Editing The Pen Addict 432/transcript

{{Infobox podcast transcript
| name            = The Pen Addict
| number          = 432
| title           = Blacklight Poster Pens
| date            = October 14th, 2020
| hosts           = [[Brad Dowdy]]<br>
[[Myke Hurley]]
| guests          = 
| link            = [https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/432 Episode 432]
| audiolink       = [https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/thepenaddict/The_Pen_Addict_432.mp3 Audio Episode 432]
| length          = 52
}}

'''Myke Hurley:''' From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 432, and today's show is brought to you by Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi, Brad. Hey, Myke, how are you today?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'm good, how are you? I am good. I have a question for you. I have a podcasting question for you. Okay. Do you have a podcast voice? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yes and no, though. I think I do, too.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yes and no. So, I would say that I am definitely a little bit more eloquent on shows, or like, I'm less rare to slip into bad habits, but I record so many shows and have recorded so many shows over the last 10 years that my actual voice has become my podcasting voice, by and large. Right. We talked about that, yeah. Yeah, it just morphs a little bit now. But I have vastly changed the way that I talk over the years. Some things purposefully, some things just accidentally. And so, it's a yes and no question for me now.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Well, I asked because I caught you today, right? Like, we're talking, like, we go from, hey, let's chat about things within seconds to of starting the show, right? Yeah. So, that switch flips, like, almost in the same sentence. And I was like, oh, there's Myke's podcast voice. It's time to get serious. Oh, right. Yeah. Like, I could tell. I could tell today. So, I thought that was funny. But, yeah, that's one of those things. Like, I catch myself talking in different ways sometimes. Like, if I'm on the phone or something, because I'm actually, you know, we're talking out loud in a room to ourselves. I guess the difference is that... It's an odd thing if you think too hard about it.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Before we start recording, I'm more likely to be, like, muttery or whatever with you, right? Than I'm going to be on a show, right? So, like, I'm purposefully being maybe a little less eloquent because we're just chit-chatting.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, we have some long-term and ongoing follow-up that we will never shake the sailor follow-up, Myke. It's going to be the sailor follow-up, the follow-out, the follow-on, all the following of the sailors just because that's something that we're interested in. And to be perfectly honest, it gives us some really interesting things to talk about in the grand scheme of the pen business, which I know you and I like to discuss outside of products. So, we've talked about sailors' ownership change slash possible ownership change in the past, right? With the company, the Conglomerate Plus, taking them over eventually. You know, there's this whole convertible bond ownership percentage thing going on, and it's in process. So, our question recently when we've been talking about it was, has this happened? Is plus the official, you know, over 50% owner of sailor right now and listening to Jacob and CY on Tokyo Inklings this week, who are the primary source for all of this information, they do such a great job. The answer is no. And I found Jacob's conversation interesting this week, and I'm not going to do it justice, and I don't want to talk about it completely because y'all should go listen to their show. We'll have a link into the most current episode, but you should be subscribed to the Tokyo Inklings podcast regardless. But basically, Jacob went and read the public disclosures, you know, just like any corporation in any country. When they're a publicly owned company, they have to disclose certain things. So, the latest disclosure set clarified some of the things that Plus wanted from sailor and clarified the time frame that Plus has to actually activate this convertible bond status to take over, which turns out it's a seven-year period, Myke. So, they don't have to make this decision quickly. And on top of that, they have put in, I don't know, requests, I think is being the nice way to say from a sailor as a business right now. Like, Plus is saying, before we convert these bonds and take this ownership and give you this money to pay on these debts, we want to see some profitability from your business line. So, I think that may be why we're seeing some of the product lineup changes. So, that's making, it makes sense either way, right? Plus is maybe not the owner yet, but they're pulling strings. They're proxy owner. Yeah.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Like, they don't actually own it, but it's like they dangle their ownership on a string in front of sailor. And I get it, like, this is not a bad thing. It's kind of like, if you want to continue having any autonomy, you need to do what we say in the things we care about. Right. Right. And that's kind of where they are, I guess.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. This is the big boy business stuff, right? Like, this is the stuff that, like, we see, we get to talk about, hey, look at all, look at the 20 SKUs sailor just yanked from their product lineup. You can't get those anymore. And then we say, okay, why did they do that? Right. But on the other end, plus is saying your business is not profitable and we're not going to give you the money until this is. So, these changes kind of go hand in hand with that. So, anyway, I thought it was interesting. You should go listen to, we're not doing that conversation justice on the financial side of things. Jacob is actually in finance and is able to talk about these things in a very, very good manner to help you understand what's going on, if you're interested, like I am. Because you and I, we just, we follow the pins, right? We want to see what's new, what's old that's going away, what interesting decisions the company's making and things like that. So, on top of that, the logo and design change, CY broke that down. I thought he had some really good insight on what it means from a Japanese perspective, you know, what the logos and designs or what story they're trying to tell in Japan. And that's something, that's insight that you and I don't have, right? We look at it just from a design perspective, but CY is able to take it and say, how does this play in the history of the brand, in the history of stationary stores in Japan, in the current model of stationary stores in Japan and how brands work? And is this like a good decision and effective for Sailor to make these changes? And I thought that was a great discussion. So, yeah, definitely go, go check those out. And if you're interested in these things like we are.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right. Next topic is, is going to be a tough topic to discuss. And that's our friend, and I'm going to call him that, Bob Johnson, who you've heard us talk about for years in both good and bad terms. As the, the show runner of the DC pin show, he passed away. We just got news of this Monday. I forget when I first heard, they sent out an email, the DC pin show sent out an email, but Mr. Johnson passed away of a heart attack back on September 9th. So they just notified everyone now. And with a letter, I'm not going to read the whole letter from the DC pin show. It's not very long, but we'll put a link in the show notes where I just copied the text if you're, if you're interested. But Mr. Johnson, basically he's had, he's had heart problems in the past. This is, he passed due to a heart attack and it wasn't his first. So, you know, we'll, we'll miss Bob. And he has been one of the most interesting characters in my time in the pin business and in the pin realm and doing pin shows and things like that. In that we have had a love hate relationship with how he's done things, right? He's, I think an interesting character is the best way to describe Bob. And I, I'm not gonna like, I've always picked on Bob in a fun way because he's just, he's just a goofy dude. And he, but he was genuinely down to earth. He was very loyal to the people he put his trust in. And it took a while to break through with Mr. Johnson. Like I remember for years, if you'll allow me to share a couple of Bob Johnson stories, you know, the DC pin shows considered the biggest pin show in the world, like whether that's accurate or not, no one can say, but it feels, you know, okay. It's an important show. It's definitely the biggest show in the U S or was at the time, you know, over the past few decades. And Bob has played a role in that, right? Like Bob, you know, made this happen. I don't want to say he pulled it out of thin air, but like, this has been his thing for years and years, decades even. And it was the show that everyone just marked on their calendar at the beginning of the year.



== Super Show ==


'''Myke Hurley:''' It was called the super show for a reason, right? Like, it's why we went there. It's why you went there multiple times. Whilst it was hilariously mismanaged, Bob obviously had the ability to bring enough people to one place that you would keep going back every time because the money could be made. Right. And that, that was the whole thing about it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. It was unlike any other show in a good ways and bad ways. Right. It was, it was the biggest moneymaker for most vendors who showed up there of the year. Like people would make their years at that show, but you also had to deal with the headaches that came along with that crowd, that size. Yep. Um, Bob's flightiness, you know, Bob, Bob is an interesting, good, interesting guy. Like for years, like he wouldn't give me the time of day, right? Like people would purposely drag me over to talk to Bob and introduce me. And like, he would, he would just be like, Hey, how's it going? And then just like, keep walking. Right. Like he had no interest. He had no interest in talking to me and like Lisa Van Ness would just kind of same with Lisa. Like Lisa would just eventually just broke him down into like, once you figure out like, Hey, I can do something for you, Bob, like help you out. Like I want to help you out. And like, here's like things we can do. Like he didn't, he may not have been the best person to understand the modern turn of pen shows. Right. I think that's probably fair.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Without saying, right. He was very stuck in the past and there's a place for that. But, you know, as we mentioned on the shows many times, like unfortunately the world, the world did start to move and it was leaving, uh, him behind a bit. Right. Bob had a little bit of trouble keeping up

'''Brad Dowdy:''' with the modern times and what the modern idea of a pen show was not that he was resistant to change, but the scope of his show combined with any little change would just like throw him for a look. But I, like I eventually got on Bob's good side. Bob knew my name. Bob would say hi to me on purpose. Like Bob's a, Bob's a guy that would just put his head down and walk through until where he needed to get to go. Right. He didn't want to be stopped or anything, but then like eventually at the DC pen show, he would give us a room to hold like a little get together and giveaway. He would just give it to us. Like we didn't have to pay for the room, which, you know, that stuff's expensive. And, um, you know, and then kind of when the show had to move hotels was when kind of the DC show, that's when it kind of got thrown for a loop. And, you know, maybe that was, you know, Bob's doing, maybe it wasn't, I don't pretend to know all the details at the time, but ever since the show hotel had to move, it's been in kind of, uh, uproarious state, if you will. Um, you know, the new hotel doesn't have as great a space. Um, Bob has not managed, did not manage it as well, but it was improving over the first few years. The first year you went to DC was at the new hotel. So you didn't get to experience the old hotel. Um, and the new, the new hotel was your first experience of DC and of Bob and it could not have gone worse for you at the time for all, for literally everyone there at the time, it could not have gone worse. Um, but you know, it's, you know, we made it through that year and, you know, Bob made sure it got better every year since then. So going forward, his family has been involved in the DC show. I guess it's his sister and his son that are now taking the reins of the show and they've been working with him for the past 10 or 15 years. Um, so I anticipate that we're not going to miss too much of a beat with the DC pen show. They're going to keep it going. Um, you know, Oh, it's Bob's nephew. Um, it's not, it's Bob's sister and Bob's nephew. So they've been doing this for a while. Hopefully we can continue to have the DC pen show. I'm sure we will and do it in memory of Bob and yeah, they mentioned wanting to do one in 2021 and they want

'''Myke Hurley:''' to have a, uh, an event to celebrate Bob's life, which I think would be, you know, will be quite,

'''Brad Dowdy:''' quite a special thing. Yep. So one last, one last Bob story I got to share and our good friend, Kerry Yeager of Kenro industries and fountain pen day shared this image of Bob on his Instagram. It was in a story, so we can't leak the image, but maybe I'll get Kerry to just post that as an image on his Instagram so we can go see it. But there is this, an amazing story behind this image. It's Kerry. This is, this is the time. This was the year before you came, Myke. This is the last year in the old hotel. And there's this atrium out in the middle of the hotel. So like the, the show, the main shows in this big ballroom. And then there's tons of tables out in this atrium area. So it's Lisa Van S's tables. Van S pens has like three or four tables. Then I have one table, me and Jeff of knock. So we had a knock table. And then right next to us on the other side was Kerry. And he brought his fountain pen day stuff. This is prior to him working for Kenro. So that's our run of tables right there. So me and Kerry are right next to each other and Jeff and Lisa. And so the conversation at DC, you can't help it to, to the conversations around Bob, like, you know, he's just an odd duck and trying to get his attention. This is when he doesn't really know who we are, right? Doesn't know anyone. Like this is when you couldn't get a table. Like we had to get our tables through Lisa because Bob basically wouldn't answer our emails or anything like that. So Kerry is selling fountain pen day swag. And he said, and like, every time Bob would come over, we'd always talk to him like, Hey, Bob, you know, you know, I'm Brad. And Kerry would be like, I'm Kerry. And Kerry had these hats at the time, these fountain pen day hats. He's like, I'm going to get Bob to take a picture with one of these hats sometime this weekend. You just wait. So we finally buttered up Bob enough to make him stop. And Kerry's like, Hey, we want to take a picture. We, and Kerry had his hat on the fountain pen day hat. And he's like, Brad, come here. And he's like, he got Bob to put on this hat and me carrying Bob there with Bob wearing Kerry's fountain day fountain pen day hat was like the catch of the century. And we just, we just had the best time with that picture. The Bob thought it was funny, you know, Bob in the picture, he's like, I want no part of this, but we got him, we got him to do it. And that, that pretty much sealed our friendship with Bob going forward. We were able to like, you know, get our own tables and do our own thing. And, you know, he knew who we were at that time, but that, that was one of my many fun Bob stories. So if we get to DC in the coming year, we will be able to share more stories. And I, there are, there are a lot of Bob Johnson stories. So rest in peace, Mr. Johnson. And, uh, I hope the, uh, DC pen shows in good hands and I look forward to its continuation and I'll certainly do what I can to support it. Yeah, of course,

'''Myke Hurley:''' you know, this is a, that the, what this kind of thing is a terrible thing, especially, you know, like stuff like heart attacks happen so quickly, right? So it's, I'm sure it is a, uh, a horrible, shock to the family. And, and of course we're, you know, we can only offer our condolences and we open, we'll, as, as the rest of the community, I'm sure we'll do, uh, we'll honor this individual who has done a lot, um, and we'll continue to, you know, to honor his legacy, uh, into, into the future. All right. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Make your next move with Squarespace. They let you easily create a website for your next idea or project with the ability to grab a unique domain name, take advantage of award-winning templates and more. They are the home for your next project online. Maybe you want to create an online store or a portfolio or a blog. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform that will let you do it. There's nothing to install or patch or upgrade. You don't have to worry about any of that stuff. Squarespace have got you covered. They have award-winning customer support. So if you need any help, they will be right there for you. Squarespace let you quickly and easily grab a unique domain name and all of their award-winning templates are beautifully designed for you to show off your great ideas. Squarespace plans start at just $12 a month, but you can start a trial today with no credit card required by going to squarespace.com slash pen addict. When you decide to sign up, use the offer code pen addict to get 10% of your first purchase of a website or domain and show your support for this show. Once again, that is squarespace.com slash pen addict and the code pen addict for 10% of your first purchase. Our thanks to Squarespace for their support of this show and all of RelayFM Squarespace. Make your next move, make your next

'''Brad Dowdy:''' website. So Myke, in the vast pantheon of topics we've covered in 432 episodes of the pen addict, are there any topics that have made you more uncomfortable than what I'm about to talk about?

'''Myke Hurley:''' And that is skin pens. Well, that's the problem. My main problem with this topic is that you have written it in the show notes under the heading skin pens, which I'm not happy with because you've done that purposefully to gross me out because it's not pens made of skin. No, but it's pens to write on

'''Brad Dowdy:''' skin. I feel like it's an accurate, accurate name for this section. No, you know, it's not though.

'''Myke Hurley:''' At least it's accurate. Yes. But you picked that specific one so you could gross me out.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' True, true. I did. And this is one of those questions we took on Ask TPA last week and I was anxious to do it. It's a legitimate question and I think it's a fair topic to cover. But then Myke, my inbox blew up unlike any other topic in quite some time. People have a lot of opinions on what pens to use to write on your skin. And I missed the most obvious one, which I have seen and actually I think is a legit, you know, good choice. I've seen henna pens for sale, right? You've seen henna art pens. Either Zebra or Pentel, one of those has made a henna pen set before. I couldn't find it now. Like there's no current version of this. But those pens are made to draw on the skin and last for several days. Like they're not going to wash off within a day, you know, maybe a week or so. Bic, as it turns out, another email. So I got a lot of emails on henna pens. I got one email that Bic still makes a pen called the Body Mark. That's literally the name of the pen, the Body Mark. You can go buy the Bic Body Mark right now. That is a popular skin art pen. So we will have a link to that in the show notes so you can see this. Because this is a whole arena, like I was not expecting to be involved in, you know, being the pen addict. Like this was never like within my purview of having to answer these questions. So getting to dig into it's pretty wild. But the best answer, Myke, and the one I got multiple times, and it's also kind of obvious if you think about it, but I never would have thought about it until someone mentioned it to me, is there is an entire industry of surgical pens. And skin markers. And I got recommendations in my email for the ones that people should choose. So this one, I don't know, you have to buy them in bulk from like medical industry sites. And we won't go into completely what they're used, but there is a there is a violet fine point marker, Myke, that you can buy in like a bin of 100. And it seems to be like the popular going choice for writing. So Nick, I know you're out there and I know you want to do the full research.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Isn't it like one of the uses for these types of pens is if you're going in, say to have an operation on your leg, they draw on the leg that's getting operated on. So everyone's 100% sure of which leg is having the operation, stuff like that.



== Surgical Pens ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And that's why you buy them in bulk, because they're probably one time use, even though you could like some of us who are writing, you know, we could write the pen from beginning to end. But in a surgical situation, we're marking it, you know, then we're chucking it, right? Right. So that's why you can't you can't buy like a three pack of skin markers, Myke, you got to buy the 100 box of 100.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, probably.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' But like, if you go on this surgical pen page that I missed, it's just pages and pages and pages of these things. So if you really want to get serious about writing on your skin, I think that's the that's the way to go. So I don't know. Just go with the big body mark. Let's let's leave it at that. The body mark.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I mean, I know why they make it that this supposed to be like a fun tattoo pen. But why do they make this pen?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Yeah. Temporary tattoos. It's just silly. They're actually when I was looking for the henna pen set that I had seen in the past. They're actually some very expensive henna pens. Oh, I bet. That's not a surprise to me at all. But like, like, like $50 pens, like I didn't figure I didn't bother linking those or anything in here. But the big body mark seems to be the temporary tattoo pen of choice. So, Nick, I would like a report back on on what you're going to go with here. So this is a this was a very important follow up, Myke. And I thought worthwhile. And I'm shocked at the amount of feedback I got on this topic, either on Twitter or in my email. It was great. Thank you all.

'''Myke Hurley:''' All right. So you may have a review of a pen that I've become more familiar with this brand recently called Bennu. Do you want to explain to me a little bit about why you wanted to review the Bennu pen? What Ben and what Bennu kind of are?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes. So I'm going to I'm going to give you the short version of why I wanted to review the Bennu Euphoria pen, which is their newest pen. It's because I didn't like any of the pens that Bennu launched with years ago. So let's explore that a little bit. Yeah. So that's how that's how this came about. And this is not a, you know, like I'm not knocking Bennu for what they are or like when they launched, like they made pens that were very flashy in very unique shapes. Like they had some like the little torpedo shapes with, you know, wild materials, which I'm actually completely down with and like a very narrow grip section. Like I could see the pen. They were, you know, like 60, 80 bucks. And I was like, this just isn't a pen for me, you know, back in the day when Bennu first launched. And like, that's cool. Like not all pens are for all people. And they kept making new designs, using new materials and becoming a little bit more popular. And then one of the turning points that really made me start paying attention, which I talked about in the review, was when I was working for Van Ness pens at a pen show, we couldn't keep enough inventory of those pens in stock for people.

'''Myke Hurley:''' For as much as you know, who was buying these pens? Was it enthusiasts? Was it people that were kind of like in the shows doing walkthroughs? Like, do you know that?



== New Customers ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes. So this is an important distinction. These were new customers. Right. Buying their first expensive fountain pen. That was like $80. Like less. At the time, like the Bennu pens that they launched with were all under $100. That's been their price point, right? Like 60 to $80 has been their price point. Very loud, very unique, very eye-catching. So people who were buying their first fountain pens were drawn to them, right? Kind of like Kaweco, right? You know, different style of pen. Kaweco is a little bit more subtle. Some of the models are much cheaper, but the Kawecos are the same thing. Same with Lamy, right? It's kind of that entry-level pen that catches your eye. And then it falls into personal taste from there, right? Does this style fit me? You know, is this my aesthetic? Yeah. And at the time, I always felt the Bennu like colors were cool, but like, this isn't a pen for me, right? This is, you know, I don't want to say not serious enough, but like, it just didn't, it wasn't a fit for what I liked in a pen. But then they kept, you know, innovating and trying new shapes and they've come up with some really wild and, you know, pens that I, I just could never see myself using. But then they started mixing in a few newer designs that I was like, oh, okay, this is getting closer to something I want on my desk or I want to, I want to write with. And, you know, that was when the Scepter and the Grand Scepter came out there. These large twisting barrel pens, they're very, very large pens, but yeah, they're huge. But then they've ramped up their materials too, right? They've continued to push the idea of what a pen should look like. And these look like no other pens, right? They're just, they just don't. They're just glitter bombs and glow in the darks and hot pinks and purples and neon blacklight posters. Like these are the blacklight, blacklight poster pens of the, of the pen world. And now they've gotten to a point where they released the Euphoria, which I don't want to say is the most basic Bennu pen because nothing they make is basic, but this is the most traditionally shaped fountain pen of their releases. It's just a long, you know, standard fountain pen barrel, standard cap clip, you know, taper at the end, taper in the front with the Bennu wild colors. And I'm like, okay, this is it. So I, I've worked with Bennu for years. They've sent me tons of products over the years. They've sent me this, they sent me this pen for free that I reviewed and they've been really nice about giving giveaway products and I've always respected what they've done, but it's never been something that I wanted for myself, right? How do I justify this pen? Say, so this pen was $118. Like that's the high end, right? You can get up to like 128 if you went into the glow in the dark. So how do you justify this pen versus say a Pelican M205 or a Platinum 3776 that you get in that $80 to $120 price range? Now those Pelicans and Platinums aren't always that price, but you can find them in there. And I should throw in Pilot 2, the Pilot 91 and some of the other 74 you can find in that range. How do you justify a Bennu pen when those are its competition? And the answer is you don't, right? This is not a pen you're trying to say, hey, this is the epitome of technical German engineering in the Pelican M205, right? This is not the glorious, you know, high tech Japanese nib of the Platinum 3776. This is a pen that's designed to be fun, right? It's never going to compete on a technical specification with the companies that have been around for a hundred years that also have pens in the same price range. But my God, if I don't love using this pen and it can be that way, right? We can have these things. I'm never going to tell you that this pen is better than a Pelican M205. It's just not. But I might enjoy using this pen more because I pick it up and it makes me smile. And it's fun to use. It's fun to look at. And it kind of cracks me up like in the best way possible. Like what more do you want than a product that puts a smile on your face when you use it? And that's what Bennu pens is. And it took me a long time to figure that out, right? I was like, I kept wondering what I was missing. Yeah. You know, and this is never going to be the enthusiast pen, Myke. We're never going to be, you know, wondering about all the Bennu limited editions like we do the Sailor nibs. We're just not. That's not

'''Myke Hurley:''' what Bennu is. Not every company is built to be the same. Like what are the main, I mean, I know the answer, but like what are the main differences to explain it? Why aren't we going to be flipping out

'''Brad Dowdy:''' over every single release? Well, I think there is a limit as long as Bennu's making this style of pen that they're making, there's a limit to what the feel of the pen is going to be with the materials that they use, right? This is what I feel in my hand adds up to what the question they're currently asking me. It's like, hey, do you like this pen? Is it fun to use? And do you feel it's a fair price? And it's like, yeah. And I think there's a limit to that. Like, I don't know if there's a, you know, a $200 Bennu pen with a gold nib that is, at that point, you're asking me to answer a different question. And that's a more, you know, serious writing discussion to have and a more technical discussion to have. Like, this is a pen that you would see at, you know, at a shop and pick it up on a whim where a lot of its competition is maybe more research driven on why you're going to make this purchase. Where I feel like the Bennu pen is just, it's just, you kind of, it's all right in front of you. Kind of like you're getting what you're getting, you're getting these wild shapes. And, you know, is it the, you know, perfect materials and perfect nib and perfect section and all this? No. But is it awesome to use? Yes. And it's, it's hard to explain. Like, it's different than all of these, these pens I'm trying to compare it to. And like, I'm good with this one, right? I don't need another one. I'm thrilled with this one. Maybe there'll be one down the line that I'll want. But it's not designed to be that way, right? It's more than a starter pen. But I don't know that it's like the hardcore fountain pen user pen. It's, they're hard to place. Like, I don't know how to place them other than they sure as heck sell well. Like, they seem to do very well with their wild colors. People really enjoy them. And it's one of those pens where people accept it for what it is, right? They're not trying to be, you know, pretentious fountain pen snobbery. They're trying to be fun. And that's what I see when I see this pen. And I'm really thoroughly enjoying it. And, you know, sometimes you just have to take that and, you know, ignore all the comparisons to like, well, yeah, I can get gold nib Japanese pen X for cheaper than that. Well, yeah, sure. But that's not the conversation I'm trying to have with this pen. That's not what it's about. And it's better that way, in my mind. Like, it's just pure fun. And it's good. I enjoy it.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I mean, I was genuinely very surprised when I saw the price. How much did this pen cost? 118. I mean, like, that's why people like them. They look wild, right? So like, if you've seen people with these crazy acrylic pens, the stuff that we're talking about all the time, which is like multiple hundreds of dollars, and then you see one of these, and it's like, well, that's like a quarter of the price. And, you know, you can make your own decisions as to whether you think it's a quarter of the value or not. You know, for me personally, I think they look good. I actually think from my eye, I was surprised by the price, but I would have probably put it at maximum no more than $200 looking at the pen. Because when I look at the images, I can see like, the finishing on it is not to the standard that I'm used to with some of the pens that I have, right? Like, some of the design is not that great. I'm not a big fan of the logo and how large it is on the cuff. And neither would I, you know, like be super excited about a Schmidt fountain pen dip, which this pen has. But at that price, I mean, if you like the style, it's unbeatable, right?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right, right.

'''Myke Hurley:''' It's such a fantastic price.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. So here's the thing. Like, if I put this, so the category, what, a couple months ago where I talked about the $150 to $200 fountain pens, you know, that grouping of pens that I really enjoy with the wild materials, you know, always speak about, you know, the, can I get something that's really cool and wild. This pen cannot compete with those pens on feel and finish and fit and, you know, quality. And it's not trying to, like, if it starts trying to do that, then I think Benu pens, you know, loses the idea of what they are. Like, they're not going to compete with the Leonardo's and the Montegrappa's and, you know, the Franklin Christophe's in that $150 to $200 price range. But for what they are, I think they're pretty damn cool.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep. All right. You know what else is pretty dang cool, Myke?

'''Myke Hurley:''' What?



== NotCo Kickstarter ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' The NotCo Kickstarter. Done right is. For the Wax Canvas, Brasstown, and Sinclair. There's, like, four days left. Maybe it ends on Sunday. It's, like, the Kickstarter math is always weird because they don't roll over the hours for, like, you know, entire days. They'll, I don't know. It's interesting. They make it look like it's going to end on Friday, but the actual end date isn't until Sunday. So if you're interested in this, we're creeping up on 500 backers and $40,000 raised. We'll get close to those things by the end. We'll see if we tip over those numbers. Those would be just nice raw numbers to hit, but, man, it's heckin' good right now with what we've reached. I'm very pleased and thankful for all y'all supporting this. I'm excited to get these. I'm excited to get this order in, Myke. I'm excited to, like, get the machines going again for NotCo Goods, and thank you all for your support. And there's a few days left if you're interested.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yep. I'll put a link in the show notes. It's been going great. I'm super pleased for you. Yep. And, yeah, I'm really excited to see. What's the delivery date on these?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I put... March? I think I put March. Yeah. Like, I gave myself six months knowing... So any... I've said this out loud before, so this shouldn't come as any surprise. Any time frame I give for a manufactured good is double the quote that the manufacturer gave me.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yes.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes. So when I was setting up this project and I'm talking to the manufacturers, like, if we order X amount, what is my time frame to receive these? And they'd say, like, 10 to 12 weeks. I'd say, okay, cool. 24 weeks it is. That's what it takes, though. It's just how it is. And you're thrilled if you hit 24 weeks at that point. Absolutely thrilled. That it's 100% gonna happen that way. So you can do the math on any project or any release I am ever giving you. Any release date. You know that Brad was told half that time. But there is no benefit for me ever, ever, ever saying the accurate manufacturer time from what they quoted me. None. Absolutely none. None. So there you go. Welcome to the inside baseball, even though I've said that before. So there you go. No, I think that's the right... I think that's right what you're saying. So that gives me the biggest chance to be right on delivery dates. As much as I would like to tell you 12 weeks and deliver them in 12 weeks, like, that's doing no one any benefit.

'''Myke Hurley:''' No. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep.

'''Myke Hurley:''' All right. You may want to hit Ask TPA or two. We have a quite long one here at the beginning. So this might be our Ask TPA for the day because it's broken up into multiple...

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. And I mentioned to this questioner, this came in via email, and I said I wanted to take this one on the show. So I've not replied to them saying that I want to take it on here. But I want everyone else to know, we have a bunch of Ask TPAs in the queue, which I'm always, like, building it up. We're going to get to all of these. So it just may not be today. But we'll just keep running through them. Keep sending them in at hashtag Ask TPA on Twitter or email me at hello at penact.com.



== Journaling and Planning ==


'''Myke Hurley:''' All right. So this question comes in from Jim. And Jim says, I've recently started getting into paper journaling and planning as part of managing my mental health, which is a great reason to do it. Of course, part of that means I'm going way back into your archives and listening to everything I can. Thank you. That's very awesome. The reading list I'm getting just from your links is getting bigger and bigger thanks to my podcast, and then my podcast backlog. I haven't taken the plunge into fountain pens yet. So I have a gel ballpoint rollerball related question, which the first part is, what are your favorite or essential refills for your non-fountain pens?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right. So just big picture, let me set up this question and the rest of these questions. These, I wanted to cover this on the show because these are very thoughtful questions. And these are things that every single one of us thinks about, but we never have the opportunity to like get to expand on these topics at all. They're very kind of 101, 201 type of questions, but I thought they were important to answer because as I was reading these questions, it's like, oh, you know what? I do this exact thing that Jim's asking us here. So like with this first one, what are your favorite essential refills for your non-fountain pens? I keep two, maybe three kinds of refills ready. So number one is the Uniball Signo DX. I always have several 0.38 colors, usually black and lavender black are my two most used and then blue black. So the problem is you can't really buy refills other than black. So I have to buy extra pens. So I'll buy extra lavender black and extra blue black pens so I can steal the refills out and use them like in the spoke pen. The second one is the Schmidt P8126 because I prefer that over the stock P8127 that ships with retro 51s and other brands, pen brands that I like because while I like the rollerball refill of the Schmidt, I actually love that refill. I want the just a tiny bit finer and that's what the P8126 gives. It's 0.6 millimeters as opposed to 0.7 millimeters. Why they just don't make it a little bit smaller, I don't know, but whatever. What do I know? Third one is the newest entrant into, hey, what essential refills do you keep at hand to use? And it's the Jetstream SXR007. It's the Parker shaped Jetstream refill, which has replaced the Fisher Parker style refill that I would usually keep. So those are the two kind of pen categories that I'm trying to fill with my preferred refill. So Parker style refill and then the Schmidt style refill and then the DX is just kind of its own thing. So the Jetstream SXR007 for my Parker refills, the Schmidt P8126 for all the pens that I have that take that refill and then the Uniball Signo DX. So outside of that, those are, I'm answering this from my perspective. Outside of that, I would, for everyday use, I would also add in Pilot Juice refills. Those go into all your Pilot G2 type of barrels. So for a lot of people will use those. So I just don't, I don't have a lot of Park, excuse me, Pilot G2 refill pens that I'm using right now. Like the only one I can even think of is the Sunderland MK1, which I have a blue black Pilot Juice 0.38 in. So there you go.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah. I mean like my thing, uh, would, would be the Schmidt, right? Like if in this category, it's the only refill that I truly care about, um, you know, outside of a fountain pen.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. Yep.

'''Myke Hurley:''' The next part of the question is what products, paper, notebooks, blotters, disposable pens, refills, inks, whatever, do you always have at the ready? What products do you place an order for when they look to be getting low? Let me start with this one. Um, so that last part of the question is Pano books. Like as soon as my Pano books started getting low, more Pano books are ordered. This is one of the only stationary products that I am like that with. It's just like, I got to have them. And when they start getting low, I'm going to refill them. Everything else is a little bit more ad hoc. I feel like, or at least not, uh, something that quote unquote needs refilling very often. When it comes to the products I always want at the ready, it would be these days, a theme system journal, a field notes, notebook, a retro 51, and then the, or Mark one. Uh, so like having the P8 126 with me and one of my favorite two bodies of that pen. Um, and then some kind of fountain pens, right. But like, it's like, I have very specific brands of things that I need. Then it gets a little bit more, uh, wobbly with which pen do I want to have the P8 126 in? And then it's just like, which fountain pens do I want? And it's usually a sailor of some kind. And they're things I'll always have with me, but it's like super specific and then trails off.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. So mine's kind of in, in two separate blocks as well, but really it's kind of old me and new me. So starting from the days where I was working my IT job all the way up until probably like the last year or two, there were two notebook products that I constantly used, constantly went through them. And as I was getting low, I would reorder them. One is the dome paper idea journal and two would be the Rodea A4 and A5 dot grid pads. So, you know, the, the idea journal was like my favorite desk notebook of all time. It's just, it's one of those products that I just, you know, have a huge, huge love for, but I've essentially stopped using them because I don't need what they offer anymore. Um, and as far as like durability and portability and quality, like I'm able to use whatever at my desk now, um, at home instead of like at work, the Rodea, it was probably like my most purchased product, both the A4 and A5, because I'd use them for product reviews and for desk pads. And they're just very, very useful. And, you know, I'd go through, I'd order three or four at a time, go through them, get down to the last one, order three or four more. I've done that repeatedly, repeatedly with, with Rodea. And that's kind of stopped like all of a sudden. So I think I'm into a couple of different things these days. And we're going to see if it's going to be a refill bulk order type situation with the Clairefontaine Triumph pad. I'm enjoying that for product reviews recently. So I always keep like whatever notebook that's doing the best for product reviews, I'll always order those in multiples. So right now it's the Clairefontaine Triumph pad, which is, you know, a really quality blank sheet paper, which is surprising even to myself that I am using that so frequently. That might be my next bulk paper purchase where I might buy like three pads of that, right? I'm not burning through that. What I'm burning through just on a personal level is like Midori A5 notebook, but that's not something I need right now because I have other things that will fill that need when this notebook is full, if that makes sense. So I don't do that as often as I used to with the dome paper and Rodea. And yeah, that's, that's pretty much it. And like, I don't need to do that with inks or disposable pens or, or anything else, right? It's mostly paper goods that would be this. I want to be sure to have X when I run out. And right now I don't have that as much as I used to.



== Follow-Up Product ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh, I will say, Oh, there was like a followup to this question. This actually does make me think of one product. It says, I'm sure field notes and no knock notebooks are in that category, perhaps some fine liners. What else? Fine liners. If I get low on like a secure pig or micron, 0-2 or 0-3 tip size. Like if I feel like I've burnt through those, I'll buy like three more of those at a time. Fine liners are one of those products that you do burn through. And that is one, either that or the Kuretake's. If I get down low on those stocks, that's when I buy like three or

'''Myke Hurley:''' four at a time and then go through it again. So anything else I've gotten more generally, I've gotten fascinated by the push and pull of buy it for life versus single use products in a traditionary hobby. Even though you have a lifetime commitment to an Akaya or a Murex, you still have to ink it up. And that means either developing a dedication to a particular line of consumable products or choosing to continue exploring the world of products out there, even if you've chosen to commit to a favorite pen is a fascinating aspect of the hobby, which is very true. And I think for me, I think for both of us, a mix between the two is kind of the way of like finding the things that are quote unquote for life. And they're like the more expensive products, but then also balancing it with the things that are more consumable. And when you put it like that, it's kind of funny, really, right? That you may spend like $800 on this pen that is like everything that you've wanted. And then you write on it on a $15 notepad that just gets thrown away.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, I think that's an important part of this entire email, which I thought was great. So thank you, Jim, for sending this. But the push and pull of the buy it for life for single use products is always going to be there, especially for someone like myself who uses so many. I want a lot of things, right? I want my desk to be filled with a huge range of products that I can pick and choose and love equally, no matter if they were $3 or $300, right? What I get from those products is an equal amount of love and respect, no matter the dollar amount. That's the, you know, the products that I choose that are my, but those are my buy it for life products, regardless of price, right? I'm not buying it for life. I'm buying it for love kind of thing, right? I, my black wing, you know, could be sitting right next to a Nakaya and, you know, that one is, you know, $2 and 50 cents and one is $700 and I love them equally. I want them around at all times, but discovering that is where you can get in a little bit of trouble when you're trying to figure out what are your black wings and Nakayas, right? You know, going through the discovery phase of buying lots of things and then, you know, getting overcommitted to things that you don't really love. That's something we all kind of run into. I don't really have a great answer for that. Just go slow. So until you figure out the things that you know are your products that you want to have around and, you know, that give you joy, that you respect either for their quality, their design, their craftsmanship, their story. And getting to that point, that's where the, a little bit of the danger comes in. It's, it's could be like a risky proposition sometimes, but, you know, hopefully you get there and you figure

'''Myke Hurley:''' it out. All right. If you have a question you'd like to send in for a future episode of the show, you can do that by sending out a tweet with the hashtag ask TPA using question mark ask TPA in the RelayFM members discord or emailing it to hello at penaddict.com. If you want to find Brad online, you can go to the penaddict.com. You can go to notco.com, spoke design.com, 10am, Tuesdays, Thursdays, Eastern time, twitch.tv slash penaddict. You can find Brad on Instagram. He's penaddict and dowdyism on Twitter. I am iMike, I-M-Y-K-E. If you want to follow me on Twitch, go to mike.live and you can do that as well. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the show. Thank you to Squarespace for their support. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.

[[Category:Podcast Transcripts]]
[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]