Editing The Pen Addict 462/transcript

{{Infobox podcast transcript
| name            = The Pen Addict
| number          = 462
| title           = I Know That Sound, I Make It
| date            = May 18th, 2021
| hosts           = [[Brad Dowdy]]<br>
[[Myke Hurley]]
| guests          = 
| link            = [https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/462 Episode 462]
| audiolink       = [https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/thepenaddict/The_Pen_Addict_462.mp3 Audio Episode 462]
| length          = 56
}}

'''Myke:''' From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 462. Today's show is brought to you very kindly by Pen Chalet and Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad.

'''Brad:''' Very kindly to you, sir, Myke. How are you?

'''Myke:''' I'm very well. I'm very well. I'll give you a little tip on the inside. Don't tell everyone. When I say something like very kindly, it means that I don't have the tab open that I need, so I need to give myself just like one extra second. I was looking at a different, I looked up at my computer, I was writing down a note about the time that we started the episode, so I was writing that down, and then I looked up and our document wasn't the tab that was open. So I needed to then click that so I could see that it was in fact our friends at Pen Chalet and Squarespace that were sponsoring this very episode. So that was why I said very kindly.

'''Brad:''' Wonderful friends. Don't tell anyone. I won't tell anyone. The one thing we may not be, Myke, is professional podcasters, but we are professional vampers. We have learned to move all of the other body parts and appendages aside from our mouth to get things going in front of our eyeballs so we can then communicate those things while we're continuing to talk like nothing is going wrong. But we're doing magic in the background. This is what we do. All right. I did some magic in a review on Monday. Not really. That was a bad segue because it's a lie. I just did a review, which is what I do at thepenaddict.com. Yeah. And it's one of those products where I have a dilemma, Myke, and I wanted to discuss it out loud here. And we've discussed these types of products before, and I'm going to get your opinions or at least some thoughts on this because I'm not going to change how I do the things, but that doesn't mean I'm not dilemma about doing the things. So I had this Secura Craft Lab gel ink pen.

'''Myke:''' Can I just, before we move on, is this the same company that makes the Pigma Micron or is it not?

'''Brad:''' It's a great question, Myke. So it is, I think, the premium arm of the Secura brand. But you know what? That's probably something I left out of my review. So some of these companies have these kind of offshoot boutique-y brands that are like sub-brands, and I'm thinking it is. But you know what? I am not going to bet my last dollar on that because I haven't fact-checked that. So it caught me off guard right here.



== Secura Gel Pens ==


'''Myke:''' I'm looking through JetPens' website and the level up for Secura gel pens or whatever. There's like a billion pens. Right. So it's incredibly difficult to work out if it is that company. But nevertheless, it does actually somewhat answer my question of like the company that makes this pen makes a lot of stuff.

'''Brad:''' I would assume this is the regular Secura because they're the only stationary company that leans into their name with like the Secura markings and the, you know, like this pen with the Secura flower on the end of the pen. So it's got to be the same.

'''Myke:''' It's got to be right. I'll come to Secura. Craft Lab is the boutique-y brand though, right? Yeah.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. So that's where this pen falls in. And did you have an initial thought when you saw this pen? It's probably jaded by now because maybe you've read the review or not or maybe read my thoughts on this.

'''Myke:''' I did, but I know what my initial thought was. It looks like a cheap hotel pen.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. A boutique hotel pen. Let's be honest. It's Ace, not Marriott.

'''Myke:''' What I mean more is this looks like a disposable pen. Fair. I think, like to my eye. Mm-hmm. And that's the challenge. It's $50, right?

'''Brad:''' Right.

'''Brad:''' So what do I do with this product when I try to review it? Because when I, if you exclude the price, when I pick up the pen, I thoroughly enjoy the pen. And it's a great writing experience. It's a fun design. It's a unique design. I like the mechanics. I like the feel of it. You know, it's not a lightweight pen, but it's not heavy. It doesn't feel cheap or disposable. But you can't avoid the fact that it's about a $50 pen. And how do you, as a reviewer, like in my shoes, how do you try to break that down and saying, Boy, I really love using this pen. Boy, is it extremely expensive for what it is. And that's not even, the price isn't even the worst part. The price is the second worst part of this. Because it's the, if you read the review, the real kicker is the ongoing refill purchasing that would have to take place if you decided to commit $50 to this pen. Because the gel ink refills are short, which means they're going to run out very quickly, right? Gel ink refills.

'''Myke:''' And it's proprietary too, right? Yep. So you can't change it out for one that you like.

'''Brad:''' Right. And it's a proprietary size. It's short because of the way they made the twist mechanism in the center of the pen. So they have a short proprietary refill. And that refill costs $4.15. And that's for one of them? One. Yeah, it's a one pack.

'''Brad:''' So I love this pen. It is horribly priced.



== Initial Impressions ==


'''Myke:''' Why do you love it? I love using it.

'''Brad:''' It feels awesome to use. Right? Okay. And the refills are unique colors. Like mine is sepia black. So it's like this brown black. And then they have blue black refills. And it's gel. And it's 0.5. And it's sharp. And it writes well. And it feels good to use. And mine is orange, of course. And the mechanism is nice. And it's cool to see the flower on the back end. And I like the grip section with all the vertical lines. And it's just dope. And it's $48. $48. And $4 refills.

'''Myke:''' This would be so much cooler if they made it in like aluminum or like polished, like shiny aluminum. You know, maybe like rose gold or something. You know what I mean? Like the profile and the design is really cool. But I think if you make it out of plastic, this is a design that looks cheaper because of that, I think.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Yeah. So there's eight different colors they made, I think. You know, a pretty wide range of, let's say, muted, vintage-y type colors. These would do well like in the 1970s, right? Yeah. This color setup, which I like. Like I'm down with that color range.

'''Myke:''' I'm down with it, but not at a $48 price point. Right. I can't. Like not for you. I'm down with that. For a gel pen?

'''Brad:''' Yeah. I mean. You would never.

'''Myke:''' That's rough for me.

'''Brad:''' In a million years use this pen. You just, you wouldn't. I have, this pen is on my desk at all times.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. No, I get it. I get it. But it's like, you know, you know, the pens that I like, right? Retro 51s, Mark 1s, like, oh, I would consider it in this range in my mind of like my use case for a pen like this. I just think that they feel so much more premium and look so much more premium. And I also get the great refill that I love. Yeah. I can actually put some different ones in it if I want.

'''Brad:''' Right, right. So it's actually, it's easier to talk about this when I think like the, you get, you get more bang for your buck. Like Retro 51 is a good one. The Pilot Metropolitan has always been a good one of that, you know, category, right? Like this is, this is playing well above its price point.

'''Myke:''' This is just something where you really have to love the design, right? For whatever reason, you've got to like see it and be like, that is, that's me. That's my aesthetic, right? Right. And then it's, then go for it. Right. But I think it's expensive and I agree with you. It's made so much worse by the proprietary refill that costs 10% the price of the pen.



== Design vs Functionality ==


'''Brad:''' It's too much. And you're, you are just going to liquefy these, these refills, man. You're just going to blow through them if you're using this as your one and only pen. Oh, gel, gel just goes so much faster than ballpoints and rollerballs, just the way the formulation is. So this lines up with a couple of other products where I actually don't, I, the, the price is bad, but the performance for me is good. It's like the Sailor King of pen and the Ajoado pen, right? Both of those are exceedingly expensive for what they are, but they're placed in a more premium category from the jump. So maybe there's like an expectation that it's different where this would just seem, it's, it's hard to explain these in words, either typed or spoken. Like how you feel, how a reviewer of a product feels personally about a pen and how they translate that into the review, right? Because the price point is part of the review, right? Is this a good deal? People want to know, Hey, is this a good deal or not? Like not, not, you know, from a value perspective, not just on a, you know, black and white dollars and cents, just like, do you feel you got good value for the money? And in all of these cases, like I think I do, but I wouldn't recommend it to almost anybody else. Right. So that's, that's the challenge. Have you ever run across this? I know you don't review a lot of products. Have you ever run across, like, I really like this, but there's no way I can tell you, you should go buy this in any like technology things or anything like that. You know what I'm trying to say?

'''Myke:''' I do. I use to record with. It's like the microphone that I use is, is a really expensive microphone. It's called the Neumann KMS 105, I think is the name. And it's like an $800 microphone or something. Now you do not, nobody should buy that microphone. Right. Unless they are doing my exact job. And even then it might not be the right one for you. This microphone produces the closest representation of my actual voice. That's why I love it. That's important to me because I hear myself all the time.

'''Brad:''' Right.

'''Myke:''' And when I use other microphones, I can hear a difference and I don't like it. It doesn't sound like me. It's too bassy or not bassy enough, that kind of thing. And, but I would never recommend somebody buy this microphone because there are so many other good ones before you get here. Like all, like tons of USB stuff, like products made by companies like Shure and like these are products that I own and do use, but not for recording podcasts. But at the same time, I wouldn't recommend this. And then like the USB interface that I have, the USB pre-2 by sound devices, again, way too expensive for typical usage. It's not, none of this is what I told you to buy when you said, what shall I buy? Oh yeah. Right. And this is not what I recommend to people to buy, but it's very, so that's the kind of thing where I bump into a bit where it's like, I like this and I use this, but I know it's too much for most people and I wouldn't recommend it. However, if you are like me, then maybe it's for you.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. So we're into that super user slash super fan stage with a lot of these products.

'''Myke:''' This is a very high end gel pen. Right. Right. So, you know, you are only going to buy this if you look at it and immediately think to yourself, yeah, you know what? I'm good with that. I see why that costs that. I'm good with that. And I just don't, I can't imagine there are many people that do think that.

'''Brad:''' Right, right. And we're going to talk about that, we're going to explore that part of the topic here in a different question here in a minute. But I wanted to cover, I always like talking about these pens because I just end up talking myself in circles because, you know, it's just this really good pen for me, but not necessarily for you. It reminds me, there's this, you've heard of the movie Caddyshack? I assume you may not have ever seen it, but I'm sure you've heard of it.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, of course.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a quote in it that I use all the time for these products. And it's a nonsensical quote. I mean, it's a nonsensical kind of movie, but there's a quote that requires some context. It's me winning isn't you do. And I say that to myself all the time. This is a product that I love, but it's probably not for you. Like the context was in, well, it doesn't matter if I win, but it's important if I win for you kind of thing. So it's, you know, it's kind of, I always see it that way when I have these products. Like it's good for me, it's not for you, or it's good for you, not for me. One of those things. So I don't know. I love, this is what makes this fun because, you know, these products are really cool. They can stand on their own. It's a lot better than having a really expensive product that I have to trash. I'll tell you that. So, yeah, it's a good one. And we're going to talk, we're going to, we're going to explore this a little more. I'm going to pick your brain a little more, Myke.

'''Myke:''' But first we should take a break, right?

'''Brad:''' Yeah, we should.



== Sponsorship Break ==


'''Myke:''' All right. Let's go thank our friends over at Pan Chalet for the support of this show. They have everything that you're going to need from all of your favorite brands. Whether you're looking for roller balls, ballpoints, mechanical pencils, fountain pens, inks, pen holders, cases, refills, converters. No matter what it is, they've got it. And you can find brands like Lamy, Sailor, Kaweco, Pilot, Monteverde, Estabrook, many, many more. And they're an authorized dealer of all of them. Pen Chalet are always adding new styles of pens and new products to the site. You're going to find stuff there every time you go. And they're also doing their best to offer discounts twice a month and close out specials every two weeks as well. So you're going to find fantastic prices on these wonderful ranges of products. Pen Chalet has low prices and high quality. And they also offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee. They want you to be happy. And something they do for this is giving free shipping on orders of over $50 in the United States with great shipping rates internationally as well. So go right now to penchalet.com. That's P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T.com. And click the podcast link at the top of the website. Enter the password penaddict and you'll get your hands on this week's special offer. And the code that you need to save 10% on anything at any time at Pen Chalet. Brad, what's catching your eye this week?

'''Brad:''' Right off the jump, the Conklin Duraflex demonstrator at a greater than 50% off price point is pretty cool. You get a really interesting nib with that for a price you can be willing to experiment with. It's really fun. You scroll down a little bit further. And I think this is probably going to go quickly. The cross-peerless Star Wars rollerball. I think this is the Darth Vader model.

'''Brad:''' It's practically like closeout price. It's kind of stunning. And Myke, they have something in here that they pop up from time to time. Ron does. The Pen Chalet seals and wax sets are a really, really good price. They're on discount right now. And if you're into that letter writing and making them look all fancy and special, this is a really, really good way to get into some different stamps and some different waxes at a really good price. Last thing, Myke, this is one of those, I've said it a thousand times before, how these pens tempt me. The Pelican ballpoints. They have the turquoise white ballpoint in here. It's just awesome looking. And I don't know if it's necessarily for me, but this looks like an awesome pen for somebody out there. I know. Like, it looks like an awesome gift. It's, I don't know. It looks amazing. This is a really, really cool pen. And it's at an unbelievable price. So, yeah, check them out.

'''Myke:''' So, you want to go and check it out for yourself right now? Go to penshalet.com. That's P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T dot com. Click the podcast link at the top of the website. Use the password of a pen addict. And you'll get that 10% code and also all of those special offers. Our thanks to Pen Chalet for their continued support of this show and Relay FM.

'''Brad:''' So, we had some good banter in our Twitch chat yesterday. I've been on Twitch a lot, Myke. Going all in on Twitch. I've noticed that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We're almost a partner. So, yeah. We're almost there. Oh, you're nearly there? We're going to work on that application suit. Yeah. Maybe this week. Maybe next week. Something like that. So, yeah.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, buddy. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Fingers crossed for you, Brad. Fingers crossed. Thank you. I know it's not an easy thing to get to.

'''Brad:''' It's not. And I'm working at it. So, we're going for it. So, it's close enough to just put the pedal to the metal and see what happens. But it's also... One of the reasons I really like it is because we can come up with topics for the show. I was like, hey, we're doing the show a day early, which means I have to prepare a day early, which means I am not ready to write the show. What do y'all want to know? Like, we have plenty of Ask TPA, but is there a topic that y'all want to discuss? And just repeated questions about choosing a custom fountain pen. Generally from either like a maker or, you know, something highly specific that fits you or your style. That's, you know, maybe not necessarily straight off the shelf. And we're going to go through a bunch of these questions. They all kind of relate in some way, shape, or form. But the first part I want to lead off with, and it's from openness in the Twitch chat. What is your favorite pen material, Myke? Like, what's going to stop you when you're walking through a pen show or online, you're seeing pictures and you're shopping? What pen material is going to make you just kind of stop and, you know, look a little bit further? Is it metal? Is it some type of resin? Is it some specialty material? Is it wood? Do you have something that generally stops you in your tracks and makes you look further?

'''Myke:''' I think it tends to be resins.

'''Brad:''' Mm-hmm. You like the brightness?

'''Myke:''' Again, yeah, I like the variation. I think metal is, again, like, it catches my eye too. But I think if I was, like, walking through a pen show, it's more likely that a resin-based pen is going to catch me. It's either going to be a solid, bright color, or it's going to be something beautiful and swirly, or it's going to have, like, some kind of cracked ice effect or whatever. That tends to catch me more. Now, obviously, I do love metal pens too, right? So that there is something there. But I think what I tend to like most is things that look different, and I'm going to get most of that out of an acrylic. I would say, though, like, of resin, I should say, plastic, basically, a plastic-based pen, whether it's a good plastic or whatever. But what I tend to like most, most myself, though, is that when I pick it up, I want it to have some weight. Like, this isn't a thing that I desire, or, like, not desire, it isn't a thing that I say is a definite from my pens, right? It's not a requirement, but it does add that extra. You know, like, we talk about, like, the Pro Gears we have that have metal grip sections. Right. That really changes the pen. And, like, the new Canaleya pen with the Mailele band on it, similarly, like, when I pick that pen up, it's got the weight of that band, the Honokalani, and that adds something extra to that pen for me. It feels more premium because it is more premium because it's got some kind of additional thing going on with it. So I will always tend to like some weight if it's possible, but it's not a prerequisite for me to buy something.

'''Brad:''' It's funny you say what those last couple of pens that you mentioned, the Sailor with the Grip or the Canaleya, those are pens that you have when you're, you know, an avid user like ourselves, where you pick them up and you know exactly what it is. You don't, like, if you're at a show, you don't pick this up and go, oh, you know, what is this? And this is, you know, this is interesting. Like, you pick those pens up and you know it's like this is this exact pen and this is why I like it. And then on top of, like, the weight that you're talking about, then you get into, like, the materials and the feel and the look and all that. The resins generally stop me as well. I do, like, this is a yes to everything for me on these custom fountain pens. I'm pretty open as far as materials go. You know, I like metal pens, like, you know, when I see something that Matthew Martin's made, because I think he's just a really special maker and crafter of machined pens, right? I like his pens. And even though I have, like, the most basic one, it's just a full titanium barrel, I love that pen. Resins obviously stop me. I like bright colors, you know? That's the exact opposite of metal or, like, the darker woods, like Ryan Krusak uses. Like, I have all of those things. And I love them all. But there is one material, Myke, that stops me in my tracks every time. And I never end up going with it because generally the price, it's a challenging material and it's micarta. Anytime I see a micarta-based pen, I'm going to stop and think a little bit more. So if you're not familiar with micarta, it's essentially a fiberglass, if you will. It's like a, I don't know, it's got fibers in it, right? Like, it's glue-layered fibers. And you can do all kinds of different things with them. And then you get them made into sheets or blocks or rods. I don't know exactly how it comes. I think it might just be sheets. You get them and you, pen makers, turn them into pens. And it provides a different feel than resin or metal or wood. It has a unique look. There's like texture. You see the texture in the pen barrel. And I just love how they feel. They're generally pretty lightweight, which I'm generally, prefer my pens on the lighter end of the scale anyway. They're not air light, but, you know, they're generally lightweight. And I just love that look. And they tend to be pretty expensive too, because of all the challenges that come with actually manufacturing it and then turning it into a pen. So, you know, I've looked at Stilo Art when I've been to pen shows. And those pens are great. I've been following a maker on Instagram who does some really cool, colorful micardos, Atelier Lusso. I have not ordered a pen from them yet, but I probably should because that looks up my alley. So, I really...

'''Myke:''' It's a strong material, right? It's pretty resilient.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. It's not like the G10, which is the heavy-duty handle material. This is a little bit more pliable. The challenge with micarta is it can stain, right? Because it does have these fibers. And if the, say, like the edges on the threading are generally more open, right? So, if you get ink in there, it can stain it. So, I have a Twisby micarta that I love, but it's just completely stained, which actually doesn't bother me. But that's just a negative about the material. Like, if you have a fibrous material, it's obviously going to soak up the ink and there's really no way to clean those things. But I don't know. It's just an interesting...



== Material Preferences ==


'''Myke:''' It's one of those things where it might not bother you, but you want to know it going in and then it can add to the pen over time because it becomes more of yours. You know, like I definitely agree to that kind of thing. But you've got to know it going in because you could be spending a lot of money on it and it might stain. And you just want to know about that, I think. I think that's important.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. So, aside from materials, Carol asks, if you choose a custom pen made by a pen maker, what are the most important factors you consider outside of the initial look, which is what we just covered, really? Do you look at the grip section, the body materials, which we just covered, the pen size, the creativity, or the design? Do you look at the hardware? Do you have anything you have to have on a pen when you're just kind of buying something from a small maker? You say, like, this pen has to have this or I really can't use it.

'''Myke:''' I need to think about that. I mean, it's got to have like a grip section that doesn't require a specific way of holding it, right? Like I've bumped on that a bunch of times with different pens, like the vanishing point. You know, like I don't want something that's going to be like, oh, if you overhook, this is going to be bad for you. So balance, pens balance is important to me. The pen has to be nice to use without posting the cap from a balance perspective, because I don't like to post the cap, even if it, quote, balances the pen better, right? Like I don't like to do that. Filling system is important to me. I want it to be something that isn't complicated or fragile, you know, because I've had some problems with a custom pen that I have made, right? Where the Edison pen and there's something's gone wrong with a filling system, but I can't get in there. True, true, true, true. To fix it, right? So one day I will do something with that, but that's going to require pen show time again, and I don't know when that's going to be, but like something's happened to the filling system and I can't fix it. So I tend to stay away from non-converter or cartridge pens for that reason. This isn't a hard and fast rule, but it's a thing that I tend to do. Yeah. I don't really have much of a feeling on size. As long as I can hold it in my hand, I'm fine. And that can be like, you know, all the way down from an uncapped M90, which I can use, you know, all the way up. Right. Yeah, I think they're kind of my main things. Really how it feels in my hand from size, weight, balance. That is my most important thing.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, I agree with that. And I'm a little bit more strict than you on that, where the size of the pen does matter to me. I do not like large pens. I have a couple.

'''Brad:''' I'm actually thinking, I maybe have one where I've gone over my limit of just size. Like it's not a hard and fast rule. It's just how it feels in your hand, weight and balance and grip section and all that. How it all works together. Unposted, as you say. And is it too big? Like, so there's definitely pens that I eliminate just because they're too large. I tend to go for smaller, lighter pens. There are exceptions every now and then. Not that many for me. I'm pretty strict on that. Outside of that, like, I don't know how to explain it other than it's got to have something that just kind of, that makes it my pen. Like, oh, this is a Brad pen. Like, these are the features that I like. And it can be very plain. Like, I said, Matthew Martin's titanium pen. I have, like, the single most simple design that he has. Just smooth barrel, smooth grip. No added machining. Nothing anywhere. And I love that pen as much as, like, a primary manipulation, wild looking pen from Brooks, right? Like, those body materials and style and exterior aesthetic, but the pen size will get me more and the balance will get me more and how the grip section feels in my hand more. So it's all of that feel stuff, you know. And in the end, like, after I, if it passes all those things, then I start thinking about, okay, you know, what about this product is going to make me, like, use it every day, right? Or in theory, use it every day. We don't use all the pens we have every day, but you know what I mean. That's going to make it, like, better than some of the other pens that I have or more unique. The one thing, Myke, and I find it interesting you didn't say it either, is the thing I don't care about is the nib. I almost never care about the nib because I'm fine with steel nibs. I'm not thinking about it at that point. I'm fine with gold nibs. I'm fine with whatever, manipulating something afterwards. Like, I'm all about the pen at this point.

'''Myke:''' I, by and large, know I have options, whether I can choose an option from the maker or I'll just replace it. You know? Right. By and large, I feel pretty confident that if I'm buying a pen, again, like an app pen show, as long as it's not a vintage pen, right, that I can replace it. Like, any of these artisan pens, they use the block or yoa. And so, I can just change the nib. We can make do. Yeah. Yep. So, or they use some kind of standard sizing or whatever. But yeah, the nib part comes so late in the game for me. It's the last thing that I will check, right?

'''Brad:''' I agree. I agree completely. So, yeah. Like, I think the last word on this is, boy, it really helps if you can see this stuff in person. And it's, you know, like how the pen feels, you can't really reach through your computer screen and get, you know, a good grasp on that. But, you know, either at a minimum, find someone else who has the pen, then you can have a discussion about it. But I know that is a challenge with small makers and custom pens, especially for your first purchase with one of those makers, you know, to figure those things out. So, yeah, I'll be welcome. I'll welcome back pen shows wholeheartedly later this year, even though I probably won't be there. All right. We have more on this topic. I want to think about a few of these things a little bit more. But first, let's talk about another one of our good friends.

'''Myke:''' Squarespace. They are the all-in-one platform to build your online presence and run your business. From websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics, Squarespace, they've got you covered. They combine cutting-edge design with world-class engineering to make it easier than ever to establish your home online and make your ideas a reality. Squarespace has everything that you need to create a beautiful modern website. You start with a professionally designed template and you use drag-and-drop the tools that they make to really customize it and make it feel like your own. You can change the look and feel, the settings, even the products that you have on sale, just a few clicks. And all of Squarespace's websites are optimized for mobile. Your content is going to look fantastic no matter what size of screen it's being looked at on. You can get free unlimited hosting, top-of-the-line security, and dependable resources to help you succeed. Every Squarespace customer benefits from this. They have nothing to patch or upgrade. They have 24-7 customer support, so if you need any help, they've got you covered. They'll even let you quickly and easily grab a unique and wonderful domain name. SEO, email marketing, it's all built in. It's all there for you to take advantage of if you want it. With Squarespace, you can turn your big idea into a new website. You can showcase your work with an incredible portfolio design, publish your next blog post, promote your business, announce an upcoming event, and so much more. The sky's the limit. Whatever you want. I've made so many websites on Squarespace over the last 10 years. They are the place that I go to first when I'm thinking about any project online, and you should too. Go to squarespace.com slash penaddict, and you can sign up for a free trial today with no credit card required. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code penaddict to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash penaddict. And when you decide to sign up, use the offer code penaddict for 10% off your first purchase. And you'll be showing your support for the show. Our thanks to Squarespace for the continued support of the Penaddict and RelayFM.

'''Brad:''' All right, Myke. So we're going to continue this on with another question from Carol. And this doesn't necessarily have to be like the maker style, but this is a more general question. What is the fountain pen that most surprised you?

'''Myke:''' I had a little thought about this today. Because, I mean, obviously there's loads of stuff, right? Like, I pick up some, like, incredibly expensive pen, and I'm like, whoa, what? I can't believe it. You know, like, I tell the story of the king of pen, right? I used to think that that pen was a joke. And then when I looked at it, because it just seemed so ridiculously large, the nib was sized correctly. So it just looked like a jumbo pen. Like, either a pen for a giant or, like, a pen in a hobbit's hand. You know, like, it just didn't look right. And so that's an obvious one for me. But then I was thinking a bit more. I was like, you know what? The Twisby Go. That's the pen. That's such a good answer. In recent memory, that has surprised me the most. Because when they showed it off, it was like, what on earth is that thing? And I thought it looked cool and cute, but weird, right? And why? Why would you do this? Yeah, I'm like, why would you do this? It's a very strange product. Like, what is going on here? And then I tried it out, and it's like, you know what? This thing is friggin' fun in a way that pens usually aren't. It's, like, not stuffy in any way. It's kind of like, yeah, you're probably going to make a mess. But you know what? That's okay. You know, that's how I feel when I use that pen. And I really love it. And I recommend the Twisby Go to people all the time when they're trying to get into fountain pens. Because what it does with that spring mechanism, I think it really, like the spring filling mechanism, I think it really helps break down some of the nervousness around a fountain pen that you fill with ink. Because it's so easy to fill. And it's so obvious, the way that you fill the pen. In a way that maybe pens usually aren't, right? Where it's like, do I need to take the converter out and fill it? Or can I fill it through the nib? Can I stick the nib in the bottle? Like, all these little questions that make you hesitant. But this pen is like, well, no, it's very clear what you need to do. There's a huge spring in it. Just dip that whole thing in there and let it ride. Like, it's, I don't know. And then it's a great experience because Twisby pens are great. It's also like 18 bucks. It's super cheap. And then it kind of has a look and feel of disposableness about it. So you don't have to baby it. I think it's a great pen. And it was a big surprise for me recently.

'''Brad:''' So this isn't my answer, but your Twisby Go commentary made me think of it. And it's kind of the antithesis to the Twisby Go, just in design and appearance. But it was a really big surprise to me. It was the Pilot Metropolitan. I know I mentioned it early in the show. But just for, and they've gone and raised the price now, but this was a pen that was on the opposite end of the scale of the Secura Gel pen we were talking about before, where at first you could buy it for $15 and it's probably better than a lot of the pens that you own, which was a huge surprise that Pilot would do that, right? They really made almost a pen to cannibalize a lot of their other pens. They almost made it too good. And they eventually raised the price by a good amount, but it's still, you know, now on the $20, it's still a good deal. But that made me think about it when you're talking about the Twisby Go is when that Metropolitan first launched, that was a huge surprise because it should have been two or three times the price and Pilot did a nice thing and that was, that was good. Then they realized the error of their ways and raised the price. So there you go. My biggest surprise on fountain pens on a personal level is the Pilot with the posting nib, the PO nib that I talk about so much because for a couple of reasons. One, it was very early in my fountain pen journey and Thomas Hall helped me out with that. And we've talked about this before and you can go see some posts that I did years and years and years ago called My Fountain Pen Education.

'''Myke:''' I have such fond memories of those posts. Yeah.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. So Thomas kind of took me under his wing. He said, I have a lot of pens that I think by hearing you talk and reading your posts, I think I know what you like in a pen. Let me send you some to try out.

'''Myke:''' Thomas is one of the best human beings in the world, right?

'''Brad:''' Totally. Totally. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I miss seeing him. That's also why we need shows back because we get to be missing our friends. So he's like, let me just loan you these pens and you can do whatever. Just test them out and then tell me what you think and then I'll refine it for next time and send you something different. It's like, okay. So he sends me, you know, Pilot 3776s and a bunch of vintage, platinum 3776s, some vintage pilots and, you know, just a wide range. We went through like two or three batches of like six or eight pens each time. Well, there's this one pen that pops out and it's got this kind of claw hook shape looking pen. And I was like, this is wild. And he told me about it. And, you know, this is way, way early. So I don't know things like this exist. And then I inked it up and I was like, well, this is not going to work. This, this doesn't make any sense or defies all logic on how you should write with a fountain pen. And it ended up being like the perfect pen for me and the way I write, like with like a 0.3 millimeter line and very firm and very fine and very clean. I was like, I've never been like kind of taken aback by an experience before with that. And of course ended up buying one for myself after that. And so, yeah, that was kind of the one that, that really, really surprised me on a, on a personal level. And that's been, gosh, that's been seven or eight years now. I'm guessing I hadn't gone back and look, but yeah, it's been a, been a while. So, and that's still one of my most favorite pens that I own.

'''Brad:''' And like, and nothing's really good because nothing can compare to that. Right. Like I can buy, you know, a sailor that looks like, or has a feature like a sailor I already have. This one is very, very unique in that way to just have this really unique nib.

'''Myke:''' Good questions today. This has been.



== Pen Recommendations ==


'''Brad:''' Yeah. This, it, it's good when you can go back and forth and kind of like narrow down some of these questions. Has there ever been a pen that you turned me onto as opposed to me turning you onto a pen? Have you ever, like said, Brad, you need to check this out? I'm trying to remember.

'''Myke:''' No, I spent some real time on this and I couldn't remember any, which isn't a surprise to me. I don't know how that could have happened. Right. That I would find something before you. Like that just doesn't seem realistic. I think based on just the way that we work, right? The way we work. Yeah. Your job is to know about this stuff before me.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. Yeah. I did come up with one thing and even though it wasn't a pen specifically, you did turn me on to the shop there in London called Choosing Keeping. Yeah. Who I've ended up ordering from. And that was a really neat discovery by you and trying to figure out like, oh, how did this pop up and not, not ever cross my radar? And, you know, it went so as far as you going to an event there and me talking with them a bunch of times over email. So that was, uh, that was something good that you put me on to, even though it wasn't like specifically a pen.

'''Myke:''' Have you ever, uh, have you ever done this for me? Like you had to turn me on to a pen before.

'''Myke:''' Have you ever done that? A few hundred.

'''Brad:''' I'm not sure. I think that's what this entire show is.

'''Myke:''' The last 10 years?

'''Brad:''' Something like that. Yeah. You're, you're usually pretty on it, but there's definitely some, uh, some mic jaw dropping audio from, you know, interspersed throughout a lot of these episodes. No, you've, you've dropped. Oh my gosh. You know that sound you make? Yeah.

'''Myke:''' I know that sound. Yeah. I make it. Yeah.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, exactly. So that has definitely happened before.

'''Myke:''' Last impression.

'''Brad:''' All right. Last one of these, these general questions. And then I want to knock out some ass TPA that we've been sitting on. I think this is the hardest one of them. That last question was hard to answer because there really isn't an answer, but this one is very, very specific and very tough to answer. Any trends on the way in or out that you were noticing? This was via Kate in the Twitch chat yesterday. And I think about this a lot, right? Like you just mentioned, like, this is my job. So I think about these things a lot, but I never try to overweigh the past or the future. I kind of try to take it as it's coming. And then you notice, you know, the trend that, okay, it's a lot of this thing now. And then you start to notice it and you wonder. And I said this back, I think at the beginning of the year when we had our, you know, not our resolution stream, but where we were just talking about like predictions stuff. And I didn't get killed too much for it. And I still am kind of on board, even though like, I think I'm taking, taking the loss right now. But I think we're getting to an inflection point in the, the full material color mix up. Like, I don't want to call out primary manipulation specifically because it's not just that, but it's just like when all the pens look like that. Yes. It's, we're going to have a peak. We're going to have a peak here. It's that incredible slide, right?

'''Myke:''' If everyone is special, nobody is. Right. It's that kind of idea. And this is what I was going to say too. Weirdly, I think what's on the out is something that's on the rise, which is a funny thing, really. Yeah. There are so many of these types of pens now. You can still do this, but you've got to do it good enough, right? So you look at something like primary manipulation. That's like, you know, it's way up there. And again, the stuff that Canalea has been doing, like you could, you can describe it to someone. It's like, oh, it's, it's acrylics and they're intermixed, right? But the level of detail and, and expertise that are shown in the two that we just mentioned, it's more than the rest.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. I think that's a challenge. Like I, like, and I love this stuff, right? But I only need X amount, right? Whatever that number of pens in that style of pen, like I'm good. I'm going to give away one of my ideas because I don't think I can make it happen. Maybe I'll get some emails after this, but it's more of a cost thing. But one of the, one of my side projects, like in my little, my secret ideas notebook is I wanted to do a full rainbow collection of solid acrylic pens. Just have solid red, solid yellow, solid orange, solid purple, solid blue, solid green. And do just like the full rainbow of solids because it's just the, you still get that bright and funness, but it's kind of the antithesis of the wildness that we're seeing right now. And like, that's a, that's a big, massive project. And I don't think I can take on, but that's always been like a dream scenario of mine. It's like, can I make, could I make, you know, all seven different colors of the rainbow in just a singular solid color? Like just a solid, make me a solid red acrylic. And it sounds basic and it sounds simple, but if you do it right and you have the right shapes and right designs and you put them all together, it tells a different story than, you know, what we're seeing right now. So I don't know. That's just one of those things in my head that'll never happen, but I like the thinking about that kind of stuff. So other trends on the way in or out? I don't know.

'''Brad:''' It's, it's a little bit hard because I think of it, I get into the nitty gritty of this a lot, like, you know, stack nibs and things were, or a trend on the way in, but is it really when it's just the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction of people that are into that thing? Right? Like I almost don't count that as like a trend because that's like the super nerd trend, which is great. But I, you know, I don't see like that changing at all. Like it's never going to get too big and it's never going to get too small. It just is what it is. Bigger picture. I don't know. So the, the big thing I would love to see, and this isn't necessarily trend base, but I wish Pilot G2 would rebrand their pen, redesign it. Um, you know, that's not a trend. That's the most popular pen in the world. And I just want it to, I do, I want an upgrade. I would do, do something a little bit different, but anyway, that's not a trend. That's just one of those Brad wishlist things. So, uh, trends are hard and unless it's your only job is to track these things. And I tend not to, um, you know, I'll just get kind of sucked in with like a bigger picture thing. I'll notice every now and then. And that's, that's about it. So yeah, there you go.

'''Myke:''' Let's finish off this question focused episode with some more questions in the form of hashtag asked EPA. Nice. Yesterday is pens, which is a great Twitter account. Right. Um, there is that, this is a longer one as I'm not aware of any elections, local county or state in Macon, Georgia. This question is mostly in, but Myke, we just had elections for city mayors, police commissioners, county councils, and regional parliaments in the last couple of weeks. And the government asked people to bring their own pens and pencils to stop the virus spreading. What pen or pencil would you, or did you choose, uh, when you voted? So I will say I voted by mail for years. So I've been doing mailing votes in the UK for a long time. This started because I travel a lot. Right. And there were, I think it was a German election occurring when I was going to be in America. So I registered for postal voting years ago. So I've been doing that and I will always use something like a retro 51 or a Mark one because they're reliable. I enjoy them. And the ink is black. Simple.

'''Brad:''' Yep. So I vote in person still. It's all digital machines though, but you do have to basically sign in when you go or sign a little bit of paperwork. And I always bring, um, just during this past year and all the elections, I brought the spoke roadie with the jet stream refill just so I had my own pen to sign. I've been voting a lot, haven't you, over the last 12 months. It's been a lot of voting. Last 12 months we've had a lot, a lot of elections and runoffs. And I always bring my spoke roadie and like fill out my own paperwork with my own pen instead of pulling from, you know, the, the, the clean pen pot versus the dirty pen pot is how it goes. And I was like, you know what? I'm just good with my own. I'm going to take that one. So, um, I did have a funny story about pens and bringing pens to places. So we're starting to go out a little bit more here and eat out a little bit more here. And restrictions are getting lax and or, or relaxing. I shouldn't say getting lax, but restrictions are relaxing. Like we ate dinner inside for the first time in a long time, but like we were spaced out like miles away from all the other tables. It was kind of funny. So we always, when I leave the house, I always have a pen on me. Um, I just throw it in my pocket or clip it to my shirt or whatever. And we're at the table. The waiter comes up and he's like, Hey, I'm such and such, you know, I'm here to take your order. He goes, Oh, I forgot my pen. Hang on one second. So I go, Oh, hold up. I gotcha. And I had the pen addict, Karen dash eight 49, the orange one in, in my shirt. I was like, here, here you go. And I was like, just keep it like, just, this is your pen. Now, like we're not going to hand pins back and forth. Right. I'm not giving him my pen to like, keep trading, you know, hand germs. Um, and he's like, no way. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's yours. And he's like, Oh man, this is the best tip I've ever gotten. And like, like we haven't even ordered our drinks yet. Like I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. So he, he does, you know, he's does our, uh, our whole meal service. And he brings me the check and, uh, I'm going to, to sign for the check. He breaks out a pilot G two. I'm like, Hey, where's the pen? He's like, where's the pen I just gave you? And he showed it to me. He's like, Oh, I keep it over here in my pocket so no one will steal it. So it was, it was a pretty funny, pretty funny bit about bringing your, uh, bringing your pen out to the, uh, out in public and, and giving them away. So I made his day and I made my day too, that he enjoyed it. So that was fun.

'''Myke:''' That's good. That's, that's a good little story.

'''Myke:''' You just made a lifelong pen addict.

'''Brad:''' That's right. That's right.

'''Myke:''' All right. Um, next up we have a question from Sue. My partner is getting ordained next month. Wasn't into pens, but got her a Lamy that she loves. Would like to get her a nice, elegant fountain pen in the $200 range. Do you have any suggestions?

'''Brad:''' I immediately went to Leonardo, either the momento zero or Fiori, Fiori. That's a hard one to say. Fiori. I just think like that price point for, it fits the nice, elegant fountain pen mold for me, because you can get one that's bright and, you know, more colorful and standout-ish, or you can get some more subtle ones and the hardware looks really nice. And the nib looks really nice. And, and the way they put the pens together and they're polished and they just look excellent. Um, in that same category, if that's not your style, um, even the, the Montegrappa Elmo, I put it in there. That's the similar style to the Leonardo Memento. But then I'd also look at something like Franklin Kristoff, because they have so many different models in that price range. Yeah. And it's a completely different look than like a Leonardo Memento or a Montegrappa Elmo. So depending on what styles you want to go for, you'll be able, should be able to find something like between Leonardo and Franklin Kristoff. And then I just threw in the, the Elmo as a, as a kind of a Leonardo number two kind of thing. But I think that those Leonardo's, the Memento zero and the Fiori with the steel nibs and that price point is really hard to beat from a style, especially like a gift aesthetic. It, it's one of those that crosses, like checks all the boxes from, Hey, let me give someone a pen to I'm a super pen nerd. Let me have this pen. It could be the same pen with Leonardo. That's why I like them so much.

'''Myke:''' Finally, Arden Burrell asks, I want to buy a treat for myself after writing a scientific paper. Would you go for a Sailor Pro gear or a glorious GMMK Pro 75% keyboard? This one's for me, baby. All right. So let me just, so the GMMK Pro, it's a pretty cool keyboard. It's kind of, it's got a lot of attention because it's made by a company called Glorious who are a PC, like gaming PC peripheral company. They make lots of keyboards and mice, but this keyboard, the GMMK Pro, I have one. It is a, it is a keyboard made by a kind of mass market company that has some of the features that you would find on more custom boards. So it's like the mounting system. The fact that it has a rotary encoder knob on it and stuff. It's, you know, so it starts at, I think it's like 170 bucks in total. Currently right now they're doing reservations. They're getting super back ordered. This has ended up being something really popular. I got my order in very early and then over time, you know, they, they're getting pretty back ordered. So you've got to bear that in mind. Plus it doesn't come with any switches or key caps. You have to add those in as well. So depending on what you go for, you will probably be spending more money than you would on a Pro gear.

'''Myke:''' If you, or somebody already has.

'''Brad:''' Price increase.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, I know, probably if you, if you go with goods, if you go with key caps, I mean, you can get key caps from glorious. They do some pretty, you can get it all from them. Like you can get switches from them. You can get key caps from them. I don't like the way they print their key caps, but if you do like the designs and especially if you don't have anything to compare it to, uh, you can go for it. One thing I will say, they have a black slate, what they call white ice and the white ice on their website looks white. It ain't silver. Bear that in mind. It is not a white keyboard. The closeups look silver.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, the closeups are silver.

'''Myke:''' If you go down to the images below, you'll see they look silver. Some of them, right? It's, that is it. You got black or silver. I went with black and I'm pleased that I went with black because I would have been really annoyed if I would have bought something called white ice and it was silver. Um, but what I like, they sell lots of accessories. I got a bunch of their accessories and you know, it's like, I think is a really good starting point for like the custom mechanical keyboard thing. I would actually say if you are somebody who already owns pens, if you are a phantom pen owner already, then you should get this because this is super fun and super different and it's a good on ramp, I think. But just bear in mind, you will be entering the keyboard hobby if you haven't already the way that the keyboard hobby is intended, which is waiting. It is a patience. You wait for everything. I like this week. I bought some key caps that I, the earliest estimated delivery date is Q3 2022. That is 18 months from now at the earliest.

'''Brad:''' And that's just what you have to do. That's the, the current expectations in the general expectation.

'''Myke:''' You will wait. You will be waiting pretty much a year at least for anything that you buy. That is a pre-order. That's just how this hobby is. So if you buy one of these keyboards, I mean, I know that there are people that pre-ordered in like November or December that still haven't gotten theirs. So just understand that that's, that's just what it's like, but it's fun and it's different and it has nice RGB. I'll put a link in the show notes to a good YouTube review from the like top keyboard influencer. His name's Teha. Uh, I'll put a link to his GM and K pro review in the show notes. It's a great YouTube video and you can understand what you might or might not like about it, but I recommend it.

'''Brad:''' Awesome. I'm not going to dig too far into the answer because I actually agree with Myke. I think you should go for the keyboard first and like get the one that you want. And even though that it may or may not lead to more and Myke's case, it led to a lot more. I think like I use my keyboard as much as my pens and maybe Arden, you know, maybe use that more. So go ahead and get that first, I think, and then supplement, you know, in a year or two with, with a pen that you really want. But regardless, congratulations and treat yourself.

'''Myke:''' If you would like to find the show notes for this episode, they're in your podcast app of choice. So you can go to relay.fm slash penaddict slash 462. If you want to find Brad online, go to penaddict.com. He is penaddict on Instagram. Dowdy is on Twitter and Brad streams at twitch.tv slash penaddict twice a week, Tuesdays, Thursdays, 10 a.m. Eastern at least. And some other streams in between. Make sure you go follow and you'll get those notifications. You can find me streaming as well. I'm mike.live every Friday. I'm going to be streaming again this week at I think 1130 Eastern time this Friday. You'll be able to find me streaming keyboard stuff. If you're interested in some of the things we just spoke about, come and check out my Twitch stream and we can talk about them. I can show you the GMMK Pro if you want. Just ask. Look, all that kind of stuff lying around.

'''Myke:''' Thank you so much to our sponsors this week, PenchLA and Squarespace. And thank you for listening. And we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad.

'''Brad:''' Goodbye, Brad. Goodbye. Thank you.

[[Category:Podcast Transcripts]]
[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]