Editing The Pen Addict 568/transcript (section)

== Discussion on materials and craftsmanship ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep, so let's talk about materials then. Yes. So this is a two-part question, maybe a little bit loaded question. What is your favorite material to make a fountain pen from? And then second, what is your customer's favorite material? Because I have a feeling those might be two separate things.

'''Frank:''' Yeah, that's true, that they are different, but both are hard to answer. To be honest, my favorite material is usually the one I don't know and I am just about to experience, so because I'm always on the hunt for something new. When I look to the ones I use on a regular basis, I really like working with brass. It's just so smooth to work with. I like the feel of copper, but I hate working copper. It makes long, very, very sharp curls, and you need oil, and it makes your tools dull and stuff, but when it's ready, it's special.

'''Frank:''' What surprised me is how good it is to work in gold. That is something you might ask later as well for what's coming next. There's nothing on my website about it yet. it might become my favorite material, not because of the value. Of course, it's the most valuable material, but it worked perfectly well on the lathe. It kept the threads like a charm.

'''Frank:''' Everything on working with gold was a pleasure, which I did not expect, because it took me three years to go to get the guts, to find the boldness to work on this precious material. Sure. And, of course, it would be good if that might become the best loved material of my custom. You wouldn't complain on that one. I wouldn't complain on that one, no.

'''Frank:''' And, of course, even though Elbwood, it's called Elbwood, I started with wood, and I love wood. It is a very complicated material to use it on whiting instrument. If you don't stabilize the wood, use epoxy or CA glue or something. If you want to keep the wood in a natural state, all you have as a chance is giving it the time it needs to dry to get the tension out of the wood because you have so thin pieces in the end. it is the material with the most natural touch and feel to it. I think it connects the most to an earthy feel or natural feeling. And I really do love ebonite. Is it called ebonite? How do you pronounce it?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, I mean, I say ebonite, but I think it's like, my pen is ebonite and silver hardware. That's a fun material. Yes.

'''Frank:''' Silver is very special to work with and because it is so, it's not even only precious, it is so, I don't know the right term, it can look so different. It can be very high polished, it can be matted, it can be brushed, it can be blackened. It's special.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, you and I, when I designed my pen, which I actually kind of want to talk to you about, just the design process in general, working with customers, that was the part where we went back and forth the most on, just the silver hardware and deciding what to do for that, the style, the look. How is it going to look today? How is it going to look in two years from now? Right? Like all those things are a consideration when you're working with precious metals, right? Yes. And how does it look today? It looks amazing. It gets better, right? It's one of those things that wears in and it just gets better with age, right? Like it doesn't, it takes on this patina and like the little bit of tarnish and it has these interesting variances in what's exposed versus what's capped and you can see like, you know, the threading on the cap, you know, you can see kind of more of the original silver color, but where I've gripped it and it's taking on its own personality there, which I love pins that do get worn with age, right? Like I don't, I use my pins, right? These, these pins are made to be used. I, I've, I've always said that and, you know, I'll carry this pin in my pocket. You know, it's a very nice, very expensive pin, but I don't buy things that I'm not going to use. I'm not going to set this up on a shelf. You make this pin for me to put in my pocket and take out and write, not to put in a display case and, and show it off, right? I mean, that's, that's the theory behind all the things that you make.

'''Frank:''' Yes. I do, I do have customers that, uh, just do it. They put it in their, uh, yeah, and that's okay too. Yeah. And their showcase. But I think every piece I make is allowed to be used and should be used. Yeah. I love that idea.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I love this conversation with you. I could sit here. We get, we could have a two, a two hour conversation. I want to wrap this next question because I think they might kind of relate and it's just a question about, uh, the description on your website and you, you can correct my pronunciation. Um, you have Elbwood and it says the, the, the Hansiatic pen maker. Is that a fair pronunciation? So I was like, I was doing my research trying to figure out what this, what this was. And I think there's an interesting, uh, background on that name. Can you tell me why that's an important, uh, kind of like subtext to the overall creativity of, of the website and of the products I should say?

'''Frank:''' Mm-hmm. Uh, Hamburg is a Hanseatic city. Uh, there are other cities in Germany and around the Baltic Sea that are Hanseatic cities. The Hanse, uh, in German was, uh, uh, traders, uh, what, what is it? It's not a company. It's a group, a group of tradesmen, a guild, a guild. Yeah. That is the English term. Um, they usually, those usually were towns close to waterways where they could ship their goods and they protected themselves from pirates. Mm-hmm. Uh, it derived in the medieval times, 1500, 1600, something like that. And they, this guild made up some rules to, to honor. So, and there are some sayings still relevant today. Um, when you make a deal, you shake your hands. You, you, you, you give yourself your hands and that is the deal. It's more important than what's written in the contract. You look into your eyes, give you your hands, uh, and, and you make an honest deal. Um, so honesty was, uh, transparency. So very, very old, uh, values, but very relevant today. And they were very proud. Um, they were very successful tradesmen. They're very rich. Some of those families became in the early days and they built huge buildings, especially in Hamburg. You guys would love it in America because you don't have, uh, buildings that old. Right. Exactly. You don't have a thousand year old buildings. Right. And, and when you come over here, you, you, you look at them and think, wow, what is that? It's all made of stone and so much wealth and stuff. And they contributed to the community by, for example, building, uh, a town hall or building concert houses or building churches or whatever. And, uh, because of this proudness and this pride, uh, they took, uh, some extra, what is it? Self-consciousness, uh, when it comes to politicians, to kings and queens, to monarchy and stuff, for example, in Hamburg, the town hall, there are steps to go upstairs. And there is, up today, the mayor of the town, uh, stands on top of the stairs. No matter how important the visitors are, they have to walk up the stairs. It was more important in times of monarchy because usually you go down to your knees when the king or the queen are arriving, but here they have to look up to you. And that is, those are just some nice, historical facts that I like that have some regional meaning, but actually they have some global meaning in them as well. Because you, you don't buy, uh, or you don't invest in one of my pieces if you don't believe in these values. Right.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. And, and then, and it's like, uh, it, all this came out when, like, you and I were making a pin, right? Like I decided to reach out to you. I saw a material I liked and we essentially worked out all of the details on a handshake agreement, right? In the front to manufacture this thing. And like, I had my, like, we didn't necessarily know each other, but I had my faith in, in you and what you're going to make. And you had your faith in me as a customer that, Hey, he's actually going to pay for this thing when we're done. but, um, but, but that's how our design process went. I was like, Hey, uh, Frank, this, this is what I want. How can we do this? And then we just have this one-to-one conversation and shake deal, um, talking about craftsmanship and making a beautiful product and it, it all works out perfectly. So I think that, that in my experience that really comes through in how you present, you know, elbowed online and the products that you make, it really, it kind of ties everything in together, right? Like it feels like one cohesive brand and product. And there's like this through line of the story and the design and the creativity and the craftsmanship that like I can see as an outsider, but that only comes from like the person behind the lathe, which is you to put all that together. So I, I, I find it very impressive. So, so.

'''Frank:''' Oh, thank you. Yeah. It was a lot of effort to, to, to sure, to get there. Sure. Um, but I realized this, this trust worthiness, what it has to do, it, uh, it works. I mean, it's a little crazy. I think I still sometimes don't, don't believe it when people from all over the world go to my online shop and buy two or even three pieces, pay, pay via PayPal. And my system tells them, well, I make one thing after the other. It might be four to six months until they get there. And they, they don't seem to mind. Uh, at first I, I thought it would never work, but, uh, I think because it's just the way it is. And I tell the way it is. And there's no show people trust and do it. And I'm happy to wait.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Exactly. Exactly. So I don't want to keep you too much longer. So I want to, I want to preface this next question and then maybe I'll get you out of here on this. I think about design a lot, whether it's any type of products, it doesn't have to be pins, stationery. And I was reading an interview, um, of yours where we were talking about the design and I've kind of alluded to earlier, like I, I hate saying that the, the designs are simple, but because they're not, they're extremely complex, but they, the appearances are such that where it's like a simple, you get the idea. Anyone can get the idea of what they see when they see an elbow pin. And one of the quotes you, you use, or one of the phrases you used in this interview was the path of reduction, um, in a design. And that really resonated with me because I always felt like my job, if I was ever designing a product is, I guess, kind of twofold. One, I had to, my design had to represent, um, the customer had to know what to do with the product when I provided it to them, right? I created in a way that they don't have questions about how to use a product. At the same time, I also put my stamp on it in that I believe in this design and it may not be for everybody, right? And there's this, this path, the way you described path of reduction. Can you elaborate on that idea a little bit? Because I think that's a good way to think about making things. Like, I've never wanted to make something for everybody, if that makes sense. And I think that path of reduction kind of falls into that category.

'''Frank:''' Yes, it does. The one advantage you have being a single person designing things is that you can rely on your own decisions. You don't rely on a marketing team or on a sales team who say, oh, it's not for the masses or it's not, not everybody likes it. So, so you can, if you find the guts to do it, put out a thing that's well thought out knowing not everybody will like exactly this piece. But others will love it because of these reasons. And those are the ones resonating to your design.

'''Frank:''' And reducing things, bringing, focusing on the most important part of a thing is always tough work. I mean, you work with your blogging, your podcasting. To come to the point, the essence of something is lots of work, preparation, thinking over and over. Can I leave this word out? How can I get the message out there? And so at first glance, it might look simple, but in reality, it was a whole lot of work. And my design idea was to find a form that gives stage to the materials I'm having now, I encounter now, or might encounter in the future. And sometimes, if you look at the whole world of pens, I mean, there are so many variables of pens out there. Sometimes I get the impression there is a material everybody likes and it's hyped, so it's used by the industry. And if you leave away the material and only look at the form, you get some disappointment pretty quick. Sure. So I was making lots of effort to put in the form so it can function with almost every material put out because that is a sign of quality for the form. Material can make a show. Enhance it. Enhance it, yes. But it can also make mistakes in the form disappear because the material itself is so nice. But form, you cannot make a mistake. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Very true.

'''Frank:''' And these are thousands of inches sometimes. And the funny thing is it took me so much time because some mistakes I made actually went into the final pen. I was making a mistake on the lathe, screaming because it was the last step of the pen. And I thought, no, no. And then I looked at it, wow, that's even better than before. And then this mistake, a thought to be a mistake, became a very important part of just a little sleek angle and it makes it more elegant. Nice. So reducing is hard work.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. It is. Unfortunately. That's the hardest. That's the hardest. That's the hardest part. Well, Frank, this has been amazing. Is there anything I want to give you opportunity if you want to, you know, I'll have all the links to your website and everything. Is there anything you want to share with anyone? I know you're always bringing in new materials. I love seeing all the work that you do. So I will definitely point everyone to the website to check everything out. Is there anything else you want to share with anyone?

'''Frank:''' I think one thing because it's the biggest adventure for me so far. I mentioned gold before. Yeah. I don't have it online yet. Okay. I will go to Dubai in fall, I think, to, I think there's a pen show. I'm not good at visiting pen shows. They have to be better than that, I thought. Yeah. There was just the Dutch pen show last weekend. I couldn't manage. That's on my bucket list. San Francisco, Washington, D.C., London. I want to be more outgoing next year. That's, I might come back to you asking for advice in the future where to go. But the golden part is very special. As I told you, it took me so much time to find the boldness to work with this very expensive material. My problem is I work out of solid material. Right. Not thin leaves. Right. And this one became, I think, the best one I ever made. All right.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Well, you have to share that with me so I can share that with others when it arrives. And maybe I can send

'''Frank:''' you a picture of that one and get an honest opinion back. All right. And I'm not saying that because it's so expensive. This will be the most expensive piece I've ever made. I had sleepless nights about that.

'''Frank:''' But it's hammer blown. I use a hammer and hammer on a piece, a lot of gold, and make a hammer blown pocket master out of 750, 18k rose gold. Wow. It just looks amazing.

'''Frank:''' And that would be something, if I find the time, I would like to send you a picture and maybe you give me an opinion on it or maybe you can share it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, this has been amazing. Again, I could talk design. You know, maybe I will have to get myself over to your area and come see the workshop that I am so much in love with and I obviously love the products and I really, really appreciate the time you spent with us today. And I look forward to the future of Elbwood and everything that you're going to make.

'''Frank:''' Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right. Well, that's a wrap. Thank you all for listening to this episode of the Pen Attic Podcast and we will be back next week with more fun pen stationery and amazing writing instrument talk. So thank you and we'll see you again next week. Thank you.

[[Category:Podcast Transcripts]]
[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]