Editing The Pen Addict 317/transcript

{{Infobox podcast transcript
| name            = The Pen Addict
| number          = 317
| title           = Born With It
| date            = July 18th, 2018
| hosts           = [[Brad Dowdy]]<br>
[[Myke Hurley]]
| guests          = [[Jessica Coles]]
| link            = [https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/317 Episode 317]
| audiolink       = [https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/thepenaddict/penaddict317.mp3 Audio Episode 317]
| length          = 64
}}

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Hello and welcome to episode number 317 of The Pen Addict Podcast. I am your host today, Brad Dowdy. My normal Pen Addict partner, Mr. Myke Hurley, is off vacationing. Well, honeymooning, I should say. It's not a real vacation. I attended his wedding. I've let him off the hook for the next couple of weeks. So I'm glad to be joined this week by my good friend, Jesse Coles. How's it going?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Jesse? It's going pretty well, Brad. I'm excited to be on here with you. Thanks for asking me.



== Vintage Pens ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' This is going to be super fun because I get a lot of questions about pen shows and vintage pens and Estabrooks. And those are kind of your forte, I think, at least in the pen world. I mean, I know in real life, you actually go by Supermom. But in the pen world, you're known for those things. So I I'm glad you said yes so I can pick your brain for the next 45 minutes or so. Just about all these

'''Jessica Coles:''' things you're into. Yeah, go for it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. So I really want to know since... Okay, so I don't know exactly when I first met you. I was trying to recall back and I couldn't come up with like a definitive time. But we were just talking before the show. The last time I actually saw you in person was probably DC a year ago. But I guess we talk online so much now, I feel like I know you, but I really don't. So I don't know where your story begins. How do you even get into stationary to begin with? Is this a new thing? Was this something you picked up when you were a kid that pens and paper were important? How did just your love for

'''Jessica Coles:''' pens and inks and paper get started? Oh, I think that actually I was born with it. Yay. You know, my mom, her favorite thing to do every fall was to go school shopping with us because she loved every bit of office supplies and all that. So I think it just came to me in my blood. And I don't know, I can't remember how I was into them before this. But when I was seven years old, I started keeping journals all the time and writing down and decorating paper and doodles and everything. So, of course, I got into the gel pens, you know. Absolutely. The 80s, the whole decade was amazing for gel pens. It's the only place you could get any color. Sure. So I was rather addicted to those. And I got into the fountain pens. I actually got like a little set when I was eight. And I ended up hating it because it would never work very well.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right.

'''Jessica Coles:''' I think it was like one of those Schaefer calligraphy sets.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, that you just get like in the plastic packaging, like the plastic shell packaging, and you got to rip that thing open and figure out how to make these things work.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah. And if you don't use them all up at once, they go dry. So I had that and I loved it, but then I hated it. So I stayed away from any kinds of fountain pens. But once my kids started back to school, about eight years ago or so, I was looking for a better journal online and came across traveler stuff. And then I came across Metropolitans and I figured, ooh, I can change the ink. That sounds like fun. So yeah, that was the last time I thought rationally, I think.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' That's a good way to put it. Now, you mentioned your kids. Have you passed along this gene to them? Do you get more excited school shopping for stationery or them?

'''Jessica Coles:''' They enjoy it quite a bit. I have one kid who is ravenous about fountain pens and he comes to shows with me. And my daughter came to St. Louis with me. So yeah, they have some of the love there. I think that the mechanics of it get them.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. You mentioned that you found the Pilot Metropolitan was kind of a rekindling of the fountain pen flame. That's not very long ago. And I have to wonder, you got into vintage pens and restoring and repair them. And we're going to talk about some of the specifics to this later. But that's quite a jump. I've been in the fountain pens for a while. And if I break something or find something that's out of whack, I'm writing a check for someone to fix it. But you're getting in there. This seems like it escalated quickly, I guess, if you ask me.

'''Jessica Coles:''' I think it did. But my degree in college was in aerospace and ocean engineering.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Ah.

'''Jessica Coles:''' So I've always been tinkering with things and fixing up and working on them. The mechanics behind them fascinated me. I don't know. It pulled me in very quickly.



== Pen Repair ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Was there a particular pen that you had at the time that you said, oh, this is broken. I'm going to figure out how to fix it. Was there like a specific pen that you remember that happening with?

'''Jessica Coles:''' It wasn't a specific pen. It was when I went to a pen show. I went to the Colorado show once and I was terrified because I had no idea what a pen show was going to be like. But some of the vendors had boxes of broken pen parts or bags of pens that weren't worth their time to fix. And I grabbed a couple of those during that show and brought them home and tried working on them. And I broke a couple and got one to work. And it was the most thrilling thing ever.

'''Jessica Coles:''' So I was hooked there, just using all of the little tools and getting in and making it work again.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So when do you think this show was? Do you know which, how many years ago or what year this show was?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah, it was actually the second Colorado show. It was in 2015.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Okay. So I want our listeners to do the math here. This is not long ago. And Jesse has taken this to an entirely awesome level from her gel pens in seventh grade to a 2015 pen show, not knowing really what she's getting herself into. And now is one of the most, I'll say it if you want, one of the most respected vintage pen restorers in our community. Oh, thank you. all these pens together.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah. Well, eBay knows me well. There's always broken pens around. And yeah, I was just counting the days until the next pen show. I didn't know there were other pen shows.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right.

'''Jessica Coles:''' But I did find those eventually.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Do you know how you found the first Colorado pen show? Because that seems like kind of a, like a bit of an outlier for someone who wasn't really into fountain pens. Then you go to this pen show and now we're here.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, we had been living in Kansas for a few years and moved back to Colorado to be with family in 2014. And I was already well addicted to fountain pens. And I was excited that we were moving back close to Denver because I figured there's got to be some kind of fountain pen stores there. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was paradise pen at the time. And that was really it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Sure. Which for those who don't know, that's like strictly modern, new, full MSRP shop.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yes. But, and they also, you know, sold luggage and planners and all that. But I went in there just to see, you know, what was going on and be overwhelmed. But I started talking to Pete there and another couple people that had walked in and also talked to Pete about their own fountain pens. And just struck up friendship right away with anybody who was coming in there who knew about fountain pens. It was kind of amazing to me that there was that camaraderie already. And he told me that it was a shame that I'd come in right then because the first Colorado show had been just a week before. Oh, wow. So I was very sad about that. But I had it on my calendar in big letters for the next year. And that's how I heard about it was just word of mouth. And yeah, it was, like I said, it's all

'''Brad Dowdy:''' downhill. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's uphill in your case, like, like rising to the stars. Oh, so like, all right. Like I'm still, this is boggling my mind. And, and I'm just fascinated by this. So 2015, you go to the show, and you buy some parts and you go home and you fix them. At what point is your next idea? I'm going to sell these pens, and I'm going to go to the pen show, and I'm going to be the vendor, or I'm going to sell online. Like, how does, where does that jump take place in, like, in this process that you're going through in, like, 2015, 2016?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, that was an external voice to me that was my husband saying, you have to sell some.

'''Jessica Coles:''' So the only way I really knew how was at fountain pen shows. And I made that decision, actually, when I was out in San Francisco at a show, at the show there a few years back. And I, I was very, I was encouraged by everybody there. And they wanted to bring another person deeper into the, into the hobby, you know, because we're all wonderful enablers. Yes. And that goes for vintage people as well.

'''Jessica Coles:''' And I just kept fixing up as many as I could. And then I went to Chicago one year, and I had no plans to sell, but I brought stuff because I wanted to lay it out and trade. And I did lay it out and trade. And then I had so many questions of, are you going to be selling at the show? Or why don't you just do that? They've got an extra table, go do it. And after hearing that enough times, I did. Because that, it was scary. Selling something to someone that you have repaired and are putting your reputation behind is terrifying to me.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Absolutely. Absolutely. So what, what year was that Chicago show? How many?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Um, that was last year.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Cause I'm wondering if that's where we first met actually.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Cause I was at that show.

'''Jessica Coles:''' That may have been the first time we met in person. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Wow.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yep.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So, okay. So this is, this is awesome. Like I, I'm learning something like, like just pretty much how insane you are. In the best way possible. Yeah. In the best way possible. Like my kind of obsession. So, okay. I want to talk about like some of the specifics that you're into because you're kind of, you're kind of known for, you know, one particular pen brand, but we're going to tease that for a second while I, uh, while I say thanks to our first sponsor this week, which is Casper mattresses. So this episode of the pen attic is brought to you by our friends at Casper. Casper are the company focused on sleep and they're dedicated to making you exceptionally comfortable one night at a time. You spend a third of your life sleeping. If you spend a third of your life doing anything like Jesse repairing fountain pens, you want to make sure it's the best it can possibly be. And that's why you need Casper. Casper mattresses are perfectly designed for humans with engineering to soothe and support your natural geometry. It's got all the right support in all the right places. So what goes into making a Casper mattress so comfortable? I'm glad you asked Jesse. They combine multiple supportive memory foams for a quality mattress with just the right sink and bounce. They're designed and developed in the U S and their breathable designs helps to regulate your body temperature throughout the night with over 20,000 reviews and an average of rating of 4.8 stars. Casper is very quickly becoming the internet's favorite mattress. You can be sure of your purchase with Casper's 100 night risk-free sleep on a trial. They deliver directly to your door. And if you don't love it, they have a hassle-free return policy. So like I always talk about Jesse, when we talk about Casper mattresses is ours, Casper is actually in our guest room. So I don't sleep on there a lot unless I, you know, anger, anger the missus and I get relegated to the room. And I'm proud to say that hasn't happened in a while, but it's actually getting hot here in Georgia. And our Casper mattress is cooler than our regular mattress on our bed. I need to switch those one day. I don't know if it would actually fit, but I might need to get in a little bit of trouble just so I can go sleep on the nice, cool Casper mattress in our 90 degree weather and a hundred percent heat. So I don't know how you deal with that. So I'll work on getting in trouble so I can go, I can go hang out with, with my Casper in the, in the guest bedroom. So you can get, you can get $50 towards select mattresses by visiting casper.com slash pen addict and using the code pen addict checkout terms and conditions apply. Thank you so much to Casper and we appreciate their support of the pen addict podcast. All right, Ms. Esther Brooke, I gotta, I gotta understand how the first Esther Brooks came into your hands and subsequently why they never left them.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Okay. So, uh, I said that I was going through, um, pens that were broken up and usually in bins and, um, you know, you pull your hands back out and they're all dusty and old ink and stuff. Uh, often I would find Esther Brooks there back in their heyday, they were everywhere. And I believe that the generation, uh, before me really looks at them like, you know, we would a big crystal. Why would you fix that up?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. They were manufactured in the millions, right? I mean, yes. Yeah.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah. They were everywhere and they were, um, dependable, but cheap and pretty too. Mm-hmm. But because they were everywhere and because people didn't look at them as something to, uh, treasure, they are, they were everywhere that I looked. So it was easy to find them. I could get them inexpensively. And, um, once I figured out the insides of them, they were super easy to fix. And, um, I don't know. I think that, um, the colors also got me because once they're polished up, they're just amazingly beautiful.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' They really are.

'''Jessica Coles:''' And then when I was at the DC show, um, actually the last one that we were at together, um, I came across a nib testing station and, uh, I, I saw that and stupidly passed it by, um, went to, to sleep that night thinking about it. And I don't know, halfway through the night, just inspiration came to me of that's exactly how I want to approach people with selling these because I could take them through the process of knowing what they like and then pushing themselves a little bit to try something that is new, but then settling on something that's comfortable and it's all in a vintage setting. So it could, you know, people could get over their fear of vintage with just being able to test those out.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right.

'''Jessica Coles:''' So I got up as early as I possibly could and went down there with the cash in hand and the gentleman that was selling it didn't show up until noon that day. Oh no.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And probably because he couldn't get a table.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, no.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Did I say that out loud?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Oh, I will never forget your face at the show. I've never seen it so red.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right. Sorry about that. Okay.



== Estabrook Pens ==


'''Jessica Coles:''' But, um, yeah, I, I was just on pins and needles waiting for him to come back and, uh, got it. And I don't know, everything just opened up there. I knew what I wanted to do.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Um, so what I find the most fascinating, what draws you in with Estabrook is the colors for me, the barrel colors, but what sells the Estabrook and what's really like the key, I think, to the brand as a, as a popular vintage brand are those nibs, right? How many, do you have any clue? Like the total number of nibs that they created? I mean, it's like, it's hundreds, right? It's like a

'''Jessica Coles:''' couple hundred or more. Well, um, in the 1800s, they were the leaders in making dip nibs. Okay. And they have hundreds of those. Um, they had the numbering system, but you could buy all kinds and they were making them also specific for various, um, uh, career types, um, judges, probate, um, teachers, students, um, everything in between. And when fountain pens started becoming popular in the 1930s, maybe it could have been a little bit earlier, but as far as I know, it was the early 1930s, they went and, uh, transferred their knowledge of all of those nib types into, uh, fountain pen nibs. And since their specialty was the different types of nibs, they pulled that in with them and wonderfully, I think made them in units so that you could easily change them out into anything you wanted. And with fountain pen nibs, about 40 are the most common ones, but there's all kinds of others. And there's some that you only see a couple of times in your life, even if you're searching for

'''Brad Dowdy:''' them and they're just mythical because they're so rare. So someone like myself who likes a very firm, very fine nib, there's something for me. Right. And then someone who likes a wider, wetter nib, there's something for them too. Right. And these are all swappable in and out of different barrels. I guess they're not totally universal, right? Or are they mostly?

'''Jessica Coles:''' They are actually. Okay. Um, any of their nibs fit on almost any of their units. Um, it's amazing.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. That's crazy. So if you're putting together the Jesse Esther Brook, what are you picking for

'''Jessica Coles:''' your barrel and what are you picking for your nib and why? Okay. Um, so I enjoy some of the, uh, less common Esther Brooks, um, like the deluxe model or the, um, even the CX 100, uh, that are harder to find, but they look a little more, um, striking. They make you look a couple of times, uh, instead of just glancing over them. But I also like the J and LJ models because when they are polished, it,

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I guess the word is shit toyance. My least favorite word on the, on the planet. Yes. Thank you for that. There's, there's other words. I'm just kidding. There are. There are. I just, I like to have fun with that one, but yes, they, it's like this shiny shimmery effect and it's this depth that you just can't really focus on, but it's there. Like you see this weird depth in the pen and it looks beautiful.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Absolutely. And it, you can turn it and it distracts you terribly. And, uh, they're just gorgeous, but I have a dark Brown or it's called root beer, um, in LJ and J, which LJ is just the slimmer version of the J. Um, I use those all the time. And one of my favorite nibs is 9788, which is a medium flexible, but it's also getting very rare and hard to find right now. And I also like a very extra fine point, um, with a 2550. It's firmer and it's, uh, an incredibly smooth, fine point.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I want to say, I, I should have looked at the nibs that I have before I talked to you, but 2550 sounds familiar as long as it's not some super rare one that I'm making up. It seems like that might be one that I have. Nope. It's not super rare. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I have 2550. Um, is there something in like the Estherbrook vintage world that would be like your perfect pen that you don't own? Like, is there some magic Estherbrook out there that, you know, one of these days you hope to

'''Jessica Coles:''' own one of? Yeah. Um, I would love to get into the cracked ice. Ah, nice. I was gonna say,

'''Brad Dowdy:''' maybe you don't want to say it because then someone, you know, will see it and buy it and then like try to sell it to you for a higher price. No, that's already happened. I think I've, I think I've seen pictures of those cracked ice. Were they, was one of them yellow?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah, there's yellow and there's a beautiful blue one. And, um, I have the burgundy it's, I it's Moroccan red and I have a set of those and they're gorgeous. Um, Nick found those for me. Oh, nice. Uh, so those are ones that I keep my eye open for, but they're quite a bit more expensive than the, uh, everyday Estherbrooks, but also I adore the pastel pens, the purse pens.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. So those are the little tiny ones. I've been tempted. I I'm starting to see some of those recently and I've been tempted because I like smaller pens. One of the reasons why I like Estherbrook because they're not a necessarily like a huge big body pen. Um, I mean, I like them for the nibs mostly, but they feel really, really good in my hand. Like I enjoy writing with an Estherbrook more than just like a common, uh, vintage pen, like a Parker 51 or a Parker vacuumatic. They fit my hand and feel a little bit better. And then I get the bonus of having like a really great nib. That's kind of almost tailor-made to me, you know, cause I have so much choice to that. So for people who aren't aware of, you know, Estherbrooks and they walk up to your table, what's, can you give me like a basic general starter price range? If you want to put together a pen barrel and a reasonably common nib to get like a really good restored, restored by Jesse hashtag, um, Estherbrook pen at a pen show.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, um, yeah, I have a base price with the pens. Um, and I, I sell them for $45 and it, it comes with one of the more standard nibs, the 1000 series. So that gets you medium, fine, medium, fine, or extra fine. Um, and then I credit you $5 towards the cost of any of the other nibs. Um, I have all of the nibs priced based on, uh, availability and demand that's out there. So of course the flex nibs are wildly in



== Nib Prices ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' demand right now. Yes. So give me a price on that. What's, what's a high-end Estherbrook rare Estherbrook nib go for? That's actually obtainable. Not like, not something that there's only a couple of, but something that's out there, but just not as much as before. Yeah. The, the ones that aren't

'''Jessica Coles:''' made out of unobtainium. Right. Uh, so I think the most expensive nib that I typically sell is, um, an $85 nib and that's the, um, the extra fine flexible nib. Yeah. That sounds actually pretty nice.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It is. You know, if you're getting something cool like that, it's still cheaper than a gold nib and you might get more enjoyment and more variety out of something like that. Yeah. You don't have to

'''Jessica Coles:''' be scared to use it because if you, I mean, worse comes to worse, if you ruin the nib, then all you

'''Brad Dowdy:''' have to do is buy that. Yeah. You don't have to rebuy the whole pen. Exactly. So help our listeners out for a minute. Um, the, the question I get probably the most often is how do I know I'm getting a good vintage pen? Like I'm scared to go, you know, dabble in the vintage pen world. I don't know what I'm getting, but I look at these pens and they're beautiful and I want to try them. I don't know where to start and I don't know if I'm getting a good one. So do you have any tips to like, you know, guide first time buyers into vintage pens that they should look for?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah. Well, first thing come to my table.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes, please.

'''Jessica Coles:''' And you know, I, I let people try out all the different nibs so that helps to become more comfortable with what a vintage nib feels like. Usually vintage dealers don't let you test the nibs before you're just about ready to buy it. So that's a tough thing. Right. But what you can do to find somebody that is trustworthy is to look for, um, uh, stores or individuals that are respected in the community that they love talking about all kinds of, uh, background about their pens. Um, people who, uh, have nice looking setups as well. Um, and I mean by that, that they've put care into it, uh, and I think that, um, you just need to look for people who really care about what they're doing. Um, those are the people who will make anything right within reason. I mean, you can't be one of those people that demands all kinds of stuff from them, but, uh, you know, somebody who reputation matters in the pen world. It's such a small group that, um, a bad, a bad sale is heard about. Yes. So, you know, just look for somebody who, uh, really knows about them and is trusted and then talk to them, let them know what, uh, like where you stand in vintage pens. If you have no idea what you're talking about, go ahead and tell them. They're not going to try and fleece you. Right. Um, they love getting people into vintage. Um, but yeah, just get involved in the community and then you'll quickly find, I think, who you can trust.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I always tell people who are looking for vintage pens and they're talking to me before a pen show that I'm going to be at, I'm like, come find me. Like, and I will tell you, I will point you out, you know, go to this table, go to this table, go to this table and kind of, you know, I'm more than happy to do that. Um, at pen shows and, you know, I'll always send people to you. And if you don't have it, you know, the people who to send people to, you know, this is not like a competition between all the vendors and stuff. Like you obviously want to sell a pen, but if you know, someone has something that you don't carry in there, it's really good. You're going to, you're not going to hesitate to send someone over to their, their direction.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Absolutely. Cause I know that they do the same with me.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. Right. So you, do you restore all the pens you sell?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah, I do. I either, um, I have a couple of people that I trust their work and if I buy a batch from them that they've already restored, then I will just thoroughly test them.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Sure.

'''Jessica Coles:''' But any that are restored, uh, through me have been restored by me.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Gotcha. Gotcha. So you'll find some vintage vendors. That's the case where everything's restored. And then on the other end of the spectrum, you'll find it where there's none restored and you can generally visually tell the difference, right? Like kind of like, kind of like you were saying, you know, someone set up that is neat and organized and displayed and priced. They've gone through and validated that all these pens are in good working shape where they're, they restored them, someone else restored them, or they're essentially new. And then you'll go to a table where it's a little bit more spread out, more of a hunt for you. And you, you, you uncap a pen and there's dried ink on the nib. Like there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but you also know that that pen hasn't been tested or restored by that person thereby selling it in on an as is basis. And those are two different kinds of purchases you need to be aware of.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Absolutely. And you know, there's some pens out there that are so delicate or so rare that, most dealers or restorers just won't touch them. They'll just sell them as is because there's, you never know what you're going to get when you start restoring a pen.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yep. It could crumble in your hands as you're opening it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I've had that happen. Yeah, for sure. And I've seen, I've seen accidents happen on tables where it's like someone will pick something up and then have like an oops on there. Yeah, it happens, you know. I know. Not a big deal. So what resources do you use? Like when you're shopping for pens besides pen shows, I imagine you do pretty good business on, on both sides of the table at pen shows. And you mentioned eBay earlier. Are there other resources for people looking to shop for vintage pens that they can feel, feel comfortable in buying from?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah. So other than those two, the best way to look for them is through word of mouth. I think many of my purchases, I started with eBay and at pen shows and I've moved on towards, you know, antique shows, not usually stores, but antique shows, um, estate sales, uh, dealer to dealer purchases. And those are not nearly as, uh, accessible to people who are just wanting to buy one or two. Um, those are places where you buy, you know, a box or a bag of them for a certain price. Um, I think that eBay can be a great place. Uh, there's some very trusted people on there. Uh, as long as they have a good record and they've sold plenty of other vintage pens, then I think it can be usually trustworthy as long as they accept, um, either returns or they'll work with you afterwards. Right. Uh, and eBay really protects you, I think, but you just do, you don't exactly know what you're going to get when you go through eBay. Sure. But those are ways that you can protect yourself there.



== Pen Shows ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Okay. And you did mention community. I'll have all of Jesse's, uh, um, information where you can get her on social media and in the show notes here. So you can ask her any questions you have about, about pens and Esther Brooks and vintage pens and repairs in general. And, you know, you can ask myself, uh, as well, and we'll, we'll more than happy to guide you in the right direction and, and answer any questions you have. As a matter of fact, I'll just automatically forward, uh, all of my emails would contain the word vintage over to you. Is that okay? That's absolutely wonderful. I'll set up, set up a rule for that. Um, on the repair front, if anyone's wanting to get started in repairing vintage pens, do you, uh, can you give us a couple of little quick tips? Like what are the, some of the mistakes you, you realized early that were actually like easy things like that you, you didn't catch right up front? Are there any like one or two little things that, uh, are good guidelines for beginning pen repairs?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, um, the very most important thing to remember is take your time. If you rush it, most likely you're going to break something and, uh, in a way that can't be fixed. Um, and also if you get frustrated with it, put it down and walk away.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Cause they, yeah, these are 80 and a hundred year old items we're dealing with here, right?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yep. Yeah. And it's, it'll last another couple days if you need to walk away, it'll be fine.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So this sounds like I would be a terrible pen repair person.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, you know, you learn your, you learn it very quickly because, uh, they say that the cost of pen school is broken pens.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes. Yeah. That makes sense.

'''Jessica Coles:''' You know, there's lots of information out there. Um, I just learned by, uh, talking to a whole bunch of people and YouTube wasn't really part of it. Um, it was more figuring it out myself, um, repair books that were made for the, um, people repairing those pens, um, and talking to a lot of people.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Very cool. Very cool. So before, before we get into a big batch of random questions, you were just at the St. Louis pen show and my not co business partner, Jeff was there, but I haven't got to talk to him much about the show. And since it was a new show, um, I kind of want to get your feedback on that show. If you can kind of give us a big picture overview for those of us who weren't able to make it and might want to consider that show for next year, what were your thoughts on just St. Louis as a whole?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, it was very nice to hang out with Jeff.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Are you sure? You're just saying that?

'''Jessica Coles:''' He was, he's quite a character and brings a lot of, um, interest to conversations.

'''Jessica Coles:''' He seems to be a very great guy.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' He is, he is a good guy, but he is, he's definitely Jeff.

'''Jessica Coles:''' He definitely has his quirks.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And that's why we love him.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Um, the show itself was, I thought it was a great show. Um, you know, it's, it, it had its small issues, but they were small and they were paid attention to.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Sure.

'''Jessica Coles:''' And people worked on making those right instead of ignoring them or sweeping them away.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Nice.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Uh, the weather in St. Louis was stupidly hot and I don't think I've ever felt something as humid as that. And, uh, we almost had a tornado one night.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh, wow.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' See, I haven't heard any of this yet, so I'm glad I asked you.

'''Jessica Coles:''' We were all sitting in, um, fuzzy tacos. It's quite a, quite a name. Nice. And, um, uh, the, I think it was Anna and Bob, um, her husband and my daughter.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up. Okay. I'm Anna's husband. Let's get that clear.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Oh, um, no, but see, um, you were absent. Oh, okay. So she had to bring her other husband.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Gotcha.

'''Jessica Coles:''' And, uh, okay. So we were sitting at fuzzy tacos and the wind started up. Um, it had been totally clear and hot and still go inside and 10 minutes later, plants are blowing horizontally. Oh my gosh. Um, a, uh, chair or a table from outside slammed against the glass window. People were running as fast as they could into, uh, stores so that they could get out of this. And it was, I mean, I'm used to, I'm used to, um, that kind of weather. Sure. Sure. I've spent plenty of time in Kansas, but it was, um, a very sudden and very, uh, um, there was a lot of wind. Very angry wind. Yeah. Um, but it was a great place because you could access all kinds of different restaurants without even leaving, um, a building. A lot of them were attached.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Okay, cool. So tornadoes aside, uh, you, you would add that to the list if the opportunity came to, to make it back to St. Louis. Uh, that would be on the list.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Cool. There were a lot of people that were very interested and getting into pens for the first time.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Good, good. I like to see that. Um, you know, I know they put a lot of work into getting that show up and running. So, um, I'm glad it was a success. So I got some, some random questions, some, uh, podcast talk for you. And I even have a little ask Jesse segment that some of your, your good friends pose questions for. But first I want to talk about one of our other wonderful friends at Pen Chalet. So this episode of the Pen Addict is brought to you by Pen Chalet. They sell authentic, amazing roller balls, fountain pens, ballpoints, mechanical pencils, and so much more. They have all your favorite brands like Monteverde, Pelican, Lamy, Pilot, Namiki, Sailor, and Kaweco. And are, of course, an authorized dealer of all these brands. They're very fast and very reliable with their customer service. They run special discounts twice a month, including closeout specials every two weeks. Always adding new styles of pens every month. And as well as all the brands I mentioned earlier, Pen Chalet sells limited edition pens and all the accessories you ever need. Like carrying cases, pen holders, refills, fountain pen converters, and so much more. They have free shipping on orders over $50 in the United States. And also ship internationally with very reasonable shipping rates. Pen Chalet has low prices on high quality pens and offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee. So go to PenChalet.com. Click on the podcast link at the top of the website. Enter the password PenAddict for this week's special offer. And to get the code, you need to save 10% on anything at Pen Chalet. So let me tell you, Jesse. I usually don't hit the link until Myke reads the ad. But since I'm reading the ad, I need to take a look ahead of time. And like Ron always manages to do, he comes up with something pretty great. In this case, two things pretty great. Number one is the Platinum 3776 Nice Lavonde fountain pen, which was the purple and rose gold fountain pen. I can't tell you the prices. Y'all need to go click on the link, find these prices yourself, and get the 10% off. But I haven't seen it for as low as what Ron's selling it for right now, this pen. And I know it was super popular. So it's a pretty amazing price.

'''Jessica Coles:''' It's a gorgeous pen too. I have one.



== Aurora Optima Flex ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' And then on top of that, I did a double take at the price of the Aurora Optima Flex fountain pen. So Ron has, how many colors are out now? It looks like five colors are out. Now green, gray, light blue, orange, and yellow. I actually prefer the Optima barrel over the 88 barrel, the flat top style for the Aurora Optima. I really did double take on this price when I saw it. After all the discounts and codes you get by entering the code PENADDICT at checkout at penchalet.com. It's kind of nuts. Like I don't even know what to think about what Ron's doing here. But I'm glad he is doing it for the PENADDICT listeners. And I really appreciate everything he does for the show. So thanks so much to Pen Chalet for sponsoring Relay FM and the Pen Addict. So besides Esther Brook, Jesse, you know, that's kind of your niche, what you're known for. What other vintage pens do you enjoy either using or repairing or selling? Do you have any other favorites?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, I like restoring button fillers of all kinds. I've been into glass nibbed fountain pens lately where they actually have an ink reservoir inside and they're glass nibbed. Those are a lot of fun.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Nice.

'''Jessica Coles:''' And I love repairing vacuumatics.

'''Jessica Coles:''' The Parker 51s aren't necessarily my area, but I think they're great pens. And I love just finding random pens. Anything that's cute or beautiful or tiny or eye-catching in some way. And repairing those. It's just fun because, you know, it's an original most likely. There's probably nothing else like it out there. But to be able to save those pens and give them another life, I love it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' One of the things I found interesting in my journey through fountain pens and learning more about vintage pens were a lot of these companies had sub-brands and lower-priced value brands that ended up making some of the most pretty pens. Yeah. That were, you know, compared to like their mainline brands, they're like sometimes they experiment a little bit more and they'd make these really neat looking materials and designs for pens. And you can still get them at like the lower cost. It's still kind of built into their current pricing. So, yeah, I think it's kind of neat to just kind of play around at some of these vintage pen tables and find some of these off-brands.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah. And I love looking for the tiniest pens I can find. Although usually Ralph Reyes is the one that snatches up most of those.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.

'''Jessica Coles:''' They're just amazing. Little Peter Pan pens.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep. They're really cool. What about modern pens? Do you get into modern pens at all?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Oh, yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.



== Lamy Pens ==


'''Jessica Coles:''' I have plenty of those. One of the biggest things that I like in purchasing is if there's several different colors. So, I have my collection of Lamy's and Twisby's that are all the rainbow. But I don't know. I love writing with, I think actually my favorite nib right now is the Franklin Kristoff sig nibs. And yeah, that has all of its own story that I think we can talk about later on.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, for sure.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Goodness, those things are just gorgeous to write with.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' They're glorious. Glorious. So, speaking of writing, you actually picked up a little side writing gig I noticed. This like hit me like, I don't know, what, a couple months ago you started writing for Ana at the Well Appointed Desk. How's that going?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Oh, it's great. Ana and I have just hit it off completely with each other. We were comparing our pens the other day and opened up our pen cases and two-thirds of the pens were identical. So, we had to be careful not to get the other one's pen case.

'''Jessica Coles:''' But she and I were talking online once and I told her excitedly that I'd just put up my first pen review. And it was actually the Keras Customs Reactor series. And she said, well, how'd you like doing it? And I said, it was a lot of fun. And she said, well, I'm always, I need right now another writer. So, would you be interested in maybe doing a little bit of that? And yeah, that's what started it off. And it's been so much fun. I don't always get to do a lot of writing up of things. But, you know, getting to physically use those items and then tell people how I enjoyed it or how it made me feel, it's a blast. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. That's super cool. That's really cool. I love seeing that. And I love the crew that Ana has put together over there with you and Laura and Tina. And I don't know if I'm missing anyone. But I always... No, right now it's that.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I love reading all y'all's stuff. You had another project come to an end recently, though. And I want to make sure we talked about that. So, you were part of the BYOB podcast, which was a beloved podcast in our little niche community. You had sometimes upwards of eight or more people on a podcast at the same time talking about all the craziness that we get into. So, why don't you tell me a little bit about how that started because you were there in the beginning. And then what led to y'all not doing it anymore?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, in the beginning, it was a few of us that were talking about how fun it is after a pen show when we all get to sit around and talk and be let loose a bit in the bar afterwards.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.

'''Jessica Coles:''' And show off our pens and talk about what happened. And we were saying that it was tough that none of us would be together at any pen show that we could think of. But then we thought, why don't we just hang out through Skype or something and just chat with each other? We could do that. And so, we all got on. It ended up being Discord. But we all got on one night and one person said, you know, some people couldn't make it. So, do you mind if I record it and they can listen to it later and have fun that way? So, yeah, that happened. And that ended up being episode zero.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Wow. That's cool.

'''Jessica Coles:''' So, yes, there was absolutely no planning, no real organization at the beginning. And it was just thrown together. And it was really meant to have that wild kind of feel of everybody excited and loving pens and just wanting to talk about it. So, that's how everything started. And then, you know, as we were going, it's really difficult to coordinate eight people's schedules.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It's insane. I mean, yeah. Every week. It's insane. It's totally crazy. But, yeah.

'''Jessica Coles:''' It is. And we made do with it for quite a while. And then we started kind of going into different projects as well, like doing interviews with people and going to the pen shows and recording there. And still doing all of the regular episodes and doing the jelly bean episodes where we were interviewing each other. And then we had our website as well where we were starting to put up reviews. And it just seemed like we had so many little projects. And everybody loved all of them. But there was no way we could keep up all of those. Yeah. And we talked about it for a long time. And it was a very – it was very heavy. Yeah. Because we all knew that it just wasn't sustainable that way.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Yeah.

'''Jessica Coles:''' So, we talked a lot about kind of breaking it into smaller chunks and keeping under the BYOB name. But it ended up not making sense that way. So, we have different projects that are starting out there. Michael came out with a podcast that isn't related to Pens and Stationery, but it's incredibly entertaining.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep. So, we'll link to that in the show notes. Thank you for reminding. Hypothetical, I believe, is the name.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Hyper – yeah. Hyper – yeah. What you said.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I think.

'''Jessica Coles:''' So, he's questioning different guests about just hypothetical situations that they'd be in and how they'd react. So, it's a good way to get into people's brains a little bit. So, instead of splitting off the BYOB name into different activities, we just decided to retire that project and then start up what we needed to after.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Well, cool. Well, I was certainly enjoyed. I made two guest appearances on the BYOB podcast. I had a blast every time. And I mean, like we're all friends in real life. So, it's easy to just, you know, hop online and chat with your friends. And I certainly enjoyed it. And, you know, I wish the best to everyone in their new future project. I think what was cool about this project is even though this one came to an end, everyone got pretty excited about doing their own things. And you're starting to see, like, those wheels, you know, starting to turn and these other projects coming out. And anytime there's, like, you know, more creators and more sharing of information in our community, I'm 100% for. So, you know, the end of BYOB, it's bringing about more stuff from all the individuals that were part of it, right?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah. And actually, I should mention a couple of the other things that were happening. Evgeny has some stuff that he's recorded on YouTube. And Sarah has some stuff going on, I think, on YouTube, but also on Twitch. Yep. And Ralph, you know, everybody knows about Ralph's nibs, I think. Right, right. And those have really just taken off. Yeah. And, you know, he's even crazier about that stuff than I am with getting into vintage pens very quickly. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So what's your secret project?

'''Jessica Coles:''' I am working on a thing on Twitch with Michael where we're going to be doing, you know, really digging into the stationary world and trying to find stuff that people don't usually come across and bringing it to light. Oh, cool. And introducing people more and more to the little sections that split off of the pen world.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Nice, nice. I actually was not expecting an answer for that. It was a lovely answer. I love it. I can't wait to see that because…

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, there you go.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'm a big Twitch fan and, you know, I'm getting my feet wet on that platform right now. And I think it's a very, very good and useful platform. So we'll talk about that more as y'all get going with that. So, yeah, can't wait to see that. All right. So some of your and I friends had a few questions for you. One is from Andrew who was also on the BYOB podcast with me on my first appearance. I don't think he was on the second one, but Mr…

'''Jessica Coles:''' He was also a moderator for us.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes, yes. So he had a huge list of questions. So I picked a couple. And he wanted to know, are there any other vintage pens that could be brought back into use like the Estabrook ballpoints through 3D printing? And I bring this up for obvious reasons, but you and I reviewed an Estabrook ballpoint that used a 3D printed kind of cartridge component. So you could put in a slide and a refill into that. So what do you think about this type of use of 3D printing for vintage pen restoration?

'''Jessica Coles:''' I think it's great. And I think that you do need to let people know that it's not totally all original. Mm-hmm. But Bama Pens is the company that made the Estabrook adapter. Mm-hmm. And he has another one already. It's a Schaefer. I can't remember which models.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, I can't remember either. Yeah.

'''Jessica Coles:''' But he's also working on some more right now. So I think that we will see even more out of him that comes out and makes other things useful again. So don't throw away any of the stuff that you don't think is useful.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, and it's kind of the perfect usage of this 3D printing technology to make old parts for old pens. I mean, we're starting to see more and more of that. And I think that'll just continue on and end up bringing some of these products back to life. I think that's great.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So this next question, I feel like it might be an inside joke that I don't know about, but I'm just going to go for it. Or maybe it's just, you know, Andrew's sense of humor.

'''Jessica Coles:''' No, it's no inside joke that I know of.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Okay. So if you found a woodchuck writing down how much wood he had chucked, what number nib would be in his Estabrook? So what's the proper woodchuck chucking Estabrook nib number?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Well, I'm actually surprised that I was asked this because it seems so obvious that you would have an accounting nib. Since he would be accounting for his wood that he chucked. Nice.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Nice.

'''Jessica Coles:''' So, you know, there's several of them that were thought of as accounting nibs, but, you know, 2556. Let's go with that one. Gotcha. Gotcha.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And then from Anna, not your Anna, but the Incantadora Anna, who is also a podcaster. I love all these podcasters out in the wild now. So a few ink and pen related questions for you. What is your absolute favorite and least favorite inks?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Okay. So if anybody doesn't know already, I am obsessed. It's terrible. With inks. And my favorite ink sometimes changes even a couple times during the day. Now, currently, my favorites are Mont Blanc Swan. It's a very strange color. And then Califolio. I think it's Bourgenet. Okay. I think I've said that right.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I know which one you're talking about.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah, it's kind of a smoky, purplish, burgundy. And Franklin Kristoff Emerald 357.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Nice. Nice. Yeah.

'''Jessica Coles:''' And then least favorite? Favorite? Oh, I have a bunch of that are least favorites. But the Bay State Blue wins out that one. Just because I wish it was different.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' But it'll kill all your vintage pens, won't it?

'''Jessica Coles:''' Oh, please don't do that. I will come take away your vintage pens if you threaten that.



== Vintage Pens ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' So, I'm going to jump to her third question since this is very related to it. What inks do you approve for use in your vintage Estabrooks?

'''Jessica Coles:''' So, Waterman is always my very favorite for those. But I say anytime there's been a company that's been around for a good while,

'''Jessica Coles:''' you know, Pilot, Sailor, Jay Herban, Aurora, Schaefer, any of those companies that have been around quite a while and have had to fix pens if their ink ruins them. Yep. I will say with Parker, that's why they pulled the Sapphire, the Parker Penman Sapphire.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, that whole lineup of inks.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yep. Yeah. So, yeah, anybody who's been around the block several times and knows what it can do to pens.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep. Those pen manufacturer brands always tend to be the safest because exactly like you said, they're not going to make something that's going to cause them more work on their own pens. So, they've done a good job with that. So, do you have a Grail ink or a Grail pen that you would want to add to your collection one day?

'''Jessica Coles:''' See, Grail is so final.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Totally. I'm with you.



== Ink Brands ==


'''Jessica Coles:''' But I have some that I'm currently trying to get, like Athena Eternal Blue is the one that I'm currently obsessed with trying to get.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Ah, okay.

'''Jessica Coles:''' And then my pen, I'm currently drooling over the kumbu. Yeah. Which is the funniest word ever.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It's amazing.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah, it is. I can't say it in front of my kids. I know. Because they'll die laughing. But, you know, I can't ever have a Grail pen because that would be, that means it's the end. The end. That's right. And I can't do that.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'm with you. I'm with you on that. So, yeah. But I do, I actually, I bit the bullet and I do have a kumbu heading my way. So, we'll talk, I don't have it in yet. So, we'll talk about that in future episodes. See how I enjoy it. See how I enjoy it. So, we appreciate all the questions for Jesse. And I would be remiss if we didn't end this show, Jesse, talking about our good buddy Jim Rouse of Franklin Kristoff. For those who don't know, for those who are just catching this episode for the first time when we publish, Jim passed away at the Miami Pen Show this past Sunday. And it's a massive loss for his family and for our community. Like, I feel very selfish saying, like, I feel bad that, you know, we lost Jim knowing that, you know, I'm not one of his family members. But all of us in the community felt like Jim's family members because that's the type of person Jim was.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' He was an important part of the community. He was so well-respected. It's hard to grasp, like, that the next Pen Show I go to in a couple weeks, Jim's not going to be there. And it's going to hit me hard again. It hit me hard when the news hit Sunday night. I had a really rough Sunday night. I had a really rough Monday morning until I got, you know, I got up enough nerve to sit in front of a camera and invite people to come in and talk about Jim and allow me to share some of my good memories of Jim on Twitch. And, you know, it helps to be able to communicate to people, you know, during times of loss. And all of us are mostly friends through the Internet and only see each other a couple times a year. So it was nice to be able to chat with other people about the loss of Jim. And you told me something, Jesse, before we started, that you kind of had this tradition at Pen Shows. And would you mind sharing that with us? Yeah.

'''Jessica Coles:''' I actually had this tradition because I had to use it as a limit to myself.

'''Jessica Coles:''' But my first pen show purchase was a Franklin Kristoff pen. And it is absolutely still my favorite. It was a Pocket 66, the antique glass. And I got a signip on that. And I'd never in my life written with a pen that was ground to me and that somebody spent time making it right for me. And I still write with that weekly. Then at other pen shows, I allowed myself to purchase one Franklin Kristoff pen, even though sometimes I went over that.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' As we all do.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Yeah. I especially loved the prototypes, the ones that were made as one-offs. So I would pick up one or more at each pen show and get a different nib on it. And yeah, that's how my Franklin Kristoff obsession started. And now I've got plenty of 45s, and I adore each one of them. But yeah, I had to limit myself. But by, I don't know, after a year of that, Jim knew me very well by my pen orders. And by the time I came to pick it up, he would have it ground and adjusted so that it was just perfect for me. I almost never had to ask him for any other adjustments. It was, he just knew my writing style.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep. And I think you'll find these stories a lot when you hear people that have worked with Jim and have been customers of Franklin Kristoff over the years. I've been friends with the whole Franklin Kristoff family and fans of Jim's work. That's the kind of guy he was. Like, he just knew. And we'll definitely be thinking about him every time we use our pens now with Jim's handiwork on the nibs. And we've had an outpouring of emails and texts and everyone's condolences. So, I appreciate everyone who took the time to reach out. We were lucky enough in the Atlanta pen show to interview Jim at the live show in Atlanta. So, episode 303 of The Pen Addict, I'll put it in the show notes. A bunch of people have gone back and listened to that since Jim's passing. And it's a really good insight on the knowledge and humor and love that is now missing from this community. And he was a one-of-a-kind, that's for sure. And I love him and I'll miss the heck out of him. And DC won't be the same, but I'll be sure to raise a glass of Coke to him in DC. So, I'm sure I won't be alone in that. So, rest in peace, buddy. We love you. And on that note, Jesse, I don't want to end it on a somber note, but I appreciate you being on. It was so much fun. You are so wonderful to talk to. You have so much to offer to this community. And-

'''Jessica Coles:''' Thank you very much, Brad. I appreciate all of it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Absolutely, absolutely. And to people everywhere. So, why don't you real quick, tell people where they can find you online. And I'll link all this in the show notes, but where can people find you right now?

'''Jessica Coles:''' I have vintagepenshop.com. That's my website where I do sell stuff. I'm on Twitter at jessierain underscore Kohl's and write for Well Appointed Desk. I'm on Instagram, jessierain23. And so, you can reach me at any of those.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Awesome. Awesome. And you can- Go ahead.

'''Jessica Coles:''' No, go ahead, Brad.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' No, I was going to say, you'll bet I'll be reaching out to you. You know that's a fact.

'''Jessica Coles:''' I'm very glad. Where can we find you?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh, you can find me. Look at you. You're a professional. I wasn't even going to do it. Like, that has totally escaped my memory. But you can find me on Twitter at Dowdyism, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M, on Instagram and Twitch at PenAddict and online at PenAddict.com, where all the writing is. And you can find the show notes for this episode at relay.fm slash PenAddict slash 317. And until next time, say goodbye, Jessie.

'''Jessica Coles:''' Goodbye, Jessie. Goodbye, Jessie.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Goodbye, Jessie. Goodbye, Jessie.

[[Category:Podcast Transcripts]]
[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]