Editing The Pen Addict 477/transcript

{{Infobox podcast transcript
| name            = The Pen Addict
| number          = 477
| title           = This Notebook Has Rules
| date            = September 1st, 2021
| hosts           = [[Brad Dowdy]]<br>
[[Myke Hurley]]
| guests          = 
| link            = [https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/477 Episode 477]
| audiolink       = [https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/thepenaddict/The_Pen_Addict_477.mp3 Audio Episode 477]
| length          = 68
}}

'''Myke:''' From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 477. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace and Ooni Pizza Ovens. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad. 

'''Brad:''' Hey Myke, how's it going? 

'''Myke:''' Very good, my friend. How are you?

'''Brad:''' I'm very good as well. Like, I'm down with signing off for very good.

'''Myke:''' That's excellent. It's September now. We're into September. September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. So here at RelayFM, we are turning our attention to raise money for the wonderful people over at St. Jude's. The third consecutive year in which we are supporting the life-saving mission of St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital. That mission is very simple, one I think we can all sign on for. Finding Cures, Saving Children. Because cancer kills more children under the age of 14 than any other disease. Doctors from all 50 states of the US and around the world refer their patients to St. Jude because they have the world's best survival rates for some of the most aggressive childhood cancers. St. Jude also provides thousands of free consultations for doctors treating children worldwide, including kids in your community. So this September, you can join RelayFM's efforts to raise the funds and awareness needed to treat and defeat childhood cancer. You can donate today at stjude.org slash Relay. Let's cure childhood cancer together. Now, Brad, as well as this incredible thing, right, we are obviously going ahead again and you are putting together something truly amazing for pen addict listeners who donate to St. Jude. So starting from now, September 1st until September 21st, we are doing a pen addict St. Jude raffle. So when you make a donation, you will be able to be entered by emailing your donation receipt to stjude at penaddict.com. It's an email address, stjude at penaddict.com. Every $10 donated gets you one raffle ticket. You can get unlimited tickets, unlimited entries. You can pledge as much money as you want and every $10 will be converted to one ticket. So if you put in $100, that's 10 tickets. $1,000, that's 100 tickets. And obviously, the more tickets you have, the more likely you are to win some of the absolutely incredible prizes. Just FYI, I might not be using the correct legal language here, but we're all friends. You know what I'm talking about. All right.

'''Brad:''' I worry about that. I don't have any like legalities on this. So we're all buds here. Let's be nice. And we're raising money for childhood cancer.

'''Myke:''' So like just, you know, get off our backs.

'''Brad:''' I worry about that too. But I'm like, come on, it's for the kids. And like, I'm just going to have to do whatever we have to do.

'''Myke:''' The great people over at St. Jude haven't told us to stop doing it yet.

'''Brad:''' So don't stop making me give away cool stuff. So you want to know what we have so far for the kids, Myke?



== Prizes for St. Jude Fundraising ==


'''Myke:''' Yeah. So last year, we kind of did one prize, right? Yeah. It was the custom Lamy Safari from the wonderful Jonathan Brooks. This year, our incredible community of makers and friends. Yeah. We're having to beat them off of a stick. Yes. Wanted to give us stuff.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Yeah. So I've had this field notes collection that I've wanted to use for something good for quite a while. We've talked about it for years. So now's the time for me to donate my field notes collection. And this is the grand prize. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Releases one through 42 from Butcher Orange to Butcher Blue to Grass Stain all the way up to issue 42. Like you could, they're up to 51 now. You can pick up any, if you want to like really flesh out your collection, you can get all that stuff like for cover price. But this is the old rare stuff, giving them, you know, as a prize to raise money for the kids. Like that's what I wanted to use this for. And I've been holding off on doing it until it was the right time. Now it's the right time.

'''Myke:''' And I'm going to reiterate all of this for you to really land, I think, the magnitude of this prize. Because one person will win the first 42 editions of Field Notes. A sealed three pack of every single one of the first 42. Some of these are just not available. You may be, as the winner of this, the only person with a few of these editions in a sealed three pack, for all I know. Because some of them are that difficult to find. They do not exist anywhere else.

'''Brad:''' I'm sure I'm not the only person with this collection, but this is one of the few collections. This is certainly the only one that you can acquire and without having to pay like through the next.

'''Myke:''' This would be an incredible amount of money to buy. Obviously, we recommend that whoever wins this doesn't try to flip them, you know. But like you do you. It's your gift. It's your prize, I should say.

'''Brad:''' I want money for the kids. You do whatever you want. Fair enough. So, once I mentioned that we were doing this, of course, our wonderful friends in the community started reaching out to donate more prizes for this raffle. Including Jonathan Brooks, once again, is donating. I almost don't know how to explain this, but we're going to call it a Carolina Pen Co. Plus Spoke Pen Pen Pen. So, what this is, is the Spoke Pen Icon, which is the fountain pen. And Jonathan engineered and built an acrylic eyedropper insert for the icon.

'''Myke:''' I want this one.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. So, I'll have pictures of this. So, it's basically a sleeve designed to fit into the Spoke Pen Icon that you can eyedropper. So, that's going to be a giveaway item. So, Jonathan made that special just for this giveaway. I have also a Canalea Pen Co. Kona Cherry, the Myke 2021 Pen of the Year, voted by Pen World readers, I believe that is correct. The Kona Cherry, also one of my personal favorites, courtesy of our friends at Canalea Pen Co. I also have a Kasama Tala in Ultum, which is another personal favorite pen of mine from the wonderful Mark Bacchus, a.k.a. the Nib Griner. And he is kindly donating not just that, but any nib grind you want. A nib grind of choice on that nib that's in the Kasama Tala. Again, I'll have links and pictures when I post this. More details on that in a minute. And, speaking of Ultum, I have a Shone Design Ultum via our good buddy Ian Shone. I think that has a fine steel nib in it. So, this is a really awesome pen that Ian has kindly provided for a giveaway here.

'''Myke:''' It's worth noting, these are all individual prizes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, each one of those pens will be awarded to separate individuals. It's not like one big grand prize.

'''Brad:''' Correct, correct. So, we're going to have a bunch of winners. And we might have more. I'm not telling anyone they can't donate a prize to this between now and September 21st. If someone comes up with September 20th, hey, let's include this. It's going on the page. So, the page will be live on the Pen Addict blog on Thursday. It was when I'm going to actually officially, you know, have everything written up. Have all the pictures. Have all the details and specs of all the products we have so far. Have all the details in case, you know, you didn't quite follow us today. But you're welcome to go ahead, starting today, donate to St. Jude. So, you know, email your receipt to stjudetpenannic.com. And for every $10 you donate, you get one raffle ticket. And we'll be raffling off all of these prizes to individual winners after the closing of this raffle, which is September 21st. So, you know, that's what we have right now. I'm expecting we'll have more. I have irons in the fire trying to get some more items. And I'm sure once this goes live to where I have someone to link it, someone can link to it, we'll hopefully start getting a few more things in. So, I appreciate everyone's support. And I am excited to see what we can do this year, Myke. Me too. So, I checked last year. The Pen Addict was responsible for a little over $11,000. And it was just awesome. So, I have to beat that this year.

'''Myke:''' When we were preparing for our campaign this year with Allsac, which is the fundraising arm of St. Jude, that's the name of it. It's like two separate companies in one, which I'm sure there's a million legal reasons why that has to be the case. But Allsac's entire purpose is to raise money for St. Jude. They specifically mentioned this as one of the important parts of the campaign. The Pen Addict part. The Pen Addict part. Because it raised a lot of money. And so, we would like, you know, this is a podcast focused solely around commercialism.

'''Myke:''' Right? Like, that's what we talk about. Buying things. So, please give a little bit of money, whatever you can, to St. Jude. So, I'll talk you through one last time the way that you go about this. Go to stjude.org slash relay. You make a donation. You'll get sent an email receipt. Forward that email receipt to stjude at penaddict.com. And that will enter you in. Every $10 that you pledge to St. Jude will be one raffle ticket.

'''Brad:''' Yep. Yep. So, last year, I took all the entries. For every $10, you got a line on a spreadsheet. And then, we went over to random.org and picked random numbers. Told it to pick a number between this range. And that's how we did it. So, we'll do it the same way this time.

'''Myke:''' Maybe, Brad, if you were up for it, me and you could get on stream together and do a big grand prize drawing.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. I think we can figure that out. I think we can make that happen. That'd be fun. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.



== Montblanc Ink Controversy ==


'''Brad:''' Let's talk about something fun, Myke. Is this fun? I think you're dreading this topic. I am ready to have fun with it.

'''Myke:''' I've read it. I've looked through the stuff. And I'm not convinced of how this is going to be a fun conversation. So, maybe you can call me around.

'''Brad:''' Hashtag Montblancgate, Myke. Hashtag Montblancgate. That's not my name. This is from the Fountain Pen Memes Instagram page, which is actually how I first found out about the fact. And I say that fact that Montblanc is duplicating, exactly duplicating, limited edition inks from years prior to years current. Facts. Because Montblanc is apparently not smart enough to remove stickers from old inks. Okay, that's great. To new inks. They're literally morons.

'''Brad:''' That is so good.

'''Myke:''' That's my favorite part of this.

'''Brad:''' How can that not be fun, Myke? So, what's happening here? So, this is not new in our world. But I want to talk about it because Montblanc is a huge company. And let's just... I'm going to cut to the chase. This shocks me 0%. We're going to talk about that more as we get to the end of this. But other companies in our space, Lamy, Deatramentus, Sailor, have all made a limited edition ink or made an ink, took it away, and at some point years down the line brought it back as something different. And called it something different. Well, Montblanc... I don't want to say they're different. But they're different in the fact that they really lean on these limited edition releases. Like, that's one of their big marketing pushes. Like, every month or every two months is, hey, we made this ink with, like, this particular one, James Dean. You know, they have all these, you know, historical characters that they're pushing these inks on. And then they'll have just separate limited edition colors, say, Petrol Blue, just pop up multiple times during the year. And now, once they just... Once, you know, someone discovered this, and like I said, I found it on Fountain Pen memes, and they're doing a good job of tracking it all. People went back and started looking at bottles and are finding stickers on other bottles. Like, the Around the World in 80 Days Blue is the same ink as the Petrol Blue.

'''Myke:''' So, like, basically, the sticker on the bottom just says Petrol Blue or whatever, right?

'''Brad:''' Yes. It's amazing. I love this so much. Look, it's dirty, right? Like, Montblanc is doing us dirty. And that, I mean that from a hobbyist perspective. I mean you and me and the people listening to this show. This is not cool for us. Like, we spend our time and our money and want to enjoy these experiences. And some people really like their limited edition inks, and they're getting screwed on this deal, right? They're getting jobbed. Let me also say this. Montblanc could not care less.

'''Myke:''' Why would they?

'''Brad:''' They could not care less what you and I think about them duplicating these inks because they're shipping these inks off to their boutiques and selling James Dean's face on the cover of the box. And it's a red that they used three years ago.

'''Myke:''' Are they pairing these inks with pens or is it just inks?

'''Brad:''' I mean they do inks with pens. Like when they did the Beatles, right? That had a purple Beatles ink. And they've done some like Miles Davis inks and pens. And they do some combos. But I don't know. Like the full list of duplicated inks. Right. So a lot of their inks are just like one-offs. Which, you know, by one-off I mean like every month or every other month they're doing, you know, some special ink and putting some special logo and things on it. Like this is on purpose, right? Like this is just Montblanc. This is how they are doing business. From our perspective, it's wrong. And I hate everything about it. But from Montblanc's perspective, they just do not care. I promise you they do not care. Even fountain pen memes, like they have a thing from Montblanc PR, like ask them, hey, are these inks duplicated? And they're like, yeah, these inks are totally duplicated. Like they do not care. Let me see if I can find it real quick.

'''Brad:''' Hi, this is the reply from Montblanc PR. Hi, as a matter of fact, you were absolutely correct in your assumption.

'''Brad:''' Like this isn't an issue for them.

'''Myke:''' Why would they? But like, why would they?

'''Brad:''' So here's my point. And this goes back to a long ago conversation about Sailor Apricot, where I fell in love with the Sailor Apricot ink. And it went away. So I tried to find a couple of extra bottles, right?

'''Brad:''' And, you know, I found my bottles. And then a few years later, they come back with either Sailor Ken Makuse, and then later Sailor Apricot. These companies are always recycling this stuff. What's limited at one time and goes away doesn't mean it's not going to be reintroduced at a later date. So don't get caught up in limited edition ink hype. Don't get caught up in a lot of limited edition hype, period, because these companies are not inventive enough to continually come out with new products. In Montblanc's case, they just don't care. In Sailor's case, I don't know, you know, if they just thought, well, maybe that was so popular, maybe we made a mistake and shouldn't have discontinued it. Let's put it back, like, with Grenade and, you know, and all these other inks that they, this is not the only ink that they've done it with. So, and, like, Diatramenis just flat out makes a standard color. Let's call it dark blue. And then makes a line up of famous people inks and literally uses all the stock inks and just puts a different label on it. Like, it's just what, it's annoying. It's frustrating from a hobby perspective.

'''Brad:''' Don't get caught up in it from a consumer perspective because this is bound to happen again and again and again. You know, Lamy Turquoise and Lamy whatever they decided to call the remake of it Pacific Blue. I can't even remember what they did. And it's the exact same color. It's going to happen over and over again. So, just be careful with limited edition inks. Like, there's no reason for them to just not get out the formula, run it through again, and call it something else and slap a different label on it. So, I find it especially funny that it's Mont Blanc, but I'm 0% surprised and they will 100% do it again.

'''Myke:''' I mean, this is one of those things where we're trying to, also maybe some people are, I mean, I don't know if anyone's really mad about this, but prescribing the small maker ideals onto a massive multinational corporation.

'''Brad:''' Right. Like, I mean, the people that are mad who are recently, if they recently paid a premium for an out-of-production ink and turn over the ink bottle on a new ink and find it to have the same label and it's at the regular price. Yeah. Our friends over at the Tentarius podcast, I don't know if I said that right. I'm sorry, Jeffrey and Eric. They have, the title of their podcast this week is Escandalo de Rojo. Oh, I love it. So, definitely go check that out. And I think it's great. So, they covered that over on the podcast this week. I wanted to go give them a special shout out.

'''Brad:''' The awesome Spanish language speaking stationary podcast, which is, it makes me smile from ear to ear every time I say that and think about their show. Love them so much. So, yeah, it's a, it's a, I'm glad this is on the fountain pen memes Instagram because I, I do find the humor in this, even though if I was someone that was in the rare limited edition Montblanc ink business, I wouldn't be so happy.

'''Myke:''' Tony has put this perfectly in the members discord. I'm so mad about this. I'm never going to buy a Montblanc pen again. Right?

'''Brad:''' Yeah, exactly. So, it's just Montblanc doing Montblanc things and they are not alone in this and just be careful. Like, there's no need to chase, like, there's certain limited edition things that are like, hey, cool, like, I'm good, like, I feel real happy about this. But if you're ever doing it from, like, a collectability and, like, a profit type of status, like, this is bound to happen.

'''Myke:''' And as Kate says, it's a nice, it's nice to know that if you really love a limited edition ink, it will probably be back at some point.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, it's facts.

'''Myke:''' That's what I said. My favorite lucky orange, which I think they might have done.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Once I realized that, once I realized I can always find something exactly the same, if not exactly the same, really darn close, I stopped chasing limited edition inks, like, right then. Like, I was like, oh, this is how it, this is how this industry works. Okay, I'm good with waiting.

'''Brad:''' So, there you go.



== Squarespace Promotion ==


'''Myke:''' All right, this week's episode is brought to you by friends over at Squarespace, the all-in-one platform to build your online presence and run your business. They've got everything from websites and online stores, marketing tools, analytics. Squarespace has got you covered in one, just all in one place. With Squarespace, they combine cutting-edge design with world-class engineering, so it's more easy than ever for you to establish your home online and make your own ideas a reality. Whether you want to create a website because you've got that new big idea you want to share with the world, or maybe you have some art that you want to showcase, a portfolio design. Maybe you have some ideas that you want to get out, or a blog post. You have a business that you want to promote and give people contact information, stuff like that. Maybe you have an event coming up, a virtual event. Maybe you've got a small, like, in-person event, whatever it is. You can announce that and have all of the information that you need on Squarespace. And all of this stuff is so easy to do with their wonderful templates. They have templates that are created, professional, beautiful templates. They're really customizable with drag-and-drop tools. But a lot of them are purpose-made for you to get, like, an idea of how to actually create a business website. And it has all of the pages and stuff, and you just go in and edit with putting all of your own information. It's just really easy to help you. Like, when we were planning our wedding, we made a Squarespace website and used one of their wedding templates. And it helped us make sure that we had all of the information that people would expect. Like, because it had, like, a page structure and stuff. We could just go in and edit it. This is so easy, so helpful for us. You can customize the look and feel, the products you have on sale if you want to store, the settings and everything with just a few clicks. Everything's optimized for mobile as well, so it's going to look great everywhere. You also get free unlimited hosting, top-of-the-line security, and dependable resources to help you succeed. There's nothing to patch, nothing to upgrade. They have award-winning 24-7 customer support. You can grab a domain name, take advantage of SEO and email marketing tools. It's so awesome. Go to squarespace.com slash penaddict for a free trial today with no credit card required. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code penaddict to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That is squarespace.com slash penaddict. And then when you sign up, use the offer code penaddict, and you'll get 10% off your first purchase to show your support for the show. Our thanks to Squarespace for the continued support of this show and RelayFM.

'''Brad:''' Real quick on Squarespace. They're making a change that impacts me. Not so much you, but it's a good change. It's an improvement by taking things away. They're removing their commerce app and rolling it up into the Squarespace platform app.

'''Myke:''' The Squarespace app, like the standalone Squarespace app is so good now.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Like I use both of those all the time, and I'm happy now that I'm going to be able to use them in one place. So I understand why they did that way in the beginning, but it's the right move to consolidate those. And I use the commerce app a lot just to move, because both Noc and Penaddict have Squarespace shops. So I'm in there pretty frequently. So yeah, that makes me happy. All right, Myke. Big topic today. I want to talk about Plotter. You may have seen this on Instagram. I don't even know if we've talked about it much behind the scenes. This is a product out of Japan. You can go to the existing website, plotter-japan.com. We'll have these links in the show notes. But I have had one for the past month plus from Plotter USA. So what's going on here is this is a product that's existed in Japan. I want to say over the last five years. Don't quote me on that, but it's just that ballpark. It's not like a 30-year-old product. It's not like a brand-new product. It's been around for several years in Japan. And they're bringing it to the USA. So what is Plotter? It's a notebook system is kind of the best way I can describe it. It's made to be a little bit modular, a little bit build-your-own, a little bit custom.

'''Myke:''' It's a bit William Hanna-y.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, yeah. We're going to talk about that a lot. I'm getting asked a lot for that comparison. Hey, what's the comparison between the Plotter and the William Hanna that you love so much? So this is like a planner slash organizer. It kind of leans towards the creative side, I guess. You know, that's what I get from their marketing, their website designs. The ideas that they are putting out for it and building this notebook for you. So I've been under an embargo. Let's get the disclaimer out from the beginning. I've been part of a pilot program in the US for Plotter USA. They provided me with a plotter, a bunch of inserts and accessories, all for free in return for my feedback. And this, I've never been in such an extensive pilot program before that was run so well. Like, they did just an exquisite job. They've done things that I've never had any stationary company do. Like, I've had these quizzes, like, not quizzes, but basically these forms to fill out. Like, I've had check-in points at certain dates. Okay. You know, after one week, what do you think about this, this, and that? Okay. Now, after three weeks, what do you think about this, this, and that? How do you see, you know, tell me your thoughts. Tell me how you feel about it. I've had one phone interview. I'm going to have a second phone interview after this. Like, they've done... And I appreciate every single part of that. Like, they've done a good job. So, that's the disclaimer. I also know one of the people on the Plotter team, personally.

'''Brad:''' And so, like, yeah, I want you to have these disclaimers that I got this product for free. I also know someone on the team. And I have the product in my hand. I've been using it for the last month. So, now that I'm able to talk about it, they launched at the San Francisco Pen Show this past weekend. So, it's free for me to talk about it now. So, that was the cutoff date for the embargo. So, people want to know my thoughts on the notebook, on the system, on everything about it. So, we're going to go through that today. You think we have time to cover this, Myke?

'''Myke:''' I don't know because I haven't used this stuff.

'''Brad:''' So, right? So, I spent my morning before the show. So, I put in the show notes, Plotter, and just, like, the general things we're going to talk about. Then I went to my Plotter and I wrote over two A5 pages worth of notes to discuss. But, basically, I'm going to break it down. Plotter has not asked me to do this, by the way. I'm doing this on my own. I don't have to do this. I can choose to do whatever I want with this product. So, I don't have to talk about it today. But I'm choosing to because I think it's cool. So, the base of the Plotter, Myke, is the exterior cover, right? So, that's what they're leaning on this. They're basically calling it the leather binder. It's the exterior leather that has a six-ring internal system. So, it's like the little clasps, you know, that you just pop open and close shut. And they're backed on this brass bar that's the exterior of the Plotter. Like, that's the signature visual for the Plotter, right? Like, a lot of these brands have the signature external visual that you know the product on site. Like, a lot of people know what a traveler's notebook looks like on site.

'''Brad:''' That's this binder system. So, the internals, you know, there's a bunch of leather types you can get for the exterior. We're going to talk about – I'm going to elaborate on all this stuff later. The biggest size right now, Myke, is A5. That's what I have. And then there's several smaller sizes on with different leather materials as well. There's like five different leather types and five different sizes, but not everything. Every size is available in every leather cover yet. The inserts is the meat and potatoes of the system. There's a ton of different ones. They all come pre-punched. There's the memo pad, which is just your blank pages, your grid pages, or your lined pages. You know, you just – you basically buy a pack of leather – a pack of leather inserts. A pack of paper inserts. That would be – that's a different podcast, Myke. Oh, bro. A pack of paper inserts, and you can insert them into the system as you wish. There's also a to-do list. There's like a heavy-duty drawing paper. There are dot grid pages that are A4 sized that fold into the correct, say, A5 size in my notebook.

'''Myke:''' Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. You stop there for a second. Yeah.

'''Brad:''' I want to make sure I get that. It's like a – It's like a fold-out page? Yeah, like say like an accordion page, but just like three folds, right, to get it into the right size. Wow. Okay. And you can get that in dot or isometric.

'''Myke:''' How many of those do you get, though?

'''Brad:''' So they vary. So the standard memo pads, so like your basic page, 80 pages in the pack. The drawing paper, since it's a thicker paper, it's 30 sheets in the pack. And the pull-out A4 pages, the folded pages, I think are 40 in a pack.

'''Myke:''' I don't think I see those on the Japanese website.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, so there is a – it took me a while, Myke, to find the shop link to this. So I will put that in the show notes. Actually, I'm going to go ahead and tell it to you so I don't have to put it in there. If you go to plotter-japan.net, that is the shop. That's actually the best link to kind of look at all this stuff. Yeah. It took me a while. It's not even linked on the .com site.

'''Myke:''' I don't know, man.

'''Brad:''' I don't know. I'll explain. I won't totally explain why, but there is some commentary I have about provenance as we go. So then they also have diary refills, right? They have calendar refills, week-per-page planner refills. You know the planner style, the planner format that I used to use where you would have the seven days on a single page, right? And just a horizontal block. So that's all the inserts that they have for paper. Then you have your accessories.

'''Myke:''' This is wild, the way they deal with this – the way the A4 folds. Yes. So now you can see it on that page. What is the thinking of this, though? I would not like it.



== Plotter Binder System Introduction ==


'''Brad:''' I would not like it.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, like I can't – it's interesting, but I can't work out –

'''Brad:''' Okay. I'm going to help you out here. All right. The overarching – this is my marketing of the plotter. This is not their marketing or PR on the page or anything. The overarching idea you should think about when you're looking at this product is this is for creative professionals.

'''Myke:''' I mean, I'm a creative professional. This doesn't help me.

'''Brad:''' It doesn't, but there's other types. You know, maybe, you know, you need these bigger pages to express the needs that you have to the other people in your office.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, but then I just would wonder – I'm getting in the weeds, but of course we are. Why would you then just have an A4 pad instead?

'''Brad:''' I wonder if they eventually will because this setup could handle an A4, although they would have to add more. They would have to – it would have to be bigger than a six-ring binder, obviously. But, yeah, I'm actually surprised one of the leather sizes didn't have an A4 insert, and I wouldn't be surprised.

'''Myke:''' It's just because, like, I like this idea, but especially with having the way they do in these, like, two folds, so, like, it doesn't fold in half. You fold, like, in – let's just say thirds. It's not thirds, but that's the easiest way to think of it. Yes. You end up folding the thing in half, which will damage the paper. That seems strange to me.

'''Brad:''' You also don't have to buy this, right? No, I know, I know, I know, I know. I'm with you. I don't disagree with anything you said. I would not like that insert in my notebook because I would not use it. Like, that is a 1% or 2% usage situation where the standard memo pages are a 90% usage situation.

'''Myke:''' There are people who see this and they're like, well, that's exactly what I want. Like, that is for me, right? Like, I get that, right? Like, this stuff is very personal in use. But, yeah, this part, that part, like, it doesn't make sense to me completely.

'''Brad:''' It's kind of, I will agree, if it didn't exist, we're not going to miss it.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. Yeah. All right. That's fine. But we're getting in the weeds now because it's not important.

'''Brad:''' Well, I mean, it's going to continue in the weeds. I know, I know, I know. But, like, we're focusing too much on this one thing. Yeah. Yeah. Now we talk about accessories. So I have mine set up. I have two sets of memo pages. I have the two millimeter grid. And then I have the blank. And then I have the to-do list in the back.

'''Myke:''' And those are... Two millimeter grid?

'''Brad:''' It's so faint. It's great. It's great.

'''Myke:''' But that's so small.

'''Brad:''' What are you putting on a two millimeter grid? Nothing. I'm writing, like, every... I'm writing, like, it's a four millimeter grid.

'''Myke:''' Okay.

'''Brad:''' Which is still small. But that's how I write. So, like, I'm looking at the lines on my page. I write, like, in four millimeter blocks.

'''Myke:''' You see, all the Cortex products are in five millimeter dot grid, right? That's... I would consider that to be standard. It is pretty standard. And sometimes... That's why I did it. Because, like, I measured a bunch of stuff. And I want... Sometimes I think, is this five millimeter? It's too small. And they're all rocking two millimeter over there.

'''Brad:''' Two millimeter for some... Is a traditional Japanese format. It goes back to... Like, the old Kukuyo, the green cover sketch. Remember those that I sold with the Panatic stamping on them? Those are, like, the traditional engineering books. Like, the pocket... The original Field Notes pocket notebook hardcover two millimeter grid. Because it was basically... It was a literal field engineering notebook. Okay. So, it's just stuck in Japanese culture. The two millimeter grid's popular. So... All right. I have those divided by some of the many accessories that you can also get with your plotter. Myke. They have project manager... Management folders. Which is a really interesting design that they did here. I think it's not quite fully functional for what they're trying to do. I think that's, like, one of the things that I put on my notes that I would like to see changed. Is how they designed it. Like, the concept of adding a folder into a notebook like this is really good. I just don't think it's exactly how I would have done it.

'''Myke:''' Are they these little paper things? Yeah. I see them. Project manager. Okay.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. So, what it does... So, the reason why it's cool is because you can take out of your binding a grouping of papers and put them in these folders. Except you have to put the papers back through the binding in the envelope. I would want loose sheets in the envelopes.

'''Myke:''' So, they're dividers, but you have to... Yeah. I see what you're saying.

'''Brad:''' You have to reinsert them into the punch.

'''Myke:''' You have to, like, take the paper, put it inside the divider, and then reattach it. I get you. Yes. It's, like, weird that you have to, like, enclose the paper inside of the divider. Yes. Rather than just putting the divider in where you want it to be. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So... But I understand why they've done this, too, though. Yes. Because if you then wanted to take all of the things related to that project and put them in another folder, it's really easy to grab them all.

'''Brad:''' Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So, yes. That's, like, a little pro and con thing. They have a lot of, like, functional inserts. Like, one of the... They have a ruler insert, you know, where you just take it out and you can do different measurements. Again, think of this as a creative platform. Their main dividers are called lifters, I guess because you're lifting the pages, you know, between them. I have a lifter in between one section that has a pin loop on it, right? So I can slide a bit in a pin there and it's large enough to hold, like, a decent-sized pin. I have another lifter or divider that has a notebook loop that goes... It's, like, the band around the outside of the notebook. Like, both of those are very functional and very useful. They also have things like whiteboard pads where you could use it in a meeting and have whiteboard markers. Oh, my God. This is incredible.

'''Myke:''' It's incredible. I don't necessarily mean this in a good way. I do think this is really cool, but it's a lot. Like, I'm on their web. I found refill storage, clipboards. Like, they sell everything.

'''Brad:''' Oh, we're getting there, Myke. One of the weirdest things that I got that is actually, I'll be dang, this works, which I did not think this was going to work, Myke. I thought this was not ridiculous or dumb, but it's just confusing. They have a product called Leather Ring Supporter, Myke. And do you know what this is? I don't know if you'd be able to find it on the page quick enough. It goes on the front and back of... God, how do I describe this? It basically goes over the rings to protect the cover from the rings marking up the cover in the front and back of the notebook. And it actually works flawlessly. I can't believe it works. It does. I was like, I would never have bought that on my own. They sent it to me. I was like, what is this? This is dumb. I don't need this.

'''Myke:''' It's to stop the indentations that the ring binding would leave on the inside of the exposed leather.

'''Brad:''' It's genius. It's a little genius piece of leather. So, yeah. Then they have all the external. So, those are all like internal products. And they have all the external stuff, which you found. Storage boxes, sleeve cases. They have desk, random desk accessories. They have a lanyard ID case. They also have a pen and pencil, neither of which I have, which I'm okay with. They're these fully knurled barrels, like from tip to tail knurling. That's unnecessary. We don't need that. I don't think that's awesome. I think it's not bad. I'm sure it's perfectly fine. But, you know, it's just a standard tubular with a clip, pen barrels and pencil barrels. So, they look fine. I'm sure they're fine. All right. So, like that's kind of all the stuff that can go in it. So, I made a list of pros and cons because that's what really people want to know.

'''Myke:''' Let's take a break before you tell us. Okay.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Yeah. Because I feel like I don't know if we've done a good job. That was one page of notes. We definitely have not done a good job.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. I think this is definitely one of those ones where you might also want to, like, look at the links in the show notes and go through some of the products yourself because this does seem quite involved. Yeah.

'''Brad:''' Well, this next section, this will dial it in a little bit.

'''Myke:''' All right. All right. But let's take a break first. And thank Ooni Pizza Ovens for their support of this show. Ooni Pizza Ovens, they make the best pizzas in the world. They are the number one pizza oven company around because they're surprisingly small ovens that can be powered by your choice of either wood, charcoal, or gas. They're the number one pizza. They'll let you make restaurant-quality pizza in your own backyard. They're super easy to use and incredibly portable. They'll fit into any outside space and can reach temperatures of up to 900 degrees Fahrenheit, 500 degrees Celsius. This lets you cook restaurant-quality pizza in as little as 60 seconds. With that high temperature, it's what's going to set these apart from, like, a pizza you could cook in a regular oven. It just can't reach those temperatures. And those high temperatures is what makes the difference. They have a couple of really interesting models for you to check out. They have a whole range of products, but two of their coolest is the Ooni Coda 16. This is a gas-powered oven that can let you cook up to 16-inch pizzas. It has an L-shaped burner at the back, which is super innovative. It lets you get even heat distribution. And then also the Ooni Karu. This is multifueled, so you can choose wood, charcoal, or gas for that one. Their products start, the Ooni Pizza Ovens start at just $299, and you're going to get free shipping if you're in the U.S., the U.K., or the EU. They also have an app as well to help you perfect your dough recipe and give you tons of pizza-making tips. Listeners of this show can get 10% off their purchase of an Ooni Pizza Oven, which is up to $50 off an Ooni Coda 16. When you go to Ooni.com, that's O-O-N-I.com, and use the code PENADDICT0821 at checkout. They also have a great range of accessories from peels to cutters to oven tables. Brad, you are an Ooni Pizza Oven family. Can you tell our listeners why you love it?

'''Brad:''' Yeah, I love products that make me smile, and I don't mean that in a singular use case. I mean, like, literally every time I use it, you think, like, this shouldn't work. Oh, my gosh, this is amazing, and how fun is this? And that's what the Ooni gives to us. It's just, it's an event as far as it's always a fun thing to do with the family to make pizzas. Everyone gets to make their own. And then the speed and quality that it cooks with is just, you can't help but just be completely impressed and have fun with the Ooni Pizza Oven. It's a fantastic product.

'''Myke:''' Who doesn't want to make pizza at home? This is the perfect tool for the job. So go check it out right now. These things are always in high demand because of this exact reason and because they're so good. So don't miss out. Ooni Pizza Ovens are the best way to bring restaurant-quality pizza to your own backyard. Just go to Ooni.com, that's O-O-N-I.com, and use the code PENADDICT0821 to get 10% off. Thanks to Ooni Pizza Ovens for the support of this show.

'''Brad:''' All right, so back to the plotter, Myke. I want to give you my pros and cons, and hopefully this will maybe help you kind of put it all together a little bit. So on the pros list, I think the idea of what they're trying to accomplish is really good, right? The way it's designed, the amount of customization options, right? You can kind of build it for how you want it to be to best fit your needs personally. The paper is going to be a thing. Myke, this is an S-tier paper. If you're not familiar with like a Japanese ranking system, there's not a lot of things that get to the S-tier. That's what this paper is. It's going to be a problem in that it's so good, people are going to want this paper in everything.

'''Myke:''' Uh-oh.

'''Brad:''' So let me tell you a little bit about the paper or plotter in general. Plotter is not a standalone company. Their parent company is a company called Design Phil out of Japan. Design Phil is the parent company of Midori. It is the parent company of Traveler's Company. It is the parent company to several other brands. Plotter is part of this family. So this paper, they know if they're making Midori and they're making Traveler's, and those are already like well-loved and appreciated papers, like they have a good chance at making something pretty great for the plotter. I am told that this paper was made specifically for plotter, right? This isn't a reuse of a Midori paper or a reuse of a Traveler's paper. I would liken this paper to like a combination, like if the Midori MD paper and like the 68 GSM Tomoe River paper were combined, like it's that good of a quality paper, especially for fountain pens. It's very thin, right? Like a Tomoe River paper. It's a little bit off-white. It handles ink amazingly well. I put a link to, I did some ink testing yesterday on stream, and the plotter handled it amazing. All my previous ink tests have been amazing. I want to use this paper all the time. Like this could be like the one paper, right? I could just use this paper all the time. It's that good.

'''Brad:''' Another pro is just the construction quality, right? This is a premium product. We'll talk about the pricing later. And it's built that way, right? It does. There's no shortcuts. There's nothing like I question about the quality. It's just really, really well done. I think the lifter system is good because dividers are often an afterthought in products, and these are built to be part of the system, right? Like I have the pin loops. I have the loops built in them. They also have, I mean, the dividers, what I won't use them for, like they have printing on them, like alphabets and font sizes. But they have like line point measurements, Myke. Again, like goes back to the creativity. You bring out this lifter card, and you can see, oh, what is the point height of this line type of stuff. So, yeah, that's the pros. Like it's just built well. The idea is great. The paper is exceptional, like almost in a tier of its own, and just all around good. So now the cons. As great as the construction and quality is, I think the structure overall is a little bit, they're kind of caught in the middle here, right? So I have an A size, A5 size planter. This is the largest one they sell. They sell some smaller ones. It's, the leather cover is thin. Then the binding, like the rings are 11 millimeters, so they're less than a half inch tall, so it's thin. So it's a thin notebook, and it's kind of without structure, right? It's a little bit flimsy. Like if you were holding a magazine, like a thick magazine, not like a real thin magazine, but like I say like a thick magazine, you know, with like a square bound magazine. It still kind of flips over, you know, kind of, it's kind of floppy, you know, and that's fine, except you pretty much have to use it on a desk, right? You need to have it on a flat, firm surface. So they've obviously purposefully designed it this way because this is the biggest size ring you could put in there. So with this ring size, 11 millimeters, I can only put so much paper in here, in which I can only give the notebook so much structure. I would like it to feel sturdier or thicker or bigger, maybe not too much bigger, but I would like it to be almost a little more heavy duty. But they've obviously decided that this is why, that they've built this for a reason. I don't know what the reason is other than it's a very workplace-centric, like you have to have a place to use this notebook, right? If you're a fan of your hardcover, 200-page notebooks, like a Lloyd's term, and you can use that in your lap, you're not going to really be able to use this in your lap very well, right? You're not going to be able to use it moving around that well because it kind of flops around. You definitely need a desktop or a table or a hard structure to use it. So no matter what I do, I can only put so much paper in it to give it so much structure because of the ring size and the binding size, right? It can only be so big and so strong. And it's definitely a decision, right? Like they've done this purposefully. I just don't know what that purpose is. I don't know what they're trying to tell me with that. So that's my main con. I have a couple other little nitpicks. Is it real, Lava? Yes. So let's get to that right now. I have a section called neutral here because people are waiting for me to drop the hammer on the price. It's very expensive and I don't feel that it goes in the con section. I also don't feel like it goes in the pro section. I think the price is what it is and the price feels correct. That said, it is very expensive to get into if you're not committing to the system as a whole. So all the covers right now are leather. There's four or five different types of leather. The least expensive runs about $130 US. This is just the exterior. And the most expensive is around $200. These are just depending on the types of leather, the leather finishes. So I have one of the least expensive ones, but it's really nice. It's kind of like this pebbled leather. It's orange, of course. I'm a big fan of the plotter. Plotter's orange is their theme color. So you know I'm down with that. But yeah, I'm not going to say the price is a con because for what this is, that feels like the price it should be. But it's also going to cost you a lot to get into this system if you're not familiar with it or if you don't know how you're going to use it. So are you just going to use it as a refillable notebook? Well, the least you can spend is like $130 on the cover and then another like $10 on the paper inserts. Everything else is very like inexpensively priced. Like if you want to just test out the paper, you can buy a pad of paper. Like it's pre-hole, six-hole punched. But you can try the paper for like $10 or something like that. I don't even have it pulled up in front of me. It's inexpensive for like 80 sheets of paper. So yes, it's expensive. And the issue I think they're going to have is telling the story of why people should try it. So if I'm in a hardcover notebook, say Leuchtturm, that's just kind of the easiest example for me. Your standard A5 hardcover. Say I'm bullet journaling. I'm using it for, you know, my work notes. I'm using it for journaling. What is my reasoning for buying the plotter? You know, if I'm in the Hobonichi system and I have this planner layout that I like, well, what is my reasoning for going to the plotter? Right? And I don't know that they can completely answer those questions. It's very much a standalone product, which makes it a little bit higher barrier of entry. Even though you can customize it a lot, you're not going to beat, say, Hobonichi for planner layouts, right? You have your one planner layout option. Maybe they'll have more options down the line. I mean, Midori and Travelers, the company that makes them, has a billion different ones.

'''Myke:''' So maybe they make some different ones. Considering everything that they have on offer just to have like one planner layout is weird.

'''Brad:''' Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. And then if you're in the Hobonichi and you've already invested in those covers, you can get some expensive stuff in there. Well, why would you switch over to this? And if you're in the hardcover notebooks, does it provide what you need as far as a form and function? I don't know. So there are actually a lot of questions about how an individual would use it. Like, it's technically great. And I think it's fun and functional. So the last question I have, Myke, is or that I'm trying to answer for myself is, well, how will I use it or how have I been using it? And what do I want to see from them? What would I do differently? And I've been using it as a regular notebook, right? It has not usurped my William Hanna planner because of the planner layout, right? I have to have my planner layout that is not compatible with what Plotter is offering so far. So I'm not going to change that.

'''Myke:''' Here's my next question for you. Mm-hmm. Do Plotter offer a hole puncher?

'''Brad:''' They don't, but this is a standard six-ring measurement hole puncher to where you can get hole punchers for this.

'''Myke:''' So if you liked something else and you got the A5 one, but you like the whole accessory-based system and other stuff that the Plotter does, you could very easily add your own planner paper from somewhere else in.

'''Brad:''' I could, and here's why I won't. It's not big enough because I need one page per day.

'''Myke:''' Oh, it doesn't hold enough paper. Yep. That's what you mean by big enough. Okay.

'''Brad:''' Yep. I will get, so Plotter says it will hold about 80 sheets of their paper. Their paper is very thin and very, like, again, very nice. 80. Right. It's not a lot. It's not a lot. So, like, if I put in, like, 30 sheets of a different planner, like, that's almost going to be, like, the same capacity as what I have now. I just don't feel it's big enough for how I need to use it on the daily. Right? Mm-hmm. This is what I'm looking at. If I'm spending this much money on this product, it has to be a daily use product. Is this a daily use product for how I go about my day? It's not because of the planner. So, to me, and what I've explained to Plotter when I've done my interviews, is this is a secondary notebook for me. And that's okay. Like, it can be that. So, I've used it for podcast notes. I've used it for writing. What I haven't used it for is any type of journaling. That's a different notebook. That's a standard, hardbound, traditional, 192-page journal. Like, I'm not going to use a removable ring, just like I'm not going to use the disc-bound William Hanna for any type of journaling. I want those in fixed books. Uh-huh. So, to me, it has fit a secondary need, not a primary need.

'''Myke:''' And that's not what you want if you're Plotter, because you're buying, this is a lifestyle. Yes. You're buying into the Plotter lifestyle. Correct. You know, that's why they offer literally every accessory, including a bunch of accessories you never would have even considered before.

'''Brad:''' Right. You're getting in at a very high price point because you are buying the entirety of the system. You have to buy into the entirety of what the Plotter is. And I think what it is, I think, like, someone in an office, someone in a creative space, someone, you know, design, someone, you know, engineering, someone who's moving in and out of meetings, someone who's doing, like, physical work, you know, in office spaces needs to do that. But individuals, like, that need to have, say, like, a more detailed planner, a bullet journal type system, I think they're going to be looking for a different type of product. Like, this scratches a certain creative itch. I don't know that it scratches, like, a day-to-day planning itch. It's more of a creative itch that goes in here. So, that's what I've been using it for. Like, I tried to use the to-do list section. Like, there's no point in me using that because that's all in my planner. Like, I'm set. Like, and even if it could build the same system in this, I'm not sure it would actually fit in this notebook for what I need. Right. So, I think, overall, it's going to do well. It's a very niche product. It's a very high-end product. But the company behind it obviously knows what they're doing. But I don't know how many questions this is going to answer for someone. You know, when they're coming to me looking for, hey, I have this problem. What products solve it? I'm trying to figure out what this solves. And I don't know.

'''Myke:''' You're buying the beauty of this. It's really nice. But that's part of what you're paying for. You're paying for the design. You're paying for the modularity. Like, oh, man. What was the name of that product that everyone was Instagramming?

'''Brad:''' Tig.

'''Myke:''' Tig Mod. Tig Mod. Yes. This is that. Not in a bad way. But, like, this is... That was way worse. If you set this thing up just right, like, it's going to look real nice. Yes. And, like, if you want to put that on your Instagram or whatever, like, it's going to look great for you. And it's also going to be, you know, honestly, I'm very intrigued because of how highly you're praising the paper of this too, right? Like, that is very intriguing to me. But it does seem like this is, like, a very aesthetically pleasing in a, like, I'm fascinated by Japanese stationery kind of way.

'''Brad:''' Mm-hmm. Yeah. So we talk about how I buy things. And if I didn't know of the plotter and I walked into the San Francisco pen show and I saw this set up there and I saw the accessories and I saw the covers and I knew it was $200 for me to get into it, you know, to get set up. I'm 100% buying it.

'''Myke:''' Right. Because it's just speaking to you, right?

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Yeah. But if you ask me if I'm sitting here at my desk talking to you and working all day, it's not the first product I pick up.

'''Brad:''' Those two things can coexist in my world. They can't coexist in everyone else's world. Right? $200 is a commitment to someone to say, hey, I'm going to use this product full time.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. And I stand by my thinking of, like, that's not what they want from you either. Like, they really want you to be all in, Flynn. Like, do you just, that this is where your world lives inside of the plotter? Yeah.

'''Brad:''' So, this, in the hierarchy of design fills brands, this is the ultra premium traveler's notebook.

'''Brad:''' Because it's, the traveler's notebook is, again, just a leather exterior cover. You can actually make those, you know, customize those to the nth degree. And they just don't have the binding types, right? That's just the band, the bands you just insert, have the other inserts. That's why you can, you can build the traveler's notebook into more of a brick, like, feeling notebook, which I like. Right? Like, I want some structure, and I want some feel, and I want to feel, you know, like I'm a, like a, you know, like a sturdy platform that I'm writing on. And you can't do that with this setup. Purposefully.

'''Myke:''' How well do you think this is going to work in the international market? Is it just U.S.?

'''Brad:''' No, obviously not. Like, it's, you can get them from Japan now. Are they going to go outside of Japan and the U.S.? I don't know. It's a niche product because of the price point and because of the structure of the questions it asks for you to start with the system. Right? Right? It's never going to be like the Midori MD notebook, which is just a standard notebook, a high quality standard notebook that is, has freedom. Right? This notebook has rules.

'''Brad:''' Right? So, you're always going to be, not have, as, the more rules you have, the less widespread the product is going to be. But that's not what, that's also not what they're selling here. They're selling a premium good.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

'''Brad:''' Let's make no bones about it. This is a premium stationary product. And I see no reason for it. I think it's good that it exists. Like, it's in a good space, I think. Right? I think it's in a good space for price point and quality. It feels great. I would like to see, if I'm building this aside from the structure, I want to see some non-leather covers. I don't know that they're going to do that. What do you want?

'''Myke:''' Do you want other soft or do you want hard cover?

'''Brad:''' I want people who don't use leather to have an option, is what I want, before anything else. Because I think it's a cool system. And, you know, but that's how a lot of these are built. William Hanna doesn't have non-leather covers. You know, I don't expect them to do it because Travelers doesn't have non-leather covers. They own another company called Knox, which is actually a leather goods company. Like, they seem to be all in on the leather as premium product type of build.

'''Myke:''' But even then, for people that do, leather with structure is also another thing. And it seems like these are just like, it's just a piece of leather. Like, it's protecting the paper from the elements as such. It's not actually providing you have any kind of surface.

'''Brad:''' Right, right. Where something like the William Hanna is like a stitched, lined leather, like a double layer. You know, there's some sturdiness to it. You know, Rotor Faden has leather exteriors. And they also have like the bulky felt type interiors. Like the cloth and the fabrics that have some structure into them, too.

'''Myke:''' I think Rotor Faden, I don't know if they also do, but I know mine was, it wasn't real leather. Gotcha.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, so they have Rotor Faden eyes options. So, I don't expect Plotter to do that based on the other companies that they already own and what they make for. Like, if you look at the design fill catalog, there is no non-leather options. I would just like to see that. But then maybe that takes away from the presentation of the Instagrammable nature of what they're trying to sell here. So, yeah, it's a complex product, Myke.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Lots of pros, lots of pros, lots of cons.

'''Myke:''' I mean, I want to see it, too. I mean, like I would like to see it in action.

'''Brad:''' You would enjoy it. I think a lot of people are going to enjoy it.



== Plotter Website Launch ==


'''Myke:''' I look forward to the American website launching so I can actually properly go through it all.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, so it looks like October is when that's going to be wide open. They do have a newsletter list you can sign up, plotterusa.com, for their full launch. But, yeah, I think they were looking at October.

'''Myke:''' But you can talk about it from now.

'''Brad:''' As of August 27th, when they went public at San Francisco, I was free to talk about it. So, you'll see me Instagramming it and doing some other things. But just trying to do it from a perspective of, hey, let me explain this product as opposed to, hey, let me set up a photography set.

'''Myke:''' Yes. Okay.

'''Brad:''' Which is how I roll anyway.

'''Myke:''' Do you want to touch on anything else today?

'''Brad:''' Let me hit this. Let me hit one more link and then we'll wrap it up. We'll hold these Ask TPAs until next week. I did an interesting post on Monday that I thoroughly enjoyed. I don't know if anyone else enjoyed it. But I got a book that I've talked about on Twitter and in other spaces before called Full Spectrum. It's from a guy named Adam Rogers who's worked at Wired, the magazine you're familiar with, Wired. Myke, I'm sure.

'''Myke:''' Of course.



== Wired.com Article Discussion ==


'''Brad:''' Wired.com. Yeah, they've been around for, God, 30 years now. Adam's been there for probably 20 years. I first met Adam when I was working for JetPens because we were working on some pen articles together. Wired would always have some gear articles at the time. Back when I was a subscriber, they probably still do. And so, like, I've gotten to know Adam a little bit just online over the past decade. Like, I've known him for like 10 years online. He's like, hey, I wrote this book. I think you'll like it. Can I send you a copy? And I'm like, hell yeah. And it turns out this book is Full Spectrum, How the Science of Color Made Us Modern. You know my thoughts on just the idea of color. Like, we've covered some of the topics that Adam discusses, like Vantablack on here and that whole situation. And Adam was kind enough to, one, send me the book, and two, answer some questions I had after I finished the book, which I devoured in about a week. It was so well written and so just, like, Adam keeps it very, even though he's like trying to teach you stuff, and it's a very, like, a historical context of some of this stuff. It's very conversational and very modern way of writing, like, really kept me engaged in it, and I just tore through it. And, of course, I love the topic. So I did a little Q&A with Adam that I posted on Monday, which I really enjoyed, that he enjoyed the questions I had about the book, and I thought it was interesting. And if you know me at all and have been following me for years, you know that this book was right up my alley. So I just wanted to give a shout out to him and say thanks for doing this.

'''Myke:''' I was interested to learn that beetles make some aperitifs the color that they are, so that was good for me to know.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, and the funny thing about that beetle, which we didn't go to in the Q&A, even though, I mean, he did, but the color of that beetle is clear.

'''Brad:''' It's not red, which is the interesting part about it.

'''Myke:''' Wait.

'''Brad:''' I'll have to send you the story. Yeah, okay. So the actual pigment that comes from the beetle, that's a red tinted pigment, the beetle itself has a clear carapace. That's wild. Yep. So that's one of the stories in the book. How do people work these things out?

'''Myke:''' Yeah, I don't know.

'''Brad:''' So it's good stuff. I'm super interested. And if you're not interested at all, there's at least one topic you probably are familiar with, which is called the dress, if you were on the internet. Yep. In the past little bit, everyone knows about the dress. That's covered in this book.

'''Myke:''' Green, gold. Is it green? No, gray. Gold and white, black and blue. Yep.

'''Brad:''' So Adam was one of the first people on the dress when it – Yeah, on the beat. Like, oh, man, he talks about that. Like how – he talks about that from a journalistic perspective as, number one, someone who's knowledgeable about this stuff before this happened. And then, number two, being a journalist at one of the larger publications in the world, that this was like an emergency pager going off at 4 a.m. in the night when this landed on the internet for him. Like he talks about how important that was for him to like get that story out like kind of first and then follow it through into the science behind why this caused such an uproar on the internet. So it was cool to talk about.

'''Myke:''' That was like in the same 24 hours, it was like a bunch of llamas escaped, right? And then – I think so. I think so. And then the dress happened. Yeah. That was weird.

'''Brad:''' That was prime internet time. Back in the day, Myke, that was only like –

'''Myke:''' Simple time.

'''Brad:''' That was only like what? Like 2015? It wasn't that long ago. But, man, that was – different things were important on the internet at the time. Luckily for us, pens and paper are still important. Very important. And we talk about them on the internet.

'''Myke:''' Where else can they find us on the internet, Myke? If you do want to read people writing about pens on the internet, you can go to penaddict.com. That's where you'll find Brad's work along with many other fine, talented folk. You can find Brad many times a week over at twitch.tv slash penaddict where he streams about the same topics. You can find Brad's products at spokedesign.com and knock.co. And he is at dowdyism on Twitter, penaddict on Instagram, brad on micro.blog. I'm imike, I-M-Y-K-E. You can find my products at cortexmerch.com. You can get journals, notebooks, all that kind of fine stuff. Please donate to stjude.org slash relay. And when you do, send your receipt of your donation to stjude at penaddict.com and you can be entered into that raffle. And keep your eye on penaddict.com as well for the details about that so you can see all the products in their glory. Thank you so much to Squarespace and Uni for the support of the show. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Bye, Brad.

[[Category:Podcast Transcripts]]
[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]