Editing The Pen Addict 111/transcript

{{Infobox podcast transcript
| name            = The Pen Addict
| number          = 111
| title           = A Podcast Divided
| date            = June 17th, 2014
| hosts           = [[Brad Dowdy]]<br>
[[Myke Hurley]]
| guests          = [[Josh Ginter]]
| link            = [https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/111 Episode 111]
| audiolink       = [https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/thepenaddict/penaddict-111.mp3 Audio Episode 111]
| length          = 68
}}

== The Pen Addict ==


'''Myke Hurley:''' Hello and welcome to episode 111 of The Pen Addict podcast on 5x5. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined, as I always am, by The Pen Addict himself, Mr. Brad Dowdy.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' What's up, Myke? Hey, buddy. How are you, sir?

'''Myke Hurley:''' I'm very well, thank you. How are you?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'm very good and I'm excited about today's show.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Why is that?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I've heaped the pressure on this guy to get him on the show. And we have on today Josh Ginter from The Newsprint, a blog that I am a huge, huge fan of. And I was anxious to get Josh on to talk about all kinds of pen and stationery stuff. What's up, Josh? Hey, Brad. How's it going? Good, man. We are excited to have you today.

'''Josh Ginter:''' I'm super excited to be here. Your words are far, far, far too kind.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' But there haven't been too many blogs I've been more impressed with than yours this year. Oh, thanks a bunch. I really appreciate that. Yeah, which we're going to talk a lot about your blogging exploits and some of the things you are into. And this might be an especially Field Notes heavy episode, which is right up our alley because you're looking forward to it. Yeah, so that'll be cool. So we've got a few bits of follow-up I want to get to real quick. And then we'll get into all things The Newsprint. How's that sound? Sounds great.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right, Myke. So our friends at Scribble Pen.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' We had our first conversation about them last week and, you know, does this pen really exist? Does it work? And, you know, a lot of our listeners had the same concerns we have. You know, basically tell me more about what you're talking about for this pen, what you're pushing. So I sent them an email. And one of it, it kind of came up around one of our followers, Mr. Yippie-Ki-Yay on Twitter, which is just a brilliant name. It's K-I-Yay as in C-A-H-I-E-R, like the notebook.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Is that how you say that?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.



== Scribble Pen ==


'''Myke Hurley:''' I always thought it was Kahir.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, it could be. Just like Moleskine, Moleskine. Yeah. So I like – but I thought the whole diehard Yippie-Ki-Yay part was pretty funny. So he sent us a link saying, hey, here's the photo we're talking about of the girl writing, and you said it's heavily Photoshopped because you were being snooty about your retina MacBook.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' He sent us the Shutterstock image. So he just Googled image search, which we should have done, and it came back. It's just a Shutterstock image that they put the scribble pen in this girl's hand and drew a bunch of, like, children's crayon markers on the paper. So that got me thinking, and I wanted to shoot them an email because they had a general contact email. So this is what I sent them. I said, my name is Brad Dowdy, and I write the blog, The Pen Addict, and record the podcast of the same name. My listeners – my readers, listeners, and myself have a huge amount of questions surrounding the scribble pen that are not answered anywhere in your massive PR push. I'd love to have you respond to these questions via phone or email, and you have an open invitation to address these questions on the podcast. Please let me know. So I just had four little quick questions. I said, number one, can you provide a link to the pen in action? I'd like to see the actual ink output of the scribble ink plus a video of the product in action. Photoshopping a stock photo isn't very reassuring. And I sent them a link to the photo that Yippee-Ki-Yay sent us.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Secondly, I asked, what's the standard line width in millimeters of the scribble ink? It looks gigantic and in no way will it be able to produce the output like the bird drawing on your homepage in its current state. Are there tip nib size options that make this fine of line? Number three, what is the formulation of the ink? I see you mentioned it as water-based. Is it pigmented, permanent, light, fast, archival? What attributes does the ink have? And number four, which was the question I'm most interested in, what other projects have Mark Barker and Robert Hoffman designed and shipped? Those are the names attached to this project, which we didn't talk about last time. But it's in their standard PR document, and those are the names that come up. And just searching online, those guys pretty much don't exist. You know, Mark Barker doesn't come back anything, and Robert Hoffman, some actor. You know, his name is cross-pollinated with an actor in Hollywood who I don't know.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So I sent that on Sunday. I actually did get a response Monday morning. So it says, So what do you think about that response?

'''Myke Hurley:''' There's not really a lot there.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It's a little bit lacking, isn't it?

'''Myke Hurley:''' Especially, there are absolutely no real answers to anything that you've asked.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So this is, yeah, go ahead.

'''Myke Hurley:''' The important parts, like why have you Photoshopped a stock image? Mm-hmm. And who are these people? Mm-hmm. You know, nothing to those.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, nothing. So this seems to happen to us a lot when we start digging in.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, people don't like to be responsive. We're like investigative journalists.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' No, and we shouldn't have to be. No. This is basic. This is like 101 type of stuff. I mean, I'm not being a jerk. Just tell me a little bit of something. You know, help me feel good about spending $150 on this product. Right?

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So I just shot off a quick response because I was nonplussed with Kevin for the Scribble team's response. I said, thanks for the info, Kevin. What day do you expect the video to be available? Can you share a picture of the output now? What will the various tip sizes be? And what other projects have Mark Barker and Robert Hoffman designed and shipped? So that's where we're at right now. I've got no response, and I expect none from this point forward. So we'll see. It's an interesting – what's your take on this pen? Like, Josh, would you use this pen? Like, if you saw this, did you go, ooh, ah, I can write, you know, every color in the world and draw it on my field notes and make them all fancy? Or were you like, what is going on here?

'''Josh Ginter:''' You know, I thought the website looked good. But that's the extent of it. I just – like, your skepticism kind of wore off on me, and I right away thought, like, this is far too good to be true. And if we're living in, you know, the year 2050 already, like, cool. But I just – I don't think so.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I think it's – I mean, they are definitely trying to sell something that's really too good to be true. And if they can deliver on it, great. You know, we're not saying this is – I mean, the term vaporware has been thrown around a lot in my Twitter feed, Myke. And I'm certainly not going there. I mean, this may be a perfectly fine product. And I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt until we see some more, especially until we see some more output. It doesn't sound to me, just in the response that I got, that they're very far along in this at all.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So that's what I got the most out of this. So I don't know why they do this big PR push, and now it's just going to sit here.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah. I mean, did they give a launch?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' No, no. They just said, coming soon on Kickstarter, sign up for our newsletter. That kind of stuff.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, see, that's not –

'''Brad Dowdy:''' But they haven't even figured out the ink yet. And that's kind of important for a pen that writes every color in the world, right? It seems to me that would be like the most important part. Mm-hmm. So skepticism remains. But, you know, benefit of the doubt does too until we see some more. But I don't know that I'm going to get any more.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Who is Kevin?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It's Kevin for the Scribble Team.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Come on. Oh, the Scribble Team.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Kind regards, Kevin for the Scribble Team. He's – yeah. Who knows? That's who replied to my email. So anyway, open invitation to the Scribble Team to come on this podcast or give me a call or give me some real answers. I'd welcome it. But, yeah, I think we're done with that until we see some more reality from this product.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep. What say you – yep. Yeah. I don't want to drag this through the mud, but –

'''Myke Hurley:''' Well, I mean, unless they contact us now, I guess we'll kind of leave it. Oh, sure. And then wonder if we ever see it on Kickstarter.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep. We will definitely be paying attention. So, you know, we talk about these things because this is what the listeners want, you know, and are interested in. So, you know, I try to at least follow up a little bit on it with the actual product manufacturers themselves. So I'll get what I can. And I'll do what I can. So I'll stay on them. But, yeah, we're good.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Cool. Shall – now, we've got a couple of sponsors this week. We also have a bunch more – so much more stuff to talk about. My gosh, yeah. We have a ton more follow up and then we still haven't even started speaking to Josh yet. So shall I talk about our friends at Pen Chalet? Yes, sir. And then we continue from there. How does that sound? Please do. Josh, you get a vote in this. How do you feel?

'''Josh Ginter:''' Oh, I'm looking forward to listening to the Myke Hurley read one of these sponsor things. I'm so excited.



== Pen Chalet ==


'''Myke Hurley:''' Well, Josh, let me tell you about Pen Chalet. Let me tell you about – I love these guys. Let me tell you why I love Pen Chalet. You all know of them by now, surely. They are absolutely fantastic. Pen Chalet, they are the guys that make sure they get you authentic, amazing rollerballs, fountain pens, ballpoints, mechanical pencils, and so much more. They are the one-stop shop for the pen addict in all of us. They have all of your favorite brands like Monteverde, Pelican, Pilot, Namiki, Sailor, and Kaweco, and are, of course, an authorized dealer selling all of them. They run special discounts twice a month, including closeout specials every two weeks. They're always making sure that they're adding new styles of pens all the time. Every single month, you will go to penshalet.com. I'm about to call it Pen Addict. I mean, that is the place for the pen addicts, penshalet.com. You're going to find new stuff there every month because they're making sure that they're going through finding some really cool deals, some really cool stuff, and make sure they're putting it up on the site. As well as all the brands that I mentioned earlier and all the types of pens that they do, pen chalet also sell carrying cases, pen holders, refills, fountain pen converters, and so much more, as well as a bunch of limited edition pens and loads of other pen accessories. You can get free shipping on any order at pen chalet that is over $50 within the continental United States, but they also sell internationally with very reasonable shipping rates. Pen chalet has low prices on high-quality pens and offers a 100% satisfaction guarantee. So go to penshalet.com, that's P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T.com, and use the code PENADDICT to save 10% on your order, or click the podcast link at the top of the website and enter the password PENADDICT for even more savings, as well as your 10% off. So thank you so much to Pen Chalet for sponsoring 5x5 and the Pen Addict.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Awesome. Thank you, Pen Chalet. Now, in your read there, you did it so well, and I must have been snoozing, in their authorized dealer list, is Lamy now in that read? It is not. Because they are now a Lamy authorized dealer, so that's just a new thing.

'''Myke Hurley:''' It's just been added in, so I will never miss it out.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It's a new thing for them, I think just in the past week or so.

'''Myke Hurley:''' That's awesome.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' They now carry Lamy products, so yeah. Shoot, yeah. You can never go wrong with Lamy.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, look, there they are, right there on the page. Yep. So you can go, let me take a look at what we've got here. Fountain Pans.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Vista. Ale Star. Safari. Oh, they have the studio.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Mm-hmm. I think they have the $2,000.

'''Myke Hurley:''' They have the $2,000. Wow, they have the $2,000 for $160?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, that's about right. It's usually like $140 to $160, I think. You get your 10% off? $160 is about right. Yeah.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Wow. Come on, guys, what's happening here? Go to penshella.com. This is where it's happening. Yeah. Sorry. Somebody tweeted to me the other day that they had another Pelican sale, so. Yeah. Always good for a deal on Pelicans at Penshella. That's what we have found there. Yeah, for sure.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' For sure.

'''Myke Hurley:''' All right, carry on, Mr. Brad Dowdy. Yes, sir.



== Nakaya Pen ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' What else do we have? Yeah, this past Sunday was Father's Day, and we got a cool email from our friend Mikey Reak, who is a pen addict listener extraordinaire, one of the many, many pen addict listener extraordinaires. And I just thought this was a really good email, and it kind of gets down to the core of why we do what we do. So I just wanted to read this from him real quick. He says, I wanted to say thank you again to you two. Leading up to Father's Day, I was thinking of what can I get to surprise Dad? What kept coming up in my head were pens, pencils, ink, and paper. Why? Well, after starting to listen to the podcast, I started to get interested in fountain pens, paper, and the like, and my dad took notice. I remember my mom saying that Dad used to collect pens when they were younger, but I didn't realize what pens he had. With my interest growing, he pulled out a few cigar boxes of the pens that he kept over the years and started cleaning them up again. A couple had some dried up ink. He had some Parker 51s, Schaefer's, and Mont Blancs. I've since had a few passed down to me, for which I'm very grateful. The last couple times that I went to visit, we turned wooden pens, ballpoint and fountain together. And the last time he came to visit me, we went pen shopping together at a local shop. Now he works with a fountain pen in his pocket most of the time, and I don't remember him doing that before. It's fun to see him pick up an old hobby that he had years ago. We Skype every week and every now, and then we talk about getting some new inks, or he asks what's happening on your podcast. I've had a good relationship with my dad growing up, but we have a stronger relationship now after starting to listen to the podcast. For that, I can't thank you enough. Thanks for being office, Mikey. How cool is that?

'''Myke Hurley:''' That is very cool.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' That is super cool. I mean, that makes you want to get up in the morning and record a podcast about pens, doesn't it, Myke?

'''Myke Hurley:''' It sure does. Mikey is a friend of all of the shows that we do. He is. He's always got great feedback for us. He does. I'm pleased that he provided the pronunciation of his surname, because I always ruin it, and he always reminds me. So I'm pleased that you did it this time.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, he did it. I think out of all the times I've talked about him, I think I've gotten it right once, like early on. And then for some reason, I just, you know, recessed and went back into butchering it every time. So now every time he emails us, he gives us the phonetic pronunciation of his last name.

'''Myke Hurley:''' But yeah, I still, unfortunately, ignore it. I know. It just happens when you're in the heat of the moment. Thank you, Mr. React. There you go. I did it this time. Brad, did you get any pen-related items for Father's Day?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I did. I did. I am the new owner of another Nakaya.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Oh!

'''Myke Hurley:''' What? What? What? That's incredible.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, so I've been saving this for a future podcast where we'll have a lot more specific pen talk, and we will go through some of the new pens I've gotten recently, including a Nakaya. I worked in a work bonus Father's Day kind of thing going on. So yeah, I have a new Nakaya.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Was this a surprise or did you order it?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I ordered it, for sure. For sure. I got the approval. She's like, what do you want? And I was like, I want this. She's like, okay.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Was that her passing out first?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. No, I do a good job of prep work. Right. So as long as you do your prep work right, the shock and surprise is handled in advance. Hmm.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So anyway.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I'm sorry for ruining the surprise.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Nah. Nah. I put it on Instagram.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Oh, did you?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So it's out there. It's out there, but I haven't talked about it really otherwise.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right. A couple more things. A couple more things real quick. Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of prices of these things, you got this link about the online pen auction that went down, I guess, this weekend.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Right.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So we'll put in a show notes just so people can go see this catalog of this pen auction. We had a follower on Twitter, Chris Gottlieb, in Australia, and there was an auction going on in Paris and it was online and it had like, I don't know, 300 lots of really nice, expensive pens. And he was following along this auction and he started buying stuff. He bought a Visconti Wall Street and another Visconti Ada. And he said, oh, I was trying to get this Nakaya Piccolo and this other Dana Trio pen. And every time he tweeted, he was just like boggling my mind. I was like, I can't believe this is actually happening. And we're having a Twitter conversation about a guy. He basically said, yeah, I was in my bed at 2 a.m. on a laptop following an auction about pens in Paris and buying fountain pens online. And it's just kind of, I was like, man, this is why we do this show also.

'''Myke Hurley:''' It's just so much stuff here on this page.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Isn't there?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. And Josh, I'll have to send you this link. It just goes on and on and on. It's very old, expensive, classic fountain pens. It's pretty amazing. Now, are you a fountain pen guy at all, Josh? I think in reading your site, you're mostly, I don't think you are, right?

'''Josh Ginter:''' Not yet. No, I haven't dove in the way I'd like to, but it's on the to-do list. Don't worry.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' We'll take care of that for you.



== Field Notes ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' I do know what you are into, though. And that's this next thing. I can't wait. The Cole DDC Field Notes Special Edition. Oh, yeah. All right. So what do you guys think about this? What do you think about this, Josh?

'''Josh Ginter:''' You know what? I'm jealous that it's not. It doesn't.

'''Josh Ginter:''' That's what I'm. They look awesome. They're like, they are as Americanized as they get. It's like field notes. It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. And let me say, let me preface this. Josh is Canadian. Oh, yeah. I play. Yeah. And Mr. Hurley is British. And I'm, of course, the American is outnumbered. And I'm sending links about these American USA, USA field notes.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah. But everybody, you know, everyone knows that I'm such a big fan of America.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And field notes are worldwide.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Yeah. I agree. You know what? You guys are, you're lucky to have that. And that's, that, that, that field notes, coal headwear thing that is just gorgeous. And it, it, it epitomizes everything that, that, that field notes brand seems to stand for that Americanized thing. That, that's awesome. I really like that.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I think you're right about that. And I've always enjoyed the, they always seem to sneak in some type of red, white, and blue addition somewhere along the lines. Like they've done the Levi's in the past. And they actually did one, some British, a British company. I'm blanking on now. I wasn't prepared for that. But they did like a really dark blue cover with right, white, and red lettering. And just these, the red, white, and blue colors on these notebooks just always look the best to me. And this one came out really well with the, with the stripes on the front. I thought it looked, it looked super. And what they, they printed 5,000 of them. They're still available. We'll have the link in the show notes. I ordered some. And I know a bunch of the field nuts did.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' But yeah, they look great. And I can't wait to get them in.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Neither can I. I found a way to get them. Yes. I have, I had three packs coming. Oh my God. I just love them. I think they look so amazing. They do. And I couldn't, couldn't help myself.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So they really, they really, really look good. When I saw them, I was, I, I, they, they teased them like a couple of months ago. I don't know, Draplin or something on Instagram or whatever. I knew they were working on it. And then just all of a sudden, here you go. Here's the link. And I'm glad someone tweeted to me so I could get my order in. So that was good. But they're still available. So no worries there. All right. I think it's time to get to Josh, Myke. So we got one more sponsor we want to take care of.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yep. I think that's a good idea. So I want to thank a returning sponsor again this week. That's the fine people over at Huckberry. Huckberry is an online shop and journal that unersed the coolest emerging brands and stories for guys. Huckberry features a variety of unique products like the world's first portable beer keg, knives made from 150 million year old dinosaur bones. Dinosaur bones, Brad.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'm there.

'''Myke Hurley:''' And so much more. Men's Journal named Huckberry one of their favorite online shopping sites. And they've also had positive press in both Outside Magazine and Complex Magazine. Huckberry makes it easy to find exactly what you're looking for by dividing their products into shops like Made in the USA, General Store Essentials, Everyday Carry Essentials, Grooming Essentials, and so much more. These shops are continuously refreshed with new products all the time. So even if you've shopped at Huckberry before, chances are they've probably added more stuff since you've been gone. In their everyday carry essentials store, they have extremely durable pens and all-weather notebooks, so you can always keep them writing come rain or shine. Each of Huckberry's products have a distinctive look to them, combining adventure and style into a collection of high-quality apparel and gear. Many of their products also have free shipping options available. So take a minute to explore Huckberry's brand-new site over at Huckberry.com. And once you sign up for an account, so go over to Huckberry.com, sign up for an account, and you'll see a credits page on your account page. You want to enter the code PENADDICT, and it's going to give you $5 in store credit to spend at Huckberry.com, which is an incredible deal. So go sign up for an account, click the credits button in your account page, enter PENADDICT, and it's going to get you $5 to spend at Huckberry.com. Thank you so much to Huckberry for their support of the PENADDICT and 5x5.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So here's a pro tip, Myke.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Pro tip.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Pro tip. You don't have to have a new account to get the $5 credit. If you have an existing account, go to the credits page, type in PENADDICT, boom, $5 credit. I just did it.

'''Josh Ginter:''' That's a super pro tip, and you've just got yourself $5. Congratulations! You get $5.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, anybody even – yes, that's very right, Brad. Thank you for pointing that out. I say to sign up for a new account if you've never been there before. If you have, just go there, enter it, you'll get it too. Josh, even you'll get it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Absolutely. I've got to try it out. You should. Huckberry is great. My favorite part about Huckberry is the featured items, which those are the short-run items that they offer special discounts on, and they run through about, I don't know, five or six of those a week, and then they refresh them and then bring in a whole new batch of items. So I'm checking in at least once a week to see what all the cool stuff that they have brought in, and it's always really good stuff. So definitely appreciate Huckberry sponsoring the podcast, and I'm a huge fan, obviously. And, yeah, y'all check them out. One more thing, Josh, before we get to you. You've been waiting so patiently.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Oh, all good. I'm enjoying just listening to this live. This is fantastic.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' You're the only other person that gets the live version of the podcast.

'''Nifty:''' Yeah, it's awesome. It's awesome.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' But I have our pin blog of the week, and that is Notebook Stories, notebookstories.com. I love these guys. I love this. Yeah. Yeah, Nifty has done this, and that's the name that she writes under, has written this blog for about as long as I can remember, pretty close to as long as I've written The Pin Addict, and, you know, we have exchanged emails over the years, and she always does a great job, and she really follows the notebook market, like, super close. I learn a lot from reading everything on her blog. And the other thing that she does, Myke, she runs, if you ever see the carnival of pen, pencil, and paper on some of our blog friends' blog, she's the one that put that together the very first time. So she's the organizer behind that. So she's definitely very important to the pen bloggers out there. She does a wonderful job at Notebook Stories, and I implore all of you to check that site out. It's excellent.

'''Josh Ginter:''' She does that Notebook Addict of the Week, correct? Yes. I love those things. They're just like, they bring out such traditional-looking notebooks. They're awesome.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, and it makes you feel good about not having so much stuff in your closet compared to something. Exactly. Exactly. Some of those are really ridiculous, and I'm not one to talk. I mean, mine would look just horrible, too. I mean, just stacks and stacks of notebooks and paper everywhere. But, yeah, I think every Friday she does that, the Notebook Addict of the Week, and that's one of my favorite posts for sure. It's very cool. All right, Mr. Ginter, from the newsprint. So before I get too far, everyone can go to thenewsprint.co, and all of our links to our show notes are at 5by5.tv slash penaddict slash 111, and you can get all the links to this episode. But, Josh, tell us a little bit about the newsprint just from the aspect of why it exists. I mean, what made you say, hey, I'm going to go out there, and I'm going to start writing about most of it, following your blog and reading back through the archives. Most of it was about technology and things like that. That seems to kind of how it gets started. So give us the background on the newsprint and what you're doing there.

'''Josh Ginter:''' I started off, I think I started in the middle of December of last year here, 2013, and I wrote about a lot of that tech stuff, Apple specifically. I really like those iOS apps. And, you know, at the same time, I graduated recently with a history degree. So I'm really – I get into the politics and the economics and the business of things, and I just thought I needed to kind of separate them all from like one to – I didn't want to have all of these major contexts being talked about in one blog. Nobody likes to read all of that in one spot, right? So I split it up, and I thought the newsprint would be kind of a cool way of talking about tech stuff, and it began that way, I guess. That's where it started.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, so at some point during your writing, you had this kind of transition. It was like very digital type of articles. And then you started to sneak in a couple little things. You know, I think that I put a note in the show notes, like one of the first analog type posts you did was a post called, Why I'm Giving Up on Digital Notes. Yeah, exactly. That's right. And then you started down this path where all this analog stuff started creeping into your digitally focused blog. So tell me about how that happened.

'''Josh Ginter:''' You know, I was thinking about this exactly on the drive home from work today. And I think the reason for the switch, there are 1,001 awesome note-taking apps on the App Store for an iPhone. And I'm just – I'm as much an addict of those things as I am with paper these days. And I probably tried 10 to 15 different note-taking apps. And every time I tried a new app, of course, all of my notes end up in about 15 different spots on my phone. And I could never find what I needed when. So I just thought – like I looked at it and I figured what's the most basic stationary form of note-taking I can do so I don't have to do all these transition things all the time. And I thought like pen and paper. So I started doing a pile of research and trying to find what the best pen and paper was to take on the go and to write. And, you know, I stumbled upon the Pen Addict website there for the first time in November to December, January, somewhere in there. I stumbled upon the well-appointed desk. And the immense amount of information, boy, it just kind of sparked something. So I thought I would talk about the fact that I'm giving up on digital notes and that I – and I haven't gone back. You know what? I don't take any notes on my phone anymore. I write everything down. And if I don't have a pen and paper handy, I throw it into my phone and then I put it into my written book later on. And I just – it seems to work great and it fits me a lot better than the old way.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Josh, let me ask you because you said that you were struggling with a bunch of different apps and having your notes in different apps. But what do you do when you come to the end of a notebook?

'''Nifty:''' I guess I index them basically and I just continue on to the next one. Yeah.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I mean, do you ever go back to find your previous notes?

'''Nifty:''' Oh, that way. You know what?

'''Josh Ginter:''' Occasionally I've gone back. I had to come up with a project at work where I was writing out a whole process of creating something. And I ended up having to carry that along. And I'll tell you, that's probably the biggest downfall of analog note-taking, having to carry along three or four different books at once. But at the very least, like I could find it and I could find it quickly because I had indexed things properly and ahead of time. And, you know, better than having to find a note that was in a deleted app and you know what I mean? So.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Have you written about your indexing at all? Because that's really interesting.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Wrote a little bit about it. I think I called it like a hybrid journal idea. I think I'd like to sit down and kind of talk about it or write about it again just because it's evolved so much in the last three or four months. But it's growing and it seems to work. I like the way I'm able to keep track of things going forward. So.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So is this a handwritten index?



== Handwritten Index ==


'''Josh Ginter:''' Yeah. Like more or less, I kind of put a date to every book that I start. So, you know, for example, I'm on 2014-6. So I'm in the sixth book of the year. And then from there, what I do, in case I ever do need to go back and digitally figure out where I'm at or where there was a specific thought back in January or something like that, I put it into my day one app, which is an awesome, awesome journaling app for Mac, iPad, iPhone. And I put a little daily summary at the end of the day and I tell myself, okay, today I wrote three on page 19, 20, 21. And if in the future I ever need to go back, I can find exactly where I'm at. Further then, I have a bit of an index in the back of every book where I kind of state the big ideas and the big things that weren't just random thoughts. They were steps in a process to finish something. Or I put those kind of things in the back of the book and I give out a page number and reference it that way. So that's kind of how I keep track of my written notes personally.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'm sitting here cracking up because you have a serious problem. And this is why I love this show. I'm just nodding my head everything you're saying.

'''Josh Ginter:''' I'm like, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, and dealing with that problem was a lot more difficult than I originally anticipated. So I figured I'd write it all out onto a blog.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, this is what we're all going – this is what we all go through, the people that are into these sorts of things. These are the conversations we have with the voices in our heads or the angel and devil on our shoulders. How are we going to handle our note-taking and how are we going to index it and how are we going to find it and what notebook am I going to use and what pen is going to be good for it?

'''Josh Ginter:''' That's going to be the hardest decision. Every three weeks or so for me, I've got to choose the next field notes book to use. I think that's the most difficult thing ever. But anyway.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, so let's talk about that. Not field notes specifically, but just the quantity that you're writing. I saw where you definitely – you pretty much write like three to four pages a day, you think, in field notes? I saw you mention that in the past.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Yeah, three or four is a little high. Recently, it's been one or two, but three on a good day, especially weekends where I have a little more time to breathe and relax. For sure, I'll get three or four per day. And it's just thoughts more or less. But sometimes there's calculations in there or other little things for work. But more or less, it's just thoughts and statements kind of.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And in the past, you've written about using the bullet journaling system. Do you still do that? I'm sorry, say again? The bullet journal? That system?

'''Josh Ginter:''' Do you still use it? Yeah, I started out with it. And I found that I just didn't use the whole breadth of the whole system. So I kind of – I was looking further at other kind of indexing and organization systems. I stumbled upon Patrick Rowan's website. He's got an awesome – that Dash Plus system. There's also an iOS app, luckily enough. And I started with that. And more or less, it's a to-do list making app, if you will, and system. But there's also a way to incorporate journal ideas where it's actual thoughts. And I really recommend anybody checking that out, that Dash Plus system. It works really good. And that's how what I use, actually. Usually, there are always journal and thought ideas that I have in my book. But every now and then, I start everything with a Dash. And sometimes, I've got a to-do list in the book, too. So that's how I do it. And I really like that system.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Okay. Cool. Now, when you started this blog and you were using – you were starting with these systems and you were capturing your notes in the traditional, non-digital methods. That's right. I saw that you were using the Moleskine products, the Moleskine Kaey and the Moleskine Rollerballs. And you've kind of made the transition into different products, field notes especially, I guess. So how did that transition take place?

'''Josh Ginter:''' You know, I was – my wife and I, we got married last year and we headed out to New York for our honeymoon. Really awesome trip. But it turned out that there was a Moleskine stationary shop right close to our hotel. And I stumbled upon it just in our happenings. And I thought, whoa, like this was kind of the first major time I'd ever thought about paper and really good paper to begin with. So I bought a bunch of these things and it was all I had in the house. So I think that's why Moleskine was the original product to try out. And the other reason is because Moleskine is the – it's all I have available in the area. I – you know, the closest, the field notes or even like Leuchterm and those kind of companies, those kind of products, the closest retailer that I have is maybe 200 kilometers away. And then after that, it's 600 kilometers or a six-hour drive away. So the Moleskine products were actually available and that was kind of the reason for that. But I happened to stumble upon that store that was 600 kilometers away. I was a visiting family, happened to be in the area, remembered that they sold field notebooks and went down, grabbed a pack. And I was – the amount of delight that those products bring and the amount of character that they emit, it just knocks, I feel, knocks Moleskine out of the park. And I haven't turned back since. I think that was the big transition, that taking a chance and driving down to that shop.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I think Myke and I went down that same path, right? I mean you were a heavy Moleskine user, Myke, and still – I think you still incorporate them some. And I was a heavy Moleskine user too really when I started this blog. And then you start to think about, you know, what else is out there and what are these other things? And then you're on a path of no return. Yeah, exactly.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So let's talk about these field notes because I think that's the first time I actually ran into your blog and first time I saw it maybe in my referral notes or something like that. Cool. You did a post on the Drink Local edition. And that was – that's been one of my all-time favorite editions. And so tell me a little bit, you know, you started using field notes. You found them at that store. And now do you have as big a problem as Myke and I have where you have like these vast stashes of field notes just for you to use?

'''Josh Ginter:''' Because my addiction is fairly new, I think. My stacks probably aren't as big as yours. But I'm definitely finding new ways to justify them to my wife every couple weeks. So, yeah, it's growing. You know, ironically, the first pack I picked up was a Drink Local from that shop a ways away. And those Drink Locals, I didn't realize that the craft versions were a little different yet. So that – of course, my research habits, I'd research everything and stumbled upon – grabbed a pack of craft books. And as much as I like to Drink Locals, I think those craft books are incredible, just the way they wear and everything. So – but anyway, yeah, I've got a good stash going so far. I'm trying to collect as many colors books as possible, but, man, they are hard to find.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, it's kind of like back when, Myke, when you and I started like doing the collection part of this, there was still a lot of availability. This is, what, a year and a half, year, year and a half ago? So you could still get your hands on some of the older stuff, not easily, but a little bit more so than now. Now you never see, like, anything going with, like, the old editions. And I'm not even talking about, like, the Butcher Orange and Butcher Blue. I'm talking about, like, even, like, Fire Spotter and Day Game and things like that. You just can't find them anymore, it seems like. Have you seen that, Myke?

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, I think we may have contributed to the problem because I know that there were a lot of people that were kind of getting involved with us when me and you started really kind of searching, like, you know, having the saved eBay searches. And then, like, I used to do quite a lot of Google shopping searches to find these, like, really random online retail stores. I found one based in Australia that had a couple of, like, random editions on it. And I bet that they still exist, just not everybody, just not all of them have been found yet. But I think all of the easy ones have been found. Whether we had a, like, I think it may have been, honestly, I think us and the Field Nuts Facebook page kind of really sparked the collecting of them again, I think. Because if you think, I don't think it would take more than a few hundred, maybe a thousand people looking for these and they're all going to go. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I mean, there was this land rush, right, for about six months.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And just this ravenous desire, which I was part of, too, to get this collection built out, which I'm super happy. I have pretty much everything. Oh, I'm jealous. Yeah. Wow.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, Brad has – you have them all, right? You have at least all the colors now.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, I have all the colors. The only thing I don't have a sealed three-pack up is the Butcher Orange, which I could if I wanted to spend $200 on it. I just don't want to spend $200 on it. Don't blame you. So I have a single Butcher Orange notebook, and I have a sealed three-pack of the Butcher Blue. Then I have sealed three-packs of everything else. So one of these days, I'll break down and get the three-pack of orange and be done with it because I would like that. I just – I've been spending too much money on pens to pay $200 for notebooks.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Did you guys see how much an entire full shrink wrap collection is fetching on eBay these days? There were a couple that popped up a couple weeks ago, and wow, I've blown away a couple thousand dollars minimum to get an entire set. So they're worth a lot. It's amazing.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It's really – it's genuinely crazy. I mean it's pretty insane just to think about. Like if you started having this conversation out loud with people who are not into this thing, they would look at you like you were just – where is the loony bin in the straitjacket because you're going.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So I want to get into a couple of specific editions with you, and Myke wants to start a fight. Okay. Here we go. So we're going to talk about the Shelterwood edition. So give us – so Myke and I's stance on the Shelterwood edition is very well known. It's divided. Yes. We're podcast divided.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Yes.



== Shelterwood Edition ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Myke is a big fan. I am not. So where do you stand on Shelterwood? Myke, I think this ought to be all of our guests' question, the standard question we ask. What is your stance on the Field Notes Shelterwood edition?

'''Myke Hurley:''' But we have to obviously allow the show to go on for a bit first because I run the board so I could just hang up.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Oh, no.

'''Josh Ginter:''' We've lost Josh.

'''Myke Hurley:''' What a shame.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Josh could be talking and he's like, I hate the Field Notes Shelterwood edition. And then we'll go back and listen. There'll be an edit. It'll go, I love the Field Notes Shelterwood edition with Myke's voice edited in.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' For all our guests. Yes. So Myke has the hammer, but we'll let him have that. So what do you think, Josh? So tell me about the Shelterwood. And let me just say this before I do that. Your reviews are excellent. I'm like really jealous of how good a job you do. They're very thorough. The pictures are always great. They're very detailed. And I'm always impressed with your reviews. I think that's why I read your blog so much. You do an excellent job just from the writing and review aspect. So I just wanted to throw that out there. Appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. So tell me about the Shelterwood.

'''Josh Ginter:''' You know what? I'm not going to bring any decision here because I'm as split as the two of you are when it comes to Shelterwood.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Originally when I reviewed them, I thought they were exactly like Brad said. They look cool and they're unique, but they're just not going to be the first one I pick up. And I still maintain that because now I look at my next decision here. It's coming up shortly where I've got to make another decision on another colors book. And I don't think Shelterwood is going to be my choice. It's just it looks it's so unique and it's so beautiful. And, you know, it might end up in the Museum of Modern Art in New York at one point. But at the same time, it actually does feel pretty good to write and to write in and to use. And and they wear they don't even wear like they're so durable. I find they're actually more durable than than the Expedition editions from 2012. They if you treat them decently, the wood is incredible. It doesn't I haven't had any splinter problems. I've read online and some people have. But so I'm really impressed with the durability of the book. So that way, like I love it. I like the paper. I like that 70 pound paper. I don't like that quarter inch ruling. Boy, I think I've made that pretty clear. I reviewed I cannot stand that quarter inch ruling. So like ideally get rid of the wood and put a craft front on it and use the same shelterwood paper with the same ruling color. But put a graph in there like I don't know, opinionated when it comes to it. But I think that they look awesome and they feel awesome. But they're just I don't know. They're not. I would rather choose a drink local or a craft book before a shelterwood book to write in. So.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, I might have you gone through any shelterwoods yet? Have you been using them?

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, I've gone through one. I haven't started a second yet because I've had so many others that I've been trying to rotate through. But yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' How did it do for you? I'm just I'm generally curious because I honestly have not used I haven't put a lick of ink in any of them.

'''Myke Hurley:''' So the cover didn't stay closed, you know, but that really isn't an issue for me because I find it was just a different element of not staying closed because none of my fields know to stay closed. So it was just how much non-closed I was able to cope with. And this was still fine.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Did you find, Myke, that they got worse as you used them? No. No? Okay. Mine actually felt like they bent more as I used them. But anyway, sorry about that.

'''Myke Hurley:''' It may just be because of the way that I, as I've mentioned this on the show at the time, that I kind of inadvertently weigh my books down with things. Okay. Like when I'm at the office, I put them, I put my phone on top of my notebook all day when I'm not using it. When I'm not using either of them, even a notebook or my phone. Like it sits on the top closed. And then I store my books in the Rotofarden, which has a pocket that I keep them in. And then the whole thing is kept shut with an elastic band. So it kind of keeps the book closed for like tight for most of the day. So I may be having a more positive experience with that. But I didn't, I mean, it stays open, but it's not dramatically more. Or so I didn't really notice it get worse.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I thought that out of all of my field notes, it actually wore the best. Like as in it didn't get all like, as you would imagine.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Falling apart.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah. It didn't, there was no wear, there was no falling apart of any kind. You know, because that differs from book to book. I actually think that's part of the fun, but some people don't like that. But I like, I like the character that they take on by the time you're finished with them.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, totally agree with that. Josh, how do you carry them? How are you carrying your field notes? Do you carry them, you know, in your pocket, in a cover, or in a backpack? Yeah.

'''Josh Ginter:''' I carry a cover with me. It's the Hellbrand Leatherworks field notes cover.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh, that's right. I've seen that on your site. Yeah.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Yeah. I really like that leather cover. It's thick and durable. And that's how I carry mine. So the front covers, they don't get worn, especially that shelterwood one. Like it hardly gets worn at all. There's a little line down the middle from the leather, but other than that, that's how I carry them. So that leather really protects all my books, actually.

'''Myke Hurley:''' And that paper, the paper, I can't, you know, I can't say enough good things about the thicker paper.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Agreed. Agreed. Y'all are making me want to use this one next. I never thought I'd say that, honestly. But it won't be next, because I'm already on to the next. And it's the current, the Arts and Sciences edition.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Mr. Hurley, have you received yours yet?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Came in the mail today.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Dang, that's awesome. That's like, that's the general podcast sound for I Have the Loot. Yeah.

'''Myke Hurley:''' This is the fastest I've ever had a set arrive.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right. So, all right, Josh, we're going to let Myke go first here, because I didn't know he had them. And they're fresh out, fresh out the post. So I want Mr. Hurley's initial thoughts on it.



== Field Notes Size ==


'''Myke Hurley:''' So I opened them and felt like a tiny person. Because they are, like, just perfectly scaled up field notes, notebooks. Like, the front, obviously, you really only get that on the outside, of course. But everything is just perfectly scaled. Like, they're cut in the same way. Like, the proportions of field notes and N64, obviously, it's a different number. But, like, the notebook thing and durable materials is all the same. You know, everything is just, like, a funny, like, a bigger size, right? So there's only two in the pack this time. And I got a couple of the packs, I think. Yeah, the badges that it came with, because I'm a color subscriber, are really cool. So the little, is it debossed? It's debossed, not embossed, right? The debossed insignia that's on the back of them. You get little badges, which are really cool. But the thing is, the badges are also larger than the previous badges. And I wonder if they did that in the same way that I'm thinking about it, which is, like, everything's bigger.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I didn't think about that. I hadn't heard anyone else mention that.

'''Myke Hurley:''' The badges are usually, like, those little pin badges, like the little small ones. But these are bigger ones, more sort of towards the size of birthday badges, you know?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' You'll have to explain us birthday badges.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Do you not have badges on birthday cards? No, I know, but I know what you're talking about. I'm just giving you a hard time. You people over there. You get your birthday card situation sorted out. I know, we do. So I haven't used them, naturally. I mean, I've opened them. I cracked them open. I really love the difference between the two of them. I like that, you know, one is arts and one is sciences. And the things that they print on the inside, obviously, they have a lot more space to print things on the inside. Like, pertinent coordinates, which usually is basically the whole thing, fills up, like, half of one page, you know? Right. But, like, I've got the sciences one in front of me, and it's got the periodic table in it. And I like that there's a little checkbox, which says this field notes book is a property of, it says Mr., Mrs., Ms., and Doctor. And then in arts, it's the, T-H-E-E.

'''Nifty:''' I didn't notice that. That's so, that's awesome.

'''Myke Hurley:''' So just all these little things. I mean, you know, I continue to love the character of these things. The paper differences are really cool. So the plane one side, and then, is it lined in arts and this sort of scientific grid in sciences? Is that right? Yes, correct. Because do you know where the arts one is right now? Where? It's clipped into my rotor farden.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh, nice. Yeah, it's the perfect size for that, right?

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, it's a little bit smaller than the pads that come with the rotor farden, but it fits perfectly in there. And that's where it will stay now. So, I mean, I have, I ordered more than these than I need. But I don't know if they're ever going to make a size like this again. So, I mean, I have these two here, and I have another two packs coming. And these will probably last me the longest, because they, I don't actually take a lot of notes in the notebook that's in my rotor farden like that. But I do take long notes in there. Like, for example, I have my mid-year review at my corporate, corporate office job in a couple of weeks. And that's one of the things where I take a bigger page and I write it all out. Sometimes I have to draw tables and charts and stuff, and I draw them out in the bigger notebook. So I'll be putting all my big notes. Big boy notes will go in these larger field notes. I feel like there needs to be a name given to the larger field notes. Like, they need to have a name that we refer to them as. I know we've got the arts and sciences, but like, I don't know, field notes or something like that.

'''Myke Hurley:''' They're fieldier. I hope that they, I think it would be really cool to see, they've kind of opened Pandora's box now. Because they did something that we never expected them to do, I think. Which is to make a different size of the standard notebook. So, unfortunately now, you know, we're going to expect A4 sizes. We're going to expect all sorts to come from them. And I hope that they continue to play around with the format. Because for the amount of field notes, notebooks that I have, and all color subscribers have, because we're addicted to these things, it might be nice to mix up some other stuff other than just color. Like, until just now, I totally hadn't realized that there's nothing to these from the paper side on the outside. Because, you know, like, recently what it's been is, how cool can we make the front cover? Right. And these, they're very, very nice, but they're simple. They're like throwback, kind of. They're just new colors. They're just nice colors, and they have a little deboss on them. So I hope that they continue to find new ways to play around with what the notebook actually is. Now. But, yeah, so that's kind of my first look impressions.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So they will definitely be in use by you?

'''Myke Hurley:''' Oh, yeah. I mean, as I said, they won't be used very frequently, but it's nothing to do with the book. It's just how I use notebooks. But, yeah, these will live in the Rotofaden now, so I'm rounding out the Fieldness experience. People at work are going to be very confused.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Because today, I had two separate people comment on how, I find it so funny. I always have that little notebook. And I'm like, I never lose them. That's what I say. It stays in my pocket. Yeah. And they're walking around with these, like, banner. Are you familiar with the brand, Banner? It's like a corporate office supply company. Yeah. And everybody's got these blue banner notebooks at work. Sure. Because they're the ones that are in the stationary cupboard. And I'm like, don't you say a word.



== Field Notes Editions ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right, Josh. So what do you think about this edition?

'''Nifty:''' That Pandora's box is exactly where my mind went.

'''Josh Ginter:''' The moment I pulled these things out of the pack, I was blown away first by the size. I just, you get really used to that smaller size and these bigger books. But as I wrote in my review there, I found that I don't use them the same. I have started using actually both of them. I've got both. I use the arts for sketching out ideas for articles or for reviews, especially. I started using it for an entire outline of the arts and sciences review I wrote. And then I used the sciences book at the accounting office that I work at. So I've got a nice, I like using the blank pages for rough calculations and then little notes or to-do lists or whatever I've got to remember. But my experience so far is that I don't carry them with me. I leave them at my desk at home or at my desk at work. And I think that entirely changes. Entirely changes, at least for this idea. It's a different idea for field notes. For me, at least a mobile book, a book that you throw in your back pocket or you throw into your book or your bag and you pull it at the coffee shop or something along those lines. These books, they're different. They're not, I don't know what you guys find, but I find I don't use them the same. I already have different types of information in them. And I'm intrigued with that. I really hope that the field notes brand jumps on this opportunity to kind of take on an entirely different product line. That's what I'm keeping my fingers crossed for.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Do you know what? There was one thing that I did want from this edition, and it would be cool if they found a way to do it now, is to put a little band that goes around them to keep, you know. I don't know. I feel like at this size, there's kind of like this. I mean, I know it's convention, which is probably why they wouldn't and shouldn't do it, because I'm thinking like all of the other notebooks this size have the little bookmark in them and the elastic that goes around them. But I don't know. At the same time, I think it might be kind of cool to do something like that, to make a more conventional business-y style notebook. Yeah. For field notes.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Myke, do you find that the books are at the bigger size? You kind of expect the covers to be like thicker? Or Brad, do you find that, do you want them to be thicker, the covers? Or do you like how, like this kind of size reminds me of like a moleskin, like the general moleskin book. And I expect it to be like a thicker, sturdier cover. But it's not really like that. So it's its own dimension. But like, what do you guys find?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I've actually always preferred the softer cover on this size notebook, just because of the flexibility. Like if you're using a moleskin of this size and the, so like I use this, you hit it on your review, Josh. I use this more as a desk notebook, right? The size and the format, you know, lends to that. And that's actually my preferred writing size. Like it's close to an A5. And that's what I always use on my desk. You know, that general, that ballpark five by eight inch size. And I don't know, you metric people might not understand that, but y'all can Google it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' But this, but in this format, I prefer the softer cover just because of the thinner, the thinner book, like the thicker moleskins that are this size that have, you know, three or four times as many pages, it's harder for me to write on because of that space gap when you're writing with your, like if you're resting your hand on it and there's like a huge cliff falling off the edge of the notebook down to the desk type of thing.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Have either of you ever used the soft cover moleskin? Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. That's my, that's my favorite moleskin. Me too.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Oh man. I had one of those. It was like, I don't know what size it was, but it was bigger than the usual moleskins. It was moving towards ledger size. And I loved that notebook.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' That I, I still have some of those. That's the soft cover moleskins have always been my favorite. So this field notes is right up my alley.

'''Josh Ginter:''' So Brad, you were talking there about, I guess earlier I had said my expectation. You expect like this bigger, thicker cover when you have a book this size. But I, I think like utility wise, this soft cover is way, way smarter and it screams to be used. My, my hardcover moleskin book, it sits on my desk here at home and I haven't written in it in months. But that's just me. I hate the way my hand drops off and the way you've got to bend the first few pages. And that's, I, I can't stand that. So this soft cover is certainly better. It's just like your first initial expectation is for it to be thicker.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I knew I liked you for a reason. We, our, our thoughts on these things are, are so similar and I agree. I agree. A hundred percent. You know, I, I, I'm trying to think the last hardcover notebook I've bought because that's just not my style anymore. I like this size field notes with the soft cover. I like, I like a five pads either, you know, just like a wire bound or a perforated pad. I have very few hardcover notebooks that I enjoy using now that I think about it. I think it's because, I think it's for that reason. The, the size is a little bit intimidating and, you know, just to have you, you, you feel so super committed to one of those books. And I like to be able to plow through a field notes book at a faster pace and then change onto something else. You know, if I want to change my mind and use a different edition or use a different color or, or whatever, or use it for a different project. Um, you just feel more pimped into those bigger hardcover, um, notebooks. And I think that's why, you know, these products, um, have, have hit such a home run for everybody.

'''Josh Ginter:''' I think, I think there was a command space episode, Myke, where you were talking about, uh, with Mr. Kudal there at one point. And he had said the best part about the field notes books is that they, like they are better used and, uh, and they're like this thinner book that is, um, smarter. It just, like you said, there's like an intimate attachment to those big books and these small ones, they are, uh, I agree there, they're want to be used and they look better used and they, yeah, it beats that for sure.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah. Jim's opinions about field notes, I think is what, and I know they all have this, everybody that works there is the same. We know that. Um, but the, the opinion that they have about the way the books, they, it sounds like such a simple thing, but the idea that the notebooks that they make are notebooks that are intended to be used. Like, I don't feel like you get that in other scenarios. Like they, I feel like there's a lot of choices that they make and also just in the way that they sell the products, you know, the marketing terms that they use, they're very much like, don't, we're not going to tell you about artists that used to use these pads, you know, that died and we're not going to slip a little thing in there. You know, we're basically telling you, fill them up, fill them up with all kinds of crap. Just fill them up. Like that's kind of a, I mean, I've, I've distilled it quite significantly and made it a bit more crass, but that's effectively what they tell you to do, right? Writing it down to remember it now, right?

'''Josh Ginter:''' Rather than later. Exactly.

'''Myke Hurley:''' They just fill it up and, and could all, like I asked him what he used these for. And like, I remember him telling me like, like city things like recipes or like, um, shopping lists, but also like scores for get card games. It's just, he just fills these up and I see people do the same. Like when I go to WWDC and I see the people that I know are field notes nerds and they have them with them and they just fill them up with stuff, you know? And I just think that's so great. And that's my favorite thing about field notes. It's why I don't mind burning through them. Like you said, Josh, that you did about three or four pages of writing every day. I did the same, but it's not writing. It's just notes. Like things happen in a day where I'm like, right. Okay. Write this little note down for myself, put it in a box. Okay. Oh, now somebody wants me to help them rewrite this subject line. Let me write out 20 different ways of saying this.

'''Myke Hurley:''' That's impressive.

'''Josh Ginter:''' You're a busy man. That's impressive. I don't know how I can come up with that many little scribblings in a day, but.

'''Myke Hurley:''' My field notes books, you know, I started scanning them in, Brad. Basically now, if I scan in 10, 15 pages, it's a miracle. Yeah. Because I've stopped scanning in the things that are pointless, right? Like where it's that stuff. I'm like, I'm never going to need this again. Like there's no point of this. So I just scan in the things that I need. But. That's true. You know, and it's also why I tend to have like six concurrent field notes books. Because some of the projects, I keep them separately and then, you know, but they don't leave the house. And then I have like two on me at all times.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I definitely have a problem. Yeah. I was going to say, I've just finished two, like within a day of each other, you know, kind of simultaneously finishing two notebooks because they were used for different things. Because, you know, like one of these, my podcast notes notebook I filled up last week and then the one I carry, carry with me just for general stuff I filled up last week. So now, which it was a good timing for the arts and sciences to come in. So I took this week's podcast notes and planning in the sciences edition. So I'm really happy with it.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Do you like that engineer grid so far? Do you like the way that? Yeah. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'm a huge grid fan. You can almost never go wrong. As long as the lines aren't too dark, I'm all about grids. Yeah. Grids are, I've said this all along, grids are the most freeing line format for me. They, I feel the least restricted on what should be the most restricted format. And I can't explain it. It's just always been that way. It's been that way since I was a kid. I've always hunted down graph paper. I hate lines. So maybe if, if anyone wants to trade their engineering for, for arts and sciences, I mean, their sciences for arts, I'm all ears.



== Moleskin Notebooks ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'll probably use it eventually, but I would much prefer to have the sciences than the art. So if anyone listening wants to do a swap out, I think I've got four and I'll, I'll, I'll trade it. I'll trade probably three of them.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Oh, well, someone went and bought a few then. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I got a problem.

'''Myke Hurley:''' So you're happy with this edition? Cause you've been, you know, last couple of editions, you've not been that, that keen on.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I mean, no, I am happy with this edition. This format suits me well, um, for the way I take notes and it's usually at a desk. I'm usually sitting and this format tent lends itself to better usage for that situation. Um, it's not as portable, but that's okay for me. I don't need it to be highly portable. Um, you know, like I don't need it to be a back pocket notebook. Now that said in the grand scheme of all field notes ever, you know, it may not crack the top 10, but it's a really good edition. I'm very happy with the format and the size of it. So, um, and obviously the, the quality is great and I've enjoyed using it so far, um, without question. So it's excellent. I I'm very happy with what they, with the choices they made on this edition and they continue to surprise us all.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I hope that they do continue to continue to, too.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I know. I know. It's got to be, uh, got to be a challenge for them. Then they, they have, uh, definitely delivered on, on that. So, well, I think that's, uh, I think that's all the field notes. Lovely. We can dish out in one day.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Josh, you are awesome. We really appreciate you, uh, you being on the podcast and, uh, we'd love to have you on again sometime. I thought you were, you were excellent. And, uh, and everyone should definitely check out the newsprint. So why don't you tell.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Appreciate it, Brad. I, I, uh, it's been an honor being able to come on here and talk about this stuff with you guys. Like every time I try to have a conversation like this with anybody close to me and they look at me, roll their eyes and think I'm going crazy. And I like being able to do this. So I appreciate you guys having me on here.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' You got it. And once you, once you tell everyone, um, you know, if you have a, your Twitter account or anywhere, anyone can get in touch with you once you tell everyone that real quick.

'''Josh Ginter:''' Sure. Sure. You guys, uh, check out the blog. It's, uh, at, uh, the newsprint.co. Um, you can also follow the newsprint at, at the newsprint on Twitter. And you can follow me, uh, um, at Joshua Ginter, J-O-S-H-U-A-G-I-N-T-E-R, uh, on Twitter as well. So I'll, I look forward to talking to some new people about this stuff. And it, uh, floats my boat and I, I can't wait to get started.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Awesome. I, these, these episodes are my favorite, um, when, when we get to talk about the field notes. So, Josh, thank you for, for joining us for, I think it made the episode even more fun. Yeah. Appreciate it. Pleasure. I always love the new field notes episodes. All right.

'''Myke Hurley:''' So thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Pen Addict podcast. If you'd like to catch the notes for today, go to 5x5.tv slash Pen Addict slash 111. We're number 111 today. Um, I am on Twitter. I am at iMike, I-M-Y-K-E. Brad is at Dowdyism, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M. And he writes over at penaddict.com. Thank you so much to Pen Chalet and to Huckberry for their support of this week's episode. Go check them out. Um, if you, I think you'll love them and it also helps support the show too. Until next week, say goodbye, Brad.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Goodbye, Brad.

[[Category:Podcast Transcripts]]
[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]