Editing The Pen Addict 155/transcript (section)

== Nibs ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right. We're going to talk about nibs a little bit because it seems like I know we've done some general nib topics before. And the more we talk about nibs, the more questions people have about nibs, which is great. I like that because we've gone to the very general and broad topics of the past. Now, we're getting to very specific topics about nibs. So, I have a few questions that I got from the Slack room, which, you know, we haven't talked about the Slack room in a while. And we'll put the link for the auto invite page that I set up. Thanks to your help for pointing me in the right direction. Oh, excellent. We have like 560 people in that Slack channel. Really? Yeah.

'''Myke Hurley:''' No wonder it's always like lighting up.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It's pretty awesome. And everyone's handling it really well. It's a really fun place to be. So, we'll add that into the Slack room. I'll get you that link. But the first question is from Phil Lee. It says, I'm interested in your thoughts on writing and learning to write with a cursive italic nib or any non-standard nib. Having got my first one, a Franklin Kristoff Model 20 with a steel Masayama medium cursive italic last week. So, if you're looking for a broader, wider nib with some line variation, you're either looking at a cursive italic or a stub nib. Cursive italics are harder to write with in general because they have sharper edges on the side of the nib. So, if you think of like a rectangle, you know, the narrow edge of a rectangle pointing towards your, hitting the paper. A cursive italic nib is not far off from that. It's got, it's known for its very sharp edges. It can be, still be very smooth, but the angle you hold the pen and the way you write your lines and the consistency of that angle does change the feel of the pen. And you can, with a cursive italic nib, you can get the edges caught in the paper, if you will. It's not extreme. I don't want to turn anyone off from it. It's my personal favorite nib. Um, because usually the, the people who are making these cursive italic grinds, they're not trying to make like razor blades that are cutting up your paper. They're trying to make a sharper line. Um, so when you have, you have wide horizontal, um, wide vertical strokes, thin horizontal strokes. The difference between that and a stub is the stub. Think of it as that same rectangle, but those two corners are rounded. So, you get a lot smoother flowing writing style. But you won't get the variety of that huge of a line variation. There's definitely some, but like the vertical lines will be the same width. The horizontal lines will be wider. So, the cursive italic nibs have a thinner horizontal line than a stub. They're a little bit sharper on the edge. You have to hold it. Um, you just have to, I can't tell you what angle to hold the pen at. You have to find that sweet spot and you'll know when you find it, it'll be very smooth and crisp and clean. And that's what I like about the cursive italic nibs.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Um, so the cursive italic is what I have on my Franklin Kristoff. And I had to use, I had to get some of that stuff. What was it called? Micromesh.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Micromesh. Yes.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah. Because it was just too sharp for me. And I think it might be because I'm a lefty. Because, for example, with the way that I hold the pen, Brad, I have thin horizontal and thick vertical. So, it's the opposite. Right? Yeah. Right. Because of the way that I hold the pen upside down. So, it wasn't, it was good. But if I had it, like, just ever so slightly in one direction, like, it would start scratching. And it was, it was too much. And then once I used the micromesh with it a little bit, and I kind of just softened it just a tad, it helps me a lot more. But I still have the line width variation. But now I can actually use it because before it was, it was too frustrating. And I think it's because it is quite delicate. So, my, obviously, if you're going to buy one of these nibs, either buy it somewhere you can try it, buy it somewhere you can have it amended, or buy it from somewhere you know has a good return policy.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. Right. And I have done the same thing on some of my cursive italics. Some of them are exactly perfect to how I write. And then some of them I have to tone down the edges just a little bit. And I use that micromesh as well to do that. And if you do use micromesh and if you buy it on our recommendation from the show, be really, really careful. You want to buy the finest grit that you can. It's like a 12,000 grit micromesh. Be very, very gentle. Go very slow. Wet the pad a little bit that you're writing on. And just go very, very slow. And, you know, use the micromesh. Test it on paper and back and forth until you get a better feel for your pen. But, yes, it's a very helpful tool. And it will tone down the edges just a little bit. You don't want to go crazy with that stuff. So, you actually freaked me out when I sent it to you. You said, yeah, I've already used it. I'm like, oh, God, I didn't really tell you what to do.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, see, I didn't do all that stuff. But I was careful. Well, even if I wasn't, the pen works great. So, no matter what happened, I'm really happy with it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right, right. So, the next question is from T1 Demand. I don't know if that means something or not. He says, custom ground nibs and how they make a good pen into a great pen. This is a total personal taste thing, right? I never recommend anyone to get a custom ground pen unless they're looking for something very specific. When I started getting into fountain pens, I was looking for the absolute finest lines I could get. And even, you know, like German or Western extra fine nibs were never fine enough for me. So, then I found Japanese nibs. And their stock nibs actually were fine enough for me if I got down into fine and extra fine. But if I bought a German pen like a Pelican with an extra fine nib, I wanted it way, way, way, way finer. And that's totally on my personal writing style, right? And we're going to talk about this more because I'm going to talk about a music nib here in a minute on how it fits your writing style. I'm a block letterer. Basically, you know, I print block letters. So, not every nib style fits my style of writing. The extra, extra fine nibs do. And the broader nibs that are squared off like cursive italics and stub nibs do. So, how they make a good pen into a great pen, it's not so much that as it makes a good pen into a pen that fits your writing style better. So, it's a very personal thing.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I couldn't imagine getting a custom grind now without having it done in person by somebody. That, to me, just feels like the way you should do it. Like, so you can try it and then they can see how you write and you can try it. That's how I feel anyway now. Having done it both ways. Because I've had custom, I've bought pens that have been custom ground and they're just not right for me. And I think it could be because of the way I hold a pen. So, if I'm going to get something done like that, because it does add a bit more cost on, I personally would prefer to do it in an environment where we can have some revisions.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep. No, I'm with you. That's a very good point. And, you know, it comes down to personal taste. And it's hard to go into, to your point, it's hard to go into that blindly, right? Never having used something and saying, this is what I want. And not being able to, like, sit down and have someone do that while you're sitting there. It's a little bit harder task than that. Hopefully, we can help, you know, guide people into what they need. So, if you have questions about custom nib grinds, definitely email me or get in touch. And we can talk about more specifics on what you're looking for. Our good friend, Dan, who was in the chat room today, Mr. Design Concussion, Mr. Karis Customs, Dan Karis, we'll call him. And he says, I also would love to hear about nib grinds. I still feel like I have no idea what any of them are for and why Estabrook made a bajillion different ones. I haven't done the Estabrook history, but it's got to be over 100 nibs that they did. And they, at the time, when they're making millions and millions of pens a year, I guess they were trying to fit the needs of everybody. And they felt the need, or they felt they had the skill and the wherewithal enough to make highly specific nibs for highly specific uses, like accountant nibs. Like, for accountants that are filling ledger books, they have extra fine, extra firm nibs and things like that. There's a huge range. You see all these Estabrook posters of all their nib sizes and they have names for all this. It's like, why does this person need a specific nib? And nowadays, you know, we look back at it and me personally, I look at it and go, wow, that's pretty cool. I could get any nib for anything that I want.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So, Dan says, he says, I have no idea what any of them are for. And it goes back to personal taste and it goes back to something that fits your writing style the best. Medium nib, like stock medium and stock broad nibs do not fit my writing style well at all. The way I print, those nibs make my writing look messier than if I had an extra fine nib or if I had a edgier nib like a stub or a cursive italic where I can make my lettering look better. It's really personal taste. And then you can get into some really wild specific nibs, which we'll talk about in a minute. And that's also something we'll talk about in a future episode. But, you know, no idea what they're for is basically, it's personal, basically. I don't know any way to elaborate on that more. You know, you either have a specific writing style where you're trying to have your writing look better or you have a specific use case where you need to do something very specific with that pen. And no stock nib can handle that. So, that's the short version. We'll maybe elaborate more on some really wild specific nibs. All right. So, I have a few more nibs I want to talk about. And actually, a couple of these are a little bit wild. So, let's talk about another one of our friends and I'll hit up some of these nibs.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Sounds like a good idea. This week's episode of The Pen Addict is also brought to you by Squarespace. Start building your website today at squarespace.com. And you'll want to use the offer code INK at checkout to get 10% off Squarespace. Build it beautiful. When it comes to finding a home for yourself on the internet, there is nowhere better than Squarespace. They put all of the power that you need into your hands and take away the pain points like having to worry about hosting, scaling, or what to do if you get stuck with something. If you're looking to build a personal website, maybe a portfolio, maybe you're looking to start a store, this is the sort of stuff that Squarespace can help you out with. You can build a site that looks professionally designed regardless of skill level. There's no coding required. They have intuitive and easy to use tools that make your website and let you make your website look exactly how you want and feel the way that you want. Squarespace has stated the art technology that can power your website and will also ensure security and stability. They're trusted by millions of people around the world and have some of the most respected brands using their platform. Their site templates are really great to look at. They feature responsive design to make your site look great on all sizes of device. But this is just getting started. Squarespace have tons of other awesome features like 24-7 support with live chat and email. They have teams located in New York, Dublin, and Portland who are there to help you. They have their commerce platform which allows anybody to add a store to their Squarespace site to sell physical and digital goods. For example, that is how we have our store at RelayFM and that's how the Nox store is run as well on Squarespace's commerce platform. Don't forget their cover page which allows you to build great looking single page websites either standalone or as an intro page maybe to your own website. And this is all built on top of their rock solid fast hosting and they have so much more. If you want to sign up for a year, you'll also nab yourself a free domain name allowing you to choose exactly what you want your site to be called. And Squarespace's plan starts at just $8 a month. You can sign up right now and start a free, no credit card required trial. It's just a free trial so you can give it a go and start building your website today by going to squarespace.com. And when you do decide to sign up for one of their plans, make sure that you use the offer code INK, I-N-K, to get 10% off your first purchase and to show your support for this show. We thank Squarespace for their help with us today and for helping us out at RelayFM. Squarespace, build it beautiful.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And thanks to all our listeners who have used that code INK to build their own sites. It's been pretty cool to see.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Indeed.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So Jeff Abbott, who writes for The Pen Addict, did a review of a TWSBI 580 AL Orange with a custom nib from Pendleton Brown. And Pendleton is known for a specific type of nib grind that he does. It's called a Butterline Stub, which is essentially the sharpness of a cursive italic with the roll and soft edge of a stub. So kind of like what we're talking about. It's kind of like a combo of the two. And he did this review and I basically went over to Pendleton's site and ordered one for myself because I never got the AL Orange yet. I was like, well, if I can get a funky nib grind like this, I like to do that sometimes. You know, I have enough TWSBI's where I didn't need another one. But if I can get some cool nib work done, I will get that done. So what I got is actually called a Bad Boy, which is the Butterline Stub with added flex. So I'm going to have to take some pictures of this. I haven't had a chance yet. But what Pendleton does is he puts the Butterline Stub nib grime on, which is a real soft. It's a great nib. I will definitely do some more on this. It's just wonderful. You can see it in Jeff's review. It flows wonderfully. It's got great lines. And then with mine, he cut two slits in the sides of the nib and took out a little bit of the side of the nib, like a little curve. And so now mine has added flex to it. So it's the Bad Boy. It's pretty crazy awesome. I think I'm going to have a hard time not keeping this pen inked at all times. It's an expensive grind to get. It's like probably 60 bucks on top of the pen. You know, I think I paid like 130 for it.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Jeff's eyedropper in this, isn't he?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Well, no, this is a piston filler. So it just sucks up into that.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Of course it is. Of course it is. It's a Twisby.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Have you heard of Twisby? Have you heard of Twisby?

'''Myke Hurley:''' I don't know. I don't know why. Anyway, carry on.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Well, that's how good Jeff's pictures were. That's what made me go buy it, right? These are beautiful. It's a really sick view.

'''Myke Hurley:''' He has a great camera, but these are just stunning looking.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. So I was like, forget it. I'm going to go do this. And I just went ahead and got the added flex so I can play with it. So there's guys and gals out there that can really get specific things done to your nibs. And, you know, there's Spenserian grinds that I know, like nibs.com, I think they will do that for you, where they really cut out like a Pilot Falcon nib and they cut it and shape it to where it's got extra, extra added flex and things like that. So that's when you're getting really into it and crazy like myself, you get these, you just keep going off the deep end further and further and further. So I'll have more about my nib and I'll definitely take some pictures, some close-up pictures so you can see the slits and the cutouts in this nib is pretty cool. Then I did a review of a music nib recently, a Sailor music nib, 1911 standard with Sailor's music nib. And I've never used a music nib before this one. And what they're designed for originally was writing music scores, right? Back in, I don't know, whenever, hundreds of years ago, the shape would allow for a narrow vertical line and a wide horizontal line. Like you were talking about the way you hold your pen, right? That's what you would get. And the music nib was actually, which I didn't learn until I did this review, they're actually made to hold differently, almost like a lefty hook. They're made to hold it so the nib's at like a 90 degree angle to the page. So you can write those wide horizontal lines and thin vertical lines. And, you know, these days there's not much need for that because there's so many nib options. We can manipulate whatever nib we need and to make whatever shape we want. But the thing about these music nibs is they put a lot of ink on the page. So for people that want big, beautiful handwriting, like if you're doing big scripts and big printing and just, you know, want a ton of ink on the page, you want to look at a music nib. A lot of them have two tines, I mean, excuse me, three tines and two slits. So the ink flow is that much more. Sailors is cut with one slit and two tines, but it still has that same amount of flow in there. If you want to read up, I did a little bit on the background of a music nib on this post. And you can read up a little bit of it. But I basically related the music nib to like a chisel tip marker. It's very wide, very broad, but you still get a sharp line. Like my lettering came out really, really good. But for my style, I don't know that I could use it every day because it's a little bit too big. It would be a very specific nib for me. Some people like writing in this all day, every day. And, you know, I've seen some wonderful, wonderful examples of music nib handwriting. No one really uses them to write music scores much these days. So that's a really good nib if you want a lot of ink flow and have a marker style fountain pen. And then the last link we'll throw into the show, which is on the opposite spectrum of the music nib. Leigh Reyes, she did a post on some of her extra fine nibs, which I just thought was kind of neat in relation to this podcast. She did all kinds of different nibs that she has, did a lot of close-up nibs. Because she's kind of like me. She likes the extra, extra fine. And then she goes way into like the stubs and cursive italics. Like not a lot of middle ground there. And she just has a ton of great pictures. If you want to read about a bunch of extra fine nibs that she has. Even her really old Watermans, Waterman flex nibs that are extra fine are fascinating. I need to get one of those. I have a Waterman, but it's a wider nib flex pen. So that's just something for everyone to check out because Leigh always does something really, really cool.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Always approach Leigh's website with caution though.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes, yes. Hide your wallet. Yep. Hide your wallet.

'''Myke Hurley:''' What is that called again? The flex, right?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' God, you had to do that to me because I can never remember it. When they got the cut out. It is, yeah. But it starts with an E. I don't know. I'll think of it in a minute. You do our next sponsor and I'll be thinking of that name. Okay. Elastic. Elastic. Elastic. There you go.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Look at you. You did it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Pro tip.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Right. So we just want to thank our final sponsor and then we'll get into talking about the giveaway stuff. Rather than, you know, telling people what the pens are and then doing the big drum roll. Yep. This week's episode is also brought to you by Harry's. For many of us, shaving can be a pain. It can be uncomfortable, not just on the parts of your body that you shave, but also on your wallet as well. It can be very expensive to have to buy razor blades to make sure that you're refreshing them freshly enough to make sure that you get a good shave. And this is the type of stuff that Harry's was created to solve. Harry's was started by a couple of guys who wanted a better product without having to pay an arm and a leg to get it. Harry's make their own blades. They work with a and they actually own a factory in Germany that creates high quality, high performing blades crafted by absolute shaving experts who've been doing this basically forever. And in doing so, they have great blades that they that, you know, they're known very well how to make. They look good. They feel good. And they're made at a great cost. Harry's, their razor blades, they will basically save an average everyday shaver about $150 a year. So if you're shaving one of the other big brands and you switch over to Harry's, that's the sort of savings that you'll be looking at, which is an incredible amount. You could say they're definitely shaving quite a bit off the top there, Brad. You could say that. Harry's offers a high quality shave at about a fraction of the price of the big brand blades and all the other razor companies. They ship for free to your front doorstep and they have a fantastic starter set that can get you $15. For $15, you can get yourself a razor, moisturizing shave cream or firming shave gel and three razor blades. Brad, you are a fan and user of Harry's products, are you not?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So it's kind of ridiculous. I just placed another order Monday or Tuesday this week because my, I'm not the only one in my family that uses it. I bought one for my wife. She loves it. And now my daughter, unfortunately, is getting older. You know, I want the kids to stay young. She keeps stealing my wife's razor. So my wife came to me. She says, hey, can you order her a handle? So she stopped stealing mine. So I had to order my daughter a handle. So, yeah, we're a full Harry's family at this point. So it's pretty funny. And then I, of course, ordered me some more of the aftershave lotion, which is one of my favorite products in the world.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yep. I love the lotion. I love the foaming shave gel as well. That's my bag. You put this gel in your hand, you rub it in your hands, and it turns into an incredible amount of foam. It's kind of magical.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I love the science. I'm a shave cream guy.

'''Myke Hurley:''' There you go. They got it for everybody at Harry's, you know. Yep. Whole family. Cater the whole family. You can experience a clean, close, comfortable shave with Harry's. Go to harrys.com, and you will get $5 off if you use the coupon code PENADDICT with your first purchase. That's H-A-R-R-Y-S.com. Use the code PENADDICT to check out, and you'll get $5 off. And start shaving better today. Thank you so much to Harry's for their support of this show and all of RelayFM. It's worth noting, Harry's are a U.S. company. I believe that they also ship to Canada, but they are U.S. and Canada only at the moment. Gotcha. Very nice. I'm upset when I forget to mention that. Ah, yeah. I understand. Trust me. I understand, too. It's good stuff.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, it's great stuff. I want everyone to get that in their hands, because I love it. I think it's great. All right, so are we going to talk about what we're giving away, and then we'll announce the winners? Is that what you said?

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah. Yeah, let's do that. Let's talk about it. So me, Anna, and Brad, we spent some time on the PEN show. Basically, we walked to the Anderson PENs table. We took a look at what they had, and we decided we divided up an amount of money. So we all had a certain amount of money, and we bought what we could with the cash that we had. So we have three different packages. So Anna's package was a, is it Wall Eversharp?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Wall Eversharp.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Wall Eversharp Skyliner 50 Menthol Green with matching die-cast 1957 Corvette. Not like it's a model. It's not an actual car. Plus one bottle of the new formulation of J. Unbon Ocean Blue. Now, this pen is incredible. It's awesome. I think Anna actually bought one for herself as well.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' When she found that and showed it to us, we went, oh my god, that is so you. And you totally have to give that for the giveaway because that pen could not be created more for Anna if she designed it herself, I think. And then when the Anderson said, wait a second, look at the box it comes in, and it has this matching little Corvette in there, like a Hot Wheels Corvette, you know, a little bit bigger than that. We're like, oh my god, this is great. We both fell over when we saw that. It's super cool.

'''Myke Hurley:''' It's just fantastic. The color is amazing. Really, really great. And then obviously the beloved J. Unbon. This is the blue, which has the gold in as well, right?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. So the original formulas, formalizations of the J. Unbon 1670 inks were standard, I guess you will. They were kind of heavy, heavily saturated. It had some sheen on them. But now they've taken their red, blue, with the success of the Stormy Gray with the gold flecks in it, they have added that to the red and the blue. So any new 1670 blue ink, the Ocean Blue and the Rouge Hematite now contain the gold flecks. And that's what this Ocean Blue bottle is. It's one of the new bottles with the fancy bits in it.

'''Myke Hurley:''' So that's one package. Do you want to say what you got?