down.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, we could just have another recorded conversation for the next two hours. Just talking about random stuff. And me not trying to do a show. Just us talking about stationery.

'''April:''' Maybe we can do that during the pen show. Who knows? The San Francisco pen show.

'''Brad:''' I think that has to be a plan. That has to be a plan.

'''April:''' Yeah.

'''Brad:''' All right, April. I will have all of the links in the show notes. Anything you want to plug outside of everything you already mentioned and already do?

'''April:''' No, I think you covered everything.

'''Brad:''' All right. Well, we got it. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you all of our listeners for listening. Again, you'll find the links to everywhere that Penguin's Creative is and all of April's work and everything Plotter and Travelers and Design fill in the show notes. Until next week, say goodbye, April.

'''April:''' Goodbye. Bye. J

[[Category:Podcast Transcripts]]
[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]